I was told this was an active list, been on it for several days and have seen very little on discussions of the fur trade or anything else for that matter. Is everyone at camp's, rendezvous' or on a vacation ?
Let discuss some fur trade, rendezvous or ones coming up.
Hello, HELLO.
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> I was told this was an active list, been on it for several days and have seen very little on discussions of the fur trade or anything else for that matter. Is everyone at camp's, rendezvous' or on a vacation ?
>
> Let discuss some fur trade, rendezvous or ones coming up.
>
> Hello, HELLO.
>
> D. L. Smith
> Washington, MO.
Hey Concho,
Was just replying to Senator Bob Smith, United States Senator (I-NH) - that's been standing up for our gun rights in the US Senate.
Happened to check my mail and see you HELLO message, it does get real silent at times on some of these lists - probably like you said with other activities.
Let me give you and those out there something to read - a reply from Senator Bob Smith on an e-mail I sent him on him making a "stand" for us.
> Mr. Conner,
>
> I want you to know of my strong opposition to S. 254, the Violent
> and Repeat Juvenile Offender Accountability and Rehabilitation Act of
> 1999. I voted against that bill because I believe that the gun
> control amendments to it that were adopted by the Senate will do
> lasting damage to the fundamental right to keep and bear arms, which
> is guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the
> United States.
>
> I filibustered against this bill being sent to a Senate-House
> conference committee. If the final version of the bill still includes
> gun control, then I will filibuster it again. I thought you would
> appreciate knowing this in view of your previously-expressed concerns.
>
> I am outraged that the gun control lobby in this country took
> advantage of the tragedy earlier this year at Littleton, Colorado, to
> mount an unprecedented assault on the Second Amendment rights of
> law-abiding gun owners. They cast blame on law-abiding gun owners,
> while leaving the movie moguls and video game makers who promote
> wanton violence to children virtually unscathed.
>
> I am also disappointed by some of my conservative colleagues here
> in the Senate. I spent a great deal of time, over the two weeks that
> the Senate debated S. 254, arguing privately with these colleagues and
> trying to persuade them to hold the line against this onslaught of gun
> control amendments. Sadly, I was not successful. Nevertheless, I am
> proud to have stood up for the Second Amendment, even, in one case,
> when I was only one of two Senators to vote against a gun control
> amendment to S. 254.
>
> I am particularly angered by what the Senate voted to do with
> respect to gun shows. Sadly, it seems evident to me that the
> practical effect of the Lautenberg Amendment, adopted when Vice
> President Gore cast the tie-breaking vote, will be effectively to ruin
> gun shows -- to put them out of business. This, unfortunately, seems
> to me to be the aim of the Lautenberg Amendment.
>
> I am also deeply concerned about the effects of the so-called
> "trigger lock" amendment. Even though the amendment appears only to
> require trigger locks to be sold with guns, the legal effect of the
> amendment may well be to do great damage to the Second Amendment
> rights of law-abiding gun owners. This is because courts may construe
> the amendment as creating a new civil negligence standard under
> which gun owners will be seen as having a legal obligation to use their
> trigger locks or face legal liability if their gun is misused by some
> third party.
>
> If, in fact, the law develops such that gun owners have a legal
> obligation to use trigger locks, these law-abiding gun owners may be
> forced to put their safety, and that of their families, at risk. It
> is certainly not unreasonable to imagine a single mother of small
> children, depending on her gun for safety, panic-stricken as she
> struggles unsuccessfully with her trigger lock in the middle of the
> night after hearing a burglar break into her home.
>
> These are but two examples of the grave harm that the gun control
> amendments adopted to this bill by the Senate have done to the
> Second Amendment rights of Americans. When the heat of this moment
> is gone, and the passions so shamelessly stirred up by the gun control
> lobby have subsided, I am afraid that many of those who supported
> these amendments will realize that they have done the Second
> Amendment serious and lasting harm. Sadly, though, it will be too late.
>
> Thanks again for the concerns you have expressed. I am pleased to
> stand up for the rights of law-abiding gun owners.
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> BOB SMITH
> United States Senator (I-NH)
We always think that writing these people goes to deaf ears, well look's like we have one that pays attention to what we say - with this Senator.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
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"The meatier the better" - how's your face and the straight razor skills doing Lanney !!!
Hope OK after a few weeks of practice, have you learned anything that a new comer to this thing called "shaving" could be told. Pulling the skin tight - etc !!
You have become the subject matter expert bud.
>
> DL
> You will find that weekends are pretty slow and the volume of discussions during the week will fluctuate a lot, particularly in the summer months....too many things to do, presumably. Don't be shy, throw out something for discussion. A bone to the dogs, so to speak......the meatier the better.
> YMOS
> Lanney Ratcliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <concho@uswestmail.net>
> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 11:05 AM
> Subject: MtMan-List: Hello List
>
>
> > Hello List,
> >
> > I was told this was an active list, been on it for several days and have seen very little on discussions of the fur trade or anything else for that matter. Is everyone at camp's, rendezvous' or on a vacation ?
> >
> > Let discuss some fur trade, rendezvous or ones coming up.
> >
> > Hello, HELLO.
> >
> > D. L. Smith
> > Washington, MO.
> > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> >
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hello List WARNING NO PERIOD REFERENCES!
Date: 01 Aug 1999 13:08:01 -0400
Buck,
Saw Dem. Bill Bradley on tv thismorning. Was asked about gun control, he said the ALL hanguns AND their owners should be registered AND licensed. And was going to ban all "Saturday night specials" whatever the hell
those are.. He didn't elaborate... Scary stuff.
Our two "Conservitive Rebublican" Senators from here in Ohio have sided with the Dems on ALL gun control issues. DeWine and Vionivich. I have written & called them numerous times with no answers whatsoever...
> Hello camp, can I get some info on how the mountain man carried his salt and
> spices?? and what kind of containers.
> Bill "MadJack" Jackson
>
MadJack,
In Washington's "kitchen mess kit", they stored salt, Havana Brown sugar and spices in metal tin containers that where tinned on the inside, the outside had turned a dark gray color from age, but the tinned inside was dull but not really discolored for it's age. Had a chance to examine the complete "mess" years ago when a friend of the family was working there at Valley Forge PA. There were samples of home spun cloth that had lined the spice and sugar containers, so apparently the spices, sugar and maybe even the salt where wrapped in cloth - then stored in the containers.
With the high moisture rate back there and being near the coast, I would think the items would stick to the cloth if not used daily, that's just a guess - nothing documented.
____________________________________
We have tried this method here in the rockies, seems to work fine, but we are dryer than some areas and this may have helped. I used small tin containers (originally had candy in them 30-40 years ago), removed the painted advertising with a small bead blaster and let them bare metal on the outside (have a nice grayish color) tinned the inside like Washington's.
DON'T USE COPPER CONTAINERS - I have done this one and within a few months they turn a nice green and so do your spices. ALSO USE container with rounded corners - helps from cutting through a haversack or bedroll.
The tinned ones (containers) mentioned have served us nicely in all four seasons, if your using them 4-6 times a year, your stored items should be fine - because your refilling them. I don't think they would store for extended lengths of time, probably draw moisture and soil.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hello List WARNING NO PERIOD REFERENCES!
Date: 01 Aug 1999 10:52:32 -0700
>
> Buck,
> Saw Dem. Bill Bradley on tv thismorning. Was asked about gun control, he said the ALL hanguns AND their owners should be registered AND licensed. And was going to ban all "Saturday night specials" whatever the hell
> those are.. He didn't elaborate... Scary stuff.
> Our two "Conservitive Rebublican" Senators from here in Ohio have sided with the Dems on ALL gun control issues. DeWine and Vionivich. I have written & called them numerous times with no answers whatsoever...
> D
>
That's why we have to "hound' our rep's with e-mail and letters, bury their asses until they start answering the folks that voted them into those job, or vote them out and let them know why they lost, because they go off doing their own thing, not what they campained for when voted in.
Was at an NRA meeting back in the early sixies after Nam, this ex. pres. of the NRA was asked to come up on stage, took a little while to get him there, everyone settled down. He got ready to speak and said "Shoot the lawyers and elected ones will quit", the crowd when nuts and he went and sat back down. Think about it, many of these elected officals have that back ground, so they know what they can get away with right from the start.
Take it easy Cuttleg, your a skinner not a skin headed offical.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> The trappers carried their salt for personal use in horn containers, since
> these were the only waterproof containers they had. A question I have, is
> how did the trappers carry larger quanities of salt, such as the amount
> needed to supply a whole party ? There are accounts of groups of trappers
> carrying " gallons " of salt to be used by parties. I am not sure this was
> a common practice of the mountain men, but it is well documented that the
> longhunters of the 18th century certainly did. The reason I am not certain
> if the mountain men carried such quanities of salt is that in doing the
> reasearch for the sign language tape, I found that according to W. P. Clark
> the plains Indians did not use salt. In fact the sign for salt is " taste ,
> bad, white. " Does anyone have any further info ?
> Pendleton
Larry & Bill,
For large quanities I read some where of traders carrying "caked" salt in wooden buckets to settlements from the Mississippi River east.
Didn't Clymer or another artist do research on the salt operation in southern Utah - painted a picture of such activity with whites and Indians, cooking salt and salt stored in wooden buckets.
In one issue of Muzzleloader there was an article about the salt operation in Kent or Virgina, showed a couple of men each carrying wooden buckets on a yoke, I guess they had salt ?
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> Do you have the photo of the razor I bought from you posted to your web site? If not I will post it to you, or anyone else, as a jpg image. It is a great looking razor and, even more importantly, it is a very good razor.
> YMOS
> Lanney
Lanney, send it again, told Wendy to put it on site - she got Larry and his tape up, but not the razor.
send it to my business e-mail at : buck.conner@worldnet.att.net
Thanks again, and I have saved what you just wrote, good straight forward information for a new straight razor shaver.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> You will find that weekends are pretty slow and the volume of discussions during the week will fluctuate a lot, particularly in the summer months....too many things to do, presumably. Don't be shy, throw out something for discussion. A bone to the dogs, so to speak......the meatier the better.
> YMOS
> Lanney Ratcliff
Looks like things are pickin' up Lanney.
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hello List WARNING NO PERIOD REFERENCES!
Date: 01 Aug 1999 11:38:58 -0700
On Sun, 01 August 1999, "Buck" wrote:
>
> >
> > Buck,
> > Saw Dem. Bill Bradley on tv thismorning. Was asked about gun control, he said the ALL hanguns AND their owners should be registered AND licensed. And was going to ban all "Saturday night specials" whatever the hell
> > those are.. He didn't elaborate... Scary stuff.
> > Our two "Conservitive Rebublican" Senators from here in Ohio have sided with the Dems on ALL gun control issues. DeWine and Vionivich. I have written & called them numerous times with no answers whatsoever...
> > D
> >
> That's why we have to "hound' our rep's with e-mail and letters, bury their asses until they start answering the folks that voted them into those job, or vote them out and let them know why they lost, because they go off doing their own thing, not what they campained for when voted in.
Amen brothers.
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> We have tried this method here in the rockies, seems to work fine, but we are dryer than some areas and this may have helped. I used small tin containers (originally had candy in them 30-40 years ago), removed the painted advertising with a small bead blaster and let them bare metal on the outside (have a nice grayish color) tinned the inside like Washington's.
>
> DON'T USE COPPER CONTAINERS - I have done this one and within a few months they turn a nice green and so do your spices. ALSO USE container with rounded corners - helps from cutting through a haversack or bedroll.
>
I believe Buck wrote an article years ago about this in the Buckskin Report, did as he has stated and have had good results Mad Jack, give it a whirl.
I talked to Crosby Brown (MO Historian) he said that small crock jars where used on early wagon trains and several journals state there use as part of the inventory when carried on "red river carts" on several trade routes. I personally like the tin ones Buck mentioned, they are light and don't break.
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
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> Didn't Clymer or another artist do research on the salt operation in southern Utah - painted a picture of such activity with whites and Indians, cooking salt and salt stored in wooden buckets.
Yes, John Clymer's work "Salt Flats" or something close to that shows what is stated.
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
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> Back to the original question, if they did cook salt, how did they carry
> large amounts of it and keep it semi-dry and usable ?
> Pendleton
> >>For large quanities I read some where of traders carrying "caked" salt in
> >wooden buckets to settlements from the Mississippi River east.
> >southern Utah - painted a picture of such activity with whites
>>and Indians, cooking salt and salt stored in wooden buckets.
