ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hats/archive/hats.9709

Internet Message Format | 1997-10-01 | 270KB

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers....  TOUCHDOWN!!!
Date: 01 Sep 1997 00:40:23 -0400 (EDT)


Yes, we did it!!!!!

Thanks to everybody, we finally got enough people to order the famous,
incredible, marvelous, Men Without Hats stickers.

I will send a private mail to everybody within a few days to tell you how we
will proceed.

Thanks to everybody.

Francis


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From: Josefsson Per-Johan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: Sideways
Date: 01 Sep 1997 10:14:15 +0200


Lost Forever is my fave mwh track.....
The rest of the CD is also very good.

/PJ.

> I also don't thoroughly like the album but I don't think it deserves the
> bad reputation it has.  Yes it is a fairly raucous album as whole, but
> there are a couple songs there that I actually like.  Sideways and Fall
> Down Gently are pretty cool...  Kenbarbielove is ok and I am the Walrus
> is...  an experience...


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: Sideways
Date: 01 Sep 1997 12:09:24 -0400 (EDT)


I agree with you.

You have to listen Sideways with overviews ears.!!!

The ones I like the most are Lost forever, In the meadow.

Ciao

Francis


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Greatest Hats
Date: 01 Sep 1997 12:11:02 -0400 (EDT)


Same thing for me!

I went to Plattsburg (U.s.) for shopping and I found ROY cassette at 3.99$
 It was not the original, it was a reprint by MArc Durand with extra tracks.

So I bought it!

Ciao

Francis


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From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: Re: (hats) Making whoopie?
Date: 01 Sep 1997 11:33:48 -0500 (CDT)


like, I don't really know either, but I thought, perhaps it is about the
position one usually has for making love, and that "sideways" stare one does
to look into a lovers eyes after sex... and you're both just gazing into
each others eyes and smiling ever so gently. (geeze how sugarcoated, i think
i made my self nausas! ha ha! Whatever, here's to LOVE and the making of LOVE!
I still think "goodmorning" off of sgt.pepper's would be a great song for
Ivan as would the Carousel song by Joni Mitchell. Later, Willy boy
>
>On Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:54:21 -0500 (CDT) [e-mail] (will
>finn) writes:
>
>>...and here's to you SIDEWAYS! (and just what does that imply? ha
>>ha...here
>>we go again, hey, is that church lady over there? ha ha!!!)
>
>
>Ok Will...I'll bite...just what <does> "Here's lookin at you sideways..."
>imply?
>
>Rod



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From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: Re: (hats) Greatest Hats
Date: 01 Sep 1997 11:42:03 -0500 (CDT)


you know it really kill's me that I didn't scarf up ROY on tape when I saw
them them in the bargain bins here at Walgreens for get this, 2 for $1.00,
that's fifty freaging cents ea!!!!! I did buy like 4 of them and gave 3
away... this was some time ago, like early 90's!!! I didn't buy more cause I
thought I'd get it on cd (eventually!!! ha ha!) boy was that the longest
wait or what!!!-will
>
>Same thing for me!
>
>I went to Plattsburg (U.s.) for shopping and I found ROY cassette at 3.99$
> It was not the original, it was a reprint by MArc Durand with extra tracks.
>
>So I bought it!
>
>Ciao
>
>Francis



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From: [e-mail] (Timothy RE Manners)
Subject: (hats) 3CD Playlist
Date: 01 Sep 1997 10:41:15 -0700


I know I'm behind the times a little, but can someone email me the track
listing for the bootleg 3 CD set?

Also, is anyone willing to copy their bootleg set onto audio cassette for
those of us who are more concerned about at least hearing the Freeways EP
and other tracks than the quality at which we hear them!!!  I would
gladly mail blank tapes or cash to anyone who could kindly copy their
discs and make a fellow fan who would eventually love the Bootleg set as
soon as someone can make it.

Write to me directly with info please,

Tim Manners


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From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) looking at you sideways
Date: 01 Sep 1997 13:18:17 -0700


Hello.

I don't know if this makes a difference, but I'm also from Canada (as is
Ivan) and I know Canadian and American expressions sometimes differ, eh.
But in Canada when you say "he looked at you sideways" it means he looked
at you as if you were insane, or from another planet.  As in seriously
questioning what you are saying or doing.  Or wondering what you are up to.
There is also a sense of judgement implied, as opposed to awe or simple
curiousity.  It is kind of offensive, like saying "you are nuts!!"

So if you want to look at someone sideways, you kind of tilt your head to
one side, drop your jaw and go "?!Huh!?" in your mind.  It also helps to
kind of Billy Idol/Elvis sneer with your cheek and lips...

Rod
Los Angeles




>
>>...and here's to you SIDEWAYS! (and just what does that imply? ha
>>ha...here we go again, hey, is that church lady over there? ha ha!!!)
>
>Ok Will...I'll bite...just what <does> "Here's lookin at you sideways..."
>imply?
>
>Rod
>




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From: [e-mail] (Jupiter Eight)
Subject: Re: (hats) Greatest Hats
Date: 01 Sep 1997 19:14:40 -0400


On Sun, 31 Aug 1997 23:17:34 -0700 (PDT) "Eric W. Soderblom"
<[e-mail]> writes:
>
>Hey all,
>Went to Circuit City yesterday to get printer paper.  Noticed CD's on
>my way
>out and decided to check them out. Well, looked in misc. M's and found
>what
>I thought was 'Collection' I almost flipped past it when I noticed the
>'Import' sticker.  It was Greatest Hats and it was $11.99.  I was
>pretty
>happy.  Not rare by any stretch of the imagination, but is is REAL
>cool to
>find MWH stuff that I don't have yet.  Thought that I would share my
>excitement.


I had a similar exciting experience last Wednesday.

I was down in an area of town that I'm not normally in to have a Japan
(the group) video converted into NTSC from PAL. While there, I noticed a
pawn shop a friend of mine had mentioned visiting frequently. I stepped
inside and noticed they had hundreds of used CD's. I found the Safety
Dance (Biomix) promo, as well as a few others I'd been hunting for some
time for (and what was really strange was they seemed to appear 10
seconds after I was thinking "I wonder if XXXXX CD is in here
somewhere?"). Then to top it off, as I head to the back of the store, a
PolyMoog keyboard complete with rare foot controller (I'm a Gary Numan
and vintage analog keyboard fanatic - and Gary Numan used this keyboard
extensively). I'd wanted one of these for the past couple of years but
they are going for $600-700. So the guy goes to turn it on and it doesn't
work. I offer him $75 instead of the $300 asking price and he says no
way. That second the phone rings - it's the other store...they say to
offer me $85...and the rest is history...

One lucky day for sure...I should have bought Lotto tickets.

Rod


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From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) looking at you sideways
Date: 01 Sep 1997 20:37:47 +0000


rod wrote:
>
> Hello.
>
> I don't know if this makes a difference, but I'm also from Canada (as is
> Ivan) and I know Canadian and American expressions sometimes differ, eh.
> But in Canada when you say "he looked at you sideways" it means he looked
> at you as if you were insane, or from another planet.  As in seriously
> questioning what you are saying or doing.  Or wondering what you are up to.
> There is also a sense of judgement implied, as opposed to awe or simple
> curiousity.  It is kind of offensive, like saying "you are nuts!!"
>
> So if you want to look at someone sideways, you kind of tilt your head to
> one side, drop your jaw and go "?!Huh!?" in your mind.  It also helps to
> kind of Billy Idol/Elvis sneer with your cheek and lips...
>
> Rod
> Los Angeles

I may be wrong, but I think Rod's interpretation is the good one...

Claude


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From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Scoop!
Date: 02 Sep 1997 00:32:21 +0000


Hi everybody!

For those who have miss the news; Ivan has compose the music for the
television series "Platinum". It will be aired later this year on CBC.
The series relate the story of a record company based in Montreal.

=C0 la prochaine...

Claude


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From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: Re: (hats) Your Own Private Ivan
Date: 02 Sep 1997 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT)




Brad read my thoughts.  I would like to know if there are any list
members who live in the New England/ New York/ Montreal area, who
are musicians who have played in bands.  Let's get an opening act
together for the show.  We will have rehearsal a couple times in
Montreal, before the concert.

I was talking with my brother from Maine this weekend, who is recording
on an independent label in NY called Watchtower Records.  He suggested
to me that he would like to open the show with his pop-folk band, and
include me on violin or mandolin.  I thought about it and decided if
there are any musicians on this list who would like to work with me
in Montreal, or even in Maine or Mass, we could probably put something
together that would be interesting for the othr list members to hear.
We could do 80's songs or something.

I play guitar, violin, and mandolin, and I sing lead & harmony. Would
anyone who can play keyboard, lead guitar, bass or drums like to
back me up?  At the very least, I could get together with a couple
of you and do something acoustic. Or I could get together with one
of you and do a guitar/keyboard/drum machine type of thing.

E-mail me if you like the idea and would like to contribute your
musicianship.  I wouldn't expect to get any kind of "big breaks",
though. You're better off sending out demos if you want a "big
break". But I bet we can put something together that sounds exce-
llent, will allow us to showcase our talent, give Ivan an idea of
how his music has inspired a younger set of musicians, and enter-
tain everyone.

We have from now until next June to practice.

Angie





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From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) [MAILER-DAEMON: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: xmisssion.com: host not found)]
Date: 02 Sep 1997 10:50:51 -0400 (EDT)




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    Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 10:39:59 -0400 (EDT)
    Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
    From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
    To: [e-mail]
    Subject: I SING LAST
    Reply-To: [e-mail]



    Personally, I think Quebec should continue to be a part of Canada
    but maintain its own identity as being very different from the rest
    of Canada. I don't think Quebec has anything to gain from secession
    except the scorn of the rest of Canada, who (I am told) want a united
    country.

    Anyway, "I Sing Last/Not For Tears" is one of the best songs Ivan ever
    wrote. It is a commentary on the abandonment of the ideals and con-
    sciousness of the sixties.

    "We've been told lies, we've been hearded around, taken for rides,
    told that this is the one"  (politics of the 60's during the war)

    "We've learned all the steps, and where do they lead, right back to
    zero..."  (many people devoted years of their lives fighting injus-
    tice and righting wrongs, and yet wars continue to be fought, etc.)

    "Making history as we open our eyes" (the entire movement)

    "And no-one's quite sure so we improvise" (there was no real plan to
    follow - everyone just did what they thought would help, as uncon-
    ventional as some of those things were, like love-ins, etc.)

    "And wherever it leads us is wherever we'll go," (willingness to follow
    the movement to the end)

    "I'd dance forever if they'd let me..." (One man's willingness to carry
    the ideals for the rest of his life)

    "Wearing our hair up, in anger we cry, the revolution's dead it went
    out in style" (Long hair was part of the "uniform" of the sixties'
    youth movement. The styles changed when people's ideals shifted
    from world to self in the 70's. For many people not completely de-
    voted to the cause, they changed when styles & tastes changed, making
    the movement as a whole, shrink.)

    "Time has come for each of us to decide to follow blindly or to step
    out of line/ the party is over, it has been for years, let's use the
    water to wash up, not for tears" (willingness to hold on to those ideals
    even though the movement as a whole is no longer united as it once was)

    "It seems such a pity/ it seems we had the same dream" (world peace)
    "And thinking of things past, you" (the folk singers of the 60's and/
    or the protesters of the 60's) sang first, I sing last (a one-man
    tribute to the good things people stood for in the 60's, and a
    personal conviction to carry on the torch.)

    Remember that "Folk of the 80's III" has a central theme - tying the
    consciousness of the 60's in to the 80's. Instead of acoustic guitars
    and banjos, there are electronic instruments. Instead of checkered
    shirts, there is leather now. The central theme is working toward
    a unified world in peace and love, within the setting of the 80's.

    Angie


    --KAA16454.873211202/osfn.org--






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From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) sideways...and then
Date: 02 Sep 1997 09:36:32 +0000


After I heard this the first time I was so mad at MWH. It made me
very very sad. I took the CD (that I had to get as a import and
bought for $22) and sold it for $7 a week later.

As far as I am concerned I dont want to support anybody that writes
lyrics like that.

-Rich

> Okay yooze guys...you're forcing me to look silly here, but in my my best
> Charlie Chan accent "In the song KENBARBIELOVE, the second paragraph reads,
> ..i've had jesus christ on the bathroom wall with dayglo worms crawling up
> his balls" now I ask you how that doesn't conjure up a disturbing image, I


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (Fwd) (hats) CONCERT
Date: 02 Sep 1997 08:23:30 +0000


>Let's not worry about what is going to be on Ivan's set list!

When you are talking ticket prices of up to $100 each, I think the
set list is not to be disregarded.

I suggest that we make two lists.  One list would contain our
requests from the current CD.  The other list would contain our
favorite MWH classics.  The most requested songs could then be chosen
from these lists.  At the very least, Ivan would know what his fans
most crave and it would take the burden off of him to try and guess
what we want to hear.  Of course he would be free to make additions
and deletions to the list, but it would be a good starting point for
him.


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From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) "Dreaming of you Sideways. . . ."
Date: 02 Sep 1997 12:14:48 -0500


Don't ask me why, but I had a dream about Sideways last might.  (No,
really!)  I dreamt that I was in a dark room, talking to my grandmother
who was in the next room (which, was, incindentally, well-lit).  There
was a little radio at the threashhold of the two rooms, playing to
itself.  Suddenly, it began to play the opening licks of Sideways, and I
became very exited.  Ivan was finally getting recognition for an album
which was never even released here!  But, then, I realized that the song
wasn't Ivan's Sideways, it was a cover -- and a bad one at that.  Soon,
the song turned into a collage/medly of many bad MWH covers.  Anyone
have any interpretations for me?  Or have I just spent too much time
with this maillist? :)

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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From: Harding Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (Fwd) (hats) CONCERT
Date: 02 Sep 1997 13:09:47 -0400


 I agree TOTALLY!! I think the set list will have ALOT to do with the
kind of turnout you get from everyone on the list...fair assessment or
not?


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David P. King" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) (hats) CONCERT
Date: 02 Sep 1997 11:29:27 -0600


>  I agree TOTALLY!! I think the set list will have ALOT to do with the
> kind of turnout you get from everyone on the list...fair assessment or
> not?

Absolutely.  I'm the first to admit that I LOVE the first three MWH albums,
like several songs from 21st Century, can't stand Sideways, and enjoy many
of the tracks from The Spell.  This is nothing personal against Ivan.  Just
because I don't care (as much) for his recent work doesn't mean that I
don't respect his body of work.  It also doesn't mean that I wouldn't
attend a local concert if that were to ever happen here in Utah or another
state closeby.

But the private concert that is being proposed (or negotiated if things are
going well) is something else entirely.  There are very few bands that I
would pay $100 to see even for a private concert.  If I couldn't be assured
that I would be hearing the music that I want to hear, it would definitely
not be worth it.

If I could be assured that the setlist would be mainly MWH tunes with a few
tracks from the new album, I perhaps would make more of an effort to commit
myself to being there.  But, I would suspect that it will be the other way
around or (at best) half and half.  I don't think that it would be worth
$100 plus airfare, etc.  Maybe this paints me as a lesser fan, but that's
just the way I feel.

--David
[e-mail]


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From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) (hats) CONCERT
Date: 02 Sep 1997 11:43:23 +0000


I Agree with you.

That would be cool if they came to Utah (I live down here in
orem/provo area) We should try and get them to come here :)

-Richard

> Absolutely.  I'm the first to admit that I LOVE the first three MWH albums,
> like several songs from 21st Century, can't stand Sideways, and enjoy many
> of the tracks from The Spell.  This is nothing personal against Ivan.  Just
> because I don't care (as much) for his recent work doesn't mean that I
> don't respect his body of work.  It also doesn't mean that I wouldn't
> attend a local concert if that were to ever happen here in Utah or another
> state closeby.


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From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) SONG LYRICS
Date: 02 Sep 1997 13:50:15 -0400 (EDT)





I would like to put in my 2 cents on the offensive lyrics discussion.

After "21st Century" I was unable to find any material by MWH here in
Mass or RI, so I assumed they had disbanded.  It was only recently,
when I discovered the Internet, that I found they have been recording
all along.  Therefore I never got the album "Sideways".  In fact, I
first heard the title song about a week ago when Myke mailed me a
videotape of MWH videos/shows. I kind of liked the song, although I
am of the opinion that Ivan's voice does not blend well with a heavy
guitar sound, and his image is too...different...for heavy metal or
industrial.  Anyway, I am glad I didn't get a copy of it when it first
came out because I would have been heartbroken to hear the lyrics that
somebody mentioned were offensive. For a band to have to write stuff
like that to get attention is a desperate act, and not only would I
have been sorely upset by the lyrical content, I would have been
shocked to discover how far deep in a pit MWH were at that time, to
resort to shock-value rather than truly uplifting, inspiring material
like they began with.  In fact, I probably would have been so out-
raged and offended that I probably would never have even associated
myself with anything even remotely related to MWH anymore.  This is
a strong statement coming from a person whose interests were (and
still are) heavily into MWH.

As it is now, I believe Ivan has somewhat redeemed himself with his
new material, which is more of what I would like to continue hearing
from him.

And I'm still glad that I never got a copy of "Sideways", especially
when it first came out.

(Although I would like to give it a good listen, at least once)


Angie






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) CONCERT
Date: 02 Sep 1997 13:31:20 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, all.  I understand your concern regarding what shoukd be played on
the set list for the private show. And as I have said before, I am sure
Ivan will be happy to honor those requests. However, I would like him
to play whatever he feels comfortable playing for us.  I'm sure it
will include a healthy dose of MWH music, though, which I know most,
if not all, of you would like to hear.

Francis, could you put up a list of everyone who has e-mailed you in
regards to show attendance, much like you are doing with the stickers?
This way everybody knows what is going on, and we can all plan accor-
dingly.

Like I said before, the more people who show up, the lower ticket prices
will be.  Ivan gets around $3500 for a concert, I believe.  If we get
more than 35 people who want to go, tickets will be less than $100 per
person.  That is why, when you e-mail Francis, you must state how many
people you will bring if ticket prices were, say, $25. If we get a lot
of list members, friends of members, family of members, etc. prices will
go down significantly.  In fact, if we got 100 people it would result in
a big savings for you all.

I really want to keep this show private, too.  As long as we have 35
people who are willing to pay $100 per ticket, the show will remain
private.  Any less, and we may have to open it to the public. But I
doubt we'll get any less than that.

Angie




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "J.R. Bookwalter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) (hats) CONCERT
Date: 02 Sep 1997 11:37:58 -0800


>When you are talking ticket prices of up to $100 each, I think the
>set list is not to be disregarded.

Count me in as someone who doesn't care either way. I missed MWH back
when the "Pop Goes The World" tour passed through Cleveland and I don't
intend to make the same mistake twice. I happen to like most of SIDEWAYS
and I've been playing THE SPELL to death as well. Certainly I'd like to
hear some "classic" MWH as well, but as an "artist" (loose term, but I
direct horror features) with a fan following, I know how frustrating it
can become for people to constantly praise your early work, even when
your newer efforts are clearly superior technically, etc. I'm there
regardless of the set.


Regards,
J.R. BOOKWALTER

Visit Tempe Entertainment on the Web:
http://www.tempevideo.com


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Kriens <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Sideways lyrics controversy
Date: 02 Sep 1997 14:09:58 -0400


I took a critical listen to this last night and I'm pretty sure the
lyric is "...crawling up his palms."  It wouldn't make any sense (to me,
at least) to have them crawling up his balls, but having them crawl up
his palms (what with the nails for the crucifixion going through the
palms) makes some sense to me.  Of course my copy of Sideways doesn't
have a lyric sheet, so that's just my interpretation from listening. . .

-John

> > > Okay yooze guys...you're forcing me to look silly here, but in my my best
> > > Charlie Chan accent "In the song KENBARBIELOVE, the second paragraph reads,
> > > ..i've had jesus christ on the bathroom wall with dayglo worms crawling up
> > > his balls" now I ask you how that doesn't conjure up a disturbing image, I


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Re:  Sideways Lyrics
Date: 02 Sep 1997 15:01:08 -0500


We've been dicussing the lines "I've had Jesus Christ on the bathroom
wall/ With dayglo worms crawling up his balls/ Past two very different
pictures of my head" and how disgusting they are.  This I cannot
disagree with that: the lines are disgusting, but I believe they are
meant to be.  Someone (Francis?  Claude?) once suggested that this song
might be about a drug trip.  I feel that his interpretation is correct,
but I will go a step further:  I believe the song is about a person who
is disgusted with the drug life that he has been leading and, what's
more, he wants us to be just as disgusted with that lifestyle.  What
better way than to attack us where we live:  at our core, at our
beliefs.  Frankly, I think we were supposed to be offended, and I can't
fault the man for getting it right.  (Of course, I am wondering why no
one has mentioned offence at the lines "I got a virgin Mary, she's ten
feet tall/ And she lives at the end of a long green hall/ Doesn't wanna'
go to heaven, 'cause that's where her Daddy was sent" or "We were took
by surprise/ As we looked at the size/ Of the man who we all call Lord/
Just between you and me/  Well, there weren't much to see/ What with
helmet and blood-stained sword"  Why, especially is the "balls" refrence
so shaking?  Christ was, after all a man -- devine, perhaps, but
demontrably a man . . . )
And, not to prattle on too long (I know:  "too late")  but Angie was
talking this morning about the theme to ROY.  I doubt if anyone would
argue too heavily that each MWH album had a theme:  PGTW (Johnny and
Jenny were in that one quite a bit, weren't they?)  ... In the 21st
Century, ect.  Now, take the interpretatoin of the term Sideways from
yesturday (as in:  "Are you crazy?") and match this to the lyrics of the
title track:  "Took a trip inside your heart/ Has seen much better days/
And before we hit the right one/ Here's to you sideways".  I think that
this is the theme to Sideways:  we're on a trip, and hopefully we'll see
the world a bit differently on the other side. . . .

