> Any half-brothers in the camp know if those trees enscribed by the Corps
> of Discovery are still there? Would be a mighty powerful period rush to
> be there on Nov.24, 2005. Maybe the spirits of Clark and others could
> get permission from God The Great Spirit Father to briefly visit from
> the Eternal Blue Sky Land. Maybe 24-48 hours without food and water by
> all 3-4 weeks before would cause this to happen? (at same time asking
> Great Spirit Father in the name of His Only Son to hear our loud heart
> cries to Him). Big Medicine?
>
I read in an old Nat. Geo. years ago that the 'CCC' boys cut many of the older trees around this old site, general cleanup for fire prevention back in the 30's. Possibly some of the marked trees went then. Another government project with no reference to history or future purpose.
I was at the ribbon cutting for Bent's Fort in 1972 (before the new fort was built). Our Governor at the time Dick Lamb he told several of us if it hadn't been for local farmers and some town folks protecting the 10-14 inch foundation walls, this fort's foot print would have been plowed under.
He also said that the local historical society had been after our elected officials to do something for over 40 years, that would be the time of the 'CCC' start up.
Some friends from Germany are amazed at how we as a country distroy or sell our heritage, guess they try to keep as much as possible of theirs.
Later,
Buck Conner
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> None of the trees inscribed by members of the Corps of Discovery are still
> standing, having gone the way of big timber throughout much of the West.
>
> The only remnant that marks the passage of the Corps of Discovery is William
> Clark's characteristic and readily identifiable scratched signature on
> Pompey's Pillar (Tower) just east of Billings, Montana.
>
> John
>
> Dr. John L. Allen
> 21 Thomas Drive
> Storrs, CT 06268
> 860/487-1346
> johnlallen@uconn.cted.net
>
Doc,
If you ever get a chance to go to Washington MO, check with me and I'll get you a name or two that can show you "Tavern Cave", the one Lewis & Clark stayed in for a period of time. Has ORDWAY's name and several others scribed into the walls, only thing that has saved them (their names) is it's location and over the years water has deepened the cave making the name about 10 foot off the muddy floor now.
Later,
Buck Conner
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I have been holding on to your request for names of trappers for your upcoming book. While many have given you their list already, I hope my input is not too late. There are many colorful characters to write about and the ones I would choose are( in no special order):
old Bill Willaims
Jedediah Smith
Jim Bridger
One or more of the Bent Brothers
Willaim Ashley
John Coulter
John Smith
Etienne Provost
George Ruxton
Laura, thse are a wide mix of men. Some regular trappers- others important in other areas (writers, fort builders and guides) and which cover the whole time frame. They are are very colorful characters, easy to write about and INTERESTING. All are not well known or if they are only about part of their lives. Anyway, hope this is a help. The area of writing you are doing this on
is of interest for me, since I started my interest in history as a young boy of maybe 7 or 8 picking up a book on Kit Carson in the school library. Good Luck.
mike.
Laura Glise wrote:
> 6:00 p.m. PST
>
> I would like help from the list with my latest project.
>
> I am writing a non-fiction book for young adults (interest level grade 4 and up) on the American fur trade. As an educator I know first-hand that most history books for young adults skip from Lewis and Clark to the Oregon Trail. Textbooks skip this important time in our nation's history and, with the exception of Bridger and maybe Beckworth, there aren't biographies on the shelves.
>
> Part of the book will include biographies on 7-10 trappers.
>
> I am interested in list member's opinions on which mountaineers should be included. Please contact me off the list with your ideas
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my request. I had not received a nomination for one or more of the Bent Brothers, or George Ruxton. I will study their lives with interest.
It pleases me to hear your comment that you became a lover of history at seven or eight. With no prior desire to teach, I became an educator and a children's librarian. When my young boys were in first grade they wanted books on jellyfish and fire house dogs. When the same young boys became young men they wanted adventure and "disaster" books. I say they wanted, more accurately, they craved, stories of courage, adventure, and bravery.
This may, indeed, be off topic. But I see a hunger in children, especially boys, for what was once categorized as growing up . . . . proudly carrying a pocket knife, popping a firecracker, playing cowboys and Indians. All these things are now politically incorrect and subversive. Leaves little room for the imagination, and a proud place for the body to grow into.
I promised the boys I mentored that before they got out of high school I would write a book for them that would help them grow up. I can't really think of a better way than educating them in the ways that young trappers grew into men, confronting adversity and fear, in the face. Our children now face a different fear but many do not learn, at home, how to look down the barrel.
Thank you again for your nominations.
Laura Glise
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There was one more point I wanted to make in my reference to the young boys that are trying to grow into men now . . . many of them are growing up without men in their lives. Grandfathers or fathers. Only males that drop into and out of their lives all too quickly. A watered down lineage that breaks the heart. It's hard to grow into manhood without a proper role model. Even an inspiring book about mountaineers and the lives they led doesn't stand up to a firm handshake and the understanding of the concept of what a "man's word" means.
