ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hist_text/archive/hist_text.200108

Internet Message Format | 2001-08-31 | 271KB

From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
Date: 01 Aug 2001 17:18:39 -0400

Larry,

Invent a sign?  Can we do that? <G>

Good logic on the chronology.

Tom

larry pendleton wrote:
>
> Tom,
>   I was very frustrated that I did not find a sign for lead or round ball.
> Then it occurred to me that Clark's book was written in the 1880's and
> Tompkin's was written latter than that.  Bar lead and round balls were not
> commonly used that late.  I think you will find that both have a sign for
> bullet or cartridge.  The sign indicates roughly a 45/70 cartridge.
>   I use the sign for gun and add a sign that I invented using the index
> finger and thumb to form a small circle to make the sign for round ball.  I
> would think you could add a sign using both hands to indicate the size and
> shape of period bar lead, as it was traded to get the sign for bar lead.
> Improvise !  Adapt and Overcome !  I figure that is what they did !
> Pendleton
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
Date: 01 Aug 2001 20:06:22 -0700

Tom,

Invent a sign?  Can we do that? <G>

>>I dunno.  Until someone comes up with the proper sign, I don't see why
not.

Pendleton







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From: "pat broehl" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
Date: 01 Aug 2001 18:36:07 -0700




Greetings,
    My opinion paralels those who consider Clark's as more liberal
and flexable, as language should be. or at least could be.
    As long as it gets the job done or the message across it is
working.  People are making up new words all the time as the need
arises.  Those of us on the receiving end that can figure out
what is being communicated will get the message.  Those that
have no capacity for variables will not.
    Spelling,pronunciation, punctuation, etc. are important enuff
to some that it will hender the conversation when it is less than
perfect.  Others may just go with the flow.
    Adding words, modifying signs and adapting speach are all
part of the process.
    That's just my opinion.     Itsaquain
>Tom,
>
>Invent a sign?  Can we do that? <G>
>
> >>I dunno.  Until someone comes up with the proper sign, I don't see why
>not.
>
>Pendleton
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: [e-mail] (Jon Marinetti)
Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark related item
Date: 01 Aug 2001 22:09:52 -0400 (EDT)

[USA Today, Tues. 07-31-01, p.7A]

South Dakota: Vermillion -- On the hill where explorers Lewis & Clark
stood nearly 200 years ago, a ceremony marked the dedication of Spirit
Mound as the newest acquisition by the state parks department.  A check
for $600,000 was presented to complete the purchase of 320 acres of
farmland, which will be returned to its natural state.  Lewis and Clark
journals indicate they climbed the mound on Aug.25, 1804.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
Date: 01 Aug 2001 22:51:47 EDT

In a message dated 8/1/01 6:37:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< People are making up new words all the time as the need arises.  Those of
us on the receiving end that can figure out what is being communicated will
get the message.  Those that have no capacity for variables will not. >>

Good point; in all peoples and all languages. I'm thinking it's called slang,
no?  Sometimes it's even later incorporated into the base language, as the
medical profession recently did with fart!    Barney

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From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
Date: 01 Aug 2001 22:26:23 -0600

>Larry,

?Invent a sign?  Can we do that? <G>


>Tom

Theyed a used it if theyed a had it. <G>

Wynn Ormond



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From: "Best, Dianne" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Flame Retardant Canvas
Date: 02 Aug 2001 11:26:22 -0500

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C11B6F.DE66BF80
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"

I used to travel with a big old wall tent, about 14 by 16 feet, 100% cotton,
that I water-proofed periodically with paraffin wax dissolved in Naphtha gas
(a process I did in the middle of an open field with no sources of
ignition!!!)

I always worried about the flammability of that tent because I often lived
in it for long periods of time. I had it up one day with very little stuff
inside it when a big bright ember from the fire spit up on the roof of the
tent. Well, seemed like a good time to test the burning qualities so I just
stood and watched it. The paraffin and cotton burned with a purdy little
flame, just like a candle wick, around the ember until the ember burned
through and fell inside. Then the flame on the canvas went out! I guess
there was enough paraffin in the cotton that it smothered the flame without
the extra heat of the ember to keep it going. I slept a lot sounder after
that!

(I have seen modern tents burn and I'll tell you boys - I WONT GO IN 'EM!!
Give me my good old cotton tent with lots of paraffin!)

------_=_NextPart_001_01C11B6F.DE66BF80
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2651.75">
<TITLE>Flame Retardant Canvas</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I used to travel with a big old =
wall tent, about 14 by 16 feet, 100% cotton, that I water-proofed =
periodically with paraffin wax dissolved in Naphtha gas (a process I =
did in the middle of an open field with no sources of =
ignition!!!)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I always worried about the =
flammability of that tent because I often lived in it for long periods =
of time. I had it up one day with very little stuff inside it when a =
big bright ember from the fire spit up on the roof of the tent. Well, =
seemed like a good time to test the burning qualities so I just stood =
and watched it. The paraffin and cotton burned with a purdy little =
flame, just like a candle wick, around the ember until the ember burned =
through and fell inside. Then the flame on the canvas went out! I guess =
there was enough paraffin in the cotton that it smothered the flame =
without the extra heat of the ember to keep it going. I slept a lot =
sounder after that!</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">(I have seen modern tents burn =
and I'll tell you boys - I WONT GO IN 'EM!! Give me my good old cotton =
tent with lots of paraffin!)</FONT></P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C11B6F.DE66BF80--

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From: "Tim Jewell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
Date: 02 Aug 2001 17:22:40 -0400

Hello the camp,

I was just browsing the Track of the Wolf website.  In their Tents section
they show a Baker style lean-to and in the description it says
"...replicates an original lean-to shown in a French fur trappers chalk
print, drawn on the plains in 1836."  Has anyone seen this chalk print or
have any further information about it?

Tim


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From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
Date: 02 Aug 2001 16:56:49 -0700

Tim,
  I haven't seen it.  I thought Bakers were circa WWI era.  Do they call it
a Baker ?  A Whelen is similar to a Baker.  I think.   I don't care for
either one.  Takes too many poles to set up.
Pendleton

Hello the camp,

I was just browsing the Track of the Wolf website.  In their Tents section
they show a Baker style lean-to and in the description it says
"...replicates an original lean-to shown in a French fur trappers chalk
print, drawn on the plains in 1836."  Has anyone seen this chalk print or
have any further information about it?

Tim





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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
Date: 02 Aug 2001 17:52:52 -0500

A Baker, circa 1853, is 1/2 of a wall tent with an attached fly.  A Whelen
is a completely different type of lean-to attributed to Colonel Townsend
Whelen, circa 1925.  I am not aware of any documentation for either being
correct to our period of interest.  A Baker takes 5 to 12 poles, a Whelen
requires 0 to 3.

John...

At 04:56 PM 8/2/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Tim,
>   I haven't seen it.  I thought Bakers were circa WWI era.  Do they call it
>a Baker ?  A Whelen is similar to a Baker.  I think.   I don't care for
>either one.  Takes too many poles to set up.
>Pendleton
>
>Hello the camp,
>
>I was just browsing the Track of the Wolf website.  In their Tents section
>they show a Baker style lean-to and in the description it says
>"...replicates an original lean-to shown in a French fur trappers chalk
>print, drawn on the plains in 1836."  Has anyone seen this chalk print or
>have any further information about it?
>
>Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
Date: 02 Aug 2001 16:43:10 -0700

Theyed a used it if theyed a had it. <G>

Wynn Ormond

Damn !  Wynn you coulda gone all summer without adding that phrase !  <G>
Pendleton




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From: "Tim Jewell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
Date: 02 Aug 2001 20:41:16 -0400


----- Original Message -----

> Tim,
>   I haven't seen it.  I thought Bakers were circa WWI era.  Do they call
it
> a Baker

That's what I thought, but the date they give for the drawing is definitely
1836.  'Course without knowing anything about the drawing or the artist it's
still not enough to draw a definite conclusion.  I just found it interesting
and maybe something more to check out.  I'm going to try sending an email to
TOW and see if they can tell me anything more.

Tim


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From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
Date: 03 Aug 2001 07:35:15 -0700

Ladies,
I remember some time ago that there was a period discussion group for Women,
is this correct and how can one get on it? I have a Lady that is new and
want's to learn.
YMOS
Ole # 718
PS. Magpie don't go there!
----------

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From: manbear <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
Date: 03 Aug 2001 11:16:18 -0400

There are two lists that my wife is on.

[e-mail] and [e-mail]

To subscribe to them go to:
 [e-mail]
 [e-mail]

YMOS
Manbear

"Ole B. Jensen" wrote:

> Ladies,
> I remember some time ago that there was a period discussion group for Women,
> is this correct and how can one get on it? I have a Lady that is new and
> want's to learn.
> YMOS
> Ole # 718
> PS. Magpie don't go there!
> ----------
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
Date: 03 Aug 2001 14:15:10 EDT


In a message dated 8/3/01 6:38:40 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I have a Lady that is new and
want's to learn.
YMOS
Ole # 718
PS. Magpie don't go there!  >>

Gawd....I just bit my tongue!  <G>

Magpie

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From: "BRAD" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth
Date: 03 Aug 2001 20:50:59 -0500

Some of you may know of this sight already, but I found it quite
interesting. Tells a lot about egyptian cotton and
oilcloth.http://www.tentsmiths.com/page34f.htm
Trapper,
 Trek'n through time, backwards!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 8:34 PM


>
>
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:33:34 -0700 "Randal Bublitz"
> <[e-mail]> writes:
> >
> > Magpie,  I'm ignorant on fine sheets and such.  Is egyptian
> > cotton readily available?
>
>           Randy,
>              Egyptian cotton has been readily available for say,
>              oh..... 'bout 5K years. <G>
>               Egyptian cotton sheets can be found at the finer department
>               stores.  You can also buy Egyptian cotton fabric.  Look
>               on the net for both.
>
>               Victoria
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "pat broehl" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
Date: 03 Aug 2001 19:42:15 -0700




>From: [e-mail]
>
>
>In a message dated 8/1/01 6:37:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>[e-mail] writes:
>
><< People are making up new words all the time . >>
>
>Good point; in all peoples and all languages. I'm thinking it's called
>slang,
>no?  Sometimes it's even later incorporated into the base language, as the
>medical profession recently did with fart!    Barney
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
I would guess that every single word in the language would have been added
one at a time as it was needed.  And no particular license was needed.  If
one person started speaking or signing a word or frase and another was able
to undrstand it ... ipso facto it became part of the language.   s'pose?

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From: "Dave and Kristi Landis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #838
Date: 04 Aug 2001 07:25:34 -0500

unsubscribe [e-mail]


TAHITIAN NONI* Juice!  Why drink it?
It is the best all-natural, organic, Health remedy in the world!
Kristi Landis ID #1207638
701-284-6216 -- [e-mail]
check it out at -- www.takenoni.com

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 8:54 PM


>
> hist_text-digest        Friday, August 3 2001        Volume 01 : Number
838
>
>
>
> In this issue:
>
> - Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
> - Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
> - MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark related item
> - Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
> - MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
> - MtMan-List: Flame Retardant Canvas
> - MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
> - Re: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
> - Re: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
> - Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
> - Re: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
> - Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
> - Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
> - Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
> - Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 20:06:22 -0700
> From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
>
> Tom,
>
> Invent a sign?  Can we do that? <G>
>
> >>I dunno.  Until someone comes up with the proper sign, I don't see why
> not.
>
> Pendleton
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:36:07 -0700
> From: "pat broehl" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
>
> Greetings,
>     My opinion paralels those who consider Clark's as more liberal
> and flexable, as language should be. or at least could be.
>     As long as it gets the job done or the message across it is
> working.  People are making up new words all the time as the need
> arises.  Those of us on the receiving end that can figure out
> what is being communicated will get the message.  Those that
> have no capacity for variables will not.
>     Spelling,pronunciation, punctuation, etc. are important enuff
> to some that it will hender the conversation when it is less than
> perfect.  Others may just go with the flow.
>     Adding words, modifying signs and adapting speach are all
> part of the process.
>     That's just my opinion.     Itsaquain
> >Tom,
> >
> >Invent a sign?  Can we do that? <G>
> >
> > >>I dunno.  Until someone comes up with the proper sign, I don't see why
> >not.
> >
> >Pendleton
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:09:52 -0400 (EDT)
> From: [e-mail] (Jon Marinetti)
> Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark related item
>
> [USA Today, Tues. 07-31-01, p.7A]
>
> South Dakota: Vermillion -- On the hill where explorers Lewis & Clark
> stood nearly 200 years ago, a ceremony marked the dedication of Spirit
> Mound as the newest acquisition by the state parks department.  A check
> for $600,000 was presented to complete the purchase of 320 acres of
> farmland, which will be returned to its natural state.  Lewis and Clark
> journals indicate they climbed the mound on Aug.25, 1804.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> from Michigan
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:51:47 EDT
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
>
> In a message dated 8/1/01 6:37:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << People are making up new words all the time as the need arises.  Those
of
> us on the receiving end that can figure out what is being communicated
will
> get the message.  Those that have no capacity for variables will not. >>
>
> Good point; in all peoples and all languages. I'm thinking it's called
slang,
> no?  Sometimes it's even later incorporated into the base language, as the
> medical profession recently did with fart!    Barney
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:26:23 -0600
> From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
>
> >Larry,
>
> ?Invent a sign?  Can we do that? <G>
>
>
> >Tom
>
> Theyed a used it if theyed a had it. <G>
>
> Wynn Ormond
>
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:26:22 -0500
> From: "Best, Dianne" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: Flame Retardant Canvas
>
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
> - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11B6F.DE66BF80
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I used to travel with a big old wall tent, about 14 by 16 feet, 100%
cotton,
> that I water-proofed periodically with paraffin wax dissolved in Naphtha
gas
> (a process I did in the middle of an open field with no sources of
> ignition!!!)
>
> I always worried about the flammability of that tent because I often lived
> in it for long periods of time. I had it up one day with very little stuff
> inside it when a big bright ember from the fire spit up on the roof of the
> tent. Well, seemed like a good time to test the burning qualities so I
just
> stood and watched it. The paraffin and cotton burned with a purdy little
> flame, just like a candle wick, around the ember until the ember burned
> through and fell inside. Then the flame on the canvas went out! I guess
> there was enough paraffin in the cotton that it smothered the flame
without
> the extra heat of the ember to keep it going. I slept a lot sounder after
> that!
>
> (I have seen modern tents burn and I'll tell you boys - I WONT GO IN 'EM!!
> Give me my good old cotton tent with lots of paraffin!)
>
> - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11B6F.DE66BF80
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
> 5.5.2651.75">
> <TITLE>Flame Retardant Canvas</TITLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I used to travel with a big old =
> wall tent, about 14 by 16 feet, 100% cotton, that I water-proofed =
> periodically with paraffin wax dissolved in Naphtha gas (a process I =
> did in the middle of an open field with no sources of =
> ignition!!!)</FONT></P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I always worried about the =
> flammability of that tent because I often lived in it for long periods =
> of time. I had it up one day with very little stuff inside it when a =
> big bright ember from the fire spit up on the roof of the tent. Well, =
> seemed like a good time to test the burning qualities so I just stood =
> and watched it. The paraffin and cotton burned with a purdy little =
> flame, just like a candle wick, around the ember until the ember burned =
> through and fell inside. Then the flame on the canvas went out! I guess =
> there was enough paraffin in the cotton that it smothered the flame =
> without the extra heat of the ember to keep it going. I slept a lot =
> sounder after that!</FONT></P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">(I have seen modern tents burn =
> and I'll tell you boys - I WONT GO IN 'EM!! Give me my good old cotton =
> tent with lots of paraffin!)</FONT></P>
>
> </BODY>
> </HTML>
> - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11B6F.DE66BF80--
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:22:40 -0400
> From: "Tim Jewell" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
>
> Hello the camp,
>
> I was just browsing the Track of the Wolf website.  In their Tents section
> they show a Baker style lean-to and in the description it says
> "...replicates an original lean-to shown in a French fur trappers chalk
> print, drawn on the plains in 1836."  Has anyone seen this chalk print or
> have any further information about it?
>
> Tim
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:56:49 -0700
> From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
>
> Tim,
>   I haven't seen it.  I thought Bakers were circa WWI era.  Do they call
it
> a Baker ?  A Whelen is similar to a Baker.  I think.   I don't care for
> either one.  Takes too many poles to set up.
> Pendleton
>
> Hello the camp,
>
> I was just browsing the Track of the Wolf website.  In their Tents section
> they show a Baker style lean-to and in the description it says
> "...replicates an original lean-to shown in a French fur trappers chalk
> print, drawn on the plains in 1836."  Has anyone seen this chalk print or
> have any further information about it?
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 17:52:52 -0500
> From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
>
> A Baker, circa 1853, is 1/2 of a wall tent with an attached fly.  A Whelen
> is a completely different type of lean-to attributed to Colonel Townsend
> Whelen, circa 1925.  I am not aware of any documentation for either being
> correct to our period of interest.  A Baker takes 5 to 12 poles, a Whelen
> requires 0 to 3.
>
> John...
>
> At 04:56 PM 8/2/01 -0700, you wrote:
> >Tim,
> >   I haven't seen it.  I thought Bakers were circa WWI era.  Do they call
it
> >a Baker ?  A Whelen is similar to a Baker.  I think.   I don't care for
> >either one.  Takes too many poles to set up.
> >Pendleton
> >
> >Hello the camp,
> >
> >I was just browsing the Track of the Wolf website.  In their Tents
section
> >they show a Baker style lean-to and in the description it says
> >"...replicates an original lean-to shown in a French fur trappers chalk
> >print, drawn on the plains in 1836."  Has anyone seen this chalk print or
> >have any further information about it?
> >
> >Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
> John Kramer  <[e-mail]>
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:43:10 -0700
> From: "larry pendleton" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
>
> Theyed a used it if theyed a had it. <G>
>
> Wynn Ormond
>
> Damn !  Wynn you coulda gone all summer without adding that phrase !  <G>
> Pendleton
>
>
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:41:16 -0400
> From: "Tim Jewell" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Baker Style Lean-to circa 1836?
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "larry pendleton"
>
> > Tim,
> >   I haven't seen it.  I thought Bakers were circa WWI era.  Do they call
> it
> > a Baker
>
> That's what I thought, but the date they give for the drawing is
definitely
> 1836.  'Course without knowing anything about the drawing or the artist
it's
> still not enough to draw a definite conclusion.  I just found it
interesting
> and maybe something more to check out.  I'm going to try sending an email
to
> TOW and see if they can tell me anything more.
>
> Tim
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 07:35:15 -0700
> From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
>
> Ladies,
> I remember some time ago that there was a period discussion group for
Women,
> is this correct and how can one get on it? I have a Lady that is new and
> want's to learn.
> YMOS
> Ole # 718
> PS. Magpie don't go there!
> - ----------
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:16:18 -0400
> From: manbear <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
>
> There are two lists that my wife is on.
>
> [e-mail] and [e-mail]
>
> To subscribe to them go to:
>  [e-mail]
>  [e-mail]
>
> YMOS
> Manbear
>
> "Ole B. Jensen" wrote:
>
> > Ladies,
> > I remember some time ago that there was a period discussion group for
Women,
> > is this correct and how can one get on it? I have a Lady that is new and
> > want's to learn.
> > YMOS
> > Ole # 718
> > PS. Magpie don't go there!
> > ----------
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:15:10 EDT
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
>
> In a message dated 8/3/01 6:38:40 AM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I have a Lady that is new and
> want's to learn.
> YMOS
> Ole # 718
> PS. Magpie don't go there!  >>
>
> Gawd....I just bit my tongue!  <G>
>
> Magpie
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:50:59 -0500
> From: "BRAD" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth
>
> Some of you may know of this sight already, but I found it quite
> interesting. Tells a lot about egyptian cotton and
> oilcloth.http://www.tentsmiths.com/page34f.htm
> Trapper,
>  Trek'n through time, backwards!
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Victoria Pate <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 8:34 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth
>
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:33:34 -0700 "Randal Bublitz"
> > <[e-mail]> writes:
> > >
> > > Magpie,  I'm ignorant on fine sheets and such.  Is egyptian
> > > cotton readily available?
> >
> >           Randy,
> >              Egyptian cotton has been readily available for say,
> >              oh..... 'bout 5K years. <G>
> >               Egyptian cotton sheets can be found at the finer
department
> >               stores.  You can also buy Egyptian cotton fabric.  Look
> >               on the net for both.
> >
> >               Victoria
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> - ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of hist_text-digest V1 #838
> *******************************
>
> -
>  To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to
> "[e-mail]"
>  with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Daniel L. Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #838
Date: 04 Aug 2001 20:12:23 -0600

<html><head><meta Name='keywords' Content='commtouch, pronto, mail, free email, free, branded, web based, free web based email, communications, internet, software, advertising banners, e-mail, free software'></head><body   ><div align='left'><font   ><blockquote><blockquote><TT>TAHITIAN NONI* Juice!  Why drink it?<BR>
It is the best all-natural, organic, Health <BR>
remedy in the world!<BR>
Kristi Landis ID #1207638<BR>
701-284-6216 -- [e-mail]<BR>
check it out at -- www.takenoni.com<BR>
____________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
Well Kristi,<BR>
Would you like the hist_list to tell you where to <BR>
put your TAHITIAN NONI* Juice, unless it's fur <BR>
trade period. <G> Right Dennis.<BR>
</TT><br><br><br><br><br><br><font><p align=left><TT>Later, <BR>
Daniel L. "Concho" Smith<BR>
_____________________________________________ <BR>
HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT_______HRD__<BR>
http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/_________HRD__<BR>
<BR>
      [Outdoor Ethics] "Leave No Sign"<BR>
_____________________________________________</TT><br><TT>Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com </TT></blockquote></blockquote></div></font></body></html>

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #838
Date: 04 Aug 2001 22:21:49 EDT


In a message dated 8/4/01 7:12:51 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< It is the best all-natural, organic, Health
remedy in the world!
Kristi Landis ID #1207638 >>

Ole Kristi is livin on the edge.....

