Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mtn men and the 4th of July
Date: 04 Jul 2001 21:59:32 +0800
Independence Day
Fourth of July
Being Independence Day 2001, Let's take a look at what our forefather's were up to on the Upper Missouri 1805. With the portage behind them, the Corps of Discovery celebrated their second Fourth of July of the journey with a meal of beans, suet dumplings, and heaping portions of buffalo meat, a ôvery comfortable dinner,ö Lewis wrote.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We had no just cause to covet the sumptuous feasts of our countrymen on this day......... . We have
conceived our party sufficiently small and therefore have concluded not to dispatch a canoe with a part
of the men to St. Louis as we had intended early in the spring. We fear also that such a measure might
possibly discourage those who would be in such case remain, and might possibly hazzard the fate of the
expedition................ MERIWETHER LEWIS
July 4th. A beautiful, clear, pleasant warm morning....It being the 4th of Independence, we drank the last
of our Spirits.... The fiddle [was] put in order, and the party amused themselves dancing all the evening
until about 10 oClock in a jovi[a]l manner. JOHN ORDWAY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Their supply of whiskey was running low, but the captains let the men finish it off as ôthey continued
their mirth with songs and festive jokes and were extremely merry until late at nightö.
They were was behind schedule. And off in the distance, they could now see the mountains that awaited them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The mountains to the N.W. and West of us are still entirely covered [with snow], are white and glitter with the reflection of the sun. I do not believe that the clouds that pervale at this season of the year reach the summits of those lofty mountains; and if they do the probability is that they deposit snow only, for there has been no p[er]ceptable diminution of the snow which they contain since we first saw them. I have thought it probable that these mountains migth have derived their appellation of SHINEING
MOUNTAINS from their glittering appearance when the sun shines in certain directions on the snow
which covers them. WILLIAM CLARK
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wonder how many of the hist_list camped in the Yellowstone area this year have seen these SHINEING MOUNTAINS as did William Clark, Meriwether Lewis and their group did a few years before !
> This game was played at the Fort Snelling July reenactment of the sale of
> the Columbia Fur Co. to American Fur. The post variation was to stand on
> nail kegs. Be sure the ground is soft!
>
> Larry Huber
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry,
You mentioning Ft. Snelling, I was there last week and talked to several of the living history folks working there, they told me that being state run they would be closing very shortley because their buget has been used up for the year. Was told the same thing the week before at another historical site in MN, if this is true that's real poor for "youth presentations" or any other "demos" for the state's history programs. To bad the federal goverment can't give some relief, tax breaks or whatever to keep these sites open year around or at least weekends in off seasons in MN.
Do you know anything about this, hear something at the end of the local news one night, but found nothing in the Minn. paper next day ?
I have several original U.S. Model 1816 Harpers Ferry flintlocks that weren't converted until 1828/29 and not approved for service until 1830 -marked- "US/A.WATERS/1828" and "US/A.WATERS/1829" this company did many of the conversions and where proofed by "MILLBURY/1830" (government agent)for release for serviceon this year.
From 1923 until his death in 1990 my father had collected both flint and perc. military weapons of English or American forces used in the new world (here). So I can say we have seen a few over the years of these old guns and their ignition systems. We have sold, trade or swapped to collectors fron sea to shining sea as well as several museums, so I have seen a few over the years.
A large part of the conversions where not in the field until the mid 1830's back east, so to state "Most guns in the East where probably cap by 1827." just really isn't true, let me tell you why.
Maybe by 1835 some had changed, but remember these people followed what the military did, plus converting from one to the other system was expensive for those limited in funds when the old flinter still worked. They used their gun to mainly provide food for their families, also protection or sport, put like today it's expensive to just waste ball and powder.
Usually those of means where the first to make the change, like anything else. Charles Hanson has talked and written many articles about this subject, but what I have always found interesting is there are only a few documented cases (in comparsion to the flint) of percussion being used before 1837.
When St. Louis gun makers/hardware stores - (like today's Wal Mart or K Mart, sell everything) started to promoted the use of this system, either conversion or new guns (by the way many of which according to Hanson where double barrel shotguns)was in the late 1830!
