Subject: MtMan-List: Moccasin with wool insert source.
Date: 03 Nov 2002 10:56:25 -0500
Frank and others
I am the sort of fellow who like to make his own mocs and such...just feels more PC that way. But I recently had need of a new pair and needed them quick.
Someone told me about 2bears (they have a website..think it is twobears.com) as a source of mocs. I was able to get Ernie to send me a pair of moccasins made of moose (dark) that had a double sole and a wool coating liner and for about $42 shipped. All I had to do was resew the heal seam to fit my foot specifically and trim the pucker seam a tad more. These have held up REALLY well, look really good (esp after I greased them with my bear grease-ochre mix) and you cannot buy the leather and wool for that price hardly!!!
I highly reccomend this as a source of wool-lined mocs.
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I cant remember what the source was but I too have read accounts of socks,
and I beleive they also referred them as stockings (again going from my
memory). Now the next is a shameless plug. I will have available hand
knitted socks, a English lady is teaching my mother how to make them. I
currently have two pair,(unfortunately they are made from wool from a craft
store part acrylic and part wool) if these sell I have will have a source of
100% wool in the near future. Also available handknitted touque's, liberty,
voyager caps (whatever you prefer to call them) I should have jpegs
available soon to anyone interested.
Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I cant remember what the source was but I too have read accounts of socks, and I beleive they also referred them as stockings (again going from my memory). Now the next is a shameless plug. I will have available hand knitted socks, a English lady is teaching my mother how to make them. I currently have two pair,(unfortunately they are made from wool from a craft store part acrylic and part wool) if these sell I have will have a source of 100% wool in the near future. Also available handknitted touque's, liberty, voyager caps (whatever you prefer to call them) I should have jpegs available soon to anyone interested.<BR>
<BR>
Frank Sablan<BR>
Midland,Texas</FONT></HTML>
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</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thank you for all the help on my project. Mr. Moore I would like your article from On the Trail magazine. Our address is 7645 Thunderbird lane Colorado Springs, CO 80919. <BR>
Barney or hardtack I don't have a time period. We would like some of those recipes. We think we are going to make buffalo or deer stew and soutdough biscuits.<BR>
Brown meat in small amount of oil in a large Dutch oven, then add Onion and
cook until golden brown. Add tomato sauce, carrots and seasonings, cover,
COOK 1 HOUR. Add potatoes and 1 cup water, if needed. Cover and cook 1/2
hour. Add mixed vegetables and cook another 1/2 hour. Keep heat very low, so
stew is just simmering, at all times.
From the Original Cowboy Cookbook, by 'Wild Wes' Medley, Published by
Original Western Publications, Cairo, NE 68824, Copyright 1989
RANCHLAND DEER POT ROAST
1/2 Cup Flour
1 Venison Roast - 2 inchest thick
2 Tablespoons Vegetable Oil
1/4 Cup chopped Celery
1 Carrot, chopped
2 Tablespoons chopped Onion
1/2 Teaspoon Salt
1/4 Teaspoon Pepper
1 Cup boiling Water
1 Cup Red Wine (it cooks off, so not to worry) <GGG>
Pound flour into meat. In a large skillet, brown meat in oil. Add vegetables,
salt, pepper and 1/2 cup each of wine and water. Simmer COVERED for 1 hour.
Add remaining liquids and simmer until tender.
SOURDOUGH BREAD
To be done properly, you have to make a 'starter', then when that is ready,
use it to bake your bread or biscuits with.....
SOURDOUGH STARTER
1 quart lukewarm Water
1 pkg. dry Yeast
2 Teaspoon Sugar
4 cup All-Pupose Flour
Put water in crock; add yeast and sugar to soften. Stir in flour. Cover with
a clean cloth. Let rise until mixture is light and slightly aged, about 2
days. Mixture will thin as it stands; add flour as needed. As you use the
sourdough from the crock, replace it with equal amounts of flour and water to
keep a full batch of 'starter' going.
BLUE RIBBON SOURDOUGH BREAD
(Makes 2 large loaves)
2 cups Sourdough Starter
2 cups lukewarm Water (potato, rice or macoroni water if possible)
1/3 to 1/2 cup Sugar
1 tablespoon Salt
3 tablespoons Salad Oil or Butter (Butter is best)
1 Pkg Yeast
7 to 9 cups Flour
Begin the night before by mixing the 'starter' with 2 cups each of flour and
water. Mix well, cover and let sit in a warm place overnight. This is the new
'starter' you use for the recipe.
In the morning take 2 cups from the mixture and pour the remaining sourdough
into your 'starter' crock and refrigerate.
Mix the starter with the water, sugar, salt and oil. Add yeast. Add flour to
make a medium soft but not sticky dough. Knead well, until smooth and elastic
(6-8 minutes).