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) SONG LYRICS
Date: 02 Sep 1997 13:24:43 -0700 (PDT)



>
>
> I would like to put in my 2 cents on the offensive lyrics discussion.
>
<SNIP>
>
> Anyway, I am glad I didn't get a copy of it when it first
> came out because I would have been heartbroken to hear the lyrics that
> somebody mentioned were offensive. For a band to have to write stuff
> like that to get attention is a desperate act, and not only would I
> have been sorely upset by the lyrical content, I would have been
> shocked to discover how far deep in a pit MWH were at that time, to
> resort to shock-value rather than truly uplifting, inspiring material
> like they began with.

Sorry if I'm coming into this conversation late, but... what "offensive"
lyrics are we talking about here? I thought that "The Spell" (the actual
song) was what got everyone's feathers ruffled earlier this year.

Is there anything offensive on "Sideways"? If so, I must have missed it.

And please, when answering my question, include the actual lyrics, not
just the song title. And if you feel that you can't actually type out
the "bad" words, then use the good ol' asterisk mask (i.e. sh*t, f*ck,
etc.).

Don2
[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude Berthiaume <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan Concert
Date: 02 Sep 1997 16:40:38 -0400


Hi, I'm very interested in this concert idea, but I can't afford 100$ a =
ticket. I'm a 17 years old student and 100$ is about 2 months of =
allowance or half of what I made in the entire summer, could there be a =
student discount something like 25$ off???


                                            Simon


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude Berthiaume <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Sideways
Date: 02 Sep 1997 17:04:26 -0400


I found a CD of Sideways in a store at 26.99$ CAN (20$ US) and I'd like =
to know what you think of it, would I be a moronic looser to buy it at =
this price or to buy it at all?



                                        Simon


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude Berthiaume <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan Concert
Date: 02 Sep 1997 17:57:18 -0400


As I was readind Daniele Rossi's message and and idea flew thru my mind, =
we could do the concert the day of the St-Jean Baptiste, our St-Jean =
party!!! But we may have trouble getting more people. For the questioin =
about when to hold the concert, I think during or after the last week of =
may would be great 'cause may semester exam will be finished!



                                            Simon

P.S. My bro would like to go too, you can count him in!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fehnnik Fox <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Sideways Lyrics
Date: 02 Sep 1997 17:00:27 -0600


>I took a critical listen to this last night and I'm pretty sure the
>lyric is "...crawling up his palms."  It wouldn't make any sense (to me,
>at least) to have them crawling up his balls, but having them crawl up
>his palms (what with the nails for the crucifixion going through the
>palms) makes some sense to me.  Of course my copy of Sideways doesn't
>have a lyric sheet, so that's just my interpretation from listening. . .

I've checked my liner notes and the lyrics in question read:
<snip>
I've had Jesus Christ on the bathroom wall;
with dayglo worms crawling up his balls
<snip>



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Sideways
Date: 02 Sep 1997 23:04:13 UT


You would be moronic... Check out www.musicexpress.com or www.cdconnection.com
or www.cdnow.com.  One of the three should have it at about 1/2 that price...
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
Sent:    Tuesday, September 02, 1997 4:04 PM


I found a CD of Sideways in a store at 26.99$ CAN (20$ US) and I'd like =
to know what you think of it, would I be a moronic looser to buy it at =
this price or to buy it at all?



                                        Simon


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric W. Soderblom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan
Date: 02 Sep 1997 19:34:02 -0700 (PDT)


Hey-
I am watching the video from the trip to Montreal and Ivan said something
about perhaps opening for INXS on tour.  Any new news about this???????

-Eric



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) CONCERT
Date: 03 Sep 1997 09:37:02 +0200 (METDST)


Hi everybody,

the CONCERT issue is really getting exciting, WOW and HAIL to
those who initiated it.

If the concert took place in May or June 1998, my wife and I
would seriously consider to come from Germany to attend it and
meet you all. It had to fit our major time schedule, of course,
as we might like to attach a short holiday trip, but it's
possible at last.

ALL THE BEST & KEEP GOING,

FRANK M. SPINATH


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) Ivan Concert discount
Date: 03 Sep 1997 00:39:36 -0700


Hello.

You worked all summer for $200 !!??

Who did you work for, Kathie Lee??!!

Might I inquire where you live.  Because unless you live in Montreal the
air fare is going to be WAY more than $100.

Best of luck.

Rod
Los Angeles



>Hi, I'm very interested in this concert idea, but I can't afford 100$ a
>ticket. I'm a 17 years old student and 100$ is about 2 months of allowance
>or half of what I made in the entire summer, could there be a student
>discount something like 25$ off???
>
>
>
>Simon




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) Sideways lyrics controversy
Date: 03 Sep 1997 00:39:33 -0700


Hey Men

I have the lyric sheet in my Sideways cd!!

and the 'offending ' body part is indeed "balls".

sadly.

But I do think we're over analysing. The song is about being drunken wreck
after "being out all night" on a spree , and "looking for a boozecan" to
start all over again.  The whole song is really unfocussed lyrically.   I
think (well, I hope) he's taking on a persona in this song.

Although, when I think of it, and the one time I did meet him (in Vancouver)...

late at night after a show

... well he seemed fairly chemically friendly.

I don't know.  I still think the album isn't as bad as it's general reputation.

Rod
Los Angeles


>I took a critical listen to this last night and I'm pretty sure the
>lyric is "...crawling up his palms."  It wouldn't make any sense (to me,
>at least) to have them crawling up his balls, but having them crawl up
>his palms (what with the nails for the crucifixion going through the
>palms) makes some sense to me.  Of course my copy of Sideways doesn't
>have a lyric sheet, so that's just my interpretation from listening. . .
>
>-John




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) concert
Date: 03 Sep 1997 09:04:28 +0000


If this is going to be a private concert for 35 of Ivan's closest
friends (us...which would be my preference), then a date must be
chosen and money collected IN ADVANCE before any contract is signed.
Things come up and people might not be able to make it at the last
minute, but the burden should not be put on those that do attend to
suddenly have to fork over more money to meet the terms of the
contract.

Secondly, the set list (or at least a portion of it) MUST be known in
advance in order to generate more ticket sales.  Some of you may be
willing to bow down at the altar of Ivan and subjugate yourselves to
the will of the master.  But to me, Ivan is just a guy who writes
music, some of which I like.  Yes, Ivan is an artist.  He is also a
businessman.  That's why they call it the music BUSINESS.  It's
supply and demand.  I support the artist by buying Ivan's CD's.  But
when it comes down to concert ticket, airfare, hotel, and restaurant
bills, we could easily be looking at a $500+ (U.S.) commitment (times
two if my wife comes).  If I the set mainly consists of ROY, FOTE,
and PGTW I will lay down that kind of cash.  If he's just going to
play the same songs he'd play at ANY of his appearances then there is
very little incentive for me to pay the extra money for a private
show.  Sure, I'd have the chance to meet him and talk to him.  But I
really can't think of anything to say that wouldn't sound stupid in
retrospect.

Me:  "Hey...I really like your music."
Ivan: "Thanks.  I really appreciate the support of my fans."
Me:  "I have all your CD's and have been a fan since Safety Dance."
Ivan: "That's great.  Thanks."
Me:  "Er...um...well...nice meeting you."
Ivan: "Thanks for coming.  Bye."

Okay, so maybe I'm not the best conversationalist.  :)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) sideways...and then
Date: 03 Sep 1997 17:13:06 UT


Lighten up, Ladies!!  It's just a song lyric, we all managed to live through
it, and everyone's OK...

Rush

-----Original Message-----
Sent:    Tuesday, September 02, 1997 4:37 AM


After I heard this the first time I was so mad at MWH. It made me
very very sad. I took the CD (that I had to get as a import and
bought for $22) and sold it for $7 a week later.

As far as I am concerned I dont want to support anybody that writes
lyrics like that.




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (Fwd) (hats) CONCERT
Date: 03 Sep 1997 17:19:30 UT


I sent this before but it must have gone Sideways...

Being a totally LF Capitalist, I agree completely with the below.  Although
the respect level for Ivan is much higher, this is no different than hiring a
band for a wedding or cotillion, and there one has TOTAL control over the
playlist.  I would like Ivan to be "happy", but we are PAYING him to do this
for us, if he would like to do it for free, that is his decision.  I think the
best idea would be to let him read the archive of this list and let him post
what he would like to play.  That way we are all on the same sheet of music.
Ha!

Rush

-----Original Message-----
Sent:    Tuesday, September 02, 1997 12:29 PM


>  I agree TOTALLY!! I think the set list will have ALOT to do with the
> kind of turnout you get from everyone on the list...fair assessment or
> not?

Absolutely.  I'm the first to admit that I LOVE the first three MWH albums,
like several songs from 21st Century, can't stand Sideways, and enjoy many
of the tracks from The Spell.  This is nothing personal against Ivan.  Just
because I don't care (as much) for his recent work doesn't mean that I
don't respect his body of work.  It also doesn't mean that I wouldn't
attend a local concert if that were to ever happen here in Utah or another
state closeby.

But the private concert that is being proposed (or negotiated if things are
going well) is something else entirely.  There are very few bands that I
would pay $100 to see even for a private concert.  If I couldn't be assured
that I would be hearing the music that I want to hear, it would definitely
not be worth it.

If I could be assured that the setlist would be mainly MWH tunes with a few
tracks from the new album, I perhaps would make more of an effort to commit
myself to being there.  But, I would suspect that it will be the other way
around or (at best) half and half.  I don't think that it would be worth
$100 plus airfare, etc.  Maybe this paints me as a lesser fan, but that's
just the way I feel.




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) sideways...and then
Date: 03 Sep 1997 11:49:29 +0000


I am just saying what I think and what I did. I am a very strong
christian and when ever I see or hear something like that it makes me
sick. it is taking the name of Jesus Christ in vain I believe.

-Rich

>
> Lighten up, Ladies!!  It's just a song lyric, we all managed to live through
> it, and everyone's OK...
>
> Rush


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: * <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) sideways...and then
Date: 03 Sep 1997 15:06:30 +0000


oh my god !!!!! (errr.. i mean gosh)
BALLS--- as in..........a man's  private parts ????!!!!!
How dare Ivan !!!!!
Im shocked !!!!!
(I think im starting to blush)
oh sweet jesus...oopps - oh mercy me !!!
(grin)

Im sure Ivan is lauphing his head off right now  (did i say head ???....
errr..  i meant face !!! )

PS Im glad we're all different- 'cause while using the "lords name in
vain" makes Rich "sick"-
the thought of lyrical censorship makes me ....sick.
Who knows- maybe Ivan had some sort of relationship with jesus christ in
a bathroom?..mm
-now that would be something to talk about!!!!

wolfgang


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) sideways...and then
Date: 03 Sep 1997 14:28:06 +0000


You know wolfgang you are a real jerk. Thanks for the insult.

Dont even start this censorship thing. Did I say that we should
Censor everything? No I did not. People can talk and sing about
whatever they want.

...... Why waste my time, BYE!

-Richard

> PS Im glad we're all different- 'cause while using the "lords name in
> vain" makes Rich "sick"-
> the thought of lyrical censorship makes me ....sick.
> Who knows- maybe Ivan had some sort of relationship with jesus christ in
> a bathroom?..mm
> -now that would be something to talk about!!!!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Bye
Date: 03 Sep 1997 14:34:40 +0000


You guys can talk about whatever you want. I am not saying stop
talking about what you are talking about (I am not trying to sensor
you wolfgang!). I am just saying that I am leaving cause I dont want
to read any more messages that make me mad.

Carry on without me.

See Ya ALL!!!!

-Richard Holdman
[Maybe later I might rejoin, but for now I can not take it]


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) sideways...and then
Date: 03 Sep 1997 13:42:57 -0700 (PDT)


Wow, can we Hatters get riled up about stuff!...

The way I see those lyrics is that Ivan maybe had some sort of "vision"
or "epiphany" that caused him to see things a little differently.

Some people have experiences involving religion that cause them to embrace
Jesus/Buddha/etc., but then some have revelations that turn them *away*
from the pious path.

Maybe Ivan was (or is) someone who believes, but questions. For instance,
my girlfriend (who is much more religious than I'll ever be) believes
that Jesus was just a man, but that he was indeed the Son Of God. He
wasn't superhuman, but a human who was born of divinity. It's a tricky,
subtle distinction, and it's taken me a long time to understand it, but
it finally clicked.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is this: Rich can feel repulsed by
those lyrics because he interprets them one way, which is very
literal. Wolfgang looks at those words and maybe gets a more
subjective impression from them. Me, they don't impact me one way or the
other... they fit within in the framework of the song. (I'm not an
atheist, but someone who believes there's *something* going on in the
universe... it's not necessarily Christian or Muslim or what have you,
but it's something bigger than us...)

And Rich, I hope your "BYE!" comment doesn't mean you're leaving the
mailing list...

ObIvan/MWH:
Perhaps if this concert thing happens, we can have a question-and-answer
session, and get Ivan to shed some light the MWH "mysteries":

    - Who was "Tony"?
    - What did you mean by the Christ comment in "Fall Down Gently"?
    - What was the point of the "I Like" video?

Any others?

Don2
[e-mail]

>
> You know wolfgang you are a real jerk. Thanks for the insult.
>
> Dont even start this censorship thing. Did I say that we should
> Censor everything? No I did not. People can talk and sing about
> whatever they want.
>
> ...... Why waste my time, BYE!
>
> -Richard
>
> > PS Im glad we're all different- 'cause while using the "lords name in
> > vain" makes Rich "sick"-
> > the thought of lyrical censorship makes me ....sick.
> > Who knows- maybe Ivan had some sort of relationship with jesus christ in
> > a bathroom?..mm
> > -now that would be something to talk about!!!!
>
>



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) live, lyrics and support slots
Date: 03 Sep 1997 20:29:20 +0100


well, I'm definately coming from London with my portable DAT and CD
maker...  See u at the mixing desk Tom!

As for this 'lyrics' discussion we're all on (?) - as a recording artist
myself I find it unbelieveable that people read so much hidden meaning
into lyrics...

As an example, from a song I wrote ages ago - what does the following
mean:  "Why oh why, must we break or die, must we search far horizons,
cross the many many oceans for a dream, for just a dream."  a rare
remastered MWH CD to the best and worst ideas... (doesn't include u Tom,
you're getting one anyway!!).



l8r

Mike & the crew

PS maybe my band 'alaska highway' could do the support slot!!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Bye
Date: 03 Sep 1997 21:34:44 UT


Wow, that's about a nine on the ole' Tension Scale, huh?  I agree that the
censorship comment was wrong, yet I don't really thing Ivan would care one way
or the other about you owning Sideways.  Besides you did pay retail...

Rush

-----Original Message-----
Sent:    Wednesday, September 03, 1997 9:35 AM


You guys can talk about whatever you want. I am not saying stop
talking about what you are talking about (I am not trying to sensor
you wolfgang!). I am just saying that I am leaving cause I dont want
to read any more messages that make me mad.

Carry on without me.

See Ya ALL!!!!

-Richard Holdman
[Maybe later I might rejoin, but for now I can not take it]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Sorry
Date: 03 Sep 1997 17:06:07 +0000


Sorry About exploding earlier. I guess I just had to let some steam
out. The thing that made me mad was was wolfgangs sarcasim when
he said this
----------------
oh my god !!!!! (errr.. i mean gosh)
BALLS--- as in..........a man's  private parts ????!!!!!
How dare Ivan !!!!!
Im shocked !!!!!
(I think im starting to blush)
oh sweet jesus...oopps - oh mercy me !!!
(grin)

PS Im glad we're all different- 'cause while using the "lords name in
vain" makes Rich "sick"-
----------------
I felt that he was aiming all this to since he included my name in
it. It was just like someone coming right up to me and saying that.
Wolfgang has the right to say whatever he wants to, I dont believe in
censorship. But a person does not have to listen to it.

I was just saying that if this mailing list is gonig to be like that
I dont want to read it.

I really do enjoy that mailing list and like MWH. I will stay on the
list.

Anyway I am going to drop the whole thing. I dont want to talk about
it anymore. :)

-Rich


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan's private show
Date: 03 Sep 1997 22:59:46 -0400 (EDT)


Hey hatters!!!!

Ok before everybody gives their version, the tickets will be MAXIMUM 30$ per
person MAX MAX MAX MAX

Secondly, I have the list of the people who will attend, we are now 61
persons (excluding my side and Claude Gregoire side).

Third, If we do the show,  They will be MWH old songs FOR SURE.
Not because I dont like Ivan's new stuff, just because I really like the
songs from ROY, and FOLK III


I repeat for people who did'nt know.  They will be a private show of IVAN.
 if you want to attend this show in mtl, please, E-Mail me!!!!!

ciao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) PRIVATE SHOW
Date: 04 Sep 1997 19:38:39 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, all. I hope everyone who would like to attend the private concert
by Ivan in Montreal (probably next June) has e-mailed Francis with
the information regarding if you are going and who you will be bringing.

It looks as if there is a lot of enthusiasm for this show and we have
more people willing to attend than I imagined!  Like Francis said,
don't worry anymore about $100 tickets.  It looks as if tickets will
be no more than $30, judging by all the support this plan has gotten.

Once we have confirmed who will be going, and the total number of people
who will be attending, I will ask Francis to relay the information to
Ivan's manager.  Then Francis and I will be required to sign a contract
with Ivan's manager, confirming the amount that Ivan will receive for
the show, the date of the show, and other details like:

Emphasis should be on MWH music

All proceeds minus the hall rental fee will go to Ivan

Where this concert will be held, and an alternate site in case something
happens before June.

This will be a private concert.  With the amount of people in support
of this idea, we will generate plenty of capital for the band and will
not have to open it up to the public.

I will continue to pass details along to you as I get them.

So, if anyone wants to add people to their list of friends/family who
would like to go to the show, e-mail Francis at [e-mail]
and remember, the price as of now is around $30 per ticket, subject to
change (it will rise if attendees drop off, and fall if we get more
people to come).

I certainly hope you are all as excited about this as I am!  We can really
have a celebration when everything is in writing and the contract is
signed. That will be confirmation (for me at least) that my dream of
holding a private concert for members of this great mailing list will
have really come true!!  :)

Thank you!

Angie





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) PAGING DR. LAURA!
Date: 04 Sep 1997 19:44:06 -0400 (EDT)




Laura, where are you? All the e-mail I send to you is getting
returned.

Angie




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Schachter <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) unbridled praise
Date: 04 Sep 1997 19:59:20 -0400 (EDT)


Hello!

I just wanted to say 'way to go' on organizing this private concert!  This is
fantastic!

Unfortunately, the expense in money and time for me to travel to Montreal is
prohibitive, and thus I have not made any input to the discussion so far.  But
I just wanted to commend Angie and Francois on the effort they have expended
and on their dedication to this plan!

Even though I won't be there, it makes me happy to know that "The Great Ones"
(borrowing the slogan from the shirt Laura made :) have close contact with Ivan
and will be able to enjoy such a wonderful event.

Jeff




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Greatest Hats
Date: 04 Sep 1997 23:57:35 -0400 (EDT)


<< Went to Circuit City yesterday ... and found what
 I thought was 'Collection' ...  It was Greatest Hats  >>


Whereabouts in the US are you?  I found the Greatest Hats cd in the circuit
city near Dayton, Ohio...Anyone near a Circuit City should go check, eh?!

Dave K


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas Bieler <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) good-bye!
Date: 05 Sep 1997 17:19:10 +0200 (MET DST)


Hi everybody!

Just wanted to let you know that I'll not be at home the next eight months
or so and when I'm back, my account will most probably not be valid any
more, so it's a farewell for an unpredictable period of time.
Best wishes!
Thomas


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH mp3 Archive (again)
Date: 05 Sep 1997 14:18:12 +0000


:)
(:

Happy Happy Happy

BookWalter sent me the Artwork for the bootleg CDs that he made. I
converted all the files in PDF format and they can be download on the
MWH mp3 archive at http://www.holdman.com/mwh

In order to view or print PDF files you need to download Adobe
Acrobat Reader from adobes web site at www.adobe.com

See ya all

-Richard Holdman


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan's show ---- Official list of people
Date: 05 Sep 1997 20:41:15 -0400 (EDT)


Hey hatters!

