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hats-digest           Monday, July 19 1999           Volume 02 : Number 142




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:12:02 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) FW: Copyright infringement

One thing you can be sure of: MWH & company will never release a live
recording themselves, so you can give up on the idea of hearing any more live
stuff from them.

Dan
- ------------
In a message dated 7/16/99 9:52:41 PM !!!First Boot!!!, [e-mail]
writes:
<< Looks like I will not be selling any more CDs. I just got a e-mail from
 Stefan Doroschuk (see below) and he does not sound happy.

 I will not be accepting any more requests from MWH fans that want these
 great live recordings. In the back of my head this whole time I always
 thought that MWH would not mind us MWH fans trading these live
 recordings. I guess I was wrong. There are many bands today that allow
 their fans to trade live recordings (Pearl Jam and others). >>


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:06:47 -0400
From: "Kerry Gordon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH 10" Vinyl  - Folk Of The 80's - ebay

Up For Grabs - MWH 10" Vinyl  - Folk Of The 80's
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D130155615

Kerry



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:42:46 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) FW: Copyright infringement

It should be pointed out that it is perfectly legal to Trade cds as opposed
to selling them.

Bill
- -------------
In a message dated 7/16/99 9:52:41 PM !!!First Boot!!!, [e-mail]
writes:
 << Looks like I will not be selling any more CDs. I just got a e-mail from
  Stefan Doroschuk (see below) and he does not sound happy.

  I will not be accepting any more requests from MWH fans that want these
  great live recordings. >>


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) FW: Copyright infringement

On Fri, 16 Jul 1999 [e-mail] wrote:

>
> It should be pointed out that it is perfectly legal to Trade cds as opposed
> to selling them.

I think technically it's perfectly OK to give something away, but taking
an item in trade is the same as receiving money for it.

dave


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:27:02 -0400
From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) no infringements of any kind

Interesting how NOW Stefan warns us.  Anyway, I've studied the subject of
legal issues of bootlegs and so far the ones we have (the live ones) are
legal.  Concerts are public domain.  SOme concert halls have a policy that
you cannot record the concerts.  So be it.  Recently, a law was passed in
Canada that a Canadian artist cannot be reocrded.  Well, the live stuff we
have have been recorded way before the 90s :)

Trading live stuff is legal.  It's the charging a fee for a profit that
isn't.  Charging a fee for the cost of mailing, cd, label, etc isn't
illegal.

What is weird is Ivan loved the bootlegs which he got two summers ago but
Stefan hates them?

The iffy part is the 12"s of Moonbeam and Freeways.  But they are ultra rare.

Besides, even if live albums were released, we'd still buy them and really
we'd be th eonly peopel who would care to buy them.  Everyone else think of
Men Without Hats as the group who sang "Safety Dance" and "Whoever sings
that 80s song that goes 'pop goes the world'?".




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 21:38:55 -0400
From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) copyright infringments part 2

Addendum.....The "Freeways" cd is ok becuase it is ok to make copies of
what WE have which we all already had anyway.

As for Stefan's remarks about him having our addresses, I think he only has
yours Richard because I for one never gave out mine :)  Don't worry, we
aren't going to be thrown in jail nor will we be forced to give away our
CDs.

You have to look at this issue from his point of view.  He made this
music(or was it Ivan?) and he sees a website of MP3s and other sites
"advertising" bootleg cds.  He's most likely not seein it as harmless
trading and sharing among friends who are fellow-fans.








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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:01:52 -0400
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) no infringements of any kind

>Interesting how NOW Stefan warns us.  Anyway, I've studied the subject of
>legal issues of bootlegs and so far the ones we have (the live ones) are
>legal.  Concerts are public domain.  SOme concert halls have a policy that
>you cannot record the concerts.  So be it.  Recently, a law was passed in
>Canada that a Canadian artist cannot be reocrded.  Well, the live stuff we
>have have been recorded way before the 90s :)


You may have a good point here.  But as far as I am concerned, If Ivan
Stefan or Colin wants us to stop, we should stop.

>Trading live stuff is legal.  It's the charging a fee for a profit that
>isn't.  Charging a fee for the cost of mailing, cd, label, etc isn't
>illegal.


