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From: Mandan1727@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 01 Feb 2003 03:02:32 EST --part1_c9.2f6421de.2b6cd918_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beaverboy, cabin creek muzzleloading makes some nice guns and accouterments you might give them a try. They also have a catalog you can get for a price. Heres there website <A HREF="http://www.cabincreek.net/index.html">Cabin Creek Muzzleloading</A> About barrel twists usually the bigger the bore the straighter the twist, and smaller the bore the twist can be tighter...........but i'm not totally certain on this. For a .54 cal the twist can be 1:48" to a 1:70" range for round ball i'd chose 1:70" Sincerely, Daniel "Mandan" Duncan AMM#1727 Missouri Valley Party Missouri/Iowa Brigade --part1_c9.2f6421de.2b6cd918_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2> <BR> Beaverboy, cabin creek muzzleloading makes some nice guns and accouterments you might give them a try. They also have a catalog you can get for a price. Heres there website <A HREF="http://www.cabincreek.net/index.html">Cabin Creek Muzzleloading</A> <BR>About barrel twists usually the bigger the bore the straighter the twist, and smaller the bore the twist can be tighter...........but i'm not totally certain on this. For a .54 cal the twist can be 1:48" to a 1:70" range for round ball i'd chose 1:70" <BR> Sincerely, <BR> <BR>Daniel "Mandan" Duncan <BR>AMM#1727 <BR>Missouri Valley Party <BR>Missouri/Iowa Brigade</FONT></HTML> --part1_c9.2f6421de.2b6cd918_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 01 Feb 2003 06:27:10 -0700 (MST) >Daniel, That is what I'm hearing on twist as well. The bigger the bore the slower the twist. Chambers does have some nice kits and I will check out the Cabin Creek web page too. Thankyou, bb > Beaverboy, cabin creek muzzleloading makes some nice > guns and > accouterments you might give them a try. They also have a catalog you > can get for a price. Heres there website <A > HREF="http://www.cabincreek.net/index.html">Cabin Creek > Muzzleloading</A> About barrel twists usually the bigger the bore the > straighter the twist, and smaller the bore the twist can be > tighter...........but i'm not totally certain on this. For a .54 > cal the twist can be 1:48" to a 1:70" range for round ball i'd > chose 1:70" > > Sincerely, > > Daniel "Mandan" Duncan > AMM#1727 > Missouri Valley Party > Missouri/Iowa Brigade ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 01 Feb 2003 11:37:26 -0800 http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rndball.html If you would care to go to the above link you will come to a neat little math program that will calculate any number of items related to round balls including the minimum rate of twist for a particular round ball shot at a certain velocity. My opinion, but for a .54 even though you might get away with it I would not use a twist rate as slow as 1-48. I think you will get much better performance from rates starting at 1-56 and slower. 1-48 seems to be a rate of twist that T/C adopted with their first "Hawkens" to accommodate both round ball and conicals. It does both poorly compared to a barrel rifled for a particular projectile. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 02 Feb 2003 13:22:34 -0500 beaver boy they have good kits and furnish most of the other suppliers----IE track and golden age and mountain state --they also furnish all the parts and do what they call 95% inletting for a slight charge---if you have not built several guns then this will help and give you a finished gun in the shortest time---still some work required like breaching the barrel cutting sights and installing underlugs and drilling pins and screws. inletting is minimimal but will require some cleanup --- tell mr dick greenside i said hello and give you some good wood--- i buy a lot of wood from him---also danny caywood gets uncut blanks from him as well as others---he has good uncut wood blanks--- as far as the twist I like a faster twist than a 1-70-like a 1-66 is what i normally use and it has a accuracy load from 78 gr fffg to 120 gr fffg ao you see it is not real powser critical with the faster twist---a 1-48 on the other hand has a accuracy loak of 55gr fffg to about 88 gr of fffg and the slow twist of 1-70 seems to like 2f more than it likes 3f and powder charges are between 95gr ffg to 150 gr of ffg---personally i would go with the round bottom rifleings not the sq ones as it seems to not be as critical to the patch and ball combination and is easier to clean and easy to load hawk-- ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 01 Feb 2003 16:41:45 EST Mike, Gotta take exception to a couple of things. Remember, BeaverBoy is a poor mountaineer and price is probably a consideration. > I would really seriously suggest you buy one of the Chambers rifle kits. Top Quality....probably the best on the market and the price reflects it. Also, Chambers only supplies the parts. Lepley supplies the stock, and the barrel comes directly from Getz. This means you get your gun piecemeal from 3 different people who have varying production schedules. Sometimes getting a barrel from Getz takes months. > Pecatonica usually uses a softer grade of red maple. All of Dick's wood is selected by him from a local mill. Red maple don't grow in northern Illinois. Some of his lower grade wood is sapwood, which is softer, but it is all still sugar/hard maple. Also, some of it comes from trees removed from suburban settings and prairie. It has looser growth rings than that cut from dense wooded areas. He also offers a variety of grades of wood. You get what you pay for. He also uses Green Mountain barrels in straight configuration. He will inlet a gun for a swamped barrel if the customer wants. For the first timer, Pecatonica is the best way to go. > I would also suggest you buy: William buchele's book re- > creating the Penn. long rifle. It was co-authored by Shumway and Alexander as well. Alexander's new book, "The Gunsmith of Grenville Co." is a more complete and concise book. It's now the one to buy. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 03 Feb 2003 13:30:29 -0500 On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:41:45 EST ThisOldFox@aol.com writes: > > I would also suggest you buy: William buchele's book re- > > creating the Penn. long rifle. > > It was co-authored by Shumway and Alexander as well. Alexander's > new book, > "The Gunsmith of Grenville Co." is a more complete and concise book. > It's > now the one to buy. > > Dave Kanger it was my thoughts that you didnt like alexanders methods of doing things---I thank his book is a darn good primer for a new builder and even an old fox can learn new tricks--- to me he is a good writer and i liked his explination of sear and tumbler engagement and lock geometry---i have used the same type of gage he did for years and learned that trick from kieth knewbeyer---in the 60's makes it easy to stone a sear correctly and at the right angle hawk--- ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net> Subject: MtMan-List: twists Date: 02 Feb 2003 15:47:09 -0600 Capt'n Ye said, < <My opinion, but for a .54 even though you might get away with it I would not use a twist rate as slow as 1-48. I think you will get much better performance from rates starting at 1-56 and slower. 1-48 seems to be a rate of twist that T/C adopted with their first "Hawkens" to accommodate both round ball and conicals. It does both poorly compared to a barrel rifled for a particular projectile> And I agree with a bit of an exception. The Davis museum posts caliber, twist and other info with every rifle. The 1:48 seemed to be quite popular with most calibers 'back then'. There is an Arkansas gun maker, I shouldn't say his name, but it rhymes with 'caywood' who will argue until the end of time that 1:48 is the ideal all-around twist even for larger calibers. He has some very convincing (sounding) arguments, including results on the shooting range. I choose 1:72 for my .54 cal. Jaeger. Cheers, Frank Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twists Date: 02 Feb 2003 15:17:42 -0700 (MST) Frank, How do you like that 1-72" twist? Especially with a hot load? Can you keep tight groups with 100 grs of ff? What would be the maximum load 120 grains of ff? I want to be able to shoot the most powerful load I can that still shoots a tight group. What do you shoot out of it? And how does it shoot? BB > Capt'n > Ye said, > < > <My opinion, but for a .54 even though you might get away with it I > would not > use a twist rate as slow as 1-48. I think you will get much better > performance from rates starting at 1-56 and slower. 1-48 seems to be a > rate of twist that T/C adopted with their first "Hawkens" to > accommodate both round ball and conicals. It does both poorly compared > to a barrel rifled for a particular projectile> > And I agree with a bit of an exception. The Davis museum posts > caliber, > twist and other info with every rifle. The 1:48 seemed to be quite > popular with most calibers 'back then'. > There is an Arkansas gun maker, I shouldn't say his name, but it > rhymes > with 'caywood' who will argue until the end of time that 1:48 is the > ideal all-around twist even for larger calibers. He has some very > convincing (sounding) arguments, including results on the shooting > range. > I choose 1:72 for my .54 cal. Jaeger. > Cheers, Frank > > Frank G. Fusco > Mountain Home, AR > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ > http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twists Date: 02 Feb 2003 18:13:15 -0800 > I choose 1:72 for my .54 cal. Jaeger. > Cheers, Frank So you'll take exception to my offering and then go in the face of the "history" and the famous gun maker and choose a 1-72 twist for your .54?! <G> I give up. Well not really but.............really now! <G> YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twists Date: 02 Feb 2003 18:15:09 -0800 I want to be able to shoot the most powerful load I can that > still shoots a tight group. Beaver Boy, I know you didn't ask me, you asked Frank but I have to ask what are you trying to kill? And with what caliber? YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twists Date: 02 Feb 2003 21:59:53 -0700 (MST) Capt, That is an excellent webpage, thank you. I was given the advice from a friend of between a 1-72" to 1-80" inch twist for a .54. The calculator said, I believe, a twist minimum of 80. I was just curious as to how Frank's gun shoots with a 72" inch twist. I've heard you can't load up quicker twist barrels heavy and keep them on the paper. I always shoot the hottest load I can that are accurate. I've never loaded light for targets and never would. An old government trapper told me years ago,"Pick a gun and a load and stick with it! Then you always know where it will shoot." Well, he was talking about an -06 or .22-250 but the principle is the same. Didn't oldtimers shoot lighter loads as lead and powder was soooo expensive and precious? What will I hunt with it? Well, everything of course, and sometimes at long distances. We hunt in Griz country here too. I want to make sure that gun will kill me if I get charged. beaverboy >> I choose 1:72 for my .54 cal. Jaeger. >> Cheers, Frank > > So you'll take exception to my offering and then go in the face of the > "history" and the famous gun maker and choose a 1-72 twist for your > .54?! <G> > > I give up. > > > > Well not really but.............really now! <G> > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 03 Feb 2003 04:37:07 -0800 Hello the camp, I'm comin' in peaceful, askin' for help. I've written a novel about mountain men and the fur trade era. It is being published probably next Jan/Feb. Anyway, I was lying in bed thinking about it when I realized I didn't have anything in the story about how beaver pelts were cared for. I have the cleaning and stretching on willow hoops but what happens next. Did they tan them? Salt them down? They'd have to do something to preserve the skin......but what? I've been monitoring the forum for a while, but have never posted. I must say some of the disscussions are downright interesting. Gleaned a lot of good info from your posts and I thank you kindly. Thanks for any in-sight you can give on this topic. - Ben ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Texas Town Names...OFF TOPIC Date: 03 Feb 2003 10:09:52 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C2CB6C.646A9BD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two Texas towns that figure heavily in the shuttle debris investigation = are Nacogdoches and Palestine. Virtually all out of state reporters are = mispronouncing those towns' names. If you want to pronounce them like = the residents do try the following: Not "Pala-stine" but "Pala-steen" Not "Naka-dough-shus" but "Naka-DOUGH-chus" I realize this ain't a big deal, but I'm tired of big deals for a while. = I realize that millions heard the explosion but being one who did hear = it brings the whole disaster closer and more personal. I can't imagine = how those folks who are finding their homes littered with shuttle parts = (and body parts now) are going to be effected. It's the least we can do = to pronounce the names of their towns right.=20 God bless 'em. God bless us. Most of all, may God bless the crew and = their families. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C2CB6C.646A9BD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Two Texas towns that figure = heavily in=20 the shuttle debris investigation are Nacogdoches and Palestine. = Virtually=20 all out of state reporters are mispronouncing those towns' names. = If you=20 want to pronounce them like the residents do try the = following:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Not "Pala-stine" but=20 "Pala-steen"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Not "Naka-dough-shus" but=20 "Naka-DOUGH-chus"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>I realize this ain't a big = deal, but=20 I'm tired of big deals for a while. I realize that millions heard = the=20 explosion but being one who did hear it brings the whole disaster closer = and=20 more personal. I can't imagine how those folks who are finding = their homes=20 littered with shuttle parts (and body parts now) are going to be = effected. =20 It's the least we can do to pronounce the names of their towns right.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>God bless 'em. God = bless=20 us. Most of all, may God bless the crew and their = families.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C2CB6C.646A9BD0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 03 Feb 2003 09:08:48 -0800 Did they tan them? No time Ben. > Salt them down? No salt. They'd have to do something to preserve the > skin......but what? Just scrape off the fat and meat and air dry till the hide turns to rawhide. Other than bugs, the hide will last forever, likewise the fur (baring any bugs of course). YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 03 Feb 2003 13:33:57 EST --part1_57.178ea02c.2b701015_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben I would like to add a bit to what Capt. Lahti' told ya. After the hide were dry they were checked one more time to make sure all the grease (fat) was removed when fleshed. Then they are folded in half hire side in stacked with the folded side out alternating the hides so you have a flat on both side of the pile. Then the hides are pressed and tied in to a bail for transporting. Each bail was made to weigh about 80 lb. when completed or as close as you could get with the hides they had. When packing the hide on horse or mule it was important that you had two bails of equal weight to keep the load balanced on the pack animal. To press the hides into a tight bail was important, in the field this was done by weighting down the pile of furs with a mans body weight then tied, when the bail was getting close to being complete or to large for this to work well any more it would take more weight to compress a press would be made in the field using a log as fulcrum or lever to press the bail tight to cut down on the bulk of the bail. The bails were warped with a cover hide of some kind or what ever they had to protect it from rain or moisture beside bugs that was the other danger the hides had to be protected from. When camped in one spot for a given time the hide would be taken out of the bails and aired to make sure they stayed dried. Bails like this could be put in a cache and stored tell Rendezvous. Hope this helps ya Crazy Cyot As for what trappers ate have a look and my web site and read Mountaineer Survival Skills ya might get a little more insight to there diets then you have thought of. <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm">http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm</A> --part1_57.178ea02c.2b701015_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Ben <BR>I would like to add a bit to what Capt. Lahti' told ya. After the hide were dry they were checked one more time to make sure all the grease (fat) was removed when fleshed. Then they are folded in half hire side in stacked with the folded side out alternating the hides so you have a flat on both side of the pile. Then the hides are pressed and tied in to a bail for transporting. Each bail was made to weigh about 80 lb. when completed or as close as you could get with the hides they had. When packing the hide on horse or mule it was important that you had two bails of equal weight to keep the load balanced on the pack animal. To press the hides into a tight bail was important, in the field this was done by weighting down the pile of furs with a mans body weight then tied, when the bail was getting close to being complete or to large for this to work well any more it would take more weight to compress a press would be made in the field using a log as fulcrum or lever to press the bail tight to cut down on the bulk of the bail. The bails were warped with a cover hide of some kind or what ever they had to protect it from rain or moisture beside bugs that was the other danger the hides had to be protected from. When camped in one spot for a given time the hide would be taken out of the bails and aired to make sure they stayed dried. Bails like this could be put in a cache and stored tell Rendezvous. <BR>Hope this helps ya <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR>As for what trappers ate have a look and my web site and read <BR>Mountaineer Survival Skills ya might get a little more insight to there diets then you have thought of.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#336699" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm">http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm</A> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_57.178ea02c.2b701015_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 03 Feb 2003 15:44:58 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2CB9B.34CB3FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many Thanks to Capt.Lahti' and GazingCoyote. I appreciate the responses. I guess I'm not going to have to do = to much revision. I had the characters doing what was needed. I just = hadn't read anywhere exactly what and how the pelts were packed. I made = my bale's only fifty pounds (I'm lazy and the thought of loading and = eighty to hundred pound pack everymorning they were on the trail wore me = out thinking about it, especially if they'd been successful and had a = good catch.) I had my trappers catch and trade for around 1500 pelts = during the season, which I know is more than double the average trapping = expidition, but Hey, this is fiction :) Sometime's I think I was born a hundred years to late, but then on = the other hand... Again, many thanks Ben =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GazeingCyot@cs.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:33 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Ben=20 I would like to add a bit to what Capt. Lahti' told ya. After the hide = were dry they were checked one more time to make sure all the grease = (fat) was removed when fleshed. Then they are folded in half hire side = in stacked with the folded side out alternating the hides so you have a = flat on both side of the pile. Then the hides are pressed and tied in to = a bail for transporting. Each bail was made to weigh about 80 lb. when = completed or as close as you could get with the hides they had. When = packing the hide on horse or mule it was important that you had two = bails of equal weight to keep the load balanced on the pack animal. To = press the hides into a tight bail was important, in the field this was = done by weighting down the pile of furs with a mans body weight then = tied, when the bail was getting close to being complete or to large for = this to work well any more it would take more weight to compress a = press would be made in the field using a log as fulcrum or lever ! to = press the bail tight to cut down on the bulk of the bail. The bails were = warped with a cover hide of some kind or what ever they had to protect = it from rain or moisture beside bugs that was the other danger the hides = had to be protected from. When camped in one spot for a given time the = hide would be taken out of the bails and aired to make sure they stayed = dried. Bails like this could be put in a cache and stored tell = Rendezvous.=20 Hope this helps ya=20 Crazy Cyot=20 As for what trappers ate have a look and my web site and read =20 Mountaineer Survival Skills ya might get a little more insight to = there diets then you have thought of.=20 http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2CB9B.34CB3FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Many Thanks to Capt.Lahti' and=20 GazingCoyote.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I appreciate the=20 responses. I guess I'm not going to have to do to much = revision. I had the characters doing what was needed. I just = hadn't=20 read anywhere exactly what and how the pelts were packed. I made = my bale's=20 only fifty pounds (I'm lazy and the thought of loading and eighty to = hundred=20 pound pack everymorning they were on the trail wore me out thinking = about it,=20 especially if they'd been successful and had a good catch.) I had = my=20 trappers catch and trade for around 1500 pelts during the season, which = I know=20 is more than double the average trapping expidition, but Hey, this is=20 fiction :)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Sometime's I think I = was born a=20 hundred years to late, but then on the other hand...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Again, many thanks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DGazeingCyot@cs.com=20 href=3D"mailto:GazeingCyot@cs.com">GazeingCyot@cs.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 03, 2003 = 10:33=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = face=3DArial size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Ben <BR>I would like to add a bit to what Capt. = Lahti' told=20 ya. After the hide were dry they were checked one more time to make = sure all=20 the grease (fat) was removed when fleshed. Then they are folded in = half hire=20 side in stacked with the folded side out alternating the hides so you = have a=20 flat on both side of the pile. Then the hides are pressed and tied in = to a=20 bail for transporting. Each bail was made to weigh about 80 lb. when = completed=20 or as close as you could get with the hides they had. When packing the = hide on=20 horse or mule it was important that you had two bails of equal weight = to keep=20 the load balanced on the pack animal. To press the hides into a tight = bail was=20 important, in the field this was done by weighting down the pile of = furs with=20 a mans body weight then tied, when the bail was getting close to being = complete or to large for this to work well any more it would take more = weight=20 to compress a press would be made in the field using a log as = fulcrum or=20 lever ! to press the bail tight to cut down on the bulk of the bail. = The bails=20 were warped with a cover hide of some kind or what ever they had to = protect it=20 from rain or moisture beside bugs that was the other danger the hides = had to=20 be protected from. When camped in one spot for a given time the hide = would be=20 taken out of the bails and aired to make sure they stayed dried. Bails = like=20 this could be put in a cache and stored tell Rendezvous. <BR>Hope this = helps=20 ya <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR>As for what trappers ate have a look and my web = site and=20 read <BR>Mountaineer Survival Skills ya might get a = little more=20 insight to there diets then you have thought of.</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#336699 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF"> = <BR></FONT><FONT=20 lang=3D0 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><A = = href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm">http://members.tr= ipod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm</A>=20 <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2CB9B.34CB3FE0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 03 Feb 2003 21:33:25 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CBCB.E20B82C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben wrote: >Sometime's I think I was born a hundred years to late, but then on the = other hand... So your one of those who wanted to be here after all the fun was over = huh? 1900 would be pretty swivilized. Curious though does your book run the typical: didn't get along with = Dad; was always out shooting squirrel instead of in school; heads west = alone or with just a couple of others; da da da. Or have you ventured into more enjoyable waters. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CBCB.E20B82C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Sometime's I think I was born a = hundred years=20 to late, but then on the other hand...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So your one of those who wanted to be = here after=20 all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty = swivilized.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Curious though does your book run the=20 typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out shooting = squirrel=20 instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a couple of others; = da da=20 da.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or have you ventured into more = enjoyable=20 waters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CBCB.E20B82C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 04 Feb 2003 08:51:43 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2CC2A.A3EE6E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wynn, I hope I've journeyed into more enjoyable waters! =20 My main character moves West with his family when he was 12 years old, = in 1828. His father was going to settle in Missouri, but when they = reached St. Louis they ran into his uncle, a mountain man and trapper = that expounded on the land far to the west, and was persuaded to claim = some of it for himself. Four years after they'd homesteaded a valley on = the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians raided, massacering his family = except for his sister, who they stole and took with them. =20 The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the tradgedy and his = search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on the Green River = in search of his Uncle and has many an adventure. I hope I've written it so that those on this board will enjoy it (and = not made to many glaring errors). About the hundred years.....I was thinking a hundred years before I was = born....which would put me right in the middle of my story :-) 1837, = although my grandfather was still settling the country in 1900. Started = a small town in Southern Utah. Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:33 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Ben wrote: >Sometime's I think I was born a hundred years to late, but then on = the other hand... So your one of those who wanted to be here after all the fun was over = huh? 1900 would be pretty swivilized. Curious though does your book run the typical: didn't get along with = Dad; was always out shooting squirrel instead of in school; heads west = alone or with just a couple of others; da da da. Or have you ventured into more enjoyable waters. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2CC2A.A3EE6E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Wynn,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've journeyed into more = enjoyable=20 waters! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My main character moves West with = his family=20 when he was 12 years old, in 1828. His father was going to settle = in=20 Missouri, but when they reached St. Louis they ran into his uncle, = a=20 mountain man and trapper that expounded on the land far to the west, and = was=20 persuaded to claim some of it for himself. Four years after they'd = homesteaded a valley on the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians = raided<FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>, massacering his family except = for his=20 sister, who they stole and took with them. = </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the = tradgedy and=20 his search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on = the Green=20 River in search of his Uncle and has many an adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've written it so that those on = this board=20 will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring errors).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>About the hundred years.....I was = thinking a=20 hundred years before I was born....which would put me right in the = middle of my=20 story :-) 1837, although my grandfather was still = settling the=20 country in 1900. Started a small town in Southern = Utah.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dleona3@sourceoneinternet.com=20 href=3D"mailto:leona3@sourceoneinternet.com">Wynn & Gretchen = Ormond</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 03, 2003 = 8:33=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Sometime's I think I was born a = hundred years=20 to late, but then on the other hand...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So your one of those who wanted to be = here after=20 all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty = swivilized.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Curious though does your book run the = typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out shooting = squirrel=20 instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a couple of = others; da da=20 da.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or have you ventured into more = enjoyable=20 waters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C2CC2A.A3EE6E80-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" <ghickman9@attbi.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 04 Feb 2003 09:45:17 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C2CC32.20000AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Were there folks homesteading in the Unitahs in the 1830's? Had land been opened up under the homestead act allowed homesteading there or were they just moving in and setting up? Curious. Bead Shooter ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi Wynn, I hope I've journeyed into more enjoyable waters! My main character moves West with his family when he was 12 years old, in 1828. His father was going to settle in Missouri, but when they reached St. Louis they ran into his uncle, a mountain man and trapper that expounded on the land far to the west, and was persuaded to claim some of it for himself. Four years after they'd homesteaded a valley on the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians raided, massacering his family except for his sister, who they stole and took with them. The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the tradgedy and his search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on the Green River in search of his Uncle and has many an adventure. I hope I've written it so that those on this board will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring errors). About the hundred years.....I was thinking a hundred years before I was born....which would put me right in the middle of my story :-) 1837, although my grandfather was still settling the country in 1900. Started a small town in Southern Utah. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:33 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Ben wrote: >Sometime's I think I was born a hundred years to late, but then on the other hand... So your one of those who wanted to be here after all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty swivilized. Curious though does your book run the typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out shooting squirrel instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a couple of others; da da da. Or have you ventured into more enjoyable waters. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C2CC32.20000AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4728.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Were there folks homesteading in the = Unitahs in the=20 1830's? Had land been opened up under the homestead act allowed = homesteading=20 there or were they just moving in and setting up? Curious.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bead Shooter</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dbeb1@sisna.com href=3D"mailto:beb1@sisna.com">Ben</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 9:51=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Wynn,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've journeyed into more = enjoyable=20 waters! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My main character moves West = with his=20 family when he was 12 years old, in 1828. His father was going = to settle=20 in Missouri, but when they reached St. Louis they ran into his = uncle, a=20 mountain man and trapper that expounded on the land far to the west, = and was=20 persuaded to claim some of it for himself. Four years after = they'd=20 homesteaded a valley on the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians=20 raided<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>, massacering his = family=20 except for his sister, who they stole and took with them. =20 </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the = tradgedy and=20 his search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on = the=20 Green River in search of his Uncle and has many an = adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've written it so that those = on this=20 board will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring = errors).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>About the hundred years.....I was = thinking a=20 hundred years before I was born....which would put me right in the = middle of=20 my story :-) 1837, although my grandfather was still = settling the country in 1900. Started a small town in Southern=20 Utah.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dleona3@sourceoneinternet.com=20 href=3D"mailto:leona3@sourceoneinternet.com">Wynn & Gretchen = Ormond</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 03, = 2003 8:33=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Sometime's I think I was born a = hundred=20 years to late, but then on the other hand...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So your one of those who wanted to = be here=20 after all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty=20 swivilized.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Curious though does your book run = the=20 typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out shooting = squirrel=20 instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a couple of = others; da=20 da da.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or have you ventured into more = enjoyable=20 waters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C2CC32.20000AE0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 04 Feb 2003 10:33:57 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2CC38.EC29EA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gene, Who knows? I doubt they were homesteading in the sense that they got = government title to the land....seeing at the time the US didn't own = that part of the country..I just have them move in and settle on a = little valley. Who can really say what brave souls listened to the = mountain men rave about the rich soil that would raise beans as big as = melons and corn twenty feet high, the clear, icy mountain streams, the = timber and all that they needed, and not attempt to settle. This area = was being explored At least this was possible ... it may not have = happened...but was possible. =20 Good point though....my bad choice of words in my previous post. Thanks for responding, Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gene Hickman=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:45 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Were there folks homesteading in the Unitahs in the 1830's? Had land = been opened up under the homestead act allowed homesteading there or = were they just moving in and setting up? Curious. Bead Shooter ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ben=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi Wynn, I hope I've journeyed into more enjoyable waters! =20 My main character moves West with his family when he was 12 years = old, in 1828. His father was going to settle in Missouri, but when they = reached St. Louis they ran into his uncle, a mountain man and trapper = that expounded on the land far to the west, and was persuaded to claim = some of it for himself. Four years after they'd homesteaded a valley on = the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians raided, massacering his family = except for his sister, who they stole and took with them. =20 The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the tradgedy and = his search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on the Green = River in search of his Uncle and has many an adventure. I hope I've written it so that those on this board will enjoy it = (and not made to many glaring errors). About the hundred years.....I was thinking a hundred years before I = was born....which would put me right in the middle of my story :-) = 1837, although my grandfather was still settling the country in 1900. = Started a small town in Southern Utah. Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:33 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Ben wrote: >Sometime's I think I was born a hundred years to late, but then = on the other hand... So your one of those who wanted to be here after all the fun was = over huh? 1900 would be pretty swivilized. Curious though does your book run the typical: didn't get along = with Dad; was always out shooting squirrel instead of in school; heads = west alone or with just a couple of others; da da da. Or have you ventured into more enjoyable waters. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2CC38.EC29EA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Gene,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Who knows? I doubt they were = homesteading in=20 the sense that they got government title to the land....seeing at the = time the=20 US didn't own that part of the country..I just have them move in and = settle on a=20 little valley. Who can really say what brave souls listened to the = mountain men rave about the rich soil that would raise beans as big as = melons=20 and corn twenty feet high, the clear, icy mountain streams, the = timber and=20 all that they needed, and not attempt to settle. This area was = being=20 explored At least this was possible ... it may not have = happened...but was=20 possible. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good point though....my bad choice of = words in my=20 previous post.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for responding,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dghickman9@attbi.com = href=3D"mailto:ghickman9@attbi.com">Gene=20 Hickman</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 8:45=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Were there folks homesteading in the = Unitahs in=20 the 1830's? Had land been opened up under the homestead act allowed=20 homesteading there or were they just moving in and setting up?=20 Curious.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bead Shooter</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dbeb1@sisna.com href=3D"mailto:beb1@sisna.com">Ben</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 9:51=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Wynn,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've journeyed into more = enjoyable=20 waters! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My main character moves West = with his=20 family when he was 12 years old, in 1828. His father was going = to=20 settle in Missouri, but when they reached St. Louis they ran into = his=20 uncle, a mountain man and trapper that expounded on the land = far to=20 the west, and was persuaded to claim some of it for himself. = Four=20 years after they'd homesteaded a valley on the north slope of = the=20 Uintahs, Indians raided<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>, =20 massacering his family except for his sister, who they stole and = took with=20 them. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the = tradgedy=20 and his search for his sister. He travels to the = rendevous on=20 the Green River in search of his Uncle and has many an=20 adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've written it so that = those on this=20 board will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring = errors).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>About the hundred years.....I was = thinking a=20 hundred years before I was born....which would put me right in the = middle of=20 my story :-) 1837, although my grandfather was = still=20 settling the country in 1900. Started a small town in Southern = Utah.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dleona3@sourceoneinternet.com=20 href=3D"mailto:leona3@sourceoneinternet.com">Wynn & Gretchen = Ormond</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 03, = 2003 8:33=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: = Re: caring=20 for beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Sometime's I think I was born = a hundred=20 years to late, but then on the other hand...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So your one of those who wanted = to be here=20 after all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty=20 swivilized.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Curious though does your book run = the=20 typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out shooting = squirrel=20 instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a couple of = others; da=20 da da.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or have you ventured into more = enjoyable=20 waters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> = <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2CC38.EC29EA40-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 04 Feb 2003 12:33:42 EST > it was my thoughts that you didnt like alexanders methods of doing things. Nope, you have him confused with Dr. Sam. >I thank his book is a darn good primer for a new builder and > even an old fox can learn new tricks--- I agree. The one thing I found is that he wrote his book over several years and he contradicts himself in various places. He is also overly technical with his measurements and drawings. A new builder wouldn't necessarily need all this info, but Peter makes exact replicas of existing guns, so those measurements are important in his case. > to me he is a good writer and i liked his explination of sear and tumbler > engagement and lock geometry His is probably the first book out that really explains this. There are many other little tidbits that haven't been written in any previously published books, and for that I believe his book is the most comprehensive so far. In the past, you almost had to have every gunbuilding book available, because there was always something one author left out, that another author included in his book. A new builder will learn much from Alexander's book. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" <ghickman9@attbi.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 04 Feb 2003 10:41:53 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C2CC3A.0821D680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No apology Ben. My intent was to illustrate a perhaps poor choice of words by saying homesteading. Can't wait for the book. Good Luck. Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:33 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi Gene, Who knows? I doubt they were homesteading in the sense that they got government title to the land....seeing at the time the US didn't own that part of the country..I just have them move in and settle on a little valley. Who can really say what brave souls listened to the mountain men rave about the rich soil that would raise beans as big as melons and corn twenty feet high, the clear, icy mountain streams, the timber and all that they needed, and not attempt to settle. This area was being explored At least this was possible ... it may not have happened...but was possible. Good point though....my bad choice of words in my previous post. Thanks for responding, Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Hickman To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:45 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Were there folks homesteading in the Unitahs in the 1830's? Had land been opened up under the homestead act allowed homesteading there or were they just moving in and setting up? Curious. Bead Shooter ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi Wynn, I hope I've journeyed into more enjoyable waters! My main character moves West with his family when he was 12 years old, in 1828. His father was going to settle in Missouri, but when they reached St. Louis they ran into his uncle, a mountain man and trapper that expounded on the land far to the west, and was persuaded to claim some of it for himself. Four years after they'd homesteaded a valley on the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians raided, massacering his family except for his sister, who they stole and took with them. The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the tradgedy and his search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on the Green River in search of his Uncle and has many an adventure. I hope I've written it so that those on this board will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring errors). About the hundred years.....I was thinking a hundred years before I was born....which would put me right in the middle of my story :-) 1837, although my grandfather was still settling the country in 1900. Started a small town in Southern Utah. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:33 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Ben wrote: >Sometime's I think I was born a hundred years to late, but then on the other hand... So your one of those who wanted to be here after all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty swivilized. Curious though does your book run the typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out shooting squirrel instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a couple of others; da da da. Or have you ventured into more enjoyable waters. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C2CC3A.0821D680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4728.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No apology Ben. My intent was to = illustrate a=20 perhaps poor choice of words by saying homesteading. Can't wait for the = book.=20 Good Luck.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gene "Bead Shooter" = Hickman</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dbeb1@sisna.com href=3D"mailto:beb1@sisna.com">Ben</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 11:33=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Gene,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Who knows? I doubt they were = homesteading=20 in the sense that they got government title to the land....seeing at = the time=20 the US didn't own that part of the country..I just have them move in = and=20 settle on a little valley. Who can really say what brave souls = listened=20 to the mountain men rave about the rich soil that would raise beans as = big as=20 melons and corn twenty feet high, the clear, icy mountain = streams, the=20 timber and all that they needed, and not attempt to settle. This = area=20 was being explored At least this was possible ... it may not = have=20 happened...but was possible. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good point though....my bad choice of = words in my=20 previous post.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for responding,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dghickman9@attbi.com = href=3D"mailto:ghickman9@attbi.com">Gene=20 Hickman</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 8:45=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Were there folks homesteading in = the Unitahs in=20 the 1830's? Had land been opened up under the homestead act allowed=20 homesteading there or were they just moving in and setting up?=20 Curious.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bead Shooter</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dbeb1@sisna.com href=3D"mailto:beb1@sisna.com">Ben</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 9:51=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: = Re: caring=20 for beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Wynn,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've journeyed into more = enjoyable=20 waters! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My main character moves = West with his=20 family when he was 12 years old, in 1828. His father was = going to=20 settle in Missouri, but when they reached St. Louis they ran into = his=20 uncle, a mountain man and trapper that expounded on the land = far to=20 the west, and was persuaded to claim some of it for himself. = Four=20 years after they'd homesteaded a valley on the north slope of = the=20 Uintahs, Indians raided<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>, =20 massacering his family except for his sister, who they stole and = took with=20 them. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the = tradgedy=20 and his search for his sister. He travels to the = rendevous on=20 the Green River in search of his Uncle and has many an=20 adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've written it so that = those on this=20 board will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring = errors).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>About the hundred years.....I was = thinking a=20 hundred years before I was born....which would put me right in the = middle=20 of my story :-) 1837, although my grandfather = was still=20 settling the country in 1900. Started a small town in = Southern=20 Utah.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dleona3@sourceoneinternet.com=20 href=3D"mailto:leona3@sourceoneinternet.com">Wynn & Gretchen = Ormond</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February = 03, 2003=20 8:33 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: = Re: caring=20 for beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Sometime's I think I was = born a hundred=20 years to late, but then on the other hand...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So your one of those who wanted = to be here=20 after all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty=20 swivilized.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Curious though does your book = run the=20 typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out = shooting=20 squirrel instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a = couple of=20 others; da da da.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or have you ventured into more = enjoyable=20 waters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> = <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BO= DY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C2CC3A.0821D680-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" <glenn@leaklocationservices.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Fiction Date: 04 Feb 2003 11:52:26 -0600 IMHO, a family homesteading a valley on the north slope of the Uintas, in 1828 - 1832 were either uncommonly lucky, or remarkably tough to have kept their hair for that long. I would have had them robbed and scalped before the first snowfall. But that story would be a very short novel. The Whitman's kept their mission in present-day Washington going from 1836 to 1847 before they were massacered. Other missionaries branched out from there also. But they went west as invited guests because the natives wanted their religion. (Actually they wanted their technology, but their language had no word for such). And traders fared well in that time period, but I think they lived mostly in forts. Is there any other documentation of homesteaders surviving that far West before 1832 or for that matter, 1841? Glenn Darilek Iron Burner >My main character moves West with his family when he was 12 years old, in >1828. His father was going to settle in Missouri, but when they reached >St. Louis they ran into his uncle, a mountain man and trapper that >expounded on the land far to the west, and was persuaded to claim some of >it for himself. Four years after they'd homesteaded a valley on the north >slope of the Uintahs, Indians raided, massacering his family except for >his sister, who they stole and took with them. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net> Subject: MtMan-List: twists Date: 04 Feb 2003 13:12:10 -0600 Capt'n Lahti said of my comments, <So you'll take exception to my offering and then go in the face of the "history" and the famous gun maker and choose a 1-72 twist for your .54?!> Good question, even with the grin. And it begs a response. "famous" don't make him right and I have never agreed completely with him, or his dad on this subject. I choose the slow twist because I concluded from 30 years of observation, input from others whom I respect and my own experience with rifles I have owned and used, that is what is best for my needs, and, admittedly, my wants. Yes, I believe history shows that many rifles of many calibers over a period of many years were in the majority 1:48" twists. Now, my theory why. Folks 'back then' did not have much to spare. Lead was a hard come by commodity, whenever possible balls were recovered, whether from downed game, dead enemies, or a board target. Powder was also a precious commodity. If a light charge was sufficient for 90% of their shooting then that is what was used and rifles were built for best performance with those light to moderate charges. The occasional call for heavy charges may have suffered in tack-driving accuracy but that was an acceptable concession. For this particular gun 1:72" is, for me, the best choice. Another gun for another purpose might end up with something else. Cheers, Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man book Date: 04 Feb 2003 13:23:10 -0600 Ben said, <I've written a novel about mountain men and the fur trade era.> Ben, wats yer last name or pen name? What is the book title? Let us know when it hits the shelves. We have been needing a real writer on this list. <G> Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Branson <d49_mbranson@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 04 Feb 2003 11:26:47 -0800 (PST) --0-1838409257-1044386807=:11261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii After 30 years of shooting flintlocks I have to agree with Mr. Fusco. I too like a slow twist for .54 cal. I recently started shooting an Ed Rayle barrel with round bottom roove rifleing in .54 with a 1/70 twist. It shoots better than any gun I own and I'm shooting 90 grain loads. ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote:> it was my thoughts that you didnt like alexanders methods of doing things. Nope, you have him confused with Dr. Sam. >I thank his book is a darn good primer for a new builder and > even an old fox can learn new tricks--- I agree. The one thing I found is that he wrote his book over several years and he contradicts himself in various places. He is also overly technical with his measurements and drawings. A new builder wouldn't necessarily need all this info, but Peter makes exact replicas of existing guns, so those measurements are important in his case. > to me he is a good writer and i liked his explination of sear and tumbler > engagement and lock geometry His is probably the first book out that really explains this. There are many other little tidbits that haven't been written in any previously published books, and for that I believe his book is the most comprehensive so far. In the past, you almost had to have every gunbuilding book available, because there was always something one author left out, that another author included in his book. A new builder will learn much from Alexander's book. Dave Kanger ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now --0-1838409257-1044386807=:11261 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <P>After 30 years of shooting flintlocks I have to agree with Mr. Fusco. I too like a slow twist for .54 cal. I recently started shooting an Ed Rayle barrel with round bottom roove rifleing in .54 with a 1/70 twist. It shoots better than any gun I own and I'm shooting 90 grain loads. <P> <B><I>ThisOldFox@aol.com</I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">> it was my thoughts that you didnt like alexanders methods of doing things.<BR><BR>Nope, you have him confused with Dr. Sam.<BR><BR>>I thank his book is a darn good primer for a new builder and<BR>> even an old fox can learn new tricks---<BR><BR>I agree. The one thing I found is that he wrote his book over several years <BR>and he contradicts himself in various places. He is also overly technical <BR>with his measurements and drawings. A new builder wouldn't necessarily need <BR>all this info, but Peter makes exact replicas of existing guns, so those <BR>measurements are important in his case.<BR><BR>> to me he is a good writer and i liked his explination of sear and tumbler<BR>> engagement and lock geometry<BR><BR>His is probably the first book out that really explains this. There are many <BR>other little tidbits that haven't been written in any previously published <BR>books, and for that I believe his book is the most comprehensive so far. In <BR>the past, you almost had to have every gunbuilding book available, because <BR>there was always something one author left out, that another author included <BR>in his book. A new builder will learn much from Alexander's book.<BR><BR>Dave Kanger<BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Mail Plus</a> - Powerful. Affordable. <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign up now</a> --0-1838409257-1044386807=:11261-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man book Date: 04 Feb 2003 14:14:40 -0800 Hi Frank, LOL Frank. I don't know about "a real writer", I'm just an old man that loves the mountains and history, especially the fur trade era. Wouldn't you have just loved to see these mountains before they were crawlin' with people? There are still a few places that make you feel you're the first to have seen it, but they're getting few and far between. Now seems like every ridge you crest has a road on top of it or one in the bottom of the canyon. My full name is Bennett H. Bracken, and I live in what used to a fairly small town about 30 miles south of Salt Lake City. The name of the novel is Chase the Wind, if the publishers don't change it for some reason, and it'll be out the first quarter of 2003 (I hope). ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:23 AM > Ben said, > <I've written a novel about mountain men and the fur trade era.> > Ben, wats yer last name or pen name? What is the book title? > Let us know when it hits the shelves. > We have been needing a real writer on this list. <G> > Frank G. Fusco > Mountain Home, AR > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ > http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 04 Feb 2003 14:50:57 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2CC5C.D31AC640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben wrote: I hope I've written it so that those on this board will enjoy it (and = not made to many glaring errors). Keep us posted as it progresses. Wynn ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2CC5C.D31AC640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've written it so that those on = this board=20 will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring errors).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Keep us posted as it = progresses.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2CC5C.D31AC640-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man book Date: 04 Feb 2003 15:08:46 -0700 Ben It may not have been beyond belief for a family to have moved that far west that early on, that is if they were Iroquios or some other Eastern Indian family. I believe that for "whites" that is of course is a pretty big gamble. still it is a novel and you as the author are entitled to make whatever gambles you chose. Wynn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Ben's book Date: 04 Feb 2003 16:58:18 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C2CC6E.9DF4A500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben By golly, write your novel any way you want and let the chips fall where = they may. A lady who used to be on this list wrote a novel a few years = back involving the 1838 rendezvous & mountain men and a woman from = today who went there and met them. The general theme of the book was a = romance novel with a science-fiction/fantasy/time travel twist set in = 1838 AND 2002. Makes homesteading in the Unitas in the 1830's seem = pretty dang plausible when you compare the story lines. Laura made the = book readable and believable (enough) not by proving that time travel = is possible and that a widowed school teacher from Emory University = could actually meet Osborne Russell in the Wind River Range but by = skillful wordsmithing and paying attention to as many minor details as = she could. She wove the story out of the yarn in her head but she made = sure that names, places and dates lined up historically, that a = particular river ran in the direction she said it did, that long dead = mountaineers didn't get reincarnated 20 years after they actually died, = that Narcissa Whitman was a blond, etc. She paid close attention to as = many details as she could figuring that little errors would chip away at = the plausibility she was striving for. Look on Amazon.com for the novel = "Across the Seasons" by Laura Jean Glise. Laura can't speak for herself = anymore because she went under on Feb 16, 2002, killed by a brain tumor = at age 52. She would certainly tell you to proceed with all possible = speed while exercising due diligence to make the book believable and = entertaining. Laura was my good friend and I think of her when the wind blows.... Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C2CC6E.9DF4A500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>By golly, write your novel = any way you=20 want and let the chips fall where they may. A lady who used to be = on this=20 list wrote a novel a few years back involving the 1838=20 rendezvous & mountain men and a woman from today who = went=20 there and met them. The general theme of the book was a = romance=20 novel with a science-fiction/fantasy/time travel twist set in = 1838 AND=20 2002. Makes homesteading in the Unitas in the 1830's seem pretty = dang=20 plausible when you compare the story lines. Laura made the = book =20 readable and believable (enough) not by proving that time travel is = possible and that a widowed school teacher from Emory University = could=20 actually meet Osborne Russell in the Wind River Range but by = skillful=20 wordsmithing and paying attention to as many minor details as she = could. =20 She wove the story out of the yarn in her head but she made sure that = names,=20 places and dates lined up historically, that a particular river ran in = the=20 direction she said it did, that long dead mountaineers didn't get = reincarnated=20 20 years after they actually died, that Narcissa Whitman was a blond, = etc. =20 She paid close attention to as many details as she could figuring that = little=20 errors would chip away at the plausibility she was striving for. = Look on=20 Amazon.com for the novel "Across the Seasons" by Laura Jean Glise. = Laura=20 can't speak for herself anymore because she went under on Feb 16, 2002, = killed=20 by a brain tumor at age 52. She would certainly tell you to = proceed with=20 all possible speed while exercising due diligence to make the book = believable=20 and entertaining.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Laura was my good friend = and I think of=20 her when the wind blows....</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C2CC6E.9DF4A500-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ben's book Date: 04 Feb 2003 17:27:52 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2CC72.BF01CEE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Lanney, I wish I could have met Laura Jean. Sounds like my kind of people. She = did exactly what I'm trying to do. I've read extensively in trapper's = and mountain men's journals searching for little unusual thing I can = work into the story, like the "white clay" at a spot along the Snake = River that the Indians and Mt. Men used for soap. I'm hoping the only = historical discrepancy is the early date of settlers. Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: History List=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:58 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Ben's book Ben By golly, write your novel any way you want and let the chips fall = where they may. A lady who used to be on this list wrote a novel a few = years back involving the 1838 rendezvous & mountain men and a woman = from today who went there and met them. The general theme of the book = was a romance novel with a science-fiction/fantasy/time travel twist set = in 1838 AND 2002. Makes homesteading in the Unitas in the 1830's seem = pretty dang plausible when you compare the story lines. Laura made the = book readable and believable (enough) not by proving that time travel = is possible and that a widowed school teacher from Emory University = could actually meet Osborne Russell in the Wind River Range but by = skillful wordsmithing and paying attention to as many minor details as = she could. She wove the story out of the yarn in her head but she made = sure that names, places and dates lined up historically, that a = particular river ran in the direction she said it did, that long dead = mountaineers didn't get reincarnated 20 years after they actually died, = that Narcissa Whitman was a blond, etc. She paid close attention to as = many details as she could figuring that little errors would chip away at = the plausibility she was striving for. Look on Amazon.com for the novel = "Across the Seasons" by Laura Jean Glise. Laura can't speak for herself = anymore because she went under on Feb 16, 2002, killed by a brain tumor = at age 52. She would certainly tell you to proceed with all possible = speed while exercising due diligence to make the book believable and = entertaining. Laura was my good friend and I think of her when the wind blows.... Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2CC72.BF01CEE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks Lanney,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wish I could have met Laura = Jean. Sounds=20 like my kind of people. She did exactly what I'm trying to = do. I've=20 read extensively in trapper's and mountain men's journals searching for = little=20 unusual thing I can work into the story, like the "white clay" at a spot = along=20 the Snake River that the Indians and Mt. Men used for soap. = I'm=20 hoping the only historical discrepancy is the early date of=20 settlers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com=20 href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">History List</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 2:58=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Ben's = book</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>By golly, write your = novel any way=20 you want and let the chips fall where they may. A lady who used = to be on=20 this list wrote a novel a few years back involving the 1838=20 rendezvous & mountain men and a woman from today = who went=20 there and met them. The general theme of the book was a = romance=20 novel with a science-fiction/fantasy/time travel twist set = in 1838=20 AND 2002. Makes homesteading in the Unitas in the 1830's seem = pretty=20 dang plausible when you compare the story lines. Laura made = the=20 book readable and believable (enough) not by proving that = time=20 travel is possible and that a widowed school teacher from Emory=20 University could actually meet Osborne Russell in the Wind River = Range=20 but by skillful wordsmithing and paying attention to as many minor = details as=20 she could. She wove the story out of the yarn in her head but = she made=20 sure that names, places and dates lined up historically, that a = particular=20 river ran in the direction she said it did, that long dead = mountaineers didn't=20 get reincarnated 20 years after they actually died, that Narcissa = Whitman was=20 a blond, etc. She paid close attention to as many details as she = could=20 figuring that little errors would chip away at the plausibility she = was=20 striving for. Look on Amazon.com for the novel "Across the = Seasons" by=20 Laura Jean Glise. Laura can't speak for herself anymore because = she went=20 under on Feb 16, 2002, killed by a brain tumor at age 52. She = would=20 certainly tell you to proceed with all possible speed while exercising = due=20 diligence to make the book believable and entertaining.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Laura was my good friend = and I think=20 of her when the wind blows....</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2CC72.BF01CEE0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" <jlallen@wyoming.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 04 Feb 2003 18:15:58 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2CC79.77311650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Ben, I'll look forward to reading your book. But for the sake of historical = accuracy, the Homestead Act did not come about until 1862--quite some = time after your characters "homesteaded a valley on the north slope of = the Uintahs." At that point in time, there was no way to legally claim = land that far west as it was not yet part of the rectangular survey = system. If it's not too late, you might want to replace the term = "homesteaded" with "settled" or even "squatted" (referring to the taking = of land without legal title--a standard practice on the American = frontier). John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ben=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi Wynn, I hope I've journeyed into more enjoyable waters! =20 My main character moves West with his family when he was 12 years = old, in 1828. His father was going to settle in Missouri, but when they = reached St. Louis they ran into his uncle, a mountain man and trapper = that expounded on the land far to the west, and was persuaded to claim = some of it for himself. Four years after they'd homesteaded a valley on = the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians raided, massacering his family = except for his sister, who they stole and took with them. =20 The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the tradgedy and = his search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on the Green = River in search of his Uncle and has many an adventure. I hope I've written it so that those on this board will enjoy it (and = not made to many glaring errors). About the hundred years.....I was thinking a hundred years before I = was born....which would put me right in the middle of my story :-) = 1837, although my grandfather was still settling the country in 1900. = Started a small town in Southern Utah. Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:33 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Ben wrote: >Sometime's I think I was born a hundred years to late, but then on = the other hand... So your one of those who wanted to be here after all the fun was = over huh? 1900 would be pretty swivilized. Curious though does your book run the typical: didn't get along = with Dad; was always out shooting squirrel instead of in school; heads = west alone or with just a couple of others; da da da. Or have you ventured into more enjoyable waters. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2CC79.77311650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, Ben,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll look forward to reading your book. = But for the=20 sake of historical accuracy, the Homestead Act did not come about until=20 1862--quite some time after your characters "homesteaded a valley on the = north=20 slope of the Uintahs." At that point in time, there was no way to = legally claim=20 land that far west as it was not yet part of the rectangular survey = system. If=20 it's not too late, you might want to replace the term "homesteaded" with = "settled" or even "squatted" (referring to the taking of land without = legal=20 title--a standard practice on the American frontier).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Dr. John L. Allen<BR>2703 Leslie Court<BR>Laramie, WY = 82072-2979<BR>Phone:=20 (307) 742-0883<BR>e-mail: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">jlallen@wyoming.com</A><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dbeb1@sisna.com href=3D"mailto:beb1@sisna.com">Ben</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 9:51=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Wynn,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've journeyed into more = enjoyable=20 waters! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My main character moves West = with his=20 family when he was 12 years old, in 1828. His father was going = to settle=20 in Missouri, but when they reached St. Louis they ran into his = uncle, a=20 mountain man and trapper that expounded on the land far to the west, = and was=20 persuaded to claim some of it for himself. Four years after = they'd=20 homesteaded a valley on the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians=20 raided<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>, massacering his = family=20 except for his sister, who they stole and took with them. =20 </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the = tradgedy and=20 his search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on = the=20 Green River in search of his Uncle and has many an = adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've written it so that those = on this=20 board will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring = errors).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>About the hundred years.....I was = thinking a=20 hundred years before I was born....which would put me right in the = middle of=20 my story :-) 1837, although my grandfather was still = settling the country in 1900. Started a small town in Southern=20 Utah.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dleona3@sourceoneinternet.com=20 href=3D"mailto:leona3@sourceoneinternet.com">Wynn & Gretchen = Ormond</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 03, = 2003 8:33=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Sometime's I think I was born a = hundred=20 years to late, but then on the other hand...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So your one of those who wanted to = be here=20 after all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty=20 swivilized.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Curious though does your book run = the=20 typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out shooting = squirrel=20 instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a couple of = others; da=20 da da.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or have you ventured into more = enjoyable=20 waters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C2CC79.77311650-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 04 Feb 2003 18:49:51 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2CC7E.32F11080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dr. John, The term homesteading is not in the book. I erroniously put it in one = of my first emails as I explained my story. The area that the family = settled on was not even owned by the US at the time. The Louisiana = purchase did not include The north slope of the Uintahs. Several of the board members have "chastised" me for making that = mistake in the email. I stand corrected :-) Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John L. Allen=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:15 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi, Ben, I'll look forward to reading your book. But for the sake of historical = accuracy, the Homestead Act did not come about until 1862--quite some = time after your characters "homesteaded a valley on the north slope of = the Uintahs." At that point in time, there was no way to legally claim = land that far west as it was not yet part of the rectangular survey = system. If it's not too late, you might want to replace the term = "homesteaded" with "settled" or even "squatted" (referring to the taking = of land without legal title--a standard practice on the American = frontier). John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ben=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi Wynn, I hope I've journeyed into more enjoyable waters! =20 My main character moves West with his family when he was 12 years = old, in 1828. His father was going to settle in Missouri, but when they = reached St. Louis they ran into his uncle, a mountain man and trapper = that expounded on the land far to the west, and was persuaded to claim = some of it for himself. Four years after they'd homesteaded a valley on = the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians raided, massacering his family = except for his sister, who they stole and took with them. =20 The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the tradgedy and = his search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on the Green = River in search of his Uncle and has many an adventure. I hope I've written it so that those on this board will enjoy it = (and not made to many glaring errors). About the hundred years.....I was thinking a hundred years before I = was born....which would put me right in the middle of my story :-) = 1837, although my grandfather was still settling the country in 1900. = Started a small town in Southern Utah. Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:33 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Ben wrote: >Sometime's I think I was born a hundred years to late, but then = on the other hand... So your one of those who wanted to be here after all the fun was = over huh? 1900 would be pretty swivilized. Curious though does your book run the typical: didn't get along = with Dad; was always out shooting squirrel instead of in school; heads = west alone or with just a couple of others; da da da. Or have you ventured into more enjoyable waters. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2CC7E.32F11080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Dr. John,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The term homesteading is not in the = book. I=20 erroniously put it in one of my first emails as I explained my = story. The=20 area that the family settled on was not even owned by the US at the = time. =20 The Louisiana purchase did not include The north slope of the=20 Uintahs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Several of the board = members=20 have "chastised" me for making that mistake in the email.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I stand corrected=20 :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Djlallen@wyoming.com = href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">John L.=20 Allen</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 5:15=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, Ben,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll look forward to reading your = book. But for=20 the sake of historical accuracy, the Homestead Act did not come about = until=20 1862--quite some time after your characters "homesteaded a valley on = the north=20 slope of the Uintahs." At that point in time, there was no way to = legally=20 claim land that far west as it was not yet part of the rectangular = survey=20 system. If it's not too late, you might want to replace the term = "homesteaded"=20 with "settled" or even "squatted" (referring to the taking of land = without=20 legal title--a standard practice on the American = frontier).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Dr. John L. Allen<BR>2703 Leslie Court<BR>Laramie, WY=20 82072-2979<BR>Phone: (307) 742-0883<BR>e-mail: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">jlallen@wyoming.com</A><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dbeb1@sisna.com href=3D"mailto:beb1@sisna.com">Ben</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 9:51=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Wynn,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've journeyed into more = enjoyable=20 waters! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My main character moves West = with his=20 family when he was 12 years old, in 1828. His father was going = to=20 settle in Missouri, but when they reached St. Louis they ran into = his=20 uncle, a mountain man and trapper that expounded on the land = far to=20 the west, and was persuaded to claim some of it for himself. = Four=20 years after they'd homesteaded a valley on the north slope of = the=20 Uintahs, Indians raided<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>, =20 massacering his family except for his sister, who they stole and = took with=20 them. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the = tradgedy=20 and his search for his sister. He travels to the = rendevous on=20 the Green River in search of his Uncle and has many an=20 adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've written it so that = those on this=20 board will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring = errors).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>About the hundred years.....I was = thinking a=20 hundred years before I was born....which would put me right in the = middle of=20 my story :-) 1837, although my grandfather was = still=20 settling the country in 1900. Started a small town in Southern = Utah.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dleona3@sourceoneinternet.com=20 href=3D"mailto:leona3@sourceoneinternet.com">Wynn & Gretchen = Ormond</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 03, = 2003 8:33=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: = Re: caring=20 for beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Sometime's I think I was born = a hundred=20 years to late, but then on the other hand...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So your one of those who wanted = to be here=20 after all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty=20 swivilized.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Curious though does your book run = the=20 typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out shooting = squirrel=20 instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a couple of = others; da=20 da da.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or have you ventured into more = enjoyable=20 waters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> = <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2CC7E.32F11080-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ben's book Date: 04 Feb 2003 19:53:03 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2CC87.074181A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben wrote: I wish I could have met Laura Jean.=20 Ben, Click here for a thumbnail sketch of Laura Jeana and her book.. Lanney http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=3D732&161221004-31774aaa ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2CC87.074181A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><FONT face=3DArial=20 size=3D2> </FONT>Ben wrote: <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wish I = could have met=20 Laura Jean. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ben,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Click here for a thumbnail sketch of Laura Jeana and = her=20 book..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><A=20 href=3D"http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=3D732&161221004-= 31774aaa">http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=3D732&16122100= 4-31774aaa</A></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D4><BR></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2CC87.074181A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ben's book Date: 04 Feb 2003 19:16:09 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2CC81.DF792060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the link Lanney. I'm afraid I'm going to have to purchase = that book. Afraid cause my wife's going to kill me :-) She was a beautiful woman . . . and probably as nice as she is pretty. Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:53 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ben's book Ben wrote: I wish I could have met Laura Jean.=20 Ben, Click here for a thumbnail sketch of Laura Jeana and her book.. Lanney http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=3D732&161221004-31774aaa =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2CC81.DF792060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for the link Lanney. I'm = afraid I'm=20 going to have to purchase that book. Afraid cause my wife's going = to kill=20 me :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>She was a beautiful woman . . . and = probably as=20 nice as she is pretty.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 5:53=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Ben's = book</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><FONT face=3DArial=20 size=3D2> </FONT>Ben wrote: <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wish I = could have met=20 Laura Jean. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ben,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Click here for a thumbnail sketch of Laura Jeana = and her=20 book..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=3D732&161221004-= 31774aaa">http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=3D732&16122100= 4-31774aaa</A></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 = size=3D4><BR></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2CC81.DF792060-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" <jlallen@wyoming.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Date: 04 Feb 2003 20:37:27 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2CC8D.3B6958D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Ben, Not a problem--the term "homesteading" slips easily to all our lips when = we're talking about American settlement and I'm glad you've not used it = in the book. And you're absolutely right about the area not being US = territory until after the Mexican War and the Mexican Cession--that's = what I meant when I said it wasn't part of the rectangular survey = system.