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hats-digest         Tuesday, January 20 1998         Volume 02 : Number 024




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 17 Jan 98 15:35:00 +0000
From: "Wooldridge, Simon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) ... in the middle of a mystery

The song I think you`re referring to is The Whole Of The Moon by The
Waterboys, the only song which was quite a big hit (twice) for them in
the UK.

The guy who fronts World Party (can`t remember his name because I don`t
particulary like any of their stuff) was in The Waterboys at the time
this song was recorded.  I think he even co-wrote it with the frontman of
the Waterboys whose name, I think, is Mike Scott.

The style of this song is definately rockish but with a touch of Irish in
it.  One of those songs that lives on long after everyone has forgotten
about the band.
Sound familiar?

Si Wooldridge

Senior Systems Equipment Engineer
Lucent Technologies

[e-mail]

<snip>
the other day on NPR, I heard this song on world cafe, and the chorus
went something like ".....blah, blah blah...the hole in the moon....", it
was a long song and it sounded like the group James, though I am not
sure.  Can anybody help me with this, I really dug the song, but "hole in
the moon" may not be the title.  Thanks.
<snip>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:19:08 -0500
From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) designing the cover

I am very excited about trying my hand at designing the possible cover for
the fans' covers-CD.  There are some things I'd like to ask first:

1.  What will be the name of it?

2.  What colour scheme is desired?

3.  Can we use the logo and "Men Without Hats" layout (I mean the way the
name was designed)?  If not, could we use the logo from the stickers Francis
made?

4.  Which photos can we use?

5. Do I also design the pages in the bookleta nd if so, how many pages?
What goes in them?

6.  Which format?  I work in PhotoShop and also have access to Fractal
Design Painter.  high quality JPG?  TIFF? E-mail or print submission?
300dpi or higher or lower?


I may be a little ahead of myself here but I am so excited!  Questions 3 and
4 are really important.  Since this CD will be sold in stores, copyright
laws MUST be obeyed no matter what.  Designing a fan-produced bootleg is one
thing, but when you sell them in stores to the public, someone who owns the
copyrights you are using have every right to their use.


Hm...I guess we need the tracklisting first :)

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:30:36 -0500
From: Dave Mattingly <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) designing the cover

Danielle asks:
>1.  What will be the name of it?

How about:

Ivan Ho!
Men Without Covers
Hat Check
Hat Trick
Old Hat
High Hat


Dave Mattingly




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:45:27 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) ... in the middle of a mystery

In a message dated 98-01-16 17:47:55 EST, [e-mail] writes:

> >the same girl in the video (PGTW, Moonbeam).
>  >real band members or just actresses/models.
>
>  The girl in the video was an actress that couldn't quite get her
>  choreography right. You can see Ivan directing her where to go next in a
>  few parts of the video. :)
>
>  Dave Mattingly
>
>
>
>
>
just saw it for the first time last night! *thanks, tom!!?!*
my sides still ache from laughing so hard.....although methinx i was laughing
more at stefan's *:)* get-up.....roflmfao!!!

ttyl,
Charlotte:):):)


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:55:56 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Generations And Stuff

In a message dated 98-01-17 07:20:06 EST, [e-mail] writes:

> Also, Tom, what was the source for the 1985 "Le Spectrum" concert video?
>  Did I not read from you early on that it was from a laserdisc?
>  I can't imagine that it would be because, with the frame counter in
>  the bottom right corner of the display, it would have never gone to
>  market that way.  I'm probably just imagining that I read a post of
>  yours that said so, but until I hear it from you one way or the other,
>  I'll have to believe that I did.
>
>  Myke
>
my guess would be that it was a working copy...*???*
i would agree with myke that it wouldnt've gone out to public in that
format...
but anyways....
as for that OR the demos OR the bootlegs....this really *IS* being made too
much out of...i really DO think that Ivan would've stopped this if he chose to
do so...if he hasn't any problems with *and i quote him...somewhat* 'digital
pirates', then i honestly do not think he would have a problem with this, as
these cd's are only being printed and shipped at cost, nobody is making any
$$$ on these items what-so-ever, and it is a great way to preserve all the
material for the future:)  and it honestly shows that there are people who
care a great deal for the band and the music and want to do everything in
their power to preserve as much of it as possible....

