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hats-digest           Monday, July 19 1999           Volume 02 : Number 143




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:10:51 -0600
From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Stefan Doroschuk gives me the "Black Hat" Award

Hello fellow hatters

Well I just got a letter Back from Stefan Doroschuk (see the email
below). I tried to explain what the bootlegs were (I included my email
to Stefan). As You can see Stefan gave me the "Black Hat" Award :)

By the way Stefan sounds, it seems like he will never allow trading of
Live Recordings.

I will be adding a chat room to my website today (www.holdman.com/mwh)
and I am going to be e-mailing Stefan asking him to join the chat room
this Thursday at 7:00pm EST. I want everybody that can make it to be
there. I will also be asking Stefan if he could ask Ivan to come into
the Chat room also. I don't know if Ivan or Stefan will show up. If they
don't show up, it will still give us a chance to all meet together.

Remember - This Thursday at 7:00pm EST.

This Chat session will work via your Web Browser with JAVA - You will
also me able to access it a normal IRC client if you wish. The
information about the server name and such will be on my website if you
Wish to use Mirc or another standalone IRC Client.


- ------
- -----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Doroschuk [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 7:13 AM
To: Richard Holdman
Subject: Re: Copyright infringement


Whether you made much money or not is irrelevant. Did you ever think
twice that maybe we don't want these floating around? That if we deemed
these to be up to our standards that maybe we would have put them out on
a live album by now? The net result is you have deprived us of our
artistic license and revenue. You certainly never did me or Ivan any
favors by doing this. But I guess that this is what bootlegs are all
about, ripping off artists. I just hope that all of our fans aren't as
"big fans" as you are. Your 48 hours are almost up and mp3s of anything
are bogus, to put them or not on a MWH site for free is my decision not
yours. Try going to Bruce Springsteen's new show and doing the same
thing and you'll see what I mean!
Stefan
PS you have earned yourself a Black Hat. These are awarded to people who
do harm to MWH and are excommunicated from the circle. Forever doomed to
roam the earth wearing a Black Hat and unable to dance if you want to.
Good riddance!


- -=| Message I sent to Stefan |=-

- -----Original Message-----
From:     Richard Holdman
Sent:    Saturday, July 17, 1999 2:55 PM
To:    '[e-mail]'
Subject:    Copyright infringement

:(

Ok - I am sad to see you so Mad Stefan - I thought I was doing a service
to all the MWH fans like myself. A lot of bands encouraging the copying
of Live Recordings among fans. (Pearl Jam and many others). I am sorry
if I have done something wrong.

I am not doing this to make any money. I charged $15 for the Media,
printing, shipping and the time it took to burn (it takes about 40 mins
per CD). As a matter of fact I wish that somebody that did hold the
copyrights to these live recordings would offer them for sale so all the
MWH fans of the world could enjoy them. Maybe you could offer them
through you since you hold the copyrights. You should look into some
sites on the Internet like http://www.mp3.com that offer to sell mp3
files on the web. This way MWH fans could continue to enjoy these
recordings.

I receive many emails from people wanting to know where they can buy MWH
albums and I tell them some good places (like CDNOW.com) - I am sure a
lot of them went out and bought these MWH albums which the Copyright
Owners Make Money from.

Is it ok to post mp3 files of the live concerts on My web page? I don't
see what harm there is in MWH fans trading these live recordings. We
don't trade any songs that you could go out and buy, we support the
artist and we have bought all of their releases that they offer but we
still want more. :)

- -Richard Holdman

P.S. I am glad you know my Name and Address. It reminds me of one of my
favorite songs "I know their Name"


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 10:56:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) BOOTLEGS FOR SALE

> If you are interested for the bootlegs, it's 50$ each, + 80$ of shipping
> and handling, + commision to the Doroschuck corporation.  haahahahaha
>
> Francis

Oh, please can I buy a set???  I'll pay *any price*!  :-)

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:54:19 -0600
From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH Chatroom

Hello.