Magpie

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Museum of fur trade
Date: 05 Aug 2001 03:02:28 EDT

Does anyone know if the Museum of  fur trade is still open.Got a friend who
is going up that way and he heard it was closed down for good? Anyone know?

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
[e-mail]

----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: problem??? need help
Date: 05 Aug 2001 08:22:04 -0400

I just got this message on my Lodgeowners message board and wondering if any of
you have run into this problem or any suggestions you could give to help.

Linda Holley

My name is Dale Johnson. I live in Portola California.
For over 14 years, I have put up my tipi in my yard,
for a week or two during the summer. I use my tipi for
a boys club (Royal Rangers) that I work with, I have
used it for living history days for the school, I am
also a historical reactor of the western fur trade.

On july 11th. the city (small town)of Portola told me
that I was in violation of building codes! So I had to
take my tipi down.  One of the violations was that it
is against the building codes to have any thing on a
corner lot over 3 feet tall, if it is on the side of
the lot where the street is. No problem, I will just
move my tipi to the other side of the house, away from
the street, Right? Wrong!!!! If I do this I will be in
violation of building code #17.24.070 "Building
Height". because my tipi is over 15 feet tall. The
city feels that my tipi is no different than a carport
or a tool shed when it comes to the building codes.
This has basically outlawed tipis in my town.

I am asking for help, I need as many tipi lovers as
possible to write a letter to the editor of our
newspaper.

The address is.......
The Portola Reporter
116 Commercial St.
Portola Ca. 96122

or e-mail them at
www.plumasnews.com
just click on "send a letter to the editor.

If you can, please pass this on to other tipi lovers.
Thank You
Dale Johnson

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re:hist_text-digest V1 #838-on thee edge !!!!!
Date: 05 Aug 2001 23:27:38 +0800

Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #838
____________________________________________
TAHITIAN NONI* Juice!  Why drink it?
It is the best all-natural, organic, Health remedy in the world!
Kristi Landis ID #1207638  701-284-6216 -- [e-mail]
check it out at -- www.takenoni.com
____________________________________________
Well Kristi,
Would you like the hist_list to tell you where to  put your TAHITIAN NONI* Juice,
unless it's fur   trade period. <G> Right Dennis.
Concho
____________________________________________
<< It is the best all-natural, organic, Health  remedy in the world!  Kristi Landis ID
#1207638 >>

Ole Kristi is livin on the edge.....
Magpie
____________________________________________

Being slow, guess it don't get better than that, right Magpie. An edge is an edge........

Buck.
--


   Take care,
      Buck Conner
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     [Outdoor Ethics] "Leave No Trace"
    "Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
    ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


_______________________________________________
Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free!
http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143







----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Museum of fur trade
Date: 05 Aug 2001 23:34:19 +0800


-----Original Message-----

> Does anyone know if the Museum of  fur trade is still open.Got a friend who
> is going up that way and he heard it was closed down for good? Anyone know?
>
> Traphand
> Rick Petzoldt
> [e-mail]
>
> ----------------------

Why not give them a call at 1-308-432-3843 or fax them at 1-308-432-5963.

their web site is: www.furtrade.org

will forward this to them at: [e-mail]

their hours are from 8AM to 5PM from Memorial Day to September 30th according to the last "Quarterly", this has been the standard hours for the last twenty years at least.

--


   Take care,
      Buck Conner
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     [Outdoor Ethics] "Leave No Trace"
    "Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
    ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


_______________________________________________
Talk More, Pay Less with Net2Phone Direct(R), up to 1500 minutes free!
http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/link.cgi?143







----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Museum of fur trade
Date: 05 Aug 2001 18:14:53 -0400

Traphand,

Last month I spent one of the best days of my life at the MFT
and, yes, they are very much alive with a growing visitorship
each year.  Your friend should find them well.  Hopefully has
has more than only one day to spend there and lot's of film.

Tom

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if the Museum of  fur trade is still open.Got a friend who
> is going up that way and he heard it was closed down for good? Anyone know?
>
> Traphand
> Rick Petzoldt
> [e-mail]
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Museum of fur trade
Date: 05 Aug 2001 20:34:06 EDT

Buck thank you for the phone number.

Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
[e-mail]

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: List for Women
Date: 05 Aug 2001 21:17:31 EDT


In a message dated 8/3/1 7:16:22 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Gawd....I just bit my tongue!  <G>

Magpie>>

In my youth I was told that a Magpie could have his tongue split and taught
to talk just like a human.  Lets watch and see what happens when the swelling
goes down.

RJames

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Brochure
Date: 05 Aug 2001 22:55:02 -0400

Hi all ,
 Excuse the announcement and the cross posting. But to increased inquiries
for a brochure, both from list members and others.. I have made up one. I
have no idea WHY anyone that has web access would want one, but what do I
know?  If you want one. Send $1.00 AND a S.A.S.E (BUSINESS SIZED ONLY) to me
here at the shop and I will send you one... God help us.....
Later
D

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
       Knives and Iron Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1

   "Knowing how is just the beginning."


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: problem??? need help
Date: 06 Aug 2001 08:40:11 EDT


--part1_6f.1905350f.289fea2b_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/5/01 9:18:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> to the building codes.
> This has basically outlawed tipis in my town.
>
>

You may want to do a little research into the code to see how it applys to
"temporary structures".   I have had some dealings in the past (touring
theatre companies and rock and roll out doors) and most of the building codes
apply to "permanent"  structures.  And if you are using it to do boy scout
demos etc you may be able to put it up for the days of the demo.
Unfortunately if you leave it up they will get you as a permanent structure.
So research that.  Also see if you can find a member of the town board that
was or is a scout and ask the scouts to ask that board member for assistance.
 Town boards can overrule or give exemptions to the code enforcement.

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes

--part1_6f.1905350f.289fea2b_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 8/5/01 9:18:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>[e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">to the building codes.
<BR>This has basically outlawed tipis in my town.
<BR>
<BR>I am asking for help, </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>You may want to do a little research into the code to see how it applys to
<BR>"temporary structures".   I have had some dealings in the past (touring
<BR>theatre companies and rock and roll out doors) and most of the building codes
<BR>apply to "permanent"  structures.  And if you are using it to do boy scout
<BR>demos etc you may be able to put it up for the days of the demo.
<BR>Unfortunately if you leave it up they will get you as a permanent structure.
<BR>So research that.  Also see if you can find a member of the town board that
<BR>was or is a scout and ask the scouts to ask that board member for assistance.
<BR> Town boards can overrule or give exemptions to the code enforcement.
<BR>
<BR>Y.M.O.S.
<BR>
<BR>C.T. Oakes</FONT></HTML>

--part1_6f.1905350f.289fea2b_boundary--

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: problem??? need help
Date: 06 Aug 2001 09:55:17 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C11E5D.E5AB86E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Along with the good advice C.T. Oakes gives below, keep this thought in =
mind......

Building Departments etc. are in the business of enforcing codes not =
looking for ways to let you do what you want. If you want to do =
something that they initially recognize as not permitted by the code =
they enforce, it's your right and responsibility to find a way that will =
allow them to permit your activity or project and once you find it they =
are usually more than happy to let you proceed. It's the nature of the =
beast.

As a Fire Inspector years ago, I saw the Building Inspector disallow =
certain things that, with some searching of the Code on my part for the =
benefit of the citizen, could be allowed via the right route through the =
Rules. And remember that 'sometimes it's easier to get forgivness than =
it is to get permission'. (Old Fire Captain saying) <G>

Capt. Lahti'
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:40 AM
  Subject: Re: MtMan-List: problem??? need help


  In a message dated 8/5/01 9:18:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
  [e-mail] writes:=20



    to the building codes.=20
    This has basically outlawed tipis in my town.=20

    I am asking for help,=20


  You may want to do a little research into the code to see how it =
applys to=20
  "temporary structures".   I have had some dealings in the past =
(touring=20
  theatre companies and rock and roll out doors) and most of the =
building codes=20
  apply to "permanent"  structures.  And if you are using it to do boy =
scout=20
  demos etc you may be able to put it up for the days of the demo.  =20
  Unfortunately if you leave it up they will get you as a permanent =
structure.  =20
  So research that.  Also see if you can find a member of the town board =
that=20
  was or is a scout and ask the scouts to ask that board member for =
assistance.=20
   Town boards can overrule or give exemptions to the code enforcement.=20

  Y.M.O.S.=20

  C.T. Oakes=20

------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C11E5D.E5AB86E0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Along with the good advice C.T. Oakes =
gives below,=20
keep this thought in mind......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Building Departments etc. are in the =
business of=20
enforcing codes not looking for ways to let you do what you want. If you =
want to=20
do something that they initially recognize as not permitted by the code =
they=20
enforce, it's your right and responsibility to find a way that will =
allow them=20
to permit your activity or project and once you find it they are usually =
more=20
than happy to let you proceed. It's the nature of the =
beast.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As a Fire Inspector years ago, I saw =
the Building=20
Inspector disallow certain things that, with some searching of the Code =
on my=20
part for the benefit of the citizen, could be allowed via the right =
route=20
through the Rules. And remember that 'sometimes it's easier to get =
forgivness=20
than it is to get permission'. (Old Fire Captain saying) =
<G></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 06, 2001 =
5:40=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: MtMan-List: =
problem??? need=20
  help</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>In a =
message dated=20
  8/5/01 9:18:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> writes: =
<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">to the building codes. <BR>This has basically outlawed =
tipis in=20
    my town. <BR><BR>I am asking for help, </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>You may =
want to do=20
  a little research into the code to see how it applys to <BR>"temporary =

  structures".   I have had some dealings in the past (touring =

  <BR>theatre companies and rock and roll out doors) and most of the =
building=20
  codes <BR>apply to "permanent"  structures.  And if you are =
using it=20
  to do boy scout <BR>demos etc you may be able to put it up for the =
days of the=20
  demo.   <BR>Unfortunately if you leave it up they will get you as =
a=20
  permanent structure.   <BR>So research that.  Also see if =
you can=20
  find a member of the town board that <BR>was or is a scout and ask the =
scouts=20
  to ask that board member for assistance. <BR> Town boards can =
overrule or=20
  give exemptions to the code enforcement. <BR><BR>Y.M.O.S. <BR><BR>C.T. =

  Oakes</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: problem??? need help
Date: 06 Aug 2001 13:00:03 EDT

This problem is not just in the cities.  I ran into the same situation with
the Forest Service when preparing to do my week-long Living History
Presentation for a YMCA Camp in the San Bernardino Mountains, outside of Los
Angeles.

They (the USFS) have prohibited ANY temporary structures on private and/or
leased land within the forests. This does not apply to public campgrounds or
wilderness areas, where an Adventure Pass is required, but created quite a
problem for the Y Camp, which is on the land pursuant to a 99-year lease.

Fortunately, the local Ranger was very understanding and basically turned the
other way, giving me the OK to set up and live in my lodge for the week.
Needless to say, the camp, children and I were very appreciative.

And by the way... thanks to the input I received from many of the members of
this list, the presentation was a great success, and I have been invited back
to do it again next year!  Y'all ARE the best!

Barney


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From: "De Santis, Nick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: problem??? need help
Date: 06 Aug 2001 10:54:20 -0700

I can't not respond to these tall tails!  Man o man, can some communities be
narrow.  In my book (Poles + Canvas) = Tent; "temporary structure"?  I don't
get it. You can't camp in the US Forest? If you screwed two little lawnmower
wheels to a couple of lodge poles, does that make it a travel trailer?

Couldn't help myself,

Travler

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:00 AM


This problem is not just in the cities.  I ran into the same situation with
the Forest Service when preparing to do my week-long Living History
Presentation for a YMCA Camp in the San Bernardino Mountains, outside of Los

Angeles.

They (the USFS) have prohibited ANY temporary structures on private and/or
leased land within the forests. This does not apply to public campgrounds or

wilderness areas, where an Adventure Pass is required, but created quite a
problem for the Y Camp, which is on the land pursuant to a 99-year lease.

Fortunately, the local Ranger was very understanding and basically turned
the
other way, giving me the OK to set up and live in my lodge for the week.
Needless to say, the camp, children and I were very appreciative.

And by the way... thanks to the input I received from many of the members of

this list, the presentation was a great success, and I have been invited
back
to do it again next year!  Y'all ARE the best!

Barney


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From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: problem??? need help
Date: 06 Aug 2001 16:53:33 -0400

No, I think it makes it a "BattleBot".  Any one seen the new Robot battle bots
on tv.????

Linda Holley

"De Santis, Nick" wrote:

> I can't not respond to these tall tails!  Man o man, can some communities be
> narrow.  In my book (Poles + Canvas) = Tent; "temporary structure"?  I don't
> get it. You can't camp in the US Forest? If you screwed two little lawnmower
> wheels to a couple of lodge poles, does that make it a travel trailer?
>
> Couldn't help myself,
>
> Travler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 10:00 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: problem??? need help
>
> This problem is not just in the cities.  I ran into the same situation with
> the Forest Service when preparing to do my week-long Living History
> Presentation for a YMCA Camp in the San Bernardino Mountains, outside of Los
>
> Angeles.
>
> They (the USFS) have prohibited ANY temporary structures on private and/or
> leased land within the forests. This does not apply to public campgrounds or
>
> wilderness areas, where an Adventure Pass is required, but created quite a
> problem for the Y Camp, which is on the land pursuant to a 99-year lease.
>
> Fortunately, the local Ranger was very understanding and basically turned
> the
> other way, giving me the OK to set up and live in my lodge for the week.
> Needless to say, the camp, children and I were very appreciative.
>
> And by the way... thanks to the input I received from many of the members of
>
> this list, the presentation was a great success, and I have been invited
> back
> to do it again next year!  Y'all ARE the best!
>
> Barney
>
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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: The Mt. Men on History Channel
Date: 06 Aug 2001 15:07:53 -0700

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Friends,

I see that "The Mt. Men" is now playing on the History Channel out west =
here. I'll be missing it as I need to leave the house for a few hours. =
Enjoy.

Capt. Lahti'

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Friends,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I see that "The Mt. Men" is now playing =
on the=20
History Channel out west here. I'll be missing it as I need to leave the =
house=20
for a few hours. Enjoy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Capt.=20
Lahti'</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: OFF LIST....watch your parents closely
Date: 06 Aug 2001 23:47:50 -0500

Ho the list
This is a long way from being pertinent to any current discussion but I am
throwing it out anyhow.  Hit DELETE now if you object.
I just returned from several days at Port Aransas on the Texas gulf coast
where my 78 year old mother is a long time resident.  I got a call Thursday
that she had been in a auto accident and was in ICU so I went down there to
see about the problem.  Turns out she was having some sort of occasional
heart rhythm problems and her brain wasn't getting enough blood and had been
functioning very poorly from time to time for God knows how long.  The
result was that she more or less passed out while approaching the ferry
landing at Aransas Pass and she ran her pickup through a barricade and off
into the briny deep.  Luckily the water was not very deep where she landed
and she suffered no physical damage (the truck was another story) and a
pacemaker was installed on Saturday to fix the heart problem.  Her prognosis
is good.
I didn't say all that to elicit sympathy for my dear ol' sainted mom, but to
say that we should remember that the elderly need a careful eye cast on them
by somebody who has know them for years to notice fundamental changes in
their demeanor, habits, thinking ability and general personality.  My mom
has chosen to live away from any family and her new neighbors failed to
notice the changes that would have signaled me or my brother that something
was seriously wrong.  Had these changes been noticed a near fatal accident
could have been averted.  I'm not sure if anything could have been done in
my mom's case because after decades of alienating just about everybody who
ever know her, she is harder to corner that a shit-house rat.  Some of you
have heard me say that where she spits, grass never grows.

Hopefully the elders in your family don't pose the problem my mom does and
you can keep a weather eye on them to make their Winter days a little less
scary.

Lanney Ratcliff


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From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF LIST....watch your parents closely
Date: 07 Aug 2001 10:18:37 -0400

Right you are Lanney. Thanks for the reminder....

Ad Miller
Alderson, WV


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From: "Gene Hickman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF LIST....watch your parents closely
Date: 07 Aug 2001 18:08:27 -0600

I had not thought of it, but I will. Thanks.

