Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fort Hall (Idaho) and the Mountain Man Museum
Date: 02 Jul 1999 05:36:59 -0700
Lee,
Have seen what you mentioned and have never said anything, thinking maybe it was me expecting to much, guess my thoughts were like yours. I thought I was spoiled because of fur trade forts like Bent's Fort, Ft. Union, Ft. deChartre, Ft. Osage, Ft. Charlette and the Museum of the Fur Trade to mention a few, thanks for how you felt on your visits.
Our governments will take the time, spend our money and then fall short on the least expensive part, providing educational material and knowledgeable guides. Most folks interested in history, reenactments, etc. would give their "I" teeth to work in these places and have fun doing it. And again we the tax payers take it in the shorts.
Later
YF&B
Buck Conner
Jim Baker Party/Colorado Territory
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade and early history of the times, the one the American Mountain Men read and write.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the bi-monthly journal is $20 for a year or $35 for two years. Give it a try, you'll blow that much in a couple of stops at 7-11 for junk food.
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Joining the AMM-get the journal
Date: 02 Jul 1999 08:17:43 -0700
A good way to get to know the AMM - it's values and what to expect is do as Buck Conner has suggested.
Turtle.
_______________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade and early history of the times, the one the American Mountain Men read and write.
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the bi-monthly journal is $20 for a year or $35 for two years. Give it a try, you'll blow that much in a couple of stops at 7-11 for junk food.
______________________________
> On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:53:36 -0500 Jim Colburn <jc60714@navix.net>
> writes:
> >Washtahay-
> >At 08:35 PM 6/30/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >>How does one go about joining the AMM? There's only a handful of
> >skinners in my immediate area, most folks are Civil War folks.
> > Todd, they don't really exist.
> > Its really just two or three guys who came up with this great
> >scheme to
> >drive people crazy-lets PRETEND to start this really neat sounding
> >organization. When people try to contact us to ask about joining,
> >we'll
> >send them to someone else, who will send them to someone else, and so
> >on
> >and so on.... it took a lot of time, writing a lot of letters, making
> >a
> >lot of phone calls, spending a lot of money to travel a lot of miles
> >to
> >meet folks who didn't show up (if they ever existed!) when they said
> >they
> >would before I figured that one out.
> > I'm not sure who the two or three guys are though. One of
> >these days I am
> >gonna come up with some really great trade goods to bribe Hawk or John
> >Kramer into telling me-pretty sure one or the other of them would have
> >some
> >clues.
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Subject: MtMan-List: AMM Tomahawk & Long Rifle journal
Date: 04 Jul 1999 12:37:43 -0700
List readers,
Have talked to Bill Cunningham (editor of Tomahawk & Long Rifle) and I stand corrected on number of journals published each year, with additional subscriptions of interested parties we may get to be a bi-monthly publication in time. But for now you will receive quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade and early history of the times, the one the American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a year or $35 for two years. Give it a try, you'll blow that much in a couple of stops at 7-11 for junk food.
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade and early history of the times, the one the American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle
3483 Squires
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a year or $35 for two years. You will receive quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov. Give it a try, you'll blow that much in a couple of stops at 7-11 for junk food.
AMM has something over 500 members at present, it began with 5 good men. We are approaching 2000 member numbers issued over the years.
The only way to join is to be sponsored by a party, two bosslopers or one
hiveranno. We take sponsorship very seriously, as we are first a brotherhood.
Until we've been on the ground with a prospect in all seasons, it seldom happens. We are each personally responsible to all the other brothers for the
people we sponsor.
There was a time when most anyone could join by asking and that brought a few
problems. Now sponsorship is the only way to join, it is not problem free.
Sometimes it's difficult to make location & schedules coincide to where you
become well enough acquainted with one or more of us to be invited to join.
In some areas there are very active parties and joining up through one of them
isn't as difficult as happening to know a member and becoming close enough for
them to know you well enough to offer membership, and when necessary
find you a second sponsor. The best way that can happen is to spend time
together on the trail.
Dean Rudy tries to find someone close by to contact when someone requests
information about joining. Sometimes that works out and sometimes it doesn't.
It is a group of individualists some of whom are pretty set in their ways. Some winter alone very nicely.
To give you an idea of how we're spread out; there is an active party about
250 miles East of me, there is one other member within 100 miles North, and one
more another 100 miles on up the road. Its 300 miles South and 500 miles West
to find more. I don't get to see any of them often. Joining is often not something easily planned, those who belong find their way to us sooner or later.
John Kramer
If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. john <kramer@kramerize.com>
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Your lucky that this little guy's mamma didn't show or even some of it's friends, I have talked to the US Forestry folks that work the bears in several of the western National Parks, and that type of encounter I'm told can get real nasty - real fast.
Personally have never had that experience, but Mike Moore, Buck Conner and Ken "Quill" Smith of the Baker Party have; Ken ran into a mother and her baby just a few weeks ago from what I understand at a party camp in South Park, CO. At the Rocky Mountain College held in this area it's not uncommon for such sightings, as is the area of this years Nationals.
Thank you for sharing your story, one that I'm sure will be remembered and told many times in your travels.
Turtle.
________________________
> On Wed, 07 July 1999, terry l landis wrote:
> Saturday morning we got up and packed out all the gear we wouldn't need
> for the last day and took it out. a couple of miles away there was a set
> of teepee rings so we went to investigate them . when we got back it was
> hot . so i went down to the creek to wash pots and bring up some water to
> boil. well i got done washing and i stuck my head in the creek for some
> heat relief. the whole time i was down there i didn't feel right,but i
> couldn't put my finger on why . so when i stood up and shook the water
> offin my head i looked over to the other bank and looking at me over a
> big log was this bear. all i could see at first was the top of it's nose
> , eyes and ears. my first thought was "thats a bear!"then it was "shit
> thats a small bear!" so i reached down -never taking my eyes off of that
> bear- picked up my hat and put it on. i then turned around and got the
> pots of water i had and stood up and looked at that bear. it was sniffing
> around right where i first saw it .i walked half way to the hill and
> turned around still there and no momma yet. i walked up to the bottom of
> the hill and turned around, still there. this hill is about20-30 ft high
> and i got up it in 10 steps and didn't spill a drop. my booshway is
> sitting at the top in the shade and when i got to the top i hollered at
> him "hey dave f%$&in Ephraim" and he said "huh?" and i said a little
> louder " f%$&in Ephraim" he said " what?" and i said " a god damned bear"
> and pointed to the spot . we let the rest of camp know so it could be
> chased off because of the horses and all. and then Dave says yer name is
> Ephraim now. you earned it so now you got it. and then he said "what did
> you learn today?" i said never leave camp with out a loaded gun.
> what a trip for this pilgrim to his first rocky mountain rendezvous.
> that bear was down where dirty shirt was camped the day before . stood
> about 4ft tall and was the most beautiful shade of copper/ blonde.