Place in a lightly greased bowl, turning once to grease surface of dough.
Cover, let double in size (about 1 hour) in a warm place.
Punch down and let rise again (this 2nd rise can be skipped to save time).
Punch down, knead it lightly and cut into 2 equal pieces.
To bake in a 12 inch Dutch, form each piece into a round loaf, place in a
lightly greased oven, slice the top several times and allow to raise again.
Pre-heat the lid and bake with heat from top and bottom for 15-20 minutes,
remove half of bottom heat and continue baking 20-30 minutes or until browned
and done. Cool on wire rack. ENJOY.
Good luck with your project, and let us know how it comes out. Barney
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Caleb, From the Buffalo Cookbook, Published by the National Buffalo Association, POB 580, Ft. Pierre, SD, 57532, (605) 223-2829, Printed by State Publishing, Pierre, SD 57501, Copyright 1989<BR>
<BR>
Here's a couple of recipes I've tried myself, and I had to use a large stick to keep interlopers away from the Dutch......<BR>
<BR>
PLAIN BUFFALO STEW<BR>
2 Lb. Cubed Buffalo Meat<BR>
1 Onion, finely chopped (1 cup)<BR>
3 Medium Potatoes, peeled and sliced (2-3 cups)<BR>
Brown meat in small amount of oil in a large Dutch oven, then add Onion and cook until golden brown. Add tomato sauce, carrots and seasonings, cover, COOK 1 HOUR. Add potatoes and 1 cup water, if needed. Cover and cook 1/2 hour. Add mixed vegetables and cook another 1/2 hour. Keep heat very low, so stew is just simmering, at all times.<BR>
<BR>
From the Original Cowboy Cookbook, by 'Wild Wes' Medley, Published by Original Western Publications, Cairo, NE 68824, Copyright 1989<BR>
<BR>
RANCHLAND DEER POT ROAST<BR>
1/2 Cup Flour<BR>
1 Venison Roast - 2 inchest thick<BR>
2 Tablespoons Vegetable Oil<BR>
1/4 Cup chopped Celery<BR>
1 Carrot, chopped<BR>
2 Tablespoons chopped Onion<BR>
1/2 Teaspoon Salt<BR>
1/4 Teaspoon Pepper<BR>
1 Cup boiling Water<BR>
1 Cup Red Wine (it cooks off, so not to worry) <GGG><BR>
<BR>
Pound flour into meat. In a large skillet, brown meat in oil. Add vegetables, salt, pepper and 1/2 cup each of wine and water. Simmer COVERED for 1 hour. Add remaining liquids and simmer until tender.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
SOURDOUGH BREAD<BR>
<BR>
To be done properly, you have to make a 'starter', then when that is ready, use it to bake your bread or biscuits with.....<BR>
<BR>
SOURDOUGH STARTER<BR>
1 quart lukewarm Water<BR>
1 pkg. dry Yeast<BR>
2 Teaspoon Sugar<BR>
4 cup All-Pupose Flour<BR>
<BR>
Put water in crock; add yeast and sugar to soften. Stir in flour. Cover with a clean cloth. Let rise until mixture is light and slightly aged, about 2 days. Mixture will thin as it stands; add flour as needed. As you use the sourdough from the crock, replace it with equal amounts of flour and water to keep a full batch of 'starter' going.<BR>
<BR>
BLUE RIBBON SOURDOUGH BREAD<BR>
(Makes 2 large loaves)<BR>
2 cups Sourdough Starter<BR>
2 cups lukewarm Water (potato, rice or macoroni water if possible)<BR>
1/3 to 1/2 cup Sugar<BR>
1 tablespoon Salt<BR>
3 tablespoons Salad Oil or Butter (Butter is best)<BR>
1 Pkg Yeast<BR>
7 to 9 cups Flour<BR>
<BR>
Begin the night before by mixing the 'starter' with 2 cups each of flour and water. Mix well, cover and let sit in a warm place overnight. This is the new 'starter' you use for the recipe. <BR>
<BR>
In the morning take 2 cups from the mixture and pour the remaining sourdough into your 'starter' crock and refrigerate.<BR>
<BR>
Mix the starter with the water, sugar, salt and oil. Add yeast. Add flour to make a medium soft but not sticky dough. Knead well, until smooth and elastic (6-8 minutes).<BR>
<BR>
Place in a lightly greased bowl, turning once to grease surface of dough. Cover, let double in size (about 1 hour) in a warm place.<BR>
<BR>
Punch down and let rise again (this 2nd rise can be skipped to save time). Punch down, knead it lightly and cut into 2 equal pieces.<BR>
<BR>
To bake in a 12 inch Dutch, form each piece into a round loaf, place in a lightly greased oven, slice the top several times and allow to raise again.<BR>
<BR>
Pre-heat the lid and bake with heat from top and bottom for 15-20 minutes, remove half of bottom heat and continue baking 20-30 minutes or until browned and done. Cool on wire rack. ENJOY. <BR>
<BR>
Good luck with your project, and let us know how it comes out. Barney<BR>
<BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Linda, I have a .62 caliber 'rat trap' for sale..... It's not real quiet though....neighbors may get nervous when it goes off. Will take care of rats, large or small though...<g> hardtack</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2><B>Oh rats!</B> I still need mice hides. Now a muskrat coat would be nice....and looking at the "rat" that just chewed a hole in my screen on my screen poarch......I am getting ideas of going on a "rat" hunt. These guys are little brown/grey things, but they are the only things I am permitted to <B>"trap" </B>around here. Guess I better go out and lay or lie my trap line down in the morning to catch these little monsters. Wonder what it is going to cost me to replace a huge screen on the porch? Anyway......does anyone sell little "rat" traps ?????? ;o) And skinning those little things will be much easier when I think of the damage to my screen. <BR><BR><I>Linda Holley</I><BR><BR><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:beaverboy@sofast.net">beaverboy@sofast.net</A> wrote:<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Wooden canteens were used during the Rev. War, being issued to the regulars. In last Book of Buckskinning Rex Allen Norman mentions the use of wood canteens, he also has great information in his "1837 Sketch Book of the Western Fur Trade", in a few trade list a few inventories include a canteen, few but they are listed.
I would me more than happy to try and help out, just email me off-list,
Frank Sablan
Midland, Texas
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Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy". Sir, I have been building custom rifles since 1972, I have been wearing buckskins since 1973. I'm just retiring from a lifetime of teaching high school history. I currently have 5 rifle orders on the bench waiting to be completed. The oldest is 1.5 years old. I have already built and delivered 7 rifles and 4 pistols all flintlock some with carving all with engraving Since last spring. My prices are higher than ever. Yet I have more orders than ever before. I used to build a rifle a month in the 1970s. Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way. I have always felt that if you want a rifle that looks like a gun from the 18-19 century then build it with 18th century tools and techniques. It takes a long time to build guns in such a manner. Especially if I want to charge even close to what it costs in labor and materials for such a gun. I figure with a skill like mine I'm worth at least $50-75 per hour. My plumber and car mechanic make more and have less skill with tools. I can hand file a hinge with no gaps. My plumber can't do that. At a cost of 50-75 per hour I end up usually charging between 3-5 thousand dollars per rifle. Yes that sounds like a lot but it is not. Not when people make 35-75 thousand per year and up. I know a factory worker in Ohio who works with his wife and the two of them together make 140,000. per year. Houses in Colorado sell on the average for 150-200 thousand dollars. New trucks cost 30+ per vehicle. I hate to be critical but a 4500 dollar rifle at modern wages is a lot less than a 20 dollar rifle was to a farmer in 1810 who only made 80 dollars per year. Everyone is free to shoot what ever they want but if you want a fine rifle that shoots plumb center, and you want it to look exactly like the ones actually carried by the trappers and you want it to be ast dependable as thy're guns were then you should order a fine hand made rifle and expect to wait anywhere from 12 -24 months for it. I have been waiting on a custom barrel from a famous maker for 14 months now and I know he like me, works every day all day clear up into the evening. One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones. This most recent rifle I'm finishing this week I worked on for the last 2 evenings clear until 9:30pm on + all day. have a good day.
beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:Scott,
They're building a simple trade gun not painting the Sistine Chapel
Ceiling. 12 month's is too long to wait for anything, in my humble
opinion. If my company made people wait 12 months for a project we'd be
out of business. Perhaps they've been putting us off for so long that we
are getting used to such long waits. If someone tells you 12 months in the
gun business better figure on 16 months. I cannot believe there is that
big of a demand for custom made muzzleloaders nowadays. I tell you they
just need to work 40 hours a week like the rest of us.
Vent liners just stick out and are not needed, in my opinion. You
would think in those 12 months they make a guy wait they'd be able to cone
the inside of the vent hole like they did in the old days with out power
tools. We can justify modern stuff all we want, I was just stating my
humble opinion on unneeded and unhistorical vent liners. You can spot the
silver rings a mile away. I would never have one, ever.
Fur companys of old would order hundreds of guns at a time. I know
they didn't have to wait nearly as long. And those gunsmith's had it a lot
tougher.
If I could afford a hand forged barrel and gun, I'd have one. When I
win the lottery!