GENE
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:18 AM


> Right you are Lanney. Thanks for the reminder....
>
> Ad Miller
> Alderson, WV
>
>
> ----------------------
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From: "no" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Swiss Army Shovel
Date: 07 Aug 2001 21:44:34 -0500

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Would any list member know where else to get a Swiss Army shovel?
Cheaper than Dirt is sold out.  Thanks

Frank

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
<DIV>Would any list member know where else to get a Swiss Army =
shovel?</DIV>
<DIV>Cheaper than Dirt is sold out.  Thanks</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Frank</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swiss Army Shovel
Date: 07 Aug 2001 22:07:38 -0500

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Go to Google.com and enter a search for "swiss army shovel"......don't =
forget the quotes..... and get the following results.
Lanney Ratcliff

Outdoor Adventure
... Swiss Army Shovel When you purchase this authentic Swiss Army shovel =
for your son,
you will not only be getting a handy tool, perfectly sized for a boy or =
a man ...=20
www.visionforum.com/boysadventure/productlist.asp?dept=3D23 - 20k - =
Cached - Similar pages


Military Gear Specials
... Folding Shovel w/Pick+Leather Case German Army, 10.00, SN-158, Swiss =
Army Shovel
w/Leather Case WWII Era, 20.00, SN-161, WWII British Pattern 37 Web Set, =
25.00, SN-163, ...=20
www.northridgeinc.com/sp_gear.htm - 101k - Cached - Similar pages


Llama Life II, No 53 - Spring 2000
... On the Trail. Eastern Pack Llama Trials Expand - Viv
Fulton; The Swiss Army Shovel - Jay Rais. People. ...=20
www.llamalife.com/archives/spring2000.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages


The War On Boys
... even things like "The Bushman Adventure Knife," the "Trumark =
Slingshot, " and a "Swiss
Army Shovel." In fact, the very first entry in the catalog says that "A =
...=20
www.stirling.u-net.com/awoboy14.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar pages


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Go to Google.com and enter a search for "swiss army=20
shovel"......don't forget the quotes..... and get the following=20
results.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney Ratcliff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<P><A=20
href=3D"http://www.visionforum.com/boysadventure/productlist.asp?dept=3D2=
3">Outdoor=20
Adventure</A><FONT size=3D-1><BR><B>...</B> <B>Swiss</B> <B>Army</B> =
<B>Shovel</B>=20
When you purchase this authentic <B>Swiss</B> <B>Army</B> <B>shovel</B> =
for your=20
son,<BR>you will not only be getting a handy tool, perfectly sized for a =
boy or=20
a man <B>...</B> <BR><FONT=20
color=3Dgreen>www.visionforum.com/boysadventure/productlist.asp?dept=3D23=
 - 20k - <A=20
class=3Dl=20
href=3D"http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dcache:dgrJGZm37rM:www.visionforu=
m.com/boysadventure/productlist.asp%3Fdept%3D23+%22swiss+army+shovel%22&a=
mp;hl=3Den">Cached</A>=20
- <A class=3Dl=20
href=3D"http://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&safe=3Doff&num=3D10&=
amp;q=3Drelated:www.visionforum.com/boysadventure/productlist.asp%3Fdept%=
3D23">Similar=20
pages</A></FONT></FONT><BR>
<P><A href=3D"http://www.northridgeinc.com/sp_gear.htm">Military Gear=20
Specials</A><FONT size=3D-1><BR><B>...</B> Folding <B>Shovel</B> =
w/Pick+Leather=20
Case German <B>Army</B>, 10.00, SN-158, <B>Swiss</B> <B>Army</B>=20
<B>Shovel</B><BR>w/Leather Case WWII Era, 20.00, SN-161, WWII British =
Pattern 37=20
Web Set, 25.00, SN-163, <B>...</B> <BR><FONT=20
color=3Dgreen>www.northridgeinc.com/sp_gear.htm - 101k - <A class=3Dl=20
href=3D"http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dcache:sjJWq2-7oRs:www.northridge=
inc.com/sp_gear.htm+%22swiss+army+shovel%22&hl=3Den">Cached</A>=20
- <A class=3Dl=20
href=3D"http://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&safe=3Doff&num=3D10&=
amp;q=3Drelated:www.northridgeinc.com/sp_gear.htm">Similar=20
pages</A></FONT></FONT><BR>
<P><A href=3D"http://www.llamalife.com/archives/spring2000.html">Llama =
Life II, No=20
53 - Spring 2000</A><FONT size=3D-1><BR><B>...</B> On the Trail. Eastern =
Pack=20
Llama Trials Expand - Viv<BR>Fulton; The <B>Swiss</B> <B>Army</B> =
<B>Shovel</B>=20
- Jay Rais. People. <B>...</B> <BR><FONT=20
color=3Dgreen>www.llamalife.com/archives/spring2000.html - 6k - <A =
class=3Dl=20
href=3D"http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dcache:FTFjjwlfR5k:www.llamalife.=
com/archives/spring2000.html+%22swiss+army+shovel%22&hl=3Den">Cached<=
/A>=20
- <A class=3Dl=20
href=3D"http://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&safe=3Doff&num=3D10&=
amp;q=3Drelated:www.llamalife.com/archives/spring2000.html">Similar=20
pages</A></FONT></FONT><BR>
<P><A href=3D"http://www.stirling.u-net.com/awoboy14.htm">The War On =
Boys</A><FONT=20
size=3D-1><BR><B>...</B> even things like "The Bushman Adventure Knife," =
the=20
"Trumark Slingshot, " and a "<B>Swiss</B><BR><B>Army</B> <B>Shovel</B>." =
In=20
fact, the very first entry in the catalog says that "A <B>...</B> =
<BR><FONT=20
color=3Dgreen>www.stirling.u-net.com/awoboy14.htm - 7k - <A class=3Dl=20
href=3D"http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dcache:y4z74A0BMNg:www.stirling.u=
-net.com/awoboy14.htm+%22swiss+army+shovel%22&hl=3Den">Cached</A>=20
- <A class=3Dl=20
href=3D"http://www.google.com/search?hl=3Den&safe=3Doff&num=3D10&=
amp;q=3Drelated:www.stirling.u-net.com/awoboy14.htm">Similar=20
pages</A></FONT></FONT></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF LIST....watch your parents closely
Date: 08 Aug 2001 10:36:54 EDT

Thanks Lanney,
    I'm kinda in the same boat.  Just went to SE Washington to visit My folks
and my grandma (she turned 86 on July 4}.  The folks said she was "not long
for this ol' world."  Turns out the old gal still has a lot of fight left in
her and it's my dad I need to keep an eye on.  He's got the same "spit to
kill grass" attitude.  What to do? What to do?

Sleeps Loudly

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From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF LIST....watch your parents closely
Date: 10 Aug 2001 08:06:29 -0600

It is interesting how often we all face similar trials in life.
Unfortunately, the day is soon coming that I will not be able to keep an
eye on my father anymore.  I hear a lot of people who are shocked by how
fast the young ones grow but it shocks me more to see the adults fall
away.  Soon there will only be us kids left.  Surely we can not be
expected to fill the boots like the ones he will be leaving!

Wynn Ormond



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OFF LIST....watch your parents closely
Date: 11 Aug 2001 01:33:37 EDT

Amen, Wynn.   Amen.


ZZZZZZZZZZ
Sleeps Loudly

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From: "Paul W. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A fishing reference
Date: 11 Aug 2001 17:03:02 -0500

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George Laycock, author of "The Mountain Men, The Dramatic History and =
Lore ofthe First Frontiersmen," Lyons Press, 1988, 1996, makes several =
statements related to fishing.  However, he gives no citations for such =
statements, and I am asking for help in terms of identfying the source =
for one or more of such statements.

1.    "Mountain men often carried fishhooks in their gear and, given the =
opportunity, caught and ate everything from trout to catfish."

    a.  Is anyone aware of any reference to mountain men carrying =
fishing in their gear?

    b.  Other than the fishing and fish eating accounts in the Lewis and =
Clark Journals, Stuart's narratives during the Astorian era, Hoback's =
fishing as he and his two companions tried to keep from starving, and =
the references in Matthew Field's journals about Sir William's fishing =
party, is anyone aware of other references to mountain men catching =
and/or eating trout, catfish or whatever had fins?

2.    "One trapping brigade, after weeks of near starvation in the =
southwestern deserts, arrived at the Snake River where trout were =
plentiful.  They had no hooks but one of them........discovered a large =
pin......(which he) ....fashioned into a hook, it caught enough large =
trout on live bait to feed the brigade."

    a.   Can anyone cite me a book or other reference which would =
identify this party, the date, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Paul
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Ron and Gayle=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 11:24 AM
  Subject: Re: AMM-List: Re: Land Rules


  George,
  There is nothing wrong with the interim rules. Our post was not meant =
as a critisism, but as a suggestion for permanent
  rules If the Vote was today and the proposal was to adopt the interim =
rules as permanent, I would Vote a resounding YES!
  As I said to Grizz in an earlier post, Simpler is better as I see it". =
Very little ambiguity.
  yhaos
  Ron Harris
  "litefoot
  Tejas
  1539

    Subject: AMM-List: Re: Land Rules


    Thank you Ron, and the Brothers who have taken the time to propose =
some new=20
    land rules.=20
    I would humbly like to inquire what is wrong with the current =
interim rules=20
    as stated in the January 2001 Moccasin Mail? Excluding number 4, =
which deals=20
    with hunting and trapping on the property, I believe that they =
pretty much=20
    cover all the bases. That rule has been deleted to allow hunting on =
the=20
    property.=20
    Also, I concur with Walt Hayward in regards to the cabin.=20

    Your Brother,=20

    George Thompson,=20
    Capitaine, A.M.M.=20


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>George Laycock, author of "The Mountain Men, =
The=20
Dramatic History and Lore ofthe First Frontiersmen," Lyons Press, 1988, =
1996,=20
makes several statements related to fishing.  However, he gives no=20
citations for such statements, and I am asking for help in terms of =
identfying=20
the source for one or more of such statements.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>1.    "Mountain men often =
carried=20
fishhooks in their gear and, given the opportunity, caught and ate =
everything=20
from trout to catfish."</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>    a.  Is anyone aware =
of any=20
reference to mountain men carrying fishing in their =
gear?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>    b.  Other than the =
fishing and=20
fish eating accounts in the Lewis and Clark Journals, Stuart's =
narratives during=20
the Astorian era, Hoback's fishing as he and his two companions tried to =
keep=20
from starving, and the references in Matthew Field's journals about Sir=20
William's fishing party, is anyone aware of other references to mountain =
men=20
catching and/or eating trout, catfish or whatever had=20
fins?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>2.    "One trapping brigade, =
after=20
weeks of near starvation in the southwestern deserts, arrived at the =
Snake River=20
where trout were plentiful.  They had no hooks but one of=20
them........discovered a large pin......(which he) ....fashioned into a =
hook, it=20
caught enough large trout on live bait to feed the=20
brigade."</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=3D2>    a.   Can =
anyone cite=20
me a book or other reference which would identify this party, the date,=20
etc.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Thanks in advance.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Regards,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><STRONG>Paul</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" title=[e-mail]>Ron and =
Gayle</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 10, 2001 =
11:24=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: AMM-List: Re: Land =

  Rules</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>George,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There is nothing wrong with the =
interim rules.=20
  Our post was not meant as a critisism, but as a suggestion for=20
  permanent</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>rules If the Vote was today =
and the proposal=20
  was to adopt the interim rules as permanent, I would Vote a resounding =

  YES!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As I said to Grizz in an earlier =
post, Simpler is=20
  better as I see it". Very little ambiguity.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>yhaos</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ron Harris</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"litefoot</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tejas</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1539</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> AMM-List: Re: Land =
Rules</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Thank you =
Ron, and=20
    the Brothers who have taken the time to propose some new <BR>land =
rules.=20
    <BR>I would humbly like to inquire what is wrong with the current =
interim=20
    rules <BR>as stated in the January 2001 Moccasin Mail? Excluding =
number 4,=20
    which deals <BR>with hunting and trapping on the property, I believe =
that=20
    they pretty much <BR>cover all the bases. That rule has been deleted =
to=20
    allow hunting on the <BR>property. <BR>Also, I concur with Walt =
Hayward in=20
    regards to the cabin. <BR><BR>Your Brother, <BR><BR>George Thompson, =

    <BR>Capitaine, A.M.M. =
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C12287.7B417020--


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From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A fishing reference
Date: 11 Aug 2001 19:55:33 -0400


Here's one find from the diary of William Ashley on May 27th 1825 where
he not only
mentions catching, eating, and enjoying fish, but he also shows 2
indians how to fish
and gives them some tackle.

"The Next day Wednesday May 27th I arrived at the place appointed to
meet the men sent to kill Buffaloe, as well as The band of Indians &
late in the afternoon two Indians arrived to inform me that in
consequence of the mountanous situation of the Country that the Lodges
would not arrive sooner than three days; and requested that I would wait
their arrival that they would supply me with 6 horses, I consented to
wait, the Indians remained until the next morning - [interlined:
Thursday 28th] and then started to assist & hurry their [deleted: band]
tribe [?] during the last two days we have lived on fish we caught with
hooks & lines we find them of an excellent kind of a different Speeces
to any that I ever before have seen similar in appearance to our pike
They have but few scales or bones, those of which we caught were from
one to two feet long, the[y] appared quite a curiosity to the Indians -
I shewed them how they were caught & gave Each one a hook & line with
which they were much pleased - The country below so far as I decended is
an Entirely mountains of rock destitute of timber (Except [interlined:
in places] on the border of the river) grass or game, although I was
notified that game could not be had in it I expected to find as I had
Every day in decending the river found [?] geese sufficient for our
subsistance, but to my supprise and regret not one was to be seen - The
weather is becoming warm and the musketoes troublesome, of the latter -
we may expect (from their Early appearance) an abundant supply this
summer - "


Now then, who can identify the approximate location of this event?


Tom

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From: Kierst Family <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A fishing reference
Date: 12 Aug 2001 08:47:35 -0600

>A book that will tell you the date and party is Joe Meek The Merry
>Mountain Man by Stanley Vestal. Page 118.
Dirty Shirt

 George Laycock, author of "The Mountain Men, The  Dramatic History and
Lore ofthe First Frontiersmen," Lyons Press, 1988, 1996,  makes several
statements related to fishing.  However, he gives no  citations for such
statements, and I am asking for help in terms of identfying  the source for
one or more of such statements.   1.    "Mountain men often carried
fishhooks in their gear and, given the opportunity, caught and ate
everything  >from trout to catfish."       a.  Is anyone aware of any
reference to mountain men carrying fishing in their gear?       b.  Other
than the fishing and  fish eating accounts in the Lewis and Clark Journals,
Stuart's narratives during  the Astorian era, Hoback's fishing as he and
his two companions tried to keep  >from starving, and the references in
Matthew Field's journals about Sir  William's fishing party, is anyone
aware of other references to mountain men  catching and/or eating trout,
catfish or whatever had  fins?   2.    "One trapping brigade, after  weeks
of near starvation in the southwestern deserts, arrived at the Snake River
where trout were plentiful.  They had no hooks but one of
them........discovered a large pin......(which he) ....fashioned into a
hook, it  caught enough large trout on live bait to feed the  brigade."
    a.   Can anyone cite  me a book or other reference which would identify
this party, the date,  etc.   Thanks in advance.   Regards,   Paul
>
>   ----- Original Message -----    From:    <mailto:[e-mail]>Ron and
>Gayle    To: [e-mail]    Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001
>11:24    AM   Subject: Re: AMM-List: Re: Land    Rules
>   George,   There is nothing wrong with the interim rules.    Our post
>was not meant as a critisism, but as a suggestion for    permanent   rules
>If the Vote was today and the proposal    was to adopt the interim rules
>as permanent, I would Vote a resounding    YES!   As I said to Grizz in an
>earlier post, Simpler is    better as I see it". Very little ambiguity.
>yhaos   Ron Harris   "litefoot   Tejas   1539
>
>     Subject: AMM-List: Re: Land Rules
>Thank you Ron, and      the Brothers who have taken the time to propose
>some new
>land rules.
>I would humbly like to inquire what is wrong with the current interim
>rules
>as stated in the January 2001 Moccasin Mail? Excluding number 4,
>which deals
>with hunting and trapping on the property, I believe that      they pretty
>much
>cover all the bases. That rule has been deleted to      allow hunting on the
>property.
>Also, I concur with Walt Hayward in      regards to the cabin.
>
>Your Brother,
>
>George Thompson,
>Capitaine, A.M.M.




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From: "Gene Hickman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A fishing reference
Date: 12 Aug 2001 10:57:48 -0600

Here's my guess: Somewhere on the Snake River? Indians Ute or Snake. Fish
probably sturgeon.

Ghosting Wolf

----- Original Message -----
Cc: <[e-mail]>


>
> Here's one find from the diary of William Ashley on May 27th 1825 where
> he not only
> mentions catching, eating, and enjoying fish, but he also shows 2
> indians how to fish
> and gives them some tackle.
>
> "The Next day Wednesday May 27th I arrived at the place appointed to
> meet the men sent to kill Buffaloe, as well as The band of Indians....
during the last two days we have lived on fish we caught with
> hooks & lines we find them of an excellent kind of a different Speeces
> to any that I ever before have seen similar in appearance to our pike
> They have but few scales or bones, those of which we caught were from
> one to two feet long, the[y] appared quite a curiosity to the
Indians -....

> Now then, who can identify the approximate location of this event?
>
>
> Tom



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From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A fishing reference
Date: 12 Aug 2001 16:17:54 -0400

That's what I was thinking.  Earlier entries in this journal
tell of some rather challenging sections of river.

Tom

Gene Hickman wrote:
>
> Here's my guess: Somewhere on the Snake River? Indians Ute or Snake. Fish
> probably sturgeon.
>
> Ghosting Wolf
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tom roberts" <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Cc: <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A fishing reference
>
> >
> > Here's one find from the diary of William Ashley on May 27th 1825 where
> > he not only
> > mentions catching, eating, and enjoying fish, but he also shows 2
> > indians how to fish
> > and gives them some tackle.
> >
> > "The Next day Wednesday May 27th I arrived at the place appointed to
> > meet the men sent to kill Buffaloe, as well as The band of Indians....
> during the last two days we have lived on fish we caught with
> > hooks & lines we find them of an excellent kind of a different Speeces
> > to any that I ever before have seen similar in appearance to our pike
> > They have but few scales or bones, those of which we caught were from
> > one to two feet long, the[y] appared quite a curiosity to the
> Indians -....
>
> > Now then, who can identify the approximate location of this event?
> >
> >
> > Tom
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: "Steve Banks" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Museum of fur trade
Date: 07 Aug 2001 18:49:48 -0600

It has new displays and is open until labor day.  info from Ann Hansen, face
to face!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 1:02 AM


> Does anyone know if the Museum of  fur trade is still open.Got a friend
who
> is going up that way and he heard it was closed down for good? Anyone
know?
>
> Traphand
> Rick Petzoldt
> [e-mail]
>
> ----------------------
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From: "Henry B. Crawford" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzle Blasts
Date: 06 Jan 2001 10:06:01 -0600


>- --part1_86.d66c1e9.2898abb3_boundary
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Muzzle Blast Is on Wednesday at 4:00 PM MDT on the Outdoor Channel
>Roadkill
>

Doesn't help us working blokes unless we set the old timer.  Is it repeated
earlier, later, or weekends?

Does Outdoor Life Channel have a website?

HBC

***********************************
Henry B. Crawford
Curator of History
Museum of Texas Tech University
Box 43191
Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
[e-mail]
806/742-2442, ext 255   FAX [phone]
Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
***Living History . . . Because It's There***



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzle Blasts
Date: 13 Aug 2001 18:16:16 EDT


In a message dated 8/13/01 8:06:44 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Muzzle Blast Is on Wednesday at 4:00 PM MDT on the Outdoor Channel
>Roadkill >>

Hello Henry,

I don't think you missed much.... I saw the program a couple times (not for
long) on the Outdoor Channel,  mostly it seemed to be about the in-lines,
stainless steel guns with scopes, and hunting out of a tree stand... didn't
see a flintlock, or anything to do with the fur trade, or History. Your basic
infomercial....

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: A fishing reference
Date: 13 Aug 2001 18:30:30 -0600

Paul wrote
   a.  Is anyone aware of any reference to mountain men carrying =
fishing in their gear?



From Wilson Price Hunt's journal pg 3 as it downloads from Deans site on
my puter:
  We saw two bears that we could not get near, but we caught some fish
that were much like herring.

We don't know what they caught those fish with but I can guess.

In the spring of 1830 Ferris who is near the Platte and Missouri and on
his way to the mountains says:

As for ourselves having a long holiday before us, we employed our time
in various ways, as hunting, fishing, and story telling, and making
necessary preparations for continuing our route when our horses should
have become sufficiently recruited to warrant them in a serviceable
condition

Zenas Lenard also refers to fishing at the mouth of the Laramies I
believe it was about June of 32 but it is hard for me to tell years in
some of these journals.  Anyway pg 13

After remaining here 3 days together, hunting, fishing, and indulging in
other amusements.

Just a few referances, Paul, that may help you.

Wynn Ormond



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzle Blasts
Date: 13 Aug 2001 20:31:13 EDT


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If you missed Muzzle blasts on TV you did not miss much. It was all inlines
and had no touch with traditional ways and only showed how to bastardize our
sport. Sorry I put it on line
Watch your Back trail Roadkill

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>If you missed Muzzle blasts on TV you did not miss much. It was all inlines
<BR>and had no touch with traditional ways and only showed how to bastardize our
<BR>sport. Sorry I put it on line
<BR>Watch your Back trail Roadkill</FONT></HTML>

--part1_86.e1ab11c.28a9cb51_boundary--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Terry C. Johnston fairwell
Date: 13 Aug 2001 20:40:04 EDT


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I thought the list might be interested on the happenings at the Fort west of
Denver Saturday night. I talked to a group at the Rocky Mt. College
Rendezvous on their way to the Terry Johnston event. Roadkill

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I thought the list might be interested on the happenings at the Fort west of
<BR>Denver Saturday night. I talked to a group at the Rocky Mt. College
<BR>Rendezvous on their way to the Terry Johnston event. Roadkill</FONT></HTML>

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Mark
Thought you and the list would enjoy a little recap of the Terry C.
Johnston Farewell Dinner that was held Saturday evening, August 11.

Eighty people gathered to honor Terry at a dinner at Sam Arnold's The
Fort Restaurant in Morrison, Colo.  The 80 folks were friends and fans
of Terry, including Ian Patrick of Nederland, CO, John Ludzador,
Loveland, CO and Bill Wagers who have been for years rendezvous friends
of Terry.

John, knew Terry before the first book Carry the Wind was published.  He
told a story about Terry showing up at a rendezvous with his buckskins
still wrapped in a plastic and he and Bill immediately throwing mud
balls at Terry's clean buckskins.

Another person told a story about buying a car from Terry just after the
first book was published and giving him a copy of Carry the Wind.

Other's told of their encounters with Terry on the Mountain Man
historical tour.

A number of items were auctioned as fund raisers for the Terry C.
Johnston scholarship fund, the Custer Battlefield land fund and the
American Cancer Society.  Close to $2000 was raised.

Several times a jug of an unknown liquid was passed about the tables of
participants.  I can speak with personal experience that whatever that
liquid was it left a warm spot in my heart and a new animation in my
voice during dinner and the ceremonies that followed.

I received permission from Vanette Johnston, Terry's widow, to contact A
and E Network's Biography to suggest to them that they do a biography on
Terry.  Anyone who has any contacts there please have them get in touch
with me at [e-mail].