Respectfully submitted,
Laura Glise
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> I have been holding on to your request for names of trappers for your upcoming book. While many have given you their list already, I hope my input is not too late. There are many colorful characters to write about and the ones I would choose are( in no special order):
> old Bill Willaims
> Jedediah Smith
> Jim Bridger
> One or more of the Bent Brothers
> Willaim Ashley
> John Coulter
> John Smith
> Etienne Provost
> George Ruxton
Laura,
When putting your list together for possible characters don't forget the businessmen (if they didn't provide an outlet to move the trappers goods none of this as we know it would have happened). Look at the lives of John Jacob Astor, the Bent's, several that stayed in the east like Tryon (a hardware firm, gun manufacturer and supplier - still in business today)or Saint Louis has several that started in the fur trade and are still going, the ones that where behind the trade it's self.
A good example today, John Jacob Astor (the 6th,7th,8th not sure which number) has been involved with the rebuilding of Ft. Union, he knows where the family wealth was made originally - in the fur trade, then real estate. Seems many of this family have left out the first step in, the fur trade.
Later,
Buck Conner
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?
Date: 05 Dec 1999 08:26:20 -0800
On Sat, 04 December 1999, Concho Smith wrote:
Got a nice 9 point eastern count, I know guys in the west thats a weak 4 point. Don't comment Turtle or Buck, I don't want to hear .....
OH BOY, we shot another baby (only kidding have done the same many times when growing up there), why don't you come and hunt with me in Jan. 2000 Concho, snow to butt, modern season (we still use muzzleloaders anyway), a correct period sled to pull game out with, the whole deal. With any luck an average mulie will be double the size of your PA whitetail, even our whitetails out do their counterparts.
I keep waiting for this Fish & Game Dept. to wakeup and push whitetail hunting and look at a new breeding program like PA did in the late 50's and early 60's with northern white tails, now there's some serious game animals.
> Just took a fast look at the internet and see Wendy has finished your personal page Buck,.......
Have another 25-30 articles to add, then want to start a "family tree" web site as the rest of the bunch sit on their thumbs.
Later,
Buck Conner
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1999 Xmas Greeting from Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
At this wonerful time of the year, remember those of the past and present, loved ones and friends, God Bless them all. We've given you a little history of what was going on with the Corp of Discovery under the direction of Lewis & Clark.
On Christmas Eve, the temperature climbed above zero - and almost above freezing. Fort Mandan was deemed officially complete, and the captains handed out dried apples, pepper, and extra flour for the next day's meal and celebration.
Just before Christmas dawn, the captains were awakened by the men, all if them, Clark noted, "merrily disposed."
************
December 25th, 1804.
We ushed [in] the morning with a discharge of the Swivvel [gun], and one round of Small arms of all the party.
Then another from the Swivvel. Then Capt. Clark presented a glass of brandy to each man of the party. We hoisted the american flag, and each man had another Glass of brandy.
The men prepared one of the rooms and commenced dancing. At 10 o'c [lock] we had another Glass of brandy, at one a gun was fired as a Signal for diner. Half past two another gun was fired to assemble at the dance, and So we kept it up in a jov[ia]l manner untill eight o'c[lock] at night, all without the company of the female Seck [sex]. Joseph Whitehouse
The mandans were asked not to visit the fort on Christmas because, the captains explained, it was a "great medicine" day for the expedition. But on New Year's, the men celebrated with their Indian hosts.
************
January 1st, 1806.
Our repast of this day, tho' better than that of Cristmass, consisted principally in the anticipation of the 1st day of January 1807, when in the bosom of our friends we hope to participate in the mirth and hilarity of the day, and when with the zest given by the recollection of the present, we shall completely, both mentally and corporally, enjoy the repast which the hand of civilization has prepared for us. MERIWETHER LEWIS
Men were put to work making candles, boiling ocean water for salt, preserving elk meat in a smokehouse, and sewing clothes from elk hides for the return trip home.
Clark labored over a new map that would replace eastern speculation with the hard facts of western geography.
Lewis wrote page after page of descriptions of animals and plants unknown to science-from the giant sitka spruce tree to the evergreen huckleberry; from ring-necked ducks and whistling swans to small smelt-the candlefish-that the men roasted and ate whole.
For a new year it seems things are well with our early travelers, fed and full of thoughts of returning home.
In the next life may we experience such an adventure, and may God see us fit enough to handle the chore.
The Conner's
dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
************
Later,
Buck Conner
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I agree about the inclusion of traders, and I also agree that most of their lives were pale in comparison with the lives of trappers.
Lanney loaned me his copy of Fur traders, trappers, and mountain men of the Upper Missouri/edited by LeRoy R. Hafen, introduction to the Bison edition by Scott Eckberg. I enjoyed reading about Frances Ermatinger's style, and have followed his footsteps in Oregon and visited the home that Chief Factor McLoughlin built for him in Oregon City.
I also enjoyed reading about David Dawson Mitchell. Do you know he got the $1,000 he needed for supplies for his men by escorting a wealthy senora to a ball? Perks the imagination doesn't it?
Kenneth McKenzie of the American Fur Company, Head of the Upper Missouri outfit's hospitality of serving iced wine in buckets to his guests.
And, I know Dennis Miles will enjoy this one - William Laidlaw, described by Audubon as a "true Scot and apparently a clean one."
Laura Glise
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> Being a horse poor mountaineer that travels by foot and occasionally by
> canoe, can anyone tell me what type of pack was most common for during the
> 1820-1840 era. All the info I can find on packs refer to the type used
> during the French and Indian War, were these still being used? Any info
> would be greatly appreciated. See you down the trail.
