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hats-digest           Monday, March 23 1998           Volume 02 : Number 045




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:14:23 EST
From: ADTooley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) POP UP VIDEO PICS

In a message dated 98-03-23 02:23:37 EST, you write:

<< Hatters-
 I converted the Pop-Up Video pics from Bitmaps to Gifs.  They now download
 quicker and straight to your browser.  They are at
 http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom/vh1.html.

 Eric Soderblom
 [e-mail]
 http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom >>

Nice job --- I think every single pop-up is in there!  Now give us some really
nice pictures for wallpaper!!!!!

Angie


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:02:17 -0500
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) concert

Hello everyone,

Man what a flame war this list has become!
We should all just leave it up to Francis and calm down.  And we should
thank Angie for getting the wheels rolling in the very beginning and just
leave it at that.
     Our motivation should be -- "make it to the show".
I can't understand why everyone would waste their time worrying about --
Who gets the credit for putting this together.   who cares?
I think the only way to win is to make it to the show, right?
None of us will make it to the show if we bother Francis with complicated
details, until he just gives up trying.  We should let ONE person worry
about it and leave it at that.  2,3,4, or 5 people trying to give their
opinions will just make it that harder for Francis to cut a deal.

And remember......

Hugo and Ivan read messages off this list from time to time....

just an opinion.....

Tom
[e-mail]



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:06:27 +0000
From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) nomination & video question

Hi Hatters!

Daniele said . . .
> . . . Ivan has a  tattoo on his arm.   .  .. does anyone know what
> it is? :)

It's the symbol for Libra, Ivan's horoscope sign.

Does anyone know the outcome of the Juno awards?

T-shirts are ordered and should be ready by the 1st of April!

L8R, T8Rs!

:-) Laura


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:15:58 -0500
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) boots 6,7,8

Good news.........

Mr. Somebody2 is nearly finished remastering boots 6 & 7.

He said that I should have them by the end of the month.

Now I realize that everyone will want one of these.
The only question is : who will be able to mass duplicate these when they
are ready?

Richard Holdman,   Are you burned out yet?  (excuse the pun).
If not, I am prepared to get you a set the very same day that I receive
them.
I will be willing to pay for your set if you can find the time to continue
your good work for the list.

Russ Kemsley,
You may need to take over for Richard at this point.  Richard did do like
80 sets for us.

If both of you guys are too busy, then I will try and make as many sets as
I can with my slow 2X CD burner.


Now for CD#8:

This is the Lee's Palace Ivan concert from 1997.  ITs NOT the Duran Duran
show.  I have heard the Duran Duran/IVAN tape and this sounds much better.
It is NOT the same guy that taped the Ivan/Duran show.

Although, it does sound 10X better than the Duran tape, the quality is
still not CD quality like the other boots.

I am going to send Richard a CD#8 so that he can upload it to his MP3 site.
Then you can all download the tracks as see if it sounds good or not.
Then perhaps Richard can burn those too, or maybe Russ, it all depends.

Now for the big news:

What is on CDs 6&7?

Direct Soundboard recordings of 2 1984 complete concerts.
The quality varies from good (ROY live quality) to a little hissy depending
on which part of the cassette is playing onto the CD.
Some parts of the cassette sound better than any other hats concert.
Remember this is 1st generation cassette deck hooked directly into one of
the hats keyboards, its their tape for God's sake.

I will post the tracklisting next.

Richard and Russ, please e-mail me soon so we can decide who will do what
etc etc etc.  :-)

Tom
[e-mail]



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:22:33 -0500
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) boots tracklisting

CD#6

Men Without Hats - Live  Edmonton, Alberta
August 27, 1984

1. Freeways
2. Antarctica
3. Ban the Game
4. Living In China
5. I Know Their Name
6. Messiahs Die Young
7. Ideas For Walls
8. Eurotheme
9. Things In my Life
10. I Like
11. Safety Dance
12. I got the message (cut off)
13. Where Do the Boys Go?
14. Editions of You
15. Moderne Dancing


