ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/hist_text.200202

Internet Message Format | 2002-02-28 | 2MB

From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: coyote film
Date: 01 Feb 2002 06:59:18 -0600

    A fellow Arkansasan shared this.

    <Coyote is the hero of many Native American Stories.

He is often a morality lesson waiting for the telling.

I met a filmmaker last October in Hot Springs who has
a documentary film out called "Killing Coyote" and it is
about to be aired on Montana Public TV, so if any of you
sons of the mountains happen to be in the vicinity of Missoula
in the near future, tune in.


By the way, if you get a chance to see another of their
films "The Naturalist"  please do, as it is about a fellow
named Kent Bonar who lives up in the Buffalo River Valley
and walks the walk of a mountain man--he even writes with
a turkey quill pen. >

Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders


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From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: knife
Date: 31 Jan 2002 19:47:44 -0700

thanks, finally got ahold of his wife, girlfriend, mistress, etc. of
course tom is at a show, but at least I left a message for him.
thanks for all your help.

another question, a friend of mine wants to get into the highlander
dress, he saids he wants high top moccasins to go with his kilt. I
showed him the highlander sketchbook and pointed out that I do not
believe high top,(tandy type) was worn by highlanders, but if there
were not wearing brogans or some other type of leather shoe, it was
eastern style moccasins with leggins or hose/socks. where can he find
more reference and supplies for highlander costume?

I am considering getting into the costume also, just love the idea of
hanging free under a skirt!
joe
--
Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!

----------------------
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From: Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: deer & elk hides
Date: 31 Jan 2002 20:00:14 -0700

I have several hair on deer and elk hides for sale, most have a hole
or two, (illegal to choke them and often times quite dangerous) We
have so many yet to tan yet and want to get rid of the ones that are
tanned. The deer will run $30 for the lower end and $45 for the upper
end. elk are $75 for the low end and $150 for the upper ones. these
are all good hides, but want to move them. All are prices less than
tanning costs. May  have some lower end buffalo robes too. I
guarantee them to be what you order.
thanks,

joe
--
Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!

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From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Membership Cards
Date: 01 Feb 2002 08:31:04 -0700

Gentelmen,
Anyone that has paid dues in the AMM for 2002 but has not received there
card please contact me at [e-mail]
Ole

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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 10:36:13 -0500

The "Tandy" style hightop mocs are NOT ever appropriate for Highland wear.
In the early 1700s, a fort was established by Highland Rangers in Darien,
GA. As their English style shoes wore out, they saw the smarts in adopting
the local footwear... mocs... BUT... these were low cut, eastern style mocs.
Also, they wore Ghillies, which were very similar to mocs, but not sewn, but
were tied together and laced up the legs.  They did wear "leggings" but
usually of wool, not the indian style leather, although some did, so this
would be appropriate, but NOT above the knees. This saved the wear and tear
on the stockings which were relatively expensive.  Many ceased wearing the
socks all together, and just wore short leggings to protect their legs.
There is a book out called the Highland Ranger... usually available at local
'Vous.

Trust me... NOTHING is as great (ok, well, almost as great) as wearing a
kilt and being "regimental" under it!!  A friend got me into one abot 10
years ago, and it is a WONDERFUL feeling <VBG>... I portray a HIghland
Ranger from Darien at reenactments at Ft. King George there.

Regards,

Ad Miller


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From: manbear <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 11:29:17 -0500

Ad,
AMEN tae that.
Manbear

Addison Miller wrote:
Trust me... NOTHING is as great (ok, well, almost as great) as wearing a
kilt and being "regimental" under it!! <VBG>.
Regards,
Ad Miller


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From: "John & Nancy McKee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: scottish footware
Date: 01 Feb 2002 12:54:19 -0600

Joe,
    Check with Smoke and Fire Co. 1 800 766-5334 They have quite a few
Scottish patterns. The gillie Brogues pattern is on page 15 of their
2001-2002 catalog. Lots of other interesting stuff in there too.
    Regimental and Proud of it, Plaid to the bone!  John


The Stitchin' Scotsman
100% Hand-sewn Leather Goods. Specializing in the American Fur Trade Era.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:47 PM


> thanks, finally got ahold of his wife, girlfriend, mistress, etc. of
> course tom is at a show, but at least I left a message for him.
> thanks for all your help.
>
> another question, a friend of mine wants to get into the highlander
> dress, he saids he wants high top moccasins to go with his kilt. I
> showed him the highlander sketchbook and pointed out that I do not
> believe high top,(tandy type) was worn by highlanders, but if there
> were not wearing brogans or some other type of leather shoe, it was
> eastern style moccasins with leggins or hose/socks. where can he find
> more reference and supplies for highlander costume?
>
> I am considering getting into the costume also, just love the idea of
> hanging free under a skirt!
> joe
> --
> Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
> Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture
307-455-2440
> New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 17:14:41 -0500

I love "regimentals", especially during the Caber toss.

Linda  HOlley

manbear wrote:

> Ad,
> AMEN tae that.
> Manbear
>
> Addison Miller wrote:
> Trust me... NOTHING is as great (ok, well, almost as great) as wearing a
> kilt and being "regimental" under it!! <VBG>.
> Regards,
> Ad Miller
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 18:31:12 -0700

Ain't nothing sexier than a man in a kilt!!!!  Real Men Wear Kilts!!!!

Colleen


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:24:37 -0500

LOL!!!  Linda, yer a dirty ol' Lass, ye are!!!  hehe... ain't it fun???  I
love wearing me kilt... ladies frequently come up to me when I wear it and
"grope" me to see it I am regimental... drives my wife nuts!!! LOL!! I kinda
like it... <grins>

Regards,

Ad

PS: Missed you at Alafia this year.... :((


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:27:31 -0500

Thank ye, Colleen, me Lass :))  Believe me, we men totally enjoy being
"checked" by the ladies...

Regards,

Ad


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From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:32:20 -0500

I guess you have tied on a "Blue Ribbon" or two?

Linda Holley...   Clan MacPherson

Addison Miller wrote:

> LOL!!!  Linda, yer a dirty ol' Lass, ye are!!!  hehe... ain't it fun???  I
> love wearing me kilt... ladies frequently come up to me when I wear it and
> "grope" me to see it I am regimental... drives my wife nuts!!! LOL!! I kinda
> like it... <grins>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ad
>
> PS: Missed you at Alafia this year.... :((
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:51:07 -0700

Oh....I love 'The Scotsman's Kilt' song!!!  Nothing like following a
regiment of kilts and watching that swaying!!!!!

Colleen
77th Montgomerie Highlanders


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:32 PM


> I guess you have tied on a "Blue Ribbon" or two?
>
> Linda Holley...   Clan MacPherson
>
> Addison Miller wrote:
>
> > LOL!!!  Linda, yer a dirty ol' Lass, ye are!!!  hehe... ain't it fun???
I
> > love wearing me kilt... ladies frequently come up to me when I wear it
and
> > "grope" me to see it I am regimental... drives my wife nuts!!! LOL!! I
kinda
> > like it... <grins>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ad
> >
> > PS: Missed you at Alafia this year.... :((
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:54:35 -0600

There are certain events that one should be careful of at the games.  One
year, at a local highland games, one of the laddies forgot to tie doon his
kilt before the long jump.    The results as he sailed through the air, wi'
his kilt ae aboot his ears was hilarious.   To make matters worse, he
landed poorly, and slid on his arse in the sand.    I took care to tie my
kilt doon afore running in the foot race.   Less likely to have it yanked
off, and provided a bit more  "ahem" support when I was running.

Todd,
Missouri Territory, or Spanish Illinois, depending on what year I think it is.


At 05:14 PM 2/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I love "regimentals", especially during the Caber toss.
>
>Linda  HOlley
>
>manbear wrote:
>
>> Ad,
>> AMEN tae that.
>> Manbear
>>
>> Addison Miller wrote:
>> Trust me... NOTHING is as great (ok, well, almost as great) as wearing a
>> kilt and being "regimental" under it!! <VBG>.
>> Regards,
>> Ad Miller
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: Todd Glover <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: deer & elk hides
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:24:54 -0700

Joe,

What are the robe prices?

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:00:14 -0700 Joe Brandl <[e-mail]>
writes:
> I have several hair on deer and elk hides for sale, most have a hole
>
> or two, (illegal to choke them and often times quite dangerous) We
> have so many yet to tan yet and want to get rid of the ones that are
>
> tanned. The deer will run $30 for the lower end and $45 for the
> upper
> end. elk are $75 for the low end and $150 for the upper ones. these
>
> are all good hides, but want to move them. All are prices less than
>
> tanning costs. May  have some lower end buffalo robes too. I
> guarantee them to be what you order.
> thanks,
>
> joe
> --
> Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
> Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture
> 307-455-2440
> New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784

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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:07:12 -0800

Aye, lassie, I dona know what it means but I'm glad I took first place!

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:32 PM


> I guess you have tied on a "Blue Ribbon" or two?
>
> Linda Holley...   Clan MacPherson
>
> Addison Miller wrote:
>
> > LOL!!!  Linda, yer a dirty ol' Lass, ye are!!!  hehe... ain't it fun???
I
> > love wearing me kilt... ladies frequently come up to me when I wear it
and
> > "grope" me to see it I am regimental... drives my wife nuts!!! LOL!! I
kinda
> > like it... <grins>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ad
> >
> > PS: Missed you at Alafia this year.... :((
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: "Michael Powell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Scottish Shoes
Date: 01 Feb 2002 20:29:13 -0700


------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1AB5F.1C8C8AE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Joe,
The actual appropriate foot covering would be a pair of Gillie Brogues if=
 your fried wants to go total Scottish.  Smoke and Fire Co.  P.O. Box 166=
  Grand Rapids, OH  43522  makes a pattern for such.  If not, then most S=
cotsmen would have, of course, adopted the  footwear here in the Americas=
 when they arrived.  I've made a few pair of Gillies and they are extreme=
ly simple to make and thick cowhide can be used because there is no seam.
YMHOS
Mike Powell  =20
 =20
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:47 AM
 =20
thanks, finally got ahold of his wife, girlfriend, mistress, etc. of
course tom is at a show, but at least I left a message for him.
thanks for all your help.

another question, a friend of mine wants to get into the highlander
dress, he saids he wants high top moccasins to go with his kilt. I
showed him the highlander sketchbook and pointed out that I do not
believe high top,(tandy type) was worn by highlanders, but if there
were not wearing brogans or some other type of leather shoe, it was
eastern style moccasins with leggins or hose/socks. where can he find
more reference and supplies for highlander costume?

I am considering getting into the costume also, just love the idea of
hanging free under a skirt!
joe
--
Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455=
-2440
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.htmlGe=
t more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.co=
m

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1AB5F.1C8C8AE0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Joe,</DIV> <DI=
V>The actual appropriate foot covering would be a pair of Gillie Brogues =
if your fried wants to go total Scottish.  Smoke and Fire Co.  =
P.O. Box 166  Grand Rapids, OH  43522  makes a patter=
n for such.  If not, then most Scotsmen would have, of course, adopt=
ed the  footwear here in the Americas when they arrived.&n=
bsp; I've made a few pair of Gillies and they are extremely simple t=
o make and thick cowhide can be used because there is no seam.</DIV> <DIV=
>YMHOS</DIV> <DIV>Mike Powell  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQ=
UOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BO=
RDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10p=
t Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4=
e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> Joe Brandl</DIV> <DIV =
style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 01, 2002 7:47 AM=
</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> [e-mail]=
n.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-Lis=
t: knife</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>thanks, finally got ahold of his wife, gi=
rlfriend, mistress, etc. of<BR>course tom is at a show, but at least I le=
ft a message for him.<BR>thanks for all your help.<BR><BR>another questio=
n, a friend of mine wants to get into the highlander<BR>dress, he saids h=
e wants high top moccasins to go with his kilt. I<BR>showed him the highl=
ander sketchbook and pointed out that I do not<BR>believe high top,(tandy=
 type) was worn by highlanders, but if there<BR>were not wearing brogans =
or some other type of leather shoe, it was<BR>eastern style moccasins wit=
h leggins or hose/socks. where can he find<BR>more reference and supplies=
 for highlander costume?<BR><BR>I am considering getting into the costume=
 also, just love the idea of<BR>hanging free under a skirt!<BR>joe<BR>--<=
BR>Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com<BR>Call us=
 about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-24=
40<BR>New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!<BR><B=
R>----------------------<BR>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/=
~drudy/mtman/maillist.html<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML><br clear=3Dall>=
<hr>Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href=3D'http:=
//explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C1AB5F.1C8C8AE0--

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From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Scottish Shoes
Date: 02 Feb 2002 08:22:16 -0700

> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3095482936_124388_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Mike,
Sorry about jumping in, try this web site they have it all.
www.houston-highlandwear.co.uk
Ole
----------


Joe,

The actual appropriate foot covering would be a pair of Gillie Brogues if
your fried wants to go total Scottish.  Smoke and Fire Co.  P.O. Box 166
Grand Rapids, OH  43522  makes a pattern for such.  If not, then most
Scotsmen would have, of course, adopted the  footwear here in the Americas
when they arrived.  I've made a few pair of Gillies and they are extremely
simple to make and thick cowhide can be used because there is no seam.

YMHOS

Mike Powell




----- Original Message -----


Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:47 AM




thanks, finally got ahold of his wife, girlfriend, mistress, etc. of
course tom is at a show, but at least I left a message for him.
thanks for all your help.

another question, a friend of mine wants to get into the highlander
dress, he saids he wants high top moccasins to go with his kilt. I
showed him the highlander sketchbook and pointed out that I do not
believe high top,(tandy type) was worn by highlanders, but if there
were not wearing brogans or some other type of leather shoe, it was
eastern style moccasins with leggins or hose/socks. where can he find
more reference and supplies for highlander costume?

I am considering getting into the costume also, just love the idea of
hanging free under a skirt!
joe
--
Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture
307-455-2440
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html




Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
<http://explorer.msn.com>


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Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Re: Scottish Shoes</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
Mike,<BR>
Sorry about jumping in, try this web site they have it all.<BR>
www.houston-highlandwear.co.uk<BR>
Ole<BR>
----------<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>Joe,<BR>
 <BR>
The actual appropriate foot covering would be a pair of Gillie Brogues if y=
our fried wants to go total Scottish.  Smoke and Fire Co.  P.O. Bo=
x 166  Grand Rapids, OH  43522  makes a pattern for such. &nb=
sp;If not, then most Scotsmen would have, of course, adopted the  footw=
ear here in the Americas when they arrived.  I've made a few pair of Gi=
llies and they are extremely simple to make and thick cowhide can be used be=
cause there is no seam.<BR>
 <BR>
YMHOS<BR>
 <BR>
Mike Powell  <BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>
----- Original Message -----<BR>
 <BR>
<B>From:</B> Joe Brandl<BR>
 <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 01, 2002 7:47 AM<BR>
 <BR>
<B>To:</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]<BR>
</U></FONT> <BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: knife<BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
thanks, finally got ahold of his wife, girlfriend, mistress, etc. of<BR>
course tom is at a show, but at least I left a message for him.<BR>
thanks for all your help.<BR>
<BR>
another question, a friend of mine wants to get into the highlander<BR>
dress, he saids he wants high top moccasins to go with his kilt. I<BR>
showed him the highlander sketchbook and pointed out that I do not<BR>
believe high top,(tandy type) was worn by highlanders, but if there<BR>
were not wearing brogans or some other type of leather shoe, it was<BR>
eastern style moccasins with leggins or hose/socks. where can he find<BR>
more reference and supplies for highlander costume?<BR>
<BR>
I am considering getting into the costume also, just love the idea of<BR>
hanging free under a skirt!<BR>
joe<BR>
--<BR>
Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com<BR>
Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-4=
55-2440<BR>
New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------<BR>
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y/mtman/maillist.html<BR>
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From: "p monty" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
Date: 02 Feb 2002 20:29:44 -0700

I'm curious about Colleen's 77th Mongomerie Highlanders.  Fill me in?
Thanks,
Paul Montgomery #1801


>From: <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
>Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:51:07 -0700
>
>Oh....I love 'The Scotsman's Kilt' song!!!  Nothing like following a
>regiment of kilts and watching that swaying!!!!!
>
>Colleen
>77th Montgomerie Highlanders
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:32 PM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Highland garb - was Knife
>
>
> > I guess you have tied on a "Blue Ribbon" or two?
> >
> > Linda Holley...   Clan MacPherson
> >
> > Addison Miller wrote:
> >
> > > LOL!!!  Linda, yer a dirty ol' Lass, ye are!!!  hehe... ain't it
>fun???
>I
> > > love wearing me kilt... ladies frequently come up to me when I wear it
>and
> > > "grope" me to see it I am regimental... drives my wife nuts!!! LOL!! I
>kinda
> > > like it... <grins>
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Ad
> > >
> > > PS: Missed you at Alafia this year.... :((
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > hist_text list info:
>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
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_________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lee Newbill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A Nice Website (bp guns)
Date: 03 Feb 2002 07:46:06 -0800

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Greetings

I'm passing on a website that showcases the guns & other works of T.A. =
Brown.  He's got some truly beautiful works of art gracing his website.

He's at www.CustomMuzzleloaderWorks.com

Regards from snowy Idaho

Lee Newbill


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greetings</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm passing on a website that showcases =
the guns=20
& other works of T.A. Brown.  He's got some truly beautiful =
works of=20
art gracing his website.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>He's at </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.CustomMuzzleloaderWorks.com">www.CustomMuzzleloaderWor=
ks.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards from snowy Idaho</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lee Newbill</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A Nice Website (bp guns)
Date: 03 Feb 2002 14:21:01 -0700

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    "THE GREAT AMERICAN BUFFALO RAFFLE" has moved to a new site at: =
http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html=20

    =20

Buck Conner
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson 1771"


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</SCRIPT>
    </CENTER><!-- End of Angelfire Ad Code Insertion --><!-- /\ end html =
 -->
    <P align=3Dcenter><B><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D5>"THE =
GREAT AMERICAN=20
    BUFFALO RAFFLE" has moved to a new site at:=20
    http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html</FONT></B><FONT size=3D3> =
</FONT>
    <P></P>
    <P></P></P></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></EM>Buck Conner<BR><FONT =
size=3D2>"Eternal=20
vigilance is the price of liberty"  Thomas Jefferson =
1771"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "BARRY CONNER" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: "AMM Buffalo Raffle" page has moved.
Date: 03 Feb 2002 14:26:20 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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"THE GREAT BUFFALO RAFFLE" HAS MOVED TO: =
http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html

Take care,
Buck Conner

Visit this site, find out about the [AMM]  (American Mountain Men's) =
"Great
Buffalo Raffle".
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ =
~ ~
~=20
~  AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html
~
~  see the AMM site for more supporters of this event.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ =
~ ~

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>
<DIV><STRONG>"THE GREAT BUFFALO RAFFLE" HAS MOVED TO: </STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html"><FONT=20
size=3D3>http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html</FONT></A><BR></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Take care,<BR>Buck Conner<BR></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM>Visit this site, find out about the [AMM]  (American =
Mountain=20
Men's) "Great<BR>Buffalo Raffle".<BR>~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ =
~ ~ ~ ~=20
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~<BR>~ <BR>~  AMM "The Great Buffalo =
Raffle":=20
</EM><A=20
href=3D"http://amm_raffle.tripod.com/amm.html"><EM>http://amm_raffle.trip=
od.com/amm.html</EM></A><BR><EM>~<BR>~ =20
see the AMM site for more supporters of this event.<BR>~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ =
~ ~ ~ ~=20
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~=20
~</EM></FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: David Usner <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
Date: 05 Feb 2002 21:58:43 -0500

I was wondering about some facts.

When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840.

How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?

How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of
beaver was falling off.


David


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From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
Date: 05 Feb 2002 22:27:24 -0500

David,

I'm no expert, but I would append your question by
asking when was the height of the beaver trade WHERE?
Logic being that the farther east and south, the
earlier the demise.  There's folks (not many) right now still
trapping beaver and getting paid (not much) but if I had to
pick a time for peak volume RMFT, I guess I would pick 1815-1825.
After that some areas were probably trapped out, expecially
considering that our modern concept of managing renewable resources
was likely foreign to those trappers.

Tom


David Usner wrote:
>
> I was wondering about some facts.
>
> When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840.
>
> How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?
>
> How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of
> beaver was falling off.
>
> David
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JW Stephens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
Date: 05 Feb 2002 20:21:55 -0800

The Snake River country was trapped out fairly early, as a matter of
policy. After the Convention of 1818, when Great Britain and the United
States agreed to jointly occupy Oregon, Alexander Ross as the point man
for the Hudson's Bay Company recognized the wave of the future when
Jedediah Smith's party of six trappers (who had taken some 900 plews on
the Green, Bear and Blackfoot rivers between the breakup of rendezvous
and "early autumn") showed up at his door. After showing Smith's party
courtesy for having escorted Pierre Tevanitagon and a small band of
Iroquois trappers who had been plundered by the Shoshones, back to
Flathead Post, Ross found out that Smith was not keen on leaving.  On
the fringes of Blackfoot country, at the onset of winter, Smith and his
party stayed with Ross' brigade. When Ross put his head together with
HBC Governor George Simpson and Chief Factor John McLoughlin, the plan
that was formed to blunt the intrusion of further Americans into this
rich HBC skin farm was to create a "beaver desert" south and east of the
Columbia River. This was started about November of '24 by replacing
Alexander Ross with Peter Skene Ogden. For the winter of '24-'25, Ogden
headed out to trap out the Snake River country with a party of about
sixty trappers, and Jed Smith et. al. in tow.

So you could say that the demise was started in the north and west.

B'st'rd

tom roberts wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I'm no expert, but I would append your question by
> asking when was the height of the beaver trade WHERE?
> Logic being that the farther east and south, the
> earlier the demise.  There's folks (not many) right now still
> trapping beaver and getting paid (not much) but if I had to
> pick a time for peak volume RMFT, I guess I would pick 1815-1825.
> After that some areas were probably trapped out, expecially
> considering that our modern concept of managing renewable resources
> was likely foreign to those trappers.
>
> Tom
>
> David Usner wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering about some facts.
> >
> > When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840.
> >
> > How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?
> >
> > How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of
> > beaver was falling off.
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
Date: 05 Feb 2002 23:27:32 EST


In a message dated 2/5/02 8:16:00 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about 1830-1840.


How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?


How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of

beaver was falling off.>>

The supply was petering out by the mid 1830s.  Osborn Russell in his journal
writes from a spot north of Great Salt Lake in the late 1830s that the
buffalo are gone (from there) and the beaver are all gone.  It is time for
the white man to get out of this country.

A trapper might carry 5-6 - sometimes 8 traps.  He had to not only set and
recover them but also skin and tend them.  Beaver do NOT skin as easily as a
bunny.  Limited to the number of traps and the fact he did not always fill
out and some days got zero - you can do your own cost accounting.
Remembering that beaver trapping was done in the fall and spring only -
trappers roamed the summer to and from rendezvous, and they holed up in w
inter, seeking out a spot with game, shelter (some constructed cabins and
such), wood and - VERY important - feed for their animals.  Often they
bunched up with other trappers at this time - frequently friendly Indians
were part of the camp.

American Fur kept harvesting  past 1850 as did Hudson's Bay.  They did a lot
of business trading with the Indians (as they did from the beginning) rather
than the trapper system of a couple of decades earlier.  The bottom had
fallen out of the beaver market by 1840, any way because of the new fashion
of silk hats.  Much of the fur gathered by (Astor's) American Fur company
were hides of a dozen varieties other than beaver - same with HBCo..

1860s - enterprising young men were going after buffalo hides.  This lasted
for nearly a quarter of a century.  The harvest went mostly for lap robes to
begin, but ironically many of the bufalo hides were tanned into leather that
was then made into belts that transfered water power to the overhead shafts
and then to the machines in the early part of the age of the industrial
revolution.  An example would be Russell's knife factory on the Green River
of Mass..

Hope this helps

Sincerly
Richard James

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Usner <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
Date: 06 Feb 2002 09:04:07 -0500

I'm most interested in trapping in Colorado and surrounding area. Is it
possible to calculate the approx catch per week or month during 1924-1940.
Would it be safe to say that a single trapper could trap 20 beaver a month?
40 beaver a month? Could two or three trappers catch 100 beaver a month?

Was the demise a result of premeditated calculation on the part of HBC or
was it a result of the rise in demand and the rise in the number of men
willing and able to venture into the territory.

I know that Kit Carson would leave his home in Taos and trap up north and
west of there. I think he trapped the Snake River as well. He must have
gotten into the trade just at the beginning of the end. Things seemed to be
changing quickly in the part of the country.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of JW Stephens
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:22 PM


The Snake River country was trapped out fairly early, as a matter of
policy. After the Convention of 1818, when Great Britain and the United
States agreed to jointly occupy Oregon, Alexander Ross as the point man
for the Hudson's Bay Company recognized the wave of the future when
Jedediah Smith's party of six trappers (who had taken some 900 plews on
the Green, Bear and Blackfoot rivers between the breakup of rendezvous
and "early autumn") showed up at his door. After showing Smith's party
courtesy for having escorted Pierre Tevanitagon and a small band of
Iroquois trappers who had been plundered by the Shoshones, back to
Flathead Post, Ross found out that Smith was not keen on leaving.  On
the fringes of Blackfoot country, at the onset of winter, Smith and his
party stayed with Ross' brigade. When Ross put his head together with
HBC Governor George Simpson and Chief Factor John McLoughlin, the plan
that was formed to blunt the intrusion of further Americans into this
rich HBC skin farm was to create a "beaver desert" south and east of the
Columbia River. This was started about November of '24 by replacing
Alexander Ross with Peter Skene Ogden. For the winter of '24-'25, Ogden
headed out to trap out the Snake River country with a party of about
sixty trappers, and Jed Smith et. al. in tow.

So you could say that the demise was started in the north and west.

B'st'rd

tom roberts wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I'm no expert, but I would append your question by
> asking when was the height of the beaver trade WHERE?
> Logic being that the farther east and south, the
> earlier the demise.  There's folks (not many) right now still
> trapping beaver and getting paid (not much) but if I had to
> pick a time for peak volume RMFT, I guess I would pick 1815-1825.
> After that some areas were probably trapped out, expecially
> considering that our modern concept of managing renewable resources
> was likely foreign to those trappers.
>
> Tom
>
> David Usner wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering about some facts.
> >
> > When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about
1830-1840.
> >
> > How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?
> >
> > How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply
of
> > beaver was falling off.
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Usner <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
Date: 06 Feb 2002 09:14:20 -0500

Richard,

That's great information. Thanks. You guys are painting an interesting
picture. I would thinking that a single trapper could set 6 traps a day and
maybe come up with an average of 3 beaver a day. That would mean the yield
during the spring and fall could be as much as 90 pelts a month from a
single trapper. Does that sound possible?

Dave


-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:28 PM



In a message dated 2/5/02 8:16:00 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<When was the height of the beaver trade? My guess is it was about
1830-1840.


How many beaver could a trapper get in an average day or week?


How many could they a trapper get by the 1860s? I know that the supply of

beaver was falling off.>>

The supply was petering out by the mid 1830s.  Osborn Russell in his journal
writes from a spot north of Great Salt Lake in the late 1830s that the
buffalo are gone (from there) and the beaver are all gone.  It is time for
the white man to get out of this country.

A trapper might carry 5-6 - sometimes 8 traps.  He had to not only set and
recover them but also skin and tend them.  Beaver do NOT skin as easily as a
bunny.  Limited to the number of traps and the fact he did not always fill
out and some days got zero - you can do your own cost accounting.
Remembering that beaver trapping was done in the fall and spring only -
trappers roamed the summer to and from rendezvous, and they holed up in w
inter, seeking out a spot with game, shelter (some constructed cabins and
such), wood and - VERY important - feed for their animals.  Often they
bunched up with other trappers at this time - frequently friendly Indians
were part of the camp.

American Fur kept harvesting  past 1850 as did Hudson's Bay.  They did a lot
of business trading with the Indians (as they did from the beginning) rather
than the trapper system of a couple of decades earlier.  The bottom had
fallen out of the beaver market by 1840, any way because of the new fashion
of silk hats.  Much of the fur gathered by (Astor's) American Fur company
were hides of a dozen varieties other than beaver - same with HBCo..

1860s - enterprising young men were going after buffalo hides.  This lasted
for nearly a quarter of a century.  The harvest went mostly for lap robes to
begin, but ironically many of the bufalo hides were tanned into leather that
was then made into belts that transfered water power to the overhead shafts
and then to the machines in the early part of the age of the industrial
revolution.  An example would be Russell's knife factory on the Green River
of Mass..

Hope this helps

Sincerly
Richard James

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From: "Angela Gottfred" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Northwest Journal--new & improved!
Date: 06 Feb 2002 09:25:16 -0700

We've just concluded extensive renovations to the Northwest Journal
website www.northwestjournal.ca, adding 42 (yes, forty-two) articles
about the Canadian fur trade, 1774-1821. Most of these articles were
originally published in the paper version of Northwest Journal between
1992 and 1998, however new articles are being added.

We are also launching a new mailing list, h-voyageur, focusing on the
fur trade of the voyageur era (c. 1770-1830). To subscribe to the new
list, go to www.groups.yahoo.com/group/h-voyageur/join and follow the
instructions. Or you can join by sending a blank e-mail to
[e-mail]. (We're just beginning a
chapter-by-chapter discussion of the history behind the novel Broken
Blade, by William Durbin.)

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred
Editor, Northwest Journal (online edition)




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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
Date: 06 Feb 2002 12:26:14 -0500

any of you guys know haw many beaver pelts will go into a bundle of
pelts---that was the way the beaver skins  was transported and packed
out---put in a press and bundeled---in a lot of references there say that
a average season would give you from 10 to 20 bundels---dont know if that
is each man or for the party but if you estimate how many pelts are in a
bundel you will get an idea of how many they cought---6 traps if you ran
them twice a day will get you a lot more beaver than you realize---in a
30 plus day period---a single dam or colony can easily have 50 plus
beavers in it and the beaver have 3 to 5 kits a year so it gets
overstocked quite easily in a few years look at the numbers---might be
suprizeing kina like a penny a day and double it ever day for 30 days---

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
Date: 06 Feb 2002 12:15:27 -0500

dick---
I beaver and muskrat trapping back in the mid  50's and i trapped using
about 50 plus traps only made 5 or 10 beaver sets around 4 fairly large
lakes and the streams that fed them---I ran my traps in the morning and
the afternoon and a good productive set usually had something in it in
the morning and the afternoon---I used drownding sets in a lot of cases
and in one big beaver colony/lake  I only had 5 traps set and in the 30
days of trapping season I got over 60 beaver out of that one area dont
believe i put a dint in the beavers there---in about the 70's they the
state trapper tried poison and that killed most of them off---as long as
the sets had castorium or bait on them i seldom did not have a beaver or
a muskrat in them---and there was only 5 sets on that area---I ran a lot
of mink traps and fox traps also those were not as productive as the
water sets in the area i lived---I have pictures of my catch that year
and it wasnt too bad---got over 100 mink---60 plus foxes plus the beaver
and the muskrat---had over 350 muskrat---i spent a lot of time skinning
and streaching---had a friend with a hog farm nearby and he took all the
carcuses for the hogs that relly helped---that one year was probably my
most productive year---but i made more money trapping preditors the next
few years but had to buy different and bigger trapps for that---the
beaver traps worked well on bobcat and ky-dogs---which are crosses---
there was a $25 bounty on dogs and bobcat at that time paid by the
state--only ran the preditor traps once a day and it was a hell of a lot
of walking and travel involved---they still tell stories of me having 15
to 20 preditors hanging on the fence waiting for the state rep to mark
and pay the bounty he came to the house about once a week--- the carcus
had to be whole to collect and not skinned---I skinned them after i
collected from him

YMHOS

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch
Date: 06 Feb 2002 19:45:02 EST

Great story Hawk,loved reading it I almost fell out my chair laughing so hard
then you talked about the fance.

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
[e-mail]

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 06 Feb 2002 18:14:27 -0800

Gentleman(and those with beaver fever,

    Called my brother Eric last night to clue me in on beaver trapping.
Wel, I herd him say tha breedin seesun iz near, and dose castor critters
wood be peeping thar head bove tha ice soon, Ha, Ha! I mean I knew mountain
men had their mind on beaver most of the time. So here goes Eric's questions
and comments.

    First, he said one year he caught 17 beaver and 2 non-target
animals(racoons) in 3 days.  He even pointed out to me he used a set that an
Indian trapper had taught him; that he beleives goes back to the French .
The Indian having the lineage of the French, he figured it was an old
trapping technique.

    Anyway, Eric went on about this website that some 'rendezvouer'
evidently put into being.  The document pointed out the weight of the trap
drowned the beaver, he,he,he, ha, ha.  Now, Eric says that somebody really
pulled a fast one on that novice/tenderfoot.  He said when he was learning,
he had an old castor drag concrete blocks and tractor parts back to the bank
and wring out/pull out of the jaws.  Eric said these weights on his drown
wire were 25-30 lbs in his infancy trapping days. Of course, Eric learned to
use the heaviest masonry blocks or sandbags full of dirt, rocks, and sand;
when using the drown wire.  He caught a 83 pounder one year; and claims
there are 100 lb. chiseltooths out there in colonies beyond the roads. Eric
said if the weight of the trap drowned an adult(momma or dad), it had to be
at least 45 lbs. Imagine one mule weighted down by only 3-4 heavy traps!
    He went on to say spring trapping was the easiest, as if they are not
trapwise he could sometimes trap the entire colony out in 2-3 days.  After 3
days, he said if you caught any, you seldom caught another unless in the
blind, in their runs.

    Now, Eric would like to know how many of you have honestly caught beaver
using TANGLESTAKES or a DROWNING(?not sure if I understand this
correctly???)POLE?

   He also asked how trappers of yesterday caught beaver in silt/soft mud by
using a pole?  The type found in marsh beaver ponds that pull one's waders
off like quck-mud.

   And what did they do on bedrock bottom streams and gravel bed streams to
anchor their trap?  Drive a stake???

See, some women take good notes,

Sue Raven

P.S. I think I smell a trap being set for me, he,he,he,he,. . . he.



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


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From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Trade Gun for Sale
Date: 06 Feb 2002 21:36:55 -0700

Hello the Camp,

Shawn Webster sent me the message below.  He's got a trade gun for sale, it
sounds like a dandy.  If he gunsmiths like he quills, it will be some!  Give
him a hollar.

Allen

X-From_: [e-mail]  Tue Feb  5 13:05:09 2002
Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
X-postini-filters:     (S:0.0241515 )



Do you know of anyone that is looking for a nice Indian trade
rifle? I just finished one for myself and I really
need to sell it. It's a rifled 62 caliber, 35"barreled
flintlock with premium curly maple stock.  I hand
forged all of the parts myself including a nice iron
patch box.  I'm only asking $900 for it.  If you could
spread the word I would be greatful.  Thanks!

Shawn


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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Jean
Date: 06 Feb 2002 22:39:07 -0600

I talked to Laura Jean for a few moments tonight and to her husband for a
while longer.  Laura is having a tough time right now even though her latest
MRI shows the tumor to be smaller than before.  Laura and her family need
your prayers. She really enjoys getting notes, etc from her "mountain
friends" so if you wish to send something you can use this address:
Laura Rugel Glise
3841 Prestwick Lane SE
Olympia, WA  98501
Once again please don't call.
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]


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From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 06 Feb 2002 21:52:58 -0700

Hello Sue and others interested in trapping,

Not sure where your brother is catching beaver, but out here in the Rocky
Mountains, the bottoms generally aren't that gooey and will hold a stake.
I've been trapping and catching beaver for several years, and have only used
the trap to drown them, primitive style.

Trick is to set the stake so the beaver can't get back to the bank.  Works
good, and is fairly well described by a number of the period writers.

Allen


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 07:38:57 EST

I hate to disagree, but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its
weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot
of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth.

                                                             TrapRJoe

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Message Board
Date: 07 Feb 2002 10:34:39 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1AFC3.0BC49280
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I set up a message board for anyones use.. If you are interested.

http://pub59.ezboard.com/bwoodsrunnersandfreinds

D


Visit one or all these sites, find out about the [AMM]  (American =
Mountain Men's) "Great Buffalo Raffle".
=20

AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": =
http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html
Double Edge forge  http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
Historical Research: http://conner110.tripod.com/
Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
=20
see the AMM site for more supporters of this event.


------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1AFC3.0BC49280
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I set up a message board for anyones =
use.. If you=20
are interested.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><A=20
href=3D"http://pub59.ezboard.com/bwoodsrunnersandfreinds">http://pub59.ez=
board.com/bwoodsrunnersandfreinds</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Visit one or all these sites, find out =
about the=20
[AMM]  (American Mountain Men's) "Great Buffalo=20
Raffle".<BR> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": <A=20
href=3D"http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html">http://conner110.tripo=
d.com/AMM-hunt.html</A><BR>Double=20
Edge forge  <A=20
href=3D"http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<=
/A><BR>Buck's=20
Base Camp: <A=20
href=3D"http://buckconner.tripod.com/">http://buckconner.tripod.com/</A><=
BR>Historical=20
Research: <A=20
href=3D"http://conner110.tripod.com/">http://conner110.tripod.com/</A><BR=
>Historical=20
Research & Development: <A=20
href=3D"http://hrd7.tripod.com/">http://hrd7.tripod.com/</A><BR> <BR=
>see the=20
AMM site for more supporters of this =
event.<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C1AFC3.0BC49280--


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From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 09:52:25 -0700

TrapRJoe,

Heck, it's ok to disagree.  I'm sure the 65 pound beaver that drowned on the
Bridger #5 disagreed as well.  And lots of his 45-50 brothers and sisters.

It worked in the old days, it works now.

Allen

At 07:38 AM 2/7/2002 EST, you wrote:
>I hate to disagree, but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its
>weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot
>of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth.
>
>                                                             TrapRJoe
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: WAS Beaver catch
Date: 07 Feb 2002 15:08:24 EST

In a message dated 2/6/02 1:01:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I got over 60 beaver out of that one area dont
 believe i put a dint in the beavers there-- >>
If you are good, when you die you go to beaver streams and ponds like that!
<VBG>
And the beaver skin easy as rabbits with no fleshing required.

I am curious about your method of fleshing.  What was it, if I may ask?
Fleshing beaver is about as much fun as hitting your toe with a hammer...but
a neccessary task.

-C.Kent

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 15:14:49 EST

In a message dated 2/7/02 7:39:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its
 weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a lot
 of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth. >>
I would have to disagree with this.  Only way a trap will drown a beaver is
if it on a sliding drowning lock of some type that prevents the beaver from
surfacing after it s initial reflexive dive.  Beaver are pretty danged
buoyant.  a trap is nothing for them to haul around.  TraprJon, if you are
out there what are your thoughts on the issue?

-C.Kent

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 15:17:17 EST

In a message dated 2/7/02 11:49:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I'm sure the 65 pound beaver that drowned on the
 Bridger #5 disagreed as well.  >>
As someone who is impartial and does not mind arbitrating I have a grand
solution.

All of you who claim to have used a trap to drown a beaver with its own
weight should post me those traps post haste (season is nearly nigh!!) so
that I can conduct an objective and impartial study of your techniques on the
streams around here!!!  Three traps from each trapper should do fine
(Bridger, BMI and even DUKE should do fine) <VBG>

-C.Kent

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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 16:19:36 -0500

Ho the List,
    As a veteran trapper, State Certified Trapper Education Instructor, and
professional nuisance trapper, I fully agree with C. Kent, a trap alone does
not drown a beaver.  I have witnessed a 55# beaver swim for a time with
40#'s of weight attached to a #5 Bridger double long spring trap!!!  The
best way to drown a beaver with a foot hold trap is to use a slide wire
(preferably staked down solid) and drowning lock.  The next best method is
to use a properly placed tangle stick so the beaver swims around it and the
trap steak and can't get back to land, tires and drowns.
    If we want to be technical, beavers don't drown.  They form a mucus plug
in their throats so water can't pass through and they asphyxiate.  As the
need to get air gets critical, the beaver experiences a moment of frantic
increased activity in trying to reach the surface to breath (with a human
this would be panic), then calms down reducing activity to a minimum before
asphyxiation (with a human this is a state of euphoria caused by chemicals
in the brain being released due to lack of oxygen), then death.  This fact
is not just my opinion, but the result of scientific studies done on
specific animals including beaver for the purpose of determining the amount
of time it takes a given critter to die in a drowning set and to document
that the method is humane.  That's how my stick floats.
Sincerely,
John Enos
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]
"It's God's Responsibility to Forgive Bin Laden,
It's Our Responsibility To Arrange The Meeting!!!"

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 3:14 PM


> In a message dated 2/7/02 7:39:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail]
> writes:
>
> << but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its
>  weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a
lot
>  of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth. >>
> I would have to disagree with this.  Only way a trap will drown a beaver
is
> if it on a sliding drowning lock of some type that prevents the beaver
from
> surfacing after it s initial reflexive dive.  Beaver are pretty danged
> buoyant.  a trap is nothing for them to haul around.  TraprJon, if you are
> out there what are your thoughts on the issue?
>
> -C.Kent
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 15:54:49 -0700

    We always used conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and
they sink like a rock. They work best on slide sets and if water is low,
opennings to the den. We have caught beaver on leg hold traps, but always
tag teamed them (used two at one set). Since the line was run in the morning,
you never know how much struggle they put up before going under. My dad
always said the natural instincts of a beaver when in trouble was to go deep.
If so, that helps when you are trying to drown them. Some animals will chew
off their legs to get out of the trap, but hadn't seen a beaver do it.
                                    mike.

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 2/7/02 11:49:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I'm sure the 65 pound beaver that drowned on the
>  Bridger #5 disagreed as well.  >>
> As someone who is impartial and does not mind arbitrating I have a grand
> solution.
>
> All of you who claim to have used a trap to drown a beaver with its own
> weight should post me those traps post haste (season is nearly nigh!!) so
> that I can conduct an objective and impartial study of your techniques on the
> streams around here!!!  Three traps from each trapper should do fine
> (Bridger, BMI and even DUKE should do fine) <VBG>
>
> -C.Kent
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:18:52 EST


In a message dated 2/7/02 2:57:22 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< We always used conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and
they sink like a rock >>

I've done my best catching beavers wid snares....  We'd chop a hole through
the ice kinda close to the lodge, and put down a stick of willow or birch,
then put in 4 snares right at the bottom edge of the ice. As the beaver would
swim around gnawing at the fresh stick, they'd git caught and drown. Could
trap all winter if you kept the hole covered with pine boughs and snow...

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:40:05 EST

Here it my two cents on trapping beaver .I use #4 victor long spring with
about a eight foot chain. I will place the trap near shore then  I will run
the chain out into the water about five are six feet away from the trap. take
the o ring run pole through it and drive it into the stream bottom. Next ran
three are four stakes around the pole .As the beaver is caught he swims for
deeper water and ends up going arond the stakes with the chain the chain gets
wrapped around the stakes. and drowns.

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
[e-mail]

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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 19:43:39 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Mike,
    First, I don't know who told you that some animals chew their legs =
off to get out of traps, but it is about time for that rumor to die, =
because it is a fabrication of the animal rights extremist Waco's who =
would also have you believe that a breakfast of bacon, eggs and milk is =
"the breakfast of cruelty"!!!  (Quote from The Humane Society of The =
United States)  Or that it is ok to blow up a research facility that =
does testing on animals (PETA), or that the pictures they show such as =
the fawn (still with spots) and a #4 double longspring on it's leg, was =
killed by the trap!!!  The truth behind the myth is that animals caught =
in a trap fight the trap in different ways.  3 animals are chewers, =
skunk porcupines and raccoons.  They do NOT (cannot) reason that by =
chewing their leg off they can go free!!!  While K-9's tug and pull at =
the trap, and otters bite everything in it's path (trees bushes, sticks, =
etc) the 3 chewers fight the trap by biting the trap and trying to chew =
the trap off of them.  In the process their caught foot goes numb and =
they can no longer feel it.  While chewing at the trap they will bite =
and chew the numb part of the foot that is under the trap jaws because =
they can't feel it!!!  If there isn't much foot under the jaws, the =
critter can pull out of the trap.  They do NOT chew their foot anywhere =
above the trap jaws where they still have blood circulation and feeling. =
 The fix for catching these chewers is to use a smaller trap that isn't =
big enough for them to get their snout under the jaw to chew in the =
first place (size 1.5 or smaller trap - #1 is better), check sets early =
in the morning to remove critters before they have a chance to do much =
damage, or make a drowning set so they die instead of fight the trap.  =
The longer any live critter is in a trap, the more damage they will do =
to themselves in their normal attempts to get away from the thing that =
bit their foot!!!  Passing on these false rumors causes the general =
public to be disgusted at stories like this and to join the move to =
outlaw trapping. =20
    Second, conibears are the best beaver trap today.  I did not address =
the conibear trap in my earlier post because, this being a history list, =
the conibear trap didn't exist in the rocky mountains in the early and =
mid 1800's.  I caught a 42# beaver this past fall that had gotten out of =
the water somewhere away from my set, then entered the water (and my =
conibear) from the land side of the trap, then twisted itself up in 10 =
feet of wire.  I found the beaver floating in the water the next =
morning.  Conibears, as good as they are, do not always kill =
immediately, nor do caught beavers always sink (usually though). =20
Respectfully,
John Enos
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]=20
"It's God's Responsibility to Forgive Bin Laden,=20
It's Our Responsibility To Arrange The Meeting!!!"

----- Original Message -----=20
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:54 PM


>     We always used conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and
> they sink like a rock. They work best on slide sets and if water is =
low,
> opennings to the den. We have caught beaver on leg hold traps, but =
always
> tag teamed them (used two at one set). Since the line was run in the =
morning,
> you never know how much struggle they put up before going under. My =
dad
> always said the natural instincts of a beaver when in trouble was to =
go deep.
> If so, that helps when you are trying to drown them. Some animals will =
chew
> off their legs to get out of the trap, but hadn't seen a beaver do it.
>                                     mike.


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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Mike,<BR>    First, I don't know who =
told you=20
that some animals chew their legs off to get out of traps, but it is =
about time=20
for that rumor to die, because it is a fabrication of the animal rights=20
extremist Waco's who would also have you believe that a breakfast of =
bacon, eggs=20
and milk is "the breakfast of cruelty"!!!  (Quote from The Humane =
Society=20
of The United States)  Or that it is ok to blow up a research =
facility that=20
does testing on animals (PETA), or that the pictures they show such as =
the fawn=20
(still with spots) and a #4 double longspring on it's leg, was killed by =
the=20
trap!!!  The truth behind the myth is that animals caught in a trap =
fight=20
the trap in different ways.  3 animals are chewers, skunk =
porcupines and=20
raccoons.  They do NOT (cannot) reason that by chewing their leg =
off they=20
can go free!!!  While K-9's tug and pull at the trap, and otters =
bite=20
everything in it's path (trees bushes, sticks, etc) the 3 chewers fight =
the trap=20
by biting the trap and trying to chew the trap off of them.  In the =
process=20
their caught foot goes numb and they can no longer feel it.  While =
chewing=20
at the trap they will bite and chew the numb part of the foot that is =
under the=20
trap jaws because they can't feel it!!!  If there isn't much foot =
under the=20
jaws, the critter can pull out of the trap.  They do NOT chew their =
foot=20
anywhere above the trap jaws where they still have blood circulation and =

feeling.  The fix for catching these chewers is to use a smaller =
trap that=20
isn't big enough for them to get their snout under the jaw to chew in =
the first=20
place (size 1.5 or smaller trap - #1 is better), check sets early in the =
morning=20
to remove critters before they have a chance to do much damage, or make =
a=20
drowning set so they die instead of fight the trap.  The longer any =
live=20
critter is in a trap, the more damage they will do to themselves in =
their normal=20
attempts to get away from the thing that bit their foot!!!  Passing =
on=20
these false rumors causes the general public to be disgusted at stories =
like=20
this and to join the move to outlaw trapping.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>    Second, conibears are the best =
beaver trap=20
today.  I did not address the conibear trap in my earlier post =
because,=20
this being a history list, the conibear trap didn't exist in the rocky =
mountains=20
in the early and mid 1800's.  I caught a 42# beaver this past fall =
that had=20
gotten out of the water somewhere away from my set, then entered the =
water (and=20
my conibear) from the land side of the trap, then twisted itself up in =
10 feet=20
of wire.  I found the beaver floating in the water the next =
morning. =20
Conibears, as good as they are, do not always kill immediately, nor do =
caught=20
beavers always sink (usually though).  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Respectfully,<BR>John Enos</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>TrapRJohn<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> =
<BR>"It's God's=20
Responsibility to Forgive Bin Laden, <BR>It's Our Responsibility To =
Arrange The=20
Meeting!!!"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>From: "Mike Moore" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"><FONT=20
size=3D4>[e-mail]</FONT></A><FONT =
size=3D4>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>To: <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"><FONT=20
size=3D4>[e-mail]</FONT></A><FONT =
size=3D4>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:54 =
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the=20
Brain!</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT size=3D4>> =
    We=20
always used conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and<BR>> =
they=20
sink like a rock. They work best on slide sets and if water is =
low,<BR>>=20
opennings to the den. We have caught beaver on leg hold traps, but=20
always<BR>> tag teamed them (used two at one set). Since the line was =
run in=20
the morning,<BR>> you never know how much struggle they put up before =
going=20
under. My dad<BR>> always said the natural instincts of a beaver when =
in=20
trouble was to go deep.<BR>> If so, that helps when you are trying to =
drown=20
them. <STRONG><EM>Some animals will chew<BR>> off their legs to get =
out of=20
the trap, but hadn't seen a beaver do it.<BR></EM></STRONG>>=20
            &=
nbsp;           &n=
bsp;          =20
mike.<BR></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:07:50 -0700

At 06:40 PM 2/7/2002 EST, you wrote:
>Here it my two cents on trapping beaver .I use #4 victor long spring with
>about a eight foot chain. I will place the trap near shore then  I will run
>the chain out into the water about five are six feet away from the trap. take
>the o ring run pole through it and drive it into the stream bottom. Next ran
>three are four stakes around the pole .As the beaver is caught he swims for
>deeper water and ends up going arond the stakes with the chain the chain gets
>wrapped around the stakes. and drowns.
>
>Traphand
>Rick Petzoldt
>[e-mail]
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country


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From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:09:41 -0700

At 06:40 PM 2/7/2002 EST, you wrote:
>Here it my two cents on trapping beaver .I use #4 victor long spring with
>about a eight foot chain. I will place the trap near shore then  I will run
>the chain out into the water about five are six feet away from the trap. take
>the o ring run pole through it and drive it into the stream bottom. Next ran
>three are four stakes around the pole .As the beaver is caught he swims for
>deeper water and ends up going arond the stakes with the chain the chain gets
>wrapped around the stakes. and drowns.
>
>Traphand
>Rick Petzoldt
>[e-mail]

We've used this method as well, Rick, and it works good.  I like the
Brigders a little better because their a bit heavier and the jaw spread is
greater.  I use a little shorter chain, usually 5 to 6 feet.

Take care and good trappin!

Allen

Allen


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From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 07 Feb 2002 20:23:10 -0700


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John,
    Having caught (and there for seen) muskrats and mink with
only three legs I would have to disagree. The numbs of the legs
were bare down to the bone. My thoughts on it was that they did
wiggle, turn, fight and wear down the caught leg till it was able
separate itself from the trap.
    So maybe I shouldn't of used the term "chewed", but I also have
seen raccoon try to do the same thing. Weather you reason that the
animal
cannot know how to escape by doing this or not is semantics. Many a time

I have caught small animals with their legs broken from trying to escape

(the only thing holding them was the muscle and some time skin). Why
does
the trapping community like to blast any negative information? Trapping
has its
place in society. Some people (especially groups like you mentioned)
would love
to see it stopped. But no matter how much pressure is put on states and
communities
to stop it, trapping will continue. I was raised in a  trapping family.
My kids
know the difference between recreational trapping and when it is needed
for control.
Blasphene? In some circles. I know that here in Colorado it is nice to
go to the mountains
and see beavers replenished in the natural surroundings. Making the
ponds and streams
lie it was during and before the fur trade. Just one man's opinion.


[e-mail] wrote:

> Mike,
>     First, I don't know who told you that some animals chew their legs
> off to get out of traps, but it is about time for that rumor to die,
> because it is a fabrication of the animal rights extremist Waco's who
> would also have you believe that a breakfast of bacon, eggs and milk
> is "the breakfast of cruelty"!!!  (Quote from The Humane Society of
> The United States)  Or that it is ok to blow up a research facility
> that does testing on animals (PETA), or that the pictures they show
> such as the fawn (still with spots) and a #4 double longspring on it's
> leg, was killed by the trap!!!  The truth behind the myth is that
> animals caught in a trap fight the trap in different ways.  3 animals
> are chewers, skunk porcupines and raccoons.  They do NOT (cannot)
> reason that by chewing their leg off they can go free!!!  While K-9's
> tug and pull at the trap, and otters bite everything in it's path
> (trees bushes, sticks, etc) the 3 chewers fight the trap by biting the
> trap and trying to chew the trap off of them.  In the process their
> caught foot goes numb and they can no longer feel it.  While chewing
> at the trap they will bite and chew the numb part of the foot that is
> under the trap jaws because they can't feel it!!!  If there isn't much
> foot under the jaws, the critter can pull out of the trap.  They do
> NOT chew their foot anywhere above the trap jaws where they still have
> blood circulation and feeling.  The fix for catching these chewers is
> to use a smaller trap that isn't big enough for them to get their
> snout under the jaw to chew in the first place (size 1.5 or smaller
> trap - #1 is better), check sets early in the morning to remove
> critters before they have a chance to do much damage, or make a
> drowning set so they die instead of fight the trap.  The longer any
> live critter is in a trap, the more damage they will do to themselves
> in their normal attempts to get away from the thing that bit their
> foot!!!  Passing on these false rumors causes the general public to be
> disgusted at stories like this and to join the move to outlaw
> trapping.    Second, conibears are the best beaver trap today.  I did
> not address the conibear trap in my earlier post because, this being a
> history list, the conibear trap didn't exist in the rocky mountains in
> the early and mid 1800's.  I caught a 42# beaver this past fall that
> had gotten out of the water somewhere away from my set, then entered
> the water (and my conibear) from the land side of the trap, then
> twisted itself up in 10 feet of wire.  I found the beaver floating in
> the water the next morning.  Conibears, as good as they are, do not
> always kill immediately, nor do caught beavers always sink (usually
> though).Respectfully,
> John EnosTrapRJohn
> [e-mail]
> "It's God's Responsibility to Forgive Bin Laden,
> It's Our Responsibility To Arrange The Meeting!!!" ----- Original
> Message -----From: "Mike Moore" <[e-mail]>To:
> <[e-mail]>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:54
> PMSubject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! >     We always used
> conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and
> > they sink like a rock. They work best on slide sets and if water is
> low,
> > opennings to the den. We have caught beaver on leg hold traps, but
> always
> > tag teamed them (used two at one set). Since the line was run in the
> morning,
> > you never know how much struggle they put up before going under. My
> dad
> > always said the natural instincts of a beaver when in trouble was to
> go deep.
> > If so, that helps when you are trying to drown them. Some animals
> will chew
> > off their legs to get out of the trap, but hadn't seen a beaver do
> it.
> >                                     mike.

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
John,
<br>    Having caught (and there for seen) muskrats and
mink with
<br>only three legs I would have to disagree. The numbs of the legs
<br>were bare down to the bone. My thoughts on it was that they did
<br>wiggle, turn, fight and wear down the caught leg till it was able
<br>separate itself from the trap.
<br>    So maybe I shouldn't of used the term "chewed",
but I also have
<br>seen raccoon try to do the same thing. Weather you reason that the
animal
<br>cannot know how to escape by doing this or not is semantics. Many a
time
<br>I have caught small animals with their legs broken from trying to escape
<br>(the only thing holding them was the muscle and some time skin). Why
does
<br>the trapping community like to blast any negative information? Trapping
has its
<br>place in society. Some people (especially groups like you mentioned)
would love
<br>to see it stopped. But no matter how much pressure is put on states
and communities
<br>to stop it, trapping will continue. I was raised in a  trapping
family. My kids
<br>know the difference between recreational trapping and when it is needed
for control.
<br>Blasphene? In some circles. I know that here in Colorado it is nice
to go to the mountains
<br>and see beavers replenished in the natural surroundings. Making the
ponds and streams
<br>lie it was during and before the fur trade. Just one man's opinion.
<br>
<p>[e-mail] wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font size=+1>Mike,</font>
<br><font size=+1>    First, I don't know who told you that
some animals chew their legs off to get out of traps, but it is about time
for that rumor to die, because it is a fabrication of the animal rights
extremist Waco's who would also have you believe that a breakfast of bacon,
eggs and milk is "the breakfast of cruelty"!!!  (Quote from The Humane
Society of The United States)  Or that it is ok to blow up a research
facility that does testing on animals (PETA), or that the pictures they
show such as the fawn (still with spots) and a #4 double longspring on
it's leg, was killed by the trap!!!  The truth behind the myth is
that animals caught in a trap fight the trap in different ways.  3
animals are chewers, skunk porcupines and raccoons.  They do NOT (cannot)
reason that by chewing their leg off they can go free!!!  While K-9's
tug and pull at the trap, and otters bite everything in it's path (trees
bushes, sticks, etc) the 3 chewers fight the trap by biting the trap and
trying to chew the trap off of them.  In the process their caught
foot goes numb and they can no longer feel it.  While chewing at the
trap they will bite and chew the numb part of the foot that is under the
trap jaws because they can't feel it!!!  If there isn't much foot
under the jaws, the critter can pull out of the trap.  They do NOT
chew their foot anywhere above the trap jaws where they still have blood
circulation and feeling.  The fix for catching these chewers is to
use a smaller trap that isn't big enough for them to get their snout under
the jaw to chew in the first place (size 1.5 or smaller trap - #1 is better),
check sets early in the morning to remove critters before they have a chance
to do much damage, or make a drowning set so they die instead of fight
the trap.  The longer any live critter is in a trap, the more damage
they will do to themselves in their normal attempts to get away from the
thing that bit their foot!!!  Passing on these false rumors causes
the general public to be disgusted at stories like this and to join the
move to outlaw trapping.</font><font size=+1>    Second,
conibears are the best beaver trap today.  I did not address the conibear
trap in my earlier post because, this being a history list, the conibear
trap didn't exist in the rocky mountains in the early and mid 1800's.
I caught a 42# beaver this past fall that had gotten out of the water somewhere
away from my set, then entered the water (and my conibear) from the land
side of the trap, then twisted itself up in 10 feet of wire.  I found
the beaver floating in the water the next morning.  Conibears, as
good as they are, do not always kill immediately, nor do caught beavers
always sink (usually though).</font><font size=+1>Respectfully,</font>
<br><font size=+1>John Enos</font><font size=+1>TrapRJohn</font>
<br><font size=+1><a href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a></font>
<br><font size=+1>"It's God's Responsibility to Forgive Bin Laden,</font>
<br><font size=+1>It's Our Responsibility To Arrange The Meeting!!!"</font> <font size=+1>-----
Original Message -----</font><font size=+1>From: "Mike Moore" <<a href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>></font><font size=+1>To:
<<a href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>></font><font size=+1>Sent:
Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:54 PM</font><font size=+1>Subject: Re: MtMan-List:
Beaver on the Brain!</font> <font size=+1>>
We always used conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and</font>
<br><font size=+1>> they sink like a rock. They work best on slide sets
and if water is low,</font>
<br><font size=+1>> opennings to the den. We have caught beaver on leg
hold traps, but always</font>
<br><font size=+1>> tag teamed them (used two at one set). Since the line
was run in the morning,</font>
<br><font size=+1>> you never know how much struggle they put up before
going under. My dad</font>
<br><font size=+1>> always said the natural instincts of a beaver when
in trouble was to go deep.</font>
<br><font size=+1>> If so, that helps when you are trying to drown them.
<b><i>Some animals will chew</i></b></font>
<br><b><i><font size=+1>> off their legs to get out of the trap, but hadn't
seen a beaver do it.</font></i></b>
<br><font size=+1>>
mike.</font></blockquote>
</html>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WAS Beaver catch
Date: 07 Feb 2002 22:26:01 -0500

kent---
we didnt do much fleshing---our hide buyer would pay the same prive
fleshed or not---and he prefered that we didnt do it---may have paid us
less but still close to market that week---we held hides sometimes hoping
to get the price to rise---had 45 days after the season closed to sell
the hides or else hold them until the next year and we didnt ever want or
do that.