=20 We're all going to love buying and reading your book. Keep the list = posted on its publication date. Best wishes, John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ben=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:49 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi Dr. John, The term homesteading is not in the book. I erroniously put it in one = of my first emails as I explained my story. The area that the family = settled on was not even owned by the US at the time. The Louisiana = purchase did not include The north slope of the Uintahs. Several of the board members have "chastised" me for making that = mistake in the email. I stand corrected :-) Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John L. Allen=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:15 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi, Ben, I'll look forward to reading your book. But for the sake of = historical accuracy, the Homestead Act did not come about until = 1862--quite some time after your characters "homesteaded a valley on the = north slope of the Uintahs." At that point in time, there was no way to = legally claim land that far west as it was not yet part of the = rectangular survey system. If it's not too late, you might want to = replace the term "homesteaded" with "settled" or even "squatted" = (referring to the taking of land without legal title--a standard = practice on the American frontier). John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ben=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Hi Wynn, I hope I've journeyed into more enjoyable waters! =20 My main character moves West with his family when he was 12 years = old, in 1828. His father was going to settle in Missouri, but when they = reached St. Louis they ran into his uncle, a mountain man and trapper = that expounded on the land far to the west, and was persuaded to claim = some of it for himself. Four years after they'd homesteaded a valley on = the north slope of the Uintahs, Indians raided, massacering his family = except for his sister, who they stole and took with them. =20 The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the tradgedy = and his search for his sister. He travels to the rendevous on the = Green River in search of his Uncle and has many an adventure. I hope I've written it so that those on this board will enjoy it = (and not made to many glaring errors). About the hundred years.....I was thinking a hundred years before = I was born....which would put me right in the middle of my story :-) = 1837, although my grandfather was still settling the country in 1900. = Started a small town in Southern Utah. Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:33 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: caring for beaver pelts Ben wrote: >Sometime's I think I was born a hundred years to late, but then = on the other hand... So your one of those who wanted to be here after all the fun was = over huh? 1900 would be pretty swivilized. Curious though does your book run the typical: didn't get along = with Dad; was always out shooting squirrel instead of in school; heads = west alone or with just a couple of others; da da da. Or have you ventured into more enjoyable waters. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2CC8D.3B6958D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Ben,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not a problem--the term "homesteading" = slips easily=20 to all our lips when we're talking about American settlement and I'm = glad you've=20 not used it in the book. And you're absolutely right about the area not = being US=20 territory until after the Mexican War and the Mexican Cession--that's = what I=20 meant when I said it wasn't part of the rectangular survey system. = </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We're all going to love buying and = reading your=20 book. Keep the list posted on its publication date.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Dr. John L. Allen<BR>2703 Leslie Court<BR>Laramie, WY = 82072-2979<BR>Phone:=20 (307) 742-0883<BR>e-mail: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">jlallen@wyoming.com</A><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dbeb1@sisna.com href=3D"mailto:beb1@sisna.com">Ben</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 7:49=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Dr. John,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The term homesteading is not in the = book. I=20 erroniously put it in one of my first emails as I explained my = story. =20 The area that the family settled on was not even owned by the US at = the=20 time. The Louisiana purchase did not include The north = slope of the=20 Uintahs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Several of the = board members=20 have "chastised" me for making that mistake in the email.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I stand corrected=20 :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Djlallen@wyoming.com = href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">John L.=20 Allen</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 5:15=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Re: = caring for=20 beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, Ben,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll look forward to reading your = book. But for=20 the sake of historical accuracy, the Homestead Act did not come = about until=20 1862--quite some time after your characters "homesteaded a valley on = the=20 north slope of the Uintahs." At that point in time, there was no way = to=20 legally claim land that far west as it was not yet part of the = rectangular=20 survey system. If it's not too late, you might want to replace the = term=20 "homesteaded" with "settled" or even "squatted" (referring to the = taking of=20 land without legal title--a standard practice on the American=20 frontier).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Dr. John L. Allen<BR>2703 Leslie Court<BR>Laramie, WY=20 82072-2979<BR>Phone: (307) 742-0883<BR>e-mail: <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">jlallen@wyoming.com</A><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- = </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dbeb1@sisna.com href=3D"mailto:beb1@sisna.com">Ben</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 9:51=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: = Re: caring=20 for beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Wynn,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've journeyed into more = enjoyable=20 waters! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My main character moves = West with his=20 family when he was 12 years old, in 1828. His father was = going to=20 settle in Missouri, but when they reached St. Louis they ran into = his=20 uncle, a mountain man and trapper that expounded on the land = far to=20 the west, and was persuaded to claim some of it for himself. = Four=20 years after they'd homesteaded a valley on the north slope of = the=20 Uintahs, Indians raided<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>, =20 massacering his family except for his sister, who they stole and = took with=20 them. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV>The story proceeds from there. How he responded to the = tradgedy=20 and his search for his sister. He travels to the = rendevous on=20 the Green River in search of his Uncle and has many an=20 adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope I've written it so that = those on this=20 board will enjoy it (and not made to many glaring = errors).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>About the hundred years.....I was = thinking a=20 hundred years before I was born....which would put me right in the = middle=20 of my story :-) 1837, although my grandfather = was still=20 settling the country in 1900. Started a small town in = Southern=20 Utah.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dleona3@sourceoneinternet.com=20 href=3D"mailto:leona3@sourceoneinternet.com">Wynn & Gretchen = Ormond</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February = 03, 2003=20 8:33 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: = Re: caring=20 for beaver pelts</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>Sometime's I think I was = born a hundred=20 years to late, but then on the other hand...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So your one of those who wanted = to be here=20 after all the fun was over huh? 1900 would be pretty=20 swivilized.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Curious though does your book = run the=20 typical: didn't get along with Dad; was always out = shooting=20 squirrel instead of in school; heads west alone or with just a = couple of=20 others; da da da.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or have you ventured into more = enjoyable=20 waters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wynn Ormond</FONT></DIV> = <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BO= DY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2CC8D.3B6958D0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ben's book Date: 04 Feb 2003 22:50:15 -0500 Aye... that she was. I never met her in person... my great loss... but she went out of her way to autograph a copy of the book and get it to me 2 years ago. I think she was indeed a wonderful woman... Lanney, you were a very lucky man to have known her. Regards, Ad Miller Thanks for the link Lanney. I'm afraid I'm going to have to purchase that book. Afraid cause my wife's going to kill me :-) She was a beautiful woman . . . and probably as nice as she is pretty. Ben ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fiction Date: 04 Feb 2003 23:21:48 EST In a message dated 2/4/03 10:53:56 AM, glenn@leaklocationservices.com writes: << IMHO, a family homesteading a valley on the north slope of the Uintas, in 1828 - 1832 >> I once met and visited with about everyone of any "old-timey" significance who were at the time living there and with recall of any early habitation. This was for research in locating the original rendezvous site (1825) and plan for the first AMM rendezvous there. They pointed out there was no habitation there at that time and for some time to follow. The closest thing to that was on the property of Orson Behunin close to spot where Burnt Fork runs down to merge with Henry's Fork. Orson showed me and Billy Keith (Yaro - to those who didn't know he had a "town" name) what was obviously the remains of a cabin foundation and the stone chimney on the east side. According to Orson some of the trappers who were at that 1825 rendezvous liked the area and returned to build a cabin for themselves there. Later, in 1868, the federal representatives met in treaty with the Shoshone band under Washakee - same year the Lakota and Cheyenne met at Fort Laramie for their disasterous treaty agreement. Washakee wanted for their reservation all that north slope land from Fort Bridger to the Green River. He didn't get it as was put on the Wind River (now) reservation and later told to share it with the Arapaho. The probability of habitation at that late date and location was still pretty slim. The exception was the farming that was done at the Mormon fort (Fort Supply)south of Fort Bridger. That was all burned out when (just before) Johnson's army came through. Judge Carter, the suttler for Fort Bridger contracted to supply hay for the army from the lands surrounding the fort and after it had become an estabished military post. By then we are talking late 1850s - early 1860. Besides - that land is all near 7,000' elevation. At that time there were lots of better places to build a cabin for a family. Most sincerely Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ben's book Date: 04 Feb 2003 22:40:10 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C2CC9E.60259510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben Please contact me off list. thanx Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ben=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:16 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ben's book Thanks for the link Lanney. I'm afraid I'm going to have to purchase = that book. Afraid cause my wife's going to kill me :-) She was a beautiful woman . . . and probably as nice as she is pretty. Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 5:53 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ben's book Ben wrote: I wish I could have met Laura Jean.=20 Ben, Click here for a thumbnail sketch of Laura Jeana and her book.. Lanney = http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=3D732&161221004-31774aaa ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C2CC9E.60259510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Please contact me off=20 list.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>thanx</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney = Ratcliff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= =20 </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dbeb1@sisna.com href=3D"mailto:beb1@sisna.com">Ben</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 9:16=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Ben's = book</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for the link Lanney. I'm = afraid I'm=20 going to have to purchase that book. Afraid cause my wife's = going to=20 kill me :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>She was a beautiful woman . . . and = probably as=20 nice as she is pretty.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 04, = 2003 5:53=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: = Ben's=20 book</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><FONT face=3DArial=20 size=3D2> </FONT>Ben wrote: <FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I wish = I could have=20 met Laura Jean. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ben,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Click here for a thumbnail sketch of Laura Jeana = and her=20 book..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=3D732&161221004-= 31774aaa">http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item?item=3D732&16122100= 4-31774aaa</A></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 = size=3D4><BR></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></= BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C2CC9E.60259510-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man book Date: 04 Feb 2003 22:50:33 -0700 (MST) Frank said, > We have been needing a real writer on this list. <G> > Frank G. Fusco > Mountain Home, AR > Romantics. Thats what you novel readers are, romantics. Give me a good true journal anyday. This is just my opinion but personally I don't consider novels worth reading as its all made up and I don't care how historically correct it is. Never read one, never will. Oh, and you got to love that cover artwork were all the guys look like Fabio and the women look like models. Yeah, but they might have looked like that?à Why is it all these novel writers have to ask the list for simple things like "how was this done?" or "what is it like by this place?" A "real" writer like you say Frank, would research it, go out and do it and travel to these spots to form their own opinions. Please, nothing personal all you fiction writers. Editors are much more critical than me, you know that. Any husband or father who would take his family further west then St. Charles Mo in the 1830's should have been arrested for negligence. It was tantamount to giving them a death sentence. If they moved even several miles away from a settlement including in the east and all there children were murdered or tortured to death by the savages before their eyes they had only themselves to blame. Perhaps this is why in the real world no white families where that far west in the 1830Æs. But it could have happened, right?à ThatÆs just my opinion too, so please donÆt get all bent out of shape everyone, I donÆt mean to sound mean. Just imagine a nice debate around a campfire and beaverboy giving his humble opinion. You know what they say about opinions. beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Colter and Yellowstone Date: 05 Feb 2003 03:01:50 EST --part1_191.14c8e174.2b721eee_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello in the camps I've got a question for ya all. I have read that Colter did not acutely enter Yellowstone and the only hot spring that he found were over by Cody that is where Colter's Hell is. But It is assumed Colter told Clark of the things he had seen in his years of travel as a trapper, as the map that appeared in Nicholas Biddle's 1814 version of the Lewis and Clark journals reflects Colter's knowledge." this map shows Colter's rout coming from west of the Tetons, going along the west shore of Lake Biddle (Jackson Lake) and proceeding to the north, to Lake Eustis (Yellowstone Lake), traversing north along the west short of that, then heading east when he gets to the north end of the lake. He proceeds NE along the Yellowstone River, fording the river at some hot springs. This rout would have took him right by some of the thermal activity in Yellowstone and seem to be in well in to Yellowstone. The question is where did this notion come from that Colter did not enter or discover Yellowstone. I have read it some where but for the life of me I cannot remember where or the reasoning be hind it. That he only made it to Cody and Colter's hell that is there and move south of the Lake. Am I up in the night or is there some proof out there that proves he did not enter Yellowstone and disproves Clarks maps? I thought someone out there could shed some light on this for me. See ya on the Trail Crazy Cyot --part1_191.14c8e174.2b721eee_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hello in the camps <BR>I've got a question for ya all. <BR>I have read that Colter did not acutely enter Yellowstone and the only h= ot spring that he found were over by Cody that is where Colter's Hell is. Bu= t It is assumed Colter told Clark of the things he had seen in his years of=20= travel as a trapper, as the map that appeared in Nicholas Biddle's 1814 vers= ion of the Lewis and Clark journals reflects Colter's knowledge." this map s= hows Colter's rout coming from west of the Tetons, going along the west shor= e of Lake Biddle (Jackson Lake) and proceeding to the north, to Lake Eustis=20= (Yellowstone Lake), traversing north along the west short of that, then head= ing east when he gets to the north end of the lake. He proceeds NE alo= ng the Yellowstone River, fording the river at some hot springs. This rout w= ould have took him right by some of the thermal activity in Yellowstone and=20= seem to be in well in to Yellowstone. <BR> <BR>The question is where did this notion come from that Colter did not ente= r or discover Yellowstone. I have read it some where but for the life of me=20= I cannot remember where or the reasoning be hind it. That he only made it to= Cody and Colter's hell that is there and move south of the Lake. Am I up in= the night or is there some proof out there that proves he did not enter Yel= lowstone and disproves Clarks maps? I thought someone out there could shed s= ome light on this for me. <BR>See ya on the Trail <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_191.14c8e174.2b721eee_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: off topic Date: 05 Feb 2003 07:34:29 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C2CCE9.04417480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben I have a post to send you but messages sent to your email account are = rejected with the reason said to be "over quota". Let me know when you = free up some space and I will send it. It is nothing that won't keep. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C2CCE9.04417480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>I have a post to send you = but messages=20 sent to your email account are rejected with the reason said = to=20 be "over quota". Let me know when you free up some space and = I will=20 send it. It is nothing that won't keep.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C2CCE9.04417480-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Ben's book Date: 05 Feb 2003 07:56:38 -0600 Ben I went and accidentially deleted your message with your full name and book title. Strange thing for me, as I have never even dry balled a gun. <G> Oh,well. Would you please resend to the list. I am going to try to pre-order a copy from Barnes and Noble, that way they will ship as soon as received. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: AMM-List: Texas Town Names...OFF TOPIC Date: 03 Feb 2003 10:09:52 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C2CB6C.646A9BD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two Texas towns that figure heavily in the shuttle debris investigation = are Nacogdoches and Palestine. Virtually all out of state reporters are = mispronouncing those towns' names. If you want to pronounce them like = the residents do try the following: Not "Pala-stine" but "Pala-steen" Not "Naka-dough-shus" but "Naka-DOUGH-chus" I realize this ain't a big deal, but I'm tired of big deals for a while. = I realize that millions heard the explosion but being one who did hear = it brings the whole disaster closer and more personal. I can't imagine = how those folks who are finding their homes littered with shuttle parts = (and body parts now) are going to be effected. It's the least we can do = to pronounce the names of their towns right.=20 God bless 'em. God bless us. Most of all, may God bless the crew and = their families. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C2CB6C.646A9BD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Two Texas towns that figure = heavily in=20 the shuttle debris investigation are Nacogdoches and Palestine. = Virtually=20 all out of state reporters are mispronouncing those towns' names. = If you=20 want to pronounce them like the residents do try the = following:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Not "Pala-stine" but=20 "Pala-steen"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Not "Naka-dough-shus" but=20 "Naka-DOUGH-chus"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>I realize this ain't a big = deal, but=20 I'm tired of big deals for a while. I realize that millions heard = the=20 explosion but being one who did hear it brings the whole disaster closer = and=20 more personal. I can't imagine how those folks who are finding = their homes=20 littered with shuttle parts (and body parts now) are going to be = effected. =20 It's the least we can do to pronounce the names of their towns right.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>God bless 'em. God = bless=20 us. Most of all, may God bless the crew and their = families.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C2CB6C.646A9BD0-- -------------------- Aux Aliments de Pays! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ben's book Date: 05 Feb 2003 10:32:37 -0800 Hi Frank, Sure, no problem. The title of the book is Chase the Wind, if the publishers don't change it. My name is Bennett H. Bracken, and after the book comes out I hope I don't have to change it. G> Amazon won't have an inkling of what you're talking about, YET!! I'll make sure you're given ample warning before it comes out. Thanks a bunch, Ben ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:56 AM > Ben > I went and accidentially deleted your message with your full name and > book title. Strange thing for me, as I have never even dry balled a gun. <G> > Oh,well. Would you please resend to the list. I am going to try to > pre-order a copy from Barnes and Noble, that way they will ship as soon as > received. > Frank G. Fusco > Mountain Home, AR > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ > http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic Date: 05 Feb 2003 10:39:04 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C2CD02.CD9DE160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lanney, I have no idea why I'd be over quota. I'm recieving fifty or sixty = emails a day, but download them from the server half a dozen times a = day. (a bunch of them wanting to help make certain body appendages = longer, or my wife's bust bigger) I'll get in touch with my ISP and = find out what's going on. Thanks, Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: History List=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:34 AM Subject: MtMan-List: off topic Ben I have a post to send you but messages sent to your email account are = rejected with the reason said to be "over quota". Let me know when you = free up some space and I will send it. It is nothing that won't keep. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C2CD02.CD9DE160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Lanney,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have no idea why I'd be over = quota. I'm=20 recieving fifty or sixty emails a day, but download them from the server = half a=20 dozen times a day. (a bunch of them wanting to help = make certain body=20 appendages longer, or my wife's bust bigger) I'll get in touch = with my ISP=20 and find out what's going on.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com=20 href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">History List</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 05, = 2003 5:34=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: off = topic</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Ben</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>I have a post to send you = but=20 messages sent to your email account are rejected with the = reason=20 said to be "over quota". Let me know when you free up some = space=20 and I will send it. It is nothing that won't keep.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C2CD02.CD9DE160-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Dearing" <jdearing@brick.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twists Date: 05 Feb 2003 16:08:35 -0600 > Capt, > That is an excellent webpage, thank you. I was given the advice from > a friend of between a 1-72" to 1-80" inch twist for a .54. The calculator > said, I believe, a twist minimum of 80. I was just curious as to how > Frank's gun shoots with a 72" inch twist. Don't know about rifling twist calculations, but I had a .54 H&H barrel with 1-56 twists that shot like a house afire. It didn't much care what powder charge I put in it. It always shot good. J.D. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Fort Union Headliner Date: 05 Feb 2003 15:52:32 -0700 (MST) Dear List, The 21st annual Fort Union Rendezvous takes place June 19-22, 2003. I just got a letter today from the fort and the headliner this year is John Luzader, a professional first person interpreter. Luzader will present an impersonation of Sargeant Patrick Gass of the L&C Expedition. Also returning are nearly two dozen of your favorite demonstrators. There are some very good and interesting demo's at the rendezvous. It cost nothing to pitch a camp at the fort! I don't know about traders, contact the fort. There is firewood and water provided. Saturday morning is the Rendezvous Run which is a regular foot race for real runners however there is a one mile Fur Trader division which is a lot of fun for all. You must walk or run in primitive clothing and footwear and carry a stick, rifle, paddle or tumpline a load etc... It cost a little to enter but it really is a ton of fun for all that participate. All that enter get a medal and nice t-shirt plus a very heatlthy breakfast after the race. The worse part is walking or running through camp and smelling all the bacon cooking! There is an imformal dance Saturday night in the fort which is really a grand time for all ages. The paddle dance is a classic. Live music is provided. I'm posting this now so anyone interested can start making plans. If your coming from the east North Dakota is loaded with historical locations to visit. Its an interesting drive from any direction. Fort Union is truly the grandest fort on the Upper Missouri and is located only one mile or so from the confluence of the Yellowstone and the Missouri. You will not be sorry you came! This I can guarantee you. Be sure to read Larpenteur's book "Forty years a fur trader on the Upper Missouri" beforehand if you can as this is where most of it took place. If you make it be sure to track down the beaver skinner (me) and say hello. I'll have a cold beer or some hot coffee for anyone on the list. I stay in the north east bastion. Hope to see some of you there, beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" <jlallen@wyoming.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Colter and Yellowstone Date: 05 Feb 2003 19:03:37 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2CD49.4A0BCFF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ho, the list, Well, Crazy, I'm partly to blame since some of my articles and books on = early mapping and exploration of the Rockies have given a different = interpretation of Clark's map than you indicate. In fact, Clark's map = proves my thesis about Colter's route rather than the other way = around--but you have to use Clark's manuscript rather than the published = edition. Let me begin by saying that I grew up in the Cody area, worked for the = Forest Service in Dubois, in the Wind River valley, and know the area = "like the back of my hand." Clark's 1810 map (the manuscript = version--not the engraved published version) shows Colter's route as = staying east of the Continental Divide. The lake that most historians = have assumed is Jackson Lake on the map (yes, there was a lake = there--the present dam has just made it bigger) is not Jackson Lake at = all but Brooks Lake just east of the Continental Divide at Togwotee = Pass. Clark's map clearly shows this lake as the source of the Wind = River/Big Horn and clearly shows the mountains dividing the Wind River = drainage from the "Lewis's River" or Snake drainage as west of the = lake--a pretty darn good rendition of the geography of the upper Wind = River. The map does not show the Tetons or any other recognizable = features west of the Continental Divide. So: Biddle Lake is not Jackson = Lake but Brooks Lake and Lake Eustis is, as you indicate Yellowstone = Lake. We know for a fact that the thermal activity noted by Colter was in the = vicinity of Cody, Wyoming since a manuscript map drawn by Clark from = sketches by both Colter and George Drouillard render the geography of = the Cody area perfectly: the South Fork and North Fork of the Shoshone = coming together west of the canyon, Heart Mountain to the north of the = river, and "boiling springs" to the east of the Shoshone Canyon--right = where the Cody Stampede rodeo grounds now sit. In fact, across the = highway from the rodeo grounds is an inactive geyser cone with = travertine deposits recent enough to suggest that it was active when = Colter was there and he probably saw an eruption since he described it = to Clark. The Demaris Hot Springs are in the same area and, although = less active now, were active enough when I was a boy in the 40s and 50s = to attract tourists to "take the waters." Here is my interpretation of Colter's route, based on 35 years of study: = from Lisa's fort at the mouth of the Big Horn, across the Pryor = Mountains to the Clark's Fork of the Yellowstone, possibly up the = Clark's Fork into the Sunlight Basin and then back out to the area just = south of where the Clark's Fork comes out of the mountains. From there, = Colter headed south, crossed the low drainage divide to the Shoshone = with Heart Mountain on his left. He spent some time in the Cody area, = probably didn't go through the canyon but around the southern end of = Cedar Mountain to the junction of the South and North Forks of the = Shoshone. He may have tried to go up the South Fork in search of a route = to the south but was probably stymied by the terrain and the snow. = (Remember he was on foot and traveling in January-February.) The = mountains on the south side of the southern branch of the Shoshone rise = almost vertically from the valley floor--not something that any = reasonable man would have tried to scale in mid-winter. I've crossed = several of the passes between the Shoshone drainage and the Wind River = drainage in this area and on most of them, got off my horse and led her = rather than staying aboard--and I'm not afraid of heights!. So Colter = probably came back down the South Fork, around the southern end of = Carter Mountain, south across the Greybull River (just west of = Meteetsee, Wyoming, and then across a low pass in the Owl Creek = Mountains west of Thermopolis, Wyoming to the Wind River (if he'd gone = through the Wind River Canyon, he surely would have noted it when he = conveyed information to Clark). He traveled up the Wind River to its = source in Brooks Lake, then turned north along the eastern base of the = mountains (remember the steep cliffs in the movie "Mountain Man"?--those = are the mountains west of Brooks Lake) through Turpin Meadows and into = what is now Yellowstone. He probably skirted Yellowstone Lake on the = east, staying between the lake and the Absarokas, forded the river at = the traditional Shoshone crossing downstream from the Grand Canyon of = the Yellowstone (again, there is no evidence that he saw the Grand = Canyon because that feature doesn't appear on Clark's map either). In = the vicinity of the junction of the Yellowstone and Lamar, he fell in = with a group of Bannock Shoshones, heading for the buffalo hunting = grounds of the Great Plains. Traveling with the Indians, he crossed = between the Lamar River drainage and the Clark's Fork drainage over what = we now call "Colter's Pass"--near present-day Cooke City, Montana--and = down the Clark's Fork through the Sunlight Basin country, probably = crossing over Dead Indian Hill (just like the Nez Perce would do 70 = years later in their flight from the US Army), to the Shoshone River and = down the Shoshone to its junction with the Big Horn and down the Big = Horn to Lisa's fort. Let me stress that this is the only route that is consistent with the = information presented on Clark's 1810 manuscript map, and the Clark map = of the Big Horn Basin drawn from information provided by Colter and = Droulliard. Unfortunately, in producing the engraving for the 1814 = published edition of Clark's map, Samuel Lewis (the engraver and no = relation to Meriwether) misread some of Clark's manuscript and showed = Colter's route crossing the Continental Divide all right and then = turning and recrossing into the Yellowstone drainage. What river was = Colter on, according to the published map, when he crossed the Divide = just west of the Wind River? Why the Rio del Norte, of course--and = that's the term used by Clark and others to describe the Rio Grande! For = sure, according to the 1814 map, Colter was not on the Snake--and he = wasn't on the Snake according to Clark's manuscript either. One more comment: at the Teton N.P. headquarters at Moose, there is a = rock roughly carved into the shape of a man's head with the name "J. = Colter" inscribed on it. This rock was turned up in a farmer's field in = Idaho, west of Teton Pass and the Teton Range in the 1930s and has been = used as proof that Colter was in Jackson's Hole, crossed Teton Pass, = and--for reasons that no one has ever been able to explain--spent = precious time carving a rock into the shape of a man's head and = inscribing his name into it. There are several things wrong with this = piece of evidence: first, why in the world would Colter ever have done = such a thing?; second, Colter couldn't read or write--even his own name = (in the Lewis and Clark Expedition records, he's made a mark next to a = signature obviously written by Lewis); third, a letter from a soldier = accompanying the Hayden expedition into Yellowstone and the Tetons in = 1872 describes how this soldier "hoaxed" others by carving the names of = early explorers on rocks, trees, etc. If you want a reading list, please contact me off-list as this message = is already far too long. Watch the skyline. John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GazeingCyot@cs.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:01 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Colter and Yellowstone Hello in the camps=20 I've got a question for ya all.=20 I have read that Colter did not acutely enter Yellowstone and the only = hot spring that he found were over by Cody that is where Colter's Hell = is. But It is assumed Colter told Clark of the things he had seen in his = years of travel as a trapper, as the map that appeared in Nicholas = Biddle's 1814 version of the Lewis and Clark journals reflects Colter's = knowledge." this map shows Colter's rout coming from west of the Tetons, = going along the west shore of Lake Biddle (Jackson Lake) and proceeding = to the north, to Lake Eustis (Yellowstone Lake), traversing north along = the west short of that, then heading east when he gets to the north end = of the lake. He proceeds NE along the Yellowstone River, fording the = river at some hot springs. This rout would have took him right by some = of the thermal activity in Yellowstone and seem to be in well in to = Yellowstone.=20 The question is where did this notion come from that Colter did not = enter or discover Yellowstone. I have read it some where but for the = life of me I cannot remember where or the reasoning be hind it. That he = only made it to Cody and Colter's hell that is there and move south of = the Lake. Am I up in the night or is there some proof out there that = proves he did not enter Yellowstone and disproves Clarks maps? I thought = someone out there could shed some light on this for me.=20 See ya on the Trail=20 Crazy Cyot=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2CD49.4A0BCFF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ho, the list,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, Crazy, I'm partly to blame since = some of my=20 articles and books on early mapping and exploration of the Rockies have = given a=20 different interpretation of Clark's map than you indicate. In fact, = Clark's map=20 proves my thesis about Colter's route rather than the other way = around--but you=20 have to use Clark's manuscript rather than the published = edition.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Let me begin by saying that I grew up = in the Cody=20 area, worked for the Forest Service in Dubois, in the Wind River valley, = and=20 know the area "like the back of my hand." Clark's 1810 map (the = manuscript=20 version--not the engraved published version) shows Colter's route as = staying=20 east of the Continental Divide. The lake that most historians = have=20 assumed is Jackson Lake on the map (yes, there was a lake there--the = present dam=20 has just made it bigger) is not Jackson Lake at all but Brooks Lake just = east of=20 the Continental Divide at Togwotee Pass. Clark's map clearly shows this = lake as=20 the source of the Wind River/Big Horn and clearly shows the mountains = dividing=20 the Wind River drainage from the "Lewis's River" or Snake drainage as = west of=20 the lake--a pretty darn good rendition of the geography of the upper = Wind River.=20 The map does not show the Tetons or any other recognizable features west = of the=20 Continental Divide. So: Biddle Lake is not Jackson Lake but Brooks Lake = and Lake=20 Eustis is, as you indicate Yellowstone Lake.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We know for a fact that the thermal = activity noted=20 by Colter was in the vicinity of Cody, Wyoming since a manuscript map = drawn by=20 Clark from sketches by both Colter and George Drouillard render the = geography of=20 the Cody area perfectly: the South Fork and North Fork of the Shoshone = coming=20 together west of the canyon, Heart Mountain to the north of the river, = and=20 "boiling springs" to the east of the Shoshone Canyon--right where the = Cody=20 Stampede rodeo grounds now sit. In fact, across the highway from the = rodeo=20 grounds is an inactive geyser cone with travertine deposits recent = enough to=20 suggest that it was active when Colter was there and he probably saw an=20 eruption since he described it to Clark. The Demaris Hot Springs = are in the=20 same area and, although less active now, were active enough when I was a = boy in=20 the 40s and 50s to attract tourists to "take the waters."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here is my interpretation of Colter's = route, based=20 on 35 years of study: from Lisa's fort at the mouth of the Big Horn, = across the=20 Pryor Mountains to the Clark's Fork of the Yellowstone, possibly up the = Clark's=20 Fork into the Sunlight Basin and then back out to the area just south of = where=20 the Clark's Fork comes out of the mountains. From there, Colter headed = south,=20 crossed the low drainage divide to the Shoshone with Heart Mountain on = his left.=20 He spent some time in the Cody area, probably didn't go through the = canyon but=20 around the southern end of Cedar Mountain to the junction of the South = and North=20 Forks of the Shoshone. He may have tried to go up the South Fork in = search of a=20 route to the south but was probably stymied by the terrain and the snow. = (Remember he was on foot and traveling in January-February.) The = mountains on=20 the south side of the southern branch of the Shoshone rise almost = vertically=20 from the valley floor--not something that any reasonable man would have = tried to=20 scale in mid-winter. I've crossed several of the passes between the = Shoshone=20 drainage and the Wind River drainage in this area and on most of them, = got off=20 my horse and led her rather than staying aboard--and I'm not afraid of = heights!.=20 So Colter probably came back down the South Fork, around the southern = end of=20 Carter Mountain, south across the Greybull River (just west of = Meteetsee,=20 Wyoming, and then across a low pass in the Owl Creek Mountains west of=20 Thermopolis, Wyoming to the Wind River (if he'd gone through the Wind = River=20 Canyon, he surely would have noted it when he conveyed information to = Clark). He=20 traveled up the Wind River to its source in Brooks Lake, then turned = north along=20 the eastern base of the mountains (remember the steep cliffs in the = movie=20 "Mountain Man"?--those are the mountains west of Brooks Lake) through = Turpin=20 Meadows and into what is now Yellowstone. He probably skirted = Yellowstone Lake=20 on the east, staying between the lake and the Absarokas, forded the = river at the=20 traditional Shoshone crossing downstream from the Grand Canyon of the=20 Yellowstone (again, there is no evidence that he saw the Grand Canyon = because=20 that feature doesn't appear on Clark's map either). In the vicinity of = the=20 junction of the Yellowstone and Lamar, he fell in with a group of = Bannock=20 Shoshones, heading for the buffalo hunting grounds of the Great Plains.=20 Traveling with the Indians, he crossed between the Lamar River drainage = and the=20 Clark's Fork drainage over what we now call "Colter's Pass"--near = present-day=20 Cooke City, Montana--and down the Clark's Fork through the Sunlight = Basin=20 country, probably crossing over Dead Indian Hill (just like the Nez = Perce would=20 do 70 years later in their flight from the US Army), to the Shoshone = River and=20 down the Shoshone to its junction with the Big Horn and down the Big = Horn to=20 Lisa's fort.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Let me stress that this is the only = route that is=20 consistent with the information presented on Clark's 1810 manuscript = map, and=20 the Clark map of the Big Horn Basin drawn from information provided by = Colter=20 and Droulliard. Unfortunately, in producing the engraving for the 1814 = published=20 edition of Clark's map, Samuel Lewis (the engraver and no relation to=20 Meriwether) misread some of Clark's manuscript and showed Colter's route = crossing the Continental Divide all right and then turning and = recrossing into=20 the Yellowstone drainage. What river was Colter on, according to the = published=20 map, when he crossed the Divide just west of the Wind River? Why the Rio = del=20 Norte, of course--and that's the term used by Clark and others to = describe the=20 Rio Grande! For sure, according to the 1814 map, Colter was not on the=20 Snake--and he wasn't on the Snake according to Clark's manuscript=20 either.