Right.... But we don't want to make enemys of the band we LIKE.   Fans and
the Artist should be on the same side.   Stefan probably gave us a warning
because he is not quite sure himself.  In other words, lets forget about
whats legal and do what is right.


>What is weird is Ivan loved the bootlegs which he got two summers ago but
>Stefan hates them?

>The iffy part is the 12"s of Moonbeam and Freeways.  But they are ultra
rare.
>
>Besides, even if live albums were released, we'd still buy them and really
>we'd be th eonly peopel who would care to buy them.  Everyone else think of
>Men Without Hats as the group who sang "Safety Dance" and "Whoever sings
>that 80s song that goes 'pop goes the world'?".


Hey Richard!   Good call.  Time to call it quits for now.....
Perhaps we can e-mail Stefan and explain to him that we are just sharing
rare MWH material amoungst people on the list, only.

Tom
[e-mail]

Tom
[e-mail]








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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:29:46 -0600
From: "Stephen D. Sundstrom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Copyright Infringement...

You know....I guess if Stefan wants the trading of MWH bootlegs stopped,
then it should be stopped.  However, I really wonder if he understands how
the trading/selling of the cd's took place.  I doubt if Richard ever made
much money through the selling of MWH bootlegs.  I know where Richard lives
as well (that one's aimed at you Stefan), and he doesn't live in Beverly
Hills or drive a BMW.  I'd dare say he barely covered the cost of the CDRs
that were used in the burning of the CD's.

Second, I would think that the band would be happy to see such a strong
following and demand for their recordings.  Mabey MWH should capitalize on
this and release a live recording for the public to be able to buy (I would
love to hear a live recording from their Pop Goes The World tour).  I for
one have purchased every album that MWH has released, and still have hopes
to someday see another MWH album released.

But...I don't think that they (MWH) should be upset that fans are desperate
to hear new recordings, and if boots are all that exist, then so be it.

Just the thoughts of one fan.

- -Steve




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 03:26:54 -0600
From: "Stephen D. Sundstrom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Copyright Infringement...

As if my last message wasn't long enough, I just had another thought that I
wanted to share with the MWH lists.  Somebody mentioned earlier in this
thread that "we don't want to make enemies with the band we LIKE", which I
have to agree with.  But, I would also say that the band we LIKE, shouldn't
want to make enemies with us.  Without their loyal fans, where would they
be.

I don't know.  I guess I'm just rambling, but seeing Richards posting kind
of suprised me tonight.  Actually, I rolled into the house tonight after
seeing a great concert.  Alphaville was playing their first ever gig in
North America tonight, and in MY hometown nonetheless.  The whole show was
put together, and organized by the people who run their North American fan
club which happens to based out of Provo, UT of all places (there's always
been a big '80s music following here, and bands such as Oingo Boingo and The
Violent Femmes have always made a point to include Salt Lake on their
tours).  I guess I would have just loved to see the former MWH members
utilize the MWH fan mailing list as a tool rather than worry about a small
amount of tape selling.

I also have to agree though, that if the recordings had only been "traded"
rather than "sold", Stefan probably wouldn't be as upset.  But then again,
who knows????

Well, I'll spare you all any more of my rambling.  It's late, about 3:00 am,
and I should try to get some sleep.

Take care,

Steve




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:09:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: goreal <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) re: copyright infringement

I thought MCA still owned their portion of the recordings, ie. Rhythm
through Freeways?  At least that's how it was when Oglio was
rereleasing their CDs..

The PGTW-forward tracks are anybody's guess, though the band probably
owns those..

How 'bout just giving them away?  CDRs are all but free these days
(with mail-in-rebate), and requestors could supply their own mailer.
No selling there..

Just as surprised as you all must be..

> --- Richard Holdman <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > Looks like I will not be selling any more CDs. I just got a e-mail
> > from
> > Stefan Doroschuk (see below) and he does not sound happy.


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:04:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Stefan is an ass.

Wasn't it mentioned via this list recently that Stefan has his own
group now - or something to that effect?  Well, I have just lost all
interest in anything new he has to offer.  That he's done what he's
done isn't the problem.  It's the manner in which he did it that irks
me.  Distributing rare recordings which aren't available otherwise has
been an exciting part of being a pop/rock music fan for at least the
past 30 years.  Usually people like to hear and own bootlegs of groups
they particularly enjoy, therefore, if I deliberately shield myself
from hearing Stefan's new work, I'll have no desire to seek out live
performances and studio outtakes that aren't otherwise available as well.

