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From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Horses & Gunfire Date: 01 Oct 2001 08:56:19 -0500 <html><head></head><body>Hallo all.... Just an update on the training of horses to stand for shots....... been working with 'em regularly since my last post. Today, I was able to fire a shot from about 30' away. The big gelding still snorts and flinches, but they all stood for it. Appreciate the advice from all who contributed. Now I gots to go clean me rifle. Cheers from Idaho Lee </body></html> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: dictionary Date: 01 Oct 2001 10:49:24 -0500 Would someone please post the url for that 1823 dictionary. Thanks. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: dictionary Date: 01 Oct 2001 12:34:11 EDT Here ya go Frank... www.christiantech.com and here's the link <A HREF="http://www.christiantech.com/">Websters 1828</A> Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: 19cWoman list Date: 01 Oct 2001 09:59:10 -0600 Here's a friendly reminder to listmembers about the standing invitation to join my list, 19cWoman@yahoogroups.com. As the name suggests, this list focuses on women in the 19th Century. Suitable topics for discussion include period literature, manners and deportment, costume, social standards, historic recipes, child care, and anything else relating to 19th century women of all stations and nationalities. We already have over 150 members, and have had some fascinating discussions, ranging from bed gowns in the 19th century, to 19c male impersonators, to the proper preparation and use of hair rats! This list is modelled on the highly successful 18cWoman list at yahoogroups.com, which has been a source of information and inspiration for the last two years. Like 18cWoman, 19cWoman expects listmembers to be civil and remain on topic. To join, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/19cWoman/join Thank you. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred List-owner, 19cWoman ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" <glenn@leaklocationservices.com> Subject: MtMan-List: NASA Date: 01 Oct 2001 12:43:59 -0500 Is the following just another way to burn tax dollars? What physical remnant could possibly be sensed from space that could identify a site as a 200-year-old camp site? And if something was detected, what would distinguish it as a Lewis and Clark campsite rather than that of some other trappers? >JACKSON, Miss. (AP) - The Lewis and Clark expedition was a two-year journey into a new frontier that >helped put the West on the map. Now NASA is trying to do the same for the historic trek. >Scientists are using high-resolution satellite images to help pinpoint and map possible camp sites along the >trail of the expedition, which is approaching its 200th anniversary. . . . . >Color is extremely important in locating historic sites. For example, a slight difference in the shade of wheat in >a large field may indicate the location of an outpost. Yeah right -- or more likely where the fertilizer sprayer sputtered a little. Glenn Darilek Iron Burner ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Bodice reminder Date: 01 Oct 2001 10:25:06 -0600 Since things seem mighty slow, here's a friendly reminder regarding what has been labelled the BFH or "Bodice from Hell", aka the "French Bodice". Most of you guys know what I mean, I'm sure, but for those who don't, here's a picture of it: http://www.jastown.com/womens/fbodice.htm And here's its equally disreputable cousin, the "English Bodice": http://www.jastown.com/womens/ebodice.htm You see these garments so often that it's easy to be fooled into thinking that they're fully documented. Unfortunately, nothing can be further from the truth. An article that neatly sums up the problems with the BFH can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cWoman/files/BAR-Courier-articles/mythbodc.html (You may have to join the 18cWoman list to read this article; to do so, go to www.groups.yahoo.com/group/18cWoman/join and follow the instructions, then look up the article under the 18cWoman 'files' heading.) To summarize Ingrid's article, the BFH isn't jumps (it isn't boned), and it isn't a waistcoat (hasn't got the right styling), is often made in the wrong fabric, and even if it *were* correct, it would be considered underwear, and not worn in public. I know a lot of folks use the fall & winter to get their clothes & other gear ready for next season; here's one garment which you needn't waste your time on, if you're interested in historically accurate costuming. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Sega <chrissega1@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: NASA Date: 01 Oct 2001 15:44:03 -0700 (PDT) --- Glenn Darilek <glenn@leaklocationservices.com> wrote: > Is the following just another way to burn tax > dollars? Probably not as many dollars as you might think. The sattelites weren't launched for this reason, but they can be used for many different things. Once the film is shot for a USGS survey, for instance, the data may be shared with archaeologists and no real hard dollars are spent specifically for this task. I'm not certain that this was the case, but it is a common occurence that discoveries are made in one scientific field while looking for something else in another. What physical > remnant could possibly be sensed from space that > could identify a site as a > 200-year-old camp site? Aerial and sattelite imagery can be used to determine soil composition via infrared film. High concentrations of carbon and wood will show up as different wavelengths on developed film. We have used similar techniques, not as sophisticated, and can identify plant species just by analysing the film. However, it is not intended to replace hard evidence and digging, just another tool. > detected, what would > distinguish it as a Lewis and Clark campsite rather > than that of some other > trappers? It wouldn't, but it narrows the search, and archaeologists can then investigate likely sites with traditional methods. But unlesss they find something they know for certain is of the L&C exp. They will just have another campsite dated to the period in question, or possibly just some discolored dirt. > >JACKSON, Miss. (AP) - ................................... in locating historic > sites. For example, a > slight difference in the shade of wheat in >a large > field may indicate the > location of an outpost. > > Yeah right -- or more likely where the fertilizer > sprayer sputtered a > little. If they take film of the same spot during different seasons, and years, it is quite easy to determine if the feature is permanent or "fertilizer" C'mon Ironburner, arent you the least bit curious? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "darlene secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: J.P.Gemmer Ramp Sight? Date: 02 Oct 2001 03:01:04 +0000 Howdy fellows, Does anybody have a J.P. Gemmer elevation ramp sight made by the late Dutch Schillinger of Wichita, Kansas for sale? If so, please contact me off list. Thank you kindly, Don Secondine _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: NASA Date: 01 Oct 2001 23:01:47 -0500 <html><head></head><body>Glenn Darilek wrote: <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:00e501c14aa0$a7400ce0$0201a8c0@swbell.net"><pre wrap="">Is the following just another way to burn tax dollars? What physical remnant could possibly be sensed from space that could identify a site as a 200-year-old camp site? </pre> </blockquote> Hallo Glenn Nope... it's the real deal. This is the same technology that has pinpointed Mayan ruins and other interesting sites. As far as I know, there is no way for the space jockeys to figger out if it's a Lewis & Clark camp, or another camp of similiar time frame. They find "possible" sites, and then they send in folks on the ground to check the sites. Regards Lee Newbill of Idaho </body></html> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: J.P.Gemmer Ramp Sight? Date: 02 Oct 2001 09:33:39 -0400 don believe the people at track of the wolf or one of their vendors took one of his sights and used it as a model for a mold---also l & R has one but not like shillingers reont of the sight different---see page 272 of the track catalog----the jp gemner sight is also refered to as a hawken rear sight as a couple of hawkens have them on them and as you know gemner bought out the hawken shop and even stamped hawken on a few rifles---befor they got to putting gemner on them---gemner bought into the hawken business in 1962 if i am not mistaken---old man shillinger hachined his sights out of stock as you well know and they were works of art---I have 3 guns with his locks in them ---the ones with the short throw---I built a hawken for erwin davis and he has a shillinger lock and a sight on his gun just like the one you are looking for---I may have one in the shop will dig around but the one i have may be browned because i took it off of a rifle ---will drop you a offline if i find it if not jog my memory in a couple of days offline and i'll let you know if i find it---I know i have one of the track ones around--- one other place to possibly find one is from Don Steith in vergenia---he builds a few hawkens and even has his version of a kit he has his own castings for trigger guard and butplate and breech plug---taken from his original he has---the guard is thinner than most and the bow is slightly bigger than the ones you normally see---the butplate is thinner and smaller than most of them on the market today ---don's e-mail address is ---- ONTARGETS@aol.com ----he is a close friend of mine so tell him i told you to drop him a line---bet if anyone has a shillinger it will be him or me---I had a half dozen of them but may have used them up---I still have one set of cherry corners hawken triggers--- if you need hawken parts get with me off line or give me a call--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: FW: Fishing pole & Real Date: 03 Oct 2001 07:33:03 -0700 ---------- , Billy Keith <yaro@slkc.uswest.net> , Larry Price <loprice@netzero.net> , Lynn Stokes <mt_highlander@yahoo.com> , Brad Freeze <brad2@utahlinx.com> , dean rudy <drudy@xmission.com> , John Kramer <Kramer@Kramerize.com> , Ronald Schroter <mail4dog@yahoo.com> , Ferrell Peterson <fpeter52@juno.com> , Rick Williams <Rick_williams@byu.edu> , Ken Stanley <ammalra@juno.com> , Randy Bublitz <rjbublitz@earthlink.net> , Tom Balastat <tphsb@earthlink.net> , Mike Branin <twocoons@gdi.net> , Richard Ashburn <elkantlerltd@earthlink.net> Hello the camp, Does anyone know where I can get a replica real and pole for the period around 1830? YMOS Ole # 718 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Historical Question Date: 03 Oct 2001 20:29:33 EDT A topic came up at work that we are searching for an answer for. Does anyone know when the United States adopted the Bald Eagle for it's National Symbol? Also, why and when? Thanks! Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <colleen@ccrtc.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Historical Question Date: 03 Oct 2001 19:44:09 -0700 Try this site..... http://www.baldeagleinfo.com/eagle/eagle9.html Hope this helps! Colleen ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:29 PM > A topic came up at work that we are searching for an answer > for. Does anyone know when the United States adopted the > Bald Eagle for it's National Symbol? Also, why and when? > Thanks! > > Traphand > Rick Petzoldt > Traphand@aol.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Historical Question Date: 03 Oct 2001 21:07:15 EDT --part1_b0.1b3f6897.28ed1043_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe the other option, proposed by Ben Franklin, was a turkey.. --part1_b0.1b3f6897.28ed1043_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">I believe the other option, proposed by Ben Franklin, was a turkey..</HTML> --part1_b0.1b3f6897.28ed1043_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: dictionary Date: 03 Oct 2001 19:36:45 -0600 Boy, I seem to be just brimming with friendly reminders this week! :-) The 1828 Webster's link, and others, are on the Bookmarks page of the backup to this list, MtMan@yahoogroups.com. To join, just go to www.groups.yahoo.com/group/MtMan/join and follow the easy instructions. Anyone can add a bookmark, it's just that I've been the only one interested enough to do so thus far. Your friendly reminder, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: historical question Date: 04 Oct 2001 08:21:43 -0500 Rick Petzold asked, <Does anyone know when the United States adopted the Bald Eagle for it's National Symbol? Also, why and when?> Rick, I believe that some readings about the post-Revolution will answer all your questions. Ben Franklin was a big part of that issue. There were those who wanted the wild turkey as our national (bird) symbol. I don't know if Ben was pro or anti-turkey. But those involved ended up with the bald eagle. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Horses & Gunfire Date: 05 Oct 2001 21:38:28 -0600 This might be more appropriate off list but it may stimulate some conversations or be of interest to others who may not be familiar with horses. Mr Newbill I have been thinking a bit about your gelding. Of course I do not know how advanced he is in his training but from your descriptions of his wild behavior under a little stress I wonder if he needs to be sacked out. I will ramble a bit about sacking out, please do not be offended if you already know this stuff, I do not mean to insult your intelligence but you or others might find the information helpful. The principle of sacking out is in part to desensitize the horse to sudden movements, noises, big objects, etc. The other part is to teach the horse what behaviors are acceptable when they are stressed while in your presence. There are articles and books that give better details than I will one of them is my latest find which is written by Charles O Williamson. I recently worked my baby mule using methods similar to his descriptions. She is not especially concerned with boogie monsters so it went pretty well. I put her in a small rickety old corral (less than ideal). Putting the beginning touches on by teaching her to accept being petted all over and handled was started shortly after she hit the ground for the first time so now that she is a two year old its old hat, but after putting a good bosal on with a couple wraps taken off to make it plenty loose and the reins shortened to act like a fiador and keep it from pulling off her nose. I asked her to lunge around in a circle. After a couple of rounds I said ôwhoaö just like I do when I am riding. Then I flicked the lead rope a couple of times to slap the bosal against her jaw and nose. Waiting for a response after each flick until she planted her feet. Then I approached her and petted her and talked real nice. Then we repeated it again until she understood going either way that whoa meant to plant them feet. After that I started petting all over and then petting all over with my hat (which is pretty scary). Then a saddle blanket and finally an old blind that was handy, it was big and noisy and stiff (even tied it on her and let her walk around with it on her back). During it all I insisted she stand still, unless otherwise directed to move, by saying whoa if she looked to move and used the bosal to reinforce it. I would start gently and work up to more wild antics. I would also frequently stop and pet and talk nice to her and let her move around. Then back to work. It is ok if she was worried about this stuff but not ok if she bolted etc.. This sort of training may be very helpful with your gelding who sounds pretty worried about things. Remember to never use an object you are using as a scary stimuli to hurt the horse. That only proves it should be feared. I used a hide that Rick Williams was dehairing to work a three year old at nationals. When I was finished he was enjoying the rubbing. Being away from his herd he never did settle down like his ussual self but he remained manageable and did not throw me a mile high in front of everyone. But I would never have been able to ride him into the whiskey tent and light a cigar before shooting my way back out, like some famous/infamous horseman have been known to do. So there is still work to do. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horses & Gunfire Date: 05 Oct 2001 21:57:44 -0500 <html><head></head><body>Wynn Ormond wrote: <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3BBE7CB4.61F33AEF@sourceoneinternet.com"><pre wrap="">This might be more appropriate off list but it may stimulate some conversations or be of interest to others who may not be familiar with horses.</pre> </blockquote> I've seen a lot of strange stuff go by on this list... and I don't think talking about horses & gunfire is inappropriate. No more than discussing any other mode of transportation available in 1810 or so. <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3BBE7CB4.61F33AEF@sourceoneinternet.com"><pre wrap="">Mr Newbill I have been thinking a bit about your gelding. Of course I do not know how advanced he is in his training but from your descriptions of his wild behavior under a little stress I wonder if he needs to be sacked out.</pre> </blockquote> With him, I'm sometimes more tempted to sack him with a .50 ball than a saddleblanket..... wonder if horseflesh is really sweeter than beef. <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3BBE7CB4.61F33AEF@sourceoneinternet.com"><pre wrap="">I will ramble a bit about sacking out, please do not be offended</pre> </blockquote> Wynn... I rarely get offended at folks, and never at those offering heartfelt advice. This old horse (17 or so), is just twitchy. Has been since he was a foal. I've sacked him before, but I think there are no branches on his family tree. It's probably the Thourghbred in him. He was gifted to me by a good friend, otherwise he'd a been gone down the road by now. He's actually far better now than he was a year ago... when I got him, the shutter of a camera meant rodeo time. On the plus side, he steps out on the trail and keeps the string moving pretty well. What I'm working towards with him is to simply be able to take him into an active camp (tent's flapping, guns firing, etc). Eventually, I hope to be able to hold the reins, and shoot without loosing an arm.... but that's in the future. <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3BBE7CB4.61F33AEF@sourceoneinternet.com"><pre wrap="">I do not mean to insult your intelligence</pre> </blockquote> Naw.... that's what I keep my teenagers around for :) Appreciate the advice.... I hadn't thought of working him up to a crinkly piece of material. Always sacked with sacks/saddleblankets/hats. Better build up my corral and increase my life insurance before I get that far! Regards from Idaho.... where the nip of fall is in the air. Lee Newbill <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3BBE7CB4.61F33AEF@sourceoneinternet.com"><pre wrap=""></pre> </blockquote> </body></html> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Zeigler" <slzeigle@sunlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: test delete Date: 08 Oct 2001 19:29:11 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1502F.8199A660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable test ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1502F.8199A660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#c0c0c0> <DIV>test</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1502F.8199A660-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Date: 08 Oct 2001 23:21:31 EDT --part1_6.1d43ae71.28f3c73b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello the Camp I made my wife a split elk skin dress years a go. It is made of two large pieces front and back that go to about the knees and two piece that attach and extend the dress to the ankles. I used thongs thru antler buttons with red and blue crow beads to attach them to the upper part so they could be removed if she wanted. The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? How about the crow beads? Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader --part1_6.1d43ae71.28f3c73b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>Hello the Camp I made my wife a split elk skin dress years a go. It is made of two large pieces front and back that go to about the knees and two piece that attach and extend the dress to the ankles. I used thongs thru antler buttons with red and blue crow beads to attach them to the upper part so they could be removed if she wanted. The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? How about the crow beads? Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader</HTML> --part1_6.1d43ae71.28f3c73b_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: 09 Oct 2001 01:00:53 EDT In a message dated 10/8/01 8:22:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MarkLoader@aol.com writes: << The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? How about the crow beads? >> Mark, You haven't mentioned what area/time frame/persona she is portraying, but just plain brained leather thong woven through the pieces, or for something a bit fancier, attached with purple-top "sacred" cowrie shells, pieces of Abalone shell, etc. might be nice. Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Horses & Gunfire Date: 09 Oct 2001 06:51:07 -0600 Lee Newbill wrote: With him, I'm sometimes more tempted to sack him with a .50 ball than a saddleblanket..... wonder if horseflesh is really sweeter than beef. I would like to try horse flesh myself just to say I had, but at 17 he is likely to be beyond his prime. CanÆt you get a younger problem horse we could eat? Lee Newbill wrote: This old horse (17 or so), is just twitchy. Has been since he was a foal. I've sacked him before, but I think there are no branches on his family tree. It's probably the Thourghbred in him. Funny how one person talks about quarter horses using thoroughbred breeding to ôPut inteligience into the bred,ö while others cuss the foolishness of the cross. At any rate, by that age I would not expect to change an ingrained personality trait, but you maybe could improve a bad thing. Using the bosal or similar equipment to teach the whoa and demand that he stay planted might help save your catch pen during the lessons. Horses are in fathomable. There is always something more to learn about them, or at least I hope so since that is part of my fascination with them. This last weekend my 2 year old mule gave me an education in light hands. If I really work hard to use my cues properly she stays collected and will do whatever I ask, but if I start thinking that the slack rein and asking are not that necessary (IÆll make her turn or stop attitude) sheÆs pretty good at humbling me. Good luck with your problem child. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: 09 Oct 2001 12:20:07 -0400 Dumb question... why get rid of the antler buttons? Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Date: 09 Oct 2001 11:56:59 -0600 Mr Miller I think the question is where they used and if not ! then we have the answer. I personally have never seen a reference to them as used. they would have been way to hard to make in the field or at camp with out a saw. I would not have tried to carry a saw. If I needed a button I would have used a wood tong carved with a knife. Or a green bone. Bill -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Addison Miller Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:20 AM Dumb question... why get rid of the antler buttons? Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: 09 Oct 2001 14:33:46 -0500 Mr. Klesinger, What is a green bone? Thanks, Victoria On Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:56:59 -0600 "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> writes: > If I needed a button I would have used > a wood tong carved with a knife. Or a green bone. > > Bill > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe <gnoe39@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: 09 Oct 2001 12:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Victoria, I think a "green" bone, is a fresh, raw bone. One still soft and more easily worked than a "old" dry one. My thoughts, was that type of button used at that time ? If so they might have been obtained by trade with the Indians (if they made them), or at "rondy". $00.02 --- Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com> wrote: > > Mr. Klesinger, > > What is a green bone? > > Thanks, > Victoria > > On Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:56:59 -0600 "Bill Klesinger" > <bill@klesinger.com> > writes: > > > If I needed a button I would have used > > a wood tong carved with a knife. Or a green bone. > > > > Bill > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: 09 Oct 2001 16:00:49 EDT --part1_12b.59ac931.28f4b171_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The buttons are antler cut across the beam about 3/16 inch thick. They would have been very difficult to make with primitive tools. Antler buttons seam to the Hollywood time period better. Want to fit pre 1830 period. Thanks Mark --part1_12b.59ac931.28f4b171_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>The buttons are antler cut across the beam about 3/16 inch thick. They would have been very difficult to make with primitive tools. Antler buttons seam to the Hollywood time period better. Want to fit pre 1830 period. Thanks Mark</HTML> --part1_12b.59ac931.28f4b171_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: 09 Oct 2001 16:49:23 -0400 I see what you mean about the buttons.... good point. Thank you for the education. :) Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Date: 09 Oct 2001 16:44:06 -0600 I call a green bone one that has not been cooked , I guess that a better way to say it would be raw bone. Bill -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Victoria Pate Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 1:34 PM Mr. Klesinger, What is a green bone? Thanks, Victoria On Tue, 9 Oct 2001 11:56:59 -0600 "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> writes: > If I needed a button I would have used > a wood tong carved with a knife. Or a green bone. > > Bill > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Womens belt Date: 10 Oct 2001 21:37:17 EDT --part1_13f.2c017cc.28f651cd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On page 31 of Hanson's Feminine Fur Trade Fashions is a belt with large German silver disks. Would it have been worn pre 1830 or later like on a reservation? Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader --part1_13f.2c017cc.28f651cd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>On page 31 of Hanson's Feminine Fur Trade Fashions is a belt with large German silver disks. Would it have been worn pre 1830 or later like on a reservation? Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader</HTML> --part1_13f.2c017cc.28f651cd_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Canadian Encyclopedia is now online Date: 11 Oct 2001 13:16:37 -0600 The Canadian Encyclopedia is now available online, for free, as a service from Canada's Historica Foundation: http://thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?TCE_Version=A Search the Canadian Encyclopedia for great articles on subjects like the Hudson's Bay Company, David Thompson, Dr. John McLoughlin, the North West Company, trade silver, and so much more. It's a great resource that has been available to Canadians for the last twenty years, and is now available to anyone with 'net access. The Historica Foundation also plans to release the Canadian Dictionary of Biography on CD-ROM. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: 11 Oct 2001 21:38:19 -0600 Mark - Brass or pewter or bone buttons should work. If you need some = bone buttons, let me know what size and maybe I can make some for her. = Don Keas On Tuesday, November 26, 1940, MarkLoader@aol.com wrote: >Hello the Camp >I made my wife a split elk skin dress years a go. It is made of >two large pieces front and back that go to about the knees and >two piece that attach and extend the dress to the ankles. I >used thongs thru antler buttons with red and blue crow beads to >attach them to the upper part so they could be removed if she >wanted. The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what >to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? =A0How about the = crow beads? >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Mark & his buttons Date: 12 Oct 2001 15:02:05 EDT In a message dated 10/12/1 4:34:14 AM, pdkeas@market1.com writes: << The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what >to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? =A0How about the cr= ow=20 beads? >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader>> How about just ties? That is what you find on original Indian clothes=20 and "whatevers". If you will look close at that classic photo of Jim Bridge= r=20 with the big wide-brimmed hat, you will notice he is wearing a vest that has= =20 lost a button. Jim has put a tie in the button hole and replaced the button= =20 with a second tied-string. You can't get more authentic than Jim Bridger. Cheers, Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Mark & his buttons Date: 12 Oct 2001 15:02:05 EDT In a message dated 10/12/1 4:34:14 AM, pdkeas@market1.com writes: << The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what >to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? =A0How about the cr= ow=20 beads? >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader>> How about just ties? That is what you find on original Indian clothes=20 and "whatevers". If you will look close at that classic photo of Jim Bridge= r=20 with the big wide-brimmed hat, you will notice he is wearing a vest that has= =20 lost a button. Jim has put a tie in the button hole and replaced the button= =20 with a second tied-string. You can't get more authentic than Jim Bridger. Cheers, Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ned Eddins" <neddins@silverstar.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:16:32 -0600 Date: 12 Oct 2001 15:15:31 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C15330.DFE2C180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I am researching the Indian Fur Trade Era 1804 to 1843. If any of you = are interested in corresponding with me through this forum or by direct = e-mail, neddins@silverstar.com, please do so. My web site = www.thefurtrapper.com will give you a lots of information about me and = my interests...Hope to hear from all of you, Ned=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C15330.DFE2C180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> I am researching the Indian Fur Trade Era 1804 to = 1843. If=20 any of you are interested in corresponding with me through this forum or = by=20 direct e-mail, neddins@silverstar.com, please do so. My web site=20 www.thefurtrapper.com will give you a lots of information about me and = my=20 interests...Hope to hear from all of you, Ned </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C15330.DFE2C180-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Mark & his buttons Date: 12 Oct 2001 17:18:16 -0400 I have been following this conversation for a while. Please do not use horn buttons or ties. Most these early dresses were finely sewn together or very carefully laced with THIN leather. Not these massive lacings and ties I see on so many Rendezoux dresses and pants. They did you some brass buttons, but they were decoration. And they were make from thinner leather than the heavy elk we see today. Like Mountain sheep or goat or what ever is bounding up and down those mountains out there besides wild mountain men and strange hunters. Antelope is also a good material. .......Oh! heck, just make here another dress and make that other one a camp dress. Linda Holley Linda Holley SWzypher@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/12/1 4:34:14 AM, pdkeas@market1.com writes: > > << The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what > > >to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? How about the crow > beads? > > >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader>> > > How about just ties? That is what you find on original Indian clothes > and "whatevers". If you will look close at that classic photo of Jim Bridger > with the big wide-brimmed hat, you will notice he is wearing a vest that has > lost a button. Jim has put a tie in the button hole and replaced the button > with a second tied-string. You can't get more authentic than Jim Bridger. > > Cheers, > Richard James > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas <pdkeas@market1.com> Subject: Display Notification: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:16:32 -0600 Date: 12 Oct 2001 19:39:41 -0600 This is a confirmation that the message has been displayed to the user. = Note: This is NOT a guarantee that the message has been read or understood.= ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Womens belt Date: 12 Oct 2001 20:55:02 -0500 Mark, Nickel Silver (aka German Silver) is circa 1850. Per an article Charles Hanson published in the MFTQ back in the early '80's. John... At 09:37 PM 10/10/01 -0400, you wrote: >On page 31 of Hanson's Feminine Fur Trade Fashions is a belt with large >German silver disks. Would it have been worn pre 1830 or later like on a >reservation? >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader ____________________________________________________________ "The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure." -- Albert Einstein ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Womens belt Date: 13 Oct 2001 00:53:25 EDT --part1_3b.1ba1dfc2.28f922c5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Thanks for the info I found the article in the summer 1981 issue The Museum of the Fur Trade quarterly on Plains Indian Hair Plates. It refers to a Seneca wearing them in 1830 and David Burnet describing them on the Comanches in 1820. Also they were painted by Catlin in 1834 on a Kiowa chief, by Miller on several Sioux and by Albert on a Cheyenne at Bent Fort in 1845. The oldest documented set of hair plate are in the US National Museum are brass collected by Gunnison from the Ute in 1853. John My pot may be used again this week end at the Fort Restaurant Thanks again Mark "Roadkill" Loader --part1_3b.1ba1dfc2.28f922c5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>John Thanks for the info I found the article in the summer 1981 issue The Museum of the Fur Trade quarterly on Plains Indian Hair Plates. It refers to a Seneca wearing them in 1830 and David Burnet describing them on the Comanches in 1820. Also they were painted by Catlin in 1834 on a Kiowa chief, by Miller on several Sioux and by Albert on a Cheyenne at Bent Fort in 1845. The oldest documented set of hair plate are in the US National Museum are brass collected by Gunnison from the Ute in 1853. John My pot may be used again this week end at the Fort Restaurant Thanks again Mark "Roadkill" Loader</HTML> --part1_3b.1ba1dfc2.28f922c5_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Buck Connor Date: 13 Oct 2001 07:38:39 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C153BA.138AF1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where is Buck Connor ? I have a message for him ! I have not heard from him in a bit. Dose anyone know if he is back on line ? Bill ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C153BA.138AF1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>Where = is Buck Connor=20 ? I have a message for him ! I have not heard from him in a bit. Dose = anyone=20 know if he is back on line ?</DIV> <DIV><SPAN=20 class=3D876053613-13102001> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN=20 class=3D876053613-13102001>Bill</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C153BA.138AF1E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ned Eddins" <neddins@silverstar.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Re. Horses & Gunfire Date: 14 Oct 2001 09:26:31 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C15492.4F71C8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr. Newman, I am new to your group so if I don't follow the proper protocol please = forgive me. As an Equine Veterinarian, I learned not to be critical of = someone's horse, but since I no longer practice, I will throw in my two = cents on your problem horse. The advice on "sacking out" that you have = been given works great and should done when breaking any young horse. On = a seventeen year old horse, I seriously question its value. It sounds as = if your gelding has responded in some ways, but the problem is that this = lulls you into a false sense of security. Riding in the mountains, you = are going to get into wrecks, esp. with pack strings, and believe me, I = have had them. When this happens, the last thing you want is for your = saddle horse to be the biggest problem. To me, a spoiled horse, which is = what you have, is the most dangerous of any horse.by spoiled, I mean he = was not taught to mind at an early age. If you ever try to shoot a gun = off him, I would do it in chest deep water, and be sure to video it. = Have you considered why your good friend gave you this horse? The old vaquero way of sacking out was to throw the horse and tie him = down then do all of the new "sacking out" techniques.they did this in = the movie The Horse Whisperer, but doing it with a saddle on was = ridiculous. I have done this on flighty young horses and it works. I = have also done it on older horses and it helps, but you could never = trust them. If I was going to do anything with your horse this would be = it, but.. The best thing about sacking out the old way is if your horse = get tangled up in barbwire, it will stand and not fight the wire.=20 Let me make one other comment. As an American Quarter Horse and Paint = Horse Show Judge for many, many years, in my humble opinion the best = thing that happened to the quarter horse was the thoroughbred cross. The = old pure quarter horse was a squat, heavy muscled, piggy moving horse = with lots of lameness problems i.e. navicular. My horses have always = had just enough quarter horse in them to be registered. With different = ones, I have had ropes under their tails, legs wrapped in barbwire, and = been in places where I wished to h. I was somewhere else. The secret to = a good horse or mule was in Mr. Wynn comment.light hands and leg cues. Good Luck, Ned ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C15492.4F71C8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New">Mr. Newman, I am new to your group so if I don’t follow = the proper=20 protocol please forgive me. As an=20 Equine Veterinarian, I learned not to be critical of someone’s = horse, but since=20 I no longer practice, I will throw in my two cents on your problem = horse.<SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> The advice on “sacking = out” that you have=20 been given works great and should done when breaking any young horse. On = a=20 seventeen year old horse, I seriously question its value. It sounds as = if your=20 gelding has responded in some ways, but the problem is that this lulls = you into=20 a false sense of security. Riding in the mountains, you are going to get = into=20 wrecks, esp. with pack strings, and believe me, I have had them. = When this=20 happens, the last thing you want is for your saddle horse to be the = biggest=20 problem. To me, a spoiled = horse,=20 which is what you have, is the most dangerous of any horse…by = spoiled, I mean he=20 was not taught to mind at an early age. =20 If you ever try to shoot a gun off him, I would do it in chest = deep=20 water, and be sure to video it. Have you considered why your good friend = gave=20 you this horse? The old vaquero way of sacking out was to throw the = horse and=20 tie him down then do all of the new “sacking out” = techniques…they did this in=20 the movie The Horse Whisperer, but doing it with a saddle on was=20 ridiculous. I have done = this on=20 flighty young horses and it works. I have also done it on older horses = and it=20 helps, but you could never trust them. If I was going to do anything = with your=20 horse this would be it, but…. The=20 best thing about sacking out the old way is if your horse get tangled up = in=20 barbwire, it will stand and not fight the wire. Let me make one other comment. As an American = Quarter Horse=20 and Paint Horse Show Judge for many, many years, in my humble = opinion<SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> the best thing that happened to = the=20 quarter horse was the thoroughbred cross.<SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> The old pure quarter horse was = a squat,=20 heavy muscled, piggy moving horse with lots of lameness problems i.e.=20 navicular. My horses have = always=20 had just enough quarter horse in them to be registered. With different = ones, I=20 have had ropes under their tails, legs wrapped in barbwire, and been in = places=20 where I wished to h… I was somewhere else.<SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> The secret to a good horse or = mule was in=20 Mr. Wynn comment…light hands and leg cues. Good Luck, Ned</DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C15492.4F71C8E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Horse & Gunfire Date: 14 Oct 2001 11:12:36 -0600 Mr. Ned Eddins welcome to the group. You might find some interesting insights here that may help with your writing. Many here have tried to recreate pieces and parts of history. It can change your perspective some. As your web site says, ôA good deal of the written history of this period reflects the prejudices of the times rather than the actual events.ö It might also be said with equal truth that what we write/critic today is prejudiced by our times and expericences. While your comments on horses are well taken if I could make a small correction. Lee Newbill is the fine gentleman with old trouble maker caballo, not ôMr. Newmanö, and I am Wynn Ormond not Mr Wynn. As to throwing a horse to sack it out, that is not whispering that pretty well constitutes shouting. <G> As for shooting off a horse, I talked to an old ranch hand and hunter from Northern Utah and he related several times that he witnessed men attempt and succeed in taking game off horseback. I am still skeptical to its value except at real close range. However Mr Newbill if you make that attempt, I want a copy of the video. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ned Eddins" <neddins@silverstar.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horse & Gunfire Date: 14 Oct 2001 11:46:19 -0600 I apologize for getting the names wrong...in the future, I will be more careful in taking names out of the context of messages. Hopefully, I will get to know each of you. In my foolish youth, I shot off a gentle, well-broke horse. As I remember, it took some time for the black eyes to clear up...Ned ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re. Horses & Gunfire Date: 14 Oct 2001 16:31:39 -0500 <html><head></head><body>Ned Eddins wrote: <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:001401c154c4$9acc7ba0$e543170c@dell"> <div> If you ever try to shoot a gun off him, I would do it in chest deep water, and be sure to video it. Have you considered why your good friend gave you this horse? </div> </blockquote> Wynn did write.... <pre wrap="">> As for shooting off a horse..... However Mr Newbill if you make that attempt, I want a copy > of the video.</pre> Sheesh. Everyone wants a rodeo video. I'm getting old enough (if not smart enough) that I thy and avoid those "adventures" if at all possible. Think I'll pass on that one folks... sorry <G> The horse was gifted to me after a friend went through an ugly little divorce. I have made progress with him, but it is slow and he'll revert to his old ways unless I keep after him. I figger by the time he is to old to work, he'll be ready to work.... sigh. Maybe I shoulda looked a gift horse in the mouth, eh? Took him for a ride today, started to put the flinter in the scabbard, then changed my mind... didna wanna chance it. Two hours into the ride, I sat and watched a whitetail doe at about 30 yards. Probably for the best I left the old smoke pole on the wall. Next time I'll take the mare and the flinter. Regards from the mountains of Idaho... Lee Newbill </body></html> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. Smith" <dlsmith@about.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Buck Connor Date: 14 Oct 2001 18:23:35 -0600 > THIS IS A MESSAGE IN 'MIME' FORMAT. Your mail reader does not support MIME. > Please read the first section, which is plain text, and ignore the rest. --Interpart.Boundary.11.22.33.M2Y90 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html><head><meta Name='keywords' Content='commtouch, pronto, mail, free email, free, branded, web based, free web based email, communications, internet, software, advertising banners, e-mail, free software'></head><body ><div align='left'><blockquote><blockquote><TT>Bill, Talked to him about two weeks ago, he had just got back from southern Utah and was heading out again to look at property in Grand Junction, CO. Said S.UT was to damn dry and hot for him, didn't care for the desert style of living, been in the rockies to long, plus G.J.CO was closer to AMM property. I'll see if I can run him down, hear the phone company was cutting 4000 jobs with a large percentage coming from engineering where he's at, with Buck's years of service and close to retirement he maybe moving west ? If I get hold of him I'll have him call you. </TT> <TT>Later, Daniel L. "Concho" Smith _____________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT_______HRD__ http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/_________HRD__ _____________________________________________ Words to live by: Sometimes you are sad... And no one sees your tears. Sometimes you are happy... And no one sees your smile. But fart just one time... </TT> <TT>Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com </TT></blockquote></blockquote></div></body></html> --Interpart.Boundary.11.22.33.M2Y90 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="OriginalBody.htm" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OriginalBody.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: OriginalBody.htm PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9u YWwvL0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFy c2V0PWlzby04ODU5LTEiIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9Q29udGVudC1UeXBlPg0KPE1FVEEgY29udGVu dD0iTVNIVE1MIDUuMDAuMjkyMC4wIiBuYW1lPUdFTkVSQVRPUj48L0hFQUQ+DQo8Qk9EWT4N CjxESVY+PEZPTlQgZmFjZT1BcmlhbCBzaXplPTI+PFNQQU4gY2xhc3M9ODc2MDUzNjEzLTEz MTAyMDAxPldoZXJlIGlzIEJ1Y2sgQ29ubm9yIA0KPyBJIGhhdmUgYSBtZXNzYWdlIGZvciBo aW0gISBJIGhhdmUgbm90IGhlYXJkIGZyb20gaGltIGluIGEgYml0LiBEb3NlIGFueW9uZSAN Cmtub3cgaWYgaGUgaXMgYmFjayBvbiBsaW5lID88L1NQQU4+PC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJ Vj48Rk9OVCBmYWNlPUFyaWFsIHNpemU9Mj48U1BBTiANCmNsYXNzPTg3NjA1MzYxMy0xMzEw MjAwMT48L1NQQU4+PC9GT05UPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPg0KPERJVj48Rk9OVCBmYWNlPUFyaWFs IHNpemU9Mj48U1BBTiANCmNsYXNzPTg3NjA1MzYxMy0xMzEwMjAwMT5CaWxsPC9TUEFOPjwv Rk9OVD48L0RJVj4NCjxQPiZuYnNwOzwvUD4NCjxESVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+PC9CT0RZPjwv SFRNTD4NCg== --Interpart.Boundary.11.22.33.M2Y90-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Kids Camp Looking for Buffalo Head Mount Date: 14 Oct 2001 22:31:34 EDT Everyone; I have been working with a kids' summer camp helping them develop a new program that revolves around Native Americans and the buffalo culture. They are trying to fins a mounted buffalo head for the camp to be used in ceremonies, etc. I have suggested a skull but they are determined to find a complete head. If any one out there know of one available, would you please get in touch with me. The camp is a non-profit so the mount could be donated for a tax donation (which is their preferred method of acquisition). A good price on that old dusty buffalo in the attice would be of great help to the kids. Thanks in advance. Jim Hardee, AMM #1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <zaz@pop.pacificnet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re. Horses & Gunfire Date: 14 Oct 2001 23:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Lee, I wanted to respond earlier, but have not had the opportunity. Here is my experience with my horses. One of my horses is a good old boy. He is 20 years old and I can shoot off him, trailer him anywhere and let my grandchildren ride him. He is a finished horse and was used as a roping and team penning horse; He has great instincts and I'm sure someone hunted off him in the past. Unfortunately, he has laminitis and is on medication for the rest of his life. He is fine out on trail as long as you don't push him and don't do a lot of hills or rocky terain. Also, he can only be ridden a couple of days in a row and then he has to be rested. The horse that I ride the most is also 20 years old but acts (both physically and emotionally) more like a 10 year old. Before I bought him, he was kept in a corral for about 6 to 8 years and only ridden once every 6 months. I have been riding him for the past 6 years and he is one of the best trail horses I have ever seen. I can go anywhere with him but it did take about 2 years of patience and work to get to where he is today. He climbs straight up hills that I didn't think it was possible for him to climb. He will just about go anywhere I ask him to and I can take him out on trail alone or with any other horse. I have even taken him through a drainpipe/tunnel that was pitch black and goes under a highway and is a quarter mile long but just big enough for him to get through. I couldn't tell until we returned through it, but there were bats flying around in it. He was absolutely afraid of water when I bought him and now I can take him through rivers. As you can see, he totally trusts me. There is one thing, though, that I have not been able to do with him. That is shooting off him. He is petrified of loud noises when they are close to him. I was told that a previous owner tried to use him as a Civil War Cavalry re-enactment horse and suspect that, that might have something to do with the problem. I have taken him to mounted shooting events and tried to get him to relax, but he cannot totally. I have tried shooting a cap gun around him and that scares him. About the only time he has calmed down when shooting is going on is when he is with his buddy, the other 20 year old. I pretty much have come to the conclusion that I will not be able to shoot off him and have accepted that. He is able to be around shooting, but that is about it. What I have learned is that there are just some horses that you can do some things with and some you cannot. That is just the way it is. Good luck and be patient. Best Regards, Jerry Zaslow #1488 ________________________________________________________________________________ At 04:31 PM 10/14/2001 -0500, you wrote: ><html><head></head><body>Ned Eddins wrote: ><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:001401c154c4$9acc7ba0$e543170c@dell"> > <div> > If you ever try to shoot a gun off him, I would do >it in chest deep water, and be sure to video it. Have you considered why >your good friend gave you this horse? > </div> > </blockquote> >Wynn did write.... > <pre wrap="">> As for shooting off a horse..... However Mr Newbill if you make that attempt, I want a copy > of the video.</pre> >Sheesh. Everyone wants a rodeo video. I'm getting old enough (if not smart >enough) that I thy and avoid those "adventures" if at all possible. Think >I'll pass on that one folks... sorry <G> > >The horse was gifted to me after a friend went through an ugly little divorce. > I have made progress with him, but it is slow and he'll revert to his old >ways unless I keep after him. I figger by the time he is to old to work, >he'll be ready to work.... sigh. Maybe I shoulda looked a gift horse in >the mouth, eh? > >Took him for a ride today, started to put the flinter in the scabbard, then >changed my mind... didna wanna chance it. Two hours into the ride, I sat >and watched a whitetail doe at about 30 yards. Probably for the best I left >the old smoke pole on the wall. Next time I'll take the mare and the flinter. > >Regards from the mountains of Idaho... > >Lee Newbill > > > ></body></html> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Horses Date: 15 Oct 2001 08:43:46 -0500 <html><head></head><body>Hallo Jerry We'll see how the old boy does this week. I'm taking him and my other two horses out on Friday for a three day hunt with Vern Illi (Wilson Hunt Price Party) and to finish up my Bossloper requirements. I've got him to the point where we don't dance off the side of mountain when gunfire erupts, but I still can't trust him enough to dismount and shoot in front of him. He no longer hightails it for Colorado at the sight of my flinter, but he still jumps a foot or two everytime there is a bang. Other than his phobia with sharp noises, he's a pretty decent animal. A bit taller than I like at 16.3 hands (it's a long way up to the stirrup for a short legged guy like me). We're heading out to camp and hunt at the site of the 2000 AMM nationals. Last time I checked, the deer were plentiful and the elk were moving through. The snow line is about 100 yards up the mountain from my house, so it should be a good time. Regards from Idaho.... Lee Newbill </body></html> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Geezer Camp 2001 Date: 15 Oct 2001 20:19:08 -0700 Hello the Camp! Todd has all ready given you a good idea of what took place and the feeling of the camp. The following is the list of those that attended. Walt Hayward Ron Archibald Ferral Peterson Todd Glover Ole Jensen Lamar Higbee Yaro Dog Marvin Sharp Dick James Allan Turner Bill Cunningham Rod Larkin Mike Powell Dean Rudy Louis Lasiter And Susie who run's the trading post Ymos Ole # 718 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <zaz@pop.pacificnet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horses Date: 15 Oct 2001 21:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Lee, Sounds like a great trip. Congratulations of getting your Bossloper requirements finished. That is an accomplishment in itself. Hopefully your horse will do well with the other 2. Mine seems to do best around shooting with his buddy (I mentioned in my last message) or others that stay calm. I also can keep him much calmer when I am on him. Is it easier for you to keep him calm when you are on him or on the ground? Anyway, don't give up on him; with a lot of patience you might find he will eventually understand that the shots and noise won't hurt him. Also, keeping him calm when shooting is going on by someone else is half the battle. Sounds like a good solid horse at 16.3 and just get a flying start when getting into the saddle. Mine isn't quite so tall at 15.3 but he is good and solid (close to 1100 lbs.) I'm also going to try and get out with my horse over the weekend sometime either the last weekend in October or in the middle of November. Those are the only times I will not be working on a Saturday. Not going to try and do any hunting with him at this time. If there is any hunting to be done, it will be by the other person I am going with. He has shot off his horse. Have a great time. Best Regards, Jerry Zaslow #1488 _______________________________________________________________________________ At 08:43 AM 10/15/2001 -0500, you wrote: ><html><head></head><body>Hallo Jerry > >We'll see how the old boy does this week. I'm taking him and my other two >horses out on Friday for a three day hunt with Vern Illi (Wilson Hunt Price >Party) and to finish up my Bossloper requirements. I've got him to the point >where we don't dance off the side of mountain when gunfire erupts, but I >still can't trust him enough to dismount and shoot in front of him. He no >longer hightails it for Colorado at the sight of my flinter, but he still >jumps a foot or two everytime there is a bang. > >Other than his phobia with sharp noises, he's a pretty decent animal. A >bit taller than I like at 16.3 hands (it's a long way up to the stirrup for >a short legged guy like me). > >We're heading out to camp and hunt at the site of the 2000 AMM nationals. >Last time I checked, the deer were plentiful and the elk were moving through. >The snow line is about 100 yards up the mountain from my house, so it should >be a good time. > >Regards from Idaho.... > >Lee Newbill > ></body></html> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Info on Alafia Ronnyvous Date: 19 Oct 2001 12:06:25 -0400 I had several people email me and tell me that the link from my web site to the Florida Frontiersmen site did not work. They changed their URL and dinna tell me!!... *grins*... I fixed it, and it now works. For info on the 2002 Alifia Ronny, go to my site www.geocities.com/ronnyvous and near the bottom of the page, click on the Florida Frontiersmen logo fo get to them. Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire Date: 19 Oct 2001 10:23:19 -0600 Mr. Wynn Ormond wrote: >As for shooting off a horse, I >talked to an old ranch hand and hunter from Northern Utah and he related >several times that he witnessed men attempt and succeed in taking game >off horseback. I am still skeptical to its value except at real close >range. Well, to get this back to a historical turn, isn't that the classic buffalo hunting technique? Let your prime buffalo-running horse bring you close to the buffalo, and shoot the critter from right alongside? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire Date: 19 Oct 2001 10:59:41 -0600 You are correct Angela ! But something has not been brought out about shooting from a horse. It is a lot different to shoot from a horse if it is running and has a lot going on around it. And to shoot from one that is calm and relaxed. I would do lot of shooting around a horse. before trying to shoot from one. If I was young and wanted to rodeo then , Shoot.. Bill -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Angela Gottfred Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:23 AM Mr. Wynn Ormond wrote: >As for shooting off a horse, I >talked to an old ranch hand and hunter from Northern Utah and he related >several times that he witnessed men attempt and succeed in taking game >off horseback. I am still skeptical to its value except at real close >range. Well, to get this back to a historical turn, isn't that the classic buffalo hunting technique? Let your prime buffalo-running horse bring you close to the buffalo, and shoot the critter from right alongside? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "darlene secondine" <dmdhsecondine@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire Date: 19 Oct 2001 17:09:57 +0000 Good point Bill, but I might add one note about a previous comment about sacking. When whispering and whispering and whispering and more whispering don't work, you might have to shout. If that don't work, some of them make better dog food than they do mounts. Don in the Ohio Country >From: "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire >Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:59:41 -0600 > >You are correct Angela ! > >But something has not been brought out about shooting from a horse. It is a >lot different to shoot from a horse if it is running and has a lot going on >around it. And to shoot from one that is calm and relaxed. > >I would do lot of shooting around a horse. before trying to shoot from one. >If I was young and wanted to rodeo then , Shoot.. > >Bill > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Angela Gottfred >Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:23 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire > > >Mr. Wynn Ormond wrote: > >As for shooting off a horse, I > >talked to an old ranch hand and hunter from Northern Utah and he related > >several times that he witnessed men attempt and succeed in taking game > >off horseback. I am still skeptical to its value except at real close > >range. > >Well, to get this back to a historical turn, isn't that the classic buffalo >hunting technique? Let your prime buffalo-running horse bring you close to >the buffalo, and shoot the critter from right alongside? > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire Date: 19 Oct 2001 11:21:35 -0600 All dog's have to eat !!! That is a great point. Most people do not think of a horse as livestock, most belive that they are pets. I would sooner get rid of a bad horse that go see a Doc. Bill -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of darlene secondine Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 11:10 AM Good point Bill, but I might add one note about a previous comment about sacking. When whispering and whispering and whispering and more whispering don't work, you might have to shout. If that don't work, some of them make better dog food than they do mounts. Don in the Ohio Country >From: "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire >Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:59:41 -0600 > >You are correct Angela ! > >But something has not been brought out about shooting from a horse. It is a >lot different to shoot from a horse if it is running and has a lot going on >around it. And to shoot from one that is calm and relaxed. > >I would do lot of shooting around a horse. before trying to shoot from one. >If I was young and wanted to rodeo then , Shoot.. > >Bill > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >[mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Angela Gottfred >Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 10:23 AM >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Horses & Gunfire > > >Mr. Wynn Ormond wrote: > >As for shooting off a horse, I > >talked to an old ranch hand and hunter from Northern Utah and he related > >several times that he witnessed men attempt and succeed in taking game > >off horseback. I am still skeptical to its value except at real close > >range. > >Well, to get this back to a historical turn, isn't that the classic buffalo >hunting technique? Let your prime buffalo-running horse bring you close to >the buffalo, and shoot the critter from right alongside? > >Your humble & obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Glise Date: 19 Oct 2001 12:46:25 -0500 I talked to Laura Glise last night and for the first time she was very depressed.....very nearly over the edge. She said that the latest tests from Duke U. Hospital indicated that her brain tumor had not grown, which was interpreted by the doctors as a good sign. She has other physical issues that weigh heavily on her...mainly swelling resulting from the medications she is taking. She is scheduled to begin another regimen of chemotherapy for the tumor beginning today. She is working back at her school, which is a relief. She didn't say so, but I think that getting notes from some of her friends would go a long way toward making her feel connected with her "past" life. Her entire existence since March has revolved around that damn tumor. She still can't really function on the internet so don't bother using email because she won't see it. Phone calls are still a real problem, so save your calls until she is able to cope with them. Written notes, photographs, cards would be best. Once she sent us a couple of leaves from her yard. That sort of thing. Lanney Ratcliff Laura Glise 3841 Prestwick Lane SE Olympia, WA 98501 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laura Glise Date: 19 Oct 2001 16:26:11 -0400 Thanks Lanney.... I have never met her, but I think she is a great gal. She sent me a signed copy of her new book via friends to the Alafia last January. Meant alot to me. Vicki and I will be sending her a card... Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:57:33 -0500 Date: 19 Oct 2001 17:08:01 -0600 Ad Click here and dig through the site and you will find out more about Laura, including a photo of her and of her and her daughter (and info about her book, too). Look closely at the photo of just her and notice the brooch she is wearing. It's a Star Trek com badge...you know the one all the Enterprise crew members touch to talk to somebody. That is the personality we're dealing with. I like it. Lanney http://www.trafford.com/trafford.acgi$view-item?item=732&84184800-26110aaa Lanney Ratcliff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Funk" <j2hearts@shasta.com> Subject: MtMan-List: OFF TOPIC..depending on what topic we're on.. Date: 19 Oct 2001 16:43:48 -0700 (This is one of the MOST IMPORTANT CASES in many, many years!! ╖ U.S. APPEALS COURT FINDS SECOND AMENDMENT GUARANTEES AN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS . . . In a landmark ruling, the U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans held yesterday that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees the right of individuals to keep and bear arms. The court rejected the arguments of the Clinton administration's Justice Department that the Second Amendment does not apply to individuals but merely recognizes the right of the state to arm its militia. The case, United States v. Emerson, arose out of a Texas divorce suit in which a restraining order had been issued against the husband, Dr. Timothy Joe Emerson, who was subsequently charged with violating a federal law that prohibits the possession of firearms while under such a court order. The trial court dismissed the charges against Emerson saying the statute's ban on possession of a firearm while a restraining order was in place, violated, among other rights, the doctor's Second Amendment rights. The Janet Reno Justice Department appealed. While the appeals court ultimately upheld the validity of the federal law - finding that it did not infringe upon Dr. Emerson's rights - the decision is the strongest ruling to date interpreting the Second Amendment. The Court said the words 'the right of the people' in the Second Amendment had the same meaning as when used in the First and Fourth Amendments and, like those Amendments in the Bill of Rights, secures an individual or personal right not a collective or states' right. The Court rejected "the collective rights and sophisticated collective rights models for interpreting the Second Amendment. We hold, .that [the Second Amendment] protects the rights of individuals, including those not then actually a member of any militia or engaged in active military service or training, to privately possess and bear their own firearms, such as the pistol involved here, that are suitable as personal, individual weapons . . ." The Court went on to say "that does not mean that those rights may never be made subject to any limited, narrowly tailored specific exceptions or restrictions for particular cases that are reasonable and not inconsistent with right of Americans generally to individually keep and bear their private arm "The Court's decision is a very thorough and scholarly analyzes of the actual text, history and jurisprudence of the Second Amendment. It reaffirms that the Second Amendment is a cherished civil liberty of equal importance to our nation as the First and Fourth Amendments," said Robert T. Delfay, president and chief executive officer of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, Inc. "Every American, not just firearms owners, should applaud this reaffirmation of the principles and beliefs of our founding fathers." A copy of the United States v. Emerson can be view at http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/99/99-10331-cr0.htm The Brady Center For The Prevention of Gun Violence had filed a "friend of the court" brief supporting the Janet Reno Justice Department's misguided interpretation of the Second Amendment, the latest in a continuing string of defeats for the Brady Center in their campaign to destroy the firearms industry and the Second Amendment. (Thanks NSSF for staying on top of these issues!) ____________________________________________ ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Date: 19 Oct 2001 17:57:51 -0700 Hello the Camp! I have been asked to put together a group of Mountain Men to demonstrate and hands on teaching at East Fork of the Bear Scout Camp next June 20,21 and 22. I have asked for an exclusive area where we can set up our own camp's without intrusion from wandering bands of scouts and other such modern inconvieniences. We will demonstrate primitive skills, weapons, blacksmithing flint knaping. There is good fishing, beaver ponds, plenty of places to ride. Please let me know if you can help. Pleaseeeeeeeee! Ole # 718 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Date: 19 Oct 2001 19:14:59 -0500 Ole Where will this doin's happen? Presumably in NE Utah?? Lanney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Date: 19 Oct 2001 20:23:01 -0400 > I have been asked to put together a group of Mountain Men to demonstrate > and hands on teaching at East Fork of the Bear Scout Camp next June 20,21 > and 22. Not to sound stupid. but in what state is the East Fork of the Bear ??? I'd love to try to make it, but... *grins* I have no idea where I'd be going.... Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Date: 19 Oct 2001 22:20:56 EDT Ole, Just where is this place located??? If it ain't too far I would be glad to help out!!! -C.Kent Eagle Scout 1988 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:57:33 -0500 Date: 19 Oct 2001 21:29:32 -0500 Hello the list, Several weeks ago Lanney mentioned Laura being sad because she missed being able to come down to Texas to eat at her favorite barbeque place in Lockhart, a small town near Austin. If Laura can't come to Texas, then Texas ought to go to Laura. I thought if the MM on this list would donate funds, we could get Laura the BBQ she so misses. I visited with Lanney about the idea. He said it would cost about a hundred dollars, including shipping, for a "nice chunk of meat." Lanney also said he would drive down to Lockhart to purchase and package Laura's present and ship it to her. If any of you all are interested in participating in blessing Laura, please contact me off list. I thought I would get a nice card and write in the names of those who helped in getting her present to her. This is to be a surprise, so please keep it under your hats. Thanks, Victoria vapate@juno.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: MtMan-List: re: Victoria's bbq post Date: 19 Oct 2001 21:57:12 -0500 Ho the list, This is the post I sent to Victoria today about getting Laura some bbq. The bbq at Kreutz's Market is by far the best I have ever eaten. Consider that statement in the context of a Texan admitting that ANYBODY'S bbq is better than his own.....and mine is, indeed, verrrry good. Anybody near Austin or San Antonio needs to make Kreutz'a Market a stop on his/her itinerary. Just keep in mind that they are closed on Sunday. As Victoria said, I will go fetch the bbq and overnight it to Laura. I bragged about Kreutz's Market bbq to Laura when she came home to Texas in January of 2000 and she was skeptical ...until she took the first bite. I hesitate to tell you about the sounds she made while eating. Contact Victoria if your are interested in this little project. Lanney > What is the name of that resturant in Lockhart? > > Kreutz's market. Here is a review by an idiot. He got the meat and > atmosphere reviews right, but there ain't no sauce (which the meat doesn't > need) nor any real sides, and no real service. Service consists of a nice > person selling you what you want quickly and efficiently and moving on to > the next person in line. You go find a place to sit and eat your > meat.....served on a double thick layer of butcher paper with your choice of > soda crackers or white bread......or leave with your meat in a carry out > sack if you ordered "to go". Soda pop and cold beer are available. You are > expected to tidy up after yourself. Like I said.....no service at all. So > that leaves a 5 average...the best possible rating. The meat is about $9 a pound > at their counter. Sending Laura a care package would be a good idea. A > nice chunk of meat and overnight delivery would probably cost around $100. > Why don't you get on the net and see if anybody would like to help out. I > will drive down and get it, handle the packaging and send it if we can get > enough people to chip in. Laura would think it was the best present she > ever got. > Lanney > ps: I think Kreutz is pronounced Krites but I don't know for sure. > pps: Be aware that Kreutz has a new building at a new address....just up > the street from the original site... but it isn't air-conditioned and is as > hot as a foundry on any but the coldest day. > > Kreuz Market > 207 S. Commerce > Lockhart, TX > 512-398-2361 > > Meat 5 > Sides 1 > Sauce 1 > Service 4 > Atmosphere 5 > > Overall 4 > > Reviewer's Comments: This is the third of the Texas Monthly magazine's Top > 3 Texas Q joints. I finally made it there, and while the meat was > incredible, I was disappointed that there was no sauce, nor any sides other > thanpickles, onions, jalapenos, and advacaods. No beans, no sauce, but > that's how Kreuz likes it. Still, this place screams of authenticity. It's > been in the same building since 1900, passed down through the family, and > sold to a long-time employee, who passed it down through his family. When > you enter, smoke smell immediately hits youin the face, and as you approach > the pit, the flames of the wood lick your feet as you wait your turn. They > do not offer ribs or chicken, just brisket, shoulder, pork chops, sausage > and pork loin. I give the meat a hearty thumbs up, but would have liked a > light sauce to sprinkle on it. Sure do wish theyhad some sides, but the > atmosphere is all Q. They giveyou your meat on butcher paper with a plastic > knife,no fork, and you won't get one even if you ask for one... Seating is > in a large hall-like room with long tables, and green, dingy, smoke stained > walls. Worth the trip if in the Austin area!!! > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Date: 20 Oct 2001 08:07:53 -0700 Lanney, About 40 miles south of Evenston Wyoming, It was one of the prime Beaver traping areas. This last year we had a Moose and calf walk through camp. Looks exactly like the camp at Nationals this year but a litle bit cooler due to the Uinta Mountains. YMOS Ole # 718 ---------- >From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 >Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2001, 5:14 PM > >Ole >Where will this doin's happen? Presumably in NE Utah?? >Lanney > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Date: 20 Oct 2001 08:10:24 -0700 Ad, Sorry about that, it is in Utah but just south of the Wyoming boarder. From Salt Lake it is 1 1/2 hr away from Evenston Wyoming it is 1/2 hr. YMOS Ole # 718 ---------- >From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> >To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 >Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2001, 5:23 PM > >> I have been asked to put together a group of Mountain Men to demonstrate >> and hands on teaching at East Fork of the Bear Scout Camp next June 20,21 >> and 22. > >Not to sound stupid. but in what state is the East Fork of the Bear ??? I'd >love to try to make it, but... *grins* I have no idea where I'd be going.... > >Ad Miller >Alderson, WV > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 Date: 20 Oct 2001 08:11:32 -0700 40 miles south of Evenston Wyoming. Ole ---------- >From: HikingOnThru@cs.