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One more comment: at the Teton N.P. = headquarters at=20 Moose, there is a rock roughly carved into the shape of a man's head = with the=20 name "J. Colter" inscribed on it. This rock was turned up in a farmer's = field in=20 Idaho, west of Teton Pass and the Teton Range in the 1930s and has been = used as=20 proof that Colter was in Jackson's Hole, crossed Teton Pass, and--for = reasons=20 that no one has ever been able to explain--spent precious time carving a = rock=20 into the shape of a man's head and inscribing his name into it. There = are=20 several things wrong with this piece of evidence: first, why in the = world would=20 Colter ever have done such a thing?; second, Colter couldn't read or = write--even=20 his own name (in the Lewis and Clark Expedition records, he's made a = mark next=20 to a signature obviously written by Lewis); third, a letter from a = soldier=20 accompanying the Hayden expedition into Yellowstone and the Tetons in = 1872=20 describes how this soldier "hoaxed" others by carving the names of early = explorers on rocks, trees, etc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you want a reading list, please = contact me=20 off-list as this message is already far too long.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Watch the skyline.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Dr. John L. Allen<BR>2703 Leslie Court<BR>Laramie, WY = 82072-2979<BR>Phone:=20 (307) 742-0883<BR>e-mail: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">jlallen@wyoming.com</A><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DGazeingCyot@cs.com=20 href=3D"mailto:GazeingCyot@cs.com">GazeingCyot@cs.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 05, = 2003 1:01=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Colter and = Yellowstone</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Hello in = the camps=20 <BR>I've got a question for ya all. <BR>I have read that Colter did = not=20 acutely enter Yellowstone and the only hot spring that he found were = over by=20 Cody that is where Colter's Hell is. But It is assumed Colter told = Clark of=20 the things he had seen in his years of travel as a trapper, as the map = that=20 appeared in Nicholas Biddle's 1814 version of the Lewis and Clark = journals=20 reflects Colter's knowledge." this map shows Colter's rout coming from = west of=20 the Tetons, going along the west shore of Lake Biddle (Jackson Lake) = and=20 proceeding to the north, to Lake Eustis (Yellowstone Lake), traversing = north=20 along the west short of that, then heading east when he gets to the = north end=20 of the lake. He proceeds NE along the Yellowstone River, fording = the=20 river at some hot springs. This rout would have took him right by some = of the=20 thermal activity in Yellowstone and seem to be in well in to = Yellowstone.=20 <BR><BR>The question is where did this notion come from that Colter = did not=20 enter or discover Yellowstone. I have read it some where but for the = life of=20 me I cannot remember where or the reasoning be hind it. That he only = made it=20 to Cody and Colter's hell that is there and move south of the Lake. Am = I up in=20 the night or is there some proof out there that proves he did not = enter=20 Yellowstone and disproves Clarks maps? I thought someone out there = could shed=20 some light on this for me. <BR>See ya on the Trail <BR>Crazy Cyot=20 <BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C2CD49.4A0BCFF0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dean Rudy <drudy@xmission.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Colter and Yellowstone Date: 05 Feb 2003 21:47:20 -0700 <html> John - <br> <br> An interesting interpretation of Colter's route. Thanks for taking the time to post it.<br> <br> For everybody's reference, Clark's manuscript map can be viewed at:<br> <a= href=3D"http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/haines1/images/ieem1.jpg= "= eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/haines1/image= s/ieem1.jpg</a><br> <br> A question:<br> On Clark's (manuscript) map, it shows Colter's route being along the west shore of Lake Eustis (Yellowstone), then circling east around the north end of the lake then following the large river at the outlet until he forded the river where he noted "hot springs brimstone". Was there a typo in your route description, or do you believe Clark got that wrong? If Colter's route was between the Lake and the Absorokas, why would he need to ford the Yellowstone to go up the Lamar?<br> <br> regards,<br> Dean Rudy<br> <br> At 07:03 PM 2/5/03 -0700, you wrote: <br> <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite>Ho, the list,</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Well, Crazy, I'm partly to blame since some of my articles and books on early mapping and exploration of the Rockies have given a different interpretation of Clark's map than you indicate. In fact, Clark's map proves my thesis about Colter's route rather than the other way around--but you have to use Clark's manuscript rather than the published edition.</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Let me begin by saying that I grew up i= n the Cody area, worked for the Forest Service in Dubois, in the Wind River valley, and know the area "like the back of my hand." Clark's 1810 map (the manuscript version--not the engraved published version) shows Colter's route as staying east of the Continental Divide.=A0The lake that=A0most historians have assumed is Jackson Lake on the map (yes, there was a lake there--the present dam has just made it bigger) is not Jackson Lake at all but Brooks Lake just east of the Continental Divide at Togwotee Pass. Clark's map clearly shows this lake as the source of the Wind River/Big Horn and clearly shows the mountains dividing the Wind River drainage from the "Lewis's River" or Snake drainage as west of the lake--a pretty darn good rendition of the geography of the upper Wind River. The map does not show the Tetons or any other recognizable features west of the Continental Divide. So: Biddle Lake is not Jackson Lake but Brooks Lake and Lake Eustis is, as you indicate Yellowstone Lake.</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>We know for a fact that the thermal activity noted by Colter was in the vicinity of Cody, Wyoming since a manuscript map drawn by Clark from sketches by both Colter and George Drouillard render the geography of the Cody area perfectly: the South Fork and North Fork of the Shoshone coming together west of the canyon, Heart Mountain to the north of the river, and "boiling springs" to the east of the Shoshone Canyon--right where the Cody Stampede rodeo grounds now sit. In fact, across the highway from the rodeo grounds is an inactive geyser cone with travertine deposits recent enough to suggest that it was active when Colter was there and he probably saw an eruption=A0since he described it to Clark. The Demaris Hot Springs are in the same area and, although less active now, were active enough when I was a boy in the 40s and 50s to attract tourists to "take the waters."</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Here is my interpretation of Colter's route, based on 35 years of study: from Lisa's fort at the mouth of the Big Horn, across the Pryor Mountains to the Clark's Fork of the Yellowstone, possibly up the Clark's Fork into the Sunlight Basin and then back out to the area just south of where the Clark's Fork comes out of the mountains. From there, Colter headed south, crossed the low drainage divide to the Shoshone with Heart Mountain on his left. He spent some time in the Cody area, probably didn't go through the canyon but around the southern end of Cedar Mountain to the junction of the South and North Forks of the Shoshone. He may have tried to go up the South Fork in search of a route to the south but was probably stymied by the terrain and the snow. (Remember he was on foot and traveling in January-February.) The mountains on the south side of the southern branch of the Shoshone rise almost vertically from the valley floor--not something that any reasonable man would have tried to scale in mid-winter. I've crossed several of the passes between the Shoshone drainage and the Wind River drainage in this area and on most of them, got off my horse and led her rather than staying aboard--and I'm not afraid of heights!. So Colter probably came back down the South Fork, around the southern end of Carter Mountain, south across the Greybull River (just west of Meteetsee, Wyoming, and then across a low pass in the Owl Creek Mountains west of Thermopolis, Wyoming to the Wind River (if he'd gone through the Wind River Canyon, he surely would have noted it when he conveyed information to Clark). He traveled up the Wind River to its source in Brooks Lake, then turned north along the eastern base of the mountains (remember the steep cliffs in the movie "Mountain Man"?--those are the mountains west of Brooks Lake) through Turpin Meadows and into what is now Yellowstone. He probably skirted Yellowstone Lake on the east, staying between the lake and the Absarokas, forded the river at the traditional Shoshone crossing downstream from the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone (again, there is no evidence that he saw the Grand Canyon because that feature doesn't appear on Clark's map either). In the vicinity of the junction of the Yellowstone and Lamar, he fell in with a group of Bannock Shoshones, heading for the buffalo hunting grounds of the Great Plains. Traveling with the Indians, he crossed between the Lamar River drainage and the Clark's Fork drainage over what we now call "Colter's Pass"--near present-day Cooke City, Montana--and down the Clark's Fork through the Sunlight Basin country, probably crossing over Dead Indian Hill (just like the Nez Perce would do 70 years later in their flight from the US Army), to the Shoshone River and down the Shoshone to its junction with the Big Horn and down the Big Horn to Lisa's fort.</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Let me stress that this is the only route that is consistent with the information presented on Clark's 1810 manuscript map, and the Clark map of the Big Horn Basin drawn from information provided by Colter and Droulliard. Unfortunately, in producing the engraving for the 1814 published edition of Clark's map, Samuel Lewis (the engraver and no relation to Meriwether) misread some of Clark's manuscript and showed Colter's route crossing the Continental Divide all right and then turning and recrossing into the Yellowstone drainage. What river was Colter on, according to the published map, when he crossed the Divide just west of the Wind River? Why the Rio del Norte, of course--and that's the term used by Clark and others to describe the Rio Grande! For sure, according to the 1814 map, Colter was not on the Snake--and he wasn't on the Snake according to Clark's manuscript either.</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>One more comment: at the Teton N.P. headquarters at Moose, there is a rock roughly carved into the shape of a man's head with the name "J. Colter" inscribed on it. This rock was turned up in a farmer's field in Idaho, west of Teton Pass and the Teton Range in the 1930s and has been used as proof that Colter was in Jackson's Hole, crossed Teton Pass, and--for reasons that no one has ever been able to explain--spent precious time carving a rock into the shape of a man's head and inscribing his name into it. There are several things wrong with this piece of evidence: first, why in the world would Colter ever have done such a thing?; second, Colter couldn't read or write--even his own name (in the Lewis and Clark Expedition records, he's made a mark next to a signature obviously written by Lewis); third, a letter from a soldier accompanying the Hayden expedition into Yellowstone and the Tetons in 1872 describes how this soldier "hoaxed" others by carving the names of early explorers on rocks, trees, etc.</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>If you want a reading list, please contact me off-list as this message is already far too long.</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Watch the skyline.</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> </font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>John</font><br> <font size=3D3>=A0<br> Dr. John L. Allen<br> 2703 Leslie Court<br> Laramie, WY 82072-2979<br> Phone: (307) 742-0883<br> e-mail: <a= href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">jlallen@wyoming.com</a></font><blockquo= te> <dl> <dd>----- Original Message -----=20 <dd>From:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:GazeingCyot@cs.com">GazeingCyot@cs.com</a>= =20 <dd>To:</b> <a= href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com</= a>=20 <dd>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:01 AM <dd>Subject:</b> MtMan-List: Colter and Yellowstone<br> <br> <font face=3D"arial" size=3D2> <dd>Hello in the camps=20 <dd>I've got a question for ya all.=20 <dd>I have read that Colter did not acutely enter Yellowstone and the only= hot spring that he found were over by Cody that is where Colter's Hell is.= But It is assumed Colter told Clark of the things he had seen in his years= of travel as a trapper, as the map that appeared in Nicholas Biddle's 1814= version of the Lewis and Clark journals reflects Colter's knowledge."= this map shows Colter's rout coming from west of the Tetons, going along= the west shore of Lake Biddle (Jackson Lake) and proceeding to the north,= to Lake Eustis (Yellowstone Lake), traversing north along the west short of= that, then heading east when he gets to the north end of the lake. =A0He= proceeds NE along the Yellowstone River, fording the river at some hot= springs. This rout would have took him right by some of the thermal= activity in Yellowstone and seem to be in well in to Yellowstone. <br> <br> <dd>The question is where did this notion come from that Colter did not= enter or discover Yellowstone. I have read it some where but for the life= of me I cannot remember where or the reasoning be hind it. That he only= made it to Cody and Colter's hell that is there and move south of the Lake.= Am I up in the night or is there some proof out there that proves he did= not enter Yellowstone and disproves Clarks maps? I thought someone out= there could shed some light on this for me.=20 <dd>See ya on the Trail=20 <dd>Crazy Cyot <br> <br> <br> <br> </font></blockquote> </dl></html> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" <jlallen@wyoming.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Colter and Yellowstone Date: 05 Feb 2003 23:30:41 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2CD6E.98FB7C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dean, Thanks for posting the URL on the Clark 1810 map--I should have done = that. It is my understanding, by the way, that Yale Univ. which = currently holds the Clark 1810 map, is doing a full-size reproduction of = it for sale sometime during the L&C Bicentennial. I know that some of = the folks on the list would be interested in getting their meathooks on = this reproduction and when/if I hear more about it, I'll let you know. Your questions are perfectly logical and are the result of my failure to = be more precise. I think the river that Colter forded in the northern = part of present-day Yellowstone Park was the Lamar, not the = Yellowstone--just east of Tower Falls. North of the Lamar and upstream a = little ways there were several sizeable hot springs just southeast of = Druid Peak (presently much less active since the Madison Quake in 1959). = I think that these thermal phenomena are those Clark noted on his map. I = also think that Clark made an error in transcribing Colter's data that = was probably delivered verbally rather than in map form since there is = no evidence that Colter ever drew a map. If Colter had gone west of = Yellowstone Lake, it would have been difficult for him to miss the Heart = Lake geyser basin, the West Thumb geyser basin, the Dragon's Mouth and = Sulfur Springs near the outlet of the Yellowstone River (you can both = hear and smell those from a mile or more away), or the Yellowstone's = Grand Canyon--none of which Clark inserted on his map. The Bannock Trail = that Colter probably followed out of the Park crossed the Yellowstone = from the west near Tower Falls but above the junction of the Lamar and = Yellowstone and then crossed the Lamar near the thermal region that = Clark notes on his map. This is probably where Colter joined with the = Bannocks and traveled east with them. Of course it is possible that = Clark's map is an accurate rendering of Colter's route and Colter did, = in fact, go west of Yellowstone Lake--but I doubt it because of so much = missing data that Clark would surely have entered if Colter had seen it = and told him about it. Why show the Shoshone Canyon and Clark's Fork = Canyon on the map (as Clark did) and not the Grand Canyon of the = Yellowstone and the two huge falls which would have been pretty hard for = Colter to miss if he followed the Yellowstone downstream from the Lake? = Of course, we'll never know but that's part of the fun of attempting to = fit Clark's cartography into what makes sense as we look at modern maps. = And maybe I'll change my mind as I continue to study this. Finally, there are two important things to keep in mind. First, Billy = Clark is one of my heroes but I'd be the first to admit that his = post-expedition mapping still left a lot of unanswered questions and got = a lot of the geography that he himself hadn't seen just plain dead = wrong. Consider that in an area about 100 miles square he shows the = headwaters of the Yellowstone, Big Horn, Platte, Arkansas, Rio Grande, = and Snake! And second, we also can't forget the possibility of Colter = himself being wrong about just where he went. Imagine a guy just out of = the mountains after nearly 5 years away from what passed for = civilization in St. Louis heading first for a tavern and then to see = Cap'n Clark to report on his travels--might have been more than one or = two errors in the process data transmission! Best wishes, John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dean Rudy=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:47 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Colter and Yellowstone John -=20 An interesting interpretation of Colter's route. Thanks for taking = the time to post it. For everybody's reference, Clark's manuscript map can be viewed at: http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/haines1/images/ieem1.jpg A question: On Clark's (manuscript) map, it shows Colter's route being along the = west shore of Lake Eustis (Yellowstone), then circling east around the = north end of the lake then following the large river at the outlet until = he forded the river where he noted "hot springs brimstone". Was there a = typo in your route description, or do you believe Clark got that wrong? = If Colter's route was between the Lake and the Absorokas, why would he = need to ford the Yellowstone to go up the Lamar? regards, Dean Rudy At 07:03 PM 2/5/03 -0700, you wrote:=20 Ho, the list, =20 Well, Crazy, I'm partly to blame since some of my articles and books = on early mapping and exploration of the Rockies have given a different = interpretation of Clark's map than you indicate. In fact, Clark's map = proves my thesis about Colter's route rather than the other way = around--but you have to use Clark's manuscript rather than the published = edition. =20 Let me begin by saying that I grew up in the Cody area, worked for = the Forest Service in Dubois, in the Wind River valley, and know the = area "like the back of my hand." Clark's 1810 map (the manuscript = version--not the engraved published version) shows Colter's route as = staying east of the Continental Divide. The lake that most historians = have assumed is Jackson Lake on the map (yes, there was a lake = there--the present dam has just made it bigger) is not Jackson Lake at = all but Brooks Lake just east of the Continental Divide at Togwotee = Pass. Clark's map clearly shows this lake as the source of the Wind = River/Big Horn and clearly shows the mountains dividing the Wind River = drainage from the "Lewis's River" or Snake drainage as west of the = lake--a pretty darn good rendition of the geography of the upper Wind = River. The map does not show the Tetons or any other recognizable = features west of the Continental Divide. So: Biddle Lake is not Jackson = Lake but Brooks Lake and Lake Eustis is, as you indicate Yellowstone = Lake. =20 We know for a fact that the thermal activity noted by Colter was in = the vicinity of Cody, Wyoming since a manuscript map drawn by Clark from = sketches by both Colter and George Drouillard render the geography of = the Cody area perfectly: the South Fork and North Fork of the Shoshone = coming together west of the canyon, Heart Mountain to the north of the = river, and "boiling springs" to the east of the Shoshone Canyon--right = where the Cody Stampede rodeo grounds now sit. In fact, across the = highway from the rodeo grounds is an inactive geyser cone with = travertine deposits recent enough to suggest that it was active when = Colter was there and he probably saw an eruption since he described it = to Clark. The Demaris Hot Springs are in the same area and, although = less active now, were active enough when I was a boy in the 40s and 50s = to attract tourists to "take the waters." =20 Here is my interpretation of Colter's route, based on 35 years of = study: from Lisa's fort at the mouth of the Big Horn, across the Pryor = Mountains to the Clark's Fork of the Yellowstone, possibly up the = Clark's Fork into the Sunlight Basin and then back out to the area just = south of where the Clark's Fork comes out of the mountains. From there, = Colter headed south, crossed the low drainage divide to the Shoshone = with Heart Mountain on his left. He spent some time in the Cody area, = probably didn't go through the canyon but around the southern end of = Cedar Mountain to the junction of the South and North Forks of the = Shoshone. He may have tried to go up the South Fork in search of a route = to the south but was probably stymied by the terrain and the snow. = (Remember he was on foot and traveling in January-February.) The = mountains on the south side of the southern branch of the Shoshone rise = almost vertically from the valley floor--not something that any = reasonable man would have tried to scale in mid-winter. I've crossed = several of the passes between the Shoshone drainage and the Wind River = drainage in this area and on most of them, got off my horse and led her = rather than staying aboard--and I'm not afraid of heights!. So Colter = probably came back down the South Fork, around the southern end of = Carter Mountain, south across the Greybull River (just west of = Meteetsee, Wyoming, and then across a low pass in the Owl Creek = Mountains west of Thermopolis, Wyoming to the Wind River (if he'd gone = through the Wind River Canyon, he surely would have noted it when he = conveyed information to Clark). He traveled up the Wind River to its = source in Brooks Lake, then turned north along the eastern base of the = mountains (remember the steep cliffs in the movie "Mountain Man"?--those = are the mountains west of Brooks Lake) through Turpin Meadows and into = what is now Yellowstone. He probably skirted Yellowstone Lake on the = east, staying between the lake and the Absarokas, forded the river at = the traditional Shoshone crossing downstream from the Grand Canyon of = the Yellowstone (again, there is no evidence that he saw the Grand = Canyon because that feature doesn't appear on Clark's map either). In = the vicinity of the junction of the Yellowstone and Lamar, he fell in = with a group of Bannock Shoshones, heading for the buffalo hunting = grounds of the Great Plains. Traveling with the Indians, he crossed = between the Lamar River drainage and the Clark's Fork drainage over what = we now call "Colter's Pass"--near present-day Cooke City, Montana--and = down the Clark's Fork through the Sunlight Basin country, probably = crossing over Dead Indian Hill (just like the Nez Perce would do 70 = years later in their flight from the US Army), to the Shoshone River and = down the Shoshone to its junction with the Big Horn and down the Big = Horn to Lisa's fort. =20 Let me stress that this is the only route that is consistent with = the information presented on Clark's 1810 manuscript map, and the Clark = map of the Big Horn Basin drawn from information provided by Colter and = Droulliard. Unfortunately, in producing the engraving for the 1814 = published edition of Clark's map, Samuel Lewis (the engraver and no = relation to Meriwether) misread some of Clark's manuscript and showed = Colter's route crossing the Continental Divide all right and then = turning and recrossing into the Yellowstone drainage. What river was = Colter on, according to the published map, when he crossed the Divide = just west of the Wind River? Why the Rio del Norte, of course--and = that's the term used by Clark and others to describe the Rio Grande! For = sure, according to the 1814 map, Colter was not on the Snake--and he = wasn't on the Snake according to Clark's manuscript either. =20 One more comment: at the Teton N.P. headquarters at Moose, there is = a rock roughly carved into the shape of a man's head with the name "J. = Colter" inscribed on it. This rock was turned up in a farmer's field in = Idaho, west of Teton Pass and the Teton Range in the 1930s and has been = used as proof that Colter was in Jackson's Hole, crossed Teton Pass, = and--for reasons that no one has ever been able to explain--spent = precious time carving a rock into the shape of a man's head and = inscribing his name into it. There are several things wrong with this = piece of evidence: first, why in the world would Colter ever have done = such a thing?; second, Colter couldn't read or write--even his own name = (in the Lewis and Clark Expedition records, he's made a mark next to a = signature obviously written by Lewis); third, a letter from a soldier = accompanying the Hayden expedition into Yellowstone and the Tetons in = 1872 describes how this soldier "hoaxed" others by carving the names of = early explorers on rocks, trees, etc. =20 If you want a reading list, please contact me off-list as this = message is already far too long. =20 Watch the skyline. =20 John =20 Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GazeingCyot@cs.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:01 AM=20 Subject: MtMan-List: Colter and Yellowstone Hello in the camps=20 I've got a question for ya all.=20 I have read that Colter did not acutely enter Yellowstone and = the only hot spring that he found were over by Cody that is where = Colter's Hell is. But It is assumed Colter told Clark of the things he = had seen in his years of travel as a trapper, as the map that appeared = in Nicholas Biddle's 1814 version of the Lewis and Clark journals = reflects Colter's knowledge." this map shows Colter's rout coming from = west of the Tetons, going along the west shore of Lake Biddle (Jackson = Lake) and proceeding to the north, to Lake Eustis (Yellowstone Lake), = traversing north along the west short of that, then heading east when he = gets to the north end of the lake. He proceeds NE along the Yellowstone = River, fording the river at some hot springs. This rout would have took = him right by some of the thermal activity in Yellowstone and seem to be = in well in to Yellowstone.=20 The question is where did this notion come from that Colter did = not enter or discover Yellowstone. I have read it some where but for the = life of me I cannot remember where or the reasoning be hind it. That he = only made it to Cody and Colter's hell that is there and move south of = the Lake. Am I up in the night or is there some proof out there that = proves he did not enter Yellowstone and disproves Clarks maps? I thought = someone out there could shed some light on this for me.=20 See ya on the Trail=20 Crazy Cyot=20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2CD6E.98FB7C30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dean,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for posting the URL on the Clark = 1810 map--I=20 should have done that. It is my understanding, by the way, that Yale = Univ. which=20 currently holds the Clark 1810 map, is doing a full-size reproduction of = it for=20 sale sometime during the L&C Bicentennial. I know that some of the = folks on=20 the list would be interested in getting their meathooks=20 on this reproduction and when/if I hear more about it, = I'll let=20 you know.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Your questions are perfectly logical = and are the=20 result of my failure to be more precise. I think the river that = Colter=20 forded in the northern part of present-day Yellowstone Park was the = Lamar, not=20 the Yellowstone--just east of Tower Falls. North of the Lamar and = upstream=20 a little ways there were several sizeable hot springs just = southeast of=20 Druid Peak (presently much less active since the Madison Quake in = 1959). I=20 think that these thermal phenomena are those Clark noted on his map. I = also=20 think that Clark made an error in transcribing Colter's data that was = probably=20 delivered verbally rather than in map form since there is no evidence = that=20 Colter ever drew a map. If Colter had gone west of Yellowstone Lake, it = would=20 have been difficult for him to miss the Heart Lake geyser basin, the = West Thumb=20 geyser basin, the Dragon's Mouth and Sulfur Springs near the outlet of = the=20 Yellowstone River (you can both hear and smell those from a mile or more = away),=20 or the Yellowstone's Grand Canyon--none of which Clark inserted on his = map. The=20 Bannock Trail that Colter probably followed out of the Park crossed the=20 Yellowstone from the west near Tower Falls but above the junction = of the=20 Lamar and Yellowstone and then crossed the Lamar near the thermal region = that=20 Clark notes on his map. This is probably where Colter joined with the = Bannocks=20 and traveled east with them. Of course it is possible that Clark's = map is=20 an accurate rendering of Colter's route and Colter did, in fact, go west = of=20 Yellowstone Lake--but I doubt it because of so much missing data that = Clark=20 would surely have entered if Colter had seen it and told him about = it. Why=20 show the Shoshone Canyon and Clark's Fork Canyon on the map (as Clark = did) and=20 not the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone and the two huge = falls which would=20 have been pretty hard for Colter to miss if he followed the Yellowstone=20 downstream from the Lake? Of course, we'll never know but that's part of = the fun=20 of attempting to fit Clark's cartography into what makes sense as we = look at=20 modern maps. And maybe I'll change my mind as I continue to study=20 this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Finally, there are two important things = to keep in=20 mind. First, Billy Clark is one of my heroes but I'd be the first = to admit=20 that his post-expedition mapping still left a lot of unanswered = questions and=20 got a lot of the geography that he himself hadn't seen just plain dead = wrong.=20 Consider that in an area about 100 miles square he shows the headwaters = of the=20 Yellowstone, Big Horn, Platte, Arkansas, Rio Grande, and Snake! And = second,=20 w</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>e also can't forget the possibility = of Colter=20 himself being wrong about just where he went. Imagine a guy just = out of the=20 mountains after nearly 5 years away from what passed for = civilization in=20 St. Louis heading first for a tavern and then to see Cap'n Clark to = report on=20 his travels--might have been more than one or two errors in the process = data=20 transmission!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Dr. John L. Allen<BR>2703 Leslie Court<BR>Laramie, WY = 82072-2979<BR>Phone:=20 (307) 742-0883<BR>e-mail: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">jlallen@wyoming.com</A><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Ddrudy@xmission.com href=3D"mailto:drudy@xmission.com">Dean = Rudy</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 05, = 2003 9:47=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Colter = and=20 Yellowstone</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>John - <BR><BR>An interesting interpretation = of=20 Colter's route. Thanks for taking the time to post = it.<BR><BR>For=20 everybody's reference, Clark's manuscript map can be viewed at:<BR><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/haines1/images/ieem1.j= pg"=20 = eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/haines1/ima= ges/ieem1.jpg</A><BR><BR>A=20 question:<BR>On Clark's (manuscript) map, it shows Colter's route = being along=20 the west shore of Lake Eustis (Yellowstone), then circling east around = the=20 north end of the lake then following the large river at the outlet = until he=20 forded the river where he noted "hot springs brimstone". Was = there a=20 typo in your route description, or do you believe Clark got that = wrong? =20 If Colter's route was between the Lake and the Absorokas, why would he = need to=20 ford the Yellowstone to go up the Lamar?<BR><BR>regards,<BR>Dean=20 Rudy<BR><BR>At 07:03 PM 2/5/03 -0700, you wrote: <BR><FONT = face=3Darial size=3D2> <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">Ho, the list,</FONT><BR><FONT=20 size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Darial size=3D2>Well, Crazy, = I'm partly to=20 blame since some of my articles and books on early mapping and = exploration=20 of the Rockies have given a different interpretation of Clark's map = than you=20 indicate. In fact, Clark's map proves my thesis about Colter's route = rather=20 than the other way around--but you have to use Clark's manuscript = rather=20 than the published edition.</FONT><BR><FONT = size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT=20 face=3Darial size=3D2>Let me begin by saying that I grew up in the = Cody area,=20 worked for the Forest Service in Dubois, in the Wind River valley, = and know=20 the area "like the back of my hand." Clark's 1810 map (the = manuscript=20 version--not the engraved published version) shows Colter's route as = staying=20 east of the Continental Divide. The lake that most = historians have=20 assumed is Jackson Lake on the map (yes, there was a lake there--the = present=20 dam has just made it bigger) is not Jackson Lake at all but Brooks = Lake just=20 east of the Continental Divide at Togwotee Pass. Clark's map clearly = shows=20 this lake as the source of the Wind River/Big Horn and clearly shows = the=20 mountains dividing the Wind River drainage from the "Lewis's River" = or Snake=20 drainage as west of the lake--a pretty darn good rendition of the = geography=20 of the upper Wind River. The map does not show the Tetons or any = other=20 recognizable features west of the Continental Divide. So: Biddle = Lake is not=20 Jackson Lake but Brooks Lake and Lake Eustis is, as you indicate = Yellowstone=20 Lake.</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Darial = size=3D2>We=20 know for a fact that the thermal activity noted by Colter was in the = vicinity of Cody, Wyoming since a manuscript map drawn by Clark from = sketches by both Colter and George Drouillard render the geography = of the=20 Cody area perfectly: the South Fork and North Fork of the Shoshone = coming=20 together west of the canyon, Heart Mountain to the north of the = river, and=20 "boiling springs" to the east of the Shoshone Canyon--right where = the Cody=20 Stampede rodeo grounds now sit. In fact, across the highway from the = rodeo=20 grounds is an inactive geyser cone with travertine deposits recent = enough to=20 suggest that it was active when Colter was there and he probably saw = an=20 eruption since he described it to Clark. The Demaris Hot = Springs are in=20 the same area and, although less active now, were active enough when = I was a=20 boy in the 40s and 50s to attract tourists to "take the=20 waters."</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT = face=3Darial=20 size=3D2>Here is my interpretation of Colter's route, based on 35 = years of=20 study: from Lisa's fort at the mouth of the Big Horn, across the = Pryor=20 Mountains to the Clark's Fork of the Yellowstone, possibly up the = Clark's=20 Fork into the Sunlight Basin and then back out to the area just = south of=20 where the Clark's Fork comes out of the mountains. From there, = Colter headed=20 south, crossed the low drainage divide to the Shoshone with Heart = Mountain=20 on his left. He spent some time in the Cody area, probably didn't go = through=20 the canyon but around the southern end of Cedar Mountain to the = junction of=20 the South and North Forks of the Shoshone. He may have tried to go = up the=20 South Fork in search of a route to the south but was probably = stymied by the=20 terrain and the snow. (Remember he was on foot and traveling in=20 January-February.) The mountains on the south side of the southern = branch of=20 the Shoshone rise almost vertically from the valley floor--not = something=20 that any reasonable man would have tried to scale in mid-winter. = I've=20 crossed several of the passes between the Shoshone drainage and the = Wind=20 River drainage in this area and on most of them, got off my horse = and led=20 her rather than staying aboard--and I'm not afraid of heights!. So = Colter=20 probably came back down the South Fork, around the southern end of = Carter=20 Mountain, south across the Greybull River (just west of Meteetsee, = Wyoming,=20 and then across a low pass in the Owl Creek Mountains west of = Thermopolis,=20 Wyoming to the Wind River (if he'd gone through the Wind River = Canyon, he=20 surely would have noted it when he conveyed information to Clark). = He=20 traveled up the Wind River to its source in Brooks Lake, then turned = north=20 along the eastern base of the mountains (remember the steep cliffs = in the=20 movie "Mountain Man"?--those are the mountains west of Brooks Lake) = through=20 Turpin Meadows and into what is now Yellowstone. He probably skirted = Yellowstone Lake on the east, staying between the lake and the = Absarokas,=20 forded the river at the traditional Shoshone crossing downstream = from the=20 Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone (again, there is no evidence that he = saw the=20 Grand Canyon because that feature doesn't appear on Clark's map = either). In=20 the vicinity of the junction of the Yellowstone and Lamar, he fell = in with a=20 group of Bannock Shoshones, heading for the buffalo hunting grounds = of the=20 Great Plains. Traveling with the Indians, he crossed between the = Lamar River=20 drainage and the Clark's Fork drainage over what we now call = "Colter's=20 Pass"--near present-day Cooke City, Montana--and down the Clark's = Fork=20 through the Sunlight Basin country, probably crossing over Dead = Indian Hill=20 (just like the Nez Perce would do 70 years later in their flight = from the US=20 Army), to the Shoshone River and down the Shoshone to its junction = with the=20 Big Horn and down the Big Horn to Lisa's fort.</FONT><BR><FONT=20 size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Darial size=3D2>Let me stress = that this is=20 the only route that is consistent with the information presented on = Clark's=20 1810 manuscript map, and the Clark map of the Big Horn Basin drawn = from=20 information provided by Colter and Droulliard. Unfortunately, in = producing=20 the engraving for the 1814 published edition of Clark's map, Samuel = Lewis=20 (the engraver and no relation to Meriwether) misread some of Clark's = manuscript and showed Colter's route crossing the Continental Divide = all=20 right and then turning and recrossing into the Yellowstone drainage. = What=20 river was Colter on, according to the published map, when he crossed = the=20 Divide just west of the Wind River? Why the Rio del Norte, of = course--and=20 that's the term used by Clark and others to describe the Rio Grande! = For=20 sure, according to the 1814 map, Colter was not on the Snake--and he = wasn't=20 on the Snake according to Clark's manuscript either.</FONT><BR><FONT = size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Darial size=3D2>One more = comment: at the=20 Teton N.P. headquarters at Moose, there is a rock roughly carved = into the=20 shape of a man's head with the name "J. Colter" inscribed on it. = This rock=20 was turned up in a farmer's field in Idaho, west of Teton Pass and = the Teton=20 Range in the 1930s and has been used as proof that Colter was in = Jackson's=20 Hole, crossed Teton Pass, and--for reasons that no one has ever been = able to=20 explain--spent precious time carving a rock into the shape of a = man's head=20 and inscribing his name into it. There are several things wrong with = this=20 piece of evidence: first, why in the world would Colter ever have = done such=20 a thing?; second, Colter couldn't read or write--even his own name = (in the=20 Lewis and Clark Expedition records, he's made a mark next to a = signature=20 obviously written by Lewis); third, a letter from a soldier = accompanying the=20 Hayden expedition into Yellowstone and the Tetons in 1872 describes = how this=20 soldier "hoaxed" others by carving the names of early explorers on = rocks,=20 trees, etc.</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT = face=3Darial=20 size=3D2>If you want a reading list, please contact me off-list as = this=20 message is already far too long.</FONT><BR><FONT=20 size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Darial size=3D2>Watch the=20 skyline.</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT = face=3Darial=20 size=3D2>John</FONT><BR><FONT size=3D3> <BR>Dr. John L. = Allen<BR>2703=20 Leslie Court<BR>Laramie, WY 82072-2979<BR>Phone: (307) = 742-0883<BR>e-mail:=20 <A = href=3D"mailto:jlallen@wyoming.com">jlallen@wyoming.com</A></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DL> <DD>----- Original Message -----=20 <DD>From:</B> <A = href=3D"mailto:GazeingCyot@cs.com">GazeingCyot@cs.com</A>=20 <DD>To:</B> <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 <DD>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:01 AM=20 <DD>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Colter and Yellowstone<BR><BR><FONT = face=3Darial size=3D2> <DD>Hello in the camps=20 <DD>I've got a question for ya all.=20 <DD>I have read that Colter did not acutely enter Yellowstone = and the=20 only hot spring that he found were over by Cody that is where = Colter's=20 Hell is. But It is assumed Colter told Clark of the things he = had seen=20 in his years of travel as a trapper, as the map that appeared in = Nicholas Biddle's 1814 version of the Lewis and Clark journals = reflects=20 Colter's knowledge." this map shows Colter's rout coming from = west of=20 the Tetons, going along the west shore of Lake Biddle (Jackson = Lake) and=20 proceeding to the north, to Lake Eustis (Yellowstone Lake), = traversing=20 north along the west short of that, then heading east when he = gets to=20 the north end of the lake. He proceeds NE along the = Yellowstone=20 River, fording the river at some hot springs. This rout would = have took=20 him right by some of the thermal activity in Yellowstone and = seem to be=20 in well in to Yellowstone. <BR><BR> <DD>The question is where did this notion come from that Colter = did not=20 enter or discover Yellowstone. I have read it some where but for = the=20 life of me I cannot remember where or the reasoning be hind it. = That he=20 only made it to Cody and Colter's hell that is there and move = south of=20 the Lake. Am I up in the night or is there some proof out there = that=20 proves he did not enter Yellowstone and disproves Clarks maps? I = thought=20 someone out there could shed some light on this for me.