Well the Chatroom on my website is set up - Http://www.holdman.com/mwh


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:12:39 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Stefan Doroschuk gives me the "Black Hat" Award

Wow! Stephan really is an *ssh*le. I'll never buy anything from him. that is
just way out of line. what a jerk.  Bootlegs increase interest in a group,
just look at what it has done for Phish and the Grateful Dead.  Bootlegs are
about Celebrating artists. oh yeah, I've never bought any of these MWH
bootlegs, but now, if anyone has any interesting ones, let me know what they
are and what is on them and I'll consider some.  And hey, let's face it, Ivan
is Men Without Hats, Stephan is a nobody.  I hearby revoke Stephan's awarding
of the Black Hat to Richard and instead award Stephan a Rotten Soul Award.
hah!

Dan

In a message dated 7/19/99 2:47:59 PM !!!First Boot!!!, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Whether you made much money or not is irrelevant. Did you ever think
 twice that maybe we don't want these floating around? That if we deemed
 these to be up to our standards that maybe we would have put them out on
 a live album by now? The net result is you have deprived us of our
 artistic license and revenue. You certainly never did me or Ivan any
 favors by doing this. But I guess that this is what bootlegs are all
 about, ripping off artists. I just hope that all of our fans aren't as
 "big fans" as you are. Your 48 hours are almost up and mp3s of anything
 are bogus, to put them or not on a MWH site for free is my decision not
 yours. Try going to Bruce Springsteen's new show and doing the same
 thing and you'll see what I mean!
 Stefan
 PS you have earned yourself a Black Hat. These are awarded to people who
 do harm to MWH and are excommunicated from the circle. Forever doomed to
 roam the earth wearing a Black Hat and unable to dance if you want to.
 Good riddance!
  >>


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:23:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: goreal <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Stefan Doroschuk gives me the "Black Hat" Award

just think what you could get for that award on eBay.  "Winner of this
unique item gets a free CDR!"

- --- Richard Holdman <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Hello fellow hatters
>
> Well I just got a letter Back from Stefan Doroschuk (see the email
> below). I tried to explain what the bootlegs were (I included my
> email
> to Stefan). As You can see Stefan gave me the "Black Hat" Award :)
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:24:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Stefan Doroschuk gives me the "Black Hat" Award

Perhaps somebody should send Stefan a copy of the 1997 videotape where
Ivan signs copies of the first 3 CDs with a pen in his hand and a smile
on his face.

I'm outtahere!

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:37:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) I knew Stefan was upset but this is ridiculous!!

CANADIAN TELECOMMUNICATIONS SNAFU: An explosion and fire this morning at
a phone center in downtown Toronto, Canada, cut off phone service and
other communications across the country. Bank machines, cell phones, and
some 911 emergency lines were out of commission, with disruptions from
Halifax on the east coast to Vancouver on the west. The Toronto Stock
Exchange was affected. Authorities told residents of the Toronto area
not to use 911 unless it was a matter of life or death.

http://www.morrock.com


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:38:26 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) FW: Copyright infringement

Wasn't Ivan given some of the bootlegs a couple years ago?  I think its kind
of funny that Stefan is taking exception to this.  He must be afraid that the
band [?] is undoubtedly missing out on literally dozens of dollars of
profit!!!!  You would think that they'd want to do about anything to keep
people interested in MWoH- - they haven't exactly lit up the charts for a
while!!


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:11:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: paul b go <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) List activity

As bad as this all might seem, this is the most active I remember seeing
the list in a year (since the ill-fated reunion concert attempt). Too bad
it takes a negative influence to create some activity among us Hatters.

As an owner of the bootlegs, the t-shirts, and the 2fer I am most
appreciative to everyone involved in bringing these to us, especially, but
not exclusively Richard, Tom, and Laura.  I have used these products
(especially the t-shirts and the bootlegs) to introduce others to the
wonderful world of Men Without Hats, people who otherwise said "Men
Without Hats Greatest Hits? What is that, a CD-single? haha" to people who
will listen to FOE3 or ROY and love it. People say to me "cool shirt" as I
walk the streets or ask "What is that on your shirt?" giving me the
opportunity to let them know of Men Without Hats. And a number of friends
have borrowed my bootlegs to listen to and have added "Collection" or
"Greatest Hats" to their own collections.