CD#7

Men Without Hats - Live in Washington, DC
date unknown but same leg of tour

1. Utter Space
2. Antarctica
3. Ban the Game
4. Living In China
5. I know their name
6. Messiahs Die Young
7. Ideas For Walls
8. Eurotheme
9. Things In My life
10. Where Do the Boys Go?
11. Safety Dance
12. Mother's Opinion
13. Unsatisfaction
14. I got the message
15. Security
16. Moderne Dancing

16 tracks - no breaks.  The longest complete show recorded possibly. :-)


Tom
[e-mail]




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:26:06 -0500
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan NXNE live CD#8


CD#8

Ivan - N X NE 1997

1st gen audience recording - Lee's Palace Toronto - North by Northeast
Festival
June 14, 1997

1. WWW
2. Superbadgirls
3. Open Your Eyes
4. 1972
5. The Spell
6. Wonderwall
7. I Feel Love
8. Pop Goes the World
9. Safety Dance

As you can see this is not the same cassette that has been going around the
list.  This one sounds 10X better.


Tom
[e-mail]




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:37:46 -0500
From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) on second thought

I've thought about it and Avi is right.  It is best if we keep this private
concert a secret among ourselves and our fellow internet-less hats fans.  I
wouldn't want a scalper taking seats from us, or perhaps the media getting
in the way.  Besides, now that Francis has told us that it is Ivan's
decision now, if he prefers a public concert, I'm sure we won't mind at all.

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Online Comic Book
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele

883 Fan Page...dal Canada?
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/3603

Spandau Ballet Unofficial Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/7994



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:38:00 -0500
From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) how do we get tickets?

Here is something I thought of.  How do we get tickets?  One way is by mail
I guess, but what it they get lost or don't arrive on time?  Picking them up
at the venue?  FedEx?

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Online Comic Book
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele

883 Fan Page...dal Canada?
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/3603

Spandau Ballet Unofficial Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/7994



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:49:55 -0600
From: "Rush" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) some clarifications

Claude, if a ticket company is used (like Ticketmaster in the US), not only
will the brokers have access to the tickets, they will have access to the
vast majority of them.  Example, the Stones are playing their final show in
the United Center in Chicago on Apr. 23.  23,000 tickets were sold in less
than eight minutes when they went on sale at 10am.  Why?  Because only about
4,000 tickets were actually sold to fans.  The rest were gone before they
went on sale.
    If we get priority, and the venue is tiny, then no problem, but then
once again, this point is moot, we can promote it all we want and it won't
matter.  It's only the list that is going.

Cordially,
Rush
"To shrug."  --Ayn Rand

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
    > No kidding.  I see the ticket brokers in Chicago on almost a daily
basis,
    > and they would LOVE a thing like this, they would scarf up the tickets
and
    > gouge the hell out of the truly loyal fans.  I didn't even think to
bring
    > this up.  Boy would some of the regulars on this list be ticked if
they
    > couldn't get tickets or had to pay $200.00 for them.

    With your permission Francis, I would like to clarify some things for
our
    mixed friends here; First we are looking for a small venue. The show
will be
    VERY INTIMATE (even if it is publicized to death). Second, the seats are
not
    numbered, all the seats are GOOD (the venue being quite small). Last, no
    "scalpers" will have access to those tickets. Tickets will be sold to
fans.
    Priority (obviously) to the mailing list, then to general public. And we
won't
    sell more tickets than there are available seats!






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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:13:53 -0500
From: "Claude GrΘgoire" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) some clarifications

Rush a =E9crit:
>=20
> Claude, if a ticket company is used (like Ticketmaster in the US), not =
only
> will the brokers have access to the tickets, they will have access to t=
he
> vast majority of them.

Nobody ever mentioned a ticket company! Where did you get that idea? (or =
maybe
you're refering to someone else's post I was not aware of).

>     If we get priority, and the venue is tiny, then no problem, but the=
n
> once again, this point is moot, we can promote it all we want and it wo=
n't
> matter.  It's only the list that is going.