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Scout Rendezvous (Big Event) 2002 >Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2001, 7:20 PM > >Ole, > >Just where is this place located??? If it ain't too far I would be glad to >help out!!! > >-C.Kent >Eagle Scout 1988 > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DAVID ALBAUGH" <wolftracker55@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? Date: 20 Oct 2001 10:23:03 -0400 Ahoy the list, I've been following the horsemanship postings. I don't keep any horses now, but have owned several, and hoof care was always a major concern for me, "a horse with no feet is no horse at all". I belive that the horse stock in the RMFT must have been hard-footed creatures and had a hard life, as opposed to some of the weak, soft footed horses around now. I also believe that the RMFT horse were probably nearly 100% unshod. I have seen native american bone hoof picks, and the crooked knives that are alot like hoof knives, and the ground is rocky, but what did the native americans and the trappers use to keep their horses hooves in shape? The posts and forts must have had blacksmiths/ferriers, how common was the practice of shoeing. I think I would not want my horses shod, if I were going to be on the ground for 6 mos to a year, what would I carry to use for my horse's hooves? Or did they just not give a damn about the horses then, and run them down and trade for better ones. We, now really develop afriendship with our horses, even if it is a"love-hate" relationship, but I know that animals were treated badly, to our standards even 50 years ago. So what did the native americans use for triming their hores hooves, and what did the trappers do, and what was the pracice near the forts and posts? Thanks for your consideration of these topics and sorry this was so long. Did you all see the news clips of the little Afgan horses carrying the Northern Alliance Cav, I bet those are tough little ponies. Dave Albaugh 1736 AUX ALIMENTS DU PAYS _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "pat broehl" <patbroehl@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? Date: 20 Oct 2001 10:59:01 -0700 David, Greetings. I also have watched with interest concerning hoof care circa RMFT and have noticed no mention of any such. Only quite often it is metioned the need to lay up for a spell on account of the stock being in poor condition. Sometimes due to lack of good feed but I suspect poor hoof conditions also. I have not noticed any mention of working on their feet, only waiting for them to recoupe, or trading for vigorous stock. Also I've not noticed hoof care tools being part of a trapper's list. Also no mention of any intentional trip to the Smithie. Would enjoy any education or information concerning such. Itsaquain >From: "DAVID ALBAUGH" <wolftracker55@hotmail.com> > > >Ahoy the list, I've been following the horsemanship postings. , "a horse >with no feet is no horse at all>also believe that the RMFT horse were >probably nearly 100% unshod. I have >seen native american bone hoof picks, and the crooked knives that are alot >like hoof knives, and the ground is rocky, but what did the native >americans >and the trappers use to keep their horses hooves in shape? The posts and >forts must have had blacksmiths/ferriers, how common was the practice of >shoeing. I think I would not want my horses shod, if I were going to be on >the ground for 6 mos to a year, what would I carry to use for my horse's >hooves>native americans use for triming their hores hooves, and what did >the >trappers do, and what was the pracice near the forts and posts? Thanks for >your consideration of these topics and sorry this was so long. Did you all >see the news clips of the little Afgan horses carrying the Northern >Alliance >Cav, I bet those are tough little ponies. Dave Albaugh 1736 > >> >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: MtMan-List: off topic Date: 20 Oct 2001 16:32:17 -0500 Some of you know that I live in a small city in Texas and my neighborhood is "diverse".....people from northern European extraction, others are Latino and there is a big house about half a block away that is populated by some sort of loud religious group. Gotta band. Used to call such folks "holy rollers". That said....about 20 minutes ago, on a bright, warm Saturday afternoon there came down North Robinson street in Cleburne, Texas a parade paced by two hooting police cars followed by maybe 150 people, mostly Mexicans. Two teenagers were out front of the others. One was carrying an American flag and another was carrying what is commonly called the Christian flag.....if you ever went to Vacation Bible School you know the flag....and following behind them were two more teenagers carrying a whopping American flag. Following them were dozens of kids from about 8 to about 15, many of whom were blowing police whistles (?). Then came a truck pulling a large trailer that had a band on it, compete with a girl singer, and they were playing patriotic and what I assumed were religious music. In Spanish. Loud. There were young adults carrying donation containers for the American Red Cross. I put in all my pocket change. Then came maybe 75-100 others folks, striding down the street. Looked like Americans to me. Damned if my big, hairy legged mountain man ass just stood there on my porch and teared up. I am proud of every one of those young folks. I would wager that none of them sass their parents, talk back to their teachers or steal to get dope. I hope your town has some kids just like them. I am sure proud of this bunch. God bless all of them and God bless America. I'm off my stump now. Carry on. Lanney Ratcliff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Funk" <j2hearts@shasta.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic Date: 20 Oct 2001 16:41:58 -0700 Lanney, Hooooo Rahhhh! JF ----- Original Message ----- <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>; "scalpdance" <scalpdance@egroups.com> Cc: "Mary Tallent" <mrtallent@mindspring.com> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 2:32 PM > Some of you know that I live in a small city in Texas and my neighborhood is > "diverse".....people from northern European extraction, others are Latino > and there is a big house about half a block away that is populated by some > sort of loud religious group. Gotta band. Used to call such folks "holy > rollers". > That said....about 20 minutes ago, on a bright, warm Saturday afternoon > there came down North Robinson street in Cleburne, Texas a parade paced by > two hooting police cars followed by maybe 150 people, mostly Mexicans. Two > teenagers were out front of the others. One was carrying an American flag > and another was carrying what is commonly called the Christian flag.....if > you ever went to Vacation Bible School you know the flag....and following > behind them were two more teenagers carrying a whopping American flag. > Following them were dozens of kids from about 8 to about 15, many of whom > were blowing police whistles (?). Then came a truck pulling a large trailer > that had a band on it, compete with a girl singer, and they were playing > patriotic and what I assumed were religious music. In Spanish. Loud. There > were young adults carrying donation containers for the American Red Cross. > I put in all my pocket change. Then came maybe 75-100 others folks, > striding down the street. Looked like Americans to me. Damned if my big, > hairy legged mountain man ass just stood there on my porch and teared up. I > am proud of every one of those young folks. I would wager that none of them > sass their parents, talk back to their teachers or steal to get dope. I > hope your town has some kids just like them. I am sure proud of this bunch. > God bless all of them and God bless America. > I'm off my stump now. Carry on. > Lanney Ratcliff > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic Date: 21 Oct 2001 02:12:10 EDT Well, said, Lanney. Well said. Sleeps Loudly Boise, ID ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hikingonthru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: Somewhat OT: Creating Native Persona Date: 21 Oct 2001 07:52:56 -0400 Ho Camp, I know some of us are really into fur trade - RMFT and earlier - and have pretty well established personas and outfits. I am getting interested in developing a native american persona...one of a late 18th/early 19th century eastern native whose tribe got involved in the fur trade (as you can tell it is still in the planning stages). I am having a pretty difficult time finding resources on the dress, esp. hairstyles and headgear, but pretty much all data in general. I do not want this to be a generic persona. I am looking for resources that will allow me to paint a picture in my mind of what the tribes (Iriquois Confed. & Cherokee) were going through culturally and politically from F&I through RMFT so I can really develop a good persona...a person that can say what his background was and how he got to where he is "today". If any of you are have this info., do native personas of any time period, or have data-links please respond to me offlist!!! Thanks in advance! -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? Date: 21 Oct 2001 14:26:51 EDT --part1_c4.1c7edb41.29046d6b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello in the camp David your right the stock of RMFT were hard footed critters. I have been working with Spanish Barbs. The type of horse used during the fur trade and the ones I've been working with have some of the best feet I've seen on a horse. Hard as hell and seem stay in good shape for the most part. So long as they are kept in a large enough area that they can move around and kept on dry ground. Their feet stay in good shape. The one horse that had here for year half never did needed to be trimmed. In fact the one time I did have shoes put on him the shoer only ran his rasp across the bottom of his hoof a couple of times to set the shoe and that was all that was needed. Out of the two two year old marries I have here now only one of them has ever been trimmed and that was because it was kept in a small muddy corral for one winter and the hooves did not have a chance to ware down. With as much as the horses were used back then I bought that trimming was ever much of a concern. Hooves being wore down to the quick was more of a concern. But as hard as their hooves are they would go a lot farther then any of our modern over breed horses of today before this would be a problem, I have read of raw hide boots being used when the feet became tender. on the trail Crazy Cyot --part1_c4.1c7edb41.29046d6b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>Hello in the camp David your right the stock of RMFT were hard footed critters. I have been working with Spanish Barbs. The type of horse used during the fur trade and the ones I've been working with have some of the best feet I've seen on a horse. Hard as hell and seem stay in good shape for the most part. So long as they are kept in a large enough area that they can move around and kept on dry ground. Their feet stay in good shape. The one horse that had here for year half never did needed to be trimmed. In fact the one time I did have shoes put on him the shoer only ran his rasp across the bottom of his hoof a couple of times to set the shoe and that was all that was needed. Out of the two two year old marries I have here now only one of them has ever been trimmed and that was because it was kept in a small muddy corral for one winter and the hooves did not have a chance to ware down. With as much as the horses were used back then I bought that trimming was ever much of a concern. Hooves being wore down to the quick was more of a concern. But as hard as their hooves are they would go a lot farther then any of our modern over breed horses of today before this would be a problem, I have read of raw hide boots being used when the feet became tender. on the trail Crazy Cyot</HTML> --part1_c4.1c7edb41.29046d6b_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <zaz@pop.pacificnet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? Date: 21 Oct 2001 22:44:40 -0700 (PDT) I would agree with Crazy about wild horses and the hardness of their feet. We have a 5 year old mustang and she has about the hardest feet I have ever seen. They are big and strong and can stand up to about anything. We do have her trimmed as she is in a corral and when the ferrier comes out he always remarks how hard her feet are. She is not a Spanish Barb but is supposed to have come from the Arizona/Nevada area. She is not real big at 14.2 but is really stocky and very sturdy. She is like the original 4 wheel drive vehicle and I could see a horse like her being used during the fur trade. I would also agree that most modern horses would not be able to last during the fur trade, with a few exceptions. Our other 2 horses are quarterhorses; they are about as different as could be imagined. Both are 20 year old geldings but one is very strong and can easily keep up with the mustang. He is my horse and no one else rides him. He is the exception because he has feet as strong as the mustang's but bigger and he is also barefoot. He is much bigger size wise than her at 15.3 and has a long long back with a well proportioned body. I guess that is because he has some thorobred in him. My wife usually rides the mustang and we can go about everywhere (we ride in some pretty rough and rocky terrain.) The other 20 year old gelding has foot problems and needs to be pampered from time to time. He is a good horse, a typical stocky quarterhorse (and pretty typical of many modern breeds), about 15 hands even but has very small feet. We were told that about 20 years ago some quarterhorses were bred that way for show purposes. I know he would not do well because if he throws a shoe he can hardly walk. Also if he is not shod and trimmed at least every 6-8 weeks, he trips a lot. He is probably pretty representative of most modern horses and how their feet are. Just my observations of some modern horses. Best Regards, Jerry Zaslow (#1488) ________________________________________________________________________________ At 02:26 PM 10/21/2001 EDT, you wrote: >Hello in the camp >David your right the stock of RMFT were hard footed critters. I have been >working with >Spanish Barbs. The type of horse used during the fur trade and the ones I've >been working with have some of the best feet I've seen on a horse. Hard as >hell and seem stay in good shape for the most part. So long as they are kept >in a large enough area that they can move around and kept on dry ground. >Their feet stay in good shape. The one horse that had here for year half >never did needed to be trimmed. In fact the one time I did have shoes put on >him the shoer only ran his rasp across the bottom of his hoof a couple of >times to set the shoe and that was all that was needed. Out of the two two >year old marries I have here now only one of them has ever been trimmed and >that was because it was kept in a small muddy corral for one winter and the >hooves did not have a chance to ware down. >With as much as the horses were used back then I bought that trimming was >ever much of a concern. Hooves being wore down to the quick was more of a >concern. But as hard as their hooves are they would go a lot farther then any >of our modern over breed horses of today before this would be a problem, I >have read of raw hide boots being used when the feet became tender. >on the trail >Crazy Cyot ><HTML>Hello in the camp > David your right the stock of RMFT were hard footed critters. I have been working with > Spanish Barbs. The type of horse used during the fur trade and the ones I've been working with have some of the best feet I've seen on a horse. Hard as hell and seem stay in good shape for the most part. So long as they are kept in a large enough area that they can move around and kept on dry ground. Their feet stay in good shape. The one horse that had here for year half never did needed to be trimmed. In fact the one time I did have shoes put on him the shoer only ran his rasp across the bottom of his hoof a couple of times to set the shoe and that was all that was needed. Out of the two two year old marries I have here now only one of them has ever been trimmed and that was because it was kept in a small muddy corral for one winter and the hooves did not have a chance to ware down. > With as much as the horses were used back then I bought that trimming was ever much of a concern. Hooves being wore down to the quick was more of a concern. But as hard as their hooves are they would go a lot farther then any of our modern over breed horses of today before this would be a problem, I have read of raw hide boots being used when the feet became tender. > on the trail > Crazy Cyot</HTML> > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? Date: 22 Oct 2001 07:20:45 -0700 > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3086580045_38502_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is this the famous Crazy Cyote? Good to hear from you. Ole # 718 ---------- Hello in the camp David your right the stock of RMFT were hard footed critters. I have been working with Spanish Barbs. The type of horse used during the fur trade and the ones I've been working with have some of the best feet I've seen on a horse. Hard as hell and seem stay in good shape for the most part. So long as they are kept in a large enough area that they can move around and kept on dry ground. Their feet stay in good shape. The one horse that had here for year half never did needed to be trimmed. In fact the one time I did have shoes put on him the shoer only ran his rasp across the bottom of his hoof a couple of times to set the shoe and that was all that was needed. Out of the two two year old marries I have here now only one of them has ever been trimmed and that was because it was kept in a small muddy corral for one winter and the hooves did not have a chance to ware down. With as much as the horses were used back then I bought that trimming was ever much of a concern. Hooves being wore down to the quick was more of a concern. But as hard as their hooves are they would go a lot farther then any of our modern over breed horses of today before this would be a problem, I have read of raw hide boots being used when the feet became tender. on the trail Crazy Cyot --MS_Mac_OE_3086580045_38502_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care?</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF"> Is this the famous Crazy Cyote? Good to hear from you. Ole # 718 ---------- <BLOCKQUOTE>Hello in the camp David your right the stock of RMFT were hard footed critters. I have been w= orking with Spanish Barbs. The type of horse used during the fur trade and the ones I'v= e been working with have some of the best feet I've seen on a horse. Hard as= hell and seem stay in good shape for the most part. So long as they are kep= t in a large enough area that they can move around and kept on dry ground. T= heir feet stay in good shape. The one horse that had here for year half neve= r did needed to be trimmed. In fact the one time I did have shoes put on him= the shoer only ran his rasp across the bottom of his hoof a couple of times= to set the shoe and that was all that was needed. Out of the two two year o= ld marries I have here now only one of them has ever been trimmed and that w= as because it was kept in a small muddy corral for one winter and the hooves= did not have a chance to ware down. With as much as the horses were used back then I bought that trimming was e= ver much of a concern. Hooves being wore down to the quick was more of a con= cern. But as hard as their hooves are they would go a lot farther then any o= f our modern over breed horses of today before this would be a problem, I ha= ve read of raw hide boots being used when the feet became tender. on the trail Crazy Cyot </BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML> --MS_Mac_OE_3086580045_38502_MIME_Part-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Somewhat OT: Creating Native Persona Date: 22 Oct 2001 11:44:00 EDT --part1_14c.2d264ed.290598c0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/21/01 7:55:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hikingonthru@cs.com writes: > I am looking for resources that will allow me to paint a picture in my mind > of what the tribes (Iriquois Confed. & Cherokee) were going through > culturally and politically from F&I through RMFT so I can really develop a > good persona...a person that can say what his background was and how he got > to where he is "today". > Kurt, Where do you live? If you are NE you can meet a lot of Native American reinactors and Native American Personna Reinactors at the major French and Indian events like Ft. Frederick, Md., Ft. Ticondaroga, NY and Ft. Niagara, NY. Or at at Rev War events like Ft. Klock, NY (www.fortklock.com) look under Photos, Interupted harvest and you will see some of them. I would also go on line to the Smithsonian Native American Museum and its collection. There is also a Woodland Conferderacy group that promotes the Native Personna protrayal. I can't put my hands on the web sight at the moment but if I pull it up I will pass on the info. Hope this helps a little, Y.M.O.S. C.T.Oakes --part1_14c.2d264ed.290598c0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>In a message dated 10/21/01 7:55:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hikingonthru@cs.com writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I am looking for resources that will allow me to paint a picture in my mind of what the tribes (Iriquois Confed. & Cherokee) were going through culturally and politically from F&I through RMFT so I can really develop a good persona...a person that can say what his background was and how he got to where he is "today". </BLOCKQUOTE> Kurt, Where do you live? If you are NE you can meet a lot of Native American reinactors and Native American Personna Reinactors at the major French and Indian events like Ft. Frederick, Md., Ft. Ticondaroga, NY and Ft. Niagara, NY. Or at at Rev War events like Ft. Klock, NY (www.fortklock.com) look under Photos, Interupted harvest and you will see some of them. I would also go on line to the Smithsonian Native American Museum and its collection. There is also a Woodland Conferderacy group that promotes the Native Personna protrayal. I can't put my hands on the web sight at the moment but if I pull it up I will pass on the info. Hope this helps a little, Y.M.O.S. C.T.Oakes</HTML> --part1_14c.2d264ed.290598c0_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? Date: 22 Oct 2001 13:22:10 EDT --part1_10e.6f1fe1e.2905afc2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought some of you might like to read more about the Spanish Barb Mustangs. Take a look at: <A HREF="http://websearch.cs.com/cs/results/cssearch-frameset.adp?hit_url=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2esulphurs%2ecom&id=457651&first=1&last=6&sTerm=Spanish%20Barb&brand=CSI&tabs=Y&serviceType=CServe&uType=5049181&type=T&title=Sulphur%20Horse%20Registry">www.sulphurs.com</A> If ya go to Gallery Coco is one of the horses I'm braking now. Yes, Ole it's me "I'm Back." See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot Ps: if the hyperlink doesn't work go to: http://websearch.cs.com/cs/results/cssearch-frameset.adp?hit_url=http%3a%2f%2f www%2esulphurs%2ecom&id=457651&first=1&last=6&sTerm=Spanish%20Barb&brand=CSI& tabs=Y&serviceType=CServe&uType=5049181&type=T& title=Sulphur%20Horse%20Registry --part1_10e.6f1fe1e.2905afc2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>I thought some of you might like to read more about the Spanish Barb Mustangs. Take a look at: <A HREF="http://websearch.cs.com/cs/results/cssearch-frameset.adp?hit_url=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2esulphurs%2ecom&id=457651&first=1&last=6&sTerm=Spanish%20Barb&brand=CSI&tabs=Y&serviceType=CServe&uType=5049181&type=T&title=Sulphur%20Horse%20Registry">www.sulphurs.com</A> If ya go to Gallery Coco is one of the horses I'm braking now. Yes, Ole it's me "I'm Back." See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot Ps: if the hyperlink doesn't work go to: http://websearch.cs.com/cs/results/cssearch-frameset.adp?hit_url=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2esulphurs%2ecom&id=457651&first=1&last=6&sTerm=Spanish%20Barb&brand=CSI&tabs=Y&serviceType=CServe&uType=5049181&type=T&title=Sulphur%20Horse%20Registry</HTML> --part1_10e.6f1fe1e.2905afc2_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Crazy's Barb Date: 23 Oct 2001 00:08:05 EDT --part1_4f.131df8c4.29064725_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Crazy By the picture you must be on the ground. I don't thing that is what they mean by spending some time on the ground. Mark "Roadkill" Loader --part1_4f.131df8c4.29064725_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>Crazy By the picture you must be on the ground. I don't thing that is what they mean by spending some time on the ground. Mark "Roadkill" Loader</HTML> --part1_4f.131df8c4.29064725_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe <gnoe39@yahoo.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis and Clark - (Port Fire Match ???} Date: 23 Oct 2001 11:59:26 -0700 (PDT) While reading Journals of Lewis and Clark, edited by John Bakeless, I find refference by Clark, of having a small piece of port fire match. Anyone have any idea how they were made ?(composition/ recipie) (Footnote said; "Port fire match was a paper case, filled with a slow-burning composition, used by artillery of that day. What Clark was doing with it is not clear. It may have been useful in kindling sulky campfires") As it has been my "job" of demo-ing fire starting for our living historys, thought it might be nice to have one "like"it for show. ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis and Clark - (Port Fire Match ???} Date: 23 Oct 2001 16:43:20 EDT --part1_27.1cec61e8.29073068_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George port-fire According to Noah Webster 1828 dictionary A composition for setting fire to powder, &.c, frequently used in preference to a match. It is wet or dry. The wet is composed of saltpeter, four parts, of sulfur one, and a mealed powder four; mixed and sifted, moistened with a little linseed oil, and well rubbed. The dry is composed of saltpeter, four parts, sulphur one, mealed powder two and antimony one. These compositions are driven into small paper for use. Keep you powder dry Mark " Roadkill" Loader --part1_27.1cec61e8.29073068_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>George port-fire According to Noah Webster 1828 dictionary A composition for setting fire to powder, &.c, frequently used in preference to a match. It is wet or dry. The wet is composed of saltpeter, four parts, of sulfur one, and a mealed powder four; mixed and sifted, moistened with a little linseed oil, and well rubbed. The dry is composed of saltpeter, four parts, sulphur one, mealed powder two and antimony one. These compositions are driven into small paper for use. Keep you powder dry Mark " Roadkill" Loader </HTML> --part1_27.1cec61e8.29073068_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Klesinger" <bill@klesinger.com> Subject: MtMan-List: A computer at a Rendezvous ! Date: 23 Oct 2001 15:50:24 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C15BDA.6DD4B820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For all you Mtn. Geeks it should now be ok to take your computer to a rendezvous. As the first computer was invented, patented and used in 1839. No it was not a product of Great great great Bill Gates, but was created by Charles Babbage ( The Babbage Analytical Engine) later designs where able to do very complex problem solving. It took more that a century for other computer technologies to catch up. A hi tech geek in buckskin I never have seen !!!! WAGH !!! Bill Klesinger, CCNA, MCSE, MCT ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C15BDA.6DD4B820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>For = all you Mtn.=20 Geeks it should now be ok to take your computer to a rendezvous. = As the=20 first computer was invented, patented and used in 1839. No it was not a = product=20 of Great great great Bill Gates, but was created by Charles Babbage ( = The=20 Babbage Analytical Engine) later designs where able to do very complex = problem=20 solving. It took more that a century for other computer technologies to = catch=20 up. </DIV> <DIV><SPAN=20 class=3D591463821-23102001> </DIV> <DIV>A hi = tech geek in=20 buckskin I never have seen !!!! WAGH !!!</DIV> Bill Klesinger, CCNA, MCSE, MCT <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C15BDA.6DD4B820-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Excursion Date: 23 Oct 2001 17:08:39 -0600 After Allen Hall mentioned on this list that he was considering an excursion to trap, I wrote him an Email informing him I had a horse saddled and ready ifÆen I was invited. This last weekend he took me at my word and told me to meet him, Ken Stanley, and Co up northwest a fair piece from Little Lake. I will spare you all the boring details but I thought that I could pass on a couple valuable lessons that I learned while there. Lesson 1: A highline is a very effective tool to improve your dismount off a bucking mule. Not only do you get that initial impact including rope burns and at no extra charge, but the elasticity of the rope will improve momentum to aid in creating a truly memorable landing. As an added bonus, if it is properly placed the trenching effect of where your head makes contact with the earth can be put to beneficial use. Lesson 2: When you are trying to ôdemonstrate ability to properly pack a horse. . . . for distance travel under possible adverse conditionsö and while trailing only about a mile various loads seem to be falling off with embarrassing frequency, try these excuses: A: Its not my fault that gravity sucks or that the trees around here are placed entirely to close together. B: The ôdistanceö part of the requirement, you know, that is a relative thing. C: Well hell, it wasnÆt my bedroll. Lesson 3: When having this much fun in the wilds always do so in the very best of company. (See Allen I got at least one thing right last weekend!) Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathan Offutt <srf90@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis and Clark - (Port Fire Match ???} Date: 23 Oct 2001 16:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Should be a pretty simple beginning pyrotechnic project. Basicly, it is a very slow burning black powder type mix. You could easily leave out the antimony (trisulphide) in the dry version, adding a bit extra sulfur. You would probably have to order it from a hobbiest pyrotechnic supplier, such as Skylighter. The other chemicals are readily available. All formulas are of course by weight, so you need some sort of scale. also, since the goal is not to produce a particularly fast burning comp. substitute the equivalent amounts of sulfur, potassium nitrate and charcoal for the meal powder. Roll a case out of paper about 3/8-1/2 i.d. and perhaps 8"-12" long. Grocery bags would be good. smear thined out wood glue or paste on the last inch of the paper as you roll it around the former of your choice. As for how many turns of paper, I don't know. You will have to experiment to find what works best. Basicly, you want as little paper as possible so that it burns away as the the torch burns down. When they are dry, set a case on end on a hard surface and pour a little sawdust in. Using a dowel and a non-sparking hammer, consolidate the sawdust so it forms a hard plug. Repeat this process until you have a column as long as you want for a handle. Then you charge it with the composition in the same way until it is full. The composition should have as small a particle size as is possible and should be as well mixed as possible. As a starting point, you might try 55 parts KNO3, 15 parts S, and 3 parts charcoal. I haven't tried it so I don't know exactly what would be the ideal proportions. Adjust the proportions to change the burn rate. Idealy, it should burn relativly slowly and produce a lot of dross. Since the formula is over oxidized, adding more KNO3 will probably slow it down with the side benifit of producing more molten dross just waiting to drip on somthing flamable and set it on fire. Finally, In most areas, it is not exactly legal to make fireworks of any type without proper lisencing, so be careful. Good luck. Nathan --- MarkLoader@aol.com wrote: > George > port-fire According to Noah Webster 1828 dictionary > A composition for setting fire to powder, &.c, > frequently used in preference > to a match. It is wet or dry. The wet is composed of > saltpeter, four parts, > of sulfur one, and a mealed powder four; mixed and > sifted, moistened with a > little linseed oil, and well rubbed. The dry is > composed of saltpeter, four > parts, sulphur one, mealed powder two and antimony > one. These compositions > are driven into small paper for use. > Keep you powder dry > Mark " Roadkill" Loader > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: MtMan-List: RE: AMM-List: A computer at a Rendezvous ! Date: 23 Oct 2001 17:28:32 -0700 Mr Babbage's Engine, being large brass frameworks comprising many very precise gears and cams (kind of the father of the mechanical adding machine, but also capable of differential analysis, ie, calculus), was never successfully built in his day, and would be a teensy bit impractical to transport to the mountains. There was however an amusing speculative novel called, I believe, The Difference Engine, which imagined what would have happened had the British Government thrown serious support into his scheme, and started a steam-powered Computer Age in 1850 instead of 1950...Students of history will recall that they had mechanized Jaquard looms, using punched cards much like the familiar Hollerith cards developed later, so they had a "memory" system. Their display technology used a grid of small tiles that were flipped under the machine's control (like placing stitches by the automated loom), producing a picture not unlike today's computer display on a courser scale. Because of the distinctive sound this device made during updates, those who became obsessed with writing better programs for the Engine became known as "clackers"...the French, of course, not to be outdone, built their own version, called the "Napoleon", which was somewhat more powerful, but less stable. And so forth, a good story for those interested in our historical time period. Sorry for the off-topic rambling but it has been rather quiet... Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 2:50 PM Cc: David G; David; Big Bill; Jerry Lundquist For all you Mtn. Geeks it should now be ok to take your computer to a rendezvous. As the first computer was invented, patented and used in 1839. No it was not a product of Great great great Bill Gates, but was created by Charles Babbage ( The Babbage Analytical Engine) later designs where able to do very complex problem solving. It took more that a century for other computer technologies to catch up. A hi tech geek in buckskin I never have seen !!!! WAGH !!! Bill Klesinger, CCNA, MCSE, MCT ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Horseflesh & Excursions Date: 23 Oct 2001 17:44:17 -0500 <html><head></head><body>Hallo Wynn Got a chuckle out of your weekend reminiscence..... particularly the bit on the highline. Spent my weekend in much the same manner with my small herd and the company of Vern Illi of the Wilson Price Hunt party. I didn't get launched onto/into a highline, but it did get dicey a couple of times. I had never taken my pasture born and bred mare across running water..... It's truly an inspiring sight watching a 1000 pounds of horseflesh attempt to launch herself into orbit fully packed with gear and a wooden five gallon water keg. She did clear the rivulet, but the landing weren't so good. She came down square on her right side, the side with the water keg lashed to it, and attempted a couple of breakdance moves that would've won her a trophy in any dance contest. According to my partner, I passed the packing test when everything was still there after she regained all four feet. The really amazing part is that the keg survived, although I think the dirt smear is now a permanent part of that keg. By the end of the weekend, she was doing Ok with the running water demon. She still rushes across, but no more space launches. She's gonna be a solid trooper. The gunshy gelding did Ok too, by the end of the trip, he was barely noticing the gunfire... The colt could have cared less... he was too busy romping and being a nuisance to worry about anything. On another note... what do folks do with the flinter when your handling reins, and packhorse leadrope. I tried tying it muzzledown on the left side of the pommel. That worked Ok, but maybe there's something better? I thought of putting it over my back on a sling, but the thought of being stripped off betwixt two pine trees while suspended by a rifle didn't appeal to me. Regards from the hills of Idaho Lee Newbill <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3BD5F876.84400293@sourceoneinternet.com"></blockquote> </body></html> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis and Clark - (Port Fire Match ???} Date: 23 Oct 2001 19:45:44 -0500 .......Should be a pretty simple beginning pyrotechnic project. Maybe, but this statement falls in the same category as a famous Texas expression........"Hey, ya'll, watch this!!" Remember, the main difference between most of us (including me) and Boy Scouts is that we lack responsible adult supervision. Remind me to show you the 7 stitch scar I acquired in a college chemistry lab incident. Lanney Ratcliff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men Hoof care? Date: 23 Oct 2001 19:31:16 -0600 Good to hear you are back on the list Cyote. Of course, the fact that mules were used as extensively as they were was not for the love of big ears or their lovely personalities. They might have had other attributes but those feet had to pretty high on the list. I to have read many of the first hand accounts for meantion of the way horses were handled, shoeing amoung other things and have found all to little direct information. The Indians had designations ie buffalo horse, war horse etc to keep them in as good a shape as possible and when possible the RMFT probably did the same. I just donÆt think it was possible very much. But this much I will surmis they took pretty good care of what they had. DonÆt take it that I believe they treated them like a loving pet, but if you use horses long you real quick figure out that if you give hard you get hard and when their life depended on it I bet they did their best. Dorian would not let the Hunt party eat his horse, would rather starve. Col Stansbury claims that the old mountaineers with him scoffed at the poor packing skills of the settlers they passed he called the mountainers expert packers or some such. I believe a horse that has not been shod will do better than one that wears shoes regularly and is now going without. It still seems like hoof problems would have been a constant problem. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Horseflesh & Excursions Date: 23 Oct 2001 20:38:35 -0700 The original mountaineers probably kept their gun in one hand, or across their lap, or perhaps thru a loop like you did, much as we think nothing of driving while opening a hamburger or making a phone call...With my less-than-expert riding skills, I wore my gun across my back in its case, and made very sure I straightened it out under one armpit while passing thru woods. The biggest objection historically would be its total unreadiness for use. Another suggestion is to make a quiver for your gun - I gather, like a long holster slung across the back, that you can reach back and pull the gun out of on demand. Same precautions when passing through brush I assume. Something I've always wondered about -- did the original mountaineers worry less about keeping their horses on leads, hobbles and the like? I gather from some references that they were herded by a watchman, entrusted to stay near a "bell mare", or sometimes, penned up in natural formations. Of course, in those days, you didn't have your horse thinking about the trailer or stall only a couple of day's ride away -- they probably herded up more on the rider or party than we can rely on for our short rides. Anyone more expert care to comment? Best regards Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 3:44 PM Hallo Wynn Got a chuckle out of your weekend reminiscence..... particularly the bit on the highline. Spent my weekend in much the same manner with my small herd and the company of Vern Illi of the Wilson Price Hunt party. I didn't get launched onto/into a highline, but it did get dicey a couple of times. I had never taken my pasture born and bred mare across running water..... It's truly an inspiring sight watching a 1000 pounds of horseflesh attempt to launch herself into orbit fully packed with gear and a wooden five gallon water keg. She did clear the rivulet, but the landing weren't so good. She came down square on her right side, the side with the water keg lashed to it, and attempted a couple of breakdance moves that would've won her a trophy in any dance contest. According to my partner, I passed the packing test when everything was still there after she regained all four feet. The really amazing part is that the keg survived, although I think the dirt smear is now a permanent part of that keg. By the end of the weekend, she was doing Ok with the running water demon. She still rushes across, but no more space launches. She's gonna be a solid trooper. The gunshy gelding did Ok too, by the end of the trip, he was barely noticing the gunfire... The colt could have cared less... he was too busy romping and being a nuisance to worry about anything. On another note... what do folks do with the flinter when your handling reins, and packhorse leadrope. I tried tying it muzzledown on the left side of the pommel. That worked Ok, but maybe there's something better? I thought of putting it over my back on a sling, but the thought of being stripped off betwixt two pine trees while suspended by a rifle didn't appeal to me. Regards from the hills of Idaho Lee Newbill ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow <zaz@pop.pacificnet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horseflesh & Excursions Date: 23 Oct 2001 21:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Lee, Sounded like you had a good trip. Glad to hear your gelding did well with the shooting. He sounds like he is going to do fine. Also, been there with the launching across water stuff about 5 years ago with my gelding. He had to jump a 3 inch stream back then and now will go across rivers. Isn't it fun to have a horse that does team penning and reining moves in the water? Best Regards, Jerry Zaslow #1488 ________________________________________________________________________________ At 05:44 PM 10/23/2001 -0500, you wrote: ><html><head></head><body>Hallo Wynn > >Got a chuckle out of your weekend reminiscence..... particularly the bit >on the highline. Spent my weekend in much the same manner with my small >herd and the company of Vern Illi of the Wilson Price Hunt party. > >I didn't get launched onto/into a highline, but it did get dicey a couple >of times. I had never taken my pasture born and bred mare across running >water..... It's truly an inspiring sight watching a 1000 pounds of horseflesh >attempt to launch herself into orbit fully packed with gear and a wooden >five gallon water keg. She did clear the rivulet, but the landing weren't >so good. She came down square on her right side, the side with the water >keg lashed to it, and attempted a couple of breakdance moves that would've >won her a trophy in any dance contest. According to my partner, I passed >the packing test when everything was still there after she regained all four >feet. The really amazing part is that the keg survived, although I think >the dirt smear is now a permanent part of that keg. > >By the end of the weekend, she was doing Ok with the running water demon. >She still rushes across, but no more space launches. She's gonna be a solid >trooper. The gunshy gelding did Ok too, by the end of the trip, he was barely >noticing the gunfire... The colt could have cared less... he was too busy >romping and being a nuisance to worry about anything. > >On another note... what do folks do with the flinter when your handling reins, >and packhorse leadrope. I tried tying it muzzledown on the left side of >the pommel. That worked Ok, but maybe there's something better? I thought >of putting it over my back on a sling, but the thought of being stripped >off betwixt two pine trees while suspended by a rifle didn't appeal to me. > >Regards from the hills of Idaho > >Lee Newbill ><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3BD5F876.84400293@sourceoneinternet.com"></blockquote> ></body></html> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Crazy's Barb Date: 24 Oct 2001 13:55:19 EDT --part1_168.2d7b3ab.29085a87_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To tell the truth Mark I haven't got on her back yet. I'm still doing the ground work the more time you spend on the ground work the less chance for you to wind up on the ground your self. If ya know what I mean? See on the ground Crazy Cyot --part1_168.2d7b3ab.29085a87_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>To tell the truth Mark I haven't got on her back yet. I'm still doing the ground work the more time you spend on the ground work the less chance for you to wind up on the ground your self. If ya know what I mean? See on the ground Crazy Cyot</HTML> --part1_168.2d7b3ab.29085a87_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Excursion Date: 24 Oct 2001 12:11:58 -0600 At 05:08 PM 10/23/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Lesson 3: When having this much fun in the wilds always do so in the >very best of company. >(See Allen I got at least one thing right last weekend!) > >Wynn Ormond Why Wynn, you truly did shine this weekend. You're a fine trapping partner. And heck, it could have been bad ropes on the packing part of the deal................ Allen ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horseflesh & Excursions Date: 24 Oct 2001 14:29:30 EDT --part1_12f.6771ff2.2908628a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wynn sorry I miss the camp would have loved to see you and your Mule getting a long so well. Lee This what I do when dealing with a pack horse. First off I carry a short barrel Rifle 32". (less to get hung up) I use a sling and wear it on my back and no I haven't been pulled of my horse yet. Be careful and aware of it and no problem. Second if the pack horse is not pulling back much you can take one wrap around the horn with the lead rope and tuck the tail end under your thigh. If the pack horse does pull back all you have to do is let the rope go from under your thigh and there won't be a wreck. This has worked well for me. If ya got a good pack horse that will keep it place in line ya don't need a lead rope let it have it's head. It ain't going to leave the other horses but this should only be done with a horse you can trust and only when the trail is safe to do so. see ya on the trail Crazy Cyot --part1_12f.6771ff2.2908628a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>Wynn sorry I miss the camp would have loved to see you and your Mule getting a long so well. Lee This what I do when dealing with a pack horse. First off I carry a short barrel Rifle 32". (less to get hung up) I use a sling and wear it on my back and no I haven't been pulled of my horse yet. Be careful and aware of it and no problem. Second if the pack horse is not pulling back much you can take one wrap around the horn with the lead rope and tuck the tail end under your thigh. If the pack horse does pull back all you have to do is let the rope go from under your thigh and there won't be a wreck. This has worked well for me. If ya got a good pack horse that will keep it place in line ya don't need a lead rope let it have it's head. It ain't going to leave the other horses but this should only be done with a horse you can trust and only when the trail is safe to do so. see ya on the trail Crazy Cyot</HTML> --part1_12f.6771ff2.2908628a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Gottfred <agottfre@telusplanet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A computer at a Rendezvous ! Date: 24 Oct 2001 21:13:33 -0600 I will get to work on my Lady Ada Lovelace impression immediately! ;-) Your humble computer-obsessed servant, Angela Gottfred ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DAVID ALBAUGH" <wolftracker55@hotmail.com> Subject: MtMan-List: RMFT/NATIVE AMERICAN/HOOF CARE Date: 25 Oct 2001 11:04:04 -0400 THANKS, To all who responded to my question about hoof care. I "blew-out" my biceps, techincally "ruptured my biceps at the insertion". I was unloading some big pine saw logs from the p.u. and well surgery on Fri. I can't even curl my 8cup coffe pot, I had to try, but not as much pain as you would expect, although the initial popping, ripping, and tearing with blinding white light was rather exquisite, then the drive to the hospital-1) I was alone at the time, 2) I never buy trucks with automatics, was creative. We're getting a little snow today in the U.P. of Michigan today, can you tell I'm already bored. I'm going to catch up on my reading. Thanks again, YMHOS Dave, AMM (injured reserve)1736 AUX ALIMENTS DU PAYS _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: FW: [discoveryexpedition] A light has gone out Date: 26 Oct 2001 06:28:31 EDT --part1_54.1cf47c05.290a94cf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com --part1_54.1cf47c05.290a94cf_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <dhommes@yhti.net> Received: from rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v81.9) with ESMTP id MAILINYC43-1025172754; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:27:54 -0400 Received: from mail.yhti.net (ppp086018.yhti.net [207.41.86.18]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v81.9) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC25-1025172737; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:27:37 -0400 Received: from [204.214.12.17] (ppp012017.yhti.net [204.214.12.17]) by mail.yhti.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA25228; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:20:41 -0500 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Rick Petzdolt <traphand@aol.com> Message-ID: <B7FDECAC.28D%dhommes@yhti.net> In-Reply-To: <89.de5d45d.2908e8aa@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ---------- Reply-To: discoveryexpedition@yahoogroups.com Dear friends, This night at about 10pm, our founder Mr. Glennon Bishop passed on to his God. Glenn was an inspiration to all of us. He shared his dream and his vision, and in doing so, gave light, energy, and excitement to many of us who traveled on the rivers in the name of Lewis and Clark. Glenn's dedication to his dream, and his ability to be willing to share his dream with all of us made him unique among men. We have all lost a friend and a guide who showed us how men should live. He was a peaceful and friendly man, who genuinely liked people. He will be missed. I do not have any information regarding funeral arrangements, but will let you all know as soon as I know. Glenn will not be with us as we fulfill his dream, but I am sure, he will be completing the voyage with us. Peter Geery Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --part1_54.1cf47c05.290a94cf_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gretchen Ormond" <leona3@sourceoneinternet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Horseflesh & Excursions Date: 26 Oct 2001 15:55:50 -0600 Mr Newbill wrote: On another note... what do folks do with the flinter when your handling reins, and packhorse leadrope. I tried tying it muzzle down on the left side of the pommel. That worked Ok, but maybe there's something better? Mr Hanson shows a leather holder that hooks to the saddle horn and holds the rifle perpendicular across the saddle. I made one and it worked alright but even though you can turn it quite a ways I still worried about getting sideways between trees. Also I still had to babysit it. Next, Miller shows a horseman crossing a bog by holding his rifle cradled against his chest. This worked real well when things are exciting but it still leaves you one handed. Some of the guys I have ridden with just deal with it and let it set across their laps when traveling. There is a couple pictures in Kurtz stuff with rifles in ôclothö scabbards including one that shows a sling that circles around both shoulders, rifle in rear, hanging cross ways about shoulder blade height. I have stared and stared at that pic trying to figure out how that guy keeps that thing from becoming a death trap. If it slide down it would pin both arms to your side. One of Millers pictures shows two trappers making serious time (Blackfeet I think) and one of them is carrying his rifle barrel down on a sling over his shoulder. On a ride with Rick Palmer he warned me that putting the sling crosswise over the shoulders can be dangerous because he knew of someone that others here on the list may be able to name who was thrown and landed flat on his back breaking the stock when he landed on it. Not to mention what it did to his back. So I tried hauling mine just hanging down from the left shoulder, but it still caused plenty of problems requiring babysitting and beating the hell out of me at a gallop. So when I expect to have my hands fullûpack horse/s, young mount, rough terrain, speedû I have gone back to hanging the smoke pole across my shoulders with the barrel generally down by my left leg. If I tense up jus right it locks it in place and I can go to work without it bothering me to much. I have never tried your idea of tying to the saddle. I would be to worried that unless it was well protected by a heavy scabbard it would take a beating. I have not seen any evidence for heavy scabbards until later time frames but they must have had some way of carrying extra rifles for trade, spares etc. Another idea I have read and seen is using a short saddle gun, generally, smooth bore. The Indians in Catlins painting sawed them off real short. Maybe some day I will spend the money and join them, even if it does seem kinda like cheating. Unless of course you would be willing to carry that gun when hunting big game and/or your life depended on it . That is my two cents. Wynn Ormond ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. Smith" <dlsmith@about.com> Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Native American/ Mt. Men =?iso-8859-1?B?oEg=?= Date: 27 Oct 2001 07:33:50 -0600 <html><head><meta Name='keywords' Content='commtouch, pronto, mail, free email, free, branded, web based, free web based email, communications, internet, software, advertising banners, e-mail, free software'></head><body ><div align='left'><blockquote><blockquote><TT>What Crazy says I have found true, for a dozen years Buck Conner and myself had mustangs (wild ones from the programs the feds run), so like the Spanish Barbs they went back to the early stock that roamed the west. These breeds are unlike the modern breeds as far as hoof makeup according to CSU Vet Clinic folks, like Crazy says hardier, don't split out and on good ground pretty much take care of themselves. We would only trim the fronts in the spring and only then if a hard winter where they where on snow for long periods, mild winters there was no need to touch their feet, this was the same on all 5 animals, yet the 5 quarter horses always needed foot work living in the same conditions. What's interesting too is how stout the mustangs and Spanish Barbs where when compared to their brothers the quarter horse or morgan, which we also had several of. Pound for pound it's hard to find a horse that will perform like a mustang or Spanish Barb, plus they are correct for the RMFT or Native American events. Just my two cents...... Take Care, Concho --------------------- David your right the stock of RMFT were hard footed critters. I have been working with Spanish Barbs. The type of horse used during the fur trade and the ones I've been working with have some of the best feet I've seen on a horse. Hard as hell and seem stay in good shape for the most part. So long as they are kept in a large enough area that they can move around and kept on dry ground. Their feet stay in good shape. The one horse that had here for year half never did needed to be trimmed. In fact the one time I did have shoes put on him the shoer only ran his rasp across the bottom of his hoof a couple of times to set the shoe and that was all that was needed. Out of the two two year old marries I have here now only one of them has ever been trimmed and that was because it was kept in a small muddy corral for one winter and the hooves did not have a chance to ware down. With as much as the horses were used back then I bought that trimming was ever much of a concern. Hooves being wore down to the quick was more of a concern. But as hard as their hooves are they would go a lot farther then any of our modern over breed horses of today before this would be a problem, I have read of raw hide boots being used when the feet became tender. on the trail Crazy Cyot </TT> <TT>Later, Daniel L. "Concho" Smith _____________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT_______HRD__ http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/_________HRD__ _____________________________________________ Words to live by: Sometimes you are sad... And no one sees your tears. Sometimes you are happy... And no one sees your smile. But fart just one time... </TT> <TT>Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com </TT></blockquote></blockquote></div></body></html> ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: M/L show Date: 27 Oct 2001 13:56:31 EDT Does anyone know when the Hillsborough, Oregun, M/L show is gonna be? Seems to me it was in December last year..... Thanks, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "De Santis, Nick" <nick.de.santis@intel.