I hope Stephen will change his mind, or will at least take a less
adversarial position on the matter. Either way folks... Thanks.

Hatless,

Paul Go
[e-mail]

"The unexamined life is not worth living, and the unlived life is not
worth examining." - Anon.




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 12:55:06 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) The "Black Hat" Award

In a message dated 7/19/99 7:47:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< -----Original Message-----
 From: Stefan Doroschuk [mailto:[e-mail]]
 Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 7:13 AM
 To: Richard Holdman
 Subject: Re: Copyright infringement


 Whether you made much money or not is irrelevant. Did you ever think
 twice that maybe we don't want these floating around? That if we deemed
 these to be up to our standards that maybe we would have put them out on
 a live album by now? The net result is you have deprived us of our
 artistic license and revenue. You certainly never did me or Ivan any
 favors by doing this. But I guess that this is what bootlegs are all
 about, ripping off artists. I just hope that all of our fans aren't as
 "big fans" as you are. Your 48 hours are almost up and mp3s of anything
 are bogus, to put them or not on a MWH site for free is my decision not
 yours. Try going to Bruce Springsteen's new show and doing the same
 thing and you'll see what I mean! >>

Does he really think he is in the same league as Bruce Springsteen?   Perhaps
Michael Jackson? He should pull his own "Black Hat" from over his eyes.  Men
Without Hats is a dead band and I sincerely doubt that even a pitiful
"reunion tour" (hey, even BowWowWow gave it a try) would attract a enough
attention to make it  or a re-release of Safety dance feasible.  He should
realize that "big fans" are a service to the band and keep it from completely
falling into the dustbin of history.  It wasn't until after I'd joined this
list that I found out that they had releases beyond PGTW.   God forbid that a
dozen people remain interested!    His comment that if they wanted to release
them, they would have forgets one small detail- a label to do it.  Oooh, I
can see record companies lining up to lose money on a band that is seen as a
one-hit wonder band embraced by a fickle teen audience which long ago lost
interest.   How did Stefan end up with publishing rights?  What happened to
Ivan, or has he simply moved on (as he was able to get a record deal)?
Stefan should really seek an injunction on this mailing list and insist that
all Men Without Hats discussion be routed through his server so that he can
sell advertising or the "addresses that he has" to spammers and monitor
threats to artistic license. That's it.  I don't care anymore.   I've always
greatly enjoyed the music and probably further idealized it because of an
emotional attachment to my youth of the 80s.  Stefan pricked the bubble- it
wasn't that great and if he is this big of a jerk now, I wouldn't have liked
him at all when he was popular.  Sorry folk of the eighties, but there go the
nineties. How do I unsubscribe to this list?


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:30:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris Schumann <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) bootlegs

I have been wrestling with this issue concerning an even less-well-known
80's band. In my case, the band members we could find were tickled about
the publicity, and were not insterested at all in recordings they had made
FIFTEEN YEARS ago.

With all the effort I have put into making these items, I would stop in a
heartbeat if one of the rightful parties would start selling the
recordings, but I don't think it will happen. It's a huge heap of trouble
to release a recording that you will sell 100 of in a good year. Nobody in
business would make such a foolish decision.

To those of us who think the reward is in the sharing, it makes a lot of
sense.

Chris Schumann <[e-mail]>

"I am a cipher, wrapped in an enigma, smothered in secret sauce."
  - Jimmy James, News Radio



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:07:43 -0400
From: Adam J Weitzman <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: bootlegs

Just to continue on this thread for a moment:

> From: Stefan Doroschuk [mailto:[e-mail]]
> To: Richard Holdman
> Subject: Re: Copyright infringement
>
> Whether you made much money or not is irrelevant. Did you
> ever think twice that maybe we don't want these floating around?
> That if we deemed these to be up to our standards that maybe
> we would have put them out on a live album by now?