> >in Kent or Virgina, showed a couple of men each carrying
>>wooden buckets on a yoke, I guess they had salt ?
> >>
Larry,
I think Buck answered it "WOODEN BUCKETS" and it would be "CAKED" - not sure how you would go about doing this operation, unless just adding moisture to the top layer with water ?
What do you think !
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
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> > You will find that weekends are pretty slow and the volume of discussions during the week will fluctuate a lot, particularly in the summer months....too many things to do, presumably. Don't be shy, throw out something for discussion. A bone to the dogs, so to speak......the meatier the better.
______________________________________________
Are you happy Concho, now you have gone and woke all these guys up. I had a couple of e-mails about two hours ago and just checked and found 31 of which 29 where new and a bunch from you.
1. You have started a discussion on storing salt, containers, etc.
2. Insulted me, Buck and my dog.
3. And started a pissing contest between several others.
I told you guys about him, and you still left him stay on the list and he's only been on a few days, give him a few months and Dean will kick us all off. You should believe me, he got thrown out of the northwest territory, that's why he's back.
Turtle.
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On Sun, 01 August 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> > > On Sun, 01 August 1999, "Concho" wrote:
> > > DL
> > > You will find that weekends are pretty slow and the volume of discussions during the week will fluctuate a lot, particularly in the summer months....too many things to do, presumably. Don't be shy, throw out something for discussion. A bone to the dogs, so to speak......the meatier the better.
> ______________________________________________
>
> Are you happy Concho, now you have gone and woke all these guys up. I had a couple of e-mails about two hours ago and just checked and found 31 of which 29 where new and a bunch from you.
>
> 1. You have started a discussion on storing salt, containers, etc.
>
> 2. Insulted me, Buck and my dog.
>
> 3. And started a pissing contest between several others.
>
> I told you guys about him, and you still left him stay on the list and he's only been on a few days, give him a few months and Dean will kick us all off. You should believe me, he got thrown out of the northwest territory, that's why he's back.
>
> Turtle.
Cry baby, should have been Turtle Droppin's.
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
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I'm afraid Turtle is right Concho, your back a few days and got all these guys taking cheap shots at each other (I know it's only because they're bored).
Dave, Buck and Larry are the only ones that have given a straight answer that I can use, liked Lanney's information - don't shave like Dennis.
But Concho and Turtle, what can be said about you two, other than the last time we where in a camp together (about 8 years ago) I know it was one of you that loaded the camp pot with Exlax and I will get way past even one day.
Keep your powder dry
Powderhawk
Historian-Reenacter-Writer
Lake Mills, IA
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> But Concho and Turtle, what can be said about you two, other than the last time we where in a camp together (about 8 years ago) I know it was one of you that loaded the camp pot with Exlax and I will get way past even one day.
>
>
Hawk,
If you remember you where on that grapefruit diet and then you guys made the camp stew, that would have wrecked all the grapefruit you ate.
So we where just thinking of you, didn't know you invited the whole damn camp for dinner.
Be happy there was a fast running stream that everyone could clean up in the next morning. Wow, what a mess !!! Couldn't stop laughing for several days.
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
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> Larry, if he were a Texican he would have said so by now.... you should know this.
> Lanney
> > Yeah, I'm impressed ! Is this guy a fellow Texican ? If he ain't he ought
> > to be.
> > Larry
He isn't from any state, none of the lower 48 will lay claim to this one boys, I feel kind of sick that I know him and the trouble he has gotten me into over the years.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> I didn't shave for the best part of 30 years but last year I whacked it all off except for my moustaches. Never say never.....like I used to. Shaving made me look a little younger, but I still get called "sir" by grown women and get asked about Senior Citizen Discounts by resturant cashiers. Waugh!!
> Lanney
He shave once, but ended up in jail for walking around backwards bent over with his drawers down - think he believed Concho !
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> > But Concho and Turtle, what can be said about you two, other than the last time we where in a camp together (about 8 years ago) I know it was one of you that loaded the camp pot with Exlax and I will get way past even one day.
> >
> >
> Hawk,
> If you remember you where on that grapefruit diet and then you guys made the camp stew, that would have wrecked all the grapefruit you ate.
>
> So we where just thinking of you, didn't know you invited the whole damn camp for dinner.
>
________________________________
Pwdhwk,
It was an accident, we where just looking at that boxes of chocolate, or we though it was chocolate, and Buck pushed me and - well the rest is history.
God what a mess, all the port-johns where full and the lines where unbelieveable.
Sorry, it was a mistake and Concho tried to get the four boxes out. If you want to get even, he was really laughting all the way home.
Your close friend and brother.
Turtle.
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> This "list" looks like a chat room today. What's the matter trappers?
> Too hot for a campfire? It certainly is here in Georgia!
>
Laura,
I think who ever said "Concho" should have never been left on this list is pretty close to correct, that goes for most encampments - also, and if "Turtle" is with him - just call the police and have their butts locked up before they do some off the wall deal like what was mentioned earlier. they're damn lucky that one went away without any further problems. That whole deal is a story in it's self.
As for the salt and carrying it any distance: I agree the wood buckets or iron pots would work for processing it. But for moving any distance, probably like anything else, wrapped in cloth or blanket material - then some kinds of water proof covering like greased leather or rawhide, just a guess - anyone have any documentations after being processed and "caked". I wonder how it would be stored after reaching a large camp or settlement for a long period of time - their conditions where not the best for such items.
This is a subject that you can find bits and pieces, and not a clear picture of the complete operation.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
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> Re salt going hard in horns. Try putting some rice in the
> horn with the salt. The Rice is supposed to soak up any
> moisture that gets in. Have never tried it so can't speak
> from experience.Try it and see what happens
> Kia Ora
> Big Bear
> In cool overcast Marlborough New Zealand.
Had done this for years, using a little white rice and pepper and salt mix, worked very nicely as long as it was kept fairly dry - could handle a little moisture. But you have to check it because the rice will swell and slow down - or stop the flow of the salt from exiting the hole.
That's when we started using a small tin container (tinned inside) with a greased leather bag, if it get moisture it's no big deal as it can be broken up from it's "caked" state and still used.
There's probably a dozen different ways to carry small amounts, each a little different - depending on the area and the situtations you become involved with water, in the form of moisture to a complete dunking.
I would think the early natives that grew gourds had a good container and as a last resort could dig the salt out with a stick if the mouth of the gourd was large enough.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> alright DL. one post and you got half the list out
> from under their rocks... way to go. Barney Fife
"Honest Officer I was just standing there and this ....."
Let me clear up a few things, I moved from ILL about 12-13 years ago and moved to Canada to teach Junior High - was a 5 year contract in a private school, got extended for a total of 12 years. I decided to move back to the MO / ILL area because of relations in both states.
Don't believe Buck, Turtle or Powderhawk - I wasn't tarred or feathered and the rope burns weren't that bad - only kidding.
Many of the boys years back in and around the Ft. Osage to Ft.deChartre have camped, canoed or rode with us at one time or another. Old Ron Hacker, Frenchy and Fellows probably remember some good parties at deChartre. The lines at the john's weren't that long Buck and many said the stew had a sweet taste !!! Just thought it didn't agree with them, darnest thing.
If your in the area at Ft. Osage to Ft.deChartre give a camp yell for "Concho" and listen up, ye will yell back.
I can see you ladies and gentlemen have a good sense of humor, sound like my kind of folk. Thank you for your time.
D. L. "Concho" Smith
Washington, MO.
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> > small tin tins with a bit of beeswax around the outer edge works real fine.
> > also, a short horn with a divider put up the center before its plugged, and
> > dowels (or piano tuning keys) to plug the holes at the top has kept salt AND
> > pepper in the same container (VERY CONVENIENT) perfectly dry while sitting
> > out on the table in storms. IIRC, wax or pitch lined kegs were used to
> > transport large quantities of salt in times gone bye. Barn
>
> problem is if left in a damp area for a period of time the salt get's hard and can't be removed from the horn.
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
I remember seeing Buck stepping out of a canoe at Ft. Osage (the Corp of Engr. had just work the sides over), I was in water to my knees (on the shelf). He missed the shelf and disappeared (about 15 foot down) darn - he got his salt wet, along with everything he had on. Buck do you remember, your little greased bag didn't help.
D. L. "Concho" Smith
Washington, MO.
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> I remember seeing Buck stepping out of a canoe at Ft. Osage (the Corp of Engr. had just work the sides over), I was in water to my knees (on the shelf). He missed the shelf and disappeared (about 15 foot down) darn - he got his salt wet, along with everything he had on. Buck do you remember, your little greased bag didn't help.
> He isn't from any state, none of the lower 48 will lay claim to this one boys, I feel kind of sick that I know him and the trouble he has gotten me into over the years.
>
>
Who wrote this, they're low to the ground and crawl on their belly - Turtle did you do this.
D. L. "Concho" Smith
Washington, MO.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> I think to become a Texiacan, ya gotta sign in blood and it don't really gotta be yours...
> D
>
> > > Oh no ! I'm sorry ! I guess I offended him.
> > > Pendleton
> > > Larry, if he were a Texican he would have said so by now.... you should know
> > > this.
> > > Lanney
> >
> > What's wrong with Texican's, you guys look like you like to have fun, where do I sign up at boys.
> >
> > D. L. "Concho" Smith
Dennis if that's the case and your sure "it don't really gotta be yours...", does Buck still drink.
Oh, he wasn't drinking the evening to took a swim at Osage, poor Old Grady's (Ft. Capt.) eye's where bigger than Buck's. Tell you what, "quill work" sure don't do good in Missouri River water, made some good repair work for Jan Zelter - so at least one person was happy.
The boys that dug the river where lucky to not be around, Buck would have warmed some tails with Mrs. Jager (his new shootin iron)if he could have stood up while treading water. Can still see his face, I still laugh about that Buck.
Folks, I had better get off, seems I have opened a large can of worms with a few members of this list, and a butt chewing is probably real close by now. HE HE
D. L. "Concho" Smith
Washington, MO.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> Folks, I had better get off, seems I have opened a large can of worms with a few members of this list, and a butt chewing is probably real close by now. HE HE
>
Say good night, old friend
Sorry for not signing, and stop saying I craw.
Turtle.
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: GW's kitchen mess kit - metal tin containers
Date: 02 Aug 1999 06:32:44 -0700
> On Sun, 01 August 1999, JON MARINETTI wrote:
>
> "the outside had turned a dark gray color from age" --- wonder if it
> could have been pewtered [tin-lead alloy] with maybe some silver added ?
> ------------------------------------------------------nickname of Concho
> - are ye originally from near the Musselshell?
Jon,
That's a good point, I will contact a friend that is still involved with the Valley Forge Historical Society and ask him your question. That was a fashionable thing in Washington's Day and seeing how the "kitchen mess" belonged to him that could be, it's been at least 15 years since I looked at the set and can't remember now. I'll get back with an answer Jon.
As far as D.L. "Concho" Smith, I believe he was raised in southern CA - but moved around the country - military brat. As this past weekend has shown, he can sure stir things up: at a camp, while traveling period, even at a 7-11 when stopping for gas, and now the internet. Like someone said, lock your daughters and small animals up - he's back.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Please forgive the number of e-mail's I was responsible for on Sunday,
seems to have gotten out of hand for several of us. I usually don't do
things as such, maybe it was the moon, being bored, or a very small
chance that others tricked me into running off at the mouth.
Mr. Miles tells me this is an old Texas trick that has been used on him several
times over the years. Even Miss Laura has questioned who I am, why my
location is one place, my e-mail another, so on and so on. I'm just a victim of a friend, one could say - he set me up in more than one way, thanks for getting me this e-mail Buck and I'm glad I told them about you taking a swim in the Missouri. That makes it all worthwhile old friend, I think others will agree if they know you. Dennis tells me he now owns Mrs. Jager, that's a suprise - the way she would shoot, didn't think she would ever leave home !
Need to get ready for several job interviews for tomorrow, if I'm working I'll not be bothering everyone on this list, have to admit yesterday was fun and everyone seemed to enjoy it.
Thank you folks for your time.
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: GW's kitchen mess kit - metal tin containers
Date: 02 Aug 1999 12:46:22 -0700
On Mon, 02 August 1999, "Buck" wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 01 August 1999, JON MARINETTI wrote:
> >
> > "the outside had turned a dark gray color from age" --- wonder if it
> > could have been pewtered [tin-lead alloy] with maybe some silver added ?