> shining times i shall never forget. in those rocky mountains my sense of
> brotherhood was born.
> YMHS,
> " Ephraim"
> Terry Landis
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Subject: MtMan-List: Weather - this time of the year.
Date: 08 Jul 1999 11:05:25 -0700
Hello Camp
Just got off the phone with old friend Peter Gobel of "Goose Bay Workshops", seems he has had bad luck again in VA. He had his house "nailed" by a thunder strom a few years ago, did much damage. On July 3rd of this year his shop had the same experience, blow a 2' hole in the roof, split the back of the building, knocked bricks out of the fireplace and fried most of the electrical equipment. While we were talking the insurance people showed up, will let you know the results later.
While thinking of Peter's problem, we should think about bad weather when out and about doing our historical events, this could be seriuos if in the wrong place at the right time.
The members of this list may enjoy what the weather brought to our forefathers living in St. Louis and surrounding area at the time of the Fur Trade.
BAD WEATHER
ôSuddenly the weather turns bad! Thundershowers, lighting, the sun is
blotted out! And there is nothing we can do to warn or prevent this act of mother nature.ö These headlines appeared in the St. Louis Messenger on July
27,1837.
Then the article goes on about, ôthe terrible heat wave and drought of
1833-1834 and how the earth was parched, creeks turned into dry rock beds and crops burned in the fields. During the drought the temperature hovered near 100-degrees for the entire growing season and questioned how some families made it with available food supplies! ö
This was of coarse, extreme weather seldom seen in the Illinois country, but the threat of changes like this and an earlier period in 1816 had people talking of building food supplies like natures animals do every year. The start of storing grain and other field products was born.
Lets get back to the 1816 weather change, reported in HarperÆs Magazine, of that following year, ô Both January and February of 1816 were warm and springlike, so much so that settlers let their fireplaces die. The cold started in March, with each day windy and blustery. Despite the weather, spring crops were planted, with vegetation well under way by April when unusual cold moved in. Snow or sleet fell for 17 different days in May, killing the fruit trees. June saw frost and snow for all but 3 days, it lasted through July.
August was worse, with ice coating the fields, vegetation was gone, wildlife had moved to distant lands and panic felled upon the people.ö This strange change in the weather was caused by a volanco thousands of miles away, that sent so much ash into the heavens it changed lives around the world and was not found out until a few years later.
(Several others have written of this unusual condition in North America in later years, Sunshine and Life magazines did several articles in the early 1900Æs.)
The oldtimers had several weather signs they used, ôwhen cows lie down in the pasture - expect rainö, ôspiderwebs on the morning grass with dew - expect rainö, ôif birds build their nests close to the trunk - expect a rainy summer - if nests are built low - expect high windsö or ôfrogs croaking in early spring - expect rainö.
Ben Franklin had several similar sayings, as did Thomas Jefferson both interested in growing edibles. These pioneers, as others that followed had weather saying for each cloud formation, wind from different compass points or anything of unsual conditions.
In 1839 the Messenger reported, ô WeÆre predicting the weather more
accurately than in the past, but its not harnessed and earthquakes,
hurricanes and tornado could happen at anytime.ö
Dwelling on such predictions, was considered in bad taste, it could raise our blood level far too high!
With the changes in the weather, in the same area in the last few years, things havenÆt improved that much with some of the experts reportings!
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MtMan-List - Joining the AMM
Date: 08 Jul 1999 16:26:14 -0700
Hawk,
I believe that Bill Cunningham, Buck Conner and others in the AMM are pushing the "Tomahawk & Long Rifle" journal for interested parties to learn about this group, their values, etc.
Something that was available but not advertised, Buck told me they would someday like to see them on the news-stand and advertised in other magazines. This would be a good starting point.
Turtle.
__________________________________________
> the quite professionals---sometimes its difficult to carry a pilgram thru to acceptance---I like to know the guy inside and outside and know his metal before i ask him it took me about 3 years to get my sponcers to ask me if i wanted to join---nuff said---
>
> YMHOSANT
> =+=
> "Hawk"
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Weather - this time of the year.
Date: 08 Jul 1999 16:29:31 -0700
Poor Gobel,
Pete's wife is expecting a baby just shortley and now this, I'd move out of that location after getting hit two times in three years.
Thanks Buck for the interesting history lesson on weather.
Turtle.
_____________________________
> On Thu, 08 July 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
> Hello Camp
>
> Just got off the phone with old friend Peter Gobel of "Goose Bay Workshops", seems he has had bad luck again in VA. He had his house "nailed" by a thunder strom a few years ago, did much damage. On July 3rd of this year his shop had the same experience, blow a 2' hole in the roof, split the back of the building, knocked bricks out of the fireplace and fried most of the electrical equipment. While we were talking the insurance people showed up, will let you know the results later.
>
> While thinking of Peter's problem, we should think about bad weather when out and about doing our historical events, this could be seriuos if in the wrong place at the right time.
>
> The members of this list may enjoy what the weather brought to our forefathers living in St. Louis and surrounding area at the time of the Fur Trade.
>
> BAD WEATHER
> ôSuddenly the weather turns bad! Thundershowers, lighting, the sun is
> blotted out! And there is nothing we can do to warn or prevent this act of mother nature.ö These headlines appeared in the St. Louis Messenger on July
> 27,1837.
>
> Then the article goes on about, ôthe terrible heat wave and drought of
> 1833-1834 and how the earth was parched, creeks turned into dry rock beds and crops burned in the fields. During the drought the temperature hovered near 100-degrees for the entire growing season and questioned how some families made it with available food supplies! ö
>
> This was of coarse, extreme weather seldom seen in the Illinois country, but the threat of changes like this and an earlier period in 1816 had people talking of building food supplies like natures animals do every year. The start of storing grain and other field products was born.
>
> Lets get back to the 1816 weather change, reported in HarperÆs Magazine, of that following year, ô Both January and February of 1816 were warm and springlike, so much so that settlers let their fireplaces die. The cold started in March, with each day windy and blustery. Despite the weather, spring crops were planted, with vegetation well under way by April when unusual cold moved in. Snow or sleet fell for 17 different days in May, killing the fruit trees. June saw frost and snow for all but 3 days, it lasted through July.
> August was worse, with ice coating the fields, vegetation was gone, wildlife had moved to distant lands and panic felled upon the people.ö This strange change in the weather was caused by a volanco thousands of miles away, that sent so much ash into the heavens it changed lives around the world and was not found out until a few years later.
>
> (Several others have written of this unusual condition in North America in later years, Sunshine and Life magazines did several articles in the early 1900Æs.)
>
> The oldtimers had several weather signs they used, ôwhen cows lie down in the pasture - expect rainö, ôspiderwebs on the morning grass with dew - expect rainö, ôif birds build their nests close to the trunk - expect a rainy summer - if nests are built low - expect high windsö or ôfrogs croaking in early spring - expect rainö.