It occurs to me that there are no official recordings whatsoever of live Men
Without Hats material.  Based on this statement, I can only assume that this is
because none of their live performances were any good.  That seems highly
unlikely, but if that's what Stefan really believes, who am I to argue?  I never
saw any of their concerts, so I can't say for sure.

> The net result is you have deprived us of our
> artistic license and revenue.

Revenue?  Doubt it.  This stuff wasn't out there to purchase, so there was no
revenue lost.  Put it another way: is there anyone who owns a bootleg but does
*not* own the official Collection or Greatest Hats comp or the 2-fer?  I own both
(and most people on this list, including me, had to send money to Germany to get
the 2-fer), as well as many other official MWH items, on vinyl, cassette and CD.
They got their money's worth out of me, and I'm sure 95% of the people who
purchased the bootlegs are in the same boat.

However, he absolutely has a point about artistic license.  *They* made the
recordings, so it is theirs to do with as they please.  No fan has any kind of
right to that, much as we would all like to believe otherwise.

If Stefan feels deprived of revenue, I'll be happy to send him money for the
bootlegs I purchased from Richard.  But I don't think that's really what he's
complaining about.  I think he's angry that we took their art and distributed it
amongst ourselves, even though they never said that we could.  Didn't we try and
ask them if it was OK?  I know Richard sent some to Ivan and he liked them.

> You certainly never did me or Ivan any favors by doing this.

Here I disagree with Stefan entirely.  Unless it's the money that he's after (and
again, I doubt that it is), all we did was perpetuate interest in the band.  This
can only be a good thing.  His argument could be that they never wanted us to
hear it because it wasn't as good as the officially released material, and he has
a point there.  But it's really only big fans who were interested in hearing it
anyways, fans who liked the band so much that we were happy just to hear them and
get more insight into a band we really enjoyed.

If you go to his new website for MWH (http://www.mpgang.com/mwhmain.html), he
certainly seems to be fond of the old days.  In fact, on his Q&A page, he
actually suggests that (a) he'd love a copy of the demos, or any MWH bootleg
recording you might have, and would send you a free MPG CD in exchange for it,
and (b) he wouldn't mind if people make copies of any MWH sheet music there might
be and send them to him (again, for a free CD).  I would think that he should be
able to generate new copies of the sheet music himself!

And he has a section ready to make available RA's of old MWH songs and live
versions.  It seems to me that instead of Richard doing the bootlegging, he wants
to do it himself.  I say, great, about time!  And a link for "licensing
information," which is really just an email address.  I wonder what Richard could
license from him and what he would charge.  It would be nice to be official
rather than bootleg, don't you think?

As an aside, I downloaded the MP3's for the Mackenzie-Parker Gang.  Um, let's put
it this way: if I had any of the stuff he wanted, I would send it to him for
nothing and not bother with the free CD.  It sounded very generic and boring to
me.

- --
Adam J Weitzman            "They don't make music like that
NewsEdge Corporation        these days.  In fact, sometimes
http://www.newsedge.com     they don't even make music."
http://www.newspage.com                        - Dave Barry




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:13:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hello Goodbye

I met you in 1988 while you were touring to support Pop Goes The World.

Both you and Ivan autographed my "Rhythm Of Youth" and "Folk Of The
80's, Part III" LP covers.

I bought "Pop Goes The World" on CD the day after I saw you, Ivan,
Bruce, Heidi, Marika, and Lenny perform.

I have regularly worn in public my homemade yellow and white Men Without
Hats T-shirts for more than two years now.

I own "RoY", "Fot80s3", "PGtW", "In The 21st Century", "Sideways", and
Oglio's "Collection" on CDs.  I own a variety of MWH 12" singles and
albums on vinyl, including the original "Folk of the 80s" EP.

I didn't even know "Sideways" existed until I joined the Men Without
Hats email list in late 1996.  By way of that I learned how to contact
HMV in Toronto so that I could buy a copy of it and complete my MWH CD
collection.  I also bought your brother's CD, "The Spell", at the same
time.