Charley wrote and I can't find which journal it is in right now, that many of the weapons coming west where military muskets, that was part of your pay when leaving the service (probably because of poor pay and the weapon you carried worked, it was used for the time being), interesting, sure shoots down some folks dreams.
Jed Smith died in the late 1820"s carrying to caplock pistols. Read JOURNAL of a TRAPPER by Russell .Mid to late 1830's caplocks are used and mentioned. Also read Wah to ya and the Taos Trail it takes place in the late 1840's. Their guns are caplock the Indians use "the old style ignition'. As for me I have both and use both.That is the nice thing about the 1830s 40s and 50s they are both correct be you trapper or trader etc. Gentleman James
As mentioned, there where both systems, the number of each is an unknown figure, like Charley said at a speech at Bent's Fort back in the late 70's, "records where not kept on such things, the only records as accurate as they would be, would be to look at the trade lists and possibly the number of flints or percussion caps being shown for that time". Not a true picture because some of flint shooters would have knapped their own with local material, rather than spend money on flint when whiskey was available.
I'm sure that my old friend "Hawk" can add additional information, as can several others like Dave Kanger or Mike Moore, both good research men.
Good discussion topic that will go on until we all loose interest in this hobby/sport/way of life, Thanks Gentlemen James.
I agree with some a probably good bit more with what you are saying. My disagreement started with a writer telling a new convert to muzzle loading not to choose a cap lock. And I was saying that if you are going to do a 1830 40 50s impression a caplock is perfectly acceptable. I am not even saying that in the West in even the late 1830s most guns were cap. I am saying that they were in use at that time in a good number good enough number that a muzzloader can use them and be correct.As far as the statement
that most (shotguns) guns in the East were cap I left out Shotguns. NOW I will quote Garavaglia and Worman Firearms of the American West 1803-1865 .
"While the percussion lock was available at this time, the flintlock mechanism enjoyed a comparatively long period of popularity on the frontier. Alexander Forsyth, a Scottish clergyman, had patented the percussion system in April of 1807; by the early 1820s, after various modifications and improvements which included the development of the copper percussion cap, the system had gained a certain popularity among sportsmen. In 1827 the American Shooter's Manual noted that eastern sportsmen were almost
exclusively using shotguns fitted with percussion locks, and by 1830 many eastern guns, regardless of type, employed the percussion system. Within a year or two it was comming to the attention of westerners with increasing frequency; early in 1832, for example, John Martin of Little Rock incorporated this line in his advertisement: "Guns and Pistols with common locks, fitted with percussion locks, at the shortest notice." Nevertheless, flintlocks remained the choice of the more conservative frointersmen for
another ten years or so. (early 1840s). Thanks Gentleman James. Im sure there will be more to come.I hope we all are learning something from our diatribes and rantings. Watch your top knots. Wagh!
buck_conner@email.com wrote:
> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:32:57 -0500
> From: jim gossett <gjme@negia.net>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rifle question
>
> About the guns and ignition . Flint or cap? Most guns in the East where probably cap by 1827.
> I have several original U.S. Model 1816 Harpers Ferry flintlocks that weren't converted until 1828/29 and not approved for service until 1830 -marked- "US/A.WATERS/1828" and "US/A.WATERS/1829" this company did many of the conversions and where proofed by "MILLBURY/1830" (government agent)for release for serviceon this year.
>
> >From 1923 until his death in 1990 my father had collected both flint and perc. military weapons of English or American forces used in the new world (here). So I can say we have seen a few over the years of these old guns and their ignition systems. We have sold, trade or swapped to collectors fron sea to shining sea as well as several museums, so I have seen a few over the years.
>
> A large part of the conversions where not in the field until the mid 1830's back east, so to state "Most guns in the East where probably cap by 1827." just really isn't true, let me tell you why.
>
> Maybe by 1835 some had changed, but remember these people followed what the military did, plus converting from one to the other system was expensive for those limited in funds when the old flinter still worked. They used their gun to mainly provide food for their families, also protection or sport, put like today it's expensive to just waste ball and powder.
>
> Usually those of means where the first to make the change, like anything else. Charles Hanson has talked and written many articles about this subject, but what I have always found interesting is there are only a few documented cases (in comparsion to the flint) of percussion being used before 1837.