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 08 Feb 2002 01:19:15 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Mike,
    We were talking about beavers in the first post, so mink and muskrat =
change things a little.  These critters don't chew their legs off =
either!!!  However, I have seen mink chew the caught muskrat's leg off =
to be able to carry it away to a safe place for a meal.  As a trapper =
evolves, and reads and goes to seminars, he learns to adjust traps =
before the season for optimum performance, and make sets that do a =
minimum if any damage.  Properly by today's standards, you should drown =
a mink or muskrat, or if that isn't possible, use a 110 conibear to =
secure and kill the critter.  I have caught a couple of 3 legged mink =
with the damage well healed over and fur growing!!!  It's impossible to =
say how they lost their legs.  Besides improper sized and or improperly =
adjusted or rigged traps which can break a mink or muskrat's pencil thin =
leg bones, there are several predators and natural phenomena that could =
be responsible for the missing legs.  One of those 3 legged mink in =
particular had a particularly fine hide that brought $7.00 more than any =
other mink sold that day. =20
    The failure of animals to reason is not semantics, it is scientific =
fact.  They react to their environment, but people reason, animals =
don't.  There is an excellent article in the February 2002 issue of =
Fur-Fish-Game called Deer Physiology 101 on pages 43-45.  Though this =
article is about deer, the author does a fine job of explaining how and =
why animals react due to chemical changes in their bodies such as the =
production of adrenaline or epinephrine, but they don't reason, and the =
chemical changes are involuntary, meaning the animal has no conscious =
control of what is known as the "fight or flight" reaction. =20
    As I stated before, animals will fight the trap, it's not normal for =
them to be held by something to a small spot.  If the trap is rigged =
right with enough swivels and or shock springs, etc, and the right trap =
is used for the situation, injury is kept to a minimum, with the vast =
majority of catches experiencing no injury at all.  It's not that I am =
"blasting negative information", rather I am trying to correct a false =
impression/statement with the truth.  When I was a beginning trapper, I =
made some of the mistakes that caused wringouts and broken limbs, etc.  =
Then I learned correct methods and to use the right trap for the critter =
and situation.  The wringouts virtually stopped when I applied what I =
had learned.  Now I teach it as a Certified Trapper Education =
Instructor. =20
    Trapping does have a place in society.  It is the primary tool of =
furbearer management, like hunting is the primary tool of game =
management.  However, there are places in this country that have =
outlawed trapping.  It is a dangerous thing to say "trapping will =
continue regardless of public pressure".  The public can shut it down, =
and have in places.  Then when the need arises, the paid officials from =
Fish & Game Departments will do the trapping which will cost the =
taxpayer, and the "free trapper" will go the way of the buffalo.  Don't =
believe it???  Make a call to the Massachusetts Fish and Game Dept, or =
the New Jersey Fish and Game Department.  Ask their Chief biologist what =
impact severely restricted or stopped trapping is having in their =
states.  Maybe there is someone on this list who is from Mass or NJ who =
could shed some light.  The public, as I understand it, put a stop to =
cougar hunting in California.  Now cougars eat joggers and kids playing =
in their back yards.  Fish and Game officials have to hunt down the =
offending cougar, after the damage is done, because population control =
by hunting is against the law.  Public pressure did that. =20
    I was a lobbyist for the trappers association years ago (for 4 =
years)here in New Hampshire, and did a lot of research and documented =
everything I could.  I have testified many times at House and Senate =
hearings on all subjects to do with trapping and wildlife.  I am =
responsible for leading the effort that defeated anti-trapping bill's =
and supporting pro trapping bills that made it into law.  I was also =
considered an expert by the House Fish & Game committee, and as such, =
received many invitations to committee meetings to provide expert =
opinion and information when they were deliberating on a Bill.  I =
mention these credentials to show that I have done my homework.  =
Everything I have stated here, I have previously documented, as that is =
the only way to be credible in the eyes of Senators and Representatives. =
 Some of this documentation included the scientific studies mentioned in =
my last post.  That's how my stick floats. =20
Sincerely and Respectfully,
John Enos #1825
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]=20

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Mike Moore=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:23 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!


  John,=20
      Having caught (and there for seen) muskrats and mink with=20
  only three legs I would have to disagree. The numbs of the legs=20
  were bare down to the bone. My thoughts on it was that they did=20
  wiggle, turn, fight and wear down the caught leg till it was able=20
  separate itself from the trap.=20
      So maybe I shouldn't of used the term "chewed", but I also have=20
  seen raccoon try to do the same thing. Weather you reason that the =
animal=20
  cannot know how to escape by doing this or not is semantics. Many a =
time=20
  I have caught small animals with their legs broken from trying to =
escape=20
  (the only thing holding them was the muscle and some time skin). Why =
does=20
  the trapping community like to blast any negative information? =
Trapping has its=20
  place in society. Some people (especially groups like you mentioned) =
would love=20
  to see it stopped. But no matter how much pressure is put on states =
and communities=20
  to stop it, trapping will continue. I was raised in a  trapping =
family. My kids=20
  know the difference between recreational trapping and when it is =
needed for control.=20
  Blasphene? In some circles. I know that here in Colorado it is nice to =
go to the mountains=20
  and see beavers replenished in the natural surroundings. Making the =
ponds and streams=20
  lie it was during and before the fur trade. Just one man's opinion.=20
   =20
  [e-mail] wrote:=20

    Mike,=20
        First, I don't know who told you that some animals chew their =
legs off to get out of traps, but it is about time for that rumor to =
die, because it is a fabrication of the animal rights extremist Waco's =
who would also have you believe that a breakfast of bacon, eggs and milk =
is "the breakfast of cruelty"!!!  (Quote from The Humane Society of The =
United States)  Or that it is ok to blow up a research facility that =
does testing on animals (PETA), or that the pictures they show such as =
the fawn (still with spots) and a #4 double longspring on it's leg, was =
killed by the trap!!!  The truth behind the myth is that animals caught =
in a trap fight the trap in different ways.  3 animals are chewers, =
skunk porcupines and raccoons.  They do NOT (cannot) reason that by =
chewing their leg off they can go free!!!  While K-9's tug and pull at =
the trap, and otters bite everything in it's path (trees bushes, sticks, =
etc) the 3 chewers fight the trap by biting the trap and trying to chew =
the trap off of them.  In the process their caught foot goes numb and =
they can no longer feel it.  While chewing at the trap they will bite =
and chew the numb part of the foot that is under the trap jaws because =
they can't feel it!!!  If there isn't much foot under the jaws, the =
critter can pull out of the trap.  They do NOT chew their foot anywhere =
above the trap jaws where they still have blood circulation and feeling. =
 The fix for catching these chewers is to use a smaller trap that isn't =
big enough for them to get their snout under the jaw to chew in the =
first place (size 1.5 or smaller trap - #1 is better), check sets early =
in the morning to remove critters before they have a chance to do much =
damage, or make a drowning set so they die instead of fight the trap.  =
The longer any live critter is in a trap, the more damage they will do =
to themselves in their normal attempts to get away from the thing that =
bit their foot!!!  Passing on these false rumors causes the general =
public to be disgusted at stories like this and to join the move to =
outlaw trapping.    Second, conibears are the best beaver trap today.  I =
did not address the conibear trap in my earlier post because, this being =
a history list, the conibear trap didn't exist in the rocky mountains in =
the early and mid 1800's.  I caught a 42# beaver this past fall that had =
gotten out of the water somewhere away from my set, then entered the =
water (and my conibear) from the land side of the trap, then twisted =
itself up in 10 feet of wire.  I found the beaver floating in the water =
the next morning.  Conibears, as good as they are, do not always kill =
immediately, nor do caught beavers always sink (usually =
though).Respectfully,=20
    John EnosTrapRJohn=20
    [e-mail]=20
    "It's God's Responsibility to Forgive Bin Laden,=20
    It's Our Responsibility To Arrange The Meeting!!!" ----- Original =
Message -----From: "Mike Moore" <[e-mail]>To: =
<[e-mail]>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:54 =
PMSubject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! >     We always used =
conibears on beaver. It takes the wind out them and=20
    > they sink like a rock. They work best on slide sets and if water =
is low,=20
    > opennings to the den. We have caught beaver on leg hold traps, but =
always=20
    > tag teamed them (used two at one set). Since the line was run in =
the morning,=20
    > you never know how much struggle they put up before going under. =
My dad=20
    > always said the natural instincts of a beaver when in trouble was =
to go deep.=20
    > If so, that helps when you are trying to drown them. Some animals =
will chew=20
    > off their legs to get out of the trap, but hadn't seen a beaver do =
it.=20
    >                                     mike.
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Mike,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>    We were talking about beavers in =
the first=20
post, so mink and muskrat change things a little.  These critters =
don't=20
chew their legs off either!!!  However, I have seen mink chew the =
caught=20
muskrat's leg off to be able to carry it away to a safe place for a =

meal.  As a trapper evolves, and reads and goes to seminars, he =
learns to=20
adjust traps before the season for optimum performance, and make sets =
that do a=20
minimum if any damage.  Properly by today's standards, you =
should=20
drown a mink or muskrat, or if that isn't possible, use a 110 conibear =
to secure=20
and kill the critter.  I have caught a couple of 3 legged mink with =
the=20
damage well healed over and fur growing!!!  It's impossible to say =
how they=20
lost their legs.  Besides improper sized and or =
improperly=20
adjusted or rigged traps which can break a mink or =
muskrat's pencil=20
thin leg bones, there are several predators and natural phenomena that =
could be=20
responsible for the missing legs.  One of those 3 legged mink in =
particular=20
had a particularly fine hide that brought $7.00 more than any other mink =
sold=20
that day.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>    The failure of animals to reason =
is not=20
semantics, it is scientific fact.  They react to their environment, =
but=20
people reason, animals don't.  There is an excellent article in the =

February 2002 issue of <STRONG><U>Fur-Fish-Game</U></STRONG> called=20
<EM><STRONG>Deer Physiology 101</STRONG></EM> on pages 43-45.  =
Though=20
this article is about deer, the author does a fine job of explaining how =
and why=20
animals react due to chemical changes in their bodies such as the =
production of=20
adrenaline or epinephrine, but they don't reason, and the chemical =
changes are=20
involuntary, meaning the animal has no conscious control of what is =
known as the=20
"fight or flight" reaction.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>    As I stated before, animals will =
fight the=20
trap, it's not normal for them to be held by something to a small =
spot.  If=20
the trap is rigged right with enough swivels and or shock springs, etc, =
and the=20
right trap is used for the situation, injury is kept to a minimum, with =
the vast=20
majority of catches experiencing no injury at all.  It's not that I =
am=20
"blasting negative information", rather I am trying to correct =
a false=20
impression/statement with the truth.  When I was =
a beginning=20
trapper, I made some of the mistakes that caused wringouts and broken =
limbs,=20
etc.  Then I learned correct methods and to use the right trap for =
the=20
critter and situation.  The wringouts virtually stopped when I =
applied what=20
I had learned.  Now I teach it as a Certified Trapper Education=20
Instructor.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>    Trapping does have a place in=20
society.  It is the primary tool of furbearer management, like =
hunting=20
is the primary tool of game management.  However, there are places =
in this=20
country that have outlawed trapping.  It is a dangerous thing to =
say=20
"trapping will continue regardless of public pressure".  The public =
can=20
shut it down, and have in places.  Then when the need arises, the =
paid=20
officials from Fish & Game Departments will do the trapping which =
will cost=20
the taxpayer, and the "free trapper" will go the way of the =
buffalo.  Don't=20
believe it???  Make a call to the Massachusetts Fish and Game Dept, =
or the=20
New Jersey Fish and Game Department.  Ask their Chief =
biologist what=20
impact severely restricted or stopped trapping is having in their =
states. =20
Maybe there is someone on this list who is from Mass or NJ who could =
shed some=20
light.  The public, as I understand it, put a stop to cougar =
hunting in=20
California.  Now cougars eat joggers and kids playing in their back =

yards.  Fish and Game officials have to hunt down the =
offending=20
cougar, after the damage is done, because population control by hunting =
is=20
against the law.  Public pressure did that.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>    I was a lobbyist for the trappers =

association years ago (for 4 years)here in New Hampshire, and did a lot =
of=20
research and documented everything I could.  I have testified many =
times at=20
House and Senate hearings on all subjects to do with trapping and=20
wildlife.  I am responsible for leading the effort that defeated=20
anti-trapping bill's and supporting pro trapping bills that made it into =

law.  I was also considered an expert by the House Fish & Game=20
committee, and as such, received many invitations to committee meetings =
to=20
provide expert opinion and information when they were deliberating on a=20
Bill.  I mention these credentials to show that I have done my =

homework.  Everything I have stated here, I have previously =
documented, as=20
that is the only way to be credible in the eyes of Senators and=20
Representatives.  Some of this documentation included the =
scientific=20
studies mentioned in my last post.  That's how my stick =
floats. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Sincerely and Respectfully,<BR>John Enos =
#1825</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>TrapRJohn<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> =
<BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Mike=20
  Moore</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 07, =
2002 10:23=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Beaver =
on the=20
  Brain!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>John, <BR>    Having caught (and there =
for seen)=20
  muskrats and mink with <BR>only three legs I would have to disagree. =
The numbs=20
  of the legs <BR>were bare down to the bone. My thoughts on it was that =
they=20
  did <BR>wiggle, turn, fight and wear down the caught leg till it was =
able=20
  <BR>separate itself from the trap. <BR>    So maybe I =
shouldn't=20
  of used the term "chewed", but I also have <BR>seen raccoon try to do =
the same=20
  thing. Weather you reason that the animal <BR>cannot know how to =
escape by=20
  doing this or not is semantics. Many a time <BR>I have caught small =
animals=20
  with their legs broken from trying to escape <BR>(the only thing =
holding them=20
  was the muscle and some time skin). Why does <BR>the trapping =
community like=20
  to blast any negative information? Trapping has its <BR>place in =
society. Some=20
  people (especially groups like you mentioned) would love <BR>to see it =

  stopped. But no matter how much pressure is put on states and =
communities=20
  <BR>to stop it, trapping will continue. I was raised in a  =
trapping=20
  family. My kids <BR>know the difference between recreational trapping =
and when=20
  it is needed for control. <BR>Blasphene? In some circles. I know that =
here in=20
  Colorado it is nice to go to the mountains <BR>and see beavers =
replenished in=20
  the natural surroundings. Making the ponds and streams <BR>lie it was =
during=20
  and before the fur trade. Just one man's opinion. <BR> =20
  <P>[e-mail] wrote:=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">
    <STYLE></STYLE>
    <FONT size=3D+1>Mike,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D+1>    =
First, I=20
    don't know who told you that some animals chew their legs off to get =
out of=20
    traps, but it is about time for that rumor to die, because it is a=20
    fabrication of the animal rights extremist Waco's who would also =
have you=20
    believe that a breakfast of bacon, eggs and milk is "the breakfast =
of=20
    cruelty"!!!  (Quote from The Humane Society of The United =
States) =20
    Or that it is ok to blow up a research facility that does testing on =
animals=20
    (PETA), or that the pictures they show such as the fawn (still with =
spots)=20
    and a #4 double longspring on it's leg, was killed by the =
trap!!!  The=20
    truth behind the myth is that animals caught in a trap fight the =
trap in=20
    different ways.  3 animals are chewers, skunk porcupines and=20
    raccoons.  They do NOT (cannot) reason that by chewing their =
leg off=20
    they can go free!!!  While K-9's tug and pull at the trap, and =
otters=20
    bite everything in it's path (trees bushes, sticks, etc) the 3 =
chewers fight=20
    the trap by biting the trap and trying to chew the trap off of =
them. =20
    In the process their caught foot goes numb and they can no longer =
feel=20
    it.  While chewing at the trap they will bite and chew the numb =
part of=20
    the foot that is under the trap jaws because they can't feel =
it!!!  If=20
    there isn't much foot under the jaws, the critter can pull out of =
the=20
    trap.  They do NOT chew their foot anywhere above the trap jaws =
where=20
    they still have blood circulation and feeling.  The fix for =
catching=20
    these chewers is to use a smaller trap that isn't big enough for =
them to get=20
    their snout under the jaw to chew in the first place (size 1.5 or =
smaller=20
    trap - #1 is better), check sets early in the morning to remove =
critters=20
    before they have a chance to do much damage, or make a drowning set =
so they=20
    die instead of fight the trap.  The longer any live critter is =
in a=20
    trap, the more damage they will do to themselves in their normal =
attempts to=20
    get away from the thing that bit their foot!!!  Passing on =
these false=20
    rumors causes the general public to be disgusted at stories like =
this and to=20
    join the move to outlaw trapping.</FONT><FONT =
size=3D+1>   =20
    Second, conibears are the best beaver trap today.  I did not =
address=20
    the conibear trap in my earlier post because, this being a history =
list, the=20
    conibear trap didn't exist in the rocky mountains in the early and =
mid=20
    1800's.  I caught a 42# beaver this past fall that had gotten =
out of=20
    the water somewhere away from my set, then entered the water (and my =

    conibear) from the land side of the trap, then twisted itself up in =
10 feet=20
    of wire.  I found the beaver floating in the water the next=20
    morning.  Conibears, as good as they are, do not always kill=20
    immediately, nor do caught beavers always sink (usually =
though).</FONT><FONT=20
    size=3D+1>Respectfully,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D+1>John =
Enos</FONT><FONT=20
    size=3D+1>TrapRJohn</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D+1><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></FONT>=20
    <BR><FONT size=3D+1>"It's God's Responsibility to Forgive Bin =
Laden,</FONT>=20
    <BR><FONT size=3D+1>It's Our Responsibility To Arrange The=20
    Meeting!!!"</FONT> <FONT size=3D+1>----- Original Message=20
    -----</FONT><FONT size=3D+1>From: "Mike Moore" <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>></FONT=
><FONT=20
    size=3D+1>To: <<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>></FONT><FONT=20
    size=3D+1>Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:54 PM</FONT><FONT=20
    size=3D+1>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the =
Brain!</FONT> <FONT=20
    size=3D+1>>     We always used conibears on =
beaver. It=20
    takes the wind out them and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D+1>> they =
sink like a=20
    rock. They work best on slide sets and if water is low,</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
    size=3D+1>> opennings to the den. We have caught beaver on leg =
hold traps,=20
    but always</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D+1>> tag teamed them (used two =
at one=20
    set). Since the line was run in the morning,</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D+1>>=20
    you never know how much struggle they put up before going under. My=20
    dad</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D+1>> always said the natural =
instincts of a=20
    beaver when in trouble was to go deep.</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D+1>> If so,=20
    that helps when you are trying to drown them. <B><I>Some animals =
will=20
    chew</I></B></FONT> <BR><B><I><FONT size=3D+1>> off their legs to =
get out=20
    of the trap, but hadn't seen a beaver do it.</FONT></I></B> =
<BR><FONT=20
    =
size=3D+1>>          =
;            =
            &=
nbsp; =20
    mike.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Re: MtMan-List: cougar
Date: 07 Feb 2002 23:20:38 -0800

<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV>As a Californicator, I can attest to the cougar problem.  After they became protected, the cougar population has exploded.  They are highly adaptable creatures.  They learn to live in suburban areas, and have been known to prey on children, joggers, etc....  Game management is not a concept understood by Peta, etc.... In the area in which I live, it is becoming dangerous to take a walk, jog, or bike ride  outside of the city limits. You might become cat food.  A friend of mine was chased by a cougar while Mtn. bike riding, within a mile of my house. Luckily he was going downhill, and escaped.  More power to the cats, as far as I'm concerned, but they don't need complete protection.  In one well known case a female jogger was killed.  The offending cougar was tracked and killed.  Then it's kits were found.  "The poor orphaned kittens."  A lot of money came pouring in to 'save' the kittens.  Guess how much money was donated to help the dead womans children?  Virtually none.  That's the way it is here on the 'Left' coast.....sheeesh.....     Just my opinion.    hardtack  </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"> </DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT size=4>The public, as I understand it, put a stop to cougar hunting in California.  Now cougars eat joggers and kids playing in their back yards.  Fish and Game officials have to hunt down the offending cougar, after the damage is done, because population control by hunting is against the law.  Public pressure did that</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>John Enos #1825</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>TrapRJohn<BR><A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> <BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></FONT>--- Randal Bublitz</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV>we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,</DIV>
<DIV>we are Borrowing it from our Children</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 08 Feb 2002 08:05:17 EST

You folks need to listen to John Enos,  I am also a State Certified Trapping
Instructor, and have and am serving on the Board of Directors of my State
trapping Assn. and a Life Member of the National Trappers Assn.  Mr. Enos
speaks the truth here in his writings.
                                                       TrapRjoe

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 08 Feb 2002 10:47:57 -0500

well said trapperjohn

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
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From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Making Mocs
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:15:19 -0700

I have a question about making mocs.  I am having problems getting the
heel right.  I first sewed them up too loose so the moc did not fit
right.  It was surprise to me that the biggest problem with loose mocs
is that they slide forward   Then I frog sewed/unsewed (Rip it, rip
it).  I tried to shape the heel like it shows in the Book of Buckskin
III.  It ended up fitting real nice but it left the horizontal seam
under the heel of my foot.  This is uncomfortable as well as leaving
threads exposed to excess wear.

How wide is best to make the heel seam, ie how high up from the bottom
to cut it?  And how do you get the moc to fit and be tight without
getting that seam to far forward?

Guess I should not complain, at least my mocs are getting sewed on
instead of my leg.  Best of luck Capt.

Wynn Ormond



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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Making Mocs
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:49:01 -0800



> How wide is best to make the heel seam, ie how high up from the bottom
> to cut it?

Wynn,

Not that I am an expert but I have fought my way through a couple pairs over
the years. Assuming your using fairly soft leather (so that is not part of
the problem) this is how I approach it.

I get the foot part to fit so that the moc closes over the top of my arch in
such a manner that my foot will only go in as far as I wish. Then I worry
about the back of the moc. Don't sew up the back until your happy with how
your foot slides in.

With that done, pinch the back of the moc from top down to decide where that
back seam goes. Sew down but not all the way down. Leave that back seam a
couple finger widths up from the heal but with enough leather sticking back
past the heal to fold up and make the connection.

Make your "rear" flap cuts just short of heal width and fold that flap up so
it wraps the heal and comes up neatly to the bottom of the back seam. Trim
the extra material that will be behind that flap so that you form a slight
arch from one side to the other starting at where one side of the back flat
comes in, over to the other side.

You should now be able to fold the flap up, either leave it square or round
it to match the cut out arch in the back of the body of the moc and sew it
up around the edges with an overhand stitch like you were heming the bottom
of a pair of pants. Just keeping the flap from falling down. You could use
an in/out stitch but it might be harder, depends on your needle and such.
Your choice.

 And how do you get the moc to fit and be tight without
> getting that seam to far forward?

Like I said, you just have to get the front part fitting before you try to
close up the back seam. remember to do it with socks and etc. if your using
them. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the well wishes on the leg bobbing job next week. <G>

Capt. Lahti'




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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 08 Feb 2002 17:51:24 -0800




>From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
>Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 18:07:50 -0700
>
>At 06:40 PM 2/7/2002 EST, you wrote:
> >Here it my two cents on trapping beaver .I use #4 victor long spring with
> >about a eight foot chain. I will place the trap near shore then  I will
>run
> >the chain out into the water about five are six feet away from the trap.
>take
> >the o ring run pole through it and drive it into the stream bottom. Next
>ran
> >three are four stakes around the pole .As the beaver is caught he swims
>for
> >deeper water and ends up going arond the stakes with the chain the chain
>gets
> >wrapped around the stakes. and drowns.

Rick,
    I sent your method of trapping beaver using the 'tangle stakes' to my
brother, Eric. His reply was:

    "Sue, that tanglestake idea may have worked some of the time.  Yet, if
one traps enough places with different terrain they will encounter soft
muddy bottoms, and the silt found in old beaver marshes made many beaver
generations ago. Again, the bedrock found in many streams makes it
impossible to drive a stake.  Unless you drilled holes during the summer
months using an airtrack drill and drained the area.  Also, the gravel
bottom rivers will not hold a stake.  I can not beleive the bygone trappers
just avoided trapping thease areas where the river bottoms were not fit for
driving stakes.
    Most likely the 'float stick' that you mentioned worked like the marks
in the soil from a drag on a coyote trap.  In that the dry dead wood was
attached to a string and tied to the trap chain.  That way when the beavers
drug off the trap from the stake that pulled out or the different set
arangement, the beaver and trap could be found.  Hard to fathom anyone
beleiving the 'tangle stake' method was the only one utilized.  If it was,
then evidently mountain men lost more than they caught: which I doubt.
   Sue, you might tell those boys the drowning wire didn't come into being
in trapping till the early 20th century.  Most likely during the depression
trapping boom or before.  As for the conibear #330s; I think they realize
how authentic a trap that they are.  Sue, you remember all those beaver I
snuck in the house to show grandma and guests at times when I knew mother
wouldn't chew me out in front of company.  Well, it sounds like a few of
those aledged trappers are only quoting a book; never actually having trully
made an effective beaver set nor laid any steel."

Well, Rick that's eric's oppinion.  is there any other method that a trapper
could use other than tangle stakes and an anchor pole?

Interesting,

Sue Raven

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 08 Feb 2002 18:11:54 -0800




>From: [e-mail]
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 07:38:57 EST
>
>I hate to disagree, but if you claim a trap will drown a beaver with its
>weight alone, you either have caught nothing but kits, or sir you like a
>lot
>of the old mountain men, sure embellish the truth.

Trapper Joe,
   Eric, my brother wholely agrees with you.  But based upon some of the
documents one wonders what actual methods were used.  Like a lot of things;
when beaver were no longer in vogue the art died out.  Many of the methods
were either never written down or told to anyone except those in the trade.
Why would a man seek more competition or those whom would catch his future
beaver.  The following is from  Mrs. Fuller's book:

                               The River of the West

Chapter III.



1830. Sublette's camp commenced moving back to the east side of the Rocky
Mountains in October. Its course was up Henry's
fork of the Snake River, through the North Pass to Missouri Lake, in which
rises the Madison fork of the Missouri River. The
beaver were very plenty on Henry's fork, and our young trapper had great
success in making up his packs; having learned the art
of setting his traps very readily. The manner in which the trapper takes his
game is as follows:--

He has an ordinary steel trap weighing five pounds, attached to a chain five
feet long, with a swivel and ring at the end, which
plays round what is called the float, a dry stick of wood, about six feet
long. The trapper wades out into the stream, which is
shallow, and cuts with his knife a bed for the trap, five or six inches
under water. He then takes the float out the whole length of
the chain in the direction of the centre of the stream, and drives it into
the mud, so fast that the beaver cannot draw it out; at the
same time tying the other end by a thong to the bank. A small stick or twig,
dipped in musk or castor, serves for bait, and is placed
so as to hang directly above the trap, which is now set. The trapper then
throws water plentifully over the adjacent bank to
conceal any foot prints or scent by which the beaver would be alarmed, and
going to some distance wades out of the stream.

In setting a trap, several things are to be observed with care:--first, that
the trap is firmly fixed, and the proper distance from the
bank--for if the beaver can get on shore with the trap, he will cut off his
foot to escape: secondly, that the float is of dry wood, for
should it not be, the little animal will cut it off at a stroke, and
swimming with the trap to the middle of the dam, be drowned by its
weight. In the latter case, when the hunter visits his traps in the morning,
he is under the necessity of plunging into the water and
swimming out to dive for the missing trap, and his game. Should the morning
be frosty and chill, as it very frequently is in the
mountains, diving for traps is not the pleasantest exercise. In placing the
bait, care must be taken to fix it just where the beaver in
reaching it will spring the trap. If the bait-stick be placed high, the hind
foot of the beaver will be caught: if low, his fore foot.

The manner in which the beavers make their dam, and construct their lodge,
has long been reckoned among the wonders of the
animal creation; and while some observers have claimed for the little
creature more sagacity than it really possesses, its instinct is
still sufficiently wonderful. It is certainly true that it knows how to keep
the water of a stream to a certain level, by means of an
obstruction; and that it cuts down trees for the purpose of backing up the
water by a dam. It is not true, however, that it can
always fell a tree in the direction required for this purpose. The timber
about a beaver dam is felled in all directions; but as trees
that grow near the water, generally lean towards it, the tree, when cut,
takes the proper direction by gravitation alone. The beaver
then proceeds to cut up the fallen timber into lengths of about three feet,
and to convey them to the spot where the dam is to be
situated, securing them in their places by means of mud and stones. The work
is commenced when the water is low, and carried
on as it rises, until it has attained the desired height. And not only is it
made of the requisite height and strength, but its shape is
suited exactly to the nature of the stream in which it is built. If the
water is sluggish the dam is straight; if rapid and turbulent, the
barrier is constructed of a convex form, the better to resist the action of
the water.


Of course I have always beleived that men have always told women the whole
truth.

Sue Raven



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 00:38:49 EST

I once wrote on article on trapper productivity during the fur trade era.  If
anyone is interested, I could post it ont the list.  Could do it as an
attachment, just post it, or make it available to those who request it.
Anybody have a preference? (does anyone want to see it?)

Jim Hardee, AMM#1676

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 00:54:32 EST


--part1_139.91e9823.29961398_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/8/02 11:39:36 PM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Anybody have a preference? (does anyone want to see it?)
>

Mr.Hardee,
I'd like to see it, however you share it.
Larry in MS

--part1_139.91e9823.29961398_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/8/02 11:39:36 PM Central Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Anybody have a preference? (does anyone want to see it?)<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Mr.Hardee,<BR>
I'd like to see it, however you share it.<BR>
Larry in MS</FONT></HTML>

--part1_139.91e9823.29961398_boundary--

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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 08 Feb 2002 22:38:17 -0800


Jim, could you write it out long hand and bring it by?   I'd appreciate it.
<g>   It seems to me I have seen it?  Was it published?   T & LR?   sure
sounds familiar.  I heard HBC was fun, if not crowded.  Looking forward to
seeing you in the Spring.  Will you be coming to the mission?  Hope so.
YFAB   hardtack


> Anybody have a preference? (does anyone want to see it?)
>
> Jim Hardee, AMM#1676

--- Randal Bublitz
--- [e-mail]
we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
 we are Borrowing it from our Ch


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From: Rick Guglielmi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 04:38:36 -0800

I would be most interested in reading your article.

Rick

At 12:38 AM 02/09/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I once wrote on article on trapper productivity during the fur trade era.  If
>anyone is interested, I could post it ont the list.  Could do it as an
>attachment, just post it, or make it available to those who request it.
>Anybody have a preference? (does anyone want to see it?)
>
>Jim Hardee, AMM#1676
>
>----------------------
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From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 07:39:20 -0700




> At 12:38 AM 02/09/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >I once wrote on article on trapper productivity during the fur trade era.  If
> >anyone is interested, I could post it ont the list.  Could do it as an
> >attachment, just post it, or make it available to those who request it.
> >Anybody have a preference? (does anyone want to see it?)
> >
> >Jim Hardee, AMM#1676

Please make it available.  I have concidered doing a little number crunching
myself and I am sure you used the same (Ogdens)  or better sources than I would.

Mind Yer Hair
Wynn Ormond



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From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 06:53:02 -0800 (PST)


Jim,
 Add me to the list.
grn
> Anybody have a preference? (does anyone want to see
> it?)
>
> Jim Hardee, AMM#1676


=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Making Mocs
Date: 09 Feb 2002 10:02:43 -0500

Wynn,

Leather does wierd things of tis own accord sometimes.  Best I can tell you is to pound the bejeezus out of the seam with a hammer to flatten it and make it less irritating or save the sole and try again.

By the by, it sounds as if you are trying plains style mocs.  For a mtn.man portrayal, a center seam moc is just as correct.  Many of the folks from back east wore these style mocs and most of the native heritage trappers would have had this style moc if they were making their own to replace what wore out.  They are easy to make and have one seam...none of it under your heel!!  And you can affix rawhide to the hi-wear areas to prolong their life pretty easily.

-C.Kent

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 10:38:15 EST

Yes add me to that list would love to see it.

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
[e-mail]

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 09 Feb 2002 14:01:16 EST

What you have written that the book said is for the most part true with the
only variances that see would have looked that way to someone who didn't know
better.  There are several ways to set the trap where he will expire before
the trapper gets back to check the trap.  The way you write it is very close
to one of those ways.  Today we have wire and cable that makes the process
much surer and easier.

                                  TrapRJoe

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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:36:14 -0500

Hi TrapRJoe,
    Of coarse you are right.  There are many ways to set, steak, anchor or
utilize drag's on traps today, both on land and in the water.  I have used
most of them at one time or another depending on the targeted critter, the
location and terrain.  My correction to what was posted, was long winded
enough, without going into specifics on all the methods (making for an even
longer answer), and I was trying to keep in mind that we should be talking
primarily about period methods of trapping, and much less about modern
methods.  I think for most every "rule of thumb" you can come up with, there
is also an exception to that "rule".  Also the law and part of the country
you are trapping in makes a difference in what methods you might choose to
use.
    As you know, back in the early 1800's, they had wire, they just didn't
use it (or know they could use it???) for trapping like we do today.  On
their traps, they used chain with a ring on the end, put a sturdy dry (not
beaver food) stick through the ring, and as the ring and stick spent time in
the water, the wood swelled in the ring making the trap pretty secure to the
stick.  If a beaver did manage to pull the steak, the trapper walked down
the stream looking for his floating stick, hence the term "That's how my
stick floats."  I have often said that today's trappers are more
knowledgeable and efficient trappers than the period trappers were, due to
today's greater availability of information, technology, equipment and
methods.  The old trappers used to walk long distances of waterfront to find
just the right place to set a trap.  Today, we know that the trapper can
pick most any spot, modify it to their liking, and set a productive beaver
trap, even in a place a real beaver wouldn't pick.  All things considered,
what the period trappers had to work with, they did a hell of a job!!!  My
hat's certainly off to them!!!
YMHS,
John Enos
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]
"The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty, is
that it was lost because its possessors failed to stretch forth a saving
hand, while yet there was time."
-- Justice George Sutherland, 1938


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 2:01 PM


> What you have written that the book said is for the most part true with
the
> only variances that see would have looked that way to someone who didn't
know
> better.  There are several ways to set the trap where he will expire
before
> the trapper gets back to check the trap.  The way you write it is very
close
> to one of those ways.  Today we have wire and cable that makes the process
> much surer and easier.
>
>                                   TrapRJoe
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:trapping and other stuff ! (baits)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:04:45 -0500

sue---
I had to trap several areas in the ozarks that there was no way to drive
a stake in the creek bottom or the lake bottom and what i normally did
was tie a drag rock to the chain and place it out into the water and i
would tie some light cord on to the rock---when the beaver would get
cought they have a tendency to go to deep water and when they do they
drag the rock into deeper water and thus drownd then-- when i come by the
set and the trap is gone i would grab the light rope and pull the beaver
in which was attached to the trap and the drag rock I tried the tangle
method a few times but didnt have much success with it in the area i was
trapping---the state trapper that trapped for wolves and ki-dogs used a
metal 3 prong dragg on a lot of their sets---I didnt like that method but
the good part is that they didnt mess up you set but you had to follow
the dragg to retreve your trap and the animal in it------with the stakes
and tangel method o it gives a indication that there was a trap close and
people would steal your traps ---it was kina like a flag on the creek or
lake for all to see---I used a lot of castoreum that i bought thru the
trappers magazine called fur-fish and game smelly stuff but relly will
make a beaver come to your trap I would dip a stick in it and let it hang
out over the trap about a couple of feet from the bank---that way the
beaver was not on solid ground and yes you can drown a beaver in a couple
of feet of water if you do it right---

always wanted to make my own castorium but never knew exactly how and it
was made and it was a lot easier to just buy the scent and know it was
right------just as with fox and bobcat sents---all those is just basic
urine ---the best bate for muskrat i found  was just a slice of apple or
a ear of corn on a stick near the bank with a trap set next to it---but i
did get a few on the castorium for some reason---have been running traps
and set one and then went down the way and heard it snap there was so
many muskrats in the area that that i trapped that was one reason i ran
the traps twice a day---had to make room for more rats in the
trap---muskrat are a lot easier to catch than beaver---I got where i
could almost eliminate a muskrat colony in a few weeks if i worked it
right and that was what the farmers liked because they ruined their dams
with the holes---one other method that i liked was that I would  make a
flote in some of the swampy area and set the trap on the float cought
several that way ----also when i was in a area where i ran out of traps i
would also make fish hook traps and got a lot of rats in their dens
underwater using that method---using a board and fish-hooks and
screws---boy would the peta people come unglued if the saw that trick
done---the best coon fox and bobcat bate i ever found was just plain old
sardeans or the oil out of the cans---for the foxes and bobcats i used
dead chickens or turkeys i picked up from the guy who raised them for
market I would take a string and just hang then up over the trap---got a
few wild house cats with that method also---bet i cought my grandmothers
cat a half dozen times---got to a point when she would get cought she
would just lay down and wait for me to come a release her---that is the
real problem in trapping in or near areas that there are houses and or
pets---have released a bunch of them over the ages---usually warned the
people in the area i would be trapping so they could keep the pets close
to the house and not in the woods---most appreciated the warning and some
didnt listen and i cought their dogs and cats---I also had several box
traps that i used where there was pets in the area and you couldnt
controll them and their movements---they worked good and did not harm the
pets when you caught them---cought a couple of minks in box traps but
that was just luck---they are hard to catch and you relly have to watch
your scent best sets for them were cubby type of sets---

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Fur Trade Houses - research
Date: 09 Feb 2002 19:34:52 EST

With all the knowledge accumulated in the group, I am sure someone can help
me with some research:

I am trying to piece together a composit of what a fur trade post would be
like - west of the Mississippi, American influence and strong Hudsons'Bay
influence.  In size smaller than Fort Union, but larger than Astoria.

Information I am trying to accumulate includes: what activities were housed
within the palasades such as Factor's quarters, storehouse, trade house,
staff quarters, clerk's accomodations, blacksmith shop, "utilities" shop,
root cellar, etc. and assign floor plan dimensions to each.

The composite structure that will come from this is to be correct in every
way that building codes will allow, realizing the public must be "protected".
 Similarly the materials inside and the activites will be correct to the
period - not Hollywood and not contemporary "wannabes".

Right now it is the architecture that is getting the attention to plan for
budget.  I have as reference good details from Fort Ross, Fort Osage, Fort
Michilimakinac, and Fort Ligoner (not geographically correct nor correct in
purpose in all cases, but how the problems of structure and needs were met.

This is a serious project and any and all input will be very much appreciated.

Richard James

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:trapping and other stuff ! (baits)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:41:34 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List:trapping and other stuff ! (baits)
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 15:04:45 -0500
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>sue---
<DIV></DIV>>I had to trap several areas in the ozarks that there was no way to drive
<DIV></DIV>>a stake in the creek bottom or the lake bottom and what i normally did
<DIV></DIV>>was tie a drag rock to the chain and place it out into the water and i
<DIV></DIV>>would tie some light cord on to the rock---when the beaver would get
<DIV></DIV>>cought they have a tendency to go to deep water and when they do they
<DIV></DIV>>drag the rock into deeper water and thus drownd then-- when i come by the
<DIV></DIV>>set and the trap is gone i would grab the light rope and pull the beaver
<DIV></DIV>>in which was attached to the trap and the drag rock I tried the tangle
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>method a few times but didnt have much success with it in the area i was </P>
<P>>trapping---</P>
<P><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">     My brother Eric told me years ago about when he hunted and ran traps in the Blue river(eastern Arizona-south of Alpine), of how he made a simular set.  He told me of a non-target racoon that came into his set.  The rock he had xmas wrapped with double wire was setting on a ledge under water.  The racoon did not pull the heavy rock in the water.  Evidently Rocky knew of his fate if he swam for it.  Eric said it was sure funny seeing this racoon rock and wobble that rock as he approached.  I was so mad at him because he didn't bring it home alive and call me.  He said you can't domesticate grown wild animals that easy.  He said the pull out problem was so bad on coons that he usually drowed them if near water.  He said he caugh ducks, muskrat, and racoons many times on beaver sets.  This method makes good sense for a trapper on limited technology.  Besides, I do not know if a beaver would chew the rope off a rock; but they did have wire a Fort Union prior to 1840.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">       I'll e-mail Eric and see if he will share his formulae for making beaver lure or medicine as ye mountaineers say.</FONT>  </P>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">I'm really jealous of you guys having all the fun,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Sur Raven</FONT></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:49:08 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Mr. John Enos,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would like your critique of the quality of the info on this site on beavers.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" bgColor=#93bee2 border=0 nowrap>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top noWrap>
<TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=Wf cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" align=center border=0 nowrap>
<TBODY>
<TR>
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: ARTICLE - Trapper Productivity
Date: 09 Feb 2002 20:36:52 EST

Here is the article in its entirety.  It was published in The Trapline, vol.
3, #3, Spring 2000.  I hope you find it helpful.


                            Trapper Productivity
                                By Jim Hardee

    Records of production typically drive success in the workplace, i.e. how
many widgets can worker "A" turn out during a given shift?  Similarly,
determining the production of a fur trapper, in terms of beaver pelts
gathered, provides a better understanding of a day's effort in the Shining
Mountains.  Just how many skins did an average trapper take?
    In a discussion of trapper productivity, some general assumptions must be
made.  For example, the length of the trapping season varied from year to
year, depending on weather extremes, location, etc.  Usually, the season was
divided into a Spring and a Fall hunt, each generally lasting for two to
three  months.  Ultimately, general averages must be used for a statistical
analysis of trapper productivity.
    Nathaniel Wyeth estimated a good hunter with average success would take
120 beaver skins in a year, worth in Boston or New York about $1000.
(Chittenden. Vol. 1 p.6)  This is a nice succinct statement of a trapper's
average productivity equating to sixty skins per hunt or about twenty hides
per month.
    Unfortunately, averages are simply that; a mathematical mid-point between
a high and low figure.  Warren Ferris provides an example of these highs and
lows.  He reported his 1831 American Fur Company brigade took from forty to
seventy beaver per day on Henry's Fork.  In the same breath, he described a
small party sent to the "Burnt Hole" on the Madison River that returned
without success.  These numbers would have more meaning had Ferris provided
the number of hunters involved. (Ferris. 159-60)   Another example of the
fickle nature of the business is Thomas Fitzpatrick's report that Benjamin
Bonneville's entire fall hunt in 1833 netted only 112 skins.  That is less
than forty skins per month for a    party consisting of 110 men. (Morgan and
Harris. P. 255.)
    Examination of further examples of production can be examined to
determine if Wyeth's estimate is on the mark.  In 1825, William Ashley
arrived in St. Louis with one hundred packs of beaver skins.  While it is
generally accepted that a pack weighed about ninety to one hundred pounds,
Ashley's packs only weighed an average of fifty-two pounds each.  This is
according to a chart in his account book that lists the first twenty-five
packs.  Assuming these represent the remainder, each pack contained an
average of thirty-two beaver hides making a typical pelt weigh 1.625 pounds.
Ashley's one hundred packs with about thirty-two hides in each one then
equals 3200 total hides.  (Morgan. "Smith" pp. 170 - 173. Morgan "Ashley" pp.
118-29. Russell. p.157.)
    From Ashley's report, there were one hundred twenty men at the
rendezvous.  This equates to about twenty-seven hides per man.  Yet, most of
the men recorded in Ashley's accounts with the trappers at the rendezvous
show far more than this average.  The seven men under Jedediah Smith, for
instance, average ninety-six pounds of beaver each, about one hundred and
fifty skins.  Smith himself is credited with an amazing six hundred sixty
eight pounds of hides.  At first glance, this is almost unbelievable, but a
closer examination shows he is only credited with $275.00.  With beaver at
$3.00 per pound, this equals about ninety two hides; a far more reasonable
total of pelts. (Morgan "Ashley" pp. 126.)
    Did none of the Henry-Ashley men attain Wyeth's average?  Much of the
confusion can be attributed to the difference in assignments of the men in a
trapping party.  Not all of the men are trappers, some being camp keepers.
These latter men generally stayed in camp to watch the stock, prepare the
meals, dress the beaver hides and any of the other mundane activities
required in the camp.  Ferris reports that up to half of the men in the
mountains were camp keepers. (Ferris. pp. 361-62.)  Historian Hiram M
Chittenden, author of "A History of the American Fur Trade of the Far West,"
says there was usually one camp keeper for every two trappers. (Chittenden.
pp. 54-55.)
    In the brigade of men under Smith alluded to above, Ezekiel Able is only
credited with four pounds of beaver while most of his fellows all took vastly
more hides.  Able must have been such a camp keeper in this brigade.  Two
other men, Thomas Eddie and William bell, had fifty-six and fifty pounds
credited to their respective accounts, while the remaining four men have well
over one hundred pounds each.  Thomas Galbraith tallies one hundred
eighty-nine pounds alone.  Eddie and Bell may have been camp keepers too.
This would make three out of the eight men making up Smith's brigade assigned
to the role of camp keeper, which closely approximates Chittenden's report.
    Applying these percentages of camp keepers to the one hundred twenty men
at the first rendezvous increases the individual trapper's take to forty and
fifty-three skins per man; still far short of Wyeth's projection.  Wyeth
apparently wrote this figure in an attempt to drum up financial backing for a
proposed expedition to the mountains.  Perhaps he was too optimistic.
    In 1832, Indian John Dougherty compiled a chart indicating the
expenditures, returns and profits in the fur trade for the fifteen-year
period from 1815 to 1830.  The chart does not stipulate that all the returns
are solely from the rocky Mountain trade and does not differentiate between
hides obtained through trading and trapping.  Using the gross numbers in the
chart and applying the same three percentages of camp keepers used above,
Dougherty indicates the annual return per man to be one hundred twenty-five,
one hundred eighty-six and two hundred fifty skins.  Exactly what information
Dougherty based his calculations on is unknown, but he appears to anticipate
greater returns than Wyeth does. (Chittenden. Vol. 1 p.7)
    Perhaps looking at specific returns will reveal further information.  In
1826, Ashley's rendezvous in Cache Valley netted him one hundred twenty-five
packs that brought him $60,000 in St. Louis.  This comes out to $480 per pack
which, with beaver at $5.00 per pound in St. Louis, closer approximates the
readily accepted one hundred pound pack.  Records show there were one hundred
men at the second rendezvous.  Again, applying the same ratios as above, the
beaver taken per trapper calculates to seventy-six, one hundred fourteen and
one hundred fifty-three hides.  Considering camp keepers into the mix of
trappers brings the return closer to Wyeth's estimate.  (Gowans. p. 31.
Wishart. p. 126.)
    Rendezvous of 1829 netted Smith, Jackson and Sublette 4,076 beaver skins.
 Robert Newell recalled in his memoirs that there were one hundred
seventy-five men present.  While this number seems high, if it is accurate,
the success rate of the men was quite low.  Using the same calculations, the
average take becomes fourteen, twenty-one and twenty-eight, respectively for
each ratio of trapper to camp keeper.  Newell was, himself, a newcomer to the
Rockies, having arrived as one of the fifty-five man crew with Sublette's
supply caravan.  If Newell included these men in his total, they should be
subtracted from the total attendees he says were there for they were
obviously not involved in procuring the fifty-five packs of beaver turned in
at the rendezvous.  Reducing the participants to one hundred twenty increases
the averages to twenty-one, thirty-one and forty-one.  This is still not
terrific but is a little better.  It is a wonder the company could stay in
business.
    In a letter to Francis Ematinger, Wyeth himself provides information
regarding two brigades that can be used in this discussion.  The brigade
under Andrew Drips and Lucien Fontenelle arrived to the 1832 rendezvous in
Pierre's Hole on July 8th.  They had one hundred sixty men with them and had
obtained fifty-one packs of beaver at one hundred pounds each. If all the men
are trappers, the average take is only twenty hides per man.  If two out of
three are trappers, the take increases to thirty per man.  Finally, if half
the men are trappers, the take reaches forty skins a piece; still far short
of Wyeth's lofty goal for a good trapper. (Wyeth. p. 111)
    The same letter includes date on the rocky Mountain Fur Company who
showed up with fifty-five packs of fur but only fifty-five men.  That is one
pack of hides per man.  If all are trappers, that is a yearly average of
about sixty-one beaver each.  With only two thirds of the men trapping while
one third attend camp, the average raises to about ninety-one per trapper.
If half the men are camp keepers then the average finally attains Wyeth's
prediction of one hundred twenty pelts per trapper. (Wyeth. p. 111)
    None of these calculations take into consideration how many hides were
traded for with Indians.  Also not considered is how many pelts may have been
stolen by Indians, lost while crossing a swollen river, spoiled by damage to
a hidden cache or in any other way taken but not making it to rendezvous for
whatever reason.  Any of these factors could effect the average take per
trapper.
            # HIDES             HIDES PER MAN
YEAR        LBS.    (1.625 LB/HIDE) # MEN       ALL TR.   1/3 C.K.  1/2 C.K.
1825          8829      5433         120           45         68
91
1826        12500       7692         100           77       115        154
1829a         4076      2508         175           14         21
29
1829b         4076      2508         120           21         31
42
1832 (Drips)  5100      3138         160           20         29
39
1832 (RMF)    5500      3385           55          62         91
121
Dougherty's 15 yr. Est. 25,000       200         125        167         250




References:
Chittenden, Hiram M. The American Fur Trade of the Far West. Vol 1. Academic
                Reprints, Stanford, CA, 1954.
Dale, Harrison. The Ashley-Smith Explorations and the Discovery of a Central
Route   to the Pacific. Arthur Clark Co. Glendale, CA. 1941
Ferris, Warren A. Life in the Rocky Mountains. Old West Publishing. Denver,
1983.
Gowans, Fred. Rocky Mountain Rendezvous. Gibbs-Smith, Layton, UT. 1985.
Harris, Eleanor T. and Morgan, Dale L. The Rocky Mountain Journals of William
    Marshall Anderson. Huntington Library, San Marino, CA. 1967.
Morgan, Dale. Jedediah Smith and the Opening of the West. Bobbs-Merril, NY.
1953.
_____ . The West of William Ashley. Old West Publishing, Denver. 1964.
Wishart, David J. The Fur Trade of the American West, 1807-1840. University
of  Nebraska Press, Lincoln. 1979.
Wyeth, Nathaniel J. Journal of Captain Nathaniel J. Wyeth's Expeditions to
the     Oregon Country, 1831-1836. Ye Galleon Press, Fairfield, WA. 1984.

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From: "Jody & Scott" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Trapper article
Date: 09 Feb 2002 19:52:07 -0600

Mssr. Hardee,

Please put me on the "list" as well.

Thank you in advance,
Scott C
[e-mail]


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver lure recipe
Date: 09 Feb 2002 21:02:43 -0500

Who wanted a beaver lure recipe?  Contact me offlist.  Mr. Enos, who is one of the most ardent and knowledgable trappers I have had the pleasure of meeting, told me how to make an easy bait that does not freeze and works GREAT.

-C.Kent

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From: Todd Glover <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fur Trade Houses - research
Date: 09 Feb 2002 19:02:33 -0700

Dick,

Have you got some fort building project in mind somewhere locally?
If so, there are a lot of folks who would be interested in helping.

Todd

On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 19:34:52 EST [e-mail] writes:
> With all the knowledge accumulated in the group, I am sure someone
> can help
> me with some research:
>
> I am trying to piece together a composit of what a fur trade post
> would be
> like - west of the Mississippi, American influence and strong
> Hudsons'Bay
> influence.  In size smaller than Fort Union, but larger than
> Astoria.
>
> Information I am trying to accumulate includes: what activities were
> housed
> within the palasades such as Factor's quarters, storehouse, trade
> house,
> staff quarters, clerk's accomodations, blacksmith shop, "utilities"
> shop,
> root cellar, etc. and assign floor plan dimensions to each.
>
> The composite structure that will come from this is to be correct in
> every
> way that building codes will allow, realizing the public must be
> "protected".
>  Similarly the materials inside and the activites will be correct to
> the
> period - not Hollywood and not contemporary "wannabes".
>
> Right now it is the architecture that is getting the attention to
> plan for
> budget.  I have as reference good details from Fort Ross, Fort
> Osage, Fort
> Michilimakinac, and Fort Ligoner (not geographically correct nor
> correct in
> purpose in all cases, but how the problems of structure and needs
> were met.
>
> This is a serious project and any and all input will be very much
> appreciated.
>
> Richard James
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784

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From: Todd Glover <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 18:52:30 -0700

Jim,

Always interested in your writing. I'd say post to everyone, but at least
shoot me a copy!

Todd


On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 00:38:49 EST [e-mail] writes:
> I once wrote on article on trapper productivity during the fur trade
> era.  If
> anyone is interested, I could post it ont the list.  Could do it as
> an
> attachment, just post it, or make it available to those who request
> it.
> Anybody have a preference? (does anyone want to see it?)
>
> Jim Hardee, AMM#1676
>
> ----------------------
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> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ARTICLE - Trapper Productivity
Date: 09 Feb 2002 19:07:58 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">Mr. Jim Hardee,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">     I think you are correct as I found a document that describes the failure of total dependence upon the 'tanglestick' technique, and alternatives.  It is obvious before the steel trap the chiseltooth was like the buffalo before the horse; eating and breeding without much fear of man.  Surely, the brigades and free trappers trapped what was missed or trap educated on later dates in different expeditions; collecting the the missed beaver.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">    This is from Washington Irving's "Adventures of Captain Bonneville", chapter 26: </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Practice, says Captain Bonneville, has given such a quickness of eye to the experienced trapper in all that relates to his pursuit, that he can detect the slightest sign of beaver, however wild; and although the lodge may be concealed by close thickets and overhanging willows, he can generally, at a single glance, make an accurate guess at the number of its inmates. He now goes to work to set his trap; planting it upon the shore, in some chosen place, two or three inches below the surface of the water, and secures it by a chain to a pole set deep in the mud. A small twig is then stripped of its bark, and one end is dipped in the "medicine," as the trappers term the peculiar bait which they employ. This end of the stick rises about four inches above the surface of the water, the other end is planted between the jaws of the trap. The beaver, possessing an acute sense of smell, is soon attracted by the odor of the bait. As he raises his nose toward it, his foot is caught in the trap. In his fright he throws a somerset into the deep water. The trap, being fastened to the pole, resists all his efforts to <BLINK><FONT color=#ff0000>drag</FONT></BLINK><A name=HEREHEREHERE></A> it to the shore; the chain by which it is fastened defies his teeth; he struggles for a time, and at length sinks to the bottom and is drowned. <BR wp="br1"><BR wp="br2">
<P>Upon rocky bottoms, where it is not possible to plant the pole, it is thrown into the stream. The beaver, when entrapped, often gets fastened by the chain to sunken logs or floating timber; if he gets to shore, he is entangled in the thickets of brook willows. In such cases, however, it costs the trapper diligent search, and sometimes a bout at swimming, before he finds his game. <BR wp="br1"><BR wp="br2">
<P>Occasionally it happens that several members of a beaver family are trapped in succession. The survivors then become extremely shy, and can scarcely be "brought to medicine," to use the trapper's phrase for "taking the bait." In such case, the trapper gives up the use of the bait, and conceals his traps in the usual paths and crossing places of the household. The beaver now being completely "up to trap," approaches them cautiously, and springs them ingeniously with a stick. At other times, he turns the traps bottom upwards, by the same means, and occasionally even <BLINK><FONT color=#ff0000>drag</FONT></BLINK>s them to the barrier and conceals them in the mud. The trapper now gives up the contest of ingenuity, and shouldering his traps, marches off, admitting that he is not yet "up to beaver." </P>
<P><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">    Evidently this could be another avenue where the float stick could have been used.  As from Bonneville's account, there were a lot of traps drug off and extensive searches if one did not flag them in some manner.  Of course, due to Indians, markers of anything too obvious would only invite stealing trapped beaver.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">You guys never would have guessed I was a Tom-boy as a child would you?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Sue Raven</FONT><BR wp="br1"><BR wp="br2"></P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:trapping and other stuff ! (baits)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 22:48:09 -0500

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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thanks for your input sue---

hawk--

On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 16:41:34 -0800 "SUE RAVEN"
<[e-mail]> writes:



>From: [e-mail]
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List:trapping and other stuff ! (baits)
>Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 15:04:45 -0500
>
>sue---
>I had to trap several areas in the ozarks that there was no way to drive

>a stake in the creek bottom or the lake bottom and what i normally did
>was tie a drag rock to the chain and place it out into the water and i
>would tie some light cord on to the rock---when the beaver would get
>cought they have a tendency to go to deep water and when they do they
>drag the rock into deeper water and thus drownd then-- when i come by
the
>set and the trap is gone i would grab the light rope and pull the beaver

>in which was attached to the trap and the drag rock I tried the tangle
>method a few times but didnt have much success with it in the area i was

>trapping---
     My brother Eric told me years ago about when he hunted and ran traps
in the Blue river(eastern Arizona-south of Alpine), of how he made a
simular set.  He told me of a non-target racoon that came into his set.
The rock he had xmas wrapped with double wire was setting on a ledge
under water.  The racoon did not pull the heavy rock in the water.
Evidently Rocky knew of his fate if he swam for it.  Eric said it was
sure funny seeing this racoon rock and wobble that rock as he approached.
 I was so mad at him because he didn't bring it home alive and call me.
He said you can't domesticate grown wild animals that easy.  He said the
pull out problem was so bad on coons that he usually drowed them if near
water.  He said he caugh ducks, muskrat, and racoons many times on beaver
sets.  This method makes good sense for a trapper on limited technology.
Besides, I do not know if a beaver would chew the rope off a rock; but
they did have wire a Fort Union prior to 1840.
       I'll e-mail Eric and see if he will share his formulae for making
beaver lure or medicine as ye mountaineers say.
I'm really jealous of you guys having all the fun,

Sur Raven



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"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>thanks for your input sue---</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>hawk--</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 16:41:34 -0800 "SUE RAVEN" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</=
A>>=20
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid">
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>From: [e-mail]=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]=20
  <DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List:trapping and other stuff ! (baits)=
=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 15:04:45 -0500=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>sue---=20
  <DIV></DIV>>I had to trap several areas in the ozarks that there was =
no way=20
  to drive=20
  <DIV></DIV>>a stake in the creek bottom or the lake bottom and what i=
=20
  normally did=20
  <DIV></DIV>>was tie a drag rock to the chain and place it out into the=
=20
  water and i=20
  <DIV></DIV>>would tie some light cord on to the rock---when the beaver=
=20
  would get=20
  <DIV></DIV>>cought they have a tendency to go to deep water and when =
they=20
  do they=20
  <DIV></DIV>>drag the rock into deeper water and thus drownd then-- =
when i=20
  come by the=20
  <DIV></DIV>>set and the trap is gone i would grab the light rope and =
pull=20
  the beaver=20
  <DIV></DIV>>in which was attached to the trap and the drag rock I =
tried the=20
  tangle=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>>method a few times but didnt have much success with it in the area=
 i=20
  was </P>
  <P>>trapping---</P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">     My=
=20
  brother Eric told me years ago about when he hunted and ran traps in the =
Blue=20
  river(eastern Arizona-south of Alpine), of how he made a simular set.&=
nbsp; He=20
  told me of a non-target racoon that came into his set.  The rock he =
had=20
  xmas wrapped with double wire was setting on a ledge under water.  =
The=20
  racoon did not pull the heavy rock in the water.  Evidently Rocky =
knew of=20
  his fate if he swam for it.  Eric said it was sure funny seeing this=
=20
  racoon rock and wobble that rock as he approached.  I was so =
mad at=20
  him because he didn't bring it home alive and call me.  He said=
 you=20
  can't domesticate grown wild animals that easy.  He said the pull =
out=20
  problem was so bad on coons that he usually drowed them if near water.&=
nbsp;=20
  He said he caugh ducks, muskrat, and racoons many times on beaver sets.&=
nbsp;=20
  This method makes good sense for a trapper on limited technology. =20
  Besides, I do not know if a beaver would chew the rope off a rock; but =
they=20
  did have wire a Fort Union prior to 1840.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">       I'll=
 e-mail=20
  Eric and see if he will share his formulae for making beaver lure or =
medicine=20
  as ye mountaineers say.</FONT>  </P>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">I'm really jealous of you=
 guys=20
  having all the fun,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Sur Raven</FONT></DIV></DIV><BR clear=
=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <A=20
  href=3D"http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp">Click=20
  Here</A><BR>---------------------- hist_text list info:=20
  http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html=20
  <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>"HAWK"<BR>Michael Pierce   "=
Home of=20
the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the Arkansas Underhammers"<BR>=
854=20
Glenfield Dr<BR>Palm Harbor,   Florida   =20
34684           &=
nbsp;=20
Phone: [phone]<BR>e-mail: [e-mail]   web=20
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce<BR></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 09 Feb 2002 23:29:36 EST

Sometime its all in where you are at and what the conditions are.
I'm in Missouri and only trapping in small streams, mud-bottomed
lakes, etc.    You go with what you have the most susccess with.
Or the most access to.   I.E.  the large rivers here (Missouri,
Mississippi) have beavers, but getting access to the land areas
to trap them is a problem, as well as finding the time to
cover vast miles of river.   It's like they say.........You can
read it in a book, but until you've done it, you've not done it!
Love using conibears.    As you can tell by my handle....Long
story.

