ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/hats/archive/hats.9708

Internet Message Format | 1997-08-31 | 349KB

From: "Russ Kemsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) eerie!!!(subtext to Laura)
Date: 01 Aug 1997 02:14:12 UT


Whoa! I had this happen earlier today when Gregor said, "Can't get
"Superbadgirls" out of my head.", SBG was playing on my stereo. Weird!!!

BTW...both the shirt and The Spell arrived today. THANK YOU, LAURA!!!! I have
been proudly donning the shirt all day here at work and have had several
comments from "What the hell is that?" to "Cool, Men Without Hats!". You
should have the check already...if not it will be there soon. Sent it Monday.

I have only spun The Spell twice so far, but I am definately more impressed
than I thought I would be. I'll post more when I have a chance to digest and
analyze.

P.S. A HEARTY WELCOME BACK, MYKE!!!!



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From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hey!
Date: 01 Aug 1997 01:01:40 -0400 (EDT)


CC:    MYKEC
Subj:    RE: Hey!

I'm back!

> Hey, how many stickers.... couple of hundred, you mean 200???
Talk about a real man!!!!! hahaaha

???  Yeah.  If 200 means a MAXIMUM MAXIMUM MAXIMUM of $20, I can handle that.

Myke


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From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Qs
Date: 01 Aug 1997 01:01:58 -0400 (EDT)


CC:    MYKEC
Subj:    RE: (hats) Qs

> Something is cooking right now

Smells good.  What is that?

Myke


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From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Your video is finished...
Date: 01 Aug 1997 01:03:23 -0400 (EDT)


CC:    MYKEC
Subj:    RE: Your video is finished...

Yes there was mention of the demos possibly being released in the future
for those of us on the list - or possibly beyond.

I also did check out the site you referenced and browsed the lyrics a
bit today when I was at lunch.

I would have to say that some of what I read is, according to my
limited listening experience, incorrect but still nice to have available.

Like "Abba makes Roxy sound like T. Rex" or something to that effect, int
the live lyrics section.  I've never heard Ivan say anything but
"I like Abba.  I like Roxy.  I like T. Rex."

Also, the ending of that lyric says
"? The national set"
and we all know that it's "The nationale 7".

I like the title "Treblinka".

Myke


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From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) FAQ
Date: 01 Aug 1997 01:33:43 +0000


Salut les t=EAtes nues...

Slowly but surely. There's no way I'm gonna pull that one alone! My
request for MWH links was not met with overwelming enthousiasm (but
thanks to all those who did reply!). For the curious, you can go take a
look at what's coming at you:
http://ww.total.net/~gigarpus/home_mwh.html It's crude but I'm working
on it...

Good night everybody!

Claude


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From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) he will come
Date: 01 Aug 1997 13:50:59 +0000


Hi everyone!

Claude said...
> I'm starting to think
> that Ivan would not have come and talk with me if it were not for the
> T-shirts?????)

Ok, now, everyone who has met me, everyone who has seen Claude and
me on the video...  What do you think is more eyecatching?  Claude
standing quietly and discreetly or me with the HATS logo plastered
across my chest?

;-) Laura


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From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) MWH Phone Cards
Date: 01 Aug 1997 14:08:02 -0400



>Anyways, lets see what everyone else thinks.  Just think, A MWH item that one
>could make phone calls with.  Heh heh!

Hm....I wonder why I have the telephone operator's line sin the 12" of "I
Got The Message" in my mind now?


:)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

SpAsTiCkS! Online comic Book
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) another hat tale
Date: 01 Aug 1997 14:15:08 -0500 (CDT)


reading the email about the lyrics to MWH songs made me think of something
that was a laugh, back when the Gulf war thing was happening my best friend
was over there in the desert. She wanted me to send some music, so I sent
her a copy of MWh's ROY on tape because it had sentimental value, anyway she
wrote back a letter wondering what the lyrics to Anartica were. I didn't
know either because my record didn't come w/ a lyric sheet, so we did our
own "interpetation" and came up w/ completely different lyrics in spots,
like the "on reflector...and the radio town...or something like that, any
way we were both sure of our own lyrics so we made a bet. This matter wasn't
solved until I got the Collections cd and "I won!". Ha ha! It's a fun song
to do that with! This happened w/ a CCR song too! ha ha!
PS. hey Myke, glad your back...it wasn't my idea to dance!



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From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) cover songs for Hats
Date: 01 Aug 1997 14:21:18 -0500 (CDT)


ok, so they have done "editions" by Roxy and "I am a Walrus" by Beatles,
anything else? I was thinking a credence clearwater rival song updated would
sound nice. how about "walking on the water", FYC had a song that was I
swear, a ripoff of this song in techno form. MWH's could do it much better.
and I still think a Johnny Cash song would be "heavy".  (a ring of
fire!-techno style)-will



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From: "Lazlo Nibble" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) cover songs for Hats
Date: 01 Aug 1997 13:36:23 -0600 (MDT)


> ok, so they have done "editions" by Roxy and "I am a Walrus" by Beatles,
> anything else?

"S.O.S." is an Abba song.

--
::: Lazlo ([e-mail]; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists


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From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) cover songs for Hats
Date: 01 Aug 1997 15:48:24 +0000


Will asked...
> anything else?

don't forget SOS by ABBA!!

;-) Laura


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) MWH Phone Cards
Date: 02 Aug 1997 00:30:38 -0400 (EDT)


If you get them made, I'll take a few.

Dave K


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From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Oops.  I only sent this to Lazlo Thursday.  Sorry!
Date: 02 Aug 1997 09:33:07 -0400 (EDT)


CC:    MYKEC
Subj:    RE: (hats) MykeC and the Hats list

I most graciously accept your apology, Lazlo.

I too will now apologize for violating your rule and "taking matters
into my own hands."

What kind of man would I be if I didn't after receiving a message like
yours?

Thank you for renewing my subscription.

I hope your rates haven't changed.

(Oops, I forgot to issue the bad joke warning in advance!  Sorry!)

It's good to be back.

Howdy Will!

Howdy everybody!

Myke



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From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Covers
Date: 02 Aug 1997 09:38:46 -0400 (EDT)


I've seen threads like this in other lists and I must admit it makes
for some rather boring reading at times, but...

I can see Ivan singing "Ring Of Fire"!  It's perfect for his voice!

And how 'bout "A Boy Named Sue" as a bonus?  ;-)

(That was my favourite Johnny Cash song when I was in the 1st grade!)

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) covers
Date: 02 Aug 1997 09:40:48 -0400 (EDT)


Abba, "S.O.S."
Roxy, "Editions Of You"
T-Rex, ???

(Of course the obvious choice would be "Bang A Gong" but...)


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From: "Bradley N. Hull" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Video and Shirt Received!
Date: 02 Aug 1997 11:40:54 -0400


Tom:  Video received.
WOW!  How I wish I could have been there!  Meeting Ivan in person, gettin=
g
autographs, discussing all those things we've always wanted to ask
him...too cool!
Did I misinterpret or had Ivan never seen the 2-4-1?  It also sounded lik=
e
he commented that with his own label he will be able to avoid having thin=
gs
happen without his consent (like the 2-4-1).  Did I hear wrong on the tap=
e?

Laura: Shirt received.
Fantastic!  I now feel like I truly am in "The Club".  I wore my shirt to=

the farmer's market downtown today.  The only comment I got was "does tha=
t
mean no hard hats allowed?"  Oh well, the guy was in his 50's!

Glad that the whole Myke/Will/Lazlo issue got sorted out.  Whew!  I was
afraid it was going to get as nasty as some of the threads on the Golden
Retriever list I'm on!

I am keeping all possible appendages and phalanges crossed in anticipatio=
n
of another Ivan show in Toronto.  It would be great to link up with more =
of
you at a show there.

TTFN
Brad


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From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) covers
Date: 02 Aug 1997 11:58:10 -0700


...but they already covered it with "Hey Men"

;-)


Rod
Los Angeles




>Abba, "S.O.S."
>Roxy, "Editions Of You"
>T-Rex, ???
>
>(Of course the obvious choice would be "Bang A Gong" but...)
>
>




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: Re: (hats) cover songs, (I'm busted by yooze guys!)
Date: 03 Aug 1997 00:32:18 -0500 (CDT)


How could have been so dumb, well it is a hot humid summer and
my ac is not working well, so call it heat exhaustion, yeah thats the
ticket!-Will ha ha!
>Will asked...
>> anything else?
>
>don't forget SOS by ABBA!!
>
>;-) Laura
>



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickes strikes back!!!!
Date: 03 Aug 1997 14:42:25 -0400 (EDT)


Hey hatters.

I've got 19 peoples who wants 3000 stickers.  I need the minimum order of
5000 to proceed.

 I got the price last week but I was not happy, it was 10$ per 100 so I ask
my director of operation to work a REAL friendly price.

I should get back to you with the exact price this week.

But in the meantime, We miss 2000 stickers!?!?!?!?

Is there someone else who wants it?????????
Leave me an E-mail

Francis


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From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) he will come
Date: 02 Aug 1997 23:27:23 -0400


>Ok, now, everyone who has met me, everyone who has seen Claude and
>me on the video...  What do you think is more eyecatching?  Claude
>standing quietly and discreetly or me with the HATS logo plastered
>across my chest?

OK.   Claude is right and Laura is right.    :-)
Claude is eyecatching because he has met Ivan before.
Laura's shirts are eyecatchig too.   Both of the heros of Montreal deserve
equal credit.

(meanwhile Will and Myke are laughing their heads off - another list feud
begins)

Tom
[e-mail]


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From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) just passing through
Date: 03 Aug 1997 14:23:59 -0500 (CDT)


A big HOWDY to you all, that means you too MR.M*** (ha ha!)
.........................Will.............................
ps. the sticker thing is a hard one, wasn't somebody offering
"free" ones just rescently. What would I do w/ 100 of 'em?
maybe a exclusive "hats" party!!!! yeah!!!wait a minute, I'm broke!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) awesome t-shirts
Date: 03 Aug 1997 18:41:38 -0400 (EDT)


Thanks to Laura for the awesome t-shirts!!! Please put me down for another XL
- O if you are planning on another batch. Thanks

Ray


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From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) MWH Phone Cards
Date: 04 Aug 1997 08:35:54 +0000


I have someone on the list already asking about ABBA phone cards. I
will be getting prices soon and seeing how many I will need to do.

> For some reason, I really think this would be cool.   I don't know if there
> would be enough interest on the list, but if the card face had a couple of
> band logos on it, you might be able to market it to enough fans of 80s music
> to justify getting them made.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Mattingly <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) More Ivan Pictures Online
Date: 04 Aug 1997 10:40:14 -0400


Thanks to Dave K and Tom N, there are a few more Ivan pictures at
http://www.geocities.com/soho/5953/ivan2.html

Dave Mattingly




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hey Crew
Date: 04 Aug 1997 08:48:41 +0000


Hello fellow hatters

I am the guy that is making the phonecards and the mp3 archive
located at www.holdman.com/mwh

Anyway I am real excited to get those rare and out of print mp3s on
the MWH mp3 archive. I know awhile back you guys made that 3 CD
bootleg set (I wish I was around then I would have ordered one to :)
I was thinking if someone could mail me their set and I could rip the
songs off of it and then send the cds back (When I get the cds it
will not take longer than 2 days to send them back)

Someone on the list is already sending me a tape with some stuff on
it that I will be ripping to mp3 soon.

Lets get this mp3 MWH archive going :) You can make the mp3s yourself
or if you want you can mail the stuff you want on the archive to me
and I will send your material back two days after I get it.

If you need more info or where to send your material email me please

-Thanks!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) re: More Ivan Pictures Online
Date: 04 Aug 1997 11:09:00 +0000


Hi everyone!

Dave said...
> http://www.geocities.com/soho/5953/ivan2.html


it's http://www.geocities.com/soho/5953/dmivan2.html

And as an aside, when Ivan is saying "My fans made these!" he's
showing the boot to his parents.  Wheeeeee!

;-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas Bieler <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) I-van or E-van?
Date: 04 Aug 1997 18:10:21 +0200 (MET DST)


Hi all!

Just a short question to Laura and the gang:
If Ivan introduced himself to you, then how did he pronounce his name?
I recall a discussion from some time ago on that topic. Also, Claude, why do
you always write 'Yvan'?

Thomas


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) I-van or E-van?
Date: 04 Aug 1997 12:57:54 +0000


Hi Thomas and everyone!

Welcome back from your holiday, Thomas!  We've all missed you!!

> If Ivan introduced himself to you, then how did he pronounce his name?

He said, "Hi, I'm Ivan" as in Eye-Van.  Long I like in mine...

And then I nearly fainted... ;-)

Oh, and to everyone who asked about the video...  no I never tuck my
shirt in, and yes I was wearing two shirts at the time...

L8R!!!
;-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) re: More Ivan Pictures Online
Date: 04 Aug 1997 13:07:45 +0000


Hi All!

Jeff H asked me, and I thought others might be interested...

> I wish one of you would have turned around in the video...after IVAN
> signed your shirts...so we all could see!! Hmmmmmmm....

I did, but Tom was too far away.  Ivan signs by printing his name
with a star over the I.  He wrote on my left shoulder blade.  Colin
writes in cursive, and puts the Hats logo after his name.  He signed
just below my right shoulder blade, under the print on the shirt
(which doesn't match the print on the wall at the moment <vbg>).
I'm going to become a web presence soon, I think, so I will have Jim
take a picture of me in the shirt and scan that in.  Be patient!!

> Also, did he do his 'Hats' songs in the soundcheck, or just near the end
> of the real show?

In the soundcheck, too.  That's how we knew that there would be an
encore.  I'd also like to point out that the second half of the
concert, the one that was dedicated to us, was the LONGER half!!
Yaaaaay!!  Doesn't take much to amuse me, does it.  ;-)  Also, that's
where all the Hats songs were.  I felt soooo loved.  <vbg>

Gosh, I can't wait for another concert!!!  Must ... see ... Hats ...
(say it like Homer Simpson looking at a jelly donut with sprinkles
in the frosting).  My sister-in-law is getting married in northern
Ohio this weekend, so if Ivan et al are playing anyplace nearby, I'll
be like Ok, you do, you do, great, cut the cake, toss the bouquet,
I've got a plane to catch.  Hey, it's not *MY* wedding!  I'll even
swim across Lake Erie if necessary.

Hey, also, Congrats to Trena on her promotion!!!  Yaaaaay!

CY'allL8R!!!!

:-) Laura

PS to Vince, no I haven't finished off the roll of film yet.  Need to
actually be home...  ;-)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) re: More Ivan Pictures Online
Date: 04 Aug 1997 18:05:56 -0400


>And as an aside, when Ivan is saying "My fans made these!" he's
>showing the boot to his parents.  Wheeeeee!
>
>;-) Laura
Laura,
Isn't the guy with the eyepatch, Eugene, Ivan's Dad?   Shouldn't we mention
this?
Tom
[e-mail]







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) whats this, a package!!!!
Date: 04 Aug 1997 17:31:42 -0500 (CDT)


OH MY GAWD!!!!! IT'S HERE, IT'S HERE!!!(faint!....crash!@#@) YES YES, IT'S TRUE
AUNTIE EM AUNTIE EM!!!!! MY 2 for 1 CAME TODAY and I'm HAPPY AS A LITTLE GIRLIE!
(to quote Micheal Myers) THANK YOU LAURA!!!!!!!!!!!!!kiss kiss kissxxxxxx!
I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!! THE LONG AGONIZING WAIT IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FINALLY I CAN DIE IN PEACE!!! (but I 'd rather dance like an imbecile!!) OH....
what happened to Tony?  and I know there names......IT"S HERE!!!!!
Thank You Empress< I owe you much happiness!!!!!!!!!!!LOVE, PEACE, -WILL
ps. I'm clicking my heels and I'm gonna safety dance somewhere over the rainbow!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Kramer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) whats this, a package!!!!
Date: 04 Aug 1997 17:00:23 -0700


will finn wrote:
> (lots of CAPS and exclamation points)

No, really, Will.  It's OK to share your feelings.  Tell us how you
*really* felt.    (tongue firmly planted in cheek, btw - I know irony
doens't always travel well on the internet . . .)

Glad you're enjoying it.  :-)

Laura (not-Jim)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers, last chance......
Date: 04 Aug 1997 22:46:58 -0400 (EDT)


Hey, I guess there is no one who wants more MWH stickers.

This week, I'm off  (YEAH!).  BUT I should have the price for the stickers
FINALLY.

Ok, what we will do is this.

We have over 2500 stickers gone.  If everyone agree, we could double the
amount of stickers for everyone.
Just for myself, I'm taking 500 stickers.  Imagine....


What do you think about that!!!%%%

Ciao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers list...........
Date: 04 Aug 1997 22:48:43 -0400 (EDT)


Again..........me??????? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ok here is the list of people who want the FAMOUS, INCREDIBLE, UNBELIEVABLE
STICkERSSSSS!!!!!!!!
Francis             500
tom norman        100
Rod            100        [e-mail]
Jeff                  100        [e-mail] (Harding Jeff)
Dave Krupla        300        ElKrupla
wolfgang        100        [e-mail]
Simon            100        [e-mail]
Jeff                  100        [e-mail]
vince            300        [e-mail]
frank            100        [e-mail]
Eric soderblom    100        [e-mail] (Eric W. Soderblom)
Gregor            100        [e-mail] (Gregor Watson)
Jeff                  100        [e-mail] (Harding Jeff)
Laura            200        [e-mail]
Trena            100        [e-mail] (Trena Brantley)
Richard Holdman100        [e-mail] (Richard Holdman)
Jon Stanley        100        [e-mail] (Jon Stanley)
Senz            100        [e-mail] (Steven Enz)
Woody Zenfell    100        [e-mail] (Woody Zenfell)
Myke            200        [e-mail] (LORD HASENPFEFFER)

Total:              3000


Ciao


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) The Spell
Date: 04 Aug 1997 23:51:20 -0600


(Better late than never as they say!!)
Here's my thoughts on Ivan's new(ish) offering....

1.  The Spell....seems to be about the freedom to be yourself or express
yourself without fear.  I'm not sure which two worlds ivan is referring
to. (pop culture and classical maybe?)  Very powerful song though!
2.  Superbadgirls...bouncy little number about feminists, perhaps? ..or
perhaps some girls who like to stir things up just to see how people
react.  I.e. they crave attention!  Maybe Ivan is poking fun at some
girls who've toyed with his emotions?
3.  Chain Reaction....this one meanders a bit.  I still haven't formed
much of an opinion on this one.  I prefer to skip it.
4.  Open Your Eyes...I'm addicted to this one. As many have mentioned,
this sounds like PSB (one of my other favourite groups).  I can't
imagine how such a good song fails to go number one.  My guess is that
todays young listeners are brainwashed into thinking rap music is real
music and anything else is somehow inferior.
5.  1972 (Slippin' Away)...Is that a soccer whistle I hear?!!  I like
this one quite a bit, the variety of sounds is like a bit of an
adventure.
6.  You...Insanity!!  Somebody has gone a little over the edge here!
Sounds like a relationship in which one person has become frighteningly
obsessed.  This song captures the mood of this topic very well. (i.e..
it gives me the creeps!!)
7.   Forever...Installation of unrealistic expectations by society on
it's young individuals (?!!).    I like this song a lot.  It sounds like
it could almost come from PGTW.
8.   WWW...Ivan tries music from a different culture. Perhaps to help
bridge a gap?  Nice thought if this is the case, but I prefer music when
I listen to music, not rap.
9.  Somethin...For a song that has a positive happy message, this one
sure seems forced or flat. No life in this one.
10.  Fly...This one would fit well on 21st Century.  There is an
interesting concern about "time" throughout this album.
11.  Outro...A playful artist created this.  It's  great to see Ivan
getting creative!! Go, Ivan go!


Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) The Spell
Date: 05 Aug 1997 07:43:30 +0000


Senz wrote:
>
> 8.   WWW...Ivan tries music from a different culture. Perhaps to help
> bridge a gap?  Nice thought if this is the case, but I prefer music when
> I listen to music, not rap.

Open your eyes, rap is music (in all the senses of the word)!

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) sorry again!
Date: 05 Aug 1997 08:12:48 +0000


Hi all hatters!

Sorry to do this to the whole list, but I don't have my mini-address
book here...

Jim Davis, Woody Zenfell, and Don Stroud - can you please confirm
your mailing addresses for me??   OK to WB to my work address.

Keep on dancing, everyone!!!

;-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Mattingly <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) 1980s Music Archive
Date: 05 Aug 1997 10:23:41 -0400


I found a pretty cool site at http://vinnie.simplenet.com/1980smusic/
that has links to lots of cool '80s stuff. One of its link sites (The
New Wave 80s) lets you post free classified ads for your want lists.

Dave Mattingly




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) The Spell
Date: 05 Aug 1997 09:21:34 -0600


> Open your eyes, rap is music (in all the senses of the word)!
>
> Claude

I do understand what you are saying, Claude. Even pure silence fits the
definition of music (as demonstrated by John Cage's  "4:33").  While I
accept the definition that "anything goes" for music,  I have trouble
using the term "music" for something that doesn't contain
instrumentation or singing.  Rap is based on neither, instead relying on
percussion and the spoken form of vocalization, which is my books is
"chant" not "music".
And don't get me wrong, Claude, I don't hate rap.  But rap can't replace
music,  and they aren't interchangable!!

Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Mattingly <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Rap
Date: 05 Aug 1997 11:37:04 -0400


Claude:
> > Open your eyes, rap is music (in all the senses of the word)!
>
> Senz:
> >I have trouble using the term "music" for something that
> >doesn't contain instrumentation or singing.  Rap is based on
> >neither, instead relying on percussion and the spoken form of
> >vocalization, which is my books is "chant" not "music".
>
> It depends on what type of rap you're talking about. In its
> beginnings, it was closer to a cappella singing with alternating
> singers. It began in the New York ghettos where kids couldn't afford
> radios, and had to sing without the music. It was sort of an inflected
> poem with minimal melody. Not quite spoken, not quite sung.
>
> btw, have any of you heard Stomp (music without singing and without
> normal instruments)?
>
> Dave Mattingly
>



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Non-Music
Date: 05 Aug 1997 10:57:57 -0600


> > btw, have any of you heard Stomp (music without singing and without
> > normal instruments)?
> >
> > Dave Mattingly

Is Stomp part of that "Indusrial" style that was popular in the late
eighties?  You know, using chain saws, hammers, etc.  That stuff was
very percussive, but as far as I can remember there was no melody.  John
Cage used non-traditional noise making devices too,  but using "music"
to refer to any of these situations devalues the term.  I can spit on
the sidewalk and call it a work of art, but others might consider it an
insult to what the term "art" represents.   Cage is interesting in how
he shows us the limits of what music can be.  I just hope it never gets
to the point where every second song on the radio is a Cage like
song....eeesch!! (cringe)

Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Mattingly <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: Non-Music
Date: 05 Aug 1997 15:02:15 -0400


>Is Stomp part of that "Indusrial" style that was popular in the late
> >eighties?  You know, using chain saws, hammers, etc.  That stuff was
> >very percussive, but as far as I can remember there was no melody.
>
> There was sort of a melody. More of a beat, really. It's nothing you
> could hum, but it was catchy.
>
> Stomp used lighters, trashcans, etc. to show us the music in everyday
> sounds.
>
> Not to be confused with Stump, who is guilty of the worst (or best)
> rhyme ever: "Charlton Heston put his vest on."
>
>
> Dave Mattingly
>



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: Re: (hats) The Spell
Date: 05 Aug 1997 14:23:11 -0500 (CDT)


I understand how Senz feels, rap is a hard pill to swallow, but I can handle
it in small doses. Down here in the south rap has taken over the scene is is
permeating EVERYTHING, even our commercials, and the "gang"thang is
completely OUT of CONTROL here, some innoscent child is shot hee from drives
by shootings every other week, the intense "male posturing" and often
embedded hatred found in this genre has caused our youth to run amuck with
criminal activity. Hip Hop, raps kinder, gentler companion seems far more
accessable and not as stigmatized. As for rap, it has been around for some
time, as far back as Debbie Harry on Rapture, of course she didn't invent
the style, simply used it. Bowie had one song where Mickey Rouke rapped in
the middle with somewhat success. Not having heard Ivan's new one, I can't
make a far judgement call, but be assured it is a friendier version of that
over used genre! Of course this could be because I'm "white-tee" and the
target of much of gangster raps wrath. No, I have to say I'm simply tired of
the overused cadance and rhythm patterns, just like I don't like olderrock &
roll that over used the 4/4 time sinature.-Will
give me R&B, Blues, Motown anyday over that "other" stuff.

>Senz wrote:

> 8.   WWW...Ivan tries music from a different culture. Perhaps to help
> bridge a gap?  Nice thought if this is the case, but I prefer music when
> I listen to music, not rap.

>Open your eyes, rap is music (in all the senses of the word)!
>
>Claude



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) another one bites the dust
Date: 05 Aug 1997 14:45:18 -0500 (CDT)


(forgive me hatters, I 'm having to address a non-hat issue here with a
follow hatter)
Well, I've done it again! I was carrying a conversation to "Saul" our UK
companion of the Hats list who is "of my nature", and now he's refusing my
e-mail! I told him he sounded like a fairly young person in his early
twenties, is this reason enough to get pissed off? Man, people sure are
sensitive creatures on this NET. Whats up with that? Hmmm... "Saul, if
you're out there and reading this, I sure didn't mean that to be an INSULT"!
And I did finally configure the *gif* you sent and you ARE a young,(
attractive person I might add), so please whats with the pity hard feelings?
There's nothing wrong with being YOUNG! Just because I like older lumber
jack types doesn't mean I don't like you for crying out loud. Please read
the email that followed the last contact, you'll get a clearer "picture" of
the matter. Suddenly Stupidified!- Will

p.s.- since you don't really like movies or music, my (?) about how you got
into the Hats seemed fair too BTW! If anyone out there in Hatsville knows
this cat, please fwd him this so he knows I sincerely am confounded by his
reaction.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: Non-Music
Date: 05 Aug 1997 14:59:52 -0500 (CDT)


perhaps it's all just the 'rhythm of youth'! eh? BTW, Stomp was more leaning
toward "performing Arts" than music and was meant to be SEEN as well as heard.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) never mind the bullocks!
Date: 05 Aug 1997 15:56:40 -0500 (CDT)


On the Saul isse in one of my many postings today of which I've been very
chatty. someone has informed me that his email address is changing so
there's the reason for the return email! SEE what happens when one assumes
anything, it sure made a "ass" out of "me". HEY EVERYBODY! you're all way
cool! call me lonely call me pale, but I ain't getting any e-mail! anybody
out there!????
(geeze louise I feel so pathetic!) GULP! anybody?



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harding Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) The Spell
Date: 05 Aug 1997 12:25:57 -0400


Well said, Senz. But, I have to add my 2 cents worth...
Rap IS NOT music....PERIOD.

The BIG DOG has spoken....




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) The Spell
Date: 05 Aug 1997 16:32:40 +0000


I agree

> Well said, Senz. But, I have to add my 2 cents worth...
> Rap IS NOT music....PERIOD.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) being ignored by straight white males
Date: 05 Aug 1997 18:48:38 -0500 (CDT)


you know it's a damn good thing Ivan doesn't read this hats list cause
there's a lotta ill suited gibberish on it!
A world without hate, indeed, not in my life time I'm afraid! I'm sick of
being ignored by most of you, even when I make intelligent discussions. yes
I too am guilty of STUPID remarks, and yes I am gay, big f**king deal, I
suppose you're just too good for folks like me. Why am I even bothering to
be on this unfriendly list anyway? because I , like you, lovethe Hats, and I
like you, like to have inter action with intelligent human beings, or so I
thought, but with the small exception of a handful of kind folks who
occasionally say hey, I get nada!- Will  ( BTW, there are several lyrical
passages in Hats that atthe very least imply bi-sexual tendencies and maybe
even more, so whats the beef
fella's, eh?)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: RE: (hats) The Spell
Date: 05 Aug 1997 18:50:48 -0500 (CDT)


How silly! of course rap IS MUSIC, it simply has a bad rap! ar ar!
an ever BIGGER DOG, bow wow wow, yippie yo yippie ya! Now P-Funk is another
thing altogether! Scientifically speaking even furniture dragged across a
linolium floor has a pitch, therefore could be made into a melody, albeit a
silly one, there were thoses who once thought syth music wasn't "real" music
too, of course they too were dim!

>Well said, Senz. But, I have to add my 2 cents worth...
>Rap IS NOT music....PERIOD.
>
>The BIG DOG has spoken....



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) being ignored by straight white males
Date: 05 Aug 1997 16:56:35 -0700 (PDT)


Will,

You seem really uptight. I don't think you should worry about the
list-subscribers "snubbing" you. I mean, please don't take this the wrong way,
but I haven't read anything in your posts to which I felt like replying. What
you've been trying to discuss really hasn't grabbed my attention. Again, I'm
not knocking you, I'm just trying to be open here.

And as for your being gay... if you've run into some sort of discrimination
thru the list, then I'm sorry that you had to experience it.

If it's any consolation, I never get communiques from anyone on the list
either. I think the majority of us are passive and insular subscribers. Just
'cause I'm not mailing three or four times a day doesn't mean I'm not a
fan of MWH.

Don2
[e-mail]

> you know it's a damn good thing Ivan doesn't read this hats list cause
> there's a lotta ill suited gibberish on it!
> A world without hate, indeed, not in my life time I'm afraid! I'm sick of
> being ignored by most of you, even when I make intelligent discussions. yes
> I too am guilty of STUPID remarks, and yes I am gay, big f**king deal, I
> suppose you're just too good for folks like me. Why am I even bothering to
> be on this unfriendly list anyway? because I , like you, lovethe Hats, and I
> like you, like to have inter action with intelligent human beings, or so I
> thought, but with the small exception of a handful of kind folks who
> occasionally say hey, I get nada!- Will  ( BTW, there are several lyrical
> passages in Hats that atthe very least imply bi-sexual tendencies and maybe
> even more, so whats the beef
> fella's, eh?)
>



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Soderblom <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Will & being ignored
Date: 05 Aug 1997 17:21:03 -0700


Will-
What the hell is your problem???  First of all I have received numerous
messages from you today which are all gibberish, secondly personally I
don't privately e-Mail anyone from this list unless I have to
(Laura/Shirts , Francis/Stickers , etc....).  You know, when the whole
Myke/Will thing was going on, I tried to understand both sides of the
issue, but I must say Myke may have been on to something.  get help.

-Eric


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) The Spell
Date: 05 Aug 1997 18:34:49 -0600


will finn wrote:

> How silly! of course rap IS MUSIC, it simply has a bad rap! ar ar!
> an ever BIGGER DOG, bow wow wow, yippie yo yippie ya! Now P-Funk is
> another
> thing altogether! Scientifically speaking even furniture dragged
> across a
> linolium floor has a pitch, therefore could be made into a melody,
> albeit a
> silly one, there were thoses who once thought syth music wasn't "real"
> music
> too, of course they too were dim!
>
> >Well said, Senz. But, I have to add my 2 cents worth...
> >Rap IS NOT music....PERIOD.
> >
> >The BIG DOG has spoken....
>

will,  this is my point,  if things like furniture being dragged across
the floor is music then were ALL mucisians and I can have no pride in
being one.  Someone (hopefully all of us) must draw the line somewhere!!
Rap makes for some pretty spooky poetry but where's the musicianship?

Synth music (especially MWH) still uses the fundamental music theories
developed over centuries to express the widest range of human emotions.
Rap simply defies this tradition.

senz




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) The Spell
Date: 05 Aug 1997 21:03:46 -0400 (EDT)


In a message dated 97-08-05 20:34:29 EDT, you write:

<< > >Rap IS NOT music....PERIOD.
 > >
 > >The BIG DOG has spoken.... >>

OK, I guess it is time for me to put my unsolicited opinion into play.  Rap
IS music.  Music is whatever you want it to be.  This debate can be used for
poetry, literature, etc.  If you don't like rap, that's cool.  But recognize
it as a part of culture,and the influence it has had a modern music.  I mean
if music is just about instruments, then is Nine Inch Nails music, or even a
dude named IVAN, and his all-electronic album.  Is it music or noise.  I am
not a real fan of rap (I do like NWA's Straight Outta Compton, and some
Consolidated stuff), but I recognize it as music.  It has a beat, it has
rythym and it flows...thats good enough for me.  I do not know what the
technical definition of music is and I don't care.  If it sounds good and I
dig, then so be it.  I think rap is more of music than say....Bush, the worst
band in the world.  Anyway, I am making no sense at all, or am I?  Peace Out.

[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) the fool on the hill
Date: 05 Aug 1997 21:40:49 -0500 (CDT)


Sorry folks, got to much time on my hands!!!! Need to get out more often!!!
I'm going late night swimming right now!!! YOu people are GREAT! You were
all very cool about my freakout! Ok, so, no more freaky outburst from this end!
Peace, Love- Maythe world live as one!-Will



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) Re: Sorry folks, I'm just overly sensitive!
Date: 05 Aug 1997 21:00:59 -0500 (CDT)


yeah, I'm a bit on the defensive, make that way on the defensive...but I
think you right Don, I shouldn't take it so frenging personal! O sole mio!
maybe I just need a bo'! sorry folks! I'm way too sensitive for this silly
thing, I probrably should unsubscribe and just write those I know dig where
I'm comng from.-Will
>
>Will,
>
>You seem really uptight. I don't think you should worry about the
>list-subscribers "snubbing" you. I mean, please don't take this the wrong way,
>but I haven't read anything in your posts to which I felt like replying. What
>you've been trying to discuss really hasn't grabbed my attention. Again, I'm
>not knocking you, I'm just trying to be open here.
>
>And as for your being gay... if you've run into some sort of discrimination
>thru the list, then I'm sorry that you had to experience it.
>
>If it's any consolation, I never get communiques from anyone on the list
>either. I think the majority of us are passive and insular subscribers. Just
>'cause I'm not mailing three or four times a day doesn't mean I'm not a
>fan of MWH.
gotcha loud and clear bro!!!!! boy what an ass I am sometimes!!!!-will


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hugo Bugg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Beat and Rhyme
Date: 05 Aug 1997 23:05:58 -0400


You have a beat
you have a verse and a chorus
you have vocals
you have a song

Could be the Beatles?
Could be rap too?

Who makes noise and who makes music.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Beat and Rhyme
Date: 05 Aug 1997 22:12:18 -0600


Hugo Bugg wrote:

> Who makes noise and who makes music.

Ok, I'll give in a little (my apologies to those who are thinking "What
the heck does all this have to do about MWH?").
I begin by considering an extreme situation.  Aliens land on Earth and
play us their best music.  It sounds a bit like your radio tuned to a
non-station (only slightly more monotonous).  Is it music?  Yes, for
them!  However, I wouldn't be happy if for some reason it started to
replace my own culture.  So, I would politely tell them that it is not
music where I come from. Then, of coarse, I would run and hide!

Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Components
Date: 06 Aug 1997 00:10:57 -0400 (EDT)


If there was ever a "noisier" musician on the planet than me, it'd have
to be Yoko Ono.  I tinker around with legit music on occasion but love to
spend a lot of time experimenting with electronic noise and digital soundz
in my own way more often because what I do is something I haven't known a
lot of other artists to do before me.  It's a fresh thing and it's all mine.

However, what I think the people on this list are trying to say is that
rap is generally less satisfying than most of the other music they listen
to because it is lacking the key elements that they do find in their other
favourite styles: melody and harmony.

It's a lot like what I experienced this past weekend when I went back thru
and indexed my old 1985-86 MTV videotapes.  What I saw for a whole day and
a half was a vibrant music television station that played videos - and lots
of them! - and kept its viewers informed of the latest music-related events.
Then I went to my mother-in-law's house for awhile where there is cable TeeVee
and today's so-called MTV.  What a let down!  First there was Beavis & Butthead
picking on Poison's "Unskinny Bop".  Then after I awoke from my nap, there was
some down-and-outer crying because her dad had left her when she was a baby
and who knows for whatever other reasons her life was so bad.  Then after that
there was "Ride Of Your Life" or something akin.  Not once did I see a single
music video in it's entirety without a lot of stupid interruptions and voice-
overs.  Today's MTV completely sucks to anybody who was old enough to
experience it when it was fresh, young and still full of spirit.  Yet to those
who've never known it to be any different than it is now, it's probably just
fine and the old fogeys should shut up about it.

To me, rap is music although a form far less developed and versatile than
is technopop and rock-n-roll in general.  I grew up listening to The Beatles
and KISS.  Both of these groups have beat, rhyme, harmony, melody, and an
experimental edge.  Rap, on the other hand, has beat and rhyme, but rarely
any harmony, melody, or experimental edge.  To anybody who's grown up listening
to something more than just beat and rhyme, it is almost impossible to step
down to such a reduced level and still be as entertained.  The pop music of
the 1980s was so intensely experimental and melodic in addition to being
rhytmic and rhyming!  We who grew up listening to that are spoiled by it!
And rightly so.  We refuse to accept less than what we know can be done.
Just like we refuse to consider today's MTV to be anywhere near equal to
what we know it has been in years past.


Plus the attitudes associated with rap are generally negative and angry.
One of the things I saw over the weekend on my tapes was a 1985 Howard Jones
concert in Manchester.  I looked at the crowd, and just like the crowd
at the Men Without Hats concert in Montreal that same summer, there wasn't
an angry bastard to be seen in it!  Everybody there was tastefully dressed
and groomed and simply having a wonderful synthpop time.  Put me in that
kind of crowd any day.  Give me the kind of music that generates that kind
of crowd any day.  I do not belong in a crowd gathered 'round to see the
latest violent atrocity on stage hell bent to see socialism win the day
while benefitting directly in glorious ignorance from the free-market
capitalist world in which they really live.

I can create rhythms all day long.  Fresh, original melodies that work
and entertain are much more difficult to create.  And based upon this
experience, when I see people completely ignoring melodies in their
music, I see that as a cheap and easy way to just make a buck and get
laid or high or both or all three, etc. ad nauseum.

It's like the people of China don't know they're poor so they're
generally satisfied with their lives if they're allowed to live them out.
However, put somebody there who's seen a more abundant way of life and
the transition should be almost impossible!

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) A bit disapointing
Date: 06 Aug 1997 09:23:01 -0400 (EDT)



Hello Hats Fans,

I have been on this list for only a couple of weeks. In those couple of
weeks, this list has NOT been the forum for discussing MWH/Ivan and the
various projects and news.

No, instead its been a way for people to show off little "sides" of
themselves that I have NO interst in knowing.

I joined this list because I was excited to find a community of MWH fans
(something hard to find, living in the States). I didn't join to deal with
everyone's social problems. I want to stay on this list because I still want
the forum. But if it keeps up like this with all these little spats which
have NOTHING to do with MWH, I'm going to leave - and I thought you should
know how and why you turned off a new member to your "community".