I feel that Stefan has attacked us.

I'm outtahere.

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:47:59 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Lack of Copyright Infringement...

I can't imagine what the problem is with Stefan. I specifically joined this
list to try and buy CD-Rs of Men Without Hats demos, and anyone with the
goods is really reluctant to actually tell me how to order. Maybe they think
I'm Stefan's underling...


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:30:12 -0400
From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Stop and smell the roses :)

I apologize for all the e-mails I've written (so far 2 but still) about
this but bootlegs have always fascinated me and well, I just can't help
myself!  Then again, Stefan has helped revive this list! ;)

This e-mail is a little long but trust me on this one, I think what I have
to say may calm us down :)

>Wasn't it mentioned via this list recently that Stefan has his own
>group now - or something to that effect?  Well, I have just lost all
>interest in anything new he has to offer.  That he's done what he's

Oh let us not get too far now :)  Keep in mind that Stefan is a musician
who, it seems, just found out his music is being sold by some stranger.
Sure Ivan loved the bootlegs but for all we know, Stefan never knew.  It's
a long shot but maybe Stefan doesn't approve?  We don't know but as Tom
said, let's not become their enemies.  We are greatful fans appreciating
their music after how many years?

So what if Stefan doesn't want us to trade tapes anymore.  We'll still do
it anyway.  Fans worldwide have been doing it for decades!

And, I'm sure Stefan might be a collector-- maybe of Elvis recordings?  So
I'm sure he understands us.  That's why I think he may feel threatended by
the fact that "someone on the Internet" is selling his music.  I'm sure he
has lots of questions to ask (first and foremost it's most likely, "Who
does this guy think he is making money off of our stuff?!").  For all he
knows, his own band's demos can be selling somewhere.

Stop and think for a minute: We've managed to get the demos from "Rhythm of
Youth", "Folk of the 80s Part 3", and the "Winnebago Song".  Pretty
impressive and pretty much impossible to find.  But somehow we got them.
As far as Stefan might be thinking, we've got the power.  We've managed to
get *TEN* bootlegs which is way more than the number of official albums.
That's why I think he said what he felt he had to say. If I was in his
shoes, I'd feel my art was threatened too.  It's just a theory.

So you see, in my opinion, it has nothing to do with trying explain what we
are doing is appreciative, archiving rare recordings, etc.  They already
know that-- fans drove to Montreal (some for 17 hours!!) to meet Ivan and
Colin; they saw our shirts; then drove to Toronto for his next show; Colin
mentioned releasing a demo CD for us fans...trust me they know.

Imagine for a moment again....How did Stefan find out about these bootlegs?
 My guess is he searched on the WWW for "Men Without Hats".  When I did
that last year, aside from the bios and lyrics, all I found was information
on how to get the bootlegs.  And people used the word "sell" meaning
"paying for the disc and mailing etc" but the impression is "profit".

Try not to make Stefan the "George Harisson" of the band.



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:49:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Stop and smell the roses :)

Stefan could have conferred with his brother first to find out more
about the situation before taking the action he opted to take.

It's not what he's done that irks me.  It's the way he did it.

Richard Holdman isn't a criminal for helping us obtain the CDs
we have, yet Stefan threatens FBI investigations "right off the bat".
What a jerk.

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:00:13 -0600
From: "Stephen D. Sundstrom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) fwd: Stop and smell the roses...

>Stefan could have conferred with his brother first to find out more
>about the situation before taking the action he opted to take.

>It's not what he's done that irks me.  It's the way he did it.

>Richard Holdman isn't a criminal for helping us obtain the CDs
>we have, yet Stefan threatens FBI investigations "right off the bat".
>What a jerk.

>Myke

- -----------

I agree Myke...

If Stefan was so concerned, why not approach the situation in a more
reasonable manor.  Why not be more resonable with Richard (or anybody else
on the list...)?  My point is this...If it weren't for the bootleg
trading/selling, then many fans of MWH would never have a chance to hear
these great recordings.  I was just 13 years old in 1984, and really didn't
have the chance to travel from my hometown in Utah to Washington D.C. or
Toronto where some of the recordings took place.  The fact is, there are
plenty of fans that probably would NEVER have the chance to hear MWH live if
not for the bootleg recordings.