>
> Ben Franklin had several similar sayings, as did Thomas Jefferson both interested in growing edibles. These pioneers, as others that followed had weather saying for each cloud formation, wind from different compass points or anything of unsual conditions.
>
> In 1839 the Messenger reported, ô WeÆre predicting the weather more
> accurately than in the past, but its not harnessed and earthquakes,
> hurricanes and tornado could happen at anytime.ö
>
> Dwelling on such predictions, was considered in bad taste, it could raise our blood level far too high!
>
> With the changes in the weather, in the same area in the last few years, things havenÆt improved that much with some of the experts reportings!
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MtMan-List - Joining the AMM
Date: 09 Jul 1999 16:23:03 -0700
We had the same problem for years with the Colorado State Muzzle Loading Association, I was editor and we did bi-monthly publications, one member worked for a big company and would do the printing at night on the "qt" and I would pay for the mailing of up to 1000 bulk rate mailings. Then wait until we had our yearly "State Shoot" to collect the owed funds, the next two issues where covered then back to the old game plan - it took 3-4 years of under the table publishing before we got on our feet.
Granted additional sales in over the counter and subscriptions, along with paid advertising would be of great help. Several that I have talked to are interested in advertising if the journal is available to the public - thats good business for everyone.
> in the early stages of the publication I remember when the guy that > was publishing it didnt have enough money to pay theprinting and
> postage to ship it and would send notes to the brothers requesting > donations in order to keep it afloat---and they have done a hell of > a fine job ---always have good info glad to see that it is going
> out to others that are not members--this additional number will
> will help with the costs of printing and publication.
> "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtman-List: Black Bear Confrontation
Date: 11 Jul 1999 09:40:47 -0700
Lanney,
I was talking to some old friends in northern Colorado, and they are having the same problem with cougars coming into building developements, small farms, etc. Then you go a hundred miles south and the same story is happening there but with the black bear. Was also told the mule deer seem to be having problems for the last couple of years.
We had similar problems like this in this area around State College, PA a dozen years ago with cats, bears and white tails, wonder if this is a cycle thing - like with rabbits and squirrels !!
Turtle.
___________________________________________
> On Fri, 09 July 1999, "Ratcliff" wrote:
>
> The encounter with that bear probably aged that fellow plumb to social security age. Jee-Zus!!
> Cougars are making a comeback where they have been absent for decades. A friend of mine shot a big one in Bosque county, Texas about 4 years ago. Bosque county is only two counties south of Ft Worth and is the adjacent county to mine. The cat was taken maybe 60 miles southwest of a metropolitian area of 4 million. A medium sized cougar (presumably a released or escaped pet) was captured in the alley about two blocks from my house about 5 years ago. The neighbors said that they couldn't kick their dogs out of the house at night for weeks before the dog pound guys caught it. Above and beyond the call of duty if you ask me.
> However, the most dangereous critters in most woods are the ones that walk on two legs. Be careful...always.
> YMOS
> Lanney Ratcliff
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mtman-List: Black Bear Confrontation
Date: 11 Jul 1999 15:35:17 -0400
turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> Lanney,
> I was talking to some old friends in northern Colorado, and they are having the same problem with cougars coming into building developements, small farms, etc. Then you go a hundred miles south and the same story is happening there but with the black bear. Was also told the mule deer seem to be having problems for the last couple of years.
>
> We had similar problems like this in this area around State College, PA a dozen years ago with cats, bears and white tails, wonder if this is a cycle thing - like with rabbits and squirrels !!
Here, it's 'yotes! They're getting more bold, and kill and drag off pets out of
yards. The most damage is done with the white tail, as they kill a LOT of fawns
soon after birth.
Fred
--
"Slicker 'n Willie Lube".......and that's doin some!
Go with the straight sleeve, remember in cold weather you may have several shirts on and you'll need to have room to move around without tearing out seams. In warm weather when working or on extended walks you will sweat and the tapered sleeve will stick to your under garment and again tear seams.
If you look at any of the photo's of old clothes, a large percentage of them are loose fitting, leaving room for additional clothing and breathing room. Most leather garments that fit snug, when wet stick real good to under clothing or just your skin - loose fitting ones are easier to live with and seem to last longer with less seam stress.
Later
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party/Colorado Territory
> On Tue, 13 July 1999, "Henry B. Crawford" wrote:
>
> Friends,
>
> I am making an elkskin/deerskin hunting frock using the Eagle's View Caped
> Woodsman's frock pattern (no. 92).
>
> I have many questions, but one in particular regarding sleeves. I think I
> figured it out that the pattern offers a choice of sleeves, the tapered one
> and the straight one. The cutout pattern in the leather instructions call
> for the tapered one, but they seem very small. I wrapped the sleeve
> pattern around my arm and thought it was pretty narrow. Is there any
> problem using the straight sleeve instead? I haven't cut any leather yet,
> not till I get this pattern figured out.
>
> Eagle's view patterns are supposed to be simple, but the directions leave
> much to be desired. What's missing is a step by step process of putting
> the thing together. Do they assume too much? Has anyone had experience
> with this particular pattern and could lend me assistance?
> TIA
>
> Cheers,
> HBC
>
> ****************************************
> Henry B. Crawford Box 43191
> Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University
> mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Lubbock, TX 79409-3191
> 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136
> Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
> ****** Living History . . . Because It's There ******
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Ephraim double fruitfulness ("for God had made him fruitful in the land
of his affliction"). The second son of Joseph, born in Egypt (Gen.
41:52; 46:20). The first incident recorded regarding him is his being
placed, along with his brother Manasseh, before their grandfather,
Jacob, that he might bless them (48:10; comp. 27:1). The intention of
Joseph was that the right hand of the aged patriarch should be placed on
the head of the elder of the two; but Jacob set Ephraim the younger before his brother, "guiding his hands wittingly." Before Joseph's death, Ephraim's family had reached the third generation (Gen. 50:23).
> There are a bunch of folks here with mixed backgrounds all right. Grizz, Aligator, Snapping Turtle....various beasts. Even the lower forms are mixed up as well. There is a snake here that is found nowhere else......the very dangerous and elusive Copperback Rattle Moccasin.
> Lanney Ratcliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Miles <deforge1@wesnet.com>
> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 7:02 AM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: knives and files
>
>
> > Capt.
> > That was truely an inspirin' tale, it was. And true it had to be. And if it
> > weren't so early here, I would open that flask you made me and take a sip to it. I
> > was pondering on the tale and was wondering iffen mebby the not so distant kin of
> > those two may have wandered theyselves down Texas way... Because I can think of a
> > hairylegged Mtn Man there that would pass as kin...Mebby I'll start callin' him
> > Ursala...<G>
> > D
> >
> > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> > Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
> > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
> >
> >
> >
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> Ephraim double fruitfulness ("for God had made him fruitful in the land
> of his affliction"). The second son of Joseph, born in Egypt (Gen.