If you say so... We'll just watch and see ;o)

Take care

Claude


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:54:55 +0000
From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Boots of 6,7,8

I talked with Tom about boots CD 6,7,8 and I will be offering them
when I get them. Hopfully I will have them all in the next 3 weeks. I
will also be making a CD-ROM with all 8 Cds in mp3 format. So you
will be able to order each audio CD if you want to or you can just
order the cd-rom with all 8 cds on it in mp3 format.

The Cd-rom will also have some music videos on it including the
latest VH1 pop up video of Safety Dance. There will also be pictures
and whatever else I can find on the net (midi files, etc.) I will
also be making some cool seemless wallpaper for your desktop. :)

If you have any other suggestions plese let me know. A CD-ROM can
hold 650 megs and all 8 bootleg cds in mp3 format will take about
400megs so that leaves 250megs for videos, pictures, midi files,
whatever.

Please dont email me yet with orders for  cds you want. When the CDs
are available I will let you all know. I do want to know though how
many people really want the CD-rom with all the bootlegs on one disc.
I want to make sure enough people want it before I spend all the time
making a semi-interactive HTML CD.

Thanks goes out to Tom for making these CDs available and everyone
else that is involved with the project.

- -Richard


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:05:34 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) some clarifications

In a message dated 98-03-23 02:46:19 EST, [e-mail] writes:

>
>  With your permission Francis, I would like to clarify some things for our
>  mixed friends here; First we are looking for a small venue. The show will
be
>  VERY INTIMATE (even if it is publicized to death). Second, the seats are
not
>  numbered, all the seats are GOOD (the venue being quite small). Last, no
>  "scalpers" will have access to those tickets. Tickets will be sold to fans.
>  Priority (obviously) to the mailing list, then to general public. And we
won'
> t
>  sell more tickets than there are available seats!
>
>  Now, don't relax if you want
>
>  Claude (le mΘnΘe dans l'eau chaude)
>
hi:)

claude, scalpers are not always the easiest of people to spot, or control....
i say let's not tempt fate (ie: publicize this)

ttyl,
- -c-


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:10:26 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) concert

In a message dated 98-03-23 09:02:39 EST, [e-mail] writes:

> Hello everyone,
>
>  Man what a flame war this list has become!
>  We should all just leave it up to Francis and calm down.  And we should
>  thank Angie for getting the wheels rolling in the very beginning and just
>  leave it at that.
>       Our motivation should be -- "make it to the show".
>  I can't understand why everyone would waste their time worrying about --
>  Who gets the credit for putting this together.   who cares?
>  I think the only way to win is to make it to the show, right?
>  None of us will make it to the show if we bother Francis with complicated
>  details, until he just gives up trying.  We should let ONE person worry
>  about it and leave it at that.  2,3,4, or 5 people trying to give their
>  opinions will just make it that harder for Francis to cut a deal.
>
>  And remember......
>
>  Hugo and Ivan read messages off this list from time to time....
>
>  just an opinion.....
>
>  Tom
>  [e-mail]
>
>
>
uh...tom...i don't think that the current dispute is about who's in charge of
this show...that is not the isssue right now...the topic of discussion is
deciding whether or not to make this a public (instead of a private)
event.....

:)


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:13:25 -0600 (CST)
From: "Woodrow W. Zenfell, III" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Amateurs concert recording

Well, I reviewed the recording of Forever from Saturday's concert, and I
wasn't very impressed.  The singing was fairly sloppy overall, the soloist
was not particularly outstanding, and the tenor and bass can hardly be
heard on the recording.  Nonetheless, if anyone really wants me to try to
get a copy of the Forever performance out there, I will do so.  Let me
know if you do.

Take care,
Woody



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:19:59 -0800
From: "Eric W. Soderblom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Show

OK,
I have been sitting on the sidelines about this whole thing, and I have to
put in my 2 cents.  Despite the fact that myself and everyone else on this
list would DIE for tickets to the show, doesn't mean that the whole world
will be clamoring for them.  This isn't U2 or the Stones people.  Lets be
realistic.  I don't see any problem publicizing the show a little bit.  And
let Francis deal with it and if he wants help, he will solicit it.  It seems
as if everyone is a 'wannabe' concert promoter all of a sudden.