Sincerely,
Beaverboy
> I've dealt with and owned guns from TVM and they do great work! I never
> had a 12 month wait but they may be pretty busy nowadays. 12 months is
> pretty close give or take a few months, to what most custom builders I
> talked with quoted- hey, I ordered a GOOD oak canteen in September and
> won't get it until June! and regarding Taylor Anderson's guns-
> excellent craftsmanship- never had one of his but I saw a 1817 common
> rifle he did and it looked like a WELL kept original, beautiful! I
> have to agree with an earlier posting, why pay $700 for a mass
> produced gun when you can get a custom for just alittle more? Touch
> hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you complaining that your
> barrel isn't hand forged? What about the stock- was it cut down, cut
> out and finished COMPLETELY by hand? Are ALL of your clothes made from
> handwoven fabric or hand tanned leather using hand spun thread, hand
> stitched buttonholes, hand dyed to whatever color it is now? I can
> understand the interest in being totally authentic but there are some
> things I think we can deal with... maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with the
> hunt for that perfect trade gun!
>
> Dios, Libertad y Tejas
> Scott McMahon
> S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co.
>
> "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten.
Not
> any
> sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has
> one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and
> every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them."
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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>
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<P>Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy". Sir, I have been building custom rifles since 1972, I have been wearing buckskins since 1973. I'm just retiring from a lifetime of teaching high school history. I currently have 5 rifle orders on the bench waiting to be completed. The oldest is 1.5 years old. I have already built and delivered 7 rifles and 4 pistols all flintlock some with carving all with engraving Since last spring. My prices are higher than ever. Yet I have more orders than ever before. I used to build a rifle a month in the 1970s. Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way. I have always felt that if you want a rifle that looks like a gun from the 18-19 century then build it with 18th century tools and techniques. It takes a long time to build guns in such a manner. Especially if I want to charge even close to what it costs in labor and materials for such a gun. I figure with a skill like mine I'm worth at least $50-75 per hour. My plumber and car mechanic make more and have less skill with tools. I can hand file a hinge with no gaps. My plumber can't do that. At a cost of 50-75 per hour I end up usually charging between 3-5 thousand dollars per rifle. Yes that sounds like a lot but it is not. Not when people make 35-75 thousand per year and up. I know a factory worker in Ohio who works with his wife and the two of them together make 140,000. per year. Houses in Colorado sell on the average for 150-200 thousand dollars. New trucks cost 30+ per vehicle. I hate to be critical but a 4500 dollar rifle at modern wages is a lot less than a 20 dollar rifle was to a farmer in 1810 who only made 80 dollars per year. Everyone is free to shoot what ever they want but if you want a fine rifle that shoots plumb center, and you want it to look exactly like the ones actually carried by the trappers and you want it to be ast dependable as thy're guns were then you should order a fine hand made rifle and expect to wait anywhere from 12 -24 months for it. I have been waiting on a custom barrel from a famous maker for 14 months now and I know he like me, works every day all day clear up into the evening. One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones. This most recent rifle I'm finishing this week I worked on for the last 2 evenings clear until 9:30pm on + all day. have a good day.
<P> <B><I>beaverboy@sofast.net</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Scott,<BR>They're building a simple trade gun not painting the Sistine Chapel<BR>Ceiling. 12 month's is too long to wait for anything, in my humble<BR>opinion. If my company made people wait 12 months for a project we'd be<BR>out of business. Perhaps they've been putting us off for so long that we<BR>are getting used to such long waits. If someone tells you 12 months in the<BR>gun business better figure on 16 months. I cannot believe there is that<BR>big of a demand for custom made muzzleloaders nowadays. I tell you they<BR>just need to work 40 hours a week like the rest of us.<BR>Vent liners just stick out and are not needed, in my opinion. You<BR>would think in those 12 months they make a guy wait they'd be able to cone<BR>the inside of the vent hole like they did in the old days with out power<BR>tools. We can justify modern stuff all we want, I was just stating my<BR>humble opinion on unneeded and unhistorical vent liners. You can spot the<BR>silver rings a mile away. I would never have one, ever.<BR>Fur companys of old would order hundreds of guns at a time. I know<BR>they didn't have to wait nearly as long. And those gunsmith's had it a lot<BR>tougher.<BR>If I could afford a hand forged barrel and gun, I'd have one. When I<BR>win the lottery!<BR>Sincerely,<BR>Beaverboy<BR><BR><BR>> I've dealt with and owned guns from TVM and they do great work! I never<BR>> had a 12 month wait but they may be pretty busy nowadays. 12 months is<BR>> pretty close give or take a few months, to what most custom builders I<BR>> talked with quoted- hey, I ordered a GOOD oak canteen in September and<BR>> won't get it until June! and regarding Taylor Anderson's guns-<BR>> excellent craftsmanship- never had one of his but I saw a 1817 common<BR>> rifle he did and it looked like a WELL kept original, beautiful! I<BR>> have to agree with an earlier posting, why pay $700 for a mass<BR>> produced gun when you can get a custom for just alittle more? Touch<BR>> hole liners- can't comment on that BUT are you complaining that your<BR>> barrel isn't hand forged? What about the stock- was it cut down, cut<BR>> out and finished COMPLETELY by hand? Are ALL of your clothes made from<BR>> handwoven fabric or hand tanned leather using hand spun thread, hand<BR>> stitched buttonholes, hand dyed to whatever color it is now? I can<BR>> understand the interest in being totally authentic but there are some<BR>> things I think we can deal with... maybe I'm wrong. Good luck with the<BR>> hunt for that perfect trade gun!