My $0.02 worth, with some change,
Charlotte


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:01:36 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) designing the cover

In a message dated 98-01-17 16:35:45 EST, [e-mail] writes:

> Danielle asks:
>  >1.  What will be the name of it?
>
>  How about:
>
>  Ivan Ho!
>  Men Without Covers
>  Hat Check
>  Hat Trick
>  Old Hat
>  High Hat
>
>
>  Dave Mattingly
>
D'OH!!?!


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:49:15 -0500 (EST)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Generations and Stuff

Tom, when you say "1st generation" are you meaning to say that these
CDs are made from the actual masters or from 1st gen copies of those
masters?  I never have really understood which gen is the real 1st gen.

It would make sense that the video concert was not from laserdisc
'cuz who would have made it and how?

Myie
 oops/ Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:39:21 +0000
From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Generations and Stuff

LORD HASENPFEFFER wrote:
>
> Tom, when you say "1st generation" are you meaning to say that these
> CDs are made from the actual masters or from 1st gen copies of those
> masters?  I never have really understood which gen is the real 1st gen.

Usually, 1st generation is a direct copy of the master. A generation is
something "generated" by something else. In french, the master (in sound
or in movie) is often refered to as the "copie zero". So master is
before one.

Take care

Claude


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:27:37 -0500
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Generations and Stuff

> Tom, when you say "1st generation" are you meaning to say that these
> CDs are made from the actual masters or from 1st gen copies of those
> masters?  I never have really understood which gen is the real 1st gen.
>
> It would make sense that the video concert was not from laserdisc
> 'cuz who would have made it and how?

OK.  here it is:

Each track is recorded individually, different channels for different
insruments, vocals etc, in the studio.

Then usually, It is MIXED onto a master studio tape , which becomes the 1st
gen master tape.

What I am telling you is that the ROY demos never had the MASTER TAPE.

They mixed the tracks DIRECTLY to the demo cassettes, just a few of them.

They did this so that the tape will sound as good as possible when the
record co.  play them.   The only downside, is that the recording won't
last too long.
Its a one time thing........  each ROY demo cassette is taking the place of
what should be vacuum sealed master tapes.

This is why we are VERY lucky, that we have what we have.  There may be
none left that sound as good as ours.

Tom
[e-mail]



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:32:53 -0500
From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) designing the cover

>Ivan Ho!

Not Ivan "Ho".  too much reference to Superbadgirls.  ;) tee hee.  by the
way, they've been playing that song a lot on the radio (Toronto)!


>Hat Check

I like this one.  But needs some work.

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:33:05 EST
From: BDay0000 <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Naming the Tribute....

How about "Ideas From All..."

Brad Day
Atlanta, GA


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:41:15 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Naming the Tribute....

okie, here's one....

how about "The Great Ones, Remembered" ?
*shrug*


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:46:24 EST
From: CDcollectr <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) hats tribute title

how does this one sound?

Hats Off - A Tribute To Men Without Hats

ray


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:00:58 -0500 (EST)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Generations and Stuff

Tom,

OK, so in this case you're considering the actual multi-track master to
be the "copie zero" generation which was then mixed directly to standard
audiocassettes (1st gen) and CD #5 was made from one of those actual
original "mixdown masters"???  If so, incredible!

Am I also correct to assume that both the 1980 demos and the 1984
rehearsals have this same story to tell?

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:04:17 -0500 (EST)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) hats tribute title

Hats Off...

Actually I like that better than my earlier suggestion!

This one's got my vote.

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 11:08:39 +0100
From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Generations and Stuff

>Tom,
>
>OK, so in this case you're considering the actual multi-track master to
>be the "copie zero" generation which was then mixed directly to standard
>audiocassettes (1st gen) and CD #5 was made from one of those actual
>original "mixdown masters"???  If so, incredible!