Eric Soderblom
[e-mail]
http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:45:14 -0500
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) concert

- ----------
> From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (hats) concert
> Date: Monday, March 23, 1998 3:10 PM
>
>
> In a message dated 98-03-23 09:02:39 EST, [e-mail]
writes:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> >  Man what a flame war this list has become!
> >  We should all just leave it up to Francis and calm down.  And we
should
> >  thank Angie for getting the wheels rolling in the very beginning and
just
> >  leave it at that.
> >       Our motivation should be -- "make it to the show".
> >  I can't understand why everyone would waste their time worrying about
- --
> >  Who gets the credit for putting this together.   who cares?
> >  I think the only way to win is to make it to the show, right?
> >  None of us will make it to the show if we bother Francis with
complicated
> >  details, until he just gives up trying.  We should let ONE person
worry
> >  about it and leave it at that.  2,3,4, or 5 people trying to give
their
> >  opinions will just make it that harder for Francis to cut a deal.
> >
> >  And remember......
> >
> >  Hugo and Ivan read messages off this list from time to time....
> >
> >  just an opinion.....
> >
> >  Tom
> >  [e-mail]
> >
> >
> >
> uh...tom...i don't think that the current dispute is about who's in
charge of
> this show...that is not the isssue right now...the topic of discussion is
> deciding whether or not to make this a public (instead of a private)
> event.....
>
> :)

True,
Hmmmm.    Concerning this new issue, I will sit on the sidelines and watch.
Perhaps we should ask Francis what his opinon is?

Tom
[e-mail]




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:38:35 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Show

In a message dated 98-03-23 15:23:34 EST, [e-mail] writes:

>
>
>  OK,
>  I have been sitting on the sidelines about this whole thing, and I have to
>  put in my 2 cents.  Despite the fact that myself and everyone else on this
>  list would DIE for tickets to the show, doesn't mean that the whole world
>  will be clamoring for them.  This isn't U2 or the Stones people.  Lets be
>  realistic.  I don't see any problem publicizing the show a little bit.  And
>  let Francis deal with it and if he wants help, he will solicit it.  It
seems
>  as if everyone is a 'wannabe' concert promoter all of a sudden.
>
>  Eric Soderblom
>
*dusting off soapbox*

all-RIGHTY, then.....

okie..yes, eric i realize that this is not an event of MAMMOTH proportions to
most humanoids (though it is to ME!); but then let me ask you, what purpose
would publicizing the show bring?...if this is a closed affair, wouldn't that
have the equivilent of thumbing our noses (ie: conveying an expression of the
very sort of `eliteism' (sp) that has been brought up with much disdain in
recent emailings?) at the masses....and if this winds up being a public
affair, even though you may feel that there may not be such a demand for the
tickets outside of the list, what if there IS? claude himself said that the
majority of the group's fanbase isn't even ON the list...

secondly...i myself am not questioning francis & co.'s handling of the booking
of this show....he is wise enough to realise that part of the final decision
is to be as much of a democratic `coming-to-terms' among the list members as a
WHOLE (perhaps casting a vote, beingst this is turning into such a heated
debate) and, as far as i can see, that is exactly what is being
discussed....nowhere do i see anything about anyone considering assumption of
control over the arrangements or implying that they can do a better
job...francis himself has stated that he would like plenty of input, as he
wants to book something that is to the satisfaction of the list members; welp,
he's getting it:)

finally, as one of the individuals who will most likely be forking out a
decent sum towards the initial deposit/arrangements (for the record, this is
NOT cast in stone, yet, but i am being prepared for such a request) i
certainly would appreciate being able express my opinions/wishes re; this
fete...this does NOT, however, make me blind as to what my fellow listmembers
wishes are re: this matter..i may not be quite as vehement (sp) as some re:
the publicity/accessibility of tickets to this show, but i would like to be
able to state my viewpoints just the same, in a rational, nonthreatening and
constructive manner  :)