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
[e-mail]

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ARTICLE - Trapper Productivity
Date: 09 Feb 2002 23:34:49 EST


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In a message dated 2/9/02 7:42:22 PM Central Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:


> Here is the article in its entirety.  It was published in The Trapline, vol.
>
> 3, #3, Spring 2000.  I hope you find it helpful.
>

Thanks much.
Larry In MS

--part1_14a.8a6a7ec.29975269_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/9/02 7:42:22 PM Central Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Here is the article in its entirety.  It was published in The Trapline, vol. <BR>
3, #3, Spring 2000.  I hope you find it helpful.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Thanks much.<BR>
Larry In MS</FONT></HTML>

--part1_14a.8a6a7ec.29975269_boundary--

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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 10 Feb 2002 01:14:37 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0175_01C1B1D0.4E984340
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Sue,
    I was not able to open the page as I got an error message saying =
there is a problem with the URL.  Perhaps you could re-check your source =
and get a corrected URL, and I would be happy to give you my 2 cents =
worth. =20
Sincerely,
John Enos
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]=20
"The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished =
liberty,=20
is that it was lost because it's possessors failed to stretch forth a =
saving hand,=20
while yet there was time."    -- Justice George Sutherland, 1938=20

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: SUE RAVEN=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 7:49 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!






  Mr. John Enos,

  I would like your critique of the quality of the info on this site on =
beavers.

        =20
        http://deal.unl.edu/icwdm/handbook/handbook/allPDF/ro_b1.pdf=20
      =20

  Sue Raven


-----
  MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click =
Here
  ---------------------- hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4913.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Hi Sue,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>    I was not able to open the page =
as I got an=20
error message saying there is a problem with the URL.  Perhaps you =
could=20
re-check your source and get a corrected URL, and I would be happy to =
give you=20
my 2 cents worth.  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Sincerely,<BR>John Enos<BR>TrapRJohn<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> <BR>"The =
saddest=20
epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty, <BR>is that =
it was=20
lost because it's possessors failed to stretch forth a saving hand, =
<BR>while=20
yet there was time."    -- Justice George Sutherland, =
1938=20
<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">SUE RAVEN</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 09, =
2002 7:49=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Beaver =
on the=20
  Brain!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>Mr. John Enos,</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>I would like your critique of the quality of the info on this =
site on=20
  beavers.</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>
  <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D3 width=3D"100%" =
bgColor=3D#93bee2 border=3D0=20
  nowrap>
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD vAlign=3Dtop noWrap>
      <TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  <TABLE class=3DWf cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D3 width=3D"100%" =
align=3Dcenter border=3D0=20
  nowrap>
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD><TT><A target=3D_blank=20
        =
href=3D"http://deal.unl.edu/icwdm/handbook/handbook/allPDF/ro_b1.pdf"><FO=
NT=20
        =
color=3D#000099>http://deal.unl.edu/icwdm/handbook/handbook/allPDF/ro_b1.=
pdf</FONT></A>=20
        <BR></TT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>Sue Raven</DIV><BR =
clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <A=20
  href=3D"http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp">Click=20
  Here</A><BR>---------------------- hist_text list info: <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xm=
ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</A></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fur Trade Houses - research
Date: 10 Feb 2002 01:43:15 EST


In a message dated 2/9/02 7:13:36 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Have you got some fort building project in mind somewhere locally?>>

Yes.  Not for publication at the moment but it will be good.  Do you have any
of the source material I am seeking???
Dick

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerry & Barbara Zaslow" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Take me off the list
Date: 10 Feb 2002 01:16:44 -0800

Hi Dean,

I know this is not the correct way to do this but unfortunately I don't have
the time.  I will be out of town for the next 2 weeks and my wife and kids
don't have the time to delete the 400 or so e-mails I get from the list
every week.  Please take me off until further notice.

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,

Jerry Zaslow #1488



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From: "T Venden" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ARTICLE - Trapper Productivity
Date: 10 Feb 2002 09:15:49 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C1B213.87BB3400
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Larry,
You forgot to put the article with your note.
Terry
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  To: hist_text=20
  Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 10:34 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ARTICLE - Trapper Productivity


  In a message dated 2/9/02 7:42:22 PM Central Standard Time, =
[e-mail] writes:



    Here is the article in its entirety.  It was published in The =
Trapline, vol.=20
    3, #3, Spring 2000.  I hope you find it helpful.



  Thanks much.
  Larry In MS=20

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C1B213.87BB3400
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Larry,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You forgot to put the article with your =

note.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Terry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dhist_text=20
  href=3D"mailto:hist_text">hist_text</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 09, =
2002 10:34=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: =
ARTICLE -=20
  Trapper Productivity</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>In a =
message dated=20
  2/9/02 7:42:22 PM Central Standard Time, <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> =
writes:<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">Here is the article in its entirety.  It was =
published in=20
    The Trapline, vol. <BR>3, #3, Spring 2000.  I hope you find it=20
    helpful.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Thanks much.<BR>Larry In MS</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C1B213.87BB3400--


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ARTICLE - Trapper Productivity
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:54:13 EST


--part1_178.35c487d.2997ffb5_boundary
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In a message dated 2/10/02 9:18:29 AM Central Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:


> Larry,
> You forgot to put the article with your note.
> Terry
>

Actually, I was just thanking Mr. Hardee, who had posted the article to the
list. ;-)
Larry in MS

--part1_178.35c487d.2997ffb5_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/10/02 9:18:29 AM Central Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Larry,</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">You forgot to put the article with your note.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Terry</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Actually, I was just thanking Mr. Hardee, who had posted the article to the list. ;-)<BR>
Larry in MS</FONT></HTML>

--part1_178.35c487d.2997ffb5_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fur Trade Houses - research
Date: 10 Feb 2002 10:46:04 -0700



On Sunday, March 30, 1941, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>In a message dated 2/9/02 7:13:36 PM, [e-mail]
>writes:
>
><<Have you got some fort building project in mind somewhere
>locally?>>
>
>Yes.  Not for publication at the moment but it will be good.  Do you have =
any=20
>of the source material I am seeking???
>Dick
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info:
>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: [e-mail] (Jon Marinetti)
Subject: MtMan-List: Cougar Explosion in California
Date: 10 Feb 2002 17:31:26 -0500 (EST)

Amen, Hardtack (Randy Bublitz) and Trapper John (Enos).  Thanks for
posting that very insightful information.  The hunters, trappers and
shooters in that state are up against unbelievable resistance.  You
brothers in Cal must feel at times like living in the country's largest
outdoor insane asylum.  God help us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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From: "p monty" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe?
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:45:29 -0700



Hello All,

Does any one have a good period recipe for hardtack?

Thanks,
Paul Montgomery

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe? ARCHIVES!!!!!
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:00:45 -0500

,
>
>Does any one have a good period recipe for hardtack?


God question, but for the sanity of all who have experienced this line of questioning MANY times, please check the archives.  There are TONS of info. there if you jsut look.  Good recipes and good advice.  Good question...just that it has an answer that is easy to find and gives you quicker information.

-C.Kent

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe?
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:25:54 -0500

Randy???
D

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:45 PM


>
>
> Hello All,
>
> Does any one have a good period recipe for hardtack?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul Montgomery
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:49:31 -0800




>From: <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
>Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 01:14:37 -0500
>
>Hi Sue,
>     I was not able to open the page as I got an error message saying there
>is a problem with the URL.  Perhaps you could re-check your source and get
>a corrected URL, and I would be happy to give you my 2 cents worth.
>Sincerely,
>John Enos
>TrapRJohn
>[e-mail]
>"The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty,
>is that it was lost because it's possessors failed to stretch forth a
>saving hand,
>while yet there was time."    -- Justice George Sutherland, 1938
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: SUE RAVEN
>   To: [e-mail]
>   Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 7:49 PM
>   Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Mr. John Enos,
>
>   I would like your critique of the quality of the info on this site on
>beavers.
>
>
>         http://deal.unl.edu/icwdm/handbook/handbook/allPDF/ro_b1.pdf
>
>
>   Sue Raven
>
>
     Mr. John Enos,
         I see what you mean.  My first click failed on this site.  However
my 2nd click got me right in.  try it again and if it fails I'll send as
much data as possible to get you there.

Sue Raven

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe?
Date: 10 Feb 2002 18:55:56 -0800


Hardtack Recipe:
From the New Ulm Minnesota Militia 1863

3 Cups Milk (raw, or buttermilk)
8 Cups Flour (3 whole wheat, 5 unbleached)
2 tablespoons Sugar (brown, or raw)
1 tablespoon salt
4 Tablespoons Lard (vegetable shortening)
   Mix well and roll out 1/4" thick. Cut into 3" x 3" squares.  Punch holes
into a grid pattern with a wooden spoon Handle, think saltine crackers.
Bake at 400 dg. for 35 minutes (to taste).  The  (    )   are mine.  This
recipe was given to me by my Garndma, her Dad served in this Militia Unit,
which was formed after the Sioux uprising of 1862 in the Minnesota
Territory.I've had good luck with it.  All dogs and some people like it.
hardtack

> [Original Message]
> From: p monty <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
 > Date: 2/10/02 3:45:29 PM
> Subject: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe?
>
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> Does any one have a good period recipe for hardtack?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul Montgomery
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


--- Randal Bublitz
--- [e-mail]
we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
 we are Bo


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: BoB Trappin' Article
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:57:23 -0700

Hello the List,

For those that are still interested in the beaver trappin' deal, the Book of
Buckskinning #8 has a good article.  It's on page 70, and is written by
Shawn Webster, check it out, you'll like it.

Allen


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From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe?
Date: 10 Feb 2002 20:38:50 -0700

I've found that horses really groove on the taste of hard tack to.  that
recipe sounds like it might taste better than the one I use. In which, has
no shortening or grease or milk, in it.  sounds good!
Tom
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:55 PM


>
> Hardtack Recipe:
> From the New Ulm Minnesota Militia 1863
>
> 3 Cups Milk (raw, or buttermilk)
> 8 Cups Flour (3 whole wheat, 5 unbleached)
> 2 tablespoons Sugar (brown, or raw)
> 1 tablespoon salt
> 4 Tablespoons Lard (vegetable shortening)
>    Mix well and roll out 1/4" thick. Cut into 3" x 3" squares.  Punch
holes
> into a grid pattern with a wooden spoon Handle, think saltine crackers.
> Bake at 400 dg. for 35 minutes (to taste).  The  (    )   are mine.  This
> recipe was given to me by my Garndma, her Dad served in this Militia Unit,
> which was formed after the Sioux uprising of 1862 in the Minnesota
> Territory.I've had good luck with it.  All dogs and some people like it.
> hardtack
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: p monty <[e-mail]>
> > To: <[e-mail]>
>  > Date: 2/10/02 3:45:29 PM
> > Subject: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Does any one have a good period recipe for hardtack?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul Montgomery
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> --- Randal Bublitz
> --- [e-mail]
> we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
>  we are Bo
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe?
Date: 10 Feb 2002 20:38:50 -0700

I've found that horses really groove on the taste of hard tack to.  that
recipe sounds like it might taste better than the one I use. In which, has
no shortening or grease or milk, in it.  sounds good!
Tom
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:55 PM


>
> Hardtack Recipe:
> From the New Ulm Minnesota Militia 1863
>
> 3 Cups Milk (raw, or buttermilk)
> 8 Cups Flour (3 whole wheat, 5 unbleached)
> 2 tablespoons Sugar (brown, or raw)
> 1 tablespoon salt
> 4 Tablespoons Lard (vegetable shortening)
>    Mix well and roll out 1/4" thick. Cut into 3" x 3" squares.  Punch
holes
> into a grid pattern with a wooden spoon Handle, think saltine crackers.
> Bake at 400 dg. for 35 minutes (to taste).  The  (    )   are mine.  This
> recipe was given to me by my Garndma, her Dad served in this Militia Unit,
> which was formed after the Sioux uprising of 1862 in the Minnesota
> Territory.I've had good luck with it.  All dogs and some people like it.
> hardtack
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: p monty <[e-mail]>
> > To: <[e-mail]>
>  > Date: 2/10/02 3:45:29 PM
> > Subject: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello All,
> >
> > Does any one have a good period recipe for hardtack?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul Montgomery
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> --- Randal Bublitz
> --- [e-mail]
> we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
>  we are Bo
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hardtack recipe?
Date: 10 Feb 2002 20:27:33 -0800

Tom,  This recipe came from a bunch of German Immigrant Farmers in
Minnesota.  Farm folks know how to eat <g>.    hardtack


> I've found that horses really groove on the taste of hard tack to.  that
> recipe sounds like it might taste better than the one I use. In which, has
> no shortening or grease or milk, in it.  sounds good!
> Tom
>
>
> >
> > Hardtack Recipe:
> > From the New Ulm Minnesota Militia 1863
> >
> > 3 Cups Milk (raw, or buttermilk)
> > 8 Cups Flour (3 whole wheat, 5 unbleached)
> > 2 tablespoons Sugar (brown, or raw)
> > 1 tablespoon salt
> > 4 Tablespoons Lard (vegetable shortening)
> >    Mix well and roll out 1/4" thick. Cut into 3" x 3" squares.  Punch
> holes
> > into a grid pattern with a wooden spoon Handle, think saltine crackers.
> > Bake at 400 dg. for 35 minutes (to taste).  The  (    )   are mine.
This
> > recipe was given to me by my Garndma, her Dad served in this Militia
Unit,
> > which was formed after the Sioux uprising of 1862 in the Minnesota
> > Territory.I've had good luck with it.  All dogs and some people like it.
> > hardtack
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > Does any one have a good period recipe for hardtack?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul Montgomery

--- Randal Bublitz
--- [e-mail]
we have NOT inherited the E


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Winter Camp
Date: 10 Feb 2002 23:44:17 EST

Klahowya Boys,

I'm just back from a neat little Winter Camp with a few of the Columbia Dept.
boys, up around the Santiam Pass, in the high Cascades. Can't say when I've
been in such deep SNOW! I'm thinking it had to be at least 8' feet of powder,
and it took all day for George and Dale to break/pack a trail into camp, and
then to near dark trying to find and dig out the cave/camp.
I had it easy coming in Saturday morning until I slid off the trail on a down
hill, and launched into the deep stuff..... had to actually tunnel out from
all the gear I was packing to get back on the trail. Ever try to get out of
yer snowshoe bindings by feel alone, buried to your arm pits? Puts new
meaning into having fun!
Anyway ... gathered up all my gear and made it into camp with only one more
wreck. Next time I'll have toboggan to haul my stuff...think I was a bit top
heavy.
The camp sure was sumtin! George and that group put a lot of effort into
building a shelter of logs on three sides and a roof, up against a volcanic
out cropping. With so much snow, they had to dig down about five feet to find
the entrance, then fight their the way around back and up top to tunnel down
for the smoke hole. Once you got inside, it was the neatest little
shelter/cave a mountaineer could want. Enough room for 6 people at least, and
more if ya moved all the cut and dry wood outside.
With a piece of canvas covering the entrance, and a good hot little fire
going, it was shirt sleeve comfortable inside. We didn't spend much time
exploring because it was just to hard to get around. By night fall, I hurt in
places I didn't know I had ... need to spend more time on snowshoes....<G>
We all ate buffalo for dinner, rice, jerk, parched corn, hot chocolate, and
of course a jug of apple pie that somehow survived all my crashes... I was
new blood for the Columbia Dept. gang, so all my yarns didn't draw too many
yawns... George, Joseph, and Dale (and Margaret and Elijah too!) made great
conversation and we spent a very pleasant evening. I think it was late when
we all finally turned in....
We all kinda cooked sumtin for breakfast... I had oatmeal porridge with
raisins, looked like Dale had some chicken....Joseph was working on some
buffalo.. plenty of food left as we broke camp.
This time I put my bed roll and some gear on Joe's toboggan and I acted as a
break on the way out..easy going. George had over a hundred pounds of gear,
and Elijah on his toboggan, and once out on the main trail, they took off on
the down hill run....hootin and hollerin all the way down....<G> A good pay
back for all the work they did coming in.
As I packed up my stuff, I'm thinking I need to spend more than a couple days
in this country at this time of the year....a great camp.

Here's a couple jpg's of (l-r) George, Joseph, Dale... in the other, the hole
to the lower left is the way in...

Magpie

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/gjd.jpg">gjd.jpg</A>
http://members.aol.com/swcushing/gjd.jpg

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/wc.jpg">wc.jpg</A>
http://members.aol.com/swcushing/wc.jpg

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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain! My Answer.
Date: 10 Feb 2002 23:56:46 -0500

Greetings Sue and list,
    I was not able to access the URL you first sent, however the second U=
RL
allowed me to download what appears to be a small book, with Real Downloa=
d.
I have only skimmed through it up to now, and will need some time to read=
 it
all.  On the face of it, from what I did read and scan, so far, it looks
pretty accurate to me (keeping in mind that so far I have only skimmed
through it.  Here is a passage that caught my eye that I thought was real
good info, as I have been saying the same thing for years, the better you
know your target critter, and the more attention to detail you pay with t=
rap
adjustment - placement, etc. the better job you will be able to do.  Here=
 is
a paragraph from the text in column form.
***************************************
Trapping
The use of traps in most situations
where beavers are causing damage is
the most effective, practical, and environmentally
safe method of control.
The effectiveness of any type of trap
for beaver control is dependent on the
trapper=92s knowledge of beaver habits,
food preferences, ability to read beaver
signs, use of the proper trap, and trap
placement. A good trapper with a
dozen traps can generally trap all the
beavers in a given pond (behind one
dam) in a week of trap nights. Obviously
in a large watershed with several
colonies, more trapping effort will be
required. Most anyone with trapping
experience and some outdoor =93savvy=94
can become an effective beaver trapper
in a short time. In an area where beavers
are common and have not been
exposed to trapping, anyone experienced
in trapping can expect good success.
Additional expertise and
improved techniques will be gained
through experience.
*******************************
I think this is right on point, and it's why I teach Trapper Education, s=
o
new trappers can go out and hopefully not make the same mistakes I did wh=
en
there was no one to show me!!!  I have often said, "If I have to be stran=
ded
in the woods and could choose between a couple of traps and a firearm, gi=
ve
me the traps.  I will be sure of eating more regularly than with a
firearm!!!  When I read the whole thing (probably in a few days) I will
e-mail you my thoughts directly so as not to clutter up the list with
continuing this subject, unless the list wants to hear the rest, after I
read it.  Also the site has nice looking drawings!!!  More to follow when=
 I
have read it all!!!  Thanks for the opportunity and info Sue.
Sincerely,
John Enos
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]
"The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty,
is that it was lost because it's possessors failed to stretch forth a sav=
ing
hand,
while yet there was time."    -- Justice George Sutherland, 1938

***************************************************************
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: SUE RAVEN
> >   To: [e-mail]
> >   Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 7:49 PM
> >   Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver on the Brain!
> >
> >   Mr. John Enos,
> >
> >   I would like your critique of the quality of the info on this site =
on
> >beavers.
> >
> >         http://deal.unl.edu/icwdm/handbook/handbook/allPDF/ro_b1.pdf
> >
> >   Sue Raven
> >
> > ***********************************************************
>      Mr. John Enos,
>          I see what you mean.  My first click failed on this site.
However
> my 2nd click got me right in.  try it again and if it fails I'll send a=
s
> much data as possible to get you there.
>
> Sue Raven
**************************************************************


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cougar Explosion in California
Date: 11 Feb 2002 10:05:56 EST

Greetings the Group:
    I live in California.  Many folks might live their whole lives without
ever seeing Mr. Longtail.  Since 1993, excepting last year, I have seen more
Mt. Lions than legal bucks.  I have heard them at night chasing deer outside
my bedroom window, running them into barbed wire fences, then the ensuing
woman-like scream sentinels the death to follow.  This was in the early
'90's.  I got the idea to sit high atop a building one night with a Cabellas
deer call and fawn bleat.  I remained motionless, sat upon the floor of an
upstairs dwelling with the window open. I called for about 40 minutes without
peeking outside.  It wasn't long until I heard rustling outside. I turned on
a flashlight to see a set of cat eyes spaced  5 inches apart-my neck hackles
stood straight up! I slid down the wall and sat quietly on the floor for a
few minutes. He was merely some 40 feet from the house.
     Another time I pulled off the side of old highway 101,  one night to
relieve myself. I stepped from the car, walked to the rear bumper, caught the
essence of motion behind me, turned to see Mr. Longtail in the moonlight some
30+ feet from me. Needless to say, I sauntered back to the drivers door then
drove another 5 miles further to complete the task.
      My first sighting of a Puma was early on, it was one of the variants a
large black one during a mid-summer day. I watched it as it crossed an open
field behind my house.
      A couple of years ago, there was one hit by a car in downtown Santa
Rosa, about 15 miles from my home.  Some years back, an acquaintance of my
wife was mauled to death by one.
     I've had chance encounters with them while deer hunting, a brief glimpse
 across a river and as follows: I recall one year my hunting partner was
stalked by one,  I picked up on what was going on and began stalking the cat
that was stalking my best friend.  Mr. Longtail became suspicious after some
minutes of this and took the high road.
     My very first encounter with Mr. Longtail was when I was about 16 or 17
years old.  I used to take the family car and go off solo camping in  remote
areas.  This one time was a deer hunting trip in the Northern Sierras. I
climbed up this one snow capped peak near the Village of Viola. Upon
approaching the top I encountered a set of cat tracks in the snow. I circled
around the knoll to encounter my own tracks again when I noticed that there
were a large set of cat tracks following my old tracks from where I started.
At age 16 I didn't want to mess with shooting at any Mt. Lion. Nor did I
enjoy the idea of being stalked and possibly surprise attacked.  This was a
long time before they were protected in this state.
     In 1995 my wife and I were surrounded by 3 of them for the better part
of 2  1/2 days.  This was the only occurrence in all the years that they were
verbal. The resonance of the three cats in this canyon was awesome.  They
sound much like a housecat but about an octave lower and as if they were
using a megaphone.  We contemplated that one was in heat and the others were
males.  They didn't seem all that interested in us. Though we did have a
peculiar interaction with the female. The female did yield eye contact .  The
eye contact from one of these big cats has a mysterious way of freezing you,
you forget about time and self...its most paralyzing.  Its on a very primal
level, that unless you have experienced it, its indescribable.
     I have seen them on the premises where I work in broad daylight.
     These are a few of the  encounters / sightings I have had with the big
cats.
      Well, its getting late and I have a date with a local steelhead
stream......
      Be safe in the California West,  The Best to All,  Tom




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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Brief Intro
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:39:04 -0500

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New to list
Name Sam
Been in/out muzzleloading for  little over
40 yrs. {god has it been that long?}
I might know a few of you from the ole days
and Ive met a few from the "other" list
I hope its easier to post here than other list
Thinking of building another rifle, or commission
one...Researching some info first
Avid hunter.. Go alot of western state shoots
Love canoe trips from days to weeks
nuff said
Sam

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>New to list</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Name Sam</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Been in/out muzzleloading for  =
little=20
over</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>40 yrs. {god has it been that =
long?}</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I might know a few of you from the ole=20
days</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and Ive met a few from the "other"=20
list</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope its easier to post here than =
other=20
list</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thinking of building another rifle, or=20
commission</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>one...Researching some info =
first</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Avid hunter.. Go alot of western state=20
shoots</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Love canoe trips from days to =
weeks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nuff said</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brief Intro
Date: 11 Feb 2002 09:05:03 -0800

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Welcome Sam. Nuff said.

Capt. Lahti'
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: WindWalker=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 6:39 AM
  Subject: MtMan-List: Brief Intro


  New to list
  Name Sam
  Been in/out muzzleloading for  little over
  40 yrs. {god has it been that long?}
  I might know a few of you from the ole days
  and Ive met a few from the "other" list
  I hope its easier to post here than other list
  Thinking of building another rifle, or commission
  one...Researching some info first
  Avid hunter.. Go alot of western state shoots
  Love canoe trips from days to weeks
  nuff said
  Sam

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Welcome Sam. Nuff said.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">WindWalker</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 18, 2002 =
6:39=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Brief =
Intro</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>New to list</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Name Sam</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Been in/out muzzleloading for  =
little=20
  over</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>40 yrs. {god has it been that =
long?}</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I might know a few of you from the =
ole=20
  days</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and Ive met a few from the "other"=20
  list</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope its easier to post here than =
other=20
  list</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thinking of building another rifle, =
or=20
  commission</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>one...Researching some info =
first</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Avid hunter.. Go alot of western =
state=20
  shoots</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Love canoe trips from days to =
weeks</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nuff said</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Ned, you are missed!!!
Date: 11 Feb 2002 12:13:31 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Ned,</DIV>
<DIV>      After the silence it seems the list has taken on a new perspective.  The emotionally charged quarreling seems to have vanished.  I would like to think it was partly because they had encountered your spirit and maybe realized that all were somewhat guilty from time to time; even though few put it in print.</DIV>
<DIV>      If you look in the past week we had a delightful debate on trapping beaver.  Gawd, I'm jealous of you men getting to have all the fun.   Hope to see your poats soon.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your eternal pal,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue Raven</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 11 Feb 2002 12:27:25 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: BoB Trappin' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:57:23 -0700
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Hello the List,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>For those that are still interested in the beaver trappin' deal, the Book of
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Buckskinning #8 has a good article. It's on page 70, and is written by
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Shawn Webster, check it out, you'll like it.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Allen
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">Allen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">      Eric, my brother said he read this about a year ago.  Having such an interest in trapping, even though the bounty exceeded the fur market.  He claims the data is pretty good yet he doubts if any large adults could be taken by these methods.  He also mentioned that the author of the article was very honest in admitting he was no expert; which adds to the authors credibility.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">      As I'm not a rendezvou-er, so to speak, and do not have this collection of books or access to them, it is hard for me to discuss the articles.  Could you list the documents sources and authors where I may evaluate the article?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Trying not to create a flame,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Sue Raven</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">    </FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: 1796 Cookbook
Date: 11 Feb 2002 12:53:45 -0800 (PST)

This add is in the Northeast Oklahoma Electric
Cooperative News paper "Oklahoma Living"
 Their site is:
http://www.trescocorp.com
 American Cookery: recipies for "Indian Slapjacks" and
"Johnny Cake". This is a reprint by a Ohio
Publisher.$19.95 + $3.98 p/h or $30.00 for 2 with
postage paid.
American Cookbook
Special Offer AC3915
718- 12th Street
N.W.,Box24500
Canton, OH
44701
 I don't know much more but do have the ad and if you
want more info, Hit me off list.

=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

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From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 11 Feb 2002 20:36:37 -0600

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This has been an interesting exchange, and, as Sue has noted, the tone =
has been positive which I applaud.
=20
As to this most recent post about the article in Book of Buckskinning =
VIII, Sue, is your brother saying, when he acknowledges that the "data =
is pretty good" but further notes that he doubts if any large adults =
could be taken by these methods," that if the fur trappers, during the =
rocky mountain fur trapping era, had used traps like the reproduction =
traps described in the article, and the general methods of trapping =
discussed in the article, that they could not (or did not, as a general =
rule) take large adult beaver?

I want to fully understand his position as regards the methods cited in =
the article, as I gather that he has a great deal of hands-on experience =
actually trapping beaver over the years.

Since the article has been questioned to this degree, I am sending a =
copy of it to a friend from Kansas, who, over the course of some years =
of hard effort, has actually trapped several thousand beaver, including =
over 350 during a 3-1/2 week period several years ago, while trapping on =
the Arkansas River.  The documented effort was amazing both in terms of =
the amount of work (and very long hours) involved and the degree of =
success.  Even more so when he then drove to Dubois, Wyoming, where a =
very fine tannery is located, and proceeded to flesh (with the help of a =
friend from Texas), the entire lot.  I cannot image how long those days =
must have seened, or the degree of exhaustion involved.  It will be =
interesting to see his take on the article as a whole and the methods, =
etc. described in it.=20
=20
As I will be making his copy tomorrow, should you wish to have a copy to =
review, since I can make two copies about as easily as I can make one, =
please advise and I will send it to you immediately.

Regards,

Paul
  Allen,
        Eric, my brother said he read this about a year ago.  Having =
such an interest in trapping, even though the bounty exceeded the fur =
market.  He claims the data is pretty good yet he doubts if any large =
adults could be taken by these methods.  He also mentioned that the =
author of the article was very honest in admitting he was no expert; =
which adds to the authors credibility.
        As I'm not a rendezvou-er, so to speak, and do not have this =
collection of books or access to them, it is hard for me to discuss the =
articles.  Could you list the documents sources and authors where I may =
evaluate the article?
  =20
  Trying not to create a flame,
  Sue Raven
     =20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>This has been an interesting exchange, and, =
as Sue has=20
noted, the tone has been positive which I applaud.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>As to this most recent post about the =
article in Book=20
of Buckskinning VIII, Sue, is your brother saying, when he=20
acknowledges that the "data is pretty good" but further notes that he=20
doubts if any large adults could be taken by these methods," that=20
if the fur trappers, during the rocky mountain fur trapping =
era, had=20
used traps like the reproduction traps described in the article, and the =
general=20
methods of trapping discussed in the article, that they could not (or =
did not,=20
as a general rule) take large adult beaver?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>I want to fully understand his position as =
regards the=20
methods cited in the article, as I gather that he has a great deal of =
hands-on=20
experience actually trapping beaver over the =
years.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Since the article has been questioned to =
this degree,=20
I am sending a copy of it to a friend from Kansas, who, over the course =
of some=20
years of hard effort, has actually trapped several thousand beaver, =
including=20
over 350 during a 3-1/2 week period several years ago, while trapping on =
the=20
Arkansas River.  The documented effort was amazing both in terms of =
the=20
amount of work (and very long hours) involved and the degree=20
of success.  Even more so when he then drove to Dubois, =
Wyoming,=20
where a very fine tannery is located, and proceeded to flesh (with =
the help=20
of a friend from Texas), the entire lot.  I cannot image how long =
those=20
days must have seened, or the degree of exhaustion involved.  It =
will be=20
interesting to see his take on the article as a whole and the methods, =
etc.=20
described in it. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>As I will be making his copy =
tomorrow, should you=20
wish to have a copy to review, since </STRONG></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2><STRONG>I can=20
make two copies about as easily as I can make one, please advise =
and I will=20
send it to you immediately.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Regards,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Paul</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">Allen,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">      Eric, =
my=20
  brother said he read this about a year ago.  Having such an =
interest in=20
  trapping, even though the bounty exceeded the fur market.  He =
claims the=20
  data is pretty good yet he doubts if any large adults could be taken =
by these=20
  methods.  He also mentioned that the author of the article was =
very=20
  honest in admitting he was no expert; which adds to the authors=20
  credibility.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">      As =
I'm not a=20
  rendezvou-er, so to speak, and do not have this collection of books or =
access=20
  to them, it is hard for me to discuss the articles.  Could you =
list the=20
  documents sources and authors where I may evaluate the =
article?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Trying not to create a =
flame,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Sue Raven</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Lucida Handwriting, Cursive">    =
</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <A=20
  href=3D"http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp">Click=20
  Here</A><BR>---------------------- hist_text list info:=20
  http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html =
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From: David Usner <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 11 Feb 2002 22:13:57 -0500

How can I get a copy?

David Usner
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Gretchen Ormond
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 9:39 AM





> At 12:38 AM 02/09/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >I once wrote on article on trapper productivity during the fur trade era.
If
> >anyone is interested, I could post it ont the list.  Could do it as an
> >attachment, just post it, or make it available to those who request it.
> >Anybody have a preference? (does anyone want to see it?)
> >
> >Jim Hardee, AMM#1676

Please make it available.  I have concidered doing a little number crunching
myself and I am sure you used the same (Ogdens)  or better sources than I
would.

Mind Yer Hair
Wynn Ormond



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From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Dept of Interior websites
Date: 12 Feb 2002 09:55:05 -0600

Recent difficulty in getting into Department of the Interior websites has
been explained.  The latest information I have (which may be a bit old) is
that apparently, a politically motivated computer hacker succeeded in
damaging some Interior websites, particularly those of the National Park
Service.  In response, a Federal judge has ordered a lock down on all (or
most) Interior Department sites until the damage can be corrected and steps
taken to help secure all Interior Department sites.  Investigators aren't
saying much but the inference is that the hackers have either been
identified or they are in custody.  It is very likely that the hackers were
acting independently.  There is no evidence that they were 9/11 motivated,
nor are they linked to any terrorist organization.  Hopefully, the sites
will be up and running again soon.

Don't shoot the message bearer.  This is only what I've been told.

Cheers,
HBC

***********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442, ext 255   FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu
***Living History . . . Because It's There***



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From: "Spivey, Michael" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Dept of Interior websites
Date: 12 Feb 2002 08:35:08 -0800

Hi All,

The issue goes much deeper.  The interior and exterior access to the
Department of the Interior websites was curtailed by a Federal Judge but not
for the reason given below. Not only was the access curtailed but backup
tapes were seized.  There is a major investigation going on concerning
mishandling (large scale theft) of Indian trust funds by agencies within the
Federal Government DOI specificly.  the stories concerning this are archived
at various points on the web with NewsMax.com and WND.com having both
reported this issue.  Sierratimes.com also reported this story.

Thought you all would want to know.  Gives you a warm fuzzy doesn't it?

Mike Spivey
Ontario, CAL

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:55 AM
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail];
[e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]


Recent difficulty in getting into Department of the Interior websites has
been explained.  The latest information I have (which may be a bit old) is
that apparently, a politically motivated computer hacker succeeded in
damaging some Interior websites, particularly those of the National Park
Service.  In response, a Federal judge has ordered a lock down on all (or
most) Interior Department sites until the damage can be corrected and steps
taken to help secure all Interior Department sites.  Investigators aren't
saying much but the inference is that the hackers have either been
identified or they are in custody.  It is very likely that the hackers were
acting independently.  There is no evidence that they were 9/11 motivated,
nor are they linked to any terrorist organization.  Hopefully, the sites
will be up and running again soon.

Don't shoot the message bearer.  This is only what I've been told.

Cheers,
HBC

***********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442, ext 255   FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu
***Living History . . . Because It's There***



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From: "Ned Eddins" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ned, you are missed!!!
Date: 12 Feb 2002 09:50:13 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Sue,=20
I have followed a few of the trapping posts with great interest. Has =
anyone said where the re-built trading post or fort is to be located? =
From a historical standpoint, I wish it would be Fort Raymond (Fort =
Ramon, Manuel's Fort)at the junction of the Big Horn and the =
Yellowstone.

If you get the article that Allan Hall referred to other than over the =
list, please send me a copy.

Take Care,

Ned
[e-mail]
www.mountainsofstone.com
www.thefurtrapper.com

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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">Sue, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">I have followed a few of the trapping=20
posts with great interest. Has anyone said where the re-built =
trading post=20
or fort is to be located? From a historical standpoint, I wish =
it=20
would be Fort Raymond (Fort Ramon, Manuel's Fort)at the junction of =
the Big=20
Horn and the Yellowstone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">If you get the article that Allan Hall =
referred to=20
other than over the list, please send me a copy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">Take Care,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New">Ned<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.mountainsofstone.com">www.mountainsofstone.com</A><BR>=
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.thefurtrapper.com">www.thefurtrapper.com</A></FONT></D=
IV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "walter palmer" <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Feb 2002 12:42:18 -0500



does anyone know how to get creosote off my canvas tent ?
      [e-mail]

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ned, you are missed!!!
Date: 12 Feb 2002 10:04:11 -0800





>Sue,
>I have followed a few of the trapping posts with great interest. Has anyone
>said where the re-built trading post or fort is to be located? From a
>historical standpoint, I wish it would be Fort Raymond (Fort Ramon,
>Manuel's Fort)at the junction of the Big Horn and the Yellowstone.
>
Ned, as far as I know for some reason he wants it kept hush for the moment;
the location that is.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 12 Feb 2002 10:51:06 -0800




>From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:36:37 -0600
>
>
>As to this most recent post about the article in Book of Buckskinning VIII,
>Sue, is your brother saying, when he acknowledges that the "data is pretty
>good" but further notes that he doubts if any large adults could be taken
>by these methods," that if the fur trappers, during the rocky mountain fur
>trapping era, had used traps like the reproduction traps described in the
>article, and the general methods of trapping discussed in the article, that
>they could not (or did not, as a general rule) take large adult beaver?

Mr. Jones,
   Eric said the only flaws he found in the article were that he missed two
methods of trapping beaver from the old methods.

1.  There was a pole method that a trap chain was linked to.  Something
about the dead pole being stuck deep in the mud of the bottom of the stream
in 4-6 feet of water.  Or, he said the pole was tied at both ends to stakes.
  At the anchor stake the pole was tied at the bottom, and at the other end
near the bank in shallow water.  the pole had the knots on it where the
trapper trimmed the limbs off.  The limbs were aimed toward the water or
rather, into the deep water.  Eric says the beaver would jump for deep water
pulling the trap chain RING or TIED WIRE down the pole.  The knots stopped
the beaver from pulling the trap back up.  If you understand me, the small
end of the pole is aimed toward the depth of the water.  However, he pointed
out, since beaver will not usually chew deadwood; yet the construction of
such a set is tedious and it has to be very sturdy.  He says that is why it
is seldom used today; too much work and sometimes it is unstable.

2. The earlier post about the stone drag used in the Ozark waters parallels
the other technique.  Eric claims that the Washington  Irving document I
posted a few days ago hints at the type of set.  As he won't let me come
right out and tell of this method. He said 'Give them trappers a riddle'. He
claims that an old time trapping author, Stanley Hawbaker published this
unique method used long ago in the northeast.  However, Eric got it from an
Indian he once trapped with long before he read the book. This is not much
of a riddle, but for the adept trapper it is hinted at strongly in this
paragraph.  He said this method was so foolproof, that seldom would a
trapper lose a beaver.

Eric says trapping techniques were like the secretive beaver medicine; you
seldom told a soul!

   Eric's funny, in that he won't tell anyone where he hunts either.  Says
when you tell one eleven others tell someone else.  Although he doesn't feel
that the mountaineer types are a threat to his bounty trapping.  He just
says what ever we write is preserved for everyone to see.  But he did allow
me to give a few hints for the 'diligent hardcores'.
>
>I want to fully understand his position as regards the methods cited in the
>article, as I gather that he has a great deal of hands-on experience
>actually trapping beaver over the years.



>As I will be making his copy tomorrow, should you wish to have a copy to
>review, since I can make two copies about as easily as I can make one,
>please advise and I will send it to you immediately.
>

Mr. Jones, I do not want to seem ungrateful or rude on your offer.  But I
have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the list.  I
really do not want anyone lingering around or knocking at my door, or
whatever.  I totally understand your enthusiasm for your sport/hobby; but I
need my privacy.  The authors and titles of the documents in the
bibliography would be most helpful, if you wanted to off-list e-mail them.
Again, I am grateful for the offer.

Respectfully,

Sue Raven

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dept of Interior websites
Date: 12 Feb 2002 15:51:10 EST


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In a message dated 2/12, [e-mail] writes:

<< ----(stuff deleted )---- There is a major investigation going on concerning
mishandling (large scale theft) of Indian trust funds by agencies within the
Federal Government DOI specificly ----(stuff deleted )---- >>

Amazing, it only took them 130 years to notice and start an investigation.
But will we live long enough to see a conclusion?

Longshot
"Longshot's Rendezvous"
www.wizzywigweb.com/longshot/

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/12, [e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR><< ----(stuff deleted )---- There is a major investigation going on concerning
<BR>mishandling (large scale theft) of Indian trust funds by agencies within the
<BR>Federal Government DOI specificly ----(stuff deleted )---- >>
<BR>
<BR>Amazing, it only took them 130 years to notice and start an investigation. But will we live long enough to see a conclusion?
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Longshot
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>"Longshot's Rendezvous"
<BR>www.wizzywigweb.com/longshot/</FONT></HTML>

--part1_116.c31acc5.299ada3e_boundary--

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From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 12 Feb 2002 15:08:36 -0600

>
> Mr. Jones, I do not want to seem ungrateful or rude on your offer.  But I
> have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the list.  I
> really do not want anyone lingering around or knocking at my door, or
> whatever.  I totally understand your enthusiasm for your sport/hobby; but
I
> need my privacy.  The authors and titles of the documents in the
> bibliography would be most helpful, if you wanted to off-list e-mail them.
> Again, I am grateful for the offer.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sue Raven
>

Sue,

I am sorry that your are receiving unwanted correspondence from would be
suitors, but truely, I am a happily married man who has no interest (or
extra) ardor for anyone other than my spouse, and moreover, I have no
interest in where you live as I will never, ever, linger around or knock on
your door.  I am too old, my wife is too mean, and I would rather spend my
remaining years staring at mountains without the restraint of iron bars.

Perhaps you could contact me off-list with a third party address, someone
who you trust to keep your identity and location a secret, or simply provide
me with a fax number with instructions as to how it is to be addressed.
Kinkos and other stores that receive faxes for their customers do not care
what name is used, and you can call yourself whatever, or have a friend in a
different part of the world do same for you.  Frankly, the article is worth
reading, the references are sparse and not clearly on point.

However, it is your call.

Do appreciate the information from your brother.

Regards,

Paul



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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 19 Feb 2002 15:28:48 -0500

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Am I paranoid?
Or is the "other list {mlml} totally moderated?
Im up to 17 posts being rejected
2 for "unproper wording" i.e use of name stores.
Just wondering, as I know not different
Sam Windwalker

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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Am I paranoid?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or is the "other list {mlml} totally=20
moderated?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im up to 17 posts being =
rejected</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2 for "unproper wording" i.e use of =
name=20
stores.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just wondering, as I know not=20
different</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam =
Windwalker</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Lee Newbill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 12 Feb 2002 13:21:27 -0800

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Sam

I haven't been on the MLML list for a while, but it was heavily =
moderated when I was there.  There is a website with the rules on it at =
http://members.aol.com/illinewek/ =20

Regards from Idaho

Lee Newbill
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: WindWalker=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:28 PM
  Subject: MtMan-List: off topic


  Am I paranoid?
  Or is the "other list {mlml} totally moderated?
  Im up to 17 posts being rejected
  2 for "unproper wording" i.e use of name stores.
  Just wondering, as I know not different
  Sam Windwalker

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I haven't been on the MLML list for a =
while, but it=20
was heavily moderated when I was there.  There is a website with =
the rules=20
on it at <A=20
href=3D"http://members.aol.com/illinewek/">http://members.aol.com/illinew=
ek/</A> =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards from Idaho</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lee Newbill</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">WindWalker</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 19, =
2002 12:28=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: off =
topic</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Am I paranoid?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or is the "other list {mlml} totally=20
  moderated?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im up to 17 posts being =
rejected</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2 for "unproper wording" i.e use of =
name=20
  stores.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just wondering, as I know not=20
  different</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam=20
Windwalker</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 19 Feb 2002 15:43:27 -0500

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Thanks
To many rules for me, had to give life history, just to join list
then, being rejected on posts just dont cut it...
I made a couple posts in reguard to questions I was asked direct.. still =
that havent been "approved"
My thoughts... Im to old to be waiting on pups to either approve my =
context/spelling ect or disapprove...
35 things must be in orger to post and wind must be from south ect =
ect....
Will tend to the matter indeed !
Thanks just wanted to know as my post on moderation there was rejected =
also..
Sam
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Lee Newbill=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:21 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic


  Sam

  I haven't been on the MLML list for a while, but it was heavily =
moderated when I was there.  There is a website with the rules on it at =
http://members.aol.com/illinewek/ =20

  Regards from Idaho

  Lee Newbill
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: WindWalker=20
    To: [e-mail]=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:28 PM
    Subject: MtMan-List: off topic


    Am I paranoid?
    Or is the "other list {mlml} totally moderated?
    Im up to 17 posts being rejected
    2 for "unproper wording" i.e use of name stores.
    Just wondering, as I know not different
    Sam Windwalker

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To many rules for me, had to give life =
history,=20
just to join list</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>then, being rejected on posts just dont =
cut=20
it...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I made a couple posts in reguard to =
questions I was=20
asked direct.. still that havent been "approved"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My thoughts... Im to old to be waiting =
on pups to=20
either approve my context/spelling ect or disapprove...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>35 things must be in orger to post and =
wind must be=20
from south ect ect....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Will tend to the matter indeed =
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks just wanted to know as my post =
on moderation=20
there was rejected also..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Lee=20
  Newbill</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 12, =
2002 4:21=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: off =
topic</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I haven't been on the MLML list for a =
while, but=20
  it was heavily moderated when I was there.  There is a website =
with the=20
  rules on it at <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://members.aol.com/illinewek/">http://members.aol.com/illinew=
ek/</A> =20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards from Idaho</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lee Newbill</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=[e-mail]=20
    href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">WindWalker</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    title=[e-mail]=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 19, =
2002 12:28=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: off =
topic</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Am I paranoid?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or is the "other list {mlml} =
totally=20
    moderated?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im up to 17 posts being =
rejected</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2 for "unproper wording" i.e use of =
name=20
    stores.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just wondering, as I know not=20
    different</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam=20
Windwalker</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 12 Feb 2002 17:06:25 EST


In a message dated 2/12/02 1:31:50 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Thanks just wanted to know as my post on moderation there was rejected
also..

Sam >>

Haaaaa..... Don't feel bad Sam, I was told to shut my mouth there on
occassion too....<G> Kanger gets a bit testy if you don't agree with him....

Magpie

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 19 Feb 2002 16:38:49 -0500

Greets...
well Im to old to be told to shut mouth...
Would jerk a top knot for that indeed... and in a heartbeat.
Well its his forum I guess.....
Maybe thats why in the ole days alot proclaimed themselves 'Freetrappers"?
so they didnt have to deal with stuff liken that?
Nice to meet ya
Sam Windwalker
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 5:06 PM


>
> In a message dated 2/12/02 1:31:50 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Thanks just wanted to know as my post on moderation there was rejected
> also..
>
> Sam >>
>
> Haaaaa..... Don't feel bad Sam, I was told to shut my mouth there on
> occassion too....<G> Kanger gets a bit testy if you don't agree with
him....
>
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 12 Feb 2002 17:31:16 -0600

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you wrote:
I haven't been on the MLML list for a while, but it was heavily =
moderated when I was there.  There is a website with the rules on it at =
http://members.aol.com/illinewek/ =20

I was on that list for a while.....it's a joke.  More idiots per capita =
than you can imagine.  You should hear the notions some of them hold =
regarding ballistics.  Whoo Hoo
I told them that my time with them was saucered and blowed and bailed.
Lanney Ratcliff

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>you wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I haven't been on the MLML list for a while, but it =
was=20
heavily moderated when I was there.  There is a website with the =
rules on=20
it at </FONT><A href=3D"http://members.aol.com/illinewek/"><FONT=20
size=3D2>http://members.aol.com/illinewek/</FONT></A><FONT =
size=3D2> =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was on that list for a while.....it's a =
joke.  More=20
idiots per capita than you can imagine.  You should hear the =
notions some=20
of them hold regarding ballistics.  Whoo Hoo</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I told them that my time with them was saucered and =
blowed and=20
bailed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney Ratcliff</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:
Date: 12 Feb 2002 17:40:23 -0800

does anyone know how to get creosote off my canvas tent ?


Mineral Spirits should take it out.
Pendleton
" Youth, is wasted on the young ! "


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 12 Feb 2002 19:39:29 -0500

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Nope... you are not mistaken.  It is 100% moderated.  I got in a whizz =
contest with the owner and was told that "You can't win a gunfight with =
the list woner!!"...  I am also on the "moderated" list and have been =
told to watch it or I am probably the next to get booted.  It's a great =
list and I have learned alot, so I have been watching my p's and q's...

Ad Miller


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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2>Nope... you are not =
mistaken. =20
It is 100% moderated.  I got in a whizz contest with the owner and =
was told=20
that "You can't win a gunfight with the list woner!!"...  I am also =
on the=20
"moderated" list and have been told to watch it or I am probably the =
next to get=20
booted.  It's a great list and I have learned alot, so I have been =
watching=20
my p's and q's...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2>Ad Miller</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #800000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 12 Feb 2002 20:30:14 EST


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In a message dated 2/12/2002 2:07:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Kanger gets a bit testy if you don't agree with him....

ya think, Magpie?  <EG>    Yes, Sam it's WAY moderated, by multiple
moderators, and they keep it in line for it's established purpose.  Lots of
good info there, and many of us belong to both; others that shared HUGE
amounts of knowledge have been cut off of MLML for their disagreements with
the list owner, but are thankfully still here....  Glad to have you aboard,
and hopefully one day we'll share a campfire together.  Barney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 2/12/2002 2:07:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Kanger gets a bit testy if you don't agree with him....</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
ya think, Magpie?  <EG>    Yes, Sam it's WAY moderated, by multiple moderators, and they keep it in line for it's established purpose.  Lots of good info there, and many of us belong to both; others that shared HUGE amounts of knowledge have been cut off of MLML for their disagreements with the list owner, but are thankfully still here....  Glad to have you aboard, and hopefully one day we'll share a campfire together.  Barney   </B></FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST


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blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
from a few on the list.  I really do not want anyone lingering around or
knocking at my door, or whatever.">>

Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
'trapping'.  How ironic.

<A HREF="http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet Trolls</A>

Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
time and energy...

Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
virtually all of us in post(s).

Like the website says...  if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
to ignore rather than encourage them.      Barney



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the list.  I really do not want anyone lingering around or knocking at my door, or whatever.">><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on 'trapping'.  How ironic.<BR>
<BR>
<A HREF="http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet Trolls</A></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) time and energy... <BR>
<BR>
Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed virtually all of us in post(s). <BR>
<BR>
Like the website says...  if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best to ignore rather than encourage them.      Barney <BR>
<BR>
 </B></FONT></HTML>

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From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: MLML
Date: 12 Feb 2002 20:10:28 -0600

Magpie said,
    <Kanger gets a bit testy if you don't agree with him....>
    And that is stating the situation delicately.

Barney said,
    < others that shared HUGE
amounts of knowledge have been cut off of MLML for their disagreements with
the list owner>
    I shared what little I could and made many friends via MLML. However, I
too was cut off because I disagreed with Dave Kangar, the list owner.
    In point: He stated there is no flint in the U.S.  I quoted a renowned
geologist who stated that there are many vast deposits of flint through out
the U.S.  Of course, any one who has ever set foot outdoors in many parts of
America knows that.
    My posted proof was my undoing.
    Now, a mouthpiece for Kangar says I can get back on the list if I
apologize. Apologize?
    I'll not comment on that so that this posting can remain suitable for
family consumption.
Frank

Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders


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From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 12 Feb 2002 20:18:01 -0600

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Barney,

Frankly, I did not pay attention to the earlier posting about trolls, =
and had put he/she/it Garrett in the mental waste basket.  After just =
rereading all of the correspondence from blond40DD...@hotmail... and =
then the complete troll site, I have the impression that you are right =
on point.  So, the delete button still works, and I, for one, fairly or =
not, will not play with Sue anymore.  So much for the Master of the =
Universe Trapper Brother, and he had SO much wisdom to impart.  As I =
reread the material, I almost felt like I was dealing with a spiritual =
medium raising the voice of one no longer with us.

Anyway, Barney, thanks for the suggestion.

Paul =20

P.S.  Dennis, you win.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:03 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article


  blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list =
e-mails from a few on the list.  I really do not want anyone lingering =
around or knocking at my door, or whatever.">>

  Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what =
you may be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a =
thread on 'trapping'.  How ironic.

  Internet Trolls

  Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I =
think you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your =
(and a list's) time and energy...=20

  Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint =
Garrett' disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, =
and slammed virtually all of us in post(s).=20

  Like the website says...  if you think you're dealing with a Troll, =
it's best to ignore rather than encourage them.      Barney=20



------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1B402.5E820C80
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Barney,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Frankly, I did not pay attention to the =
earlier=20
posting about trolls, and had put he/she/it Garrett in the mental waste=20
basket.  After just rereading all of the correspondence from=20
blond40DD...@hotmail... and then the complete troll site, I have the =
impression=20
that you are right on point.  So, the delete button still works, =
and I, for=20
one, fairly or not, will not play with Sue anymore.  So much for =
the Master=20
of the Universe Trapper Brother, and he had SO much wisdom to =
impart.  As I=20
reread the material, I almost felt like I was dealing with a spiritual =
medium=20
raising the voice of one no longer with us.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Anyway, Barney, thanks for the=20
suggestion.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Paul  </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>P.S.  Dennis, you =
win.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 12, =
2002 8:03=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: BoB =
Trapping'=20
  Article</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial =
lang=3D0 size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been =
getting some=20
  ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the list.  I really do not =
want=20
  anyone lingering around or knocking at my door, or=20
  whatever.">><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic =
Sans MS"=20
  lang=3D0 size=3D2 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" =
FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><B>Folks, once=20
  again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may be =
dealing=20
  with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on =
'trapping'. =20
  How ironic.<BR><BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet=20
  Trolls</A></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS" lang=3D0 =
size=3D2=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><BR><BR>Please =
take the time=20
  to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think you'll come to =

  understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) time =
and=20
  energy... <BR><BR>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about =
the time=20
  'Clint Garrett' disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since =
that=20
  time, and slammed virtually all of us in post(s). <BR><BR>Like the =
website=20
  says...  if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best to =
ignore=20
  rather than encourage them.      Barney=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></B></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1B402.5E820C80--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Todd Glover <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 12 Feb 2002 19:37:40 -0700

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

----__JNP_000_00de.0c9c.3d49
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Paul,

Welcome to the club..nice to have you aboard!

Todd

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:18:01 -0600 "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
writes:
Barney,

Frankly, I did not pay attention to the earlier posting about trolls, and
had put he/she/it Garrett in the mental waste basket.  After just
rereading all of the correspondence from blond40DD...@hotmail... and then
the complete troll site, I have the impression that you are right on
point.  So, the delete button still works, and I, for one, fairly or not,
will not play with Sue anymore. So much for the Master of the Universe
Trapper Brother, and he had SO much wisdom to impart.  As I reread the
material, I almost felt like I was dealing with a spiritual medium
raising the voice of one no longer with us.

Anyway, Barney, thanks for the suggestion.

Paul

P.S.  Dennis, you win.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:03 PM


blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails from a few on the list.  I really do not want anyone lingering
around or knocking at my door, or whatever.">>

Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
'trapping'.  How ironic.

Internet Trolls

Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and
a list's) time and energy...

Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett' disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time,
and slammed virtually all of us in post(s).