> 41:52; 46:20). The first incident recorded regarding him is his being
> placed, along with his brother Manasseh, before their grandfather,
> Jacob, that he might bless them (48:10; comp. 27:1). The intention of
> Joseph was that the right hand of the aged patriarch should be placed on
> the head of the elder of the two; but Jacob set Ephraim the younger before his brother, "guiding his hands wittingly." Before Joseph's death, Ephraim's family had reached the third generation (Gen. 50:23).
When I met you on the Interstate outside of Denver and delievered your straight razor, strp, etc. never gave it a thought about a few instructions or a good field medical kit, sorry.
Here's a few tips that may help if not already tried.
Good luck,
YF&B
Buck
SHAVING TIPS:
MAKE SURE YOUR SHAVING AREA HAS BEEN THOUROUGHLY MASSAGED WITH HOT WATER APPLY SHAVING SOAP OR SHAVE GEL ONTO THE SHAVING AREA - USE A DECENT BLADE AND STROP IT ON A REGULAR BASIS.
SHAVE WITH THE GROWTH OF THE HAIR--ONLY GO AGAINST THE GRAIN AT THE END OF THE SHAVE, AND ONLY THEN IF YOU HAVE TO. (SHAVING AGAINST THE GRAIN OF HAIR GROWTH IS THE MAIN CAUSE OF RAZOR BURN, NICKS AND IRRITATION). SOMETIMES ONE MUST REPEAT STROKES TO AN AREA OR USE SHORT STROKES AND RINSE THE BLADE OFTEN IN HOT WATER.
SHAVE IN A DOWNWARD DIRECTION
DO NOT PRESS HARD ON THE SHAVE AREA WITH THE BLADE.
RINSE THE SHAVEN AREA WITH COOLER WATER AND APPLY AN AFTER SHAVE COLOGNE IMMEDIATELY AFTER SHAVING.
SHAVING GEL
Ther are several shaving gel's available that have a unique pH balanced, non-lathering formula that lessens razor irritation, while conditioning the skin. Shaving Gel helps your beard stand up for a closer, painless shave. Used daily, the special ingredients soothe the skin, and over time will lessen lines and repair damaged skin.
> I recently bought a fine straight razor and a high quality strop from Buck Connor and at the tender age of 52 I am learning how to shave with the thing. So far the results are satisfactory and the two cuts have not required the paramedics but I would appreciate any tips and suggestions regarding shaving with a straight razor. Also, I would appreciate guidance regarding sharpening and stroping the blade. Do you apply anything to the strop? You know....information.
>
> Now, it isn't often that you will get a Texan to admit to any deficit in his knowledge of all things, much less be invited to teach one something, so jump in there with your expertise and help me out here.
>
> By the way, the razor is flat georgeous...ebony wood handle and a Gerjman solingen blade....worth every nickle of Buck's price.
>
> YMOS
>
> Lanney Ratcliff
>
> ps: Ain't this a better subject than some that we have seen lately?
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> You are almost right, Snakeshot. Gauge is determined by the number of round, bore diameter LEAD balls required to weight a pound. 20 gauge = 20 round lead balls to the pound....about .62 caliber. Caliber is the diameter of the bore expressed in 1/100's of an inch. 50 caliber = .5 inch.....that is 50/100's inch or one half inch, Denise.
> Lanney Ratcliff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bishnow <bishnows@swbell.net>
> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 5:07 PM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal
>
> > Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com wrote:
> > >
> > > It's the age old question. Probably been discussed here before. What's the
> > > similarity between gauge and calibre? Is a 20 gauge the same as a .54?
> > .58 calibre is 20 gauge. If I am wrong about this please someone
> > correct me. But, guage is the measure of the number of steel balls
> > that diameter that it takes to make 1 pound. 20 gauge would take
> > 20 steel balls .58 dia. to make one pound. this may not be true
> > any more but I read it somewhere once.
> >
> > Snakeshot
> >
I don't know what I was thinking. After I read my own post
I remembered that was why I put .62 balls in my 20ga.
Boys, with water ways in the lower 48 in our time, (now) most of them are poor for making any distance on without having to portage every once and awhile.
Have followed the L&C foot steps for a long period of time. Have done everything but the Columbia River in crossing this land, one 28 day trip from Ft. Morgan CO to Ft. deChartre IL (1260 miles on the river) showed us just how many portages are now needed. On the Platte alone one can figure at least one to two portages of a few 100 yards to a mile or so depending on the irrigation project encountered, a problem not experienced until this century, what will the next one hold !
You mentioning "navagable", hell we have seen the Platte and the Missouri at this point in early and late summer, anymore passable water is not a given. Have some great pictures of dragging a 20 foot canoe with a 600 lb. payload in a few inches of water on both rivers. We have walked and pulled canoes for miles in trying to get to St. Louis with prime plews.
> every year you can navigate all 3 of them with a canoe. If its navagable it
> is a useful route. Tell me this,why did the trading companies waste so
> much money on large trade canoes to get from Quebec to Grand Portage if they
The condition of modern man does very poorly at carrying large loads any distance, our life styles have made us take a back seat to the abilities of such tasks as our forefathers, most folks today couldn't pickup their own body weight - no less 200-300 lb. loads as we read about.
> I may have to find my way to northern WI and see just how far you can walk
> at a fast pace with two ninety pound packs on your back.
I can completely understand what both of you are saying and really don't know how to have you two settle your points of view, other than maybe just moving on to another subject.
Take care
YF&B
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party/Colorado Territory
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
On the Platte alone one can figure at least one to two portages "PER DAY".
sorry for missing that.
Buck
> On Wed, 21 July 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> Boys, with water ways in the lower 48 in our time, (now) most of them are poor for making any distance on without having to portage every once and awhile.
>
> Have followed the L&C foot steps for a long period of time. Have done everything but the Columbia River in crossing this land, one 28 day trip from Ft. Morgan CO to Ft. deChartre IL (1260 miles on the river) showed us just how many portages are now needed. On the Platte alone one can figure at least one to two portages of a few 100 yards to a mile or so depending on the irrigation project encountered, a problem not experienced until this century, what will the next one hold !
>
> You mentioning "navagable", hell we have seen the Platte and the Missouri at this point in early and late summer, anymore passable water is not a given. Have some great pictures of dragging a 20 foot canoe with a 600 lb. payload in a few inches of water on both rivers. We have walked and pulled canoes for miles in trying to get to St. Louis with prime plews.
>
> > every year you can navigate all 3 of them with a canoe. If its navagable it
> > is a useful route. Tell me this,why did the trading companies waste so
> > much money on large trade canoes to get from Quebec to Grand Portage if they
>
> The condition of modern man does very poorly at carrying large loads any distance, our life styles have made us take a back seat to the abilities of such tasks as our forefathers, most folks today couldn't pickup their own body weight - no less 200-300 lb. loads as we read about.