Thanks,
-Drew



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Russ Kemsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) A bit disapointing
Date: 06 Aug 1997 14:52:16 UT


Drew,

Trust me, it has only been like this for the last 2 weeks or so. I have been
on this list since early '96 and would like to encourage you to stick around.
True, it has it's ups and downs like any "commmunity", but I am proud to be a
part of this one. When the WIll Finn and RAP discussions die down, I'm
confident the discussion will take a turn for the better. Most people on this
list are really good folks and I can't even begin to describe what I have
gained by being a part of it.

-Russ


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan
Date: 06 Aug 1997 11:04:05 -0400


Hi, sorry to bother you people, but I'm looking for someone who knows a lot
about Ivan, I'm building sn Ivan page and I have no material but lyrics!!!


                                                                        Simon



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Live Aid
Date: 03 Aug 1997 04:57:24 -0400 (EDT)


I know this is really off-topic, but does anybody have or know somebody
else who has a set of VHS tapes of the complete Live Aid concert as
broadcast by MTV?  A friend of a friend has an 8 tape set with each tape
recorded in SP mode, but I've been after him for more than three years
now to get copies of them and he just won't even get started for me.
I know he can't be the only person in the world with such tapes.
I didn't have MTV in the summer of '85 and missed the show on the
regular networks.  I've got about 4 hours of tapes copied from other
people's patchy tapes of only things they liked at the time.
However, I'm looking for optimum quality recordings of the entire
event.  Please email me privately if you can help me get these.

Thanks,

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: Sorry folks, I'm just overly sensitive!
Date: 06 Aug 1997 08:05:51 -0400 (EDT)




<<  I probrably should unsubscribe and just write those I know dig where
 I'm comng from.-Will  >>

Sounds like a good idea!!!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) maintain the peace...filter out the noise
Date: 06 Aug 1997 08:30:47 +0000


As a public service I thought I would give everyone
instructions on mail filtering.  I'm a Pegasus Mail
user, so you may have differences.

1) Open Pegasus Mail
2) Choose TOOLS/Mail Filtering Rules/Create or Edit General Rules Set
3) It will bring up a box.  Choose NEW.
4) Think of a name for your filter -- perhaps "Cleanup the MHW List"
5) Hit the OK button
6) Your filter should now appear in the list.  Double-click on it.
7) Choose ADD RULE
8) Choose "This rule is activated when the trigger text occurs"
9) Choose "In these headers" and "From"
10) In the box labelled "Trigger text:" type in an email address
11)  Under the "Action to Take" section, choose DELETE

Filtering allows you to eliminate messages from sources that
personally offend, annoy, or bore you.  Instead of throwing barbs back
and forth, and cluttering up the list with garbage, try a little email
filtering.

You can also search for phrases or topics you don't care to see
if you feel that filtering out a person is over-reacting.

--Howard


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) mp3 archive - rap - blah blah blah
Date: 06 Aug 1997 09:42:32 +0000


Hello Everyone! And a good day to you!

Anyway enuff of this RAP - Flame mail - lbah lbhahbl hbahabhl - What
is music - rap was blahb lbhablbha blhabl hbl Beat in the blah blha
blh

It all Drives me Crazy :)

I am still looking for folks that want to do the mp3 archive. At this
point I am asking folks to either let me borrow their 3CD bootleg set
or any CDs so i can mp3 them and Send them back. I am willing to buy
the 3CD bootleg set if it is still available on the list. Anyone?

I Really want to build this mp3 MWH Archive so we can all share the
rare stuff.

The empty mp3 site can be found at http://www.holdman.com/mwh

Nothing There right now but the MWH Logo (kinda Cool though) :)

-Richard Holdman


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) The MWH demos
Date: 06 Aug 1997 08:47:00 -0700 (PDT)


I seem to remember reading somewhere that the master tapes of the MWH demo
tracks were bought in an auction for US$15000.

1) Am I remembering this incorrectly?

2) If this is true, then is there any possible way for Ivan to get them
   released?

Don2
[e-mail]




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Romance and MWH
Date: 06 Aug 1997 08:52:42 -0700 (PDT)


I was listening to "Pop Goes The World" last night, and when "Bright Side Of
The Sun" came on, I got that old empty feeling in the pit of my stomach.
See, this song reminds me of the Love Of My Life (TM) who proved to me that
true love exists, but also let me know that true love doesn't always last.

I placed "BSOTS" on a compilation tape I gave to her when I professed my
undying love to her. And then, sometime later, she left me. That's life, I
suppose. The lyrics of the song give me a little optimistic hope that one day,
she and I will reunite and walk into the sunset. Foolish romantic me...

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else out there has any romance-related
MWH anecdotes...

Don2
[e-mail]




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Romance and MWH
Date: 06 Aug 1997 10:39:12 -0600


Don2:

> Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else out there has any
> romance-related
> MWH anecdotes...
>

Well I've never been very good at anecdotes but I will try.

In the late eighties I was in university studying physics but I was
having a lot of difficulties with it and my life was a mess for a lot of
reasons. And then I met a girl on Sept 11, 1990 in a chemistry class at
university.  After I got to know her a bit it soon occurred to me that I
was experiencing some of the best days of my life.  We would go to the
movies, roller skating, dancing and we'd hold hands in class etc. On
January 15, 1991  I proposed to her and she accepted.  Sometime later
that day I played PGTW and it dawned on me that today was tuesday and in
fact I met here on tuesday as well!  On Tuesday, (the song), has become
very special to me...she changed my life and took me in from the storm.

senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Walk on Water
Date: 06 Aug 1997 11:26:46 +0000


I noticed this on a few PGTW CDs

The song called Walk on Water Ends alot sooner that that time listing
on the CD and it just cuts off without fading out. Anybody know what
the story is behind this?

-Richard Holdman

Support the MWH mp3 archive at www.holdman.com/mwh - email me for
details.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) can you walk on water?
Date: 06 Aug 1997 13:30:51 +0000


PGTW was the first CD I ever owned - It just bearly came out and my
mom got it for me for christmas. She kept on calling them Men Without
Heads.

Boy that was a long time ago.

> Funny you should ask.  I was listening to PGTW today and noticed it.
> Not that I haven't during the 1,000,000 times that I have listened to it
> before, but it stuck in my head today.  To answer your question, I don't
> know.
>
> -Eric
>
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vince Silvaggio <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Let's talk Hats again
Date: 06 Aug 1997 18:40:27 -0400


Hey, fellow Hatters.  Maybe we've been scaring off too many new MWH fans
away from our 'community', so maybe we should talk Hats again.  After all,
MWH fans are so precious and few, can we afford to scare them away from the
list??  True, the 'is rap music?' debate is somewhat related to the Hats,
but surely you can see how frustrating it is for a new Hatter to be
bombarded by rap and gay-bashing comments.  Mind you, I think we should be
able to talk about what we want on the list.  Maybe the trick is to
interject something that's Hats-related into the mix so that at least we
have a choice of following that route.  So...in a blatant attempt at coming
up with a MWH question everybody can participate in...Were MWH to come to
your city next weekend, and given a 15-song concert, what 15 songs by MWH
would you like Ivan and the boys to play?  And don't forget the order of the
songs.  Well?...

Vince


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Let's talk Hats again
Date: 06 Aug 1997 20:49:13 -0400 (EDT)


In a message dated 97-08-06 19:08:06 EDT, you write:

<< Were MWH to come to
 your city next weekend, and given a 15-song concert, what 15 songs by MWH
 would you like Ivan and the boys to play? >>

Ok,here is my picks....in order....
1) Intro to Eloise
2)Eloise and I
3) In the Name of Angels...Jenny had a vision......
4) I Like
5) I Got the Message
6) Fall Down Gently
7)KenBarbieLove
good rockin tunes to close the first half of the show
8) Living In China
9) In the 21st Century
10) Freeways
and now to work the crowd into controlled chaos...
11) Pop Goes the World
12) The Safety Dance
13) Walk on Water
14) Where do the Boys Go?
and to close the show...........surprise
15) Mother's Opinion...I love this song, and I really can not explain why
encore # 1...The Great Ones Remember, Moonbeam
encore # 2...Sideways

Yeah, I know I left of stuff like Hey Men, but its my show..of course if they
were to come to Columbia, SC, Hootie would have to open for them.  Peace out.

[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: Non-Music
Date: 06 Aug 1997 18:54:00 -0600


> > Stomp used lighters, trashcans, etc. to show us the music in
> everyday
> > sounds.
> >
> > Not to be confused with Stump, who is guilty of the worst (or best)
> > rhyme ever: "Charlton Heston put his vest on."
> >
> >
> > Dave Mattingly

Hey, guess where Stomp is these days!!!  Right in my back yard!!

They're here in Calgary from August 5-10.  I think I'll go see them! I
see why they call themselves Stomp. On the commercial they have oildrums
strapped to their feet and, you guessed it, are stomping around.  Cool!!

senz

(btw,  I'd take MWH worst 15 songs in any order if they'd play Calgary
one more time!!!!)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Russ Kemsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Let's talk Hats again
Date: 07 Aug 1997 01:54:00 UT



My dream performance:

1. No Dancing (with the stage still dark and gradually getting lighter)
2. Unsatisfaction (after all...it has to follow No Dancing)
3. Freeways
4. The Safety Dance
5. I Am The Walrus
6. Modern(e) Dancing
7. Messiahs Die Young
8. Antarctica (1980)
9. Things In My Life
10. I Like
11. Ideas For Walls
12. Where Do The Boys Go?
13. Sideways
14. The Great Ones Remember
Encore: Mother's Opinion - Extra extra long (15 minutes at least) (not just
'one' of my favorites...my DEFINATE favorite all-time MWH song).

-Russ


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers exact price
Date: 07 Aug 1997 00:06:05 -0400 (EDT)


Hey hatters.

OK, I got the confirmation today.

The price for the sticker is really 500$ for 5000.   It work like that:

350$ for the material (adhesive and paper)
75$ for two color plate.


so it is really 10$ per 100.

We have 3600 stickers sold.  We need 5000.............. DONT MISS YOUR CHANCE
TO OWN THEM!!!!!!!!!!!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: * <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) wish list
Date: 07 Aug 1997 00:08:55 +0000


Ivan/mwhs wishful setlist

1  the spell
2 sideways
3 pop goes the world (doughboys version)
4 kenbarbielove
5 www
6 editions of you
7 i sing last not for tears
8 jenny wore black
9 where do the boys go?
10 the safety dance
11 security
12 messiahs die young
13freeways
14 the end of the world (ivan on accordian)
15 mothers opinion

has ivan ever done any obscure Lou REED songs?


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re: (hats) Let's talk Hats again
Date: 07 Aug 1997 02:07:16 -0400 (EDT)



In a message dated 8/6/97 5:52:27 PM, you wrote:

<<15) Mother's Opinion...I love this song, and I really can not explain why>>

One of their all time greatest, that's why!!! I like your list. I'd probably
add "O Sole Mio"  and "Underneath the Rainbow," but the greatest percentage
of my favorites are off "Folk of..." I thought "Sounds familiar but it
doesn't sound the same" from Mother's Opinion would make an excellent quote
for a future t-shirt. Just the right amount of inside...




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: Re: (hats) being ignored by straight HATEFUL white males
Date: 07 Aug 1997 02:09:35 -0500 (CDT)


 thanks for the kind mail Dale, perhaps Ivan should see this one for sure!
You sure don't sound like a Hatter to me, more like SLAYER!-Will
>will,
>
>what the fuck is wrong with you, you bozo!
>God made adam and eve not adam and steve!!!!!
>
>i work with a guy who chooses your life-style and he is one of the most
>polite professional guy i've ever known
>he does not brag or go off on his belief, he's got good sense and he excells
>at his job. my question is why are there wierd fuckers like you who have to
>first of all be proud of what you are and then bring it with you everywhere
>you go. shut up about your cum guzzlin stupid self and just talk about
>MWH!!!!!!!!
>its a good thing you don't live near me cuz i'd beat the hell out of you.
>not because you're a fag but because you make trouble!!!!!
>
>MWH rules
>
>signed,
>body building by me,
>dale



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) Highly illogical-Spock
Date: 07 Aug 1997 03:20:36 -0500 (CDT)


Man o Man, this certainly gets out there with the back lashing! I'll assume
you're the folks who aren't replying to my comments and I couldn't win you
over if I had the MWH's play in my backyard. You can hate me all you want
to, but Hats fans come in many colors and sexual persuassions. Bigots come
in all flavors too! perhaps I shouldn't have put out a gay flag on this
thing, it appears there's some Jesse helm folk with techno taste. Look, I'm
more assexual than anything, i haven't touched another human in three years
in that "way", and I come from a religious ZEALOT background with a beer
swelling bible toteing Dad who would come home and beat his wife after
getting slushed at some sleazy honky tonk on a nightly basis. I've  read the
Bible over and over, been to all types of churches and the feeling that
something "sounds familiar but it just doesn't sound the same" keeps coming
back over and over. I must have prayed a thousand times to become straight,
it never happened, murders & wars still happen, babies get thrown in toilets
and my world saddens me daily. Men Without Hats were one of this planets
saving graces for me. It wasn't even a sexual appeal at first, but as I grew
to love them, my feelings for Ivan grew too. But crushes come and go, but
the music stayed the same, and thats where i am man! can you dig it man? are
you with me man? I use to be a metal head in high school, but with the
advent of the 80's, I found myself drawn to synth music more and more. Gary
Numan and the like. To be honest, I always wished I was either a Vulcan with
no human emotions or a android. the human thing bums me out and this
religious thing all too confusing.
What can i say folks, I'm a neurotic queen who likes the hats, looking for
the same perhaps. Now I plainly see I should be happy they're Hatters of
"all" walks of life, not just my tiny world of fagdom. I am exhausted by the
crap that has pured from my terminal, with no one to blame but me  for
fanning the fires.
I don't care who or what you are, athiest, christian, budhist, jew, queer or
bi or straight, i know that for whatever the reason, MWH's have had a major
influence on all our lives and has given me happiness on a grim & dark
planet called earth. and when and if  Armageddon does come, I'll be the
first one to throw myself under the horse that Christ supposedly will ride
upon to kill the pain of living in this dark, empty , meaningless world!-Will
When the world will live as one-J.lennon (someone Ivan deeply admired!)peace!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hiram Lester, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: Walk on Water
Date: 07 Aug 1997 03:28:46 -0500 (CDT)


On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Richard Holdman wrote:

> I noticed this on a few PGTW CDs
>
> The song called Walk on Water Ends alot sooner that that time listing
> on the CD and it just cuts off without fading out. Anybody know what
> the story is behind this?

The Pop CD has got to be one of the worst tracked CD's I've ever seen.  We
noticed some oddities when my best friend and I DJ'd a dance.  Several of
the tracks don't end until the next track leaving a second or two of the
first song off if you just play it, and having the last beat of the
previous song on the second track.  It probably has to do with the fact
that the album is kind of a concept album and many of the tracks just
kinda run together.  Also may have to do with being in the early days of
the CD...

   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
   | Hiram W. Lester, Jr.               | E-Mail: [e-mail]    |
   | Computer Science                   | Home page:                    |
   | Middle Tennessee State University  |   http://pobox.com/~hwlester/ |
   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) my last words
Date: 07 Aug 1997 05:13:35 -0500 (CDT)


To all who are loving nature and unbigoted minds, I wish to say thank you
for your messages. I have fumble the ball of commications on this wonderful
list to many times to save face I'm afriad, even though I've tried several
times to divert the issues back with "hat tales" and such, and whether it
was real or imagined i did feel ignored on the list for the most part, and
perhaps I know the real reason. Gay haters are everywhere, even here on a
list that attracts wonderful people of all walks of life, good and bad. I
don't have the time or energy to continue these ridiculous debates of
freedom of expression in a not so free world. at this point I simply say
"fuck it! this isn't working out, you wonderful people out there (and you
know who you are) I send you my love and hope to get an ocaasional letter
from you, and to the rest... I truly pity your dim hostile perspectives and
hope like hell that Christ is real so he can kick your ever hating butts all
the way to HELL! Maybe you should go join the group called "men who wears
sheets"!
Adios everybody! Ciao! All you need is Love and a (whole lotta cash). Peace
to those who need it!  Will
   ..........there are things I will always regret,,,there are things I'll
never forget!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Let's talk Hats again
Date: 07 Aug 1997 09:07:40 +0000


Hi Hatters!

Vince asks...
> what 15 songs by MWH
> would you like Ivan and the boys to play?  And don't forget the order of the
> songs.

Here's my play-list, plus my analyses and rationale.

The crowd is assembled - we radiate from the stage in an appreciative
semi-circle.  For most of us, this is *the* event we've been waiting
our whole lives (or half our lives) for.  The stage is empty except
for the instruments.  An expectant hush settles over the assembly.

Lights on the stage are dim, the dry-ice machine is working
overtime.  Plink-plink-plink-plink.  Plink-plink-plink-plink.  I know
the feeling I can see it in the mirror...  Ivan begins to emerge from
the haze.

1 Security
2 Living in China
3 Freeways

I would begin the concert with these early songs.  I always associate
these songs with exploration of the self and one's relationship to
one's society.  We go from self-analysis and doubt (it *seems* right,
but no one else really understands) to wondering if our life is
really all it's cracked up to be (what would Chairman Mao say???) to
confidence in one's chosen path (Turn left, turn right, don't be
afraid).

4  Ideas for Walls
5  Messiahs Die Young
6  In the 21st Century

Full lights by the time this set begins.  These songs, I feel, show
Ivan's changing persepective as a social commentator.  In the glare
of the footlights, Ivan states his important messages about keeping
an open mind, holding fast to one's beliefs, and keeping the future
in mind.  We change from a very upbeat personal message to a more
global understanding of how we fit in to the world and a warning
about protecting our environment.

After these songs, give everyone a little break.  Dim the lights
again as everyone leaves the stage except for maybe Colin on
keyboards.

                Half-light, muted colors on the spots
6.5  Jenny's Waltz
             Bright primary colors as Ivan dashes back out to the stage
7  Jenny Wore Black
          While the crowd is cheering wildly, turn the lights back down
          low, and pick up more on the greens and blues and mute the
          yellows and reds
7.5 Intro to Eloise
8  Eloise and I
          Finally, bring the lights back up, mostly white with some colors
          off to the sides.  But Ivan is definitely in the spotlight here
9  Fall Down Gently

Eeeeww, gack!  Squishy love songs!  But again, the perspective
changes throughout the set.  First, a very hopeful, upbeat, fun
perspective on love - a "we can overcome all obstacles" sort of
message, in my opinion.  Then a more mature love - thinking about
the future and commitment; recognizing that a relationship has its
ups and downs.  Finally,  a brush with the cynical side of love, but
still echoing the idea that it's better to have loved and lost than
never to have loved at all.  By sharing ourselves with another
person, we grow.

All lights up.

10 The Spell
11 Everybody's Selling Something
11.5 Intro to Walk on Water
12 Walk on Water

The final set, I think, is a lot about Ivan's and MWH's relations
with their fans and the public in general.  In the beginning, MWH
were really focused on the artistry and the message in their music,
but soon were overwhelmed by their successes (refer to some of
Ivan's interviews from right before Pop Goes the World).  Also, some
of their early naivte got them screwed (I don't think we need to
name names here, do we?).  The mesmerising, glamourous spell was
about to be broken.  We all got a bit cynical in the late 80s and
early 90s.  But through it all, we survived, even though we did all
the wrong things in innocence or in haste.

Encores (I will let my Encores round out the 15 rather than pad it -
Don't want to be greedy, plus Ivan et al. put so much energy in to
their live performances, I don't want them to be hyperventilating or
go into cardiac arrest or anything!)