Like the website says...  if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best to ignore rather than encourage them.      Barney




"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Paul,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Welcome to the club..nice to have you aboard!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Todd</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:18:01 -0600 "Paul Jones" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>> writes:</=
DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: =
10px">
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Barney,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Frankly, I did not pay attention to the =
earlier=20
  posting about trolls, and had put he/she/it Garrett in the mental waste=20
  basket.  After just rereading all of the correspondence from=20
  blond40DD...@hotmail... and then the complete troll site, I have the=20
  impression that you are right on point.  So, the delete button still=
=20
  works, and I, for one, fairly or not, will not play with Sue anymore. So =
much=20
  for the Master of the Universe Trapper Brother, and he had SO much =
wisdom=20
  to impart.  As I reread the material, I almost felt like I was =
dealing=20
  with a spiritual medium raising the voice of one no longer with=20
  us.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Anyway, Barney, thanks for the=20
  suggestion.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Paul  </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>P.S.  Dennis, you win.</STRONG></FONT></=
DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>=
    <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
    title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
    title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> <=
/DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 12, 2002=
 8:03=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: BoB =
Trapping'=20
    Article</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial lang=3D0=
 size=3D2=20
    FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been =
getting some=20
    ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the list.  I really do not =
want=20
    anyone lingering around or knocking at my door, or=20
    whatever.">><BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic =
Sans MS"=20
    lang=3D0 size=3D2 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"=
><B>Folks,=20
    once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may =
be=20
    dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on=20
    'trapping'.  How ironic.<BR><BR><A=20
    href=3D"http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet=20
    Trolls</A></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Comic Sans MS" lang=3D0 =
size=3D2=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><BR><BR>Please =
take the=20
    time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think you'll =
come to=20
    understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) time and=
=20
    energy... <BR><BR>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about =
the=20
    time 'Clint Garrett' disappeared; has created plenty of controversy =
since=20
    that time, and slammed virtually all of us in post(s). <BR><BR>Like the=
=20
    website says...  if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's =
best to=20
    ignore rather than encourage them.      Barney=
=20
    <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></B></FONT></FONT>
  <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784<BR></BODY>=
</HTML>

----__JNP_000_00de.0c9c.3d49--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 12 Feb 2002 22:13:29 -0500

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

----__JNP_000_74db.6fab.2776
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

lANNY---and AD--and all
YOU BAILED I GOT KICKED OFF---FOR SPEAKING MY MIND TO THE LIST OWNER WHO
IS A JOKE ----HE IS ASO  MEMBER OF THIS LIST ---HE NEEDS TO GET A LIFE
AND FIND THE PROPER DRUGS OR LIBATION TO FIX HIS EGO---AND YES I AM
SHOUTING---

is that a nuff said or what---lanny you are like myself---dont mence many
words---if i hurt your feelings i'm sorry but sometimes things need to be
said  and direct--if i am wrong i will be the first to admit it--

Nuff said ---and i posted all my info to.

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce


On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:31:16 -0600 "Lanney Ratcliff"
<[e-mail]> writes:
you wrote:
I haven't been on the MLML list for a while, but it was heavily moderated
when I was there.  There is a website with the rules on it at
http://members.aol.com/illinewek/

I was on that list for a while.....it's a joke.  More idiots per capita
than you can imagine.  You should hear the notions some of them hold
regarding ballistics.  Whoo Hoo
I told them that my time with them was saucered and blowed and bailed.
Lanney Ratcliff
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>lANNY---and AD--and all</DIV>
<DIV>YOU BAILED I GOT KICKED OFF---FOR SPEAKING MY MIND TO THE LIST OWNER =
WHO IS=20
A JOKE ----HE IS ASO  MEMBER OF THIS LIST ---HE NEEDS TO GET A LIFE =
AND=20
FIND THE PROPER DRUGS OR LIBATION TO FIX HIS EGO---AND YES I AM=20
SHOUTING---</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>is that a nuff said or what---lanny you are like myself---dont mence =
many=20
words---if i hurt your feelings i'm sorry but sometimes things need to be=20
said  and direct--if i am wrong i will be the first to admit it--</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Nuff said ---and i posted all my info to.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"HAWK"<BR>Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C)=
=20
product line & "the Arkansas Underhammers"<BR>854 Glenfield Dr<BR>Palm=
=20
Harbor,   Florida   =20
34684           &=
nbsp;=20
Phone: [phone]<BR>e-mail: [e-mail]   web=20
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce</DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV>On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:31:16 -0600 "Lanney Ratcliff" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>> writes:</=
DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid">
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>you wrote:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I haven't been on the MLML list for a while, but it =
was=20
  heavily moderated when I was there.  There is a website with the =
rules on=20
  it at </FONT><A href=3D"http://members.aol.com/illinewek/"><FONT=20
  size=3D2>http://members.aol.com/illinewek/</FONT></A><FONT size=3D2> =
;=20
  </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was on that list for a while.....it's a joke. =
 More=20
  idiots per capita than you can imagine.  You should hear the notions=
 some=20
  of them hold regarding ballistics.  Whoo Hoo</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I told them that my time with them was saucered and =
blowed=20
  and bailed.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney Ratcliff</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BODY></HTML>

----__JNP_000_74db.6fab.2776--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JW Stephens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 12 Feb 2002 20:04:55 -0800

Pablo, Barney is a brother whose observations are ALWAYS right on point.
Except, don't ask him if you should sleep with a loaded and capped
pistola under yer pillow. He's bound ta be a leettle testy about that
question ...

And on the other thing ... Dennis usually wins. Never argue with a guy
who makes weapons for a living, and drinks a dram for a hobby. I'm sure
that advice would come straight from Barney, to.

B'st'rd, just down from the cold high desert (to the warm, smoggy fukdup
metropolis. Damm.)

> Paul Jones wrote:
>
> Barney,
>
> Frankly, I did not pay attention to the earlier posting about trolls,
> and had put he/she/it Garrett in the mental waste basket.  After just
> rereading all of the correspondence from blond40DD...@hotmail... and
> then the complete troll site, I have the impression that you are right
> on point.  So, the delete button still works, and I, for one, fairly
> or not, will not play with Sue anymore. So much for the Master of the
> Universe Trapper Brother, and he had SO much wisdom to impart.  As I
> reread the material, I almost felt like I was dealing with a spiritual
> medium raising the voice of one no longer with us.
>
> Anyway, Barney, thanks for the suggestion.
>
> Paul
>
> P.S.  Dennis, you win.
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: [e-mail]
>      To: [e-mail]
>      Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:03 PM
>      Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
>
>      blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent
>      off-list e-mails from a few on the list.  I really do not
>      want anyone lingering around or knocking at my door, or
>      whatever.">>
>
>      Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to
>      learn what you may be dealing with here. The above statement
>      was thrown into a thread on 'trapping'.  How ironic.
>
>      Internet Trolls
>
>      Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL
>      TROLLS, and I think you'll come to understand how they are
>      capable of wasting your (and a list's) time and energy...
>
>      Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time
>      'Clint Garrett' disappeared; has created plenty of
>      controversy since that time, and slammed virtually all of us
>      in post(s).
>
>      Like the website says...  if you think you're dealing with a
>      Troll, it's best to ignore rather than encourage them.
>      Barney

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 12 Feb 2002 22:22:51 -0600

I wondered if anybody would bite on that.  You wrote me off list but I will
respond to the list because it is a bit of nearly forgotten history.
For many years it was the custom of "country" people...men almost
exclusively..... in this part of the world to "saucer" their coffee.  That
is, they would have their coffee in a cup, sitting in a saucer.  They would
gently tip the cup a little, spilling a quantity into the saucer.  They
would sit the cup aside and pick up the saucer using the thumb and two
forefingers of each hand and "blowed" the coffee to cool it a tad.
Generally the coffee was drunk directly from the saucer with a loud slurp,
which ticked off the womenfolk to no end.  And when your coffee was all
"saucered and blowed" you were finished with your coffee.
Pretty rural.  Used to be pretty common but is almost unheard of anymore.
Anybody who still does it is likely to be wearing kakhi pants and cotton
suspenders, smell of Garretts dry snuff and can tell tales of WWI.
A tiny tidbit of history that was once common but is largely forgotten now
and will never be mentioned in the history books.
Lanney
ps:  My wife just read this and said that she saw her granddaddy and her
uncle Bill do it a thousand times.


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:56 PM


> Ummm ... Lanney ... could you translate this part from Texican for me?
>
> B'st'rd
>
> > Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
> >
> > I told them that my time with them was saucered and blowed and bailed.
>
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Demmick info
Date: 12 Feb 2002 23:53:58 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Does anyone have source on internet for pictures
of Demmick Rifles?
Im having little luck finding via web search engines.
Thanks
Sam

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone have source on internet for =

pictures</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of Demmick Rifles?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im having little luck finding via web =
search=20
engines.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JW Stephens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 12 Feb 2002 22:20:41 -0800

In my recent travels in the desert I came across more strong evidence of
trapping success; I present for your inspection a mess of peetreefied
beaver tails. I guess that modern trappers don't need to eat these
tender parts anymore and just pile 'em up to wither away.

ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/users/lray/DSCF1144.jpg

B'st'rd

(If this link doesn't float your stick please reply to me off-list and I
will send you the image as an attachment by way of reply. Some people
can't get this FTP server to work for them.)

> Pablo wrote:
>
> Since the article has been questioned to this degree, I am sending a
> copy of it to a friend from Kansas, who, over the course of some years
> of hard effort, has actually trapped several thousand beaver,
> including over 350 during a 3-1/2 week period several years ago, while
> trapping on the Arkansas River.

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20MLML?=
Date: 13 Feb 2002 01:52:40 EST


In a message dated 2/12/02 6:11:54 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<  I shared what little I could and made many friends via MLML. However, I

too was cut off because I disagreed with Dave Kangar, the list owner. >>

Haaaaaaa......and I thought it was just my bad attitude! <G> Naw....ole=20
Kanger just lacks a bit in the social graces. It was a good list, but it may=
=20
well be he ends up the only one on it.

Magpie =20

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 06:56:32 -0500

Lanney,
 My Dad used to do that, thanks for reminding me, brought a grin to my mug
this morning....
D

----- Original Message -----
Cc: "JW Stephens" <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:22 PM


> I wondered if anybody would bite on that.  You wrote me off list but I
will
> respond to the list because it is a bit of nearly forgotten history.
> For many years it was the custom of "country" people...men almost
> exclusively..... in this part of the world to "saucer" their coffee.  That
> is, they would have their coffee in a cup, sitting in a saucer.  They
would
> gently tip the cup a little, spilling a quantity into the saucer.  They
> would sit the cup aside and pick up the saucer using the thumb and two
> forefingers of each hand and "blowed" the coffee to cool it a tad.
> Generally the coffee was drunk directly from the saucer with a loud slurp,
> which ticked off the womenfolk to no end.  And when your coffee was all
> "saucered and blowed" you were finished with your coffee.
> Pretty rural.  Used to be pretty common but is almost unheard of anymore.
> Anybody who still does it is likely to be wearing kakhi pants and cotton
> suspenders, smell of Garretts dry snuff and can tell tales of WWI.
> A tiny tidbit of history that was once common but is largely forgotten now
> and will never be mentioned in the history books.
> Lanney
> ps:  My wife just read this and said that she saw her granddaddy and her
> uncle Bill do it a thousand times.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JW Stephens" <[e-mail]>
> To: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:56 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
>
>
> > Ummm ... Lanney ... could you translate this part from Texican for me?
> >
> > B'st'rd
> >
> > > Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
> > >
> > > I told them that my time with them was saucered and blowed and bailed.
> >
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike Bowling" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:09:47 -0600

It brought back good memories for me to D. When I was a youngen my grandma
would give us coffee in a saucer with a piece of bread with sugar and butter
on it .Shinning times they was.
                                                              MM
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 5:56 AM


> Lanney,
>  My Dad used to do that, thanks for reminding me, brought a grin to my mug
> this morning....
> D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
> To: "History List" <[e-mail]>
> Cc: "JW Stephens" <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:22 PM
> Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: off topic
>
>
> > I wondered if anybody would bite on that.  You wrote me off list but I
> will
> > respond to the list because it is a bit of nearly forgotten history.
> > For many years it was the custom of "country" people...men almost
> > exclusively..... in this part of the world to "saucer" their coffee.
That
> > is, they would have their coffee in a cup, sitting in a saucer.  They
> would
> > gently tip the cup a little, spilling a quantity into the saucer.  They
> > would sit the cup aside and pick up the saucer using the thumb and two
> > forefingers of each hand and "blowed" the coffee to cool it a tad.
> > Generally the coffee was drunk directly from the saucer with a loud
slurp,
> > which ticked off the womenfolk to no end.  And when your coffee was all
> > "saucered and blowed" you were finished with your coffee.
> > Pretty rural.  Used to be pretty common but is almost unheard of
anymore.
> > Anybody who still does it is likely to be wearing kakhi pants and cotton
> > suspenders, smell of Garretts dry snuff and can tell tales of WWI.
> > A tiny tidbit of history that was once common but is largely forgotten
now
> > and will never be mentioned in the history books.
> > Lanney
> > ps:  My wife just read this and said that she saw her granddaddy and her
> > uncle Bill do it a thousand times.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "JW Stephens" <[e-mail]>
> > To: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
> >
> >
> > > Ummm ... Lanney ... could you translate this part from Texican for me?
> > >
> > > B'st'rd
> > >
> > > > Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I told them that my time with them was saucered and blowed and
bailed.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:05:11 -0500

MM.
 That ain't the East Kentucky kin, is it???<GG>
D

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:09 AM


> It brought back good memories for me to D. When I was a youngen my grandma
> would give us coffee in a saucer with a piece of bread with sugar and
butter
> on it .Shinning times they was.
>                                                               MM
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 5:56 AM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
>
>
> > Lanney,
> >  My Dad used to do that, thanks for reminding me, brought a grin to my
mug
> > this morning....
> > D
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
> > To: "History List" <[e-mail]>
> > Cc: "JW Stephens" <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:22 PM
> > Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: off topic
> >
> >
> > > I wondered if anybody would bite on that.  You wrote me off list but I
> > will
> > > respond to the list because it is a bit of nearly forgotten history.
> > > For many years it was the custom of "country" people...men almost
> > > exclusively..... in this part of the world to "saucer" their coffee.
> That
> > > is, they would have their coffee in a cup, sitting in a saucer.  They
> > would
> > > gently tip the cup a little, spilling a quantity into the saucer.
They
> > > would sit the cup aside and pick up the saucer using the thumb and two
> > > forefingers of each hand and "blowed" the coffee to cool it a tad.
> > > Generally the coffee was drunk directly from the saucer with a loud
> slurp,
> > > which ticked off the womenfolk to no end.  And when your coffee was
all
> > > "saucered and blowed" you were finished with your coffee.
> > > Pretty rural.  Used to be pretty common but is almost unheard of
> anymore.
> > > Anybody who still does it is likely to be wearing kakhi pants and
cotton
> > > suspenders, smell of Garretts dry snuff and can tell tales of WWI.
> > > A tiny tidbit of history that was once common but is largely forgotten
> now
> > > and will never be mentioned in the history books.
> > > Lanney
> > > ps:  My wife just read this and said that she saw her granddaddy and
her
> > > uncle Bill do it a thousand times.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "JW Stephens" <[e-mail]>
> > > To: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:56 PM
> > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ummm ... Lanney ... could you translate this part from Texican for
me?
> > > >
> > > > B'st'rd
> > > >
> > > > > Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I told them that my time with them was saucered and blowed and
> bailed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> > >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:08:03 -0500

Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
> For many years it was the custom of "country" people...men almost
exclusively..... in this part of the world to "saucer" their coffee.

This is how my Great Grandfather taught me to drink coffee and is the way I
drink it to this day, if I have have a saucer. I never could figgure out why
it bothers the wimmon so much!
>
> Anybody who still does it is likely to be wearing kakhi pants and cotton
suspenders, smell of Garretts dry snuff and can tell tales of WWI.

No, I wear broadfalls or overalls and I don't like tobacco. I can tell tales
of primitive campouts, does that count? LOL

Possum
Southern Cherokee Nation
"I was born upon the prairie where the wind blew free and there was nothing
to break the light of the sun. I was born where there were no enclosures and
where everything drew a free breath. I want to die there, not within
walls." --Ten Bears, Yamparika Comanche


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike Bowling" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:24:29 -0600

No not them. They don't which side the butter goes on.
                                                                     MM
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:05 AM


> MM.
>  That ain't the East Kentucky kin, is it???<GG>
> D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Bowling" <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:09 AM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
>
>
> > It brought back good memories for me to D. When I was a youngen my
grandma
> > would give us coffee in a saucer with a piece of bread with sugar and
> butter
> > on it .Shinning times they was.
> >                                                               MM
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
> > To: <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 5:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
> >
> >
> > > Lanney,
> > >  My Dad used to do that, thanks for reminding me, brought a grin to my
> mug
> > > this morning....
> > > D
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
> > > To: "History List" <[e-mail]>
> > > Cc: "JW Stephens" <[e-mail]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:22 PM
> > > Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: off topic
> > >
> > >
> > > > I wondered if anybody would bite on that.  You wrote me off list but
I
> > > will
> > > > respond to the list because it is a bit of nearly forgotten history.
> > > > For many years it was the custom of "country" people...men almost
> > > > exclusively..... in this part of the world to "saucer" their coffee.
> > That
> > > > is, they would have their coffee in a cup, sitting in a saucer.
They
> > > would
> > > > gently tip the cup a little, spilling a quantity into the saucer.
> They
> > > > would sit the cup aside and pick up the saucer using the thumb and
two
> > > > forefingers of each hand and "blowed" the coffee to cool it a tad.
> > > > Generally the coffee was drunk directly from the saucer with a loud
> > slurp,
> > > > which ticked off the womenfolk to no end.  And when your coffee was
> all
> > > > "saucered and blowed" you were finished with your coffee.
> > > > Pretty rural.  Used to be pretty common but is almost unheard of
> > anymore.
> > > > Anybody who still does it is likely to be wearing kakhi pants and
> cotton
> > > > suspenders, smell of Garretts dry snuff and can tell tales of WWI.
> > > > A tiny tidbit of history that was once common but is largely
forgotten
> > now
> > > > and will never be mentioned in the history books.
> > > > Lanney
> > > > ps:  My wife just read this and said that she saw her granddaddy and
> her
> > > > uncle Bill do it a thousand times.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "JW Stephens" <[e-mail]>
> > > > To: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:56 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Ummm ... Lanney ... could you translate this part from Texican for
> me?
> > > > >
> > > > > B'st'rd
> > > > >
> > > > > > Lanney Ratcliff wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I told them that my time with them was saucered and blowed and
> > bailed.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------
> > > > hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:16:12 -0500


Mike
Just tryin' to get a rise outta ya..<GG>
D

Visit one or all these sites, find out about the [AMM]  (American Mountain
Men's) "Great Buffalo Raffle".


AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html
Double Edge forge  http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
Historical Research: http://conner110.tripod.com/
Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/

see the AMM site for more supporters of this event.



----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mike Bowling" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:32:47 -0600

D
Maybe have a saucer full of coffee with ya this sun.
                                                                 MM
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:16 AM


>
> Mike
> Just tryin' to get a rise outta ya..<GG>
> D
>
> Visit one or all these sites, find out about the [AMM]  (American Mountain
> Men's) "Great Buffalo Raffle".
>
>
> AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle": http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html
> Double Edge forge  http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
> Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
> Historical Research: http://conner110.tripod.com/
> Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
>
> see the AMM site for more supporters of this event.
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:25:36 -0500

MM
Ye got it...
D

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:32 AM


> D
> Maybe have a saucer full of coffee with ya this sun.
>                                                                  MM
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:16 AM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
>
>
> >
> > Mike
> > Just tryin' to get a rise outta ya..<GG>
> > D
> >
> > Visit one or all these sites, find out about the [AMM]  (American
Mountain
> > Men's) "Great Buffalo Raffle".
> >
> >
> > AMM "The Great Buffalo Raffle":
http://conner110.tripod.com/AMM-hunt.html
> > Double Edge forge  http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
> > Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/
> > Historical Research: http://conner110.tripod.com/
> > Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/
> >
> > see the AMM site for more supporters of this event.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 10:42:05 -0500

Magpie wrote:
> Haaaaa..... Don't feel bad Sam, I was told to shut my mouth there on
occassion too....<G> Kanger gets a bit testy if you don't agree with him....

LOL, Kanger sure didn't like my posts about cleaning my gun with "Rocket
Fuel"! He don't even like my sig file!

Possum
Southern Cherokee Nation
"I was born upon the prairie where the wind blew free and there was nothing
to break the light of the sun. I was born where there were no enclosures and
where everything drew a free breath. I want to die there, not within
walls." --Ten Bears, Yamparika Comanche



----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 08:59:21 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: WindWalker=20
      To: [e-mail]=20
      Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:28 PM
      Subject: MtMan-List: off topic


      Am I paranoid?
      Or is the "other list {mlml} totally moderated?
      I'm up to 17 posts being rejected
      2 for "unproper wording" i.e use of name stores.
      Just wondering, as I know not different
      Sam=20

Sam,

The other list is moderated. Sometimes 100%, some times selectively, =
sometimes not at all. But it does not have any flame wars and people who =
insist on being silly (read that rude or full of themselves) don't last. =
The rules are not difficult to adhere to if one is willing but if not, =
there are plenty of very knowledgeable folks and interesting folks who =
are willing to abide to make it a very informative and friendly place to =
share ideas.=20

Not having any idea what you have tried to post to the other list I can =
only surmise that you have failed to abide by some of the simple rules =
that allow your posts to go through with automatic regularity. There is =
no particular "proper" format other than staying on topic (which boils =
down to keeping it civil and about muzzle loading) and not quoting any =
more of the message your responding to beyond what it takes to let folks =
know what your talking about. Usually 5 lines of the previous message is =
the limit. (Pretty much as I have done here)=20

If your post goes over that, it is automatically sent back to you by the =
"mechanical" server all the messages go through. Not by a real person. =
That automatic server will weed out over quoting of the previous =
message, certain course or inflammatory words or phrases, but pays no =
attention to your spelling or sentence structure. Not all of us have =
good typing skills or good knowledge of these infernal machines and such =
is not required. What we're interested in here and on the mlml is good =
folks sharing their knowledge and ideas in a civil, helpful manner.

In your first few messages to the list your expected to share some basic =
information about yourself so that folks have a chance to "know you", =
which is important since we are not setting across a fire from each =
other. To weed out people who have hidden agendas, the first few posts =
from any new member are reviewed by a live moderator. No posts are =
rejected that are on topic and are following the simple rules =
established.

But the bottom line seems to be whether you care enough or have enough =
respect for the others who abide by the rules to abide by them yourself. =


And no one is too old to learn new tricks or learn how to play by the =
rules.=20

< I'm to old to be waiting on pups to either approve my context/spelling =
etc or disapprove...
35 things must be in orger to post and wind must be from south etc. =
etc.....>

Unless much has changed since I took my turn as a moderator on that =
list, no one is approving your context/spelling, etc. only reviewing =
that your following the rules. If you have problems with that then you =
probably shouldn't be on that list. It's of course your choice. But you =
will miss out on much good information just as the other members will =
miss out on what you have to bring to the table.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'




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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>----- Original Message =
----- </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=[e-mail]=20
      href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">WindWalker</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=[e-mail]=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 19, =
2002=20
      12:28 PM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: off =
topic</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Am I paranoid?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or is the "other list {mlml} =
totally=20
      moderated?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm up to 17 posts being=20
rejected</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2 for "unproper wording" i.e use =
of name=20
      stores.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just wondering, as I know not=20
      different</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam=20
</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The other list is moderated. Sometimes =
100%, some=20
times selectively, sometimes not at all. But it does not have any flame =
wars and=20
people who insist on being silly (read that rude or full of themselves) =
don't=20
last. The rules are not difficult to adhere to if one is willing but if =
not,=20
there are plenty of very knowledgeable folks and interesting folks who =
are=20
willing to abide to make it a very informative and friendly place to =
share=20
ideas. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not having any idea what you have tried =
to post to=20
the other list I can only surmise that you have failed to abide by some =
of the=20
simple rules that allow your posts to go through with automatic =
regularity.=20
There is no particular "proper" format other than staying on topic =
(which boils=20
down to keeping it civil and about muzzle loading) and not quoting any =
more of=20
the message your responding to beyond what it takes to let folks know =
what your=20
talking about. Usually 5 lines of the previous message is the limit. =
(Pretty=20
much as I have done here) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If your post goes over that, it is =
automatically=20
sent back to you by the "mechanical" server all the messages go through. =
Not by=20
a real person. That automatic server will weed out over quoting of the =
previous=20
message, certain course or inflammatory words or phrases, but pays no =
attention=20
to your spelling or sentence structure. Not all of us have good typing =
skills or=20
good knowledge of these infernal machines and such is not required. What =
we're=20
interested in here and on the mlml is good folks sharing their knowledge =

and ideas in a civil, helpful manner.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In your first few messages to the list =
your=20
expected to share some basic information about yourself so that folks =
have a=20
chance to "know you", which is important since we are not setting across =
a fire=20
from each other. To weed out people who have hidden agendas, the =
first few=20
posts from any new member are reviewed by a live moderator. No =
posts are=20
rejected that are on topic and are following the simple rules=20
established.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But the bottom line seems to be whether =
you care=20
enough or have enough respect for the others who abide by the rules to =
abide by=20
them yourself. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And no one is too old to learn new =
tricks or learn=20
how to play by the rules. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>< I'm to old to be waiting on pups =
to either=20
approve my context/spelling etc or disapprove...
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>35 things must be in orger to post and =
wind must be=20
from south etc. etc.....></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Unless much has changed since I took my turn as a moderator on that =
list,=20
no one is approving your context/spelling, etc. only reviewing that your =

following the rules. If you have problems with that then you probably =
shouldn't=20
be on that list. It's of course your choice. But you will miss out on =
much good=20
information just as the other members will miss out on what you have to =
bring to=20
the table.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>YMOS<BR>Capt. Lahti'</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 10:59:29 -0500

MAybe he dont like NA,s?
Met a few like that myself..
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:42 AM


> Magpie wrote:
> > Haaaaa..... Don't feel bad Sam, I was told to shut my mouth there on
> occassion too....<G> Kanger gets a bit testy if you don't agree with
him....
>
> LOL, Kanger sure didn't like my posts about cleaning my gun with "Rocket
> Fuel"! He don't even like my sig file!
>
> Possum
> Southern Cherokee Nation
> "I was born upon the prairie where the wind blew free and there was
nothing
> to break the light of the sun. I was born where there were no enclosures
and
> where everything drew a free breath. I want to die there, not within
> walls." --Ten Bears, Yamparika Comanche
>
>
>
> ----------------------
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>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Demmick info
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:10:55 -0500

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:53:58 -0500 "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
writes:
Does anyone have source on internet for pictures
of Demmick Rifles?
Im having little luck finding via web search engines.
Thanks
Sam

SAM
don steith makes dimick rifles copied from his original ---can link you
up with him if that is what you want---they are very similar to a hawken
except for the trigger guard and the keys  a outstanding offhand gun
usually of smaller caliber than a hawken---most dimicks also have brass
hardware but some were made in steel--BTW they were also a st louis
gun---they were located at 38 north main in st louis in 1859-60---there
is a nice picture on page 35 of hansons book " the plains rifle"

suggest you look up H.E. Dimick and co which was located in st louis mo
in the 1800's---they are on the tax rolls and there is some documentation
there also---a copy of the dimick barrel stamp is on page 56 of hansons
book also---

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:53:58 -0500 "WindWalker" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>>=20
writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid">
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone have source on internet for=
=20
  pictures</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of Demmick Rifles?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im having little luck finding via web =
search=20
  engines.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>SAM</DIV>
<DIV>don steith makes dimick rifles copied from his original ---can link =
you up=20
with him if that is what you want---they are very similar to a hawken =
except for=20
the trigger guard and the keys  a outstanding offhand gun usually of=20
smaller caliber than a hawken---most dimicks also have brass hardware but =
some=20
were made in steel--BTW they were also a st louis gun---they were located =
at 38=20
north main in st louis in 1859-60---there is a nice picture on page 35 of=20
hansons book " the plains rifle"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>suggest you look up H.E. Dimick and co which was located in st louis =
mo in=20
the 1800's---they are on the tax rolls and there is some documentation =
there=20
also---a copy of the dimick barrel stamp is on page 56 of hansons book=20
also---</DIV>
<DIV><BR>"HAWK"<BR>Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz =
 (C)=20
product line & "the Arkansas Underhammers"<BR>854 Glenfield Dr<BR>Palm=
=20
Harbor,   Florida   =20
34684           &=
nbsp;=20
Phone: [phone]<BR>e-mail: [e-mail]   web=20
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

----__JNP_000_66c3.4575.66d3--

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From: "Gene Hickman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MLML
Date: 13 Feb 2002 10:15:45 -0700

He has put Ad Miller on warning, and he is one of the moderators. Kicked
"Hawk" off and who knows how many others.

GENE
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:52 PM



In a message dated 2/12/02 6:11:54 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<  I shared what little I could and made many friends via MLML. However, I

too was cut off because I disagreed with Dave Kangar, the list owner. >>

Haaaaaaa......and I thought it was just my bad attitude! <G> Naw....ole
Kanger just lacks a bit in the social graces. It was a good list, but it may
well be he ends up the only one on it.

Magpie

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:23:16 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Well Sir
I see you denote I dont follow rules.
Far from the truth,
To me its more like one has to be in the click, before one
can post.
Posts turned down for a brief sentence about a product form Walmart?
Then a off line message as to "rules" and no modern guns allowed?
Then we see posts on Remington 700,s?
Naw dont cut it indeed.
Was turned down right off to join the list because of my name...
I really think was turned down due to my heritage..
A fully moderated list is just that Moderated
So as to insure the thoughts and rules of the Owner,
Think King George had those same line of thoughts.
Im sure "that" list has alot of good people on it indeed
And your statement "playing by the rules"???
There are no rules even the owner states he can change the "rules" at =
any time, and if you dont like then tough!
Seems to me to be more of a control factor, thus having power in hands =
to run off members and delete posts at will, thus giving a contol one =
apparently has no where else.
One cant bring much if anything to the table if the majority of posts =
are rejected can one?
But as i see it , if i change my thinking and take up the rules and =
beliefs of the persons so deleting my posts then to I can become one-of =
the boys? eh?
Naw.. that dont fly...
To many on that list I know, have wrote me telling me what a absolute =
(*&&%@@!!  he or someone is..
I think alot there are on the list to share the hobby, and tolerate the =
nonsense...to a point.
And if you took turn as moderator, did you not have to fall inline with =
owners wishes and thoughts?
Funny I have a whole sent file on rejected posts... some for no reason..
Myself, I think its just a whim of someone to mess with somebody....
Bet these same types of people sneak into Rondys incognito, cause i dont =
think they would walk in letting all know who they were indeed.
My thoughts on you post only..
And myself abiding totally by someone else,s rules, when others are =
apparently gettin away with alot??
Naw.. but maybe thats just why in olden days. there were "company" =
trappers... and then again there were "Freetrappers"
Your thoughts so noted.
sam
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: rtlahti=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:59 AM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic



    ----- Original Message -----=20
        From: WindWalker=20
        To: [e-mail]=20
        Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:28 PM
        Subject: MtMan-List: off topic


        Am I paranoid?
        Or is the "other list {mlml} totally moderated?
        I'm up to 17 posts being rejected
        2 for "unproper wording" i.e use of name stores.
        Just wondering, as I know not different
        Sam=20

  Sam,

  The other list is moderated. Sometimes 100%, some times selectively, =
sometimes not at all. But it does not have any flame wars and people who =
insist on being silly (read that rude or full of themselves) don't last. =
The rules are not difficult to adhere to if one is willing but if not, =
there are plenty of very knowledgeable folks and interesting folks who =
are willing to abide to make it a very informative and friendly place to =
share ideas.=20

  Not having any idea what you have tried to post to the other list I =
can only surmise that you have failed to abide by some of the simple =
rules that allow your posts to go through with automatic regularity. =
There is no particular "proper" format other than staying on topic =
(which boils down to keeping it civil and about muzzle loading) and not =
quoting any more of the message your responding to beyond what it takes =
to let folks know what your talking about. Usually 5 lines of the =
previous message is the limit. (Pretty much as I have done here)=20

  If your post goes over that, it is automatically sent back to you by =
the "mechanical" server all the messages go through. Not by a real =
person. That automatic server will weed out over quoting of the previous =
message, certain course or inflammatory words or phrases, but pays no =
attention to your spelling or sentence structure. Not all of us have =
good typing skills or good knowledge of these infernal machines and such =
is not required. What we're interested in here and on the mlml is good =
folks sharing their knowledge and ideas in a civil, helpful manner.

  In your first few messages to the list your expected to share some =
basic information about yourself so that folks have a chance to "know =
you", which is important since we are not setting across a fire from =
each other. To weed out people who have hidden agendas, the first few =
posts from any new member are reviewed by a live moderator. No posts are =
rejected that are on topic and are following the simple rules =
established.

  But the bottom line seems to be whether you care enough or have enough =
respect for the others who abide by the rules to abide by them yourself. =


  And no one is too old to learn new tricks or learn how to play by the =
rules.=20

  < I'm to old to be waiting on pups to either approve my =
context/spelling etc or disapprove...=20
  35 things must be in orger to post and wind must be from south etc. =
etc.....>

  Unless much has changed since I took my turn as a moderator on that =
list, no one is approving your context/spelling, etc. only reviewing =
that your following the rules. If you have problems with that then you =
probably shouldn't be on that list. It's of course your choice. But you =
will miss out on much good information just as the other members will =
miss out on what you have to bring to the table.

  YMOS
  Capt. Lahti'




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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well Sir</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I see you denote I dont follow =
rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Far from the truth,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To me its more like one has to be in =
the click,=20
before one</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>can post.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Posts turned down for a brief sentence =
about a=20
product form Walmart?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Then a off line message as to "rules" =
and no modern=20
guns allowed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Then we see posts on Remington =
700,s?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Naw dont cut it indeed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Was turned down right off to join the =
list because=20
of my name...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I really think was turned down due to =
my=20
heritage..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A fully moderated list is just that=20
Moderated</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So as to insure the thoughts and rules =
of the=20
Owner,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Think King George had those same line =
of=20
thoughts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im sure "that" list has alot of good =
people on it=20
indeed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And your statement "playing by the=20
rules"???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There are no rules even the owner =
states he can=20
change the "rules" at any time, and if you dont like then =
tough!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Seems to me to be more of a control =
factor, thus=20
having power in hands to run off members and delete posts at will, thus =
giving a=20
contol one apparently has no where else.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One cant bring much if anything to the =
table if the=20
majority of posts are rejected can one?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But as i see it , if i change my =
thinking and take=20
up the rules and beliefs of the persons so deleting my posts then to I =
can=20
become one-of the boys? eh?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Naw.. that dont fly...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To many on that list I know, have wrote =
me telling=20
me what a absolute (*&&%@@!!  he or someone =
is..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think alot there are on the list to =
share the=20
hobby, and tolerate the nonsense...to a point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And if you took turn as moderator, did =
you not have=20
to fall inline with owners wishes and thoughts?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Funny I have a whole sent file on =
rejected posts...=20
some for no reason..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Myself, I think its just a whim of =
someone to mess=20
with somebody....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bet these same types of people sneak =
into Rondys=20
incognito, cause i dont think they would walk in letting all know who =
they were=20
indeed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My thoughts on you post =
only..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And myself abiding totally by someone =
else,s rules,=20
when others are apparently gettin away with alot??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Naw.. but maybe thats just why in olden =
days. there=20
were "company" trappers... and then again there were =
"Freetrappers"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Your thoughts so noted.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sam</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">rtlahti</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 11:59=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: off =
topic</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>----- Original Message =
-----=20
</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
        <A title=[e-mail]=20
        href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">WindWalker</A> </DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
        title=[e-mail]=20
        =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
        </DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February =
19, 2002=20
        12:28 PM</DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: off=20
topic</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Am I paranoid?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or is the "other list {mlml} =
totally=20
        moderated?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm up to 17 posts being=20
        rejected</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2 for "unproper wording" i.e =
use of name=20
        stores.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just wondering, as I know not=20
        different</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam=20
  </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The other list is moderated. =
Sometimes 100%, some=20
  times selectively, sometimes not at all. But it does not have any =
flame wars=20
  and people who insist on being silly (read that rude or full of =
themselves)=20
  don't last. The rules are not difficult to adhere to if one is willing =
but if=20
  not, there are plenty of very knowledgeable folks and interesting =
folks who=20
  are willing to abide to make it a very informative and friendly place =
to share=20
  ideas. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not having any idea what you have =
tried to post=20
  to the other list I can only surmise that you have failed to abide by =
some of=20
  the simple rules that allow your posts to go through with automatic=20
  regularity. There is no particular "proper" format other than staying =
on topic=20
  (which boils down to keeping it civil and about muzzle loading) and =
not=20
  quoting any more of the message your responding to beyond what it =
takes to let=20
  folks know what your talking about. Usually 5 lines of the previous =
message is=20
  the limit. (Pretty much as I have done here) </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If your post goes over that, it is =
automatically=20
  sent back to you by the "mechanical" server all the messages go =
through. Not=20
  by a real person. That automatic server will weed out over quoting of =
the=20
  previous message, certain course or inflammatory words or phrases, but =
pays no=20
  attention to your spelling or sentence structure. Not all of us have =
good=20
  typing skills or good knowledge of these infernal machines and such is =
not=20
  required. What we're interested in here and on the mlml is good folks =
sharing=20
  their knowledge and ideas in a civil, helpful =
manner.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In your first few messages to the =
list your=20
  expected to share some basic information about yourself so that folks =
have a=20
  chance to "know you", which is important since we are not setting =
across a=20
  fire from each other. To weed out people who have hidden =
agendas, the=20
  first few posts from any new member are reviewed by a live =
moderator. No=20
  posts are rejected that are on topic and are following the simple =
rules=20
  established.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But the bottom line seems to be =
whether you care=20
  enough or have enough respect for the others who abide by the rules to =
abide=20
  by them yourself. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And no one is too old to learn new =
tricks or=20
  learn how to play by the rules. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>< I'm to old to be waiting on pups =
to either=20
  approve my context/spelling etc or disapprove...=20
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>35 things must be in orger to post =
and wind must=20
  be from south etc. etc.....></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>Unless much has changed since I took my turn as a moderator on =
that list,=20
  no one is approving your context/spelling, etc. only reviewing that =
your=20
  following the rules. If you have problems with that then you probably=20
  shouldn't be on that list. It's of course your choice. But you will =
miss out=20
  on much good information just as the other members will miss out on =
what you=20
  have to bring to the table.</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>YMOS<BR>Capt. Lahti'</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
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  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Demmick info
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:27:11 -0500

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Thanks will do
Got a letter from list owner other list lol
Id better straighten up is basic context
He still thinks Im someone he booted off
sometime ago, because of my name
He thinks Windwalker is a alias.
Think he may be in for a surprize in more ways then one.
Sam
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:10 AM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Demmick info




  On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:53:58 -0500 "WindWalker" =
<[e-mail]> writes:
    Does anyone have source on internet for pictures
    of Demmick Rifles?
    Im having little luck finding via web search engines.
    Thanks
    Sam

  SAM
  don steith makes dimick rifles copied from his original ---can link =
you up with him if that is what you want---they are very similar to a =
hawken except for the trigger guard and the keys  a outstanding offhand =
gun usually of smaller caliber than a hawken---most dimicks also have =
brass hardware but some were made in steel--BTW they were also a st =
louis gun---they were located at 38 north main in st louis in =
1859-60---there is a nice picture on page 35 of hansons book " the =
plains rifle"

  suggest you look up H.E. Dimick and co which was located in st louis =
mo in the 1800's---they are on the tax rolls and there is some =
documentation there also---a copy of the dimick barrel stamp is on page =
56 of hansons book also---

  "HAWK"
  Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the =
Arkansas Underhammers"
  854 Glenfield Dr
  Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
  e-mail: [e-mail]   web =
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce


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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks will do</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Got a letter from list owner other list =

lol</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Id better straighten up is basic=20
context</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He still thinks Im someone he booted=20
off</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sometime ago, because of my =
name</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>He thinks Windwalker is a =
alias.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Think he may be in for a surprize in =
more ways then=20
one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 11:10=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: =
Demmick=20
  info</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:53:58 -0500 "WindWalker" <<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>>=20
  writes:</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 =
2px solid">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone have source on internet =
for=20
    pictures</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of Demmick Rifles?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im having little luck finding via =
web search=20
    engines.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>SAM</DIV>
  <DIV>don steith makes dimick rifles copied from his original ---can =
link you=20
  up with him if that is what you want---they are very similar to a =
hawken=20
  except for the trigger guard and the keys  a outstanding offhand =
gun=20
  usually of smaller caliber than a hawken---most dimicks also have =
brass=20
  hardware but some were made in steel--BTW they were also a st louis =
gun---they=20
  were located at 38 north main in st louis in 1859-60---there is a nice =
picture=20
  on page 35 of hansons book " the plains rifle"</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV>suggest you look up H.E. Dimick and co which was located in st =
louis mo=20
  in the 1800's---they are on the tax rolls and there is some =
documentation=20
  there also---a copy of the dimick barrel stamp is on page 56 of =
hansons book=20
  also---</DIV>
  <DIV><BR>"HAWK"<BR>Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old =
Grizz =20
  (C) product line & "the Arkansas Underhammers"<BR>854 Glenfield =
Dr<BR>Palm=20
  Harbor,   Florida   =20
  =
34684           &n=
bsp;=20
  Phone: [phone]<BR>e-mail: [e-mail]   web=20
  =
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></=
HTML>

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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:45:27 -0800

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<Your thoughts so noted.>

As are yours.

Capt. Lahti'




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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><Your thoughts so =
noted.></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As are yours.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px"> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:46:53 -0500

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nuff said
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: rtlahti=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:45 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic



  <Your thoughts so noted.>

  As are yours.

  Capt. Lahti'




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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nuff said</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">rtlahti</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 12:45=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: off =
topic</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><Your thoughts so =
noted.></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As are yours.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px"> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:49:58 -0500

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"Then we see posts on Remington 700,s?"

Sam,
 That was on a Rem 700 INLINE..... Modern, but still a ML...
D

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Then we see posts on Remington=20
700,s?"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> That was on a Rem 700 INLINE..... =
Modern, but=20
still a ML...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MLML
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:54:47 -0500

> He has put Ad Miller on warning, and he is one of the moderators. Kicked
> "Hawk" off and who knows how many others.
>
> GENE

Yep.... he sure did. Said I had too many "one liners", and I took offense to
a remark he made which I took as personal, and PRIVATELY told him so. Well,
it went to the moderators and I thought it went to TOF.  It sorta went down
hill from there.  Still not real sure why Hawk was booted, but probably
because he disagreed with TOF. Hey... TOF owns the list, and if want to be
there, we gotta swallow alot and go along with him. I did because I have
learned alot, and gotten alot of laughs from some of the ideas that come
across there. Obduration (sp), ballistics, loads, etc... some of them are
pretty funny.  The point is, he lets his "Buds" make one liners all day, and
if you are not with the "in" group, you get chastised for it. At least that
is how I see it.

Regards,

Ad Miller


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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:56:54 -0500

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Sorry
Never seen one...must be something new over the years
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Double Edge Forge=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:49 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic


  "Then we see posts on Remington 700,s?"

  Sam,
   That was on a Rem 700 INLINE..... Modern, but still a ML...
  D

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Never seen one...must be something new =
over the=20
years</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Double Edge=20
  Forge</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 12:49=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: off =
topic</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Then we see posts on Remington=20
  700,s?"</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> That was on a Rem 700 =
INLINE..... Modern,=20
  but still a ML...</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:06:42 -0500

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No apology needed.... Pretty new on the market, don't like 'em, think =
states shouldn't allow them in the same catagory with bp guns, but they =
are here to stay, I fear..
D

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: WindWalker=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:56 AM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic


  Sorry
  Never seen one...must be something new over the years
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Double Edge Forge=20
    To: [e-mail]=20
    Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:49 PM
    Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic


    "Then we see posts on Remington 700,s?"

    Sam,
     That was on a Rem 700 INLINE..... Modern, but still a ML...
    D

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No apology needed.... Pretty new on the =
market,=20
don't like 'em, think states shouldn't allow them in the same catagory =
with bp=20
guns, but they are here to stay, I fear..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">WindWalker</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 11:56=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: off =
topic</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Never seen one...must be something =
new over the=20
  years</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Double Edge=20
    Forge</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    title=[e-mail]=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002=20
    12:49 PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: off=20
topic</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Then we see posts on Remington=20
    700,s?"</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> That was on a Rem 700 =
INLINE..... Modern,=20
    but still a ML...</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1B48F.47D2B9C0--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Still somewhat off topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:14:28 -0500

>A tiny tidbit of history that was once common but is largely forgotten now
>and will never be mentioned in the history books.


I would like to respond to Lanney's comment that has a LOT of sage wisdom in it.  It seems that what truly tells us about a culture or historical period is the minutia of daily living.  The commmon things and items.  That is the marrow of the society.  Ever see anyone go nuts of an "original" Bess or other firelock?

The Smithsonian employs persons whose entire livelihood is to collect and catalogue bits of American 'daily life'.  They even have Silly Putty and kids' lunchboxes catalogued and tucked away.  So those of you who think it silly of impractical to keep a record if not the actual items....maybe we need to rethink that.

Would it not be nice is someone for a few generations in the family had kept Uncle so'n'so's traps oiled as well as the trade gun he got while "out west" trapping for some company?

If it is good enough for the Smithsonian....

-C.Kent

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Heritage, blame and the nature of a freetrapper
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:37:03 -0500

"WindWalker" <[e-mail]> wrote:


>Was turned down right off to join the list because of my name..really think was turned down due to my heritage..<

Hate to chime in (nah, not really) but I think that comment is not grounded in truth.  Many folks have "handles" that are "native-sounding" whether they actually are or not.  And many people on the list have a WIDE variety of cultural, regional and racial backgrounds and operate just fine on the list.  I have made reference to my cherokee background and carried on a dialogue related to that and ML arms used by cherokee in 1700's.  Did not get moderated.  I think you will find plenty of folks who will express an interest in another's heritage and will surely find some ML info related to that historical background.

>Seems to me to be more of a control factor, thus having power in hands to run off members and delete posts at will, thus giving a contol one apparently has no where else.<<
True enuf, it appears that way at times but it does tend to get tedious and monotonous if those rules do not get enforced.  Just like in a group of people you are sitting around a fire with...you cannot just up and say what you want when you want (at least without a consequence of some sort).

>One cant bring much if anything to the table if the majority of posts are rejected can one?<<
I had a lot rejected at one time.  But to me, I was able to take my personality out of the way to learn a little and it was worth it.

>Naw.. but maybe thats just why in olden days. there were "company" trappers... and then again there were "Freetrappers"
Good thing about this country.  You don't like something...you are free to pull up stakes and move on if that is how your stick floats.

By the by, you MAY see some flareup about blaming stuff on heritage.  We each must step outside ourselves to look within ourselves for the source of a problem before we can overcome it.  We can only change ourselves anyway.  Blaming one's problem - big or small - on others' attitudes or actions is only enslaving yourselves to them.  Avoiding that is liberating yourself!!!  THAT IS THE NATURE OF A FREETRAPPER!!! That is why they were able to work independently TOGETHER!!!!

Just how my stick floats.

-C.Kent


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:09:38 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet Trolls</A>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:09:51 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet Trolls</A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:09:55 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet Trolls</A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:10:13 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet Trolls</A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:10:36 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet Trolls</A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:10:39 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet Trolls</A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:14:27 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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"AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES"

>>From your reaction, Madame(?), with good reason, I would think.. But I =
have a less charitable term in mind, which I will not use..
D

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<DIV>"AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>>From your reaction, Madame(?), =
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reason, I would think.. But I have a less charitable term in mind, which =
I will=20
not use..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: NO IT WAS NOT YOU.
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:27:15 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>DO YOU THINK I WOULD BE BASE ENOUGH TO SAY WHO IT WAS WRITING ME THOSE LETTERS.  AND NO IT WASN'T YOU.</P>
<P>WHAT IS THE PROBLEM, J.W.?</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:33:24 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet Trolls</A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:33:27 -0800

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:33:30 -0800

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:33:34 -0800

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: who is your real troll?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:38:29 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=356ce748172561b7fdcc4d7e1731c192&lat=1013628886&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:37:24 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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Mercy on the soul who opens an attachment from this person.


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: SUE RAVEN=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:33 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?










  >=20



-----
  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.



-----



------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C1B493.91ECEC20
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Mercy on the soul who opens an attachment =
from this=20
person.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>SUE RAVEN</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 1:33=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Who is =
the=20
  TROLL?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV></DIV>
  <P>> </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <A=20
  href=3D"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A>.<BR>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C1B493.91ECEC20--


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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:46:13 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01C1B49D.2F24F1A0
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Seems to be a wee tad obsessive/compulsive... Missed the morning lithium =
handout, I would guess....
D

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Paul Jones=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:37 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


  Mercy on the soul who opens an attachment from this person.


    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: SUE RAVEN=20
    To: [e-mail]=20
    Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:33 PM
    Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?










    >=20



---
    Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.



---



------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01C1B49D.2F24F1A0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Seems to be a wee tad =
obsessive/compulsive...=20
Missed the morning lithium handout, I would guess....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Paul Jones</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 2:37=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Who is =
the=20
  TROLL?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Mercy on the soul who opens an attachment =
from this=20
  person.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=[e-mail]=20
    href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">SUE RAVEN</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    title=[e-mail]=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 1:33=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Who =
is the=20
    TROLL?</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P><BR><BR></P>
    <DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV></DIV>
    <P>> </P>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
    <HR>
    Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <A=20
    href=3D"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A>.<BR>
    <P>
    <HR>

    <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01C1B49D.2F24F1A0--


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:51:27 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:51:33 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:51:36 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:51:51 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:51:57 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:52:01 -0800

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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:47:34 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C1B494.FDBF0B80
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dean Rudy,

Dennis and I (and I hope Barney, who has charms against trolls and such) =
have been chanting "out, out, damned spot" but the bloody ghost just =
keeping on churning out the same e-mail (11 times at last count, with a =
modest changes, on occasion in the "re" line, together with some mystery =
attachments on three messages that I would not open with all of the =
virus protection software known to Bill Gates).

Can you not flick the magic switch and make this person disappear.  I =
realize, that like Clint aka whoeverthehellhesheitreallywas, the same =
person, as a "new subscriber" can creep into our midst by merely opening =
up another hotmail or similar account.  But stepping on roaches can =
dampened their egg laying capacity, and even reduce if not eliminate the =
population if one is studious in applying the boot.

Just my thoughts and gentle plea.

Pablo
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: SUE RAVEN=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:10 PM
  Subject: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?






  >From: [e-mail]=20

  >Reply-To: [e-mail]=20
  >To: [e-mail]=20
  >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article=20
  >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST=20
  >=20
  >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list =
e-mails=20
  >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around =
or=20
  >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>=20
  >=20
  >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what =
you may=20
  >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on =

  >'trapping'. How ironic.=20
  >=20
  >Internet Trolls=20
  >=20
  >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and =
I think=20
  >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a =
list's)=20
  >time and energy...=20
  >=20
  >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint =
Garrett'=20
  >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and =
slammed=20
  >virtually all of us in post(s).=20
  >=20
  >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, =
it's best=20
  >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney=20

  IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT =
OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER =
TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED. =20

  YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU =
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION. =20

  I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN =
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS =
THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD =
TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER =
SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH =
A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN =
THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE =
AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  =
AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I =
HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.

  SUE RAVEN,=20

  NOT GARRET'S GHOST.=20

  THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS. =
 YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW =
OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY. =20

  AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES

  >=20
  >=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Dean Rudy,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Dennis and I (and I hope Barney, who has =
charms=20
against trolls and such) have been chanting "out, out, damned spot" but =
the=20
bloody ghost just keeping on churning out the same e-mail (11 times at =
last=20
count, with a modest changes, on occasion in the "re" line, together =
with some=20
mystery attachments on three messages that I would not open with all of =
the=20
virus protection software known to Bill Gates).</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Can you not flick the magic switch and make =
this=20
person disappear.  I realize, that like Clint aka=20
whoeverthehellhesheitreallywas, the same person, as a "new subscriber" =
can creep=20
into our midst by merely opening up another hotmail or similar =
account. =20
But stepping on roaches can dampened their egg laying capacity, and even =
reduce=20
if not eliminate the population if one is studious in applying the=20
boot.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Just my thoughts and gentle=20
plea.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Pablo</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>SUE RAVEN</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 1:10=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: Who is the =

  TROLL?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>>From: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>=20
  </P></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>To: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting =
some=20
  ardent off-list e-mails=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone =
lingering=20
  around or=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website =
to learn=20
  what you may=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown =
into a=20
  thread on=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>><A =
href=3D"http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm">Internet=20
  Trolls</A>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>>=20
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and =
TACTICAL=20
  TROLLS, and I think=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of =
wasting your=20
  (and a list's)=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>time and energy...=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the =
time=20
  'Clint Garrett'=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since =
that time,=20
  and slammed=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing =
with a=20
  Troll, it's best=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES =
OUT OF=20
  THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT =
BEAVER=20
  TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME=20
  UNGLUED.  </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU =
TURN=20
  THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS =
OR WAS=20
  AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT =
CARE.  MAYBE=20
  HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING =
THAT DAD=20
  TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER=20
  SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY =
HERE HAVE=20
  SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT =
IN THESE=20
  TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU =
HAVE AND=20
  HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T =
CARE.  AND=20
  FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS =
MAYHEM, I HOPE=20
  YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM=20
  WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET =
WOULDN'T=20
  BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <A=20
  href=3D"http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp">Click=20
  Here</A><BR>---------------------- hist_text list info:=20
  http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:13:52 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Jones,</DIV>
<DIV>    If you are capable of reading and comprehending what you have read then you understand.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Of course it helps to be able to add and subtract; deduct what is and is not.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In other words it is your beloved Barney that brought out the BITCH in me, you sir played quarterback and ran with the ball.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Know wonder my father declined to join your group after so many visitations.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:14:04 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Jones,</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>    If you are capable of reading and comprehending what you have read then you understand.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Of course it helps to be able to add and subtract; deduct what is and is not.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>In other words it is your beloved Barney that brought out the BITCH in me, you sir played quarterback and ran with the ball.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Know wonder my father declined to join your group after so many visitations.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:14:01 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Jones,</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>    If you are capable of reading and comprehending what you have read then you understand.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Of course it helps to be able to add and subtract; deduct what is and is not.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>In other words it is your beloved Barney that brought out the BITCH in me, you sir played quarterback and ran with the ball.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Know wonder my father declined to join your group after so many visitations.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life</DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:14:09 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Jones,</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>    If you are capable of reading and comprehending what you have read then you understand.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Of course it helps to be able to add and subtract; deduct what is and is not.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>In other words it is your beloved Barney that brought out the BITCH in me, you sir played quarterback and ran with the ball.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Know wonder my father declined to join your group after so many visitations.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:14:12 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Jones,</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>    If you are capable of reading and comprehending what you have read then you understand.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Of course it helps to be able to add and subtract; deduct what is and is not.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>In other words it is your beloved Barney that brought out the BITCH in me, you sir played quarterback and ran with the ball.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Know wonder my father declined to join your group after so many visitations.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:14:24 -0800

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<DIV>Mr. Jones,</DIV>
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<DIV>    If you are capable of reading and comprehending what you have read then you understand.</DIV>
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<DIV>Of course it helps to be able to add and subtract; deduct what is and is not.</DIV>
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<DIV>In other words it is your beloved Barney that brought out the BITCH in me, you sir played quarterback and ran with the ball.</DIV>
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<DIV>Know wonder my father declined to join your group after so many visitations.</DIV>
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<DIV>Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life</DIV>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? PLAY NICE !!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:18:50 -0800 (PST)


Ho the list !
 I just opened up the list to 17 emails, all nearly
the same.

I taught school for 30 years and now I know where the
"childred" got their Bickkering from !
 My old pappy always said "THE MORE YOU STIR SH___,
the MORE IT STINKS" !!!
 This list seems to have an oder  !!
 Please play nice or go sit in the corner.


=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

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From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:17:46 -0600

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  Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a =
life

  Well, Dear SUE, it appears that you did, as the attachment symbol (a =
paperclip) was on three of your stimulating repeat posts.  I have =
confirmed with others on our list that they received (and did not open =
as they were from you during the midst of a feeding frenzy of repeated =
e-mails to the list) the same message with attachments noted.

  So either you are not computer literate, you made a mistake, or you =
are not a truthful person, or, as the massive number of repeated posts =
would suggest, you are too sick to have a clue what the hell you are =
talking about.

  Paul W. Jones, J.D.

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style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
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  <DIV>
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  <DIV>Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . =
. get a=20
  life</DIV>
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Well, Dear SUE, it appears that you did, =
as the=20
  attachment symbol (a paperclip) was on three of your stimulating =
repeat=20
  posts.  I have confirmed with others on our list that they =
received (and=20
  did not open as they were from you during the midst of a feeding =
frenzy of=20
  repeated e-mails to the list) the same message with attachments=20
  noted.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>So either you are not computer literate, =
you made a=20
  mistake, or you are not a truthful person, or, as the massive number =
of=20
  repeated posts would suggest, you are too sick to have a clue what the =
hell=20
  you are talking about.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Paul W. Jones,=20
J.D.</STRONG></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:26:23 -0800

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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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From [e-mail] Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:52:58 -0800
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Precedence: bulk
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<DIV>
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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:26:30 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:26:36 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:28:15 -0800

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<P>>Reply-To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
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<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
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<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
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<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
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<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
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<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
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<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
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<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
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<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=ba63df77a7e79696aaa5d28d8ebda9e4&lat=1013632016&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
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<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
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<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
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<P>>time and energy... </P>
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<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
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<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
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<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
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<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<P><BR clear=all> </P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>
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<DIV>Mr. Jones,</DIV>
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<DIV>    If you are capable of reading and comprehending what you have read then you understand.</DIV>
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<DIV>Of course it helps to be able to add and subtract; deduct what is and is not.</DIV>
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<DIV>In other words it is your beloved Barney that brought out the BITCH in me, you sir played quarterback and ran with the ball.</DIV>
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<DIV>Know wonder my father declined to join your group after so many visitations.</DIV>
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<DIV>Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life</DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:28:20 -0800

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<P>>Reply-To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
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<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
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<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
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<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
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<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
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<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
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<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
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<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
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<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=ba63df77a7e79696aaa5d28d8ebda9e4&lat=1013632016&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
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<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
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<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
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<P>>time and energy... </P>
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<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
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<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
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<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
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<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<P><BR clear=all> </P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:28:24 -0800

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<P>From: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>Reply-To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
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<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
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<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
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<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
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<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
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<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
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<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
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<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
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<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=ba63df77a7e79696aaa5d28d8ebda9e4&lat=1013632016&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
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<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
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<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
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<P>>time and energy... </P>
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<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
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<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
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<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
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<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:29:35 -0800

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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<DIV>From: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=ba63df77a7e79696aaa5d28d8ebda9e4&lat=1013632016&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV><BR clear=all></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<DIV>Mr. Jones,</DIV>
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<DIV>    If you are capable of reading and comprehending what you have read then you understand.</DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV>Of course it helps to be able to add and subtract; deduct what is and is not.</DIV>
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<DIV>In other words it is your beloved Barney that brought out the BITCH in me, you sir played quarterback and ran with the ball.</DIV>
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<DIV>Know wonder my father declined to join your group after so many visitations.</DIV>
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<DIV>Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life</DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Attachments
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:33:51 -0500

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Pablo,
 I have recieved 8 emails with attachments from his being... So I guess =
I is a "moron" as well.... Well, I guess half the cadre of Ft Bragg =
can't be wrong..<BG>
D


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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Pablo,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I have recieved 8 emails with =
attachments=20
from his being... So I guess I is a "moron" as well.... Well, I guess =
half the=20
cadre of Ft Bragg can't be wrong..<BG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Attachments
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:34:29 -0500

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Make that 10
D

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From:=20
  To:=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 3:33 PM
  Subject: Attachments


  Pablo,
   I have recieved 8 emails with attachments from his being... So I =
guess I is a "moron" as well.... Well, I guess half the cadre of Ft =
Bragg can't be wrong..<BG>
  D


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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Make that 10</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 3:33=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Attachments</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Pablo,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I have recieved 8 emails with =
attachments=20
  from his being... So I guess I is a "moron" as well.... Well, I guess =
half the=20
  cadre of Ft Bragg can't be wrong..<BG></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>D<BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Terry Behm <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Off Topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:43:29 -0500



Geeze,  I wish this list was moderated!!!!!!           :^)


Terry Behm  "Padre Rolf"

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:49:49 -0800




>From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:17:46 -0600
>
>
>   Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life
>
>   Well, Dear SUE, it appears that you did, as the attachment symbol (a
>paperclip) was on three of your stimulating repeat posts.  I have confirmed
>with others on our list that they received (and did not open as they were
>from you during the midst of a feeding frenzy of repeated e-mails to the
>list) the same message with attachments noted.
>
>   So either you are not computer literate, you made a mistake, or you are
>not a truthful person, or, as the massive number of repeated posts would
>suggest, you are too sick to have a clue what the hell you are talking
>about.
>
>   Paul W. Jones, J.D.

ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT.

AND, YES AFTER MORON BARNEY PREFERS TO PLAY THE BABY AND ACCUSE EVERYONE OF
BEING GARRET'S GHOST, I GOT FURIOIUS.  I MEAN LABELS ARE FOR JARS NOT
PEOPLE.  READING BARNEY'S TROLL SITE, EVERYONE OF US APPLY AT TIMES.  MANY
OF YOU HAVE SAID THAT THE OTHER LIST YOU ARE DISCUSSING EDITS YOUR POSTS
BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THE GROUP OR PROVIDER.  BUT, THAT NEVER HAPPENS
HERE!  IF YOU DISAGREE, MANY OF THE INTIMIDATED(FOR WHATEVER STRANGE UNKNOWN
REASON) GANG UP ON THE OTHER.  STRANGE, IN MY COUNTRY GIRL DAYS I OFTEN
WITNESSED SEVERAL CROWS ATTACKING A HAWK.  IT SEEMS LIKE OTHERS WHOM HAVE
HAD PROBLEMS ON THIS LIST; IF YOU DISAGREE EXPECT THE ESTABLISHED TYRANTS TO
AROUSE THEIR ARMY TO CONQUER YOU.  I MEAN, GARRETT'S GHOST HAS BECOME YOUR
'SCAPEGOAT' FOR THE FEEBLE MINDED WHO FEEL INTIMADATED IN A DEBATE.  I HAVE
NEVER TRAPPED, AS I HAVE TOLD SOME OFF LIST; BUT I DON"T LET IT GET UNDER MY
SKIN OF WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT DO.

DON"T EVEN ACCUSE ME OF BEING ALL THAT WRONG.  IF YOU READ THE OPENING PAGES
TO THIS SITE, YOU SEE THE ASSUMED RULES DO NOT INCLUDE ALL THE EXTRA GABBING
I'M DOING NOW ANYMORE THAN MOST OF THE NON DISCUSSION POST WHICH HAPPEN HERE
FROM TIME TO TIME!

REGRETFULLY AND THANK GOD I'M NOT YOURS,

SUE RAVEN


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:49:52 -0800




>From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:17:46 -0600
>
>
>   Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life
>
>   Well, Dear SUE, it appears that you did, as the attachment symbol (a
>paperclip) was on three of your stimulating repeat posts.  I have confirmed
>with others on our list that they received (and did not open as they were
>from you during the midst of a feeding frenzy of repeated e-mails to the
>list) the same message with attachments noted.
>
>   So either you are not computer literate, you made a mistake, or you are
>not a truthful person, or, as the massive number of repeated posts would
>suggest, you are too sick to have a clue what the hell you are talking
>about.
>
>   Paul W. Jones, J.D.

ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT.

AND, YES AFTER MORON BARNEY PREFERS TO PLAY THE BABY AND ACCUSE EVERYONE OF
BEING GARRET'S GHOST, I GOT FURIOIUS.  I MEAN LABELS ARE FOR JARS NOT
PEOPLE.  READING BARNEY'S TROLL SITE, EVERYONE OF US APPLY AT TIMES.  MANY
OF YOU HAVE SAID THAT THE OTHER LIST YOU ARE DISCUSSING EDITS YOUR POSTS
BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THE GROUP OR PROVIDER.  BUT, THAT NEVER HAPPENS
HERE!  IF YOU DISAGREE, MANY OF THE INTIMIDATED(FOR WHATEVER STRANGE UNKNOWN
REASON) GANG UP ON THE OTHER.  STRANGE, IN MY COUNTRY GIRL DAYS I OFTEN
WITNESSED SEVERAL CROWS ATTACKING A HAWK.  IT SEEMS LIKE OTHERS WHOM HAVE
HAD PROBLEMS ON THIS LIST; IF YOU DISAGREE EXPECT THE ESTABLISHED TYRANTS TO
AROUSE THEIR ARMY TO CONQUER YOU.  I MEAN, GARRETT'S GHOST HAS BECOME YOUR
'SCAPEGOAT' FOR THE FEEBLE MINDED WHO FEEL INTIMADATED IN A DEBATE.  I HAVE
NEVER TRAPPED, AS I HAVE TOLD SOME OFF LIST; BUT I DON"T LET IT GET UNDER MY
SKIN OF WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT DO.

DON"T EVEN ACCUSE ME OF BEING ALL THAT WRONG.  IF YOU READ THE OPENING PAGES
TO THIS SITE, YOU SEE THE ASSUMED RULES DO NOT INCLUDE ALL THE EXTRA GABBING
I'M DOING NOW ANYMORE THAN MOST OF THE NON DISCUSSION POST WHICH HAPPEN HERE
FROM TIME TO TIME!

REGRETFULLY AND THANK GOD I'M NOT YOURS,

SUE RAVEN


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:49:55 -0800




>From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:17:46 -0600
>
>
>   Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life
>
>   Well, Dear SUE, it appears that you did, as the attachment symbol (a
>paperclip) was on three of your stimulating repeat posts.  I have confirmed
>with others on our list that they received (and did not open as they were
>from you during the midst of a feeding frenzy of repeated e-mails to the
>list) the same message with attachments noted.
>
>   So either you are not computer literate, you made a mistake, or you are
>not a truthful person, or, as the massive number of repeated posts would
>suggest, you are too sick to have a clue what the hell you are talking
>about.
>
>   Paul W. Jones, J.D.

ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT.

AND, YES AFTER MORON BARNEY PREFERS TO PLAY THE BABY AND ACCUSE EVERYONE OF
BEING GARRET'S GHOST, I GOT FURIOIUS.  I MEAN LABELS ARE FOR JARS NOT
PEOPLE.  READING BARNEY'S TROLL SITE, EVERYONE OF US APPLY AT TIMES.  MANY
OF YOU HAVE SAID THAT THE OTHER LIST YOU ARE DISCUSSING EDITS YOUR POSTS
BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THE GROUP OR PROVIDER.  BUT, THAT NEVER HAPPENS
HERE!  IF YOU DISAGREE, MANY OF THE INTIMIDATED(FOR WHATEVER STRANGE UNKNOWN
REASON) GANG UP ON THE OTHER.  STRANGE, IN MY COUNTRY GIRL DAYS I OFTEN
WITNESSED SEVERAL CROWS ATTACKING A HAWK.  IT SEEMS LIKE OTHERS WHOM HAVE
HAD PROBLEMS ON THIS LIST; IF YOU DISAGREE EXPECT THE ESTABLISHED TYRANTS TO
AROUSE THEIR ARMY TO CONQUER YOU.  I MEAN, GARRETT'S GHOST HAS BECOME YOUR
'SCAPEGOAT' FOR THE FEEBLE MINDED WHO FEEL INTIMADATED IN A DEBATE.  I HAVE
NEVER TRAPPED, AS I HAVE TOLD SOME OFF LIST; BUT I DON"T LET IT GET UNDER MY
SKIN OF WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT DO.

DON"T EVEN ACCUSE ME OF BEING ALL THAT WRONG.  IF YOU READ THE OPENING PAGES
TO THIS SITE, YOU SEE THE ASSUMED RULES DO NOT INCLUDE ALL THE EXTRA GABBING
I'M DOING NOW ANYMORE THAN MOST OF THE NON DISCUSSION POST WHICH HAPPEN HERE
FROM TIME TO TIME!

REGRETFULLY AND THANK GOD I'M NOT YOURS,

SUE RAVEN


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:52:52 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:49:49 -0800
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:17:46 -0600
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> Listen Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . .
<DIV></DIV>>>get a life
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> Well, Dear SUE, it appears that you did, as the attachment
<DIV></DIV>>>symbol (a
<DIV></DIV>>>paperclip) was on three of your stimulating repeat posts. I have
<DIV></DIV>>>confirmed
<DIV></DIV>>>with others on our list that they received (and did not open as
<DIV></DIV>>>they were
<DIV></DIV>>>from you during the midst of a feeding frenzy of repeated e-mails
<DIV></DIV>>>to the
<DIV></DIV>>>list) the same message with attachments noted.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> So either you are not computer literate, you made a mistake, or
<DIV></DIV>>>you are
<DIV></DIV>>>not a truthful person, or, as the massive number of repeated posts
<DIV></DIV>>>would
<DIV></DIV>>>suggest, you are too sick to have a clue what the hell you are
<DIV></DIV>>>talking
<DIV></DIV>>>about.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> Paul W. Jones, J.D.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN
<DIV></DIV>>ATTACHMENT.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>AND, YES AFTER MORON BARNEY PREFERS TO PLAY THE BABY AND ACCUSE
<DIV></DIV>>EVERYONE OF
<DIV></DIV>>BEING GARRET'S GHOST, I GOT FURIOIUS. I MEAN LABELS ARE FOR JARS
<DIV></DIV>>NOT
<DIV></DIV>>PEOPLE. READING BARNEY'S TROLL SITE, EVERYONE OF US APPLY AT TIMES.
<DIV></DIV>> MANY
<DIV></DIV>>OF YOU HAVE SAID THAT THE OTHER LIST YOU ARE DISCUSSING EDITS YOUR
<DIV></DIV>>POSTS
<DIV></DIV>>BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THE GROUP OR PROVIDER. BUT, THAT NEVER
<DIV></DIV>>HAPPENS
<DIV></DIV>>HERE! IF YOU DISAGREE, MANY OF THE INTIMIDATED(FOR WHATEVER STRANGE
<DIV></DIV>>UNKNOWN
<DIV></DIV>>REASON) GANG UP ON THE OTHER. STRANGE, IN MY COUNTRY GIRL DAYS I
<DIV></DIV>>OFTEN
<DIV></DIV>>WITNESSED SEVERAL CROWS ATTACKING A HAWK. IT SEEMS LIKE OTHERS WHOM
<DIV></DIV>>HAVE
<DIV></DIV>>HAD PROBLEMS ON THIS LIST; IF YOU DISAGREE EXPECT THE ESTABLISHED
<DIV></DIV>>TYRANTS TO
<DIV></DIV>>AROUSE THEIR ARMY TO CONQUER YOU. I MEAN, GARRETT'S GHOST HAS
<DIV></DIV>>BECOME YOUR
<DIV></DIV>>'SCAPEGOAT' FOR THE FEEBLE MINDED WHO FEEL INTIMADATED IN A DEBATE.
<DIV></DIV>>I HAVE
<DIV></DIV>>NEVER TRAPPED, AS I HAVE TOLD SOME OFF LIST; BUT I DON"T LET IT GET
<DIV></DIV>>UNDER MY
<DIV></DIV>>SKIN OF WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT DO.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>DON"T EVEN ACCUSE ME OF BEING ALL THAT WRONG. IF YOU READ THE
<DIV></DIV>>OPENING PAGES
<DIV></DIV>>TO THIS SITE, YOU SEE THE ASSUMED RULES DO NOT INCLUDE ALL THE EXTRA
<DIV></DIV>>GABBING
<DIV></DIV>>I'M DOING NOW ANYMORE THAN MOST OF THE NON DISCUSSION POST WHICH
<DIV></DIV>>HAPPEN HERE
<DIV></DIV>>FROM TIME TO TIME!
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>REGRETFULLY AND THANK GOD I'M NOT YOURS,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>SUE RAVEN
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>_________________________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
<DIV></DIV>>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info:
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:52:56 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:49:49 -0800
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:17:46 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>> Listen Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . .
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>get a life
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>> Well, Dear SUE, it appears that you did, as the attachment
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>symbol (a
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>paperclip) was on three of your stimulating repeat posts. I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>confirmed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>with others on our list that they received (and did not open as
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>they were
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>from you during the midst of a feeding frenzy of repeated e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>to the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>list) the same message with attachments noted.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>> So either you are not computer literate, you made a mistake, or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>you are
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>not a truthful person, or, as the massive number of repeated posts
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>would
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>suggest, you are too sick to have a clue what the hell you are
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>talking
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>about.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>> Paul W. Jones, J.D.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>ATTACHMENT.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>AND, YES AFTER MORON BARNEY PREFERS TO PLAY THE BABY AND ACCUSE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>EVERYONE OF
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>BEING GARRET'S GHOST, I GOT FURIOIUS. I MEAN LABELS ARE FOR JARS
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>NOT
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>PEOPLE. READING BARNEY'S TROLL SITE, EVERYONE OF US APPLY AT TIMES.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> MANY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>OF YOU HAVE SAID THAT THE OTHER LIST YOU ARE DISCUSSING EDITS YOUR
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>POSTS
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THE GROUP OR PROVIDER. BUT, THAT NEVER
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HAPPENS
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HERE! IF YOU DISAGREE, MANY OF THE INTIMIDATED(FOR WHATEVER STRANGE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>UNKNOWN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>REASON) GANG UP ON THE OTHER. STRANGE, IN MY COUNTRY GIRL DAYS I
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>OFTEN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>WITNESSED SEVERAL CROWS ATTACKING A HAWK. IT SEEMS LIKE OTHERS WHOM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HAVE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HAD PROBLEMS ON THIS LIST; IF YOU DISAGREE EXPECT THE ESTABLISHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>TYRANTS TO
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>AROUSE THEIR ARMY TO CONQUER YOU. I MEAN, GARRETT'S GHOST HAS
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>BECOME YOUR
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'SCAPEGOAT' FOR THE FEEBLE MINDED WHO FEEL INTIMADATED IN A DEBATE.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I HAVE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>NEVER TRAPPED, AS I HAVE TOLD SOME OFF LIST; BUT I DON"T LET IT GET
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>UNDER MY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>SKIN OF WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT DO.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>DON"T EVEN ACCUSE ME OF BEING ALL THAT WRONG. IF YOU READ THE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>OPENING PAGES
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>TO THIS SITE, YOU SEE THE ASSUMED RULES DO NOT INCLUDE ALL THE EXTRA
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>GABBING
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I'M DOING NOW ANYMORE THAN MOST OF THE NON DISCUSSION POST WHICH
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HAPPEN HERE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>FROM TIME TO TIME!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>REGRETFULLY AND THANK GOD I'M NOT YOURS,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>SUE RAVEN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>_________________________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:53:09 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:49:49 -0800
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:17:46 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>> Listen Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . .
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>get a life
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>> Well, Dear SUE, it appears that you did, as the attachment
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>symbol (a
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>paperclip) was on three of your stimulating repeat posts. I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>confirmed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>with others on our list that they received (and did not open as
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>they were
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>from you during the midst of a feeding frenzy of repeated e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>to the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>list) the same message with attachments noted.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>> So either you are not computer literate, you made a mistake, or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>you are
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>not a truthful person, or, as the massive number of repeated posts
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>would
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>suggest, you are too sick to have a clue what the hell you are
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>talking
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>about.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>> Paul W. Jones, J.D.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>ATTACHMENT.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>AND, YES AFTER MORON BARNEY PREFERS TO PLAY THE BABY AND ACCUSE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>EVERYONE OF
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>BEING GARRET'S GHOST, I GOT FURIOIUS. I MEAN LABELS ARE FOR JARS
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>NOT
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>PEOPLE. READING BARNEY'S TROLL SITE, EVERYONE OF US APPLY AT TIMES.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> MANY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>OF YOU HAVE SAID THAT THE OTHER LIST YOU ARE DISCUSSING EDITS YOUR
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>POSTS
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH THE GROUP OR PROVIDER. BUT, THAT NEVER
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HAPPENS
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HERE! IF YOU DISAGREE, MANY OF THE INTIMIDATED(FOR WHATEVER STRANGE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>UNKNOWN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>REASON) GANG UP ON THE OTHER. STRANGE, IN MY COUNTRY GIRL DAYS I
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>OFTEN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>WITNESSED SEVERAL CROWS ATTACKING A HAWK. IT SEEMS LIKE OTHERS WHOM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HAVE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HAD PROBLEMS ON THIS LIST; IF YOU DISAGREE EXPECT THE ESTABLISHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>TYRANTS TO
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>AROUSE THEIR ARMY TO CONQUER YOU. I MEAN, GARRETT'S GHOST HAS
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>BECOME YOUR
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'SCAPEGOAT' FOR THE FEEBLE MINDED WHO FEEL INTIMADATED IN A DEBATE.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I HAVE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>NEVER TRAPPED, AS I HAVE TOLD SOME OFF LIST; BUT I DON"T LET IT GET
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>UNDER MY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>SKIN OF WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT DO.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>DON"T EVEN ACCUSE ME OF BEING ALL THAT WRONG. IF YOU READ THE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>OPENING PAGES
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>TO THIS SITE, YOU SEE THE ASSUMED RULES DO NOT INCLUDE ALL THE EXTRA
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>GABBING
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I'M DOING NOW ANYMORE THAN MOST OF THE NON DISCUSSION POST WHICH
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>HAPPEN HERE
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>FROM TIME TO TIME!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>REGRETFULLY AND THANK GOD I'M NOT YOURS,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>SUE RAVEN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>_________________________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:58:23 -0500

WHY sis I just get 20+ emails from SUE RAVEN ??  ...and why is she yelling
at everyone???  I am confused, and I'm not even blonde!!

Ad


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:59:32 -0500

Virus attached??  If so, my latest McAfee dinna pick up on it...

Ad


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:00:58 -0500

Aye... same here... I got 8 emails from Sue with attachemnts....

Ad


  Listen  Moron, no one sent you an attachment in my name . . . get a life

  Well, Dear SUE, it appears that you did, as the attachment symbol (a
paperclip) was on three of your stimulating repeat posts.  I have confirmed
with others on our list that they received (and did not open as they were
from you during the midst of a feeding frenzy of repeated e-mails to the
list) the same message with attachments noted.

  So either you are not computer literate, you made a mistake, or you are
not a truthful person, or, as the massive number of repeated posts would
suggest, you are too sick to have a clue what the hell you are talking
about.

  Paul W. Jones, J.D.



----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:02:08 -0500

This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament but
is a NASTY virus.

Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...

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----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:57:18 -0500

I am also beginning to think the same thing.  I cannot believe I am saying
this, but can we take  this war somewhere else???  I came home today to 50
of these emails and so called attachments and they are clogging up my
storage area.  Maybe I will unsubscribe for a while and come back later
when there is a decent discussion going on?

Linda Holley
http://www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com

Terry Behm wrote:

> Geeze,  I wish this list was moderated!!!!!!           :^)
>
> Terry Behm  "Padre Rolf"
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:11:00 -0500

Before everyone starts hollering at SUE, and we get into a REAL NASTY
whizzin contest here, most of the attachments she sent were sent out by the
Virus... and it IS a virus she has. Go to www.mcafee.com and read about it.
It a new one that wants you to use MSN for pictures, etc... and when you
open it, WHAMMO!!!... you been got!!

Ad


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:11:03 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT. </FONT><BR><BR></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:11:08 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT. </FONT><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:11:12 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT. </FONT><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bryan Youngberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700

Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.

Bryan


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:29:52 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Bryan Youngberg <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
<DIV></DIV>>extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
<DIV></DIV>>time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Bryan </P>
<P> </P>
<P>You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?</P>
<P>And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar as your goat(scapegoat).</P>
<P>Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL.  THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never entice a riot!</P>
<P>THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER.  Apostle Paul says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:30:01 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Bryan Youngberg <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Bryan </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar as your goat(scapegoat).</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL.  THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never entice a riot!</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER.  Apostle Paul says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:30:05 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Bryan Youngberg <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Bryan </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar as your goat(scapegoat).</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL.  THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never entice a riot!</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER.  Apostle Paul says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: scapegoats
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:30:29 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Bryan Youngberg <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Bryan </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar as your goat(scapegoat).</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL.  THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never entice a riot!</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER.  Apostle Paul says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:36:15 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_020F_01C1B4A4.2C7B5140
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Im in a motor home, traveling.
Is there any reason to flood my inbox with your excessive posts? while I =
have  cell access and paying by minute i might ad
Sam

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: SUE RAVEN=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:30 PM
  Subject: MtMan-List: scapegoats


















  >From: Bryan Youngberg=20
  >Reply-To: [e-mail]=20
  >To: [e-mail]=20
  >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic=20
  >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700=20
  >=20
  >Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due =
to the=20
  >extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe =
another=20
  >time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks. =

  >=20
  >Bryan=20



  You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?

  And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar =
as your goat(scapegoat).

  Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for =
bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL.  THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom =
never entice a riot!

  THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER.  Apostle Paul =
says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again>



-----
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Im in a motor home, =
traveling.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is there any reason to flood my inbox =
with your=20
excessive posts? while I have  cell access and paying by =
minute i=20
might ad</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">SUE RAVEN</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 4:30=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: =
scapegoats</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV></DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>From: Bryan Youngberg <[e-mail]>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>To: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the =
threads.=20
  Due to the=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to =
the list.=20
  Maybe another=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>time I will venture out of my cave into the world of =
civilized=20
  folks.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>>Bryan </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P> </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?</P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal =
altar as=20
  your goat(scapegoat).</P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for =
bringing=20
  out the BITCH FROM HELL.  THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never =
entice a=20
  riot!</P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER.  =
Apostle Paul=20
  says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules =
again></P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <A=20
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:35:51 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:11:00 -0500
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Before everyone starts hollering at SUE, and we get into a REAL NASTY
<DIV></DIV>>whizzin contest here, most of the attachments she sent were sent out by the
<DIV></DIV>>Virus... and it IS a virus she has. Go to www.mcafee.com and read about it.
<DIV></DIV>>It a new one that wants you to use MSN for pictures, etc... and when you
<DIV></DIV>>open it, WHAMMO!!!... you been got!!
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Ad
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Gentleman,</DIV>
<DIV>   I trully know nothing about a virus other than what I'm hearing.  As I have said I did somehow send ACCIDENTLY an attachment.  WHETHER it came in through one of the e-mails you have sent to me I do not know.  But AS I said:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT. </FONT><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:35:55 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:11:00 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Before everyone starts hollering at SUE, and we get into a REAL NASTY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>whizzin contest here, most of the attachments she sent were sent out by the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Virus... and it IS a virus she has. Go to www.mcafee.com and read about it.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It a new one that wants you to use MSN for pictures, etc... and when you
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>open it, WHAMMO!!!... you been got!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Gentleman,</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>   I trully know nothing about a virus other than what I'm hearing.  As I have said I did somehow send ACCIDENTLY an attachment.  WHETHER it came in through one of the e-mails you have sent to me I do not know.  But AS I said:</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT. </FONT><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:36:01 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:11:00 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Before everyone starts hollering at SUE, and we get into a REAL NASTY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>whizzin contest here, most of the attachments she sent were sent out by the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Virus... and it IS a virus she has. Go to www.mcafee.com and read about it.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It a new one that wants you to use MSN for pictures, etc... and when you
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>open it, WHAMMO!!!... you been got!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Gentleman,</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>   I trully know nothing about a virus other than what I'm hearing.  As I have said I did somehow send ACCIDENTLY an attachment.  WHETHER it came in through one of the e-mails you have sent to me I do not know.  But AS I said:</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT. </FONT><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500

By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM


> This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament
but
> is a NASTY virus.
>
> Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...
>
> Ad
>
>
> ----------------------
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:41:25 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:41:28 -0800

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<DIV>
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<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:41:31 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:41:35 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:41:39 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: trolls=barney & paul
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:43:20 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:36:15 -0500
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Im in a motor home, traveling.
<DIV></DIV>>Is there any reason to flood my inbox with your excessive posts? while I have cell access and paying by minute i might ad
<DIV></DIV>>Sam
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: SUE RAVEN
<DIV></DIV>> To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:30 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: MtMan-List: scapegoats
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >From: Bryan Youngberg
<DIV></DIV>> >Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>> >To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
<DIV></DIV>> >extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
<DIV></DIV>> >time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Bryan
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar as your goat(scapegoat).
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL. THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never entice a riot!
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER. Apostle Paul says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: trolls=barney & paul
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:43:23 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:36:15 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Im in a motor home, traveling.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Is there any reason to flood my inbox with your excessive posts? while I have cell access and paying by minute i might ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sam
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> From: SUE RAVEN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:30 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: MtMan-List: scapegoats
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>> >From: Bryan Youngberg
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Bryan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar as your goat(scapegoat).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL. THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never entice a riot!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER. Apostle Paul says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: trolls=barney & paul
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:43:37 -0800

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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
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<P>>Reply-To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
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<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
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<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
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<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
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<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
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<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
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<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
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<P>>time and energy... </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
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<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
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<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:36:15 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Im in a motor home, traveling.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Is there any reason to flood my inbox with your excessive posts? while I have cell access and paying by minute i might ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sam
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> From: SUE RAVEN
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:30 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: MtMan-List: scapegoats
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<DIV></DIV>> >From: Bryan Youngberg
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<DIV></DIV>> >To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
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<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700
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<DIV></DIV>> >Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
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<DIV></DIV>> >extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
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<DIV></DIV>> >time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Bryan
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<DIV></DIV>> You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?
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<DIV></DIV>> And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar as your goat(scapegoat).
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<DIV></DIV>> Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL. THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never entice a riot!
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<DIV></DIV>> THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER. Apostle Paul says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again>
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<DIV></DIV>> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here
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<DIV></DIV>> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: trolls=barney & paul
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:43:48 -0800

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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
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<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
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<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
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<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
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<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
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<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
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<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
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<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
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<P>>time and energy... </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
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<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
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<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:36:15 -0500
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<DIV></DIV>>Im in a motor home, traveling.
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<DIV></DIV>>Is there any reason to flood my inbox with your excessive posts? while I have cell access and paying by minute i might ad
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<DIV></DIV>>Sam
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<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
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<DIV></DIV>> From: SUE RAVEN
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<DIV></DIV>> To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:30 PM
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<DIV></DIV>> Subject: MtMan-List: scapegoats
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<DIV></DIV>> >From: Bryan Youngberg
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<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
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<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700
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<DIV></DIV>> >Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
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<DIV></DIV>> >extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
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<DIV></DIV>> >time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Bryan
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<DIV></DIV>> You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?
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<DIV></DIV>> And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar as your goat(scapegoat).
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<DIV></DIV>> Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL. THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never entice a riot!
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<DIV></DIV>> THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER. Apostle Paul says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again>
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<DIV></DIV>> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: trolls=barney & paul
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:43:52 -0800

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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
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<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
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<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
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<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
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<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
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<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
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<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
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<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
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<P>>time and energy... </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
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<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
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<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<P><BR clear=all><BR><BR></P>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:36:15 -0500
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<DIV></DIV>>Im in a motor home, traveling.
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<DIV></DIV>>Is there any reason to flood my inbox with your excessive posts? while I have cell access and paying by minute i might ad
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<DIV></DIV>>Sam
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<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
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<DIV></DIV>> From: SUE RAVEN
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<DIV></DIV>> To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:30 PM
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<DIV></DIV>> Subject: MtMan-List: scapegoats
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<DIV></DIV>> >From: Bryan Youngberg
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<DIV></DIV>> >Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>> >To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Off Topic
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<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0700
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<DIV></DIV>> >Up until the last day or so I have enjoyed some of the threads. Due to the
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<DIV></DIV>> >extreme inbox traffic, I have sent an unsubscribe to the list. Maybe another
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<DIV></DIV>> >time I will venture out of my cave into the world of civilized folks.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Bryan
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<DIV></DIV>> You wannabees don't even get what he said do you?
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<DIV></DIV>> And yes, I'll play the martyr, to be sacrificed on the eternal altar as your goat(scapegoat).
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<DIV></DIV>> Brother BARNEY and APOSTLE PAUL do not have to take any blame for bringing out the BITCH FROM HELL. THEY ARE SUCH DEVOUT saints whom never entice a riot!
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<DIV></DIV>> THAT GAWD DAMMED BLOND BITCH IS RIGHT WHERE WE WANT HER. Apostle Paul says to Revend Barney,"Yeah, curription in the preisthood rules again>
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<DIV></DIV>> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here
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<DIV></DIV>> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:44:54 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR clear=all></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:45:18 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR clear=all></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:45:23 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<P><BR><BR></P>
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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR clear=all>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:45:53 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Reply-To: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>time and energy... </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR clear=all><BR><BR></P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:48:28 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR clear=all></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

------=_NextPart_000_63e3_4bb1_2179--

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:48:42 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Type: text/html

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
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<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR clear=all>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:51:01 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR clear=all></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:51:12 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR clear=all>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: scapegoats
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:51:20 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR clear=all>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:53:16 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament
<DIV></DIV>>but
<DIV></DIV>> > is a NASTY virus.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Ad
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > ----------------------
<DIV></DIV>> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:53:20 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>but
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > is a NASTY virus.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > ----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:53:23 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>but
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > is a NASTY virus.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > ----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:53:49 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Reply-To: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>time and energy... </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR clear=all> </P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:53:53 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Reply-To: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>time and energy... </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR clear=all> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:53:57 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Reply-To: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
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<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
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<P>>time and energy... </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
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<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
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<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<P><BR clear=all> </P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:54:01 -0800

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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>Reply-To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>To: [e-mail] </P>
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<P>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article </P>
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<P>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails </P>
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<P>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or </P>
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<P>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may </P>
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<P>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on </P>
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<P>>'trapping'. How ironic. </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=d8d6c62aab59fed3074efe812721cdc1&lat=1013636526&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288%26amp%3blat%3d1013629820%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A> </P>
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<P>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think </P>
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<P>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) </P>
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<P>>time and energy... </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' </P>
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<P>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed </P>
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<P>>virtually all of us in post(s). </P>
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<P>> </P>
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<P>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best </P>
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<P><BR clear=all> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:01:05 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_b42_5559_2e55
Content-Type: text/html

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:11:00 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Before everyone starts hollering at SUE, and we get into a REAL NASTY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>whizzin contest here, most of the attachments she sent were sent out by the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Virus... and it IS a virus she has. Go to www.mcafee.com and read about it.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It a new one that wants you to use MSN for pictures, etc... and when you
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>open it, WHAMMO!!!... you been got!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Gentleman,</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>   I trully know nothing about a virus other than what I'm hearing.  As I have said I did somehow send ACCIDENTLY an attachment.  WHETHER it came in through one of the e-mails you have sent to me I do not know.  But AS I said:</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT</FONT></DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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From [e-mail] Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:55:36 -0800
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Sender: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: [e-mail]

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: Sue and Virus
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:11:00 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Before everyone starts hollering at SUE, and we get into a REAL NASTY
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>whizzin contest here, most of the attachments she sent were sent out by the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Virus... and it IS a virus she has. Go to www.mcafee.com and read about it.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It a new one that wants you to use MSN for pictures, etc... and when you
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>open it, WHAMMO!!!... you been got!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Gentleman,</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>   I trully know nothing about a virus other than what I'm hearing.  As I have said I did somehow send ACCIDENTLY an attachment.  WHETHER it came in through one of the e-mails you have sent to me I do not know.  But AS I said:</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Courier New">ON THIS ONE, YOU ARE CORRECT. I WAS NOT AWARE THAT I SENT AN ATTACHMENT. </FONT><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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------=_NextPart_000_b42_5559_2e55--

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:02:09 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> > This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament
<DIV></DIV>>but
<DIV></DIV>> > is a NASTY virus.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > Ad
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > ----------------------
<DIV></DIV>> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: false alarm no virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:02:37 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>but
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > is a NASTY virus.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > ----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: false alarm no virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:02:41 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>but
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > is a NASTY virus.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > ----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: false alarm no virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:02:45 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>but
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > is a NASTY virus.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > ----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: false alarm no virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:24:55 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_1330_6797_472e
Content-Type: text/html

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> </DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
------=_NextPart_000_1330_6797_472e
Content-Type: message/rfc822

From [e-mail] Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:16:16 -0800
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Feb 2002 22:02:45.0586 (UTC) FILETIME=[2ABB1B20:01C1B4DA]
Sender: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: [e-mail]

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > This is a new virus that was warned about on McAfee... looks legitament
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>but
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > is a NASTY virus.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Sue .... get an up to date virus scan program... you got problems...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > Ad
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > ----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: false alarm no virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:25:00 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: false alarm no virus
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:25:04 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<DIV>>From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:42:49 -0500
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>By mistake, her attachmnet was opened here.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I went to P-Cillin done a online scan
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>It didnt find one {wheeew glad}
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:02 PM
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL? - VIRUS ATTACHED
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: what's with this
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:30:7 -0800

<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I just received 120+ e-mails, most of which where sues...What the F*ck is foing on?  All other e-mails were doubled?  One caused my program to shut down without opening anything..... the delete button works, but this is ridiculous.....hardtack.....  </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- Randal Bublitz</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV>we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,</DIV>
<DIV>we are Borrowing it from our Children</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P></P></BODY></HTML>


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: what's with this
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:44:47 -0500

>> One caused my program to shut down without opening anything.....

Told ya there was a virus....

Ad





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From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:52:11 -0500

Unsubscribe......Linda Holley


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: attachment from paul
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:06:49 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I have an arttachment on Paul's e-mail.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I do not know if I sent it or if it was accidently put there by yours trully, but it is on Paul's, not mine.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>sue</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: attachment from paul
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:06:56 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I have an arttachment on Paul's e-mail.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I do not know if I sent it or if it was accidently put there by yours trully, but it is on Paul's, not mine.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>sue</DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe
Date: 13 Feb 2002 18:38:46 EST


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unsubscribe

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT  style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2>unsubscribe</FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Blond Q4 and whatever.
Date: 13 Feb 2002 18:43:07 EST

Will you please get off the page until you can get your machine fixed!  I
have deleted ab out a hundred duplicated messages from you.  I don't have
time for this

Richard James

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Off topic - Im unsubscribing temporarily
Date: 13 Feb 2002 18:45:08 EST


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I already get a mountain of spam, and Im not interested in junk. This has
nothing to do with history and mountain men, and I dont have patience to keep
hitting delete.  Perhaps the person at the webserver can trace them and have
them thrown off.  Sorry to add another email to the list.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT  style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2>I already get a mountain of spam, and Im not interested in junk. This has nothing to do with history and mountain men, and I dont have patience to keep hitting delete.  Perhaps the person at the webserver can trace them and have them thrown off.  Sorry to add another email to the list.</FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MLML
Date: 13 Feb 2002 18:27:10 -0500

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:15:45 -0700 "Gene Hickman" <[e-mail]>
writes:
> He has put Ad Miller on warning, and he is one of the moderators.
> Kicked
> "Hawk" off and who knows how many others.
>
> GENE
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:52 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MLML

Dean  --magpie--cpt -ad-- ladies and all the rest---we need to drop this
line as nothing is being accomplished except us feinting out bad feelings
to a specific individual who cannot and will not defend himself in the
open---I need to apologize to this list for being so bitter on this
subject---lots of good people on the MLML and i have a lot of respect for
them especially some of the past moderators---all very cool headed people
and highly knowledgeable --some people write rules that can be followed
and follow them themselves and some write rules for people other than
themselves to follow and dictate your compliance to their
requirements--us discussing this in a open forum is not truly any
methodology in settlement in my estimation we should close this topic out
---I will try to best as i can settle my problems on a face to face or
direct open minded position if possible with facts and will go off-line
or direct if that is the way to keep from embarrassing someone ---If i am
wrong or I make a mistake i feel it is required for me to correct the
problem or error---I feel i should  big enough person to do that---some
people are not---I loose respect for them very quickly and treat them
accordingly ---our forum here is run by respect for each other---and
there are no need for lots of rules---small people are small people and
we should take that  into consideration---have seen many family fights
caused because of so called rules and their compliances especially if
those that dictate or specify  the rules don't feel the rules apply to
then also.  our country was founded just for these historical reasons
---compliance to rules---and the rights to speak freely--- --which i have
in the past---will in the present and also in the future.

I spent over 30 years in military service---I lived by a lot of funny
rules---one was that my word was my bond---and my character and pride in
myself was not something that was ever to be questioned---I also felt
that my knowledge base should be continuously expanded and continuously
developed ---our discussion forums are intended to accomplish this---not
fent out our personal emotions feelings as i did---for that i ask all on
the list to please forgive me---facts will stand out---facts will tell
the total story in the long run---This is not a subliminal campaign to
slam dunk anyone---I can play mind games with the best of them and have
done it while in the military---not my loss for being booted from the
MLML---I felt i was a positive respondent on all occasions and helpful
when i could add to a discussion or methodology---I felt there was no
such thing as a stupid question by someone who did not know how to do
something even if it was common knowledge to many---I wrote a many a long
dissertation because of this----I did not always agree with all the
postings but came on line in most cases in the most tactful method i
could on most occasions(GBG)---remember guys our purpose here is to
discuss history/muzzle loading and  not personalities---some people have
tact and some do not---just because you are well educated or real
knowledgeable is no sign you have tack or can express yourself in writing
easily or even  use the asset that the big maker gave you called common
sense---so lets just do that and use common sense and drop this line---as
grandad always said "if you woller with the hogs you get dirty and the
hogs love it"---I ain't wollering i am walking away from this one.

NUFF SAID---

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:47:49 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:37:24 -0600
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mercy on the soul who opens an attachment from this person.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: SUE RAVEN
<DIV></DIV>> To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:33 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Paul did you or Barney send me an attachment that I may, in my ignorance send back to the list.  That would trully make it look like I was the culprit wouldn't it?  Now, I trully don't know where the attachment came from.  So, if it wasn't you two how could I send it unless I accidently hit some key or icon.  So if this is not the case, I ask your forgiveness beforehand.  But something looks awfully fishy here.   What is going on?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue Raven</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: WHAT IS GOING ON? where did it really come from?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:53:57 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:47:49 -0800
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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Sender: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: [e-mail]

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:37:24 -0600
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mercy on the soul who opens an attachment from this person.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: SUE RAVEN
<DIV></DIV>> To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:33 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Paul did you or Barney send me an attachment that I may, in my ignorance send back to the list.  That would trully make it look like I was the culprit wouldn't it?  Now, I trully don't know where the attachment came from.  So, if it wasn't you two how could I send it unless I accidently hit some key or icon.  So if this is not the case, I ask your forgiveness beforehand.  But something looks awfully fishy here.   What is going on?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue Raven</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: block sender
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:58:06 -0600

Folks
If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page.  A box will
appear.  Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it.  Within seconds that
sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that sender
currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file.  How sweet
it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete file
automatically.   I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
Mountain Man List posts.  Try it.  Saves my computer a lot of "delete" key
wear and tear.
Lanney Ratcliff


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MLML
Date: 13 Feb 2002 18:57:32 -0500

I agree Hawk.... sorry... To quote... "nuff said"... <grins>

Regards,

Ad



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:05:25 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: "History List" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: block sender
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:58:06 -0600
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks
<DIV></DIV>>If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
<DIV></DIV>>isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
<DIV></DIV>>click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page. A box will
<DIV></DIV>>appear. Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it. Within seconds that
<DIV></DIV>>sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that sender
<DIV></DIV>>currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file. How sweet
<DIV></DIV>>it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete file
<DIV></DIV>>automatically. I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
<DIV></DIV>>from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
<DIV></DIV>>Mountain Man List posts. Try it. Saves my computer a lot of "delete" key
<DIV></DIV>>wear and tear.
<DIV></DIV>>Lanney Ratcliff
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And Sue is the only one to blame.  Nobody accused her of being this ghost?  Nobody tried to tick her off?  Maybe there is a scandal here that others(the true perpetrators want no one to really see?   After all, how would the rest of you take it if verbally attacked an harrassed as I was in the posts from Barney and Paul?</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:05:56 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "History List" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: block sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:58:06 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page. A box will
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>appear. Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it. Within seconds that
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file. How sweet
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete file
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>automatically. I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Mountain Man List posts. Try it. Saves my computer a lot of "delete" key
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>wear and tear.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Lanney Ratcliff
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>And Sue is the only one to blame.  Nobody accused her of being this ghost?  Nobody tried to tick her off?  Maybe there is a scandal here that others(the true perpetrators want no one to really see?   After all, how would the rest of you take it if verbally attacked an harrassed as I was in the posts from Barney and Paul?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue Raven</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: block sender
Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:32:30 -0800 (PST)


--- Lanney, Do you think that will work on Yahoo ?
 I only have the list on yahoo and a few personal
messages.
 And use Outlook for my main mail.
 grn

=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: block sender
Date: 13 Feb 2002 18:44:57 -0600

=)  I'm not.   Too many wierd vulnerabilities in Outlook for my blood.
Eudora doesn't appear to have such a simple solution, so I'm blocking the
originating IP at my firewall.  Takes longer, but I don't even see them in
my trash can.   Be a lot easier if the list just unsubscribed this
particular troll.

At 05:58 PM 2/13/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Folks
>If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
>isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
>click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page.  A box will
>appear.  Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it.  Within seconds that
>sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that sender
>currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file.  How sweet
>it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete file
>automatically.   I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
>from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
>Mountain Man List posts.  Try it.  Saves my computer a lot of "delete" key
>wear and tear.
>Lanney Ratcliff
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: block sender
Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:59:33 -0800


Mine was a bit different...(earthlink).... I picked one of offending
e-mails from my trash (as I already deleted them all  -tons of them) I went
to Message, then selected Junk, it asked me if I wanted to trash this
e-mail and add to block list, I said yes...hope it works.   hardtack

> --- Lanney, Do you think that will work on Yahoo ?
>  I only have the list on yahoo and a few personal
> messages.
>  And use Outlook for my main mail.
>  grn
>
> =====
> George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
> Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
>
> __________________________________________________
>

--- Randal Bublitz
--- [e-mail]
we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
 we are Borrowing


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600

Dear Sue,

You have made a great nuisance of yourself.  You have punished everyone on
the list to satisfy your snit.  I will not argue with you, I have taken action.

I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have notified
library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
behavior and abuse of their systems.

I have been assured that action will be taken.

Did you think you were invisible?

I know who you are.

Have a nice day.

Now go away.

John...


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:15:36 EST

Who out there shoots a smoothbore...esp. a Tulle fusil-de-chasse...as part of
their gear?

-C.KEnt

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:22:29 -0600

Way to go John!!!  You have a jug coming.  What brand likker do you like?
Don't tell me you don't drink....I've read you 2:00am posts.
see you in May
YF&B
Lanney

--- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 6:50 PM


> Dear Sue,
>
> You have made a great nuisance of yourself.  You have punished everyone on
> the list to satisfy your snit.  I will not argue with you, I have taken
action.
>
> I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have notified
> library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
> behavior and abuse of their systems.
>
> I have been assured that action will be taken.
>
> Did you think you were invisible?
>
> I know who you are.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> Now go away.
>
> John...
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:18:36 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
<DIV></DIV>>notified
<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>John...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:18:42 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>notified
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:18:45 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>notified
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:18:49 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>notified
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:18:52 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
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<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
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<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
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<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
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<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
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<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
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<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
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<DIV></DIV>>notified
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<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
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<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
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<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
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<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
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<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
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<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
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<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
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<DIV></DIV>>John...
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<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
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<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
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<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
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<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:18:55 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
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<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
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<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
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<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
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<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
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<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
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<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
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<DIV></DIV>>notified
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<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
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<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
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<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
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<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
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<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
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<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
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<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
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<DIV></DIV>>John...
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<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
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<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
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<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
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<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:18:59 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
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<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
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<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
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<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
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<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
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<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
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<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
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<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
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<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
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<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
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From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:20:08 -0800 (PST)

Way to go John!  Wish I knew enough about computers to
have done the same!  Praise the Lord someone knows
what's what.  Take care, Pard.  Dog and Grace
--- John Kramer <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Dear Sue,
>
> You have made a great nuisance of yourself.  You
> have punished everyone on
> the list to satisfy your snit.  I will not argue
> with you, I have taken action.
>
> I have traced the address from which you've been
> posting and have notified
> library officials at The University of Nevada Reno
> of your psychotic
> behavior and abuse of their systems.
>
> I have been assured that action will be taken.
>
> Did you think you were invisible?
>
> I know who you are.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> Now go away.
>
> John...
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:23:16 -0600

I shoot an English Fowler, 20 ga.   Can't help with the tulle though.

Todd


At 08:15 PM 2/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Who out there shoots a smoothbore...esp. a Tulle fusil-de-chasse...as part
of
>their gear?
>
>-C.KEnt
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: choices
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:25:34 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Another choice
Go message rules, set features for any mail recieved from that one =
person, forward it back to them direct


------=_NextPart_000_035C_01C1B4C4.35282E60
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Another choice</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Go message rules, set features for any =
mail=20
recieved from that one person, forward it back to them =
direct</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_035C_01C1B4C4.35282E60--


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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Good job John
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:34:41 -0800

<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Thank You John.....My blocking works, my junk folder is filling up with posts from the offensive one.  hardtack</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- Randal Bublitz</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV>we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,</DIV>
<DIV>we are Borrowing it from our Children</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P></P></BODY></HTML>


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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:36:19 -0800


Kent,  I have a couple of smoothies, with a pistol to match.  They are the
English Trade Gun variety though.  Any particular questions?   hardtack

>
> Who out there shoots a smoothbore...esp. a Tulle fusil-de-chasse...as
part of
> their gear?
>
> -C.KEnt
>

--- Randal Bublitz
--- [e-mail]
we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
 we are Borrowing it from our


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:19 -0500

unsubscribe


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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:33:21 -0600

I've mostly carried a cut down Charleville since the '70's.

John....


At 07:15 PM 2/13/02, you wrote:
>Who out there shoots a smoothbore...esp. a Tulle fusil-de-chasse...as part of
>their gear?
>
>-C.KEnt
>
>----------------------


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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:33:32 -0600

Old Rebel Yell, of course.  Dog knows.  This May for certain.

John...


At 07:22 PM 2/13/02, you wrote:
>Way to go John!!!  You have a jug coming.  What brand likker do you like?
>Don't tell me you don't drink....I've read you 2:00am posts.
>see you in May
>YF&B
>Lanney

________________________________
Remember August 1, 1794!!!







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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:54:07 -0500

THANK YOU JOHN!!!!! :))

Ad

> I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have notified
> library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
> behavior and abuse of their systems.
Now go away.
>
> John...



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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:59:17 -0500

Sue dear... what ticked everyone off was the incessent number of posts you
sent.  One would have sufficed just fine... not over 100 that I have deleted
from you.  I took Lanneys advice and blocked emails from you... sorry....

Regards,

Ad


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: unsubscribe
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:00:03 -0500

Linda dear... you have to go to the web site listed at the bottom to
unsubscribe...

Tex


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From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:05:31 -0600

Hey John, you had mentioned to me off list that you used to get out to Fort
Osage.   Have you been out there recently?   I've been hitting some of the
events there, and the folks out there seem like good people.    Had some
good chow at Christmas, and some good cheer in the blockhouse afterwards.

Todd

At 07:33 PM 2/13/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Old Rebel Yell, of course.  Dog knows.  This May for certain.
>
>John...
>
>
>At 07:22 PM 2/13/02, you wrote:
>>Way to go John!!!  You have a jug coming.  What brand likker do you like?
>>Don't tell me you don't drink....I've read you 2:00am posts.
>>see you in May
>>YF&B
>>Lanney
>
>________________________________
>Remember August 1, 1794!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:09:07 -0800

By Damn John, the drinks are on me in May ! ! ! ! !   I'll fetch up a jug of
fine sippin Tequila !
See ya there !
Pendleton
" Youth, is wasted on the young ! "


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marc Stewart <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: (no subject)
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:07:23 -0500

unsubscribe


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:14:44 -0500

I do... whatcha need?

Regards,

Ad

> Who out there shoots a smoothbore...esp. a Tulle fusil-de-chasse...as part
of
> their gear?
>
> -C.KEnt



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Sue and Virus and Flame war
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:26:20 EST


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In a message dated 2/13, [e-mail] writes:

<< Before everyone starts hollering at SUE, and we get into a REAL NASTY
whizzin contest here, most of the attachments she sent were sent out by the
Virus...------(stuff deleted)----->>

Except that Sue spent the past few weeks acting as though all was forgotten
and she was "One of the List" and then out of the blue started this new flame
war over a post made almost a month ago. And conveniently started it with a
virus on her machine that is so sophisticated that it not only sends messages
multiple times but changes the Subject line as well. Interesting.

I have sat idly by and not weighed in on all this B.S. until now but just
couldn't resist any more. There is no doubt about who the problem is and what
their intentions are, but it bothers me that they are winning as we have seen
quite a few messages referring to leaving the list.  This is most unfortunate
as this means that the Troll wins. I suspect we would all gain here if we
refer to the post made a month or so back about "Just ignoring the troll and
not responding" as at some point this would all become very boring for said
troll and they would go look for someone else to bother.

Enough said
Longshot

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 2/13, [e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR><< <I>Before everyone starts hollering at SUE, and we get into a REAL NASTY
<BR>whizzin contest here, most of the attachments she sent were sent out by the
<BR>Virus...</I>------(stuff deleted)----->>
<BR>
<BR>Except that Sue spent the past few weeks acting as though all was forgotten and she was "One of the List" and then out of the blue started this new flame war over a post made almost a month ago. And conveniently started it with a virus on her machine that is so sophisticated that it not only sends messages multiple times but changes the Subject line as well. Interesting.
<BR>
<BR>I have sat idly by and not weighed in on all this B.S. until now but just couldn't resist any more. There is no doubt about who the problem is and what their intentions are, but it bothers me that they are winning as we have seen quite a few messages referring to leaving the list.  This is most unfortunate as this means that the Troll wins. I suspect we would all gain here if we refer to the post made a month or so back about "Just ignoring the troll and not responding" as at some point this would all become very boring for said troll and they would go look for someone else to bother.
<BR>
<BR>Enough said
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=5 FACE="BATAVIA" LANG="0">L</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=4 FACE="BATAVIA" LANG="0">ongshot</FONT></HTML>

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From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: block sender
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:27:40 -0500

For Netscape users:

EDIT
MESSAGE FILTERS
NEW
in first pull down select SENDER
in second pull down select CONTAINS
in third box enter any part of the name you wish ("RAVEN" works)
in third pull down select DELETE
click OK
click OK

and this obnoxious twit is history!

Tom




Randal Bublitz wrote:
>
> Mine was a bit different...(earthlink).... I picked one of offending
> e-mails from my trash (as I already deleted them all  -tons of them) I went
> to Message, then selected Junk, it asked me if I wanted to trash this
> e-mail and add to block list, I said yes...hope it works.   hardtack
>
> > --- Lanney, Do you think that will work on Yahoo ?
>
> >  I only have the list on yahoo and a few personal
>
> > messages.
>
> >  And use Outlook for my main mail.
>
> >  grn
>
> >
>
> > =====
>
> > George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
>
> > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
>
> >
>
> > __________________________________________________
>
> >
>
> --- Randal Bublitz
> --- [e-mail]
> we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
>  we are Borrowing
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: choices
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:39:48 -0500

Sure was nice not to get 28 messages all at once from Sue.... Did the block
and return...

Thanks

Ad



Another choice
Go message rules, set features for any mail recieved from that one person,
forward it back to them direct




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Sue and Virus and Flame war
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:39:52 -0600

<html>
Well said.   I never quite understood the mentality of people
who do this, but trolls screw up a lot of lists and sites.
Good people get irked having to wade through piles of tripe and drop
off.   I have a slow connection based on where I live, so it's
a pain in the butt to download 186 messages.  =3D)   Best
advice is to killfile the sender, and ignore them.   Best thing
is to treat them like the spam that shows up in your inbox:  ignore,
delete and DO NOT REPLY!     <br>
<br>
Nuff a this nonsense.   I'm gonna go work on a new strap for my
fowler's bag.<br>
<br>
Todd<br>
<br>
At 09:26 PM 2/13/02 -0500, you wrote: <br>
<font size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite>In a message dated 2/13,
[e-mail] writes: <br>
<br>
<< <i>Before everyone starts hollering at SUE, and we get into a
REAL NASTY <br>
whizzin contest here, most of the attachments she sent were sent out by
the <br>
Virus...</i>------(stuff deleted)----->> <br>
<br>
Except that Sue spent the past few weeks acting as though all was
forgotten and she was "One of the List" and then out of the
blue started this new flame war over a post made almost a month ago. And
conveniently started it with a virus on her machine that is so
sophisticated that it not only sends messages multiple times but changes
the Subject line as well. Interesting. <br>
<br>
I have sat idly by and not weighed in on all this B.S. until now but just
couldn't resist any more. There is no doubt about who the problem is and
what their intentions are, but it bothers me that they are winning as we
have seen quite a few messages referring to leaving the list. =A0This is
most unfortunate as this means that the Troll wins. I suspect we would
all gain here if we refer to the post made a month or so back about
"Just ignoring the troll and not responding" as at some point
this would all become very boring for said troll and they would go look
for someone else to bother. <br>
<br>
Enough said <br>
</font><font face=3D"BATAVIA" size=3D5>L</font><font=
 size=3D4>ongshot</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D3>
</blockquote><br>
</font>
<BR>
</html>

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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Was SUE - now Bag Strap
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:02:57 -0500

I've got a nice possible bag that I and putting a woven "burlap" strap on
and getting rid of a thin leather strap. Picked up the burlap strap at
Alafia.... it's about 2" wide and fairly thick.  I got the leather end
pieces cut out, and the brass rectangle rings to attach it with.  Just gotta
find time to get it finished.  One of those NASTY lil "V" words snuck out of
somewhere it was living in my computer and literally killed it last Sunday.
It sure is a bear getting everything back on a new computer... :((

Regards,

Ad


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:03:19 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=1eeae60e08496883205e56453d5668de&lat=1013655663&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d356ce748172561b7fdcc4d7e1731c192%26amp%3blat%3d1013628886%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm" target=_blank><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>
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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:03:42 -0800

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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=1eeae60e08496883205e56453d5668de&lat=1013655663&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d356ce748172561b7fdcc4d7e1731c192%26amp%3blat%3d1013628886%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm" target=_blank><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:06:23 -0700

> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3096475583_61927_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Sue,
Bite Me!
Ole
----------






>From: John Kramer
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
>
>Dear Sue,
>
>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
>everyone on
>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
>taken action.
>
>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
>notified
>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
>behavior and abuse of their systems.
>
>I have been assured that action will be taken.
>
>Did you think you were invisible?
>
>I know who you are.
>
>Have a nice day.
>
>Now go away.
>
>John...

JOHN,

YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT
NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH
THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.
AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF
TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE
AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU
BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SUE RAVEN




Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
Sue,<BR>
Bite Me!<BR>
Ole<BR>
----------<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From: John Kramer <BR>
>Reply-To: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></FO=
NT> <BR>
>To: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT> <B=
R>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!! <BR>
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600 <BR>
> <BR>
>Dear Sue, <BR>
> <BR>
>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished <BR>
>everyone on <BR>
>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have <BR>
>taken action. <BR>
> <BR>
>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have <BR>
>notified <BR>
>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic <B=
R>
>behavior and abuse of their systems. <BR>
> <BR>
>I have been assured that action will be taken. <BR>
> <BR>
>Did you think you were invisible? <BR>
> <BR>
>I know who you are. <BR>
> <BR>
>Have a nice day. <BR>
> <BR>
>Now go away. <BR>
> <BR>
>John... <BR>
 <BR>
JOHN, <BR>
 <BR>
YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.=
  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE =
HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.<BR>
AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE O=
F TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PL=
AY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!=
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>
 <BR>
SUE RAVEN<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=3DCENTER SIZE=3D"3" WIDTH=3D"100%"><BR>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://e=
xplorer.msn.com</U></FONT> <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://go.msn.com/bq=
l/hmtag_etl_EN.asp</U></FONT>> .<BR>
---------------------- hist_text list info: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http:/=
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</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:06:52 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_17b6_3f63_6d65
Content-Type: text/html

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>>From: "Lanney Ratcliff"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "History List"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: block sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:58:06 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page. A box will
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>appear. Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it. Within seconds that
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file. How sweet
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete file
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>automatically. I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Mountain Man List posts. Try it. Saves my computer a lot of "delete" key
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>wear and tear.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Lanney Ratcliff
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>And Sue is the only one to blame.  Nobody accused her of being this ghost?  Nobody tried to tick her off?  Maybe there is a scandal here that others(the true perpetrators want no one to really see?   After all, how would the rest of you take it if verbally attacked an harrassed as I was in the posts from Barney and Paul?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue Raven</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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Content-Type: message/rfc822

From [e-mail] Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:07:47 -0800
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X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Feb 2002 00:05:56.0513 (UTC) FILETIME=[60111110:01C1B4EB]
Sender: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: [e-mail]

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "History List" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: block sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:58:06 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page. A box will
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>appear. Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it. Within seconds that
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file. How sweet
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete file
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>automatically. I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Mountain Man List posts. Try it. Saves my computer a lot of "delete" key
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>wear and tear.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Lanney Ratcliff
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>And Sue is the only one to blame.  Nobody accused her of being this ghost?  Nobody tried to tick her off?  Maybe there is a scandal here that others(the true perpetrators want no one to really see?   After all, how would the rest of you take it if verbally attacked an harrassed as I was in the posts from Barney and Paul?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue Raven</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:08:57 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_17f5_40fb_120a
Content-Type: text/html

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>>From: John Kramer<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>notified
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<P><BR><BR></P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>notified
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John...
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:09:18 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>>From: John Kramer<[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>notified
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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From [e-mail] Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:21:47 -0800
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<P><BR><BR></P>
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<P><BR><BR></P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>notified
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:09:42 -0800

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<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>>From: John Kramer<[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
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<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
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<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
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<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
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<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
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<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
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<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
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<DIV></DIV>>notified
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<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
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<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
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<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
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<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
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<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
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<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
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<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
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<DIV></DIV>>John...
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<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
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<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
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<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
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<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
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<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
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<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
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<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
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<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
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<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
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<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
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<DIV></DIV>>notified
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<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
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<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
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<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
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<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
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<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>
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<DIV></DIV>>John...
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<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
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<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
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<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
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<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:13:25 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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strange,
using neotrace and running a ping test, shows  mailer online

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: SUE RAVEN=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:03 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?