>
> > I may have to find my way to northern WI and see just how far you can walk
> > at a fast pace with two ninety pound packs on your back.
>
> I can completely understand what both of you are saying and really don't know how to have you two settle your points of view, other than maybe just moving on to another subject.
>
> Take care
> YF&B
> Buck Conner
> AMM Jim Baker Party/Colorado Territory
>
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
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Thanks bud, I looked on Clark & Sons website, found the shaving stuff and now I'm in trouble; ordered all the goodies - straight razor, after shave, badger brush, soap, strop and the brass shaving mug. If I cut myself - this will please the little woman, if I don't - she may cut me. This looks like a no win deal !
Turtle
> On Wed, 21 July 1999, "Ratcliff" wrote:
>
> THIS I have printed and saved to several files. It is the information I needed. Thanks, Buck. I hope you sell a pile of these razors.......refer 'em to me if you like.
> YMOS
> Lanney
> > -Lanney,
> >
> > As promised here's more information, in process of doing an article on shaving and equipage for the T&LR journal.
Sounds like you two have a lot in common, I remember reading in "Canoe" magazine about the "Colorado Five" making the 1260 river mile trip (one way) and several other articles about them doing other long trips in other magazines, all period. Don't know about the Mississippi and that traffic, bridges and other stuff in the water while in a canoe today. Don't know if this group is still around or if they have done any big lakes like you mentioned.
One of that group, Bill Jones told me the average age on the long trip was 50, and they had a great time, Buck had just had his back fused a year before and still went, he's lucky it held together - understand it went and had to have a steel pin a year or so later. Does anyone know if they still do these trips or not anymore, Buck you out there.
Turtle.
> Buck,
> Sorry to put you and the rest of the good folks on the list through our ...
> faaailure...tocommunicate.
> I 've read enough first hand accounts to want to do more than talk about the
> water routes these early traders used. I to have traveled literally
> thousands of miles over the very routes they used. Talk about dragging
> canoes through shallow water,I know what thats like!, my canoe can carry
> 1100# never had it quite that heavy, but close on a few trips, heading down
> a river was always a real adventure (going up was a pain in the arse).
> Sometimes you never knew what you where going to encounter. Some of my most
> memorable trips where on Superior itself. Beautiful country but very
> unforgiving to those who aren't careful and prepared. Sometimes that isn't
> enough. The main point I was trying to make to Kestrel took me a few years
> of traveling these water routes to discover, and it's the simple fact that
> the water route with the fewest portages does not make nessacarily the best
> route. Example: There was an American Fur Company post on lake Le Vieux
> Desert to the north of me. This was an ideal location for a post
> (the closest town is called Watersmeet, they really do here) because 2 miles
> to the north the Ontanogan River flowed into Superior,The Wisconsin River
> flowed out of the lake it being its headwaters, to the east was the Brule R
> which flowed into the Menominee which then went to Lake Michigan. For laughs
> I decided to try to find the routes the traders took from La Vieux Desert to
> Lake Superior.Logic told me it was the Ontanogan which was only a 60 mile
> trip with no portages in high water. I was wrong. The routes that where
> primarily used where MOSTLY portages. One of the routes I eventually found
> on an original map and it started off with a portage which had 120 "pauses"!
> I'm not sure how far a pause is, but it was a looong way to portage. Why did
> they choose routes that had so many portages? I believe it may have been
> because many times they did not have extremely large loads to transport,
> after all we aren't talking about the Athabascan country. Compared to that
> these posts in WI where relatively close to the Forts that resupplyed them,
> maybe they where supplied several times a season. I also think other factors
> as simple as the bugs being bad(or other very mundane reasons) effected the
> use of certain routes.If EVERY factor was equal obviously the quickest route
> that required the least amount of work was used, but until a person attempts
> to follow in the footsteps of these early travelers they have NO idea the
> factors that are involved. Even after reading about it. Like the remark you
> made about the condition of modern man, "our life styles have made us take a
> back seat to the abilities of such tasks as our forefathers" that was well
> said but I have lots of fun and plenty of great memories trying to emulate
> them as I am sure you also do!
>
> Take care,
> Tony Clark
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Thank you for the kind remarks, "it did shine" and we will remember it for the rest of our lives, the best part was everyone we met was positive - not a negative person, different than what we all see on the "news" - all negative carp.
Turtle mentioned "Canoe" magazine, we picked up a reporter from that publication in his fancy modern canoe clothes, made him put on what we had on - breeches, clouts and leggings, etc. Only let him take his small camera and note pad, he wanted his energy and junk food - but left them in his car. After a 150 miles with us he wasn't sure who's gear was better and wrote that in his article - that's cool.
> Unfortunately I never had any company except for my dog, until I met my wife that
> is (she is one in a million, even though she don't like fast water. My dog didn't either
> for that matter.)
A couple of people makes life much easier in many cases, that's great your lady goes along.
> 3) I am researching a book that deals with the routes the native Americans
> have been using to transport goods since approx. 3000 B.C.
> Ironically, since many of the fur trade routes are the same routes native
> americans used, I begin looking for these ancient prehistoric routes on the
> fur trade routes.
It will be interesting to read your findings on lost ancient routes, you may want to consider a GPS unit for locations, a metal detector for possible camp sites.
> reminds me of the fact that the voyageurs where normally quite short and
> subsequently had few back problems.
We all got them (backs) and like mentioned before, modern man can't handle like loads of our forefathers, we just flat got soft after a dozen or more decades.
Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: The Filibuster Is * On *
Date: 23 Jul 1999 15:49:44 -0700
Friends,
Our low life elected officals are at it again, sign up for this mail list and give them more responses than they could ever dream of on "Gun Control". Smith is standing up for us, let him know your pleased, and screw Lott into the ground with complaints.
Either we fight to keep what we got, or in a few years we sit around and cry about what we use to have, your choice !
Later
Buck Conner
Colorado Territory
____________________________________
Senator Smith Throws Down the Gauntlet!
-- Stands up to Trent Lott by forcing filibuster on anti-gun crime
bill
Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org
(Friday, July 23, 1999) -- Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-MS) has set
the Senate wheels in motion for a series of votes to stop Senator
Bob Smith's filibuster on the juvenile crime legislation. The first
vote has been set for Monday, July 26.
So far, Senator Smith (I-NH) has prevented any progress on the
anti-gun crime bill by promising to use the ancient art of
"filibuster." Yesterday, that promise became reality when Smith
objected to a motion by Sen. Lott to move the bill along.
This is truly a David v. Goliath stand-off. The Senate leadership,
led by the Majority Leader, is trying to roll Senator Smith and
bring his delaying tactics to an end.
Of course, Senator Lott must first clear at least six parliamentary
"hurdles" that have been erected by Senator Smith.