> Mick
MICK,
MANY WILL QUOTE THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF BACKPACKS, HAVERSACKS, PACK BASKETS, SADDLE BAGS, ETC. (ACCORDING TO LAST SIMILAR QUESTION ON THE SAME). THE ONE ITEM NOT MENTIONED BEFORE AND ONE I HAVE FOUND WORKS VERY NICE WHETHER ON HORSE, OR WATER VESSIL IS A PORT-MAN-TOU (EXCUSE THE SPELLING). WITH THIS UNIT AND A BEDROLL I CAN CARRY EVERYTHING OTHER THAN SHOOTING BAG, CANTEEN AND SMALL HAVERSACK WITH DAY RATIONS - ALL OF WHICH ARE HUNG FROM THE SHOULDERS IN A CROSSED ARRANGEMENT.
BOTH THE BEDROLL AND THE PORT-MAN-TOU LAY SIDE BY SIDE EQUALLING THE LOAD IN A CANOE, PLUS THE MAN-TOU IS EASY TO RETRIEVE ITEMS FROM.
FOR SHORT DISTANCES IT'S NOT BAD TO CARRY BEDROLL ON ONE SHOULDER AND THE PORT-MAN-TOU ON THE OTHER WHEN MOVING INTO A CAMP WITHIN A 1/2 MILE OR SO FROM IRON MULE. OTHERWISE I USE A PAIR OF LARGER HAVERSACKS WITH BEDROLL ROLLED AND TIED ENDS TOGETHER TO BE CARRIED OVER SHOULDER LEAVING HANDS FREE FOR RIFLE, ETC.
Later,
Buck Conner
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Subject: MtMan-List: A book review / a must have book.
Date: 07 Dec 1999 07:06:01 -0800
Members,
Over the last few years we have seen a few members author several books, tapes, etc. of which have been interviewed from time to time. We have a few of these folks still with us and several have moved on to other lists for one reason or another.
One gentleman that is a regular on the Hist_list with wonderful references, great documented information and so on - is Dr. John L. Allen. John is a student of Lewis & Clark and has traveled in their footsteps in an attempt to experience these gentlemen's lives and the lives of the Corps of Discovery members, as has several of us done over the years.
Dr. Allen wrote a book about these gentlemen and their adventure, yet I have never seen anything about this great resource book, well written, with 47 maps and a wealth of information on this event. This is a "must" have book for any reenacter's library that's involved in the development of land west of the Mississippi, western travel, the fur trade or westward movement.
The name of this book is:
"LEWIS AND CLARK AND THE IMAGE OF THE AMERICAN NORTHWEST" by John Logan Allen.
Dover Publications, Inc., New York # 0-486-26914-0 (pbk.)
Originally published in 1975 and now the Dover edition, published 1991 is a gem that I, myself have over looked for some unknown reason, now found and feel that you too, should be made aware of this important information and guide that follows these captains across this great country.
This book focuses on Lewis and Clark's epic journey of 1804-1806, following the expedition over the Rocky Mountains to the coast with information on the maps, plants, wildlife, etc. - wait until you see the detail on these maps.
This would be a great Christmas present, pick one up for that special person or for yourself (that's a must do).
John have you written anything else, I hope this wasn't the only one, brother you did an excellent piece of work. I started reading your book last night and had to be told to go to bed (like a kid), hope this short review is with your approval, you should be very proud of this, I'm proud we the folks on this list know you through this list.
Thank you for making my day, this is great reading.
Later,
Buck Conner
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Well put, we all have been there, but for some reason some seem to forget - everyone has to crawl before they walk and then run - remember this.
Over the last forty years I have had some of the best garage sales, moving out items that I thought where really great and later found to be the wrong time period, or just wrong - period. I can take comfort in knowing that I told the buyer that was for such and such a period, or not correct if wanting to use it for such and such - be honest, just don't pass it on to a new person.
When we stop learning or helping others in this sport, I'll move on.
Later,
Buck Conner
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> Don't worry, Mr Colburn, it isn't likely that you will be asked to participate in our little "fraternity initiation", not in my party anyway. <snip> He left this world the same way he lived in it....full of himself and completely unaware of the low regard in which he was held by all with whom he came in contact. I always wondered what color the sky was in his world.
Brother Ratcliff,
You take the words right out of my mouth! I remain....
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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A little off topic but a great Christmas story for the boys, and one you'll enjoy.
HereÆs a true story that happen just yesterday in the Littleton, Colorado area, not the usual Columbine
thing again.
I was reading the local paper this morning and about 7-8 pages front the front was a small article about a Hair Saloon being robbed last night around 6:30 PM.
I took a second look at the address, hell thatÆs the wifeÆs place she goes to, and weÆre going there after work for her to get her hair trimmed. The article didnÆt give much detail other than the bad guys where white in their late twenties.
When she goes for her hair cuts, trims, etc., I usually sit in the truck and watch the young ladies go in and out of the shop, a pleasing past time and with the dark windows you donÆt get the dirty looks. I know "dirty old man".
Well tonight I had to go in to hear about what happened last night, the young lady at the counter was more than willing to tell her exciting tale.