*may i have a drink of water, now?*

Charlotte


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:57:24 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Show

In a message dated 98-03-23 16:46:29 EST, [e-mail] writes:

>
>  finally, as one of the individuals who will most likely be forking out a
>  decent sum towards the initial deposit/arrangements (for the record, this
is
>  NOT cast in stone, yet, but i am being prepared for such a request)

i am taking no chances and nipping this in the bud before anyone else gets a
chance to jump on this...the above statement is in no way, shape or form
implied or intended to mislead the reader(s) to thinking that i assume that
anyone involved in the initial monetary arrangements have any precedence or
importance over others who are not....

hopefully i have cleared that up before it bites me on the butt;)

thanks again,
Charlotte


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:31:58 -0500 (EST)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Everybody's talkin' 'bout elitism, (ism, ism, ism)

All we are saying is let 'em eat cake!

:-)

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:48:05 PST
From: "Colin McLeod" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Juno Awards and more...

Now, I could have missed something but I don't think so... but has
anyone commented about last nights Juno Awards?    Ivan didn't win.
The nominees for Best Dance Song weren't even mentioned on the air.   At
the end of the broadcast, there was a listing of "awards given out
earlier in the evening".   Best Dance Song went to "Euphoria(Firefly)
(Rabbit in the Moon remix)" by Delerium.   For anyone who might be
interested, Delirium is a side project of the fairly-well-know Canadian
group FrontLine Assembly.  Good stuff, but I would rather have seen Ivan
win.  I didn't see him in any of the audience shots they did either...
so I don't know if he was even there.


Also, I recall someone mentioning that Ivan's performance in Toronto a
few weeks ago was a part of "Canadian Music Week".  Tomorrow night on
Muchmusic, "The New Music" show is doing a segment on the "Canadian
Music Week" concerts that took place.  They didn't show Ivan in the
commercial, but they might show a clip or something.... I think The New
Music airs at 9 PM (eastern).

That's all!

Colin
:)




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:55:55 EST
From: ADTooley <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Public or Private?

All I can  say about this public/private debate is:

I wish Ivan himself would let us know what HE wants so it would be a decision
made by *him* since this is *his* show!!!!!

That's all.

That decision should be left up to Ivan so we'll see what he wants when he
gets back to us about the show.

Angie


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:27:49 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Public or Private?

In a message dated 98-03-23 17:58:30 EST, [e-mail] writes:

>
>  All I can  say about this public/private debate is:
>
>  I wish Ivan himself would let us know what HE wants so it would be a
> decision
>  made by *him* since this is *his* show!!!!!
>
>  That's all.
>
>  That decision should be left up to Ivan so we'll see what he wants when he
>  gets back to us about the show.
>
>  Angie
>
that would true enough, angie....i have mixed feelings re: that statement, but
i have to at least respect it :/

*lightbulb flashing o'er head*

if i recall correctly, francis made the mention of the possibility of a second
show......

here's a thought.......if booked,why not give the SECOND show the option for a
public event? i am not saying this to dictate; just to bring to light another
possibility that may serve to solve one or more of the dilemnas that have been
discussed....

- -C-


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:44:06 EST
From: ADTooley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Show

On 3/23/98, Charlotte wrote:

<<i originally was going to make this a private reply, but what i came up with
had enough valid points as to see if anyone else is in agreeance over....


 yes,i grudgingly admit that it should be Ivan's decision in the end..BUT...

 A)  he has been approached with the express understanding that the list
wanted to book him for a PRIVATE affair....