13 Safety Dance (you didn't think I'd forget this, did you?)
14 Bright Side of the Sun
15 Open Your Eyes

We start the encore with the song that started it all for most of
us. Their first big US hit, which skyrocketed up the charts in *20*
countries (Thanks, Gregor W!).  Then there was a long dry spell for
MWH as performers here in the US, but we dedicated Hatters stuck
with them, still believing in the message and still listening to the
music.  At last, our patient admiration was rewarded as Ivan came
back to us.  I think this is a good upbeat note for Ivan to finish
the concert with - hopeful.  Things haven't always gone right, or
the way we would want or plan, but together, we can get through it.
*THERE* is the world we have been looking for.

Oy, I'm so verklempt!  Talk amongst yourselves.  Here's a topic. . .
They're Men Without Hats, but Ivan wears a hat often.  Discuss.

Sorry, I'm back now.  (Anyone who never saw Mike Myers do Cawfee Tawk
on Sat. Night Live, please disregard the above paragraph.)  I like
that list.  I think I'll have to make up a tape of it and see how it
gels. . .

Can't wait to see other people's lists!!!

Bye 4 now!!

;-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Will Finn
Date: 07 Aug 1997 12:04:35 -0400


I think we should try to help Finn, we could send him e-mail to convince him
to come back. I'm realy disapointed to see what a mess it did, but there is
some times in our life when we have to help other people and prove them that
we are indee    MEN AND WOMEN WITHOUT HATE.



                                                                        Simon



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re: Walk on Water
Date: 07 Aug 1997 09:13:34 -0700 (PDT)



>
> On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Richard Holdman wrote:
>
> > The song called Walk on Water Ends alot sooner that that time listing
> > on the CD and it just cuts off without fading out. Anybody know what
> > the story is behind this?
>
> The Pop CD has got to be one of the worst tracked CD's I've ever seen.

Nah, that distinction belongs to "Blue Sky On Mars" by Matthew Sweet.
Whoever mastered it didn't know what the hell they were doing.

Don2
[e-mail]





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) My Setlist
Date: 07 Aug 1997 12:39:13 -0400 (EDT)



Alright here is mine,

1- Bright Side Of the Sun (Done all in darkness)

lights come on and we see them at the start of...
2-Jenny Wore Black
3- Where do the Boys Go
4- Antartica
5- In the 21st Century
6- On Tuesday
7- I Like
8- Messiahs Die Young
9- Pop Goes The World
10- The Great Ones Remember
12- Mother's Opinion
13- The Real World
14- Freeways
15- O Sole Mio
16- Safety Dance

Encore:
17- Moonbeam
18- Eloise and I
19- Ideas For Walls
20- The End Of the World

Alright, I know... but Pop Goes The World Is my very favorite album of all
time and if this is not based on reality, then I get to pick whatever I want!

-Drew



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) NEGATIVE WAVES
Date: 07 Aug 1997 13:24:08 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, fellow hatters, Angie here.  I'm a little bit disturbed about some
of the things I have been reading on the "hats" postings.

This kind of thing reflects negatively on all of us.

I'm sure most of you would agree with me.  I love this mailing list and I
hope to be a member for a long, long time. But I hate sitting down to my
e-mail and reading things that I wouldn't want my mother to know I'm
reading.

This week I went to Maine to pick up my ten-year-old brother Dustin so
he could spend some time with me in Massachusetts.  On the way down, we
listened to my cassette of PGTW.  Well, Dustin thought that music was the
best he had ever heard, even better than the music on his Nintendo games!
He asked me all kinds of questions about Men Without Hats, and he even
wanted to see a picture of Ivan to see what he looks like.

Needless to say, I was a proud hatter indeed.  So I took him to the library
with me to gather my e-mail from the MWH mailing list.

Dustin reads really well, I might add.

When I saw some of the things that were coming up on the screen, my shock
and embarrassment was mirrored by that of my little brother.

Dustin still thinks Men Without Hats are the "coolest" but I'm not so sure
he feels comfortable anymore with the concept of mailing lists.

I hope this sort of thing will never happen again, especially on a mailing
list that celebrates some of the happiest, most fulfilling, endearing
music ever created.

On a more cheerful note, I would like to post my "dream concert" by MWH:

Intro: No Dancing
Right into: Unsatisfaction
3)  Bright Side of the Sun
4)  O Sole Mio
5)  Folk of the 80's
6)  Lose My Way (solo by Ivan on his piano)
7)  Eloise and I
8)  Where do the Boys Go?
9)  Things In My Life
10) Walk on Water
11) Moonbeam (my all time favorite MWH song)
12) Ideas for Walls
13) I Sing Last/Not for Tears
(another solo w/ piano)
14) I like
 Then for the encores:

15)Pop Goes the World
16)Utter Space
17)Safety Dance


And then everyone in the MWH mailing list gets backstage access after the show
and we party all night with the band!!!!!!!

(Hey, I can dream, can't I?)

Bye for now, everyone!  :-)

=}>  (this is a flying plane by Dustin.)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jupiter Eight)
Subject: Re: (hats) being ignored by straight white males
Date: 06 Aug 1997 23:19:32 -0400


I have kept quiet until now but I must give my 2 cents as Will just
doesn't seem to want to let this one die - and noone seems to be removing
him for continuing his rant on this list. So here goes:

You know it really is sad to see people on this list having such a hissy
fit because they don't get enough attention. This list is not a forum for
anyone to stress their abnormal sexual activities whether it be with the
same sex, animals, children, dead people or what have you. And if someone
is shocked at me being so graphic then I must say that the reason I must
mention them all is that they are all common in that they are all
adopted, behavioural choices - not genetic, hereditary orientations. If
I'm wrong, then show me the scientific evidence to the contrary -
statistical evidence proves that I am right. Therefore, if this is the
case, and if there is nothing wrong with boasting about abnormal
behaviour on this list as Will has, then there is also nothing wrong with
someone speaking out against the same abnormal behaviour. Either way it
is an affront to the list. It is not a personal attack against WIll
anymore than Will's remarks about homosexuality are an attack against me.
So either have Will taken off, shut up, or expect more of this to come
from others. (i.e. how would all of you feel if I began to get angry with
all of you because I publicly acknowledged I was a cannibal and felt you
weren't treating me "good enough" because of it? And what if I continued
to point out cannibalistic tendancies in Ivan's lyrics and wouldn't let
up about it?)

I don't hate Will - but I am bold enough to publicly acknowledge that I
hate his preferences and everything they stand for. I cannot change that
fact and if it means that I am removed from this list due to "my
preferences" to the contrary...then so be it. What urks me is that it
always has to come down to this "discrimination" crybaby stuff and it is
always those who have a problem that make such a big deal about their own
problems publicly - sexual preferences NEVER should have been mentioned
by Will in the first place. If he wasn't so bold to glory in his shame,
Will wouldn't be facing the "so-called" persecution he thinks he is
receiving. So calm down and quit blaming others for your behaviour and
get a grip on yourself Will. And if you continue to push this on the
list...I for one do not want to be a part of it any longer.

You asked what the beef is...the beef is that those who publicly
acknowledge their behaviour should have to deal with the consequences.
I'm willing to. Next time keep your behaviour to yourself and then you
can't blame your unpopularity on your tendancies.

Over and out...

Rod





On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:48:38 -0500 (CDT) [e-mail] (will
finn) writes:
>
>you know it's a damn good thing Ivan doesn't read this hats list cause
>there's a lotta ill suited gibberish on it!
>A world without hate, indeed, not in my life time I'm afraid! I'm sick
>of
>being ignored by most of you, even when I make intelligent
>discussions. yes
>I too am guilty of STUPID remarks, and yes I am gay, big f**king deal,
>I
>suppose you're just too good for folks like me. Why am I even
>bothering to
>be on this unfriendly list anyway? because I , like you, lovethe Hats,
>and I
>like you, like to have inter action with intelligent human beings, or
>so I
>thought, but with the small exception of a handful of kind folks who
>occasionally say hey, I get nada!- Will  ( BTW, there are several
>lyrical
>passages in Hats that atthe very least imply bi-sexual tendencies and
>maybe
>even more, so whats the beef
>fella's, eh?)
>
>
>
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>sender.
># Men Without Hats discography:
>http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?hats
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lazlo Nibble" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Will Finn and other non-Hats topics
Date: 07 Aug 1997 12:01:41 -0600 (MDT)


Everyone involved in this discussion is hereby put on notice that if you have
anything further to say on the subject of Will Finn, homosexuality, or any
other similar topics, you're going to have to do it in PRIVATE EMAIL or face
being removed from the list.  This discussion stops right now.  Got it?

--
::: Lazlo ([e-mail]; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) MY APOLOGY!!!!
Date: 07 Aug 1997 14:54:49 -0500 (CDT)


                     Message to ALL Hatters!!!!!

   Will Finn formally apologizes for flying off the deep end with
conversations not related to Hats issues, and for prodding those who aren't
sympathic to my social behavior. it should be known that I will only be
passively viewing the hats list for awhile and will only inject a comment if
and when it is Hats material and unoffensive to All! Thanks to those who are
"friends" within the Hats magical circle!- Love and Peace to you all!- Will Finn



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH.BMP
Date: 07 Aug 1997 19:48:08 -0400 (EDT)


How many people would like to have a copy of the MWH logo bitmap file
I just scanned yesterday?

It makes great awesome possum wallpaper and is a full 640x480 pixels wide and
high.

I need to do some slight pixel editing to it before I "release" it, but
it shouldn't take too long for me to do what needs to be done to it.

If there is sufficient demand for it (as if there wouldn't be?) I will
upload it for a brief time to my website directory and post the URL here
when it's ready.

I will also .zip it before I upload it.  .BMP files are so large its stupid!

Myke



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) this song is dedicated to....
Date: 08 Aug 1997 10:43:57 -0400


Today I was listening to my "...21st Centruy..." CD and in the beginning of
"S.O.S.", you hear Ivan saying "This song is dedicated to" and then it is
difficult to make out what he says.  Does anyone know?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

SpAsTiCkS! Online comic Book
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (Fwd) (hats) MWH.BMP
Date: 08 Aug 1997 08:28:03 +0000


>How many people would like to have a copy of the MWH logo bitmap
>file I just scanned yesterday?

Sounds great, Myke!  I'd love to have that as a wallpaper.

--Howard


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) this song is dedicated to....
Date: 08 Aug 1997 08:16:52 -0700 (PDT)



>
> Today I was listening to my "...21st Centruy..." CD and in the beginning of
> "S.O.S.", you hear Ivan saying "This song is dedicated to" and then it is
> difficult to make out what he says.  Does anyone know?
>

I am almost positive he says: "Mother Earth".

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...

Don2
[e-mail]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Lyrics
Date: 08 Aug 1997 11:31:49 -0400


Hi, this time, I won't ask for lyrics that I can find on the net, I would
like to have lyrics of MWH songs, I already have

The Safety Dance
Living In China
Antarctica
I Got The Message
I Like
Where Do The Boys Go
Freeways
PGTW
On Tuesday
Sideways
Editions Of You


Thank you


                                                                Simon



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Come and get it!
Date: 08 Aug 1997 13:43:41 -0400 (EDT)


Ok, people!

You've overwhelmed me with requests!  :-)


http://people.delphi.com/mykec/mwh.zip

I also did one in white and one in yellow just like Laura's T-shirts!

This .zip file is only about 24KB in size, however the files uncompressed
are like 308KB.  I hope you all have enough RAM for this.

If you have trouble getting this .zip file let me know!


Enjoy!

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mike  S. Azevedo)
Subject: Re: (hats) Come and get it!
Date: 08 Aug 1997 14:11:05 EDT


Hey Myke,

Enjoying the logo!  Nice work.



Thanks, Mike


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A place for Six-Trak, MAX , Prophet 600 and FZ1 users
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH.GIFs
Date: 08 Aug 1997 17:11:06 -0400 (EDT)


For those who cannot make use of .BMP files, you will be pleased to konw
oops/ know that mwh1.gif and mwh2.gif are now available via my www site too.

http://people.delphi.com/mykec/mwh1.gif
http://people.delphi.com/mykec/mwh2.gif

Enjoy!

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) anim gif
Date: 08 Aug 1997 19:29:36 -0400 (EDT)


I would like to know *how* to create animated GIFs!
I've never done that before.  Your idea sounds great!
Can animated GIFs utilize transparency?

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) New GIF / New Look!
Date: 08 Aug 1997 18:34:12 -0400 (EDT)


Thanks for the suggestion to convert the .BMP files to .GIFs!

After I did that, I thought about using one of them to replace the
"traditional" Max Headroom wallpaper that's behind the pix in my
hats88.htm page.  Wow!  What a tremendous improvement!  I'm blown away
by it!  I've also trimmed some of the pix so that they look better
beside each other in front of the new background graphic.

Check it out!

http://people.delphi.com/mykec/hats88.htm

...and if you like it and want to use it at your own site, be my guest!

I made it for all of us to have and enjoy!

L8r T8rs!

Myke

http://people.delphi.com/mykec/mwh.zip  <--- contains 2 BMP files
http://people.delphi.com/mykec/mwh1.gif
http://people.delphi.com/mykec/mwh2.gif



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) this song is dedicated to....
Date: 08 Aug 1997 23:41:45 -0400 (EDT)


In a message dated 97-08-08 10:45:22 EDT, you write:

<<in the beginning of "S.O.S.", you hear Ivan saying "This song is dedicated
to" and then it is difficult to make out what he says.  Does anyone know?  >>

"I'd like to dedicate this song to Mother Earth..."

Dave K


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bradley N. Hull" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) re: Dedicated to...
Date: 09 Aug 1997 00:03:16 -0400


I've always wondered if Ivan says "Planet Earth" or "Mother Earth". =

However, given the overall flavour of 21st Century, I have always leaned
towards the "Mother Earth" interpretation as well.

>> Today I was listening to my "...21st Centruy..." CD and in the beginni=
ng
of
>> "S.O.S.", you hear Ivan saying "This song is dedicated to" and then it=

is
>> difficult to make out what he says.  Does anyone know?

>I am almost positive he says: "Mother Earth".

Hope to have time to work on my dream concert within the next couple of
days.  It's going to take quite a bit of work!

Later, taters!
Brad


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Soderblom <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) T-Shirt
Date: 09 Aug 1997 13:57:55 -0700


Hello all-
Well, I was at my friend's concert last night at a club in San Jose
(California) and I wore my MWH Shirt.  Everywhere I went in that club,
people were looking at me, admiring the shirt, and while at the bar, I
overheared many people talking about it.  One of the shirts I ordered
was for my friend in the band, who wore it during the show!  It was a
hit!!!!  Thanks Laura!

-Eric


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Soderblom <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Safety Dance
Date: 09 Aug 1997 21:59:45 -0700


Was anyone else watching MTV at 9:29 tonight (Saturday)????   Well, if
you were you would've seen what I saw, "The Safety Dance" video!  I was
soooooo excited.  I haven't seen that video in at least 10 years.  Oh
how I missed those midgets (especially the one with the "ROY T-Shirt").
It made me want to go to a renaissance faire.  MTV has redeemed itself
for airing crap the past 10 years.

-Eric


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude Berthiaume <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH desktop theme
Date: 10 Aug 1997 08:48:01 -0400


I would like to know if anybody knows how to build a desktop theme =
'cause I would like to build a MWH theme. I already have the b/g .bmp =
file (thanks Myke) but I need to know how to build the other stuff like =
the icones!!!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) my Hats collection thus far w/ love
Date: 10 Aug 1997 14:29:52 -0500 (CDT)


Rhythm of Youth (record)(3)
Folk 80's III (record)(2)
Freeways/utterspace/message (ep 12")
Modern Dancing/ Living in China (ep 12" )
Where the Boys Go extended mix/eurotheme (12")
Safety dance/living china (7" 45)"autographed Ivan"
Pop Goes he World (cd)
In the 21st century (cd)
Sideways (cd)
MWH's collection (U.S. cd)
Mwh's greatest Hats (Can. cd)
Men without hats 2 for 1!!!! (cd)
....still working on the dream concert!!!
my mailbox would be hard pressed to match the ultimate gift it can receive,
only a vintage toy of "lost in space" robot, the one that talks and walks
could match such sweet happiness! (warnng, warning,danger, Will robinson!!)
ha ha!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) this song is dedicated to....
Date: 10 Aug 1997 22:21:26 -0400 (EDT)


This song is dedicated to the earth


Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Circuit City
Date: 11 Aug 1997 12:40:48 -0400 (EDT)


I recently went into a newly-opened Circuit City in the Dayton, Ohio, area.
 While conducting my usual search for MWH cds, I stumbled across a copy of
Greatest Hats.  Yes, that's the Canadian one, in a US store, non-import.  I
already have a copy, so if there is anybody out there who wants it, let me
know.  ($11.99 before tax, I think.)

Dave K


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) dream concert 15 songs
Date: 11 Aug 1997 13:14:01 -0500 (CDT)


Boy, this was a tough one! This is my first round of choosing, I have a
feeling I would switch out a few for others but for now, wha-la....
   with the lights down the as we get settled music will be "cocoricci" but
not actually part of the line up....then a swell of likes as
1. I like ....begins
2. the great ones remember (pt I)
3. Things I will remember
lights go dim again, small spot on Ivan..
4. No dancing/ Unsatisfaction (these songs are tied together in my mind)
(lights kick up with unsatisfaction begins)
5. where the boys go (extended mix of course!)
6.S.o.s.
7. you and me
8. all we do
9. on tuesday
10. real world
11. in the name of angels
12. lost forever
13. in the meadows
14. The End of the world (false ending-lights fade down as balloons are
bouncing and everyones in a melancholy high....people start cheering as the
lights fade  out, myriads of lighters go flashing
15. Love (all over the world) is the encore, the crowd is in a frenzy as they
inject lyrics from the beatles "all you need is love" near end fade out....
more, more! but...all things come to pass! drats!!!!-Will, this is really 17
songs I suppose, but the intro can be pre-recorded...nah! what the hey!
as fot the wonderful song "mother's opinion", it could replace the last
song, but it's a slower trippier song, perhaps it should be a special "video!"
....I always have the weirdest imagery for this song, it's really unusual
and one of my faves, but I prefer their romantic stuff. I discribe my
"video" in me next letter.-Will...again (love you!)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Dream Concert | mp3 site
Date: 11 Aug 1997 14:29:19 +0000


Dream Concert for MWH

The band comes out and does a cover of Major Tom.
Ivan throws water ballons at the crowd. Lights go on
and the show is over.

:)

About the mp3 site - Tomorrow the MWH archive will open with the mp3s
that we have so far including SafteyDance BioMix and the UK remix
version that was done a few years back - Also will be the complete
PGTW and the 21st Cent CDS - Coming online soon will be the 3 CD
bootleg set - I plan to have everything on the site at some point
(The sideways album will not be there - I bought it and was
disapointed so I sold it  to some record store, so I dont have it
anymore) - make sure to check it! The mwh music archive can be
located at www.holdman.com/mwh

If you have any comments or questions please send them to me.
Thanks!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Soderblom <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) hats sites
Date: 11 Aug 1997 19:04:27 -0700


Hello all-
I am making a site index to all MWH sites.  If you have a MWH site or
know of one please send me the URL.  I am too lazy to make a full site
devoted to MWH with info, pix, etc, so I figure that this will be my
little contribution.  Thanks!

-Eric


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) SAFETY DANCE video
Date: 12 Aug 1997 09:53:05 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everyone, Angie here.  I'm surprised to hear that MTV actually aired
an "ancient" video like "the Safety Dance" among the heaps of garbage I
have been seeing on that channel lately.  For all of your information,
VH-1 often airs entire weekends of 80's videos, where they play almost
every popular 80's video made, in alphabetical order, over 3 days & nites.
I have seen the "Safety Dance" video several times over the past 2 years
on VH-1, but they never play "Pop Goes The World". I guess that wasn't
popular enough for them. Oh, well. Once I get my fan-made videotape I'll
never starve for another MWH video again!!!!  Bye for now!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) DREAM CONCERT
Date: 12 Aug 1997 10:11:13 -0400 (EDT)




Ivan would sound AWESOME doing a version of "Major Tom".  Also I think he
would be right for a Jethro Tull song, maybe "Aqualung" or "Thick as a Brick."