>
>Myke

fyi myke, the multi-track is not the master - the final mixed tune tape
is the original master...

mike
owner of a recording studio, london



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:24:20 -0500
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) 1980 demos vs. 1984

> Tom,
>
> OK, so in this case you're considering the actual multi-track master to
> be the "copie zero" generation which was then mixed directly to standard
> audiocassettes (1st gen) and CD #5 was made from one of those actual
> original "mixdown masters"???  If so, incredible!
>
> Am I also correct to assume that both the 1980 demos and the 1984
> rehearsals have this same story to tell?

No.  Not the same story.   You have probably noticed that the ROY demos
sound much much better than the FolkIII demos.

The FolkIII rehearsal tape is a different story altogether.  Because it is
just a rehearsal tape, it was recorded on a really cheap consumer type
tape, as a practice tape, I think.   This IS the first recording session of
FOLK III though.
Its really cool because this was the first time these songs were recorded
in the studio, a few months before the final mix which is on the 2fer.
    This was with cheap equipment, unlike the 1980 demos which are supposed
to sound as good as possible.

The 1984 rehearsal tape's only purpose, was so that the band can take their
"regular" cassettes home to listen to, and then decide later what to change
before going into the studio for the REAL thing, with the REAL equipment.

Which kinda makes this the closest thing to FOLKIII demos, doesn't it?  :-)

I am not 100% sure about any of this, but this is what I was told.

Tom
[e-mail]



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:44:09 EST
From: JDivito334 <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan's concert

Hey !!!!

I'll give a call again to Ivan's manager this week for our private concert....
Everything should be in May or June.  I'm gonna try to get the participation
of Colin and Stephan, that will give a terrible sound to the show!!!!!

I'll let you know!

Francis


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:54:39 -0500 (EST)
From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Generations and Stuff

> the multi-track is not the master - the final mixed tune tape
> is the original master...

This is what I have always considered to be true.

So CD #5 is made from a (1st gen) copy of a ("copie zero") master
(audiocassette) that was mixed to directly from multi-track tape?

Myke


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:44:10 EST
From: JDivito334 <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH, oldies!!!!

People are talking about MWH old stufff, old demos,

But personally, I like also PGTW and 21st century.  Is there some demos???
Some shows??? SOMETHING!?!?!?

PEople are giving shit to Marc Durand, but he was the only one to give this
sound to the band between 1980 and 1986.  I know personally MArc Durand.  We
have to give him some credit for his work, not for the way he managed the
band.  Even if I dont like him very much, you have to know the guy before you
judge him.

Ciao

Francis


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:45:40 -0500
From: Charles Farnum <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) private concert

is any one planning on making a bootleg of the private concert for those
who will be unable to attend for one reason or another

whit


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:46:27 -0700
From: Charles Farnum <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:48:24 -0500

i am going to paris in late march if any one knows a record store where
you can pick up the 2fer and would like me to do so for them please
notify as quickly as possible
    i also need to know the price

whit


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:46:41 -0500
From: "Tom Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) private concert

> is any one planning on making a bootleg of the private concert for those
> who will be unable to attend for one reason or another

Oh yes yes!
I think Francis has even included that in the contract, in fact.  We may
have 4 people taping at once , video and audio, just in case.

Tom
[e-mail]



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 19:33:44 +0100
From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) CD4 is nearly here...

NEWS NEWS and more NEWS :)

For people who've been bugging Tom Norman about CD4, well I've just
finished mastering it!  The track listing is:

(cleaned up BBC recording of a hats gig)
1. intro
2. ideas for walls
3. where do the boys go
4. safety dance
5. mothers opinion
6. security
7. modern dancing

8. moonbeam (house is a home)
9. moonbeam '98 (moose's mac mix)
10. winnebago song

the mitsou tapes
11. terre des hommes
12. a funny place (the world is)

People may wonder what track 9 is - well, lets just say that you'll only
ever hear is on this CD and at the time of writing this email (7:20pm
18th Jan 98) its only 1 hour old.  yup, I got bored and created an
"exclusive mix" for the Hats List...

Listen out for Tom's postings on CD4's availability.  Enjoy, its worth
the wait!


mike aka moose  }:-)
pigpen digital, london



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:24:03 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Merry Christmas

    I have returned to Ithaca College after a long x-mas break. I came
back last night and what did i see, but 194 total messages from MWH
mailing list. I GUESS it was like a present...only presents are fun to
look at and to open...however i was shocked to see alot of bickering about
a Mr. Somebody. Well, I have other topics which I would like to discuss.