>
> When St. Louis gun makers/hardware stores - (like today's Wal Mart or K Mart, sell everything) started to promoted the use of this system, either conversion or new guns (by the way many of which according to Hanson where double barrel shotguns)was in the late 1830!
>
> Charley wrote and I can't find which journal it is in right now, that many of the weapons coming west where military muskets, that was part of your pay when leaving the service (probably because of poor pay and the weapon you carried worked, it was used for the time being), interesting, sure shoots down some folks dreams.
> Jed Smith died in the late 1820"s carrying to caplock pistols. Read JOURNAL of a TRAPPER by Russell .Mid to late 1830's caplocks are used and mentioned. Also read Wah to ya and the Taos Trail it takes place in the late 1840's. Their guns are caplock the Indians use "the old style ignition'. As for me I have both and use both.That is the nice thing about the 1830s 40s and 50s they are both correct be you trapper or trader etc. Gentleman James
> As mentioned, there where both systems, the number of each is an unknown figure, like Charley said at a speech at Bent's Fort back in the late 70's, "records where not kept on such things, the only records as accurate as they would be, would be to look at the trade lists and possibly the number of flints or percussion caps being shown for that time". Not a true picture because some of flint shooters would have knapped their own with local material, rather than spend money on flint when whiskey was available.
>
> I'm sure that my old friend "Hawk" can add additional information, as can several others like Dave Kanger or Mike Moore, both good research men.
>
> Good discussion topic that will go on until we all loose interest in this hobby/sport/way of life, Thanks Gentlemen James.
I agree with some a probably good bit more with what you are saying. My disagreement started with a writer telling a new convert to muzzle loading not to choose a cap lock. And I was saying that if you are going to do a 1830 40 50s impression a caplock is perfectly acceptable.........
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wish I had the resources that Hanson had, he would have enjoyed this discussion and what some writer's think is correct, but un-documented. It would be interesting to see what references (documented) material was used by the writer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOW I will quote Garavaglia and Worman Firearms of the American West 1803-1865.
> "While the percussion lock was available at this time, the flintlock mechanism enjoyed a comparatively long period of popularity on the frontier. Alexander Forsyth, a Scottish clergyman, had patented the percussion system in April of 1807; by the early 1820s, after various modifications and improvements which included the development of the copper percussion cap, the system had gained a certain popularity among sportsmen.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"among sportsmen" - men of means, not the local baker, butcher or candlestick maker, Alexander Forsyth, the Scottish clergyman, was a wealthy man, the reason he hadf the time to work on his theory of the percussion cap. He had the means to show his invention to others of like wealth, finally coming to this country with the Lords and Dukes on their hunting trips, much like some of the air rifles that appeared in the late 1700's from Europe (expensive, different and who do we know that gets a copy of one - Lewis & Clark). Don't go by only a few writers, many just copy what another wrote.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nevertheless, flintlocks remained the choice of the more conservative frointersmen for another ten years or so. (early 1840s). Thanks Gentleman James.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes the percussion system was available, that doesn't mean it was widely excepted as early as stated earlier, whether in the East or West. Look how late the muskets where in being released for service, and like most weapons trends, the public follows the military thinking.
Here's another thought;
Look at the trade gun (flint) they where still filling orders (government contracts) for flint guns in the mid 1850's, a specialized trade agreed, as the Indians where use to the old system and as Hanson told us one time, he would guess they the Indian's didn't want to get into a supply and demand problem with caps at that time.
I have several trade guns, one is a pre 1813 gun that was converted according to it's markings in 1830 in New York state, so that shoots down what Hanson said with one gun, so should we say by 1830 all trade guns where converted to percussion cap, I don't think so! That's only one gun, Eastern and probably rare to be converted at this time, probably not an Indian gun.
Tryon (a general hardware store) made and sold percussion trade guns in Phila as early as 1836, called a "farm gun" for the general public not so much the Indian trade. A smooth bore single shot - shotgun basicly, in the East and percussion, so then everything should have been percussion ??? NOT.
See what we learn with a simple subject or flint or percussion, neat.