Does anyone else want to contribute some input as to which cover songs, in your
opinion, are perfectly suitable for the vocal and/or musical style of Ivan?

Bye for now,   Angie.




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas Bieler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) DREAM CONCERT
Date: 12 Aug 1997 18:07:24 +0200 (MET DST)


> Ivan would sound AWESOME doing a version of "Major Tom".
Anyone else who would like to join Dave and me on a Peter Schilling
mailing list?
[very big grin]

[Dave: Will write soon!]


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: Re: (hats) DREAM CONCERT
Date: 12 Aug 1997 13:46:16 -0500 (CDT)


Hey Angie, That is so weird, while I was cooking breakfast I was thinking about
about Ian Anderson playing flute on "on tuesday" and wondered if Ivan did a
cover of Tull which one should it be. Which is a hard call, Tull has so much
music, i know I have them all! Maybe from the "A" album he could do "Further On"
and there's more keybd stuff on that album. From "Broadsword" there is the
Ivan-esque "seal driver","pussy willow" and "flying colors"(whats that dang
title). And you're right as was the mp3 guy about Major Tom. I still Think
he should do a Johnny cash song for laughs though! (had to get that in
there!ha!)
-Willamiester aka TROUBLE! ha ha!
>Ivan would sound AWESOME doing a version of "Major Tom".  Also I think he
>would be right for a Jethro Tull song, maybe "Aqualung" or "Thick as a Brick."
>
>Does anyone else want to contribute some input as to which cover songs, in your
>opinion, are perfectly suitable for the vocal and/or musical style of Ivan?
>
>Bye for now,   Angie.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan covers Tull...
Date: 12 Aug 1997 15:07:29 +0000


Hi all!

I'm back, after a brief enforced absence.  They (the nameless,
faceless they) were "re-doing" my computer.  I think that it's ready
now, but we'll see.  ;-)

The Jethro Tull songs I would most like to hear Ivan do would be
Heavy Horses or Fires at Midnight.  (Can you tell which Tull album I
like best?)

Jim (Mr. Laura), as most of you know already, dislikes MWH intensely
(particularly since I made him listen to The Spell 4X this weekend).
 But he is a biiiiig fan of Tull.  When I pointed out to him that
Ian Anderson played flute on Til Tuesday, I thought Jim's head was
going to spin around.  It was very funny, actually.  :-)

CUL8R!!

:-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) mothers opinion in video dream
Date: 12 Aug 1997 16:07:11 -0500 (CDT)


Not since thetime i heard "Yes-And you and I" from close to the edge in
earphones and dreamed of hovering over forest of pine trees and spruces and
flying in a valley in a "flying convertable car while hearing that song had
I had such intense visions, until I heard "Mothers opinion" way back in the
80's. The dream unfolds like this...
as the song begins, there is a ariel shot of what could be Canadian forest,
and a Indian village can be seen by a river. as Ivan starts to sing, closes
up of him in the wilderness, walking on giant trees that have fallen. theres
a scene of pilgrims building log cabins and cutting wood the old way.
meanwhile it keeps cutting to the indians with closes ups of them in full
feathers costumes doing some kind of ritual dance and a faint sound of them
chanting w/ those rattle like things shaking. this cuts back to a scene in
the redwood forest where the tree's are enormous and dwarves Ivan as he
continues to sing. Meanwhile a cut to modern industrial woodshops at a
lumber mill and giant tractors mowing down the forest and making it all
noting but stumps is seen. As the song closes, you see the redwoods with the
Indians dancing faded in and out and it slowly desolves into a another areil
shot where it shows massive damage to the woodlands. and the Indians fade
away completely....ends with a global view of the earth as a beautiful blue
marble as seen from space. ( in the lumbermill scenes, those strange effects
in the percussion section work well with the automation of wood being sliced
and moved around by machines-maybe a shot of logs being shot down those
plume-like waterways would be nice too) this is all done within the songs
slow tempo with the fades and desolves working together well. That's it!-Will
I don't know why this song conserges up images of native americans but it does!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) mp3 archive
Date: 12 Aug 1997 17:11:12 +0000


I ran into a few things that delayed me from gettingthe mp3 archive
up. The whole thing will be up in a few days. There are some of the
mp3s online right now.

Currently we have some of the freeways live concert on the site. I
would like to thank J.R. BOOKWALTER for sending me a DAT tape with
all the source material that the 3 CD bootleg set was made from.

To can get on the mp3 archive by ftping to ftp.holdman.com and using
mwh (in lowecase) for the username and password. You can also access
the mp3 archive through the web at http://www.holdman.com/mwh/mp3

Be the end of the week I should have my whole collecton of MWH
online.

-Richard


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) mp3 archive updated
Date: 13 Aug 1997 10:00:21 +0000


mp3 archive has been updated with more
songs. www.holdman.com/mwh

-Rich


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) PEN PALS
Date: 13 Aug 1997 17:38:17 -0400 (EDT)




Hello, everyone, Angie here.  I was wondering if there was anyone else out
there who would care to be "pen pals" with me, through the "snail mail".

    We could:

        * compare our collections of MWH stuff

        * give each other reports on MWH concerts we've been to

        * analyze the lyrics to any and all MWH songs, in-depth

        * compare and contrast the old music with Ivan's new music

        * discuss the history and future of MWH

        * discuss how MWH has influenced and enriched us on a personal level

        * exchange opinions on MWH's popularity over the years, what they
          could have done to improve the public's acceptance of their music


...and just generally chat about the greatest band in the world, its members
and music.

        Interested?  Simply e-mail me with your address and I will get back
to you right away with mine.  I love to write but have limited time on this
darn library computer.



         Everyone ready for a trivia question?  Here it is:

         WHAT IS IVAN'S FAVORITE MOVIE?




 Bye for now!
      :-)




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Soderblom <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hats site index
Date: 13 Aug 1997 15:09:01 -0700


Well, I put up the MWH site index <http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom>
Check it out.  if you find any mistakes or know of more URL's, let me
know.  Thanks again to Dave Mattingly who gave me over 20 links!

L8R-
Eric


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Ivan covers Tull...
Date: 13 Aug 1997 18:23:28 -0400 (EDT)


I would vote for ' Home ' from their best album Stormwatch, or 'Said She Was
a Dancer' from Crest of a Knave

still waiting for Schilling's 1st two albums on cd

dan


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Avi Rosenthal" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Romance and MWH
Date: 13 Aug 1997 23:27:59 UT




----------
Sent:     Thursday, August 07, 1997 6:52 PM

 this story is not really romantic but it is the reason that I am in love with

 MWH and a loyal fan for all of these years:

 when I was 16 I took a summer long trip to Israel with a youth program.  to
 put it bluntly, it changed my life.  we worked on army bases, helped in a
 children's hospital, in an old-age home, and hiked most of the country on
 foot.  it was more than just a spiritual trip, it was a trip that taught me
 how to stand on my own two feet.  this was the first time in my life that I
 spent this much time away from home.

 because of the way we traveled, I could not take a lot of stuff with me.  one

 of the things that I took was my walkman and 4 tapes.  the four tapes were
 Police Synchronicity (sp?), U2 WAR, Journey, and MWH ROY.  needless to say
 that I listened to these 4 tapes over and over again.  they became part of my

 trip.

 after I came home I was very depressed because I wanted to go back to Israel
 and live there.  unfortunately, it was not in the cards.  It took me a long
 time to be able to listen to the tapes again because they brought back my
 memories of the trip and I would get depressed all over again.  now that a
lot
 of time has passed, I enjoy listening to the music so that I can remember.

 I made many close friends during that summer, and I travel to Israel at least

 once a year now to visit with the people and the places that I fell in love
 with during that summer.  someday I hope to move there with my wife and
 daughter
 to live in the land of milk and honey.

 Well, thanks for reading...

 Avi



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers.......  list..........
Date: 14 Aug 1997 10:10:46 -0400 (EDT)


hey hatters.

Ok here is the list for stickers.......  Check if you name and numbers of
stickers is ok

tom norman        300
Rod            100        [e-mail]
Jeff                  200        [e-mail] (Harding Jeff)
Dave Krupla        300        ElKrupla
wolfgang        100        [e-mail]
Simon            200        [e-mail]
Jeff                  100        [e-mail]
vince            300        [e-mail]
frank            100        [e-mail]
Eric soderblom    100        [e-mail] (Eric W. Soderblom)
Gregor            100        [e-mail] (Gregor Watson)
Jeff                  100        [e-mail] (Harding Jeff)
Laura            300        [e-mail]
Trena            100        [e-mail] (Trena Brantley)
Richard Holdman100        [e-mail] (Richard Holdman)
Jon Stanley        100        [e-mail] (Jon Stanley)
Senz            100        [e-mail] (Steven Enz)
Woody Zenfell    100        [e-mail] (Woody Zenfell)
Myke            200        [e-mail] (LORD HASENPFEFFER)
Angie            100        [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Christopher Frey100        [e-mail] (Christopher Edward Frey)
AND ME            500

Total:                       3700


What can I say, we need 5000 to proceed........
If some of you still interested to get some MWH stickers back to the old
time, let me know in a private message

ciao

P.s.  Sorry, I tried!!!!!!


Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) COOL WEB SITE
Date: 14 Aug 1997 12:57:22 -0400 (EDT)




I am really impressed with this new web site <http://home.earthlink.net/~
soderblom>. I just checked it out and I had no idea how much stuff there is
floating around on the net about Men Without Hats!!  What is really fascinating
is reading the old e-mail postings from the Hats list.  Allan McCarthy actually
took part in the discussions back then!  There are a lot of cool & interesting
stories within the archives. I recommend that any new member to this list
(like myself) check it out just to get some background information on what has
been previously discussed in this list, and possibly you will find the answers
to long-standing questions that you have about Men Without Hats!!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) more stuff added
Date: 14 Aug 1997 12:25:46 +0000


All of the 3CD bootlegs have been added to the mp3 archive as of
today. Right now there are 78 sogns that total 307megs.

I need to get the whole ROY and Folk of the 80s albums on the site.
I have the vinyl but would like to use CDS to make the mp3s. I can
not get the new release of ROY and Folk of the 80s here in the US.
Can anybody let me borrow theirs (I will send it right back to you)
or anybody know where I can mail order the discs from?

If you have anything that is not on the mp3 archive I wold love to
put it on. You can either convert it to mp3 yourself and send it to
me or send me the material and I will convert it and then send it
back to you.

Thanks!

-Richard Holdman

P.S. I was in a used CD store yesterday and they had the UK import of
Saftey Dance for sale for only $2.99 - They only have all the jewel
cases when you look through them and when you buy it they put the CD
in. Well guess what, the lady there could not find the cd :(


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude Berthiaume <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH icon
Date: 14 Aug 1997 17:04:50 -0400


Hi, some people know that I'm trying to make a MWH desktop theme, can =
someone sent me ideas on MWH related icons???I only made the MWH logo on =
yellow back so far. So please give me ideas!!!


Simon


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas Bieler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) more stuff added
Date: 15 Aug 1997 13:25:47 +0200 (MET DST)


> I need to get the whole ROY and Folk of the 80s albums on the site.
> I have the vinyl but would like to use CDS to make the mp3s. I can
> not get the new release of ROY and Folk of the 80s here in the US.
> Can anybody let me borrow theirs (I will send it right back to you)
> or anybody know where I can mail order the discs from?
Hey, Richard, you're doing a great job. Where do you take all that HD space
from?
Yet, I thought there was an agreement to put only songs on the archive that
are NOT available on official items which are in still print ...

:(

Sorry, must be said. The archive is a great job as long as it is for
stuff not available elsewhere.

Thomas


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Les hommes sans chapeaux
Date: 15 Aug 1997 11:56:56 -0400


Hey, does anyone want to learn French so they can understand the French
lyrics on their albums?  In a computer newspaper here, there is an article
about online language courses (for free too!).  There are courses for
Chinese, Japanese, Latin, Spanish, Welsh, Swedish, and Hungarian.  I haven't
checked it out but the URL for the french site is:

http://www.oznet.com.au/France


Au revoir!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harding Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 15 Aug 1997 11:43:29 -0400


All,

If any of you are 'real' MWH fans like myself, this should come as know
surprise to you, but I wanted to bring it up for discussion purposes.
While we all know what the MWH logo looks like, if you look closely at
all the different 'iterations' of it, you'll notice that in many cases
the head/hat portion is off center..in other words...not centered in the
circle - both left to right and top to bottom. Also, the line which runs
across the circle does NOT split the circle in to two EQUAL halves -
this is apparent on the ROY album cover. Also, the angle at which the
line crosses the circle is not consistent - you can very clearly see
this by where on the head/hat the line crosses. Also, in some cases the
head/hat will appear taller, top to bottom, or wider, side to side. This
might seem trivial to most of you, but as I am thinking of getting a
small MWH logo tattoo, it is very important to me!!

Any thoughts are encouraged!!

Seeya,

Jeff (The BigDog)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 15 Aug 1997 09:30:35 -0700 (PDT)


If you look at the red line that runs across the head, it's positioned so that
the left side of the hat's brim and the earlobes of the right ear are
not obscured. It's actually very clever... with the red line positioned as
it is, you get the maximum amount of visible details from the head/hat.

And for the same reason, the head/hat is off center.

Don't be such a stickler for "symmetry"... I feel that the design is
classically perfect.

Don2
[e-mail]

>
> If any of you are 'real' MWH fans like myself, this should come as know
> surprise to you, but I wanted to bring it up for discussion purposes.
> While we all know what the MWH logo looks like, if you look closely at
> all the different 'iterations' of it, you'll notice that in many cases
> the head/hat portion is off center..in other words...not centered in the
> circle - both left to right and top to bottom. Also, the line which runs
> across the circle does NOT split the circle in to two EQUAL halves -
> this is apparent on the ROY album cover. Also, the angle at which the
> line crosses the circle is not consistent - you can very clearly see
> this by where on the head/hat the line crosses. Also, in some cases the
> head/hat will appear taller, top to bottom, or wider, side to side. This
> might seem trivial to most of you, but as I am thinking of getting a
> small MWH logo tattoo, it is very important to me!!
>
> Any thoughts are encouraged!!
>
> Seeya,
>
> Jeff (The BigDog)
>



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) archive
Date: 15 Aug 1997 10:57:56 +0000


> Can you buy them anymore? If you can I will not put them on the
> archive. Also i want to buy a copy myself. Where can I get them? I
> live in the US.
>
> -Rich
>
> > Yet, I thought there was an agreement to put only songs on the
> > archive that are NOT available on official items which are in
> > still print ...
> >
> > :(
> >
> > Sorry, must be said. The archive is a great job as long as it is
> > for stuff not available elsewhere.
> >
> > Thomas
> >


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harding Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Logo integrity...
Date: 15 Aug 1997 13:13:54 -0400


D. Stroud----

You TOTALLY missed my point.....the logo is NEVER the same...you've
described 1 of many iterations of the logo.....

-Jeff



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 15 Aug 1997 10:42:05 -0700 (PDT)


Oh, I got your point. I just feel that you're more concerned with the
*appearance* of the logo than the *purpose* of the logo.

And besides, if you *do* get the logo as a tattoo, in a few years it'll be
a faded oblong blob on your skin, so it won't matter.

Don2

>
> You TOTALLY missed my point.....the logo is NEVER the same...you've
> described 1 of many iterations of the logo.....



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) TRIVIA ANSWER
Date: 15 Aug 1997 14:49:58 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everyone, it's Angie.  I have a couple of things to say regarding the
tattoo discussion.
If you get a good, reputable tattoo artist to do the work, with the latest
colors and equipment, and you actually take care of your tattoo by putting
sunblock and moisturizer on it, and you don't gain a massive amount of
weight in the area in which the tattoo is drawn, you will have no problems
admiring its beauty for years.  How do I know this?  I have a small butterfly
on my right ankle that has maintained its color and shape thru a little
care & no exposure to the sun.  I was once considering getting a small
MWH logo myself but rejected the idea because I didn't want a tattoo that
appeared "dated".  I wanted something with more universal symbolism, not
something that people would see in 20 years and go, "What the heck is that?!"
For any of you who are contemplating getting a tattoo, anyone who says it
doesn't hurt is full of bull. It really hurts, especially if you get it on
a bony area like an ankle or shoulder blade.

OK. Now to get back on topic, here is the answer to the trivia question,
   WHAT IS IVAN'S FAVORITE MOVIE?



Drum roll, please...............


The answer is: "Aguire, The Wrath of God" by German filmmaker Werner Herzog,
released in 1974.

(I have never seen it, have any of you?)

I'll talk to you again after my week in Wisconsin!!!  Au revoir!  :-)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hiram Lester, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: Logo Integrity
Date: 16 Aug 1997 12:07:32 -0500 (CDT)


On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Harding Jeff wrote:

> If any of you are 'real' MWH fans like myself, this should come as know
> surprise to you, but I wanted to bring it up for discussion purposes.
> While we all know what the MWH logo looks like, if you look closely at
> all the different 'iterations' of it, you'll notice that in many cases

Also, I've noticed that in some cases the logo is very square looking with
corners on the curves in the hat/ears, and other times it looks more
rounded...

   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
   | Hiram W. Lester, Jr.               | E-Mail: [e-mail]    |
   | Computer Science                   | Home page:                    |
   | Middle Tennessee State University  |   http://pobox.com/~hwlester/ |
   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) I am gone for a week
Date: 16 Aug 1997 12:40:48 +0000


Well i am taking off on vaction for a week. Just wanted to say bye
and the mp3 archive will still be up at www.holdman.com/mwh

Also I want to know what everyones feelings are about the mp3
archive (good or bad). There has been some concern about putting the
ROY and Folk of the 80s albums on the archive. As for myself I can
not buy these new releases since I live in the US. Does anybody know
where USA MWH fans can buy these through mail order?

See you all next week sometime.

-Rich


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Where am I?
Date: 16 Aug 1997 16:15:40 -0400 (EDT)


Lately, I've just been lurking.

Myke

P.S. Just in case you were wondering, like somebody else I know!

:-)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Woody Zenfell <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) mp3 page
Date: 16 Aug 1997 15:40:38 -0500 (CDT)


Ok, you asked :)

While I appreciate (much!) the desire to share the good Hats word with the
world, and I appreciate the resources that went into constructing the mp3
archive, I have to say I oppose much of its content:

Pop Goes the World is pretty readily available on CD still (in that, you
   can find it if you go to some lengths).
Same story with 21st Century.
As for the "Others", all of those are very readily available on Oglio's
   "Collection", the "Safety Dance UK Remix" CD and the Biodome CD.
   "Dance No More" is not even a MwoH track.
I very much oppose adding the "2fer" as well, as that disc is available
   (though admittedly it's a hassle for US'ers like myself to get).

I guess that leaves the tracks on the 3cd bootleg.  Those tracks were
carefully chosen not to overlap with anything otherwise available or
about to be available on CD anyway, so it's "more ok" to have those there.

As the 21st cen. book says, vote with your money!  Let's vote for those
who are still making the Hats works available to us on CD.

Just MHO.  Thanks for your work to help out the community!

Woody



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 16 Aug 1997 17:07:11 -0400 (EDT)


In a message dated 97-08-15 17:32:09 EDT, you write:

<< >
 > If any of you are 'real' MWH fans like myself, this should come as know
 > surprise to you, but I wanted to bring it up for discussion purposes.
 >
  >>

I guess a lot of us are 'fake' MWH fans. I would LOVE to ascend the ranks and
be a REAL one!