Buck - sometimes it's hard to see if it's been "washed" as Jon has mentioned, not like the stuff from the 30's that peels. Usually has a light blue modeled tint to the appearance under direct sunlight (in several places - like the bottom, or behind a handle where its protected from handling.
> ------------------------------
> As far as D.L. "Concho" Smith, I believe he was raised in southern CA - but moved around the country - military brat...........
Several location in CA, what do you mean "brat" ?????
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: MtMan-List: SPICES available in North America.
Date: 02 Aug 1999 18:14:05 -0700
> On Mon, 02 August 1999, "Powderhawk" wrote:
> > Please forgive the number of e-mail's I was responsible for on Sunday, ......
>
> > Even Miss Laura has questioned who I am, why my .....
> SHE REALLY DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW
>
> > thanks for getting me this e-mail Buck and I'm glad I told them about you .......
> YOU OL HOSS YOU HAVE BLAMED EVERYONE FOR YOUR DOIN'S
>
> > "One who favors the finer things in life"
> SOME OF THE LADIES WHERE JUST THAT, BUT NOW DO WHAT WE KNOW YOU CAN DO - LET'S TALK HISTORY D.L. - THAT'S WHAT THIS LIST IS ALL ABOUT.
>
> YOU SAID YOUR SORRY, LET IT LAY AND NOBODY GET HIM STARTED AGAIN.
>
> HAWK
Leave the ladies out of it, for once in your life settle down and be cool, Hawk.
Yes, I have had some times, and plan on many more once employed. Looking for a brainless type of job for a change, no pressure this time.
Hey Hawk, these guys have a good discussion on salt going, like how Dave K. writes and researches, and the others also - sorry don't have your names in front of me, but this is a good group that really pull together on a subject, that's great.
Hey what about the types of spices available, we got a good start on salt, come on Buck - stop filling orders and get in here with us SPICES AVAILABLE in North America. What do you guys think, we could get Buck to build us a shopping list, he don't need much sleep the honey moon is over brother.
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: SPICES available in North America.
Date: 02 Aug 1999 18:36:16 -0700
> Hey what about the types of spices available, we got a good start on salt, come on Buck - stop filling orders and get in here with us SPICES AVAILABLE in North America. What do you guys think, we could get Buck to build us a shopping list, he don't need much sleep the honey moon is over brother.
> "Concho"
_____________________________________
Just copied this from Clark & Sons Mercantile web site, Buck won't mind - he always says he would rather see us use correct items and not junk foods.
_____________________________________
Herbs
These herbs are used as medicine, seasonings or just for decoration, all have been dated earlier than 1800.
Agronomy/American Pennyroyal: Listed in history as an American
Indian herb, used for insect repellent.
Basil/Brunet: A well known pair of herbs, known to provide a
aromatic relief for the nose.
Butterfly Weed: Same as above.
Caraway: Has some medical uses, licorice taste used on rye bread
by early colonists.
Chives: A flavoring for soups, breads, salads, etc. by native
Americans and colonists.
Coriander, Dill: Flavoring or seasoning.
Garlic Chives: Member of the onion family, used for seasoning
in soups and salads.
Horehound: Used in teas, candy for sore throat problems.
Sweet Cicely: Licorice flavor used in cooking for seasoning.
Sweet Marjoram: Old medical herb, used for colds in soup and stews.
lunaria, thin-leafed coneflower, these are all decoration plants
and not to be used internally by all means.
LEGEND
Approximate documented and dated items grown or traded in North
America, we have found somethingÆs earlier than listed, but
not that common for the working class or local trade.
Pa. German - before 1750 *
Before 1800 - trade item **
Northeast - before 1820 @
Southwest - before 1830 #
Herbs & Spices
Basil *
Bay leaves *
Cayenne pepper *
Cinnamon sticks *
Cloves-whole *
Garlic-granules *
Nutmeg-whole *
Pepper-crushed red *
Rose hips-seedless *
Ginger root-dried *
Mustard seed-whole *
Remember the local natives had many more not listed, but hard to document as there are few records, just passed down word of mouth, generation to generation.
_____________________________________
We got a pretty good start on our shopping list with out to much effort, thanks to Buck.
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: SPICES available in North America.
Date: 03 Aug 1999 10:56:32 -0700
On Mon, 02 August 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> > Hey what about the types of spices available, we got a good start on salt, come on Buck - stop filling orders and get in here with us SPICES AVAILABLE in North America. What do you guys think, we could get Buck to build us a shopping list, he don't need much sleep the honey moon is over brother.
> > "Concho"
> _____________________________________
> Just copied this from Clark & Sons Mercantile web site, Buck won't mind - he always says he would rather see us use correct items and not junk foods.
> _____________________________________
> Herbs
> These herbs are used as medicine, seasonings or just for decoration, all have been dated earlier than 1800.
>
> Agronomy/American Pennyroyal: Listed in history as an American
> Indian herb, used for insect repellent.
>
> Basil/Brunet: A well known pair of herbs, known to provide a
> aromatic relief for the nose.
>
> Butterfly Weed: Same as above.
>
> Caraway: Has some medical uses, licorice taste used on rye bread
> by early colonists.
>
> Chives: A flavoring for soups, breads, salads, etc. by native
> Americans and colonists.
>
> Coriander, Dill: Flavoring or seasoning.
>
> Garlic Chives: Member of the onion family, used for seasoning
> in soups and salads.
>
> Horehound: Used in teas, candy for sore throat problems.
>
> Sweet Cicely: Licorice flavor used in cooking for seasoning.
>
> Sweet Marjoram: Old medical herb, used for colds in soup and stews.
> lunaria, thin-leafed coneflower, these are all decoration plants
> and not to be used internally by all means.
>
> LEGEND
> Approximate documented and dated items grown or traded in North
> America, we have found something?s earlier than listed, but
> not that common for the working class or local trade.
>
> Pa. German - before 1750 *
> Before 1800 - trade item **
> Northeast - before 1820 @
> Southwest - before 1830 #
>
> Herbs & Spices
> Basil *
> Bay leaves *
> Cayenne pepper *
> Cinnamon sticks *
> Cloves-whole *
> Garlic-granules *
> Nutmeg-whole *
> Pepper-crushed red *
> Rose hips-seedless *
> Ginger root-dried *
> Mustard seed-whole *
>
> Remember the local natives had many more not listed, but hard to document as there are few records, just passed down word of mouth, generation to generation.
> _____________________________________
Tonight I will look in "Jefferson's Garden Book" this a great source book on cultivated edibles from his time to now. I use this book over and over again, it's amazing how many different vegetables, seeds and fruits he collected from around the world in his travels as a leader or advisor for this country in his life time. We would be very limited if it wasn't for TJ and his interest of cultivated and foraged edibles, the arts, books, etc., probably the father of research for the United States.
He sold his first collection of books, around 7000 titles to the US Congress (now the Library of Congress Collection) after the British burned the original library. If your looking for various items that pretain to our history, a search on Jefferson will surprise you much of the time, as he will probably had his hand in one part or the other in the area your looking at.
If your building a shopping list like one of you mentioned, I'll give you a fair listing of edibles that covers, vegetables, fruits, etc. - if enough want such a list. I would rather see you use correct items than not junk foods.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year
or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
>I am doing a Kiowa cradle board and need Osage orange wood for the planks. Anyone know a source???? Help.
>
>Linda Holley
>
>
>
>
Linda,
I don't know how cost effective this will be, but many primitive archery supply houses carry for it in raw stave form for making bows out of. You could use that as a source if need be.
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: SPICES available in North America.
Date: 03 Aug 1999 16:49:52 -0700
On Tue, 03 August 1999, Bob Spencer wrote:
>
> >> > Hey what about the types of spices available,
>
> Mark Baker provides an excellent reference to such things in his book,
> "Sons of a Trackless Forest". There are many invoices or orders in the
> records of Baynton, Wharton and Morgan, doing business in Kaskaskia, Ill.,
> in 1767-70.
>
> Bob
Haven't heard from Buck yet on this, but I know that Clark & Sons Mercantile furnished Mark Baker and Wes Houser with all their edibles, sweets, etc. for their last tapes they put out. I saw Mark had given C&SM credit in several of his articles for their research on same items over the last 3-4 years.
They are the biggest and Goose Bay Workshops is starting to grow in the same direction behind Buck, Peter of GBW said that the two of them have been working together on cookwares and edibles for the last couple of years now. That's all they are looking at - in camp items, or edibles, cultivated and foraged.
This is great for us that someone will take the time to work on these areas. Bill Gorbey that writes for "On The Trail", John Curry "Smoke & Fire", Brook Elliott "Smoke & Fire" and Mark Baker "Muzzleloader" also work with Buck in researching edibles, field testing new items and as seen in their columns in those journals covering foods and drinks, along with trekking.
This sure gives us a good source, with foods, etc., plus articles, tapes and such from good documentation. We all need to thank these people for adding to our needs from time to time. Thanks Clark & Sons, Goose Bay,(suppliers) Mark Baker, John Curry, Bill Gorbey and Brook Elliott (articles and columns) for the support.
See you down the trail.
Turtle.
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: SPICES available in North America.
Date: 03 Aug 1999 19:32:16 -0700
On Tue, 03 August 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
> This sure gives us a good source, with foods, etc., plus articles, tapes and such from good documentation. We all need to thank these people for adding to our needs from time to time. Thanks Clark & Sons, Goose Bay,(suppliers) Mark Baker, John Curry, Bill Gorbey and Brook Elliott (articles and columns) for the support.
>
> See you down the trail.
> Turtle.
Turtle are you getting a cut from C&S, only kidding. Mark told me a while back at one of the eastern events he was getting his supplies and field testing some stuff for C&S, so was John Curry. Mark also mentioned that the foods in the last video #4 Buck furnished, and in the credits of Wes and Jeff's second video it shows Clark & Sons Mercantile as their food source.
The old buck is getting around, bad back and all, folks that's really nice of these guys mentioned for the service they're providing to us the re-enacters, sure saves us time doing research, when all we have to do is pickup a magazine these guys write in.
Turtle like you said, "thanks a bunch for your efforts guys".
___________________________________
Take care, folks
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> I carry the usual stuff in a large oiltan double pouch with a few
> additions. A pair of handforged pliers ( good for pulling thorns to
> holding balls to trim sprues), a handforged screwdriver, a horn funnel,
> and a hide glue stick for repairs. In my bad's divider I've sewn loops
> for my tools and such. Much easier to find in the dark and beats
> digging at the bottom of my bag. No telling what resides down
> there!<bg>
> Bill "Chases Hawks" Vannoy
This is part of an article that will appear in T&LR in the near future.
I now have a small bag copied from one a hunter from Pottstown PA carried as part of his profession for a 28 years career from 1787 to 1815.
For contents, I found his wares to be very interesting, knowing it belonged and was designed by one that worked with it every day as a tool of his trade.
Lets start with the small tin containers; 1-3/4 X 4-1/2 X 1-1/4 inches, hinged on the end with a simple pressurer clip to keep the lid secured.
Inside - container #1: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items
from making noise, (1) combination screwdriver-knapper, (1) vent pick-handforged, (1) iron ball jag, (1) tow worm, (1) handforged small nail used to insert in small hole in ramrod if rod became stuck, (1) small folding pocket knife, (2) flicker feathers used to plug vent hole in bad weather, (1) small brass bell with leather thong-apparently this hunter had a dog for his companion. Oh, almost forgot (1) small round tin container apprx. 7/8 dia. X 3/4 inches deep-used for patch lube and lip baum.
Inside - container #2: brained deer hide liner used to keep other items from making noise, (6) small handforged fishing hooks with tappered end,
(4) small [.29 cal.] round balls-weights, (2) corncob floats, (2) 6 foot pieces of linen thread, (4) horsehair leaders, (1) small round tin 3/4 X 3/4 inches-bees wax, (2) handmade sewing needles, (3) thin leather thongs, and (2) iron blanket pins 1-1/2 inches in dia.
Contents in back pocket: roll of pillow ticking-.012 thickness, small handmade bottle of cleaner, small short starter, flint wallet with small
On the back of the back pocket is a rawhide sheath with a 10 inch overall length butcher knife.
Contents in front pocket: (1) 3 hole bullet board with thong attached to an adjustable powder measurer, (1) small oval tin 3 X 4 X 3/4 inches with 3-1/2 X 1 inch striker, (3) flint flakes, tow, tin of char, and (6) sulfer matches, container again lined with brained deer hide. (1) small handforged single jaw trap [muskrat], wooden cased compass 2 X 2 X 7/8
inches, (3) bees wax candles wrapped in linen cloth,
(1) small wooden salt barrel 3/4 X 2 inches, and (1) 2 piece turkey wing bone call.