Those who would like to donate to the three funds established in Terry's
name can contact the following:

1. Terry C. Johnston Memorial Scholarship Fund, Montana State
University-Billings Foundation, 1500 North 30th Street, Billings, MT
59101; phone [phone];
2. National Colorectal Cancer Research Alliance, c/o  Entertainment
Industry
Foundation, 11132 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 401, Studio City, CA
91604-3156;
phone [phone]; donation web site
nccra.org/how_to_help/.donation.cfm;
3. Custer Battlefield Preservation Committee, P.O. Box 7, Hardin, MT
59034;
phone
1-406-665-1876; fax [phone]; e-mail [e-mail].

Terry, before he died had asked that a celebration be held after he died
rather than sadness.  Certainly we had tears for him but also shared the
joy of knowing him and enjoying his books which will live for ever--all
31 of them, the last arriving earlier this month.

Jim Wirshborn


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: rawhide lashing
Date: 13 Aug 2001 23:19:41 EDT

Hallo the List,

I just finished building a willow pack frame that I glued together and lashed
with rawhide. Anyone know of a good way to "waterproof" the rawhide? I don't
think they had varnish in the mountains, so I'm thinking mebbe bees wax and
bear grease...anything to keep the rawhide from getting loose. This might be
a good question for you, John Kramer.

Ymos,
Magpie

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rawhide lashing
Date: 14 Aug 2001 02:04:25 EDT


In a message dated 8/14/1 4:42:25 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<<a good way to "waterproof" the rawhide? I don't think they had varnish in
the mountains, >>

Reg Laubin sicked me on to using coats of prickley pear juice as the Indians
had done before the arrival of the white man.  Not as satifactory as spray
laquor, but useful and 100% authentic.

Richard James

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Terry Landis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: rawhide lashing
Date: 14 Aug 2001 15:55:31 -0700

bear grease is water soluble and melts when you breathe on it. pine pitch ,
bees wax and linseed oil are a good combo.


> [Original Message]
> From: <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Date: 8/13/2001 4:19:41 PM
> Subject: MtMan-List: rawhide lashing
>
> Hallo the List,
>
> I just finished building a willow pack frame that I glued together and
lashed
> with rawhide. Anyone know of a good way to "waterproof" the rawhide? I
don't
> think they had varnish in the mountains, so I'm thinking mebbe bees wax
and
> bear grease...anything to keep the rawhide from getting loose. This might
be
> a good question for you, John Kramer.
>
> Ymos,
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


--- Terry Landis
--- [e-mail]
--amm 1789



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Douglas Hepner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rawhide lashing
Date: 15 Aug 2001 20:00:14 -0500

What about hoof glue?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:19 PM


> Hallo the List,
>
> I just finished building a willow pack frame that I glued together and
lashed
> with rawhide. Anyone know of a good way to "waterproof" the rawhide? I
don't
> think they had varnish in the mountains, so I'm thinking mebbe bees wax
and
> bear grease...anything to keep the rawhide from getting loose. This might
be
> a good question for you, John Kramer.
>
> Ymos,
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: rawhide lashing
Date: 15 Aug 2001 21:24:48 EDT


In a message dated 8/15/01 6:14:21 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< What about hoof glue? >>

Naw..... I thought about that and hide glue (near same stuff I think) but the
glue itself will dissolve in water. I know cause I used it to glue feathers
on my arrars once, and in a good rain they all fell off....

Ymos,
Magpie

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 15 Aug 2001 21:29:08 EDT

Anyone know how long brass grommets have been around? Sure takes me a long
time sewing a reinforcement around a canvas tie hole....

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 15 Aug 2001 21:01:08 -0500

Magpie
I have heard folks more authoritative them I say that an iron ring sewn into
a piece of canvas served as a grommet.  I suppose the tedious nature of
sewing grommets by hand caused the invention of the two piece, pressed brass
grommet as we know it.

The Webster's 1828 Dictionary has only 3 references to "grommet".  See
below.  The very word seems to be nautical in origin.
Lanney

GROMMET, n. Among seamen, a ring formed of a strand of rope laid in three
times round; used to fasten the upper edge of a sail to its stay.

HANK, n.
1.  A skein of thread; as much thread as is tied together; a tie.
2.  In ships. a wooden ring fixed to a stay, to confine the stay-sails; used
in the place of a grommet.
3.  A rope or withy for fastening a gate.


TRAV'ELER, n.
1.  One who travels in any way.  Job:31.
2.  One who visits foreign countries.
3.  In ships, an iron thimble or thimbles with a rope spliced round them,
forming a kind of tail or a species of grommet.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 8:29 PM


> Anyone know how long brass grommets have been around? Sure takes me a long
> time sewing a reinforcement around a canvas tie hole....
>
> Ymos,
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 15 Aug 2001 19:16:33 -0700

Magpie,

If you sew in a non chromed iron ring with tread to form the grommets, we
will call that good enough. <G>

Capt. Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:01 PM


> Magpie
> I have heard folks more authoritative them I say that an iron ring sewn
into
> a piece of canvas served as a grommet.  I suppose the tedious nature of
> sewing grommets by hand caused the invention of the two piece, pressed
brass
> grommet as we know it.
>
> The Webster's 1828 Dictionary has only 3 references to "grommet".  See
> below.  The very word seems to be nautical in origin.
> Lanney
>
> GROMMET, n. Among seamen, a ring formed of a strand of rope laid in three
> times round; used to fasten the upper edge of a sail to its stay.
>
> HANK, n.
> 1.  A skein of thread; as much thread as is tied together; a tie.
> 2.  In ships. a wooden ring fixed to a stay, to confine the stay-sails;
used
> in the place of a grommet.
> 3.  A rope or withy for fastening a gate.
>
>
> TRAV'ELER, n.
> 1.  One who travels in any way.  Job:31.
> 2.  One who visits foreign countries.
> 3.  In ships, an iron thimble or thimbles with a rope spliced round them,
> forming a kind of tail or a species of grommet.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 8:29 PM
> Subject: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
>
>
> > Anyone know how long brass grommets have been around? Sure takes me a
long
> > time sewing a reinforcement around a canvas tie hole....
> >
> > Ymos,
> > Magpie
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
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>


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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 15 Aug 2001 19:08:28 -0700

Not long enough. Keep sewing pilgrim.

Capt. Lahti'

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:29 PM


> Anyone know how long brass grommets have been around? Sure takes me a long
> time sewing a reinforcement around a canvas tie hole....
>
> Ymos,
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: "Randal Bublitz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 15 Aug 2001 21:6:37 -0700

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Try a musket ball tied into the corner of the tarp with a thong...?
hardtack







If you sew in a non chromed iron ring with tread to form the grommets,
we

will call that good enough.







  I have heard folks more authoritative them I say that an iron ring
sewn

into

  a piece of canvas served as a grommet.



--- Randal Bublitz

--- [e-mail]

We have NOT inherited the Earth from our Fathers, we are Borrowing it from
our Children

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1251">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>Try a musket ball tied into the corner of the tarp with a thong...?  hardtack</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"> </DIV><FONT size=2>
<P>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you sew in a non chromed iron ring with tread to form the grommets, we</DIV>
<DIV>will call that good enough. <G></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>> I have heard folks more authoritative them I say that an iron ring sewn</DIV>
<DIV>into</DIV>
<DIV>> a piece of canvas served as a grommet.
<P></P></FONT>
<P></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>--- Randal Bublitz</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></DIV>
<DIV>We have NOT inherited the Earth from our Fathers, we are Borrowing it from our Children</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 15 Aug 2001 23:26:04 -0600

i have seen grommets, [one piece kind] on mochia's on saddles dated in the
1850's
late for our interests, but still note worthy.
Tom,  poison river party pilgrim, Timpanogos mess
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:29 PM


> Anyone know how long brass grommets have been around? Sure takes me a long
> time sewing a reinforcement around a canvas tie hole....
>
> Ymos,
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 16 Aug 2001 11:05:25 -0700

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The musket ball trick does work but it bunches up the cloth and makes it =
so it does not lay out as smooth and voluminous as it otherwise would. =
If your willing to live with that, I have a trick that may be better.

Without looking for a musket ball or small rock (which will also work) =
try this:

Tie a pinch of cloth right at the corner with a simple overhand knot. =
Fold that "corner" and knot back on itself towards the center of the =
tarp and tie another over hand knot. This puts much less strain on the =
cloth than the ball or pebble and is just as secure and adds no weigh.

If you want to do it in a "seaman" like manner, use a clove hitch =
instead of the over hand knot but it probably is not necessary. A clove =
hitch might be easier to untie if the line is stretched hard and wet. =
Try it for yourself to see which you prefer.=20

I prefer to sew in double tags of small line or webbing at corners and =
various handy locations around the tarp. That allows plenty of places to =
tie off to without bunching up the tarp. If your using an oil cloth such =
as Mark Baker shows how to make, do your sewing first and provide plenty =
of area at each sewn anchor point to take strain on the material as it =
is more susceptible to ripping regardless of what you do unless the =
material is quit heavy to start with. Then you will find that adding the =
linseed oil and pigment will make it too heavy to carry anyway.=20

For Magpie who has already made his "oil cloth", using the method I =
suggested that leaves out the musket ball or pebble is probably the best =
way to go if it is too late to sew in some ties. Have fun Magpie and =
will I see your new oil cloth at our Fall Hunt in Sept.? Hope you can =
make it.=20

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The musket ball trick does work but it =
bunches up=20
the cloth and makes it so it does not lay out as smooth and voluminous =
as it=20
otherwise would. If your willing to live with that, I have a trick that =
may be=20
better.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Without looking for a musket ball or =
small rock=20
(which will also work) try this:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tie a pinch of cloth right at the =
corner with a=20
simple overhand knot. Fold that "corner" and knot back on itself towards =
the=20
center of the tarp and tie another over hand knot. This puts much less =
strain on=20
the cloth than the ball or pebble and is just as secure and adds no=20
weigh.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you want to do it in a "seaman" like =
manner, use=20
a clove hitch instead of the over hand knot but it probably is not =
necessary. A=20
clove hitch might be easier to untie if the line is stretched hard and =
wet. Try=20
it for yourself to see which you prefer. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I prefer to sew in double tags of small =
line or=20
webbing at corners and various handy locations around the tarp. That =
allows=20
plenty of places to tie off to without bunching up the tarp. If your =
using an=20
oil cloth such as Mark Baker shows how to make, do your sewing first and =
provide=20
plenty of area at each sewn anchor point to take strain on the material =
as it is=20
more susceptible to ripping regardless of what you do unless the =
material is=20
quit heavy to start with. Then you will find that adding the linseed oil =
and=20
pigment will make it too heavy to carry anyway. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For Magpie who has already made his =
"oil cloth",=20
using the method I suggested that leaves out the musket ball or pebble =
is=20
probably the best way to go if it is too late to sew in some ties. Have =
fun=20
Magpie and will I see your new oil cloth at our Fall Hunt in Sept.? Hope =
you can=20
make it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>YMOS<BR>Capt. Lahti'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 16 Aug 2001 23:30:38 EDT


In a message dated 8/15/01 7:18:02 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Not long enough. Keep sewing pilgrim.


Capt. Lahti'

 >>

Haaaaaa..... Actually, I gave up on the "grommet" idea, and now I'm just
sewing leather thongs (wangs?) on the bag so I can tie it to the pack...
works good, last long time.

Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Skip Brass grommets Do Loops with Fabric Strips
Date: 17 Aug 2001 00:08:50 EDT

One idea that I have seen employed and employed successfully is to sew strips
of canvas (or whatever your tarp is made of) to the tarp to form a loop.
Slip the rope through that..also, it accepts almost any size rope that you
will be using!!!  Goes a lot faster that reinforcint grommet holes I can tell
you!!! One about every 24-36 inches should do.

-C.Kent

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets/oil cloth
Date: 17 Aug 2001 00:22:04 EDT


In a message dated 8/16/01 11:03:46 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< For Magpie who has already made his "oil cloth", using the method I
suggested that leaves out the musket ball or pebble is probably the best way
to go if it is too late to sew in some ties. >>

With the oil cloth, I sewed in web, reinforced, loops at all four corners,
and two more midway on the two sides that meet the ground. I also put a loop
in at the center.... and to take the sag out of the fly,  the rear stake I
leave about three feet long, and just run a 3/8" rope from the one 6' front
pole, through the middle loop and tie it tight to the rear stake. Simple set
up, and can get by with four stakes, and one 6' pole....

I ran some tests on the sample piece of oil cloth I made. I got it to burn
with a match, but if I turned the piece flame up like a candle, the fire
would go out. The edge did glow like a cigarette though. I expected an
explosion from from all that I have heard! Mebbe it's all the iron oxide that
slows to burn rate....
I did a couple off poke /tear tests... The material cannot be hand torn at
the hem....it will tear rather easy on a raw edge. I tried poking a sharp
stick through the material and, with effort, could poke a hole....but then I
could poke a hole with canvas too. It's pretty strong.
The tarp is water proof! I ran a hard spray from a garden hose and could not
force water through the material...
Bottom line.....unless I'm missing something, this is a good, cheap,
primitive camp. If it comes unglued, Capt Lahti will be the first to let you
all know.....<G>
I remain,
Magpie




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From: "Daniel L. Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 19 Aug 2001 09:35:57 -0600

<html><head><meta Name='keywords' Content='commtouch, pronto, mail, free email, free, branded, web based, free web based email, communications, internet, software, advertising banners, e-mail, free software'></head><body   ><div align='left'><font   ><blockquote><blockquote><TT>Hey Lanney & Magpie,<BR>
<BR>
If you ever get to either coast look up one of<BR>
many sailing ship museums, they have lots of<BR>
"grommets" seen in the sails, most of the older<BR>
ones are like your post says Lanney; "a wooden<BR>
ring fixed to a stay, to confine the stay-sails;<BR>
used in the place of a grommet", let me add that<BR>
brass, iron and copper rings are also seen as<BR>
grommets. I was told depending on the owner of<BR>
the ship - would determine what material was used<BR>
(English, Spanish, Dutch & so on), of course we<BR>
the colonies where using the cheapest material<BR>
available because of our funds in the early years.<BR>
<BR>
At Valley Forge I have seen iron rings from<BR>
Officers tents that have been recovered in the<BR>
many digs, they would have been "whipped" in on<BR>
the material. <BR>
<BR>
Here's an interesting item about the grommets,<BR>
it's funny how modern tent makers today over-look<BR>
what many of the original makers did in beefing<BR>
up the corners and other areas where one would<BR>
find some of these rings. The extra material at<BR>
the corner is a half circle going from edge to<BR>
edge, not the 90 degree point we see today; that<BR>
point is pulling from one spot and will tear out<BR>
in time, where the rounded one is pulling all the<BR>
way around.<BR>
<BR>
Lanney have you heard from Buck lately !<BR>
<BR>
Later.<BR>
Concho.<BR>
-----------------------<BR>
Magpie<BR>
I have heard folks more authoritative them I say<BR>
that an iron ring sewn into a piece of canvas<BR>
served as a grommet.  I suppose the tedious<BR>
nature of sewing grommets by hand caused the<BR>
invention of the two piece, pressed brass grommet<BR>
as we know it.<BR>
<BR>
The Webster's 1828 Dictionary has only 3<BR>
references to "grommet".  See<BR>
below.  The very word seems to be nautical in origin.<BR>
Lanney<BR>
<BR>
GROMMET, n. Among seamen, a ring formed of a<BR>
strand of rope laid in three times round; used to<BR>
fasten the upper edge of a sail to its stay.<BR>
<BR>
HANK, n.<BR>
1.  A skein of thread; as much thread as is tied<BR>
together; a tie.<BR>
2.  In ships. a wooden ring fixed to a stay, to<BR>
confine the stay-sails; used in the place of a<BR>
grommet.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
----- Original Message -----<BR>
<BR>
> Anyone know how long brass grommets have been<BR>
around? Sure takes me a long time sewing a<BR>
reinforcement around a canvas tie hole....<BR>
><BR>
> Ymos,<BR>
> Magpie<BR>
> ----------------------<BR>
<BR>
</TT><br><br><br><br><br><br><font><p align=left><br><TT>Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com </TT></blockquote></blockquote></div></font></body></html>

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 19 Aug 2001 11:38:26 -0500

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Concho
I haven't talked to Buck in a year or more.....since I bought a small =
item from him.  I haven't seen him since ' 98.  I expect he and =
everybody else will be at the nationals next May.  You coming?
That is good info on the half moon of fabric at the corners to reinforce =
grommets.  Makes plenty of sense.
later=20
Lanney

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Concho</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I haven't talked to Buck in a year or more.....since =
I bought=20
a small item from him.  I haven't seen him since ' 98.  I =
expect=20
he and everybody else will be at the nationals next May.  You=20
coming?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That is good info on the half moon of fabric at the =
corners to=20
reinforce grommets.  Makes plenty of sense.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>later </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lanney</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: Kierst Family <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A fishing reference
Date: 19 Aug 2001 11:24:17 -0600

>Thanks for the idea! I'm writeing a fictional book about the fur trade
>that covers alot of history and just decided to add that bit that you
>mentioned. So far it has 139 characters, 95 of wich were real. Thanks
>again.
Dirty Shirt

   2.    "One trapping brigade, after  weeks of near starvation in the
southwestern deserts, arrived at the Snake River  where trout were
plentiful.  They had no hooks but one of  them........discovered a large
pin......(which he) ....fashioned into a hook, it  caught enough large
trout on live bait to feed the  brigade."       a.   Can anyone cite  me a
book or other reference which would identify this party, the date,  etc.
Thanks in advance.   Regards,   Paul
>
>



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From: "Terry Landis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Dave Petterson for North West Brigade Booshway
Date: 19 Aug 2001 16:17:17 -0700

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  Here is a letter from Dave. Please pass this on to anyone with out e-mail
in the North West Brigade.

 Thanks, brothers
   Dave Petterson

  cc Ephrim

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------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0--


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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 20 Aug 2001 03:58:02 -0500

Capt'n,

Chastise this boy.

He strikes me as essentially lazy!  (Not necessarily a bad thing)

Or fixated on a modernist concept.  (Most often a bad thing)

What was it Hardtack said?  Sounds easy to me.

John...

At 07:08 PM 8/15/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Not long enough. Keep sewing pilgrim.
>
>Capt. Lahti'
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:29 PM
>Subject: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
>
>
> > Anyone know how long brass grommets have been around? Sure takes me a long
> > time sewing a reinforcement around a canvas tie hole....
> >
> > Ymos,
> > Magpie
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


----------------------
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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 20 Aug 2001 12:50:23 -0700

Brother John,

He is honest enough to ask and foolish enough to want to play with us. We
cut him no slack and he tow's the line. I suppose I did pull him up short in
perhaps a nice way but will ride him hard and put him away wet when we get
together this Oct. to make meat (provided the woods ain't all ashes by
then). He just keeps coming back for more so we'll keep him. <G>

Capt. Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 1:58 AM


> Capt'n,
>
> Chastise this boy.
>
> He strikes me as essentially lazy!  (Not necessarily a bad thing)
>
> Or fixated on a modernist concept.  (Most often a bad thing)
>
> What was it Hardtack said?  Sounds easy to me.
>
> John...
>
> At 07:08 PM 8/15/01 -0700, you wrote:
> >Not long enough. Keep sewing pilgrim.
> >
> >Capt. Lahti'
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:29 PM
> >Subject: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
> >
> >
> > > Anyone know how long brass grommets have been around? Sure takes me a
long
> > > time sewing a reinforcement around a canvas tie hole....
> > >
> > > Ymos,
> > > Magpie
> > >
> > > ----------------------
> > > hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> > >
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
> John Kramer  <[e-mail]>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Terry Landis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Just saying hello, Terry
Date: 20 Aug 2001 20:26:45 -0700


Terry, How's everything going?  This is "Big Dave" From the nationals. Just
wanted to say hello and to say it was good seeing you again.... Dave
> [Original Message]
> From: <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Date: 7/29/2001 4:28:46 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Clarks Sign Language
>
> We being the amm. our officaly recomended book on
>   sign is tompkins .we (AMM) seem to have problems
>   interpiting one book let alone 2.
>                                           TWO BEAR
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


--- Terry Landis
--- [e-mail]
--amm 1789



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Just saying hello, Terry
Date: 21 Aug 2001 02:19:53 EDT

Brother Dave,  Glad to hear from you and i allso was glad
              to see you. i wish you could make it to the
              Mission doings .maybe the one in march.
              keep in contact bro . terry two bear @
              aol.com.
                                          Your Bro
                                         Two Bear

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20Brass=20grommets?=
Date: 21 Aug 2001 02:52:51 EDT


In a message dated 8/20/01 2:01:11 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Capt'n,

Chastise this boy.