    I went to Montreal over the break (I live in New Jersey), and
avoided the ice storm by 1 day. I stayed up there for 4 days. Now, I'm not
sure which devotees are from Mont-Real (I learned that) but I'll tell you
a couple of things I did.

    I went by myself and stayed at the Auberge de Junesse on Mackay. I
visited the Biodome, Olympic Park, IMAX, and climbed Mount Royal. I went
to Crescent street at night and walked around Old Montreal, and visited
the ports, and memorized Saint Catherine's. I picked up Sideways, In the
21st Century, the Spell, PGTW, Greatest Hats...all of which are impossible
to get in the states.

    Anyway, I was wondering who on this list lives up there so maybe
this summer when I go again, I could bum a stay for a night. I only
require clean sheets and a hot meal every night (I kid of course). Let me
know.

Collin (no, not that one)



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:41:42 +0000
From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Generations and Stuff

LORD HASENPFEFFER wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> OK, so in this case you're considering the actual multi-track master to
> be the "copie zero" generation which was then mixed directly to standard
> audiocassettes (1st gen) and CD #5 was made from one of those actual
> original "mixdown masters"???  If so, incredible!

Actually, if what Tom says is thrue, it is better than that. The
multi-track master is not copie zero. A mix done directly from the
multitrack master will be the copie zero. Usually, multi copies are made
from the original Mixdown masters (or copy zero). So in my book, what
Tom is holding IS A ZERO COPY. The copies he's sending to list members
are first generation (like domestic CD incidently). You have to
understand that 1st generation doesn't mean quality, it just mean that
it comes directly from copie zero. On the other hand, a copie zero is
priceless, even if there were several of them, each one is unique, with
is own personality. So... wow!

> Am I also correct to assume that both the 1980 demos and the 1984
> rehearsals have this same story to tell?

I have no idea about that...

Take care

Claude


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:44:40 +0000
From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Generations and Stuff

mike wrote:
>
> fyi myke, the multi-track is not the master - the final mixed tune tape
> is the original master...

Said in a more effective way, exactly what I tried to explain in my
incredible english writing...

Sorry for the possible confusion...

CLaude


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:58:30 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) private concert

hi hatters....
someone else had posted something re: this concert earlier today, but i
accidentally erased it:/
whoever sent it (i think it was angie, but could be wrong!) please repost:/

ttyl,
Charlotte


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:12:04 +0000
From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) CD4 is nearly here...

mike wrote:
>
> NEWS NEWS and more NEWS :)
>
> For people who've been bugging Tom Norman about CD4, well I've just
> finished mastering it!  The track listing is:
>
> the mitsou tapes
> 11. terre des hommes
> 12. a funny place (the world is)
>

Okay, one question (very sensible persons, delete the message quickly,
don't read it). Who makes decisions here? How come you have 2 songs from
Mitsou on that CD (very very easy to find in stores, still published)
and there is no trace of Je M'en Souviens, a song Ivan did with the
FrenchB and that is absolutely impossible to find in store (only 500 CDs
pressed, only for radio?????????????). Someone clarify this mystery...

Claude


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:06:30 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Merry Christmas

In a message dated 98-01-18 14:46:07 EST, [e-mail] writes:

>     I went by myself and stayed at the Auberge de Junesse on Mackay. I
>  visited the Biodome, Olympic Park, IMAX, and climbed Mount Royal. I went
>  to Crescent street at night and walked around Old Montreal, and visited
>  the ports, and memorized Saint Catherine's. I picked up Sideways, In the
>  21st Century, the Spell, PGTW, Greatest Hats...all of which are impossible
>  to get in the states.
>
kewl beanz!   i have to ask whether or not the Auberge is a hotel, or a
hostel....as i'd like my Montreal leg of the trip to last at least 7-10 days,
and i am also having to venture to toronto as well as having to lug about a
portfolio along with the rest of my luggage,  i will most likely be looking
into a hotel (unless someone is able to put me up) ...Colin, would you  be so
kind as to post the rates, please?

thanks again and ttyl,
Charlotte


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:09:31 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Generations and Stuff

In a message dated 98-01-18 16:46:36 EST, [e-mail] writes:

> mike wrote:
>  >
>  > fyi myke, the multi-track is not the master - the final mixed tune tape
>  > is the original master...