This is very interesting that such a small pouch of the day - 1787 to
1815 is so compact and only the needed items to perform his tasks are used, every item was needed in his daily survival and gathering of game.
Note things like bullet molds, ladels, lead bar, pipes-tobacco, etc. are items cached or left at his residents in the settlements.
Something we found interesting in his journal was the mention of not using tobacco, feeling that the odor from such activity would hamper his ability to get close to game.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: SPICES available in North America.
Date: 04 Aug 1999 12:47:56 -0700
> On Tue, 03 August 1999, concho@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> On Tue, 03 August 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> This sure gives us a good source, with foods, etc., plus articles, tapes and such from good documentation. We all need to thank these people for adding to our needs from time to time. Thanks Clark & Sons, Goose Bay,(suppliers) Mark Baker, John Curry, Bill Gorbey and Brook Elliott (articles and columns) for the support.
> >
> > See you down the trail.
> > Turtle.
> ------------------------------------------
> Turtle are you getting a cut from C&S, only kidding. Mark told me a while back at one of the eastern events he was getting his supplies and field testing some stuff for C&S, so was John Curry. Mark also mentioned that the foods in the last video #4 Buck furnished, and in the credits of Wes and Jeff's second video it shows Clark & Sons Mercantile as their food source.
>
> The old buck is getting around, bad back and all, folks that's really nice of these guys mentioned for the service they're providing to us the re-enacters, sure saves us time doing research, when all we have to do is pickup a magazine these guys write in.
>
> Turtle like you said, "thanks a bunch for your efforts guys".
> ___________________________________
Hey guys thanks for all the kind remarks, sent a copy to Baker, Curry, Gorby, Elloitt and Gobel - know they will thank you also. John Curry told me he wondered if anyone ever read or listen to what they write, or where they just another "middle of the road group" for writers.
"It's nice to know that one's efforts where not spent in vain."
Thomas Jefferson 1811.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
The bag Buck mentioned (the original of William Potts), I got to copy and have used for about 12 years now. I guess Buck was right in copying one that was used as a daily tool for the man's livelyhood. For years I carried a number of extra items, then it was suggested to make a list on a 10 day canoe trip of everything I used - anything that was not listed was left at home from then on, funny after a few years I traded much of that stuff off. In this hobby it seems we get into gathering gadgets, and neat items, then half of them just sit around.
When Buckhorn Rendezvous was still operating, they would have a garage sale once a year of new items, Buck said they where things that him and Ben thought where great, but turned out they where the only ones that thought so. They would have tables full of stuff from local buckskinners that decided they no longer needed items once carried in their haversacks or shooting bags. We all need to do as I was told, "make a list of what you use, and how often, then can one item be used for several jobs - if so leave the dupliate at home".
Turtle.
> On Wed, 04 August 1999, "larry pendleton" wrote:
> Guys,
> This discussion on shooting bags is great ! My gear inside the bag hasn't
> changed much in the last few years, but I seem to build a new bag every
> years or so. The bag I am currently using is made of braintan deeskin,
> which was not broken quite as well as it should have been. It is still
> quite soft but has more body to it than braintan that is done really well.
> The bag is a simple single pouch with no gusset, but it is sewn with a welt.
> It measures 8 1/2 X 9 inches. The flap is double thickness of the braintan
> with a button to hold it closed. It has a single small pocket which carries
> a cleaning jag, an extra flint, a few patches, and a small oak twig that is
> whittled to fit as a plug for the touch hole which is used when I wash the
> bore of my rifle. In the main part of the bag there is a small bag that
> holds about ten round balls. I carry a separate bullet pouch for the bulk
> of my amunition. It either hangs from a separate strap or from my belt. I
> find I can load faster with this arrangement. The rest of the gear includes
> : forged pliers, forged screwdriver-flint knapper, fire steel, flint, bag of
> tow, bag of extra gun flints, deerskin wallet that holds extra jags a tow
> worm and ball puller, folding knife, rolls of ticking strips used for
> patching, a can of grease used for lubing patches and the bore of my rifle,
> and a small brass tube that contains bear oil for oiling the lock. My
> powder measure hangs from the neck of my powder horn, and the vent pick is
> carried in the patchbox. My patch knife is attached to the back of the
> bag.
> I carry the bullet mold, ladle, and lead in my haversack. Where to carry
> these items has always been somewhat of a dilema. It seems the bullet mold
> was most often carried in the shooting bag, but it is of no use without the
> ladle and lead and that is more weight than I want to carry in the shooting
> bag. What to do ?
> This how I carry my stuff, and it works pretty well for me. How one uses
> a shooting bag and other accoutrements is a very individual thing. What
> works for one person may or may not work for the next.
> On Wed, 04 August 1999, ad.miller@mindspring.com wrote:
> What I'll do is place any item on the page, a pictue, a description, price,
> and email of seller. After that, everything is done through the buyer and
> the seller. I don't want a commission or anything. I maintain my own site,
> its a freebie on on geocities.
>
> Rules will be simple... You deal direct with the seller, and anything will
> be put up on the page so long as it is within our time period. It can be
> for sale, trade, barter, whatever. I assume no liability for the
> transaction or offer any warranty. I am doing this strictly as a service
> for others and expect no commission, or renumeration of any kind.
> My intent is to help others get rid of "extra stuff" ... *chuckles* probably
> so they can buy more. Sounds kinda simple to me...
>
> I'll work on the page tonite and post the address for all to see
> tomorrow...
>
> Addison Miller
>
>
> Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 11:33 AM
> >You have to pay to maintain your site, it`s only fair if we use we should
> >share expenses.
> >
> > Thank you for your consideration.
> >John (BIG JOHN) Hunt jhunt1@one.net
________________________________
Hey "Ad",
I'm sure that most would agree a ?? % of the sale for your efforts like John has mentioned would be fair. If they take their sellable items to a dealer they would pay a 20% for items under $500 and 10% for items above - this seems to be standard anymore, of course your using their space and they have overhead. You said your overhead is nothing, but you still have time invested and should get something for your efforts, whatever is fair to you.
Even 5% not much when you think of the savings to the seller, when compared to going to a dealer, would help you buy a new toy, and that's the bottom line "we all need our toys".
I will look tonight and gather up some items, it's been about two years since doing this. Use to take the funds from our sale table when we still had the store, then donate it to "Children's Hospital" here in Denver. It would surprise you how much stuff you can move, many newcomers need everything and aren't into the reenactment stuff yet.
Thank you for the offer.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
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> > I am doing this strictly as a service for others and expect no commission,
> > or renumeration of any kind.
> >
> > Addison Miller
> >
-----------------------
> > >You have to pay to maintain your site, it`s only fair if we use we should
> > >share expenses.
-----------------------
> Even 5% not much when you think of the savings to the seller, when compared to going to a dealer, would help you buy a new toy, and that's the bottom line "we all need our toys".
----------------------
Hey Addison,
Like mentioned take a percentage and you go buy some new goodies, that's fair for your trouble. I'll see what I have laying around no longer used.
Turtle.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> The only things those books really tell you is what to cook. They aren't
> really necessary for someone who knows how to cook. Anything you can make at
> home on your stove can be made in a Dutch oven.
>
> I taught Dutch oven cooking to Boy Scout leaders for a zillion years. All
> you need is a common sense approach. You can bake, broil, or stew in one.
> You can turn the lid upside down and use it as a griddle. Everything you
> cook in a Dutch oven tastes good. It is near impossible to ruin food. If
> it's cooking too fast., remove coals. If it's cooking to slow, add coals.
>
> The heavy lid makes it function like a pressure cooker. You can use the
> cheapest cuts of meat and they will come out tender. Other than common
> sense, there is really no big secret to Dutch oven cooking. Much to do is
> made about putting X number of coals on top, and X number of coals on the
> bottem to maintain X degrees of temperature. Hooey. Just cook your vittles
> and keep a wary eye on them once in a while. If you don't know what to put
> in the pot, then the books will give you some ideas. If you know what you
> like, save the money and buy a cast iron skillet with it. <G>
>
> Dave Kanger
Dave I have an article done by Brook Ellitt on "care of cast iron cookware", very well done - ran it in one of our cataolgs a few years ago. Can post it on this hist_list if interested.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
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The only issue with the bullet mold is, in our historical time period, it was most often carried in the shooting bag, probably because it was an item that could not be replaced very easily.
The bags I have been making the last few years have been recreations of bags that are illustrated in Madison Grant's book. I learned a long tome ago that when you stray from the designs and the dimensions of the originals, you are making a large mistake...........
......................................
Larry,
Right after Grant's pouch book came out I was up visiting Charlie at the museum in Chardon, we where cleaning display cases I think was the reason I went up. Anyway we got to looking at Madison's book one evening, of which many have bullet molds, but only a few have lead bar.
Charlie started shaking his head in the direction of a "NO", this happens several times within a few pages. I asked what's the problem, his reply is "very seldom did he ever find reference to a bullet mold carried in the shooting pouch in all his years of research." He felt yes the mold and lead was there, but cached at camp, in the bedroll, pack or the haversack, not in the shooting bag.
The reason you see them in the bags today (collections) is they where placed there years later to keep everything together my family or dealers, he said he had done the same thing himself for years. Now everyone sees them in the bag and now that's where they should be.
Charlie brought up a good point, "why would you carry a mold and several pieces of lead bar (considering the weight) when you could have something useable like round ball - half the weight and half the bulk !"
When you give this some thought and consider everything Charlie mentioned, many of us believe he's probably correct in his thinking on these two items. So, put the mold and lead bar in the bed roll, haversack, pack, etc. they wouldn't help in a fight or killing game, yes a valuable item, just stored in the wrong location.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
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Charlie will be missed for sure.. I had more than one $20 phone call show up on my bill due to a question I asked during the course of conversation with him.
I carry my ball mould and a couple a small "fingers" of lead wrapped in the middle of my bedroll. For what it is worth. I have a few ball in my bag, enough for a couple of days. Think of when you are going to find time to "run ball" anyway...At camp, in the evening, or morning over a nice glowing bed of coals.
BTW. I have a nice reworked .600 Rapine that I want to trade for a .570.. Can't hardly beat them damned .600's in the rifle-gun.....Right tight fit though...<G>
D
buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
> Larry,
> Right after Grant's pouch book came out I was up visiting Charlie at the museum in Chardon, we where cleaning display cases I think was the reason I went up. Anyway we got to looking at Madison's book one evening, of which many have bullet molds, but only a few have lead bar.
>
> Charlie started shaking his head in the direction of a "NO", this happens several times within a few pages. I asked what's the problem, his reply is "very seldom did he ever find reference to a bullet mold carried in the shooting pouch in all his years of research." He felt yes the mold and lead was there, but cached at camp, in the bedroll, pack or the haversack, not in the shooting bag.
>
> The reason you see them in the bags today (collections) is they where placed there years later to keep everything together my family or dealers, he said he had done the same thing himself for years. Now everyone sees them in the bag and now that's where they should be.
>
> Charlie brought up a good point, "why would you carry a mold and several pieces of lead bar (considering the weight) when you could have something useable like round ball - half the weight and half the bulk !"
>
> When you give this some thought and consider everything Charlie mentioned, many of us believe he's probably correct in his thinking on these two items. So, put the mold and lead bar in the bed roll, haversack, pack, etc. they wouldn't help in a fight or killing game, yes a valuable item, just stored in the wrong location.
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
> dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
> http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
> _____________________________________
> NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
> and early history of the times. AMM journal
>
> The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
> Conklin, MI 49403
> ATTN: Jon Link
>
> The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
> quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
> _____________________________________
>
>
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> Charlie will be missed for sure.. I had more than one $20 phone call show up on my bill due to a question I asked during the course of conversation with him.
> I carry my ball mould and a couple a small "fingers" of lead wrapped in the middle of my bedroll. For what it is worth. I have a few ball in my bag, enough for a couple of days. Think of when you are going to find time to "run ball" anyway...At camp, in the evening, or morning over a nice glowing bed of coals.
> BTW. I have a nice reworked .600 Rapine that I want to trade for a .570.. Can't hardly beat them damned .600's in the rifle-gun.....Right tight fit though...<G>
> D
>
>
> buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> > Larry,
> > Right after Grant's pouch book came out I was up visiting Charlie at the museum in Chardon, we where cleaning display cases I think was the reason I went up. Anyway we got to looking at Madison's book one evening, of which many have bullet molds, but only a few have lead bar.