My guess is that Stefan probably is more concerned about somebody making a
profit from these recordings, and MWH not getting their fair share.  If this
is the case, then mabey Stefan, Ivan, and Colin should be willing to take a
more active part in keeping in touch with their fans, through such channels
as the MWH mailing list.

However, with that said, I don't really have any "anger" towards Stefan.
I'm just disappointed with how he handled this situation with Richard
(threatening FBI ivolvement, give me a break!).  This isn't to say that if
MWH were to release any new recordings, or even Ivan, Stefan, or Colin for
that sake...that I wouldn't be ready to shell out a few bucks for the CD's.
Hell, I'd be at my local record store in a heartbeat.

Thanks for listening....

Steve





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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 19:00:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: goreal <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) copyright

'Course we don't know for sure that was Stefan, right?  It takes
practically nothing to forge an email..

Assuming Richard still has the original, he can go through the raw
email heading and try to determine how the email was routed.. might
give an indication one way or the other..



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:09:04 -0600
From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Copyright Infringement

I sent a e-mail back to Stefan about the bootlegs and I am waiting to
hear back from him.

I think my first mistake was that I had a Web page (www.holdman.com/mwh)
that people could go to and find out what songs were on the bootlegs and
how to get them. At first I was reluctant to put the bootlegs on my web
page knowing that it might bring trouble, but then I thought about all
the MWH fans that don't even know this Mailing List Exists. I have
received lots of mail from big MWH fans that could not believe these
recordings existed and they had no idea about this mailing list either.

I am hoping that Stefan just thought I was in it to make money and will
understand that we are MWH fans just trying to get all these great live
recordings.

Oh, well... I guess I will just have to wait and see what Stefan writes
back to me.

What is kind of strange is I received the message below a few days
before I got the one from Stefan.

- -----Original Message-----
From: The Radioboy [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 9:37 AM
To: Richard Holdman
Subject: question


I was just wondering about the mp3 cd you are offering.  Have you given
it a title?  Also you said these were made available through the mailing
list, I'm guessing by you originally.  Are these sanctioned by Ivan?
I'm not a legal snoop or anything, just curious?  Anyway, I'd appreciate
an answer to satisfy my curiosity. :-)  Thanks!  -Paul

- ------

I am wondering if he knew Stefan and told him or something.

I will let everyone know what Stefan tells me when he e-mails me (if he
ever does)

- -Richard

Note: In the very near future I will be making a MWH message board.


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 19:41:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: Tim Grimes <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Question for Richard

Was it you that at one point sugested using #mwh on efnet?  If so, what
ever happened to that.  I was on several times, and didn't see anyone
else.  I personally spend a lot of time on IRC so it would be a great
place for me.  Also if you need help with the messages board, I'm willing.

Tim Grimes



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:35:06 -0400
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Copyright Infringement

>I sent a e-mail back to Stefan about the bootlegs and I am waiting to
>hear back from him.


I also e-mailed Stefan in your defense as well.  I have e-mailed him before,
but never got a response.   I told him that you are not the only responsible
for these CDs.  I told him that I am responsible as well.  Hopefully, I will
get a response.  I am not counting on it.

>I think my first mistake was that I had a Web page (www.holdman.com/mwh)
>that people could go to and find out what songs were on the bootlegs and
>how to get them. At first I was reluctant to put the bootlegs on my web
>page knowing that it might bring trouble, but then I thought about all
>the MWH fans that don't even know this Mailing List Exists. I have
>received lots of mail from big MWH fans that could not believe these
>recordings existed and they had no idea about this mailing list either.


Yes, exactly!  You have turned Men Without Hats into a mega band with
multiple albums, instead of a one hit wonder kinda band with only 1 greatest
hits CD.  The logical thing to do would be to thank you.

>I am hoping that Stefan just thought I was in it to make money and will
>understand that we are MWH fans just trying to get all these great live
>recordings.


This might be an inappropriate time to bring this up..... but If Stefan
thinks that what you are doing is alright......   Can you ask him about the
Pop Goes The World demos?

No....nevermind.  Not a chance.

Tom
[e-mail]




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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:10:31 -0400
From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) chat tonight?

