Heard his talk and did his tour a number of years ago. VERY worth whatever
amount the entrance fee is. Fred knows his stuff!!
Patrick J. Surrena
Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449
Colorado
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Heard his talk and did his tour a number of years ago. VERY worth whatever amount the entrance fee is. Fred knows his stuff!!<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#800000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Patrick J. Surrena<BR>
Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449<BR>
Colorado</FONT></HTML>
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>PS By the way,what do you know about the Mississippi
>Choctaw Indians ? Anything.>>
George, for basic history and geo-political dynamics affecting most southeast tribes...go to Charles Hudson's book "Southeastern Indians"/"Native Americans of the Southeast" or something along those lines. The last couple chapters are fairly detailed in pre-removal to removal tribal locations. He mentions the Choctaw tribe a good many times.
Then go to the back and look up his sources!
Hope that helps...
-C.Kent
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Subject: Re:MtMan-List: Traps for Cooking? what a joke
Date: 08 Jul 2002 23:18:18 GMT
WindWalker,
I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that they did it historically? Just curious.
Teton
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Subject: Re:MtMan-List: Traps for Cooking? what a joke
Date: 08 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400
Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting.
Also dying. it helps kill the scent.
As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so.
But Im sure some did.
Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the rust
ans kill the scent as best as possible.
One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap"
Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls ect
The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being made
at the time and were in high demand.
Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era.
{See Williamsburg Journals}
Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only.
The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the dye..
And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the trap
.Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available.
Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being
made in volume.
On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote:
> WindWalker,
>
> I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that they did it historically? Just curious.
>
> Teton
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
----------------------
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The last word on trap cooking{ he thought]
Date: 09 Jul 2002 11:40:31 EDT
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In a message dated 7/9/2002 8:05:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
windwalker@fastmail.fm writes:
> I can see many of you have way to much "book" reading and little time
> as a professional trapper. Traps were Dyied. read the Hudson Bay Journals.
>
This thread is interesting, but just telling us to read the HBC Journals
provides no evidence. Where's the documentation and/or citations that traps
were waxed and dyed?
It seems to me that short of that, it's still speculation and falls into the
"if they had it they'da used it" or "we know it works today so it musta
worked then" theory.
Barney
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 7/9/2002 8:05:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, windwalker@fastmail.fm writes:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I can see many of you have way to much "book" reading and little time<BR>
as a professional trapper. Traps were Dyied. read the Hudson Bay Journals.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
This thread is interesting, but just telling us to read the HBC Journals provides no <U>evidence</U>. Where's the documentation and/or citations that traps were waxed and dyed?<BR>
<BR>
It seems to me that short of that, it's still speculation and falls into the "if they had it they'da used it" or "we know it works today so it musta worked then" theory.<BR>
<BR>
Barney </B></FONT></HTML>
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It's Global Warming caused by our auto exhaust and spent gun powder and we're
all gonna die. On a brighter note, the same scientist telling us global
warming is gonna kill us all told us 30 years ago we were heading into an Ice
Age and we're all gonna die. So by driving our cars and shooting our guns
have saved ourselves? I'm so confused.
Longshot
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">It's Global Warming caused by our auto exhaust and spent gun powder and we're all gonna die. On a brighter note, the same scientist telling us global warming is gonna kill us all told us 30 years ago we were heading into an Ice Age and we're all gonna die. So by driving our cars and shooting our guns have saved ourselves? I'm so confused.
I'll get in on this one with my receipt for "Wolf's Breath". Here it is...<BR>
<BR>
1/2 Gallon Apple Cider<BR>
5th Of Seagrams VO<BR>
5th Of Yukon Jack<BR>
Sm. Bottle Grand Marnier<BR>
2 (or more) Cinnamon Sticks<BR>
<BR>
Mix all liquid ingredients then throw in the Cinnamon sticks, cap the jar and let the whole thing steep for a couple of days, weeks, whatever. The longer the better. <BR>
<BR>
It's a bit pricy, but you end up with full gallon of the concoction, and believe me, I've had to beat people down and put a lock on the door of my lodge to stop the pilfering! <GGG><BR>
<BR>
Barney<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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</B></FONT></HTML>
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>Please be nice. Otherwise he will not share his discovery, and we shall
>remain, together with all of the L&C experts, forever in the dark?