HereÆs what happened: there where about a half dozen gals counting the ones that work there, busy with whatever they do in these places - when two white males wearing sunglasses come into the place. They sit down watch what's going on then pull guns (still sitting) and have everyone line up in front of them, they collect all the money and credit cards, then the good part.
These young gentlemen are thinkers, they have the whole group disrobe, putting their clothes on a sheet. They have everyone stand in a group and bring out a digital camera and take a few pictures. They thanks all the ladies, gather up the money, credit cards and the clothes and walk out.
The young lady said the first thing they did was lock the door, turn out the lights and hide behind the counter. Finally someone says ôcall the copsö, but decided to call their spouces first for clothes then call the police.
She said after being clothed and the police came, they had decided the insurance would cover everyoneÆs losts and when questioned gave a very bland description of the holdup men.
She said they where worried about the police getting hold of those pictures, more than those guys being caught.
She figured they could have walked 10 miles before the cops got there.
"Damn it, a day late and dollar short again".
Later,
Buck Conner
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Here's what we have used for years, original recipe was written in 1830's, passed down before then and later recorded, modified for modern process in the 1930's.
(5) oz. of chipped beef, (1) 6 1/2 oz. of roasted peanuts, (1) cup of seedless raisins, (1) 8 oz. bar of beef suet, make a quick trail lunch / high energy.
Dry beef on a cookie sheet for 20 minutes @ 140 degree
oven, chop nuts and raisins up into small pieces, melt suet in a large skillet - low heat. Combine dry ingredients in a mixing bowl (beef cut in 1/4ö shreds), add melted suet - mix thoroughly. Spread mixture in half inch layer in shallow pan, refrigerate until the layer is hard and then slice into squares.
Wrapped in foil, bars stay clean and fresh, will keep for a year in freezer.
This was rewritten in the 1930Æs for use in a hunting camp in Pennsylvania, the original 1840Æs recipe has been lost in the passage of time.
L.N.Conner,Jr.,Milroy,Pa.,1937
__________________________________________
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Buck Conner
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Subject: MtMan-List: Sheep skins that need help. [OFF TOPIC]
Date: 26 Dec 1999 08:20:46 -0800
Help needed.
Seems to be a little slow on the hist_list right now, enclosed is part of a letter I received, this young lady has a problem with several sheep hides and needs some suggestions on how to save them.
Any ideas, I contacted the Denver Natural Histroy Museum, but haven't heard back with the Holidays, etc., (these hides have the wool on them), we have covered brain tan to commerical, so someone should have an idea on restoring life to old/new hides that are stiff I would think.
I would appreciate it very much if I could get some information on how to restore some sheepskin pelts that my Sister-In-Law WASHED AND DRIED in her machines!!! They are still in one piece, but the leather is dried out and brittle.
I had heard of a way that the Cree used to restore hides and leather products using fats/or lanolin with cornmeal and rubbing it briskly with a rolling pin....
Hopefully, this method makes sense to you? I do have lots of lanolin as I make my own soaps and I definitely would like to see these skins restored for her, but I would prefer to try to do it myself.
I was thinking that maybe if I could slowly steam some moisture back into the hide until it was more supple, then I could work in the lanolin to help retain some of the moisture after the hide dried.
I have read some of the old pioneering techniques on tanning hides, but there is very little out there other than people trying to sell me their miracle chemicals for a fortune! That is definitely not for me, I do not buy from the internet as I cannot actually see and smell the products offered, and I am tired of these "miracle" products when there are more natural methods that work so much better!
Could you please forward me any information you might have gathered?
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Sheep skins that need help. [OFF TOPIC]
Date: 26 Dec 1999 11:05:06 -0800
Buck wrote:
>
> Help needed.
Buck,
I assume you told her about how brain tan hides, etc. are worked to make
them dry soft and not turn to rawhide again? I really can't think of any
thing other than getting some water soluble tanning oil and spraying it
onto the back side of the pelts mixed with water and carefully working
the leather until it softens up. I don't think there is any easy way to
restore these other than infusing with lanolin or other appropriate oils
and working the hides. Hopefully they are not "fried" but just stiff.
She could make or have made a simple breaking board of 1X6 with a sharp
rounded chisel shape at the upper end and mounted vertically so as to be
waist high. That would facilitate the breaking and working of the
leather side after it is moistened and oiled. (I think a combination of
oil and moisture will be required to break the hide again).
The "Cree" method might work, though I still think moisture is needed.
And caution her that steam or any heat is the absolute last thing she
should use. Tumbling in a cold dryer after they have been moistened with
oil and water might ease the labor of softening but I think it will
require a modified "breaking" action, per the board.
I'm sorry but I do not remember where I came up with the tanning oil I
have but it was/is available. I've had my gal. can for 25 years. I
remain........
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
>
> Seems to be a little slow on the hist_list right now, enclosed is part of a letter I received, this young lady has a problem with several sheep hides and needs some suggestions on how to save them.
>
> Any ideas, I contacted the Denver Natural Histroy Museum, but haven't heard back with the Holidays, etc., (these hides have the wool on them), we have covered brain tan to commerical, so someone should have an idea on restoring life to old/new hides that are stiff I would think.