Here is the first copy of fan's list who will attend Ivan's private show!

If your name is not there, PLEASE e-mail me!!!!!!

Price of the tickets as to be determine but the maximum will be 30$.  HEY I'm
a sales director, I will work a good price dont worry!!!!!

PLUS, we will get the songs that WE want.  (Like old MWH stuff)

NAME                              NUMBER OF PEOPLE                     WHEN

Don Stroud                                       2
                                     Late November
Greg Baerg                                        2 or 1
                                 Late Sept. Early October
Chris Bever [e-mail]     2 or 1
                                     ****,
Dale Plant                                         2
                                              Spring
Keith Walke                                      2
                                               March
Laura                                                2
                                               weekends
Treena                                              2
                                                from october
Christopher Edward Frey                   2 or 1
                                        beginning of 1998
Alain Robillard-Bastien                      3 or 4
                                        october
wolfgang                                            5
                                                  ****
Chris Bever                                         1
                                                 ****
Bob Webb                                          2
                                                  ****
Greg Baerg                                         2
                                                  ****
Brad Day                                            2
                                                 weekend
John Elzo                                           2
                                                   April or may
Steve Reid                                          2
                                                   ****
Angela Tooley                                    3
                                                    1998
Aaron Harewood                                 1
                                                  ****
J.R. Bookwalter                                  3
                                                   ****
(Myke) LORD HASENPFEFFER         2
                                                   June
Bradley N. Hull                                    2
                                                  after nov.
Danielle Rossi                                      1
                                                  May or June
Chris Schumann                                   1
                                                  May
Matthew Glidden                                  1
                                                  Spring 1998
Howard Abraham                                 2
                                                   ****
Donald Stroud                                      2
                                                    ****
Russ Chavez                                        2
                                                     april
Vince Silvaggio                                    5
                                                    ****
RICK FULLER                                     4
                                                    ****
Dave Mattingly                                    1
                                                       ****
-John                                                   1
                                                     ****
Barley                                                  2
                                                      ****

                                            TOTAL OF 66
Without counting ME and Claude....



Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) PRIVATE SHOW
Date: 05 Sep 1997 22:09:37 -0400 (EDT)


In a message dated 97-09-05 04:01:34 EDT, you write:

<< This will be a private concert.  With the amount of people in support
 of this idea, we will generate plenty of capital for the band and will
 not have to open it up to the public.
  >>

Why not allow outsiders to enter at a greater price ($50 or so) if they
choose?  How wold YOU feel if you stumbled upon an Ivan show and were not
allowed in because you were not on an email list?  I don't know how many
people in this world that are not on this list would pay ANYTHING to see
Ivan, but, I would surely welcome them to join if they had the money...

Brad Day, card carrying Hats fan
Atlanta, GA




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) CONCERT
Date: 06 Sep 1997 11:38:14 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everyone!


Just a reminder that those of you who would like to go to the show,
even if you don't know if you will be able to make it but will try,
must e-mail Francis with the info:

*How many people (including yourself) will you be taking?

*Ideally, when would you like to see the show?

We will be printing up extra tickets, so we want to get an accurate
number of those of you who really want to go. so we can plan accor-
dingly.

Tickets will be no more than $30 apiece (possibly less) for this private
show.

Do not hesitate to e-mail Francis at [e-mail] if you haven't
done it already! Do it even if you really want to go but are unsure
if you will be able to make it, but you're willing to give it a good
effort.

Please enter your information by Monday the 8th!!!!

Thank you all and I can't wait to meet each and every one of you!

Bye for now

Angie




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Show
Date: 06 Sep 1997 18:02:59 -0400 (EDT)


By the way, my address is JDIVITO334.COM,  not JDIVITO.COM....

Tiny error from Angie,  she is too anxious to see this show,  SO AM I!!!!!

AAAAHHI II IWIWHOHOHH HOWHHWOHOWOOWOWPOAAAA


OK, bye for now

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vince Silvaggio <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan's new video
Date: 06 Sep 1997 19:32:25 -0400


Hey, Hatters!  I just caught a glimpse at the behind-the-scenes of Ivan's
new video, 'Superbadgirls'.  This video will be set in a strip club, and
will feature a couple of women (his backup singers?) fooling around on stage
(e.g. fighting for a hula hoop, etc.) while Ivan sings along.  This might
ring a bell for Laura, Trena, Tom, and Dave.  Also, Ivan's niece (Colin's
daughter), Sahara, will be featured in the video.  The video is being made
by Bruce MacDonald.

Later!

Vince


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wiggz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) New one arrived...
Date: 08 Sep 1997 00:32:20 GMT


Hello People,
If anyone has any sources for getting hold of MWH CDs / Videos would
you please email them to me.

Thanx,
Seizure,

WIGGZ.
" Bright Light Bright Light "=20


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Realyrics or not?
Date: 07 Sep 1997 23:26:25 -0400 (EDT)



In a message dated 9/2/97 9:25:39 PM, you wrote:

<<We were took
by surprise/ As we looked at the size/ Of the man who we all call Lord/
Just between you and me/  Well, there weren't much to see/ What with
helmet and blood-stained sword>>

Does someone have a cheat sheet on this? I always hear it as: "... by
surprise as we FOUGHT by the side of the man whom we all call lord... " Kind
of a back-in-time knights and earls thing -- maybe in Scotland in a forest in
the rain or something. Always figured Ivan time-trips like I do... Just
wondering.




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (Fwd) (hats) CONCERT
Date: 07 Sep 1997 23:33:08 -0400 (EDT)


I moved from Chicago (from whence I could have easily made it to Montreal) to
Colorado a couple months ago. Sort of the way my life seems to go! Now I
could make it to Utah easier! I'd give anything to make it to Canada for a
private showing -- but no way I can. If this happens -- SOMEBODY TAPE IT!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: (hats) Where to buy mwh cds
Date: 08 Sep 1997 02:46:10 -0700


Try A&B Sound in Vancouver.  They should have all the Polygram titles
(Adventures of Women and Men Without Hate, Sideways, Pop Goes the World)
plus Greatest Hats and The Spell
http://www.absound.ca/

Or HMV in Toronto:
phone [phone]

Good luck finding the Rhythm of Youth/Folk of the 80s (unless you don't
live in North America...)

Rod
Los Angeles


>Hello People,
>If anyone has any sources for getting hold of MWH CDs / Videos would
>you please email them to me.
>
>Thanx,
>Seizure,




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas Ullrich <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Todd's Message: BOOTLEGS
Date: 08 Sep 1997 18:30:30 +0200


Hi Hatters!

I'm one of those who sent money to Todd to get the new bootlegs. In the
meantime I got the bootleg set from Tom (thanks again, Tom!), but I am
still interested in Todd's bootlegs (for friends that are not on the list).

About 2 weeks ago I read all Your complaints about Todd and became a bit
worried about the money I sent to Todd. But before discussing the problem
on the list I wanted to give Todd a fair chance to justify himself. As I
have 2 e-mail addresses from Todd, I sent my message to both of these
addresses. One message came back and the other reached Todd. I wasn't able
to e-mail the last 2 weeks and today I found a message from Todd in my
mailbox:


> Subject:
>        Re: MWH bootlegs: VERY URGENT!
>    Date:
>        Thu, 28 Aug 97 13:53:59 -0600
>   From:
>        [e-mail] (Todd Draper)
>     To:
>        "Thomas Ullrich" <[e-mail]>
>
>
> Thomas,
>
> I've tried to send an email to the list a couple of times but for some
> reason they are failing to show up.
>
> Could you forward this to the list for me?
> --
> I'm very sorry for the delay on the discs - things are finally moving
> forward again now. After spending too much time and money trying to burn
> them myself on my CDR I've taken the discs to a service to get them
> duplicated. I was having a failure rate of almost 33% before making this
> decision.
>
> The service has not yet given me a firm date for delivery, but have
> estimated that they should arrive "soon".
>
> As soon as I get the discs back from them they will be sent out via two
> day mail to domestic addresses, I'll see what I can do for faster
> international mailing.
>
> I'm really very sorry for all the problems getting these done, I never
> anticipated things being this complicated. Anyone who has ever started a
> business can appeciate the way time can disappear, though.
>
> Also, please note that my old email address at qtm.net is no longer
> active. If you need to reach me you can do so at [e-mail] or for an
> automated CD status response (starting in a couple of days) you can send
> to [e-mail].
>
> If anyone no longer wants the discs I can refund your money, just let me
> know.
>
> best,
> todd


I can't really understand why Todd can't reach the list. Send Your messages
to [e-mail], Todd! I hope that this 'Bootleg story' will come to a
'Happy End' now!

Thomas


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: Re: (hats) Realyrics or not?
Date: 08 Sep 1997 18:02:10 -0400 (EDT)




I think a lot of those lyrics on the MWH lyric database web pages are
screwed up. Does anyone else think so? I wish I had it in front of
me because I could cite about 50 examples.

Angie




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) SHOW
Date: 08 Sep 1997 19:29:37 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everyone!  I just want to give you a briefing on what's up with
developments.

It appears that AT LEAST 50% of the material that Ivan will play on
the day of the private show will be MWH material. Ivan's manager is
aware of what you all want to hear most of all. It will probably be
more like 70% MWH stuff.

I have given the names of those who e-mailed me with their requests for
tickets to Francis to add to the list.  I believe we have about 90
people now who would like to attend.  If you want to go, PLEASE
E-mail Francis at [e-mail]  really soon!

Does anyone out there know how to design a web page?  I have an idea
of creating a web page that lists all of the songs MWH ever put out
on their albums, and each list member will click a button next to
10 or 15 songs that he or she would very much like to hear Ivan play
on the date of the private concert. The program would then tally up
the most requested songs, and the list would be given to Ivan so he
can have an idea of which songs to play for us that day. It will be
more of a guide for him than anything, just to give him a feel for
the audience he'll be playing to.

Also, what do you think of a short opening act before the show?  I am
a musician/singer and would like to open it with a trio act: me on
acoustic guitar, violin, mandolin & vocals; my brother Shawn on lead
and rhythm guitar (he records for an independent label in NYC, and he
also sings),; and someone from the list who can play keyboard really
well, preferably one with a drum machine.  I was thinking of gearing
the material we play toward a sort of theme - maybe we will do several
songs known to have influenced the sound, style, and philosophy of
Ivan and MWH, like one or two Beatles songs, one or two Abba songs,
maybe a Roxy song, Lou Reed, Led Zep maybe, Replacements, Genesis,
and anything else that would thematically fit into the whole purpose
of the show - to celebrate Ivan and his music.  What do you think of
this idea?  I would like your honest feedback please.

Thank you all, and keep your fingers crossed that everything'll work
out right!!

Angie



--

 #



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: Re: (hats) Realyrics or not?
Date: 08 Sep 1997 18:02:10 -0400 (EDT)




I think a lot of those lyrics on the MWH lyric database web pages are
screwed up. Does anyone else think so? I wish I had it in front of
me because I could cite about 50 examples.

Angie




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) For our UK friends...
Date: 08 Sep 1997 21:01:09 -0700


Hi fellow Hatters!

Due to technical problems and me stupidly entering too many dog shows, I
have been away from email for over a week.

The following is non-Hats, but I have often said that I feel that the
list is like a big family, and there is something I would like to say to
our cousins across the pond...

We have a lot of Hatters from the United Kingdom on our list - Mikey
Best, Saul Hazan, Simon Wooldridge, Gregor Watson, and Chris Handshaw to
mention but a few.  I want to tell our Hatters in the UK how very
saddened I am by the death of Princess Diana, and that I share in the
shock and grief that has gripped their nation and the world.

The TV this week has been filled with stories of the good she did during
her life.  Diana was a very generous and loving person who shared
herself with many charities and lent support to literally a hundred
worthwhile causes to benefit the world.  She was not afraid to reach out
a hand of friendship and caring to people who had leprosy or were sick
with AIDS or were disfigured by landmines.
I think the lessons that Princess Diana taught the world are very
important.
Especially in light of some of the recent hot-tempered posts that had
come to the list in the past month or so, I think we could all remember
that Diana reached out to everyone, no matter their race or religious
belief or sexual orientation.  I'm glad that our little flare-ups on the
list seem to have subsided for the while, but I hope in the future we
will think about the two wonderful people the world has lost this week -
Diana and Mother Teresa - and maybe we will take our hands away from the
keyboard and count to ten before typing anything that will intentionally
hurt someone else.

OK, off my soap box now, and apologies for the major bummer that this
will probably cause...

Bye for now!
Laura (not-Jim)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) For our UK friends...
Date: 09 Sep 1997 07:15:26 -0400


 >Hi fellow Hatters!
>
>Due to technical problems and me stupidly entering too many dog shows, I
>have been away from email for over a week.
>
>The following is non-Hats, but I have often said that I feel that the
>list is like a big family, and there is something I would like to say to
>our cousins across the pond...
>
>We have a lot of Hatters from the United Kingdom on our list - Mikey
>Best, Saul Hazan, Simon Wooldridge, Gregor Watson, and Chris Handshaw to
>mention but a few.  I want to tell our Hatters in the UK how very
>saddened I am by the death of Princess Diana, and that I share in the
>shock and grief that has gripped their nation and the world.
>
>The TV this week has been filled with stories of the good she did during
>her life.  Diana was a very generous and loving person who shared
>herself with many charities and lent support to literally a hundred
>worthwhile causes to benefit the world.  She was not afraid to reach out
>a hand of friendship and caring to people who had leprosy or were sick
>with AIDS or were disfigured by landmines.
>I think the lessons that Princess Diana taught the world are very
>important.
>Especially in light of some of the recent hot-tempered posts that had
>come to the list in the past month or so, I think we could all remember
>that Diana reached out to everyone, no matter their race or religious
>belief or sexual orientation.  I'm glad that our little flare-ups on the
>list seem to have subsided for the while, but I hope in the future we
>will think about the two wonderful people the world has lost this week -
>Diana and Mother Teresa - and maybe we will take our hands away from the
>keyboard and count to ten before typing anything that will intentionally
>hurt someone else.

YES!  And in loving memory of Di  ........

Go Team England!   May you beat Moldova this Wednesday in the World Cup
alifier   -- 2:55pm Sept 10th  ESPN2 in US,  TSN-RDS in Canada.    En-ger-land!
En-ger-land!  En-ger-land!
Go Ian Wright and Alan Shearer!!!

now hats related:

I have finished Daniele, Claude, Wolfgang, and Christopher's IVAN videos.   I am
mailing them yesterday :-)
In other words, I already mailed them yesterday.   :-)

Tom
[e-mail]







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Who's who update
Date: 09 Sep 1997 07:19:49 +0000


Hi everybody!

If you read your name in the following list, it means that I didn't
received informations from you concerning the who's who list. If you
want to stay in, send me your date of birth, place of living, home page
URL and a short text explaining why you like MWH. To get an idea of how
it should look like, go see for yourself at
http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/whoswho_mwh.html

Anthonetta Nel, Mike Best, Thomas Bieler, Mark Causer, Chris Handshaw,
Jonas Lantz, Henning Schiedehausen (date of birth), Greg Baerg, Alex
Billings, Fran=E7ois Blawat, Carl Caprioglio, Brad Day (date of birth),
Todd Draper (date of bootlegs shipping), Christopher Frey, Charlie
Garbowski, Paul Go, Ian Ingham, Russ Kemsley, David King, Dave Krupla
(date of birth), Rod MacQuarrie, Marty McKolskey, Tom Norman (date of
birth), Andrew Pepoy, Ray Peterson, David Richards, Gino Rodeghier, Eric
W. Soderblom (date of birth), Donald Stroud, Jim Sustacek, Michael Ward,
Adam Webber and Adam J. Weitzman.

At the end of september, I will delete from the who's who list (not the
mailing list) the name of those in the above list who didn't reply to
this message. So at the beginning of october, it will be possible for
everyone of you who have home pages to put links leading to the MWH FAQ
home page http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html , the Who's who
list http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/whoswho_mwh.html and the soon to be
publish MWH links page http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/links_mwh.html
(should be ready by the end of this day).

Suggestions and comments are, like usually, very welcomed

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hiram Lester, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: Realyrics or not?
Date: 09 Sep 1997 08:47:36 -0500 (CDT)


On Sun, 7 Sep 1997 [e-mail] wrote:

> <<We were took
> by surprise/ As we looked at the size/ Of the man who we all call Lord/
> Just between you and me/  Well, there weren't much to see/ What with
> helmet and blood-stained sword>>
>
> Does someone have a cheat sheet on this? I always hear it as: "... by
> surprise as we FOUGHT by the side of the man whom we all call lord... " Kind
> of a back-in-time knights and earls thing -- maybe in Scotland in a forest in
> the rain or something. Always figured Ivan time-trips like I do... Just
> wondering.

The lyrics as listed at the beginning of this message "...looked..." are
those listed in the CD insert.  I also took the reference to be lord as in
earls and such.

   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
   | Hiram W. Lester, Jr.               | E-Mail: [e-mail]    |
   | Computer Science                   | Home page:                    |
   | Middle Tennessee State University  |   http://pobox.com/~hwlester/ |
   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KGB <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Who's who update
Date: 09 Sep 1997 11:01:08 -0700


Please don't think me merely paranoid (which I often am), but for those
that
aren't aware you may wish to consider the danger of publishing your
birth
dates on the web.  By making an association between your name and date
of
birth in such a public place, you are opening yourself up to all kinds
of
attacks on your private and possibly financial life.  This information
in the
wrong hands can be just as dangerous as giving out your social security
number.  And it is highly recommended that neither your birthday or SSN
be
shared unless it relates to the IRS (bank accounts, home purchase,
etc.).
Birthdays are often used in many computer systems as part of your
identification because in many states it is illegal to use a SSN, and in
most
states it is being legislated to be made illegal.

Though it is very unlikely that anything like this would actually
happen, I
think you need to think about how important is sharing this really?

KGB.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Re: birthdays
Date: 09 Sep 1997 15:46:41 -0500


Actually, it really isn't very important that we share our birthdates on
the Who's who page.  This is simply information that we thought might be
interesting.  Nevertheless, KGB does have a point:  it is, very often,
the interesting information that can be used against us, should someone
wish to do so.  Perhaps we should take a vote.  What does everyone else
think?

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Another links page!
Date: 09 Sep 1997 23:14:09 +0000


Hello everyone...

After 16 hours in a row, non stop, I finally finish the links page of
the MWH FAQ site. One of the last entries I put there was Eric
Soderblom's Guide??? Eric, were you aware I was working on that thing?
Anyway, feel free to take whatever looks useful for your page.

A very big thanks to everybody who sent me URL, especially James Davis
and Dave Mattingly. You can access the page by entering the home page of
the MWH FAQ site at http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html and
then hit the word LINKS. Voil=E0!

I'll be waiting for comments, suggestions, reactions etc...

Now, lets eat!

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Claude's page...
Date: 10 Sep 1997 08:38:54 +0000


Is GREAT!  Really nice job, Claude.  Can't wait until it's fully
operational.

I followed some of the links, and found out that Ivan had performed
on August 23rd in Ottowa.  Did anyone know about this?  Did anyone
go? (It's under Links-PromosTexts&Reviews-Ivan)

D'oh!  I had checked the Tox records site EVERY OTHER DAY to see if
they were going to perform anywhere and I did not see this listed.
BUMMER!

L8R, T8Rs!

:-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) The Spell graphics
Date: 10 Sep 1997 23:36:14 -0500


We've been spending a lot of time discussing the lyrics to Sideways, but
we haven't spent a grat deal of time on The Spell (that I have been here
for, at least :)  ).  At any rate, I was wondering if anyone has any
idea as to the significance of the graphics on the inside of The Spell's
booklet.  The same symbols are all over the official web site, but I'll
be @!!##@! if I can figure them out!!

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Mp3 Archive Update
Date: 11 Sep 1997 09:15:19 +0000


A new Cover has been Added to the MWH mp3 archive. It is
Big Daddy singing Saftey Dance. It is kind of fun you should check it
out.

The MWH mp3 archive is located at www.holdman.com/mwh

Thanks goes out to Dave Mattingly for sending me this one and also
the Cover of the Chinese Detectives doing "Where Do the Boys Go"

If Anybody has anything else that they would like to see on the
archive let me know.

-Richard Holdman


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harding Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) My prize possession...
Date: 11 Sep 1997 15:16:15 -0400


All,
>
> One of my 'prize' MWH possessions.....signed by all the band members
in
> 1988 while they were on the POP tour here in Washington, D.C.....the
> ticket stub on the left is from 1985....the right from 1988. Ivan's
> autograph (top left) is SO COOOOOL...
> peace + love........

http://www.geocities.com/~boneheads/plaque.jpg
>
> Anyway...ENJOY! Comments are welcome!
>
> -Jeff
>



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) I did it again...
Date: 12 Sep 1997 02:09:12 +0000


Hi all!