Sorry for yet another e-mail guys!  But tonight I'll be on IRC for a few
hours so I'll stay on #mwh on efnet just in case some of you can pop in.
I'll be online at 5:00 pm Eastern (Toronto, Montreal, New York time) until
around 10pm.



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:41:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Stop and dethorn the roses :)

ROFLMAO!

I guess you are right too!  :)

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:06:00 -0400
From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Question for Richard

>Was it you that at one point sugested using #mwh on efnet?  If so, what
>ever happened to that.  I was on several times, and didn't see anyone

I'd love to go on that chatroom again!  How about we set up a time?



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:38:22 -0600
From: "Stephen D. Sundstrom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Alphaville concert from 7/16/99 in SLC, Utah

I mentioned the other day that I had just gotten home from seeing the
Alphaville concert here in SLC, Utah.  One thing I forgot to mention was
that one of the opening bands, a synthpop band called The Echoeing Green out
of New Mexico, played "The Safety Dance" during their set.  Kind of an
interesting cover of the song, but not nearly as enjoyable as listening to
MWH play the song, which I was lucky enough to do when I saw MWH perform as
the opening band for Icehouse on Icehouse' "Man Of Colors" tour.  MWH won
over the crowd like I've never seen an opening act do before, ....but who
would've expected less???

Talk to ya later,

Steve




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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:30:37 -0700
From: jon <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Stefan is an ass.

 hey there,

 i support you richard--i completely forgot to order your cds, i guess i'm a
 bit too late. I do the same sort of thing with other artists, and i have
 never received a complaint, but most artists probably aren't hunting around
 for cdr traders.

 I work for a record label and I got in touch with Stefan about donig some
 new material and possibly re-recording some MWH hits for an album. He sent
 in his new project (and it was not very good at all...)

 We haven't replied back. I wasn't going to mention it but i thought i would
 now. This is really a trivial matter, and I understand how he feels, but
 the fans are the ones who BUY the records, if you alienate them, there's
 not much support--so, maybe we can just get back to trading (not selling).

 Anyway, take care,

 jon

> >from hearing Stefan's new work, I'll have no desire to seek out live
> >performances and studio outtakes that aren't otherwise available as well.
> >
> >I feel that Stefan has attacked us.
> >
> >I'm outtahere.
> >
> >Myke
> >



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:21:04 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Answer from Stefan


 Here is an answer from Stefan..... What can I say.


 In a message dated 99-07-17 16:49:47=E9), [e-mail] writes:
>
> << I realise that he didn't make much money, but that still doesn't give
>  him the right to give away our music for free. So tell everyone to take
>  a deep breath and relax, I certainly can't fault everyone from wanting
>  or having these CDs, I'm sure that I'll get a good laugh out of them
>  myself,
>  Stefan
>   >>







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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 16:13:43 +0000
From: "James E. Fowler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) no infringements of any kind

Daniele Rossi wrote:
>
> Interesting how NOW Stefan warns us.  Anyway, I've studied the subject of
> legal issues of bootlegs and so far the ones we have (the live ones) are
> legal.  Concerts are public domain.  SOme concert halls have a policy that
> you cannot record the concerts.  So be it.  Recently, a law was passed in
> Canada that a Canadian artist cannot be reocrded.  Well, the live stuff we
> have have been recorded way before the 90s :)
>
> Trading live stuff is legal.  It's the charging a fee for a profit that
> isn't.  Charging a fee for the cost of mailing, cd, label, etc isn't
> illegal.