When Oglio released the "2fer" CD a couple of years ago but only outside
of North America, I and many of the other people of the mailing list
organized and pooled our money so that a list subscriber in Germany
could send bulk shipments of it to a list subscriber here in the States
who volunteered to then distributed them domestically to those who'd
paid for them.  That wasn't an easy or inexpensive thing to do but we
were dedicated enough then to do it.

I've even taken the time to create my own rendition of "Life After
Diamond Head" with my Ensoniq EPS-16Plus at home.

It would not be unreasonable to say that for the past 16 of the 33 years
I've been alive on this planet my support for your creative work has
been substantial and avid.  However, due to the content of your recent
exchanges with Richard Holdman regarding the issue of bootleg CD-Rs, I
have removed my name from the shortlist of names of people who claim to
still be your fans.

I understand your argument but I do not approve of your methods.

Richard has done much since I've "met" him to maintain my and other
peoples' interest in your work.  It is *you* who have done yourself and
Ivan no favours by attacking him in the manner in which you have.

You don't have to give me an official black hat award.  I made a bootleg
of Richard's and am wearing it right now with immense pride.

You should apologize.

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 14:25:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: goreal <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) re: copyright infr.

maybe there's a chance that Stefan owns the rights to the songs and
Ivan doesn't.
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:08:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: goreal <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) re: mpgang MWH site

interesting to see this on the MWH/MPGang main page:

"Coming soon: RealAudio files of old MWH songs & live versions."
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 11:53:40 PDT
From: "* *" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) STef's a GOOF!

I bump into ivan from time to time... he'd be disgusted with his brother's
comments.
Ivan is MEN WITHOUT HATS
Stefan is NOT.

Besides..Stefan WAS an AVERAGE PRODUCER and a pathetic guitar player -the
live recordings speak for themselves. Perhaps this is why John from the
Doughboys was the guitar player for the last few mwh's tour's- Perhaps this
is where Stefan's frustration really stems.
Actually i could care less about Stefan..
Ivan IS da bomb!
Colin's 2 cd's are brilliant...

hmmmmmm....
2 outta three aint bad.

PS  Myke-DON'T LEAVE THE LIST! WE NEED YOU GUYS !

:)


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 15:38:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) I'm Outtahere!!

> PS  Myke-DON'T LEAVE THE LIST! WE NEED YOU GUYS !

Thanks.  Not to worry.  I don't know exactly what I mean to say
when I put that at the bottoms of my messages.  It's just a general
expression of the negative way Stefan has made me feel lately.

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:05:35 -0400
From: "Kerry Gordon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Bootleg Definition

Personally I define bootlegs as unlicensed duplication of officially =
released material (when somebody duplicates a recording and sells it as =
the real thing). This is they type of bootlegging that is more of a =
concern to the recording industry.

I do not classify duplication of unlicensed live recordings or out of =
print rare material, to share with other fans, as "Bootlegging".

The artist is the last person you want to hear from when it comes down to =
the opinion of "You can only share what we want you to share". Artists =
cannot judge for me what I want to hear or what I should hear. I believe =
that all artists should make live recordings available immediatlely =
following each concert. Flubs, mistakes and the like are part of the =
performance and should not make the recording "not good enough" when fans =
are at issue.

When I attend a conference, recordings of most convention speakers (audio =
& video) are always available as you leave regardless of how many ums, ahs =
& mispronounciation the speakers make. Documentation serves a purpose!

Trading recordings with a charge to cover the costs of equipment, =
materials and shipping should not be confused with bootlegging.

Kerry



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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:23:43 -0600 (MDT)
From: Tim Grimes <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Bootlegs and such

According to the Federal Anti-Piracy and Bootleg FAQ

Counterfeit recordings:  The unauthorized recording of the prerecorded
sounds, as well as the unauthorized duplication of original artwork,
label, trademark, and packaging of prerecorded music.

Pirate recordings: The unauthorized duplication of only the sounds of one
or more legitimate recordings.

Bootleg Recordings:  The unauthorized recording of a musical broadcast, on
radio, or television or of a live concert.

http://www.grayzone.com/faqindex.htm





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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) I was going to post this but somebody beat me to it...