I'm still working on the FAQ site (
http://ww.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html ). I just put the
merchandise section on-line. Go check it out. If you have more
informations you want me to add to either the who's who page, the
merchandise page or the links page, just tell me, the more we put into
this, the better it will get!

As you may have noticed, 2 sections remain blank; the "history" section
and the "family" section. The first one is where I want to put all the
questions concerning MWH and Ivan (When? Where? How many? Why?).
Everything goes here; signification of logo, name of the band, lyrics;
chronology, covers, collaborations, chart's positions, secret projects
(you get the pictures). Also this is where we should put all questions
frequently asked by newbies on the list. Submit all entries in form of
question and answer. Thanks in advance. You can also submit question for
wich you don't have an answer (we all love a good challenge...).

The second section (family) will be dedicated to every individuals who
were part of MWH at one point or the other. Ideally we are looking for a
picture and a bio for all of these nice guys and gals. Here again, help
is warmly welcomed!

Last but not least; someone on the list asked me something crazy a few
weeks ago: will I put pictures from list members on the who's who list!
On second thought I like the idea. I think I can come up with something
nice. So all off you who wants in, start sending those pictures (any
format, I'll standardize everything).

Oh! One more thing: Good night!

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) what we look like!
Date: 12 Sep 1997 11:03:53 +0000


Hi everyone!

I must admit I love this. Go take a peek at
http://ww.total.net/~gigarpus/idwenl.html
Thank you Lars for showing the way. I'll put my picture this weekend!

Have a nice day all...

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) QUESTIONNAIRE
Date: 12 Sep 1997 16:58:19 -0400 (EDT)




HI EVERYONE! eVERYONE WHO WANTS TO GO TO THE SHOW CHECK OUT THIS WEB
SITE THAT WENDY MADE:



www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/4770/concert.html


it's interactive and it's to give Ivan an idea of what we would like to
hear the day of the BIG SHOW


Thanx everybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Angie




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) HEY!!!! Nice site!
Date: 12 Sep 1997 23:07:08 -0400 (EDT)


Hey!

Angie did a terrible job with Ivan's show special site.

PLease, go on this site and answer the question regarding your most requested
songs!!!!

Francis

P.s. the site is:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/4770/concert.html


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) SPECIAL WEB SITE
Date: 13 Sep 1997 09:49:55 -0400 (EDT)




Hey everybody!!

I hope when Francis said I did a terrible job on the questionnaire web site
he really meant I did a TERRIFFIC job!! :-)

(Francis, just so you all know, is doing a terriffic job himself, getting all
the contacts and arranging meetings, etc. I trust him entirely and he has been
in this business of music for around 10 years now, and he is the best person
to help get this whole thing together)

BTW, it was Wendy who asked her boyfriend to create this web site, and he
did a wonderful job.  Everyone who wants to go to the private show should
log on to the site and click on 15 of your favorite MWH songs. Hopefully
Ivan will grace us all with a live performance of some of the most popular
songs we choose!!

Thank you all for your help, enthusiasm and support!

Men Without Hats Forever!!!!!

Angie   :-)





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) SPECIAL WEB SITE
Date: 13 Sep 1997 09:55:17 -0400 (EDT)





That web site address again is:

www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/4770/concert.html


OK?  Check it out fellow Hats fans!!!!

Byebye

Angie


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) hats logo
Date: 13 Sep 1997 16:45:05 -0400 (EDT)




I'm interested in hearing more stories about reactions to list members
wearing MWH tee-shirts!  I think it's so funny when people who have no
clue try to guess what message we're trying to give the world when we
wear them.

Does anybody know the answers to the following questions:

*Who is "Tony"?

*What was the purpose of "The Safety Dance"? I've heard it's about
armageddon and many other things, but does anyone know for sure?

 Thanx guys!

Angie



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Message........
Date: 13 Sep 1997 23:41:28 -0400 (EDT)


Hi hatters.

I just lost my last 24 hours message.  So if you have sent me some mail
during the last 24 hours, I dont have it.  Send me back again!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan's private show
Date: 14 Sep 1997 22:37:21 -0400 (EDT)


HEy hatters.

You can leave me a message if you didn't do it if you want to come to a
private show of Ivan in Montreal.

Tell me number of people and when!

Ciao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) pop goes the world cd
Date: 15 Sep 1997 22:24:38 -0400 (EDT)


anyone interested in a copy of the "pop goes the world" cd for $10, please
let me know.

thanks
ray


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Where did the boy go?
Date: 16 Sep 1997 00:03:46 +0000


Hi everyone!

Can someone please tell me how I can reach Myke Carter. For now 1 week
all the messages I'm sending him are returned! Did he change his e-mail
address?

Some news: I added more than 10 new links to the links page and
merchandise page. If by any chance you know some important links (MWH
related) no present on those lists, tell me! We have a new "youngest"
member : Aaron Gitlin (just turned 15 this summer) started listening to
MWH at 3!!!! I can't beat that.

I'm still waiting for entries in the FAQ page. Don't be shy. Send some
more photos to. Only 3 of us have the highly coveted VIP member card.
Check it out in the who's who page.

I can sleep if I want to...

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ
Date: 17 Sep 1997 00:36:49 +0000


Hi all!

I just spent the day on the archives and start putting stuff on the FAQ
page. Go check it out http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/history_mwh.html
Some of you are helping me a lot (thanks again Vince and Jeff). If any
of you find something wrong, inacurate or missing, tell me!

Have a nice sleep...

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH FAQ
Date: 16 Sep 1997 23:08:55 -0600


Senz wrote:  (on the hats listing about a year ago)

>   > ..... the bands famous logo, a
>  > picture of a man wearing a
>  > derby-hat cancelled out by a red bar across it.  This symbol
> existed
>  > before the bands beginning
>  > and was used to show that "a dress-code was not practiced here".
> In
>  > essence this sign
>  > encouraged people to dress freely and individually without being
>  > influenced by some authority or
>  > some other person.
>  >

I found this from a few sources actually. The best
source is from an article written by Ashley Collie in the "Canadian
Musician" circa 1986/1987.  The artical is a four page write-up on an
interview with Ivan and co.  The bit about "No Dress Code" is a
directquote from Ivan.  Hope this helps with the FAQ, Claude.

btw, I have more answers to the questions posed on your FAQ and I'll
post them as soon as I find their sources (going though hundreds of
articles may take awhile!!!)

Senz




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Our man in australia...
Date: 17 Sep 1997 10:46:07 +0000


Hi gang!

Thanks to Nenad Stefanovic, we now have a "representative" in Australia!
Now, is there someone out ther from South America?

A big thanks to all who are helping me with the FAQ pages, it's getting
bigger and better by the day!!!!

See you later

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Men Without Hats ---- Stickers ----  Awesome
Date: 17 Sep 1997 13:54:48 -0700


HEy hatters!!!!

The stickers are ready.  They are awesome, beatiful, fantastico,
incredible.  I'm starting to stick those labels everywhere hehehehe!


So, for the people of the stickers list, Please, send me your money as
requested in my last week private message.

Talk to you later.

Ciao



Francis

P.s. Dont e-mail me on this address, this is my office address.  My address
is  JDIVITO334.AOL.COM

******


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan press kit for sale!
Date: 17 Sep 1997 22:35:41 -0400


Hello,

Today I bought Goldmine and found an ad for a bunch of Men Without Hats
stuff.  I think the owner just might be on this list (or knows someone here)
because he (or she) mentions wanting to purchase the 3Cd bootleg!  :)

For sale are:
Folk of the 80s part 1 $15

Ivan brand new electronic press kit (EPK) for Ivan's new Canadian only solo
LP $20  (what is EPK?)

Open Your Eyes Promo only copy of promotional video for new song $20

Safety Dance Shaped p/d for classic hats song $20

address is:
Contempt
PO Box 1600
NYC, 10276
USA

TEL [phone]
fax [phone]

shipping is $4
can pay by visa, money order, and personal cheque

I never dealt with them, so I don't know ho service is.  Bye!


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) Ivan press kit
Date: 17 Sep 1997 23:35:15 -0700


>
>Ivan brand new electronic press kit (EPK) for Ivan's new Canadian only solo
>LP $20  (what is EPK?)
>


Electronic Press Kit.  Usually a video.  Sometimes a cd rom.  It might have
an interview or career retrospective or videos.  Or any combination.  Most
are under ten minutes, but times can vary a lot.

Rod
Los Angeles




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Josefsson Per-Johan <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Fol of the 80s lyrics
Date: 18 Sep 1997 14:08:33 +0200


I wonder if the lyrics of Folk of the 80s found on the net are
correct. Anyone knows where they are from, or could confirm or
has any comment. I am most doubting the second parts of the 2 middle
rows of the following:

I wear a construction, lumber jacket and shirt
And I don't really like it, but hey, that seems to work
And all of my friends now, it's the uniform of the day
And I can't get away now, so I just want to say

/PJ.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Folk of the 80s lyrics
Date: 18 Sep 1997 09:15:24 +0000


Josefsson Per-Johan wrote:
>
> I wonder if the lyrics of Folk of the 80s found on the net are
> correct.

Hi all!

(CAUTION: for those of you who hate wasting your time on long e-mail,
the following message contain no information! It's basically a series of
requests)

Like many of us, Josefsson found some discripancies in the MWH lyrics on
the net. I think it is time to do something about it. As you can see I'm
trying to do a big clean-up on that MWH thing on the web. As soon as I'm
done with the basics of the F.A.Q. site
http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html (I guess I'll have to
remember it to you from time to time until our dear administrator put
that URL in the permanent signature of the list) I will go through each
of the songs with lyrics in hands (all songs means each versions of the
songs as well) and try to correct things. If some of you want to
contribute to this, the more the merrier!
I am also trying to gather all articles we may have concerning MWH and
Ivan (including photos) to make them accessible to the rest of the list.
Your contributions will be highly welcomed. A little group of persons
are allready contributing marvelously to that end (Vince, Angie and
Francis). Articles need to be typed (scanned articles are taking an
eternity to load!). If you are to lazy (or busy) to type, send a decent
photocopy or e-mail a scanned version (in last resort). At the begining
of next week, I will post all the articles we allready have (after me
meeting Angie, Vince & Francis). This is to avoid people sending me
doubles! After that, if you think you have something that might be of
interest to the group, e-mail me personally. I'll give you my personal
address (if you have something we don't allready have).
Something else. Have some of you seen the All-Music entries related to
MWH. None of them are acurate (in short, it's a total mess). Those
entries can be "edited" by web-user (like us). We should do something
about it. Anibody willing? You can access those entries via the links
page of the FAQ site (no, I wont repeat the address). If you do so, tell
we, I will edit the links page accordingly. Else I'll do it myself
later...
Finally I need info on all the individuals who were at one time or
another part of MWH (including one-shot guests). If you know were I
could find that kind of info, please tell me (I allready have good
sources for J.Arrobas & T.Howe). To get the feel of it, go take a look
in the "family" section of the F.A.Q. site.

Okay, back to work...

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Fwd: Re:  FAQ and "Safety Dance"
Date: 18 Sep 1997 00:40:12 -0500



--WebTV-Mail-442616530-1773
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I used the wrong address on this one, earlier.  Hope it gets to you this
time!!!

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away

--WebTV-Mail-442616530-1773
Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)

Once again, I'd like to say what a fantasctic job Claude has done!  His
new site is truly turning out to be one of the best on the web!
I would like to, however, comment of Angie's qustion of last week:
namely, "What's 'Safety Dance' all about, anyway?"  Well, I can't claim
to know the "real" story, but I had always thought of it as a simple
dance song!  (That answer should please Mike :) ! )  But, Angie's
question got me to thinking:  was "Safety Dance" about something more?
This amusing little ditty is my answer:
I think that the song presents a kind of narrative:
"We can dance if we want to/ We can leave your friends behind"
Evidently, someone is being shunned by his friends because he is
different (dancing?), but the singer is encouraging to keep on keepin'
on.  "We can go where we want to/ a place where they will never find"
i.e.:  By being different, we can create our own world.
"We can act if we want to/ If we don't nobody will"  At this point, they
are staring to feel comfortable with their "difference" and are showing
it to the world, at which point the others start joining in.
("Everybody's taking the chance. . . ")
Now, if "Monkey sees, Monkey does" and there truly is "safety in
numbers", the song starts to show the fultility of individulity.  By
being different, they are taking a chance; but, they are also showing
the others how to act.  As more join in, they become more "safe";
therefore, their individuality is nothing more than a "safety dance":
they are different only until it become the norm, at which point, the
whole process probably starts all over again!
Does this make any sence?  (To a real extent, it shouldn't:  I mean:  I
don't actually think this narrative is "real".  This is just an idea
which has kept me giggling for several days. . . )
At any rate, thanks again, Claude!  I'm going to sleep now, 'cause "I
want to. . ." !

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away

--WebTV-Mail-442616530-1773--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Woodrow W. Zenfell, III" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Fol of the 80s lyrics
Date: 18 Sep 1997 13:56:02 -0500 (CDT)


On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Josefsson Per-Johan wrote:

> I wear a construction, lumber jacket and shirt
> And I don't really like it, but hey, that seems to work
> And all of my friends now, it's the uniform of the day
> And I can't get away now, so I just want to say

I always used to think he said

Aware of construction: lumberjack in a church
And I don't really like it, but the effect seems to work
With all of my friends now (it's the uniform of today)...
And I can't get away now, so I just want to say:

Listening to it again I agree with the posted (by /PJ) first line, but
believe the rest of mine to be correct.

On a different note, I've been listening to The Spell (album) a lot more
lately and have to say:
 Forever is quite the catchy cool song.. I'm working on an arrangement of
     it for the a capella group I'm in at the University.. :)
 www is kinda cool sometimes, parts of it sound very 21st Century to me.
     I have to say I find some of the rap stuff really out of place: not
     because of the style or voice, but just the subject matter (the "I'm
     the coolest rapper, and you can't handle my wicked rhymes and smooth
     voice, and all the girls should "shake their booty"), and some
     inappropriate little comments interfering with Ivan's text (yeah
     check it, check the words, uh huh, and worse yet the annoying "yeah
     huh uhhuh yeah" thing in one of the later verses).  I just think
     Ivan's going along with his usual Ivan stuff and this annoying rapper
     keeps trying to interrupt him and distract us.  Irritating.
 You I actually kinda like as a music; has anyone really listened to the
     words?  I haven't really pored over it or puzzled it out but it's
     always suggestive to me of sex from a very "biological" point of
     view.  Which is pretty unusual however you look at it.  Or maybe
     there's just something odd about my background such that that's what
     I hear..

Well just a few random thoughts..
Woody


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Private Concerto
Date: 18 Sep 1997 21:04:54 UT


I don't know about everyone else, but I think that the show should be on a
Saturday night.  That way all of us workin/schoolin schmo's have time to
fly/drive in...  Any update on the date???

Cordially,

Rush
"A is A:  The basic premise of Reason."



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) GOING TO MONTREAL
Date: 18 Sep 1997 18:30:23 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everyone!! Just a little note to let you know I will be in Montreal
this weekend to meet with some list members and get some more info on
the show we are trying to arrange.  I'm really psyched because I've
always wanted to go and I'll actually be there tomorrow!!! Like Claude
has said, I will be meeting with him, Francis, and Vince to discuss
plans for the show, and I will let you know whatever information I am
able to pass along to you. Keep the torch lit for this private concert!!!

MWH Forever!!!

Love to all,   Angie   :-)





--

 #



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fehnnik Fox <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Need help getting the 2-4-1 CD
Date: 18 Sep 1997 17:06:02 -0600


Does anybody know of a place to mail order the 2-4-1 or perhaps is
there a member on the list who has access to the CD that would be
willing to purchase a copy for me?  Thanks for all your help!
--Fehnnik Fox
"American Espresso: Don't drink foam without it!
http://members.aol.com/fehnnik



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude Berthiaume <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: "Safety Dance"
Date: 18 Sep 1997 20:20:12 -0400


Even if my english is not perfect, I give my opinion on the meaning of =
the Safety Dance. I think it's like a big "Carpe Diem", he just tells us =
that we can do whatever we want and we should not restrain ourselves =
because others are not doing so. Maybe the "Safety" is just there to =
tell us that we can act as we want as long as we don't endanger anything =
or anyone??? We should ask Ivan at the concert about this!!!



Simon

-----Message d'origine-----
De:    Keith Walker [SMTP:[e-mail]]
=C0:    [e-mail]
Objet:    Re:  FAQ and "Safety Dance"

Once again, I'd like to say what a fantasctic job Claude has done!  His
new site is truly turning out to be one of the best on the web!
I would like to, however, comment of Angie's qustion of last week:
namely, "What's 'Safety Dance' all about, anyway?"  Well, I can't claim
to know the "real" story, but I had always thought of it as a simple
dance song!  (That answer should please Mike :) ! )  But, Angie's
question got me to thinking:  was "Safety Dance" about something more?
This amusing little ditty is my answer:
I think that the song presents a kind of narrative:
"We can dance if we want to/ We can leave your friends behind"
Evidently, someone is being shunned by his friends because he is
different (dancing?), but the singer is encouraging to keep on keepin'
on.  "We can go where we want to/ a place where they will never find"
i.e.:  By being different, we can create our own world. =20
"We can act if we want to/ If we don't nobody will"  At this point, they
are staring to feel comfortable with their "difference" and are showing
it to the world, at which point the others start joining in.
("Everybody's taking the chance. . . ") =20
Now, if "Monkey sees, Monkey does" and there truly is "safety in
numbers", the song starts to show the fultility of individulity.  By
being different, they are taking a chance; but, they are also showing
the others how to act.  As more join in, they become more "safe";
therefore, their individuality is nothing more than a "safety dance":
they are different only until it become the norm, at which point, the
whole process probably starts all over again!
Does this make any sence?  (To a real extent, it shouldn't:  I mean:  I
don't actually think this narrative is "real".  This is just an idea
which has kept me giggling for several days. . . )
At any rate, thanks again, Claude!  I'm going to sleep now, 'cause "I
want to. . ." !

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vince Silvaggio <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) RE: Safety Dance
Date: 19 Sep 1997 19:04:47 -0400


Hey, fellow Hatters!

I don't recall where I heard this, but I always thought 'Safety Dance' was
initially 'safe to dance'.  If you listen to the song, fill in 'safe to
dance' where Ivan sings 'safety dance' and you'll wonder whether or not that
is what he meant to sing.  I think it became the 'Safety Dance' because it's
a catchier title.  Furthermore, I heard Ivan wrote the song because of the
growing tendency at that time of 'slam dancing' (I don't know the exact term
- you guys remember the punk rock tendency of fans smashing into each other
on the dance floor??)

Regarding the song and nuclear war, the only connection I can make is when
we see a bunch of still pictures at the end of the video.  Aren't there
black and white pictures of nuclear warheads, etc?

Til next time,
Vince



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Col & Neen <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Introduction
Date: 20 Sep 1997 12:16:37 +0100


Hi! This is my first ever posting to this list so I thought I'd introduce
myself.

My names Col and I have been into MWH for about 12 years.  Living in
England it has been extremely difficult to get hold of MWH records (before
the internet that is) as they're rarely released over here.Still, by
hounding friends and relatives every time they go on holiday I have managed
to get all their albums on CD (except Folk of the 80's) that I have on
cassette.) A friend of mine actually has a Rhythm of Youth Picture Disc -
is that rare? I have a few questions that perhaps someone out their can
answer:

1. I have Freeways (Euromix) on single - is there another version of this
available        entirely in English? - anyone know where I can get one.

2. I read on a web page that some fans have created their own CD's of
previously    unreleased material (live stuff etc.) - any idea how I go
about getting a copy.

P.S. Spells has just cost me $49.00 from CDNow - I hope it's worth it!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Fol of the 80s lyrics
Date: 20 Sep 1997 09:27:01 -0400 (EDT)


In a message dated 97-09-18 08:10:49 EDT, you write:

<< I wear a construction, lumber jacket and shirt
 And I don't really like it, but hey, that seems to work
 And all of my friends now, it's the uniform of the day
 And I can't get away now, so I just want to say >>

the lyrics are:

we're a construction, lumberjack in church
I don't really like it, but the effect seems to work
with all of my friends now, it's the uniform of today
and I can't get away now, so I just want to say

dan


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) schilling
Date: 20 Sep 1997 09:55:17 -0400 (EDT)


whomever sent me that message about schilling to cd, could you re-email me ,
I've lost your address

dan


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  (hats) Fwd: Re:  FAQ and "Safety Dance"
Date: 20 Sep 1997 11:41:28 -0400 (EDT)


Back when the Men were making their first big splash in the U.S., I remember
hearing an interview with Ivan in which he described "Safety Dance" as a
personal reaction against slam dancing, which was also making its first big
splash at the time. Said he didn't consider it dancing, felt it was a threat
to others, and offered it as an answer to "friends" who thought it was a
bandwagon Mw/oH ought to jump on. Figured they could dance if they wanted to,
rather than slam.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mike <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Competition: Freeways '85 Re-Issue
Date: 21 Sep 1997 09:28:18 +0100


Well my old chums, I've actually done what I threatened to do ages ago -
remaster some of the bootlegs.  When JR did the first lot the software he
had insisted on a 2 second gap inbetween the tracks (hence the live
fades).  Well, my new company (Pigpen Digital here in London) has just
opened and the first job was to take the DAT recorded from the Freeways
'85 (Montreal) original master video tape and create a 'proper' live CD
(with no gaps) but all the track markers in the right places.  Someone on
the list has turned one down (I printed 5) so there is one spare.  If you
can write me with the best reason in the world why you should have it
then you'll win, otherwise you'll have to wait for Tom to print off a
whole batch later in the year.