> I would appreciate it very much if I could get some information on how to restore some sheepskin pelts that my Sister-In-Law WASHED AND DRIED in her machines!!! They are still in one piece, but the leather is dried out and brittle.
>
> I had heard of a way that the Cree used to restore hides and leather products using fats/or lanolin with cornmeal and rubbing it briskly with a rolling pin....
>
> Hopefully, this method makes sense to you? I do have lots of lanolin as I make my own soaps and I definitely would like to see these skins restored for her, but I would prefer to try to do it myself.
>
> I was thinking that maybe if I could slowly steam some moisture back into the hide until it was more supple, then I could work in the lanolin to help retain some of the moisture after the hide dried.
>
> I have read some of the old pioneering techniques on tanning hides, but there is very little out there other than people trying to sell me their miracle chemicals for a fortune! That is definitely not for me, I do not buy from the internet as I cannot actually see and smell the products offered, and I am tired of these "miracle" products when there are more natural methods that work so much better!
>
> Could you please forward me any information you might have gathered?
> It's been a long time since I've really tried to find good data on coffee
> during the fur trade, but it seems to me that when I was doing research in
> that or adjacent areas, water or tea was the most often mentioned
> non-alcoholic beverage. It made sense to me because tea is less bulky to
> pack, easier to prepare, and at that time, perhaps more readily available.
> Tea was also reputed to have some medicinal properties.
> Bill C
___________________________________________
Bill,
As you say tea was very popular, I was searching for information about ôCeylon Teaö as I found a wooden box at an estate sale with these words on it and a date of 1837, hereÆs what I found for theöTea Drinkersö, this is just a short history on one type.
Starting from the 16th century,establishment of plantations of export crops like cinnamon, later also coffee and
coconut, were encouraged by the colonial governments in Sri Lanka and started to suppress the traditional system
of peasant agriculture. The tropical island of Sri Lanka southeast of the Indian subcontinent offers ideal climatic
conditions for tea (Ceylon) and rice cultivation which led to a history of highly developed hydraulic civilizations in
the dry zone lowlands. The wet zone and highlands in the southwest constitute the core area of plantation agriculture because of environmental conditions suitable to support a variety of perennial commercial crops. After 1870 tea was established to replace coffee which succumbed to a virulent fungus.
Ceylon tea has been acclaimed as the best tea in the world for over several centuries. The Sri Lankan climate varies tremendously from the central highlands to the southern plains. These varying climatic conditions impart distinct flavors and aromas on our teas.
Later,
Buck Conner
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> Just have to chime in on the current thread on account of the fact that way
> back when, I did some research on coffee during the fur trade. here's what
> I've got...
>
> The standard coffee of the fur trade from 1800 to 1840 was green Rio. Rio
> was a designation for any Brazilian coffee imported from Rio de Janerio,
> and green meant it simply wasn't roasted. Very little roasting was done
> commercially at that time. (Today, Oro is common at stores)
>
> Even in cities, restaurants and individuals did the roasting just before
> use to preserve the flavor.
>
> Within decades of the American Revolution. coffee became a major trade item
> on the frontier, along with gunpowder, lead, sugar, tobacco and whiskey.
>
> Jim Beckwourth (Beckwith) described the first Rendezvous in 1825: "On
> arriving at the rendezvous we found the main body of the Salt Lake party
> already there with the whole of their effects. The General (Ashley) would
> open none of his goods, except tobacco until all had arrived, as he wished
> to make an equal distribution; for goods were then scarce in the mountains
> and hard to obtain. When all had come in, he opened his goods, and there
> was a general jubilee among all at the rendezvous. We constituted quite a
> little town, numbering at least eight hundred souls, of whom one half were
> women and children. There were some among us who had not seen any groceries
> such as coffee, sugar & c. for several months."
>
> In 1832 coffee and sugar found their way into the standard US Army ration.
> This did not come about because of congressional action, but was ordered by
> President Andrew Jackson, who was upset by the inability of congress to act
> on the matter.
>
> Although out of the fur trade period, This excerpt from a Civil War diary
> by William Forse Scott of the Fourth Iwoa Veteran Volunteers is appropriate
> enough:
>
> "If there had been reverence enough for a new religion, it's gods would
> have been fire and coffee. For next to fire, the one thing indespensible to
> the soldiers was coffee. There must have been very many, who when they
> enlisted were not in the habit of drinking it or drank very little; but
> camp life soon made it a neccessity to all. The active campaigner was sure
> to take it as often as he could get it; no other article of food or drink
> could approach it in value in the estimation of a man who had to march or
> work by day or watch by night. Tea was part of the army ration, but there
> was little demand for it, and the commissarys in the field were seldom
> provided with it. Fortunately, as coffee in the berries could not be easily
> adulterated, and it's bulk was comparitively not great, the army nearly
> always had it in fair quality and sufficient quality.
>
> BTW the first vaccum packed- groung roast was introduced by Hills Bros in 1900.
>
> And as for grinders, forts and military outposts usually had them, but no
> documentation I have seen places them in the field during the RM fur trade.
>
> Barkin Dawg- Y1.83 ready!