The key vote will occur on Wednesday or Thursday when the Senate
will determine whether the Gore/Lautenberg gun control crime bill
(S. 254) will move forward.
That vote will be on an effort to shut down debate on Sen. Smith's
filibuster-- known in Washington as "invoking cloture" on the
filibuster-- and will decide whether Sen. Lott can substitute the
virulently anti-gun crime bill (S. 254) in lieu of the crime bill
that was passed by the House.
Eventually, Senator Lott wants to send the crime legislation to a
House-Senate conference committee to iron out the differences
between the two bills. But that can only come after he's cleared
the Smith "hurdles"-- a process that should take several days. Lott
can clear each one of these hurdles with a 60-vote majority in the
Senate.
If that happens, President Clinton will be one step closer to
signing a crime bill that is replete with gun bans and gun owner
registration.
But if our side gets 41 votes at any point along the way, then
Senate rules will allow Smith to continue filibustering the bill--
which could entail his standing on the Senate floor and reading long
passages from a library of pro-gun literature. You may want to tape
this from C-Span and label it "Second Amendment books on tape by
Senator Smith."
Smith is willing to do that. He is committed to doing whatever it
takes to defend the 2nd Amendment. But he needs 40 other Senators
to stand with him!
Again, Monday's vote will begin a whole series of votes on this
issue. Each one is slightly different, and GOA will do its best to
keep you informed as to what is coming down the pike.
Until then, please start asking your Senators to support the Smith
filibuster.
Senator Smith is without question THE defender of 2nd Amendment
rights in the Senate. Tell your Senator that you would like him or
her to follow Smith's lead on the upcoming series of votes.
CONTACT INFORMATION:
* Toll-free at 1-888-449-3511. [Please be patient when calling
this number; sometimes it rings for quite a while. But they will
answer!]
* The regular Capitol Switchboard number is 202-224-3121.
* Fax and e-mail contact info is available at
http://www.gunowners.org/s106th.htm on the GOA webpage.
P.S. There has been quite a bit of confusion in the media as to
what is actually transpiring on Monday. Some in the media are
reporting that Monday's vote is about the appointment of Senate
conferees. This is incorrect. Technically speaking, the purpose
for Monday's vote in the Senate is to bring up the House crime bill
(H.R. 1501) for debate. As stated above, Lott eventually wants to
appoint conferees, but that will only happen if he can overcome
every Smith filibuster.
**************
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you use http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/goa.htm to enter their online
store.
**************
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either the subject or the body. To unsubscribe, reply to any alert
> Thats what it's all about, in my opinion. In the end the good
> memories (or bad for some) is mostly all a person has.
Isn't that the truth; my Dad use to tell me "you come into this world - bald, no teeth and messing your drawer's, when you leave your in about the same condition." I'd kind of like to keep my teeth, still like to eat.
> I don't use the GPS for the routes, however I do use it to find my
> way back to locations where these prehistoric americans had mined
> for copper. These..........
> The use of copper for tools and ornamentation in WI and the U.P.
> of Michigan may be the oldest use of metals by people anywhere in the world..........
I find this very interesting findings, such places as these mined areas and what they hold.
> I would like to learn more about your 1200 mile river trip. Would
> that be possible,and where could I find that article from 'Canoe'
> magazine? Any idea?
As for "Canoe" magazine it been out of print according to the gal I talked to at there office, she said that article made that issue one of there best sellers. I can make a copy if anyone ones to read it, send a self address-stamped, legal size envelope to my business address and I'll send you a copy of that article on that trip published in Canoe magazine.
Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
P.O.Box 28168,
13111 W. Alameda Pkwy #16,
Lakewood, CO 80228
I have a journal of this 1260 mile trip up on my computer if everyone would like it sent out ! Covers the total experience, period food, clothing, camp and equipage.
Let's hear about these copper mines Tony and more on the camps and have you found anything of interest.
The biggest problem is getting any group of any size to ban together in this state or any other in today's society.
We have become a "what's in it for me" group of people, like it or not. I've played this game many many times with the Colorado State Muzzle Loading Assoc. We have mentioned them before on this list, Joe it's an up hill battle that is never played on even ground. Our elected officals hold the cards, deal the cards and call the winner (which will always be in their favor).
I know what you mean, and it sounds wonderful to ban all sportsman together, tried that a few agree, and the rest just go on their merry way with their heads in the sand or somewhere else. I've tried anything from meetings with free cook-outs to just ass-ripping articles, your talking to the masses with deaf ears.
This has been over a 25-30 year period of telling them how their "rights" are going out the window by the "do-gooders", now after that long a period we're starting to see the bottom line.
That's why I put the "Gun Owners of America" on this list, I reply to the various parties on these alerts, surprising as it may be 90% of these elected officals will respond to your e-mails if you give them you address. Of course I'm probably on every "Sh... List" they pass around among themselves. I also write to the ones that are standing up against gun control, like Smith, and tell them what a great job they are doing and will be remembered at election.
It takes a little of your time to do this, but if we don't - you may want to take lots of pictures of your weapons, traps ,etc. because that may be all you have to look at down the road. This applies in the USA now, not just in Colorado folks, its time to wake up and be heard, hope its not to late ???
Haven't belonged for 15 years, I dropped out when moving to the city and selling all the trapping equipment, was in when Major B. was one of the main folks in Ft. Collins.
> I agree, but we can't roll over and play dead. Are you a member of the Colo.
> Trappers Assn., and or the National Trappers Assn.?
I know of several state trappers that handle such things in the metro areas and they don't trap they use a dart gun.
> wondered how long it would take them to try to find a trapper.
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I have tried without much success, working by myself, in trying to learn "sign lanuage". Got the books by Tomkins and Clark, tried all the suggestions with very little success. Talked to several members in my local party, seems some were having the same problems. Work always messes you up in getting together.
Then here comes the tape that members where talking about (the one that's no longer available) and the new tape "Indian Sign Language" with Larry Pendleton. I figured I have all the other available sources, so I'll see what the tape is like, wasn't sure if I knew Larry or not.
Talked to several AMM members on the e-mail list and was told this tape would help, I wouldn't bet on that, Dennis Miles can tell you teaching the Amish doesn't work really well.
To make a long story short, I ended up buying several of these tapes for Clark & Sons Mercantile, thinking if I can't learn this - sell them through there and forget "sign". Well I received the "Indian Sign" tapes, sat down and within a few minutes I reconized Larry, we met a while back. I have watched this tape several times, and believe it or not - I think I can learn this stuff, and that's amazing as hard as I have tried in the past. Larry does an excellent job in clearly explaining each word and does it several times, you really "shine" and make it easy.
I think enough of this tape, that as soon as my web master gets back from a vacation in Europe (think I'm in the wrong line of work) she will have it (picture and inform) on the front page of Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. web site.
Larry you have made my day, I thank you and am sure many more will do the same. Better get ready for Vol #2, with more "sign" bud, us dumbies need all the help we can get.