It sounds perfect, and with no gaps it sounds like the original - but if
you don't have the video or the DAT then you probably don't know what I'm
talking about!!!


Closing date is the end of this month so good luck and may the best hat
win...


Mike
Pigpen Digital, London

PS Competition is not open to JR, Laura or Carl - sorry!! (tee hee hee)

PPS watch out for the Toronto Jan'83 competition coming to a server near
you soon...


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) gettin' the boot!
Date: 21 Sep 1997 12:40:51 -0400 (EDT)


Are we going to get our bootleg CD's, or are we just gettin' the boot from
Todd? Last message I read, he supposedly couldn't do them so he sent them out
to some company to be made. The company said they would be done "soon". That
was a few weeks ago. What gives?

Ray


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hiram Lester, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: "You" from "The Spell"
Date: 21 Sep 1997 13:14:09 -0500 (CDT)


On Thu, 18 Sep 1997, Woodrow W. Zenfell, III wrote:

>  You I actually kinda like as a music; has anyone really listened to the
>      words?  I haven't really pored over it or puzzled it out but it's
>      always suggestive to me of sex from a very "biological" point of
>      view.  Which is pretty unusual however you look at it.  Or maybe
>      there's just something odd about my background such that that's what
>      I hear..

I wouldn't really have said sex, but it IS full of allegory.

You... so near the palace of my pulse [my heart]
Echo the red rain's refrain [blood]

and it continues like this.  It sounds like somebody REALLY obsessed to
the point of losing one's own identity.  The haunting music adds to this
effect.

   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
   | Hiram W. Lester, Jr.               | E-Mail: [e-mail]    |
   | Computer Science                   | Home page:                    |
   | Middle Tennessee State University  |   http://pobox.com/~hwlester/ |
   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hiram Lester, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: Safety Dance
Date: 21 Sep 1997 13:17:36 -0500 (CDT)


On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Vince Silvaggio wrote:

> I don't recall where I heard this, but I always thought 'Safety Dance' was
> initially 'safe to dance'.  If you listen to the song, fill in 'safe to
> dance' where Ivan sings 'safety dance' and you'll wonder whether or not that
> is what he meant to sing.  I think it became the 'Safety Dance' because it's
> a catchier title.  Furthermore, I heard Ivan wrote the song because of the
> growing tendency at that time of 'slam dancing' (I don't know the exact term
> - you guys remember the punk rock tendency of fans smashing into each other
> on the dance floor??)

Yes, slam dancing is the corect term.  I seem to remember hearing this on
American Top 40 with Casey Casem when The Safety Dance was on the charts.
I can't remember if it was an interview, or just Casey's comments that it
was a protest against "violent punk rock dances".

   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
   | Hiram W. Lester, Jr.               | E-Mail: [e-mail]    |
   | Computer Science                   | Home page:                    |
   | Middle Tennessee State University  |   http://pobox.com/~hwlester/ |
   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bradley N. Hull" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Boots
Date: 21 Sep 1997 17:07:38 -0400


I have sent several requests to the "automated response" e-mail address
that Todd (via Thomas) said he would set up for us to get status reports.=
 =

I have received no reply.

I also sent a message to Todd directly on Friday.  No response yet, but I=

will let everyone know if I hear from him.

Brad


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) "Have all voted...?"
Date: 22 Sep 1997 01:18:21 -0400 (EDT)


Hey everyone...

Just a little update on the survey:  unless there are strenuous objections,
we'll be shutting down the poll (15 songs that you'd like to hear at Ivan's
concert) at 11pm on Saturday, Sept 27th (PST).  That will give us a chance
to collate the results and get them back to the list on Monday or so.

Just a reminder, we can't process any responses that are nameless and/or
contain more than 15 song titles.  If you've already voted, but neglected to
post your name, please vote again - and include your name.  We're not axe
murderers and we won't hunt you down for the IRS  :)  It's just a means of
identifying each response...use a pseudo if you're not comfortable leaving
your real name.

Thanks all for participating!

Wendy and Kris.
----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: "You" from "The Spell"
Date: 22 Sep 1997 13:16:47 +0000


Hi All!

Back on after a brief enforced absence - hope y'all missed me!

Hiram said...
> . . . but it IS full of allegory.

Actually, I think it's an extended metaphor.  ;-)  Sorry, it's the
professional educator in me.

> You... so near the palace of my pulse [my heart]

As an added bonus, this has alliteration (the repetition of the
initial "p" sound in palace and pulse) and consonance (the repetition
of the "ssss" sound at the end of palace and pulse).

Oops!  Can you tell I just did 3 English tests and 12 forms of high
school reading?!?!

From a purely literary standpoint, this is a very well-put-together
piece of poetry in its use of imagery and figurative language.  Nice
job, Colin!!

Plus, as Hiram said, the music is haunting.  I like this song more
every time I listen to it.

CUL8R!!
;-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Woodrow W. Zenfell, III" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: "You" from "The Spell"
Date: 22 Sep 1997 13:22:05 -0500 (CDT)


On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, Hiram Lester, Jr. wrote:

> You... so near the palace of my pulse [my heart]
> Echo the red rain's refrain [blood]

In my view I guess all the bits about cells reshaping and hoping to escape
and enter into You formed the basis; then all the other metaphors (blood,
hardening, arterial blue, etc) seemed to back that up.

> and it continues like this.  It sounds like somebody REALLY obsessed to
> the point of losing one's own identity.  The haunting music adds to this
> effect.

Ok, I like this.  It's a more reasonable interpretation and lends a new
tilt to the "escape into you" bits, etc.  I guess too much time in class
talking about meiosis and movement of genetic material yielded the odd
view on "cells reshaping" and "entering into" another.. :)

Well, whatever the case may be, it's a cool song :)  The last I had heard
was a while ago when several people had said they didn't find it very
interesting or rewarding.

Take care all,
Woody


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH FAQ
Date: 23 Sep 1997 05:16:39 +0000


Hi all!

It's now 5 in the morning! I just finish the beta version of the Family
page. You have to go check it out. It's just a beginning (maybe some of
you could help me out?). For those of you who didn't bookmark it yet,
it's at http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html
I upgraded the starting page, added lots of new links (including some
very nice gif and jpeg files from Super Jim Davis), upgraded the history
page (I'm two third way through the mailing list's archive) and added
navigational buttons to enable switching from one page to the other
without having to go back to the starting page.

Time to go to bed!

See you

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) "Have all voted...?"
Date: 23 Sep 1997 14:57:36 -0400 (EDT)


>Hi!
>
>What are you talking about, Ivan's show September 27th ???
>
>Did I miss something???
>
>Francis
>
>
Sorry to be unclear  :)  The survey comes down on the 27th of September.  As
far as I know, the date hasn't been set for Ivan's concert.


Didn't mean to cause a panic.  :)
----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers, I start to ship TODAY!
Date: 23 Sep 1997 20:24:43 -0400 (EDT)


I'm starting to put stickers in the mail today.


DAVID HOPMAN, I lost your E-mail address, could you E-mail me?


I spoke to Ivan's manager today, We have a nice chat!   I will have more info
tomorrow!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kajjia Goria <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) New Member
Date: 23 Sep 1997 23:21:36 -0700


I don'''t quite kow how this works, but, here it goes.  My name is Aaron
Gitlin.  I am a sophomore in high school in Las Vegas, NV.  I have listened
to MWH since I was around 2.  My brother was a big fan then, and now I am.
I am very interested in aquiring any album on any media for MWH.  If you
have, please let me know.  I am willing to buy!


Aaron Gitlin
http://kajjia.home.ml.org
Security, everyone feels better with...


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) MONTREAL WEEKEND
Date: 24 Sep 1997 11:01:51 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everybody!! I went to Montreal this weekend as planned - it was a short
drive from my friends' home in Burlington, Vermont. Unfortunately, due to
circumstances, I was unable to hook up with Francis to discuss details of
the show we are trying to arrange!  But, not to worry - I will be returning
there at the end of October to try again.  I hope you have all "cast your
votes" for your favorite MWH songs on the web site Wendy put up. I should
be receiving the results soon. We still have time to plan this all out
since we are aiming for a show date in June 1998.
My trip, I must say to you all, was, despite being unable to meet with
Francis, far from being a total loss.  I enjoyed myself immensely and
fell deeply in love

with a new and beautiful city.

Bye for now!

Angie



--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: Re: (hats) MONTREAL WEEKEND
Date: 24 Sep 1997 11:26:25 -0400 (EDT)




OK, I think my message got sent a little prematurely.  Allow me to
continue where I left off.

I enjoyed myself immensely and fell deeply in love
with a new and beautiful city.  Never before have I been treated with such
kindness and respect from total strangers upon visiting a new city alone.
Montreal is unlike any other city I have ever been to - it's culturally
rich, supportive of the arts, respectful, peaceful, and a heck of a lot of
fun to visit.  I hope you all find similar experiences when you attend
the private concert next June.

OK, I think that clears up any suspicions you might have regarding my last
message!!!

Au revoir!!

Angie



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan's private show
Date: 24 Sep 1997 23:32:19 -0400 (EDT)


I hope you will all come.

We are at this point, 101 persons.

Here, I resume my conversation with Ivan's manager.
------------------
With 100 peoples and over, WE CAN HAVE OUR PRIVATE SHOW.

The maximum price for each person will be 30$ per person, I'm dealing to get
less.

I told him that Ivan MUST play the songs we want, (our "best of" list)

I told him that we want to record (video and audio) the show.
-----------------------

Everything seems to work well, HE will get back to be in a few days to give
me some answers.

I hope you enjoy all the works I'm doing for you, WE WILL GET OUR SHOW!!!

Ciao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alison Kogan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) notes
Date: 25 Sep 1997 00:52:01 +0000


hi everyone :)

Playing around with my keyboard tonight, I think I figured out the
basic tune to "The Great Ones remember reprise" It may be off a bit,
but here is what I have:

F D C B A C B G   D D D D E D C

F D C B A G  D D D D E D C

Has anyone else figured anything other songs out? I'm going to try to
figure out more songs. Sometime I'll post them on my MWH page, which
is very small at the moment. It has the MWH icons and that's about
it. In the next few days I'm going to make some MWH animated cursors
and a windows 95 desktop theme. My address is
http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~akogan1

Alison


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) notes
Date: 25 Sep 1997 01:36:24 +0000


Alison Kogan wrote:
>
> hi everyone :)
>
> Playing around with my keyboard tonight, I think I figured out the
> basic tune to "The Great Ones remember reprise" It may be off a bit,
> but here is what I have:
>
> F D C B A C B G   D D D D E D C

Try G D C B A C B G  B B B B C B G

> Has anyone else figured anything other songs out?

A few weeks ago I manage to come up with an accoustic guitar version of
"Folk Of The 80's". It was nice except for one thing, compare to Ivan's
voice, mine sounds like... well, think about something really bad that
wouldn't be nice to post on this mailing list... (I'm sure you get the
picture).

By for now!

Claude

P.S. Angie is the sweetest person in the world ;o)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Woody Hood <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Folk of the 80s/Youth
Date: 25 Sep 1997 08:06:20 -0500 (CDT)


Hi,

I'm new to the list.  I was wondering if anybody could answer my
questions:

1.  Is the "Folk of the 80s/..Youth" cd from Oglio REALLY available yet.
I can't find it listed anywhere.

2.  I've heard that there are several "fan issued" cds of rare/unreleased
Men Without Hats material.  Does anybody know where I can get these?

Any help would certainly be appreciated.  Thanks.

cheers,

woody



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Folk of the 80s/Youth
Date: 25 Sep 1997 10:17:59 +0000


Woody Hood wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to the list.  I was wondering if anybody could answer my
> questions:
>
> 1.  Is the "Folk of the 80s/..Youth" cd from Oglio REALLY available yet.
> I can't find it listed anywhere.
>
> 2.  I've heard that there are several "fan issued" cds of rare/unreleased
> Men Without Hats material.  Does anybody know where I can get these?
>
> Any help would certainly be appreciated.  Thanks.

Dear Woody, you will find answer to all your questions in the Men
Without Hats FAQ site at http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html

You are welcome aboard and can, if want to, be included in the who's who
of the mailing list. Just go in the corresponding section of the
aforementioned FAQ site and follow the instructions.

To all, and mostly Lazlo, is their a way to inform new comers of the
existence of the FAQ site BEFORE they ask frequently asked questions????
That's the purpose of the whole thing! Other mailing lists I have
visited lead new comers to their FAQ site, it only make sense!!!

Y'a-t-y quelqu'un qui dort sur la poque???

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) the MWH FAQ
Date: 25 Sep 1997 12:24:22 +0000


Hi Hatters!!

I just revisited Claude's site, and it keeps getting better and
better every time I go there!  Fan-tastic!!!!!  ;-)


In case you haven't been there yet, the URL is

http://ww.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html

What are you waiting for???  It's great!!!

Super work, Claude!  Thanks for all your hard work.  Now go get some
sleep!

 ;-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) notes
Date: 25 Sep 1997 17:42:37 UT




hi everyone :)

Playing around with my keyboard tonight, I think I figured out the
basic tune to "The Great Ones remember reprise" It may be off a bit,
but here is what I have:

F D C B A C B G   D D D D E D C

F D C B A G  D D D D E D C

[]  Actually, I have figured part of Safety Dance...


S S S S A A A A F F F F E E E E T T T T Y Y Y Y Y

The problem was that after I figured out the notes, I had to invent an
entirely NEW system of music to PLAY them.  Sometimes, I think I take things
too seriously....HA!


As always,

Rush



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) NEWS
Date: 25 Sep 1997 15:12:22 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everyone!  I spoke with Francis on the phone today about all that is
coming together regarding this private concert.  It seems we have between
100 and 115 people who are willing to attend.  This is good because now we
can begin negotiations with Ivan's manager regarding things like ticket
price (we are trying to get the cost below $30 per person, although $30
is a big improvement over the $75 to $100 ticket price we were originally
planning), songs that we would like to hear (I should be receiving the results
soon and I will compile them & post them for all to see), location, and date/
time.  It looks as if it will be sometime in early to mid- June 1998.  We
want to give you all enough time to make appropriate travel arrangements;
I understand some of you are coming from as far away as Europe to see this
show.

I am hoping that we can get all the details worked out and the contract signed
sometime in October.  I will be returning to Montreal on the second-to-last
week in October, and hopefully Francis and I can lock in a good agreement
with Ivan & his manager at that time.

I would like each one of you to e-mail me regarding an opening act for this
show.  I would like to put together an acoustic set with my brother, who
sings & plays guitar professionally.  It would only be about 7 to 10 songs
long, if that.  We would like to do some music that we know has been influential
in the development of MWH music, namely a little Led Zeppelin, Roxy, Abba,
Genesis, maybe some Lou Reed, Tull, Beatles, etc.  The very first rock concert
my brother and I ever went to was a Men Without Hats show in 1985.  Now that
the two of us have a background in playing professionally, I would like to
open the show with him. We sound really good together. But, of course, it's
up to all of you.  Feedback? Comments? Agreements or disagreements?

I will keep you informed as developments occur.  For now, keep the torch lit
and keep listening to those MWH CD's!!!

Bye all!

Angie


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude Berthiaume <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hello???
Date: 25 Sep 1997 06:31:33 -0400


Hey, what happened to you guys, I have no news since Tuesday, are you =
all working??? BTW Francis, any news about the concert?You will have my =
money for the stickers soon.



Simon


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Woodrow W. Zenfell, III" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) notes
Date: 25 Sep 1997 01:57:09 -0500 (CDT)


> Alison Kogan wrote:
>
> > Has anyone else figured anything other songs out?

Yes, many people have figured out many songs throughout the ages...
Depending on what equipment you have to play on and what you want to know,
you may be able to find it already-figured-out.

I know of:
Safety Dance SID file (really old format) - by me but released on Quantum
   Link to the public (anyone else remember that service?  eesh that was
   so long ago)
Pop Goes the World SID file - one not by me, found on QLink; another
   (stereo) by me, also available on QLink..
Safety Dance MOD - I made one about 5 years ago that I could make
   available to the list somehow.  There is also apparently another
   (probably several, I'd guess) floating about; I've not heard it.
Ban the Game MOD - I made one about the same time as the Safety Dance MOD.
   I guess I could make it available too :)
Pop Goes the World (8 voice) MOD - I made one before my Safety Dance MOD;
   it really kinda sucks and I'd be reluctant to release it.  I'd strongly
   suspect there are others floating about.
Where Do the Boys Go?  Finale for Macintosh / Enigma Transportable File -
   an arrangement (transcription? :) ) I produced about a year ago for the
   collegiate a capella group I am now musical director of.  Since this
   works out to be nice pretty sheet music when printed, might be a good
   choice.  If things go well, maybe you guys will be able to hear us
   singing this soon :)
Ban the Game  Finale/ETF - came right after WDTBG.  Same story.
Forever  Finale/ETF - currently in progress :)
MIDI files - I think I have heard about some, but have never seen or
   heard them..

That list may sound a little "me-centric" but it's just because those are
the works I'm most familiar with :). There are certainly lots more out
there I haven't seen.  And of course many of us have figured out parts or
wholes of songs but not transcribed it any of these ways.  That's of
little value to you, though, I'd guess :)

I doubt anyone would have use for the SIDs, and it'd be a big pain for me
to get them out here anyway; I don't know yet how I feel about making the
Finale arrangements public; but I should at least get out the two good
MODs for you guys, I suppose...

If there are particular parts you're having trouble with, I bet there are
many of us on the list who'd help puzzle them out.

Take care,
Woody


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kajjia Goria <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Folk of the 80s/Youth
Date: 25 Sep 1997 15:36:26 -0700


I am interested in the FOE/ROY CD as well.  I heard from Oglio (I called
them up) that it would be available for import in DEcember.  Catch ya all
latez!


At 08:06 AM 9/25/97 -0500, Woody Hood wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm new to the list.  I was wondering if anybody could answer my
>questions:
>
>1.  Is the "Folk of the 80s/..Youth" cd from Oglio REALLY available yet.
>I can't find it listed anywhere.
>
>2.  I've heard that there are several "fan issued" cds of rare/unreleased
>Men Without Hats material.  Does anybody know where I can get these?
>
>Any help would certainly be appreciated.  Thanks.
>
>cheers,
>
>woody
>
>
>
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>
Aaron Gitlin
http://kajjia.home.ml.org
Security, everyone feels better with...


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) NEWS from Ivan's show
Date: 25 Sep 1997 19:52:07 -0400 (EDT)


Hi Angie.

Forget the opening act.  I guess we will have enough stuff with Ivan, so I
prefer if there is no opening part.

Secondly, I will probably go to meet Pierre Gendron next week with Vince for
the contract signature.  But dont worry, everyone on the list will get a copy
of it before I do anything.

I just want to make it clear that this is the show of EVERYONE on the
list!!!!

talk to you later!

Ciao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) TOM NORMAN
Date: 25 Sep 1997 19:57:36 -0400 (EDT)


Hey Tom,

I lost your E-mail, could you get back to me!!??

Francis



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kajjia Goria <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) ICQ
Date: 25 Sep 1997 17:23:09 -0700


Hey all.  I was curious, do any of you hve ICQ?  I think it'd be pretty
spiffy if we all had it.  We could use this as a message board, similar to
it is now, and when we wanted to chat otherwise, ICQ could do it.  Well,
I'll catch ya latez folks.
Aaron Gitlin
http://kajjia.home.ml.org
Security, everyone feels better with...


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) ICQ #
Date: 25 Sep 1997 21:01:09 -0400


 >Hey all.  I was curious, do any of you hve ICQ?  I think it'd be pretty
>spiffy if we all had it.  We could use this as a message board, similar to
>it is now, and when we wanted to chat otherwise, ICQ could do it.  Well,
>I'll catch ya latez folks.

Hi,
everyone.....
my ICQ# is 942966, I think.
I'll leave it up if anyone wants to try and connect.