 B)  if this winds up turning into a public affair, i do not think that the
list would want, nor be expected to, pick up any responsibility for such silly
things as liability insurance for the venue as well as
attendees....furthermore, if Ivan decides he wants a public show, then perhaps
he should consider going through a proper promoter and doing some of the
legwork himself re: venues/insurance and such, instead of leaving all the
details to his `grunt' fans......damn, i know that sounded cold, but  (should
something like this occur) i wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that there
would be something almost `Crawford-esque' about it all....if i want to see a
public show then i would simply wait untill MWH tours in support of their next
album...

 the original intent of this show was to be a private affair between the
artist/band and the list, as well as whomever list members would choose to
bring with them....i rather like the idea of going to a small, intimate
setting, being able to meet and greet some of the faces behind the handles,
seeing a nice tight-but-relaxed set, and just enjoying the evening without
having to worry about gang wars, or pastel punks puking all over and ripping
out fixtures, or clueless folx without something better to do that evening
razzing on something about the show....

 the prospect of turning this into a public event is bound to bring more
trouble than the list members who are arranging this, as well as those members
that are called upon to donate funds towards the fees, should be expected to
shoulder...

 okie, that's enough outta my mouth for now...  :/

 -C->>

These are some good points ...  insurance, legalities, extra ticket sales,
extra footwork, more headaches ---
Originally my vision was that of a small, intimate show with the members of
the list, their family/friends, and the band, not a full-fledged public show.
I want to keep it simple, I really do.  Too much complexity will spoil the
whole thing.  All the bickering going on lately within the list attests to
that!

Angie


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:04:39 -0500 (EST)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Let Ivan decide...

Yes, Angie, I believe you are correct.
It is proper that Ivan should be allowed to decide.

Myke

P.S. And should Ivan decide for "private" over "public" - who among us
     should then be the first to cry "Elite!"?


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:45:27 EST
From: Aerechui <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) re show-  chain reaction

goin thru your world like a chain reaction........

please take a few moments to read what some of us have written, and what  all
of us read when we check our mailboxes:

<<I don't
>think that this concert should be open to anyone else but the hats list
>members.  This may sound harsh, but the majority of true diehard hats fans
>have found this list.  If you're not a true diehard hats fan, then you've
>probably never even tried to find as much info on hats, therefore, never
>stumbling upon the list.  Did that make sense?>>

him then.  Worry not about what other people are doing, worry about
yourself.  Besides, Francis has demonstrated his leadership in this, I'm
sure this discussion is null and void.  I AM being elitist:  I couldn't care
less about the others, and I don't want them there.  For the first time, a
concert along the lines of "An Evening With [insert band name here]" will be
just that: quiet and intimate.  No following star to hotel, no freezing at
stage entrance, nothing, no fighting to sneak backstage.  If we are being
elitist, and you don't like it, it is the same as that whole boot
discussion: don't buy one, don't go to the concert.  'Nuff said.

Cordially,
Rush


publishing the results of the concert, the related carnage and the ensuing
aftermath  *ah, the HORROR!*, shouldn't be a problem...just don't promote the
darn thing, eh? ;)

- -C-


uh...tom...i don't think that the current dispute is about who's in charge of
this show...that is not the isssue right now...the topic of discussion is
deciding whether or not to make this a public (instead of a private)
event.....


*dusting off soapbox*

all-RIGHTY, then.....

okie..yes, eric i realize that this is not an event of MAMMOTH proportions to
most humanoids (though it is to ME!); but then let me ask you, what purpose
would publicizing the show bring?...if this is a closed affair, wouldn't that
have the equivilent of thumbing our noses (ie: conveying an expression of the
very sort of `eliteism' (sp) that has been brought up with much disdain in
recent emailings?) at the masses....and if this winds up being a public
affair, even though you may feel that there may not be such a demand for the
tickets outside of the list, what if there IS? claude himself said that the
majority of the group's fanbase isn't even ON the list...