__________________________________________
Vic,
A little history found on the internet about coffee; A sheep herder named Kaldi started it all in 850 AD. He wanted to know what could be responsible for the "queer antics of his flock." Fearing his sheep possessed, Kaldi paid close observation from high on the
mountain and watched as his herd nibbled red berries from the branch of a strange tree.
Upon closer inspection he discovered the sheep eating berries from a new leaf. When he sampled the berry himself, he felt a surge of exhilaration and rushed to tell the local imam. That night the two shared a
concoction made of the berries, pranced around, and generally got pretty tanked on caffeine. When they finally dozed off, Mohammed appeared to the imam and said the berries enhanced wakefulness and wakefulness
promoted prayer. Prayer, counseled Mohammed, was better than sleep.
Sooner than you can say percolate, the imam and his monastery became famous throughout Arabia for the spirited praying of its coffee-drinking brethren. Soon others in the old world were clamoring for the newly
discovered bean.
Although legend credits Kaldi with the find, some suspect that coffee was around long before him. But no one bothered to give it a proper noun. Among other tales of coffee lore, the Bible relates that Abigail brought to David "five measures of parched corn," which some believe to be coffee. Hippocrates is said to have collected all the herbs of his time and coffee, under another name perhaps, was included in this collection. The "black broth" of the Lacedaemonians was a strong, well-boiled brew.
Whatever its origins, the black broth is now ingested by over a third of the world's population and, centuries later, continues to promote queer antics.
Source where found at:
http://cogsum.com/coffee6.html
Later,
Buck Conner
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Subject: MtMan-List: Personal Safety & Security [OFF TOPIC]
Date: 30 Dec 1999 10:03:59 -0800
------- Start of forwarded message -------
We received this information this morning, mostly common sense that we should all remember, and practice, so consider it a reminder to be alert this weekend or any weekend, as we should anytime we're out of our normal surroundings.
Thanks.
Buck
_________________________________________________
While this is a special weekend, it is really no different than any other large celebration that you or your family might participate in.
Based on that premise the following offers a few ideas to take forth with you on the Y2K weekend and any other special event or celebration you may attend.
Remember:
The first thing to remember is that your personal safety at work, at home, at a celebration, is first and foremost your responsibility. Even if you can't control the external environment around you, you can still take steps to avoid becoming a victim.
On the streets:
There will be certain locations in major metropolitan areas that will draw large crowds of people celebrating the New Year. These locations will not only attract people celebrating but also those who would take
advantage of large crowds to commit crimes against individuals and businesses. The crimes can range from picking a pocket to looting.
So, what can you do to avoid falling prey to these individuals?
Know what your community is doing about restricting on street parking near the event you plan to attend. If parking is restricted check with local parking lots to ensure they will be open to the public.
Park as near as you can to the event or building you are going to. Park in well lit areas if it is dark when you arrive or when you plan to return to your car. Avoid parking near large vehicles (Vans. Etc.),
or other objects which can limit your visibility. Before exiting the vehicle, know what is going on outside. Your doors should still be locked. Check your side view mirrors and do a 360 degree look around
the vehicle. Trust your instincts! If you are uncomfortable do not get out, leave and find another parking place.
Be aware of what you are leaving in your vehicle. Don't leave items of value in view, such as CD's, cassettes and packages you are planning to return afterChristmas. They are attractive to potential thieves and should be locked in the trunk.
Once you're out of the vehicle walk confidently at a steady pace with your head up. Be alert to activity in the area. Look at individuals near you. You do not have to look them in the eye, but be able to identify them. This can be a deterrent to some potential perpetrators. Distracted or tentative pedestrians spell victim.
Avoid using alleys and other more isolated routes to your destination. It may take a little longer to walk the main streets but crime is less likely to occur in these areas.
When returning to your vehicle have your keys in hand. Approach the car from an angle looking underneath and around it. Before opening the door check the floor in the front and rear seat areas. Once in the car, lock the door before putting on your seat belt. Stick to main streets avoiding less traveled routes to and from home. Plan on possible delays due to impromptu street parties or unplanned street closures. Check the radio for local information prior to leaving home and frequently while traveling to your destination. If possible, have your cellular telephone with you. Plan alternate routes to your destination just in case you need them.
If you determine you are being followed, don't drive home. There will more police officers on duty than usual. Look for an officer directing traffic or a patrol car, then flash your lights at them. If you cannot locate one go to the nearest police or fire station and honk your horn. If that is not possible, drive to an open gas station or other business where you can safely call the police. Don't leave your car unless you
know you can get inside the building safely. Try to get the license number and description of the car following you. Again, if possible, have a cellular phone in your car to use in emergency situations.
If possible, use an alternate source of transportation such as a bus or taxicab. Plan on early arrival and late departure.
Check out what the hours of operation will be for businesses such as restaurants and other establishments near the event. If crowd control becomes a problem you may want to seek out one of these locations to wait it out.
Additionally, when you are in large crowds like the ones you may encounter on New Years Eve, consider the following:
It is best to have a minimum amount of valuables on your person in a large crowd. Place your cash in a front pocket. Women should avoid carrying a purse that does not have a strap to hold onto. If possible,
they should not carry a purse. Don't flash large amounts of money in public places. Don't wear necklaces and chains that can be yanked off you.
Be alert to a changing atmosphere in the crowd.