Tom
[e-mail]






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) the MWH FAQ
Date: 25 Sep 1997 23:35:27 +0000


Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer wrote:
>
> Hi Hatters!!
>
> I just revisited Claude's site, and it keeps getting better and
> better every time I go there!  Fan-tastic!!!!!  ;-)
>
> In case you haven't been there yet, the URL is
>
> http://ww.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html

That's very very nice of you Laura! But I want to correct something
here; it is not Claude's site, it's really the Men Without Hats FAQ
site. I'm not alone in this enormous task. Several members of the list
were (and still are) a great help. Mainly Vince, Jeff and Jim who
contributed tons of links, wrote questions for the history section and
proof-read my bad english! Beside the lack of sleep, I really enjoy
doing this. Thanks again for the free advertisment Laura, and the kind
support...

Today was a great day: 17 e-mails from fellow hatters!!!! Wouhou.

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Col & Neen <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH Guitar chords
Date: 26 Sep 1997 09:43:43 +0100


Anyone out there got any guitar chords/tabs for any MWH songs?  I know
their stuff doesn't really lend itself to being played on the guitar but a
few would (especially from the later albums).  I've worked out End of the
World, Pop goes the World, Ban the Game, Security (sorta), Safety Dance,
SOS (even though it's a cover) and I Sing Last/Not For Tears and would be
happy to share them if anyone is interested.  I read a message the other
day that someone had worked out FOE's which I wouldn't mind a copy of.
Perhaps one of the web sites could start up a song arrangement section?  It
could include guitar & keyboard arrangements and also some MOD or MIDI
files (or any musical file format).
What does everyone think? Are there enough musically minded people on the
list to make this viable?



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) To: [e-mail]
Date: 26 Sep 1997 13:00:49 -0003


    My name is Claudio Jr., I'm brasilian, living in Rio Grande do Sul
state (Porto Alegre city) and is my first time that I send one mail to
this adress. So, i would like so much to speak with everybody of this
list about any MWH questions.
                        Waiting your e-mails....


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) To: [e-mail]
Date: 26 Sep 1997 13:58:53 -0003


    Somebody knows what's the label and the catalog number of the"Excerpts
from Matter (vol III)" - Centrifugal Force - CD ?
    How do I get the "Pop Goes the World" video? Is it out of catalog?
    2-4-1 is very cool... orders can be made trought INTERNET in the
site of the Oglio Records.
    My e-mail is [e-mail]
                                Waiting your e-mail...


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) To: [e-mail]
Date: 26 Sep 1997 13:05:10 +0000


Buenos Dias, Claudio!

Welcome to the list!!  We are glad to have an ambassador from South
America.  Would you like to tell us a bit about yourself?  Age,
interests, favorite Hats song, etc?

:-) Laura

PS to Claude G - ask, and ye shall receive...  ;-)






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) SID files!
Date: 25 Sep 1997 20:28:54 -0400 (EDT)


Woody!

You shouldn't be so quick to assume that nobody uses a Commodore anymore!

This very message is being typed to you on a C128D in C64 mode running
Novaterm v9.6 which was finally released late in 1996 as commercial
grade terminal emulation software instead of just shareware.

I'm a 9 1/2 year veteran Commodore user and if you go to my website you
will find that the Commodore is still very much alive and has a strong
healthy presence on the WWW.  I happen to already have a Pop Goes The
World SID file in my collection.  I'll freak if the next time I fire up
my SIDPlayer I find it's yours!

Um, email me for more info on some of the latest SID-related hardware
developments by Arkanix Labs.  There's a link to their site from mine.
I have C= graphics viewable by a PeeCee and downloadable for C= users
to view offline at my site too.  You gotta check it out.
A lot of absolutely far out things have happened in the past year and
one half to make Commodores more powerful now than they've ever been.
For instance, 20MHz acceleration!  To users of other platforms, that
may not sound like much but since I'm still using the same great
software that ran just fine at the old 1MHz, the performance increase
is incredible!  Especially for GEOS.  I never have to wait on my Commodore
now to respond to clicks from my trackball like I have to on my Pentium-
upgraded 486DX PeeCee at work running WhenDoze 9-to-5.  If you used to
have a good time writing SIDs for the C64, I'll bet you'd really have
fun doing it again now!

Keep in touch!

And I would definitely be interested in getting a copy of your "Safety Dance"
SID.  I've never heard that one!

Myke
http://people.delphi.com/mykec


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) MWH Guitar chords
Date: 26 Sep 1997 22:38:11 -0400 (EDT)


May be what we could do is put our midi files on the MWH F.A.Q. site.

What do you think???

Ciao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) To: [e-mail]
Date: 27 Sep 1997 00:19:06 -0700


Hello.

It is my experience that you cannot order this cd if you live in North
America.  Has this changed?

Rod
Los Angeles

>        2-4-1 is very cool... orders can be made trought INTERNET in the
>site of the Oglio Records.
>        My e-mail is [e-mail]




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Col & Neen <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Spell
Date: 27 Sep 1997 13:02:07 +0100



I've just got my copy of Ivan's new solo album and I'd just like to say
Welcome back!
After the disappointment of Sideways this is a brilliant return to what he
does best - catchy synth pop which was what got me into MWH in the first
place.  Hopefully it will receive the success it deserves - who knows, we
may even see a release over here in the UK.  With the current state of the
pop charts - there are several tracks that would go down well over here.

Col


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers shipment.
Date: 27 Sep 1997 14:13:18 -0400 (EDT)


Hi there

Names below, your stickers are in the mail.

Jeff Schachter
Eric W. Soderblom
Jon f. Stanley
Steven Enz
Keith A. Walker
David Hopman
Andrew J. Pepoy
Daniele Rossi
Tom Norman


To the rest of the stickers list, please mail you payment!!!!  If you need
more informations, E-mail me!

Ciao!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Sideways
Date: 27 Sep 1997 17:05:10 -0400 (EDT)


I don't understand why everyone comes down so hard on Sideways.

I think it's very well put together, and most of the songs are kind of fun.
Different from what we're used to, but still a lot of fun.

Sideways, Fall Down Gently, In the Meadow and KenBarbieLove are constantly
running through my head.   I must admit; however, I do find that screeching
noise in Life After Diamond Head a little grating.

--Bob.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Sideways
Date: 27 Sep 1997 22:48:55 -0400 (EDT)


Hey Bob!

I'd never heard "Sideways" until Lady Laura K. secured one for me during
her visit to Montreal last July.  I bought it from her later.

I think it's a really fine album too and I've told the people on this list
that.  I had read about it and was expecting the worst but once I'd heard
it I was pleasantly surprised!

After the title track, however, I actually think "Life After Diamond Head"
is the kewlest song on the whole CD!

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Pendleton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) First posting
Date: 28 Sep 1997 11:07:05 PDT


Hi,

My name is Alan and I live in Streatham, South West London, and this is
my first posting though I have been on the list for a few months now and
have been following the postings with great interest.

My first introduction to the MWH was on the Peter Powell Show on Radio
1 here in the UK and it was one of the few records which me made stop
was I was doing at just listen in amazement. At the very first oppurnity
I spent my megre pocket money on a copy of the single and was not only
impressed by the a side but the stunning B Side Security. Have been a
fan ever since, though the disapointing Sideways (which cost me 24
pounds on import) has stopped me buying the Spell. Members maybe be
interested that it was on also Peter Powell's Radio show that members of
the public where invited to appear in the I Like Video. If memory serves
it was filmed in a club in Brixton, the Fridge I think, with the
incentive being free drink to anyone turning up but they had to be
prepared to wear make up. I've never seen the video (nor any other
except the safety dance which I saw once in 1983)and would be intersted
in a describution of what happens in the video.

Since then I have been a keen collector of MWH and have a very
impressive collection. As MWH where never very big here in the UK it was
quite easy to pick up records quite cheaply. I now have amongst others 4
copies of the Safety Dance on 12", 3 copies of the I got the message
shaped picture Disc and a copy of FOTE's on CD which I gather is quite
rare. I also once had a copy of the ROY on picture disc which I
foolishily swapped during my youth , and , you may not believe this,
turned down a free copy of the ROY on CD on the grounds that at 15 I did
not have a CD player nor any particular chance of having one. I also
have a vinyl copy of FOTE's with the same side one track listings on
both sides. Is this rare ? Does anyone out there own a copy with the
track listings for side two on both side's ?

I also have a copy of the 7" of Where do the Boy's go which the compiler
of the Discography may be interested to hear is an edit clocking in at
3.34 with the 2.40 version of Eurotheme on the Bside. the cover is the
same as the 12"

Anyway, good luck with your concert next year, would love a copy on
bootleg.

Hope I've said enough about myself, if anyone would like a list  of MWH
collection ( and the possibility of a swap or two) please contact me at
a.pend;[e-mail].


Cheers,
Alan Pendleton

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Josefsson Per-Johan <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) concert songs
Date: 28 Sep 1997 20:54:32 +0200


Hi!

Even though it is pretty unlikely that I will be able to attend to the
concert (I really hope I could, maybe maybe... ), I'd be interested in voting
for songs to be played. Even if I dont go there, I would relly like to get
a recording from it, which means it makes sense for me to submit my wishes.
Could anyone let me know where to do the voting?
Or is it too late?

/PJ.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Survey Sez!
Date: 28 Sep 1997 14:55:51 -0400 (EDT)


15 Favourite Men Without Hats & Ivan Songs of the MWH Mailing List

15. Open Your Eyes
14. Antarctica
13. On Tuesday
12. Moonbeam
11. Great Ones Remember
10. O Solo Mio
 9. Walk on Water
 8. Pop Goes the World
 7. I Got the Message
 6. Messiahs Die Young
 5. Where do the Boys Go?
 4. Living in China
 3. I like
 2. Ideas for Walls

and surprisingly, the number one favourite song:

SAFETY DANCE!!


We had a lot of fun completing the survey and want to thank everyone who
participated.  If you want to see how your favourite song did, please check
out Kris' Web page at www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/4770/concert.html
----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Comments on Survey
Date: 28 Sep 1997 16:07:43 -0400 (EDT)


Comments from Wendy and Kris:

Without going into a lot of statistical analyses, the most popular songs
seem to be off the ROY album. We (the mailing list) don't seem to go as much
for the new Ivan songs on the whole, but maybe that will come with time.
Kris and I both love The Spell now and voted for 4 and 3 songs off it,
respectively.  Kris loves www and put that at the top of his list;
Superbadgirls was my favourite, but ranked on the low end for me.

Comments (paraphrased) from the Respondents (and our replies):

CG: Who are you?
W&K: We're lurkers on the list, mostly.  We live near Vancouver, B.C. and
hope to attend the Ivan concert, but currently we're saving for our wedding
so we might not be able to make it. :(

KW: Perhaps we should have some of the lesser known material.  This (survey)
was hard to do.
K&W: We agree...the more obscure songs are often even better than the ones
that get overplayed.  We found it hard to narrow our choices, too, and it
was difficult to keep track of the number of songs on the survey.  All in
all, this was a huge learning experience for us.

AG: Does anyone know where you can get Security and Utter Space on CD?
W&K: We'll pass this on to the experts on the list.

BJW & CF: That was tough! 15 is so small (to choose).
W&K: Absolutely :)  Took us an hour to narrow our selections down.

SC: With regards to the name: There was a typo on one of the promos, and it
should have been Men Without Hate but they liked the new name and kept it.
W&K: We've heard similar things. Wendy also read on a website that the
original name was "Men Without Names" as they thought it would be lame if
the band seemed to be comprised solely of family members and that eventually
evolved into the current Men Without Hats.  It's definitely a question for Ivan!

PS: Where can you find Heaven recorded?  Surprised to find it on the list.
W&K: Angie herself asked for this to be included...maybe she has a handle on
where you can find the CD...?

SB: What would it sound like if Ivan did some Gowan songs, I wonder.
W$K: The more we thought about this, the more we liked the idea of Ivan
doing a cover of Strange Animal.  Not sure how Ivan would feel about it,
though  :)

CS: Can hardly wait :)
W&K: We're psyched, too. :)

B: Do you have the email address for Ivan, Stefan and Pinkus?  I used to
tour with the lads...
W&K: Wish we could help you.  If we knew his addy, you can bet his inbox
would be full of gushings from Wendy. :)


CP: Where, when, how much?
W&K: Doh! We've lost all the arrangements that have been made so far.  It
will be in Montreal some time next spring (nothing's finalized so far).
Looks like just over 100 people are going and the ticket prices (which are
reflected by the number of people who are attending) will be about $30.  But
don't quote us on that!

F, CF, KW, BH: Thanks for putting the survey together.
W&K: Thank you!  We loved the chance to practice html coding and enjoyed
having the opportunity to be involved with the concert, be it in a very
small way.
----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) First posting
Date: 28 Sep 1997 19:32:49 -0400



>I also have a copy of the 7" of Where do the Boy's go which the compiler
>of the Discography may be interested to hear is an edit clocking in at
>3.34 with the 2.40 version of Eurotheme on the Bside. the cover is the
>same as the 12"

there's another version of "Eurotheme"???

:)


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Survey Sez!
Date: 28 Sep 1997 23:13:51 +0000


[e-mail] wrote:
>
> 15 Favourite Men Without Hats & Ivan Songs of the MWH Mailing List
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 15. Open Your Eyes
> ...
> and surprisingly, the number one favourite song:
>
> SAFETY DANCE!!

This, for me, is a nightmare come through! Not because of what's in, but
because of what's not!!!! If this really reflect the taste of the member
of this list (that's what this message proclaims) then MWH is truely
perceived as a one album band, even by its most devoted fans! The two
albums which received most of the votes are those including the hit
singles (Rhythm, 171 votes out of 561, and Pop Goes the World, 132
votes). The only song from the early days (Freeways/Folk of the 80's)
who made the top 15 was a song included on Rhythm of Youth! What about
Security?????? And Freeways????????????? ...In The 21st Century and
Sideways were heavily ignored. I could understand that from someone who
goes by the hit-parade charts, but from peoples who are supposed to love
that band!!!
I understand that most of the people will be against me (you voted for
that after all) and I accept that. This is a question of taste, mine
must be going sideways. The thing is, none of my 5 favorite MWH songs
made the top 15 (You and I, Folk of the 80's, Security, The Spell, All
We do)!

> We had a lot of fun completing the survey and want to thank everyone who
> participated.  If you want to see how your favourite song did, please check
> out Kris' Web page

They did bad. I would like to know who voted! 561 votes were cast. If
everybody voted for 15 songs, that means 37.4 voters. What about the 63
others? We're suppose to be around 100 attending that concert!

Or maybe everybody voted, but for just 5 songs each! It would have been
nice to have a pointing system, making your number one choice worth more
points than your 15th one. I'm sure the results would have been more
representative of the list's tastes (wishfull thinking). How come Laura
was not asked to compile this thing? She's the expert! She did a survey
similar to this on the list 2 years ago and she was quite generous with
her explanations of the results. Here, I feel I'm missing somethin'.
Don't forget this show probably will be a once in a life time, it
deserve to be treated more seriously! Well, I can always listen to the
records...

Change of subject. The FAQ site (
http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html ) is doing pretty well. I
added some new links and upgraded the family page (a must see).
Regarding this, if some of you know were I could find pictures of some
of these peoples tell me. If some of you wants to write an entry for
some of this peoples, your welcomed to do so (my e-mail won't change for
a long time).

One last thing, I made banners to promote the FAQ site on the web. If
some of you want to use one of those banners to use as a link to the
site from your home page, feel free to do so. The banners are 40X400,
less than 4k. You'll see the english one at
http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/mwhle.gif and the french one at
http://www.total.net/~gigarpus/mwhre.gif

Lavons nous les mains au lieu de pleurer...

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marty McKolskey" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Survey Sez!
Date: 29 Sep 1997 02:22:08 PDT


Man, my email gets screwed up for a couple of weeks, and look what I
miss!  Concert?  Survey?  I checked out the list of survey results, and
I'd like to say that I would have included All We Do.  (Even though its
too late now [sniff sniff]).

I'm sorry I missed the whole thing, but my (horribly late and terribly
long-winded) two-cents worth on the issue:

(for reference, the list is at the bottom of this post)

1. The list seems to reflect on who's here:
   - the "purists" seem to rule, being the ones who feel that the
     ROY-FOTEIII era was the best, and thus reign over the top 7 or
     so
   - then the PGTW fans come on a strong second, wrapping up the next
     several
   - followed by the two bookends, those that love the REALLY OLD
     stuff, and those that love the REALLY NEW.
   Oddly enough, anyone could've predicted these results, give or
   take.

2. I suppose another way to look at it would be this:
   - The top song drags along two other songs located on the
     same side (of the cassette/LP) and three on the flipside,
     revealing a) everyone bought ROY, and b) everyone, at one point,
     listened primarily to Safety Dance, and the other songs followed
     as the album continued
   - ROY fans love FOTEIII(album), but there were no big radio
     singles to latch onto
   - PGTW(song) was the reason everyone got PGTW(album), and then the
     other most radio-ready songs followed, led by the songs after
     PGTW(song) and the other singles; however, the album still
     alienated afew, if even for a while, which places it a little
     lower in our combined hearts (although it's still my fave)
   - The other two songs (Antarctica and Open your Eyes) are the most
     common ones fans would want to defend; many give up on
     Sideways(album) and ...21st Century, but it's downright rude to
     leave out the band's beginnings and the latest effort -- so they
     get thrown in, because you can't ignore them

3. I don't actually know what the voting procedure was, but I'm
   guessing each person voted their favorite top 15 songs.  So, if
   I'd been able to vote (sigh), I would have chosen these:
      1 Lose My Way
      2 All We Do
      3 On Tuesday
      4 The End (of the World)
      5 Sideways
      6 Moonbeam
      7 Where Do the Boys Go?
      8 Kenbarbielove
      9 Messiahs Die Young
     10 In the Name of Angels
     11 Freeways (the 7:46 mix)
     12 Folk of the '80s (Part III)
     13 In the Meadow
     14 Jenny Wore Black
     15 Here Come the 90's
   And what does this reveal about me?  I'm a blatant PGTW fanatic,
   who has gone on to love the rest of the album more than the
   brilliant hit single.  I got into ROY late, and love it as a whole,
   but no one song in particular.  I got into the later albums first,
   and so love ...21st Century and Sideways.  I was so excited to find
   FOTEIII after three years of looking in California, that I grew
   VERY attached to it.  As for Freeways -- the subject of a future
   post.

</marty>
[e-mail]

15. Open Your Eyes
14. Antarctica
13. On Tuesday
12. Moonbeam
11. Great Ones Remember
10. O Solo Mio
 9. Walk on Water
 8. Pop Goes the World
 7. I Got the Message
 6. Messiahs Die Young
 5. Where do the Boys Go?
 4. Living in China
 3. I like
 2. Ideas for Walls
 1. SAFETY DANCE!!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Josefsson Per-Johan <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) really old
Date: 29 Sep 1997 11:29:14 +0200


Hi!

I got the idea we could take the 3 most woted song from each album plus
the 3 most voted non album songs (incl FOT80I). That would do 21 songs.
But maybe not so good idea....

Another thought is: why dont we ask for the really old stuff, the demos????

/PJ.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marty McKolskey" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Instructions for the perfect 7min/46sec night drive.
Date: 29 Sep 1997 02:51:59 PDT



The Perfect Seven-Minute-Forty-Six-Second Night Drive
(and how to make the Freeways 7:46 Mix)

Ingredients:
   - A copy of the Freeways Euromix on LP (either on the PGTW 12" or
     Moonbeam 12") -- it should be 5:45
   - A record player that can handle 33RPM
   - A recording device: meaning a cassette player, or a CD-R if
     you're more fortunate than I
   - A blank tape (or blank CD, yadda yadda yadda)
   - A car that can be driven at night and is equipped with the
     appropriate audio playback device
   - A foggy night (actually, any night will do, but fog just makes it
     cooler)
   - A cool road to drive on
   - A fellow MWH fan to drive with (but driving alone will do if
     that's too tall an order)

Directions:
   - Prepare the record player for recording to the recording device
   - Prepare the blank recording medium for recording (tape/CD-R)
   - Place the 12" Freeways Euromix on the record player
   - Note that the track is meant to be played back at 45RPM, a fact
     that I neglected to notice (much to my subsequent pleasure)
   - Test recording levels ON ANOTHER TRACK
   - Set the system to record with the volume turned off, so as not
     to spoil the effect later (okay, okay, you can listen if you have
     to, or if you're paranoid about recording, or if you're just not
     that big on suspense, but it's better if you DON'T)
   - Record Freeways at 33RPM, turning the 5:45 version into a 7:46
     version
   - Wait until the appropriate time to drive (night, plus fog or
     rain, if you've got it)
   - Place the newly recorded Freeways 7:46 Mix into the playback
     device in your car
   - Get in the car with your MWH partner, if any
   - Start car, and proceed to cool road
   - Playback song

Best enjoyed on mellow nights, especially on long endless straightaway
roadways.  Enjoy!

</marty>

½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½½
½ American radio, in your homes and bars. ½
╗ It's music to my ears in a foreign car. ╗
╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗╗[e-mail]


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Josefsson Per-Johan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Survey Sez!
Date: 28 Sep 1997 21:14:30 +0200


Seems I got the answer right away, it was too late....
Well, my votes would not have changed the top 15. Good choices anyway!
A couple of years ago Laura made something called "The mini survey".
Its fun to study the differences. That time Safety Dance did not win!