Later
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party/Colorado Territory
PS
Don't forget to talk up the T&LR.
__________________________________________________Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a year or $35 for two years. You will receive quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
Subject: MtMan-List: Battle Lines Forming in the Senate
Date: 27 Jul 1999 09:49:00 -0700
Here is the fight that's coming down, don't delete this message; being interested or involved in reenactments of history, you have seen what has gone down in the past, and what maybe our furture. Re-read this e-mail and then call or e-mail your elected offical and voice your opinion about these new proposed gun laws.
Act now, or as mentioned before: "take pictures of your weapons, as that's all you'll have after they are collected".
Later
Buck Conner
_________________________________________________
Battle Lines Forming in the Senate
-- Senator Bob Smith forces colleagues to decide between God or gun control
Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org
(Tuesday, July 27, 1999) -- What does one do when outgunned by the other side? Call for Divine help of course.
Senator Bob Smith (I-NH), who is fighting a lonely battle in the U.S. Senate, has done just that.
It still appears that on this Wednesday, Smith will force a showdown between two different approaches to fighting crime: one that emphasizes the role of the Ten Commandments and prayer (the House crime bill) and one that imposes even more gun control (the Gore-Lautenberg version passed in the Senate).
Smith's parliamentary maneuvering resulted in yesterday's expected vote being cancelled-- thus leaving the ultimate showdown for later this week.
On Wednesday, the Senate will vote on whether to shut down Smith's filibuster of a "substitute" embodying the language of the Senate anti-gun crime bill (S. 254).
If Senators Trent Lott (R-MS) and Orrin Hatch (R-UT) are successful in overcoming Smith, then they will replace the House crime bill (H.R. 1501) with the anti-gun Senate version.
IT IS CRITICAL THAT SENATORS VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE SMITH FILIBUSTER.
The Smith filibuster is the ONLY thing keeping the anti-gun S. 254 language from advancing in the legislative process.
Senators Lott and Hatch want to take the gun control language in S. 254 and substitute it into the House crime bill. The House bill contains language reaffirming the role of the Ten Commandments and prayer in public schools; prohibiting the release of dangerous criminals solely on the basis of prison conditions; and recognizing the role of media violence, the impact of certain music, and lack of school discipline in tragedies such as the one which occurred at Columbine.
The House bill is not a perfect bill, but one can see the
interesting dilemma that Senator Smith has put his Senate colleagues into.
As Smith is framing it, Senators must decide between choosing morality (in the House bill) or choosing a Senate bill that contains the Al Gore/Frank Lautenberg gun control provisions-- including one that would almost certainly put gun shows out of business (see Talking Point #4 below).
As far as Second Amendment rights are concerned, the ultimate yardstick is to STOP S. 254 AND THE "SENATE SUBSTITUTE" THAT EMBODIES IT!!! Thus, the message gun owners can relay to their Senators is that for every crime bill vote that arises in the next couple of weeks, they should always vote against the anti-gun Senate language.
HERE'S WHAT TO DO:
* Please call both of your Senators toll-free at 1-888-449-3511. You can also call them using the Capitol Switchboard at 202-224-3121. Ask your Senators to vote in support of the Smith filibuster and to vote AGAINST the S. 254 language at every point along the way.
* Please forward this message to as many interested people as you can.
* Many of you have already sent numerous faxes and e-mails to your Senators, and we thank you for that. But at this late date, it is imperative that we flood their offices with phone calls.
TALKING POINTS (Gun control in the Senate bill, S. 254):
1. Young adult gun ban. This ban, introduced by Senator John Ashcroft (R-MO), could severely punish parents who allow their kids to even touch a so-called semi-automatic "assault weapon." While the amendment allows for certain exemptions, there are some imponderable questions which NO senator could answer, but which a parent would have to answer in order to avoid incarceration.
For example: What is a "semiautomatic assault weapon"? The definition, plus exemptions, takes up six pages of fine print in the U.S. Code. While a gun manufacturer will pay handsome salaries to attorneys to decipher such convoluted definitions, it will be considerably harder for a parent to determine which of his family firearms are so-called assault weapons, and suspect under this provision.
2. Extending the ban on moderate-capacity magazines. This
provision, introduced by Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), would ban the importation of any magazine that can hold over 10 rounds-- no matter when the magazine was manufactured.
3. Hatch-Kohl "Lock-up your safety" requirements. Senators Orrin Hatch (R) and Herb Kohl (D) introduced this amendment which forces gun sellers to include trigger locks with every handgun sold.
4. Banning private sales of firearms at gun shows. This amendment offered by Sen. Lautenberg of New Jersey would ban private sales at gun shows-- sales between two PRIVATE individuals-- unless the buyer first submits to a background registration check. Under this provision, even displaying a firearm at a gun show, and subsequently
transferring that gun to a non-dealer (if it is displayed with a
notice that it is for sale), will result in a two-year prison
sentence-- five years for the second violation.
This amendment would also impose a series of restrictions and requirements upon gun show promoters-- requirements that would almost certainly put gun shows out of business. For example, this Lautenberg provision allows gun show promoters to be imprisoned for two years for failure to notify EVERY attendee of his legal requirements. Finally, this provision grants BATF open-ended inspection authority to harass vendors at gun shows, and explicitly gives BATF the right to keep a gun owner registration list for up to 90 days.
**************
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Battle Lines Forming in the Senate
Date: 27 Jul 1999 10:13:32 -0700
For a list and e-mail address for your state senators:
http://www.gunowners.org/s106th.htm
Look under your state for information.
_______________________________________________
> Here is the fight that's coming down, don't delete this message; being interested or involved in reenactments of history, you have seen what has gone down in the past, and what maybe our furture. Re-read this e-mail and then call or e-mail your elected offical and voice your opinion about these new proposed gun laws.
>
> Act now, or as mentioned before: "take pictures of your weapons, as that's all you'll have after they are collected".
> From: Gun Owners of America <goamail@gunowners.org>
>
> Battle Lines Forming in the Senate
> -- Senator Bob Smith forces colleagues to decide between God or gun control
>
> Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert
> 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
> Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
> http://www.gunowners.org
>
> As far as Second Amendment rights are concerned, the ultimate yardstick is to STOP S. 254 AND THE "SENATE SUBSTITUTE" THAT EMBODIES IT!!! Thus, the message gun owners can relay to their Senators is that for every crime bill vote that arises in the next couple of weeks, they should always vote against the anti-gun Senate language.
>
> HERE'S WHAT TO DO:
>
> * Please call both of your Senators toll-free at 1-888-449-3511. You can also call them using the Capitol Switchboard at 202-224-3121. Ask your Senators to vote in support of the Smith filibuster and to vote AGAINST the S. 254 language at every point along the way.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Indian Sign Lanuage" video
Date: 28 Jul 1999 06:59:17 -0700
Folks,
We have just received the new tapes that Larry has just mentioned of : "Indian Sign Language" with Larry Pendleton, cost is $ 24.95 plus postage, at $ 3.25 (not sure on postage yet). Will have on webe site either tonight or tomorrow night, the part no# is CSV-101 for reference.