  >Reply-To: [e-mail]=20
  >To: [e-mail]=20
  >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article=20
  >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST=20
  >=20
  >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list =
e-mails=20
  >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around =
or=20
  >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>=20
  >=20
  >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what =
you may=20
  >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on =

  >'trapping'. How ironic.=20
  >=20
  >Internet Trolls=20
  >=20
  >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and =
I think=20
  >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a =
list's)=20
  >time and energy...=20
  >=20
  >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint =
Garrett'=20
  >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and =
slammed=20
  >virtually all of us in post(s).=20
  >=20
  >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, =
it's best=20
  >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney=20

  IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT =
OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER =
TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED. =20

  YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU =
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION. =20

  I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN =
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS =
THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD =
TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER =
SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH =
A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN =
THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE =
AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  =
AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I =
HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.

  SUE RAVEN,=20

  NOT GARRET'S GHOST.=20

  THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS. =
 YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW =
OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY. =20

  AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



-----
  MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click =
Here


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>strange,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>using neotrace and running a ping test, =
shows =20
mailer online</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">SUE RAVEN</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 10:03=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Who is =
the=20
  TROLL?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
  <DIV>>Reply-To: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
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  <DIV></DIV>>To: <A=20
  =
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</A>=20
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  <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article=20
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  <DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST=20
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  <DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting =
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  <DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone =
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  <DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>=20
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  <P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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  <P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES =
OUT OF=20
  THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT =
BEAVER=20
  TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME=20
  UNGLUED.  </P>
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  <P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU =
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  THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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  <P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR =
WAS AN=20
  AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  =
MAYBE HE=20
  WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING =
THAT DAD=20
  TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER=20
  SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY =
HERE HAVE=20
  SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT =
IN THESE=20
  TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU =
HAVE AND=20
  HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T =
CARE.  AND=20
  FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I =
HOPE YOU=20
  ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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  <P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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  <P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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  <P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM=20
  WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET =
WOULDN'T=20
  BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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  <P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <A=20
  href=3D"http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp">Click=20
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------=_NextPart_000_03B4_01C1B4D3.464DFDA0--


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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:13:03 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:51:06 -0800
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>From: "Paul Jones"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>>To:<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:36:37 -0600
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>As to this most recent post about the article in Book of
<DIV></DIV>>>Buckskinning VIII,
<DIV></DIV>>>Sue, is your brother saying, when he acknowledges that the "data is
<DIV></DIV>>>pretty
<DIV></DIV>>>good" but further notes that he doubts if any large adults could be
<DIV></DIV>>>taken
<DIV></DIV>>>by these methods," that if the fur trappers, during the rocky
<DIV></DIV>>>mountain fur
<DIV></DIV>>>trapping era, had used traps like the reproduction traps described
<DIV></DIV>>>in the
<DIV></DIV>>>article, and the general methods of trapping discussed in the
<DIV></DIV>>>article, that
<DIV></DIV>>>they could not (or did not, as a general rule) take large adult
<DIV></DIV>>>beaver?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mr. Jones,
<DIV></DIV>> Eric said the only flaws he found in the article were that he
<DIV></DIV>>missed two
<DIV></DIV>>methods of trapping beaver from the old methods.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>1. There was a pole method that a trap chain was linked to.
<DIV></DIV>>Something
<DIV></DIV>>about the dead pole being stuck deep in the mud of the bottom of the
<DIV></DIV>>stream
<DIV></DIV>>in 4-6 feet of water. Or, he said the pole was tied at both ends to
<DIV></DIV>>stakes.
<DIV></DIV>> At the anchor stake the pole was tied at the bottom, and at the
<DIV></DIV>>other end
<DIV></DIV>>near the bank in shallow water. the pole had the knots on it where
<DIV></DIV>>the
<DIV></DIV>>trapper trimmed the limbs off. The limbs were aimed toward the
<DIV></DIV>>water or
<DIV></DIV>>rather, into the deep water. Eric says the beaver would jump for
<DIV></DIV>>deep water
<DIV></DIV>>pulling the trap chain RING or TIED WIRE down the pole. The knots
<DIV></DIV>>stopped
<DIV></DIV>>the beaver from pulling the trap back up. If you understand me, the
<DIV></DIV>>small
<DIV></DIV>>end of the pole is aimed toward the depth of the water. However, he
<DIV></DIV>>pointed
<DIV></DIV>>out, since beaver will not usually chew deadwood; yet the
<DIV></DIV>>construction of
<DIV></DIV>>such a set is tedious and it has to be very sturdy. He says that is
<DIV></DIV>>why it
<DIV></DIV>>is seldom used today; too much work and sometimes it is unstable.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>2. The earlier post about the stone drag used in the Ozark waters
<DIV></DIV>>parallels
<DIV></DIV>>the other technique. Eric claims that the Washington Irving
<DIV></DIV>>document I
<DIV></DIV>>posted a few days ago hints at the type of set. As he won't let me
<DIV></DIV>>come
<DIV></DIV>>right out and tell of this method. He said 'Give them trappers a
<DIV></DIV>>riddle'. He
<DIV></DIV>>claims that an old time trapping author, Stanley Hawbaker published
<DIV></DIV>>this
<DIV></DIV>>unique method used long ago in the northeast. However, Eric got it
<DIV></DIV>>from an
<DIV></DIV>>Indian he once trapped with long before he read the book. This is
<DIV></DIV>>not much
<DIV></DIV>>of a riddle, but for the adept trapper it is hinted at strongly in
<DIV></DIV>>this
<DIV></DIV>>paragraph. He said this method was so foolproof, that seldom would
<DIV></DIV>>a
<DIV></DIV>>trapper lose a beaver.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Eric says trapping techniques were like the secretive beaver
<DIV></DIV>>medicine; you
<DIV></DIV>>seldom told a soul!
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Eric's funny, in that he won't tell anyone where he hunts either.
<DIV></DIV>> Says
<DIV></DIV>>when you tell one eleven others tell someone else. Although he
<DIV></DIV>>doesn't feel
<DIV></DIV>>that the mountaineer types are a threat to his bounty trapping. He
<DIV></DIV>>just
<DIV></DIV>>says what ever we write is preserved for everyone to see. But he
<DIV></DIV>>did allow
<DIV></DIV>>me to give a few hints for the 'diligent hardcores'.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>I want to fully understand his position as regards the methods
<DIV></DIV>>>cited in the
<DIV></DIV>>>article, as I gather that he has a great deal of hands-on
<DIV></DIV>>>experience
<DIV></DIV>>>actually trapping beaver over the years.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>As I will be making his copy tomorrow, should you wish to have a
<DIV></DIV>>>copy to
<DIV></DIV>>>review, since I can make two copies about as easily as I can make
<DIV></DIV>>>one,
<DIV></DIV>>>please advise and I will send it to you immediately.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mr. Jones, I do not want to seem ungrateful or rude on your offer.
<DIV></DIV>>But I
<DIV></DIV>>have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the
<DIV></DIV>>list. I
<DIV></DIV>>really do not want anyone lingering around or knocking at my door,
<DIV></DIV>>or
<DIV></DIV>>whatever. I totally understand your enthusiasm for your
<DIV></DIV>>sport/hobby; but I
<DIV></DIV>>need my privacy. The authors and titles of the documents in the
<DIV></DIV>>bibliography would be most helpful, if you wanted to off-list e-mail
<DIV></DIV>>them.
<DIV></DIV>>Again, I am grateful for the offer.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Respectfully,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Sue Raven
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>_________________________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.hotmail.com
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info:
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:13:18 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:51:06 -0800
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>From: "Paul Jones"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>>To:<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:36:37 -0600
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>As to this most recent post about the article in Book of
<DIV></DIV>>>Buckskinning VIII,
<DIV></DIV>>>Sue, is your brother saying, when he acknowledges that the "data is
<DIV></DIV>>>pretty
<DIV></DIV>>>good" but further notes that he doubts if any large adults could be
<DIV></DIV>>>taken
<DIV></DIV>>>by these methods," that if the fur trappers, during the rocky
<DIV></DIV>>>mountain fur
<DIV></DIV>>>trapping era, had used traps like the reproduction traps described
<DIV></DIV>>>in the
<DIV></DIV>>>article, and the general methods of trapping discussed in the
<DIV></DIV>>>article, that
<DIV></DIV>>>they could not (or did not, as a general rule) take large adult
<DIV></DIV>>>beaver?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mr. Jones,
<DIV></DIV>> Eric said the only flaws he found in the article were that he
<DIV></DIV>>missed two
<DIV></DIV>>methods of trapping beaver from the old methods.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>1. There was a pole method that a trap chain was linked to.
<DIV></DIV>>Something
<DIV></DIV>>about the dead pole being stuck deep in the mud of the bottom of the
<DIV></DIV>>stream
<DIV></DIV>>in 4-6 feet of water. Or, he said the pole was tied at both ends to
<DIV></DIV>>stakes.
<DIV></DIV>> At the anchor stake the pole was tied at the bottom, and at the
<DIV></DIV>>other end
<DIV></DIV>>near the bank in shallow water. the pole had the knots on it where
<DIV></DIV>>the
<DIV></DIV>>trapper trimmed the limbs off. The limbs were aimed toward the
<DIV></DIV>>water or
<DIV></DIV>>rather, into the deep water. Eric says the beaver would jump for
<DIV></DIV>>deep water
<DIV></DIV>>pulling the trap chain RING or TIED WIRE down the pole. The knots
<DIV></DIV>>stopped
<DIV></DIV>>the beaver from pulling the trap back up. If you understand me, the
<DIV></DIV>>small
<DIV></DIV>>end of the pole is aimed toward the depth of the water. However, he
<DIV></DIV>>pointed
<DIV></DIV>>out, since beaver will not usually chew deadwood; yet the
<DIV></DIV>>construction of
<DIV></DIV>>such a set is tedious and it has to be very sturdy. He says that is
<DIV></DIV>>why it
<DIV></DIV>>is seldom used today; too much work and sometimes it is unstable.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>2. The earlier post about the stone drag used in the Ozark waters
<DIV></DIV>>parallels
<DIV></DIV>>the other technique. Eric claims that the Washington Irving
<DIV></DIV>>document I
<DIV></DIV>>posted a few days ago hints at the type of set. As he won't let me
<DIV></DIV>>come
<DIV></DIV>>right out and tell of this method. He said 'Give them trappers a
<DIV></DIV>>riddle'. He
<DIV></DIV>>claims that an old time trapping author, Stanley Hawbaker published
<DIV></DIV>>this
<DIV></DIV>>unique method used long ago in the northeast. However, Eric got it
<DIV></DIV>>from an
<DIV></DIV>>Indian he once trapped with long before he read the book. This is
<DIV></DIV>>not much
<DIV></DIV>>of a riddle, but for the adept trapper it is hinted at strongly in
<DIV></DIV>>this
<DIV></DIV>>paragraph. He said this method was so foolproof, that seldom would
<DIV></DIV>>a
<DIV></DIV>>trapper lose a beaver.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Eric says trapping techniques were like the secretive beaver
<DIV></DIV>>medicine; you
<DIV></DIV>>seldom told a soul!
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Eric's funny, in that he won't tell anyone where he hunts either.
<DIV></DIV>> Says
<DIV></DIV>>when you tell one eleven others tell someone else. Although he
<DIV></DIV>>doesn't feel
<DIV></DIV>>that the mountaineer types are a threat to his bounty trapping. He
<DIV></DIV>>just
<DIV></DIV>>says what ever we write is preserved for everyone to see. But he
<DIV></DIV>>did allow
<DIV></DIV>>me to give a few hints for the 'diligent hardcores'.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>I want to fully understand his position as regards the methods
<DIV></DIV>>>cited in the
<DIV></DIV>>>article, as I gather that he has a great deal of hands-on
<DIV></DIV>>>experience
<DIV></DIV>>>actually trapping beaver over the years.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>As I will be making his copy tomorrow, should you wish to have a
<DIV></DIV>>>copy to
<DIV></DIV>>>review, since I can make two copies about as easily as I can make
<DIV></DIV>>>one,
<DIV></DIV>>>please advise and I will send it to you immediately.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mr. Jones, I do not want to seem ungrateful or rude on your offer.
<DIV></DIV>>But I
<DIV></DIV>>have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the
<DIV></DIV>>list. I
<DIV></DIV>>really do not want anyone lingering around or knocking at my door,
<DIV></DIV>>or
<DIV></DIV>>whatever. I totally understand your enthusiasm for your
<DIV></DIV>>sport/hobby; but I
<DIV></DIV>>need my privacy. The authors and titles of the documents in the
<DIV></DIV>>bibliography would be most helpful, if you wanted to off-list e-mail
<DIV></DIV>>them.
<DIV></DIV>>Again, I am grateful for the offer.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Respectfully,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Sue Raven
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>_________________________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.hotmail.com
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info:
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:13:34 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "SUE RAVEN"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:51:06 -0800
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>From: "Paul Jones"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>>To:<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:36:37 -0600
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>As to this most recent post about the article in Book of
<DIV></DIV>>>Buckskinning VIII,
<DIV></DIV>>>Sue, is your brother saying, when he acknowledges that the "data is
<DIV></DIV>>>pretty
<DIV></DIV>>>good" but further notes that he doubts if any large adults could be
<DIV></DIV>>>taken
<DIV></DIV>>>by these methods," that if the fur trappers, during the rocky
<DIV></DIV>>>mountain fur
<DIV></DIV>>>trapping era, had used traps like the reproduction traps described
<DIV></DIV>>>in the
<DIV></DIV>>>article, and the general methods of trapping discussed in the
<DIV></DIV>>>article, that
<DIV></DIV>>>they could not (or did not, as a general rule) take large adult
<DIV></DIV>>>beaver?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mr. Jones,
<DIV></DIV>> Eric said the only flaws he found in the article were that he
<DIV></DIV>>missed two
<DIV></DIV>>methods of trapping beaver from the old methods.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>1. There was a pole method that a trap chain was linked to.
<DIV></DIV>>Something
<DIV></DIV>>about the dead pole being stuck deep in the mud of the bottom of the
<DIV></DIV>>stream
<DIV></DIV>>in 4-6 feet of water. Or, he said the pole was tied at both ends to
<DIV></DIV>>stakes.
<DIV></DIV>> At the anchor stake the pole was tied at the bottom, and at the
<DIV></DIV>>other end
<DIV></DIV>>near the bank in shallow water. the pole had the knots on it where
<DIV></DIV>>the
<DIV></DIV>>trapper trimmed the limbs off. The limbs were aimed toward the
<DIV></DIV>>water or
<DIV></DIV>>rather, into the deep water. Eric says the beaver would jump for
<DIV></DIV>>deep water
<DIV></DIV>>pulling the trap chain RING or TIED WIRE down the pole. The knots
<DIV></DIV>>stopped
<DIV></DIV>>the beaver from pulling the trap back up. If you understand me, the
<DIV></DIV>>small
<DIV></DIV>>end of the pole is aimed toward the depth of the water. However, he
<DIV></DIV>>pointed
<DIV></DIV>>out, since beaver will not usually chew deadwood; yet the
<DIV></DIV>>construction of
<DIV></DIV>>such a set is tedious and it has to be very sturdy. He says that is
<DIV></DIV>>why it
<DIV></DIV>>is seldom used today; too much work and sometimes it is unstable.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>2. The earlier post about the stone drag used in the Ozark waters
<DIV></DIV>>parallels
<DIV></DIV>>the other technique. Eric claims that the Washington Irving
<DIV></DIV>>document I
<DIV></DIV>>posted a few days ago hints at the type of set. As he won't let me
<DIV></DIV>>come
<DIV></DIV>>right out and tell of this method. He said 'Give them trappers a
<DIV></DIV>>riddle'. He
<DIV></DIV>>claims that an old time trapping author, Stanley Hawbaker published
<DIV></DIV>>this
<DIV></DIV>>unique method used long ago in the northeast. However, Eric got it
<DIV></DIV>>from an
<DIV></DIV>>Indian he once trapped with long before he read the book. This is
<DIV></DIV>>not much
<DIV></DIV>>of a riddle, but for the adept trapper it is hinted at strongly in
<DIV></DIV>>this
<DIV></DIV>>paragraph. He said this method was so foolproof, that seldom would
<DIV></DIV>>a
<DIV></DIV>>trapper lose a beaver.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Eric says trapping techniques were like the secretive beaver
<DIV></DIV>>medicine; you
<DIV></DIV>>seldom told a soul!
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Eric's funny, in that he won't tell anyone where he hunts either.
<DIV></DIV>> Says
<DIV></DIV>>when you tell one eleven others tell someone else. Although he
<DIV></DIV>>doesn't feel
<DIV></DIV>>that the mountaineer types are a threat to his bounty trapping. He
<DIV></DIV>>just
<DIV></DIV>>says what ever we write is preserved for everyone to see. But he
<DIV></DIV>>did allow
<DIV></DIV>>me to give a few hints for the 'diligent hardcores'.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>I want to fully understand his position as regards the methods
<DIV></DIV>>>cited in the
<DIV></DIV>>>article, as I gather that he has a great deal of hands-on
<DIV></DIV>>>experience
<DIV></DIV>>>actually trapping beaver over the years.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>As I will be making his copy tomorrow, should you wish to have a
<DIV></DIV>>>copy to
<DIV></DIV>>>review, since I can make two copies about as easily as I can make
<DIV></DIV>>>one,
<DIV></DIV>>>please advise and I will send it to you immediately.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mr. Jones, I do not want to seem ungrateful or rude on your offer.
<DIV></DIV>>But I
<DIV></DIV>>have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the
<DIV></DIV>>list. I
<DIV></DIV>>really do not want anyone lingering around or knocking at my door,
<DIV></DIV>>or
<DIV></DIV>>whatever. I totally understand your enthusiasm for your
<DIV></DIV>>sport/hobby; but I
<DIV></DIV>>need my privacy. The authors and titles of the documents in the
<DIV></DIV>>bibliography would be most helpful, if you wanted to off-list e-mail
<DIV></DIV>>them.
<DIV></DIV>>Again, I am grateful for the offer.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Respectfully,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Sue Raven
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>_________________________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.hotmail.com
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------
<DIV></DIV>>hist_text list info:
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:15:32 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_606a_4605_2ecf
Content-Type: text/html

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>>From: "Lanney Ratcliff"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "History List"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: block sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:58:06 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page. A box will
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>appear. Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it. Within seconds that
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file. How sweet
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete file
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>automatically. I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Mountain Man List posts. Try it. Saves my computer a lot of "delete" key
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>wear and tear.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Lanney Ratcliff
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>And Sue is the only one to blame.  Nobody accused her of being this ghost?  Nobody tried to tick her off?  Maybe there is a scandal here that others(the true perpetrators want no one to really see?   After all, how would the rest of you take it if verbally attacked an harrassed as I was in the posts from Barney and Paul?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue Raven</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "History List" <[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: MtMan-List: block sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:58:06 -0600
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page. A box will
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>appear. Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it. Within seconds that
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that sender
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file. How sweet
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete file
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>automatically. I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Mountain Man List posts. Try it. Saves my computer a lot of "delete" key
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>wear and tear.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Lanney Ratcliff
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>And Sue is the only one to blame.  Nobody accused her of being this ghost?  Nobody tried to tick her off?  Maybe there is a scandal here that others(the true perpetrators want no one to really see?   After all, how would the rest of you take it if verbally attacked an harrassed as I was in the posts from Barney and Paul?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sue Raven</DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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------=_NextPart_000_606a_4605_2ecf--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:08:16 -0600

John, will you teach a rocky mountain college in May as to how the devil you
accomplished this act of kindness?  Thank you very much for stepping in and
dealing with this person.

Paul


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 6:50 PM


> Dear Sue,
>
> You have made a great nuisance of yourself.  You have punished everyone on
> the list to satisfy your snit.  I will not argue with you, I have taken
action.
>
> I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have notified
> library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
> behavior and abuse of their systems.
>
> I have been assured that action will be taken.
>
> Did you think you were invisible?
>
> I know who you are.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> Now go away.
>
> John...
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:19:05 -0700

> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3096476345_107766_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Gentelmen,
I put Sue Ravens address in my address book and started sending her own crap
back to her, if we all do that she should have 1000 by morning.
Ole
----------


strange,
using neotrace and running a ping test, shows  mailer online

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:03 PM



>Reply-To: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
>
>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
>
>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
>'trapping'. How ironic.
>
>Internet Trolls
>
>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
>time and energy...
>
>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
>virtually all of us in post(s).
>
>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF
THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING
DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.
YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN
THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM
OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE
IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.
HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I
DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR
WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT
EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES
WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.
SUE RAVEN,
NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU
REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR
ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES




MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
<http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp>


--MS_Mac_OE_3096476345_107766_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
Gentelmen,<BR>
I put Sue Ravens address in my address book and started sending her own cra=
p back to her, if we all do that she should have 1000 by morning.<BR>
Ole<BR>
----------<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">strange,<BR>
using neotrace and running a ping test, shows  mailer online<BR>
</FONT> <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<B>From:</B> SUE RAVEN <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>mailto:blond40ddqhearts=
@hotmail.com</U></FONT>>  <BR>
<B>To:</B> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT>=
 <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>mailto:[e-mail]</U></FONT>=
>  <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:03 PM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Reply-To: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></FO=
NT> <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>mailto:[e-mail]</U></FO=
NT>>  <BR>
>To: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT> &l=
t;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>mailto:[e-mail]</U></FONT>>=
;  <BR>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article <BR>
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST <BR>
> <BR>
>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent o=
ff-list e-mails <BR>
>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or=
 <BR>
>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> <BR>
> <BR>
>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what yo=
u may <BR>
>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on <=
BR>
>'trapping'. How ironic. <BR>
> <BR>
><FONT COLOR=3D"#000099">Internet Trolls</FONT> <BR>
> <BR>
>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I =
think <BR>
>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a l=
ist's) <BR>
>time and energy... <BR>
> <BR>
>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garr=
ett' <BR>
>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and sla=
mmed <BR>
>virtually all of us in post(s). <BR>
> <BR>
>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's=
 best <BR>
>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney <BR>
IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF T=
HE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPP=
ING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  <=
BR>
YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN TH=
IS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  <BR>
I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AM=
M OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE =
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD =
TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(I=
NSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A=
 FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TAN=
GENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND =
HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND =
FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YO=
U ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING. <BR>
SUE RAVEN, <BR>
NOT GARRET'S GHOST. <BR>
THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS. &nbs=
p;YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR=
 ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  <BR>
AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=3DCENTER SIZE=3D"3" WIDTH=3D"100%"><BR>
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here &l=
t;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp</U></FONT=
>> <BR>
<BR>
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: block sender
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:10:12 -0600

Lanney, I have outlook express and was able to block Sue, but by accident,
as I was getting ready to deep six her, I blocked someone else with whom I
regularly correspondence because, by chance, one of his e-mails was
high-lighted.  Now I can not figure out how to unblock him.  Any ideas.

Pablo the Moron as to Computers

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 5:58 PM


> Folks
> If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
> isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
> click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page.  A box
will
> appear.  Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it.  Within seconds
that
> sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that
sender
> currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file.  How sweet
> it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete
file
> automatically.   I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
> from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
> Mountain Man List posts.  Try it.  Saves my computer a lot of "delete" key
> wear and tear.
> Lanney Ratcliff
>
>
> ----------------------
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>


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:22:50 -0500

LOL!!!!  You go, Ole!!!  <grins>

Regards,

Ad


> Sue,
> Bite Me!
> Ole



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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:25:00 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?Myself i have so done so.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Ole B. Jensen=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:19 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


  Gentelmen,
  I put Sue Ravens address in my address book and started sending her =
own crap back to her, if we all do that she should have 1000 by morning.
  Ole
  ----------
  From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
  To: <[e-mail]>
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
  Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002, 7:13 PM



    strange,
    using neotrace and running a ping test, shows  mailer online
    =20

      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: SUE RAVEN <mailto:[e-mail]> =20
      To: [e-mail] =
<mailto:[e-mail]> =20
      Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:03 PM
      Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?



      >Reply-To: [e-mail] =
<mailto:[e-mail]> =20
      >To: [e-mail] =
<mailto:[e-mail]> =20
      >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article=20
      >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST=20
      >=20
      >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent =
off-list e-mails=20
      >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering =
around or=20
      >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>=20
      >=20
      >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn =
what you may=20
      >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a =
thread on=20
      >'trapping'. How ironic.=20
      >=20
      >Internet Trolls=20
      >=20
      >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, =
and I think=20
      >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your =
(and a list's)=20
      >time and energy...=20
      >=20
      >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time =
'Clint Garrett'=20
      >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, =
and slammed=20
      >virtually all of us in post(s).=20
      >=20
      >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a =
Troll, it's best=20
      >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney=20
      IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES =
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT =
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME =
UNGLUED. =20
      YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN =
YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION. =20
      I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS =
AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE =
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT =
DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER =
SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH =
A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN =
THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE =
AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  =
AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I =
HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.=20
      SUE RAVEN,=20
      NOT GARRET'S GHOST.=20
      THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM =
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET =
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY. =20
      AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES


-

      MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: =
Click Here <http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp>=20



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Myself i have so done so.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Ole=20
  B. Jensen</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 10:19=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Who is =
the=20
  TROLL?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Gentelmen,<BR>I put Sue Ravens address in my address =
book and=20
  started sending her own crap back to her, if we all do that she should =
have=20
  1000 by morning.<BR>Ole<BR>----------<BR>From: "WindWalker" <<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR>=
  <<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>><BR>Subject:=20
  Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?<BR>Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002, 7:13=20
  PM<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D2>strange,<BR>using neotrace and running a =
ping test,=20
    shows  mailer online<BR></FONT> <BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message ----- <BR><B>From:</B> SUE RAVEN=20
      <<FONT=20
      =
color=3D#0000ff><U>mailto:[e-mail]</U></FONT>>=20
       <BR><B>To:</B> <FONT=20
      color=3D#0000ff><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT> =
<<FONT=20
      =
color=3D#0000ff><U>mailto:[e-mail]</U></FONT>>=20
       <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:03=20
      PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Who is the=20
      TROLL?<BR><BR><BR><BR>>Reply-To: <FONT=20
      color=3D#0000ff><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT> =
<<FONT=20
      =
color=3D#0000ff><U>mailto:[e-mail]</U></FONT>>=20
       <BR>>To: <FONT=20
      color=3D#0000ff><U>[e-mail]</U></FONT> =
<<FONT=20
      =
color=3D#0000ff><U>mailto:[e-mail]</U></FONT>>=20
       <BR>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article =
<BR>>Date:=20
      Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST <BR>> <BR>>blond40DD... wrote: =

      <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails =
<BR>>from=20
      a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or =

      <BR>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">> <BR>> =
<BR>>Folks,=20
      once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you =
may=20
      <BR>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into =
a thread=20
      on <BR>>'trapping'. How ironic. <BR>> <BR>><FONT=20
      color=3D#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT> <BR>> <BR>>Please =
take the time=20
      to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think =
<BR>>you'll=20
      come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a =
list's)=20
      <BR>>time and energy... <BR>> <BR>>Also, keep in mind =
that 'Sue=20
      Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' =
<BR>>disappeared; has=20
      created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed=20
      <BR>>virtually all of us in post(s). <BR>> <BR>>Like the =
website=20
      says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best =
<BR>>to=20
      ignore rather than encourage them. Barney <BR>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A =
GOOD=20
      DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND =
CREATES A=20
      RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.=20
       UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED. =
 <BR>YOU MEN=20
      TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN =
THIS ONE=20
      INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  <BR>I FOR ONE DO NOT =
KNOW THIS=20
      GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL =
FROM=20
      GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN =
ARIZONA=20
      WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF. =
 HIS=20
      PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE =
COVER).=20
       I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A =
FRUSTRATED=20
      TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE =
TANGENTS.=20
       WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE =
AND HAVE=20
      TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE. =
 AND FOR=20
      THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I =
HOPE YOU=20
      ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING. <BR>SUE RAVEN, <BR>NOT GARRET'S =
GHOST.=20
      <BR>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE =
PROBLEM WAS.=20
       YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET =
WOULDN'T=20
      BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY. =
 <BR>AND THEY=20
      CALL MY GENDER BITCHES<BR><BR>
      <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D3>
      <BR>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: =
Click=20
      Here <<FONT=20
      =
color=3D#0000ff><U>http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp</U></FONT>>=
=20
      <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:25:01 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Paul Jones"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To:<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:18:01 -0600
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Barney,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Frankly, I did not pay attention to the earlier posting about trolls, and had put he/she/it Garrett in the mental waste basket. After just rereading all of the correspondence from blond40DD...@hotmail... and then the complete troll site, I have the impression that you are right on point. So, the delete button still works, and I, for one, fairly or not, will not play with Sue anymore. So much for the Master of the Universe Trapper Brother, and he had SO much wisdom to impart. As I reread the material, I almost felt like I was dealing with a spiritual medium raising the voice of one no longer with us.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Anyway, Barney, thanks for the suggestion.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Paul
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>P.S. Dennis, you win.
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>> To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:03 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on 'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Internet Trolls
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's) time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett' disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:28:23 -0800

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>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:27 -0800
>


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Reply-To: [e-mail]

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>>From: [e-mail] </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=4a1365e172d0c5be689f4aca49877288&lat=1013629820&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>>time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag4_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:28:37 -0500

I made 2 rules for Sue... the first one forwards it back to her, and the
second one deletes it... Hopefully there will be 2000 in her box by
morning....

Regards

Ad


> Gentelmen,
> I put Sue Ravens address in my address book and started sending her own
crap
> back to her, if we all do that she should have 1000 by morning.
> Ole



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:32:16 -0500

ROFL!!!!  I love it!!!  Have sent 12 messages back to her automatically,
then it just delets her emails... Nice not to have to wade thru all the BS
that was flying around...

Regards,

Ad


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Ask the "Captain"
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:34:18 -0800 (PST)

All list members.
 Ask capt., it takes three tto Make a fire.
 A fuel, oxygen, and the correct kindeling tempertur.
 Remove any one of these and the "FIRE" will go out.
Right now this "BS" wouldn't even make good "chips"
for a fire.
 Is it possable for all of you to pull in your horns
and just let it drop ???
 Seems every time you respond you just add kindeling
to the FIRE.
 PLEASE !!! Let it drop !!!
 I have blocked Sue Raven and the next choice is to
unscribe.
 I have gleaned a lot of info from this list but can
live without it .
 You may leave me no choice.
 I'm sure you won't mis me but you have also ran off
several that have the past contributed a lot of good
info.

PLEASE STOP KINDELING THE FIRE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:44:29 -0700

Way to go!
Ole
----------
>From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
>Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002, 8:32 PM
>

>ROFL!!!!  I love it!!!  Have sent 12 messages back to her automatically,
>then it just delets her emails... Nice not to have to wade thru all the BS
>that was flying around...
>
>Regards,
>
>Ad
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:46:49 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Ole B. Jensen"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:19:05 -0700
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Gentelmen,
<DIV></DIV>>I put Sue Ravens address in my address book and started sending her own crap
<DIV></DIV>>back to her, if we all do that she should have 1000 by morning.
<DIV></DIV>>Ole
<DIV></DIV>>----------
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>To:<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002, 7:13 PM
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>strange,
<DIV></DIV>>using neotrace and running a ping test, shows mailer online
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>>From: SUE RAVEN<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:03 PM
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >Reply-To: [e-mail]<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: [e-mail]<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>> >'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Internet Trolls
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>> >time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>> >virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
<DIV></DIV>>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF
<DIV></DIV>>THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT. i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING
<DIV></DIV>>DEBATE. UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.
<DIV></DIV>>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN
<DIV></DIV>>THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
<DIV></DIV>>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER. MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM
<DIV></DIV>>OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU. I DO NOT CARE. MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE
<DIV></DIV>>IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.
<DIV></DIV>>HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER). I
<DIV></DIV>>DO NOT CARE. MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR
<DIV></DIV>>WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS. WHO CARES. WHAT
<DIV></DIV>>EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
<DIV></DIV>>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE. AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES
<DIV></DIV>>WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.
<DIV></DIV>>SUE RAVEN,
<DIV></DIV>>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
<DIV></DIV>>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS. YOU
<DIV></DIV>>REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR
<DIV></DIV>>ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
<DIV></DIV>>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
<DIV></DIV>><HTTP: hmtag3_etl_EN.asp bql go.msn.com>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:47:01 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Ole B. Jensen"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:19:05 -0700
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Gentelmen,
<DIV></DIV>>I put Sue Ravens address in my address book and started sending her own crap
<DIV></DIV>>back to her, if we all do that she should have 1000 by morning.
<DIV></DIV>>Ole
<DIV></DIV>>----------
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>To:<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002, 7:13 PM
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>strange,
<DIV></DIV>>using neotrace and running a ping test, shows mailer online
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>>From: SUE RAVEN<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:03 PM
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >Reply-To: [e-mail]<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: [e-mail]<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>> >'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Internet Trolls
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>> >time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>> >virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
<DIV></DIV>>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF
<DIV></DIV>>THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT. i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING
<DIV></DIV>>DEBATE. UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.
<DIV></DIV>>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN
<DIV></DIV>>THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
<DIV></DIV>>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER. MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM
<DIV></DIV>>OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU. I DO NOT CARE. MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE
<DIV></DIV>>IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.
<DIV></DIV>>HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER). I
<DIV></DIV>>DO NOT CARE. MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR
<DIV></DIV>>WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS. WHO CARES. WHAT
<DIV></DIV>>EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
<DIV></DIV>>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE. AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES
<DIV></DIV>>WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.
<DIV></DIV>>SUE RAVEN,
<DIV></DIV>>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
<DIV></DIV>>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS. YOU
<DIV></DIV>>REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR
<DIV></DIV>>ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
<DIV></DIV>>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
<DIV></DIV>><HTTP: hmtag3_etl_EN.asp bql go.msn.com>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:47:14 -0800

<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Ole B. Jensen"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:19:05 -0700
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Gentelmen,
<DIV></DIV>>I put Sue Ravens address in my address book and started sending her own crap
<DIV></DIV>>back to her, if we all do that she should have 1000 by morning.
<DIV></DIV>>Ole
<DIV></DIV>>----------
<DIV></DIV>>From: "WindWalker"<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>To:<[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2002, 7:13 PM
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>strange,
<DIV></DIV>>using neotrace and running a ping test, shows mailer online
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>>From: SUE RAVEN<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:03 PM
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >Reply-To: [e-mail]<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: [e-mail]<MAILTO:[e-mail]>
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
<DIV></DIV>> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
<DIV></DIV>> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
<DIV></DIV>> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
<DIV></DIV>> >'trapping'. How ironic.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Internet Trolls
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
<DIV></DIV>> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
<DIV></DIV>> >time and energy...
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
<DIV></DIV>> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
<DIV></DIV>> >virtually all of us in post(s).
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
<DIV></DIV>> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
<DIV></DIV>>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF
<DIV></DIV>>THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT. i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING
<DIV></DIV>>DEBATE. UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.
<DIV></DIV>>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN
<DIV></DIV>>THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
<DIV></DIV>>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER. MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM
<DIV></DIV>>OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU. I DO NOT CARE. MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE
<DIV></DIV>>IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.
<DIV></DIV>>HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER). I
<DIV></DIV>>DO NOT CARE. MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR
<DIV></DIV>>WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS. WHO CARES. WHAT
<DIV></DIV>>EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
<DIV></DIV>>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE. AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES
<DIV></DIV>>WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.
<DIV></DIV>>SUE RAVEN,
<DIV></DIV>>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
<DIV></DIV>>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS. YOU
<DIV></DIV>>REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR
<DIV></DIV>>ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
<DIV></DIV>>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
<DIV></DIV>><HTTP: hmtag3_etl_EN.asp bql go.msn.com>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: block sender
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:08:48 -0600

Pablo, Pablo, Pablo.....
In your toolbar select "Tools", then "Message Rules", then "Blocked Senders
List". Highlight the address you want to restore and click "remove". That
should do it.  THEN go back and delete anyone you want.
Lanney

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:10 PM


> Lanney, I have outlook express and was able to block Sue, but by accident,
> as I was getting ready to deep six her, I blocked someone else with whom I
> regularly correspondence because, by chance, one of his e-mails was
> high-lighted.  Now I can not figure out how to unblock him.  Any ideas.
>
> Pablo the Moron as to Computers
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
> To: "History List" <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 5:58 PM
> Subject: MtMan-List: block sender
>
>
> > Folks
> > If you want to block a sender....and are using Outlook (and who
> > isn't??).......click on a message from the sender you want blocked then
> > click on "Messages" at the tool bar at the very top of the page.  A box
> will
> > appear.  Scroll down to "Block Sender" and click on it.  Within seconds
> that
> > sender will be blocked from your computer and all messages from that
> sender
> > currently in you Inbox will immediately go to your delete file.  How
sweet
> > it is. Subsequent messages from that sender will be sent to the delete
> file
> > automatically.   I was surprised to find that it works on posts received
> > from a particular sender on the Mountain Man List without deleting other
> > Mountain Man List posts.  Try it.  Saves my computer a lot of "delete"
key
> > wear and tear.
> > Lanney Ratcliff
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 23:12:56 EST


--part1_97.23142935.299c9348_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/13/2002 5:16:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Who out there shoots a smoothbore...esp. a Tulle fusil-de-chasse...as part
> of
> their gear?
>

C. - I shoot a Centermark Grenedier, which is their military version of the
fusil.  It's especially gnarly with the bayonet attached!  Found it to be a
fine kit and she shoots great. Barney

--part1_97.23142935.299c9348_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 2/13/2002 5:16:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Who out there shoots a smoothbore...esp. a Tulle fusil-de-chasse...as part of <BR>
their gear?<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
C. - I shoot a Centermark Grenedier, which is their military version of the fusil.  It's especially gnarly with the bayonet attached!  Found it to be a fine kit and she shoots great. Barney</B></FONT></HTML>

--part1_97.23142935.299c9348_boundary--

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:34:27 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_73f2_26b_4906
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




>Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES





_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:34:31 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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>Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES







_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:34:21 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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>Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

------=_NextPart_000_7808_258_202b
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From [e-mail] Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:40:18 -0800
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>><A target=_blank href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=356ce748172561b7fdcc4d7e1731c192&lat=1013628886&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eteamtechnology%2eco%2euk%2ftroll%2ehtm"><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag3_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:34:35 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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>Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES









_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_41ca_28f_7d23
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>Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES











_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:34:42 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_69bc_29c_93c
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




>Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES













_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:36:41 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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 >Dear Sue,
 >
 >You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
 >everyone on
 >the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
 >taken action.
 >
 >I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
 >notified
 >library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
 >behavior and abuse of their systems.
 >
 >I have been assured that action will be taken.
 >
 >Did you think you were invisible?
 >
 >I know who you are.
 >
 >Have a nice day.
 >
 >Now go away.
 >
 >John...

JOHN,

YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF
SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR
SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.
AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE
OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE
BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU
BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SUE RAVEN


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

------=_NextPart_000_6e10_421_2d9d
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From [e-mail] Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:23:10 -0800
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:50:13 -0600
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<DIV></DIV>>Dear Sue,
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>everyone on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:36:45 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_1602_42e_696c
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed





 >Dear Sue,
 >
 >You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
 >everyone on
 >the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
 >taken action.
 >
 >I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
 >notified
 >library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
 >behavior and abuse of their systems.
 >
 >I have been assured that action will be taken.
 >
 >Did you think you were invisible?
 >
 >I know who you are.
 >
 >Have a nice day.
 >
 >Now go away.
 >
 >John...

JOHN,

YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF
SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR
SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.
AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE
OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE
BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU
BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SUE RAVEN




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>taken action.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>notified
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>behavior and abuse of their systems.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I have been assured that action will be taken.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Did you think you were invisible?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I know who you are.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Have a nice day.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Now go away.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John...
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>JOHN, </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>SUE RAVEN</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


------=_NextPart_000_6e10_421_2d9d--

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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:36:49 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_3df4_43b_23c
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed





 >Dear Sue,
 >
 >You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
 >everyone on
 >the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
 >taken action.
 >
 >I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
 >notified
 >library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
 >behavior and abuse of their systems.
 >
 >I have been assured that action will be taken.
 >
 >Did you think you were invisible?
 >
 >I know who you are.
 >
 >Have a nice day.
 >
 >Now go away.
 >
 >John...

JOHN,

YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF
SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR
SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.
AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE
OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE
BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU
BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SUE RAVEN






_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

------=_NextPart_000_3df4_43b_23c
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----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Yes, cover up the truth!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:36:53 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_65e5_448_5fe
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed





 >Dear Sue,
 >
 >You have made a great nuisance of yourself. You have punished
 >everyone on
 >the list to satisfy your snit. I will not argue with you, I have
 >taken action.
 >
 >I have traced the address from which you've been posting and have
 >notified
 >library officials at The University of Nevada Reno of your psychotic
 >behavior and abuse of their systems.
 >
 >I have been assured that action will be taken.
 >
 >Did you think you were invisible?
 >
 >I know who you are.
 >
 >Have a nice day.
 >
 >Now go away.
 >
 >John...

JOHN,

YOU ONLY WANT NOT TO LOOK AT THE FACTS.  YES, I GOT BENT OUT OF
SHAPE.  BUT NOBODY DELIBERATELY PUSHED MY BUTTONS, DID THEY?  YOUR
SITE HAS GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE; IT IS NOT JUST ME.
AS OTHERS HAVE SAID TO ME OFF LIST: MOST OF THE TIME THIS SITE IS A WASTE
OF TIME.  IT WAS NOT I YOU DIDN"T LIKE.  YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY MAKE
BELEIVE AND YOU HATE THE FACT YOU ARE NOT WHAT YOU
BELEIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SUE RAVEN








_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:34 -0800




>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800
>
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
> >
> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
>e-mails
> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
> >
> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
>may
> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
> >'trapping'. How ironic.
> >
> >Internet Trolls
> >
> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
>think
> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
>list's)
> >time and energy...
> >
> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
>Garrett'
> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
>slammed
> >virtually all of us in post(s).
> >
> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
>best
>
> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
>
>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:38 -0800




>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800
>
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
> >
> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
>e-mails
> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
> >
> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
>may
> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
> >'trapping'. How ironic.
> >
> >Internet Trolls
> >
> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
>think
> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
>list's)
> >time and energy...
> >
> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
>Garrett'
> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
>slammed
> >virtually all of us in post(s).
> >
> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
>best
>
> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
>
>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com






_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:41 -0800




>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800
>
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
> >
> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
>e-mails
> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
> >
> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
>may
> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
> >'trapping'. How ironic.
> >
> >Internet Trolls
> >
> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
>think
> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
>list's)
> >time and energy...
> >
> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
>Garrett'
> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
>slammed
> >virtually all of us in post(s).
> >
> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
>best
>
> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
>
>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com








_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:45 -0800




>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800
>
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
> >
> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
>e-mails
> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
> >
> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
>may
> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
> >'trapping'. How ironic.
> >
> >Internet Trolls
> >
> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
>think
> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
>list's)
> >time and energy...
> >
> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
>Garrett'
> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
>slammed
> >virtually all of us in post(s).
> >
> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
>best
>
> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
>
>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com










_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:47 -0800




>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800
>
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
> >
> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
>e-mails
> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
> >
> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
>may
> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
> >'trapping'. How ironic.
> >
> >Internet Trolls
> >
> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
>think
> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
>list's)
> >time and energy...
> >
> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
>Garrett'
> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
>slammed
> >virtually all of us in post(s).
> >
> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
>best
>
> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
>
>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com












_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:51 -0800




>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800
>
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
> >
> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
>e-mails
> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
> >
> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
>may
> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
> >'trapping'. How ironic.
> >
> >Internet Trolls
> >
> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
>think
> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
>list's)
> >time and energy...
> >
> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
>Garrett'
> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
>slammed
> >virtually all of us in post(s).
> >
> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
>best
>
> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
>
>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com














_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:54 -0800




>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800
>
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
> >
> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
>e-mails
> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
> >
> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
>may
> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
> >'trapping'. How ironic.
> >
> >Internet Trolls
> >
> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
>think
> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
>list's)
> >time and energy...
> >
> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
>Garrett'
> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
>slammed
> >virtually all of us in post(s).
> >
> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
>best
>
> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
>
>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
















_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:56 -0800




>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800
>
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
> >
> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
>e-mails
> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
> >
> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
>may
> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
> >'trapping'. How ironic.
> >
> >Internet Trolls
> >
> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
>think
> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
>list's)
> >time and energy...
> >
> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
>Garrett'
> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
>slammed
> >virtually all of us in post(s).
> >
> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
>best
>
> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
>
>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


















_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:38:59 -0800




>From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: WHY IS SHE MAD??????
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:34:38 -0800
>
>
>
>
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >To: [e-mail]
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
> >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
> >
> >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
>e-mails
> >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
> >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
> >
> >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
>may
> >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
> >'trapping'. How ironic.
> >
> >Internet Trolls
> >
> >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
>think
> >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
>list's)
> >time and energy...
> >
> >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
>Garrett'
> >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
>slammed
> >virtually all of us in post(s).
> >
> >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
>best
>
> >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney
>
>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com




















_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ALAN AVERY <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:40:29 -0800

My persona is a voyageur, and as such, I have been shooting a fusil de
chasse for some years now. Did you have a question?

Alan Avery

"Black Knife"



----- Original Message -----
Sent: February 13, 2002 5:15 PM


> Who out there shoots a smoothbore...esp. a Tulle fusil-de-chasse...as part
of
> their gear?
>
> -C.KEnt
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:48:29 -0500

I sent back everything, i recieved today and this night

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 10:32 PM


> ROFL!!!!  I love it!!!  Have sent 12 messages back to her automatically,
> then it just delets her emails... Nice not to have to wade thru all the BS
> that was flying around...
>
> Regards,
>
> Ad
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: No one provoked her?!!!!!?????!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:49:01 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_4bad_d92_7ac3
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

        From :
              "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>


      Reply-To :
              [e-mail]


          To :
              [e-mail]


       Subject :
              Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800





 >From: [e-mail]

 >Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES







_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

------=_NextPart_000_4bad_d92_7ac3
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed


------=_NextPart_000_4bad_d92_7ac3--

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: No one provoked her?!!!!!?????!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:49:04 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_49a2_d9b_5d5
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

        From :
              "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>


      Reply-To :
              [e-mail]


          To :
              [e-mail]


       Subject :
              Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800





 >From: [e-mail]

 >Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES









_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

------=_NextPart_000_49a2_d9b_5d5
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed


------=_NextPart_000_49a2_d9b_5d5--

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: No one provoked her?!!!!!?????!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:48:57 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_23bc_d84_28b8
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

        From :
              "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>


      Reply-To :
              [e-mail]


          To :
              [e-mail]


       Subject :
              Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800





 >From: [e-mail]

 >Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES





_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=1eeae60e08496883205e56453d5668de&lat=1013655663&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d356ce748172561b7fdcc4d7e1731c192%26amp%3blat%3d1013628886%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm" target=_blank><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>

------=_NextPart_000_23bc_d84_28b8--

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: No one provoked her?!!!!!?????!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:49:07 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_4798_da5_304c
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

        From :
              "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>


      Reply-To :
              [e-mail]


          To :
              [e-mail]


       Subject :
              Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800





 >From: [e-mail]

 >Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES











_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

------=_NextPart_000_4798_da5_304c
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed


------=_NextPart_000_4798_da5_304c--

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: No one provoked her?!!!!!?????!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:49:10 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_458d_daf_7b85
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

        From :
              "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>


      Reply-To :
              [e-mail]


          To :
              [e-mail]


       Subject :
              Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800





 >From: [e-mail]

 >Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES













_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

------=_NextPart_000_458d_daf_7b85
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed


------=_NextPart_000_458d_daf_7b85--

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: No one provoked her?!!!!!?????!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:49:13 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_4382_db9_60ee
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

        From :
              "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>


      Reply-To :
              [e-mail]


          To :
              [e-mail]


       Subject :
              Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800





 >From: [e-mail]

 >Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES















_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

------=_NextPart_000_4382_db9_60ee
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed


------=_NextPart_000_4382_db9_60ee--

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: No one provoked her?!!!!!?????!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:49:16 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_4177_dc3_196a
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

        From :
              "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>


      Reply-To :
              [e-mail]


          To :
              [e-mail]


       Subject :
              Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800





 >From: [e-mail]

 >Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES

















_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: No one provoked her?!!!!!?????!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:49:19 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_3f6c_dcc_4c60
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Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

        From :
              "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>


      Reply-To :
              [e-mail]


          To :
              [e-mail]


       Subject :
              Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800





 >From: [e-mail]

 >Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



















_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

------=_NextPart_000_3f6c_dcc_4c60
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed


------=_NextPart_000_3f6c_dcc_4c60--

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: No one provoked her?!!!!!?????!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:49:22 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_3d62_dd6_2e8e
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES



Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com.

        From :
              "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>


      Reply-To :
              [e-mail]


          To :
              [e-mail]


       Subject :
              Re: MtMan-List: Who is the TROLL?


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:51:30 -0800





 >From: [e-mail]

 >Reply-To: [e-mail]
 >To: [e-mail]
 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
 >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
 >
 >blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list
e-mails
 >from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
 >knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
 >
 >Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you
may
 >be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
 >'trapping'. How ironic.
 >
 >Internet Trolls
 >
 >Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I
think
 >you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a
list's)
 >time and energy...
 >
 >Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint
Garrett'
 >disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and
slammed
 >virtually all of us in post(s).
 >
 >Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's
best

 >to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney

IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
UNGLUED.

YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.

I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
ARE CREATING.

SUE RAVEN,

NOT GARRET'S GHOST.

THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.

AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES





















_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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------=_NextPart_000_3d62_dd6_2e8e--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trolls and AOL blocking
Date: 13 Feb 2002 23:54:50 EST


--part1_c9.1d58c30a.299c9d1a_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Just wanted to let folks on AOL (and yes there are some of us) that you can
block mail from individual senders by going through your MAIL Controls..so
far, so good.

--part1_c9.1d58c30a.299c9d1a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT  style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2>Just wanted to let folks on AOL (and yes there are some of us) that you can block mail from individual senders by going through your MAIL Controls..so far, so good.</FONT></HTML>

--part1_c9.1d58c30a.299c9d1a_boundary--

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Gene Hickman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:13:26 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_006F_01C1B4DB.A8BED240
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: SUE RAVEN=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:25 PM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article






  >From: "Paul Jones"=20
  >Reply-To: [e-mail]=20
  >To:=20
  >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article=20
  >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:18:01 -0600=20
  >=20
  >Barney,=20
  >=20
  >Frankly, I did not pay attention to the earlier posting about trolls, =
and had put he/she/it Garrett in the mental waste basket. After just =
rereading all of the correspondence from blond40DD...@hotmail... and =
then the complete troll site, I have the impression that you are right =
on point. So, the delete button still works, and I, for one, fairly or =
not, will not play with Sue anymore. So much for the Master of the =
Universe Trapper Brother, and he had SO much wisdom to impart. As I =
reread the material, I almost felt like I was dealing with a spiritual =
medium raising the voice of one no longer with us.=20
  >=20
  >Anyway, Barney, thanks for the suggestion.=20
  >=20
  >Paul=20
  >=20
  >P.S. Dennis, you win.=20
  > ----- Original Message -----=20
  > From: [e-mail]=20
  > To: [e-mail]=20
  > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:03 PM=20
  > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article=20
  >=20
  >=20
  > blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list =
e-mails from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering =
around or knocking at my door, or whatever.">>=20
  >=20
  > Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what =
you may be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a =
thread on 'trapping'. How ironic.=20
  >=20
  > Internet Trolls=20
  >=20
  > Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and =
I think you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your =
(and a list's) time and energy...=20
  >=20
  > Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint =
Garrett' disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, =
and slammed virtually all of us in post(s).=20
  >=20
  > Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, =
it's best to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney=20
  >=20
  >=20


-----
  Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: Click Here
  ---------------------- hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">SUE RAVEN</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 13, =
2002 8:25=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: BoB =
Trapping'=20
  Article</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>>From: "Paul Jones"<[e-mail]>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>To:<[e-mail]>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:18:01 -0600=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Barney,=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Frankly, I did not pay attention to the earlier posting =
about=20
  trolls, and had put he/she/it Garrett in the mental waste basket. =
After just=20
  rereading all of the correspondence from <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:blond40DD...@hotmail">blond40DD...@hotmail</A>... and =
then the=20
  complete troll site, I have the impression that you are right on =
point. So,=20
  the delete button still works, and I, for one, fairly or not, will not =
play=20
  with Sue anymore. So much for the Master of the Universe Trapper =
Brother, and=20
  he had SO much wisdom to impart. As I reread the material, I almost =
felt like=20
  I was dealing with a spiritual medium raising the voice of one no =
longer with=20
  us.=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Anyway, Barney, thanks for the suggestion.=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>Paul=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>P.S. Dennis, you win.=20
  <DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----=20
  <DIV></DIV>> From: [e-mail]=20
  <DIV></DIV>> To: [e-mail]=20
  <DIV></DIV>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:03 PM=20
  <DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>> blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting =
some=20
  ardent off-list e-mails from a few on the list. I really do not want =
anyone=20
  lingering around or knocking at my door, or whatever.">>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>> Folks, once again I refer you to the following website =
to=20
  learn what you may be dealing with here. The above statement was =
thrown into a=20
  thread on 'trapping'. How ironic.=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>> Internet Trolls=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>> Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and =
TACTICAL=20
  TROLLS, and I think you'll come to understand how they are capable of =
wasting=20
  your (and a list's) time and energy...=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>> Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the =
time=20
  'Clint Garrett' disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since =
that=20
  time, and slammed virtually all of us in post(s).=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>> Like the website says... if you think you're dealing =
with a=20
  Troll, it's best to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV>>=20
  <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <A=20
  href=3D"http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp">Click=20
  Here</A><BR>---------------------- hist_text list info:=20
  =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A round of APPLAUSE for BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:13:52 -0800

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        From :
              "Bill Klesinger" <[e-mail]>


          To :
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:59:20 -0700



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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A round of APPLAUSE for BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:13:44 -0800

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[e-mail]




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        From :
              "Bill Klesinger" <[e-mail]>


          To :
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:59:20 -0700

_________________________________________________________________
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<DIV></DIV>>To: [e-mail]
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=1eeae60e08496883205e56453d5668de&lat=1013655663&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d356ce748172561b7fdcc4d7e1731c192%26amp%3blat%3d1013628886%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm" target=_blank><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A round of APPLAUSE for BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:13:57 -0800

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        From :
              "Bill Klesinger" <[e-mail]>


          To :
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:59:20 -0700





_________________________________________________________________
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A round of APPLAUSE for BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:14:02 -0800

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[e-mail]




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        From :
              "Bill Klesinger" <[e-mail]>


          To :
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:59:20 -0700







_________________________________________________________________
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A round of APPLAUSE for BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:14:06 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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[e-mail]




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        From :
              "Bill Klesinger" <[e-mail]>


          To :
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:59:20 -0700









_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A round of APPLAUSE for BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:14:12 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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[e-mail]




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        From :
              "Bill Klesinger" <[e-mail]>


          To :
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:59:20 -0700











_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A round of APPLAUSE for BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:14:39 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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[e-mail]




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        From :
              "Bill Klesinger" <[e-mail]>


          To :
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>,
              "Loud mouth" <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
              <[e-mail]>, "Loud mouth"
<[e-mail]>, "Loud
              mouth" <[e-mail]>


         Date :
              Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:59:20 -0700













_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Kayla M. Michael" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: unsubscribe
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:35:01 -0700

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Unsubscribe.......Kayla M.

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8><FONT face=3DArial =
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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: reread how it started!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:21:59 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.






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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: reread how it started!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:21:53 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_37ff_26b9_1b89
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>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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<html><div style='background-color:'>
<DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: BoB Trapping' Article
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:03:33 EST
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<DIV></DIV>>blond40DD... wrote: <<"But I have been getting some ardent off-list e-mails
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<DIV></DIV>>from a few on the list. I really do not want anyone lingering around or
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<DIV></DIV>>knocking at my door, or whatever.">>
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<DIV></DIV>>Folks, once again I refer you to the following website to learn what you may
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<DIV></DIV>>be dealing with here. The above statement was thrown into a thread on
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<DIV></DIV>>'trapping'. How ironic.
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<DIV></DIV>><A href="http://216.33.148.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=1eeae60e08496883205e56453d5668de&lat=1013655663&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2f216%2e33%2e148%2e250%2fcgi%2dbin%2flinkrd%3f_lang%3dEN%26amp%3blah%3d356ce748172561b7fdcc4d7e1731c192%26amp%3blat%3d1013628886%26amp%3bhm___action%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252eteamtechnology%252eco%252euk%252ftroll%252ehtm" target=_blank><FONT color=#000099>Internet Trolls</FONT></A>
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<DIV></DIV>>Please take the time to read about PLAYTIME and TACTICAL TROLLS, and I think
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<DIV></DIV>>you'll come to understand how they are capable of wasting your (and a list's)
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<DIV></DIV>>Also, keep in mind that 'Sue Raven' appeared about the time 'Clint Garrett'
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<DIV></DIV>>disappeared; has created plenty of controversy since that time, and slammed
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<DIV></DIV>>virtually all of us in post(s).
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<DIV></DIV>>Like the website says... if you think you're dealing with a Troll, it's best
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<P>>to ignore rather than encourage them. Barney </P>
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<P>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME UNGLUED.  </P>
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<P>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.  </P>
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<P>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU ARE CREATING.</P>
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<P>SUE RAVEN, </P>
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<P>NOT GARRET'S GHOST. </P>
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<P>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.  </P>
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<P>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES</P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_etl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></html>


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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: reread how it started!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:22:06 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.








_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: reread how it started!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:22:10 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.