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: M/L show Date: 29 Oct 2001 08:28:45 -0800 Hi Magpie, The show is Dec 1st at the Washington Co Fairgrounds. Here is the URL from the Forest Hills Black Powder Brigade. http://www.geocities.com/fhbpb/events.html The map is a little dated, but it will get you there. Travler -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 10:57 AM Does anyone know when the Hillsborough, Oregun, M/L show is gonna be? Seems to me it was in December last year..... Thanks, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: M/L show Date: 29 Oct 2001 09:14:57 -0800 Magpie, Got this response from John Hansen. Might be fun. Capt. L ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dec 1-2 TRADE SHOW, Hillsboro OR armory Capt. I believe the show is set for the first weekend in December. That is according to the Forest Hills BP Brigade calendar. Hope to make it myself, and look for the others on the list. http://www.geocities.com/fhbpb/cal.html Hope this helps. John -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 9:32 PM Does anyone know when the Hillsborough, Oregon, M/L show is gonna be? Seems to me it was in December last year..... Thanks, Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 9:56 AM > Does anyone know when the Hillsborough, Oregun, M/L show is gonna be? Seems > to me it was in December last year..... > > Thanks, > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "De Santis, Nick" <nick.de.santis@intel.com> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: M/L show Date: 29 Oct 2001 10:24:04 -0800 A little clarification. On the web from the Forest Hills Black Powder Brigade in one spot it says Armory and in another it says Main Exhibit Hall. Not sure which is correct, but the two buildings are about 200 yards from one another in the Wa Co Fair complex, so you will find it either way! Travler -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 9:15 AM Magpie, Got this response from John Hansen. Might be fun. Capt. L ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dec 1-2 TRADE SHOW, Hillsboro OR armory Capt. I believe the show is set for the first weekend in December. That is according to the Forest Hills BP Brigade calendar. Hope to make it myself, and look for the others on the list. http://www.geocities.com/fhbpb/cal.html Hope this helps. John -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 9:32 PM Does anyone know when the Hillsborough, Oregon, M/L show is gonna be? Seems to me it was in December last year..... Thanks, Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 9:56 AM > Does anyone know when the Hillsborough, Oregun, M/L show is gonna be? Seems > to me it was in December last year..... > > Thanks, > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:57:33 -0500 Date: 29 Oct 2001 15:03:12 -0500 Victoria.... whats the status on the BBQ for Laura? I'm about ready to go three just to try the BBQ at this place!! Ad Miller PS: Love the name... thats my wife's name too... Victoria :) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com> Subject: MtMan-List: Laura Date: 29 Oct 2001 19:00:56 -0600 Hi Ad, Glad to have you come on down. You won't regret it. That is if you can handle the vastness of Texas compared to little bitty ole' West Virginia. <G> A re-cap for the list: Many of you all already know Laura Glise, one of our own, was diagnosed last spring with brain cancer. Lanney, Laura's special guardian angel, has been keeping us apprised of her condition with regular updates to the list. For months, I have been trying to come up with a way to do something for Laura. After all, what does one say to or do for someone who has cancer in their brain?? When Lanney wrote to the list Laura was sad because she was unable to come to Texas to eat the most wonderful BBQ in the world, I had the thought that getting to her her favorite BBQ would do her a world of good. Lanney wholeheartedly agreed and offered to drive to Central Texas to pick up the BBQ and have it shipped overnight. This is the last call for those who want to participate in blessing Laura this way while she is battling this horrible condition. I think the fact her MM friends are thinking about her, as well as the good eatin', would be a real treat for Laura and hopefully contribute to her healing--which is the goal. Please contact me off list if you wish to participate. Thanks, Victoria vapate@juno.com On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:03:12 -0500 "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> writes: > Victoria.... whats the status on the BBQ for Laura? I'm about ready > to go > three just to try the BBQ at this place!! > > Ad Miller > > PS: Love the name... thats my wife's name too... Victoria :) > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: M/L show Date: 29 Oct 2001 22:45:35 EST In a message dated 10/29/01 8:36:45 AM, nick.de.santis@intel.com writes: << The show is Dec 1st at the Washington Co Fairgrounds. Here is the URL from the Forest Hills Black Powder Brigade. >> Thanks Travler, I've been to a couple of the shows there at Hillsboro, and while it ain't Enumclaw, it's great little M/L show, and at a good time to be buyin Christmas stuff...for me. Capt, if you boys wanna come over and camp here, like we did for the Gresham show, let me know. I'll try to get that weekend off, but if not, I'll call in sick.....<G> Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laura Date: 29 Oct 2001 23:47:40 -0500 Vicki dear... WV would be BIGGER than Texas if they just flattened it out :) Ad ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" <frankf@cox-internet.com> Subject: MtMan-List: hoof care Date: 30 Oct 2001 07:41:38 -0600 When it comes to equine knowledge, I am about at the level of still trying to figger out which end the red apples go in and which end the brown ones come out. Can't share much knowledge on this subject but can relate a little experience. Several years ago I had a big hankering to get a couple mules. One for riding on our wilderness trails and the other for packing. As I do when embarking on any new project I sought out the knowledge of experience folks. Well, friends, I found a whole lot of 'eeksperts' out there and scads of contradictory information. My conclusion was that no one really knows anything about horses or mules. Reading didn't help much either most books and articles seem to assume that the animal is shod and do not address the subject of unshod horses or mules and none really explain why a horse is shod in the first place. Some folks told me shoeing was not necessary and that a horse if never shod is fine. But if a horse is shod it must be kept shod all its life. The sum total of all this contradictory information discouraged me from buying the mules. I did end up with a burro for packing. He was about seven years old when I bought him and had never been shod. He seemed to fare just fine without iron on his feet. Occasionally when it looked like I might have to trim his hooves they would just shed an outer layer and all would be fine again. If I ever get my mules, I think I will look for unshod ones and just avoid the problems of shoeing, especially since the need or benefits of putting iron on a horse'es feet seem unclear and perhaps unnecessary. (p.s. I just returned from almost two weeks in the woods for our ml deer/bear hunt and am catching up on my e-reading. apologies for the late post on this subject.) Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Ribs for Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 12:43:02 -0500 Ya know guys... I always thought that Mountainmen were close knit... but I guess I was wrong. A while back, Victoria posted re Laura wanting ribs from Texas and thought it would be a nice gesture if we all pitched in and got her some. From what I understand from Victoria, it will cost about $100 to send the ribs to her in the hospital. HERE IS A CHALLENGE!!! Get off yer duffs and commit to $5 and lets get her her ribs!! People, this gal is fighting for her life... can'e we make her a little happy here?? Vicki... Re your email to me... if these guys don't come through, I will... Ad Miller Alderson, WV ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ribs for Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 12:57:13 -0500 OK>>>>how do you want to do the money.....? Set up a paypall, billpay, checks....what ever and I will send $10.00. Linda Holley Addison Miller wrote: > Ya know guys... I always thought that Mountainmen were close knit... but I > guess I was wrong. A while back, Victoria posted re Laura wanting ribs from > Texas and thought it would be a nice gesture if we all pitched in and got > her some. From what I understand from Victoria, it will cost about $100 to > send the ribs to her in the hospital. HERE IS A CHALLENGE!!! Get off yer > duffs and commit to $5 and lets get her her ribs!! People, this gal is > fighting for her life... can'e we make her a little happy here?? > > Vicki... Re your email to me... if these guys don't come through, I will... > > Ad Miller > Alderson, WV > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ribs for Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 13:07:48 EST In a message dated 10/31/01 9:52:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, admiller@citynet.net writes: << Ya know guys... I always thought that Mountainmen were close knit... but I guess I was wrong >> Ya know Ad, you are wrong.... not about Mountainmen, but about your attitude... some of us have sent stuff, including cards, eMails, prayers, books and other gifts.... in some cases with a value far above yer requested 5 bucks. You can count me in for the Ribs, too, but please remember that before you insult/intimidate the members of the List, Ribs ain't the only way...... Barney PS. Nobody has yet suggested how, when or where to send the money! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ribs for Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 12:10:51 -0600 Thanks Linda. For those who want to show support for Laura, send checks to: Victoria Pate 7413 Waterway Dr. Ft. Worth, Texas 76137 Please let me know off list when you are sending the checks. If you want to send a personal note to Laura, I'll include it with the card. Thanks, Victoria On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:57:13 -0500 Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net> writes: > OK>>>>how do you want to do the money.....? > Set up a paypall, billpay, checks....what ever and I will send > $10.00. > > Linda Holley > > Addison Miller wrote: > > > Ya know guys... I always thought that Mountainmen were close > knit... but I > > guess I was wrong. A while back, Victoria posted re Laura wanting > ribs from > > Texas and thought it would be a nice gesture if we all pitched in > and got > > her some. From what I understand from Victoria, it will cost > about $100 to > > send the ribs to her in the hospital. HERE IS A CHALLENGE!!! Get > off yer > > duffs and commit to $5 and lets get her her ribs!! People, this > gal is > > fighting for her life... can'e we make her a little happy here?? > > > > Vicki... Re your email to me... if these guys don't come through, > I will... > > > > Ad Miller > > Alderson, WV > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 14:49:18 EST --part1_cb.186b9066.2911afbe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/29/01 8:03:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, vapate@juno.com writes: > After all, what does one say to > or do for someone who has cancer in their brain?? We just had one of our club members pass away from colon-liver-brain cancer after an 8 year battle. She shoot all the shots and woods walks right up to a month an a half before loosing the good fight. We had everyone that knew her from rendezvous/black powder send friendship cards (somehow get well cards were not right once she stopped further treatment) and with each card was enclosed a friendship bead. Her family was amazed at the string of beads she had by the time she passed away. So thats another way to say we care, although I think your ribs ideas is wonderful. Y.M.O.S. C.T.Oakes --part1_cb.186b9066.2911afbe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>In a message dated 10/29/01 8:03:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, vapate@juno.com writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">After all, what does one say to or do for someone who has cancer in their brain?? </BLOCKQUOTE> We just had one of our club members pass away from colon-liver-brain cancer after an 8 year battle. She shoot all the shots and woods walks right up to a month an a half before loosing the good fight. We had everyone that knew her from rendezvous/black powder send friendship cards (somehow get well cards were not right once she stopped further treatment) and with each card was enclosed a friendship bead. Her family was amazed at the string of beads she had by the time she passed away. So thats another way to say we care, although I think your ribs ideas is wonderful. Y.M.O.S. C.T.Oakes</HTML> --part1_cb.186b9066.2911afbe_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John & Nancy McKee" <stitchin@iowatelecom.net> Subject: MtMan-List: money for Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 18:35:08 -0600 Addison, I have already sent 100.00 to Victoria. Check your facts before you blow up. John ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 11:43 AM > Ya know guys... I always thought that Mountainmen were close knit... but I > guess I was wrong. A while back, Victoria posted re Laura wanting ribs from > Texas and thought it would be a nice gesture if we all pitched in and got > her some. From what I understand from Victoria, it will cost about $100 to > send the ribs to her in the hospital. HERE IS A CHALLENGE!!! Get off yer > duffs and commit to $5 and lets get her her ribs!! People, this gal is > fighting for her life... can'e we make her a little happy here?? > > Vicki... Re your email to me... if these guys don't come through, I will... > > Ad Miller > Alderson, WV > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ribs for Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 18:15:43 -0600 my $20.00 is on the way in the morning mail sending it to the address below ---if that is correct if not please get it to the right place---I would appreciate it---will be cash---that will be all that is in the envelope---give her my best sending to: Victoria (Pate) 7413 Waterway Dr. Ft. Worth, Texas 76137 nuff said--- HAWK--- On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:43:02 -0500 "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> writes: > Ya know guys... I always thought that Mountainmen were close knit... > but I > guess I was wrong. A while back, Victoria posted re Laura wanting > ribs from > Texas and thought it would be a nice gesture if we all pitched in > and got > her some. From what I understand from Victoria, it will cost about > $100 to > send the ribs to her in the hospital. HERE IS A CHALLENGE!!! Get > off yer > duffs and commit to $5 and lets get her her ribs!! People, this gal > is > fighting for her life... can'e we make her a little happy here?? > > Vicki... Re your email to me... if these guys don't come through, I > will... > > Ad Miller > Alderson, WV > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: money for Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 18:55:35 -0600 Hello the list, This has gotten all out of hand. John sent a very generous donation for Laura's BBQ. It was enough for just one meal for Laura and her family. Lanney, from the first, said he would go down to central Texas to get Laura's present for her. The response after John was only 3 more people with small amounts. My heart hurt to think that Lanney would drive all the way down and back home for just one meal for Laura. The donations are picking up. I'm pleased for Laura's sake and grateful for Lanney's. He's the one that will be doing all the work to make this happen for our friend Laura. I know he would do anything for her, but it was my idea and he so graciously offered his help. I wanted it to be worth all his effort as well do something good for Laura. I thank those who are jumping in to make this happen. Please guys, no more going back and forth. Please. Thanks, Victoria On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:35:08 -0600 "John & Nancy McKee" <stitchin@iowatelecom.net> writes: > Addison, > I have already sent 100.00 to Victoria. Check your facts before > you blow > up. John > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> > To: "MountainMan List" <hist_text@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 11:43 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Ribs for Laura > > > > Ya know guys... I always thought that Mountainmen were close > knit... but I > > guess I was wrong. A while back, Victoria posted re Laura wanting > ribs > from > > Texas and thought it would be a nice gesture if we all pitched in > and got > > her some. From what I understand from Victoria, it will cost > about $100 > to > > send the ribs to her in the hospital. HERE IS A CHALLENGE!!! Get > off yer > > duffs and commit to $5 and lets get her her ribs!! People, this > gal is > > fighting for her life... can'e we make her a little happy here?? > > > > Vicki... Re your email to me... if these guys don't come through, > I > will... > > > > Ad Miller > > Alderson, WV > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ribs for Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 21:01:45 -0500 *grins* Ok... before everyone comes to WV with a rope to hang me... I posted my note with tongue in cheek in hopes of getting the reaction I did. Y'all restored my faith in the Brotherhood... :)) Hey Barney... no insult intended or meant... Yer welcome to share a cup at my camp anytime, my friend.... Ad Miller ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Ya know Ad, you are wrong.... not about Mountainmen, but about your > attitude... some of us have sent stuff, including cards, eMails, prayers, > books and other gifts.... in some cases with a value far above yer requested > 5 bucks. You can count me in for the Ribs, too, but please remember that > before you insult/intimidate the members of the List, Ribs ain't the only > way...... Barney > > PS. Nobody has yet suggested how, when or where to send the money! > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ribs for Laura Date: 31 Oct 2001 21:21:11 EST In a message dated 10/31/01 6:03:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, admiller@citynet.net writes: << Hey Barney... no insult intended or meant... Yer welcome to share a cup at my camp anytime, my friend.... >> Ad, Thanks for the note, and no insult taken. We all know that Mountainmen are the finest group to grace the face of the Earth. Sometimes they just need a shapr stick in the eye to get their attention! I pray that we'll all be able to share some shinin' times together, and that Laura will be the Guest of Honor. Best to you and yours. Barn PS TO VICTORIA: See, lovely Lady it's all been handled! ;) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@citynet.net> Subject: MtMan-List: Laura's Ribs Date: 31 Oct 2001 21:36:01 -0500 Hey Hawk... HELP!!! ...I think they a'gonna lynch me... *grins* Way ta go, y'all *BIGGER GRIN* !!! Ok Vicki, think I got their attention? My check is on the way as well... Ease up y'all... I did that on purpose. Thanks for the responses... although I have increased the security around my house, and added 6 hungry wolves in my backyard... Deviously yours... Ad Miller ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <amm1585@hyperusa.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laura's Ribs Date: 31 Oct 2001 21:51:20 -0600 Just a tiny bit of clarification about bbq for Laura. First, Laura isn't in the hospital. She is taking chemo and staying at home. It's a long way from Olympia, Washington to Duke U. Hospital so her doctors don't require her to come to Carolina except for the most difficult treatments. Second, she don't want any ribs. Ribs are fine, but most Texicans want brisket and Laura is no exception. Kruetz's Market has a variety of meats on the menu (including smoked porkchops which are positively amazing) but brisket is king, with a leaner shoulder cut a close second. I will get some of each for her care package. I know she will tear up a mite when she gets this. She is having a tough time and this sort of thing is big medicine. The timing of this whole enterprise is going to coincide nicely with Thanksgiving, which is even better. Thanks Lanney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Lindberg <lindy@ecol.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Laura's Ribs Date: 31 Oct 2001 22:00:53 -0600 I am posting this for a friend, please pass any information on to me and I'll pass it on to him. Thanks, Jim Lindberg Les Voyageurs du val du Chippewa Hello. I am trying to research a knife that belonged to my great grand parents. It is a large butchering type knife with a 6" wood handle and 12" blade. Hand stamped an the blade is "FOSTER BROS. Trade 12 in large numerals)" and a diamond with an arrow through it. I do some antiques but this is a new one on me. I have relatives buried on an Indian reservation in northeast Nebraska and it may have originated in that area. Thanks Ken Humphrey, Lake Park, Ia ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html