> >
> > Charlie started shaking his head in the direction of a "NO", this happens several times within a few pages. I asked what's the problem, his reply is "very seldom did he ever find reference to a bullet mold carried in the shooting pouch in all his years of research." He felt yes the mold and lead was there, but cached at camp, in the bedroll, pack or the haversack, not in the shooting bag.
> >
> > The reason you see them in the bags today (collections) is they where placed there years later to keep everything together my family or dealers, he said he had done the same thing himself for years. Now everyone sees them in the bag and now that's where they should be.
> >
> > Charlie brought up a good point, "why would you carry a mold and several pieces of lead bar (considering the weight) when you could have something useable like round ball - half the weight and half the bulk !"
> >
> > When you give this some thought and consider everything Charlie mentioned, many of us believe he's probably correct in his thinking on these two items. So, put the mold and lead bar in the bed roll, haversack, pack, etc. they wouldn't help in a fight or killing game, yes a valuable item, just stored in the wrong location.
> >
> > Later,
> > Buck Conner
..............................................
If you close your eyes and let your mind wonder, you too may see what many can invision, a camp fire with figures sitting around, a closer look at this scene, the faces become clearer and right in the middle sits Old Charley asking questions, taking notes and living on every word of passed adventures, as names of men and their deeds come together.
AND PROBABLY A FEW ARE CASTING BALL ALONG WITH THE STORY TELLING.
God Bless these men of adventure. ôWaughö
Dennis you paid attention to the old man, and placed your mold in the right place, alright.
I'll give it some thought on that mold and will look up that information on "Fawn Killer" today.
Worked last weekend, "weekend from hell" reason for being off today, went in last night and told my V.P. to stick the job - half an hour later I"m back at my desk and get a call and job offer to work for another V.P. - now waiting for a release date from the asshole I work for at the moment.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> > > When you give this some thought and consider everything Charlie mentioned, many of us believe he's probably correct in his thinking on these two items. So, put the mold and lead bar in the bed roll, haversack, pack, etc. they wouldn't help in a fight or killing game, yes a valuable item, just stored in the wrong location.
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Buck Conner
>
> ..............................................
> If you close your eyes and let your mind wonder, you too may see what many can invision, a camp fire with figures sitting around, a closer look at this scene, the faces become clearer and right in the middle sits Old Charley asking questions, taking notes and living on every word of passed adventures, as names of men and their deeds come together.
>
> AND PROBABLY A FEW ARE CASTING BALL ALONG WITH THE STORY TELLING.
>
> God Bless these men of adventure. ôWaughö
>
Buck,
I have always liked the statement above that you wrote at the time of Charley's passing, brother I bet he's getting an ear full from those that where there. You can bet he's documenting every little item these guys used and carried. Thanks for sharing that part of his "tribute" from the past.
I wish we would have done as you, and spent as much time as possible at the museum - again you where right, and I couldn't hear what you where telling me, and now "THE MAN" is gone.
___________________________________
Take care, folks
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
___________________________________
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On Wed, 04 August 1999, ad.miller@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> One thing I carry that I have not seen mentioned is a cow's knee. I
> find that it is usually rainy here during muzzleloading elk season,
> especially in the Bayou Salade. I credit this item with more than one year
> of feasting on FAT COW.
>
> ==========================
>
> Ok, I gotta ask...... What is a Cows Knee? I am aware of what the joint
> looks like, if you are refering to the actual knee of a cow... If so, what
> or how is it used??
>
> Addison
A cow's knee son,
Is a leather cover that cover's the lock area of you gun, many old one's where made from the back leg of a cow - thus the name "cow's knee". They are held in place with a thong or two and well greased to provide a waterproof cover - keeping this area clean and function ready. A gentlemen(one of wealth)would have a fancy tooled one made of commerical tanned leather, use to be a real nice one at the museum in Chardon, NE.
___________________________________
Take care, folks
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> "Edward Warren" (Drummond Stewart's recollections in semi-novel form mentioned a "pilaff" which a footnote identified as a rice dish, prepared some days after leaving the settlements for the Rockies (from St Louis area) which presumably used up supplies brought at the start. Not relevant to the Southern Rockies as requested, but I thought I'd throw it in.
Pat Quilter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bvannoy [mailto:bvannoy@mciworld.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 5:55 PM
> To: MtMan-List
> Subject: MtMan-List: Rice
>
>
> Does anyone have information on the documentation of rice usage in the
> Spanish Borderlands. How about the by the Mountaineers of the Southern
> Rockies??
> Chases Hawks
...............................................
The source material was taken from a :
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE REPORT, 1870. WASHINGTON,D.C.
This report represents native products important to Indian economy and often used as a source of supply by government agents, merchants, fur traders and travelers across North
America.
Wild rice called pshu by the Sioux, and the Chippewas refer to it as man-om-in. It is a constant article of food with the Northern Indians of the lakes and rivers between the
Mississippi and Lake Superior. This plant delights in mud and water five to twenty feet deep. When ripe the slightest wind shakes off the grains.
After being gathered it is laid on scaffolds about four feet high, eight wide, and twenty to fifty long, covered with reeds and grass, and a slow fire is maintained beneath for thirty-six hours, so as to parch slightly the husk, that it may be removed easily. Its beard is tougher than a rye. To separate it from the chaff or husk, a hole is made in the ground a foot wide and one deep, and lined with skins; about a peck of rice is put in at a time; an Indian steps in, with a half jump, on one foot, then on the other, until the husk is removed.
After being cleaned the grain is stored in bags. It is darker than the Caroline rice. The hull adheres tightly, and is left on the grain, and gives the bread a dark color when cooked. The husk is easily removed, after being exposed to heat. In Dakota the men gather this grain, but all other grain the women collect. An acre of rice is nearly or quite equal to an acre of wheat in nutriment. It is very palatable, when roasted and eaten dry.
............................................
And like most government reports it's at least 40 years late, so the date is probably later than the information gathered.
Rice like many other items was used for trade on most of the trade routes, haven't been able to find a report that was from Bent's Fort mentioning "wild brown rice being not the quality of the imported Mexican rice", will keep looking. Don Keas may have this report or know what book it was in !
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
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Between John K., Dave K. and Buck C. to name a few, all I do is file their information - what the hell will we do when these guys and gals are retired and put all their time to this list !!! I'll have to get a new computer with one heck of a memory bank. You guys are great for a resource with your knowledge and Mr. Hanson's and others information.
Thanks
Turtle.
>
> On Fri, 06 August 1999, Pat Quilter wrote:
> > "Edward Warren" (Drummond Stewart's recollections in semi-novel form mentioned a "pilaff" which a footnote identified as a rice dish, prepared some days after leaving the settlements for the Rockies (from St Louis area) which presumably used up supplies brought at the start. Not relevant to the Southern Rockies as requested, but I thought I'd throw it in.
> Pat Quilter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bvannoy [mailto:bvannoy@mciworld.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 5:55 PM
> > To: MtMan-List
> > Subject: MtMan-List: Rice
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have information on the documentation of rice usage in the
> > Spanish Borderlands. How about the by the Mountaineers of the Southern
> > Rockies??
> > Chases Hawks
> ...............................................
> On Fri, 06 August 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> The source material was taken from a :
> DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE REPORT, 1870. WASHINGTON,D.C.
>
> This report represents native products important to Indian economy and often used as a source of supply by government agents, merchants, fur traders and travelers across North
> America.
>
> Wild rice called pshu by the Sioux, and the Chippewas refer to it as man-om-in. It is a constant article of food with the Northern Indians of the lakes and rivers between the
> Mississippi and Lake Superior. This plant delights in mud and water five to twenty feet deep. When ripe the slightest wind shakes off the grains.
>
> After being gathered it is laid on scaffolds about four feet high, eight wide, and twenty to fifty long, covered with reeds and grass, and a slow fire is maintained beneath for thirty-six hours, so as to parch slightly the husk, that it may be removed easily. Its beard is tougher than a rye. To separate it from the chaff or husk, a hole is made in the ground a foot wide and one deep, and lined with skins; about a peck of rice is put in at a time; an Indian steps in, with a half jump, on one foot, then on the other, until the husk is removed.
>
> After being cleaned the grain is stored in bags. It is darker than the Caroline rice. The hull adheres tightly, and is left on the grain, and gives the bread a dark color when cooked. The husk is easily removed, after being exposed to heat. In Dakota the men gather this grain, but all other grain the women collect. An acre of rice is nearly or quite equal to an acre of wheat in nutriment. It is very palatable, when roasted and eaten dry.
> ............................................
>
> And like most government reports it's at least 40 years late, so the date is probably later than the information gathered.
>
> Rice like many other items was used for trade on most of the trade routes, haven't been able to find a report that was from Bent's Fort mentioning "wild brown rice being not the quality of the imported Mexican rice", will keep looking. Don Keas may have this report or know what book it was in !
>
>
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
> dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
> http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
> _____________________________________
> NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
> and early history of the times. AMM journal
>
> The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
> Conklin, MI 49403
> ATTN: Jon Link
>
> The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
> quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
> _____________________________________
>
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
The original "Moose Milk" was more involved than what has been mentioned, "Powder Hawk" Trustem now in IA (seen on this list at times)produced a product called "Powderhawk"s Pride" that was from the original recipe of Don Davis when he was shooting and winning everything at Friendship in the '50's. Curly G. and Charley H. got the recipe from Don.
Hawk and several of us where at the Museum of the Fur Trade, helping with some project Charley had, and he gave the recipe to Hawk to reproduce.
If Hawk is listing lets hear how far off these ideas are.
..................................
> Most people should be able to get moose milk at any place
> that has machine shop tools, lathe, milling machine, end > mills. Most factorys, or machine shops have some. My
> employer uses an oil that is "brand name" J-sol You
> will be surprised how long a qt. will last you.
..................................
> Macs Radiator Lube as recommended
> by someone else on the list last year DOES work great.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
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> On Sat, 07 August 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
> The original "Moose Milk" was more involved than what has
> been mentioned, "Powder Hawk" Trustem now in IA (seen on this
> list at times)produced a product called "Powderhawk"s Pride"
> that was like the original recipe of Don Davis when he was
> shooting and winning everything at Friendship............
Buck, I think the patch lube/cleaner that Hawk made "Powerhawks Pride" was a little different than the original "Moose Milk". It seemed to let you get more shots between cleaning because it self cleaned with each shot.
I still have a little left from the Gun Shop in Ft.Collins, I think they we're telling customers it was the same as Davis' "Moose Milk" !
Keep your weapon clean.
Turtle.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> About 22 years ago, on an old American Sportsman program, heard a
> possible AMM member once refer to "The Appalachian Mountain Frontier
> Period", which preceded the "Rocky Mountain Frontier Period"
> (1805-1850). Guesstimate that the former would be from 1750-1820???.
> Any comments or insight would be appreciated.
...................................
I have read of the western frontier(nw PA into OH) before and after the Rev. War period, see last sentence below.
After the Paoli Massacre, General Anthony Wayne aquired a new name (Mad Anthony Wayne), many say this came about for the action he took in fighting the British at Germantown, PA., where he found them sleeping and burned them alive, those coming out of the fire were shot (some believe this was an attempt at getting even after the Paoli affair). I read one account that after the Germantown fight, General Washington sent Wayne and his men to the western frontier (NW PA.). He was now not to be considered a Gentlemen for his actions in war !
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
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On Mon, 09 August 1999, ad.miller@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> > - extremely ferocious critter. The
> >most ferocious animal pound per pound of any animal?
..............................
I saw a Nat.Geo. series from the '50's that showed a wolverine and a grizzly bear on a trail, the bear was coming down and turned around and went up the bank to let the wolverine pass. According to ? Burnman (can't remember first name) one of the brothers that made all the bear movies in Yellowstone, this wasn't uncommon for any animal to step aside to a wolverine.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
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> On Mon, 09 August 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> On Mon, 09 August 1999, ad.miller@mindspring.com wrote:
> > <SNIP>
> > > - extremely ferocious critter. The
> > >most ferocious animal pound per pound of any animal?
> ..............................
> I saw a Nat.Geo. series from the '50's that showed a wolverine and a grizzly bear on a trail, the bear was coming down and turned around and went up the bank to let the wolverine pass. According to ? Burnman (can't remember first name) one of the brothers that made all the bear movies in Yellowstone, this wasn't uncommon for any animal to step aside to a wolverine.