>
>Pablo
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:06 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line
>
> Which is about as likely as me winning the Lotto ! ! ! !
>> !
>> If you don't mind, figure out the difference between Shit and Shineola,
>> then share your knowledge with us.
>> Pendleton #1572
Webster's II New Riverside University Dictionary has :
"Sh.." - we all know this one, a body function/waste, a deposit of waste, some folks are full of it.
"Shine" - 1.to emit light:Beam. 2.to reflect light:Glint. 3.to distinguish oneself in a field or activity:Excel.
"ola" - not known, but knowing Larry he may have mis-spelled the word, possibly "olla" - 1.wide mouthed jar or pot made of earthenware. 2. an olla podrida.
Pablo - bring out some new wares, how about some wide mouth earthenware jars with to be used for "when nature calls" when in confined areas, with all the fires around anyone with a hot load would have no problem keeping safety in mind.
You could call them "For Shinging Times", "Shineolla Pots" or "Larry's Thunder Mugs" - Larry would Excel. - what do you think. Brother you could clean up.
Concho [HRD]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Historical Research & Development
"ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
See the AMM site for more supporters of this event.
12 oz Bar syrup (Mix 3 cup water with 5 cups sugar, heat till sugar is disloved)
Mix all ingredients together, cool and ENJOY. More than one glass will cause one to retire to bed early!! If any of you are going to be at the Green River Lake camp this next week, I'll share.
Dennis Knapp aka Sticher
Southern Idaho
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I thought we was talkin' bout one or a pair of them mugs named after Larry ! Dennis I have some really good home made wine, not bad even warm - got tired of waiting for it to cool.
Watch the skyline when leaving and do come back.
Concho [HRD]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Historical Research & Development
"ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
See the AMM site for more supporters of this event.
On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:34:35
Double Edge Forge wrote:
>
>
>"Well...My wife has a real nice set of."
>
> Hardtack,
> One.. That is too damned easy and Two.... I ain't sayin' a word till you
>set that brace of horse pistols down..<G>.
>D
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Went to Pinedale Wy and Fred did a talk on the contrubutions of Robinson,
Rezner and Hoback. Their going thru Yellowstone with Henry. Finding of South
Pass and Union Pass and may be getting to Salt Lake long before Bridger. Fred
will be at Ft. Bridger for Labor day.
Better to count horse ribs than horse tracks
Mark 'Roadkill" Loader
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hello the camp
<BR>Went to Pinedale Wy and Fred did a talk on the contrubutions of Robinson, Rezner and Hoback. Their going thru Yellowstone with Henry. Finding of South Pass and Union Pass and may be getting to Salt Lake long before Bridger. Fred will be at Ft. Bridger for Labor day.
<BR>Better to count horse ribs than horse tracks
<BR>Mark 'Roadkill" Loader</FONT></HTML>
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What you stated has merit, but in defense of most (not all) research author's and information stated by them, overall they give as much as possible at the time their research was done, but as we all know as time and methods of detection improve "what was correct at one time may and sometimes changes todays information from what was done a year or so before", look at the JFK stuff - 1st it was one group, then another and another, the story changes with each little piece added to the puzzle.
We have a friend (a retired ILL Historical Society Researcher) that has good solid information (proof) about Lewis' death - was not of his own doing, Crosby contacted the National Historical Society in Washington D.C. and was told if this information was used it would costs millions in just rewriting history, so nothing has been done.
So we go with what has been recorded, even though those that have seen the documents he has know better, agree of the mistake - nothing changed.
Sometimes you win and sometimes your just stuck knowing personally what is right or wrong.
Concho [HRD]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Historical Research & Development
"ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:23:50
jay geisinger wrote:
>Klahowya Sihks,
>
and after 180yrs in the telling it got turned around to the entire trap in the story. Them some folks always eager to show there knowledge start arguing over the jot and tittle of the damn thing and before you know it its a pissin match. Everyone of us has read something while doing research and took it as gospel only to find out we were wrong and that great author didn't really know scat, or at least only part of his scat.
>PoorBoy.....or Jay Geisinger for those of you that would prefer I use my real monicker.
Here's a letter written to customers looking for correct period soap from Clark & Sons Mercantile a few years ago, by the way this was the revised recipe from another that was dated approxmiately 50 years before the 1710 date of the new soap.