=20 <DD>See ya on the Trail=20 <DD>Crazy Cyot <BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT></DD></DL></BLOCKQUOTE> <DL></DL>---------------------- hist_text list info:=20 http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html=20 </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2CD6E.98FB7C30-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" <busterize@oldwest.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Sorry, Beaverboy Date: 06 Feb 2003 15:19:56 -0700 Despite the media picturing authors as all rich and famous, the majority of us cannot always afford to go flying (or even driving) off to the exotic locales we want to write about. Most writers are poorly paid unless your name is Stephen King. I have been in the journalism business since the mid-1960s, trained hard and long on newspapers before -- gasp -- computers. I have been an editor, typesetter, proofreader and author, and have learned how to research and dig out information -- in libraries, museums, through organizations that deal with the subject matter I am researching. Plus many, many personal interviews. I've had my work published in national magazines, etc. Now that I have begun writing novels (and, also non fiction) I have reams of research books on the fur trade, journals and diaries -- but surprise -- this list is also considered research because many of you have been fortunate enough to be able to go out there and trap, camp and live as close as possible to those days. Something I, and millions of others who enjoy reading novels, have not. It's your choice not to read novels. But no need to badmouth the many who do. Geri ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sorry, Geri Date: 06 Feb 2003 18:34:13 -0700 (MST) Calling novel readers romantics should not be considered badmouthing. I just don't understand how a writer can ask the list something like,"Hey I'm getting a book published on the fur trade and I was wondering how do you load a gun anyway?" or some other very basic question. It makes a guy wonder how accurate the rest of the book is. Artist can be just as bad. I have a nice Clymer print given to me on my wall. It is of trappers dancing around a campfire. Nice print except for one major flaw. All the hooped beaver are solid leather, no eyes, no ear, no leg holes, nothing. Big flaw. This can only be due to lack of the most basic research on Clymer's part or he just didn't care about putting the detail in. Either way it ruins the whole print for the discriminating eye. Not a big deal if you don't care about details or facts. I have nothing against people who read novels, I get a kick out of you guys cause, your romantics. If a novel is made into a movie I might even rent it but at least I will only have squandered ninety minutes of my life that way. Just my opinion, beaverboy > Despite the media picturing authors as all rich and famous, the > majority of us cannot always afford to go flying (or even driving) off > to the exotic locales we want to write about. Most writers are poorly > paid unless your name is Stephen King. I have been in the journalism > business since the mid-1960s, trained hard and long on newspapers > before -- gasp -- computers. I have been an editor, typesetter, > proofreader and author, and have learned how to research and dig out > information -- in libraries, museums, through organizations that deal > with the subject matter I am researching. Plus many, many personal > interviews. > list is also considered research because many of you have been > fortunate enough to be able to go out there and trap, camp and live as > close as possible to those days. Something I, and millions of others > who enjoy reading novels, have not. > > It's your choice not to read novels. But no need to badmouth the many > who do. > > Geri > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sorry, Geri Date: 06 Feb 2003 18:19:59 -0800 beaverboy, I can't say I felt you were way out of line and really bad mouthing folks cause they like to read novels or more correctly, fiction. It was obvious to me that you were stating your considered opinion. And I certainly understand what it's like to have a Clymer print and know the beaver pelts are wrong. Still they are beautiful paintings, my wife's aunt is related and she has several originals hanging in her house across town from me. I've heard that Clymer and his wife did a lot of research to make their paintings as accurate as could be without actually having been there and for the most part he did a good job. For a long time his paintings were the standard for western art of that era. You of course are aware that Miller and other contemporary artists "doctored" up their paintings from their original field sketches? Does that take anything away from their artistry or even their value to us? Only if you don't take that into consideration when you work up your outfit I suppose. Speaking of which........I've been in the muzzle loading game for a long time and I've been doing the mt. man thing for a long time and I have discarded a lot of stuff cause I found out it wasn't "proper" and that was important to me. Even though I am now "more" correct I have gotten away from critiquing others and their gear just cause it ain't polite and cause I may be wrong and cause I was there once too. You don't like novels cause they aren't fact. You don't like Clymer's paintings cause they have flaws. The big question? Is your gear 100% perfect? Do you know all the answers pertaining to the Mt. Man or any history your interested in, how they did things, dressed, lived, ate? Are you sure? Or is part of your stuff really fiction? YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sorry, Geri Date: 06 Feb 2003 21:10:59 -0800 Capt Lahti my friend... Good to see you're still out there and willing to share your thoughts. As usual, I happen to agree with what you said and how you said it. I have occasionally been known to mis-speak my opinion (well, once anyway) so I am slowing learning I'm often better off saying nothing at all. Cold here along the Wasatch tonight, hope all my brothers are weathering well! Teton On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:19:59 -0800 "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> writes: > beaverboy, > > I can't say I felt you were way out of line and really bad mouthing > folks > cause they like to read novels or more correctly, fiction. It was > obvious to > me that you were stating your considered opinion. And I certainly > understand > what it's like to have a Clymer print and know the beaver pelts are > wrong. > Still they are beautiful paintings, my wife's aunt is related and > she has > several originals hanging in her house across town from me. I've > heard that > Clymer and his wife did a lot of research to make their paintings > as > accurate as could be without actually having been there and for the > most > part he did a good job. For a long time his paintings were the > standard for > western art of that era. > > You of course are aware that Miller and other contemporary artists > "doctored" up their paintings from their original field sketches? > Does that > take anything away from their artistry or even their value to us? > Only if > you don't take that into consideration when you work up your outfit > I > suppose. > > Speaking of which........I've been in the muzzle loading game for a > long > time and I've been doing the mt. man thing for a long time and I > have > discarded a lot of stuff cause I found out it wasn't "proper" and > that was > important to me. Even though I am now "more" correct I have gotten > away from > critiquing others and their gear just cause it ain't polite and > cause I may > be wrong and cause I was there once too. > > You don't like novels cause they aren't fact. You don't like > Clymer's > paintings cause they have flaws. The big question? Is your gear > 100% > perfect? Do you know all the answers pertaining to the Mt. Man or > any > history your interested in, how they did things, dressed, lived, > ate? Are > you sure? Or is part of your stuff really fiction? > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > > --------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600 Date: 06 Feb 2003 22:19:01 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2CE36.199583A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Teton Todd wrote: Cold here along the Wasatch tonight, hope all my brothers are weathering well! Well, Todd, you be the judge. Down here in north Texas....where we had = 79 degrees not five days ago....the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade are gathering = in a cedar brake east of Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low = 20's and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for spice. I know = that kind of weather makes you cold country folks think spring has = arrived early, but us thin blooded Texians are going to have to sit = around fragrant cedar fires with our brothers and sip overpriced likker = all weekend. If you can make it to DFW airport by noon Friday I'll pick = you up and lend you a bedroll. =20 Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2CE36.199583A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Teton Todd = wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Cold here along the Wasatch tonight, = hope all=20 my brothers are weathering<BR>well!<BR></FONT><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman"></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Well, Todd, you be the = judge. =20 Down here in north Texas....where we had 79 degrees not five = days=20 ago....the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade are gathering in a cedar brake east of = Dallas=20 for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low 20's and snow, with maybe a = little sleet=20 thrown in for spice. I know that kind of weather makes = you cold=20 country folks think spring has arrived early, but us thin blooded = Texians=20 are going to have to sit around fragrant cedar fires with our=20 brothers and sip overpriced likker all weekend. If = you can=20 make it to DFW airport by noon Friday I'll pick you up and = lend you a=20 bedroll. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney = Ratcliff<BR></FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net"><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 size=3D4>lanneyratcliff@charter.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3D"Times = New Roman"=20 size=3D4>______________________________________________________________<B= R>Aux=20 Aliments du Pays<BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01C2CE36.199583A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600 Date: 06 Feb 2003 22:42:04 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_34cd.0e44.6869 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lanney, Thanks for the invite Big Feller. Spending time around the fire with you hosses would be a pleasure I'm sure. Cold is cold wherever you measure it. Have a good one my friend! Teton On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 22:19:01 -0700 "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> writes: Teton Todd wrote: Cold here along the Wasatch tonight, hope all my brothers are weathering well! Well, Todd, you be the judge. Down here in north Texas....where we had 79 degrees not five days ago....the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade are gathering in a cedar brake east of Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low 20's and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for spice. I know that kind of weather makes you cold country folks think spring has arrived early, but us thin blooded Texians are going to have to sit around fragrant cedar fires with our brothers and sip overpriced likker all weekend. If you can make it to DFW airport by noon Friday I'll pick you up and lend you a bedroll. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ----__JNP_000_34cd.0e44.6869 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Lanney,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the invite Big Feller. Spending time around the fire with = you=20 hosses would be a pleasure I'm sure. Cold is cold wherever you measure it. = Have=20 a good one my friend!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Teton</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 22:19:01 -0700 "Lanney Ratcliff" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>&= gt;=20 writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: = 10px"> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Teton Todd wrote:</FONT></= DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Cold here along the Wasatch tonight, = hope=20 all my brothers are weathering<BR>well!<BR></FONT><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman"></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Well, Todd, you be the judge= . =20 Down here in north Texas....where we had 79 degrees not five = days=20 ago....the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade are gathering in a cedar brake east of= =20 Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low 20's and snow, with maybe = a=20 little sleet thrown in for spice. I know that kind of weather = makes=20 you cold country folks think spring has arrived early, but us = thin=20 blooded Texians are going to have to sit around fragrant cedar = fires=20 with our brothers and sip overpriced likker all weekend.&= nbsp;=20 If you can make it to DFW airport by noon Friday I'll pick you = up=20 and lend you a bedroll. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR></= FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"= =20 size=3D4>lanneyratcliff@charter.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New= Roman"=20 size=3D4>______________________________________________________________<= BR>Aux=20 Aliments du Pays<BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ----__JNP_000_34cd.0e44.6869-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 06 Feb 2003 22:54:26 -0800 Hello the camp, Hi beaverboy. Not trying to start a controversy but this is an excerpt form one of your previous posts. >I'm a poor trapper so this will be my one and only flintlock rifle so I need to make the right choice. I appreciate your advice and knowledge and thank you in advance. beaverboy< This is all I was trying to do when I asked for information about the handling of beaver pelts after they were dressed. Get the advice and knowledge that I knew was on this list. The funny part is I posted because of your post about selling your pelts. I figured if anyone knew about beaver pelts it would be you. Anyway it turned out I didn't have to re-write about that. My original description was correct. However, your point and those of others on the list about the time line was well taken. I've started the re-write on that. It entails a little more than I first thought because I have to catch a bunch of little details....like the .36 Patterson Colt is no longer a "proteetype" but is now a regular run manufacture pistol. Although this is a novel of fiction, I would like it to be as historically correct as I can make it. By the way, I didn't consider your post as badmouthing or bashing. Just your opinion. Writer's usually get kinda thick skinned or they don't stay writer's long. I was surprised about your not liking to read novels of the fur trade (although mine isn't a novel of the fur trade, the fur trade does play a significant part in it. It's a novel of a family settling the west, and indian raid, and a young man's search for his kidnapped sister.) On the other hand I don't like to read science fiction. Can't make heads or tails of it. Happy Trails and Good Trapping Ben ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 6:12 PM > Dear List, > I sold my beaver pelts and did better than I expected thus I am able > to move up in the world from fusee to rifle! Or at least move out in range. > Does anyone have any comments concerning Pecatonica River flintlock > rifle kits? Or any other high quality kits. I'm looking for a good .54 > swamped barrel rifle kit. Pecatonica River looks pretty good to me. > I've also heard that a 1-72" or 1-80" twist is the best for the .54 > with heavy powder loads (100-120grs). Any comments about that? > I'm a poor trapper so this will be my one and only flintlock rifle so > I need to make the right choice. > I appreciate your advice and knowledge and thank you in advance. > beaverboy > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sorry, Geri and Colters a liar Date: 06 Feb 2003 23:06:48 -0700 (MST) > You don't like novels cause they aren't fact. You don't like Clymer's > paintings cause they have flaws. The big question? Is your gear 100% > perfect? Do you know all the answers pertaining to the Mt. Man or any > history your interested in, how they did things, dressed, lived, ate? > Are you sure? Or is part of your stuff really fiction? The answers to your questions are all no, but I'm not writing a book or selling paintings on the subject either. That is my whole point, once you start selling artwork and articles or books on the subject you should be as accurate as possible and not have obvious oversights in the details. I don't care much how other primitive trekers dress, camp, or what they say but put it in print or give a lecture on the subject and it better be accurate. Writers and lecturers have thick skin, they're used to having their work scrutinized. Another interesting lecturer going around is a Blackfoot Indian from up here in Browning, Montana. I believe his name is Curly Bear something. I don't want to get his name wrong. Anyway his big thing is disputing the whole Colter Run theory. He basically says Colter was a liar and didn't out run the BLackfeet like he said he did. "No white man could EVER out run a Blackfoot!" he says. Well, I'm sorry, Colter was never known to be a braggart or liar and was held in high esteem by both Captain Lewis & Clark. I think I might believe the two captains over someone who did not know the man. I tried to talk to him after one of his lectures and he wouldn't even speak with us. Just another case of rewriting history. Life is too short to argue over small things but history should be as accurate as possible. beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pecatonica Kits and .54 twists Date: 06 Feb 2003 23:44:27 -0700 (MST) Ben wrote, > This is all I was trying to do when I asked for information about the > handling of beaver pelts after they were dressed. Get the advice and > knowledge that I knew was on this list. The funny part is I posted > because of your post about selling your pelts. I figured if anyone > knew about beaver pelts it would be you. Anyway it turned out I > didn't have to re-write about that. My original description was > correct. Capt. wrote concerning beaver hides, Did they tan them? No time Ben. > Salt them down? No salt. They'd have to do something to preserve the > skin......but what? Just scrape off the fat and meat and air dry till the hide turns to rawhide. Other than bugs, the hide will last forever, likewise the fur (baring any bugs of course). Speaking of the original posts on the subject. Capt wrote that dry hides will last forever. No hide will last forever especially exposed to the enivoriment. Bugs, heat, moisture, mildew, direct sunlight, gnawing rodents and scavengers can all destroy a dried pelt quickly. Leaving pelts in an unguarded cache was the last time many pelts were ever seen. I couldn't even imagine leaving some hard earned pelts buried in the earth. Tanned pelts last much longer (still not forever) but they did not need to be tanned for the hat trade so why work harder than you have to. However many tanned beaver hides were purchased for the hat trade from indians. No time to tan them? The mountain men had more time than anything didn't they? If the pelts were required by the buyer to be tanned the trappers would have found the time to tan them. Wasn't necessary, so no need to do it. Just as the willow hoops were never peeled of the bark, no need to. No salt? Capt. how can you say they had no salt? I know they had salt, at least when near the ocean or soon after leaving a fort or settlement they just weren't going to waste it on drying or preserving pelts. I bet salt may have been used in the east near the big salt mines but I don't know that for sure. Lewis & Clarks men didn't spend weeks boiling sea water around the clock for salt to put on a hide or pelt unless they were going to eat that pelt. Anyway Ben, no hard feelings at all. Never meant there to be any hard feelings with anyone. I just have always found the truth to be much more interesting than fiction. Just my opinion from around the campfire. beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: handling of beaver pelts Date: 07 Feb 2003 04:19:41 EST --part1_147.9d5e84b.2b74d42d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beaverboy Just in the sprit of being around the campfire I would like to point out a couple of things here. I know you be a trappin fool and have sent your share of traps and then some. But you have made some statements that I'll just have to bring to your attention. You said: I have a nice Clymer print given to me on my wall. It is of trappers dancing around a campfire. Nice print except for one major flaw. All the hooped beaver are solid leather, no eyes, no ear, no leg holes, nothing. Big flaw. As for leg holes don't you sew yours up or tack them closed when drying. Tell the truth what always bothered me about this picture was the crock jug in it, fringed capote and the war shirt more then lack of detail on the hides. You said: . Leaving pelts in an unguarded cache was the last time many pelts were ever seen. I couldn't even imagine leaving some hard earned pelts buried in the earth. To answer that I give you this from a Letter from William H. Ashley to Gen. Henry Atkinson this was not a one time deal but was done a lot in the fur trade. On the 2nd day of july, I set out on my way homewards with 50 men, 25 of whom were to accompany me to a navigable point of the Big Horn river, thence to return with the horses employed in the transportation of the furs. I had forty-five packs of beaver cached a few miles east of our direct route. I took with me 20 men, passed by the place, raised the cache, and proceeded in a direction to join the other party, but, previous to joining them, I was twice attacked by Indians first by a party of Blackfeet about 60 in number Well, that is what they did the caches were made to try and protect the hides from gnawing rodents and scavengers and moisture which causes mildew. They where made and covered in secrecy and all evidence of them covered up to try and protect them from being found and robed and yes they did lose some things that were cached by someone else finding them or things getting wet but it was better then packing them all over the country with them. As for salt your right there was several places here in the Rockies where they could get salt and they did not have to go all the away to the ocean to get it. Salt Lake for one, in Star Valley, Wyoming there are several creeks that come in to the salt river that was used to make salt to name just a couple. Did they use it for hides your right, hell no it was to much work just to get enough for there meat! Any way I just had to through my two cents in when you said I couldn't even imagine leaving some hard earned pelts buried in the earth. Cause that is what they did as hard as it sounds on the hides. For me a novel needs to be written in a way that shows the writer knows what they are talking about to hold my intrust. That is why I like reading Journals and first hand accounts more. But if a writer comes to this list and sits in and asks questions we should be flattered and try to help them if we can to make there works better is the way I see it. See down the trail Crazy Cyot --part1_147.9d5e84b.2b74d42d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Beaverboy <BR>Just in the sprit of being around the campfire I would like to point out= a couple of things here. I know you be a trappin fool and have sent your sh= are of traps and then some. But you have made some statements that I'll just= have to bring to your attention. <BR>You said: <BR>I have a nice Clymer print given to me on my <BR>wall. It is of trappers dancing around a campfire. Nice print except for <BR>one major flaw. All the hooped beaver are solid leather, no eyes, no ear= , <BR>no leg holes, nothing. Big flaw.=20 <BR> <BR> As for leg holes don't you sew yours up or tack them closed when drying= . Tell the truth what always bothered me about this picture was the crock ju= g in it, fringed capote and the war shirt more then lack of detail on the hi= des.=20 <BR> <BR>You said: <BR>. Leaving pelts in an unguarded cache was the last time many pelts were=20= ever seen. I <BR>couldn't even imagine leaving some hard earned pelts buried in the earth= . <BR>=20 <BR> <BR>To answer that I give you this from a Letter from William H. Ashley to G= en. Henry Atkinson this was not a one time deal but was done a lot in the fu= r trade. <BR> <BR>On the 2nd day of july, I set out on my way homewards with 50 men, 25 of= whom were to accompany me to a navigable point of the Big Horn river, thenc= e to return with the horses employed in the transportation of the furs. I ha= d forty-five packs of beaver cached a few miles east of our direct route. I=20= took with me 20 men, passed by the place, raised the cache, and proceeded in= a direction to join the other party, but, previous to joining them, I was t= wice attacked by Indians first by a party of Blackfeet about 60 in number <BR> <BR>Well, that is what they did the caches were made to try and protect the=20= hides from gnawing rodents and scavengers and moisture which causes mildew.= They where made and covered in secrecy and all evidence of them covered up=20= to try and protect them from being found and robed and yes they did lose som= e things that were cached by someone else finding them or things getting wet= but it was better then packing them all over the country with them. <BR> <BR>As for salt your right there was several places here in the Rockies wher= e they could get salt and they did not have to go all the away to the ocean=20= to get it. Salt Lake for one, in Star Valley, Wyoming there are several cree= ks that come in to the salt river that was used to make salt to name just a=20= couple. Did they use it for hides your right, hell no it was to much work ju= st to get enough for there meat! <BR> <BR>Any way I just had to through my two cents in when you said I couldn't e= ven imagine leaving some hard earned pelts buried in the earth. Cause=20= that is what they did as hard as it sounds on the hides. <BR> <BR>For me a novel needs to be written in a way that shows the writer knows=20= what they are talking about to hold my intrust. That is why I like reading J= ournals and first hand accounts more. But if a writer comes to this list and= sits in and asks questions we should be flattered and try to help them if w= e can to make there works better is the way I see it. <BR>See down the trail=20 <BR>Crazy Cyot <BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_147.9d5e84b.2b74d42d_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600 Date: 07 Feb 2003 09:43:55 EST --part1_79.940bf1a.2b75202b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/6, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes: << ----( stuff deleted )---- the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade are gathering in a cedar brake east of Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low 20's and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for spice. ----( stuff deleted )---- >> Lanney, As an over the road truck driver, I had the opportunity to drive in all 48 continental states in bad weather. When you hit it, you just keep on truckin', and I did. Until I hit one inch of snow at rush hour in Dallas. Nothing ever scared the crap outta me like that did. I figger you boys will be better off in that cedar break outside of Dallas!!!!! Just an observation. ;-) Longshot --part1_79.940bf1a.2b75202b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 2/6, lanneyratcliff@charter.net wri= tes: <BR> <BR><< </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE= =3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">----( stuff deleted )----</FONT><FONT COLOR= =3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> </FONT= ><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman"= LANG=3D"0">the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade are gathering in a cedar brake east o= f Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low 20's and snow, with maybe a= little sleet thrown in for spice. ----( stuff deleted )---- >></FONT>= <FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman"=20= LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar= ial" LANG=3D"0">Lanney, <BR> <BR> As an over the road truck driver, I had the opportunity to=20= drive in all 48 continental states in bad weather. When you hit it, yo= u just keep on truckin', and I did. Until I hit one inch of snow at ru= sh hour in Dallas. Nothing ever scared the crap outta me like that did= . I figger you boys will be better off in that cedar break outside of=20= Dallas!!!!! Just an observation. ;-) <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D5 FACE=3D"BATAVIA" LANG=3D"0">L</= FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D4 FACE=3D"BATAVIA" LANG=3D"0">ongshot</= FONT></HTML> --part1_79.940bf1a.2b75202b_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600 Date: 07 Feb 2003 19:58:31 -0700 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3127492711_108629_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 2/7/03 7:43 AM, LODGEPOLE@aol.com at LODGEPOLE@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/6, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes: << ----( stuff deleted )---- the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade are gathering in a cedar brake east of Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low 20's and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for spice. ----( stuff deleted )---- >> Lanney, As an over the road truck driver, I had the opportunity to drive in all 48 continental states in bad weather. When you hit it, you just keep on truckin', and I did. Until I hit one inch of snow at rush hour in Dallas. Nothing ever scared the crap outta me like that did. I figger you boys will be better off in that cedar break outside of Dallas!!!!! Just an observation. ;-) Longshot Lanney, Checking out the window this morning, the sun hasen't come over the mountain peaks on the Wasatch front yet, The sky is clear and bright blue there is not even a breeze but the temperature is "0" and we will only get to about "27" for the high today. 90 days from today it will be in the 80's and 90's and you will be clost to the 100's. You boys enjoy the camp and the joy of living the way Bridger and the boy's did. Ole --MS_Mac_OE_3127492711_108629_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> on 2/7/03 7:43 AM, LODGEPOLE@aol.com at LODGEPOLE@aol.com wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">In a message dated 2/6, lanne= yratcliff@charter.net writes: <BR> <BR> << </FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman">----( st= uff deleted )----</FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"> </FONT></F= ONT><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman">the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade a= re gathering in a cedar brake east of Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecas= t of low 20's and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for spice. ----(= stuff deleted )---- >></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman"> <BR= > <BR> </FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Lanney, <BR> <BR> As an over the road truck driver, I had the opportunity to dri= ve in all 48 continental states in bad weather. When you hit it, you j= ust keep on truckin', and I did. Until I hit one inch of snow at rush = hour in Dallas. Nothing ever scared the crap outta me like that did. &= nbsp;I figger you boys will be better off in that cedar break outside of Dal= las!!!!! Just an observation. ;-) <BR> <BR> </FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"5">L</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"4">ongshot</FONT> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Lanney,<BR> Checking out the window this morning, the sun hasen't come over the mountai= n peaks on the Wasatch front yet, The sky is clear and bright blue there is = not even a breeze but the temperature is "0" and we will only get = to about "27" for the high today. 90 days from today it will be in= the 80's and 90's and you will be clost to the 100's. You boys enjoy = the camp and the joy of living the way Bridger and the boy's did.<BR> Ole </BODY> </HTML> --MS_Mac_OE_3127492711_108629_MIME_Part-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600 Date: 07 Feb 2003 09:44:26 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01C2CE8D.8085FB10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, the drivers here are divided into about three groups....those who = don't have a clue how to drive in that stuff (the vast majority), those = who grew up driving in it but forgot how when they moved down here and = those who know how to drive in it but choose to keep off the roads due = to the other two groups. I lived for several years in the Missouri = Ozarks and drove several winters in the snow and ice up there so I just = hunker down whenever possible and watch the fender-benders on the TV = news. I'm looking forward to those cedar fires, though, so I'm heading = out. Lanney ----- Original Message -----=20 From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:43 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600 In a message dated 2/6, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes:=20 << ----( stuff deleted )---- the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade are gathering = in a cedar brake east of Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low = 20's and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for spice. ----( = stuff deleted )---- >>=20 Lanney,=20 As an over the road truck driver, I had the opportunity to drive in = all 48 continental states in bad weather. When you hit it, you just = keep on truckin', and I did. Until I hit one inch of snow at rush hour = in Dallas. Nothing ever scared the crap outta me like that did. I = figger you boys will be better off in that cedar break outside of = Dallas!!!!! Just an observation. ;-)=20 Longshot ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01C2CE8D.8085FB10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Yeah, the drivers here are = divided into=20 about three groups....those who don't have a clue how to drive in that = stuff=20 (the vast majority), those who grew up driving in it but forgot how when = they=20 moved down here and those who know how to drive in it but choose to keep = off the=20 roads due to the other two groups. I lived for several years in = the=20 Missouri Ozarks and drove several winters in the snow and ice up there = so I just=20 hunker down whenever possible and watch the fender-benders on the TV = news. =20 I'm looking forward to those cedar fires, though, so I'm heading=20 out.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DLODGEPOLE@aol.com=20 href=3D"mailto:LODGEPOLE@aol.com">LODGEPOLE@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 07, 2003 = 8:43=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Date: = Thu, 6 Feb=20 2003 23:18:47 -0600</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = face=3DArial size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">In a message dated 2/6, <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= =20 writes: <BR><BR><< </FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SERIF">----( stuff deleted = )----</FONT><FONT=20 lang=3D0 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"> = </FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 size=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SERIF">the = Texas/Oklahoma=20 Brigade are gathering in a cedar brake east of Dallas for a 4 day camp = with a=20 forecast of low 20's and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for = spice.=20 ----( stuff deleted )---- >></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Times = New Roman"=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF"> <BR><BR></FONT><FONT = lang=3D0 face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Lanney, = <BR><BR> As an over=20 the road truck driver, I had the opportunity to drive in all 48 = continental=20 states in bad weather. When you hit it, you just keep on = truckin', and I=20 did. Until I hit one inch of snow at rush hour in Dallas. = Nothing=20 ever scared the crap outta me like that did. I figger you boys = will be=20 better off in that cedar break outside of Dallas!!!!! = Just=20 an observation. ;-) <BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DBATAVIA = color=3D#000000 size=3D5>L</FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DBATAVIA = color=3D#000000=20 size=3D4>ongshot</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01C2CE8D.8085FB10-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600 Date: 07 Feb 2003 09:03:11 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2CE87.BD402680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Longshot, The drivers here in Utah drive in snow enough to know how (usually, been = darn dry around here lately) but it seems like they figure if they go = faster they'll get there quicker and keep 'em off those icy roads. = Nothing scares me more than driving in to SLC in the early mornig rush = hour, right after a storm. I guess it's the same where ever you are. Happy truckin' Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600 In a message dated 2/6, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes:=20 << ----( stuff deleted )---- the Texas/Oklahoma Brigade are gathering = in a cedar brake east of Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low = 20's and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for spice. ----( = stuff deleted )---- >>=20 Lanney,=20 As an over the road truck driver, I had the opportunity to drive in = all 48 continental states in bad weather. When you hit it, you just = keep on truckin', and I did. Until I hit one inch of snow at rush hour = in Dallas. Nothing ever scared the crap outta me like that did. I = figger you boys will be better off in that cedar break outside of = Dallas!!!!! Just an observation. ;-)=20 Longshot=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2CE87.BD402680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey Longshot,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The drivers here in Utah drive in snow = enough to=20 know how (usually, been darn dry around here lately) but it seems like = they=20 figure if they go faster they'll get there quicker and keep 'em off = those icy=20 roads. Nothing scares me more than driving in to SLC in the early = mornig=20 rush hour, right after a storm.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I guess it's the same where ever you=20 are.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Happy truckin'</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ben</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DLODGEPOLE@aol.com=20 href=3D"mailto:LODGEPOLE@aol.com">LODGEPOLE@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 07, 2003 = 6:43=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Date: = Thu, 6 Feb=20 2003 23:18:47 -0600</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = face=3DArial size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">In a message dated 2/6, <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= =20 writes: <BR><BR><< </FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Times New = Roman"=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SERIF">----( stuff deleted = )----</FONT><FONT=20 lang=3D0 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"> = </FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 size=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SERIF">the = Texas/Oklahoma=20 Brigade are gathering in a cedar brake east of Dallas for a 4 day camp = with a=20 forecast of low 20's and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for = spice.=20 ----( stuff deleted )---- >></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3D"Times = New Roman"=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF"> <BR><BR></FONT><FONT = lang=3D0 face=3DArial=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Lanney, = <BR><BR> As an over=20 the road truck driver, I had the opportunity to drive in all 48 = continental=20 states in bad weather. When you hit it, you just keep on = truckin', and I=20 did. Until I hit one inch of snow at rush hour in Dallas. = Nothing=20 ever scared the crap outta me like that did. I figger you boys = will be=20 better off in that cedar break outside of Dallas!!!!! = Just=20 an observation. ;-) <BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DBATAVIA = color=3D#000000 size=3D5>L</FONT><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DBATAVIA = color=3D#000000=20 size=3D4>ongshot</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C2CE87.BD402680-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sorry, Geri Date: 07 Feb 2003 08:37:33 -0800 Teton, I'll have you know my friend that yours is the first message this morning I am even attempting to respond to since I smashed my left "point'in" finger trying to load another log of curly maple into the fire box! Dang that hurt! I appreciate your comment and support. My comments certainly weren't meant to "rip" anyone, rather to generate serious personal introspection on how we express ourselves. Gray cold foggy day here in "God's Country". Winter well my friend. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 07 Feb 2003 13:17:38 -0500 (EST) Hello the List! I was just wondering how long one could leave a muzzle loader charged and still expect it to go boom at the right moment? Also any ideas on how long a trappers gun would have been loaded, did he fire it every day or pull the ball and reload in camp or just wait till he fired it to reload? Just Wonder'n. Your Servant, M.A.Smith ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 07 Feb 2003 10:38:31 -0800 Having monitored this list for years, I can recap many considered opinions on this question. As far as one can tell, guns were alwsys kept loaded. Many old "wallhangers" or guns retrieved from barns or attics still have a load when inspected (I have seen hair raising tales of them going off when the modern gunsmith is heating the barrel to release the breech plug). Through personal experience, I can attest that with ordinary care a flintlock may be kept loaded for days if not months and still go off when required. There is some literature on pulling loads when conditions made the charge suspect. One expedition that survived a snow-covered pass in starving conditions found their guns "much out of order from using as walking sticks etc" when they finally encountered game, and the writer (Ferris?) drew his charge, chipped his flint, etc before killing a stray buffalo. In general, using a small feather or cow's knee to keep the touchhole dry, I would keep a load in place rather than risk loss or dampness pulling it out, unless it was clearly soaked. I am sure there will be other reports on this question. Best regards Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:18 AM Hello the List! I was just wondering how long one could leave a muzzle loader charged and still expect it to go boom at the right moment? Also any ideas on how long a trappers gun would have been loaded, did he fire it every day or pull the ball and reload in camp or just wait till he fired it to reload? Just Wonder'n. Your Servant, M.A.Smith ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter <mail4dog@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 23:18:47 -0600 Date: 07 Feb 2003 11:44:35 -0800 (PST) Howdy Lanney! As we say up here in Extreme North Texas-"taint the cold, it's the humidity!" And be careful who you send those DFW invites to-someone may take you up on it! Best to you and yours, Dog --- Lanney Ratcliff <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> wrote: > Yeah, the drivers here are divided into about three > groups....those who don't have a clue how to drive > in that stuff (the vast majority), those who grew up > driving in it but forgot how when they moved down > here and those who know how to drive in it but > choose to keep off the roads due to the other two > groups. I lived for several years in the Missouri > Ozarks and drove several winters in the snow and ice > up there so I just hunker down whenever possible and > watch the fender-benders on the TV news. I'm > looking forward to those cedar fires, though, so I'm > heading out. > Lanney > ----- Original Message ----- > From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 > 23:18:47 -0600 > > > In a message dated 2/6, lanneyratcliff@charter.net > writes: > > << ----( stuff deleted )---- the Texas/Oklahoma > Brigade are gathering in a cedar brake east of > Dallas for a 4 day camp with a forecast of low 20's > and snow, with maybe a little sleet thrown in for > spice. ----( stuff deleted )---- >> > > Lanney, > > As an over the road truck driver, I had the > opportunity to drive in all 48 continental states in > bad weather. When you hit it, you just keep on > truckin', and I did. Until I hit one inch of snow > at rush hour in Dallas. Nothing ever scared the > crap outta me like that did. I figger you boys will > be better off in that cedar break outside of > Dallas!!!!! Just an observation. ;-) > > Longshot __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 07 Feb 2003 16:22:52 -0700 (MST) M.A. I hunt right behind my house so don't have to drive with a loaded muzzleloader thus I can keep it loaded for extended periods. I'm so cheap that when I'm done hunting I tap my priming load back into my priming horn (unless it looks moist). I then leave my loaded fusee in a secure spot in a cool/cold room in my garage. I also stick something like a chunk of plastic bag in the lock and close the cock to avoid any trouble there. You do want to avoid major cold to hot changes on the barrel to avoid condensation. I have left it loaded for over two weeks and had no noticable difference in shooting it. I usually empty it (by shooting) after more than two weeks just to have a fresh load in it. By the way I have knocked out shot loads from my fusee by tapping the barrel heavily on a stump or log to change the load to a ball. Don't tell OSHA about that. One time I did it as five gobblers sat under the shade of a large ponderosa and were looking around wondering what all the thumping noise was! I sneaked to within 70 yards of them and the last bit of cover and they weren't budging to any of my calls. It was the fall season and ball is legal which is why I decided to switch loads. Before I switched to ball however a very large black bear meandered within 60 yards of me! I don't feel very brave with a .20 gage loaded with shot! Anyway the bear moved on, I got a ball in the barrel and promptly missed the gobbler! It was fun though even if it took me an hour to creep within 70 yards of those toms. I'm also surprised how many journal excerpts contain stories of mountain men or trappers shooting their guns off in excitement at finding water or something else. Maybe they were just waiting for a reason to recharge their guns with a fresh load. Beaverboy > Hello the List! > I was just wondering how long > one could leave a muzzle loader charged and still expect it to go boom > at the right moment? > Also any ideas on how long a trappers gun would have been loaded, did > he fire it every > day or pull the ball and reload in camp or just > wait till he fired it to reload? Just Wonder'n. > > Your Servant, > M.A.Smith > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kc16" <kc16@qwest.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 07 Feb 2003 21:05:17 -0800 M.A., I left my .50 cal flinter loaded for over a year once hanging in my gun room at home. When I took it out...it had only a slight hang when fired. Now...up here on the western rockies, we have some dry weather....so low humidity was a key to that being able to happen. I also took some grease and covered the flash hole and then picked it out when I went to fire it. I wouldn't do it again.....maybe. Regards, Blood ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:17 AM > Hello the List! > I was just wondering how long > one could leave a muzzle loader charged and still expect it to go boom > at the right moment? > Also any ideas on how long a trappers gun would have been loaded, did he > fire it every > day or pull the ball and reload in camp or just > wait till he fired it to reload? Just Wonder'n. > > Your Servant, > M.A.Smith > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kc16" <kc16@qwest.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Repeat of a past question Date: 07 Feb 2003 21:11:53 -0800 Klahowya, I know that this information was just recently on the list...but I have to ask it again...because I lost the information. I'm checking out a company in Montana ..... North Star West, Inc. Can anyone give me an opinion on the quality of their kits? I appreciate it. Regards, Blood ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Repeat of a past question Date: 08 Feb 2003 05:39:13 +0000 Blood, I know the new owner personally, very nice guy. We belong to the same club. I know he's just recently taken over the business, adn from what I can see its a nice operation. Teh kits I've handled are complete in the white and totally functional. Don't appear that you'd need to do a bit of filing or chisling. Just a bit of scraping or sanding (I don't like sanding) some browning and a finish coat of shelac or tounge oil. I know if you wern't happy Matt would make it so you were, hes that kinda guy, heck he's from Montana right? Here's the site incase you or somebody else needs it. http://www.northstarwest.com/ flintlocknfur aka "Sean" >From: "kc16" <kc16@qwest.net> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Repeat of a past question >Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 21:11:53 -0800 > >Klahowya, > >I know that this information was just recently on the list...but I have to >ask it again...because I lost the information. I'm checking out a company >in Montana ..... North Star West, Inc. Can anyone give me an opinion on >the >quality of their kits? > >I appreciate it. > >Regards, >Blood > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Repeat of a past question Date: 07 Feb 2003 22:55:36 -0700 (MST) >Well, I'll be danged! I didn't know North Star West moved to Frenchtown! I have a North Star from when they were in Vegas or eastern California and it has been a great gun. Hey, Sean I wonder if they will be at the Alberton shoot as its only 20 miles away or so. beaverboy > Blood, > > I know the new owner personally, very nice guy. We belong to the same > club. I know he's just recently taken over the business, adn from what > I can see its a nice operation. Teh kits I've handled are complete in > the white and totally functional. Don't appear that you'd need to do a > bit of filing or chisling. Just a bit of scraping or sanding (I don't > like sanding) some browning and a finish coat of shelac or tounge oil. > I know if you wern't happy Matt would make it so you were, hes that > kinda guy, heck he's from Montana right? Here's the site incase you or > somebody else needs it. > > http://www.northstarwest.com/ > > flintlocknfur aka "Sean" > > > >>From: "kc16" <kc16@qwest.net> >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>Subject: MtMan-List: Repeat of a past question >>Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 21:11:53 -0800 >> >>Klahowya, >> >>I know that this information was just recently on the list...but I have >>to ask it again...because I lost the information. I'm checking out a >>company in Montana ..... North Star West, Inc. Can anyone give me an >>opinion on the >>quality of their kits? >> >>I appreciate it. >> >>Regards, >>Blood >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Repeat of a past question Date: 08 Feb 2003 06:06:59 +0000 Well seeins he's the Booshway for it this year think It's a good bet. If not his house is just down the road. Probably could go get whatever you need. >From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Repeat of a past question >Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 22:55:36 -0700 (MST) > > >Well, I'll be danged! I didn't know North Star West moved to Frenchtown! >I have a North Star from when they were in Vegas or eastern California and >it has been a great gun. Hey, Sean I wonder if they will be at the >Alberton shoot as its only 20 miles away or so. > beaverboy > > Blood, > > > > I know the new owner personally, very nice guy. We belong to the same > > club. I know he's just recently taken over the business, adn from what > > I can see its a nice operation. Teh kits I've handled are complete in > > the white and totally functional. Don't appear that you'd need to do a > > bit of filing or chisling. Just a bit of scraping or sanding (I don't > > like sanding) some browning and a finish coat of shelac or tounge oil. > > I know if you wern't happy Matt would make it so you were, hes that > > kinda guy, heck he's from Montana right? Here's the site incase you or > > somebody else needs it. > > > > http://www.northstarwest.com/ > > > > flintlocknfur aka "Sean" > > > > > > > >>From: "kc16" <kc16@qwest.net> > >>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >>Subject: MtMan-List: Repeat of a past question > >>Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 21:11:53 -0800 > >> > >>Klahowya, > >> > >>I know that this information was just recently on the list...but I have > >>to ask it again...because I lost the information. I'm checking out a > >>company in Montana ..... North Star West, Inc. Can anyone give me an > >>opinion on the > >>quality of their kits? > >> > >>I appreciate it. > >> > >>Regards, > >>Blood > >> > >> > >>---------------------- > >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Wooden Chair Date: 08 Feb 2003 07:57:58 -0700 (MST) Dear List, I found a nice 2öx12öx12' floating down the Missouri last spring while trapping and let me tell you, they can get pretty heavy when water soaked. Anyway I am going to make a slotted wooden chair for myself out of it to leave at Fort Union for my yearly visits. Can someone that owns a nicely proportioned one tell me what the measurements are. I donÆt want to experiment nor do I have enough wood to have a mistake. All I need is the distance from the ground to the bottom of the slot on the backboard, the length of the section that extends through the backrest to the ground and the width of the slot (half of the board?) I would imagine the height of the backrest is the least crucial measurement. It can also be fairly high too as I don't think I can get two chairs out of 12 feet. I took some measurements at a rendezvous once but have no idea what I did with them. The snow is flying today and all the rivers are frozen solid so it's a good time to get it done. The chair will be in the north east bastion after June, use it anytime IÆm not there. bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 08 Feb 2003 10:03:21 -0500 Had a load in my TC Hawken capper for over 2 years and didn't know it... went to use it and checked the bl... lo ahd behold, was I surprized. Took it to the range and she fired first shot... this was in South florida wth 70%+ humidity. Regards, Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 08 Feb 2003 18:39:33 -0500 (EST) Thanks to all for some great info. and interesting story's ! Mike ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ikon@mindspring.com Subject: MtMan-List: Otter skin stank Date: 08 Feb 2003 20:59:02 -0500 (EST) How do you trappers and skinners get rid of the fishy smell from otter and beaver skins? Yupper, just a little green when it comes to these critters. This is the otter that I picked up last Feb. in S.GA, 60" 40lb rascal. I stretched and fleshed out the skin then worked it soft but stiff enough to use it as possible bag or quiver skin. Dick James, if you're out there. Hi, haven't talked to you in awhile. Hope all it well. Frank ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: David Thompson Shoot Date: 09 Feb 2003 04:59:45 +0000 Hello the list, For any of you close to Montana here's a shoot I've been involved with for the last 15 years. It's not a true Rendzvous, but we do have a primitive area, no paper targets. Everything goes bang, clang or boom. In addition there's some points for stuff like trap settin, rock throwin, spear chuckin and maybe a devious egg perdicament once in a while. Anyhow, please note entry fee is all inclusive, no blanket prize needed. You don't really even need to bring food if you don't want, we have 4H kids nearby selling all three meals cheap, and its close to town. Hope to se you there. DAVID THOMPSON BLACK POWDER SHOOT Hosted by TOBACCO RIVER MUZZLELOADERS APRIL 25-26-27 EUREKA, MT. New Format-New Location-New Scoring=New Fun Events: Rifle Trailwalk, Pistol Trailwalk, Knife & Hawk Trailwalk & Skills event All added into one aggregate score Parade in town at 12:00 Sat.- Walk with us and have a chance for a great Prize Bus ride available to and from parade Sat. At 5:30 Horse Archery Demo Sat. at 6:00 û Team Shoot with great prizes for the top 2 Teams Teams will be drawn at random Aggregate Prizes for all All this for $15 adults - $5 Juniors Drinking Water, Firewood and FOOD available Traders welcome û Separate Primitive Camp Lots of Tin Tepee parking û Easy Access Go North from Eureka toward Canada on Hwy.93 for 1 mile- -Watch for sign Patched Roundball û Open Iron Sights SAFETY FIRST NO ALCOHOL OR SMOKING WHILE COMPETING!!! CALL: JOE (406)882- 4691 DENNIS (406) 889-3017 MARK (406)889-8120 Candy Cannon - Sat.- Before Team shoot Sun û Before Awards _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Otter skin stank Date: 08 Feb 2003 21:13:34 -0800 : MtMan-List: Otter skin stank > How do you trappers and skinners get rid of the fishy smell from otter and beaver skins? Yupper, just a little green when it comes to these critters. Most folks daub a bit o' sweet water around there to get past that fishy smell and others of us just get used to it by eating a lot of tuna and smoked herring right out of the can. You can put some perfume under your nose too. Nuther thing you can do is let the dog roll in them and hope he takes the smell with him when he runs off after them cats. > > This is the otter that I picked up last Feb. in S.GA, 60" 40lb rascal. I stretched and fleshed out the skin then worked it soft but stiff enough to use it as possible bag or quiver skin. Bet she's going to look fine hangin on your shoulder you rascal! Why don't you smoke the hide a bit? YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 09 Feb 2003 12:47:17 -0700 Pat Quilter wrote > As far as one can tell, guns were alwsys kept loaded. Many old "wallhangers" > or guns retrieved from barns or attics still have a load when inspected (I > have seen hair raising tales of them going off when the modern gunsmith is > heating the barrel to release the breech plug). Through personal experience, > I can attest that with ordinary care a flintlock may be kept loaded for days > if not months and still go off when required. Question: were these guns that were left loaded the first load or in other words, with a clean, not already fired, barrel? A fouled barrel would see pitting/ corrosion wouldn't it? Wynn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Update on Bens Question Date: 09 Feb 2003 12:57:56 -0700 While doing some reading I found this quote in Townsends journal that might be of interest in answering Bens question about caring for beaver pelts. pg 89 FORT VANCOUVER . . . . Here the Indians assemble with their multifarious articles of trade, beaver, otter, venison, and various other game, and here, once a week, several scores of Canadians are employed, beating the furs which have been collected, in order to free them from dust and vermin. Wynn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 09 Feb 2003 14:57:38 -0500 "Question: were these guns that were left loaded the first load or in other words, with a clean, not already fired, barrel? " Wynn I would say that these were a first load. If the fox was raiding the henhouse or wolf in after livestock, or redskin/stranger at the door, you wouldn't want to have to take the time to load. I have a little .30 cal Vincent that was a "barn gun." It was the neighbor's. His Dad kept it in the barn, for varmits. I don't ever remember him firing it, but after he died, his Wife gave it to my Dad. He took it outside anchored it, stuck a fuse in the nipple and lit it. When it hit that charge, it went off. That gun, as far as Dad remembered had not been fired since he lived there (20 yrs) or moved for that matter. The neighbor died in 70-71, and he was ion his 90's. His Wife said it was there when they got the place from his Dad in the 20's... D "When Death set out to sharpen a new Scythe, he went from stone to leather to silk to a soft breeze and finished it up with the rays of the rising sun. " ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 09 Feb 2003 15:00:47 -0500 I re-read my first para graph and it was vague, as am I<G> I am pretty sure that after the gun was fired, it was cleaned, and reloaded for the next occasion. I would think that with cleaning you would be more sure it would go off that to risk leaving it dirty. D ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 2:57 PM > Wynn > I would say that these were a first load. If the fox was raiding the > henhouse or wolf in after livestock, or redskin/stranger at the door, you > wouldn't want to have to take the time to load. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Update on Bens Question Date: 09 Feb 2003 14:43:06 -0800 Hi Wynn, Thanks for the post. That is interesting. Kind of makes it sound like it was just the indians furs that needed cleaning. I wonder if trappers did this on a regular basis or once they got the furs in a bale that's where they set. Kept dry and covered of course. I wonder if they did that to all the furs, every week, or just the ones they'd traded for that week and after they had them in a bale, stored in a cool dry place for shipment. Ben ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:57 AM > While doing some reading I found this quote in Townsends journal that might > be of interest in answering Bens question about caring for beaver pelts. > > pg 89 > FORT VANCOUVER . . . . Here the Indians assemble with their multifarious > articles of trade, beaver, otter, venison, and various other game, and here, > once a week, several scores of Canadians are employed, beating the furs > which have been collected, in order to free them from dust and vermin. > > > Wynn > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Update on Bens Question Date: 09 Feb 2003 14:17:47 -0800 > Hi Wynn, > Thanks for the post. That is interesting. Kind of makes it sound like it > was just the indians furs that needed cleaning. Ben, Could we be reading more into the statement below than is there. All it says is that the hides and furs that the indians brought in needed cleaning and a number of people other than indians were kept busy cleaning them. It does not say that the hides brought in by others did not. It also implies that the indian furs had not been tanned or otherwise treated to keep virmin out. But only by implication. One might also read into the below quote that only indians brought in furs but that would not be totally true though it is my understanding that this is how the British got most of their furs or quite a few. They seem to have sent out "brigades" to trade for them more than they sent out trappers to trap. I get a sense of that from Alexander Ross's journals. "FORT VANCOUVER . . . . Here the Indians assemble with their multifarious articles of trade, beaver, otter, venison, and various other game, and here, once a week, several scores of Canadians are employed, beating the furs which have been collected, in order to free them from dust and vermin." YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Update on Bens Question Date: 09 Feb 2003 18:00:43 -0700 Ben If I understand the quote and context correctly these were furs at Fort Vancouver. They were not fresh and came from all sources. Also, Townsend was discribing the fort itself so he refers to the place the Indains were trading because of their activity there, not because of the furs belonged only to them. This quote does not refer to what was done out on the trail and appears to refer to new furs only not those already packed away. It does not answer the questions just gives reason for more questions just as you have done. To me, it would tend to support those who have already speculated that furs may have been unpacked, aired and cleaned occasionally. But after reading the journals I don't believe they had the time or motivation to do it unless they believed that moisture or bugs were a problem. The furs were obviously not delivered completely clean or bug free or the fur companies would not have paid Candians to clean them. Wynn ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 3:43 PM > Hi Wynn, > Thanks for the post. That is interesting. Kind of makes it sound like it > was just the indians furs that needed cleaning. I wonder if trappers did > this on a regular basis or once they got the furs in a bale that's where > they set. Kept dry and covered of course. > I wonder if they did that to all the furs, every week, or just the ones > they'd traded for that week and after they had them in a bale, stored in a > cool dry place for shipment. > > Ben > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:57 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Update on Bens Question > > > > While doing some reading I found this quote in Townsends journal that > might > > be of interest in answering Bens question about caring for beaver pelts. > > > > pg 89 > > FORT VANCOUVER . . . . Here the Indians assemble with their multifarious > > articles of trade, beaver, otter, venison, and various other game, and > here, > > once a week, several scores of Canadians are employed, beating the furs > > which have been collected, in order to free them from dust and vermin. > > > > > > Wynn > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Sashes Date: 09 Feb 2003 18:08:34 -0700 What is the word on weaved sashes worn by the RMFT? Wynn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sashes Date: 09 Feb 2003 18:47:22 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_56dd.7128.1507 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wynn, A hunting-shirt of ruffled calico of bright dyes, or of ornamented leather, falls to his knee; below which, curiously fashioned legging, ornamented with strings, fringes, and a profusion of hawks' bells, reach to a costly pair of moccasons of the finest Indian fabric, richly embroidered with beads. A blanket of scarlet, or some other bright color, hangs from his shoulders, and is girt around his waist with a red sash, in which he bestows his pistols, knife, and the stem of his Indian pipe; preparations either for peace or war. His gun is lavishly decorated with brass tacks and vermilion, and provided with a fringed cover, occasionally of buckskin, ornamented here and there with a feather. His horse, the noble minister to the pride, pleasure, and profit of the mountaineer, is selected for his speed and spirit, and prancing gait, and holds a place in his estimation second only to himself. He shares largely of his bounty, and of his pride and pomp of trapping. He is caparisoned in the most dashing and fantastic style; the bridles and crupper are weightily embossed with beads and cockades; and head, mane, and tail, are interwoven with abundance of eagles' plumes, which flutter in the wind. To complete this grotesque equipment, the proud animal is bestreaked and bespotted with vermilion, or with white clay, whichever presents the most glaring contrast to his real color. From Adventures of Captain Bonneville Seem to be worn by a few folks, or should I say there are a few accounts of them being worn. Todd On Sun, 9 Feb 2003 18:08:34 -0700 "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> writes: > What is the word on weaved sashes worn by the RMFT? > > Wynn > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ----__JNP_000_56dd.7128.1507 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 http-equiv=3Dcontent-type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bottomMargin=3D0 leftMargin=3D3 rightMargin=3D3 topMargin=3D0> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Wynn,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>A hunting-shirt of ruffled calico of bright dyes, or of ornamented= =20 leather, falls to his knee; below which, curiously fashioned legging, = ornamented=20 with strings, fringes, and a profusion of hawks' bells, reach to a costly = pair=20 of moccasons of the finest Indian fabric, richly embroidered with beads. A= =20 blanket of scarlet, or some other bright color, hangs from his shoulders, = and is=20 girt around his waist with a red <BLINK><FONT=20 color=3D#ff0000>sash</FONT></BLINK></EM><A name=3DHEREHEREHERE></A><EM>, in= which he=20 bestows his pistols, knife, and the stem of his Indian pipe; preparations = either=20 for peace or war. His gun is lavishly decorated with brass tacks and = vermilion,=20 and provided with a fringed cover, occasionally of buckskin, ornamented = here and=20 there with a feather. His horse, the noble minister to the pride, pleasure,= and=20 profit of the mountaineer, is selected for his speed and spirit, and = prancing=20 gait, and holds a place in his estimation second only to himself. He shares= =20 largely of his bounty, and of his pride and pomp of trapping. He is = caparisoned=20 in the most dashing and fantastic style; the bridles and crupper are = weightily=20 embossed with beads and cockades; and head, mane, and tail, are interwoven = with=20 abundance of eagles' plumes, which flutter in the wind. To complete this=20 grotesque equipment, the proud animal is bestreaked and bespotted with=20 vermilion, or with white clay, whichever presents the most glaring contrast= to=20 his real color. </EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From <STRONG><EM>Adventures of Captain Bonneville</EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Seem to be worn by a few folks, or should I say there are a few = accounts of=20 them being worn.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Todd</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Sun, 9 Feb 2003 18:08:34 -0700 "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <<A= =20 href=3D"mailto:leona3@sourceoneinternet.com">leona3@sourceoneinternet.com</= A>>=20 writes:<BR>> What is the word on weaved sashes worn by the RMFT?<BR>>= =20 <BR>> Wynn<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>=20 ----------------------<BR>> hist_text list info: <BR>> <A=20 href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.= xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A><BR>>=20 <BR>> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML> ----__JNP_000_56dd.7128.1507-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kc16" <kc16@qwest.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: How Long? Date: 09 Feb 2003 18:00:31 -0800 In my case, the gun was loaded for a hunt....the hunt was not successful, then the gun was hung back on the wall in my gun room for a little over a year. It went off like a champ....so the barrel was clean. Blood > > Pat Quilter wrote > > > As far as one can tell, guns were alwsys kept loaded. Many old > "wallhangers" > > or guns retrieved from barns or attics still have a load when inspected (I > > have seen hair raising tales of them going off when the modern gunsmith is > > heating the barrel to release the breech plug). Through personal > experience, > > I can attest that with ordinary care a flintlock may be kept loaded for > days > > if not months and still go off when required. > > Question: were these guns that were left loaded the first load or in other > words, with a clean, not already fired, barrel? A fouled barrel would see > pitting/ corrosion wouldn't it? > > Wynn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Update on Bens Question Date: 09 Feb 2003 19:05:21 -0700 (MST) Dear List, The company I worked for purchased 5000-6000 beaver every year. Some would need combing but not many. Of course they were transported in vehicles and not on horseback or canoe. Furs were cleaned once (combed) after purchasing then stored till shipping in a cool room or cooler. Sand and silt can many times get impregnated in the underfur from when the beaver is dead in the trap and on the river bottom. This must be knocked free to make the pelt look better but especially to free it of excess weight as pelts were most often bought by the pound. Buyers are not stupid they've seen it all. Any extra fat or meat on the hide would be deducted with the tare weight. I think it was Martin Hunter of "Canadian Wilds" that reported finding fine lead strips stuck in slits of a large beaver hide to increase it weights. You can usually only fool a furbuyer once and try to make a fool of him and you hurt only yourself in future dealings. Vermin such as moth larva are not a problem during cold weather but mice and rats always are and even more so in cold weather. I can assure you that I checked my stack of beaver almost daily this fall. I also had them guarded with mouse traps and caught three before selling them. In warm weather simple visual examinations of the fur will tell you if there is a beetle problem. Its easy to spot the bugs themselves, their empty shells, droppings or actual damage done by them. Often or daily shaking of pelts would prevent the bugs from doing much. While transporting bales I imagine they were opened after a good rain, spill out of canoe or just weekly or so to air them and check them for mildew, rot (from undetected moisture) or anyother problems. Bugs don't like being moved a lot so I doubt they were a big problem other than when being stored in warm weather. I'm sure indian as well as white men's furs where in need of care after purchasing. I couldn't imagine putting up very nice furs while on the trail, it's hard enough in a nice heated shop. Martin Hunter also mentioned buying fur from a indian "who's leather was as clean as the paper this is written on". He worked for the HBC in northern Canada. beaverboy > Hi Wynn, > Thanks for the post. That is interesting. Kind of makes it sound > like it was just the indians furs that needed cleaning. I wonder if > trappers did this on a regular basis or once they got the furs in a > bale that's where they set. Kept dry and covered of course. > I wonder if they did that to all the furs, every week, or just the ones > they'd traded for that week and after they had them in a bale, stored > in a cool dry place for shipment. > > Ben > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 11:57 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Update on Bens Question > > >> While doing some reading I found this quote in Townsends journal that > might >> be of interest in answering Bens question about caring for beaver >> pelts. >> >> pg 89 >> FORT VANCOUVER . . . . Here the Indians assemble with their >> multifarious articles of trade, beaver, otter, venison, and various >> other game, and > here, >> once a week, several scores of Canadians are employed, beating the >> furs which have been collected, in order to free them from dust and >> vermin. >> >> >> Wynn >> >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Update on Bens Question Date: 09 Feb 2003 21:15:24 EST --part1_135.1ada10ef.2b78653c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/9/2003 4:56:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, leona3@sourceoneinternet.com writes: > To me, it would tend to support those who have already speculated that furs > may have been unpacked, aired and cleaned occasionally. But after reading > the journals I don't believe they had the time or motivation to do it > unless > they believed that moisture or bugs were a problem. The furs were > obviously > not delivered completely clean or bug free or the fur companies would not > have paid Canadians to clean them. > I've had the chance to look over the (recreated) fur operation at Fort Vancouver, and it's worth the trip. I can't say for sure what the trappers did in country, but at the Fort, the beaver hides were cleaned as best they could, then pressed into bales that weighed around 80-90 pounds each. The bales were then wrapped in raw hide, sewn closed, marked with the weight, given an inventory number, and as the rawhide dried, it made a nice tight, near water proof pack. The weight I understand was light enough for a voyager to carry two packs at a time. Tough boys back then.... Ymos, Magpie --part1_135.1ada10ef.2b78653c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 2/9/2003 4:56:57 PM Pacific Standar= d Time, leona3@sourceoneinternet.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">To me, it would tend to support= those who have already speculated that furs<BR> may have been unpacked, aired and cleaned occasionally. But after read= ing<BR> the journals I don't believe they had the time or motivation to do it unless= <BR> they believed that moisture or bugs were a problem. The furs were obvi= ously<BR> not delivered completely clean or bug free or the fur companies would not<BR= > have paid Canadians to clean them.<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> I've had the chance to look over the (recreated) fur operation at Fort Vanco= uver, and it's worth the trip. I can't say for sure what the trappers did in= country, but at the Fort, the beaver hides were cleaned as best they could,= then pressed into bales that weighed around 80-90 pounds each. The bales we= re then wrapped in raw hide, sewn closed, marked with the weight, given an i= nventory number, and as the rawhide dried, it made a nice tight, near water=20= proof pack. The weight I understand was light enough for a voyager to carry=20= two packs at a time. Tough boys back then....<BR> <BR> Ymos,<BR> Magpie </FONT></HTML> --part1_135.1ada10ef.2b78653c_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee Newbill" <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Lolo Pass Spring Flingf Date: 09 Feb 2003 19:42:37 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C2D073.66387E30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Correction on the date posted, below is the correct info.... April 13, 2003 (2nd Sunday in April) Lolo Trail Muzzleloader's Spring Fling Near Orofino, Idaho Points of Contact:=20 Don "Preacher" Robinson at 208-464-2156 or email dtrobinson@hotmail.com Evelyn "Stonewoman" Wilson at 208-476-4321 or email = ecwilson@clearwater.net=20 Regards Lee Newbill of North Idaho AMM# 1821 http://www.hogheavenmuzzleloaders.com http://users.potlatch.com/bluethistle http://www.mountaintoptradingco.com ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C2D073.66387E30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dwindows-1252"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Correction on the date posted, below is = the correct=20 info....</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><STRONG><BIG>April 13, 2003 (2nd Sunday in=20 April</BIG>)<BR></STRONG><BIG><A=20 href=3D"http://www.mountaintoptradingco.com/rendz_flyers_2003/spring_flin= g.gif">Lolo=20 Trail Muzzleloader's Spring Fling<BR></A>Near Orofino,=20 Idaho</BIG><BR><BIG>Points of Contact: </BIG><BR><BIG>Don "Preacher" = Robinson at=20 208-464-2156 or email <A=20 href=3D"mailto:dtrobinson@hotmail.com">dtrobinson@hotmail.com</A></BIG><B= R><BIG>Evelyn=20 "Stonewoman" Wilson at 208-476-4321 or email <A=20 href=3D"mailto:ecwilson@clearwater.net">ecwilson@clearwater.net</A> = </BIG></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><BIG><FONT size=3D3>Regards</FONT></BIG></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><BIG><FONT size=3D3>Lee Newbill of North = Idaho<BR>AMM#=20 1821<BR></FONT><A href=3D"http://www.hogheavenmuzzleloaders.com"><FONT=20 size=3D3>http://www.hogheavenmuzzleloaders.com</FONT></A><BR><A=20 href=3D"http://users.potlatch.com/bluethistle"><FONT=20 size=3D3>http://users.potlatch.com/bluethistle</FONT></A><BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.mountaintoptradingco.com"><FONT=20 size=3D3>http://www.mountaintoptradingco.com</FONT></A><BR></BIG></P></DI= V></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C2D073.66387E30-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Update on Bens Question Date: 09 Feb 2003 21:35:51 -0700 (MST) Magpie, You are correct. Fort Vancouver is an incredible fort that should be visited by all on the list. Their trade room is one of the best. It had something like 6 or 7 trade guns and something like 20 handforged traps in it besides all the other trade goods. It is a very large fort too! I think four Fort Unions would fit within its walls! Its blacksmith shop has four working forges, which is probably why they can afford to have so many handforged traps. There was around 15 buildings inside its walls I believe and it has a very nice garden as did the original plus orchards. Its fur room is the best I have seen ever. They have one wall completely lined with the bales Magpie mentions and they also have quite a collection of furs hanging and piled on the floor. It looks like a fur room! If I weren't such a American Fur Company man I'd go there more often. I wore my Fort Union shirt when I toured it and no one said a word about it. That surprised me. Go see it, you won't be sorry. Then keep going and tour Astoria and Fort Clatsop. bb > In a message dated 2/9/2003 4:56:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, > leona3@sourceoneinternet.com writes: > >> To me, it would tend to support those who have already speculated that >> furs may have been unpacked, aired and cleaned occasionally. But >> after reading the journals I don't believe they had the time or >> motivation to do it unless >> they believed that moisture or bugs were a problem. The furs were >> obviously >> not delivered completely clean or bug free or the fur companies would >> not have paid Canadians to clean them. >> > > I've had the chance to look over the (recreated) fur operation at Fort > Vancouver, and it's worth the trip. I can't say for sure what the > trappers did in country, but at the Fort, the beaver hides were > cleaned as best they could, then pressed into bales that weighed > around 80-90 pounds each. The bales were then wrapped in raw hide, > sewn closed, marked with the weight, given an inventory number, and as > the rawhide dried, it made a nice tight, near water proof pack. The > weight I understand was light enough for a voyager to carry two packs > at a time. Tough boys back then.... > > Ymos, > Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: David Thompson Shoot Date: 09 Feb 2003 21:47:44 -0700 (MST) Dang Sean, Do you have any idea where Eureka Montana is?!!! It's a long drive for me and I live in the state! Why don't you just throw that shoot in the North West Territories! Or Yaak?! Ha Just kidding. Here's one for you. The Southeast corner of Montana is closer to Texas than it is to the Northwest corner of Montana! It's true, measure it. bb > > Hello the list, > > For any of you close to Montana here's a shoot I've been involved with > for the last 15 years. It's not a true Rendzvous, but we do have a > primitive area, no paper targets. Everything goes bang, clang or boom. > In addition there's some points for stuff like trap settin, rock > throwin, spear chuckin and maybe a devious egg perdicament once in a > while. Anyhow, please note entry fee is all inclusive, no blanket > prize needed. You don't really even need to bring food if you don't > want, we have 4H kids nearby selling all three meals cheap, and its > close to town. > Hope to se you there. > > > > DAVID THOMPSON BLACK POWDER SHOOT > Hosted by > TOBACCO RIVER MUZZLELOADERS > APRIL 25-26-27 > EUREKA, MT. > New Format-New Location-New Scoring=New Fun > > Events: Rifle Trailwalk, Pistol Trailwalk, Knife & Hawk > > Trailwalk & Skills event > > All added into one aggregate score > > Parade in town at 12:00 Sat.- Walk with us and have a chance for a > great Prize Bus ride available to and from parade > > Sat. At 5:30 Horse Archery Demo > > Sat. at 6:00 û Team Shoot with great prizes for the top 2 Teams > > Teams will be drawn at random > > Aggregate Prizes for all > > All this for $15 adults - $5 Juniors > > Drinking Water, Firewood and FOOD available > > Traders welcome û Separate Primitive Camp > > Lots of Tin Tepee parking û Easy Access Go North from Eureka toward > Canada on Hwy.93 for 1 mile- -Watch for sign > > Patched Roundball û Open Iron Sights > > SAFETY FIRST > > NO ALCOHOL OR SMOKING WHILE COMPETING!!! > > CALL: JOE (406)882- 4691 DENNIS (406) 889-3017 MARK (406)889-8120 > > Candy Cannon - Sat.- Before Team shoot > > Sun û Before Awards > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" <flintlocknfur@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: David Thompson Shoot Date: 10 Feb 2003 04:55:39 +0000 Yup, I knew that one. That's why I don't get to fort union too often! Its a nice shoot though. We give away extra prizes people don't expect too. Like first time there, random stuff. And usually a blanket or a Buff skull just at random, usually by putting every bodys #'s on a board then having some kid shoot at it. the # he hits and the 4 closest #'s get a prize. Stuff like that. And as far as I know its the biggest in the state. ~150 shooters. And hey, don't forget little fort Owen and the mission here in Stevensville. >From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: David Thompson Shoot Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 >21:47:44 -0700 (MST) > >Dang Sean, > Do you have any idea where Eureka Montana is?!!! It's a long drive for >me and I live in the state! Why don't you just throw that shoot in the >North West Territories! Or Yaak?! Ha > Just kidding. Here's one for you. The Southeast corner of Montana is >closer to Texas than it is to the Northwest corner of Montana! It's true, >measure it. > bb > > > > > > > > > Hello the list, > > > > For any of you close to Montana here's a shoot I've been involved with > > for the last 15 years. It's not a true Rendzvous, but we do have a > > primitive area, no paper targets. Everything goes bang, clang or boom. > > In addition there's some points for stuff like trap settin, rock > > throwin, spear chuckin and maybe a devious egg perdicament once in a > > while. Anyhow, please note entry fee is all inclusive, no blanket > > prize needed. You don't really even need to bring food if you don't > > want, we have 4H kids nearby selling all three meals cheap, and its > > close to town. > > Hope to se you there. > > > > > > > > DAVID THOMPSON BLACK POWDER SHOOT > > Hosted by > > TOBACCO RIVER MUZZLELOADERS > > APRIL 25-26-27 > > EUREKA, MT. > > New Format-New Location-New Scoring=New Fun > > > > Events: Rifle Trailwalk, Pistol Trailwalk, Knife & Hawk > > > > Trailwalk & Skills event > > > > All added into one aggregate score > > > > Parade in town at 12:00 Sat.- Walk with us and have a chance for a > > great Prize Bus ride available to and from parade > > > > Sat. At 5:30 Horse Archery Demo > > > > Sat. at 6:00 û Team Shoot with great prizes for the top 2 Teams > > > > Teams will be drawn at random > > > > Aggregate Prizes for all > > > > All this for $15 adults - $5 Juniors > > > > Drinking Water, Firewood and FOOD available > > > > Traders welcome û Separate Primitive Camp > > > > Lots of Tin Tepee parking û Easy Access Go North from Eureka toward > > Canada on Hwy.93 for 1 mile- -Watch for sign > > > > Patched Roundball û Open Iron Sights > > > > SAFETY FIRST > > > > NO ALCOHOL OR SMOKING WHILE COMPETING!!! > > > > CALL: JOE (406)882- 4691 DENNIS (406) 889-3017 MARK (406)889-8120 > > > > Candy Cannon - Sat.