secondly...i myself am not questioning francis & co.'s handling of the booking
of this show....he is wise enough to realise that part of the final decision
is to be as much of a democratic `coming-to-terms' among the list members as a
WHOLE (perhaps casting a vote, beingst this is turning into such a heated
debate) and, as far as i can see, that is exactly what is being
discussed....nowhere do i see anything about anyone considering assumption of
control over the arrangements or implying that they can do a better
job...francis himself has stated that he would like plenty of input, as he
wants to book something that is to the satisfaction of the list members; welp,
he's getting it:)

finally, as one of the individuals who will most likely be forking out a
decent sum towards the initial deposit/arrangements (for the record, this is
NOT cast in stone, yet, but i am being prepared for such a request) i
certainly would appreciate being able express my opinions/wishes re; this
fete...this does NOT, however, make me blind as to what my fellow listmembers
wishes are re: this matter..i may not be quite as vehement (sp) as some re:
the publicity/accessibility of tickets to this show, but i would like to be
able to state my viewpoints just the same, in a rational, nonthreatening and
constructive manner  :)

*may i have a drink of water, now?*

Charlotte



OK,
I have been sitting on the sidelines about this whole thing, and I have to
put in my 2 cents.  Despite the fact that myself and everyone else on this
list would DIE for tickets to the show, doesn't mean that the whole world
will be clamoring for them.  This isn't U2 or the Stones people.  Lets be
realistic.  I don't see any problem publicizing the show a little bit.  And
let Francis deal with it and if he wants help, he will solicit it.  It seems
as if everyone is a 'wannabe' concert promoter all of a sudden.

<i originally was going to make this a private reply, but what i came up with
had enough valid points as to see if anyone else is in agreeance over....


 yes,i grudgingly admit that it should be Ivan's decision in the end..BUT...

 A)  he has been approached with the express understanding that the list
wanted to book him for a PRIVATE affair....

 B)  if this winds up turning into a public affair, i do not think that the
list would want, nor be expected to, pick up any responsibility for such silly
things as liability insurance for the venue as well as
attendees....furthermore, if Ivan decides he wants a public show, then perhaps
he should consider going through a proper promoter and doing some of the
legwork himself re: venues/insurance and such, instead of leaving all the
details to his `grunt' fans......damn, i know that sounded cold, but  (should
something like this occur) i wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that there
would be something almost `Crawford-esque' about it all....if i want to see a
public show then i would simply wait untill MWH tours in support of their next
album...

 the original intent of this show was to be a private affair between the
artist/band and the list, as well as whomever list members would choose to
bring with them....i rather like the idea of going to a small, intimate
setting, being able to meet and greet some of the faces behind the handles,
seeing a nice tight-but-relaxed set, and just enjoying the evening without
having to worry about gang wars, or pastel punks puking all over and ripping
out fixtures, or clueless folx without something better to do that evening
razzing on something about the show....

 the prospect of turning this into a public event is bound to bring more
trouble than the list members who are arranging this, as well as those members
that are called upon to donate funds towards the fees, should be expected to
shoulder...

 okie, that's enough outta my mouth for now...  :/

 -C->>

These are some good points ...  insurance, legalities, extra ticket sales,
extra footwork, more headaches ---
Originally my vision was that of a small, intimate show with the members of
the list, their family/friends, and the band, not a full-fledged public show.
I want to keep it simple, I really do.  Too much complexity will spoil the
whole thing.  All the bickering going on lately within the list attests to
that!

Angie

all in response to this innocent honest question:
Hi,
Please forgive my utter ignorance here. I am in the process of putting
together the next issue of LExicon mag and I seem to recall that there
is going to be some sort of show by Ivan soon. Can anyone fill me in on
this? I know I should have been reading the postings, but simply have
not had the time. I would love tomention it in the next issue (or if it
has already happened maybe someone has a quick review?)

Thanks
- -Dave Richards

PS- Any one seen Spins Top 42 Altrenative Novelty Hits? Safety Dance is
in there.

and here is the poor fellows response:
Sorry to cause a commotion about all of this.  I am not going to mention
the concert in the next issue. However, it would be nice to have a
review of the show should it go on. If there is anyone out there who
would like to see their stuff in print you can email me a review.  I
hope the show does come off as planned.
- -Dave Richards
Managing Editor
Lexicon

maybe now you see......
goin' thru your world like a chain reaction........


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------------------------------

End of hats-digest V2 #45
*************************