Date: May 19, 1996
Hey, ôThe Campö;
Subject: 1710 Recipe - Soap.
IÆm told the curing time because of the recipe (just discovered
this year in PA., in an early 1700Æs cookbook - 2nd edition dated
1710); is a lengthy 2 months.
WeÆre looking at December 1st for our supply to arrive. This will
be a correct early American Colonies Soap that is right in ever
possible way from its manufacture to its content. Researchers have
found soap particles that have this soap's material makeup in the
finds on the western frontier (Ohio), back then that was the wild
country.
YouÆll be reading about this soap in articles by Mark Baker, John
Curry and others in most of the magazines, such as Muzzleloader,
Backwoodsman, On The Trail, Tomahawk & Long Rifle, Smoke & Fire
News, etc.
Thank You
Buck
dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile
Thank you for the chance to further my knowledge and possibly give
you alittle help in your search too.
------------
I was the one that researched the soap recipe and found the folks that where still using it in the Amish communities today. I think Pablo of C&SM still has the soap listed in his wares.
My 1/2 cent worth.
Concho [HRD]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Historical Research & Development
"ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
See the AMM site for more supporters of this event.
------------------
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:03:51
Pat Quilter wrote:
>There are not many direct references in the journals to bathing habits or
>lack thereof, so one must read between the lines.
>
>First we need to recall the average custom of the day. In the days before
>running water, it was a major undertaking to prepare a bath, therefore,
>washing more than hands and face was fairly rare, except perhaps in the
>summer when streams and ponds were tolerable. There are some references
>commenting on the "amazingly good health" of the Indians, since it was
>believed that you had to wear a lot of clothes to avoid illness. This is the
>background mentality of the settlements. Travelers from Europe like Charles
>Dickens commented on the generally low standards of hygiene in America.
>Around 1900, America began its long march to becoming the plumbing and
>bathing capital of the world, but early 19th century conditions were
>distinctly grubby.
>
>Now imagine men living outdoors in the wilderness, wading muddy beaver ponds
>and daily skinning their catch and any other animals they hunted. One must
>assume that on the whole, trappers were about as greasy and grimy as we can
>imagine. There are some references, sometimes humerous, to washing in
>creeks, boiling shirts, etc, but they are related as exceptional cases
>worthy of comment. But, if it was hot enough to relish a dip in the creek,
>I imagine they did so. There are also some comments to going months without
>washing, hair matted, etc, which also must have been somewhat exceptional.
>Living outdoors around campfires, one pretty much gets used to various
>smells. Anyone who has cleaned a game animal realizes that your hands get
>rather gamy smelling and it's not that easy to wash off, even with soap.
>
>All that said, if they had soap, it assume it would have been the usual
>preparation made with lye and wood ashes. Also, certain plants produce a
>somewhat soapy effect.
>
>Pat Quilter
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Thanks for this additional info Mark. I don't think everyone at the museum is with the program. I sent an email to the address listed last time and got a response that they carry NO AJM and directed me to the Amon Carter and one one other museum. This should help. Thanks. Pat.
Patrick Surrena
AMM #1449
----------------------
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This period soap is done the same way it has always been made, in a large pan, cut into squares and left to cure, when cured it as hard as can be. I saw Buck Conner drive a square cut nail through a 1 inch pine board with a bar of the "1710" soap held in his palm, then wet it enough to make a lather to shave with. He told an interested lady at Ft. de Chartre that she could "colds cock her old man when he got out of hand with this soap and the cops would never find the instrument that did the job". <GGGGG>
Concho [HRD]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Historical Research & Development
"ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
See the AMM site for more supporters of this event.
On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:43:37
Glenn Darilek wrote:
>But remember, a "correct" recipe is just a part of the deal. My wife
>brought home some lye soap she bought from an outfit that sold soap
>"like your ancestors used." It was sold in a Styrofoam cup for a mold!
>
>I don't know what was done in the mountaineer era, but my grandmother
>would pour the soap into a rectangular mold, and when it partially dried
>she would cut the soap into cakes. As it completely dried, the faces
>would shrink, leaving concave sides on the cakes, especially on the top.