I post my saved copy in case any one is interested (hope its ok for you Laura,
it is also available in the list archive so I guess it would be).

/PJ.



----- Begin Included Message -----


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that says:     'unsubscribe hats'       in the body of the message.
======================================================================
Really-From: "Laura Kramer" <[e-mail]>

Hi again everyone!

Thanks to the 35 people who responded.  Wow!!

First a disclaimer...

This is not a scientific survey.  We've got what is called "sampling
bias" all over the place.  Generally, when you do a _scientific_
survey, you figure out ahead of time what kinds of people you want
to include (like proportion of males v females, age groups,
ethnicity, etc), and then sample randomly from within those groups
(this is called stratified random sampling, in case anyone is keeping
score). Since you volunteered to respond to the survey, this sample
is non-random, non-stratified, non-purposive (big meaningless words
unless you're a stats person).  Therefore, these results can't be
taken as anything more than amusing and informative to us, fans of
Men Without Hats (and maybe Ivan, if he's thinking about coming up
with some more tunes for us!).

We are oversampling ("hearing from too many people who are")
technologically oriented people - generally if you're on the Info
Super Highway, you're probably a guy, you probably work with
computers for a living, and you've probably been to college or
university.  I'm checking with a friend at IBM to see what kind of
demographic stats he's heard about for Internet users, but the
general trend is as described above.  But don't tell my hubby (who
doesn't know anything about survey sampling!), who will be taking me
out to dinner after I show him the survey results which contradict
his comments that Mw/oH are "dumb" and "puerile" and we must be
"stupid" to spend time and money to track down their music.  (And I
married him anyway!)  Basically, if you're on the Internet, you're
smarter than the average bear, but I'm still working on finding out
how smart the average Internet bear is. :-)

And to those who expressed concern that I was taking highest degree
completed as a sign of "smarts" - yes, I know that there are many
facets to intelligence, and that "school smarts" or "book smarts"
are only a small portion of it.  However, number of years of
education and IQ are two of the "single best predictors" of general
intellectual functioning.  Since it would be way rude to ask you
your IQ, and I can't test each of you individually, and I'd get
response bias if I just asked, "How smart are you?" I took the easy
way out and asked an objective question "What is your highest degree
of education completed?"  Hope no one was too offended.  ;-)

Last comment: I think it was Benjamin Disraeli who said, "There are
three kinds of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."

Enjoy!

Based on 35 respondents, except where otherwise indicated.

Gender:  32 males and 3 females
   * this is subject to the "internet bias" mentioned above.  Net
surfers are generally guys.

Age:  Average age is 27 years
         Median age is 26 years
         Oldest respondents are over 40 but younger than 50
         Youngest are between 18 and 21
  * 1 person did not respond
  * "Mean" is the arithmetic average, "Median" is the middle data
point when the data are ordered from highest to lowest.
  * Ranges are reported to prevent identification of individual
sample members when there are less than 3 people in a category.

Where we are:
         26 live in the US
              7 live out West (Pacific time zone)
              5 live in the Midwest (Central and Mountain time zones)
              7 live in the South or mid-Atlantic states (south of
                   the Mason-Dixon line)
              7 live in the North-East and New England.
           8 live abroad, mostly in Europe
  * 1 person did not respond

Only 6 of us have seen Mw/oH perform live, but there were 4 missed
opportunities!  Apparently Ivan et al. cancelled a few appearances,
much to our dismay.  Most of us caught up with the band here in the
US.

Education:
      We all completed High School, and many are currently in college
          or university.
      14 have completed a 2, 4 or 5 year degree (AA, BA, BS, BFA)
      10 have graduate or professional degrees (MA, MS, MFA, MBA,
          PhD)
  * 1 person did not respond
  * Remember numbers are not reported when there are less than 3
people in a category; degree recipients are lumped together for the
same reason.

 Our Favorite Songs:
Title                  # of people who picked it
Walk on Water               9
I Like                              8
Pop Goes the World      8
 Safety Dance                 7
You and Me                   5
O Sole Mio                    4

Picked by 3 people:
   Eloise and I, End of the World, Ideas for Walls, Jenny Wore Black,
Security, Things in my Life, Where do the Boys Go?

Honorable Mentions:
  Antarctica, Ban the Game, Bright Side of the Sun, Everybody's
Selling Something, Folk of the 80s, Harry Crews, Here Come the 90s,
Hey Men, I Got the Message, I Know their Name, I Sing Last, In the
21st Century, Jenny's Waltz, Messiahs Die Young, Modern Dancing,
Moonbeam, Mother's Opinion, No Dancing, Not for Tears, On Tuesday,
Sideways, The Great Ones Remember, Underneath the Rainbow,
Unsatisfaction.

Makes me want to run home and turn the stereo up REALLY LOUD!

* 1 person did not respond


How we Rate the Albums...
  Ok, I had to come up with a way to handle missing data (if you
didn't have an album or hadn't heard all of it).  I asked you to code
it a 0, but I didn't want to use that number in the data analyses.
So if you only had 5 albums rated, I had to figure out a way to
stretch your ratings out over 6 slots.  There were two ways to do
this, and they didn't give very different results.  I'll show you
both...
   The first way was to make your favorite album a "1" and your least
fave a "6", and split the rest of the rating up evenly across that.
With this scheme, the person who rated 5 albums would have
      1          2         3         4           5
  still 1    2.25      3.5      4.75    now 6

and 4 albums would be 1, 2.33, 4.66, and 6
3 albums would be 1, 3.5, and 6,
and 2 would be 1 and 6.  Get it?  It's a lot easier to understand
than it was to come up with!!

The other way to treat the missing data was to still stretch the
ratings out evenly, but not use the whole 6 point range.  Especially
for people who only rated 2 or three albums, the whole 1-6 thing
might have distorted their ratings.  The re-coding for 5 albums
stayed the same under this plan.

4 albums went 1.2, 2.4, 3.6, 4.8
3 albums went 1.5, 3, 4.5
and 2 albums went 2 and 5

The two plans gave quite similar results.

Remember a low score means "more favoritest"

                              Plan A                     Plan B
                     Mean      Median       Mean    Median
Folk 80's         3.83       4                 3.83         4
ROY               2.29       2.13            2.26         2.13
Folk part 3     3.38       3.5              3.36         3.5
Pop GTW      2.34       2                 2.32         2
21st C            4.23       4.66            4.08         4
Sideways       5.27        6                 5.24         6

*20 people did not rate Folk of the 80s, 4 did not rate Folk of the
80s part III, 6 did not rate Sideways, 1 did not rate ROY, and 1 did
not rate Pop Goes the World.

These results reflect what we've been seeing on the list, that a lot
of us were kind of disappointed by Sideways.  17 people gave it the
lowest rating for their set, and only one gave it the highest.  By
comparison, PGTW received 13 highest marks and only 1 lowest mark;
and ROY got 14 highest and 3 lowest.

PGTW and ROY are the favorite albums of this group as a whole (which
is first depends on which rating scheme you look at for mean scores).
Good data theorists would insist that we look only at medians for
this data, since it was rank-ordering.  Looking at the medians, PGTW
comes in first, then ROY, then F80s3.  These median ratings are
stable across re-coding plan.   F80s and 21stC are tied under one
plan, but under the other, F80s sneaks ahead.  Looking at the means
would put F80s ahead under either case.  And no matter how you look
at it, Sideways brings up the rear.  Hey, this was fun!  I really
miss teaching statistics!!

What other music we like...

We are all over the place on this one!  There were two groups
mentioned by 3 different people: Depeche Mode and Erasure.  I'll
give them a listen!

7 other groups were mentioned more than once:
  Front 242, Icehouse, Jethro Tull, Kraftwerk, Rush, Steely Dan, and
Yello.
My hubby likes Tull and Rush, and is horrified by the implication
that he (in theory) might like something by Mw/oH.  Ha!

The other umpty-two bazillion groups mentioned tended to be in the
retro or pop categories.  Some hard rock, oldies, punk, and jazz were
mentioned also.  I'm working with a friend who is really in to all
kinds of divergent music to help me categorize this.  I may put it
out later as to what categories we mostly go for.

Honorable Mention groups: Andy Pickford, Anything Box, Beatles, Big
Country, Blondie, Buddy Holly, Chris DeBurgh, Cold Chisel, Crash
Test Dummies, Cure, Dead Can Dance, Duran Duran, Ed's Redeeming
Qualities, Gary Numan, Genesis, Glenn Miller, Helloween, James, John
Mellencamp, Kate Bush, Legenday Pink Dots, Madness, Marillion, Mark
Shreeve, Meatloaf, Metallica, Metamora, Nancy Griffith, Nine Inch
Nails, October Project, Pet Shop Boys, Propoganda, Radiohead, Robert
Palmer, Shriekback, Simple Minds, Single Gun Theory, Skinny Puppy,
Slade, Stewart Copeland, Talk Talk, Talking Heads, The Cars, The
Kinks, The Who, They Might Be Giants, Thomas Dolby, Ultravox, Yes,
and Zappa/Mothers of Invention.

Whew!  I feel a trip to Blockbuster Music coming on!

Again, thanks to everyone who responded.  I gained a lot of insight
into my fellow Mw/oH fans, and it was kinda fun taking a stroll down
memory lane.  I still email a bunch of friends from high school (when
I was totally obsessed by Mw/oH - I had their logo on ALL my book
covers), and they can't believe that our numbers are legion.


Toodle-oo!

:-) Laura
If you want a room with a view, you need ideas for walls...



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lazlo Nibble" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Folk of the 80s/Youth
Date: 29 Sep 1997 09:04:21 -0600 (MDT)


> To all, and mostly Lazlo, is their a way to inform new comers of the
> existence of the FAQ site BEFORE they ask frequently asked questions????

I can mention it in the list info message if you like.

--
::: Lazlo ([e-mail]; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Folk of the 80s/Youth
Date: 29 Sep 1997 11:15:57 +0000


Lazlo Nibble wrote:
>
> > To all, and mostly Lazlo, is their a way to inform new comers of the
> > existence of the FAQ site BEFORE they ask frequently asked questions????
>
> I can mention it in the list info message if you like.

If you think that's the best way, go for it. If you think there are some
weaknesses in the FAQ site that prevent it from deserving full exposure
(like your discography for example) tell me. I'll be happy to make
adjustments...

Thanks for the support...

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) Just me
Date: 29 Sep 1997 11:21:15 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everyone, I'm back, just in case you wondered where I've been.

I just want to comment on the "MWH Songs" web site that Wendy & Kris put
together for us.  It was a nice job, something they took upon themselves
to do for the benefit of the list.  While others were telling me not to
bother, they came through and produced what I had in mind.

Being relatively new to the list, I was not aware that a survey of list-
members had been done 2 years ago by Dr. Laura.  I have just finished
reading the re-posting of the survey's results, and I was impressed with
its attention to detail and scientific/statistical analysis.  Since we
have over half a year before this concert takes place (probably in June
1998), I would be pleased to see another such survey before the concert
takes place,  Again we will include a vote for your 10 or 15 favorite
songs, but this time we will weigh them according to personal importance.
Then we will be sure that our survey will have come out as accurately as
possible.  Of course, somebody must be willing to take the time to produce
such a survey, and since I have no knowledge of web-site creation, stats,
or accurate determination and compilation of results, I will throw the
suggestion out to all of you and whoever is willing to catch it may run
with it as he or she pleases.  It is true that this will be a once-in-
a-lifetime event and we should approach it with as much care and consideration
as possible to ensure its success!

At any rate, I heartily thank Wendy and Kris for developing the "songs" site.

Bye for now!!!

Angie




--

 #



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brad Hull <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: Survey Sez
Date: 29 Sep 1997 12:38:13 -0400


Claude wrote:
>This, for me, is a nightmare come through! Not because of what's in, but
because of what's not!!!!<

I must agree with Claude's assessment of the voting results.  Although the
idea was/is great in concept, the results definitely do not reflect what I
was hoping to see.  I imagine that most of us DID vote for some of the more
"well known" songs (7 on my list did make the cut), but after that we all
have very different "favourites" from the vast collection of less "well
known" songs.  This would very easily contribute to the results as posted.

Personally, I voted for songs from ALL the albums (FOTE - 1, ROY - 3,
FOTEIII- 3, PGTW - 2, 21st - 2, Sideways - 1, Spell - 3) and am VERY
disappointed to see the lack of representation from some of the albums.  Of
the 7 songs I voted for that made the cut, only 3 rank in my top 10 fav MWH
songs of all time.  This is BAD! (once again, my personal opinion only)

PLEASE - let's take this voting to the next level where we all can do some
ranking of the importance of each song.  I understand that it is hard
enough to come up with what 15 songs we would each like to hear the most,
let alone RANKING them, but I have no doubt that allowing for this would
significantly change the results!

Just my $0.02 (Cdn) worth.
Brad Hull
[e-mail]


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Oh, by the way...
Date: 29 Sep 1997 14:20:11 +0000


Me again!

When you're listing your songs, if there is more than one version,
say which one you mean.  Examples:
  Antarctica - ROY    or  Antarctica - F80s
  Safety Dance - Extended   or   Safety Dance - Regular

If you do not specify, Dr. Laura will pick the version she likes the
best.  ;-)

Bye4now - off to set up a data table...

;-) L


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Survey Sez!
Date: 29 Sep 1997 18:47:42 UT


Criminy, folks, quit yer whining about the fifteen songs!  How many times have
you been to a concert and gotten to hear your fave three songs, and a bunch of
their new crap?  Case in point U2 this past summer.  Everyone was aware of
what they were voting for and what the purpose was.  I as well have some
obscure Mw/oH faves but realized that the chance of them making the list or
winning was slim (i.e. Dukakis for you hemorrhaging valentines out there).  On
a similar note I don't want to inflict MY personal wants for the playlist on
people who don't agree or care for the songs I like.  THIS FIFTEEN WAS WHY WE
VOTED.  Not so you could have YOUR personal favorites, but so that the LIST
could pick it's favorites.  These schemes for rating, and top five, et cetera
only serve to skew the results.  Looks good to me, and to all those who put in
the effort, THANK YOU.

Cordially,

Rush
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$  "A is A:  The basic premise of Reason."  $$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


This, for me, is a nightmare come through! Not because of what's in, but
because of what's not!!!! If this really reflect the taste of the member
of this list (that's what this message proclaims) then MWH is truely
perceived as a one album band, even by its most devoted fans! The two
albums which received most of the votes are those including the hit
singles (Rhythm, 171 votes out of 561, and Pop Goes the World, 132
votes). The only song from the early days (Freeways/Folk of the 80's)
who made the top 15 was a song included on Rhythm of Youth! What about
Security?????? And Freeways????????????? ...In The 21st Century and
Sideways were heavily ignored. I could understand that from someone who
goes by the hit-parade charts, but from peoples who are supposed to love
that band!!!
I understand that most of the people will be against me (you voted for
that after all) and I accept that. This is a question of taste, mine
must be going sideways. The thing is, none of my 5 favorite MWH songs
made the top 15 (You and I, Folk of the 80's, Security, The Spell, All
We do)!
They did bad. I would like to know who voted! 561 votes were cast. If
everybody voted for 15 songs, that means 37.4 voters. What about the 63
others? We're suppose to be around 100 attending that concert!

Or maybe everybody voted, but for just 5 songs each! It would have been
nice to have a pointing system, making your number one choice worth more
points than your 15th one. I'm sure the results would have been more
representative of the list's tastes (wishfull thinking). How come Laura
was not asked to compile this thing? She's the expert! She did a survey
similar to this on the list 2 years ago and she was quite generous with
her explanations of the results. Here, I feel I'm missing somethin'.
Don't forget this show probably will be a once in a life time, it
deserve to be treated more seriously! Well, I can always listen to the
records...



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Just me
Date: 29 Sep 1997 18:58:19 UT


Oh, here we go.  Guys, the point of voting was not to obtain a nice
representation off of all of the albums, not was it to get some obscure stuff
that Ivan himself probably hasn't played since the album came out, the point
was to get what the vast majority of people wanted to hear live.  I think even
with the list as it stands, once Ivan makes deletions and contractual
obligations come up (the Spell), the list will suffer from the majority
viewpoint anyway.  It doesn't make sense to jump through hoops to get some
crazy permutations of Ivan's music.  Commentary???

Cordially,

Rush
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$  "A is A:  The basic premise of Reason."  $$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Being relatively new to the list, I was not aware that a survey of list-
members had been done 2 years ago by Dr. Laura.  I have just finished
reading the re-posting of the survey's results, and I was impressed with
its attention to detail and scientific/statistical analysis.  Since we
have over half a year before this concert takes place (probably in June
1998), I would be pleased to see another such survey before the concert
takes place,  Again we will include a vote for your 10 or 15 favorite
songs, but this time we will weigh them according to personal importance.
Then we will be sure that our survey will have come out as accurately as
possible.  Of course, somebody must be willing to take the time to produce
such a survey, and since I have no knowledge of web-site creation, stats,
or accurate determination and compilation of results, I will throw the
suggestion out to all of you and whoever is willing to catch it may run
with it as he or she pleases.  It is true that this will be a once-in-
a-lifetime event and we should approach it with as much care and consideration
as possible to ensure its success!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Survey...
Date: 29 Sep 1997 14:14:03 +0000


Hi everyone!

By popular demand, I offer my services as a statistics-type person to
help with the play-list vote.

Please email me with your top twenty songs, in order from
    1 [I will absolutely die if they don't play this song]   to
   20 [I hope they play this, but I won't cry if they don't].

[Note: I am purposely oversampling on the number of songs that people
can vote for. ]

Rules...

1.  Send your responses to [e-mail] or risk not having
your vote counted!  If you send it to my work address, our server is
unreliable (to say the least), and Dr. Laura might not get your
message.  You can also send a paper ballot.  If you want to do this
instead, contact me privately for my home address if you don't have
it somewhere already.

2.  You may vote ONCE and have it count.  This is not Chicago.  ;-)
Dr. Laura will keep track of who has voted, so if you send Dr. Laura
a second list, it will REPLACE your first list.  (Dr. Laura
understands that sometimes people change their minds.)

3.  If you have fewer than 20 songs, that's fine.  Dr. Laura will take
care of that statistically.  If you list more than 20 songs, Dr.
Laura will take care of that with the DELETE button.

4.  If there are two songs that are tied in your estimation, please
indicate that.  For example,
     1.  My favorite song
     2.  My second favorite song
     3.  My next two favorite songs that I can't decide which I would
          miss more...
     5.  (please note that I skipped #4, since that was listed next
          to #3) my next favorite song
     6.  my next favorite song, etc.

5.  List a song only once.  For example, do not say
    1.  Safety Dance
    2.  Safety Dance
    3.  Safety Dance
    4.  Safety Dance
This will only make Dr. Laura angry.  ;-)

6.  You may include any MWH or Ivan song.  You might want to use
Wendy's very comprehensive list as a guide.

Since some people are on digest, and people might not have access to
email on a daily or even weekly basis, I will collect data from now
until Halloween (October 31) if that is OK with Angie and Francis,
our big concert promoters.  ;-)

Mmmmm, data!!  :-)

Finally, does anyone else want to get in on the T-shirt re-orders?
If you have already emailed me and I have said, "OK, you're on the
re-order list," you don't need to re-email.  Again, send to
[e-mail]

Hope to hear from you soon!

:-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Antarctica!
Date: 29 Sep 1997 20:10:06 -0400 (EDT)


There's another version of Antarctica rather than the RoY version??
Does anyone have it as an MP3 or WAV? I want to hear it!

                                                           Thanks.
                                                            Nikolai


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) Commentary
Date: 29 Sep 1997 18:46:02 -0400 (EDT)




I don't think "The Spell" will be an issue in the contractual obligations
that will be tied to this show.  Francis is making sure that the contract
we draw up between us and Ivan's management includes a clause regarding
the songs we want to hear.  In other words, Ivan's manager is perfectly
aware of our desire to hear almost nothing but Men Without Hats material
on the day of the concert, and the contract will ensure that the playlist
will be geared toward what we would like to hear. This is how I heard it
from Francis; please respond, Francis, if I misunderstood you.

I think the old and new survey results will give Ivan a really good idea
of what kind of an audience he will be entertaining if he should choose
to accept the offer.

Sincerely yours,
Angie


--

 #



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Survey
Date: 29 Sep 1997 23:38:40 -0400 (EDT)


Sorry all of you were so disappointed with the survey results.  Kris worked
hard on the site and I put in a lot of time helping with the tabulation.

Claude, you were the main critic.  Perhaps, you could have developed
something better than we did.  You didn't.  It's nice to be able to sit back
and complain, isn't it.

Since our input was obviously useless, I'm sure you will all be very happy
to see us leave the list.