<html><DIV>Good stuff Allen!!! Two more points for the misunderstood mule.</DIV>
<DIV>Cliff</DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>
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<DIV>Wynn, Ya did good, but ya neglected the grease. I use grease in a tin....mix with a tad of bee's wax if needed to solid it up. Water and grease works for me. hardtack</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Hello the camp <BR>I would like to get a set of the pictures that Lanney is selling and the <BR>profit goes to the land fund. But I need his address. <BR>Better to count ribs than tracks <BR>Mark "Roadkill" Loader</FONT> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Mark, Lanney's e-mail is <A href="mailto:amm1585@hyperusa.com">amm1585@hyperusa.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I just received his set of pics yesterday, and I'm quite pleased with them. hardtack</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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<p>Does anyone know where the original sketches done by Alfred Miller are
<br>located? I think someone once said they were in France somewhere, and
I've
<br>got a kid over there that would take some pictures of them, if she
knew where
<br>to go....
<p>Ymos,
<br>Magpie
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Subject: Fwd: MtMan-List: Working a hat without messing it up.
Date: 15 Jul 2001 01:35:31 EDT
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On your hat ,try steaming it.Use a old coffee are tea pot and let the steam
hit the area you would like to fix. A steam iron will also work ,hope this
help.
Traphand
Rick Petzoldt
Traphand@aol.com
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Ho Camp,
I know that many of you who portray both free trappers and long hunter types
of each respective period wear wool felt hats as part of your gear. I
recently bought a good wool felt hat blank and it was shipped it a box that
sort of warped the brim. I wanted to straighten/shape it, but thought I
would ask if anyone knew a way to do this without damaging the hat. I have
many times started out to do something in a seemingly innocuous way only to
learn a very expensive lesson.
Thought maybe some of you have messied with shaping hats before and could
offer some advice!
Thanks,
-C.Kent
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<DIV>C. Kent, I have restored hats using water, and also using rubbing alcohol in an atomizer (recommended by a friend). I simply laid the hat out on something to lay flat on and wet it, then let it dry.If you want a slightly down turned shape to the brim try laying the hat on a pillow, or some such. Hope this helps. hardtack</DIV>
<html><DIV>With a little time devoted to reading thru the invoices and such on Dean's site, you'll find references to shoes, nails, and shoeing tools being carried west with fur brigades. There is also record of payments made to blacksmiths in the western most settlements for such work.</DIV>
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> Saw what they called hobble stones in a fire place at the Mormon hand cart
> museum near Independence Rock Wyo. how did they use them. They looked a lot
> like tomahawk stones.
> Roadkill
>
Mark,
The Amish use to use and may still use "hobble stones", they would have a heavy canvas bag with a loop to tie the reins to, inside they would place "hobble stones". Depending on the animal, horse or ox as to the number of stones required to keep them in one spot. I know they where still in use at least 25 years ago in PA and OH and had been around for 100's of years. Dennis Miles may be able to shed more light to the subject, as he deals with the clans back in that area.
Todays cowboys would laugh at such things, as you know with your wife's family, John would have shot the animal if it wouldn't stay "ground tied", right.
> As Buck said, Hobble Stones are still used here to some extent. Generally at the Farm Fleet or Wally World stores, where there is nowhere to tie off. Of course, nowadays, there is also generally a boy used to hard work with the rig to discourage the unseemly crowd. Those boys can be good discouragers.. Right Buck??
> D
> ----------------------
Most of those young boys/men are brother Miles size, they don't believe in fighting per say, but a brotherly hug will break a few of your ribs if need be. I think of those earlier years Dennis when in your country and my ribs still hurt from their friendlyness <G>. "say not".
--
Take care,
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Did a Winter Song magazine ever come out this year? I had heard that a final one was going to be issued, but I haven't received anything yet- anyone heard any thing?
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
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Isn't government policy amazing, doesn't matter if it was 200 years ago, Vietnan or today, all our elected officials know is send in the troops, and who pays for it - we do. Either with our lives, someone elses or our pocket books, then history gets recorded several different ways. Thanks Ole for keeping the books straight.
Buck.
__________________________________
> Mark,
> The U.S. Army was sen't out to put down a Mormon uprising in the 1850's. The
> uprising did not exist, but Brigam Young figured that the U.S. had declared
> war on the Mormons. To keep the Army from doing it's work Brigham Young sent
> a detatchment of Militia to scorch the earth in front of the Army to keep
> supplies and animal feed from them. Fort Bridger had been sold to the
> Mormons earlier so when they burned it down, they were burning there own
> property. Hell's gate I do not know about but it was destroyed for the same
> reason. There was also a large convoy of supplies following the army that
> the mormon's destroyed by loosing the animals and burning the wagons. It is
> interesting that Bill Cody was an employee of the convoy when it was
> destroyed. By destroying the supply train the Army ground to a halt and dam
> near starved to death during the winter.