A large group of people in a confined space can turn from a celebrating group to an angry bunch of people, to a mob in a relatively short period of time. This can happen for a number of reasons; Law Enforcement may
have imposed some unwanted restriction; panic; a fight between individuals
or gang members; or actions by someone with an agenda to create an opportunity for easy theft. Whatever the reason, you should position yourself for a quick exit from the area.
Avoid locations in the path of the crowd. People may panic and you could be trampled or mistaken for a troublemaker by police.
Avoid locations near locked doorways or building walls that a swelling crowd could trap you against.
Where should you be when faced with a crowd?
Locate yourself near intersections or exits that allow you the opportunity to back away quickly and easily. This is not the time
to be in the middle of a large crowd.
Comply with instructions given by Law Enforcement Officers conducting crowd control. Some people think because they are not doing anything wrong they don't have to move when police officers direct them to do
so. This is a big mistake. Officers will not have time to determine who is an observer and who is not. (FOLLOW THE LAWFUL DIRECTIONS GIVEN TO YOU BY LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THIS SITUATION).
Arrange for a meeting place in the event that you are separated from your party.
At home:
Many municipal governments are recommending people prepare for the Y2K weekend like they would for a winter storm. Have extra milk, water, food and any necessary medication on hand. Additionally have a little extra cash and fill your automobiles up with gasoline.
As always, make sure all the entrances and windows to your home can be locked securely, especially sliding glass doors. Then use the locks. Never leave your house unlocked. Be sure all the doors you cannot see are locked. Make sure your garage door is closed.
If possible, find a reputable alarm service and have the appropriate security and exterior lighting system installed at your residence. Install peepholes in your doors that provide 180-degree visibility, including the door to your garage. Ensure shrubs and trees do not block views of your windows and doors from the street.
Do not let strangers in your home, especially if you're alone, even if they claim there is a dire emergency. Instead, offer to make an
emergency call for them while they wait outside. Avoid giving the impression you are home alone if strangers telephone or come to
the door. If you do live alone, it's a good idea to use only your last name and initials on mailboxes and in telephone directories.
If you return home and find obvious evidence of forced entry or if a door/window is open that shouldn't be, do not go inside. Go to the nearest phone and call the police.
In some geographic areas individuals will fire weapons in the air during the New Year celebration. What they apparently don't realize is that what goes up must come down. Not only is it against the law, but damage or injury can occur, so don't fire a weapon in the air and avoid being around people who do.
In the motel or hotel:
Thieves count on people celebrating to be less attentive to security. Be careful.
Don't leave your luggage unattended. Check your baggage with the staff if you can't go to your room immediately.
Keep your extra valuables locked in the hotel safe and inventory your belongings kept in the room every day. Use all available auxiliary- locking devices when occupying or leaving your room.
Know who is knocking before you open the door. Report any suspicious activity in the corridors or rooms to management. If someone is loitering in the hall near your room, do not enter your room. Instead, go directly to the front desk and report it. Never enter the room if the door is ajar and do not sit in your room with the door propped open.
Don't leave the door open for any length of time, even if you're just going to the ice machine.
NOTE: While nothing is 100% guaranteed, if you follow the above points the odds of you becoming a victim to crime will be greatly reduced.
When necessary call the police and if it is an emergency dial 911, and remember to report all security concerns related to work to COMPANY Security at ...........
------- End of forwarded message -------
Better to be safe, than sorry.
Later,
Buck Conner
_________________________________
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Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: dead horse gun discussion
Date: 30 Dec 1999 19:56:39 -0700
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I think that most of us would agree that the firearms used by the average
citizens in the 1830's were the same as those used by the militia of the same
time period. We have an example of the state taking the rights of it's citizens
to keep and bear arms and its consequences right here in the U.S. 1838 in the
state of Missouri, Governor Boggs required all Mormons to surrender their
firearms to the State. After complying with the order the Mormons were then
barred from voting. The Governor then signed an extermination order against the
Mormons. On the 30 of Oct. 1838 a small Mormon community called Haun's Mill was
attacked under Boggs orders and 19 Mormons were killed and 12 were wounded. The
Mormons leadership was arrested and ordered by Boggs to be shot by firing squad.
Certain non mormons in the Missouri militia prevented this act. This
unbelievable act happened in the US were such acts are not supposed to happen and
are supposed to be protected. My fear is that these rights are all but gone and
that we will shortly see an increase and renewal of human right violations
occuring in this country under the guise of State Protection !
Forrest #1691
David Woodbury wrote:
> At 4:52 AM +0000 12/29/99, John Dearing wrote:
> >I do believe the point of this reference was to illustrate how
> >registering firearms, "just so the government would know who owned
> >them" can be, and was used to find out where those firearms were,
> >then forced the owners to turn them in or to become criminals.
>
> Sorry to keep dragging this out, but the "point" of the reference was
> the concluding comment in the message to which I responded. Summing
> up the reference, Texan said:
> "What is happening in California is evidence
> of what is called encroachment, which has as
> its eventual goal the law abiding citizen being
> completely disarmed."