>
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
Another story of wolverines:
The guy that sit next to me at work just told me about a story he had just read in one of the hunting magazines. Two professional trappers in the NW one season had problems with a wolverine that moved into their territory.
The wolverine would take their food, no matter where the it was cached (even from a tree - hanging on a rope 20' in the air with no limbs for 12' off the ground and wrapped in barbed wire). He climbed another tree then jumed from it into the cach tree.
Finally mid season the situtation is so bad the trappers agree everything they could do in trying to trap, kill or out whit the wolverine has failed, he has won and they are down to their last cache of food. The final straw that broke them, the wolverine gets into the last cache in their cabin and eats a little and sprays on the rest.
The trappers get to Nome, starved and worn down from the experience of one wolverine.
Sounds like wolverines are hell on wheels.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
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On Sun, 08 August 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 06 August 1999, Mike Rock wrote:
> > On the previous post about oats..my desire is to be able to
> >'roll my own', oats, that is....anyone who knows a reference,
> > or how, holler, please!
> >
> > Mike Rock
>
>
> Mike,
> I called Buck's house this morning, his wife said he got called into work, so I grabbed what was on his web site under:
>
> CEREALS AND MEALS
> blue corn meal,
> blended meal,
> barley grits,
> rye-rolled,
> corn grits,
> oats-rolled,
> oats-steel cut,
> wheat-coarse,
> corn meal,
> millet meal.
>
> Nothing shown for oat meal, but does show oats-rolled, oats-steel, I'll try him later to night.
>
> Turtle.
>
......................................
Mike and Turtle,
What Turtle has shown; is the most common reference found from supply and trade lists; 1750 Pennsylvania German for steel-cut oats, and 1820 northeast lists for rolled oats.
Earlier dates have been found on a few lists, but not enough reference to say it was a commonly traded grain. This is not surprising as record keeping was not kept as accurately as in later years when competition had become a factor.
When you look at either; steel-cut or rolled oats when boiled, they both look close to a course oat meal, this is probably what you may want Mike.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
On Sun, 08 August 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 06 August 1999, Mike Rock wrote:
> > On the previous post about oats..my desire is to be able to
> >'roll my own', oats, that is....anyone who knows a reference,
> > or how, holler, please!
> >
> > Mike Rock
>
>
> Mike,
> I called Buck's house this morning, his wife said he got called into work, so I grabbed what was on his web site under:
>
> CEREALS AND MEALS
> blue corn meal,
> blended meal,
> barley grits,
> rye-rolled,
> corn grits,
> oats-rolled,
> oats-steel cut,
> wheat-coarse,
> corn meal,
> millet meal.
>
> Nothing shown for oat meal, but does show oats-rolled, oats-steel, I'll try him later to night.
>
> Turtle.
>
......................................
Mike and Turtle,
What Turtle has shown; is the most common reference found from supply and trade lists; 1750 Pennsylvania German for steel-cut oats, and 1820 northeast lists for rolled oats.
Earlier dates have been found on a few lists, but not enough reference to say it was a commonly traded grain. This is not surprising as record keeping was not kept as accurately as in later years when competition had become a factor.
When you look at either; steel-cut or rolled oats when boiled, they both look close to a course oat meal, this is probably what you may want Mike.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Many of the AMM members, as well as other groups and individuals have traveled in the footsteps of the "Corps of Discovery". Some write about their travels, other just talk about their experiences among friends and at party encampments.
I'm an AMM member, but have never traveled as a group with the AMM members on these trails.
But as a member of a small group of adventures have traveled from Ft. Benton MT to Ft. de Chartres ILL and all points in between. Then in another group years before have traveled from Phila. PA to Ft. Osage, both groups where doing apprx. 1805-1810 time periods, equipage, food, etc.
This has taken myself a 30 year period of a few weeks to a month at a time compared to the couple of years of the original adventure. There are several that have done the whole experience from sea to shinging sea in following in the footsteps of L&C or other greats.
Have talked to several new groups wanting to start the same trips and have contacted myself and others for advice and what to expect; as original routes have changed in varoius places with river and Corp of Engineer changes, as well as private land and gaining access from owners.
Myself I need to do the Columbia River to the coast to have completed the total experience, really don't know if that will ever happen as job, home and age makes a big difference with every year that passes.
God Bless anyone following in our forefathers footsteps whether it's Lewis & Clark or another traveler of the past.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Bicentennial Reenactment
Date: 09 Aug 1999 17:46:17 -0700
On Mon, 09 August 1999, LODGEPOLE@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/8/99 10:59:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net writes:
>
> << Is anything like this remotely possible? >>
> There is a re-enactment scheduled to start in 2004 that will run from one end
> of the country to the other keeping as close to the timeline as possible.
> things the last I heard were getting out of hand with a bunch of rich (so &
> so's) taking over and really getting things screwed up so as to make sure all
> the publicity lands in thier direction. I was giving serious thought to
> getting involved but at this time I'm not too sure I want to. When I get
> more details on this event I will pass them on.
>
> Longshot
________________________________________
I have done the Phila. Pa. up to the Great Lakes and over to the head waters of the Mississippi with a group of about 20, that many years ago - that's when Buck Conner was young, maybe it was longer ! Have done parts of the Upper Missouri, and like others need to get back at it, the sooner the netter.
Like Longshot said I was contacted about the doin's in 2004, then here comes some "hi-rollers" and they are trying to suck up all the credit that everyone else is working toward. It's not so much credit per say, it was to be a large group effort and now it's stalled because of a few.
___________________________________
Take care, folks
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> An article by Gary Mueller in BOOK OF BUCKSKINNING IV indicates that: "Gun
> cases were also made of wool. Nothing beats wool to repel water and
> moisture, therefore helping keep you and your gun dry and warm." He cites
> a lot of works at the end of the article but quotes nothing specific to
> back up this assumption. I carry my trade gun in a wool case similar to
> the one pictured in this article. I had heard that new guns were often
> shipped to a buyer in woolen cases but I can't remember the source I read
> this in. The article goes into some detail on colors styles and prices
> paid for point blankets, etc. Worth reading.
>
> Shoots-the-Prairie Larry Huber
>
______________________________
The biggest problem with wool is if moisture gets on the gun and its put in the wool case, the wool will hold the moisture and within 24 hours or less you have a nice rusted gun. We have found when around water, canoe trips, etc. one is better off to remove the weapon and carry it out of the case, before putting it back in the case - make sure case is dry, wipe the gun down with a light coat of oil. Leather cases are worst yet.
Turtle.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> On Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:14:08 -0600 Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net> writes:
> >Has anyone got or seen a TVM trade gun? I'm thinking real serious
> >about
> >getting one. Based on their other stuff, I will, but I'd like the
> >input.
> >
> >Thanks ahead of time,
> >
> >Allen Hall in Fort Hall country
> >
> >Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country
> >
> >
> well here we go. i bought a tvm Virginia style riffle. swamped barrel and
> iron furniture.
> it took 41/2 months to get here and when i got it the total price was
> 946.00 smackers.
> i like it but i could have got the same quality of workmanship from a kit
> gun for 1/3 less.
> i guess i was expecting perfection at that price. i was pretty green at
> the time, but quality is quality. ...............
The last smoothbore Jack built me will be the last, period. Poor wood to metal fit, think one of his newbee's did the work, unhappy enough that I glass bedded questionable areas and traded it off.
Turtle.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> But as a member of a small group of adventures have traveled from Ft. Benton MT to Ft. de Chartres ILL and all points in between. Then in another group years before have traveled from Phila. PA to Ft. Osage, both groups where doing apprx. 1805-1810 time periods, equipage, food, etc.
>
> This has taken myself a 30 year period of a few weeks to a month at a time compared to the couple of years of the original adventure. There are several that have done the whole experience from sea to shinging sea in following in the footsteps of L&C or other greats.
>
>
__________________________________________
Like Buck - several of us have followed the L&C trail, made several of the trips that Buck mentioned over the years, haven't had the time, money or get up and go that he and a few others have had lately. Have really enjoyed the Upper Missouri and Yellowstone rivers over the years. Can't believe what going on the Mississippi would be like in a canoe, but the small groups have done this and more.
Turtle.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
I have dealt with Jack for probably 30 years, buying, selling , and when I closed my store sold him all the locks, barrels, stocks and misc. gun parts.
Like any business, as you get larger and hire help, sometimes parts of the business may suffer due to being so busy and sometimes can't cover all bases.
Jack is like anyone else that cares about his customers and will be more than willing to talk over and take care of the problem.
I know in Turtle's case I saw the gun, he should have made the call, but let things go to the point that selling it, and moving on was probably the best for everyone involved.
Sometimes one has to just flat ass walk away, no matter what the deal.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Excellent point. I have also considered an oiled or painted canvas cover with perhaps a wool lining for those
expected times when dry is only a memory. Making one would be easy but authenticating it may prove tough indeed.
Does one typically plug the muzzle during times of transport or shall we let it breathe?
Tom
turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> The biggest problem with wool is if moisture gets on the gun and its put in the wool case, the wool will hold the moisture and within 24 hours or less you have a nice rusted gun. We have found when around water, canoe trips, etc. one is better off to remove the weapon and carry it out of the case, before putting it back in the case - make sure case is dry, wipe the gun down with a light coat of oil. Leather cases are worst yet.
>
> Turtle.
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> I have two guns by Jack....an early Virginia and an Early English fowler.
> The Virginia was signed on the barrel by Jack, so I assume it was his work.
>
> Dave Kanger
............................
Dave,
I see we agree on this subject about dealing with whatever the dealer is selling. Be calm and go easy when trying to get a problem settled, when I still had a retail store - that's what I would preach to anyone behind the counter. To stay in business, and the one Dave is in is tough. Any service type business whether your the May Tag Man or the lock builder, you have to treat the customer just the way you like to be treated. Man I've made some hairy deals in trying to keep a customer happy, and you "Turtle" know how close the profit margain was on some of our dealings.
That's why he will make a remark about me or my store, as others have. If I took them down the trail and shorted them, do you think they would even say anything - hell NO.
There are a lot of good guys in the gun business and Old Jack is one, I took him on his first buffalo hunt back in the early '80's, with Freddie Harris and some of his other southern buddies, had a heck of a time figuring out what they would say when a buffalo would run at them. I thought they where saying "shoot" - that's what I'm yelling, turned out afterward, they where saying "oh shi...", we where close.
I have hunted, camped, got drunk and just had fun with these guys, and Jack never changes, he's just a Southern Gentleman.
Thanks for your time.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
A couple of weeks ago someone posted to the list wanting the name of someone to assemble a rifle kit.
Steve Zihn repaired a badly damaged double-barrel shotgun for me three years ago at the Riverton, Wyoming 1838 Reenactment. He is reasonable, a fine craftsman and a nice guy.
Steve Zihn
112 Riggs Road
Shoshoni, WY 82649
307-856-6431
I recommend you send him your "machined parts" as Nelson coined the phrase.
> It is my understanding that Blackpowder guns are NOT considered firearms! That is why you can buy and sell and ship without a licence.
> L.A. Romsa
.................................
I receive blackpowder firearms for customers all the time without even using my FFL, and UPS delivers them, boxes show picture of them or labeled on ends with a description. This is from several of the supply houses, who ever has the best price at the time.
In fact I have received 2 this week, a long gun with labeling on the end and a Ruger Old Army with the Ruger emblem on the brown box. Just sent Dennis Miles a rifle insured as that, with no problem a few months ago.
Find this subject strange as I mentioned this to Elliott Bros, House of Muskets, and several others when ordering parts this week, they have had no problems ????
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> > It is my understanding that Blackpowder guns are NOT considered firearms! That is why you can buy and sell and ship without a licence.
> > L.A. Romsa
> .................................
> I receive blackpowder firearms for customers all the time without even using my FFL, and UPS delivers them, boxes show picture of them or labeled on ends with a description. This is from several of the supply houses, who ever has the best price at the time.
>
> In fact I have received 2 this week, a long gun with labeling on the end and a Ruger Old Army with the Ruger emblem on the brown box. Just sent Dennis Miles a rifle insured as that, with no problem a few months ago.
>
> Find this subject strange as I mentioned this to Elliott Bros, House of Muskets, and several others when ordering parts this week, they have had no problems ????