>That was a far cry from a Styrofoam cup shape. BTW I was using the soap
>for shaving until my wife threw it out because it attracted ants. I
>thought it served the ants right to eat soap. The soap must have still
>had some of the fat that was not converted to soap.
>
>Glenn Darilek
>Iron Burner
>
>
>>Subject: 1710 Recipe - Soap.
>
>>I'm told the curing time because of the recipe (just discovered
>>this year in PA., in an early 1700's cookbook - 2nd edition dated
>>1710); is a lengthy 2 months.
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
Sorry for the cross-posting, but I can't remember which of these lists had
this thread:
To those who were looking a while back... PC Magazine has a free utility
this month called TapeCalc 2. This contains a set of conversion tables for
Storage, Teperature, Time, Volume, Weight, etc, AND also contains a
calculator that prints a tape of your steps on the screen, which can then be
printed out for a hard copy.
Here's the link.... <A HREF="http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,372847,00.asp">TapeCalc 2: Tape Your Calculations</A>
Barney
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Sorry for the cross-posting, but I can't remember which of these lists had this thread:<BR>
<BR>
To those who were looking a while back... PC Magazine has a free utility this month called TapeCalc 2. This contains a set of conversion tables for Storage, Teperature, Time, Volume, Weight, etc, AND also contains a calculator that prints a tape of your steps on the screen, which can then be printed out for a hard copy.<BR>
<BR>
Here's the link.... <A HREF="http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,372847,00.asp">TapeCalc 2: Tape Your Calculations</A></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
Barney</B></FONT></HTML>
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soap and Hygiene - and more . . .
Date: 21 Jul 2002 21:08:16 -0700
This is a good point Dick,
I do research for the Pennsylvania Historical Society, in my research of hunters/outdoorsman/exployers of colonial times in PA and NY.
I have found accounts/journals of professional hunters and men of the woods writing that bathing on a regular schedule increased their success in taking game, moving around local natives (Indians) and others undetected, as did not smoking tobacco. They felt that odors whether human or as that of tobacco were very important if not present to having a better survival rate in these questionable times.
Their idea of scheduled bathing was once a week in cold weather (probably when coming into the settlements) and as often as possible in warm weather (streams being warmer in summer).
Buck Conner had an article about a prof. hunter from Pottsville PA in the T&LR magazine a few years ago that stated this hunter would come in on Sat. to handle business for the game collected during that week, leaving on Sun. evening to go back out into his woods.
I believe this is what "scheduling" is referring to in many of the accounts read, being woodsmen, hunters, scouts, etc. - they came in and handled business, made reports and got resupplied for the next outing, at that time they bathed.
Even today a good bow hunter does everything possible to stop body odor, special washing soap for them and their clothing and most do not smoke in their hunting clothes or get near a camp fire, again the odor of anything un-natural to the animals and others is a "give-away" problem.
Later
Concho.
-----------------
>
>Something else you may want to read is the biography of Plenty-Coups of the Crows. He tells (through the interpreter) that bathing was done frequently and in all seasons. The reason being that odors can give away the presence of a person to both game and enemy. Trappers learned a lot from the Indians........
>
>For what it's worth. . . .