>
> Incidentally, if I read Texan's excerpt correctly, the only people
> being asked to turn in guns were those who already owned these
> so-called military style firearms, but who failed to register them in
> the 2+ years allotted. Whether or not you agree that the Attorney
> General had the authority to tell people they could register them
> after that 1992 date (evidently a court disagreed), the fact remains
> that the state of California allowed everyone to *keep* their
> weapons, except those who failed to meet the extraordinarily generous
> deadline (between 1989 and 1992, according to Texan's excerpt).
>
> >Any registration scheme can, and based on recent history, will be
> >used for the purpose of confiscation.
>
> Seems to me it is just the opposite. Is there anything you can point
> me to which shows a trend toward confiscating the registered weapons
> of citizens? The example used here deals with 1,600 guns that the
> owners originally failed to register by the deadline (I think the
> Johnny-come-latelys did get screwed, but they could easily have
> avoided the problem by complying with the law initially). But surely
> the millions of registered weapons in this country have remained
> legally secure in their owners' possession just as long as they were
> legally registered. What recent history are you referring to
> (admittedly, it's not something I follow very closely).
>
> >I do believe the Second Amendment contains the phrase "the right of
> >the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed", according
> >to the Thordike Barnhart Dictionary, an infringement is anything
> >that hinders, violates, encroaches upon, or intrudes upon, in this
> >case, the lawful ownership of firearms.
>
> And the courts, in light of the *entire* sentence (referencing
> militias), have consistently ruled that the amendment in no way
> suggests an inalienable personal right for a citizen to possess
> whatever weaponry they wish without some legislative constraints.
>
> >That means that the government does not have the legitimate
> >authority to, in any way, restrict the ownership of firearms to it's
> >law abiding citizens.
>
> That's one interpretation. Just not the one that most courts have arrived at.
>
> David
>
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<html>
I think that most of us would agree that the firearms used by the average
citizens in the 1830's were the same as those used by the militia
of the same time period. We have an example of the state taking the rights
of it's citizens to keep and bear arms and its consequences right here
in the U.S. 1838 in the state of Missouri, Governor Boggs required
all Mormons to surrender their firearms to the State. After complying
with the order the Mormons were then barred from voting. The Governor
then signed an extermination order against the Mormons. On the 30
of Oct. 1838 a small Mormon community called Haun's Mill was attacked under
Boggs orders and 19 Mormons were killed and 12 were wounded. The
Mormons leadership was arrested and ordered by Boggs to be shot by firing
squad. Certain non mormons in the Missouri militia prevented this
act. This unbelievable act happened in the US were such acts are
not supposed to happen and are supposed to be protected. My fear
is that these rights are all but gone and that we will shortly see an increase
and renewal of human right violations occuring in this country under the
guise of State <b><u>Protection</u></b> !
<p>Forrest #1691
<p>David Woodbury wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>At 4:52 AM +0000 12/29/99, John Dearing wrote:
<br>>I do believe the point of this reference was to illustrate how
<br>>registering firearms, "just so the government would know who owned
<br>>them" can be, and was used to find out where those firearms were,
<br>>then forced the owners to turn them in or to become criminals.
<p>Sorry to keep dragging this out, but the "point" of the reference was
<br>the concluding comment in the message to which I responded. Summing
<br>up the reference, Texan said:
<br> "What is happening in California is
evidence
<br> of what is called encroachment, which
has as
<br> its eventual goal the law abiding citizen
being
<br> completely disarmed."
<p>Incidentally, if I read Texan's excerpt correctly, the only people
<br>being asked to turn in guns were those who already owned these
<br>so-called military style firearms, but who failed to register them
in
<br>the 2+ years allotted. Whether or not you agree that the Attorney
<br>General had the authority to tell people they could register them
<br>after that 1992 date (evidently a court disagreed), the fact remains
<br>that the state of California allowed everyone to *keep* their
<br>weapons, except those who failed to meet the extraordinarily generous
<br>deadline (between 1989 and 1992, according to Texan's excerpt).
<p>>Any registration scheme can, and based on recent history, will be
<br>>used for the purpose of confiscation.
<p>Seems to me it is just the opposite. Is there anything you can point
<br>me to which shows a trend toward confiscating the registered weapons
<br>of citizens? The example used here deals with 1,600 guns that the
<br>owners originally failed to register by the deadline (I think the
<br>Johnny-come-latelys did get screwed, but they could easily have
<br>avoided the problem by complying with the law initially). But surely
<br>the millions of registered weapons in this country have remained
<br>legally secure in their owners' possession just as long as they were
<br>legally registered. What recent history are you referring to
<br>(admittedly, it's not something I follow very closely).
<p>>I do believe the Second Amendment contains the phrase "the right of
<br>>the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed", according
<br>>to the Thordike Barnhart Dictionary, an infringement is anything
<br>>that hinders, violates, encroaches upon, or intrudes upon, in this
<br>>case, the lawful ownership of firearms.
<p>And the courts, in light of the *entire* sentence (referencing
<br>militias), have consistently ruled that the amendment in no way
<br>suggests an inalienable personal right for a citizen to possess
<br>whatever weaponry they wish without some legislative constraints.
<p>>That means that the government does not have the legitimate
<br>>authority to, in any way, restrict the ownership of firearms to it's
<br>>law abiding citizens.
<p>That's one interpretation. Just not the one that most courts have arrived
at.
<p>David
<p>----------------------
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</html>
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