-Drew



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) mp3 archive
Date: 16 Aug 1997 18:08:46 -0400 (EDT)


I agree with Woody.

I have all the CDs already, which makes me an unlikely candidate for
going to the mp3 archive in the first place as it currently exists.

I would prefer especially that it not include the 2fer material.
I have not heard that it will absolutely not be available in the US.
And to include it now as part of the archives would pretty much be a
slap in Carl's face.

How about filling the archives with bootlegs that have no chance of ever
being released commercially?  That's the stuff that I'm looking for the
most these days.

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) pop goes the archive
Date: 16 Aug 1997 17:50:12 +0000


Thats true

I guess I will not put them on the archive.

As for the bootlegs I think it is great. I want to put every thing
that is rare and hard to get on the archive. So if anybody has anymore
stuff let me know. (anyone have any other "live" stuff?)

-Rich

> I would prefer especially that it not include the 2fer material. I
> have not heard that it will absolutely not be available in the US.
> And to include it now as part of the archives would pretty much be a
> slap in Carl's face.
>
> How about filling the archives with bootlegs that have no chance of
> ever being released commercially?  That's the stuff that I'm looking
> for the most these days.
>
> Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) mp3 page
Date: 16 Aug 1997 17:55:42 +0000


Ok - I will be taking everything off besides the 3 CD bootleg set I
guess. I would have to disagree with the 21st Cent being easy to get.
You can get the Pop goes the world 12inch (which is on the bootleg)
as easy as you can get 21st Century.

Who sings the song (and why is it there?) Dance no more that is on
the UK saftey dance single?

-Rich

> Pop Goes the World is pretty readily available on CD still (in that, you
>    can find it if you go to some lengths).
> Same story with 21st Century.
> As for the "Others", all of those are very readily available on Oglio's
>    "Collection", the "Safety Dance UK Remix" CD and the Biodome CD.
>    "Dance No More" is not even a MwoH track.
> I very much oppose adding the "2fer" as well, as that disc is available
>    (though admittedly it's a hassle for US'ers like myself to get).


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 16 Aug 1997 22:10:51 -0400 (EDT)



<< If any of you are 'real' MWH fans like myself, this should come as know
  > surprise to you, but I wanted to bring it up for discussion purposes. >>

Hey Big Dog,

Man! After all these years, I thought I was a "real" fan of Men Without Hats.
Thanks for opening my eyes and shedding some light on this situation. Let me
know what I have to do to become a "real" fan. Do I have to get off this list
now because I am just an "average" fan? Better go so I can start training for
#1 fan in the world. Bye!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 16 Aug 1997 20:42:58 -0600


[e-mail] wrote:

> << If any of you are 'real' MWH fans like myself, this should come as
> know
>   > surprise to you, but I wanted to bring it up for discussion
> purposes. >>
>
> Hey Big Dog,
>
> Man! After all these years, I thought I was a "real" fan of Men
> Without Hats.
> Thanks for opening my eyes

Personally I didn't get the impression that Jeff was being elitist in
any way.  I believe he was simply saying that fans who have collected
alot of MWH material are likely to have noticed a difference from one
logo to the next.  Don't be so picky people, or no one will venture to
say anything on this list!!!

btw,  I've noticed on the Canadian version of ROY there is a white line
along the brim of the derby. Is this true for the USA version?
Somebody?

Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Soderblom <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH (of course)
Date: 16 Aug 1997 23:05:02 -0700


Hey all,

Just a few thoughts that have come to mind recently.

1.If any of you are 'real' MWH fans like myself, this should come as
know
  > surprise to you, but I wanted to bring it up for discussion
purposes. >>
   I guess that I am not a "real" fan either.  MWH is only my favorite
band, I only have a MWH sticker on the back window of my car (thanks
Carl), I only wear my shirt constantly (thanks Laura), I only listen to
my albums constantly, I only look for MWH stuff EVERY time I am in the
record store, and I am only in the process of having a MWH neon sign
made for my room (at about a cost of $500).  I hope to do more in the
future to obtain the premier status of "real fan".

2.Has anyone else noticed that "Everybody's Selling Something" on 21st
Century has the worst fade out in the distinguished history of recorded
music???

3.Reminder: I know that there are more MWH sites out there.  If you know
of any not on my page http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom please let me
know.

later
-Eric


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Brady" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) mp3 archive
Date: 17 Aug 1997 00:06:40 -0800


>And to include it now as part of the archives would pretty much be a
>slap in Carl's face.
>

Actually, I'd think it would be more of a WAKE UP slap for the record label
who owns the North Amercican distribution rights.

Still, I'd keep those songs off the archive while Carl is in active
negotiations with the record label in question.  Assuming, of course, that
there are actually active negotiations at this time!  When Carl gives up
please feel free to repost 'em.

Life is getting shorter...






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan makes no money from MWH recordings
Date: 17 Aug 1997 14:25:07 -0600


That's right!! Not one red cent and we all know it!

Here are some reasons why I say this.

1)  to quote Ivan:  "With the entire profits of Rythm of Youth, I
managed to buy myself a 10-speed bicycle"

2)  Ivan ran into serious dissagreements with his contract for both ROY
and FOTE III which lead to Ivan and company being ripped off big time.

3) On this list, Thomas Bieler once posed the question :"To what extend
ARE Ivan and the band benefitting from Collection, the ROY/Folk 2fer?"
The silence coming from Carl was rather deafening!!

4) It's been 9 years since any MWH song charted anywhere. Let's face it,
MWH is not a big seller anymore.

If anybody has evidence to the contrary, please let me know, I would be
glad to hear it.

Senz





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jkriens <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) My $.02 on the mp3 page
Date: 17 Aug 1997 01:19:28 -0400


I think that the archive should contain anything that is not currently in
print (domestic or otherwise).  Things that are in print can somehow be
ordered and obtained and actively put money into the pocket of MWH and
Ivan (and associated others like their label, mgmt., etc.).

If something is out of print, yeah, you can still find copies of it
floating around, but being able to find it revolves somewhat on luck, and
the money that the artists make on the work has already gotten back to
them (or so I'm lead to believe--correct me if I'm wrong).  I know if I
can find the material I will pick it up, but if I can't find an actual
physical copy, I would at least like to find out what it sounds like.

This said, I think that the sorts of things that ought to be on there are
the 3 CD bootleg set, any tracks from singles that are out of print
(there are a couple more tracks from the PGtW singles that didn't make it
onto the bootlegs, for example), and any other
live/unreleased/rare/whatever material.

I don't know what's currently in print, but I assume it includes all of
the full-length albums: RoY, FotEIII, PGtW, 20thC, Sideways, and the
Spell.  I would assume that the only singles that are still in print are
any off of the Spell.

Anyway, I've got a request, too.  Does anyone have the facilities to make
an mpeg or Quicktime movie of Pop Goes the World from the Video CD
single?  That would be a nice addition to the archive.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

-John


[e-mail]
"If I'm going to lose, I'm not going to lose by losing." -Matt Hiner


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) MP3 & Albums in Print
Date: 18 Aug 1997 10:22:31 +0100


  Hi,

  I'm from the UK and 3 weeks ago set out to get hold of all the MWH albums
  I could on CD.

  I can confirm that original ROY/FOT80's are no longer in print and can
  only be obtained from Oglio to European customers.  They are still working
  on a US deal.

  I did mange to order and obtain Pop Goes The World, 21st Century and
  Sideways all on CD through standard ordering from HMV.  These titles are
  all in still in print and can be ordered from ANY HMW on import. (In fact,
  Pop was cheaper on import than current chart CDs!)

  One thing I would like to see on MP3, however, is 12" remixes such as Pop
  Goes The World.  Most of these single releases are no longer in print and
  the chances of finding an old copy over here are very remote!

  Anyway, thanks for everything so far.

  Dave.
  --



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harding Jeff <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 18 Aug 1997 07:37:10 -0400


Senz,

Thanks for the words of support pal....you hit the nail right on the
head. I was just reaching out to
all those fans out there to get their insight on the logo issue. I don't
claim to be a 'bigger' Hats
fan than anybody else! We're ALL in the same boat, gang!!!

Thanks again, Senz...

BigDog


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas Bieler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 18 Aug 1997 15:20:11 +0200 (MET DST)


> btw,  I've noticed on the Canadian version of ROY there is a white line
> along the brim of the derby. Is this true for the USA version?
> Somebody?
I guess you're talking about Greatest Hats, not ROY. No, Collection, i.e.
'the USA version', doesn't have it. Proves to me that the artwork has been
redone for Greatest Hats, yet they were too dumb to think of something
different from Carl's design...  There are also a lot of other tiny
differences, btw.

Thomas


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Oglio Entertainment <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Ivan makes no money from MWH recordings
Date: 18 Aug 1997 08:11:08 -0700


> 3) On this list, Thomas Bieler once posed the question :"To what extend
> ARE Ivan and the band benefitting from Collection, the ROY/Folk 2fer?"
> The silence coming from Carl was rather deafening!!

Oglio licensed the tracks from the legal owners of the masters. It is
the obligation of the owners to remit payment to the artist if that is
called for in the agreement between the artist and the owner of the
masters.

The silence was probably deafening because I didn't see the original
post. :-)

Carl
Oglio


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alison Kogan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH icons
Date: 18 Aug 1997 15:14:29 +0000


Hi.. For anyone who's interested, I just made some windows icons of
MWH album covers. You can download them from
http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~akogan1  .They're all 256 color icons, so you
might need to have microsoft plus for them to look right.

Alison


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Fwd: I'm looking for some boots
Date: 18 Aug 1997 21:03:05 -0400 (EDT)



---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj:    I'm looking for some boots

Hello Hatters-

Has anyone had contact with Todd about the boots he is making.  I know it is
a time consuming process, so I dont want piss him off too much, I just
wondered if anyone knew what the status was.  Thanks.

[e-mail]
"I got arrested at the mardi gras for jumpin on a float..."


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Ivan makes no money from MWH recordings
Date: 18 Aug 1997 22:48:05 -0600


> > 3) On this list, Thomas Bieler once posed the question :"To what
> extend
> > ARE Ivan and the band benefitting from Collection, the ROY/Folk
> 2fer?"
> > The silence coming from Carl was rather deafening!!
>
> Oglio licensed the tracks from the legal owners of the masters. It is
> the obligation of the owners to remit payment to the artist if that is
>
> called for in the agreement between the artist and the owner of the
> masters.
>
> The silence was probably deafening because I didn't see the original
> post. :-)
>
> Carl

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Carl.  It doesn't make me feel much
better about the situation but at least I know it's not within your
power to direct funds to Ivan.  The contract between the owners and Ivan
is a confidential thing, I suppose, but half of me would like to know
the details while the other half is saying "you probably don't want to
know!!!"

Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 18 Aug 1997 23:29:27 -0600


> > btw,  I've noticed on the Canadian version of ROY there is a white
> line
> > along the brim of the derby. Is this true for the USA version?
> > Somebody?
> I guess you're talking about Greatest Hats, not ROY. No, Collection,
> i.e.
> 'the USA version', doesn't have it. Proves to me that the artwork has
> been
> redone for Greatest Hats, yet they were too dumb to think of something
>
> different from Carl's design...  There are also a lot of other tiny
> differences, btw.
>
> Thomas

Hey, I never noticed that before and yet I own both "Greatest Hats" and
"Collection"!!

However, my ROY does have a white line along the brim!  It seems that
there is a deliberate attempt to give Canadian versions a white line but
not American versions.  In fact, (as I open my safe and pull out my
unopened copy of......(drumroll)) ...THE FOTE EP,  I see that it also
has a white line.  ;-)

Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Soderblom <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan's $$$
Date: 19 Aug 1997 00:45:40 -0700


This whole thing about Ivan getting "screwed" on the royalties of the
albums sounds familiar.  My friend (who is in the 'biz') once told me a
story about Patty Smythe (sang w/Scandal).  Apparently she got screwed
royally and owed Columbia Records hundreds of thousands of $$$.  After
they charged her for studio time, videos, etc....she ended up owing
them.  Bummer.  Sorry Ivan :-(

-Eric

If everyone who reads this chips in $1.00, we could have like $15 to
send Ivan!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Ivan's $$$
Date: 19 Aug 1997 11:46:33 -0600


> This whole thing about Ivan getting "screwed" on the royalties of the
> albums sounds familiar.



> -Eric
>
> If everyone who reads this chips in $1.00, we could have like $15 to
> send Ivan!
>

Nice idea but where would we send the 15$?  Ivan's not going to appear
on this list and give us an address!  (That would be like him asking for
money.)  And if anybody else gave us an address, well....count me out on
that!!

But if there was a way to be 100% sure it would get to Ivan, I'm sure
we'd be more thankful than 15$ worth.  Oh well, too bad, so sad, that's
life I guess!  (Something's not right when the fans can't support the
artist, financially.)

Maybe Ivan should become a busker.  He might make more money that way!

Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Donald Stroud <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) INFO NEEDED: CD-R
Date: 19 Aug 1997 10:45:53 -0700 (PDT)


For those of you who made the MWH boots, or are familiar with the
technology/equipment involved, I would like your advice.

I just got my PC, and one of my goals is to make compilation CDs that I can
enjoy in my car. What's the best hardware and software for something like
this?

Please respond to my personal e-mail, so as not to clog the mailing list.

Thanks in advance!

ObMWH:
    Has there been any word of a commercially-available "Open Your Eyes"
    single in Canada yet?

Don2
[e-mail]




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 19 Aug 1997 13:51:22 -0500 (CDT)


Alright Senz, now listen to me very carefully... I'm going to count to three
and for reasons unknown to you, you will start getting very
sleepy...ok...now, put the FOTE in a mailing envelope and send it to ME!!!!!
ha ha! Send me a picture you lucky dog you! Where on earth did you find one.
Now you're not talking about the same album thats on the 2 for 1 are you?
I'd cream to own a copy of the "original EP" with "security" and the full
"ban the game" , actually I forgot whats on the thing, what is on it? By the
way, I feel exactly the same as you about this "Ivan" ripoff! It's plan
criminal! But we have Marc Durand to thank for that.-Will
>

>not American versions.  In fact, (as I open my safe and pull out my
>unopened copy of......(drumroll)) ...THE FOTE EP,  I see that it also
>has a white line.  ;-)
>
>Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 19 Aug 1997 18:19:20 -0600


> Alright Senz, now listen to me very carefully... I'm going to count to
> three
> and for reasons unknown to you, you will start getting very
> sleepy...ok...now, put the FOTE in a mailing envelope and send it to
> ME!!!!!
>

Ok, what's your mailing address?

Hey, wait a second!!!  It's mine!!
Nice try Will.  :)

Senz


btw, Ivan, if your listening, I offer you $100 (Can) for a copy of the
ROY demos or other old and unreleased material.  Furthermore I will
offer you $1000 for a new MWH album done in the style and quality of
either ROY or PGTW.  I'm not kidding!!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Senz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Lack of Integrity
Date: 19 Aug 1997 21:27:14 -0600


Senz wrote:

>Furthermore I will
>offer you $1000 for a new MWH album done in the style and quality of
>either ROY or PGTW.  I'm not kidding!!

Whoa!!  Did I just bribe Ivan?  What was I thinking!   (It must have
been the hypnosis.)  I was just trying to say I agree with Thomas that
we should reward Ivan for his work.  So,  Ivan, continue with your art
as you see fit and don't let my $1000 influence any direction in style.
However, if you are interested in continuing the style of ROY but aren't
doing it because there's no money in it, THEN consider what people like
myself would pay for such a thing!!

Senz



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Soderblom <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) VH-1
Date: 19 Aug 1997 22:36:06 -0700


Fellow Hatters-

Q.  What does it take to watch VH-1 for 8 days straight???
A.  8 days of 80's videos.

I have been waiting for any MWH videos.  I suppose that "Safety Dance"
will be on, but I am not expecting anything else :-(  Will keep you
posted.

-Eric


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) good idea
Date: 20 Aug 1997 07:16:13 -0400





>>> This whole thing about Ivan getting "screwed" on the royalties of the
>>> albums sounds familiar.
>>
>>
>>
>>> -Eric
>>>
>>> If everyone who reads this chips in $1.00, we could have like $15 to
>>> send Ivan!
>>>
>>
>>Nice idea but where would we send the 15$?  Ivan's not going to appear
>>on this list and give us an address!  (That would be like him asking for
>>money.)  And if anybody else gave us an address, well....count me out on
>>that!!
>>
>>But if there was a way to be 100% sure it would get to Ivan, I'm sure
>>we'd be more thankful than 15$ worth.  Oh well, too bad, so sad, that's
>>life I guess!  (Something's not right when the fans can't support the
>>artist, financially.)
>>
>>Maybe Ivan should become a busker.  He might make more money that way!
>>
>>Senz
>
>This is a good idea.  In fact I had this very idea the other day.  I disagree.  I
>don't think that this would be like giving Ivan money, its his music isn't it?
If
>we did anymore of this fan produced type stuff, then we should send them a little
>profit somehow.   IF we were all willing to do this, then I bet IVAN & band would
>start sending us some real good contributions -- like the ROY demos for example.   I
>think we just need to show them that we are on THEIR side.
>     Of course,   the only thing that would be better than this would be official
>releases of all the unreleased stuff on their own label.    Colin himself told me
>that he would like to see EVERYTHING that is unreleased to GET to us fans one way or
>the other, eventually.   He told me himself that they could possibly do a bunch of
>"limited edition" stuff for us on the list and other diehard fans.
>     Now lets say that IVAN & band cannot find a way to get this stuff officially
>released.   Then wouldn't it be great if they could send us copies for more fan
>stuff!   Wouldn't IVAN be the ultimate fan contributer?   How can we convince him
>that we are trustworthy fans and that we ARE on his side?  Well the answer is to mak
e
>sure some profit gets to HIM after the fan produced stuff is made.   We all know
that
>IVAN and HUGO sneak a peek on here once in a while.
>And I know from Colin that they DO want us to hear some of the rarer stuff.   We
just
>need some support for this, I think
>           This is a longshot.    But what if we all agree to send him some money
for
>this rare stuff?   It would be just like buying a CD, but instead of MCA or someone
>getting all the profit the BAND will for just once.   perfect.
>
>"I agree"  -- Tom
>
>Tom
>[e-mail]






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) he is rewarded! :)
Date: 20 Aug 1997 10:37:25 -0400



>been the hypnosis.)  I was just trying to say I agree with Thomas that
>we should reward Ivan for his work.  So,  Ivan, continue with your art

I think we already did :)  We all collect his recordings, go on this mailing
list, AAAAAAND made a few bootlegs (videos, Cds, shirts, stickers, phone
cards, web sites (ok web sites aren't bootlegs), etc). Remember how Dr.
Laura told us about his face ligthing up when he held up one of the bootleg
CDs and proudly exclaimed, "My FANS made THESE!"?  :)


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Not enough to proceed.
Date: 20 Aug 1997 23:43:08 -0400 (EDT)


Hey gang!

As you know, the minimum order to proceed with the stickers is 5000.  We are
at 3800 so far.

Those of you who put 100, may be you could help us and put some more.?!?!?


Ok, I won't bother you again with those stickers, I just tried to make a lot
of you happy.

Thanks fans!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Video cassette
Date: 21 Aug 1997 18:25:17 -0400 (EDT)


Hey hatters.

To whom who send me the video cassette waiting the ivan's performance.
 Everything is in the mail since 2 weeks now.  PLease advise me if you did
not receive your video cassette

Ciao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Open your eyes - Remix
Date: 21 Aug 1997 18:27:01 -0400 (EDT)


Yesterday I went to 3 very good music store in montreal.

The "open your eyes" remix is not available to the public, just for
discotheque or club.