- Before Team shoot > > > > Sun û Before Awards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.htm _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "De Santis, Nick" <nick.de.santis@intel.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Wooden Chair Date: 10 Feb 2003 07:34:24 -0800 BB, I believe I used 2 2x12x48 to make my chairs. My boy had a small plank chair that he got off a blanket at the Flying M Rondy years ago and I used those proportions to make mine. I cut the slot 12in up from the bottom of the back rest. The same for the seat I made it 12in also. The slot itself is the key to the comfort of the chair. Not the width so much as the height of it's opening. The wider (taller if you are measuring top to bottom on the back rest) the slot the bigger angle you get between the seat and the back rest. I recommend first cutting the slot just big enough to get the seat plank through. This will make you set kind of straight up. Then I opened the hole with a rasp a little at a time until it felt just comfy! I am thinking I left 2 to 2 and a half inches of the plank left on each side of the backrest when I cut the slot. One other thing, I made four chairs and there great, but the backs only came up 3 feet above the seat. This is great, until that warm fire makes you want to lean that drunken head back! I kick myself for not making them high enough...... Good Luck! -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 6:58 AM Dear List, I found a nice 2"x12"x12' floating down the Missouri last spring while trapping and let me tell you, they can get pretty heavy when water soaked. Anyway I am going to make a slotted wooden chair for myself out of it to leave at Fort Union for my yearly visits. Can someone that owns a nicely proportioned one tell me what the measurements are. I don't want to experiment nor do I have enough wood to have a mistake. All I need is the distance from the ground to the bottom of the slot on the backboard, the length of the section that extends through the backrest to the ground and the width of the slot (half of the board?) I would imagine the height of the backrest is the least crucial measurement. It can also be fairly high too as I don't think I can get two chairs out of 12 feet. I took some measurements at a rendezvous once but have no idea what I did with them. The snow is flying today and all the rivers are frozen solid so it's a good time to get it done. The chair will be in the north east bastion after June, use it anytime I'm not there. bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Wooden Chair Date: 10 Feb 2003 09:07:18 -0700 (MST) Thanks a ton, Thats just what I needed. I was wondering about that slot and if it was angled. I'll make my backrest higher as to your advice. Your measurements saved me having to experiment with my free plank, I appreciate it. The minute I found that plank floating down the Missouri I knew what I was going to do with it. Thanks again, bb > BB, > > I believe I used 2 2x12x48 to make my chairs. My boy had a small plank > chair that he got off a blanket at the Flying M Rondy years ago and I > used those proportions to make mine. I cut the slot 12in up from the > bottom of the back rest. The same for the seat I made it 12in also. > The slot itself is the key to the comfort of the chair. Not the width > so much as the height of it's opening. The wider (taller if you are > measuring top to bottom on the back rest) the slot the bigger angle you > get between the seat and the back rest. I recommend first cutting the > slot just big enough to get the seat plank through. This will make you > set kind of straight up. Then I opened the hole with a rasp a little > at a time until it felt just comfy! I am thinking I left 2 to 2 and a > half inches of the plank left on each side of the backrest when I cut > the slot. > > One other thing, I made four chairs and there great, but the backs only > came up 3 feet above the seat. This is great, until that warm fire > makes you want to lean that drunken head back! I kick myself for not > making them high enough...... > > Good Luck! > > -----Original Message----- > From: beaverboy@sofast.net [mailto:beaverboy@sofast.net] > Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 6:58 AM > To: hist_text@xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Wooden Chair > > > Dear List, > I found a nice 2"x12"x12' floating down the Missouri last spring > while trapping and let me tell you, they can get pretty heavy when > water soaked. Anyway I am going to make a slotted wooden chair for > myself out of it to leave at Fort Union for my yearly visits. Can > someone that owns a nicely proportioned one tell me what the > measurements are. I don't want to experiment nor do I have enough wood > to have a mistake. > All I need is the distance from the ground to the bottom of the > slot on the backboard, the length of the section that extends through > the backrest to the ground and the width of the slot (half of the > board?) I would imagine the height of the backrest is the least crucial > measurement. It can also be fairly high too as I don't think I can get > two chairs out of 12 feet. > I took some measurements at a rendezvous once but have no idea > what > I did with them. The snow is flying today and all the rivers are frozen > solid so it's a good time to get it done. > The chair will be in the north east bastion after June, use it > anytime I'm not there. > bb > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "farseer" <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Sorry, Geri Date: 10 Feb 2003 16:31:07 -0600 Seems to me like it was just a little chilly when I ran into you at Fort = BuenaVentura, Teton. I can honestly say I was envious of you two = getting to camp out that night.Walking out, my buddy and I watched a = muskrat bumbling along the ice onthe lake, and were both wishing we' = brung our kit with us, instead being there on business. Oh well, I'm = sure work will send me out that way soon again, and I may pack something = besides suits and dress shoes next time. =3D) Todd Missouri Territory > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > tetontodd@juno.com > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:11 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sorry, Geri >=20 >=20 > Capt Lahti my friend... >=20 > Good to see you're still out there and willing to share your thoughts. = As > usual, I happen to agree with what you said and how you said it. I = have > occasionally been known to mis-speak my opinion (well, once anyway)=20 > so I am slowing learning I'm often better off saying nothing at all. > Cold here along the Wasatch tonight, hope all my brothers are = weathering > well! >=20 > Teton >=20 >=20 > On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:19:59 -0800 "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> > writes: > > beaverboy, > >=20 > > I can't say I felt you were way out of line and really bad mouthing=20 > > folks > > cause they like to read novels or more correctly, fiction. It was=20 > > obvious to > > me that you were stating your considered opinion. And I certainly=20 > > understand > > what it's like to have a Clymer print and know the beaver pelts are=20 > > wrong. > > Still they are beautiful paintings, my wife's aunt is related and=20 > > she has > > several originals hanging in her house across town from me. I've=20 > > heard that > > Clymer and his wife did a lot of research to make their paintings=20 > > as > > accurate as could be without actually having been there and for the=20 > > most > > part he did a good job. For a long time his paintings were the=20 > > standard for > > western art of that era. > >=20 > > You of course are aware that Miller and other contemporary artists > > "doctored" up their paintings from their original field sketches?=20 > > Does that > > take anything away from their artistry or even their value to us?=20 > > Only if > > you don't take that into consideration when you work up your outfit=20 > > I > > suppose. > >=20 > > Speaking of which........I've been in the muzzle loading game for a=20 > > long > > time and I've been doing the mt. man thing for a long time and I=20 > > have > > discarded a lot of stuff cause I found out it wasn't "proper" and=20 > > that was > > important to me. Even though I am now "more" correct I have gotten=20 > > away from > > critiquing others and their gear just cause it ain't polite and=20 > > cause I may > > be wrong and cause I was there once too. > >=20 > > You don't like novels cause they aren't fact. You don't like=20 > > Clymer's > > paintings cause they have flaws. The big question? Is your gear=20 > > 100% > > perfect? Do you know all the answers pertaining to the Mt. Man or=20 > > any > > history your interested in, how they did things, dressed, lived,=20 > > ate? Are > > you sure? Or is part of your stuff really fiction? > >=20 > > YMOS > > Capt. Lahti' > >=20 > >=20 > > --------------- > > hist_text list info:=20 > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: No Subject Date: 11 Feb 2003 10:25:56 EST Kevin It has been some time since your message want out for assistance on a Fur Trade Venue. Are you getting the information you need? I noticed you got a message from John Kramer. John is ver knowledgable about this stuff. I personally have been involved in the activities and research for a long time and in fact am the originator of the "rebirth of the rendezvous" with the first one in the 20th century at Fort Bridger, Wyoming in 1973 and the first one for the American Mountain Men on the original Henry's Fork site in 1974 and the first one at Fort Buena Ventura in 1979 and others. Currently I am working with programs for Fort Buena Ventura to create a living history venue and also with the American West Heritage Center to create a full-functioning fur trade post on the grandest scale. Both the above are intended to teach about the fur trade as it truely was rather than the version put forth by the current bunch of leather clad, well-intentioned, but poorly schooled bunch that presents themselves as "mountain men". I equate that to a "Lash LaRue" 1945 kid's matinee movie (I loved 'em) depicting the life of an 1880s cowboy and the associated Indians - most of whom needed to be shot. Let me know if you have gaps in the program you are developing. Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Date: 11 Feb 2003 16:19:18 EST --part1_1cb.2580ab8.2b7ac2d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone got any good programs that can filter out Spam? ....I'm spending most of my time deleting that crap...and it's driving me wild! Magpie --part1_1cb.2580ab8.2b7ac2d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Has anyone got any good programs that can filter out S= pam? ....I'm spending most of my time deleting that crap...and it's driving=20= me wild!<BR> <BR> Magpie</FONT></HTML> --part1_1cb.2580ab8.2b7ac2d6_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Date: 11 Feb 2003 16:33:13 EST --part1_144.a48f8da.2b7ac619_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Magpie, If you go to AOL 8, it helps A LITTLE, but all-in-all AOL's spam filtering is next to non-existant. I'm a beta tester, and can tell you it's about the biggest thorn in their side and they are working on it as we speak. The fact they generate HUGE amounts of revenue by selling us out to advertisers isn't helping either; talk about a two-edged sword! LOL Barney --part1_144.a48f8da.2b7ac619_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#000080" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY= =3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D"0"><B>Magpie, If you go to AOL 8,= it helps A LITTLE, but all-in-all AOL's spam filtering is next to non-exist= ant. I'm a beta tester, and can tell you it's about the biggest thorn in the= ir side and they are working on it as we speak.<BR> <BR> The fact they generate HUGE amounts of revenue by selling us out to advertis= ers isn't helping either; talk about a two-edged sword! LOL = ; Barney</B></FONT></HTML> --part1_144.a48f8da.2b7ac619_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Roberts" <flint54@cfl.rr.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Date: 11 Feb 2003 17:05:51 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C2D1EF.D4AD20A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The only effective solution I've found is to change my email address and = then to be extremely discriminating as to whom it is given. Tom ----- Original Message -----=20 From: SWcushing@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:19 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Has anyone got any good programs that can filter out Spam? ....I'm = spending most of my time deleting that crap...and it's driving me wild! Magpie=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C2D1EF.D4AD20A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The only effective solution I've found = is to change=20 my email address and then to be extremely discriminating as to whom it = is=20 given.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DSWcushing@aol.com=20 href=3D"mailto:SWcushing@aol.com">SWcushing@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dhist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@lists.xmission.com">hist_text@lists.xmission.com= </A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 11, = 2003 4:19=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Spam.. off = topic</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = face=3DArial size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Has anyone got any good programs that can filter = out Spam?=20 ....I'm spending most of my time deleting that crap...and it's driving = me=20 wild!<BR><BR>Magpie</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C2D1EF.D4AD20A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Date: 11 Feb 2003 15:07:24 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2D222.567870D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I can't figure out why some people still don't get much spam and others (like myself) are inundated. I believe I practice fairly "safe computer" but I am do look at various special interests on the internet. I have resigned myself to deleting all obvious spam before downloading my messages (hopefully you have a titles-only way ot seeing stuff). You can see that the spam creeps are endlessly clever at changing their wording, so a machine filter seems almost inconceivable. It's a modern scourge, one of the few cases that seems to merit govt prohibition. What gives these people the right to intrude on my time and space? Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:19 PM Has anyone got any good programs that can filter out Spam? ....I'm spending most of my time deleting that crap...and it's driving me wild! Magpie ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2D222.567870D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=355254722-11022003>I can't figure out why some people still don't get much spam and others (like myself) are inundated. I believe I practice fairly "safe computer" but I am do look at various special interests on the internet.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=355254722-11022003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=355254722-11022003>I have resigned myself to deleting all obvious spam before downloading my messages (hopefully you have a titles-only way ot seeing stuff). You can see that the spam creeps are endlessly clever at changing their wording, so a machine filter seems almost inconceivable. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=355254722-11022003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=355254722-11022003>It's a modern scourge, one of the few cases that seems to merit govt prohibition. What gives these people the right to intrude on my time and space?</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=355254722-11022003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=355254722-11022003></SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT face=Tahoma><SPAN class=355254722-11022003><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial>Pat Quilter</FONT></SPAN><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=355254722-11022003> </SPAN>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> SWcushing@aol.com [mailto:SWcushing@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:19 PM<BR><B>To:</B> hist_text@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT face=Arial lang=0 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Has anyone got any good programs that can filter out Spam? ....I'm spending most of my time deleting that crap...and it's driving me wild!<BR><BR>Magpie</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2D222.567870D0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "farseer" <farseer@swbell.net> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Date: 11 Feb 2003 17:18:32 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C2D1F1.9A4C2440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are a couple of things you can do, but their of limited use. The number 1 most important thing is NEVER, EVER reply to the junk mail that bombs your inbox, or try and unsubscribe. The stuff that comes from a website you've visited, that's one thing. They have a record of your visit, and you may have done business with them, so they know you're real, and you might be interested in hearing from them again. BUT, the crap that just appears out of the blue, DO NOT reply, or ask to be removed. Most spammers buy CDs with millions of email addresses on them, and they use them in a scattergun approach. Most of those email addresses are bogus, some will give them business, enough for them to keep doing what they are doing. By replying, what you have done is confirm that your address is NOT bogus, and get's you sold to other email CDs, which is the spin-off business of spammers - selling YOUR info to other spammers. This is company policy where I work (a 5000 person software development company). We add the sender to a block list, and hopefully, our server takes care of it, but under no circumstances are we to reply to it. I've taken apart some of the spam I've gotten and the "unsubscribe" link was a confirmation link, to a completely different place. Pissed me off to be certain. ANY place you go to keeps track of your email address, and a lot web sites generate revenue by selling that information. So, I use a free service like Yahoo for stuff on web sites that want an email address. Places like amazon, ebay, etc. Buddy of mine maintains several different accounts, and he pays attention to which ones he uses where. If spam starts showing up on one of them, he knows who he's given it to, and raises hell with them. I don't have that much time to spend playing with the web myself. So far, my yahoo account doesn't get much spam. This stupid account, is at about 50% spam. I'm on 3 lists, and get about 50 a day, and I can count on my spam filters nailing about 10-12 of those, and then me having to delete the others, and add them to the "banned" senders lists. Probably gonna reach a point where I drop this account, and open up a new one. -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of SWcushing@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:19 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Has anyone got any good programs that can filter out Spam? ....I'm spending most of my time deleting that crap...and it's driving me wild! Magpie ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C2D1F1.9A4C2440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D350200723-11022003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>There=20 are a couple of things you can do, but their of limited=20 use. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D350200723-11022003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>The=20 number 1 most important thing is NEVER, EVER reply to the junk mail = that=20 bombs your inbox, or try and unsubscribe. The stuff that = comes from=20 a website you've visited, that's one thing. They have a = record of=20 your visit, and you may have done business with them, so they know = you're real,=20 and you might be interested in hearing from them again. BUT, = the=20 crap that just appears out of the blue, DO NOT reply, or ask to be=20 removed. Most spammers buy CDs with millions of email addresses on = them,=20 and they use them in a scattergun approach. Most of those = email=20 addresses are bogus, some will give them business, enough for them to = keep doing=20 what they are doing. By replying, what you have done is = confirm that=20 your address is NOT bogus, and get's you sold to other email CDs, = which is=20 the spin-off business of spammers - selling YOUR info to other=20 spammers.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D350200723-11022003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D350200723-11022003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2> This is company policy where I work (a 5000 = person=20 software development company). We add the sender to a block = list,=20 and hopefully, our server takes care of it, but under no = circumstances are=20 we to reply to it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D350200723-11022003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D350200723-11022003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2> I've taken apart some of the spam I've gotten and the = "unsubscribe"=20 link was a confirmation link, to a completely different = place. =20 Pissed me off to be certain.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D350200723-11022003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D350200723-11022003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2> =20 ANY place you go to keeps track of your email address, and a lot = web sites=20 generate revenue by selling that information. So, I use a free = service=20 like Yahoo for stuff on web sites that want an email = address. =20 Places like amazon, ebay, etc. Buddy of mine maintains several = different=20 accounts, and he pays attention to which ones he uses where. If = spam=20 starts showing up on one of them, he knows who he's given it to, and = raises hell=20 with them. I don't have that much time to spend = playing with=20 the web myself. So far, my yahoo account doesn't get = much=20 spam. This stupid account, is at about 50% spam. = I'm on=20 3 lists, and get about 50 a day, and I can count on my spam filters = nailing=20 about 10-12 of those, and then me having to delete the others, and add = them to=20 the "banned" senders lists. Probably gonna reach a point where I = drop this=20 account, and open up a new one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20 owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]<B>On Behalf Of=20 </B>SWcushing@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:19=20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> hist_text@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> = MtMan-List:=20 Spam.. off topic<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT = face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0=20 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Has anyone got any good = programs that can=20 filter out Spam? ....I'm spending most of my time deleting that = crap...and=20 it's driving me wild!<BR><BR>Magpie</FONT> = </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C2D1F1.9A4C2440-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JW Stephens <lray@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Date: 11 Feb 2003 15:31:44 -0800 Very interesting stuff farseer. Not on topic, but marked OT. The combination of Spamcop: http://spamcop.net/ and Mailwasher: http://www.mailwasher.net are helping, for me. You report spam to Spamcop by forwarding it to a secure account, where it is dissected and addresses are pushed onto automated ban lists > "Blacklists". Mailwasher checks your incoming mail against those blacklists before you POP account and shows you what it thinks is SPAM. It can also blacklist and bounce SPAM, so to a SPAMmer your account looks dead. Not perfect, but improving. Not available for AOL yet. B'st'rd farseer wrote: > There are a couple of things you can do, but their of limited use. > The number 1 most important thing is NEVER, EVER reply to the junk mail > that bombs your inbox, or try and unsubscribe. The stuff that comes > from a website you've visited, that's one thing. They have a record of > your visit, and you may have done business with them, so they know > you're real, and you might be interested in hearing from them again. > BUT, the crap that just appears out of the blue, DO NOT reply, or ask to > be removed. Most spammers buy CDs with millions of email addresses on > them, and they use them in a scattergun approach. Most of those email > addresses are bogus, some will give them business, enough for them to > keep doing what they are doing. By replying, what you have done is > confirm that your address is NOT bogus, and get's you sold to other > email CDs, which is the spin-off business of spammers - selling YOUR > info to other spammers. > > This is company policy where I work (a 5000 person software > development company). We add the sender to a block list, and > hopefully, our server takes care of it, but under no circumstances are > we to reply to it. > > I've taken apart some of the spam I've gotten and the "unsubscribe" > link was a confirmation link, to a completely different place. Pissed > me off to be certain. > > ANY place you go to keeps track of your email address, and a lot web > sites generate revenue by selling that information. So, I use a free > service like Yahoo for stuff on web sites that want an email address. > Places like amazon, ebay, etc. Buddy of mine maintains several > different accounts, and he pays attention to which ones he uses where. > If spam starts showing up on one of them, he knows who he's given it to, > and raises hell with them. I don't have that much time to spend > playing with the web myself. So far, my yahoo account doesn't get > much spam. This stupid account, is at about 50% spam. I'm on 3 > lists, and get about 50 a day, and I can count on my spam filters > nailing about 10-12 of those, and then me having to delete the others, > and add them to the "banned" senders lists. Probably gonna reach a > point where I drop this account, and open up a new one. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > SWcushing@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:19 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic > > Has anyone got any good programs that can filter out Spam? ....I'm > spending most of my time deleting that crap...and it's driving me wild! > > Magpie > -- Picture of the Day list >> http://www.ihpva.org/mailman/listinfo/pod ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Date: 11 Feb 2003 19:01:54 -0500 Ok... for those of you that use MS Outlook Express, here is what you do.... 1) Bring up OE 2) Go to TOOLS 3) Under TOOLS, select MESSAGE RULES 4) Under that, select MAIL, then tell it what you want deleted, who you want blocked, etc... Works for me.... Regards, Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic Date: 11 Feb 2003 17:28:24 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01C2D1F2.FB5C3490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's only a perception but I think you can cut down on spam by using a = "user name"/email name that is hard to computer generate. I've gotten = much less spam since I quit using my name or variations such as rtlahti, = rplahti, etc. r_lahti2 seemed to be a good anti-spam combo. I'll see if = using amm1719 helps. It also helps to change servers once in a while and = get a new email address (see above).=20 Just a though. Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01C2D1F2.FB5C3490 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's only a perception but I think you = can cut down=20 on spam by using a "user name"/email name that is hard to computer = generate.=20 I've gotten much less spam since I quit using my name or variations such = as=20 rtlahti, rplahti, etc. r_lahti2 seemed to be a good anti-spam combo. = I'll=20 see if using amm1719 helps. It also helps to change servers once in a = while and=20 get a new email address (see above). </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just a though.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00BC_01C2D1F2.FB5C3490-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic/ Frog Hollow Date: 11 Feb 2003 20:45:54 EST --part1_194.15063971.2b7b0152_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/11/2003 3:24:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, farseer@swbell.net writes: > Most spammers buy CDs with millions of email addresses on them, and they use > them in a scattergun approach. Most of those email addresses are bogus, > some will give them business, enough for them to keep doing what they are > doing. Thanks for all the replies.... I figured the "millions of email addresses" was the approach they are using. I use AOL's "Report Spam" joke, and think I've spooled the spammers up and get more junk now than ever.....aaaaargh! Back on topic: I just got a note that the Frog Hollow rondy is back....kind of a fun gathering... Magpie --part1_194.15063971.2b7b0152_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 2/11/2003 3:24:52 PM Pacific Standa= rd Time, farseer@swbell.net writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff"= style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"A= rial" LANG=3D"0">Most spammers buy CDs with millions of email addresses on t= hem, and they use them in a scattergun approach. Most of those e= mail addresses are bogus, some will give them business, enough for them to k= eep doing what they are doing.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" s= tyle=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ari= al" LANG=3D"0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> Thanks for all the replies.... I figured the "millions of email addresses" w= as the approach they are using. I use AOL's "Report Spam" joke, and think I'= ve spooled the spammers up and get more junk now than ever.....aaaaargh!<BR> <BR> Back on topic: I just got a note that the Frog Hollow rondy is back....kind=20= of a fun gathering...<BR> <BR> Magpie<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_194.15063971.2b7b0152_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net> Subject: MtMan-List: blacks in war of 1812 Date: 12 Feb 2003 10:26:33 -0600 I stumbled across this on the MSN site. Interesting. <Although their lives were circumscribed by numerous discriminatory laws even in the colonial period, freed African-Americans, especially in the North, were active participants in American society. Black men enlisted as soldiers and fought in the American Revolution and the War of 1812. The 54th Massachusetts Infantry was a volunteer group of African-Americans who fought during the Civil War. The unit was made up of former slaves from throughout the North. The regiment was one of the first black units organized in the northern states. > Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "De Santis, Nick" <nick.de.santis@intel.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Frog Hollow Date: 12 Feb 2003 09:19:17 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2D2BA.DF584810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Magpie, Would you please foward the info you recieved on Frog Hollow? Maybe an email contact name. Thanks, Travler -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 5:46 PM In a message dated 2/11/2003 3:24:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, farseer@swbell.net writes: Most spammers buy CDs with millions of email addresses on them, and they use them in a scattergun approach. Most of those email addresses are bogus, some will give them business, enough for them to keep doing what they are doing. Thanks for all the replies.... I figured the "millions of email addresses" was the approach they are using. I use AOL's "Report Spam" joke, and think I've spooled the spammers up and get more junk now than ever.....aaaaargh! Back on topic: I just got a note that the Frog Hollow rondy is back....kind of a fun gathering... Magpie ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2D2BA.DF584810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2722.900" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=323451717-12022003>Magpie,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=323451717-12022003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=323451717-12022003>Would you please foward the info you recieved on Frog Hollow? Maybe an email contact name.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=323451717-12022003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=323451717-12022003>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=323451717-12022003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=323451717-12022003>Travler</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> SWcushing@aol.com [mailto:SWcushing@aol.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 11, 2003 5:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> hist_text@lists.xmission.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Spam.. off topic/ Frog Hollow<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">In a message dated 2/11/2003 3:24:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, farseer@swbell.net writes:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" TYPE="CITE"></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Most spammers buy CDs with millions of email addresses on them, and they use them in a scattergun approach. Most of those email addresses are bogus, some will give them business, enough for them to keep doing what they are doing.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR>Thanks for all the replies.... I figured the "millions of email addresses" was the approach they are using. I use AOL's "Report Spam" joke, and think I've spooled the spammers up and get more junk now than ever.....aaaaargh!<BR><BR>Back on topic: I just got a note that the Frog Hollow rondy is back....kind of a fun gathering...<BR><BR>Magpie<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2D2BA.DF584810-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" <beb1@sisna.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: blacks in war of 1812 Date: 12 Feb 2003 10:25:00 -0800 Hi Frank, In my second book I have a run a way slave come to Zack's ranch, and he take's him in. In doing some research on this I found many instances of black's during the mountain man era. In fact in Clark's journal he refers to his slave as "the only one in the bunch I could depend on to do exactly what I said." Here's a link to an interesting site. http://www.coax.net/people/lwf/furtrade.htm Ben ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:26 AM > I stumbled across this on the MSN site. Interesting. > <Although their lives were circumscribed by numerous discriminatory laws > even in the colonial period, freed African-Americans, especially in the > North, were active participants in American society. Black men enlisted as > soldiers and fought in the American Revolution and the War of 1812. The 54th > Massachusetts Infantry was a volunteer group of African-Americans who fought > during the Civil War. The unit was made up of former slaves from throughout > the North. The regiment was one of the first black units organized in the > northern states. > > > Frank G. Fusco > Mountain Home, AR > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ > http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jody & Scott" <sjsdm@conpoint.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Clark & Son? Date: 12 Feb 2003 20:27:37 -0600 Esteemed list members, Can anyone tell me if Clark & Son got their computer problems fixed? A friend mentioned that he had an order due from there and hasn't been able to contact anyone. (I don't know if he meant only via email or phone.) Thanks in advance, Scott C sjsdm@conpoint.com "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ."...Patrick Henry ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:36:02 -0600 Date: 12 Feb 2003 19:36:18 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0097_01C2D2D6.5B85E0D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable test..no response needed Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0097_01C2D2D6.5B85E0D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>test..no response = needed</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0097_01C2D2D6.5B85E0D0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "swettfoot" <swettfoot@msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clark & Son? Date: 12 Feb 2003 22:14:39 -0500 Scott, I don't know if they got their computer fixed. Actually I didn't know they had a computer problem. My wife ordered me some fishing gear for Christmas and it was supposed to be in a week before. We have never received it. I e-mailed them about 6 times with no response. We called twice and did not receive any calls back.My wife's old card expired in January and as there was no charge on it I thought something might have happened to the proprietor (I thought that if he went to ship late and the card was expired he might have at least alerted us to the problem) . Nobody I've asked has been able to give me an answer. Now I have an idea as to what happened but I still don't understand why our calls weren't returned. I would like to know whats truly up too.Any answers out there?? Bruce ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clark & Son? Date: 12 Feb 2003 21:50:33 -0700 (MST) Scott, I placed an order in November and received it promptly and was very pleased with the tackle and the service. Paul is a very nice gentlemen and knows primitive tackle more than any one I have ever spoken to on the subject. From what I've gathered from the list is that the owner is very ill. I hope and will say a prayer that all will be well for him and his family. bb > Scott, > I don't know if they got their computer fixed. Actually I didn't know > they had a computer problem. My wife ordered me some fishing gear for > Christmas and it was supposed to be in a week before. We have never > received it. I e-mailed them about 6 times with no response. We called > twice and did not receive any calls back.My wife's old card expired in > January and as there was no charge on it I thought something might have > happened to the proprietor (I thought that if he went to ship late and > the card was expired he might have at least alerted us to the problem) . > Nobody I've asked has been able to give me an answer. Now I have an idea > as to what happened but I still don't understand why our calls weren't > returned. I would like to know whats truly up too.Any answers out > there?? > Bruce > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: blacks in war of 1812 Date: 13 Feb 2003 00:37:14 EST --part1_a1.33f9f9fe.2b7c890a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A good book on African Americans in the Western fur-trade and Indian Wars is: Burton, Art T., BLACK, BUCKSKIN & BLUE: AFRICAN AMERICAN SCOUTS AND SOLDIERS ON THE WESTERN FRONTIER (Eakin Press, 1999) --part1_a1.33f9f9fe.2b7c890a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"= Book Antiqua" LANG=3D"0">A good book on African Americans in the Western fur= -trade and Indian Wars is:<BR> <BR> Burton, Art T., BLACK, BUCKSKIN & BLUE: AFRICAN AMERIC= AN SCOUTS AND SOLDIERS ON THE WESTERN FRONTIER (Eakin Press, 1999)</FONT></H= TML> --part1_a1.33f9f9fe.2b7c890a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Frog Hollow Date: 15 Feb 2003 21:25:19 EST --part1_149.aa19d23.2b80508f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/12/2003 9:28:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, nick.de.santis@intel.com writes: > Would you please foward the info you recieved on Frog Hollow? Maybe an > email contact name. > > I just got the flyer for Frog. Back by popular demand, and a running fight with the Forest Service, it will be held on April 23-27, 2003, in the usual place. No email, but two numbers for information. Bruce Cameron 541-946-1341, and Dick Salisbury 541-726-7056. I'll be there if I can..... Magpie --part1_149.aa19d23.2b80508f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 2/12/2003 9:28:15 AM Pacific Standa= rd Time, nick.de.santis@intel.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT= : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff"= style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"A= rial" LANG=3D"0">Would you please foward the info you recieved on Frog Hollo= w? Maybe an email contact name.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style= =3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial"=20= LANG=3D"0"><BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> I just got the flyer for Frog. Back by popular demand, and a running fight w= ith the Forest Service, it will be held on April 23-27, 2003, in the usual p= lace. No email, but two numbers for information. Bruce Cameron 541-946-1341,= and Dick Salisbury 541-726-7056.<BR> I'll be there if I can.....<BR> Magpie</FONT></HTML> --part1_149.aa19d23.2b80508f_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Glise Date: 15 Feb 2003 20:51:33 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C2D534.06037220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a note to those who might be interested, Laura Jean Glise went = under on this very night last year. If anybody wishes to join me, I = will lift up a little prayer later to thank the Good Lord for Laura = Jean's life and to thank Him for holding her safe for us until we can = see her again. I miss her and, as I promised, I think of her when the wind blows. ymos Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C2D534.06037220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Just a note to those who = might be=20 interested, Laura Jean Glise went under on this very night last = year. If=20 anybody wishes to join me, I will lift up a little prayer later to = thank=20 the Good Lord for Laura Jean's life and to thank Him for holding = her safe=20 for us until we can see her again.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>I miss her and, as I = promised, I think=20 of her when the wind blows.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>ymos</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C2D534.06037220-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laura Glise Date: 15 Feb 2003 22:39:37 EST --part1_1dc.2cce365.2b8061f9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/15/2003 6:52:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes: > Laura Jean Glise went under on this very night last year Lanney, It's hard to believe it's been a year already, and at the same time comforting to know she's saving good spots for us......... Also was thinking about Victoria, who I haven't seen on the list for some time... is she ok? Barney --part1_1dc.2cce365.2b8061f9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#000080" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY= =3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D"0"><B>In a message dated 2/15/200= 3 6:52:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes:<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D4= FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCIT= E style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0= px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Laura Jean Glise went under on this very night last y= ear</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE= =3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000080" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D"0"><B><BR> Lanney, It's hard to believe it's been a year already, and at the same time=20= comforting to know she's saving good spots for us.........<BR> <BR> Also was thinking about Victoria, who I haven't seen on the list for some ti= me... is she ok?