<BR>><BR>> Dios, Libertad y Tejas<BR>> Scott McMahon<BR>> S.W. Frontiers Mntd. Ranging Co.<BR>><BR>> "Hays's Rangers have come, their appearance never to be forgotten.<BR>Not<BR>> any<BR>> sort of uniforms, but well mounted and doubly well armed: each man has<BR>> one or two Colt's revolvers besides ordinary pistols, a sword, and<BR>> every man a rifle....The Mexicans are terribly afraid of them."<BR>> General Ethan Allen Hitchcock<BR>> n.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html<BR>><BR>><BR>> _________________________________________________________________<BR>> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*<BR>> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail<BR>><BR>><BR>> ----------------------<BR>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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>Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I
usually don't have time. this particular >letter caused me to want to respond
to "Beaver Boy".
>Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use
only a hand held electric drill. All >other tools are hand tools. I build
them The old fashioned way.
>One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones.
Mike,
I'm glad you responded. Some folks are bigger in the opinion area than
education area.
Everyone thinks that these gunmakers have big factories with lots of
employees and they make gross overgeneralizations. You have well stated what
it takes to make a scratch gun.
Matt and Toni from TVM are good friends of mine. They work out of a 2 car
garage, the front half being the store and the back half being the shop.
They have 2 builders, a filer, and a finisher. Every one of their guns
starts with a chunk of wood. Matt makes all the stocks....they don't use
precarved ones. They chisel away at wood like everyone else. Each gun is
made to the customers specs. You can choose the LOP and drop, what
components you want on the gun, type of finish, etc. They work 12 hours
days, and make over 600 guns a year, that's about 3 guns per day for a 5 day
work week. When you consider the time required to build a gun and raw parts
running from $500-$700 per gun, their guns, beginning priced at $800, are one
of the best bargains out there............and by folks who are working their
butts off to make a living.
Dave Kanger
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">>Normally I don't reply to the various articles I read in this web site as I usually don't have time. this particular >letter caused me to want to respond to "Beaver Boy". <BR>
>Now it takes 5 weeks of working 8-10 hours per day to build a rifle. I use only a hand held electric drill. All >other tools are hand tools. I build them The old fashioned way. <BR>
>One should walk a mile in my moccasins before one throws stones. <BR>
<BR>
Mike,<BR>
I'm glad you responded. Some folks are bigger in the opinion area than education area.<BR>
Everyone thinks that these gunmakers have big factories with lots of employees and they make gross overgeneralizations. You have well stated what it takes to make a scratch gun.<BR>
<BR>
Matt and Toni from TVM are good friends of mine. They work out of a 2 car garage, the front half being the store and the back half being the shop. They have 2 builders, a filer, and a finisher. Every one of their guns starts with a chunk of wood. Matt makes all the stocks....they don't use precarved ones. They chisel away at wood like everyone else. Each gun is made to the customers specs. You can choose the LOP and drop, what components you want on the gun, type of finish, etc. They work 12 hours days, and make over 600 guns a year, that's about 3 guns per day for a 5 day work week. When you consider the time required to build a gun and raw parts running from $500-$700 per gun, their guns, beginning priced at $800, are one of the best bargains out there............and by folks who are working their butts off to make a living.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Kanger</FONT></HTML>
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Concerning the comments about shooters and custom gun orders. Yes, the NMLRA membership is staying static which is good it means the organization is growing. Several years ago the NMLRA determined that the average length of time to stay a member was about 5-7 years. Which means every year some folks get bored and change hobbies. Which also means that every year new folks start joining and want to own a rifle. If the membership is static then we are gaining as many as we are losing. A lot of my customers are not members of any black powder organization. They are just gun collectors who collect antique guns, or they are folks who decided they wanted to own a flintlock long rifle. As far as the comments about how long it takes to build a fine hand made rifle. I can't speak for others. I work at it pretty hard and I don't have any employees. Just me, I do all the lock filing, polishing, inletting shaping and finish work. I personally feel that 11-12 months to wait on a rifle from a single maker like myself or from TVM is a good deal. If I attended all the shows TVM goes to and took orders I would be overwhelmed with work. I 'm very happy to keep the small number of orders I now have. I know another builder in Ohio who would prefer to go un-named who builds one rifle per month. I can build one about every 4-5 weeks. I think that is about the norm. I'm sure if I had a set up like some of the spanish shotgun makers like A&A then I could turn out guns faster. But I like things the way they are. I don't advertize but you might take a look at the CLA (Contemporary Long Rifle Association) Website. There are some mighty fine guns for sale there from some very good builders.