If anyone put the hand on it, please let me know!!!!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeff Fugate" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Sign me up!
Date: 21 Aug 1997 19:54:11 PDT


Someone please send me info on how to get on the list!  I'm desperate!
I've got a connection that got me the T-shiirts and went to see
Ivan(remember Dave?), but I want in!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude Berthiaume <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) ROY
Date: 21 Aug 1997 11:14:53 -0400


Anyone is looking for the ROY cassette?? I found a place thru the net where u can have it for 5.95$


Simon


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vince Silvaggio <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Of Stickers and Encouragement
Date: 21 Aug 1997 18:46:36 -0400


Hey Hatters!  I know I'm gonna regret this...but I'm going to double
(shudder) my sticker command to 600 stickers.  Yes, 600.  I don't need 600
stickers.  All my possessions put together don't have enough surface area to
accomodate 600 stickers, but...

But I feel I have to encourage Francis and what he's been trying to do for
us.  And I feel I have to encourage the rest of you who, in the future,
might want to offer the list something special as well.  So, 600.  Now,
who's gonna raise?

Til next time
Vince


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Congrats to Anthonetta!
Date: 22 Aug 1997 13:16:03 +0000


Hi Hatters!

I just received word from a co-worker of Anthonetta Nel that she and
her husband are now proud parents of a beautiful baby girl.  Look
what you started, Francis!

Er, what was that?  I can't hear you - my biological clock was
ticking loudly . . .

;-) Laura


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: * <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) hey papa francis
Date: 22 Aug 1997 17:29:55 +0000


hey francis- sorry we didnt link up in montreal- Ill be back next month
!

wolf

PS  raise me 100 on the stickers !


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers ride back!!!!!!!!!
Date: 22 Aug 1997 22:18:03 -0400 (EDT)


Thanks to Vince, we are at 4200 stickers, 800 to go!!!!!

The price will be 10$ Canadian, 8 $ U.s. Fund.
Shipping: 3$

I will contact you personnally via E-mail if we proceed.

Thanks

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers list
Date: 22 Aug 1997 22:19:37 -0400 (EDT)


Here is the list.



Francis                          600                 [e-mail]
tom norman                300
Rod                           100                 [e-mail]
Jeff                            200                 [e-mail]
(Harding Jeff)
Dave Krupla               300                 ElKrupla
wolfgang                    100                 [e-mail]
Simon                        200                 [e-mail]
Jeff                            100                 [e-mail]
vince                          600
                [e-mail]
frank                          100                 [e-mail]
Eric soderblom           100                 [e-mail] (Eric W.
Soderblom)
Gregor                       100                 [e-mail]
(Gregor Watson)
Jeff                            100                 [e-mail]
(Harding Jeff)
Laura                         300                 [e-mail]
Trena                         100                [e-mail]
(Trena Brantley)
Richard Holdman        100                 [e-mail] (Richard
Holdman)
Jon Stanley                100                 [e-mail] (Jon
Stanley)
Senz                          100                 [e-mail] (Steven
Enz)
Woody Zenfell             100                 [e-mail]
(Woody Zenfell)
Myke                         200                 [e-mail] (LORD
HASENPFEFFER)
Angie                         100                 [e-mail]
(Angela Tooley)
Christopher Frey         100                 [e-mail] (Christopher
Edward Frey)
Bill Perrin                   100                 [e-mail] (William G.
Perrin III)

TOTAL                  4 2 0 0




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Shipping!
Date: 22 Aug 1997 22:20:27 -0400 (EDT)


Sorry, It's me again!!!!

For the stickers shipping, I have to get back to you because of the different
country.

Let's get the 5000 first!!!

Ciao!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) 800....799..798......797.......796..........795........794
Date: 23 Aug 1997 13:24:56 -0400 (EDT)


Thanks to Wolfgang to raise is order.

700 to go!!!!!

Francis

P.s. I have a good feeling that we will do it!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Tooley <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Ivan Rewarded for His Work
Date: 22 Aug 1997 18:59:25 -0700


I know a lot of you are concerned about Ivan receiving compensation for
his work.  However, rather than going through all the hassle and legal
wrangles of sending him royalties from the sales of bootleg cassettes,
CD's and videotapes some of you have made, why don't we just do this:
pick a place, set a date, and hire him to do a show just for the members
of this mailing list who are willing to pitch in for the fee.
Ivan would probably be responsive to such a scenario.  We could find out
the figure he would require to do a solo show or a two-man show,
possibly
him and Hugo or Colin.  Some of the members of this list who live in
Montreal might know someone who owns a club or has a hall which we could
rent at a reduced rate, or maybe they'll donate it for our cause.  Each
person who is interested in attending could donate maybe $50 to $100 per
person and all the proceeds would go directly to Ivan. It would be a
private show for members of this mailing list only.  Ivan doesn't seem
to
actually be "on tour" at the time being and this fall or winter he might
not be booked up solid, so there's a good chance he would do a date for
us in or around Montreal sometime toward the end of the year, or
sometime
next spring.
Ivan appreciates his fans more than any other artist I've known, and he
would probably enjoy doing a show for a small but extremely enthusiastic
group of fans like us.
When I went to see the band in Providence in 1988, there were about 200
people in attendance and each person paid $9 a ticket.  The band made
$1800 that night from ticket sales, and I'm not sure if they received
any other compensation from the record company that night besides the
tour support they received at the beginning of the tour. Let's say they
got half the money from the ticket sales. $900 divided by 5 band members
is about $180 apiece for that show.  Now, if we got only 25 people from
this list who were willing to pitch in $100 for the show, the one or two
man band gets $2500.
Not bad for a couple hours' work, even split two ways.
I think it would be a gig Ivan might really enjoy.  We could show our
support and appreciation for his artistry by donating $50 or $100 and
probably get the best show
we have ever seen because it would be an intimate atmosphere.  We would
enjoy it even
if he played and sang acoustically, with just a piano, guitar, and
vocals over a P.A.
system.  It wouldn't have to be a big deal including all concert lights
and gimmicks and
a humongous sound system. It would just be a small show, for us.
Please give me some feedback on this! It is not an impossible thing to
do.
Bye for now,     Angie


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Tooley <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MY PREVIOUS POSTING
Date: 23 Aug 1997 19:31:26 -0700


For all of you who are wondering who Michael Tooley is, that's my
father, and I'm using his PC here in Wisconsin. If anyone has sent me
personal e-mail in the past week, I will be home tomorrow and will
respond Monday or Tuesday to you.  Please do not direct e-mail for me at
[e-mail].  Instead send it to my own e-mail address which is
                   [e-mail]
              Love to all,    Angie



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) I am back
Date: 25 Aug 1997 09:07:09 +0000


Hello all - I am back from vacation.

It was nice to read all the email that has collected up over the past
week. I would not mind adding videos to the archive. Space is not a
problem at all.

Thanks to Dave Mattingly for sending the Chinese Detectives doing
Where do the boys go? - It will be up on the archive tommorow.

If anybody else has any rare MWH let me know and I will put it up on
the archive located at http://www.holdman.com/mwh

-Rich


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Adam J Weitzman <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Men Without Lounge Hats
Date: 25 Aug 1997 11:21:39 -0400


I heard on the radio that there's a band calling themselves B. James and
the Royal Jelly Orchestra (or something bizarre like that) releasing an
album soon of cocktail-style lounge covers of popular songs.  One of the
songs on the album will be "The Safety Dance."

Approach at your own risk.

-- Adam J Weitzman -- Individual, Inc. -- http://www.individual.com --
     "I'm writing an unathorized autobiography." - Steven Wright




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lazlo Nibble" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Men Without Lounge Hats
Date: 25 Aug 1997 10:22:44 -0600 (MDT)


> I heard on the radio that there's a band calling themselves B. James and
> the Royal Jelly Orchestra (or something bizarre like that) releasing an
> album soon of cocktail-style lounge covers of popular songs.  One of the
> songs on the album will be "The Safety Dance."
>
> Approach at your own risk.

That's "Jaymz Bee", sometime sidekick to Yello cofounder Carlos Peron...which
says to me: approach at no risk whatsoever!

--
::: Lazlo ([e-mail]; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 25 Aug 1997 13:12:11 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, all, Angie here.  A few days ago I placed a posting regarding the members
of this list organizing a private concert featuring Ivan, just for members of
this list.  This is something that I am 99% positive can be arranged.  I would
like feedback from all members of the list who would be interested in putting
forth the effort to travel to Montreal and see the show.  Here are some of the
questions I would like you to answer:

*How many of you would be interested in attending?
*Do you all think $100 per ticket is a reasonable amount? Or too expensive, even
for a private show?
*What time of year would you like to see this show?  Next spring? Next summer?
*Does anyone on this list who lives in Montreal know anyone who has a club or
large hall or anyplace else suitable for a concert?  Do you know where we can re(rent) one, and at what cost?
*What does everyone think about all the proceeds, maybe minus the cost of the
hall rental, going directly to Ivan & the bandmember(s) as our appreciation for
his music and our outrage over the royalties he is not receiving from sales
and airplay of his biggest selling album?

Let's all work together and make it happen. I am not kidding about this - it
is an attainable goal and not hard to do. As I have said before, Ivan would be
responsive and possibly enthusiastic about playing for a group of fans who have
stuck by him through the years. Plus the money would be a good incentive, too.

E-mail me with your responses at [e-mail]   and I will tally up
everyone's thoughts and proceed from there. As far as I am concerned, if we had
25 people from this list who would commit to such a show at a cost of $100 per
donation, it would only be a matter of setting the date.




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 25 Aug 1997 15:36:29 +0000


I would be willing to do it - I would like to bring my spouse though
and $200 would be a little steep for both of us (she is not as big as
a MWH fan as I am) I would say $100 per person or $125 for a person
and their spouse. Two people would not be able to team up together
for the $125 it would only be for the MWH fan and their spouse :)

Maybe I am crazy :)

As far as when it would be I dont really care as long as it was not
in the dead of winter (I am from UTAH) Sometime in early spring would
be good.

-Rich

> E-mail me with your responses at [e-mail]   and I will tally up
> everyone's thoughts and proceed from there. As far as I am concerned, if we had
> 25 people from this list who would commit to such a show at a cost of $100 per
> donation, it would only be a matter of setting the date.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Eric Soderblom <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Miscellaneous t
Date: 25 Aug 1997 14:41:58 -0700


Hey all,
A couple of things:

A)  Thanks to those who continue to send me URL's for my MWH site index.
In case you forgot it, it's at http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom .

B)  In response to Angie's E-Mail...I LOVE MWH more than anyone not
involved with this list can fathom, BUT....as much as I would love to
see Ivan I don't think I am prepared to fly from California to Montreal,
book a hotel for 2 nights (at least), and pay $100 to see the show.  It
is unfortunate that this is such a vast country and that we are all so
spread out.  Maybe we should think about holding it in Kansas which is
more centrally located.

C)  I would be very interested in anyones stories about reaction to
wearing their Hats T's in public.  I have personally got some
interesting reactions.

D)  In response to someone finding ROY tape on the net for $5.99.  Those
tapes are a dime a dozen (well, almost).  I ordered 3 at $3.49 each new
off the net.

E)  is for Eric W. Soderblom....L8R!!!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 25 Aug 1997 20:42:18 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everyone, Angie again.  So far today I have received lots of responses
to my concert proposal.  We now have six people, including me, who are
interested in attending.  For me to go ahead and make the arrangements, I
want to present Ivan with a promise for AT LEAST the money he would make
if AT LEAST 25 people were willing to give $100 to attend, minus the fee
for the hall rental. (We will rent the hall at a reduced rate if at all
possible. If not, we'll hunt around for the best site for the least money.)
If 19 more of you e-mail me and express your enthusiasm and support for this
members-only show, I will be able to present the proposal to Ivan and see
if he will agree to do it.

If anyone has any input or concerns, do not hesitate to e-mail me or put up
a list posting.  I tell you again: this is an attainable goal and it will
happen if you want it to!! All the proceeds will go directly to Ivan and
the band.  We will make an arrangement whereby list members will write
money orders payable to whomever Ivan wants them to be written out.

I have received some suggestions that list members who would like to attend the
show with their non-member spouses should be allowed a member/spouse fee of
$125 or $150 for the two people together.  This sounds fair to me.  Only members
and their non-member spouses would be allowed the discounted rate; two list
members together would be ineligible for this rate.  What do the rest of you
think?

Remember, this is a show from which no one will profit financially except
Ivan and the bandmember(s), who have gotten screwed out of many deserved
royalties over the years.  Let me repeat that.  No one will profit except
Ivan & crew, who deserve it.

Come on, let's show our support and appreciation to one who has given us all
so much happiness over the years!

Feedback, please!!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 25 Aug 1997 21:27:07 -0400


 >I have received some suggestions that list members who would like to attend the
>show with their non-member spouses should be allowed a member/spouse fee of
>$125 or $150 for the two people together.  This sounds fair to me.  Only members
>and their non-member spouses would be allowed the discounted rate; two list
>members together would be ineligible for this rate.  What do the rest of you
>think?

If this is possible, then of course count me in too!!!
Ivan are you reading this message????   Do you think this is a great idea?
:-)

Tom
[e-mail]







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bradley N. Hull" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) IVAN Concert
Date: 25 Aug 1997 22:48:42 -0400


I have let Angela know of my GREAT desire to be part of this.

Here's some food for thought.....what are the chances (if everything goes=

through, of course) that Ivan would ask the List for input on the songs t=
o
be played????

Maybe the 15 song dream concert isn't such a far-fetched idea after all!!=
! =

8-)

This whole idea is just TOO COOL!!!!

Later, Taters
Brad


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) RE: Men Without Lounge Hats
Date: 25 Aug 1997 23:18:45 -0500


Actually, I have heard this version [the lounge version of Safety
Dance].  If you're into cheese, it is very good; otherwise, approach
with a grain of salt!

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Ivan Concert
Date: 25 Aug 1997 23:32:21 -0500


A central location would be wonderful (especially for me), but I think
we need to remember the reason why we would be arranging such a thing.
If we were to say to Ivan:  "Hey, we want to reward you for the
royalties we have stolen from you",  I am sure he would say, "Yes."  If
we were to then follow that up with a, "But you have to travel to X
location to get it", he probably wouldn't be as receptive to the idea.
As to the ticket cost, well, a reasonable price would depend on the
number of people willing to go and, of course, the price Ivan would set
for his services. . .

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Bradley's dream concert
Date: 25 Aug 1997 23:39:50 -0500


Just 15 songs?  You're not trying!!  :)

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 26 Aug 1997 00:14:17 -0700


Hello.

Speaking of which, I have a few questions.

Obviously Greatest Hats is almost the same as Collection.  Collection has
artwork credits, and GH doesn't.  Did they (Aquarius Canada) pay Oglio for
the artwork.  Was it Oglio who did the artwork in the first place?  Did
they in fact steal the design?  If they did, that could explain the slight
difference in the logo, because it would then not be copyrighted.

I also find it odd that Aquarius would licence this material, since mwh
were never on that label, even in Canada. (the Oglio label makes perfect
sense btw)

Also, why the differences in tracks.  Does anyone know.  I believe
Collection came out first (am I wrong) and was it the basis for GH, or was
it the other way around.  Or where they concurrent projects (this seems
unlikely given the obvious similarities.)  How could the Canadian version
omit Moonbeam and Hey Men, two of their (I believe) biggest hats...  er,
hits.  I assume Collection omitted Freeways because it is mostly in French
but I am guessing.

And, why is the essay inside different.  The Canadian one has notes by Marc
Durand (mwh producer) and the US version has notes by Brett Atwood of
Billboard. Why one and not the other?

I guess today I have more questions than answers...

Rod
Los Angeles

(waiting for my M+M compilation Carl...  :-)



>> btw,  I've noticed on the Canadian version of ROY there is a white line
>> along the brim of the derby. Is this true for the USA version?
>> Somebody?
>I guess you're talking about Greatest Hats, not ROY. No, Collection, i.e.
>'the USA version', doesn't have it. Proves to me that the artwork has been
>redone for Greatest Hats, yet they were too dumb to think of something
>different from Carl's design...  There are also a lot of other tiny
>differences, btw.
>
>Thomas
>
>




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) Ivan makes no money from MWH recordings
Date: 26 Aug 1997 00:15:03 -0700


Hello again.

I am sure Ivan would be quite offended if we sent him money, as if he were
a vagrant or charity case.

The best way to support an artist is to buy their records.  Is Tox owned by
Ivan and company?  Even if it isn't, the best way to support Ivan is to buy
his cd.  Buy more and send them to your friends - it's a great record and
they will love it, don't you think?  For every sale he will get a certain
amount of money.  Plus any increase in sales will obviously support his
career, with touring, videos, and studio time for his next album.   Since
we don't know what if any money he is receiving from Greatest Hats/
Collection/ 2fer the most direct channel to Ivan is The Spell, and
attending his concerts (for the lucky) and buying his merchandise (t-shirts
or whatever they might sell there).  Merchandising is where artists make
money, because there is less of a middle man than with recordings (ie more
of a profit margin that goes directly into the artists hands - hopefully).


It's like when you go to the movies.  Usually abut 80% of the $7.50 you pay
to get in goes to the movies studio (not the theatre).  The theatre only
makes money to cover its rent, staff and other operating costs when you
shell out $5 for the bucket of popcorn, or $3.50 for a soda, which
literally costs them about 75c.  That's how they stay in business.

I would be very excited about Ivan putting his older material out on his
own label.  Did the people who discussed this with him feel that he thought
that this was a real possibility.  Or does someone else own the rights
(which is quite common).

Bye for now,

Rod
Los Angeles




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) Ivan makes no money from MWH recordings
Date: 25 Aug 1997 11:12:08 -0700


Hello again.

I am sure Ivan would be quite offended if we sent him money, as if he were
a vagrant or charity case.

The best way to support an artist is to buy their records.  Is Tox owned by
Ivan and company?  Even if it isn't, the best way to support Ivan is to buy
his cd.  Buy more and send them to your friends - it's a great record and
they will love it, don't you think?  For every sale he will get a certain
amount of money.  Plus any increase in sales will obviously support his
career, with touring, videos, and studio time for his next album.   Since
we don't know what if any money he is receiving from Greatest Hats/
Collection/ 2fer the most direct channel to Ivan is The Spell, and
attending his concerts (for the lucky) and buying his merchandise (t-shirts
or whatever they might sell there).  Merchandising is where artists make
money, because there is less of a middle man than with recordings (ie more
of a profit margin that goes directly into the artists hands - hopefully).


It's like when you go to the movies.  Usually abut 80% of the $7.50 you pay
to get in goes to the movies studio (not the theatre).  The theatre only
makes money to cover its rent, staff and other operating costs when you
shell out $5 for the bucket of popcorn, or $3.50 for a soda, which
literally costs them about 75c.  That's how they stay in business.

I would be very excited about Ivan putting his older material out on his
own label.  Did the people who discussed this with him feel that he thought
that this was a real possibility.  Or does someone else own the rights
(which is quite common).

Bye for now,

Rod
Los Angeles


>> 3) On this list, Thomas Bieler once posed the question :"To what extend
>> ARE Ivan and the band benefitting from Collection, the ROY/Folk 2fer?"
>> The silence coming from Carl was rather deafening!!
>
>Oglio licensed the tracks from the legal owners of the masters. It is
>the obligation of the owners to remit payment to the artist if that is
>called for in the agreement between the artist and the owner of the
>masters.
>
>The silence was probably deafening because I didn't see the original
>post. :-)
>
>Carl
>Oglio
>




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 25 Aug 1997 11:12:05 -0700


Hello.

Speaking of which, I have a few questions.