_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

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From: "SUE RAVEN" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: reread how it started!!!!!!
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:22:15 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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>IT SEEMS THAT ONCE A GOOD DISCUSSION GETS UNDER WAY, SOMEONE COMES
>OUT OF THE WOODS AND CREATES A RIOT.  i MEAN WE HAD A TRULLY GREAT
>BEAVER TRAPPING DEBATE.  UNTIL SOMEONE THOUGHT IT WAS TIME TO COME
>UNGLUED.
>
>YOU MEN TALK AND CLAIM OF THE INJUSTICE OF THE OTHER SITE, THEN YOU
>TURN THIS ONE INTO SOMETHING LESS THAN DISCUSSION.
>
>I FOR ONE DO NOT KNOW THIS GARRET CHARACTER.  MAYBE HE IS OR WAS AN
>AMM OFFICER WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH YOU.  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE HE
>WAS THE ONE IN ARIZONA WHO STOLED FROM HIS PARTNER, TONY SOMETHING
>THAT DAD TOLD ME OF.  HIS PATNER BEING IN A DRAWING IN THE
>MUZZLELOADER SERIES(INSIDE COVER).  I DO NOT CARE.  MAYBE THE MAJORITY
>HERE HAVE SUCH A FRUSTRATED TIME WITH THEIR WIFE AND CAREER THAT
>THEY BREAK OUT IN THESE TANGENTS.  WHO CARES.  WHAT EVER THE
>EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AND HAVE TO STIR UP TROBLE RATHER THAN
>DISCUSS ANYTHING I DON'T CARE.  AND FOR THOSE WHOM ARE JUST FREAK
>PARASITES WHOM TRIVE ON THIS MAYHEM, I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE SITE YOU
>ARE CREATING.
>
>SUE RAVEN,
>
>NOT GARRET'S GHOST.
>
>THE WAY YOU GUYS ARE ACTING I WOULD SAY THAT WHATEVER THE PROBLEM
>WAS.  YOU REATIONS SAY THAT YOU MAY BE REALLY MAD BECAUSE GARRET
>WOULDN'T BOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SUPPOSED DEITY AND AUTHORITY.
>
>AND THEY CALL MY GENDER BITCHES
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.












_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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From: Todd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Was SUE - now Bag Strap
Date: 14 Feb 2002 19:24:57 -0600

I got something similar.  Looks like it's flat woven out of jute.   Works
well, and even takes walnut dye after a fashion.   I picked up about 10
feet of it at Friendship last year at a cloth sutler's tent.   I dyed a
small piece to see how well it takes.   I think I'm going to leave the
strap as is though, and let it age on it's ownsome.    Stuck it on a bag I
found at a thrift store of all places.   Hand sewn out of a deer skin with
the hair on, and a very supple dark buckskin.     Picked it up for a
dollar.   =)  Stuck a wood button on it, and sewed an extra pocket inside
for my wadding, and I got a fine bag for the fowler.


At 10:02 PM 2/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I've got a nice possible bag that I and putting a woven "burlap" strap on
>and getting rid of a thin leather strap. Picked up the burlap strap at
>Alafia.... it's about 2" wide and fairly thick.  I got the leather end
>pieces cut out, and the brass rectangle rings to attach it with.  Just gotta
>find time to get it finished.  One of those NASTY lil "V" words snuck out of
>somewhere it was living in my computer and literally killed it last Sunday.
>It sure is a bear getting everything back on a new computer... :((
>
>Regards,
>
>Ad
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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From: "Possum Hunter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Creosote on a tent
Date: 14 Feb 2002 18:58:18 -0500 (EST)

walter palmer wrote on 2/12/02 12:42:
>does anyone know how to get creosote off my canvas tent ?

WD-40 will get it off then you can use "Shout" to wash out the WD-40

Possum

Remember:  Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to =
get you.

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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 14 Feb 2002 19:02:12 -0800

C.Kent,

I do. How can I help?

Capt. Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 5:15 PM


> Who out there shoots a smoothbore...esp. a Tulle fusil-de-chasse...as part
of
> their gear?
>
> -C.KEnt
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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From: Dean Rudy <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: List status
Date: 14 Feb 2002 22:18:20 -0700

A number of you have made inquiries about the MtMan list.  Like most of
you, I logged on last night to find my inbox filled with large quantities
of junk.  Since we can't let that continue, I've turned back on the list
"moderating" feature for the time being.  Everything will work the same as
before, except that all messages are automatically routed to the list
administrator for approval before they are broadcast to everyone.  The
purpose of this is only to enforce the list rules everyone received when
they subscribed, not to provide editorial quality control.  Only on-topic
posts will be approved.

The downside of this is that I can only review messages for approval
periodically, when I have time and when I can get to a computer.  So there
will be quiet periods, and messages will tend to come in batches.  We'll
try this for a while and see how it goes.  Complaints, comments and
suggestions regarding list administration should be sent to directly to
[e-mail].

regards,
Dean Rudy
MtMan list administrator

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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Was SUE - now Bag Strap
Date: 15 Feb 2002 10:41:43 -0500

I have found more stuff at garage sales and thrift stores that is acceptable
for use in our "hobby"... Old Green River knives and forks, pewterware,
shooting bags that need only a little modification, etc... Got 6, 10" pewter
plates for $3 each... and there were not the "Western Sizzler" kind...

Regards,

Ad


>    Stuck it on a bag I
> found at a thrift store of all places.   Hand sewn out of a deer skin with
> the hair on, and a very supple dark buckskin.     Picked it up for a
> dollar.   =)  Stuck a wood button on it, and sewed an extra pocket inside
> for my wadding, and I got a fine bag for the fowler.

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 08:25:19 EST

And so do I, it is the best overall gun I have ever owned.  Got it 2 hunting seasons ago and got a deer each season.  Great lines, great feel, reliable and fast response.  Opps almost sounds like, oh never mind.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes

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From: "De Santis, Nick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Learning some trapping skills
Date: 15 Feb 2002 09:49:18 -0800

Hi all,

I am not likely to be able to be able to acquire all the skills or to spend
all the time needed to meet all the AMM goals in the foreseeable future (Dad
and husband first!), but I am interested in trapping small game with snares.
I never have tried it, but read about it some, and would like to give it a
whirl.  More interested in natural materials vs. wire. Not that I wouldn't
try both!

Just wondering if anybody will be at Frog this year that would be willing to
sit down with me and give some pointers?

Thanks and please contact me off list.

Travler

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 12:32:42 EST


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In a message dated 2/15/02 7:51:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:


> Opps almost sounds like, oh never mind.
>
I keep tellin' everybody shooting flint lock is like having another wife!
Treat "her" right & she'll perform nicely, neglect her & pay the price!  8)

NM


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3>In a message dated 2/15/02 7:51:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Opps almost sounds like, oh never mind.
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I keep tellin' everybody shooting flint lock is like having another wife!  Treat "her" right & she'll perform nicely, neglect her & pay the price!  8)
<BR>
<BR>NM
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 11:34:11 EST

Capt. Lahti (and others),

I have mentined that my upcoming tulle presents a new learning curve for me
and was wondering if the dropstock butt presented any issues for those who
shoot a Tulle.  Sight picture, etc.

Also, if you have any special tidbits beyond generalities for the loading and
working of a load (I can get that from archives) then you can respond to me
offlist and I will be very much appreciative!

-C.Kent

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Wind River
Date: 15 Feb 2002 10:14:29 -0500

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Is anyone going to the Wind River shoot this summer?
Also rumor is Gardner MT is having a shoot /encampment  outside of =
Yellowstone this year.
Livingston MT is having a small Pioneer Days frolic
the 3rd weekend of June


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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is anyone going to the Wind River shoot =
this=20
summer?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also rumor is Gardner MT is having a =
shoot=20
/encampment  outside of Yellowstone this year.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Livingston MT is having a small Pioneer =
Days=20
frolic</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the 3rd weekend of June</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 11:30:27 EST

Ad,

I am starting to gather info on them since I am soon to be shooting one.
Have you had to change your shooting technique based on the dropping stock
configuration?

Also, since smoothbores present a new learning curve for me...any load advice
you may have beyond generalities (I can go to archives for that) is
appreciated.
-C.Kent

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 19:03:38 -0800

C.Kent,

Off list works but on list and we have a fairly safe topic to discuss. <G>

I found that shooting a Tulle' requires a more upright stance to the head
rather than any tendency to "lean" into the gun/stock. Leaning in seems to
lay one's self open for a "French kiss". A good friend gave up on his Tulle'
a number of years before I got one for that reason. His shooting style is
more in tune with shooing an M1 Garand (getting in close). I didn't have any
problem because I tend to mount the stock and hold my head more upright
(back away from the tang/comb etc. area). Just my experience and it may or
may not apply to anyone else. I'm sure overloading will also contribute to
that with excess recoil. It does not take a hot load to do good work with
the Tulle'.

As to wringing out good accuracy, I find that in my Centermark Tulle', a .60
ball patched with something as thin as bed sheet works ok. I have gone to
making that combination into what is called a Jager patched Ball. The patch
material is gathered around the ball and tied off with a clove hitch at the
sprue. The excess is cut close to the knot. The patched ball is then dipped
in melted grease or olive oil to thoroughly prelude it. They thus can be
carried in a ball bag and "tipped" out as needed. That combination seems to
go down fairly easily and comes out with surprising accuracy. I have no idea
whether the patching falls off or not but it doesn't seem to matter. I've
hit a 9 inch gong at close to 100 yards off hand a number of times in a row
with that method so I'm convinced that it provides good accuracy.

I usually use about 75/80 grains of 3f since I prime from the main horn and
3f works fine for priming powder as well as a main charge.

Another way to attain excellent accuracy if you have the time to go through
it all is to load powder, then a fiber cushion wad, then the ball, topped
with a card wad. The procedure is as follows to keep the ball sprue up which
is usually conceded as desirable.

 Pour powder, start a cushion wad, push cushion wad down with the ball until
the ball is flush sprue up. Place a card wad on the ball and push all three
elements down with the ram rod onto the powder. I find this works extremely
well in any smooth bore in that it allows the use of a close to bore size
ball which normally is hard to put down with a patch and the wad under the
ball seals the gases behind the ball and does not allow blow by which is the
enemy of smooth bore accuracy or any muzzle loader accuracy for that matter.

All that is left is to practice with your sight picture until you "groove"
it the same each time. There are no secrets to that other than practice.
Hope that helps.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Learning some trapping skills
Date: 15 Feb 2002 17:07:00 -0500

Im sending a few links, As I am a avid trapper also and have been for alot
of years
http://www.nationaltrappers.com/index.html
Good books can be got from
Fur-Fish-Game magazine.
Some of the Harding books are excellent reading.
A more entry book would be North American Furbearers
>From Fur-Fish_game
Also do a web search for "Buckshot"
He has a excellent web site for trapping.
Use snares careful, as some states outlaw them
They do get pets !
also larger ones {wolf size} can get humans i.e children.
Use extreme care placing snares.
Hawbaker puts out some excellent info on trapping
There is also a newspaper type publication called "Predator"  it has alot of
trapping info.
Start out learning the different sets for diffrent wanted pelts.
Combining some ML hunting while running a canoe trapline can be a rewarding
time.
sam



----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:49 PM


> Hi all,
>
> I am not likely to be able to be able to acquire all the skills or to
spend
> all the time needed to meet all the AMM goals in the foreseeable future
(Dad
> and husband first!), but I am interested in trapping small game with
snares.
> I never have tried it, but read about it some, and would like to give it a
> whirl.  More interested in natural materials vs. wire. Not that I wouldn't
> try both!
>
> Just wondering if anybody will be at Frog this year that would be willing
to
> sit down with me and give some pointers?
>
> Thanks and please contact me off list.
>
> Travler
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lee Newbill" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Coeur D'Alene (Idaho) Blackpowder & Craft Show
Date: 15 Feb 2002 14:42:13 -0800

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Hey folks... don't forget the CD'A show this weekend at the fairgrounds.

Hope to see ya there

Lee Newbill
Clerk, Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey folks... don't forget the CD'A show =
this=20
weekend at the fairgrounds.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hope to see ya there</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lee Newbill</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Clerk, Hog Heaven=20
Muzzleloaders</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: Jon Towns <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Learning some trapping skills
Date: 15 Feb 2002 22:00:06 -0800 (PST)

--0-1035543119-1013839206=:35891
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


WELL WINDWALKER,  YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT SNARES I HAVE TRAPED WITH SNARES AND HAVE CAUGHT FOX.  COYOTES, AND DOGS.  I HAVE NEVER KILLED A DOG BECAUSE THE HAVE BEEN TIED UP BEFORE AND MOSTLY DON'T FIGHT THE SNARE.  I TRY NEVER TO TRAP NEAR HOUSES AND IF I GET A PET IS BECAUSE THE OWNER ISN'T DOING THEIR PART KEEPING THEM HOME.  I RATHER TRAP BEAVER AND MUSKRATS.  THEY WORK REAL GOOD.  MOST OF THE TIME THEY ARE DROWN.  WHEN I GET THERE.  ANOTHER WAY I LIKE TO TRAP FOX IS WITH MANY TRAPS SET AROUND IN A CIRCLE UNDER A HANGING RAT BODY AND WHEN THEY TRY TO JUMP UP AND EAT THE RAT THEY STEP IN THE TRAPS AND I HAVE CAUGHT THEM WITH ALL FEET IN THE TRAPS I CHECK THE TRAPS EVERY DAY AND USE A CLUB TO KILL THE FOX.  THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE A HOLE TO HURT THE PELT.  THE MOST OF THE TIME DIDN'T HAVE TO SKIN OUT THE FOX THE FUR BUYER WANTED TO DO IT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT HOLES IN THE HIDE.  BUT THE SNARES I USE ARE GOOD ONES.  NOT THE OLD KIND BUT THE NEW KIND MADE OUT OF SMALL CABLE AND BENT WASHERS WITH LOOPS.  I HOPE THIS HAS GIVEN SOME PEOPLE A FEW IDEAS TO TRAP WITH OUT A LOT OF MONEY OUT PUT.  FOR TRAPS.  UNTIL LATER JON TOWNS HIV 944.
  WindWalker <[e-mail]> wrote:


Until later Jon Towns


Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
--0-1035543119-1013839206=:35891
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<P><FONT color=maroon size=5>WELL WINDWALKER,  YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT SNARES I HAVE TRAPED WITH SNARES AND HAVE CAUGHT FOX.  COYOTES, AND DOGS.  I HAVE NEVER KILLED A DOG BECAUSE THE HAVE BEEN TIED UP BEFORE AND MOSTLY DON'T FIGHT THE SNARE.  I TRY NEVER TO TRAP NEAR HOUSES AND IF I GET A PET IS BECAUSE THE OWNER ISN'T DOING THEIR PART KEEPING THEM HOME.  I RATHER TRAP BEAVER AND MUSKRATS.  THEY WORK REAL GOOD.  MOST OF THE TIME THEY ARE DROWN.  WHEN I GET THERE.  ANOTHER WAY I LIKE TO TRAP FOX IS WITH MANY TRAPS SET AROUND IN A CIRCLE UNDER A HANGING RAT BODY AND WHEN THEY TRY TO JUMP UP AND EAT THE RAT THEY STEP IN THE TRAPS AND I HAVE CAUGHT THEM WITH ALL FEET IN THE TRAPS I CHECK THE TRAPS EVERY DAY AND USE A CLUB TO KILL THE FOX.  THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE A HOLE TO HURT THE PELT.  THE MOST OF THE TIME DIDN'T HAVE TO SKIN OUT THE FOX THE FUR BUYER WANTED TO DO IT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT HOLES IN THE HIDE.  BUT THE SNARES I USE ARE GOOD ONES.  NOT THE OLD KIND BUT THE NEW KIND MADE OUT OF SMALL CABLE AND BENT WASHERS WITH LOOPS.  I HOPE THIS HAS GIVEN SOME PEOPLE A FEW IDEAS TO TRAP WITH OUT A LOT OF MONEY OUT PUT.  FOR TRAPS.  UNTIL LATER JON TOWNS HIV 944.  </FONT>
<P>  <B><I>WindWalker <[e-mail]></I></B> wrote: </P><BR><BR><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4>Until later Jon Towns</FONT><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/oly">Yahoo! Sports</a> - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
--0-1035543119-1013839206=:35891--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 21:21:42 -0800

  Some of the best shooting advice I ever received is this (relates to what
Cap't. said);  I used to shoulder my firearm, then lean my neck over to
look down the sights.  Some one pointed out to me this technique;  (this is
for a right handed shooter, reverse for lefties)  think of yourself as a
canon carriage, the rifle is the canon barrel. Face your target.  point
your left foot towards your target.  Stand at a comfortable stance somewhat
sideways to the target. (left shoulder towards target) stand with right
foot somewhat perpendicular to the target.  place butt of gun in the crook
of arm between shoulder and biceps muscle.  firmly grasp wrist of gun with
right hand, and pull stock into place.  The point is the right hand should
do most of the holding.  rest barrel on left hand at balance point of gun.
now, standing erect facing the target raise right elbow so that right upper
arm is horizontal. this should bring the sight picture up to your line of
sight (while standing straight and true).  Now, sight, then close your eyes
for a second while holding the gun true.  Then open your eyes, if you have
swayed off target, adjust your 'carriage' (ie your body stance...feet). and
try the close eye, open eye thing again, until you continue to hold true.
Then you are ready to shoot.  This technique improved my shooting ability
with a flintlock immensely.  A couple of expert flinter shooters taught me
his technique.  I hope my words convey a good enough mental image.  When I
first started shooting flinters, I was terrible.  Now, after expert
advise...I am quite mediocre.  Hope this helps someone.    hardtack


> [Original Message]
> From: rtlahti <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
 > Date: 2/15/02 7:03:38 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
>
> C.Kent,
>
> Off list works but on list and we have a fairly safe topic to discuss. <G>
>
> I found that shooting a Tulle' requires a more upright stance to the head
> rather than any tendency to "lean" into the gun/stock. Leaning in seems to
> lay one's self open for a "French kiss". A good friend gave up on his
Tulle'
> a number of years before I got one for that reason. His shooting style is
> more in tune with shooing an M1 Garand (getting in close). I didn't have
any
> problem because I tend to mount the stock and hold my head more upright
> (back away from the tang/comb etc. area). Just my experience and it may or
> may not apply to anyone else. I'm sure overloading will also contribute to
> that with excess recoil. It does not take a hot load to do good work with
> the Tulle'.
>
> As to wringing out good accuracy, I find that in my Centermark Tulle', a
.60
> ball patched with something as thin as bed sheet works ok. I have gone to
> making that combination into what is called a Jager patched Ball. The
patch
> material is gathered around the ball and tied off with a clove hitch at
the
> sprue. The excess is cut close to the knot. The patched ball is then
dipped
> in melted grease or olive oil to thoroughly prelude it. They thus can be
> carried in a ball bag and "tipped" out as needed. That combination seems
to
> go down fairly easily and comes out with surprising accuracy. I have no
idea
> whether the patching falls off or not but it doesn't seem to matter. I've
> hit a 9 inch gong at close to 100 yards off hand a number of times in a
row
> with that method so I'm convinced that it provides good accuracy.
>
> I usually use about 75/80 grains of 3f since I prime from the main horn
and
> 3f works fine for priming powder as well as a main charge.
>
> Another way to attain excellent accuracy if you have the time to go
through
> it all is to load powder, then a fiber cushion wad, then the ball, topped
> with a card wad. The procedure is as follows to keep the ball sprue up
which
> is usually conceded as desirable.
>
>  Pour powder, start a cushion wad, push cushion wad down with the ball
until
> the ball is flush sprue up. Place a card wad on the ball and push all
three
> elements down with the ram rod onto the powder. I find this works
extremely
> well in any smooth bore in that it allows the use of a close to bore size
> ball which normally is hard to put down with a patch and the wad under the
> ball seals the gases behind the ball and does not allow blow by which is
the
> enemy of smooth bore accuracy or any muzzle loader accuracy for that
matter.
>
> All that is left is to practice with your sight picture until you "groove"
> it the same each time. There are no secrets to that other than practice.
> Hope that helps.
>
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text lis

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Mountain Trapper  NOT!!
Date: 15 Feb 2002 23:46:18 -0500

Did you ever feel like a greenhorn?  Well I did today.  Driving to Albany Georgia today I passed three vehicle hit coyotes.  By the time I could turn around to go back and pick them up it was 20 miles, so I passed on them.

Well, I made myself a promise that if I see a beaver or bobcat, I'm gonna stop.  50 miles down the road I see a big black log with a pointy tail.  I take the next exit (two miles) and go back and get in the medium.  Whoa and behold, a monster otter.  This is the king of all otters.

I threw him in the back of the truck (f-150) and I notice that his nose or what is left of it was touching one side of the bed while his tail is touching the other.  Workers on the job site mention that this is the largest they have ever seen and tried to buy the darned thing from me.

Not being a trapper, at lunch I decide to case skin this monster.  Not going to happen.  I felt like I did the first time I ever gutted a deer.  Duh, what do I do.  I quickly learned that "I" could not case skin a critter that was this broken up on the inside.  So I slit him down his belly and ran into a few things.  Swamp oysters.  This was indeed the King of Otters.

I managed to skin him okay, kept the feet on and started the hide right behind the eyes as the face was kind of torn up.

He is in the freezer right now.  His weight was 35 to 40 lbs and he was well over 60" long.  Is this a big otter compared to the otters found in the Rockies?  I was going to make a blanket out of him, but that is a bit of an exageration.  I am just going to make a cape.

Here is another project.

Frank V. Rago

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 16 Feb 2002 13:24:44 EST


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In a message dated 2/15/2002 8:26:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Pour powder, start a cushion wad, push cushion wad down with the ball until
> the ball is flush sprue up. Place a card wad on the ball and push all three
> elements down with the ram rod onto the powder.

This is the method I use in my Centermark as well, both for ball and buck 'n
ball, which may be wasteful but impressive when target shooting.  There's
nothing like a whole bunch of holes appearing in the target at one time <GGG>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Mountain Trapper  NOT!!
Date: 16 Feb 2002 10:37:05 -0500

<I am just going to make a cape.
>Frank V. Rago

Frank,

Congrats on finding yoru otter!!!  Don't hear of too many down our way trapping otters anymore so not much of anyone working their hides.

Tell me how the fleshing goes!!!  Mr. T. Cissell of the GA CoHT has a brother who is a furrier and can really do wonders with pelts.  He may give you a bit of advice to make that thing come out really prime since it sounds like a one of a kind find!!!

-C.Kent

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Learning some trapping skills
Date: 16 Feb 2002 01:22:16 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Greets
I used to trap alot longlining. But have slowed over the years.
For fox I like the mound set in open country
I never would sell in carcuss.
cause buyer always deducted for that, I fleshed my own
That way I knew he would not try the ole "blue skin bit"
Trapped alot of Beaver once using the #330 conibear
I good trap indeed. Even wolf trapped up North, made good money at it, =
as was running a 35 mile long line. Also had some Martin cubbies set. =
Did fair at that.
Never caught a "Little Bear" i.e Wolverine.. nd really didnt want to.
I think I still got maybe 12 dozen traps left, packbasket ect.
Like trapping Beaver and roast beaver is good !
The tails cooked up like beef tongue and that is a treat indeed.
Made some good funds when the red fox was running $85 years ago and =
remember when muskrat was $9???
Them times shine..
We tryied to canoe a river as much as we could when up north except in =
winter then we used dogsled for most part
Later when we took on larger line we went snowmbile route
Did the longlines in 4 western states, did well, but alot of travel by =
road... so it offset profits
I always saved my castor for scent/bait.
Coons/Beaver/Otter used drowning sets
Wolf used drags.
The snares are ideal for wolf and fox, although as you noted one has to =
be careful indeed.
We also used a float set using regular rat traps for muskrats
did real well with them.
Think people nowdays have little interest in trapping or its =
rewards...{kids get allowances now days}
I still run lines from time to time..
At one time is was nothing to go longlining for 3 months straight.... =
really enjoyed it...
I get a regular Trapping magazine every month.. and prices have been low =
for years.
Wolf one time would bring $800 in northern regions..
And Beaver plew in hoop $90=20
Think Beaver is about 25 right now..
Am member of ATA CTA and Fur trappers of America
Used to attend the fur auctions every year in MN and St Lou
Every year looked forward to trap dying and waxing... getting ready ect, =
always tryied to combine hunting while running lines... sometimes it =
worked well.
Our daughter at 14 was running her own line and it was a overnighter.. =
she did well.
In Fl {our regular home} We still  get called on to trap Gator from time =
to time. The rivers creeks are full of them..
Our area also has Panther, although we never bothered with them {we did =
some in AZ years ago.
Low water creeks, we use Scent sticks for Beaver and it works well, when =
used with drowning wire..
Under Ice is another matter, but can be productive..
Try squirrel trapping sometime, you will have a blast
lash a pole {small} between two trees bout  ft off ground

place corn bait pan {ole pot pie pan} in center of pole.
Use Heavy nylon fishing line for snares.. place about 3 on each side of =
pan bout 2 ft apart use a small stick tacked to pole to help hold snares =
{popcycle stick works great}
along pole.. bait come back in morning... Ive had as many as 6 caught at =
a time...Then fall off pole in snare and thats it for them....Easy way =
to get squirrel stew...Sold alot of squirrel skins to Herters Co.. I =
think now they to are a thing of the past..
well enough of a ole mans ramblings....
Ps homemade snares from 1/8th in aircraft cable work great ! Use slip =
washer and  small "L" sheet metal for lock..
Now wheres my fleshing board? <grin>
Sam

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jon Towns=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 1:00 AM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Learning some trapping skills


  WELL WINDWALKER,  YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT SNARES I HAVE TRAPED WITH SNARES =
AND HAVE CAUGHT FOX.  COYOTES, AND DOGS.  I HAVE NEVER KILLED A DOG =
BECAUSE THE HAVE BEEN TIED UP BEFORE AND MOSTLY DON'T FIGHT THE SNARE.  =
I TRY NEVER TO TRAP NEAR HOUSES AND IF I GET A PET IS BECAUSE THE OWNER =
ISN'T DOING THEIR PART KEEPING THEM HOME.  I RATHER TRAP BEAVER AND =
MUSKRATS.  THEY WORK REAL GOOD.  MOST OF THE TIME THEY ARE DROWN.  WHEN =
I GET THERE.  ANOTHER WAY I LIKE TO TRAP FOX IS WITH MANY TRAPS SET =
AROUND IN A CIRCLE UNDER A HANGING RAT BODY AND WHEN THEY TRY TO JUMP UP =
AND EAT THE RAT THEY STEP IN THE TRAPS AND I HAVE CAUGHT THEM WITH ALL =
FEET IN THE TRAPS I CHECK THE TRAPS EVERY DAY AND USE A CLUB TO KILL THE =
FOX.  THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE A HOLE TO HURT THE PELT.  THE MOST OF THE =
TIME DIDN'T HAVE TO SKIN OUT THE FOX THE FUR BUYER WANTED TO DO IT =
BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT HOLES IN THE HIDE.  BUT THE SNARES I USE ARE GOOD =
ONES.  NOT THE OLD KIND BUT THE NEW KIND MADE OUT OF SMALL CABLE AND =
BENT WASHERS WITH LOOPS.  I HOPE THIS HAS GIVEN SOME PEOPLE A FEW IDEAS =
TO TRAP WITH OUT A LOT OF MONEY OUT PUT.  FOR TRAPS.  UNTIL LATER JON =
TOWNS HIV 944. =20

    WindWalker <[e-mail]> wrote:=20



  Until later Jon Towns




-----
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  Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greets</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I used to trap alot longlining. But =
have slowed=20
over the years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For fox I like the mound set in open=20
country</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I never would sell in =
carcuss.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cause buyer always deducted for that, I =
fleshed my=20
own</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That way I knew he would not try the =
ole "blue skin=20
bit"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trapped alot of Beaver once using the =
#330=20
conibear</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I good trap indeed. Even wolf trapped =
up North,=20
made good money at it, as was running a 35 mile long line. Also had some =
Martin=20
cubbies set. Did fair at that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Never caught a "Little Bear" i.e =
Wolverine.. nd=20
really didnt want to.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think I still got maybe 12 dozen =
traps left,=20
packbasket ect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Like trapping Beaver and roast beaver =
is good=20
!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The tails cooked up like beef tongue =
and that is a=20
treat indeed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Made some good funds when the red fox =
was running=20
$85 years ago and remember when muskrat was $9???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Them times shine..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We tryied to canoe a river as much as =
we could when=20
up north except in winter then we used dogsled for most =
part</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Later when we took on larger line we =
went snowmbile=20
route</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Did the longlines in 4 western states, =
did well,=20
but alot of travel by road... so it offset profits</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I always saved my castor for=20
scent/bait.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Coons/Beaver/Otter used drowning =
sets</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wolf used drags.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The snares are ideal for wolf and fox, =
although as=20
you noted one has to be careful indeed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We also used a float set using regular =
rat traps=20
for muskrats</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>did real well with them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Think people nowdays have little =
interest in=20
trapping or its rewards...{kids get allowances now days}</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I still run lines from time to =
time..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At one time is was nothing to go =
longlining for 3=20
months straight.... really enjoyed it...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I get a regular Trapping magazine every =
month.. and=20
prices have been low for years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wolf one time would bring $800 in =
northern=20
regions..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And Beaver plew in hoop $90 =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Think Beaver is about 25 right =
now..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Am member of ATA CTA and Fur trappers =
of=20
America</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Used to attend the fur auctions every =
year in MN=20
and St Lou</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Every year looked forward to trap dying =
and=20
waxing... getting ready ect, always tryied to combine hunting while =
running=20
lines... sometimes it worked well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Our daughter at 14 was running her own =
line and it=20
was a overnighter.. she did well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In Fl {our regular home} We still  =
get called=20
on to trap Gator from time to time. The rivers creeks are full of=20
them..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Our area also has Panther, although we =
never=20
bothered with them {we did some in AZ years ago.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Low water creeks, we use Scent sticks =
for Beaver=20
and it works well, when used with drowning wire..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Under Ice is another matter, but can be =

productive..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Try squirrel trapping sometime, you =
will have a=20
blast</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>lash a pole {small} between two trees =
bout  ft=20
off ground</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>place corn bait pan {ole pot pie pan} =
in center of=20
pole.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Use Heavy nylon fishing line for =
snares.. place=20
about 3 on each side of pan bout 2 ft apart use a small stick tacked to =
pole to=20
help hold snares {popcycle stick works great}</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>along pole.. bait come back in =
morning... Ive had=20
as many as 6 caught at a time...Then fall off pole in snare and thats it =
for=20
them....Easy way to get squirrel stew...Sold alot of squirrel skins to =
Herters=20
Co.. I think now they to are a thing of the past..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>well enough of a ole mans=20
ramblings....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ps homemade snares from 1/8th in =
aircraft cable=20
work great ! Use slip washer and  small "L" sheet metal for=20
lock..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now wheres my fleshing board?=20
<grin></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sam</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail] href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">Jon =
Towns</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 16, =
2002 1:00=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: =
Learning some=20
  trapping skills</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <P><FONT color=3Dmaroon size=3D5>WELL WINDWALKER,  YOU ARE RIGHT =
ABOUT SNARES=20
  I HAVE TRAPED WITH SNARES AND HAVE CAUGHT FOX.  COYOTES, AND =
DOGS. =20
  I HAVE NEVER KILLED A DOG BECAUSE THE HAVE BEEN TIED UP BEFORE AND =
MOSTLY=20
  DON'T FIGHT THE SNARE.  I TRY NEVER TO TRAP NEAR HOUSES AND IF I =
GET A=20
  PET IS BECAUSE THE OWNER ISN'T DOING THEIR PART KEEPING THEM =
HOME.  I=20
  RATHER TRAP BEAVER AND MUSKRATS.  THEY WORK REAL GOOD.  MOST =
OF THE=20
  TIME THEY ARE DROWN.  WHEN I GET THERE.  ANOTHER WAY I LIKE =
TO TRAP=20
  FOX IS WITH MANY TRAPS SET AROUND IN A CIRCLE UNDER A HANGING RAT BODY =
AND=20
  WHEN THEY TRY TO JUMP UP AND EAT THE RAT THEY STEP IN THE TRAPS AND I =
HAVE=20
  CAUGHT THEM WITH ALL FEET IN THE TRAPS I CHECK THE TRAPS EVERY DAY AND =
USE A=20
  CLUB TO KILL THE FOX.  THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE A HOLE TO HURT THE =

  PELT.  THE MOST OF THE TIME DIDN'T HAVE TO SKIN OUT THE FOX THE =
FUR BUYER=20
  WANTED TO DO IT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT HOLES IN THE HIDE.  BUT =
THE SNARES=20
  I USE ARE GOOD ONES.  NOT THE OLD KIND BUT THE NEW KIND MADE =
OUT OF=20
  SMALL CABLE AND BENT WASHERS WITH LOOPS.  I HOPE THIS HAS GIVEN =
SOME=20
  PEOPLE A FEW IDEAS TO TRAP WITH OUT A LOT OF MONEY OUT PUT.  FOR=20
  TRAPS.  UNTIL LATER JON TOWNS HIV 944.  </FONT>
  <P>  <B><I>WindWalker <[e-mail]></I></B> =
wrote:=20
  </P><BR><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Until later Jon =
Towns</FONT>
  <P><BR>
  <HR SIZE=3D1>
  <B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR><A =
href=3D"http://sports.yahoo.com/oly">Yahoo!=20
  Sports</A> - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic =
Games</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 16 Feb 2002 02:05:50 EST


In a message dated 2/15/02 8:26:46 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I usually use about 75/80 grains of 3f since I prime from the main horn and

3f works fine for priming powder as well as a main charge.

 >>

I'm pretty much in line with the Capt....although I'm old school using 2F and
80grs. for shot and 90grs. fer buffalo. I'm sure 3F is a better deal but I
have a bunch of 2F to burn. I also differ in that I put a card over the
powder, then a wad, then a patch (.010) around a .600 rolled (no spruce) ball.
My Tulle doesn't have a rear site, but the tang screw is kinda in line with
where I want to look... I do have a tendency to shoot a bit low from where I
hold, but a file could fix that...
I also think if I could have only one gun, the Tulle would be it.
Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Fort Vancouver
Date: 17 Feb 2002 13:36:02 EST

Klahowya Boys,

I spent most of the morning yesterday with ow Jerry Glaskow (sp) at Fort
Vancouver. It was the first time I've had a chance to meet him (he's close to
my camp on business from Calif.) and we had a great visit touring the Fort.
It was a Saturday, so there were many volunteers to show us around and Jerry
got to meet some fine people. There were also some wimmins in the Factor's
kitchen that could not only cook, but they sure were nice to look at....! The
prettiest cook fell for the old "I'll bring the buffalo if you cook it"
approach....<G>  ...so we also got an invite to attend the encampment in
July.

I think there's a few on the List that are working on, (or going to start)
rebuilding a Fort, and wanted information on building the walls. To prevent
the water (and it does rain a bit in the NW) from rotting the 15 feet tall
stockade post's (Douglas fir and pine) they appear to be wrapped in a heavy
tar paper, and set in a coarse gravel. This apparently is enough to allow the
water to drain below the buried ends, and stop the rot from forming. I can
talk to the fort engineer's and find out exactly how it was done if anyone is
interested.

Next on the list of things to do, is a sold out, four day class on Lewis and
Clark, held in Portland next week. Kamosuk (Gene Hickman) is driving over
from Montana with the L&C Honor Guard, and I'll go to the symposium with
them....sounds to be very interesting, and great fun.

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Jean's services
Date: 17 Feb 2002 21:16:29 -0600

I talked to Laura Jean's husband tonight and he confirmed that she will be
interred in San Marcos on Saturday, March 2.  He said the whole family would
be tremendously pleased and thankful if any of us were there, dressed in our
best, to honor her and to give her a send off she would enjoy.  I will have
a supply of Jack Daniels...her favorite.....for all to toast her life and to
pour a shot on her grave.  I promise she would have loved it.  If anybody
intends to come to San Marcos I would appreciate it if you let me know.
I hope to stop after the funeral at Kreutz's Market in Lockhart to eat a
little barbecue, too.  Laura Jean thought this was the best bbq place in the
world, and would want us to speak her name there.
I know we all have other lives, and most of you didn't know Laura Jean, so
no one is expected to  attend the funeral. I just wanted to make it clear
that the family would welcome anybody who did want to come.  My wife and I
will be there to represent everybody.
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Trapper  NOT!!
Date: 17 Feb 2002 16:01:10 -0500

FRANK---
nice you saved that big otter skin---sure wish i had one---but i would
sincerely suggest you do a bit of checking in your local area you
live---some areas it's not legal to catch or possess otters---in some
areas of the US they are considered as endangered species---like eagles
and egal feathers---those feathers can cost you $1000 a piece or more if
they are not legal ones------and in some areas its legal to trap otters
and such---also there is a season for trapping when it is legal---it gets
kina hard to explain where and when you got a nice pelt like that to a
game and fish guy if they saw itor began to question you about it---the
game and fish guys came thru friendship a few years back and relly played
havvock with some of the hide---hair claw and such peddlers---most otter
skins wolf skins i have seen for sale come from canida and alaska and
have a number inscribed inside them to verify that they are legal---dont
want to pour gass on a fire but you might do some checking befor you do
anything with the skin---and as i say in some states it is legal to trap
and in some states it is not---in some states it is against the law to
have specific animal parts in your possession.in florida i believe that
otters are protected in some areas--

sorry pard just wanted to make you awair of the neat thing you have in
your possession---may or may not be a problem---

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Jean
Date: 17 Feb 2002 13:43:29 -0600

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Laura Jean Glise passed away early on Saturday morning. See the message =
from her brother appended below this post.=20
Her husband told me that there will be a memorial service in San Marcos, =
Texas (near Austin). I will post the details when I find them out.  =20
I know that she would have wanted all of us, her "mountain friends",  to =
be there to see her off.  If you can't be there I will be there and will =
stand for you.  You can post any messages to my email address =
[e-mail]  or you can send cards and letters to my house and =
I will deliver them (and printed out emails) to her family.
We have lost a true friend.
YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff
1008 North Robinson
Cleburne, TX  76031


----- Original Message -----=20
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 2:28 PM


Dear Lanny,

This Laura Jean's brother, Charles Rugel.

I'm very sorry to be telling you via email of Laura's passing last =
night.  She went in peace with no fear and no pain.  I know that you =
were good friends.  Phillip told me that he has left you a message this =
morning so this is a just in case message.

Most of my family has been contacted and the word is slowly getting out. =
 I would like to ask you help in getting the news to her Rendezvous =
friends that you shared.  We have no details yet as to plans for =
services or memorials.  We'll get that word out as things firm up.

Thank you for the friendship that my sister cherished and for the =
fellowship of her mountain men cohorts that she so enjoyed.

Sincerely,

Charles Rugel=20

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Laura Jean Glise passed away early on Saturday=20
morning. See the message from her brother appended below =
this=20
post. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Her husband told me that there will be a =
memorial service=20
in San Marcos, Texas (near Austin). I will post the details when I find =
them=20
out.   </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I know that she would have wanted all of us, =
her=20
"mountain friends",  to be there to see her off.  If you can't =
be=20
there I will be there and will stand for you.  You can post =
any=20
messages to my email address <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>  or =
you can=20
send cards and letters to my house and I will deliver them (and printed =
out=20
emails) to her family.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>We have lost a true friend.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>YMOS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney Ratcliff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>1008 North Robinson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cleburne, TX  76031</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=[e-mail] =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=[e-mail]=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 16, 2002 2:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Laura Jean</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial =
size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Dear Lanny,<BR><BR>This Laura Jean's brother, =
Charles=20
Rugel.<BR><BR>I'm very sorry to be telling you via email of Laura's =
passing last=20
night.  She went in peace with no fear and no pain.  I know =
that you=20
were good friends.  Phillip told me that he has left you a message =
this=20
morning so this is a just in case message.<BR><BR>Most of my family has =
been=20
contacted and the word is slowly getting out.  I would like to ask =
you help=20
in getting the news to her Rendezvous friends that you shared.  We =
have no=20
details yet as to plans for services or memorials.  We'll get that =
word out=20
as things firm up.<BR><BR>Thank you for the friendship that my sister =
cherished=20
and for the fellowship of her mountain men cohorts that she so=20
enjoyed.<BR><BR>Sincerely,<BR><BR>Charles Rugel</FONT> =
</FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C1B7B9.154A2CE0--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Jean's Services
Date: 17 Feb 2002 15:28:02 -0600

The tentative schedule for services for Laura Jean is (1) a service in
Olympia, Washington followed by (2) services in Newnan, GA, where the family
lived for 17 years before moving to Washington and (3) services in San
Marcos, Texas on March 2.  The Texas services will probably include a
service at either the funeral home or the Presbyterian church, followed by a
graveside service.  I will post more later.
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Trapper  NOT!!
Date: 18 Feb 2002 10:36:18 -0500

Greets
Hawk is totally right on having certain animals and or parts
although Native Americans can have parts with documentation from state...in
most cases..
Run into this few years back on a griz claw necklace.
Otter is protected in some states...
I think {not sure} certain items can be had if documentation is had from the
Native source
Dont get caught in Fl woth Panther parts... big time trouble..
Sam
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 4:01 PM


> FRANK---
> nice you saved that big otter skin---sure wish i had one---but i would
> sincerely suggest you do a bit of checking in your local area you
> live---some areas it's not legal to catch or possess otters---in some
> areas of the US they are considered as endangered species---like eagles
> and egal feathers---those feathers can cost you $1000 a piece or more if
> they are not legal ones------and in some areas its legal to trap otters
> and such---also there is a season for trapping when it is legal---it gets
> kina hard to explain where and when you got a nice pelt like that to a
> game and fish guy if they saw itor began to question you about it---the
> game and fish guys came thru friendship a few years back and relly played
> havvock with some of the hide---hair claw and such peddlers---most otter
> skins wolf skins i have seen for sale come from canida and alaska and
> have a number inscribed inside them to verify that they are legal---dont
> want to pour gass on a fire but you might do some checking befor you do
> anything with the skin---and as i say in some states it is legal to trap
> and in some states it is not---in some states it is against the law to
> have specific animal parts in your possession.in florida i believe that
> otters are protected in some areas--
>
> sorry pard just wanted to make you awair of the neat thing you have in
> your possession---may or may not be a problem---
>
> "HAWK"
> Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
> Arkansas Underhammers"
> 854 Glenfield Dr
> Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
> e-mail: [e-mail]   web
> site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> ----------------------
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>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who shoots a Tulle?
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:23:43 EST

<<if I could have only one gun, the Tulle would be it.
Magpie >>

Well said, I use 75 grains 3F, load and prime from one horn.   .60 ball with pillow ticking patch and have not found a ball in a deer yet at 50 yard or less.  I still hunt and don't like shooting if I can't get in close.

But I have also loaded in a timed shoot with most balls in the paper plate at 30 yards, where I used powder and ball no patching and it is amazing how many shots hit the plate compared to the careful loading shooters on line with me.  So even unpatched I would say you can make meat of save your scalp.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T.Oakes

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Trapper  NOT!!
Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:32:12 -0500

Thanks Guys,

Luckily when I saw the critter on the road, I checked the trapping and hunting laws that I carry.  In Georgia, otter trapping is legal.  Now, I did find him on the last day of the trapping season.  Lucky for me, but I have contacted the local WMA / DNR manager and he is getting back with me later this week.

The DNR manager knows I am an upstanding guy and if it is illegal, I have no problem donating it to the local Cherokee museum.  Just a shame to let such a monster get trashed on the road.  Critters this big need to be immortalized.

In Georgia, ya better not buy or sell any black bear parts.  You can have bear parts if you kill the bear, but that is it.  A gent at a rendezvous 4 years ago tried to trade me a bear skin.  Almost made the trade but a kindly old buckskinner set this greenhorn straight.

I will let ya'll know how it works out.

Thanks,

Frank






[e-mail] wrote:
> Greets
Hawk is totally right on having certain animals and or parts
although Native Americans can have parts with documentation from state...in
most cases..
Run into this few years back on a griz claw necklace.
Otter is protected in some states...
I think {not sure} certain items can be had if documentation is had from the
Native source
Dont get caught in Fl woth Panther parts... big time trouble..
Sam
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 4:01 PM


> FRANK---
> nice you saved that big otter skin---sure wish i had one---but i would
> sincerely suggest you do a bit of checking in your local area you
> live---some areas it's not legal to catch or possess otters---in some
> areas of the US they are considered as endangered species---like eagles
> and egal feathers---those feathers can cost you $1000 a piece or more if
> they are not legal ones------and in some areas its legal to trap otters
> and such---also there is a season for trapping when it is legal---it gets
> kina hard to explain where and when you got a nice pelt like that to a
> game and fish guy if they saw itor began to question you about it---the
> game and fish guys came thru friendship a few years back and relly played
> havvock with some of the hide---hair claw and such peddlers---most otter
> skins wolf skins i have seen for sale come from canida and alaska and
> have a number inscribed inside them to verify that they are legal---dont
> want to pour gass on a fire but you might do some checking befor you do
> anything with the skin---and as i say in some states it is legal to trap
> and in some states it is not---in some states it is against the law to
> have specific animal parts in your possession.in florida i believe that
> otters are protected in some areas--
>
> sorry pard just wanted to make you awair of the neat thing you have in
> your possession---may or may not be a problem---
>
> "HAWK"
> Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
> Arkansas Underhammers"
> 854 Glenfield Dr
> Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
> e-mail: [e-mail]   web
> site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Site Update
Date: 18 Feb 2002 12:04:50 -0500

Sorry for any cross-posting & crass shameless self promotion... I have a
rather large site update, mostly on the knife page.
If you want to take a look... Go to
http://www.bright.net/~deforge1

Thanks Much
D

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
       Knives and Iron Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1

   "Knowing how is just the beginning."

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From: "traprjon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mountain Trapper  NOT!!
Date: 19 Feb 2002 11:47:36 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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> I threw him in the back of the truck (f-150) and I notice that his =
nose or what is left of it was touching one side of the bed while his =
tail is touching the other.  Workers on the job site mention that this =
is the largest they have ever seen and tried to buy the darned thing =
from me.

    Ho Frank, That does indeed sound like a bigun!!!  A pelt to be proud =
of. =20

> I managed to skin him okay, kept the feet on and started the hide =
right behind the eyes as the face was kind of torn up.

    Sounds like you did the best that could be done with the otter, =
given the circumstances!!!  You will need to flesh it at some point =
before you tan it.  The easiest way I have found to flesh otter is with =
a 6" fleshing beam and a good fleshing knife.  Make sure that there are =
no burrs or pine pitch or anything in the fur before fleshing, or a burr =
will cause you to tear a hole in the hide. =20
    Also (Maybe the most important thing) Handle the fur side just as =
little as possible with your hands until the hide is tanned.  Stroking =
or much handling the fur of an otter will cause the ends of the fur to =
bend or turn at an angle and is called "singed" because it looks just =
like you got it too close to a fire and the hair singed!!!  Not only =
does this detract from the looks of a fine pelt, but if it was to be =
sold to a fur buyer or auction, would greatly reduce the value of the =
pelt. =20

> He is in the freezer right now.  I am just going to make a cape.
> Frank V. Rago =20

Good luck with the cape, it should be a beauty!!!  Sorry I am so late =
commenting here, I just got back from a long weekend away last night and =
had so much e-mail, I am just getting to this one. =20
Sincerely,
John Enos
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]=20
"The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished =
liberty,=20
is that it was lost because it's possessors failed to stretch forth a =
saving hand,=20
while yet there was time."    -- Justice George Sutherland, 1938=20

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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4913.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"">
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>> I threw him in the =
back of the=20
truck (f-150) and I notice that his nose or what is left of it was =
touching one=20
side of the bed while his tail is touching the other.  Workers on =
the job=20
site mention that this is the largest they have ever seen and tried to =
buy the=20
darned thing from me.<BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>    Ho Frank, That does indeed sound =
like a=20
bigun!!!  A pelt to be proud of.  <BR><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D3></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>> I managed to skin =
him okay, kept=20
the feet on and started the hide right behind the eyes as the face was =
kind of=20
torn up.<BR></DIV></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D4>
<DIV>    Sounds like you did the best that could be done =
with the=20
otter, given the circumstances!!!  You will need to flesh it at =
some point=20
before you tan it.  The easiest way I have found to flesh otter is =
with a=20
6" fleshing beam and a good fleshing knife.  Make sure that there =
are no=20
burrs or pine pitch or anything in the fur before fleshing, or a burr =
will cause=20
you to tear a hole in the hide.  </DIV>
<DIV>    Also (Maybe the most important thing) Handle the =
fur=20
side just as little as possible with your hands until the hide is =
tanned. =20
Stroking or much handling the fur of an otter will cause the ends of the =
fur to=20
bend or turn at an angle and is called "singed" because it looks just =
like you=20
got it too close to a fire and the hair singed!!!  Not only does =
this=20
detract from the looks of a fine pelt, but if it was to be sold to a fur =
buyer=20
or auction, would greatly reduce the value of the pelt.  </DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>> He is in the freezer right =
now.  I am=20
just going to make a cape.<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>> =
Frank V.=20
Rago  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D4>Good luck with=20
the cape, it should be a beauty!!!  Sorry I am so late commenting =
here, I=20
just got back from a long weekend away last night and had =
so much=20
e-mail, I am just getting to this one.  </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D4>Sincerely,<BR>John Enos<BR>TrapRJohn<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> <BR>"The =
saddest epitaph=20
which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty, <BR>is that it was =
lost=20
because it's possessors failed to stretch forth a saving hand, <BR>while =
yet=20
there was time."    -- Justice George Sutherland, 1938=20
<BR></FONT></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Jean's Washington Funeral
Date: 19 Feb 2002 07:05:48 -0600

Laura Jean's funeral is being directed by Woodlawn Funeral Home, Lacey, WA,
360-491-3000.
Phillip Glise, also know as Colonel Glise, is commander of a Brigade at Ft
Lewis and Phillip told me the Laura's funeral will be attended by the entire
Brigade.  He is nearing retirement from the Army and since it is customary
to present the wife of a retiring Brigade commander with a medal.......I am
sure he said Legion of Merit........ the army will present the medal
posthumously.  I think this is rock solid awesome.
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Shooting Stance
Date: 19 Feb 2002 21:23:53 -0700

Hardtack,

You gave some good advice on the way to stand while shooting.  I tried
the close the eye thing but fairly consistantly find my aim has lowered
not moved left or right.  Is there something to do to correct that?

Wynn Ormond

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laura Jean's Washington Funeral
Date: 19 Feb 2002 15:23:28 -0500

thanks pard for the input---wish i could be there


HAWK--

On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 07:05:48 -0600 "Lanney Ratcliff"
<[e-mail]> writes:
> Laura Jean's funeral is being directed by Woodlawn Funeral Home,
> Lacey, WA,
> 360-491-3000.
> Phillip Glise, also know as Colonel Glise, is commander of a Brigade
> at Ft
> Lewis and Phillip told me the Laura's funeral will be attended by
> the entire
> Brigade.  He is nearing retirement from the Army and since it is
> customary
> to present the wife of a retiring Brigade commander with a
> medal.......I am
> sure he said Legion of Merit........ the army will present the
> medal
> posthumously.  I think this is rock solid awesome.
> Lanney Ratcliff
> [e-mail]
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 20 Feb 2002 00:31:33 EST


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Say, I posted the article on trapper productivity about a week agao but have
seen no reposne to it.  Did anyone read it?  Surely it wasn't so good that no
one wanted to rebut it? <grin>

Jim Hardee

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Say, I posted the article on trapper productivity about a week agao but have seen no reposne to it.  Did anyone read it?  Surely it wasn't so good that no one wanted to rebut it? <grin><BR>
<BR>
Jim Hardee </FONT></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Shooting Stance
Date: 20 Feb 2002 11:41:58 -0500


On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:23:53 -0700 "Gretchen Ormond"
<[e-mail]> writes:
> Hardtack,
>
> You gave some good advice on the way to stand while shooting.  I
> tried
> the close the eye thing but fairly consistantly find my aim has
> lowered
> not moved left or right.  Is there something to do to correct that?
>
> Wynn Ormond

pard---
I assume you are speaking of obtaining your natural point of aim ---if
that is what you are speaking of there is two things that can be done to
rasise the front of the barrel of your gun---one move the rear foot
slightly to the rear---this is only good for real minor ajustments---the
next thing is to move your support hand closer to your body if you need a
lot of ajustment then you may have to use your fingertips to support your
forstock that is rotate your hand where instead of sitting in the crotch
of your hand to laying on your palm with your fingers forward or even
your fingers supporting the forstock ---but remember no stress on the
fingers---the most positive bone to bone support is the steadiest and you
need to look for the position that requires less tention and is natural
in your shooting stance---remember natural is the word---

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce   "Home of the "Old Grizz  (C) product line & "the
Arkansas Underhammers"
854 Glenfield Dr
Palm Harbor,   Florida    34684             Phone: [phone]
e-mail: [e-mail]   web
site:http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 20 Feb 2002 10:13:50 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Myself I never seen it..Maybe you posted while list was down
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:31 AM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)


  Say, I posted the article on trapper productivity about a week agao =
but have seen no reposne to it.  Did anyone read it?  Surely it wasn't =
so good that no one wanted to rebut it? <grin>

  Jim Hardee=20

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Myself I never seen it..Maybe you =
posted while list=20
was down</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 20, =
2002 12:31=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Beaver =
catch=20
  (Trapper productivity)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 =
face=3DArial size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Say, I posted the article on trapper productivity =
about a=20
  week agao but have seen no reposne to it.  Did anyone read =
it? =20
  Surely it wasn't so good that no one wanted to rebut it?=20
  <grin><BR><BR>Jim Hardee =
</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 20 Feb 2002 21:50:09 EST


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In a message dated 2/20/2002 3:24:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


>  the article on trapper productivity about a week agao but have seen no
> reposne to it.  Did anyone read it?

Jim, Is it possible you posted that article during the fiasco/flood of junk
mail last week?  I'm thinking people (myself included) were mass deleting  at
the time and it got lost.  Please try it again, as things have quieted down
and it will most likely be read and responded too now.   Barney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 2/20/2002 3:24:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> the article on trapper productivity about a week agao but have seen no reposne to it.  Did anyone read it?</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Jim, Is it possible you posted that article during the fiasco/flood of junk mail last week?  I'm thinking people (myself included) were mass deleting  at the time and it got lost.  Please try it again, as things have quieted down and it will most likely be read and responded too now.   Barney</B></FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: need a little help
Date: 20 Feb 2002 20:16:45 EST

I picked a kettle at a shoot last year its brass and tin lined. how would one
go about finding out if its tin lined and not 50/50 solder.got to thinking
about it and was wondering. Anyone out there know how to tell them apart.

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
[e-mail]

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From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: mountain trapper NOT
Date: 20 Feb 2002 18:40:12 -0600

    The other Frank said,
    <You can have bear parts if you kill the bear, >

    I wear a bear claw necklace every moment of every day, have for many
years. When in period dress I have others that I wear, as do many pre-1840
re-enactors. All these claws were either purchased or given to me as gifts
at different times and places over the years.
    Does this mean that if I am attending a rendezvous in Georgia, or just
there with my single claw necklace I can be arrested?
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mountain trapper NOT
Date: 21 Feb 2002 08:57:26 EST


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In a message dated 2/20/2002 8:23:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Does this mean that if I am attending a rendezvous in Georgia, or just
> there with my single claw necklace I can be arrested?
>

It sure does Frank. The regs in effect WHERE YOU ARE, NOT WHERE YOU WERE come
into play. You better have proper documentation.

My best buddy, Dances With Wood, who has since passed on, had nesting
Redtails in his backyard for years, and attached a number of primo feathers
to his hatband.

At a rendezvous in CA, where Hawks, like rocks, are 'protected', a Fish &
Game maniac (cruising the rendezvous in plain clothes) treatened him with
citation if he didn't put them away. The F&G guy was cool enough to let him
do that, but Dances With Wood had been into the Agave juice, and didn't
appreciate the offer.

When he got indignant (a BIG mistake), explaining that the Hawks lived and
loved in HIS backyard, and the feathers fell to the ground every day, and he
WASN"T going to put the hat away, he was threatened with ARREST.

Fortunately, I prevailed over both of them, dragged the big Lug to his lodge,
threw the hat inside and then let him loose to play another day!

Barney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 2/20/2002 8:23:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Does this mean that if I am attending a rendezvous in Georgia, or just<BR>
there with my single claw necklace I can be arrested?<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
It sure does Frank. The regs in effect WHERE YOU ARE, NOT WHERE YOU WERE come into play. You better have proper documentation. <BR>
<BR>
My best buddy, Dances With Wood, who has since passed on, had nesting Redtails in his backyard for years, and attached a number of primo feathers to his hatband.<BR>
<BR>
At a rendezvous in CA, where Hawks, like rocks, are 'protected', a Fish & Game maniac (cruising the rendezvous in plain clothes) treatened him with citation if he didn't put them away. The F&G guy was cool enough to let him do that, but Dances With Wood had been into the Agave juice, and didn't appreciate the offer.<BR>
<BR>
When he got indignant (a BIG mistake), explaining that the Hawks lived and loved in HIS backyard, and the feathers fell to the ground every day, and he WASN"T going to put the hat away, he was threatened with ARREST.<BR>
<BR>
Fortunately, I prevailed over both of them, dragged the big Lug to his lodge, threw the hat inside and then let him loose to play another day!<BR>
<BR>
Barney</B></FONT></HTML>

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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: MtMan-List: ARTICLE - Trapper Productivity
Date: 20 Feb 2002 23:25:44 -0800




> [Original Message]
> From: <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
 > Date: 2/9/02 12:36:52 PM
> Subject: MtMan-List: ARTICLE - Trapper Productivity
>
> Here is the article in its entirety.  It was published in The Trapline,
vol.
> 3, #3, Spring 2000.  I hope you find it helpful.
>
>
>                             Trapper Productivity
>                                 By Jim Hardee
>
>     Records of production typically drive success in the workplace, i.e.
how
> many widgets can worker "A" turn out during a given shift?  Similarly,
> determining the production of a fur trapper, in terms of beaver pelts
> gathered, provides a better understanding of a day's effort in the
Shining
> Mountains.  Just how many skins did an average trapper take?
>     In a discussion of trapper productivity, some general assumptions
must be
> made.  For example, the length of the trapping season varied from year to
> year, depending on weather extremes, location, etc.  Usually, the season
was
> divided into a Spring and a Fall hunt, each generally lasting for two to
> three  months.  Ultimately, general averages must be used for a
statistical
> analysis of trapper productivity.
>     Nathaniel Wyeth estimated a good hunter with average success would
take
> 120 beaver skins in a year, worth in Boston or New York about $1000.
> (Chittenden. Vol. 1 p.6)  This is a nice succinct statement of a
trapper's
> average productivity equating to sixty skins per hunt or about twenty
hides
> per month.
>     Unfortunately, averages are simply that; a mathematical mid-point
between
> a high and low figure.  Warren Ferris provides an example of these highs
and
> lows.  He reported his 1831 American Fur Company brigade took from forty
to
> seventy beaver per day on Henry's Fork.  In the same breath, he described
a
> small party sent to the "Burnt Hole" on the Madison River that returned
> without success.  These numbers would have more meaning had Ferris
provided
> the number of hunters involved. (Ferris. 159-60)   Another example of the
> fickle nature of the business is Thomas Fitzpatrick's report that
Benjamin
> Bonneville's entire fall hunt in 1833 netted only 112 skins.  That is
less
> than forty skins per month for a    party consisting of 110 men. (Morgan
and
> Harris. P. 255.)
>     Examination of further examples of production can be examined to
> determine if Wyeth's estimate is on the mark.  In 1825, William Ashley
> arrived in St. Louis with one hundred packs of beaver skins.  While it is
> generally accepted that a pack weighed about ninety to one hundred
pounds,
> Ashley's packs only weighed an average of fifty-two pounds each.  This is
> according to a chart in his account book that lists the first twenty-five
> packs.  Assuming these represent the remainder, each pack contained an
> average of thirty-two beaver hides making a typical pelt weigh 1.625
pounds.
> Ashley's one hundred packs with about thirty-two hides in each one then
> equals 3200 total hides.  (Morgan. "Smith" pp. 170 - 173. Morgan "Ashley"
pp.
> 118-29. Russell. p.157.)
>     From Ashley's report, there were one hundred twenty men at the
> rendezvous.  This equates to about twenty-seven hides per man.  Yet, most
of
> the men recorded in Ashley's accounts with the trappers at the rendezvous
> show far more than this average.  The seven men under Jedediah Smith, for
> instance, average ninety-six pounds of beaver each, about one hundred and
> fifty skins.  Smith himself is credited with an amazing six hundred sixty
> eight pounds of hides.  At first glance, this is almost unbelievable, but
a
> closer examination shows he is only credited with $275.00.  With beaver
at
> $3.00 per pound, this equals about ninety two hides; a far more
reasonable
> total of pelts. (Morgan "Ashley" pp. 126.)
>     Did none of the Henry-Ashley men attain Wyeth's average?  Much of the
> confusion can be attributed to the difference in assignments of the men
in a
> trapping party.  Not all of the men are trappers, some being camp
keepers.
> These latter men generally stayed in camp to watch the stock, prepare the
> meals, dress the beaver hides and any of the other mundane activities
> required in the camp.  Ferris reports that up to half of the men in the
> mountains were camp keepers. (Ferris. pp. 361-62.)  Historian Hiram M
> Chittenden, author of "A History of the American Fur Trade of the Far
West,"
> says there was usually one camp keeper for every two trappers.
(Chittenden.
> pp. 54-55.)
>     In the brigade of men under Smith alluded to above, Ezekiel Able is
only
> credited with four pounds of beaver while most of his fellows all took
vastly
> more hides.  Able must have been such a camp keeper in this brigade.  Two
> other men, Thomas Eddie and William bell, had fifty-six and fifty pounds
> credited to their respective accounts, while the remaining four men have
well
> over one hundred pounds each.  Thomas Galbraith tallies one hundred
> eighty-nine pounds alone.  Eddie and Bell may have been camp keepers too.