I'm afraid I have to disagree here.  From the point of view of US
copyright law (as I understand it, and I'm not a lawyer), songs
themselves (as opposed to performances or recordings of songs) are
copyrighted.  These copyrights are usually held by the artist
him/herself, or, as is often the case when a song is registered with a
licensing organization such as BMI or ASCAP, an incorporated "publishing
company" (merely a legal entity) created by the artist.  For example, go
to http://www.bmi.com and look up "Safety Dance" -- you'll see that Ivan
Doroschuk is the writer and the music publishing company (holding the
copyright) is "Universal Texascity Music, Inc."  In the US, copyrights
give the copyright holder the *exclusive* rights, including rights to
reproduce the work, distribute the work, or perform the work.  In the
case that a song is registered with a licensing organization, the
licensing organization grants, for example, certain rights to radio
stations, concert promoters, etc., in turn for per-performance or yearly
fees, and then funnels royalty money back to the artist based on a
complicated formula.  It should be noted that the copyright on a song is
completely different than the copyright of a "sound recording" of the
song. For example, the studio recording of "Safety Dance" is copyrighted
by MCA (denoted by "(P) 1983 MCA Records, Inc.").  So for a studio
recording, both the song copyright and the sound-recording copyright
prohibit duplication/distribution, whereas, for a live/bootleg
recording, there is no sound-recording copyright and only the song
copyright applies.  In any event, the songs on the live MWH boots in
question are copyrighted, and therefore production of these boots is
clearly *not* legal---unless whoever (now?) owns "Universal Texascity
Music, Inc." (Stehan?) grants permission.  Additionally, copyright law
prohibits distribution (by sale or other transfer of ownership, rental,
leasing, or lending), so "trading" them would also illegal.  I'm not
sure about whether possessing them is illegal or not, but I do know that
police/customs do often confiscate such items when they happen across
them.  Laws in other countries may vary; however, BMI and ASCAP
licensing operations are worldwide in scope.  See http://www.bmi.com,
http://www.ascap.com, and http://www.loc.gov/copyright for more
information.

- --
=======================================================================
|                         Dr. James E. Fowler                         |
|                         Assistant Professor                         |
|            Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering          |
|                     Mississippi State University                    |
|                                                                     |
|                        [e-mail]                       |
|                                                                     |
- ---------- Postal Address ---------------------- Contact Info ---------
|    Box 9571, 216 Simrall          |       Phone: [phone]      |
|    Mississippi State, MS 39762    |         Fax: [phone]      |
|    USA                            |      Office: Rm. 406 Simrall    |
=======================================================================


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:45:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Answer from Stefan

Did jerk offer any ideas as to whether or not he'd be willing to give
permission if he was asked?  Or perhaps he'd like a cut of our high
profit margins?  I mean we are talking about some pretty high dollar,
high profile stuff here, so I can understand his position. <drip drip drip>

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:59:28 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) BOOTLEGS FOR SALE

If you are interested for the bootlegs, it's 50$ each, + 80$ of shipping and
handling, + commision to the Doroschuck corporation.  haahahahaha

Francis


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 08:03:50 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Talking about bootlegs

Hey, I don't hide myself.

I still have 5 CD#10 not sold, if you are interested to get it, here is what
it contains:

Track #1 to 17, Interview in French with Ivan (full version)
#18 and #19: The SAfety Dance, karaoke mix
#20 and #21: Open your eyes, Riprock's mixes.

The CD is yours for 40$. ..... 30$..... 20..... 15........

Okay   okay, 10$  INCLUDING shipping.  (Where's the profit here).


Just E-mail me to get my address.

(FBI and RCMP are welcome)

Francis


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:24:15 -0600
From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) copyright - It was Stefan for sure

It was Him alright. I sent a email back to him at [e-mail]
which mpgang.com is his web site talking about his new album and the
"offical MWH web site"


- ---

'Course we don't know for sure that was Stefan, right?  It takes
practically nothing to forge an email..

Assuming Richard still has the original, he can go through the raw
email heading and try to determine how the email was routed.. might
give an indication one way or the other..



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:43:29 -0400
From: "Dr. Laura M. B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) busy weekend!

Hi all!

Steve said,

> ... a synthpop band called The Echoeing Green out
> of New Mexico, played "The Safety Dance" during their set.

Hmm, I wonder if the copyright owners knew about this?  ;-)

Sorry I missed all the excitement this weekend - dog show (what
else?) stuff.

Francis, do you know if Stefan had talked to Ivan or Colin about the
boots before he wrote to Richard?  They seemed to think it was
great when we met them two summers ago.

Richard & Tom, I think Stefan needs my address, too!  I helped
distribute the first Oglio album to our overseas friends, and I worked
with two other hatters to get the 2-fer distributed in this country.
And don't forget the hats T-shirts!  I hope when we're all in jail
together we get shirts with vertical stripes - horizontal stripes make
me look really fat.  ;-)

CUL8R!
:-) Laura in NC


U-CD Cocoa CD NA CGC (1/2 NGC), semi-retired
Mustard CGC
Doctor Pepper CGC


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End of hats-digest V2 #142
**************************