Check Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
like mentioned information should be put in either tonight or tomorrow night, as soon as web master can get to it.
Thanks
Buck Conner
dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
> On Tue, 27 July 1999, Cherokeoil@aol.com wrote:
>
> I`d be interested in a copy of the tape to. You can get ahold of me off line
> to.
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Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Indian Sign Lanuage" video
Date: 28 Jul 1999 10:48:23 -0700
Buck,
Quess I missed what Larry said about "old" and "new" tapes, and price difference, which do I have coming ?
Thanks
Turtle.
______________________________________________
> On Wed, 28 July 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> We have just received the new tapes that Larry has just mentioned of : "Indian Sign Language" with Larry Pendleton, cost is $ 24.95 plus postage, at $ 3.25 (not sure on postage yet). Will have on web site either tonight or tomorrow night, the part no# is CSV-101 for reference.
>
> Check Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
>
> like mentioned; information should be put in either tonight or tomorrow night, as soon as web master can get to it.
>
> Thanks
> Buck Conner
> dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
>
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Larry said they have changed to a better quality tape, cost to produce and costs in general have raised cost of tape.
The tape sent is the new better quality tape, believe everything has been upgraded per Larry.
Later
Buck
_________________________________________
> On Wed, 28 July 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
>
> Buck,
> Quess I missed what Larry said about "old" and "new" tapes, and price difference, which do I have coming ?
>
> Thanks
> Turtle.
>
> ______________________________________________
> > On Wed, 28 July 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > We have just received the new tapes that Larry has just mentioned of : "Indian Sign Language" with Larry Pendleton, cost is $ 24.95 plus postage, at $ 3.25 (not sure on postage yet). Will have on web site either tonight or tomorrow night, the part no# is CSV-101 for reference.
> >
> > Check Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
> >
> > like mentioned; information should be put in either tonight or tomorrow night, as soon as web master can get to it.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Buck Conner
> > dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
> >
>
>
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
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Subject: MtMan-List: "Indian Sign Language" new version
Date: 28 Jul 1999 16:17:19 -0700
Folks,
We have received the new tapes that Larry has just mentioned: "Indian Sign Language" with Larry Pendleton, cost is $ 24.95 plus postage, at $ 3.25 (not sure on postage yet, but close).
NOW have on web site, the part no# is CSV-101
Check Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
Thanks
Buck Conner
dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
Later,
Buck Conner
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: "Indian Sign Language" new version
Date: 29 Jul 1999 08:10:09 -0700
Buck,
Just checked the information, looks good. Can't wait to see what the tape is like - everyone is talking about the fine job Larry has done on "Indian Sign Language". Heard about it on several of the "lists" I belong to, thanks for letting us know you have it available.
Turtle.
>
> "Indian Sign Language" with Larry Pendleton - video is NOW on web site,
> the part No# is CSV-101
>
> Check Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
>
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: "Indian Sign Language" new version
Date: 29 Jul 1999 14:04:26 -0700
Got my tape this morning in the mail, haven't had time to watch, thanks Buck for the fast service. Oh, thanks for the tip on the free e-mail with US West, seems to work fine.
Concho
> Buck,
> Just checked the information, looks good. Can't wait to see what the tape is like - everyone is talking about the fine job Larry has done on "Indian Sign Language". Heard about it on several of the "lists" I belong to, thanks for letting us know you have it available.
> Turtle.
>
> >
> > "Indian Sign Language" with Larry Pendleton - video is NOW on web site,
> > the part No# is CSV-101
> >
> > Check Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
When did you come back to the States, haven't seen you since the late 80's, early 90's, get tired of the Northwest Territory ?
Haven't seen the name "Concho" for years, soon as I saw it I knew it was the crazy one, what happened - you buying a "sign language" tape, you used to teach it brother !
See your like the rest of us, signing up for free internet e-mail. Let's here from you on some of the stuff talked about, you have a wealth of knowledge on American History after teaching all those years.
Take care.
Turtle.
> Got my tape this morning in the mail, haven't had time to watch, thanks Buck for the fast service. Oh, thanks for the tip on the free e-mail with US West, seems to work fine.
>
> Concho
> D. L. Smith
> Washington, MO.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
Didn't realize Daniel Smith was "DL" or "Concho" when sending him the "sign" tape. I bet the gave him a free rise out of the NW Territory - tar and feathers included. Should be an interesting tale.
I'll call Crosby Brown and warn him that "Concho" is living in the same town, lock up the kids and small animals - only kidding DL.
_______________________________________________
> On Thu, 29 July 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
> DL,
> When did you come back to the States, haven't seen you since the late 80's, early 90's, get tired of the Northwest Territory ?
> Haven't seen the name "Concho" for years, soon as I saw it I knew it was the crazy one, what happened - you buying a "sign language" tape, you used to teach it brother !
> See your like the rest of us, signing up for free internet e-mail. Let's here from you on some of the stuff talked about, you have a wealth of knowledge on American History after teaching all those years.
> Take care.
> Turtle.
>
> > Got my tape this morning in the mail, haven't had time to watch, thanks Buck for the fast service. Oh, thanks for the tip on the free e-mail with US West, seems to work fine.
> >
> > Concho
> > D. L. Smith
> > Washington, MO.
Later,
Buck Conner
dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc.
AMM Jim Baker Party / Colorado Territory
_____________________________________
Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade
and early history of the times, the one the
American Mountain Men read and write:
The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires *
Conklin, MI 49403
ATTN: Jon Link
The subscription for the journal is $20 for a
year or $35 for two years. You will receive
quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,.
_____________________________________
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
After being in the NW for the last 12 years and returning to the lower 48, these two are still the same with their "cute cheap shots".
I paid for my ride Buck, and the tar wasn't that hard to remove either. Turtle are you still as slow as years ago ? I have already talked to Mr. Brown and he gave his best to all, he's working on the Lewis theory not being correct - lots of doc. information.
Thanks guys
"Concho"
Yes, I look forward to having input on this list.
__________________________________________
> On Fri, 30 July 1999, "Buck" wrote:
> Turtle,
> Didn't realize Daniel Smith was "DL" or "Concho" when sending him the "sign" tape. I bet they gave him a free ride out of the NW Territory - tar and feathers included. Should be an interesting tale.
>
> I'll call Crosby Brown and warn him that "Concho" is living in the same town, lock up the kids and small animals - only kidding DL.
> _______________________________________________
>
> > On Thu, 29 July 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote:
> > DL,
> > When did you come back to the States, haven't seen you since the late 80's, early 90's, get tired of the Northwest Territory ?
D. L. Smith
Washington, MO.
Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net