> YMOS
> Ole # 718
> ----------
> From: MarkLoader@aol.com
> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hobble stones
> Date: Thu, Jul 19, 2001, 8:21 PM
>
>
> John
> You have described what they look like and how the lady at the museum
> explained there use. Attached to the hobble hitting against the horses legs
> when moving too fast. Was hoping someone could verify her thoughts. This is
> just one of the neat things I saw on the way to National. An other was a
> clay
> pipe uncovered while I was present at an excavation of a trading post, just
> west of Hells Gate, burnt by the Mormons during the time Bridger Post was
> burnt does anyone have any information on it.
> Better to count rib than horse tracks
> Mark 'Roadkill" Loader
>
--
Take care,
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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<DIV>Magpie, I'm ignorant on fine sheets and such. Is egyptian cotton readily available? I did a search about a month ago and came up empty handed. I've heard of this material, and it's suitability for oilcloth, but I couldn't fing it. Please advise this pilgrm. Thanks, hardtack</DIV>
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> I recently bought an origninal Trade Gun but it is somewhat puzzling. The gun is 58 cal smoothbore 38.5 inch barrel The flint lock is over 1.5 wide x 7" long with an 1810 date .Inside the lock on the tumbler is a number 44 . The lock also has a bridle. The ramrod pipes are very much like the 2nd model Brown Bess even the ram rod entrance pipe. All brass mountings small trihher guard like a Wilson but without the fineal. flat butt plate (brass) . The barrel has a fixed rear site and is painted black with this stamped on the barrel JPR | EXR|3. The gun is very well put together wood to metal fit etc.There is a V scratched on the inside of lock inside of the buttplate on the under side of the barrel and in the stock channel .The ramrod is metal and the frant site is like a bayonet stud . Any help would be good. Gentleman James
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dick,
Sounds like a parts gun, don't get excited "GJ", nothing wrong with a parts gun, I have one myself, it's a trade gun built out of left over pieces. Have seen several of these, according to what I have been told by Curly G., Charley H. and a few other collectors, they where usually assembled at the end of finishing a government contract. Like we need 4 more guns to finish the order and we're out of 42" barrels but have a few shorter barrels from another contract or the hardware is a little different but will do.
Remember many of these companies where just assemblers of parts provided by other firms in Europe, probably the beginning of the "cottage industries" like we saw in the "hippie" days according to Hanson.
I have a pre 1813 Sutherland, proofed, stamped w/ sitting fox, all the right marks and it has a Brown Bess style side plate ? Charley & Curly took one look and told me just what I told you.
--
Take care,
Buck Conner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Outdoor Ethics] "Leave No Trace"
"Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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PARTS GUN VERY WELL COULD BE.THE WOOD TO METAL FIT IS SECOND TO NONE. THANKS FOR THE HELP. MAYBE SOME ONE ELSE HAS A DIFFERENT SLANT .WE"LL SEE.
buck_conner@email.com wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jim gossett <gjme@negia.net>
> Subject: MtMan-List: trade gun?
> > I recently bought an origninal Trade Gun but it is somewhat puzzling. The gun is 58 cal smoothbore 38.5 inch barrel The flint lock is over 1.5 wide x 7" long with an 1810 date .Inside the lock on the tumbler is a number 44 . The lock also has a bridle. The ramrod pipes are very much like the 2nd model Brown Bess even the ram rod entrance pipe. All brass mountings small trihher guard like a Wilson but without the fineal. flat butt plate (brass) . The barrel has a fixed rear site and is painted black with this stamped on the barrel JPR | EXR|3. The gun is very well put together wood to metal fit etc.There is a V scratched on the inside of lock inside of the buttplate on the under side of the barrel and in the stock channel .The ramrod is metal and the frant site is like a bayonet stud . Any help would be good. Gentleman James
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Dick,
>
> Sounds like a parts gun, don't get excited "GJ", nothing wrong with a parts gun, I have one myself, it's a trade gun built out of left over pieces. Have seen several of these, according to what I have been told by Curly G., Charley H. and a few other collectors, they where usually assembled at the end of finishing a government contract. Like we need 4 more guns to finish the order and we're out of 42" barrels but have a few shorter barrels from another contract or the hardware is a little different but will do.