>Richard James
>
>Richard James
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we discussed capote patterns, in our discussion he was researching a more correct pattern of capote very similar to the great lakes capot, with the arms being slightly curved and the length being mid-thigh and having more of a cuff , and the waist being abit more flared rather than the straight cut of the typical patterns of today. I have made several capotes from paul muellers pattern , but if anyone has a pattern of my description or a place for me to obtain one I would appreciate any info and input.<BR>
<BR>
thanks<BR>
frank sablan<BR>
Odessa, texas</FONT></HTML>
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<DIV>Have you checked out the Mountain's sketch books (vol 1 & 2) and the voyager's sketchbook? There are many different coat patterns like you described, made from varying materials. hardtack</DIV>
<DIV>ps to Windwalker, northwest trader is Paul Mueller. <s></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Hello list,<BR>I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we discussed capote patterns, in our discussion he was researching a more correct pattern of capote very similar to the great lakes capot, with the arms being slightly curved and the length being mid-thigh and having more of a cuff , and the waist being abit more flared rather than the straight cut of the typical patterns of today. I have made several capotes from paul muellers pattern , but if anyone has a pattern of my description or a place for me to obtain one I would appreciate any info and input.<BR><BR>thanks<BR>frank sablan<BR>Odessa, texas</FONT> </FONT>
i will pull those books out and look, has anyone made one from those spec.s,
thanks for the info
frank
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">i will pull those books out and look, has anyone made one from those spec.s, <BR>
<BR>
thanks for the info<BR>
frank</FONT></HTML>
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<DIV>Frank, I haven't, but wish I'd have checked them out when I made my capote. I used the standard NW traders pattern for a caped canoe capote. It Is a shorter capote, no fringe, and has a cape and coller- rather than a hood. I am satisfied with it. I wanted a less cumbersome capote. I made it from a Whitney 'horse blanket'. This is a smaller, thicker blanket. The coat comes to mid thigh, and doesn't have the bothersome fringe, etc... on it. I'll send you a pic. If anyone else wants pics, let me know..... I'll send to you too. I only wish it were a bit more 'tailored', as opposed to the square cut style. Oh well, live and learn. hardtack </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">i will pull those books out and look, has anyone made one from those spec.s, <BR><BR>thanks for the info<BR>frank</FONT> </FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this Labor Day:<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Steve, It's scheduled for Labor Day weekend, August 31 - September 2, 2002. Contact info is The Fort Bridger Rendezvous Association @ (307) 782-3842.<BR>
<BR>
Barney</B></FONT></HTML>
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The wind is everything and Marijuana
Date: 28 Jul 2002 20:54:29 -0700
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On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 22:44:59
beaverboy wrote:
I don't think it is possible for a human to get their bodies clean enough to avoid detection by long nosed critters..........
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Beaverboy,
For years the bowhunter have used Baking Soda to cut the human odor by rubbing on themselves and their clothing, then using different animal urines on a strip of cloth tied to their boot lases.
Now there are several makers of a product that cuts the odor and the shine out of clothing with a special soap and spray, plus a body soap and shampoo. Saw a demo on this stuff and the drug dogs really get messed up with smelling it, will probably be taken off the market because of that one reason is what we have been told here at Penn State.
Concho [HRD]
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Historical Research & Development
"ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU.
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Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
See the AMM site for more supporters of this event.
<BR>Sorry to say but all that stuff is made for one reason and that is to get you to buy it. For when you start walking or doing any thing that causes your body to warm up you give of odor and they can smell ya. I have had my best luck with just rubbing elk urine on me when hunting but ya got to do it regularly or your stink will come through. It is hard to imagine that a persons smell is stronger then that stuff but it is. So your best bet is to watch the wind and move slow. I know it sounds a bit bad but after a while ya get use to the smell. Ya do get some odd looks form the folks in town when ya stop in a store to get something after a day of hunting. More so then I usually get in my buckskins it must be the Elk perfume.
<BR>See ya on the trail
<BR>Crazy Cyot</FONT></HTML>
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<BR>That be a fact Fox be about the worst, heck ya ain't even got to mess with the critter him self just go messin a round in front of one of their den's and your sure to find some fleas on ya, they be lousy with them. Was it you that was talking about water fieas on Beaver now that's a new one on me, never notice any thing like that before. Cores can't say as I've looked for parasites of beaver If they ain't jumpin on me who's lookin for them.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">see ya on the trap line
<BR> If you are going to be in Denver on Thursday and Torrington on Saturday you will go thru Fort Collins between the two maybe we could hook up and I could get a copy Mark #1849 "Roadkill" Loader
<BR>Phone 970 484 0047
<BR>or 1-800-434-1749</FONT></HTML>
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<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">They've jumped my old dog<BR>