He strikes me as essentially lazy!  >>

Haaaaaaa! .....naw, not quite lazy, although it sometimes takes me awhile to=
=20
git my dead butt outta bed on occassion. Truth is...if you saw how handy I a=
m=20
at sewin, you'd probably recommend the grommets. Last pair of mocassins I=20
sewd I near bled to death with all the pokes and such....they did look kinda=
=20
"camo" though. with all the blood stains.
Most the wimmins think I'm a vagrant with the clothes I sew up, and some eve=
n=20
give me money to buy a decent shirt.....nope.....I ain't no seamster.... <G>

I remain,=20
Magpie


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20Brass=20grommets?=
Date: 21 Aug 2001 02:57:25 EDT


In a message dated 8/20/01 12:49:02 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< He just keeps coming back for more so we'll keep him. <G>


Capt. Lahti'

 >>

Thanks for that "veiled" vote of confidence....Capt. Your just trying to=20
sweet talk me into showing ya where all the elk are that I found....<G>

Magpie

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From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Boys Clothing
Date: 21 Aug 2001 06:05:05 -0600

I am curious about both authentic and acceptable clothing for boys.  My
oldest is
five so that would be a good place to start.  Is there much or any
documentation available for what those half breed brats wore?

Wynn Ormond



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From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 21 Aug 2001 07:22:40 -0700

Magpie,
Gentelmen, don't pick on my litle buddy. Magpie's are highly entertaining.
YMOS
Ole # 718
----------
>From: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
>Date: Mon, Aug 20, 2001, 11:52 PM
>

>
>In a message dated 8/20/01 2:01:11 AM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><< Capt'n,
>
>Chastise this boy.
>
>He strikes me as essentially lazy!  >>
>
>Haaaaaaa! .....naw, not quite lazy, although it sometimes takes me awhile to
>git my dead butt outta bed on occassion. Truth is...if you saw how handy I am
>at sewin, you'd probably recommend the grommets. Last pair of mocassins I
>sewd I near bled to death with all the pokes and such....they did look kinda
>"camo" though. with all the blood stains.
>Most the wimmins think I'm a vagrant with the clothes I sew up, and some even
>give me money to buy a decent shirt.....nope.....I ain't no seamster.... <G>
>
>I remain,
>Magpie
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 21 Aug 2001 09:27:00 -0400

"Magpie's are highly entertaining."


And tasty, if boiled long enough..'
D


"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it to seriously"


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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20Brass=20grommets?=
Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:35:26 -0500

At 02:52 AM 8/21/01 -0400, you wrote:

>Haaaaaaa! .....naw, not quite lazy, although it sometimes takes me awhile to
>git my dead butt outta bed on occassion. Truth is...if you saw how handy I am
>at sewin, you'd probably recommend the grommets. Last pair of mocassins I
>sewd I near bled to death with all the pokes and such....they did look kinda
>"camo" though. with all the blood stains.
>Most the wimmins think I'm a vagrant with the clothes I sew up, and some even
>give me money to buy a decent shirt.....nope.....I ain't no seamster.... <G>
>
>I remain,
>Magpie


Flesh offerings are of the period.

John...


The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit
the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms.  History teaches that all
conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have
prepared their own downfall by doing so.
         -- Hitler, April 11 1942, revealing the real agenda of "gun control"


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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:39:02 -0500

At 09:27 AM 8/21/01 -0400, you wrote:
>"Magpie's are highly entertaining."
>
>
>And tasty, if boiled long enough..'
>D

My experience is that under no circumstance can you get hungry enough to
eat magpie;  phtuuii, spit, spit, spit.

John...


"Never ascribe to malice that which is
adequately explained by incompetence."
                            Napoleon Bonaparte.


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 21 Aug 2001 18:44:00 EDT


In a message dated 8/21/01 9:45:22 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< My experience is that under no circumstance can you get hungry enough to
eat magpie;  phtuuii, spit, spit, spit.
 >>

Thanks John.....I'm feelin warm and fuzzy...<G>

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets/now bs
Date: 21 Aug 2001 15:49:00 -0700

Magpie,

If you don't show us where the elk are, likely is you ain't gonna get on
account as we will likely have to shoot it for you. Beings how your eye
sight is so poor for sewing and such. Now that I think about it, how come
they let you teamster them big sky birds if your sight is so poorly?

Capt. Lahti'



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 21 Aug 2001 19:00:30 EDT


--part1_86.e8a959e.28b4420e_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Magpie
I have Country Music CD with a song about the coyote (magpie) of the sky
Keep your nose to the wind
Mark "Roadkill" Loader

--part1_86.e8a959e.28b4420e_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Magpie
<BR>I have Country Music CD with a song about the coyote (magpie) of the sky
<BR>Keep your nose to the wind
<BR>Mark "Roadkill" Loader</FONT></HTML>

--part1_86.e8a959e.28b4420e_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets/now bs
Date: 21 Aug 2001 19:01:25 EDT


In a message dated 8/21/01 3:46:30 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Beings how your eye

sight is so poor for sewing and such. Now that I think about it, how come

they let you teamster them big sky birds if your sight is so poorly? >>

Dinna say I was blind!  ....jest can't see where the needle is comin through
the leather! Hell....I can even see the tiny hole where I was poked...once I
wipe the blood away...<G> I'll show you boys where the elk are cause I'm
gonna need some packers to git mine back to camp...

Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Riverton Rendezvous
Date: 21 Aug 2001 19:16:43 EDT


--part1_62.12e292ef.28b445db_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello the camp
Stopped at the site this summer and did the river-stone walk. I thought it
was great. Lots of information and a great way to go back in time. For those
who have not you should. It is a walking trail on the old rendezvous site
with river stones engraved with the names of those that were at the original
rendezvous a plaque near each stone with a quote by that person about the
rendezvous. Who put this together and did the engraving.
Let no Stone go unturned
Mark "Roadkill" Loader

--part1_62.12e292ef.28b445db_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hello the camp
<BR>Stopped at the site this summer and did the river-stone walk. I thought it
<BR>was great. Lots of information and a great way to go back in time. For those
<BR>who have not you should. It is a walking trail on the old rendezvous site
<BR>with river stones engraved with the names of those that were at the original
<BR>rendezvous a plaque near each stone with a quote by that person about the
<BR>rendezvous. Who put this together and did the engraving.
<BR>Let no Stone go unturned
<BR>Mark "Roadkill" Loader</FONT></HTML>

--part1_62.12e292ef.28b445db_boundary--

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass grommets
Date: 21 Aug 2001 20:21:16 -0400

"I'm feelin warm and fuzzy...<G>"

Magpie,
 That "fuzzy" is down that hasn't been singed and the warm is a cook
fire..<G>
D




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From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Boys Clothing
Date: 21 Aug 2001 21:23:35 -0600

hi wynn;
i'd start em out with leggings and a breech clout and a long drop sleeve
shirt.  leggins for a boy or boys wouldn't take to much leather or time to
make.
tom
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 6:05 AM


> I am curious about both authentic and acceptable clothing for boys.  My
> oldest is
> five so that would be a good place to start.  Is there much or any
> documentation available for what those half breed brats wore?
>
> Wynn Ormond
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Riverton Rendezvous
Date: 22 Aug 2001 00:17:44 EDT

I'm not sure who did the stonework, but there is a Riverton Rendezvous Assoc.
that probably financed it.  They hold a ronnyvoo every 4th of July week.
Riverton, besides being the site of the 1830 and 1830 rendezvous' is also
home to Jake Korell, the most genuine trapper/packer/Indian trader/mountain
man still living and breathing. (Just my opinion, of course, but I'll stick
to it)

John Sweet

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Riverton Rendezvous
Date: 22 Aug 2001 00:57:24 EDT

1830 and 1838 it should have said

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: m mitchell <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #844
Date: 22 Aug 2001 06:51:36 -0700 (PDT)

--0-1615961418-998488296=:8781
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline


to: hist_text-digest
<[e-mail]>


Please Post:

Does anyone have an address or know "Three Fingers"?

I met him at Polebridge last month.

He took some photos of the archery competition that I
would like to obtain.

YMHOS, Michel



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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--0-1615961418-998488296=:8781--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Boys Clothing
Date: 22 Aug 2001 15:12:32 EDT

In a message dated 8/21/01 7:57:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< half breed brats wore >>
I have seen references to children that young wearing older shirts tied at
the waist and that come to their knees in some camps.  Can't remember exactly
where...will have to recheck that source.

-C.Kent

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Oak Tree "Galls"
Date: 22 Aug 2001 18:32:01 -0700 (PDT)

Hello the fire;
 Anyone out there know how the "galls" from the Oak
tree were used in tanning ?
What stage of the development of the gall was used?
Fresh or dried ?? Or both ? I picked up about 2 gallon
today.There are a lot more still in the trees.
 I also (in the back of my mind) think I remember my
Granddad saying they were used as a dye "kinda" like
Walnuts.
 Any help ???
thanks, George

=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Oak Tree "Galls"
Date: 22 Aug 2001 21:16:13 -0500

George
Go to Google.com (the best search engine I know of) and enter a search for
(don't forget the quotes) "oak galls".  I got 760 hits, including several
for making ink and some others for making dyes.  I did NOT look at all 760
hits so happy hunting.  I cut/pasted a couple of the hits below.
YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff

Re: Home-made inks
... on the surface. Tannic acid soaked out of oak galls, combined with
ferrous sulfate
and gum arabic, makes a brown to black ink. The essential chemistry of this
...
palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/bookarts/1997/
10/msg00274.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages

Bugs n Galls
... many galls are high in protein and have been utilized for livestock
feed. Tannic
acid in oak galls has found uses in tanning leather, dyes, inks and
medicines.
www.dcnr.state.pa.us/kids/bugsgalls.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
Black in Period
... Black ink as used in illuminations was made with the combination of oak
galls, water
and iron salts (ferrous sulphate). To make it into ink, a few spoonfuls of
...
www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/5459/bliaut4.html - 12k - Cached - Similar
pages

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:32 PM


> Hello the fire;
>  Anyone out there know how the "galls" from the Oak
> tree were used in tanning ?
> What stage of the development of the gall was used?
> Fresh or dried ?? Or both ? I picked up about 2 gallon
> today.There are a lot more still in the trees.
>  I also (in the back of my mind) think I remember my
> Granddad saying they were used as a dye "kinda" like
> Walnuts.
>  Any help ???
> thanks, George
>
> =====
> George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
> Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Oak Tree "Galls"
Date: 22 Aug 2001 20:05:49 -0700 (PDT)

If this is a double, I appologise! The first one
didn't seem to get through.
 I am wondering if anyone knows how to use the "galls"
from Oak trees for tanning?
 I think I remember my Grandad telling they were used
in tanning, and (I think) as a dye.
 My grandkids and I gathered about a gallon and a half
today and there are still some in the trees for future
picking.
 Any "thoughts' ????
 George

=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under
Date: 23 Aug 2001 18:20:38 EDT


--part1_64.12431125.28b6dbb6_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
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Hello the camp
Next years national will be on our new land hosted by the Baker party and it=
=20
looks like it will be Memorial Day week. It might be appropriate to remember=
=20
AMM Brothers that have gone under at that time. We are asking your help to=20
make a list:
Name, camp name, AMM number, age, and year of passing.
Bring in the wood and help the Baker Party

Mark "Roadkill" Loader =A0=A0

--part1_64.12431125.28b6dbb6_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2>Hello the camp
<BR>Next years national will be on our new land hosted by the Baker party an=
d it=20
<BR>looks like it will be Memorial Day week. It might be appropriate to reme=
mber=20
<BR>AMM Brothers that have gone under at that time. We are asking your help=20=
to=20
<BR>make a list:
<BR>Name, camp name, AMM number, age, and year of passing.
<BR>Bring in the wood and help the Baker Party
<BR>
<BR>Mark "Roadkill" Loader =A0=A0</FONT></HTML>

--part1_64.12431125.28b6dbb6_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kierst Family <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oak Tree "Galls"
Date: 23 Aug 2001 20:08:27 -0600

Dont take it personle if everyons alittle reluctant, Gorge. I think we're
all still getting over the walnut dye fiasco wich went on for (or atleast
felt like) acouple hundred e-mails. If I'd known what an up roar it caused
I might have thought twice about posting it.
Dirty Shirt

>If this is a double, I appologise! The first one
>didn't seem to get through.
> I am wondering if anyone knows how to use the "galls"
>from Oak trees for tanning?
> I think I remember my Grandad telling they were used
>in tanning, and (I think) as a dye.
> My grandkids and I gathered about a gallon and a half
>today and there are still some in the trees for future
>picking.
> Any "thoughts' ????
> George
>
>=====
>George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
>Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>----------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kim & Jen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Riverton Rendezvous
Date: 23 Aug 2001 21:37:07 -0600

Hello,
yes the 1838 Rendezvous Assc. in Riverton comissioned the work with the
stones. My husband and I are both on the Board of Directors there and I was
acting Segundo this year since my husband became very ill and could not be
there most of the time. Thank you for your good words, it is always good to
read that ones work is appreciated.  The site is something special and open
all year long. One does not have to wait to go there till Rondy-time, if one
contacts the Association, we always welcome visitors there.  There are no
facillities during the year, but it is a very good place to just camp out
for a day or more.
At nights, one can actually feel the spirits of the old ones there, fair
warning though: Joe Meek is very much alive with his tricks and jokes there.
As for Jake, yes he is still alive and well, going on 88 years now, still
trapping and giving the rest of us hives from worrien about him.
Anyone interested in joining our little Association is more then welcome to
do so. We are at the beginning stages of building an honest to god Trading
post near the site also.  We working hard on that protject and are hopefull
the by next years Rondy we are well into the project.
Thank you again for your kind words
         Jenaka

>
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:16:43 EDT
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: MtMan-List: Riverton Rendezvous
>
> - --part1_62.12e292ef.28b445db_boundary
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Hello the camp
> Stopped at the site this summer and did the river-stone walk. I thought it
> was great. Lots of information and a great way to go back in time. For
those
> who have not you should. It is a walking trail on the old rendezvous site
> with river stones engraved with the names of those that were at the
original
> rendezvous a plaque near each stone with a quote by that person about the
> rendezvous. Who put this together and did the engraving.
> Let no Stone go unturned
> Mark "Roadkill" Loader
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:17:44 EDT
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Riverton Rendezvous
>
> I'm not sure who did the stonework, but there is a Riverton Rendezvous
Assoc.
> that probably financed it.  They hold a ronnyvoo every 4th of July week.
> Riverton, besides being the site of the 1830 and 1830 rendezvous' is also
> home to Jake Korell, the most genuine trapper/packer/Indian
trader/mountain
> man still living and breathing. (Just my opinion, of course, but I'll
stick
> to it)
>
> John Sweet
>



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Wehrman <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: hats
Date: 24 Aug 2001 06:23:41 -0700 (PDT)

A Texas Panhandle cowboy once told me that a wool hat like my Missouri River
Brand Jim Bridger Mountain Man hat was actually cooler in the summer that straw
cowboy hats.  Come to think of it, I have seen lots of real cowboys with wool
hats on in the summer.  Does that make sense?  Off hand, it seems like a wool
hat would be best for winter and a straw hat best for summer.

Thanks!

Mike Wehrman
[e-mail]

__________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under
Date: 24 Aug 2001 07:42:59 -0700

> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3081483780_89832_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Mark,
If all members of this list will e-mail me the names of those that have
"Died" I will update the Data-Base and make it available. All you need to
give me is there full name. I have there number's.
YMOS
Ole # 718
----------


Hello the camp
Next years national will be on our new land hosted by the Baker party and i=
t

looks like it will be Memorial Day week. It might be appropriate to remembe=
r

AMM Brothers that have gone under at that time. We are asking your help to
make a list:
Name, camp name, AMM number, age, and year of passing.
Bring in the wood and help the Baker Party

Mark "Roadkill" Loader =A0=A0

--MS_Mac_OE_3081483780_89832_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM Brothers Gone under</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
Mark,<BR>
If all members of this list will e-mail me the names of those that have &qu=
ot;Died" I will update the Data-Base and make it available. All you nee=
d to give me is there full name. I have there number's.<BR>
YMOS<BR>
Ole # 718<BR>
----------<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Hello the camp <BR>
Next years national will be on our new land hosted by the Baker party and i=
t <BR>
looks like it will be Memorial Day week. It might be appropriate to remembe=
r <BR>
AMM Brothers that have gone under at that time. We are asking your help to =
<BR>
make a list: <BR>
Name, camp name, AMM number, age, and year of passing. <BR>
Bring in the wood and help the Baker Party <BR>
<BR>
Mark "Roadkill" Loader =A0=A0<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>

--MS_Mac_OE_3081483780_89832_MIME_Part--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Addison Miller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Eastern Ronny
Date: 24 Aug 2001 11:02:08 -0400

If any of you are going to make it to the Eastern Eonny in W Va next month,
please look us up at the Mouse House. Too bad Hilljack and Hawk and
CrookedHand can't be there.  Miss you guys, but will see you at the Alafia.
Hilljack and 'Hand will be bunkin in our spare bunkhouse...  Anyways, there
is always coffee on the fire, and libations to soothe the parched throat.
Come by for a jaw session...

Ad Miller
Alderson, WV


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Sega <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:straw v wool hats
Date: 24 Aug 2001 08:34:21 -0700 (PDT)


I wear a hat almost daily outside here in the heat of
the desert.  It is straw, and a necessity.  If I don't
wear it, I feel 10 times hotter.  If I forgot my
straw, I would wear felt, but the sraw hat lets the
sweat evaporate better, thus cooling me more.  The
most important effect of the hat is to keep the sun
off of your head, reducing the temperature of your
head and causing more efficient cooling.  Also keeps
your ears and nose from burning, which also makes it
harder to efficiently regulate temps.

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From: "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Boys Clothing
Date: 24 Aug 2001 09:01:53 -0700

The trouble with youngin's is that they keep on growing.  When my kids were
small we figured one season was all we could get out of a set of clothes
unless we made them overtly large the first year.  Accounts of the time
indicate that children dressed like miniature versions of their parents.  My
son wore a shirt of my wife's making, moccasins of my making but the narrow
fall, drop front drawers were made by Jas Townsend and Son.  Their goods are
well-made, authentic and inexpensive.  Each season we'd put out a blanket
and sell off what the kid's had outgrown.  Good times.

Larry Huber
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 8:23 PM


> hi wynn;
> i'd start em out with leggings and a breech clout and a long drop sleeve
> shirt.  leggins for a boy or boys wouldn't take to much leather or time to
> make.
> tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
> To: "Hist mail" <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 6:05 AM
> Subject: MtMan-List: Boys Clothing
>
>
> > I am curious about both authentic and acceptable clothing for boys.  My
> > oldest is
> > five so that would be a good place to start.  Is there much or any
> > documentation available for what those half breed brats wore?
> >
> > Wynn Ormond
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
> ----------------------
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:straw v wool hats
Date: 24 Aug 2001 12:32:39 EDT

I have tried and wear both, and personally have found that Straw is MUCH
cooler overall than Wool.  Here in So Cal, I wear Straw during the day, and
when it turns cooler in the evening, change to a Bridger Wool, and the
increase in body temperature / comfort can be felt almost immediately. The
reverse is true during the day.  I'd guess that Straw wasn't 'common' in the
RMFT because it just can't stand up to the rigors of everyday wear. Sweating,
humidity, sun and general care all have an effect, and while my Straw hats
last a few years, the my Wool one's last almost indefinitely.  Barney

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 24 Aug 2001 19:53:20 EDT

Hallo the List,

Like some, it's hard for me to pass by a neat old bottle (hard to pass some
neat new  bottles too...<G>). I've got some real old ones in my collection,
but some need the inside cleaned. I came up with the idea of using
"efferdent" to soak the inside clean, but dinna work.
Now I've got one full of vinegar, and will wait till tomorrow to see if that
does the trick. Has anyone come up with a solution that works?

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: "Lanney Ratcliff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 24 Aug 2001 19:58:09 -0500

...........
Now I've got one full of vinegar, and will wait till tomorrow to see if that
does the trick. Has anyone come up with a solution that works?