>
> Remember many of these companies where just assemblers of parts provided by other firms in Europe, probably the beginning of the "cottage industries" like we saw in the "hippie" days according to Hanson.
>
> I have a pre 1813 Sutherland, proofed, stamped w/ sitting fox, all the right marks and it has a Brown Bess style side plate ? Charley & Curly took one look and told me just what I told you.
>
> --
>
> Take care,
> Buck Conner
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~ AMM ~ LENAPE ~ NRA ~ HRD ~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> [Outdoor Ethics] "Leave No Trace"
> "Rival the best - Surpass the rest".
> ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
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In a message dated 7/24/01 9:15:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dlsmith@about.com writes:
> had a friend back here in PA have
>
You also need to watch them around camp fires. We have a club member that
was on a trek with an oil cloth diamond shelter he had made. Had all his kit
in the shelter and was cooking breakfast when the wind took a little spark up
onto the oil cloth. Burned so fast that it barely damaged the items he had
in the shelter but his smoothbore now has a two tone stock as the fire
darkened the wood on the side facing up. So be careful that you keep the
fires away from oil cloth and down wind.
Y.M.O.S.
C.T. Oakes
--part1_108.30ef0ce.289015f6_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 7/24/01 9:15:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<BR>dlsmith@about.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">had a friend back here in PA have
<BR>one light up and burn </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>You also need to watch them around camp fires. We have a club member that
<BR>was on a trek with an oil cloth diamond shelter he had made. Had all his kit
<BR>in the shelter and was cooking breakfast when the wind took a little spark up
<BR>onto the oil cloth. Burned so fast that it barely damaged the items he had
<BR>in the shelter but his smoothbore now has a two tone stock as the fire
<BR>darkened the wood on the side facing up. So be careful that you keep the
<BR>fires away from oil cloth and down wind.
<BR>
<BR>Y.M.O.S.
<BR>
<BR>C.T. Oakes</FONT></HTML>
--part1_108.30ef0ce.289015f6_boundary--
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In a message dated 7/25/01 5:32:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, CTOAKES@aol.com
writes:
> Burned so fast that it barely damaged the items he had
> in the shelter but his smoothbore now has a two tone stock as the fire
> darkened the wood on the side facing up. So be careful that you keep the
> fires away from oil cloth and down wind.
>
> Y.M.O.S.
>
Geeezes..... You guys are taking the fun right outta the oil cloth work! I'm
in LA for a couple days (watching my girl play basketball), so I'll check on
the oil cloth when I get back. Hopefully, my house won't be a big charcoal
briquette....<G>
Ymos,
Magpie
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 7/25/01 5:32:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, CTOAKES@aol.com
<BR>writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Burned so fast that it barely damaged the items he had
<BR>in the shelter but his smoothbore now has a two tone stock as the fire
<BR>darkened the wood on the side facing up. So be careful that you keep the
Bidding Update. So far, Hardtack is the high bidder for the "West of Alfred Jacob Miller." His generous bid is $100.00. Anyone interested has until Saturday at 8:00 p.m. to bid.
Thanks for the bids!
"Teton" Todd Glover
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<DIV>Thanks Ralph..... Long time , no see......</DIV>
<DIV> How's you and the family. Did your arm come back 100%? I hope so. I'm suffering some tendon problems, but will get by. Steve McGehee dropped by this evening, and told me he found a website that carries egyptian cotton at 300+ threads per inch. Sounds like some tightly woven cloth. He says it's on his work 'puter, as his home 'puter is down with a virus. Once I get the site, I'll pass on the info. to everyone. He also brought me a frozen solid elk hide, which he got from a friend. In the morning it should be thawed enough to see what I have. I hope it's a good match for the partially processed elk hide that I already have in the freezer. If I'm lucky, the next time you see me I may be wearing a nice brain tanned coat? Wish me luck. Hope to see you soon. Randy</DIV>