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
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<P>
<P> Concerning the comments about shooters and custom gun orders. Yes, the NMLRA membership is staying static which is good it means the organization is growing. Several years ago the NMLRA determined that the average length of time to stay a member was about 5-7 years. Which means every year some folks get bored and change hobbies. Which also means that every year new folks start joining and want to own a rifle. If the membership is static then we are gaining as many as we are losing. A lot of my customers are not members of any black powder organization. They are just gun collectors who collect antique guns, or they are folks who decided they wanted to own a flintlock long rifle. As far as the comments about how long it takes to build a fine hand made rifle. I can't speak for others. I work at it pretty hard and I don't have any employees. Just me, I do all the lock filing, polishing, inletting shaping and finish work. I personally feel that 11-12 months to wait on a rifle from a single maker like myself or from TVM is a good deal. If I attended all the shows TVM goes to and took orders I would be overwhelmed with work. I 'm very happy to keep the small number of orders I now have. I know another builder in Ohio who would prefer to go un-named who builds one rifle per month. I can build one about every 4-5 weeks. I think that is about the norm. I'm sure if I had a set up like some of the spanish shotgun makers like A&A then I could turn out guns faster. But I like things the way they are. I don't advertize but you might take a look at the CLA (Contemporary Long Rifle Association) Website. There are some mighty fine guns for sale there from some very good builders. </P><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/launch/mailsig/*http://launch.yahoo.com/u2">U2 on LAUNCH</a> - Exclusive medley & videos from Greatest Hits CD
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tip's for Priming the Pan
Date: 08 Nov 2002 09:18:49 EST
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In a message dated 11/8/02 8:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes:
> fuller toward the
>
Keep the prime away from the touch hole so you do not fill the touch hole and
then have it burn like a wick (which causes delays in ignition). You want
the primer to ignite and flash a ball of fire threw the touch hole to ignite
the main charge.
And shame on you for bowing to peer pressure and shooting only your cap gun.
Y.M.O.S.
C.T. Oakes
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/8/02 8:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes:
<BR>Keep the prime away from the touch hole so you do not fill the touch hole and then have it burn like a wick (which causes delays in ignition). You want the primer to ignite and flash a ball of fire threw the touch hole to ignite the main charge.
<BR>
<BR>And shame on you for bowing to peer pressure and shooting only your cap gun.
Touch hole liners are very old. Platinum and gold were the material of choice for english gunmakers. The following gun makers were using them in both dbl flint shot guns and dueling pistols: John Manton, Joe Manton, Henry Nock. Several others also. Touch hole liners were being used before General Ashley ever took a keel boat up the Missouri.
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<P>Touch hole liners are very old. Platinum and gold were the material of choice for english gunmakers. The following gun makers were using them in both dbl flint shot guns and dueling pistols: John Manton, Joe Manton, Henry Nock. Several others also. Touch hole liners were being used before General Ashley ever took a keel boat up the Missouri.
<P> </P><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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the following comes from a website of the 1812 marines, now it is not intended that this is the final say-so in the canteen subject, but it is intended to help date thier use, I am still searching my archives for further information to support thier existance and use.
Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas
CANTEENS:
There is only one documentation for canteens for Marine use. This is listed in an order filled for Lt. McKnight for use of Marines on board the ship of war " Delaware: 363, wooden canteens with linen straps, 363 painted knapsacks with straps". This order also indicates Marines were supplied with
blankets out of their uniform allowance and that hammocks come from the Navy as issued to the whole ship's company. Marines' hammock numbers as well as mess numbers were the highest in the ship's company as they were issued hammock and assigned to mess last. The above order was filled at Philadelphia, PA on 7 December 1797. This order and this alone is the only indication of canteens for Marines is the documentation based on for the use of our canteens. They are painted red with Roman white letters USM. The straps are natural linen or cotton and not leather.
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Could anyone on the list let me know if they've heard from Mike Pierce
"Hawk" recently? Needed to get in touch with him by E-Mail, but
things are bouncing back saying his mailbox is full. Anyone???????
Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Could anyone on the list let me know if they've heard from Mike Pierce<BR>
"Hawk" recently? Needed to get in touch with him by E-Mail, but<BR>
things are bouncing back saying his mailbox is full. Anyone???????<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Traphand<BR>
Rick Petzoldt<BR>
Traphand@aol.com<BR>
</B></FONT></HTML>
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Thanks to all vets for the freedom we now enjoy. My father was from the
small island of Guam. He lived there during the Japanese occupation. Soon
after the liberation from Japanese control one way his family said thanks was
for all the sons to join the U.S. military. Unfortunately he had to return
to the island only to escort all of his brothers bodies back home. He
instilled in my brother and I the love he had for the great country of ours
and what they have fought for. I will soon go back home and visit his grave
and say thanks again.
Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks to all vets for the freedom we now enjoy. My father was from the small island of Guam. He lived there during the Japanese occupation. Soon after the liberation from Japanese control one way his family said thanks was for all the sons to join the U.S. military. Unfortunately he had to return to the island only to escort all of his brothers bodies back home. He instilled in my brother and I the love he had for the great country of ours and what they have fought for. I will soon go back home and visit his grave and say thanks again.<BR>
<BR>
Frank Sablan<BR>
Midland,Texas</FONT></HTML>
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tip's for Priming the Pan
Date: 11 Nov 2002 21:32:26 EST
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In a message dated 11/8/02 5:34:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes:
> The jist of the tip was to prim the
> pan fuller on one side but I can't now remember was it fuller toward the
> touch hole or away?
Away. If you get prime banked against the vent, it acts like a fuse & slows
things down. Priming the outer end of the pan heavier seems to throw the
flame into the vent -- goes "bang!" quicker.
Nauga Mok
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 11/8/02 5:34:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, TheGreyWolfe@webtv.net writes:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The jist of the tip was to prim the<BR>
pan fuller on one side but I can't now remember was it fuller toward the<BR>
Away. If you get prime banked against the vent, it acts like a fuse & slows things down. Priming the outer end of the pan heavier seems to throw the flame into the vent -- goes "bang!" quicker. <BR>
Geri, From Colt: An American Legend by R. L. Wilson, published by Artabras
Division of Abbeville Press, N.Y., N.Y., 1985
Colt Paterson rifles and revolvers were being prototyped by a number of
Colts' 'mechanics' from 1832-36, and were first patented in England in 1835.
In 1836, Colt obtained a U.S. Patent and founded The Patent Arms
Manufacturing Company in Paterson, N.J. that same year.
"No.1 Baby Paterson, initial production model of the Colt revolver, beginning
1837" (pg 9)
"Until late in 1836, Colt was equipped on his demonstrations and sales trips
with only the prototypes made by Pearson, et al. But by the end of the year
the first production pieces had been completed; first the No.1 Ring Lever
Rifle, and second the No.1 Pocket or 'Baby Paterson' pistol."
Ironically, considering today's universal identification of the Colt name
with handguns, his initial revolvers were the longarms."
(pg 16)
It's probably necessary to keep in mind that even though these 'production'
guns were available to civilians, individual officers and soldiers, Colt
didn't make a lot of guns from 1837-42 (a total of 1,912 longarms and 2,850
Handguns) and most were snapped up by the Republic Of Texas.
Barney
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Geri, From Colt: An American Legend by R. L. Wilson, published by Artabras Division of Abbeville Press, N.Y., N.Y., 1985<BR>
<BR>
Colt Paterson rifles and revolvers were being prototyped by a number of Colts' 'mechanics' from 1832-36, and were first patented in England in 1835. In 1836, Colt obtained a U.S. Patent and founded The Patent Arms Manufacturing Company in Paterson, N.J. that same year.<BR>
<BR>
"No.1 Baby Paterson, initial production model of the Colt revolver, beginning 1837" (pg 9)<BR>
<BR>
"Until late in 1836, Colt was equipped on his demonstrations and sales trips with only the prototypes made by Pearson, et al. But by the end of the year the first production pieces had been completed; first the No.1 Ring Lever Rifle, and second the No.1 Pocket or 'Baby Paterson' pistol." <BR>
<BR>
Ironically, considering today's universal identification of the Colt name with handguns, his initial revolvers were the longarms."<BR>
(pg 16)<BR>
<BR>
It's probably necessary to keep in mind that even though these 'production' guns were available to civilians, individual officers and soldiers, Colt didn't make a lot of guns from 1837-42 (a total of 1,912 longarms and 2,850 Handguns) and most were snapped up by the Republic Of Texas. <BR>
<BR>
Barney<BR>
<BR>
</B></FONT></HTML>
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<DIV> Tickets are $10 each, or 6 for $50. Proceeds go to the A.M.M. Land Fund. As of today's mail there are 291 tickets in the drawing box. Your odds are good. If you don't have a ticket blank, just send checks to me:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Randal Bublitz-Land Fund Clerk</DIV>
<DIV>5447 Princeton Dr.</DIV>
<DIV>Santa Maria CA 93455</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> The drawing will be early the first week of December (depending on when I can get to my bank, as my Banker will draw the tickets and Notorize the result). Get your tickets in before then, and you have a good chance of winning. The odds as of today are 1:291 alot better than lottery odds...!!! Good Luck to those who participate. YFAB, Randy</DIV>
I met a man today who has two bulls. He wants to sell them. If anyone is
interested. Contact me off list.