Go to the kitchen do-dad dept. at just about any store and get a bottle
brush........a flexible wire with a round brush on the end.  You can find
'em where babies stuff is sold, too.
Lanney


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From: "CrookedHand" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Ronny
Date: 24 Aug 2001 23:09:49 -0400

Lord willin and the dreek don;t wash away my tepee... I will be there...
missed it last year... cannot do that again@
Mark "Crooked Hand" Toigo /aka/ Wethlee-EnkΘ
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/8699
http://www.alltel.net/~chand/
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 11:02 AM


> If any of you are going to make it to the Eastern Eonny in W Va next
month,
> please look us up at the Mouse House. Too bad Hilljack and Hawk and
> CrookedHand can't be there.  Miss you guys, but will see you at the
Alafia.
> Hilljack and 'Hand will be bunkin in our spare bunkhouse...  Anyways,
there
> is always coffee on the fire, and libations to soothe the parched throat.
> Come by for a jaw session...
>
> Ad Miller
> Alderson, WV
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>



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From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: boys clothes
Date: 24 Aug 2001 20:14:47 -0700 (PDT)

When my son was still a toddler and I was getting
ready to take him to his first rendezvous doin's, I
found an old fringed buckskin jacket at a second hand
store, cut the sleeves off to make leggins, wrapped a
breechcloth around his diaper, and put him in a calico
shirt I got from Grizz.  He was happy as a clam!  DOG

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From: Ronald Schrotter <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: straw versus wool hats
Date: 24 Aug 2001 20:20:26 -0700 (PDT)

According to an old Wyoming puncher [and former AMM
brother]  "Never hire a cowboy who rolls his own
cigarettes and wears a straw hat.  When he ain't
rollin' a smoke, he's chasin that damn hat!"  DOG

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From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Chouteau Days
Date: 24 Aug 2001 20:21:47 -0700 (PDT)

The Chouteau "Birthday" celebration at Salina,
Oklahoma will be October 12 - 13 this year,at the
Chouteau Museum.
 This will be the third year some of us have helped
with their "doings".
 The Lady in charge, has ask us to invite anyone that
wants to come and help with the school day
presentations on Friday the 12th, and be there for the
public on Sat.Or just come and set up for number.
 I know it is during Bow season and several will being
"make -in- meat"But if you live any where near or want
to have a place to gather, please come.
 Bring your trade goods, (public style)
 Douglas Jones (AMM) and his wife Jeanie and I plan to
set up on Thursday.
  Anyone interested ???
 George

=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
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From: Lee Newbill <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 24 Aug 2001 20:39:26 -0500

<html><head></head><body>Magpie<br>
<br>
The last time I had a bottle with a wee bit of "goo" inside, I filled it
1/8 full of a sand/water mix, then shook it for a minute or two.  It scoured
the bottle out very nicely.  Don't know if I'd recommend this for a really
valuable bottle, but it worked well for me.<br>
<br>
Another good remedy is the flexible bottle brush found in the beer making section of some stores.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Lee Newbill<br>
Viola, Idaho<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[e-mail]"><pre wrap="">Hallo the List,<br><br>Like some, it's hard for me to pass by a neat old bottle (hard to pass some <br>neat new  bottles too...<G>). I've got some real old ones in my collection, <br>but some need the inside cleaned. I came up with the idea of using <br>"efferdent" to soak the inside clean, but dinna work.<br>Now I've got one full of vinegar, and will wait till tomorrow to see if that <br>does the trick. Has anyone come up with a solution that works?<br><br>Ymos,<br>Magpie<br><br>----------------------<br>hist_text list info: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html">http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html</a><br><br><br></pre>
  </blockquote>
  <br>
</body></html>


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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oak Tree "Galls"
Date: 24 Aug 2001 22:36:02 -0500

George,

You could make ink which is a more common use for galls.

If you want to tan the most information I've seen that might be helpful is at:
http://www.braintan.com/barktan/index.htm

There seems to be nothing on using oak galls, talk to Matt to figure out
how to best get started and then do the experiments that teach how, then
tell the rest of us how it worked out.  It may not be much different than
using bark.

John...


At 08:05 PM 8/22/01 -0700, you wrote:
>If this is a double, I appologise! The first one
>didn't seem to get through.
>  I am wondering if anyone knows how to use the "galls"
>from Oak trees for tanning?
>  I think I remember my Grandad telling they were used
>in tanning, and (I think) as a dye.
>  My grandkids and I gathered about a gallon and a half
>today and there are still some in the trees for future
>picking.
>  Any "thoughts' ????
>  George

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 25 Aug 2001 00:22:01 EDT


In a message dated 8/25/1 12:54:41 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Now I've got one full of vinegar, and will wait till tomorrow to see if
that
does the trick. Has anyone come up with a solution that works?
>>

Lime-Away or the acid that is its prime ingredient - phosphoric? . . . got
some downstairs in the shop if you need a little.  Supposed to soften horns,
but didn't work for me.

Cheers
Dick James

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Eastern Ronny
Date: 25 Aug 2001 07:18:33 EDT

Well, it makes me really sad I can't be there...only wish the job would
allow...You two are the greatest...

Hilljack

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From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 25 Aug 2001 07:59:56 -0400

I found a pretty old whiskey bottle (four roses)
with contents remaining and I clean it out a little
at a time.

Tom



[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Hallo the List,
>
> Like some, it's hard for me to pass by a neat old bottle (hard to pass some
> neat new  bottles too...<G>). I've got some real old ones in my collection,
> but some need the inside cleaned. I came up with the idea of using
> "efferdent" to soak the inside clean, but dinna work.
> Now I've got one full of vinegar, and will wait till tomorrow to see if that
> does the trick. Has anyone come up with a solution that works?
>
> Ymos,
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 25 Aug 2001 11:14:51 EDT


In a message dated 8/25/01 5:00:39 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I found a pretty old whiskey bottle (four roses)
with contents remaining and I clean it out a little
at a time. >>

Haaaaa...... The ole whiskey bottles I have git cleaned out a lot at a
time...<G>

Anyway, the vinegar worked pretty good by letting it set overnight, but the
best cleaner so far is "Shower Power" (CLR) as Dick James suggested. The
phosphoric acid remove the mineral stains as advertised (nope, don't got no
stock in the company) if you let it set a bit...

I remain,
Magpie

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: NEW SITE!~
Date: 25 Aug 2001 11:30:53 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C12D59.66663C80
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey all, pardon the intrusion.. Here is a new site for your perusal.=20

http://www.colonialreproductions.com/  Good stuff...=20

D



   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
       Knives and Iron Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1

   "Knowing how is just the beginning."

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C12D59.66663C80
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey all, pardon the intrusion.. Here is =
a new site=20
for your perusal. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.colonialreproductions.com/">http://www.colonialreprodu=
ctions.com/</A> =20
Good stuff... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>   "Abair ach beagan is abair =
gu math=20
e"<BR>            =
DOUBLE=20
EDGE FORGE<BR>       Knives and Iron=20
Accouterments<BR>      <A=20
href=3D"http://www.bright.net/~deforge1">http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<=
/A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>   "Knowing how is just the=20
beginning."</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C12D59.66663C80--


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From: "Maryln Adams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 25 Aug 2001 20:07:43 -0400

I collect old bottles, also.  I have been told by antique dealers that the
value is ruined if you clean them.  Most of my bottles come from garbage
dumps and have the rainbow patina.  Cleaning ruins this.  Of course, if you
are using them then they would have to be cleaned!



>From: [e-mail]
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:53:20 EDT
>
>Hallo the List,
>
>Like some, it's hard for me to pass by a neat old bottle (hard to pass some
>neat new  bottles too...<G>). I've got some real old ones in my collection,
>but some need the inside cleaned. I came up with the idea of using
>"efferdent" to soak the inside clean, but dinna work.
>Now I've got one full of vinegar, and will wait till tomorrow to see if
>that
>does the trick. Has anyone come up with a solution that works?
>
>Ymos,
>Magpie
>
>----------------------
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From: "Maryln Adams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 25 Aug 2001 20:07:45 -0400

I collect old bottles, also.  I have been told by antique dealers that the
value is ruined if you clean them.  Most of my bottles come from garbage
dumps and have the rainbow patina.  Cleaning ruins this.  Of course, if you
are using them then they would have to be cleaned!



>From: [e-mail]
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:53:20 EDT
>
>Hallo the List,
>
>Like some, it's hard for me to pass by a neat old bottle (hard to pass some
>neat new  bottles too...<G>). I've got some real old ones in my collection,
>but some need the inside cleaned. I came up with the idea of using
>"efferdent" to soak the inside clean, but dinna work.
>Now I've got one full of vinegar, and will wait till tomorrow to see if
>that
>does the trick. Has anyone come up with a solution that works?
>
>Ymos,
>Magpie
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 26 Aug 2001 02:57:36 EDT


In a message dated 8/25/01 5:08:58 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I collect old bottles, also.  I have been told by antique dealers that the
value is ruined if you clean them.  >>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 26 Aug 2001 03:08:58 EDT


In a message dated 8/25/01 5:08:58 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I collect old bottles, also.  I have been told by antique dealers that the
value is ruined if you clean them. >>

Oops..... Dinna mean to send that last yet....

Anyway Maryln.... I never could figure that out. A bunch of old crusty lime
and who knows what, stain on a bottle makes it worth more! I use the bottles,
so it's nice to have em kinda clean.
<<Most of my bottles come from garbage
dumps and have the rainbow patina>>

Aaaaah....... don't think I'll be drinking out of the rainbow patina
bottles....<G>

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: r'vous, where?
Date: 26 Aug 2001 10:06:36 -0500

    A common practice [failing?] on this list, and others, is to discuss an
event without fully mentioning where it was or will be.
    The Riverton Rendezvous may be known to some on this list, but others,
like yours truly, do not know what state it is in.  Knowing if it is 200 or
2000 miles from home sure would be a big help in deciding whether or not
attending is possible.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders



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From: manbear <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 26 Aug 2001 11:14:38 -0400

I'd rather drink out of those that the ones I've dug out of old privies.
 Talk about getting Sh** Faced..;-)
Manbear

[e-mail] wrote:

><<Most of my bottles from garbage dumps have rainbow patina>>
>Aaaaah....... don't think I'll be drinking out of the rainbow patina
>bottles....<G>
>
>
>



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From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: old bottles
Date: 26 Aug 2001 10:17:24 -0500

Marlyn Adams said,
    <.  I have been told by antique dealers that the
value is ruined if you clean them.  Most of my bottles come from garbage
dumps and have the rainbow patina.  Cleaning ruins this.>
    Marlyn, I too, have sold and traded antiques for many years.  From my
experience, one statement I can make with absolute authority is that most
antique dealers do not know what the 'h' they are talking about.
    I believe [my opinion] that from my observations old bottles sell
quicker and bring a higher price if they are cleaned first and the so-called
patina removed.
    Rinsing any old glassware with vinegar is a very old antiquers trick to
clean and sparkle glass.  That does not "ruin" the old glass.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders



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From: "Frank Fusco" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: hot heads and hats
Date: 26 Aug 2001 10:25:27 -0500

Mike W. said,
    <I have seen lots of real cowboys with wool
hats on in the summer.  Does that make sense?  Off hand, it seems like a
wool
hat would be best for winter and a straw hat best for summer.>
    Mike, you obviously have been keeping a cool head. Only those with
previously fried brains would claim that heavy, warm clothes are "cooler" in
hot summer weather than light airy clothes.
    I have some friends that are Civil War [can we say that on this list?]
re-enactors.  They claim that they are comfortable in their heavy wool CW
uniforms during 90 and 100 degree weather. They'll say this while in their
death throes from heat prostration.
    Personally, I often wish a mesh baseball style cap had been in wide use
pre-1840 as 'authentically correct' hats are really uncomfortable in hot
weather and going bareheaded does not shade the eyes.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, Arkansas
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders




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From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: clothing for women (was: Boys Clothing)
Date: 26 Aug 2001 09:43:44 -0600

At 12:58 AM 8/26/01 -0600, "Larry Huber" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>My son wore a shirt of my wife's making, moccasins of my making but the narrow
>fall, drop front drawers were made by Jas Townsend and Son.  Their goods are
>well-made, authentic and inexpensive.


Townsend's stuff for men & boys is good. Unfortunately, the're not as good
when it comes to women's clothing, as they continue to offer the "French
bodice" (http://www.jastown.com/womens/fb-142.htm) & "English bodice"
(http://www.jastown.com/womens/eb-141.htm), even though there is *no*
documentation for these garments being worn in America or Britain in the
18th or 19th centuries.  Their shortgown & bedgown, though, are good.
Caveat emptor!

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred






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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hot heads and hats
Date: 26 Aug 2001 14:20:26 -0500

Hasn't anyone on this list ever heard of evaporative cooling?  It works as
well on your head as on a water bag, swamp cooler, or spring well.

In the desert a canvas hat, long sleeve cotton shirt, and long cotton
pants, (feel free to substitute hemp and or linen for cotton) is
comfortable if you simply stay wet.  This technique does not work so well
in humid areas.  It works swell with a 4x beaver.

A man with only a felt hat is smarter to wear it on a bright shiny
day.  When you're on the trail you haven't got room to be packing spare
large brim hats in oversize boxes to keep them pretty and pristine.

Use those damn silly, one size fits nobody, mesh caps and burn your brains
out: what's a little melanoma on the top of your head?

John...


At 10:25 AM 8/26/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Mike W. said,
>     <I have seen lots of real cowboys with wool
>hats on in the summer.  Does that make sense?  Off hand, it seems like a
>wool
>hat would be best for winter and a straw hat best for summer.>
>     Mike, you obviously have been keeping a cool head. Only those with
>previously fried brains would claim that heavy, warm clothes are "cooler" in
>hot summer weather than light airy clothes.
>     I have some friends that are Civil War [can we say that on this list?]
>re-enactors.  They claim that they are comfortable in their heavy wool CW
>uniforms during 90 and 100 degree weather. They'll say this while in their
>death throes from heat prostration.
>     Personally, I often wish a mesh baseball style cap had been in wide use
>pre-1840 as 'authentically correct' hats are really uncomfortable in hot
>weather and going bareheaded does not shade the eyes.
>Frank G. Fusco
>Mountain Home, Arkansas

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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From: Mike Moore <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: hot heads and hats
Date: 26 Aug 2001 16:12:07 -0600

    As a person who works outside about 8-9 months a year,
I'd like to put in my 2 cents on the straw/ flet hat debate. I am
a house painter who has about 60- 70% of my jobs being
exteriors. I have used a straw hat for the last four years. They
are cheap, cooler and protect my face better than any other
hat I have found. I even have a better straw hat which I use
when not working and go to events where it is not formal.
    And as some one how has had four skin cancer places
removed (and another which I'm sure my doctor will say needs
it), I find these hats the best I can use. They protect my ears,
temples and the back of the neck. In my business I am seeing
alot of trademen who are coming up with the same cancers
on ears, sides of the face and necks. And I tell every one of them
to switch.
    There are differences in styles and weaves, so you need to find
one which let air through, have wide brims and still shade well the face.
Many on my customers probably wouldn't reconginze me with out one
and I feel that they work well. I also own a 4x beaver hat from
Clearwater Hats (they are nice!). But I sweat more in it and they are
alot heavier. A lot of people will say their ideas and opponions on styles
and myths associated with felt hats, but they are not perfect. They will
burn from a stray spark and once burned can not be fixed. (so you will
also have a sun spot where it is), I have a few friends who have bullet
holes, burn marks and othere holes in their felt hats, and while these do
add character to it, they can't be repaired like on a straw hat. I have used
straw hats on canoe trips, horse rides and alot of weekend camps where
they can be advantage.
                                mike.
p.s. Hardtack tells me that in the famous picture of Joseph Walker riding
on his horse with his Indian wife behind him (Alfred Jacon Miller), he is
wearing a wide brim, straw hat. He might be right!





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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: r'vous, where?
Date: 26 Aug 2001 20:10:05 EDT


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Riverton is in west central Wyoming and was the site of the 1830 and 1838
rendezvous. It is well worth the time it takes
 Mark "Roadkill" Loader

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Riverton is in west central Wyoming and was the site of the 1830 and 1838
<BR>rendezvous. It is well worth the time it takes
<BR> Mark "Roadkill" Loader</FONT></HTML>

--part1_a3.1af6d8f6.28bae9dd_boundary--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 26 Aug 2001 20:17:23 EDT

Well.....here it is boys and girls, the finished pack, and dam if I ain't
kinda proud of it! Onlyest took me a couple weeks, a case and a half of MGD,
half a jug of JD, and near a pint of blood from the needle pokes.

The frame is rawhide laced willow with the cross poles inleted into the
uprights, and gluded. The bag is hand sewn (take note John) linen/cotton
canvas with tanned moose leather at the bottom...and bees wax for
waterproofing.

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac2.jpg">pac2.jpg</A>
http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac2.jpg
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac1.jpg">pac1.jpg</A>
http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac1.jpg

As soon as my fingers heal, I'll sew sumtin else up....and nope, I ain't
takein orders.....<G>

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 26 Aug 2001 20:58:32 -0400

Pack looks really good, but what in the world is
it parked in front of??

BTW, you might wish to get a couple of buffalo scraps
(hair on) and fashion some shoulder pads for the
narrow straps if you plan to carry much weight for
much distance.

Tom

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Well.....here it is boys and girls, the finished pack, and dam if I ain't
> kinda proud of it! Onlyest took me a couple weeks, a case and a half of MGD,
> half a jug of JD, and near a pint of blood from the needle pokes.
>
> The frame is rawhide laced willow with the cross poles inleted into the
> uprights, and gluded. The bag is hand sewn (take note John) linen/cotton
> canvas with tanned moose leather at the bottom...and bees wax for
> waterproofing.
>
> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac2.jpg">pac2.jpg</A>
> http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac2.jpg
> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac1.jpg">pac1.jpg</A>
> http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac1.jpg
>
> As soon as my fingers heal, I'll sew sumtin else up....and nope, I ain't
> takein orders.....<G>
>
> Ymos,
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: r'vous, where?
Date: 26 Aug 2001 21:43:36 -0600

Frank,

Riverton, Wyoming.  On the approximate site of the 1838 rendezvous (junction
of the Wind River and the Popo Agie).  Held over the 4th of July week.

At 10:06 AM 08/26/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>    A common practice [failing?] on this list, and others, is to discuss an
>event without fully mentioning where it was or will be.
>    The Riverton Rendezvous may be known to some on this list, but others,
>like yours truly, do not know what state it is in.  Knowing if it is 200 or
>2000 miles from home sure would be a big help in deciding whether or not
>attending is possible.
>Frank G. Fusco
>Mountain Home, Arkansas
>http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders
>
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>


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From: "rtlahti" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 26 Aug 2001 21:13:21 -0700

Tom,

Of course he plans on carrying some weight some distance, when he packs out
our elk! <G>

Capt. Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 5:58 PM


> Pack looks really good, but what in the world is
> it parked in front of??
>
> BTW, you might wish to get a couple of buffalo scraps
> (hair on) and fashion some shoulder pads for the
> narrow straps if you plan to carry much weight for
> much distance.
>
> Tom
>
> [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > Well.....here it is boys and girls, the finished pack, and dam if I
ain't
> > kinda proud of it! Onlyest took me a couple weeks, a case and a half of
MGD,
> > half a jug of JD, and near a pint of blood from the needle pokes.
> >
> > The frame is rawhide laced willow with the cross poles inleted into the
> > uprights, and gluded. The bag is hand sewn (take note John) linen/cotton
> > canvas with tanned moose leather at the bottom...and bees wax for
> > waterproofing.
> >
> > <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac2.jpg">pac2.jpg</A>
> > http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac2.jpg
> > <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac1.jpg">pac1.jpg</A>
> > http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pac1.jpg
> >
> > As soon as my fingers heal, I'll sew sumtin else up....and nope, I ain't
> > takein orders.....<G>
> >
> > Ymos,
> > Magpie
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 27 Aug 2001 00:33:56 EDT


In a message dated 8/26/01 5:59:27 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Pack looks really good, but what in the world is
it parked in front of?? >>

Thanks! ..... Yer gonna have to get out more often Tom....its leanin against
my teepee.....<G>

<<BTW, you might wish to get a couple of buffalo scraps
(hair on) and fashion some shoulder pads>>
Good idea....you got any you'll part with? Draggin Capt Lahti up and down the
hills this fall is gonna hurt without em....

Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 27 Aug 2001 00:39:24 EDT


In a message dated 8/26/01 5:59:27 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Pack looks really good, but what in the world is
it parked in front of?? >>

Forgot to add this....

<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/tipi.jpg">tipi.jpg</A>
http://members.aol.com/swcushing/tipi.jpg

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From: John Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 27 Aug 2001 00:01:10 -0500

Mighty purty.