Wendy
----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kajjia Goria <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Survey
Date: 29 Sep 1997 21:10:20 -0700



> I voted for Security, Freeways, and my fav - Things in my Life and I was
> reeeeaaaallllyyy disappointed.  Oh well, I guess just seeing them in
> concert will be good enough for me.

Aaron Gitlin
http://kajjia.home.ml.org
Security, everyone feels better with...


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: * <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) don't leave!!!
Date: 30 Sep 1997 00:54:48 +0000


Wendy !!! (& Kris) DONT LEAVE!!!!
We're all grateful for all your hard work!!!!
I think Claude was just surprised (like i was ) at the song choices from
the 37 individuals that took part (myself included)
I think you guys did an incredible job- and it is certainly nothing
personal when some of us werent too happy with the song selections- oh
well- (big deal)
Lets face it - we can't tell Ivan what songs he has to perform, we can
maybe suggest what we'd like to hear- its really up to Ivan to decide
Im just happy to be taking part in this concert. (period)
peace
(and thanks again for such an amzing survey, regardless if the results
werent to All our taste)

:)
wolfgang


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kajjia Goria <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hey Men
Date: 29 Sep 1997 22:12:57 -0700


I wsa just listening to "Hey Men" and I was curous, what is the last line?
"Take it away ??????"

Aaron Gitlin
http://kajjia.home.ml.org
Security, everyone feels better with...


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Sideways
Date: 30 Sep 1997 00:31:14 -0500


Here I come back from a rather disappointing vacation and I find two
postings praising Sideways!!  It does my heart good. . .   As those
regulars would know, I am something of a Sideways fan, myself, and I
always enjoy reading thoughts on this much maligned album.  As I was
groaning by the sea in  Cozumel, however, it did occur to me that most
of the themes played with on Sideways are dealt with much more darkly on
The Spell (i.e. SuperBadGirls REVOLVES around negative religious
imagry).  Not to put down the album, but is The Spell getting a more
positive rap because it sounds boppier?  Frankly (although I like the
album very much, just as I do all of Ivan's work), I find the experience
of The Spell to be much more depressing than I found Sideways.  Of
course, I  am talking solely about lyrics, here (a subjective thing, to
be sure), but I would like to know if am completely off base!

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Re: Survey Sez!
Date: 30 Sep 1997 00:39:42 -0500


I must admit that I, too, am a bit disappointed in the results for the
survey. . . .  But not because of what was chosen or not chosen!  What
bothers me are the reports of over 300 people voting!!  As I recall from
the postings, only about 100 of us are planning on going to the concert.
Where did the other 200 come from?  Did, in fact, only 100 (or so)
people vote, or were many trying to stack the vote for the bootlegs?  I
think that the people who will actualy be attending should get the
lion's share of the vote, if for no other reason than we will be the
ones putting out the big bucks to see the show :).

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Re:  Hey Men
Date: 30 Sep 1997 01:20:17 -0500


I had always thought of the line as "Take it away, Ermways".  No, this
didn't make any sense to me, really; but, I thought "Ermways" might be a
brand-name of guitar?  Of course, I have always been a bit mystified by
the "epilouge" to "Hey, Men" (what the heck is "Some of us were fishes,
some of us were worms" supposed to mean, anyway -- especially since the
plural of "fish" is "fish" [am I right, Dr. Laura?]) and I figured that
the last line kinda' played into the whole nonsensical mellieu. . . .  I
realize that this is a bad offical stand to have on a critical point,
but I do believe that, sometimes, things aren't supposed to make sence!

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric W. Soderblom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Survey
Date: 30 Sep 1997 00:22:02 -0700


Can we say sarcastic???

 >
> Since our input was obviously useless, I'm sure you will all be very
happy
> to see us leave the list.
>
> Wendy



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Antarctica!
Date: 29 Sep 1997 20:19:13 -0400 (EDT)


Nick, Nick, Nick...

You've already got the original version of "Antarctica" on the VHS audio
tape I made for you!  It's, I believe, the 3rd song on the whole tape.
The original version was released on the original Fot80s EP in 1980!

Did I not send an index to you for that tape?

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) Survey...
Date: 30 Sep 1997 02:13:34 -0700


Hey men...
(and women)

Didn't we just have a survey...

Who can vote in this one, and what is the purpose, please.

Are you seriously going to tell Ivan what songs to play in concert?  As a
musician (especially if I had a new album that I had been working on for
two years and no one wanted to hear it) I would be quite offended if
someone did that to me.  Maybe he has a better sense of humour, however.
To me it seems like, "show up here, play these songs and we'll pay you,
and never mind what you want..."

I think the new album's terrific.

I can't go to the show since I live in California (unless you do one in
Vancouver too), so please decide who can vote.  Is it a 'concert requests"
only, (was the last one?) or a mailing list top twenty  (or whatever).

Best wishes,
Rod
Los Angeles



>By popular demand, I offer my services as a statistics-type person to
>help with the play-list vote.
>
>Please email me with your top twenty songs, in order from
>    1 [I will absolutely die if they don't play this song]   to
>   20 [I hope they play this, but I won't cry if they don't].




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Ian Ingham)
Subject: Re: (hats) Re:  Hey Men
Date: 30 Sep 1997 08:58:07 -0500


This subject was brought up a while ago... methinks someone mentioned
that it might be pig latin for "worms" (orm-ways).

Just a thought...

ian


> I had always thought of the line as "Take it away, Ermways".  No, this
> didn't make any sense to me, really; but, I thought "Ermways" might be a
> brand-name of guitar?  Of course, I have always been a bit mystified by
> the "epilouge" to "Hey, Men" (what the heck is "Some of us were fishes,
> some of us were worms" supposed to mean, anyway -- especially since the
> plural of "fish" is "fish" [am I right, Dr. Laura?]) and I figured that
> the last line kinda' played into the whole nonsensical mellieu. . . .  I
> realize that this is a bad offical stand to have on a critical point,
> but I do believe that, sometimes, things aren't supposed to make sence!


Ian Ingham
Phone: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
E-Mail: [e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Survey...
Date: 30 Sep 1997 10:42:39 +0000


rod wrote:
> Didn't we just have a survey...
> Who can vote in this one, and what is the purpose, please.
> I can't go to the show since I live in California (unless you do one in
> Vancouver too), so please decide who can vote.  Is it a 'concert requests"
> only, (was the last one?) or a mailing list top twenty  (or whatever).

I think Rod as a big point here. It seems we have a tendency to rush
things on this list (except when it come to entries on the who's who
list ;o). Before redoing this, we should agree on certain things. 1) Who
can vote? 2) How do we vote? 3) What should be the deadline? 3) Who will
compile the results? 4) How will the results be compiled? 5) How and
where the results will be publish? Some peoples on this list seems more
willing to put a lot of energy on these things (Wendy, Kriss, Laura).
Let's work this thing together and everything will turn out for the
best. We have more than seven months in front of us! I think we should
consider this before deciding on a very early deadline date. This list
is somewhat alive, we loose some and we gain some. I think future new
members should not be evacuate of that process because they were made
aware of the concert and the survey one week after the deadline!

> Are you seriously going to tell Ivan what songs to play in concert?

Rod, the way I understand it, that's the deal we have with Ivan's
management.

> As a musician (especially if I had a new album that I had been working on for
> two years and no one wanted to hear it) I would be quite offended if
> someone did that to me.

The thing is, it's not that no one wants to hear his new material. It's
just that we all want to ear MWH songs! Why should Ivan be offended to
know that a lot of people really "dig" his earlier songs? This is in no
way a rejection of his later material. In fact, most of the peoples on
the list love The Spell. And most of us (in North America at least) will
have the opportunity to see it perform live (Ivan is planning on touring
with The Spell). This special concert is... well, special. It's a
celebration of the music who made us fans in the beggining.

> I think the new album's terrific.

So do I, and a lot of peoples on the list...

Thanks Rod

By for now, Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Just me
Date: 30 Sep 1997 15:40:56 UT






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Survey...
Date: 30 Sep 1997 15:48:29 UT


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Something that the "Artists" do is put out an album:  it seems to me
like "I made this album, I put on these songs, you go buy it and pay
me, never mind what you want, if you don't like it, try and return
it"  The point is that yes, we are paying him to play what we want,
he is not selling a show to the general public...

Cordially,

Rush
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$  "A is A:  The basic premise of Reason."  $$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

- -----Original Message-----
Sent:    Tuesday, September 30, 1997 4:14 AM


Hey men...
(and women)

Didn't we just have a survey...

Who can vote in this one, and what is the purpose, please.

Are you seriously going to tell Ivan what songs to play in concert?
As a
musician (especially if I had a new album that I had been working on
for
two years and no one wanted to hear it) I would be quite offended if
someone did that to me.  Maybe he has a better sense of humour,
however.
To me it seems like, "show up here, play these songs and we'll pay
you,
and never mind what you want..."

I think the new album's terrific.

I can't go to the show since I live in California (unless you do one
in
Vancouver too), so please decide who can vote.  Is it a 'concert
requests"
only, (was the last one?) or a mailing list top twenty  (or
whatever).

Best wishes,
Rod
Los Angeles



>By popular demand, I offer my services as a statistics-type person
to
>help with the play-list vote.
>
>Please email me with your top twenty songs, in order from
>    1 [I will absolutely die if they don't play this song]   to
>   20 [I hope they play this, but I won't cry if they don't].




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# Email [e-mail] with "info hats" in the message.
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sender.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNDEfTbXFs2oETQJGEQIurwCg+JPIjULwnQ4ciVydGku2H6UlyCAAnjaf
NC9Pmnb6CcsFnAWo7WLW72MA
=Gt3W
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "AJ Langfield" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Survey silliness
Date: 30 Sep 1997 09:02:35 -0700


I've been lurking for quite some time - spoken to a number of you privately,
but haven't had a need to speak to the list in whole yet.

Personally, I'm pretty happy with the survey results, except for the lack of
music from "Sideways."  (In order my favorite albums are ROY, PGtW, FOE3 and
Sideways.)  I'll be honest that I have neither seen "Freeways," nor have I
wanted to break the seal on my FOE Vinyl.  As soon as someone reprints the
boots, I'll be there.

I do understand the call for a weighted ballot, but I am a little concerned
about contractually binding, or even strongly suggesting to Ivan that he
_should_ play these songs - particularly to the extent that we specify which
version of the song he play (well, except for 21 Century Safety Dance -
there is a valid concern there ;-).  It just doesn't seen right to do that
to an artist that we all obviously have a lot of respect for.  I can see us
giving him a list of "our favorite songs" and allowing him to form his
playlist _as he chooses_.   Maybe he plays them, maybe he doesn't.  Am I the
only one that feels this way?


Once again, I understand the value of a weighted ballot, but it is so very
wrong to criticize (and there were some strong statements) Kris and Wendy
and how they put together and reported the results of their survey.  An
equal weight ballot _is_ very valid in many circumstances to get general
consensus - generally what is "liked".  It's very easy to criticize after
the fact - particularly if your songs did not get on the list.  If such a
scientific (okay, I'm adding drama here) poll was desired, why not start
that discussion before the results were announced?

My 2 cents...

Claude - I do _love_ the web site!

Allan

Can somebody help me like the 21 Century album?   I have never been able to
get into it, and there are obviously fans of it here!

Does anyone else find Sideways similar to a Sisters of Mercy album?  My
friends think that's insane, but...




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) The List
Date: 30 Sep 1997 16:03:06 UT


Those of you who might have gotten blank E-mail from me, please ignore it.  I
have been experimenting with PGP and it is not working.  Anyway, if I offended
anyone who COULD read them it was not my intent.  In essence, I am suggesting
that this whole survey stuff is a waste of time.  The best way to do this
would be that when you send in yer payment for your tickets you vote for the
songs you would like.  For each ticket you buy, you can vote for your choices
in the order that you would like to hear them.  Two tickets, two lists; four
tickets, four lists.  This saves tons of time for Laura and it weeds out
"ringers" who will not be attending.  I think that the best way to put it now
is that the concert is not for the mailing list, but for the ATTENDEES.
Commentary?

Cordially,

Rush
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$  "A is A:  The basic premise of Reason."  $$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re:  Hey Men
Date: 30 Sep 1997 10:32:11 -0600


In my opinion, Hey Men is about men being overly macho.  To the point of
hurting other people around them (knocking your children down, mowing
your women down).  In a sense this song is also about the victims
(women, children and other men).  Both a fish and the worm are victims
except that the worm is a pawn and the fish is the target.

Senz

> Of course, I have always been a bit mystified by
> the "epilouge" to "Hey, Men" (what the heck is "Some of us were
> fishes,
> some of us were worms" supposed to mean, anyway ...... I figured that
> the last line kinda' played into the whole nonsensical mellieu. . . .
> I
> realize that this is a bad offical stand to have on a critical point,
> but I do believe that, sometimes, things aren't supposed to make
> sence!
>
> Yours Sincerely,
> Wasting Away





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Some early 80s help
Date: 30 Sep 1997 10:18:04 -0700 (PDT)


I'm extending a plea of "Help!" to any list members who are in Japan
or have Japanese music connections...

I'm looking to get a copy of the new Howard Jones CD, "Angels & Lovers".
It's a Japanese-only release at this point, and has some bonus tracks
that won't be available on other releases.

If anyone can help me, please e-mail me privately. Thanks in advance!

ObMWH: I've been sort of following this survey brouhaha... I didn't vote,
=09'cause I was kind of expecting Ivan to do a mostly greatest hits
=09set, with a couple of lesser-knowns and some "The Spell" tracks.
=09I'll be happy just to see Ivan... and maybe he could coax Stefan
=09back on stage...
=09
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Don2
[e-mail]

=09"It is not I who am crazy... it is I who am MAD!" - Ren H=F6ek




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) About 2 videos
Date: 30 Sep 1997 14:46:36 -0003


    Claudio Jr. (South America - BRASIL)

     I subscribe to everybody of the list to say that I want to buy MWH VHS
tapes, that were produced by some fans of this band, especially the
compilation of all videos (interviews and a live concert - 2 hour video
released in 1996). How much cost it? How do I order it?

    Also,I want the compilation of Montreal in July. Tomas Norman still make copies
of this compilation? (My videocassete is NTSC VHS).

    I live in a country (or a continent portion) that don't have any stuff about
this band. I, for example, ordered "The Spell" about two months ago and
nothing came here until now. I never see any MWH concert, only pictures
and photos in CD's and INTERNET.

    - I would like to buy the 3-CD bootleg (live concerts and some
hard-to-find remixes). Anyone have a boot in CD?

                        Waiting your e-mails..........
    Anyone can make (and send) me a copy?
     Please, help me to known better this band.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Survey...
Date: 30 Sep 1997 19:07:28 UT




Something that the "Artists" do is put out an album:  it seems to me
like "I made this album, I put on these songs, you go buy it and pay
me, never mind what you want, if you don't like it, try and return
it"  The point is that yes, we are paying him to play what we want,
he is not selling a show to the general public...

Cordially,

Rush
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$  "A is A:  The basic premise of Reason."  $$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

- -----Original Message-----
Sent:    Tuesday, September 30, 1997 4:14 AM

Are you seriously going to tell Ivan what songs to play in concert?
As a
musician (especially if I had a new album that I had been working on
for
two years and no one wanted to hear it) I would be quite offended if
someone did that to me.  Maybe he has a better sense of humour,
however.
To me it seems like, "show up here, play these songs and we'll pay
you,
and never mind what you want..."




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Survey silliness
Date: 30 Sep 1997 19:00:30 UT


I have always thought of the Sisters when I hear Ivan, especially on PGTW.
You are not crazy.  At least, I do not think so....

Cordially,

Rush
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$  "A is A:  The basic premise of Reason."  $$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

-----Original Message-----
Sent:    Tuesday, September 30, 1997 11:03 AM


Does anyone else find Sideways similar to a Sisters of Mercy album?  My
friends think that's insane, but...



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Josefsson Per-Johan <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Sisters of Mercy
Date: 30 Sep 1997 21:50:51 +0200


Yes the similarity has been mentioned some time before on the list,
I believe Andrew Eldrich's voice is sometimes pretty close to Ivan's.

/PJ.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) HEY MEN
Date: 30 Sep 1997 16:32:48 -0400 (EDT)




I have always viewed Hey Men as a feminist song written by men for men, in
order to allow men to see themselves as sensitive human beings and not as
macho men who constantly need to be proving themselves.  But I thought the
lyrics "quit pushing YOUR WOMEN 'round" defeated the purpose.  It almost
designates girlfriends/wives as a man's property.  I love the song, but
that part always bothers me a little when I hear it.


--
 ###



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude Berthiaume <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH check
Date: 30 Sep 1997 19:17:30 -0400


As I was writing Francis' check for the stickers (I'm sure he will be =
glad to hear that!!!) I wondered if anyone had the contacts to produce =
MWH checks???


Simon


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) HEY MEN
Date: 30 Sep 1997 17:30:33 -0600


> I have always viewed Hey Men as a feminist song written by men for
> men, in
> order to allow men to see themselves as sensitive human beings and not
> as
> macho men who constantly need to be proving themselves.  But I thought
> the
> lyrics "quit pushing YOUR WOMEN 'round" defeated the purpose.  It
> almost
> designates girlfriends/wives as a man's property.  I love the song,
> but
> that part always bothers me a little when I hear it.

I think that he is using "your women" to show the relationship between
the pusher and the pushed.  We all use the possessive to show
relationship.  If a girl says "My husband" she's not saying she owns
him, but that he's the husband that is related to her.  If I say "my
friend",  I'm not trying to tell people I own the friend.
When Ivan says "your women" it just means those women that are related
to the men he is singing to.

Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Speed is our friend...
Date: 30 Sep 1997 23:21:57 UT


Has anyone else noticed that the vast majority of "The List" is fast and
upbeat tunes, not sleepy, "music to commit suicide by" type stuff?  I find
that interesting given that plenty of my personal faves are sleepers...
Cordially,

Rush
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$  "A is A:  The basic premise of Reason."  $$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Survey...
Date: 30 Sep 1997 21:03:24 -0400 (EDT)


Hi Rod!

I will not tell to Ivan we want the 15 songs, but most of them.  It means
that we are ready for surprise, but most of the songs has to be our choice.

Ciao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Your song!
Date: 30 Sep 1997 21:04:12 -0400 (EDT)


You are right Angie.

If we are ready to pay 30$ per tickets, we have to hear the songs WE WANT.

I have the list of the 15 most (???) wanted songs and I will show to Ivan's
manager probably this week and to Ivan himself (I can't wait to see his
reaction).

So, dont worry about this show, before I do anything, everyone will have a
copy of the contract and the different clauses.

Ciao

Francis "the organizer" Joannette


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: * <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: (hats) Survey...]
Date: 30 Sep 1997 23:56:13 +0000


Rush wrote:

> Something that the "Artists" do is put out an album:  it seems to me
> like "I made this album, I put on these songs, you go buy it and pay
> me, never mind what you want, if you don't like it, try and return
> it"  The point is that yes, we are paying him to play what we want,
> he is not selling a show to the general public...


Rush- I think you've missed the point.  - Id have to agree with Rod.

Since when are we "paying Ivan to play what we want" ???
I was under the impression that we were putting together an intimate,
private show -  at best, suggesting to Ivan the songs we'd _like_ to
hear.


"I put on these songs, you go buy it and pay me.....never mind what you
want"
What  a horrible way of looking at things from the "artist" perspective-

We are not "paying him to play what we want"
(and he is not forcing you to buy a ticket)
 the tickets  I'm purchasing are to see Ivan play in a small intimate
venue with a bunch of his biggest fans (period)

Money does not buy  MOST artistic integrity

Rod wrote:
>
> Are you seriously going to tell Ivan what songs to play in concert?
> As a
> musician (especially if I had a new album that I had been working on
> for
> two years and no one wanted to hear it) I would be quite offended if
> someone did that to me.  Maybe he has a better sense of humour,
> however.
> To me it seems like, "show up here, play these songs and we'll pay
> you,
> and never mind what you want..."
>
> Rod
> Los Angeles



Wolfgang


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Concert?
Date: 30 Sep 1997 23:56:00 -0400 (EDT)


    Is it true that Ivan is having a concert in Canada this month of
October???

Collin


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers payment , plus a surprise
Date: 30 Sep 1997 21:05:08 -0400 (EDT)


Hello to the sticker's gang!

Since 2 weeks, I just received 11 payments on 32.  I shipped most of the 11
(excluding Laura Kramer, I just received your payment today!)..

I need to put a deadline, because I received some request from new members to
get those stickers.

So, for the people who did not send you payment, please, send your payment
before the 10th of october, otherwise, I'll have to give to someone else.


Also, you will find a nice souvenir in the enveloppe, signed by Ivan himself.





Thank you for reading.

Ciao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) don't leave!!!
Date: 30 Sep 1997 12:43:29 +0000


> Lets face it - we can't tell Ivan what songs he has to perform,

We can't?  We're the ones holding the checkbook.  If Ivan doesn't
perform the songs specified in the contract, then it could become a
legal issue.


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