Ridge Pole
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I met a man today who has two bulls. He wants to sell them. If anyone is interested. Contact me off list.<BR>
<BR>
Ridge Pole</FONT></HTML>
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*Hand sewn leather wallets, wallet is made of 7-8 oz. veg. tan leather with 2
pockets made of 3-4 oz. leather. (one left in natural leather color, another
in dark brown) $28.00 each
*Hand sewn 7-8 ounce veg. tanned leather shot containers medium (holds about
17 shots of 70 grains of 7.5 shot)$19.00 each
*leather canteens two round shaped, one heart shaped, hand sewn with linen
thread, lined with a mixture of beeswax/pitch,leather carrying strap, holds
about 6-8 cups. $70 each.
each items price includes shipping and handling.
no pictures available just yet....please email off-list for inquiries
Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas
coming soon hand knitted socks mid-calf length and wool caps ..pics available
soon on the knitted items
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I have available for shipment:<BR>
*hand woven Hemp garters dyed in pecan hulls with braintan tabs and ties. $28.00 <BR>
*Hand sewn 3-4 ounce veg. tanned leather shot containers small(holds about 12 shots of 70 grains of 7.5 shot) $12.00 each.<BR>
*Hand sewn leather wallets, wallet is made of 7-8 oz. veg. tan leather with 2 pockets made of 3-4 oz. leather. (one left in natural leather color, another in dark brown) $28.00 each<BR>
*Hand sewn 7-8 ounce veg. tanned leather shot containers medium (holds about 17 shots of 70 grains of 7.5 shot)$19.00 each<BR>
*leather canteens two round shaped, one heart shaped, hand sewn with linen thread, lined with a mixture of beeswax/pitch,leather carrying strap, holds about 6-8 cups. $70 each.<BR>
<BR>
each items price includes shipping and handling.<BR>
<BR>
no pictures available just yet....please email off-list for inquiries<BR>
<BR>
Frank Sablan<BR>
Midland,Texas<BR>
<BR>
coming soon hand knitted socks mid-calf length and wool caps ..pics available soon on the knitted items<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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I am trying to compile a list of PIE recipes: I know this has been on before
but I am very poor at finding anything in the archives. Will you please post
how you make pie?
Thank you.
Your Humble Servant
Ridge Pole
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I am trying to compile a list of PIE recipes: I know this has been on before but I am very poor at finding anything in the archives. Will you please post how you make pie?<BR>
Thank you.<BR>
Your Humble Servant<BR>
<BR>
Ridge Pole</FONT></HTML>
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The kind where you could have trouble walking after drinking to much of it.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The kind where you could have trouble walking after drinking to much of it.</FONT></HTML>
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Ridge Pole, Here is a recipe that I got of the list a while back, and it was
just delicious:
1 Gallon Apple Cider
1 Cup Brown Sugar
1 Cup Honey
5 Cinnamon Sticks
7 Whole Cloves
Juice of 1/2 Lemon
1 Fifth Everclear (or Cap't Morgans if not avail, but will change the taste)
Simmer all except the Everclear or Rum for 45 minutes; will reduce slightly.
Strain out spices; let cool to room temperature.
Add the Fifth of Alcohol.
The longer it sets, the smoother it gets.
Barney
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Ridge Pole, Here is a recipe that I got of the list a while back, and it was just delicious:<BR>
<BR>
1 Gallon Apple Cider<BR>
1 Cup Brown Sugar<BR>
1 Cup Honey<BR>
5 Cinnamon Sticks<BR>
7 Whole Cloves<BR>
Juice of 1/2 Lemon<BR>
<BR>
1 Fifth Everclear (or Cap't Morgans if not avail, but will change the taste)<BR>
<BR>
Simmer all except the Everclear or Rum for 45 minutes; will reduce slightly. Strain out spices; let cool to room temperature.<BR>
<BR>
Add the Fifth of Alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
The longer it sets, the smoother it gets.<BR>
<BR>
Barney</B></FONT></HTML>
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