...nevertheless I will attempt to explain it in "layman's terms".

Bootlegs are recordings which don't exist in commercial form.

Pirates are recordings of commercial releases which are obviously
        not the real things.

Counterfeits are illegally manufactured copies of commercial releases
             which are packaged and/or marketed in such a way so as to
             fool buyers into believing they're purchasing legitimate
             merchandise.

Myke


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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:49:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Fair Use

Here's the United State Code that pertains to fair use, verbatim:

Sec. 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use
of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or
phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for
purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching
(including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or
research, is not an infringement of copyright.

In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case
is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use
    is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to
    the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of
    the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of
fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above
factors.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the United States Library of Congress:


                           FAIR USE

One of the rights accorded to the owner of copyright is the right
to reproduce or to authorize others to reproduce the work in
copies or phonorecords. This right is subject to certain
limitations found in sections 107 through 120 of the copyright act
(title 17, U.S. Code). One of the more important limitations is
the doctrine of "fair use." Although fair use was not mentioned in
the previous copyright law, the doctrine has developed through a
substantial number of court decisions over the years. This
doctrine has been codified in section 107 of the copyright law.

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the
reproduction of a particular work may be considered "fair," such
as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and
research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered
in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

        (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether
            such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit
            educational purposes;

        (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

        (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in
            relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

        (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or
            value of the copyrighted work.

The distinction between "fair use" and infringement may be unclear
and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words,
lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission.

Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not
substitute for obtaining permission.


The 1961 _Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General

Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law_ cites examples of activities
that courts have regarded as fair use: "quotation of excerpts in
a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment;
quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for
illustration or clarification of the author's observations; use in
a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of
an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report;
reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part
of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small
part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in
legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and
fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work
located in the scene of an event being reported."

Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed
himself; it does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual
information conveyed in the work.

The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright
owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office
cannot give this permission.

When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted
material should be avoided unless the doctrine of "fair use" would
clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither
determine if a certain use may be considered "fair" nor advise on
possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is
advisable to consult an attorney.


***Last update 6/10/93 (raa)***



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:05:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: Tim Grimes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Fair Use

And you beat me to that one :)

Tim



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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:16:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Fair Use

> And you beat me to that one :)

:-)

Myke


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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:20:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Now you know why...

I am often prone to referring to the MWH video/CDs collection on VHS
HiFi videotape as "Pirates With Boots".  Not only is that name a funny
pun on the group name "Men Without Hats", it accurately describes the
contents.

Men      Pirates
Without  With
Hats     Boots

Get it?  (Ark! Ark!)

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:22:21 -0400
From: Adam J Weitzman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Fair Use

By posting this, are you implying that perhaps the fan CDs were "fair
use?"  There is no way that argument holds.  It's a copyright violation,
pure and simple.

I agree that Stefan should lighten up about all this, given the nature
of the recordings, but let's not pretend that these CDs are anything
other than what they are.

- --
Adam J Weitzman            "They don't make music like that
NewsEdge Corporation        these days.  In fact, sometimes
http://www.newsedge.com     they don't even make music."
http://www.newspage.com                        - Dave Barry




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:01:59 -0700
From: jon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: bootlegs

Adam J Weitzman wrote:

>information," which is really just an email address.  I wonder what
Richard could
>license from him and what he would charge.  It would be nice to be official
>rather than bootleg, don't you think?
>
>As an aside, I downloaded the MP3's for the Mackenzie-Parker Gang.  Um,
let's put
>it this way: if I had any of the stuff he wanted, I would send it to him for
>nothing and not bother with the free CD.  It sounded very generic and
boring to
>me.


I have to slightly disagree with this statement. The MPG stuff was
downright awful.

I think a retrospective compilation, remixes, live tracks, demos would be
great, and i know a label who would be interested in putting it together.
I'll see what i can do, so maybe the fans can finally have a legalised
version of the bootlegs. :o)

Take care,

jon


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End of hats-digest V2 #143
**************************