How does it feel on your back when you carry it full?

I'm sure the Capt'n will make good use of your new ability to work harder
in his best interest.

It is good to bleed, drains off the poisons and bad blood.  Its a period
thing to do.

John...

At 08:17 PM 8/26/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Well.....here it is boys and girls, the finished pack, and dam if I ain't
>kinda proud of it! Onlyest took me a couple weeks, a case and a half of MGD,
>half a jug of JD, and near a pint of blood from the needle pokes.
>
>The frame is rawhide laced willow with the cross poles inleted into the
>uprights, and gluded. The bag is hand sewn (take note John) linen/cotton
>canvas with tanned moose leather at the bottom...and bees wax for
>waterproofing.

Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer  <[e-mail]>


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From: "Kim & Jen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #846
Date: 26 Aug 2001 23:08:13 -0600

Hau, John;
My wife, Jenaka has answered some of the questions about the 1838 Rendezvous
Association and the site that we oversee so, I'll just make a comment on
your mention of Jake Korrel.  You are definitely right about him being the
genuine article.  I've been trapping for over 40 years, off and on, myself
and have learned a lot from Ol' Jake.  He is a member of the Association and
the shooting range on the site is dedicated to him.  I don't know if you
know it or not but he was nominated a few years ago to the National
Trapper's Association's Hall of Fame.  I know this because I am the one who
nominated him.  He became number 8 in the Hall of Fame and the seven
preceding him were all deceased.  There are quite a few new members in the
Hall of Fame since that first year but, in my opinion, none more sincere and
giving of his time and energies to the youth of the area here, in Fremont
County, Wyoming and to the trappers in general.  He was a fur buyer for
years and always gave fair prices and good advice.
Also, you are right about the Association financing the stone engraving.
Rick from Rick's Rocks is the engraver and he still takes care of our needs
whenever we find another mountain man or missionary that can be documented
as there during either the 1830 or 1838 rondy's.
Mitakuye Oyasin
CallsTheWind
> >
> > Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:17:44 EDT
> > From: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Riverton Rendezvous
> >
> > I'm not sure who did the stonework, but there is a Riverton Rendezvous
> Assoc.
> > that probably financed it.  They hold a ronnyvoo every 4th of July week.
> > Riverton, besides being the site of the 1830 and 1830 rendezvous' is
also
> > home to Jake Korell, the most genuine trapper/packer/Indian
> trader/mountain
> > man still living and breathing. (Just my opinion, of course, but I'll
> stick
> > to it)
> >
> > John Sweet



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From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Book Review: The Trade
Date: 26 Aug 2001 16:39:11 -0600

My summer reading included the novel _The Trade_, by Fred Stenson. The
story takes place from 1822 to the late 1840's, and the action centres on
the Hudson Bay Company's fur trade, particularly in Alberta at this time. I
didn't notice any purely fictional characters; instead, I was entranced by
the parade of historical characters, which included George Simpson, Edward
Harriott, John Rowand, Rev. Rundle, Paul Kane, Jimmy Jock Bird, with cameos
by Dr. John McLoughlin and William Connolly. I was fascinated by Stenson's
unusual, yet credible, take on them. I found Stenson's unorthodox
characterization of Simpson quite believable, in the light of the HBC
Governor's known track record. Stenson also gives Rev. Rundle a rough ride,
but what he says tallies fairly well with Rundle's own journal, which I
read several years ago. I do wish that he'd mentioned that Rundle did,
eventually, learn Cree.

The main plot, about a doomed love, was reminiscent of a Victorian
melodrama, but I found it interesting & enjoyable just the same. For me, it
was the characters & Stenson's perspective on them which really carried the
book.

Gripes: Very few female characters. Occasional references to beards and
tricornes, which I don't believe were very prevalent during the period.
Stenson also consistently uses the word "fuke" for "musket"; I only recall
seeing this term in very early fur trade documents, c. 1774. I didn't see
it used in Samuel Black's 1824 journal, which I was reading at the same
time as The Trade.

Overall, though, it's important to keep in mind that this is a work of
fiction, and not to worry over much about these small details. Many other
small details, like the abandonment of old Matooskie, and the punishment of
the deserters from the Rocky Mountain Expedition, are correct, and show
that Stenson was working hard to do a good job. This book succeeds
admirably at bringing Canadian history to life without abandoning historic
accuracy.

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred




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From: [e-mail]
Subject: MtMan-List: Remember the AMM Eastern in Virginia in October!
Date: 27 Aug 2001 09:45:57 EDT

Don't forget the AMM Eastern in Virginia this October. The site if
beee-u-tiful!

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paul W. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Remember the AMM Eastern in Virginia in October!
Date: 27 Aug 2001 09:07:13 -0500

Does the Booshway of this event have an e-mail address?

Regards,

Paul


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:45 AM


> Don't forget the AMM Eastern in Virginia this October. The site if
> beee-u-tiful!
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 27 Aug 2001 10:29:40 EDT

Magpie,

  Your packframe looks GREAT!  I made mine in somewhat the same way only for
the first try I just used wood dowels.  Will try the willow on the next try.
One suggestion that has worked well for me would be to crisscross the
shoulder straps at the top. Keeps them from wanting to slip over your
shoulder.

Longshot

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 27 Aug 2001 12:40:46 EDT


In a message dated 8/26/01 10:03:48 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I'm sure the Capt'n will make good use of your new ability to work harder
in his best interest.
 >>

Haaaaaa....He thinks I'm gonna pack him up and down the hills on this Fall
hunt.... I can, but it'll be in quarters....<G.

<<How does it feel on your back when you carry it full?>>
You can't see it in the jpg,s but I dried the willow on a form that put about
a 1 1/2" bend in both uprights. That, with the cross pieces spaced properly,
the leather back brace, and the buffalo shoulder pads Bead Shooter is sending
me... I shouldn't be too paralyzed after a heavy pack.

<<It is good to bleed, drains off the poisons and bad blood.  Its a period
thing to do.>>
VBG.....  Yeah....but I'm allergic to pain.

I remain,
Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chouteau Days
Date: 27 Aug 2001 13:28:19 EDT


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George, I think I have to work that weekend.  If I can I will be there though

                                                       Joe

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>George, I think I have to work that weekend.  If I can I will be there though
<BR>
<BR>                                                       Joe</FONT></HTML>

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From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:05:49 -0400


>
> Thanks! ..... Yer gonna have to get out more often Tom....its leanin against
> my teepee.....<G>

Oh, that's what it is!  Thought it might have been the leading
edge of one of them crop circle burning UFO's. <G>  Mighty
colorful!
>
> <<BTW, you might wish to get a couple of buffalo scraps
> (hair on) and fashion some shoulder pads>>
> Good idea....you got any you'll part with? Draggin Capt Lahti up and down the
> hills this fall is gonna hurt without em....

Yep, I might have a couple scraps.  Trade you for some of the Capt's elk
meat.<G>

Tom

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From: tom roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:17:19 -0400

Pretty amazing!  Did you paint it?

Tom

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/26/01 5:59:27 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Pack looks really good, but what in the world is
> it parked in front of?? >>
>
> Forgot to add this....
>
> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/swcushing/tipi.jpg">tipi.jpg</A>
> http://members.aol.com/swcushing/tipi.jpg
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: [e-mail] (Jon Marinetti)
Subject: MtMan-List: Buffalo Restoration
Date: 27 Aug 2001 21:00:33 -0400 (EDT)

USA Today, Mon. 08-27-01, p.8A
South Dakota: Rosebud - The Rosebud Sioux Tribe has endorsed a plan to
bring back buffalo to a potentially vast tract of land on the Great
Plains.  It's the first American Indian tribe to embrace the Million
Acre Project.  The Great Plains Restoration Council of Denver is raising
money to buy land and also plans to work with private landowners,
tribes, and local governments to patch together a contiguous 1 million
acres in the region for the buffalo preserve.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:53:11 -0600

My wife has been a collector  of old bottles for years.  I would guess the =
dealers are trying to get them bought at a much lower price.  After all, =
when you see them for sale at the stores they have been cleaned up haven't =
they?  As a matter of fact, most of the ones she has, she dug out of old =
out houses and we use them.

On Sunday, October 13, 1940, Maryln Adams <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I collect old bottles, also.  I have been told by antique dealers that =
the=20
>value is ruined if you clean them.  Most of my bottles come from garbage=20
>dumps and have the rainbow patina.  Cleaning ruins this.  Of course, if =
you=20
>are using them then they would have to be cleaned!
>
>
>
>>From: [e-mail]
>>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>>To: [e-mail]
>>Subject: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
>>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:53:20 EDT
>>
>>Hallo the List,
>>
>>Like some, it's hard for me to pass by a neat old bottle (hard to pass =
some
>>neat new  bottles too...<G>). I've got some real old ones in my =
collection,
>>but some need the inside cleaned. I came up with the idea of using
>>"efferdent" to soak the inside clean, but dinna work.
>>Now I've got one full of vinegar, and will wait till tomorrow to see if=20
>>that
>>does the trick. Has anyone come up with a solution that works?
>>
>>Ymos,
>>Magpie
>>
>>----------------------
>>hist_text list info:
>http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: willow pack
Date: 27 Aug 2001 23:57:09 EDT


In a message dated 8/27/01 5:18:26 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Pretty amazing!  Did you paint it? >>

Naw....ain't that handy. Nomadic tipis has a lady that does the pictographs
of buffalo...I kinda like it.
Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Book Review: The Trade
Date: 28 Aug 2001 00:05:04 EDT


In a message dated 8/27/01 5:17:30 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< This book succeeds
admirably at bringing Canadian history to life without abandoning historic
accuracy.
 >>

Great review Angela. Can you recommend any books on the Hudson's Bay Co. in
the Northwest? I'm most interested in the Fort Vancouver, Fort Nisqually, and
Fort Langley.....my area of the woods.

Ymos,
Magpie

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From: "Maryln Adams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
Date: 28 Aug 2001 06:28:48 -0400

If you mean the mud off yes. They have been rinsed in water.  As far a
cleaning off the patina, which I assume is mineral deposit, the ones that I
have bought from dealeres still have that on it.  Most of mine were not
purchased.   I do not use my old bottles.  Heck! I probably just break them
and many of them are one of a kind and can't easily be replaced. I guess it
is one of those indvidual preference thing. As for me, I do not want an old
bottle to look new.  And, yes the dealers are making a killing on some of
these bottles in recent years.

>From: Phyllis and Don Keas <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
>Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:53:11 -0600
>
>My wife has been a collector  of old bottles for years.  I would guess the
>dealers are trying to get them bought at a much lower price.  After all,
>when you see them for sale at the stores they have been cleaned up haven't
>they?  As a matter of fact, most of the ones she has, she dug out of old
>out houses and we use them.
>
>On Sunday, October 13, 1940, Maryln Adams <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >I collect old bottles, also.  I have been told by antique dealers that
>the
> >value is ruined if you clean them.  Most of my bottles come from garbage
> >dumps and have the rainbow patina.  Cleaning ruins this.  Of course, if
>you
> >are using them then they would have to be cleaned!
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: [e-mail]
> >>Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >>To: [e-mail]
> >>Subject: MtMan-List: Old Bottles
> >>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:53:20 EDT
> >>
> >>Hallo the List,
> >>
> >>Like some, it's hard for me to pass by a neat old bottle (hard to pass
>some
> >>neat new  bottles too...<G>). I've got some real old ones in my
>collection,
> >>but some need the inside cleaned. I came up with the idea of using
> >>"efferdent" to soak the inside clean, but dinna work.
> >>Now I've got one full of vinegar, and will wait till tomorrow to see if
> >>that
> >>does the trick. Has anyone come up with a solution that works?
> >>
> >>Ymos,
> >>Magpie
> >>
> >>----------------------
> >>hist_text list info:
> >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> >
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From: Angela Gottfred <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 28 Aug 2001 07:46:21 -0600

I can't help myself, I just don't trust supposed historical research
without any dates on it. So when I visited the website www.woolsoft.net,
the following statement raised an eyebrow:

"The "Double Three Point" blanket became a standard of
   the fur trade. Each blanket was worth six prime beaver
   pelts. The term "split the blanket" came into being when
   a trapper only had three pelts to trade. The blanket was
   cut or torn in half, becoming two three point blankets."

I have, rarely, come across references to *pairs* of point blankets, but
nowhere near as frequently as these folks seem to suggest. But my period
ends at 1821. What do you folks think? And is there a demand today for
blankets measuring about 5' X 12'?

Your humble & obedient servant,
Angela Gottfred


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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 28 Aug 2001 10:01:48 -0400


  "And is there a demand today for blankets measuring about 5' X 12'?"

Angela

It is my understanding that "doubles" * "pairs" of blankets were shipped
here form Europe for economic reason.. To save the tarrif or taxes on
imports. You can ship "one" long blanket  and then seperate it when here and
save the price paying import tarrifs on two.

Dennis

   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
       Knives and Iron Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1

   "Knowing how is just the beginning."


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:33:41 -0400

angelia
have a 6 point blanketHudson bay (purple)---ordered direct from the bay
company by my aunt in canida in 1960 ---she bought me 2 of them at the
time as a wedding gift -- i asked her for one 2 point and 1 four point
and got the 2 ---6 point onesthey said they made a mistake and gave them
to her for the price of the 2 point and the 4 point ---they were intended
for a king sized bed and they do cover then well---and relly keep you
warm on a cold night---have camped with my 6 point and fold and roll it
into a good bed---2 layers under ond one overand fold the bottom under
---works great but too big and too heavy to tote long distances ---dont
believe they used many of the double 3 points as they would be the same
size as my 6 point is and its big in length and width---would work great
for some of the big guys 6 plus feet tall and on the large frames---but
the blanket is heavy---there was a paper with my blankets that gave a lot
of information about them---it explained the point system and some of the
historical background---might go to the bay company web sight they may
have it posted there---this internet has everything else on it---Just a
guess dear---i know you like documentation as well as i do---and venders
will say anything to make a sale on ocasions---


"The "Double Three Point" blanket became a standard of
   the fur trade. Each blanket was worth six prime beaver
   pelts. The term "split the blanket" came into being when
   a trapper only had three pelts to trade. The blanket was
   cut or torn in half, becoming two three point blankets."


this statement is not correct in what i have read---its not 6 prime pelts
but the marks on the blanket show how high the stack of pelts must be I
thought---I may be wrong but that was my thinking---and the split the
blanket is a marketers play on words????who knows---check the bay company
postings on the historical background of the blanket and its colors and
markings---I know there are 3 different purple blankets and that is by
color alone not even getting into the point marks on the edge of the
blanket---some colors were not even sold in the fur trade time period
that they have today---also the older blankets have a different hudson
bay sticker on them---that has changes about 6 ot 7 times over the
ages---saw that somewhere they had examples of the different hudson bay
marks---dont remember where---i will dig and see what i have here i can
send you if i find it---


have a good day
Nuff said---

    "HAWK"
Michael Pierce        "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line "  trademark (C)
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor florida 34684        Phone Number:  1-727-771-1815
E-Mail: [e-mail]   Web site:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:55:16 EDT

James Hanson's article on Point Blankets says that "The French may have sold
their blankets individually; at least a surviving order priced them that way.
All English Point Blankets were shipped from the factory in undivided pairs.
Europeans may have marketed blankets this way amoung themselves; at least I
have seen many sheets and bed blankets with no fur trade association that are
still 'doubles'. There is some evidence that Indians in the frigid North did
not divide them; in 1611 an observer reported that the Indians wore 'bed
blankets which they improve with trimming and wear double'."           Barney



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From: George Noe <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Chouteau Days
Date: 28 Aug 2001 09:55:33 -0700 (PDT)

   Joe;
 Hope you can make it !!
 If you know of anyone that may want to help with the
"School Day" demos, or just needs an excuse to get on
the ground, please let them know.
 Can set up Thursday the 11th, and go home Sunday the
14th, of OCTOBER.
 Will be at the Chouteau Museum, Salina Oklahoma.
 grn
--- [e-mail] wrote:
> George, I think I have to work that weekend.  If I
> can I will be there though
>
>
>   Joe
>


=====
George R. Noe< [e-mail] >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

__________________________________________________
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From: "harddog" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Double Blankets
Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:56:19 -0500

Angela,

I have three double 3-1/2 point blankets, (actually 6 blankets). Of course
they are from a later time period than 1821. When they started putting
labels on the blankets, the double blankets had only one label on them, so
when they were ripped into two blankets only one of the blankets had a
label. This explains why some Hudson Bay blankets appear to have never had a
label.

A few years ago you could still buy double blankets, but only at the mills
where they are made. Today, they do not ship double blankets to my knowledge
although that is the way they were shipped in the early years.

Every once in a while you see Hudson Bay doubles being sold on the Ebay
internet auction.

YMH&OS
Harddog


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From: "Clay J. Landry" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 28 Aug 2001 20:42:18 -0600

Anglea

 In the American Fur Company, St Louis, ledgers 1821 to 1860,  the listings
of "pairs" of point blankets are very numerous. this not only includes the
orders shipped to America by the blanket suppliers in Leads but also the
inventories of the interior posts such as Fort Union and Fort Pierre. I
can't speak to the Canadian trade, but in the American fur trade 'pairs' of
point blankets were anything but rare.

Clay Landry
Moorhead MT
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:46 AM


> I can't help myself, I just don't trust supposed historical research
> without any dates on it. So when I visited the website www.woolsoft.net,
> the following statement raised an eyebrow:
>
> "The "Double Three Point" blanket became a standard of
>    the fur trade. Each blanket was worth six prime beaver
>    pelts. The term "split the blanket" came into being when
>    a trapper only had three pelts to trade. The blanket was
>    cut or torn in half, becoming two three point blankets."
>
> I have, rarely, come across references to *pairs* of point blankets, but
> nowhere near as frequently as these folks seem to suggest. But my period
> ends at 1821. What do you folks think? And is there a demand today for
> blankets measuring about 5' X 12'?
>
> Your humble & obedient servant,
> Angela Gottfred
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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From: "Gretchen Ormond" <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: Book Review: The Trade
Date: 28 Aug 2001 22:32:13 -0600

Magpie wrote:
Great review Angela. Can you recommend any books on the Hudson's Bay Co.
in
the Northwest? I'm most interested in the Fort Vancouver, Fort
Nisqually, and
Fort Langley.....my area of the woods.

If I may be so forward as to answer a question put to someone else,
Peter Skene Ogden's biographer Archie Bimms deals with the Northwest.
Typical of the writing style of many early historians he lacks
referances and makes it up when he can't find the facts (50 horses for
a  widow!).  Still its probably worth reading.  Ogden journals
themselves can not be forgotten.  And lastly Children of the Fur Trade
deals with the Metis but a lot of it takes place in the Northwest.
There are probably others that are better but those are my suggestions.

Wynn Ormond


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 29 Aug 2001 07:01:43 -0700

Dennis,
About a year ago there was a red 3 point blanket that was still hooked
together. Ebay was selling and promoting it as being verry rare.
YMOS
Ole # 718
----------
>From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
>Date: Tue, Aug 28, 2001, 7:01 AM
>

>
>  "And is there a demand today for blankets measuring about 5' X 12'?"
>
>Angela
>
>It is my understanding that "doubles" * "pairs" of blankets were shipped
>here form Europe for economic reason.. To save the tarrif or taxes on
>imports. You can ship "one" long blanket  and then seperate it when here and
>save the price paying import tarrifs on two.
>
>Dennis
>
>   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>       Knives and Iron Accouterments
>      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
>
>   "Knowing how is just the beginning."
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

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From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 29 Aug 2001 09:10:13 -0400

Ole,
 Probably went high.. I actually bid on a pair of white/cream ones that were
at an estate auction. Pristine, label intact, and the mid point of the
blanket was actually "scored" for straight cutting/tearing... It sold in the
$750 rancge, if I remember right.. WAAAY to pricey for my budget.
D

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:01 AM


> Dennis,
> About a year ago there was a red 3 point blanket that was still hooked
> together. Ebay was selling and promoting it as being verry rare.
> YMOS
> Ole # 718
> ----------
> >From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
> >Date: Tue, Aug 28, 2001, 7:01 AM
> >
>
> >
> >  "And is there a demand today for blankets measuring about 5' X 12'?"
> >
> >Angela
> >
> >It is my understanding that "doubles" * "pairs" of blankets were shipped
> >here form Europe for economic reason.. To save the tarrif or taxes on
> >imports. You can ship "one" long blanket  and then seperate it when here
and
> >save the price paying import tarrifs on two.
> >
> >Dennis
> >
> >   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> >            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> >       Knives and Iron Accouterments
> >      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
> >
> >   "Knowing how is just the beginning."
> >
> >
> >----------------------
> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 29 Aug 2001 07:25:14 -0700

Hello the Camp!
I know that we have had discussions on fishing line and hooks before, but I
have not seen anything on poles/reals and such.
What did they look like? when were they invented? where can I get one if
they make such a thing?
I know that Wilferd Woodruff went fly fishing in the creeks around Fort
Bridger in 1847 but how far do they go back before that?.
YMOS
Ole # 718


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From: "Paul W. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 29 Aug 2001 10:21:32 -0500

Ole,

You cover a lot of ground with your question.