<BR> <BR> Barney</B></FONT></HTML> --part1_1dc.2cce365.2b8061f9_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laura Glise Date: 17 Feb 2003 04:27:31 -0500 lanny will say a word to the maker tonight for her hoping she is having shining times hawk-- ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: MtMan-List: Barlow Knives Date: 16 Feb 2003 14:38:36 -0500 (EST) Ho the list! Does any one out there know when Russell started making Barlow Knives with the capital R and Arrow mark on the bolster? Your Ever Humble Servant, M.A. Smith http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jdanelliott@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Question Date: 16 Feb 2003 17:05:28 EST --part1_14a.1be414dd.2b816528_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings, all. I'm new to this list, so please forgive me in advance for any screw-ups. Can anyone direct me to books or other research on when the first trappers worked the North Platte, St. Vrain and Big Thompson rivers along Colorado's Front Range, and who they might have been? Maj. Stephen Long's expedition in 1820 is generally credited as the first European party to see Longs Peak, but that seems late to me, and the peak was known to have a French name (I don't know it off-hand, but it translated to "The Two Ears," a reference to Longs Peak and its neighbor, now known as Mount Meeker). Thanks in advance. Dan Elliott --part1_14a.1be414dd.2b816528_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Greetings, all. I'm new to this list, so please forgiv= e me in advance for any screw-ups.<BR> <BR> Can anyone direct me to books or other research on when the first trappers w= orked the North Platte, St. Vrain and Big Thompson rivers along Colorado's F= ront Range, and who they might have been? Maj. Stephen Long's expedition in=20= 1820 is generally credited as the first European party to see Longs Peak, bu= t that seems late to me, and the peak was known to have a French name (I don= 't know it off-hand, but it translated to "The Two Ears," a reference to Lon= gs Peak and its neighbor, now known as Mount Meeker).<BR> <BR> Thanks in advance.<BR> <BR> Dan Elliott<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_14a.1be414dd.2b816528_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim J." <tjewell@comcast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Barlow Knives Date: 16 Feb 2003 18:06:48 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > Ho the list! Does any one out there know when Russell started making > Barlow Knives with the capital R and Arrow mark on the bolster? Try this link and see if it looks like the right knife http://www.jbrucevoyles.com/auction18c.htm look for lot number 284 near the bottom of the page Tim in mid Maryland with 22" of snow and counting ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: B of B Date: 17 Feb 2003 21:21:37 -0700 I have barrowed out some of my books. Can someone tell which Book of Buckskinning Cathy Bauman wrote her article about the Spanish influence on the fur trade in, and if my spelling of her name is correct. Thank you Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Ballstaedt" <thsb@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: B of B Date: 17 Feb 2003 21:55:49 -0700 wynn, cathy's article is in is bob # 4. you can borrow my copy if you like Tom #1834 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 9:21 PM > I have barrowed out some of my books. Can someone tell which Book of > Buckskinning Cathy Bauman wrote her article about the Spanish influence on > the fur trade in, and if my spelling of her name is correct. > > Thank you > Wynn Ormond > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: B of B Date: 17 Feb 2003 23:58:19 EST --part1_66.2ea6ebe6.2b83176b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Book of buckskinning 4 and yes the spelling of her name is correct. Frank Sablan Midland,Texas --part1_66.2ea6ebe6.2b83176b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Book of buckskinning 4 and yes the spelling of her nam= e is correct.<BR> <BR> Frank Sablan<BR> Midland,Texas</FONT></HTML> --part1_66.2ea6ebe6.2b83176b_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: B of B Date: 17 Feb 2003 22:59:23 -0600 Here you go. ymos Lanney Ratcliff Book of Buckskinning vol. IV Cathy Bauman Styles of the Southwest Clothing and accoutrements of the Southern Plains and Rockies > I have barrowed out some of my books. Can someone tell which Book of > Buckskinning Cathy Bauman wrote her article about the Spanish influence on > the fur trade in, and if my spelling of her name is correct. > > Thank you > Wynn Ormond > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: B of B Date: 18 Feb 2003 00:00:37 EST Wynn The Book of Buckskinning 4 has an article Styles of the Southwest By Cathy Bauman Hope this is what you are looking for Mark "Roadkill" Loader AMM #1849 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Barlow Knives Date: 19 Feb 2003 09:00:33 -0500 (EST) --WebTV-Mail-28863-113 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit It's similar, are those dates for all Russell Barlows or just that model? Mike --WebTV-Mail-28863-113 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-2214.public.lawson.webtv.net (172.16.213.144) by storefull-2233.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:07:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by smtpin-2214.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id A2DCBFEE3; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:07:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 18kXs6-0003xN-00 for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:06:54 -0700 Received: from [24.153.64.2] (helo=smtp.comcast.net) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 18kXs3-0003xI-00 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:06:51 -0700 Received: from oemcomputer (esx128dhcp290.essex01.md.comcast.net [68.33.129.34]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.09 (built Jan 7 2003)) with SMTP id <0HAF00JYWC7C4J@mtaout05.icomcast.net> for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:06:48 -0500 (EST) Message-id: <002d01c2d610$15842dc0$22812144@essex01.md.comcast.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <25028-3E4FE8BC-1350@storefull-2236.public.lawson.webtv.net> Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com ----- Original Message ----- > Ho the list! Does any one out there know when Russell started making > Barlow Knives with the capital R and Arrow mark on the bolster? Try this link and see if it looks like the right knife http://www.jbrucevoyles.com/auction18c.htm look for lot number 284 near the bottom of the page Tim in mid Maryland with 22" of snow and counting ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --WebTV-Mail-28863-113-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Russell knives Date: 19 Feb 2003 09:24:33 -0600 GreyWolfe asked, <Does any one out there know when Russell started making Barlow Knives with the capital R and Arrow mark on the bolster?> The current issue of Muzzle Blasts has an excellent article on the history of Russell knives. GreyWolfe, if you write me off-list and ask, I'll re-read the article and try to find the answer for you. More better, though, join the NMLRA and get their great magazine. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim J." <tjewell@comcast.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Barlow Knives Date: 19 Feb 2003 11:01:02 -0500 Mike, I believe the dates given are for that particular model. I was hoping by chance that was what you had and you could get a date range and price at once... Is there a patent number on the knife? If so here is a chart that will give you an approximate patent date http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/collectiblesonline/20-pat.txt According to the Dexter-Russell web site, Russell Company started producing the "Barlow" design in 1875. Their site is http://www.russell-harrington.com/Barlows.htm Maybe a phone call or email to them can give you more information. Good luck in your search. Regards, Tim ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:00 AM > It's similar, are those dates for all Russell Barlows or just that > model? > Mike > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russell knives Date: 19 Feb 2003 12:06:56 -0500 I was going to say that :) I have a neat Barlow knife made in Ireland... at least that is what it says on the blade. My Father-in-Law gave it to me before he crossed over.... Really special to me. Made in the 1930s.... but same pattern as then have been made in forever.... Regards, Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Barlow Knives Date: 19 Feb 2003 14:31:14 -0500 (EST) Thanks for the info. Tim,it wasn't so much a particular knife I was interested in but in how far back Russell was making the Barlow design which you answered,1875 Thanks a bunch! Mike http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net (The Grey Wolfe) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russell knives Date: 19 Feb 2003 14:35:48 -0500 (EST) Thanks for the interest Frank,no need to reread (unless you want to jus fer the fun!) that article,I found what I was looking for. Thanks again, Mike http://community.webtv.net/TheGreyWolfe/THELONGHUNTERSCAMP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: MT Man List: gage d'amour's Date: 20 Feb 2003 16:37:22 EST Hello the camp Got a question to pass on to you from Don Born Thanks Mark "Roadkill" Loader I do want to ask you if you know much about the gage d'amour's the trappers carried thier pipes in. I've seen a few drawings but no actual ones. I've got it in my head to try and quill one. I can see the general shape but can't tell if they are a bag or just a piece of leather with slits cut to hold the pipe. If they are a bag do they have a draw string closure or possibly just tied at the top. Did they carry tobacco in them as well? Were there any specific designs quilled/beaded on them or was it up to the maker? If you have ANY info on these dudes I'd love to hear about them. Down the Trail, Don ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery <aravery@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MT Man List: gage d'amour's Date: 20 Feb 2003 15:52:40 -0800 "...I do want to ask you if you know much about the gage d'amour's the trappers carried thier pipes in..." I have one that a friend made for me years ago. It is a heart-shaped bag with an open top, into which fits a small draw-string bag to carry prepared, (i.e. chopped up) tobacco in. The front of the "heart" has slits in it to carry a pipe in. Mine is soft leather, with fringe on the bottom, which is beaded with white heart beads. I rubbed mink oil into the leather for waterproofing purposes. I think a quilled one would look real nice. How about posting a picture when it's done? Black Knife aka Alan ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:43:24 -0600 Date: 21 Feb 2003 15:43:47 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2D9C8.59E7DF50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today I received an email from Clint Oak's address warning of a nasty = virus and included directions to rid your computer of it. IT'S A HOAX = http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.html = Do not delete the exe file specified from your computer as the = directions tell you. Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2D9C8.59E7DF50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Today I received an email = from Clint=20 Oak's address warning of a nasty virus and included directions to rid = your=20 computer of it. IT'S A HOAX <A=20 href=3D"http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.= html">http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoax.ht= ml</A> =20 Do not delete the exe file specified from your computer as the = directions tell=20 you.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C2D9C8.59E7DF50-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <beaverboy@sofast.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Buffalo hunting on the northern Plains Date: 23 Feb 2003 00:15:21 -0700 (MST) Dear List, I think it was Mark who posted the story of his fine bison hunt awhile back. It made me think of this journal entry but it took me this long to remember where I saw it. This is from John James Audubon journal. I got this from the fine book "Exploring the Northern Plains 1804-1876" edited by Lloyd McFarling It is under the chapter entitled "Buffalo Hunting at Fort Union" chapter 17 August 10, 1843 Thursday, When the wind is high and the Buffaloes run toward it, the hunter's guns very often snap, and it is during their exertions to replenish their pans, that the powder flies and sticks to the moisture every moment accumulating on their faces; but nothing stops these daring and usually powerful men, who the moment the chase is ended, leap from their horses, let them graze, and begin their butcher-like work. Although I have said much about Buffalo running and butchering in general, I have not given the particular manner in which the later is performed by the hunters of this country,- I mean the white hunters,-and I will now try to do so. The moment that the buffalo is dead, three or four hunters, their faces and hands often covered with gunpowder, and with pipes lighted, place the animal on its belly, and by drawing out each fore and hind leg, fix the body so it cannot fall down again; an incision is made near the root of the tail, immediately above the root in fact, and the skin cut to the neck, and taken off in the roughest manner imaginable, downwards and on both sides at the same time. The knives are going in all directions, and many wounds occur to the hands and fingers, but are rarely attended to at this time. The pipe of one man has perhaps given out, and with his bloody hands he takes the one of his nearest companion, who has his own hands equally bloody. Now one breaks the skull of the bull, and with bloody fingers draws out the hot brains and swallows them with peculiar zest; another has now reached the liver, and is gobbling down enormous pieces of it; whilst, perhaps a third, who has come to the paunch, is feeding luxuriously on some-to me-disgusting-looking offal. But the main business proceeds. The flesh is taken off from the sides of the boss, or hump bones, from where these bones begin to the very neck, the hump itself is thus destroyed. The hunters give the name of "hump" to the mere bones when slightly covered by flesh; and it is cooked, and very good when fat, young, and well broiled. The pieces of flesh taken from the sides of these bones are called filets, and are the best portion of the animal when properly cooked. The fore-quarters, or shoulders, are taken off, as well as the hind ones, and the sides, covered by a thin portion of flesh called the depouille, are taken out. Then the ribs are broken off at the vertebrae, as well as the boss bones. The marrow-bones, which are those of the fore and hind legs only, are cut out last. The feet usually remain attached to these; the paunch is stripped of its covering of layers of fat, the head and backbone are left to the Wolves, the pipes are all emptied, the hands, faces, and clothes all bloody, and now a glass of grog is often enjoyed, as the stripping off the skins and flesh of three or four animals is truly very hard work. In some cases when no water was near, our supper was cooked without our being washed, and it was not until we had travelled several miles the next morning that we had any opportunity of cleaning ourselves; and yet, despite everything, we are all hungry, eat heartily, and sleep soundly. Now that is a buffalo hunt! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: boone and Crockett Date: 23 Feb 2003 09:51:23 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2DB21.1FBC8F10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone else stay up last night and wat the Histroy Channel version of = Boone and Crockett? Heh... I did... Wasn't too bad. MArk Baker did a = right passable job of portraying Boone. The show itself stuck fairly = well to the true story line of both. I' no expert, but I couldn't see = that many errors... a few snuck in with minor things in costuming and = such... but nothing flagrant. The one I saw that really stuck in my = mind was the "Injun" that jumped over the camera, and his Jockey shorts = was peekin out from his breechclout...=20 Regards, Ad ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2DB21.1FBC8F10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyone else stay up last night and wat = the Histroy=20 Channel version of Boone and Crockett? Heh... I did... Wasn't too=20 bad. MArk Baker did a right passable job of portraying = Boone. The=20 show itself stuck fairly well to the true story line of both. I' = no=20 expert, but I couldn't see that many errors... a few snuck in with minor = things=20 in costuming and such... but nothing flagrant. The one I saw that = really=20 stuck in my mind was the "Injun" that jumped over the camera, and his = Jockey=20 shorts was peekin out from his breechclout... </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ad</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2DB21.1FBC8F10-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Cinches Date: 23 Feb 2003 18:03:20 -0600 What type of cinches held those pack saddles on in Brider's day? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: blankets Date: 23 Feb 2003 18:09:47 -0600 Is it possible that the weave of the old blankets was tighter than the reproductions used today? _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Roberts" <flint54@cfl.rr.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cinches Date: 23 Feb 2003 19:21:25 -0500 And a followup question if I may, how is that cinch secured to a wood frame saddle? Is it just wrapped around the flat sideboard, or is it fed through a slot in that board, or what? Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:03 PM > > What type of cinches held those pack saddles on in Brider's day? > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cinches Date: 23 Feb 2003 18:33:23 -0800 Tom, Go to the following site, http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/Brad.html and lok at the bottom photo to see how a cinch is attached to the pack saddle frame. Todd On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:21:25 -0500 "Tom Roberts" <flint54@cfl.rr.com> writes: > And a followup question if I may, how is that cinch secured to a > wood frame > saddle? > Is it just wrapped around the flat sideboard, or is it fed through a > slot in > that board, or what? > > Tom > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com> > To: <hist_text@xmission.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:03 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Cinches > > > > > > What type of cinches held those pack saddles on in Brider's day? > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: packsaddles Date: 23 Feb 2003 21:42:49 -0600 All the packsaddles I've seen from before 1865 are single rigged. The sawbucks have straps nailed like a "V" between the bucks to a ring that is approx. centerfire. some straps were scewed down in the 1860's saddles. Treefork packsaddles were in fact using a hole in the sideboard at least some of the time. Other treefork packsaddles have no indication as to how the cinch was attached. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: boone and Crockett Date: 24 Feb 2003 00:44:24 EST --part1_129.23c73227.2b8b0b38_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yep Ad, Sure did and "The Mountain Men" after that. Was the only one still up so I was able to sit through both with tape in the deck and my finger on the pause button fer those pesky and irritating commercials. Was quite enjoyable and now it can be any time. Longshot --part1_129.23c73227.2b8b0b38_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Yep Ad, <BR> <BR> Sure did and "The Mountain Men" after that. Was the only one stil= l up so I was able to sit through both with tape in the deck and my finger o= n the pause button fer those pesky and irritating commercials. Was quite enj= oyable and now it can be any time. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D5 FACE=3D"BATAVIA" LANG=3D"0">L</= FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D4 FACE=3D"BATAVIA" LANG=3D"0">ongshot</= FONT></HTML> --part1_129.23c73227.2b8b0b38_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Site Update Date: 24 Feb 2003 20:57:10 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2DC47.4CB7D520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All and sorry for any cross posting. I have a site update loaded, = a few new knives and a BUNCH of stuff on my "Other Crap For Sale " page. = Take a look http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Thanks Dennis "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2DC47.4CB7D520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello All and sorry for any cross = posting. I have a=20 site update loaded, a few new knives and a BUNCH of stuff on my "Other = Crap For=20 Sale " page. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Take a = look <A=20 href=3D"http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<= /A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dennis</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> "Abair ach beagan is abair = gu math=20 e"<BR> = DOUBLE=20 EDGE FORGE<BR> Knives and Iron=20 Accouterments<BR> <A=20 href=3D"http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<= /A></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> "Knowing how is just the=20 beginning."</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2DC47.4CB7D520-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" <deforge1@bright.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Riflegun for sale Date: 27 Feb 2003 13:12:11 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C2DE61.D69CF600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I have an American .58 cal Yaeger for sale ot trade on the site,. Take a look http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/TRADE.html Thanks D ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C2DE61.D69CF600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = size=3D2><STRONG>Hi</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2> I have an = American .58 cal=20 Yaeger for sale ot trade on the site,.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Take a look <A=20 href=3D"http://www.bright.net/~deforge1/TRADE.html">http://www.bright.net= /~deforge1/TRADE.html</A></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = size=3D2>D</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" = size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20 size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0069_01C2DE61.D69CF600-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:03:02 -0600 Date: 27 Feb 2003 20:03:12 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0106_01C2DEA3.9D6EB930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Back in November I received many kind calls and emails when I let it be = know that I was seriously ill. Thanks again to all who wished me well = then. I am pleased to tell you tonight that my doctors have released me = to go back to work on Monday....MUCH IMPROVED after 107 days. Whew! Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_0106_01C2DEA3.9D6EB930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Back in November I received = many kind=20 calls and emails when I let it be know that I was seriously ill. = Thanks=20 again to all who wished me well then. I am pleased to tell you = tonight=20 that my doctors have released me to go back to work on Monday....MUCH = IMPROVED=20 after 107 days. Whew!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0106_01C2DEA3.9D6EB930-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:03:02 -0600 Date: 27 Feb 2003 20:14:30 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_1b17.4d07.4bdd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Back to work! Fell sorry for you. Seriously, keep getting better buddy.... Teton On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:03:12 -0700 "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> writes: Back in November I received many kind calls and emails when I let it be know that I was seriously ill. Thanks again to all who wished me well then. I am pleased to tell you tonight that my doctors have released me to go back to work on Monday....MUCH IMPROVED after 107 days. Whew! Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ----__JNP_000_1b17.4d07.4bdd Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Back to work! Fell sorry for you. Seriously, keep getting better=20 buddy....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Teton</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:03:12 -0700 "Lanney Ratcliff" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>&= gt;=20 writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: = 10px"> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Back in November I received = many kind=20 calls and emails when I let it be know that I was seriously ill. = Thanks=20 again to all who wished me well then. I am pleased to tell you = tonight=20 that my doctors have released me to go back to work on Monday....MUCH = IMPROVED=20 after 107 days. Whew!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux=20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ----__JNP_000_1b17.4d07.4bdd-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: PA Needs help Date: 27 Feb 2003 22:59:15 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2DEB3.D9A13C10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Bud... you still on this list? If so, contact me off list... Got a = Pilgrim in PA that is in need of a Vous... Regards, Ad ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2DEB3.D9A13C10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey Bud... you still on this list? If = so, contact=20 me off list... Got a Pilgrim in PA that is in need of a = Vous...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ad</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C2DEB3.D9A13C10-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:03:02 -0600 Date: 27 Feb 2003 23:00:25 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C2DEB4.03D33C90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Glad to hear the GREAT news Lanney :) Heh... I'll lift a JD to you = tonite for the recovery... regards, Ad ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C2DEB4.03D33C90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Glad to hear the GREAT news Lanney = :) =20 Heh... I'll lift a JD to you tonite for the recovery...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ad</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C2DEB4.03D33C90-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: PA Needs help Date: 28 Feb 2003 23:58:41 -0500 WHAT DO YOU NEED PARD HAWK ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery <aravery@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:03:02 -0600 Date: 27 Feb 2003 22:31:39 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Bdk3JZGXu4SE/nNCVUfXQA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT "...my doctors have released me to go back to work on Monday..." Well, it's about time you got off the couch and got back to work Lanney! (Great to hear you are doing better!) Alan --Boundary_(ID_Bdk3JZGXu4SE/nNCVUfXQA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#e0e8e0> <DIV><FONT face=AGaramond>"...</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4>my doctors have released me to go back to work on Monday..."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=AGaramond size=4>Well, it's about time you got off the couch and got back to work Lanney!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=AGaramond size=4>(Great to hear you are doing better!)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=AGaramond size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=AGaramond size=4>Alan</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML> --Boundary_(ID_Bdk3JZGXu4SE/nNCVUfXQA)-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John McKee" <stitchin@sirisonline.com> Subject: MtMan-List: better and better Date: 28 Feb 2003 08:06:45 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C2DF00.55BF7540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Glad you had not gone under, Lanney, Texas is a better State for it!! = John The Stitchin' Scotsman 100% Handsewn Elkhide garments and moccasins Manu Forti www.stitchinscotsman.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: AMM ; History List=20 Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:03 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:03:02 -0600 Back in November I received many kind calls and emails when I let it = be know that I was seriously ill. Thanks again to all who wished me = well then. I am pleased to tell you tonight that my doctors have = released me to go back to work on Monday....MUCH IMPROVED after 107 = days. Whew! Lanney Ratcliff lanneyratcliff@charter.net ______________________________________________________________ Aux Aliments du Pays ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C2DF00.55BF7540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Glad you had not gone under, Lanney, Texas is a better State = for=20 it!! John</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Stitchin' Scotsman<BR>100% Handsewn Elkhide garments<BR>and=20 moccasins<BR>Manu Forti<BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.stitchinscotsman.com">www.stitchinscotsman.com</A></DI= V> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dlanneyratcliff@charter.net=20 href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">Lanney Ratcliff</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dammlist@lists.xmission.com=20 href=3D"mailto:ammlist@lists.xmission.com">AMM</A> ; <A=20 title=3Dhist_text@xmission.com = href=3D"mailto:hist_text@xmission.com">History=20 List</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 27, = 2003 9:03=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Date: Thu, = 27 Feb=20 2003 21:03:02 -0600</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Back in November I = received many kind=20 calls and emails when I let it be know that I was seriously ill. = Thanks=20 again to all who wished me well then. I am pleased to tell you = tonight=20 that my doctors have released me to go back to work on Monday....MUCH = IMPROVED=20 after 107 days. Whew!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Lanney Ratcliff<BR><A=20 = href=3D"mailto:lanneyratcliff@charter.net">lanneyratcliff@charter.net</A>= <BR>______________________________________________________________<BR>Aux= =20 Aliments du Pays<BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C2DF00.55BF7540-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: PA Needs help Date: 28 Feb 2003 09:12:24 -0500 Got some Pilgrims in central PA just startin out in Ronnyvous.... I know that Bud lives up in PA somewheres... thought he might get in touch with them... Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net> Subject: MtMan-List: personal care Date: 28 Feb 2003 08:58:28 -0600 Last nite, while watching Survivor (OK, maybe I shouldn't admit that) I saw that reward prizes were given that included toenail and fingernail clippers. This got me to wondering how folks 'back then' performed these tasks. I don't believe I have ever seen reference to this. It is something we take for granted but could have been an issue at one time. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Grzywacz" <bob----debie@pcisys.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:03:02 -0600 Date: 28 Feb 2003 08:59:35 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0169_01C2DF07.B7AA6D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lanny Good to know yer back up and around.=20 Regards Bob Thunder Ridge PO 4415 Woodland Park, Co. 80866 719-687-6510 www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder Back in November I received many kind calls and emails when I let it = be know that I was ------=_NextPart_000_0169_01C2DF07.B7AA6D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lanny</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good to know yer back up and = around.=20 </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bob</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>Thunder Ridge<BR>PO 4415<BR>Woodland Park, Co. =20 80866<BR>719-687-6510<BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder">www.cap-n-ball.com/thunder</A>= </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Back in November I = received many kind=20 calls and emails when I let it be know that I was=20 </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0169_01C2DF07.B7AA6D80-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: better and better Date: 01 Mar 2003 11:05:50 -0500 LANNY glad to hear you are getting back to your natural self now you'll have to come up yo the ozarks when we get moved and do that nasty thing like trout fish on the white or the buffilo rivers or just a couple day canoe float or two---you know the latch is on the outside of the door ---we hope to be moved to eureka by may at the latest---bring your ultralight its a blast if you decide to wander up the pass thru the boston mountains---super chief from okla is planning on coming up to play---we got the visitors cabin just about finished during hunting season had a custom door made that took 4 hinges to hold it---good solid oak--inside beams are 6 X8 oal and interior trim is walnut--has most of the modern conveniences in it---got lots of company planned for this year---me i'll be building guns and trying to get the house in mill hollow restored---shop will be next to house ---got a lot of stone work planned--- again glad to hear you are back to your natural self---are you going up to the big doins in okla in may--- hawk ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: better and better Date: 28 Feb 2003 12:47:44 -0600 Hawk All that sounds real good. I will take you up on your offer but it will have to wait for a while. I have been off for over three months and the boss needs me for a while. That trout fishing sure sounds good, though. Haven't caught any trout in years. We will talk more about this later. Lanney ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 10:05 AM > LANNY > glad to hear you are getting back to your natural self now you'll have to > come up yo the ozarks when we get moved and do that nasty thing like > trout fish on the white or the buffilo rivers or just a couple day canoe > float or two---you know the latch is on the outside of the door ---we > hope to be moved to eureka by may at the latest---bring your ultralight > its a blast if you decide to wander up the pass thru the boston > mountains---super chief from okla is planning on coming up to play---we > got the visitors cabin just about finished during hunting season had a > custom door made that took 4 hinges to hold it---good solid oak--inside > beams are 6 X8 oal and interior trim is walnut--has most of the modern > conveniences in it---got lots of company planned for this year---me i'll > be building guns and trying to get the house in mill hollow > restored---shop will be next to house ---got a lot of stone work > planned--- > > again glad to hear you are back to your natural self---are you going up > to the big doins in okla in may--- > > hawk > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: personal care Date: 28 Feb 2003 11:00:46 -0800 > This got me to wondering how folks 'back then' performed these tasks. Frank, No you should not have admitted watching that program. You don't see me admitting to watching it do you!!!!!!!!? As to how did they take care of those things back when? Under indian attack they bit their fingernails just like any of us would. Inbetween Indian attacks they trimmed them with a sharp knife just like my grandady did when he didn't have clippers or Indians around. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: better and better Date: 28 Feb 2003 15:41:27 -0500 *NUDGES LANNEY OUT OF THE WAY* I'll go trout fishing :)))) Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: personal care Date: 28 Feb 2003 15:45:58 -0500 > As to how did they take care of those things back when? Under indian attack > they bit their fingernails just like any of us would. Inbetween Indian > attacks they trimmed them with a sharp knife just like my grandady did when > he didn't have clippers or Indians around. > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' Gee Capt... was Granddaddys nicname Stubby? *grins* Actually, my Grandfather used to do the same thing with a tiny pocket knife. Was only about 1.5" long... Never knew him to get himself instead of the nail. Also, my Grandmother died at 88 with all of her own teeth and never had to have a filling. She used salt and baking soda all of her life to brush her teeth. Strange how the pharmacuetical companies always try and improve on stuff. Gotta admit though... she had to be a tuff old girl... I tried it and BLEAH!!! ... tasted bad!!!! Regards, Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man book Date: 28 Feb 2003 14:45:50 -0600 Ben I am working on my book. Between family obligations, it is coming along quite well. Mine is fiction with references to early American heritage, contemporary politics and a bit of futuristic stuff. Would you mind telling me who your agent is and how you landed him/her? From past experience, I know writing is usually the easy part. Finding an agent and getting published is the hard part. Regards, Frank ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:21 AM > Hi Frank, > > LOL Frank. I don't know about "a real writer", I'm just an > old man that > loves the mountains and history, especially the fur trade > era. Wouldn't you > have just loved to see these mountains before they were > crawlin' with > people? There are still a few places that make you feel > you're the first to > have seen it, but they're getting few and far between. Now > seems like every > ridge you crest has a road on top of it or one in the bottom > of the canyon. > > My full name is Bennett H. Bracken, and I live in what used > to a fairly > small town about 30 miles south of Salt Lake City. The name > of the novel is > Chase the Wind, if the publishers don't change it for some > reason, and it'll > be out the first quarter of 2003 (I hope). > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net> > To: "hist_text-digest" <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:23 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Mtn. Man book > > > > Ben said, > > <I've written a novel about mountain men and the fur > trade era.> > > Ben, wats yer last name or pen name? What is the book > title? > > Let us know when it hits the shelves. > > We have been needing a real writer on this list. <G> > > Frank G. Fusco > > Mountain Home, AR > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ > > http://www.geocities.com/rifleman1776/photopageflag.html > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: personal care Date: 28 Feb 2003 15:19:31 -0800 Ad, I've trimmed my nails with a knife both big and small but not my toenails. That's got to be hard. I used to bite my toenails but that has to have been close to 59 years ago. <G> And I've brushed my teeth with baking soda and salt. In fact you can get mint flavored baking soda made just for that purpose. I carry it trekking along with my boar bristle brush. Actually my daddy's dad probably was surrounded by Ruskies more than Indians but from what I heard it was the Ruskies that were biting their nails to the quick! (Russo/Finnish Winter War) YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Curtis Krouse" <kc16@qwest.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: better and better Date: 28 Feb 2003 18:10:54 -0800 Lanney... Good to hear that you are healthy! Waauuuggghhh!!! Sorry to hear about the trout fishin'. Funny thing, trout are so plentiful up here in the Northwest, that most people I know who fish all the time don't even like them. Now..go figure....I've had people give me good trout, right out of the fishin' hole cause they didn't want them. It's a funny thing...for sure! Blood On Fri, 2003-02-28 at 10:47, Lanney Ratcliff wrote: > Hawk > All that sounds real good. I will take you up on your offer but it will > have to wait for a while. I have been off for over three months and the > boss needs me for a while. That trout fishing sure sounds good, though. > Haven't caught any trout in years. > We will talk more about this later. > Lanney > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <hawknest4@juno.com> > To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 10:05 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: better and better > > > > LANNY > > glad to hear you are getting back to your natural self now you'll have to > > come up yo the ozarks when we get moved and do that nasty thing like > > trout fish on the white or the buffilo rivers or just a couple day canoe > > float or two---you know the latch is on the outside of the door ---we > > hope to be moved to eureka by may at the latest---bring your ultralight > > its a blast if you decide to wander up the pass thru the boston > > mountains---super chief from okla is planning on coming up to play---we > > got the visitors cabin just about finished during hunting season had a > > custom door made that took 4 hinges to hold it---good solid oak--inside > > beams are 6 X8 oal and interior trim is walnut--has most of the modern > > conveniences in it---got lots of company planned for this year---me i'll > > be building guns and trying to get the house in mill hollow > > restored---shop will be next to house ---got a lot of stone work > > planned--- > > > > again glad to hear you are back to your natural self---are you going up > > to the big doins in okla in may--- > > > > hawk > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > Visit www.juno.com > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: better and better Date: 28 Feb 2003 23:21:09 -0500 Tell ya how to solve that problem Kurt.... pack them in dry ice and SEND THEM TO ME!!! *laughs* Regards, Ad Now..go figure....I've had people give > me good trout, right out of the fishin' hole cause they didn't want > them. It's a funny thing...for sure! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com> Date: 28 Feb 2003 23:07:29 -0600 Well, I'm new to this but can sometimes spell Bridger right. What kinf of cinches held pack saddles on in Bridger's day? _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com> Date: 28 Feb 2003 23:11:30 -0600 It's true then; I am a complete idiot! _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com> Date: 01 Mar 2003 00:10:54 -0600 Hello list, I am new and just now figuring out how this list works. I never got any response except my own postings tonight so if any one did respond to previous questions I'm sorry I missed them. I enjoy reading the years of back log. I sure missed out on a lot of good discussions but I am catching up now. I am building a smooth gun and putting a mountain man outfit together. I am interested in horse stuff. Does anyone know where there are examples of early (pre civil war)iron picket pins? I realize an iron banded wooden stake was used early in the rocky mountains (Miller, written descriptions etc.) but I have seen iron picket pins mentioned. Jim _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charlie P Webb <cwebbbpdr@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:03:02 -0600 Date: 28 Feb 2003 14:05:20 -0700 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_516c.4146.2cd1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lanny, Simply is great news that your getting better, I am not sure about the work thing, but I have found it a necessary evil, keep on improving, and keep us posted! Charlie Webb ----__JNP_000_516c.4146.2cd1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Lanny,</DIV> <DIV>Simply is great news that your getting better, I am not = sure=20 about the work thing, but I have found it a necessary evil, keep on = improving,=20 and keep us posted!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Charlie Webb </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ----__JNP_000_516c.4146.2cd1-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html