> This would make three out of the eight men making up Smith's brigade
assigned
> to the role of camp keeper, which closely approximates Chittenden's
report.
>     Applying these percentages of camp keepers to the one hundred twenty
men
> at the first rendezvous increases the individual trapper's take to forty
and
> fifty-three skins per man; still far short of Wyeth's projection.  Wyeth
> apparently wrote this figure in an attempt to drum up financial backing
for a
> proposed expedition to the mountains.  Perhaps he was too optimistic.
>     In 1832, Indian John Dougherty compiled a chart indicating the
> expenditures, returns and profits in the fur trade for the fifteen-year
> period from 1815 to 1830.  The chart does not stipulate that all the
returns
> are solely from the rocky Mountain trade and does not differentiate
between
> hides obtained through trading and trapping.  Using the gross numbers in
the
> chart and applying the same three percentages of camp keepers used above,
> Dougherty indicates the annual return per man to be one hundred
twenty-five,
> one hundred eighty-six and two hundred fifty skins.  Exactly what
information
> Dougherty based his calculations on is unknown, but he appears to
anticipate
> greater returns than Wyeth does. (Chittenden. Vol. 1 p.7)
>     Perhaps looking at specific returns will reveal further information.
In
> 1826, Ashley's rendezvous in Cache Valley netted him one hundred
twenty-five
> packs that brought him $60,000 in St. Louis.  This comes out to $480 per
pack
> which, with beaver at $5.00 per pound in St. Louis, closer approximates
the
> readily accepted one hundred pound pack.  Records show there were one
hundred
> men at the second rendezvous.  Again, applying the same ratios as above,
the
> beaver taken per trapper calculates to seventy-six, one hundred fourteen
and
> one hundred fifty-three hides.  Considering camp keepers into the mix of
> trappers brings the return closer to Wyeth's estimate.  (Gowans. p. 31.
> Wishart. p. 126.)
>     Rendezvous of 1829 netted Smith, Jackson and Sublette 4,076 beaver
skins.
>  Robert Newell recalled in his memoirs that there were one hundred
> seventy-five men present.  While this number seems high, if it is
accurate,
> the success rate of the men was quite low.  Using the same calculations,
the
> average take becomes fourteen, twenty-one and twenty-eight, respectively
for
> each ratio of trapper to camp keeper.  Newell was, himself, a newcomer to
the
> Rockies, having arrived as one of the fifty-five man crew with Sublette's
> supply caravan.  If Newell included these men in his total, they should
be
> subtracted from the total attendees he says were there for they were
> obviously not involved in procuring the fifty-five packs of beaver turned
in
> at the rendezvous.  Reducing the participants to one hundred twenty
increases
> the averages to twenty-one, thirty-one and forty-one.  This is still not
> terrific but is a little better.  It is a wonder the company could stay
in
> business.
>     In a letter to Francis Ematinger, Wyeth himself provides information
> regarding two brigades that can be used in this discussion.  The brigade
> under Andrew Drips and Lucien Fontenelle arrived to the 1832 rendezvous
in
> Pierre's Hole on July 8th.  They had one hundred sixty men with them and
had
> obtained fifty-one packs of beaver at one hundred pounds each. If all the
men
> are trappers, the average take is only twenty hides per man.  If two out
of
> three are trappers, the take increases to thirty per man.  Finally, if
half
> the men are trappers, the take reaches forty skins a piece; still far
short
> of Wyeth's lofty goal for a good trapper. (Wyeth. p. 111)
>     The same letter includes date on the rocky Mountain Fur Company who
> showed up with fifty-five packs of fur but only fifty-five men.  That is
one
> pack of hides per man.  If all are trappers, that is a yearly average of
> about sixty-one beaver each.  With only two thirds of the men trapping
while
> one third attend camp, the average raises to about ninety-one per
trapper.
> If half the men are camp keepers then the average finally attains Wyeth's
> prediction of one hundred twenty pelts per trapper. (Wyeth. p. 111)
>     None of these calculations take into consideration how many hides
were
> traded for with Indians.  Also not considered is how many pelts may have
been
> stolen by Indians, lost while crossing a swollen river, spoiled by damage
to
> a hidden cache or in any other way taken but not making it to rendezvous
for
> whatever reason.  Any of these factors could effect the average take per
> trapper.
>             # HIDES             HIDES PER MAN
> YEAR        LBS.    (1.625 LB/HIDE) # MEN       ALL TR.   1/3 C.K.  1/2
C.K.
> 1825          8829      5433         120           45         68

> 91
> 1826        12500       7692         100           77       115        154
> 1829a         4076      2508         175           14         21

> 29
> 1829b         4076      2508         120           21         31

> 42
> 1832 (Drips)  5100      3138         160           20         29

> 39
> 1832 (RMF)    5500      3385           55          62         91

> 121
> Dougherty's 15 yr. Est. 25,000       200         125        167
250
>
>
>
>
> References:
> Chittenden, Hiram M. The American Fur Trade of the Far West. Vol 1.
Academic
>                 Reprints, Stanford, CA, 1954.
> Dale, Harrison. The Ashley-Smith Explorations and the Discovery of a
Central
> Route   to the Pacific. Arthur Clark Co. Glendale, CA. 1941
> Ferris, Warren A. Life in the Rocky Mountains. Old West Publishing.
Denver,
> 1983.
> Gowans, Fred. Rocky Mountain Rendezvous. Gibbs-Smith, Layton, UT. 1985.
> Harris, Eleanor T. and Morgan, Dale L. The Rocky Mountain Journals of
William
>     Marshall Anderson. Huntington Library, San Marino, CA. 1967.
> Morgan, Dale. Jedediah Smith and the Opening of the West. Bobbs-Merril,
NY.
> 1953.
> _____ . The West of William Ashley. Old West Publishing, Denver. 1964.
> Wishart, David J. The Fur Trade of the American West, 1807-1840.
University
> of  Nebraska Press, Lincoln. 1979.
> Wyeth, Nathaniel J. Journal of Captain Nathaniel J. Wyeth's Exp

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need a little help
Date: 21 Feb 2002 07:19:24 EST

They make test kits used to check the paint on plates.  It seems some of the
older china was painted with a lead base paint.  The had a program on it a
few years back on TV.  At that time you could get the test kit at ACE
Hardware.

                                                 Ridge Pole

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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 20 Feb 2002 22:38:55 -0800

<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>Jim,  I received it, and appreciate your efforts.  And No, I will not refute it <s>.  There was a lot of crap being posted, so perhaps it got lost in the hail storm.  I did see it, but I know you and tend to pay attention your words.   Thanks,  hardtack</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=[e-mail] href="mailto:[e-mail]"></A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A title=[e-mail] href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 2/19/02 4:31:33 PM </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Say, I posted the article on trapper productivity about a week agao but have seen no reposne to it.  Did anyone read it?  Surely it wasn't so good that no one wanted to rebut it? <grin><BR><BR>Jim Hardee </FONT></FONT>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- Randal Bublitz</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV>we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,</DIV>
<DIV>we are Borrowing it from our Children</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Michael Powell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 20 Feb 2002 22:25:23 -0700


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Jim,
In answer to your query,  I for one was impressed by your post and made a=
 hard copy of it to share with some friends who don't have e-mail or acce=
ss to the AMM List.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to type all that in.
YMHOS =20
Mike Powell
AMM #1769  =20
 =20
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:25 PM
 =20
Myself I never seen it..Maybe you posted while list was down
----- Original Message ----- =20
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:31 AM


Say, I posted the article on trapper productivity about a week agao but h=
ave seen no reposne to it.  Did anyone read it?  Surely it wasn't so good=
 that no one wanted to rebut it? <grin>

Jim Hardee Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://ex=
plorer.msn.com

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<HTML><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff" STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;b=
ackground-color:#ffffff; "><DIV>Jim,</DIV> <DIV>In answer to your query,&=
nbsp; I for one was impressed by your post and made a hard copy of it to =
share with some friends who don't have e-mail or access to the AMM List.<=
/DIV> <DIV>Thank you for taking the time and effort to type all that in.<=
/DIV> <DIV>YMHOS </DIV> <DIV>Mike Powell</DIV> <DIV>AMM #1769  =
</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING=
-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGH=
T: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DI=
V> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>=
ednesday, February 20, 2002 4:25 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"=
><B>To:</B> [e-mail]</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt A=
rial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)=
</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENE=
RATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Myself I never s=
een it..Maybe you posted while list was down</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE sty=
le=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEF=
T: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"=
>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; F=
ONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=3DCasapy123@aol=
.com href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> </DIV> <DIV =
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=[e-mail]=
.com href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
n.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, =
February 20, 2002 12:31 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subje=
ct:</B> Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)</DIV> <DIV><B=
R></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2=
 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Say, I posted the article on trapper productivity a=
bout a week agao but have seen no reposne to it.  Did anyone read it=
?  Surely it wasn't so good that no one wanted to rebut it? <grin=
><BR><BR>Jim Hardee </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer downloa=
d : <a href=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></=
p>

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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mountain trapper NOT
Date: 20 Feb 2002 23:54:03 -0500

>     Does this mean that if I am attending a rendezvous in Georgia,
or just
> there with my single claw necklace I can be arrested?
> Frank G. Fusco

As I understand the DNR Laws on such items, the answer is YES unless
you have documentation on you stating how you came by them.. ie... a
gift, purchased in another state, killed yourself, etc... and
documentation from the DNR in that state agreeing with what you have
written down.

We have a rather large Fur Trader that comes to the Alafia each year,
and DNR is there going over his stuff like fleas on a coon dog.  I
have a stuffed Red Fox that was a road kill and a friend of mine had
it stuffed and gave it to me as a joke. Had DNR seen me with it, I'd
have been in deep poo.... As I remember, Red Fox is protected in
Florida.

Ad

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mountain trapper NOT
Date: 20 Feb 2002 22:33:22 -0500

possible, If its real Griz claw or teeth necklace..
Grizzly are highly protected in some states...
One show have the standard documentation on them if wearing them i.e source
of how obtained
Black bear i dont think are protected, so i think their laws are diffrent
Sam
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:40 PM


>     The other Frank said,
>     <You can have bear parts if you kill the bear, >
>
>     I wear a bear claw necklace every moment of every day, have for many
> years. When in period dress I have others that I wear, as do many pre-1840
> re-enactors. All these claws were either purchased or given to me as gifts
> at different times and places over the years.
>     Does this mean that if I am attending a rendezvous in Georgia, or just
> there with my single claw necklace I can be arrested?
> Frank G. Fusco
> Mountain Home, Arkansas
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mountain trapper NOT
Date: 21 Feb 2002 12:09:09 -0500

Checking .. its not legal to have any Griz parts in lower 48 without
documentation.. as they are endangered.
alaska has hunting on them, pelts and parts have to be checked by Fish and
Game and have stamp and documentation.
Native americans in alaska can have pelts from them.
Having any parts/pelts in lower 48 carries stiff fines.
A native american can most likely get by with having said parts by showing
tribal card. {certain tribal councels]
penality  possible $10,000 fine, possible 5 years in prison
Call your local game warden and inquire... ask for permit to have said parts
and be prepared to prove they were not taken illigal.
God help ya in Fl if you have Panther claws or teeth..
Sam
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:54 PM


> >     Does this mean that if I am attending a rendezvous in Georgia,
> or just
> > there with my single claw necklace I can be arrested?
> > Frank G. Fusco
>
> As I understand the DNR Laws on such items, the answer is YES unless
> you have documentation on you stating how you came by them.. ie... a
> gift, purchased in another state, killed yourself, etc... and
> documentation from the DNR in that state agreeing with what you have
> written down.
>
> We have a rather large Fur Trader that comes to the Alafia each year,
> and DNR is there going over his stuff like fleas on a coon dog.  I
> have a stuffed Red Fox that was a road kill and a friend of mine had
> it stuffed and gave it to me as a joke. Had DNR seen me with it, I'd
> have been in deep poo.... As I remember, Red Fox is protected in
> Florida.
>
> Ad
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver catch (Trapper productivity)
Date: 21 Feb 2002 22:23:52 EST

In a message dated 2/20/02 10:28:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Say, I posted the article on trapper productivity about a week agao but
have seen no reposne to it.  Did anyone read it? >>

I sure did print it out and read it.  It was pretty interesting though the
numbers threw me a bit.  I got that there were a lot of guys not trapping at
all and when you look at the take it is pretty impressive for some during
some years and not so much other years.
Overall, I give it an 8.5, Jack!!!

-C.Kent

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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: mountain trapper NOT
Date: 21 Feb 2002 20:53:09 -0500

Frank,

My bust, I assumed you were speaking of black bear.  A few years ago I almost got in deep doo when someone said I was selling tortuise shells.  They were snapper shells and legal to sell but boy what a scare.

This is one reason that I stopped selling horns, skins, and critter bones at archery shoots and rendezvous.

Frank



[e-mail] wrote:
> In a message dated 2/20/2002 8:23:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:
>
>
>
Does this mean that if I am attending a rendezvous in Georgia, or just
>
there with my single claw necklace I can be arrested?
>
>
>
It sure does Frank. The regs in effect WHERE YOU ARE, NOT WHERE YOU WERE come into play. You better have proper documentation.
>
>
My best buddy, Dances With Wood, who has since passed on, had nesting Redtails in his backyard for years, and attached a number of primo feathers to his hatband.
>
>
At a rendezvous in CA, where Hawks, like rocks, are 'protected', a Fish & Game maniac (cruising the rendezvous in plain clothes) treatened him with citation if he didn't put them away. The F&G guy was cool enough to let him do that, but Dances With Wood had been into the Agave juice, and didn't appreciate the offer.
>
>
When he got indignant (a BIG mistake), explaining that the Hawks lived and loved in HIS backyard, and the feathers fell to the ground every day, and he WASN"T going to put the hat away, he was threatened with ARREST.
>
>
Fortunately, I prevailed over both of them, dragged the big Lug to his lodge, threw the hat inside and then let him loose to play another day!
>
>
Barney

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: funeral for Laura Jean
Date: 21 Feb 2002 17:39:45 -0600

Several people have asked me about where to send flowers for Laura Jean's
funeral.  Laura Jean's Texas funeral services will be handled by Pennington
Funeral Home in San Marcos, Texas  [phone]. The services are pending
at this time but presumably will be sometime on Saturday March 2.  She will
be interred at the old San Marcos cemetery.
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]

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From: Jon Towns <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: mountain trapper NOT
Date: 21 Feb 2002 23:06:26 -0800 (PST)

--0-1865488559-1014361586=:56938
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


 I AM QUARTER CHIPAWA AND I DON'T HAVE ANY PAPERS TO PROVE IT SO I AM VERY CAREFUL ABOUT MY FEATHERS AND CLAWS AND TEETH.  I KEEP THEM OUT OF SIGHT FROM OTHER PEOPLE THEN BROTHERS AND AT POW WOWS I HAVE A SET OF BRAIN TAN LAGGENS AND WAR SHIRT AND ALL THE INDIANS A THE POW WOWS JUST CAN'T GET OVER THE HIDES.  THEY ALL WANT TO KNOW WHERE I GOT THEM SO I TELL THEM I MADE THEM.  THAT IN PRESSES THEM  BECAUSE MOST OF MY INDIAN BROTHER DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAN HIDES.  I ALSO DO WOOD CARVING AND TALK JARGON AND USE SIGN WHICH MOST OF THE ALSO DON'T.  IT GIVES ME A CHANCE TO BULL SHIT THEM A LITTLE BECAUSE SOMETIMES I CAN'T REMEMBER THE RIGHT WORKS TO USE SO I SUBS ATUTE PLUS I CAN'T SPELL VERY WELL EIATHER.  AS YOU ALL CAN TELL.  I WILL HAVE TO GET A LOT BETTER BECAUSE I AM A VOLUNTEER AT FORT CLAPSAP AND I NEED TO BE UP ON IT BECAUSE SOMEONE MIGHT KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING.  BUT IT WILL GIVE ME A CHANCE TO PRATACE I AM SORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING BUT THE SPELL CHEACK DID KNOW HOW TO SPELL THEM.  UNTIL LATER JON TOWNS HIV 944



Until later Jon Towns


Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
--0-1865488559-1014361586=:56938
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<P> <FONT color=#800000 size=5>I AM QUARTER CHIPAWA AND I DON'T HAVE ANY PAPERS TO PROVE IT SO I AM VERY CAREFUL ABOUT MY FEATHERS AND CLAWS AND TEETH.  I KEEP THEM OUT OF SIGHT FROM OTHER PEOPLE THEN BROTHERS AND AT POW WOWS I HAVE A SET OF BRAIN TAN LAGGENS AND WAR SHIRT AND ALL THE INDIANS A THE POW WOWS JUST CAN'T GET OVER THE HIDES.  THEY ALL WANT TO KNOW WHERE I GOT THEM SO I TELL THEM I MADE THEM.  THAT IN PRESSES THEM  BECAUSE MOST OF MY INDIAN BROTHER DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAN HIDES.  I ALSO DO WOOD CARVING AND TALK JARGON AND USE SIGN WHICH MOST OF THE ALSO DON'T.  IT GIVES ME A CHANCE TO BULL SHIT THEM A LITTLE BECAUSE SOMETIMES I CAN'T REMEMBER THE RIGHT WORKS TO USE SO I SUBS ATUTE PLUS I CAN'T SPELL VERY WELL EIATHER.  AS YOU ALL CAN TELL.  I WILL HAVE TO GET A LOT BETTER BECAUSE I AM A VOLUNTEER AT FORT CLAPSAP AND I NEED TO BE UP ON IT BECAUSE SOMEONE MIGHT KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING.  BUT IT WILL GIVE ME A CHANCE TO PRATACE I AM SORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING BUT THE SPELL CHEACK DID KNOW HOW TO SPELL THEM.  UNTIL LATER JON TOWNS HIV 944       </FONT>
<P><FONT color=#800000 size=5></FONT> </P><BR><BR><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4>Until later Jon Towns</FONT><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href="http://sports.yahoo.com/oly">Yahoo! Sports</a> - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
--0-1865488559-1014361586=:56938--

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From: "Michael Powell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: mountain trapper NOT
Date: 22 Feb 2002 19:47:56 -0700


------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1BBD9.D2F73C00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey Jon,
Do you think you could find a bigger font for your posts?  My nieghbor en=
joys reading them through the window, next door.
Thanks,
Mike
 =20
 =20
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 2:41 PM
 =20
 I AM QUARTER CHIPAWA AND I DON'T HAVE ANY PAPERS TO PROVE IT SO I AM VER=
Y CAREFUL ABOUT MY FEATHERS AND CLAWS AND TEETH.  I KEEP THEM OUT OF SIGH=
T FROM OTHER PEOPLE THEN BROTHERS AND AT POW WOWS I HAVE A SET OF BRAIN T=
AN LAGGENS AND WAR SHIRT AND ALL THE INDIANS A THE POW WOWS JUST CAN'T GE=
T OVER THE HIDES.  THEY ALL WANT TO KNOW WHERE I GOT THEM SO I TELL THEM =
I MADE THEM.  THAT IN PRESSES THEM  BECAUSE MOST OF MY INDIAN BROTHER DON=
'T KNOW HOW TO TAN HIDES.  I ALSO DO WOOD CARVING AND TALK JARGON AND USE=
 SIGN WHICH MOST OF THE ALSO DON'T.  IT GIVES ME A CHANCE TO BULL SHIT TH=
EM A LITTLE BECAUSE SOMETIMES I CAN'T REMEMBER THE RIGHT WORKS TO USE SO =
I SUBS ATUTE PLUS I CAN'T SPELL VERY WELL EIATHER.  AS YOU ALL CAN TELL. =
 I WILL HAVE TO GET A LOT BETTER BECAUSE I AM A VOLUNTEER AT FORT CLAPSAP=
 AND I NEED TO BE UP ON IT BECAUSE SOMEONE MIGHT KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING.  =
BUT IT WILL GIVE ME A CHANCE TO PRATACE I AM SORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING BUT=
 THE SPELL CHEACK DID KNOW HOW TO SPELL THEM.  UNTIL LATER JON TOWNS HIV =
944       =20
 =20


Until later Jon Towns




Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic GamesGet more from the Web. =
 FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1BBD9.D2F73C00
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Hey Jon,</DIV>=
 <DIV>Do you think you could find a bigger font for your posts?  My =
nieghbor enjoys reading them through the window, next door.</DIV> <DIV>Th=
anks,</DIV> <DIV>Mike</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUO=
TE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORD=
ER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =
Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4=
e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> Jon Towns</DIV> <DIV sty=
le=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 22, 2002 2:41 PM</D=
IV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> [e-mail].c=
om</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Re: MtMan-Li=
st: mountain trapper NOT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P> <FONT color=3D#=
800000 size=3D5>I AM QUARTER CHIPAWA AND I DON'T HAVE ANY PAPERS TO PROVE=
 IT SO I AM VERY CAREFUL ABOUT MY FEATHERS AND CLAWS AND TEETH.  I K=
EEP THEM OUT OF SIGHT FROM OTHER PEOPLE THEN BROTHERS AND AT POW WOWS I H=
AVE A SET OF BRAIN TAN LAGGENS AND WAR SHIRT AND ALL THE INDIANS A THE PO=
W WOWS JUST CAN'T GET OVER THE HIDES.  THEY ALL WANT TO KNOW WHERE I=
 GOT THEM SO I TELL THEM I MADE THEM.  THAT IN PRESSES THEM  BE=
CAUSE MOST OF MY INDIAN BROTHER DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAN HIDES.  I ALSO=
 DO WOOD CARVING AND TALK JARGON AND USE SIGN WHICH MOST OF THE ALSO DON'=
T.  IT GIVES ME A CHANCE TO BULL SHIT THEM A LITTLE BECAUSE SOMETIME=
S I CAN'T REMEMBER THE RIGHT WORKS TO USE SO I SUBS ATUTE PLUS I CAN'T SP=
ELL VERY WELL EIATHER.  AS YOU ALL CAN TELL.  I WILL HAVE TO GE=
T A LOT BETTER BECAUSE I AM A VOLUNTEER AT FORT CLAPSAP AND I NEED TO BE =
UP ON IT BECAUSE SOMEONE MIGHT KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING.  BUT IT WILL G=
IVE ME A CHANCE TO PRATACE I AM SORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING BUT THE SPELL CH=
EACK DID KNOW HOW TO SPELL THEM.  UNTIL LATER JON TOWNS HIV 944 =
;      </FONT> <P><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D5=
></FONT> </P><BR><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Until l=
ater Jon Towns</FONT> <P><BR> <HR SIZE=3D1> <B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR><A h=
ref=3D"http://sports.yahoo.com/oly">Yahoo! Sports</A> - Coverage of the 2=
002 Olympic Games</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more =
from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href=3D'http://explorer.ms=
n.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Jean Obituary
Date: 22 Feb 2002 21:03:09 -0600

Click here to read Laura Jean Glise's obituary.
http://news.theolympian.com/stories/20020222/Obituaries/

One person has asked me to lay a medicine pouch on Laura's grave and is
sending it to me.  I would be pleased to lay a token on her grave for anyone
else.
Send anything you would like me place on her grave. (Priority Mail is best)
1008 North Robinson
Cleburne, TX  76031
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]

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From: Todd Glover <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: mountain trapper NOT
Date: 22 Feb 2002 22:06:25 -0700

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

----__JNP_000_3aa3.0439.0cba
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Good one Mike! Gave me a laugh!

Todd

On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:47:56 -0700 "Michael Powell" <[e-mail]>
writes:
Hey Jon,
Do you think you could find a bigger font for your posts?  My nieghbor
enjoys reading them through the window, next door.
Thanks,
Mike


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 2:41 PM

 I AM QUARTER CHIPAWA AND I DON'T HAVE ANY PAPERS TO PROVE IT SO I AM
VERY CAREFUL ABOUT MY FEATHERS AND CLAWS AND TEETH.  I KEEP THEM OUT OF
SIGHT FROM OTHER PEOPLE THEN BROTHERS AND AT POW WOWS I HAVE A SET OF
BRAIN TAN LAGGENS AND WAR SHIRT AND ALL THE INDIANS A THE POW WOWS JUST
CAN'T GET OVER THE HIDES.  THEY ALL WANT TO KNOW WHERE I GOT THEM SO I
TELL THEM I MADE THEM.  THAT IN PRESSES THEM  BECAUSE MOST OF MY INDIAN
BROTHER DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAN HIDES.  I ALSO DO WOOD CARVING AND TALK
JARGON AND USE SIGN WHICH MOST OF THE ALSO DON'T.  IT GIVES ME A CHANCE
TO BULL SHIT THEM A LITTLE BECAUSE SOMETIMES I CAN'T REMEMBER THE RIGHT
WORKS TO USE SO I SUBS ATUTE PLUS I CAN'T SPELL VERY WELL EIATHER.  AS
YOU ALL CAN TELL.  I WILL HAVE TO GET A LOT BETTER BECAUSE I AM A
VOLUNTEER AT FORT CLAPSAP AND I NEED TO BE UP ON IT BECAUSE SOMEONE MIGHT
KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING.  BUT IT WILL GIVE ME A CHANCE TO PRATACE I AM
SORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING BUT THE SPELL CHEACK DID KNOW HOW TO SPELL THEM.
 UNTIL LATER JON TOWNS HIV 944



Until later Jon Towns




Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games



Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com



"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784
----__JNP_000_3aa3.0439.0cba
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 http-equiv=3Dcontent-type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT=
: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; FONT: 10pt verdana">
<DIV>Good one Mike! Gave me a laugh!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Todd</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:47:56 -0700 "Michael Powell" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>> writes:</=
DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: =
10px">
  <DIV>Hey Jon,</DIV>
  <DIV>Do you think you could find a bigger font for your posts?  My=20
  nieghbor enjoys reading them through the window, next door.</DIV>
  <DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
  <DIV>Mike</DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>From:<=
/B> Jon=20
    Towns</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 22, 2002 =
2:41=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> [e-mail]=
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Re: MtMan-List: =
mountain=20
    trapper NOT</DIV>
    <DIV> </DIV>
    <P> <FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D5>I AM QUARTER CHIPAWA AND I DON'=
T HAVE=20
    ANY PAPERS TO PROVE IT SO I AM VERY CAREFUL ABOUT MY FEATHERS AND CLAWS=
 AND=20
    TEETH.  I KEEP THEM OUT OF SIGHT FROM OTHER PEOPLE THEN BROTHERS =
AND AT=20
    POW WOWS I HAVE A SET OF BRAIN TAN LAGGENS AND WAR SHIRT AND ALL THE =
INDIANS=20
    A THE POW WOWS JUST CAN'T GET OVER THE HIDES.  THEY ALL WANT TO =
KNOW=20
    WHERE I GOT THEM SO I TELL THEM I MADE THEM.  THAT IN PRESSES=20
    THEM  BECAUSE MOST OF MY INDIAN BROTHER DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAN=20
    HIDES.  I ALSO DO WOOD CARVING AND TALK JARGON AND USE SIGN WHICH =
MOST=20
    OF THE ALSO DON'T.  IT GIVES ME A CHANCE TO BULL SHIT THEM A =
LITTLE=20
    BECAUSE SOMETIMES I CAN'T REMEMBER THE RIGHT WORKS TO USE SO I SUBS =
ATUTE=20
    PLUS I CAN'T SPELL VERY WELL EIATHER.  AS YOU ALL CAN TELL.  =
I=20
    WILL HAVE TO GET A LOT BETTER BECAUSE I AM A VOLUNTEER AT FORT CLAPSAP =
AND I=20
    NEED TO BE UP ON IT BECAUSE SOMEONE MIGHT KNOW WHAT I AM SAYING.  =
BUT=20
    IT WILL GIVE ME A CHANCE TO PRATACE I AM SORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING BUT =
THE=20
    SPELL CHEACK DID KNOW HOW TO SPELL THEM.  UNTIL LATER JON TOWNS =
HIV=20
    944       </FONT>
    <P><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D5></FONT> </P><BR><BR><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Until later Jon Towns</FONT>=20
    <P><BR>
    <HR SIZE=3D1>
    <B>Do You Yahoo!?</B><BR><A href=3D"http://sports.yahoo.com/oly">Yahoo!=
=20
    Sports</A> - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games</BLOCKQUOTE><BR clear=
=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <A=20
  href=3D"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A><BR>
  <P></P>
  <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784<BR></BODY>=
</HTML>

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Jon Towns spelling
Date: 22 Feb 2002 22:48:07 -0600

Jon
Seems to me what a man has to say is more important than how he spells it.
Don't sweat it here....you're among friends, ready to listen.
Lanney Ratcliff

Consider the following spelling quotes:


"My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters
get in the wrong places." -- A. A. Milne

"It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word!" --
Andrew Jackson

"Correct spelling, indeed, is one of the arts that are far more esteemed by
schoolma'ams than by practical men, neck-deep in the heat and agony of the
world." -- Henry Louis Mencken, The American Language

"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way." -- Mark
Twain

I have a spelling checker
It came with my PC
It plainly marks for my revue
Mistakes I cannot sea
I've run this poem threw it
I'm sure your please to no,
It's letter perfect in it's weigh
My checker tolled me sew
-- anonymous

"A kiss can be a comma, a question mark or an exclamation point.
That's the basic spelling that every woman ought to know."
-- Mistinguette
Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: new to list
Date: 23 Feb 2002 22:16:28 EST


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Hello list!
I am new to the list? Are there any AMM members on here that live in Texas.
If so I will be attending the Ranger Springs Rendezvous March 1-3 and would
like to meet some fellow Texans and swap ideas.

Frank Sablan
Odessa,Texas

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hello list!<BR>
I am new to the list? Are there any AMM members on here that live in Texas.  If so I will be attending the Ranger Springs Rendezvous March 1-3 and would like to meet some fellow Texans and swap ideas.<BR>
<BR>
Frank Sablan<BR>
Odessa,Texas</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Paul Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: new to list
Date: 24 Feb 2002 22:24:53 -0600

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Frank, Ron Harris, an AMM Brother will be the Booshway of that =
rendezvous.  I suspect that several others of us will be in attendance =
as well.

If I can make it, I do look forward to visiting with you.  Either Ron or =
myself, or perhaps others in attendance can acquaint you with a number =
of AMM members living in Texas, with a large percentage of them in North =
to Central Texas.

Regards,

Paul
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 9:16 PM
  Subject: MtMan-List: new to list


  Hello list!
  I am new to the list? Are there any AMM members on here that live in =
Texas.  If so I will be attending the Ranger Springs Rendezvous March =
1-3 and would like to meet some fellow Texans and swap ideas.

  Frank Sablan
  Odessa,Texas=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Frank, Ron Harris, an AMM Brother will be =
the Booshway=20
of that rendezvous.  I suspect that several others of us will be in =

attendance as well.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>If I can make it, I do look forward to =
visiting with=20
you.  Either Ron or myself, or perhaps others in attendance can =
acquaint=20
you with a number of AMM members living in Texas, with a large =
percentage of=20
them in North to Central Texas.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Regards,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Paul</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 23, =
2002 9:16=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> MtMan-List: new to =
list</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3DArial =
lang=3D0 size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Hello list!<BR>I am new to the list? Are there =
any AMM=20
  members on here that live in Texas.  If so I will be attending =
the Ranger=20
  Springs Rendezvous March 1-3 and would like to meet some fellow Texans =
and=20
  swap ideas.<BR><BR>Frank Sablan<BR>Odessa,Texas</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: new to list-AGAIN!!!
Date: 25 Feb 2002 01:08:21 +0000

Well guys, I am back.  Nice to see things have cooled
down a bit.  Cannot wait to see how everyone is doing.
And I wish to thank those of you that have sent private
emails to me on my health. Still have to wait and see on
all of that problem.

Linda Holley
"Tipis Wastewin"
http://www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com

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From: Rick Guglielmi <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: paint pigment
Date: 25 Feb 2002 17:23:25 -0800



Hello all,

  Recently there was some discussion on waterproofing.  Were would be a
good source for paint pigment.  I have used various methods on small
projects and was able to get paint pigment in small (4 oz) size but this
was expensive.  I would like to find a good source for doing large sizes
for shelters, pack gear, etc.

Thanks,

Rick

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From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: "BEVER  FEVOR"
Date: 26 Feb 2002 15:21:32 -0800 (PST)

 Ho the camp !
 All this "talk" about traping bever, but nothing said
about the "G" word, Bever Fevor.
 Any thoughts ??


=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

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From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: paint pigment
Date: 26 Feb 2002 13:52:41 -0800 (PST)

Cement or grout colorant can be purchased at good
hardware store. it is cheap.  They are usually
composed of metal oxides.
--- Rick Guglielmi <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>   Recently there was some discussion on
> waterproofing.  Were would be a
> good source for paint pigment.  I have used various
> methods on small
> projects and was able to get paint pigment in small
> (4 oz) size but this
> was expensive.  I would like to find a good source
> for doing large sizes
> for shelters, pack gear, etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

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From: "Al Klossner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: wooden barrels
Date: 26 Feb 2002 14:33:59 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hello,
 Im not sure if you can help but this is the first site i've found on =
wooden barrel. I have a friend that ask me if I could find info on the =
internet relative to barrel milling. He has found an old barrel sawmill =
and needs any onfo that may be around to get it functioning again. It's =
quite complex but has most of the steel components . If you can't help =
maybe you steer us in the right direction. Thanks albie

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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial> Im not sure if you can help but this is =
the first=20
site i've found on wooden barrel. I have a friend that ask me if I could =
find=20
info on the internet relative to barrel milling. He has found an old =
barrel=20
sawmill and needs any onfo that may be around to get it functioning =
again. It's=20
quite complex but has most of the steel components . If you can't help =
maybe you=20
steer us in the right direction. Thanks albie</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: corn boilers
Date: 26 Feb 2002 07:24:17 -0600

    A discussion has begun on another list regarding the use of tinned corn
boilers, the type with hinged lids, being correct/incorrect for the pre-1840
period.
    Recently, after being chided for the unpteenth time for using a
spatterware tapered coffee pot, I finally bought a (expensive) corn boiler
just to shut up the critics. Now I hear that it is an unknown item for
anything pre-Civil War.
    So what would be correct for making coffee in a pre-1840 camp? In the
meantime I'm going to continue using my tapered coffe pot until someone
shoots it. Or me.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: paint pigment
Date: 26 Feb 2002 02:19:54 EST


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In a message dated 2/25/2002 7:18:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


>  I would like to find a good source for doing large sizes
> for shelters, pack gear, etc.
>

Rick, Here are some sources you can contact online:

<A HREF="http://www.rghartistoilpaints.com/drypigments.htm">RGH Artists' Oil Paints</A> (avail in pounds)

<A HREF="http://www.nativewayonline.com/pigments.htm">OCHRE PIGMENTS</A> (nativewayonline.com leads to sources)

<A HREF="http://www.newriversideochre.com/">Natural Earth Pigments -New Riverside Ochre</A> (ochre mining/processor)

Hope these are of some help.   Barney


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 2/25/2002 7:18:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> I would like to find a good source for doing large sizes <BR>
for shelters, pack gear, etc.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Rick, Here are some sources you can contact online:<BR>
 <BR>
<A HREF="http://www.rghartistoilpaints.com/drypigments.htm">RGH Artists' Oil Paints</A></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"> (avail in pounds)<BR>
 <BR>
<A HREF="http://www.nativewayonline.com/pigments.htm">OCHRE PIGMENTS</A></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"> (nativewayonline.com leads to sources)<BR>
<BR>
<A HREF="http://www.newriversideochre.com/">Natural Earth Pigments -New Riverside Ochre</A></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"> (ochre mining/processor) <BR>
<BR>
Hope these are of some help.   Barney<BR>
<BR>
</B></FONT></HTML>
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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: corn boilers
Date: 26 Feb 2002 22:17:17 -0800


   So what would be correct for making coffee in a pre-1840 camp? In the
> meantime I'm going to continue using my tapered coffe pot until someone
> shoots it. Or me.

Frank,

OK, when is your next camp? I been working up a load for my .62 that I think
will do the job. <G> BTW, if your following the discussion on the other list
you will see that it is not as cut and dried that they are not appropriate
(straight sided) as initial comments would dictate.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "BEVER  FEVOR"
Date: 26 Feb 2002 22:53:25 -0500

Giardia?
might be spelled wrong....
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:21 PM


> Ho the camp !
>  All this "talk" about traping bever, but nothing said
> about the "G" word, Bever Fevor.
>  Any thoughts ??
>
>
> =====
> George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
> Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "BEVER  FEVOR"
Date: 26 Feb 2002 22:40:37 -0500

Drink tainted water in alaska and you sure will get it.
and wish you had not..
Had it myself... once...
Sam
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:21 PM


> Ho the camp !
>  All this "talk" about traping bever, but nothing said
> about the "G" word, Bever Fevor.
>  Any thoughts ??
>
>
> =====
> George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
> Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: corn boilers
Date: 26 Feb 2002 22:30:12 -0600

Frank
I had one of the big corn boilers you described and gave it to a Civil War
reenanactor.....which pleased him to no end.  I still have a small corn
boiler which I continue to use from time to time.
I had a large....one gallon......tin lined copper can made for coffee making
and other chores.  Imagine a Quaker Oat Meal box made of copper with a lid
and a bale....a perfect cylinder.  It has served yoeman's duty as a coffee
kettle but sometimes is just a water reservoir.  It was a tad pricey and the
fellow who made it swore he wouldn't make another one so you are on your own
to come up with one.  You can see a similar can being used to serve coffee
in A.J.Miller's painting "Trappers at Breakfast".....I'm only fairly certain
of that name, now that I think of it..
Lanney
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:24 AM


>     A discussion has begun on another list regarding the use of tinned
corn
> boilers, the type with hinged lids, being correct/incorrect for the
pre-1840
> period.
>     Recently, after being chided for the unpteenth time for using a
> spatterware tapered coffee pot, I finally bought a (expensive) corn boiler
> just to shut up the critics. Now I hear that it is an unknown item for
> anything pre-Civil War.
>     So what would be correct for making coffee in a pre-1840 camp? In the
> meantime I'm going to continue using my tapered coffe pot until someone
> shoots it. Or me.
> Frank G. Fusco
> Mountain Home, Arkansas
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>

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From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: corn boilers
Date: 26 Feb 2002 20:32:38 -0700

frank;
I would guess they used a straight sided sheet iron cooking kettle.  if an
individual or mess had more than one pot or a nest of kettles.   i would
think it would be the one, not being used to cook the meal.
tom
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:24 AM


>     A discussion has begun on another list regarding the use of tinned
corn
> boilers, the type with hinged lids, being correct/incorrect for the
pre-1840
> period.
>     Recently, after being chided for the unpteenth time for using a
> spatterware tapered coffee pot, I finally bought a (expensive) corn boiler
> just to shut up the critics. Now I hear that it is an unknown item for
> anything pre-Civil War.
>     So what would be correct for making coffee in a pre-1840 camp? In the
> meantime I'm going to continue using my tapered coffe pot until someone
> shoots it. Or me.
> Frank G. Fusco
> Mountain Home, Arkansas
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: "traprjon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "BEVER  FEVOR"
Date: 26 Feb 2002 22:38:08 -0500

Ho the List,
    Guardia is a disease caused, I believe, by parasites in beaver droppings
which occurs in the water, and a human's subsequent consumption of that
contaminated water.  It will make you deathly ill for a few days, and the
prevention of it is NEVER drink un-boiled or un-treated (or both) water.
Always boil and or treat water in nature with water purification tablets!!!
Something I don't think the original mountain men had to worry too much
about.  In my trap shed I use latex gloves, on a primitive camp I don't, but
wash up well with an anti-bacterial soap after skinning, and use a clean
knife to remove edible meat.
Sincerely,
John Enos
TrapRJohn
[e-mail]
"The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty,
is that it was lost because it's possessors failed to stretch forth a saving
hand,
while yet there was time."    -- Justice George Sutherland, 1938


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:21 PM


> Ho the camp !
>  All this "talk" about traping bever, but nothing said
> about the "G" word, Bever Fevor.
>  Any thoughts ??
>
>
> =====
> George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
> Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wooden barrels
Date: 26 Feb 2002 22:25:37 EST


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Albie
I would try wineries.  They still use barrels and lots of them

Hope it helps
John

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Albie
<BR>I would try wineries.  They still use barrels and lots of them
<BR>
<BR>Hope it helps
<BR>John</FONT></HTML>

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From: Rick Guglielmi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: paint pigment
Date: 26 Feb 2002 19:00:06 -0800

--=====================_1362203==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Barney,

thanks, I will let youknowhow things turn out

Rick


At 02:19 AM 02/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 2/25/2002 7:18:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>[e-mail] writes:
>
>
>>I would like to find a good source for doing large sizes
>>for shelters, pack gear, etc.
>
>
>Rick, Here are some sources you can contact online:
>
><http://www.rghartistoilpaints.com/drypigments.htm>RGH Artists' Oil Paints
>(avail in pounds)
>
><http://www.nativewayonline.com/pigments.htm>OCHRE PIGMENTS
>(nativewayonline.com leads to sources)
>
><http://www.newriversideochre.com/>Natural Earth Pigments -New Riverside
>Ochre (ochre mining/processor)
>
>Hope these are of some help.   Barney

--=====================_1362203==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Barney,<br><br>
thanks, I will let youknowhow things turn out<br><br>
Rick<br><br>
<br>
At 02:19 AM 02/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font face="Comic Sans MS" size=2 color="#0000FF"><b>In
a message dated 2/25/2002 7:18:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:<br><br>
</b></font><font size=2><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I would like to find a good source
for doing large sizes <br>
for shelters, pack gear, etc.</blockquote><br>
</font><font face="Comic Sans MS" size=2 color="#0000FF"><b><br>
Rick, Here are some sources you can contact online:<br><br>
<a href="http://www.rghartistoilpaints.com/drypigments.htm">RGH Artists'
Oil Paints</a> (avail in pounds)<br><br>
<a href="http://www.nativewayonline.com/pigments.htm">OCHRE PIGMENTS</a>
(nativewayonline.com leads to sources)<br><br>
<a href="http://www.newriversideochre.com/">Natural Earth Pigments -New Riverside Ochre</a> (ochre mining/processor) <br><br>
Hope these are of some help.   Barney<br>
</font></b></blockquote></html>

--=====================_1362203==_.ALT--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: corn boilers
Date: 27 Feb 2002 16:06:14 EST


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In a message dated 2/27/02 8:12:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> You can see a similar can being used to serve coffee
> in A.J.Miller's painting "Trappers at Breakfast".....I'm only fairly certain
> of that name, now that I think of it..
>

After taking a look through "The West of Alfred Jacob Miller" I didn't find
that particular painting.  I did find "Breakfast at Sunrise", but the
"coffee" pot is tucked under a trapper's arm pouring his partners a fresh
cup.  However nearly every trapper's camp scene Miller painted that's in this
book, has a rather large cylindrical pot hanging from a tripod over the fire.
 There are usually racks of ribs along side the fires as well, so, from what
we know of the trapper's diet, maybe we could speculate (and probably
eventually get in trouble for it) the pot has coffee in it.

NM

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3>In a message dated 2/27/02 8:12:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">You can see a similar can being used to serve coffee
<BR>in A.J.Miller's painting "Trappers at Breakfast".....I'm only fairly certain
<BR>of that name, now that I think of it..
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>After taking a look through "The West of Alfred Jacob Miller" I didn't find that particular painting.  I did find "Breakfast at Sunrise", but the "coffee" pot is tucked under a trapper's arm pouring his partners a fresh cup.  However nearly every trapper's camp scene Miller painted that's in this book, has a rather large cylindrical pot hanging from a tripod over the fire.  There are usually racks of ribs along side the fires as well, so, from what we know of the trapper's diet, maybe we could speculate (and probably eventually get in trouble for it) the pot has coffee in it.
<BR>
<BR>NM</FONT></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20wooden=20barrels?=
Date: 27 Feb 2002 12:48:00 EST


In a message dated 2/26/02 6:57:56 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I have a friend that ask me if I could find info on the internet relative=
=20
to barrel milling. >>

Albie,

Try putting "cooperage" in your search engine.... There are quite a few=20
barrel makers  around that should be able to help you. Here's a few...

Magpie

<A HREF=3D"http://www.cooperage.com/">Welcome to Independent Stave Company</=
A>

<A HREF=3D"http://www.cantoncooperage.com/barrels.html">Canton Cooperage-Bar=
rels
</A>

<A HREF=3D"http://www.interlog.com/~zaroski/">Zaroski's Cooperage -buckets,=20
barrels, museum d=E2=80=A6</A>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20wooden=20barrels?=
Date: 27 Feb 2002 12:48:00 EST


In a message dated 2/26/02 6:57:56 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I have a friend that ask me if I could find info on the internet relative=
=20
to barrel milling. >>

Albie,

Try putting "cooperage" in your search engine.... There are quite a few=20
barrel makers  around that should be able to help you. Here's a few...

Magpie

<A HREF=3D"http://www.cooperage.com/">Welcome to Independent Stave Company</=
A>

<A HREF=3D"http://www.cantoncooperage.com/barrels.html">Canton Cooperage-Bar=
rels
</A>

<A HREF=3D"http://www.interlog.com/~zaroski/">Zaroski's Cooperage -buckets,=20
barrels, museum d=E2=80=A6</A>

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From: "WindWalker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "BEVER  FEVOR"
Date: 27 Feb 2002 11:46:13 -0500


"
reply to

> Ho the List,
>     Guardia is a disease caused, I believe, by parasites in beaver
droppings
> which occurs in the water, and a human's subsequent consumption of that
> contaminated water.

when i got it I was area that had no Beaver.. its a 'term' so used to call
the illness. It has alway been around and thus called many things.
Mountainman reports as well as expiditions reported people with "dropsy" and
advanced diarehea.
Several ManDan camps were so affected at varoius times. Our tribal clan used
slippery elm bark to free the nastys from system.
Much like ole worm treatments..Some forms of sumac were also used in attmept
to treat illness.
Medicine Men today in Oklahoma treat using "tobacco" as one step. followed
by turtle shell rite.
Its very un nerving if you have it as you loose all pucker power.
Water filters using a .5 micron filter are best to trey to evade the
problem.
Rivers which have salmon runs every year are a prime place to get it

Signs posted in wilderness areas often warn about Giardia in streams.
Commonly found in wild animals such as the beaver, and decaying material
this graceful, flagellated organism may infect unwary hikers. But giardiasis
can also be contracted via contaminated foods. It is identifiable
microscopically by the appearance of two "eyes" that are actually a pair of
nuclei, seen in the phase contrast image (left). Giardia uses a ventral
suction cup, seen in the differential interference contrast image (right),
to attach to its host's intestinal epithelium. There is some evidence that a
heavy infection of attached Giardia physically blocks the important
transport of nutrients across the epithelium. Visit the FDA's Bad Bug Book
for a further description of Giardia, including information about its
transmission. Found mostly is streams that have a salmon run
everyyear.Avanced stages can last for weeks. Dehydration is of major concern
to suffers.

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From: "De Santis, Nick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: wooden barrels
Date: 27 Feb 2002 09:24:32 -0800

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1BFB3.9E616A00
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Albie,

Try a web search on barrel cooper.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:34 AM


Hello,
 Im not sure if you can help but this is the first site i've found on wooden
barrel. I have a friend that ask me if I could find info on the internet
relative to barrel milling. He has found an old barrel sawmill and needs any
onfo that may be around to get it functioning again. It's quite complex but
has most of the steel components . If you can't help maybe you steer us in
the right direction. Thanks albie


------_=_NextPart_001_01C1BFB3.9E616A00
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">


<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=155242317-27022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Albie,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=155242317-27022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=155242317-27022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Try a
web search on barrel cooper.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=155242317-27022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=155242317-27022002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Nick</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Al Klossner
  [mailto:[e-mail]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 26, 2002
  11:34 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [e-mail]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
  MtMan-List: wooden barrels<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial> Im not sure if you can help but this is the first
  site i've found on wooden barrel. I have a friend that ask me if I could find
  info on the internet relative to barrel milling. He has found an old barrel
  sawmill and needs any onfo that may be around to get it functioning again.
  It's quite complex but has most of the steel components . If you can't help
  maybe you steer us in the right direction. Thanks
albie</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Dennis Knapp <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #998
Date: 27 Feb 2002 09:23:50 -0700

> Were would be a good source for paint pigment. Thanks, Rick

Rick, Try going to a feed mill in your area. Some feed mills use colored iron oxides (reds, browns, yellow, black, etc.) in their feed manufacturing. It will probably be very inexpensive.
Dennis Knapp aka Sticher in southern Idaho

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From: ALAN AVERY <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: corn boilers
Date: 27 Feb 2002 08:13:25 -0800

Hi Frank,

I was following that discussion also. The boilers they are referring to as
Civil War era are the ones with the attached side handle, (looks sort of
like a big tin mug with a bail and sometimes a hinged lid.) These boilers
have been sold by a number of suppliers for a long time. Apparently they are
a Confederate Army style, (according to Goose Bay Workshops). I have asked a
Civil War fanatic that I know about this, and will post his reply if you
like. As far as straight-sided boilers not being documentable for before the
Civil War, I have to take issue with that, as the Hudson Bay Co certainly
was selling straight-sided copper pots in the 1700's. That doesn't mean that
they were in the RMFT, but interaction between HBC and the free trapppers
was not unknown, (didn't HBC actually attend some rendezvous?) so a
straight-sided copper pot COULD be correct. (If  they'd a had em - they'd a
used em!! <VBG>) As far as your enamelware coffee pot goes, as long as it's
full and the coffee's hot, I wont complain!! <G>

Black Knife

Alan Avery



----- Original Message -----
Sent: February 26, 2002 5:24 AM


>     A discussion has begun on another list regarding the use of tinned
corn
> boilers, the type with hinged lids, being correct/incorrect for the
pre-1840
> period.
>     Recently, after being chided for the unpteenth time for using a
> spatterware tapered coffee pot, I finally bought a (expensive) corn boiler
> just to shut up the critics. Now I hear that it is an unknown item for
> anything pre-Civil War.
>     So what would be correct for making coffee in a pre-1840 camp? In the
> meantime I'm going to continue using my tapered coffe pot until someone
> shoots it. Or me.
> Frank G. Fusco
> Mountain Home, Arkansas
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
>
> ----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: corn boilers & coffee cookers
Date: 27 Feb 2002 21:14:11 -0600

.  You can see a similar can being used to serve coffee
> in A.J.Miller's painting "Trappers at Breakfast".....I'm only fairly
certain
> of that name, now that I think of it..

I believe it is "Breakfast at Sunrise".
http://pantheon.cis.yale.edu/~thomast/art/mess.html  The cylindrical can
slightly visible in that painting and others like it that can be seen (more
clearly) hanging over fires in other paintings is exactly the model for my
kettle...."for coffee making and other chores".   I made no "if they'd had
it they'd have used it" presumption about it's use as a coffee pot. Miller
described the scene with these words: "The sketch represents 'our mess' at
the morning meal and Francois pouring out the coffee".
Since coffee was available during the RMFT, presuming it might be consumed
at sunrise seems reasonable.    Mine has certainly been used for that
pleasant chore, among others.
I hope I'm not coming off as a grumpy old man.....which I am.  I have come
down with Bell's Palsey and the left side of my face is partially paralyzed.
The sawbones says it will almost certainly go away, but until it does I am
certain to not be the chipper little elf that I usually am.

Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: corn boilers
Date: 27 Feb 2002 19:16:26 EST

<<So what would be correct for making coffee in a pre-1840 camp? >>

Technicaly they did not brew the coffee in what we consider to be a coffee pot.  It was made in any cooking pot, brass, iron, tin that they used to make other things like soup or stews.  Then it was served in a Coffee pot if you had the money/status that would allow you to have a silver coffee pot.  This is according to my wife that eaches 18th century cooking at the 3rd largest village museum in the U.S.  So boil it up in you cook pot then serve it in your saucer/bowl not a coffee cup.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T.Oakes

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "BEVER  FEVOR"
Date: 27 Feb 2002 18:29:49 EST


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In a message dated 2/27/2002 2:50:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

  Commonly found in wild animals such as the beaver... Found mostly is
streams
> that have a salmon run every year

Maybe I missed it in one of the previous posts, but it's my understanding
that Giardia is also found in virtually ALL waters frequented by livestock
(wild) or waters affected by the runoff of commercial farming operations.

(With all the sheep in Scotland, I'm sure glad Scotch is made from well
filtered water <GGG>).

Advise I was given was: "If you're not drinking directly from the headwater
of a stream, spring, etc.,  PUR-I-FY OR WISH-TO-DIE."

Barney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 2/27/2002 2:50:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>  <BR>
  Commonly found in wild animals such as the beaver... Found mostly is streams </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">that have a salmon run every yea</BLOCKQUOTE>r</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
Maybe I missed it in one of the previous posts, but it's my understanding that Giardia is also found in virtually ALL waters frequented by livestock (wild) or waters affected by the runoff of commercial farming operations. <BR>
<BR>
(With all the sheep in Scotland, I'm sure glad Scotch is made from well filtered water <GGG>).<BR>
<BR>
Advise I was given was: "If you're not drinking directly from the headwater of a stream, spring, etc.,  PUR-I-FY OR WISH-TO-DIE."<BR>
<BR>
Barney</FONT></HTML>

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From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: corn boilers & coffee cookers
Date: 27 Feb 2002 23:30:21 -0700

as an interesting side note,  on the A.J. miller painting, "Breakfast at
sunrise".  Capt. Stewart who was obviously a man of means.  could well have
afforded every luxury he fancied, strange, he did not have a special pot to
boil coffee in.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:14 PM


> .  You can see a similar can being used to serve coffee
> > in A.J.Miller's painting "Trappers at Breakfast".....I'm only fairly
> certain
> > of that name, now that I think of it..
>
> I believe it is "Breakfast at Sunrise".
> http://pantheon.cis.yale.edu/~thomast/art/mess.html  The cylindrical can
> slightly visible in that painting and others like it that can be seen
(more
> clearly) hanging over fires in other paintings is exactly the model for my
> kettle...."for coffee making and other chores".   I made no "if they'd had
> it they'd have used it" presumption about it's use as a coffee pot. Miller
> described the scene with these words: "The sketch represents 'our mess' at
> the morning meal and Francois pouring out the coffee".
> Since coffee was available during the RMFT, presuming it might be consumed
> at sunrise seems reasonable.    Mine has certainly been used for that
> pleasant chore, among others.
> I hope I'm not coming off as a grumpy old man.....which I am.  I have come
> down with Bell's Palsey and the left side of my face is partially
paralyzed.
> The sawbones says it will almost certainly go away, but until it does I am
> certain to not be the chipper little elf that I usually am.
>
> Lanney Ratcliff
> [e-mail]
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: Pat Quilter <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: corn boilers & coffee cookers
Date: 27 Feb 2002 21:51:53 -0800

Lanney, I know at least two people who had your peculiar syndrome (Bell's
Palsy), and it did indeed clear up after several weeks.
Try to be of good cheer. May you recover swiftly.
Best regards
Pat Quilter

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 7:14 PM


.  You can see a similar can being used to serve coffee
> in A.J.Miller's painting "Trappers at Breakfast".....I'm only fairly
certain
> of that name, now that I think of it..

I believe it is "Breakfast at Sunrise".
http://pantheon.cis.yale.edu/~thomast/art/mess.html  The cylindrical can
slightly visible in that painting and others like it that can be seen (more
clearly) hanging over fires in other paintings is exactly the model for my
kettle...."for coffee making and other chores".   I made no "if they'd had
it they'd have used it" presumption about it's use as a coffee pot. Miller
described the scene with these words: "The sketch represents 'our mess' at
the morning meal and Francois pouring out the coffee".
Since coffee was available during the RMFT, presuming it might be consumed
at sunrise seems reasonable.    Mine has certainly been used for that
pleasant chore, among others.
I hope I'm not coming off as a grumpy old man.....which I am.  I have come
down with Bell's Palsey and the left side of my face is partially paralyzed.
The sawbones says it will almost certainly go away, but until it does I am
certain to not be the chipper little elf that I usually am.

Lanney Ratcliff
[e-mail]

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan Buffalo sale
Date: 28 Feb 2002 21:21:53 EST

Some on this list have wrote me asking about where buffalo were selling for
as little as $300.00.  If anyone is interested the same people are have
another auction on Mar. 15, 2002.  Contact me off list for details.

                                                       Ridge Pole

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