Rods of one form or another had been used for centuries before the Mountain
Man era.  By that date sporting (read that fly) rods were typically spliced
rods (angled sections whipped together) of some variety of wood, although
many ferruled rods were making an appearance by 1800.  The split cane rods
were not available until much nearer 1850, and the debate remains as to who
invented split cane rods--the Brits around 1800 (at least as to a tip
section on an otherwise solid wood rod) or the Americans (more likely as
they were being commerically produced in the United States by about 1840).
Fishing rods did make it into the mountains fairly early.  One of the
Astorian's had a "cased" rod and purchased a hair line on his way West.
Hair lines were used for sport fishing.  Linen and other natural fibers for
bait or coarse fishing.  The earliest rod in my collection is from the
1840's, a Scottish greenheart rod about 18 feet in length.  It will not fit
on a horse with ease.

Reels were available in a crude sense of the term as early as the 1600's.
Used to store line, not for casting.  Called winches at first.  The early
reels were spiked (literally a spike that fit through a hole at the base of
the rod) or with a clamp that fit around the base of the rod.  By the early
1700's they were more and more available, and were being imported into the
America's in the early 1700's.  By 1750 they were available in fishing shops
in the major cities and being adverstised in newspapers by the Revolution.
The multiplying reel made its appearance sometime after 1750, and by the
early 1800's were common-place.  Kentucky gun makers get the honors for
really perfecting the real mutilpling reels.  A reel from about 1750 and
after looks very much like a simple casting reel we use today.  Still only
line holders and primarily used for trolling, but they had simple gears and
in appearance looked very much the same.  It is really hard to identify an
unmarked early reel from the late 1700's from say, one made after about
1830/1850.  They looked virtually alike, and absent the makers markings only
a real expert on the finer points of constuction techniques can distinguish
one reel as to a given date/time frame from the another.  The earliest reel
I have acquired is an Irish reel from the 1820's.  It was made for salmon
fishing and is more like a modern fly reel than a casting reel.  I have a
clamp reel from the 1840's.  Would have a spiked reel from the early 1700's
but do not have the required 1,200 English pounds to buy it!!

By the 1830's and the 1840's sport fishing had really caught on in the
United States, but primarily in the North East.

I can not yet document a reel in the mountains until about 1840, and that is
still an educated guess. Lewis and Clark purchased stave reels for their
trip, but those are simply the wood line holders (shaped like an "H") many
of us kept our line wrapped on when much younger (and some of us still do).
Also cannot document that a rod was taken by them, but even though every
item, including hooks and various types of fishing lines were itemized for
the trip, you cannot rule out that Lewis, in particular, had a personal rod
and/or reel.  But if so, why was it not mentioned in any of the journals?

Sorry to be so long-winded, but this subject is all-consuming for me.

Regards,

Paul


> Hello the Camp!
> I know that we have had discussions on fishing line and hooks before, but
I
> have not seen anything on poles/reals and such.
> What did they look like? when were they invented? where can I get one if
> they make such a thing?
> I know that Wilferd Woodruff went fly fishing in the creeks around Fort
> Bridger in 1847 but how far do they go back before that?.
> YMOS
> Ole # 718
>



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 29 Aug 2001 11:48:52 EDT


In a message dated 8/29/1 2:27:16 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<not seen anything on poles/reals and such.
What did they look like? when were they invented? where can I get one if
they make such a thing?>>

Ole
Dave Kafton's brother, Mike has written a small book on the subject.  Check
our marquis at Bridger.  He also intends to make a limited number of the
early reels (not reals - real reals, perhaps).
See you there
Dick James

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "ALAN AVERY" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 29 Aug 2001 11:39:05 -0700

If you are looking for a double blanket, they are available from Crazy Crow
Trading Post in Texas, the latest catalog I have, (#17) shows a retail price
of: US $165.00. They are available in red with  black stripes, and white
with navy blue stripes. Also, no point marks or labels, (labels were not
commonly  seen on blankets until around 1890 anyway). I have handled one of
these blankets and I would compare it to a Witney in quality. (Apparently
they are made in Czech Republic to original Witney specs. The size is given
as 71" x 158".

...just my 2ó worth...

Bigfoot

waaay up north
----- Original Message -----
Sent: August 29, 2001 6:10 AM


> Ole,
>  Probably went high.. I actually bid on a pair of white/cream ones that
were
> at an estate auction. Pristine, label intact, and the mid point of the
> blanket was actually "scored" for straight cutting/tearing... It sold in
the
> $750 rancge, if I remember right.. WAAAY to pricey for my budget.
> D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:01 AM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
>
>
> > Dennis,
> > About a year ago there was a red 3 point blanket that was still hooked
> > together. Ebay was selling and promoting it as being verry rare.
> > YMOS
> > Ole # 718
> > ----------
> > >From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
> > >To: <[e-mail]>
> > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
> > >Date: Tue, Aug 28, 2001, 7:01 AM
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >  "And is there a demand today for blankets measuring about 5' X 12'?"
> > >
> > >Angela
> > >
> > >It is my understanding that "doubles" * "pairs" of blankets were
shipped
> > >here form Europe for economic reason.. To save the tarrif or taxes on
> > >imports. You can ship "one" long blanket  and then seperate it when
here
> and
> > >save the price paying import tarrifs on two.
> > >
> > >Dennis
> > >
> > >   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> > >            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> > >       Knives and Iron Accouterments
> > >      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
> > >
> > >   "Knowing how is just the beginning."
> > >
> > >
> > >----------------------
> > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bob Schmidt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 29 Aug 2001 13:25:26 +0100

Sorry....was mistaken.  Guess the book was written by Mike Kafton.
I'm still interested.
Bob Schmidt


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 29 Aug 2001 17:39:15 EDT


In a message dated 8/29/1 8:30:33 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Sorry....was mistaken.  Guess the book was written by Mike Kafton.

I'm still interested.

Bob Schmidt>>

We are still in the same movie.  Mike wants to start produceing a period reel
as well and has traded stuff with me to make the components for him.  He is a
quiet guy - a printer - be very serious about this stuff, research and all.
I'll get back with you.

Cheers
RJames

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 29 Aug 2001 21:52:52 -0600

Hello!

Tom Roberts loaned the AMM exhibit in the Museum of the Mountain Man in
Pinedale a nice red/scarlet double blanket.  It's a Hudson Bay.

Wes Housler has some double blankets for sale.  I've seen one, and they look
pretty good.

Helps from kicking your feet out on a cold night............


Allen from Fort Hall country.


At 09:10 AM 08/29/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Ole,
> Probably went high.. I actually bid on a pair of white/cream ones that were
>at an estate auction. Pristine, label intact, and the mid point of the
>blanket was actually "scored" for straight cutting/tearing... It sold in the
>$750 rancge, if I remember right.. WAAAY to pricey for my budget.
>D
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ole B. Jensen" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:01 AM
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
>
>
>> Dennis,
>> About a year ago there was a red 3 point blanket that was still hooked
>> together. Ebay was selling and promoting it as being verry rare.
>> YMOS
>> Ole # 718
>> ----------
>> >From: "Double Edge Forge" <[e-mail]>
>> >To: <[e-mail]>
>> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
>> >Date: Tue, Aug 28, 2001, 7:01 AM
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >  "And is there a demand today for blankets measuring about 5' X 12'?"
>> >
>> >Angela
>> >
>> >It is my understanding that "doubles" * "pairs" of blankets were shipped
>> >here form Europe for economic reason.. To save the tarrif or taxes on
>> >imports. You can ship "one" long blanket  and then seperate it when here
>and
>> >save the price paying import tarrifs on two.
>> >
>> >Dennis
>> >
>> >   "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
>> >            DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
>> >       Knives and Iron Accouterments
>> >      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1
>> >
>> >   "Knowing how is just the beginning."
>> >
>> >
>> >----------------------
>> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>> ----------------------
>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>>
>
>
>----------------------
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From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 29 Aug 2001 21:52:53 -0600

Hi Ole,

In the journals of Nathanial Wyeth he mentions on page 23, "my covered
fishing rod".  There are numerous times when he mentions trading fish hooks
with the Indians for various items.

So fishing rods in the west go back at least to 1834.

Allen

At 07:25 AM 08/29/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello the Camp!
>I know that we have had discussions on fishing line and hooks before, but I
>have not seen anything on poles/reals and such.
>What did they look like? when were they invented? where can I get one if
>they make such a thing?
>I know that Wilferd Woodruff went fly fishing in the creeks around Fort
>Bridger in 1847 but how far do they go back before that?.
>YMOS
>Ole # 718
>
>
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>


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Book Review: The Trade
Date: 29 Aug 2001 23:40:08 EDT


In a message dated 8/28/01 9:24:55 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< If I may be so forward as to answer a question put to someone else,
Peter Skene Ogden's biographer Archie Bimms deals with the Northwest. >>

Thanks Wynn! I think I speak for most everyone on the list...please always
feel free to answer any question posted. I'll see if I can find a biography
on Ogden....seems to me he came out of Fort Vancouver..... so much to
read....<G>

I remain,
Magpie

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 30 Aug 2001 00:42:08 EDT


In a message dated 8/29/1 8:30:33 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<Sorry....was mistaken.  Guess the book was written by Mike Kafton.

I'm still interested.

Bob Schmidt>>

Bob
I talked with Mike this evening ( he lives 35 miles north of here).  I will
get on of his books there for you if you wish.  He says they are only a
pamphlet, though and are $3.  If you want one anyway,   I will cover the
postage.  I need to know where to send it, though.  Everything in it is
quoted from history and has a complet bibliography, which is what we as
researchers are looking for anyway.  Since he put it together he has turned
up a lot more stuff as this kind of research is ongoing with him as it is
with us.  He is interested in the Rev War period and post-war, so much of his
stuff is of early period reference.

Hope this is what you are seeking

Sincerely
Richard James

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From: "Bob Schmidt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 30 Aug 2001 07:42:04 +0100

Thank you for your quick reply.

Yes, I would very much like to have one of the pamphlets.  Please
send me your address so I can mail the $$.

Our address is:
Bob Schmidt
P.O. Box 941
Hamilton, MT  59840
http://www.webwalking.com/historicalenterprises.com


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From: "Bob Schmidt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 30 Aug 2001 07:53:46 +0100

Thank you Richard for you quick reply.
Please send me the address so I can send the $$ for the pamphlet
on fishing.
Send to:
Bob Schmidt
P.O. Box 941
Hamilton, MT 59840

Thank you again.
Bob Schmidt
http://www.webwalking.com/historicalenterprises


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From: "Daniel L. Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 30 Aug 2001 20:29:51 -0600

<html><head><meta Name='keywords' Content='commtouch, pronto, mail, free email, free, branded, web based, free web based email, communications, internet, software, advertising banners, e-mail, free software'></head><body   ><div align='left'><font   ><blockquote><blockquote><TT>---- Begin Original Message ----<BR>
<BR>
Ha Hudson Bay.<BR>
<BR>
Wes Housler has some double blankets for sale. <BR>
I've seen one, and they look pretty good.  <BR>
<BR>
Helps from kicking your feet out on a cold<BR>
night............<BR>
<BR>
Allen from Fort Hall country.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 09:10 AM 08/29/2001 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>Ole,<BR>
> Probably went high.. I actually bid on a pair<BR>
of white/cream ones that were at an estate<BR>
auction. Pristine, label intact, and the mid<BR>
point of the blanket was actually "scored" for<BR>
straight cutting/tearing... It sold in the $750<BR>
rancge, if I remember right.. WAAAY to pricey for<BR>
my budget.<BR>
> <BR>
>D<BR>
---- End Original Message ----<BR>
_____________________________________<BR>
<BR>
Hey Dennis,<BR>
<BR>
Your always trading with Buck, he has two old HBC<BR>
3pt doubles, maybe he doesn't know what they are<BR>
worth, nice knife or hawk <GGG>......<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</TT><br><br><br><br><br><br><font><p align=left><TT>Later, <BR>
Daniel L. "Concho" Smith<BR>
_____________________________________________ <BR>
HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT_______HRD__<BR>
http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/_________HRD__<BR>
<BR>
      [Outdoor Ethics] "Leave No Sign"<BR>
_____________________________________________</TT><br><TT>Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com </TT></blockquote></blockquote></div></font></body></html>

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From: "Daniel L. Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Fishing Equipment?
Date: 30 Aug 2001 20:36:10 -0600

<html><head><meta Name='keywords' Content='commtouch, pronto, mail, free email, free, branded, web based, free web based email, communications, internet, software, advertising banners, e-mail, free software'></head><body   ><div align='left'><font   ><blockquote><blockquote><TT>---- Begin Original Message ----<BR>
<BR>
 From: Allen Hall <[e-mail]><BR>
Sent: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:52:53 -0600<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hi Ole,<BR>
<BR>
In the journals of Nathanial Wyeth he mentions on<BR>
page 23, "my covered<BR>
fishing rod".  There are numerous times when he<BR>
mentions trading fish hooks<BR>
with the Indians for various items.<BR>
<BR>
So fishing rods in the west go back at least to 1834.<BR>
<BR>
Allen<BR>
<BR>
At 07:25 AM 08/29/2001 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>Hello the Camp!<BR>
>I know that we have had discussions on fishing<BR>
line and hooks before, but I<BR>
>have not seen anything on poles/reals and such.<BR>
>What did they look like? when were they<BR>
invented? where can I get one if<BR>
>they make such a thing?<BR>
>I know that Wilferd Woodruff went fly fishing in<BR>
the creeks around Fort<BR>
>Bridger in 1847 but how far do they go back<BR>
before that?.<BR>
>YMOS<BR>
>Ole # 718<BR>
---- End Original Message ----<BR>
<BR>
Ole,<BR>
<BR>
I'm told Buck just finished a cane 3 section pole<BR>
and rawhide case, equipped with Mr. Jones lines,<BR>
flys and hooks, even has a 1780 style brass bait<BR>
box by GBW. If the pictures came out he said an<BR>
article will appear in the next issue of T&LR.<BR>
I'm told by "Hook" that it's very nice, should be<BR>
fun to look at in the journal.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</TT><br><br><br><br><br><br><font><p align=left><TT>Later, <BR>
Daniel L. "Concho" Smith<BR>
_____________________________________________ <BR>
HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT_______HRD__<BR>
http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/_________HRD__<BR>
<BR>
      [Outdoor Ethics] "Leave No Sign"<BR>
_____________________________________________</TT><br><TT>Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com </TT></blockquote></blockquote></div></font></body></html>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Double three point blankets
Date: 30 Aug 2001 23:11:07 EDT

In a message dated 8/28/01 9:57:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<  And is there a demand today for
 blankets measuring about 5' X 12'?
  >>
I have a demand for a blanket or 20 that size!!!  Where and how much!?!?!?!
Respond off-line, please!!!
-C.Kent

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From: Mike Wehrman <[e-mail]>
Subject: MtMan-List: 12 ft lightweight tipi for canoeing
Date: 31 Aug 2001 07:12:28 -0700 (PDT)

I know there's nothing authentic about it, but I go canoe camping alot and I've
got a hankerin' to carry along about a 12 ft. or so lightweight tipi.  I was
thinking maybe a dacron tipi (the stuff they make alot of sails out of) with
telescoping fiberglass poles (probably bend too much, though).  Mostly be
camping on river sandbars outta the wind. Anybody got any ideas, or is this all
hairbrained?

Thanks!

Mike Wehrman
[e-mail]

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 12 ft lightweight tipi for canoeing
Date: 31 Aug 2001 10:38:06 EDT

> I know there's nothing authentic about it, but I go canoe camping alot and
I've
>  got a hankerin' to carry along about a 12 ft. or so lightweight tipi.

How are you going to carry all the poles required in a canoe?
Suggest you explore a one-pole lodge that many makers offer.  They will
probably sew you one up from whatever material you want.

Dave Kanger

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From: "darlene secondine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 12 ft lightweight tipi for canoeing
Date: 31 Aug 2001 16:48:21 +0000

Howdy,
  I'm new to the list(about two weeks) and this is my first post.
A couple of my friends have gone on canoe camps and we used a canvas tarp
and upside down canoe for sleeping under. Nice light traveling that way,too.
See ya later,
Don in the Ohio Country


>From: [e-mail]
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 12 ft lightweight tipi for canoeing
>Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:38:06 EDT
>
> > I know there's nothing authentic about it, but I go canoe camping alot
>and
>I've
> >  got a hankerin' to carry along about a 12 ft. or so lightweight tipi.
>
>How are you going to carry all the poles required in a canoe?
>Suggest you explore a one-pole lodge that many makers offer.  They will
>probably sew you one up from whatever material you want.
>
>Dave Kanger
>
>----------------------
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_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Wehrman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 12 ft lightweight tipi for canoeing
Date: 31 Aug 2001 11:27:31 -0700 (PDT)


> How are you going to carry all the poles required in a canoe?

I'd want telescoping poles.  I've got a telescoping lightweight fiberglass pole
I use for changing light bulbs.  It goes down to less than 6' should fit in a
16' tandem canoe without being a nuisance.  Doubt if these poles are strong
enough, but I could try to find some industrial-sized poles in maintanence
catalogs. But that's the only idea I've got for poles, though.  I've seen an ad
for some kid tipis with "breakdown poles," but I suspect they're just folding
wood.  Wood is too  heavy and bulky.  My tandem canoe can handle a total of 900
pounds, but I don't wanna torture myself to get just 10-15 miles/day.  Anyway,
like I say, this is probably a hairbrained idea anyway.

There are lots of shelters that would be more practical for transporting in a
canoe (probably almost any shelter), but I thought I'd tap the vast experience
of the outdoorsmen on this list and see if anybody's paddled with a tipi like
this before with success.

__________________________________________________
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From: Linda Holley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 12 ft lightweight tipi for canoeing
Date: 31 Aug 2001 16:26:26 -0400

Well, I wouldn't want to put a fire in the thing.  But for modern camping, not a
bad idea and has been done.  For such a light tipi you can use 12' to 13' poles,
cut them in half and then sleeve them like you do for tents.  Nomadics tipi makers
have a page showing this style.

Linda Holley
http://www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com

Mike Wehrman wrote:

> I know there's nothing authentic about it, but I go canoe camping alot and I've
> got a hankerin' to carry along about a 12 ft. or so lightweight tipi.  I was
> thinking maybe a dacron tipi (the stuff they make alot of sails out of) with
> telescoping fiberglass poles (probably bend too much, though).  Mostly be
> camping on river sandbars outta the wind. Anybody got any ideas, or is this all
> hairbrained?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike Wehrman
> [e-mail]
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://im.yahoo.com
>
> ----------------------
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 12 ft lightweight tipi for canoeing
Date: 31 Aug 2001 21:51:46 EDT


--part1_f5.ecbf629.28c19932_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Mike, How about a one pole conical tent?  You'd only have to carry one pole,
and this could be a sectioned wooden pole.  I made sectioned poles by taking
the tree support posts (available at nurserys, etc...) and joining them with
sections of steel fence posts.  I cut 8 inches of steel fence posts.  I work
down 4 inches of each pole.  This allows you to join two poles, fairly
strongly.  I use these on my wall tent.  Food for thought....  hardtack


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Mike, How about a one pole conical tent?  You'd only have to carry one pole,
<BR>and this could be a sectioned wooden pole.  I made sectioned poles by taking
<BR>the tree support posts (available at nurserys, etc...) and joining them with
<BR>sections of steel fence posts.  I cut 8 inches of steel fence posts.  I work
<BR>down 4 inches of each pole.  This allows you to join two poles, fairly
<BR>strongly.  I use these on my wall tent.  Food for thought....  hardtack
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_f5.ecbf629.28c19932_boundary--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 12 ft lightweight tipi for canoeing
Date: 01 Sep 2001 00:38:15 EDT

Or a pyramid tent (sometimes called a tepee tent)?  It can be set up with one
pole, two crossed poles, or tied to an overhanging limb.  They can be
documented out west in the 1840s, and I've been through some hellacious
mountain wind/rain or snow storms in one.  They work great, are sturdy and
roomy.

John R. Sweet

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