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
> dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
> http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
> _____________________________________
> NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
> and early history of the times. AMM journal
>
> The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
> Conklin, MI 49403
> ATTN: Jon Link
>
> The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
> quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
> _____________________________________
>
>
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Under Federal Law our muzzleloaders are not considered FIREARMS. They are classified by the government as ANTIQUE REPLICAS....Therefore they are not subject to gun control restrictions (so far).
UPS ought to ship it....but I'd just box it up and declare the contents as "ANTIQUE REPLICA" just as our own Government classifies them... You can't get in trouble that way. And your not even bending the truth.
Also, next time you call your buddies to go to the range, ask them if they wanna go to the ANTIQUE REPLICA range. See what they say......hehe
> >Does anyone out there know when steel wool and sandpaper were invented?
> >
> >TIA,
> >HBC
> >
> >****************************************
> >Henry B. Crawford
Henry,
Mr. Vernon Bigsby at the Valley Forge Museum had written a paper probably 15-18 years ago on a coarse sharp edged screen that was used like sand paper in the smoothing of military weapons, could be flushed free of stock finish and reused. They had samples of the wire like material found at this site before the Rev. War.
Have read in an old Bannerman Brothers catalog of the use of steel wool being used at or right after the Civil War; from the description it sounded like it was wire-like turnings from a lathes when making barrel, axles, etc.
they used it to put a polish on the finished metal parts, like we would do today.
Will look for both of these and send you copies of both.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> The Jim Baker Party web site is now open,,, check it out please reply to mailto: bill@klesinger.com
>
> http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
>
_____________________________________
Bill,
Looks like you guys are going to "shine" when the Baker Party page is done, Buck told me it would be Colorado area only, those that came, passed through or had dealings in.
That's an excellent idea for each state party to consider,(the Baker Party came up with a good one)it would sure make it much easier down the road for everyone when researching a location as to what went on. This is a neat way of looking at ones own state, thanks.
Turtle.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
yes the site will feature any trapper, trader that was in the Colorado area during the fur trade. (the Colorado area is going to be ( anyplace South of Ft. Bridger, Ft. Laramie, West of central Kansas, and Northern Mexico) as per the time period 1810 to 1850.
If anyone has information (text or picture's) of these people and would like to share it let me know. We will post it to the site and give credit for the information.
Thank You
Bill
Jim Baker Party, AMM 1617
turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
> On Fri, 13 August 1999, Bill Klesinger wrote:
> > The Jim Baker Party web site is now open,,, check it out please reply to mailto: bill@klesinger.com
> >
> > http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
> >
> _____________________________________
> Bill,
>
> Looks like you guys are going to "shine" when the Baker Party page is done, Buck told me it would be Colorado area only, those that came, passed through or had dealings in.
>
> That's an excellent idea for each state party to consider,(the Baker Party came up with a good one)it would sure make it much easier down the road for everyone when researching a location as to what went on. This is a neat way of looking at ones own state, thanks.
>
> Turtle.
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
If I were you I would stop at the "Buffalo Bill Historical Center" about 50 miles from Yellowstone. I love that place!! They have everything from wheelocks to old west guns, And the Boone and Crocket Trophy room (BIGGG GAME!!) and much more. Here's the museums web site: http://www.bbhc.org/index.htm
Rob Voyles (CA)
--
On Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:31:59 northwoods wrote:
>Well it's that time again. Time to pack the truck and for the wife and I to
>head out and "get away from it all" for a while. Been lookin forward to this
>for a while. We will be leaving WI in early September and heading to Glacier
>Park or thereabouts on U.S. 2, then dropping down through Yellowstone to
>Jackson Hole or there abouts and heading east back home.
>Anyone have any suggestions on places to go, things to do,things to see?
> > > The Jim Baker Party web site is now open,,, check it out please reply to mailto: bill@klesinger.com
> > >
> > > http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
> > >
> > _____________________________________
Wild Bill,
What you have up so far really "shines", and what your members are capable of will just add to your site.
Haven't seen many of the older ones for a period of time, Blanket Ass, The Capt., Pat or Buck. But know with the younger members and what I've been told by Buck, you got a good group.
With writers like Pat, Mike, Stan and Buck - you'll have lots to share with everyone, good luck in a new venture for the Jim Baker Party.
Oh, tell Buck to drag out some of the canoe trip pictures and Jim to get some of the horse pictures out - that would be interseting to just look and wish we had shared some of those trips.
___________________________________
Take care, folks
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
I have been adding new pages all morning, more of a shell of what is to come
thanks
bill
concho@uswestmail.net wrote:
> > > On Fri, 13 August 1999, Bill Klesinger wrote:
> > > > The Jim Baker Party web site is now open,,, check it out please reply to mailto: bill@klesinger.com
> > > >
> > > > http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
> > > >
> > > _____________________________________
> Wild Bill,
>
> What you have up so far really "shines", and what your members are capable of will just add to your site.
>
> Haven't seen many of the older ones for a period of time, Blanket Ass, The Capt., Pat or Buck. But know with the younger members and what I've been told by Buck, you got a good group.
>
> With writers like Pat, Mike, Stan and Buck - you'll have lots to share with everyone, good luck in a new venture for the Jim Baker Party.
>
> Oh, tell Buck to drag out some of the canoe trip pictures and Jim to get some of the horse pictures out - that would be interseting to just look and wish we had shared some of those trips.
>
> ___________________________________
> Take care, folks
>
> D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
> "One who favors the finer things in life"
> ___________________________________
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
If you have the time stop by the new Lewis & Clark Interpretive Center in Great Falls, MT. It's worth the $5 admission fee just to see the movie they show about the expedition. Giant Springs (the spring described by Lewis(?)) is just a short distance down the road. The waters are running a little low this time of year, but the the falls and the reason for the month long portage are still pretty impressive.
> Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary list the first documented written
> use of the words 'steel wool' in 1896.
>
> Glenn Darilek
> Iron Burner
> >Friends,
> >Does anyone out there know when steel wool and sandpaper were invented?
> >
> >TIA,
> >HBC
I have read that, in several accounts and seen what you found, but from what I found else where, that was when the product was called this [steel wool] as a "trade" name and possibly patented at that time, around before this as mentioned before - just not called "steel wool".
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Check out the new "AMM Jim Baker Party" page, Ol' Bill is layed up for awhile and got busy working on our web site, for being a "new kid" at this he is sure lookin' good. He just got started, what will it look like in a year or two.
http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
GREAT JOB "Powder-to-Burn".
Talk about Colorado History, adventure, and just general information - she's here, and it's just got started.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
_____________________________________
NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade
and early history of the times. AMM journal
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year -
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
On Sun, 22 August 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> Brothers,
>
> Check out the new "AMM Jim Baker Party" page, Ol' Bill is layed up for awhile and got busy working on our web site, for being a "new kid" at this he is sure lookin' good. He just got started, what will it look like in a year or two.
>
> http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
>
> GREAT JOB "Powder-to-Burn".
>
> Talk about Colorado History, adventure, and just general information - she's here, and it's just got started.
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
Hey Buck,
Your right, that ol'"Powder-to-Burn" is very talented for being a "new kid" with web building, looks like he could give all of us a lesson or two.
Man, give a few years and he'll be changing work skills, this is easy to work with and fun to look around at.
Thanks guys, Oh - looks like Bill put your tail to work Buck, about time you shared some of the goddies in that old gray head.
Love
Turtle.
___________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
On Sun, 22 August 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Check out the new "AMM Jim Baker Party" page,
> > >
> > > http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html
> > >
> > > GREAT JOB "Powder-to-Burn".
> ________________________
> > Thanks guys, Oh - looks like Bill put your tail to work Buck, about time you shared some of the goddies in that old gray head.
> >
> > Love
> > Turtle.
> > ___________________________
>
> Turtle,
>
> You retard, what the heck are "goddies", stop picking your tooth and pay attention to what the other finger is doing.
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
-----------------------
Haven't been around you two for years, and you both are still going at each other - guess some-things/people don't change.
If that "Gump" character hadn't claimed that bumper sticker, I'd swear one of you two came up with it. There's always Something Happening with these two.
And Turtle when have you gotten so "lovey dovey".
___________________________________
Take care, folks
D.L."Concho"Smith + Washington, MO. +
"One who favors the finer things in life"
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Subject: MtMan-List: Hudson's Bay Company Frontier Artists
Date: 22 Aug 1999 23:21:55 -0400
I recently read about a "frontier artist" hired by the Hudson's Bay Company: Paul Kane (1847). Does anyone know the name of any artists in the employ of the Hudson's Bay Company prior to 1840? Thank you in advance.
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hudson's Bay Company Frontier Artists
Date: 23 Aug 1999 08:02:19 -0600
Ms. Glise,
You may wish to look at the Swiss artist Peter Rindisbacher. He painted
in the 1820s & 30s out of the Selkirk colony on the Canadian Red Rivr.
The book _The Artist Was a Young Man_ by Alvin Josephy, Jr., (Amon
Carter Museum, Fort Worth, 1970) is probably the best work on
Rindisbacher.
Hope this was of some assistance.
YMHOS,
David Mullen
--
David & Evelyn Mullen
202 Mesa Verde
Jemez Springs, NM 87025
(505) 829-3212
email: dmullen@jemez.com
Laura Glise wrote:
>
> I recently read about a "frontier artist" hired by the Hudson's Bay Company: Paul Kane (1847). Does anyone know the name of any artists in the employ of the Hudson's Bay Company prior to 1840? Thank you in advance.
> excellent idea and ground breaking on the Jim Baker Party
> web site. - one for Michigan region in the works??? -
________________________________________
Jon,
We would like to see in time as many of the AMM State or Territories, put web sites of their regions on the internet. I know that some may disagree, but who else would do such an undertaking.
The value of this would be excellent research material for those in the area, plus give a list of people to contact with questions on subjects that pertain to the region. That was one of the thinkings when we started the Jim Baker Party site, not bragging or any of that baloney, just trying to give old and new folks some good information, isn't this what it's all about !
As far as anyone's expertise, we all start from square one, and believe me we all make big time mistakes, whether its in doing the research, your mind-set, or equipage. In all the years I've been doing this I have made some classic blunders, and have had some damn neat garage sales unloading wrong equipage for my personal time frame.
This sport no matter what we call it; trekking, living history, reenactments, buckskinning - whatever, is a learning experience that we can all learn from and share our thoughts about.
These new web site's that are being worked on by some of the parties are the children of Dean Rudy's page (now I'm not calling him a Mother, I don't think). But the work on his pages are the master of buckingskinning/mountainman material. The Baker site and new ones coming up will be more area coverage for their regions. In NO way are we trying to change direction or do anything other than provide more information about the people that came, stayed, or passed through each region. Hope that's clear.
One other thing that's neat, if your going to an event out of your area, what a neat resource to see who and when or what happened in the place being visited, or if moving to a new area - now you have contacts. This is a very valuable tool at everyone's finger tips, no matter whether your a researcher, history buff or just interested in an area.
I can't say enough about "Powder-To-Burn" he has knocked himself out with this party project, plus has done a wonderful job for being new to the web builder title. Thanks Bill.
I had better stop bending your ears and good luck on those web sites guys.
Later,
Buck Conner
* * * *CHECK THESE SITES OUT:* * * *
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
* * NOW AVAILABLE: * * The AMM Journal.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
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a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
_____________________________________
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On Fri, 27 August 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 26 August 1999, JON MARINETTI wrote:
> > excellent idea and ground breaking on the Jim Baker Party
> > web site. - one for Michigan region in the works??? -
> ________________________________________
> Jon,
> We would like to see in time as many of the AMM State or Territories, put web sites of their regions on the internet. I know that some may disagree, but who else would do such an undertaking.
>
> The value of this would be excellent research material for those in the area, plus give a list of people to contact with questions on subjects that pertain to the region. That was one of the thinkings when we started the Jim Baker Party site, not bragging or any of that baloney, just trying to give old and new folks some good information, isn't this what it's all about !
>
> As far as anyone's expertise, we all start from square one, and believe me we all make big time mistakes, whether its in doing the research, your mind-set, or equipage. In all the years I've been doing this I have made some classic blunders, and have had some damn neat garage sales unloading wrong equipage for my personal time frame.
>
> This sport no matter what we call it; trekking, living history, reenactments, buckskinning - whatever, is a learning experience that we can all learn from and share our thoughts about.
>
> These new web site's that are being worked on by some of the parties are the children of Dean Rudy's page (now I'm not calling him a Mother, I don't think). But the work on his pages are the master of buckingskinning/mountainman material. The Baker site and new ones coming up will be more area coverage for their regions. In NO way are we trying to change direction or do anything other than provide more information about the people that came, stayed, or passed through each region. Hope that's clear.