IE: another name for the multi-track is a 'working copy', right?

- -C-


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:01:09 EST
From: Nikolai81 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) private concert

In a message dated 98-01-18 13:45:19 EST, you write:

> is any one planning on making a bootleg of the private concert for those
>  who will be unable to attend for one reason or another
>
>  whit

Why make a bootleg if it's a private concert? Why don't we ask if we could do
it professionally? I know I wouldn't mind seeing a nicely-produced video of
one of the best concerts we'll ever see ;)

- --Nick


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:25:20 EST
From: HarpiChick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) private concert

In a message dated 98-01-18 17:01:19 EST, [e-mail] writes:

> hi hatters....
>  someone else had posted something re: this concert earlier today, but i
>  accidentally erased it:/
>  whoever sent it (i think it was angie, but could be wrong!) please repost:/
>
>  ttyl,
>  Charlotte
>
p.s.: this was AFTER whit's posting:)


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:34:28 -0800
From: "Kajjia Goria" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Quiz v2.00

Hmmm...  there hasn't been to good of a turn out for my 2nd MWH quiz.  It's
a name that tune game.  Come on folks, get on the bandwagon, test your
skills!  Two people have tried it and I am sure they loved it.  Thanx you
two people.  Catch ya all later!

Aaron Gitlin
http://kajjia.home.ml.org
http://menwohats.home.ml.org
Security, everyone feels better with...




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 16:36:06 +0100
From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) re: CD4 tracks

>Okay, one question (very sensible persons, delete the message quickly,
>don't read it). Who makes decisions here? How come you have 2 songs from
>Mitsou on that CD (very very easy to find in stores, still published)
>and there is no trace of Je M'en Souviens, a song Ivan did with the
>FrenchB and that is absolutely impossible to find in store (only 500 CDs
>pressed, only for radio?????????????). Someone clarify this mystery...
>
>Claude
Well, as I made CD4 I'm suppose I'd better answer you Claude...

It may be easy for you to find the Mitsou CD but outside of Canada I'm
sure its darn near impossible to get hold of - here in England record
shops just laugh!!  Anyways, all these tracks (apart from the moose mix)
were sent to me when I originally asked for all Hats stuff quite a few
months ago now - they're been lying around my studio waiting for a few
hours to edit and cut to CD master for Tom to reproduce...  And as for
'Je M'en Souviens" - well, if I had a copy of that then that would've
been on the disk for sure...

Hopefully this answers your valid question...


Mike
Pigpen Digital, London

PS ...and no mention of the exclusive Moonbeam remix... Interesting
thought process Claude!



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 16:36:05 +0100
From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Generations and Stuff

>> mike wrote:
>>  >
>>  > fyi myke, the multi-track is not the master - the final mixed tune tape
>>  > is the original master...
>
>IE: another name for the multi-track is a 'working copy', right?

well I suppose it could be called that, but I personnaly use a hard disk
recording system on a Macintosh to get things 'up and running", then
transfer that stuff to digital tape which is then mixed and transferred
to DAT...   I'm sure it could get worse...

Mike }:-)



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:38:55 EST
From: PTKOLB <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) ... in the middle of a mystery

In a message dated 98-01-16 17:43:24 EST, you write:

<< speaking of mysteries...

 the other day on NPR, I heard this song on world cafe, and the chorus went
 something like ".....blah, blah blah...the hole in the moon....", it was a
 long song and it sounded like the group James, though I am not sure.  Can
 anybody help me with this, I really dug the song, but "hole in the moon" may
 not be the title.  Thanks. >>

Could this have been "Whole of the Moon"  by the Waterboys.  An excellent song
but I'm not sure how much it sounds like James.  If it had some strings, it
may have been.  I could put the Waterboys track into realaudio for you if you
want to give it a listen...


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------------------------------

End of hats-digest V2 #24
*************************