once and twice followed behind us. Any suggestions other than a loud<BR>
whistle, a strong walking stick and my .38 filled with snakeshot?<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Air horns, like you get at sporting goods stores work great on everything from 'coons to bears. Had it recommended to me by a Ranger to use instead of bear (pepper) spray, and it works! And it's a heck of alot less irritating to the human senses! Barney </B></FONT></HTML>
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<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><< I'm not entirely sure about the "true" part Magpie, but it is a great <BR>
story. >><BR>
<BR>
Haaaaaaa....good point. But, Newman does goes on to name one of the men as <BR>
Edmund Charles Bovey...apparently a "more enlightened pillar of the Canadian <BR>
Establishment". If the story is true, I'd like to see the frying pan.....<BR>
I'd like to see the tree that grows from the bottom! Think about it! I'm sure most of us have a favorite tree limb in our favorite deer camp that we've used for the last 25 or so years. Has that limb gotten much higher in that time we've been using it? Possibly a few inches due to the larger diameter of that particular limb or maybe the soil has eroded a bit under the tree, and, granted, some of us have shrunk over the years, but that limb is basically the same height now as it was 25 years ago. Trees grow from the TOP, not the bottom, so how'd that skillet get that high in the tree. The tree didn't grow it up there. Maybe there was a hell of a snow storm & the skillet was hung at snow level?<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Michael, Patterns are available at places like <A HREF="http://www.jastown.com/">Jas. Townsend & Son</A></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">, <A HREF="http:/www.crazycrow.com">Crazy Crow Trading</A></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">, and <A HREF="http://www.catalogcity.com/ViewCover.cfm?VID=150674">Panther Primitives</A></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"> among others. If you decide to do braintan, which IS about the most comfortable stuff you'll ever wear, you might check <A HREF="http://www.braintan.com/toc.html">Braintan.com</A></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"> for hints and tips on working with the material.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, while I wear braintan on cooler evenings and during winter camp, I also wear quite a bit of cotton/linen clothing because I get WAY hot on 70+ days. I found <A HREF="http://www.whitefoxtrading.com/">White Fox Trading</A></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"> for some nice fabrics. Then you can make things like narrowfalls, southwestern, etc. to fit, and your lovely Senora will find something else to heckle you about.<BR>
<BR>
Glad to finally meet you, Barney</B></FONT></HTML>
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<BR>Glad ya liked the site, we have had a good time doing it, not so much the site as the getting out on the trail a learning and doing it, that's been the fun part for us. Always glad to share I sued a pattern from Eagle Feather Trading post out of Ogden Utah a lot of trades carry there patterns. I used two very large deer hides (I still wonder how I got them away from Jill as a rule she take all the big hides to make dresses out of) and one small hide for the waste band. Alan gave ya a good pointer on the waste band I sandwiched a peace of canvas in mine. Another pointer the pattern calls for a double layer on the flap of the bord falls but I only used a signal layer it laid better and took less leather. Next pointer I sewed the top all together down to mid thigh then pined the legs to get them to fit tight like I wanted them to fit. Like you see in the Miller pictures and how a lot of pontoons were made in the early 1800's. when I sewed them I left the bottom eight inches or so open and use two button to close the bottom of the pant leg. This make it easier to get them on and off with the tight fitting legs.
<BR>By all mean if you can use brain tan, hope this helps.
<BR>See ya down the trail
<BR>Crazy Cyot </FONT></HTML>
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In a message dated 7/31/2002 11:24:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
busterize@oldwest.net writes:
> I thank whomever suggested the airhorn
That would be me Geri, and the Forest Ranger recommended air horn trick
works! We used it on a Blackie that was meandering through our YMCA camp
daily a couple of weeks ago. He had been in/around camp every day until I
blasted him outside the dining hall early one morning; never to be seen
again, for the rest of our time up there, anyway!
Granted that while coyotes are a problem, as many have said, shooting them
just isn't an option in all circumstances.
Barney
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#000080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 7/31/2002 11:24:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, busterize@oldwest.net writes:<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000080" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
That would be me Geri, and the Forest Ranger recommended air horn trick works! We used it on a Blackie that was meandering through our YMCA camp daily a couple of weeks ago. He had been in/around camp every day until I blasted him outside the dining hall early one morning; never to be seen again, for the rest of our time up there, anyway!<BR>
<BR>
Granted that while coyotes are a problem, as many have said, shooting them just isn't an option in all circumstances.<BR>
<BR>
Barney</B></FONT></HTML>
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I wish you boy's would use a different Subject line that Killing coyotes one
is starting to make me nervous!
Let me know when it's safe for me to come out of my hole.
Crazy Cyot
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>I wish you boy's would use a different Subject line that Killing coyotes one is starting to make me nervous!
<BR>Let me know when it's safe for me to come out of my hole.
<BR>Crazy Cyot</FONT></HTML>
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