>
> One other thing that's neat, if your going to an event out of your area, what a neat resource to see who and when or what happened in the place being visited, or if moving to a new area - now you have contacts. This is a very valuable tool at everyone's finger tips, no matter whether your a researcher, history buff or just interested in an area.
>
> I can't say enough about "Powder-To-Burn" he has knocked himself out with this party project, plus has done a wonderful job for being new to the web builder title. Thanks Bill.
>
> I had better stop bending your ears and good luck on those web sites guys.
>
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
Hey Buck,
Thanks for the clear position and reasoning you have told us and for such a project that you guys have taken on, we all can benefit from you and other's labor in these party web sites.
Thank you members of the Baker Party, Dean Rudy and others to come; without these resources, research would be very slow in these areas.
Take care - we leave as friends,
Lee Boyer
Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec.
State College, Pennsylvania
___________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> Hey all you "tobacco drinkers" If you smoke a clay pipe, I have the
> > place for you.
> > www.bytor.com/pipes/pipes.htm "Olde World Fine Clays", Stephen Bray's
> > place. I just received my new clay from him.. These are as different from
> > the "mass produced" clays that you see and buy as the difference between a
> > Gussler Gun and a "K-Mart special"
> > good...
> > Well, that was my plug of the day..<G>
> > D
Dennis,
Next time you talk to Buck, ask him about the originals he has from Bent's and Bridger. They're broken, but pretty close to being complete (small pieces missing and cracks), maybe he could scan them for us to see. I believe he was given them by Charley Hanson many years ago, use to have them on display in his store.
I tried to trade for one and that was like asking for his first born, not a pretty site. You know how close him and Charley where.
Take care - we leave as friends,
Lee Boyer
Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec.
State College, Pennsylvania
___________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> > Hey all you "tobacco drinkers" If you smoke a clay pipe, I have the
> > > place for you.
> > > www.bytor.com/pipes/pipes.htm "Olde World Fine Clays", Stephen Bray's
> > > place. I just received my new clay from him.. These are as different from
> > > the "mass produced" clays that you see and buy as the difference between a
> > > Gussler Gun and a "K-Mart special"
> > > good...
> > > Well, that was my plug of the day..<G>
> > > D
>
> Dennis,
> Next time you talk to Buck, ask him about the originals he has from Bent's and Bridger. They're broken, but pretty close to being complete (small pieces missing and cracks), maybe he could scan them for us to see. I believe he was given them by Charley Hanson many years ago, use to have them on display in his store.
> I tried to trade for one and that was like asking for his first born, not a pretty site. You know how close him and Charley where.
>
> Take care - we leave as friends,
> Lee Boyer
> Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec.
> State College, Pennsylvania
> ___________________________
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> > > On Thu, 26 August 1999, JON MARINETTI wrote:
> > > excellent idea and ground breaking on the Jim Baker Party
> > > web site. - one for Michigan region in the works??? -
> > One other thing that's neat, if your going to an event out of your area, what a neat resource to see who and when or what happened in the place being visited, or if moving to a new area - now you have contacts. This is a very valuable tool at everyone's finger tips, no matter whether your a researcher, history buff or just interested in an area.
> > Later,
> > Buck Conner
> Thank you members of the Baker Party, Dean Rudy and others to come; without these resources, research would be very slow in these areas.
> Take care - we leave as friends,
> Lee Boyer
This idea would work better than having everyone try and do something, wouldn't that be a mess going through that material.
In the past organized groups put together better projects than a half dozen doubling up on most subjects or events, whether is source material, a shoot, trek or an event.
"May the spirit be with you"
D.L. Smith
Livingston, MO.
Historical Coordinator - Missouri
___________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Several of the members of this list were kind enough to setup a trade blanket web pages for us to move our un-needed items.
Your probably thing how successful would this be, or do I want to be waste my time !
You better start going through your equipage and gather all the un-wanted or un-needed stuff you have had for years and list them new price, condition, selling price.
The reason I'm telling you this is these sites works; I listed about 15-20 items last Friday night about 8PM mdt and by Saturday morning 11AM mdt had sold everything. I'm talking from a diamond fly to a pair of F&I War riding boots, big items and small - it all went.
You may want to give this a second thought, sites at:
> On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:17:30 -0400 ad.miller@mindspring.com writes:
> >IMHO, I think filing a tad off the front sight will raise the point of
> >impact... That is what I remember from my Instructors Training course
>
> Ad Miller
> IMHO
> dont believe that filing the front sight will solve his total
> problem---would take about .32 to get the strike of the bullet to
> move 16"---it would help but is not the solution---what is happening is
> that he is not down on the gun with his head and is looking at the sight
> at a angle---most new shooters of smooth bores do this--- suggest that
> you use a different sight picture---
>
> use your thumb and pointing finger and grip the barrel so that they
> protrude above the plain of the barrel---this gives you a rear reference
> point have your fingers placed about the same height as the front sight
> ---then look thru your fingers and center the front sight and level it
> with the top of your fingers---as a reference shoot it a few times like
> that and see if the strike of the bullet comes up---if it does you are in
> good shape if not lower your fingers and try again---pappy horn taught me
> to do that many years ago and it works when there is no rear sight---you
> can pick up almost any smooth bore and be on target at 50 yds---if you do
> it that way---also your powder charge should be increased by at least 10
> to 20 gr to bring the strike of the bullet up a tad before you start the
> sighting in process---shoot for groop and not for location on the
> target---if it is still shooting low then
>
> check the squareness of the end of the barrel and the crown---a off-angle
> of the crown or a not sq crown will make the gun shoot off quite a
> bit---use a framers square and check at least 4 places on the barrel---if
> the crown is damaged then it will shoot off also---eleminate the obvious
> before you start fileing on the sight----you can also use the tang screw
> slot as a method of centering the front sight ---turn the screw so that
> it is parallel to the barrel---gives you a sight reference point---have
> seen people use a washer under the tang screw to rase it up so that there
> is a simbelance of a rear sight when shooting a gun in---constant
> position of the head is critical to get consistancy with a smoothbore
> with out a rear sight---
>
> if all else fails you might have to bend the barrel---as cpt lathe
> suggested----check the arcives we had a long discussion on this several
> months ago---some good info there in the archives---if you dont
> understand my posting feeel free to give me a call any evening and i will
> talk you thru the sighting in process and getting that impact of the ball
> in the right place---have helped a many a smooth bore shooter get it to
> work correct---you can also regulate the barrel to get the strike of the
> bullet to move in the direction you wish but would have to talk you thru
> that process---I have regulated several of them and moved the strike of
> the bullet as much as 12 inches without a problem at 50 yds---the only
> problem with regulating it is that if you are shooting buck and ball or
> shot it will greatly change your point of impact---so i normally dont do
> that until i am sure the barrel is shooting off and it is not shooter
> error---
>
> REMEMBER----head position on the stock is critical with a smooth bore and
> must be consistant ---even if it is wrong???
>
> SUGGESTION----have a nother smooth bore shooter shoot your gun and see
> where he hits on the target---shoot at least 5 shots and look at the
> center of mast of the groop.
>
> hope i have helped if you have any questions feel free to give me a call
>
> YMHOSANT
> =+=
> "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
Guys,
I have done as Hawk has suggested, even put a small peep sight screw into the tang screw to get on target. Round barrel guns are tricky at times, but for some real fun wait until you get an oxy.barrel smoothbore with rear sight that won't keep 3 shots at 50 yards on a 5' x 5' archery target.
Sometimes smoothbores can drive you crazy, had a oxy. barreled smoothbore gun (Dennis Miles owns it now) that would not shoot period. I tried everything and finally gave it to several super shots to see what they could do - same story. Ron Long, of Long's Locks (world class shooter) did everything possible, even put barrel in his lathe to check out, end of story is now Dennis has a hell of a shooter - a rifled jager. We gave up after hundreds of rounds and raplaced the oxy. barrel.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
__________________________________
The AMM Journal.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> Dang Buck, I was hoping you were gonna say you pawned that no shootin sucker
> off on Ole Dennis. [ Just kidding. ] I aim to hook up with Dennis in a
> shootin match this fall, and I'll need all the help I can get. I have seen
> the targets he has shot with that gun. Real impressive.
> Pendleton
For a kid, he's a fair shot and one hell of a con-man, watch your coins when your in a match with him. You'll find out what a "sucker" - one can be Larry.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
__________________________________
The AMM Journal.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Gee Buck.....I'm hurt.. Hear that sound? 'Tis me wee heart a breakin'. i 'tis.....
D
Buck wrote:
> For a kid, he's a fair shot and one hell of a con-man, watch your coins when your in a match with him. You'll find out what a "sucker" - one can be Larry.
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
>
> AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
> http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
> __________________________________
>
> The AMM Journal.
> The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
> 3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
> ATTN: Jon Link
> Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
> a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
> _____________________________________
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> You boys better watch yer topknots....that Larry Pendleton is the very best bald headed rifle shooter in all 50 states and he is prepared to prove it at any time. Ain'tcha Larry?
> yer good friend
> Lanney
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Miles <deforge1@wesnet.com>
> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 8:54 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Low Shooter
>
> > Concho..
> > They are just tellin' stories.... I'll nae wager on shootin'....I swear..<G>
> > D
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Money, Money, did I hear a wager on shootin'
> > >
> > > "May the spirit be with you"
> > > D.L. Smith
> > > Livingston, MO.
> > > Historical Coordinator - Missouri
> > > ___________________________________
> > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> > > Gee Buck.....I'm hurt.. Hear that sound? 'Tis me wee heart a breakin'. i 'tis.....
> > > D
> >
>
> Money, Money, did I hear a wager on shootin'
>
> "May the spirit be with you"
> D.L. Smith
I wondered how long it would take for the rattlesnake to appear. Where have you been, have had folks from this list contacting me about you moving to Livingston MO - what's that near ? And now your a cor-in-nat-or of history, what century - Roman !
Your a heck of a guy, stir the list up then disappear, have you check the Baker page lately ?
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
__________________________________
The AMM Journal.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> what do you mean by a oxi. barrel smoothebore ---do you mean an octigon
> barreled smooth bore?????
>
>
> "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
Sorry mean hexagon not octagon, was in a hurry.
OFF TOPIC
Have a friend that is an instructer at the Olympic Training Center in Colo. Spgs. CO teaching offhand shooting to the different teams. He has experienced similiar problems with round, hexagon and octagon barrels as far as shooting to point of aim. They're rifled of course, but has played with smooth bores also, he's says some really shot and then there will be one that won't do anything. Like pouring the ball down a rain spout.
Another things of interest is the hexagon and octagon barrels are showing up the round barrels (the ones the perform) in cooling down faster and having less barrel whip. I went down to their lab (HP Loveland CO), they have an indoor rifle range for testing. Had the (3) barrels setup with guages every 2" on each barrel - testing for heat temp and movement. The hexagon was the best for all tests, even in modern cal. 308, 270 and 22.
I guess our forefather had a good idea on what to build !!
Oh, they have rifles and pistols for off-hand and free-style in hexagon.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
__________________________________
The AMM Journal.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
I would like to thank all of you for this very interesting information on tipi's and rings.
Wish I had this information years ago on the tipi rings; was clearing several large meadows near Estes Park CO for a farmer with a small cat (dozer) and shoved 12-15 sets of rings off into a hedge row. He broke up the ground and buried anyhting that may have laid on the surface, sad. After we where done he told me the rocks where tipi rings, never fails.
Thanks again.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Territory
http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html
__________________________________
The AMM Journal.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
Subscription rate for the T&LR is $20 for
a year - qtr issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
> I wondered how long it would take for the rattlesnake to appear. Where have you been, have had folks from this list contacting me about you moving to Livingston MO - what's that near ? And now your a cor-in-nat-or of history, what century - Roman !
>
> Your a heck of a guy, stir the list up then disappear, have you check the Baker page lately ?
>
>
> Later,
> Buck Conner
I are a working person you know, "one with historical knowledge" according to the title !!!!! Livingston is a wide spot in the road, for now it works and living expense is agreeable. Covering 1750-1850 for a time period, so that's a good deal for research of the area. I haven't had much time with moving, a new job and getting settled, will try and check list on a daily routine. Will partake if I have worthy replys.
"May the spirit be with you"
D.L. Smith
Livingston, MO.
Historical Coordinator - Missouri
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