Obviously Greatest Hats is almost the same as Collection.  Collection has
artwork credits, and GH doesn't.  Did they (Aquarius Canada) pay Oglio for
the artwork.  Was it Oglio who did the artwork in the first place?  Did
they in fact steal the design?  If they did, that could explain the slight
difference in the logo, because it would then not be copyrighted.

I also find it odd that Aquarius would licence this material, since mwh
were never on that label, even in Canada. (the Oglio label makes perfect
sense btw)

Also, why the differences in tracks.  Does anyone know.  I believe
Collection came out first (am I wrong) and was it the basis for GH, or was
it the other way around.  Or where they concurrent projects (this seems
unlikely given the obvious similarities.)  How could the Canadian version
omit Moonbeam and Hey Men, two of their (I believe) biggest hats...  er,
hits.  I assume Collection omitted Freeways because it is mostly in French
but I am guessing.

And, why is the essay inside different.  The Canadian one has notes by Marc
Durand (mwh producer) and the US version has notes by Brett Atwood of
Billboard. Why one and not the other?

I guess today I have more questions than answers...

Rod
Los Angeles

(waiting for my M+M compilation Carl...  :-)



>> btw,  I've noticed on the Canadian version of ROY there is a white line
>> along the brim of the derby. Is this true for the USA version?
>> Somebody?
>I guess you're talking about Greatest Hats, not ROY. No, Collection, i.e.
>'the USA version', doesn't have it. Proves to me that the artwork has been
>redone for Greatest Hats, yet they were too dumb to think of something
>different from Carl's design...  There are also a lot of other tiny
>differences, btw.
>
>Thomas
>
>




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Ivan makes no money from MWH recordings
Date: 26 Aug 1997 07:26:45 -0400


>I would be very excited about Ivan putting his older material out on his
>own label.  Did the people who discussed this with him feel that he thought
>that this was a real possibility.  Or does someone else own the rights
>(which is quite common).

Well,
Both Ivan and Colin (on seperate occations) stated that not only is it a real
possibility, but they said It will happen.
In fact, it sounded like all their old record label problems were now over, instantly
erased now that they have their own label.    You have to understand, they were both
very confident and happy about this.     I just hope it really happens and their are
no more obstacles in the way.   I, myself, am prepared to order mucho import CDs from
Canada when ALL these CDs get rereleased ...... eh?
Tom
[e-mail]






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Mattingly <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) T Story
Date: 26 Aug 1997 07:36:44 -0400


I wore my T-shirt this weekend, and when my mom saw it, she asked "What
are you against?"

Dave Mattingly




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alex <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 26 Aug 1997 09:38:24 -0500 (CDT)


> Also, why the differences in tracks.  Does anyone know.
My guess is as follows:

Hey Men wasn't a hit here in Canada.  Freeways was.  Makes sense to put
songs on that people will remember.

> And, why is the essay inside different.  The Canadian one has notes by Marc
> Durand (mwh producer) and the US version has notes by Brett Atwood of
> Billboard. Why one and not the other?
>
Because we don't care for Billboard here?  Actually, I'd guess that the
Mark Durand one was the one originally slated for the CD, but that for
those 'silly USA people who wouldn't care', they had to put some pop
icon in for his commentary about how they changed life, the universe,
and everything.

Of course, I may be wrong. (=

F.
--
Erm... Yeah.  Whatever.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Schachter <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) fyi...
Date: 26 Aug 1997 11:55:18 -0400 (EDT)


Rational Youth's first CD _Cold War Nightlife_ is being re-released today by
EMI records in Canada.  Call HMV in Montreal 800-567-2442 or Toronto
800-567-8468 to order yours.

[I haven't called yet, so I'm not sure that it is actually out today.]

See the RY homepage for more info on the release:

    http://www.lglobal.com/~fitzhowe/ry/

ObMWH:  Tracy Howe, the driving force of Rational Youth, played keyboards with
MWH before the Folk of the 80's ep was released.

Jeff




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) fyi...
Date: 26 Aug 1997 12:06:19 +0000


Jeff Schachter wrote:
>
> Rational Youth's first CD _Cold War Nightlife_ is being re-released today
> ObMWH:  Tracy Howe, the driving force of Rational Youth, played keyboards with
> MWH before the Folk of the 80's ep was released.

He actually played guitar on it!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) fyi...
Date: 26 Aug 1997 12:11:38 +0000


> Jeff Schachter wrote:
> >
> > Rational Youth's first CD _Cold War Nightlife_ is being re-released today
> > ObMWH:  Tracy Howe, the driving force of Rational Youth, played keyboards with
> > MWH before the Folk of the 80's ep was released.
>
> He actually played guitar on it!

Correction: Roman Martyn did the guitars on Folk of the 80's. Tracy
plays guitars on Freeways... Sorry.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 26 Aug 1997 13:46:13 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, everyone, Angie again.  So far I have received messages from 8 people who
are willing to commit to the private show that WILL happen if I get some
more responses. Three of those people would like to take their spouses.
Including me, the total donation for Ivan & band so far, at $100 per person
and $50 per spouse, is $1050 in US dollars.  Not bad for only 12 people
altogether!
Where are you, Laura!  Are you in?  Bring Trena!  E-mail me!
How about you, Claude?  Francis, are you interested?
Al?  How about you?
Once 25 people total have e-mailed me expressing a commitment to this show,
I will make all the arrangements. This is a promise.
(I don't mean to put these list members on the spot.  I'm just really excited
about this and in addition to being a great show, I believe it would be a great
way for everyone on this list, or at least those who can attend, to all get
together and meet one another.  It would bring a real unity to the group and
also create a bond between band & fan base.)
I cannot take another step, however, until I receive some more positive re-
sponses from those of you who would like to come.
All the proceeds will go directly to Ivan. I cannot state this enough.  Don't
think of it as charity if you don't feel comfortable with that.  Think of it
as the admission price to a memorable evening in an intimate atmosphere, with
your friends and favorite performing artist.
Some people have e-mailed me with suggestions for creating further royalties
for Ivan & band.  For example, if Ivan would agree to front us a tape of demo
tracks and other unreleased material, we could sell copies to list members
only, with all the proceeds payable to Ivan.  He might be willing to do such
a thing; it won't hurt to ask.
Secondly, maybe we could have someone videotape the show, and we could release
copies to members only for $20 or $25 apiece, with the proceeds again going
directly to Ivan.  This of course would be subject to Ivan's approval.
I have an image in my head that is something like this:  30 to 40 list members
and their spouses in a nice-looking hall, sort of like a VFW or American Legion
hall (of course, it would be the Canadian equivalent to this), with good acous-
tics, and it must have some sort of a stage area. We are all sitting at tables
sipping cola or having a few beers, and it is a relaxed atmosphere but also
extremely appreciative and enthusiastic.  Or there could be no tables and we
could just gather at the foot of the stage at showtime.  Ivan comes on,
possibly just him and his electric piano, or him & one other guy with a keyboard
that has a drum machine, and Ivan could be playing guitar &







'





..........................................`                                                       OPAAAAAAA
OOPS!! Sorry. these library computers are the pits.
Anyway......Ivan could be playing guitar and singing, and he would do a 1 & one
half hour set, or two separate hours with a significant break in-between, to
meet us personally, sign autographs, whatever.  Maybe we could make suggestions
as to which songs he could play, or maybe he would like to take total control
of the show and entertain us with songs he wants to sing for us.  (As far as
I am concerned, once he decides to do the show for us, he can do whatever he
wants with it.)
This would be a hush-hush sort of thing for anyone & anything outside of the
mailing list membership or Ivan's band.  Absolutely no one would know anything
about it except for us, and whomever Ivan chooses to tell.
So please keep e-mailing me or the list with feedback, suggestions, and commit-
ments, and let's get this show on the road!!  IT WILL HAPPEN if you want it to!

Love to all,
Angie   :-)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joern Haase <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Fwd: I'm looking for some boots
Date: 24 Aug 1997 15:01:31 +0200


Hi there...

> Has anyone had contact with Todd about the boots he is making.

No... It is getting a bit weared.. He acknoledged my payment on May,
29th...

> I just wondered if anyone knew what the status was.  Thanks.

Sorry, i can't help you.. I am waiting with you..

joern



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 26 Aug 1997 12:53:33 +0000


I was thinking of opening it up to the public. Here in UTAH there are
a few people that I know really well that have been able to dig up
some cool bands and have them play (Anything Box, Red Flag, Seven Red
Seven) they have also been trying to work on alphaville.

To tell you the truth I would prefer a place where there is hundres
of people all jammin out (maybe i am crazy) - I think we need to find
out how much Ivan and another band member would charge to put on a
show. We would then open the show up to the public with all the
profits going to IVAN. I have a few connections to people with
concert sound systems and know some good places we could put it on. I
think alot of people in UTAH would come to see Men Without Hats.
(Plus I would not have to travel :)  )

I dont think we could get enough money together if it was just
limited to the MWH mailing list. I know that renting a concert
system and lights can cost alot (even if its including in the
building) - I say we find out how much IVAN and a bandmember will
charge to put on a show. That way we will find out how much money we
will need to get together and if there is more profits we can give
them to IVAN.

-Richard Holdman

> Hi, everyone, Angie again.  So far I have received messages from 8 people who
> are willing to commit to the private show that WILL happen if I get some
> more responses. Three of those people would like to take their spouses.
> Including me, the total donation for Ivan & band so far, at $100 per person
> and $50 per spouse, is $1050 in US dollars.  Not bad for only 12 people
> altogether!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) GIVING TODD THE BOOT!
Date: 26 Aug 1997 16:06:01 -0400 (EDT)


WHAT THE HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I GUESS WE'VE BEEN TAKIN' IN BY A SCAM
ARTIST!!!! IT'S BEEN 3 MONTHS AND NOTHING!!!!  NOT EVEN AN EMAIL!!!! I'M
PISSED!!!!!!! 13 YEARS OF DOING MAILORDER AND ONLY ONCE BEING SCAMMED. OOPS,
NOW IT'S TWICE!!!!!!!!!!! COME ON !!!!!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: * <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re:hey
Date: 26 Aug 1997 16:26:46 +0000


Angie and List members

Lets get Ivan and Co to play Foufoune Electrique (in Montreal)
The Club has a proper P A. It has a house tech and is fully equipt. (its
very cool)
Im sure that Ivan would take a $2,500 guarentee
If we charge the list members $25/ea- Im sure we could get at least 150
to purchase tickets- you could count me in for 6- this way more american
fans can afford to come up and only have to pay for airfare and hotel-
Im sure Ivan or someone at TOX is reading this and would be more then
happy to accomadate his fans... i think its a good idea to
open it to the public  - 200people  @ $25/ each  ----$ 5 000 !
Someone should call TOX and make arrangements-
Angie?


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric W. Soderblom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re:hey
Date: 26 Aug 1997 13:38:58 -0700 (PDT)


i think its a good idea to
>open it to the public  - 200people  @ $25/ each  ----$ 5 000 !

I would tend to agree with this.  Limiting it to ONLY hats members makes it
more $$$ for us, and less $$$ for Ivan.  If I went, I would have no problem
being with 'non-members' there.  I think that there might be a decent draw
in Montreal.  Just my 2 cents (US).

-Eric





Eric W. Soderblom       |   Voice:  707-746-7582
P.O. Box 488            |   Cell:   707-494-3411
Benicia, CA  94510  USA |
MWH Index - http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) MWH Phone Cards
Date: 26 Aug 1997 14:47:08 +0000


Well I talk to a few places that sell phone card numbers. It seems
that you have to buy at least 1000 phone card numbers from these
companies (way to many I think :) - So the only other way to make a
real MWH phone card would to buy some real phone cards and then I
would just copy the codes off these cards. (Example - Go to walmart
and buy a few phonecards and then take the info off those and put
them on a MWH card)

If anyone is still intrested let me know. Or we could make MWH
playing cards :)

-Rich


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alain Robillard-Bastien <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re:hey
Date: 26 Aug 1997 17:23:30 -0400


"Lets get Ivan and Co to play Foufoune Electrique (in Montreal)
The Club has a proper P A. It has a house tech and is fully equipt. (its

very cool)"

That is an EXCELLENT idea!  Les Foufs is a good place for this event,
and Yvan is familliar with it. But... will they go (Les Foufounes
=C9lectriques) with a private party? It would have to be on a day like
monday or tuesday. Does anyone from Montreal know the staff over there?
I don't know them but I could ask them anyway. Politely that is ;-). But
we should get Yvan's idea on that first.

Al.
 =

 =




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric W. Soderblom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re:hey
Date: 26 Aug 1997 15:04:39 -0700 (PDT)



>That is an EXCELLENT idea!  Les Foufs is a good place for this event,
>and Yvan is familliar with it. But... will they go (Les Foufounes
>=C9lectriques) with a private party? It would have to be on a day like
>monday or tuesday.=20

On Tuesday.....COOL :-)

-Eric





Eric W. Soderblom       |   Voice:  707-746-7582     =20
P.O. Box 488            |   Cell:   707-494-3411     =20
Benicia, CA  94510  USA |                            =20
MWH Index - http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers.... countdown!
Date: 26 Aug 1997 18:05:44 -0400 (EDT)


Hey!!!

400 stickers to go!!!

PLEASE increase your order!!!!!!!!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Stickers.... countdown!
Date: 26 Aug 1997 18:06:22 -0400 (EDT)


Hey!!!

400 stickers to go!!!

PLEASE increase your order!!!!!!!!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Stickers.... countdown!
Date: 26 Aug 1997 18:44:03 +0000


[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Hey!!!
>
> 400 stickers to go!!!
>
> PLEASE increase your order!!!!!!!!
>
> Francis

Hey, I know Ivan did the design for the MWH logo. Will he get his
deserved royalties on this thing? Or was a licensed paid in order to get
the rights to print and sell those stickers? If it's the case, I may be
interested in buying some...

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 26 Aug 1997 19:39:02 -0400 (EDT)


Angie,

I appreiciate your enthusiasm for this project, and if you can pull it off,
count me in (I guess that is a commitment), but I think the money issue is
being overplayed.  How about just ask Ivan if he could do a concert for us,
check his response and then work out the money details.  Ivan has not put out
all this music to get rich, I imagine.  He was very friendly with the hatters
at his concert, so I think asking him to do this is not too far fetched, but
don't worry so much about the money, that can work itself out.  I applaud
your efforts so far, and if you can make this work, I'd imagine a free beer
for you would be in order(or any beverage you choose).  Just my 2 cents.

[e-mail]


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Where do the boys go mp3
Date: 26 Aug 1997 18:04:02 +0000


Hello - On the MWH mp3 archive right now is a copy of the Chinese
Detectives doing Where do the boys go. It is under the dir called
covers.

Enjoy

-Rich

The mp3 archive is located at www.holdman.com/mwh


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan....show.....
Date: 26 Aug 1997 22:30:40 -0400 (EDT)


HEy!!!

Like I said recently, Ivan cannot do a private show without advising Tox
record.

I left a message to Tox to know all the formalities regarding our private
show.


I'll keep you in touch!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Probably your last chance for stickers
Date: 26 Aug 1997 22:32:53 -0400 (EDT)


To whom who did not take any stickers.


We are reprinting the 2 inches round MWH logo on glossy stickers.

It's 10$ per 100.

We only have 400 left.

Dont miss your chance, we will probably be sold out in a couple of days!!!!

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Re:  Ivan concert
Date: 26 Aug 1997 23:31:50 -0500


Actually, a concert does not need huge lights and sound systems to be
spectacular.  I understand that one of Bowie's most memorable concerts
consisted of nothing but him and a guitar!  At any rate, most clubs, of
necessity, have rudimetantary lighting/sound systems of thier own.  I'm
certain that such systems would suffice for our purposes -- we are,
after all, most interested in Ivan and not a Broadway production.  (Of
course, Ivan himself might have certain technological requirements, but
these can be tackled once things are underway. . . .)

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Ivan concert
Date: 26 Aug 1997 23:38:38 -0500


I agree that opening the show to the public would reduce our cost; but,
would such a move accomplish our goal?  I mean:  arranging for a show
and then inviting everyone would hardly be an event.  Why not simply
wait for Ivan's  next show and converge on Montreal? If only the
die-hard fans (and, of course, immidiate friend and relatives of
die-hard fans) were allowed to attend, the show would be more intimate
and special.  Of course, I might only be dreaming. . . .

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Private concert
Date: 27 Aug 1997 05:37:46 UT


I don't know about elsewhere, but in Chicago, bands like Mw/oH, Modern
English, etc.  Get paid like ZERO for a club show.  Maybe $500-750, if they
really have a (albeit old) name conceivably $1000.  The point here being that
a show would be really cheap, especially if Ivan/They were on tour anyway.  I
like the idea...

Rush




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Re:  Ivan concert
Date: 27 Aug 1997 08:36:11 +0000


Usually bands have a request list of everything they need. A good
friend of mine put together a show were Red Flag and Anything Box
came (The best concert I have ever been to next to Book of Love) They
had a list of everything that they require from sound to Synths even
to Pork Rinds backstage!

Someone just needs to talk to Ivan and see what he wants to do and
then we will work out where, how, and why after we talk to him.

-Rich

> Actually, a concert does not need huge lights and sound systems to be
> spectacular.  I understand that one of Bowie's most memorable concerts
> consisted of nothing but him and a guitar!  At any rate, most clubs, of
> necessity, have rudimetantary lighting/sound systems of thier own.  I'm
> certain that such systems would suffice for our purposes -- we are,
> after all, most interested in Ivan and not a Broadway production.  (Of
> course, Ivan himself might have certain technological requirements, but
> these can be tackled once things are underway. . . .)
>
> Yours Sincerely,
> Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (cjp)
Subject: (hats) Hello!
Date: 27 Aug 1997 09:47:54 -0700


  Hullo all!

  This is my first posting to the group. It;s really great to discover that
there really are other people out there who still appreciate MWH. But anyway,
just to get it out of the way, here's my
this-is-my-first-post-please-answer-my-silly-question question. What does
anyone know about "Editions of You" on the 2 new comps? It's not on any of the
other albums, it's not even written by MWH. I'd imagine there's some fabulous
story behind the inclusion of this.... love to hear it!

 Chris



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: Re: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 27 Aug 1997 12:39:43 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, all, Angie here again.  Rich made a good suggestion about opening up the
private concert to the public.  I would like some feedback on this, however
I would like to post a dissenting opinion for these reasons:
1) I would like to make this whole thing as non-stressful as possible for
Ivan.  I don't want him to have to worry about traveling, I don't want him
to be stressed out at all.  I just want to rent a small hall, get 30 to 50
people together, including everyone Ivan would like to attend, and give him
the ball and let him run with it.
2) I would like to hold this show in Montreal for a few reasons; namely, Ivan
and band will not have to travel, with the US to Canadian dollar exchange rate
they should get about 25% to  30% more returns from every US dollar contributed,
3) Though a concert-quality sound system and light show would be impressive,
I believe if this show is put on for hard-core Ivan/MWH fans like us, it will
be such an intimate atmosphere that we will not have need for all that.  A
two-speaker PA system would be just fine, and I'm sure if Ivan doesn't have
one, I can wrangle one up somewhere.
4) If there are hundreds of people in attendance, Ivan would be unlikely to
mingle with the list members after the show to sign autographs, take pictures,
say hello, etc.
5) The word is SIMPLICITY.  This show should be, IMHO, for Ivan and the music,
not all the glamour and glitter of a big-time rock n roll event.

Feedback??

Angie :-)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Vanishing act
Date: 27 Aug 1997 13:44:42 +0000


Hi everybody...

I'm part of the gang who ordered the 3 boots and send money to Todd
Draper 3 months ago. Both his e-mail address and home page URL are
disconnected. Somebody has a clue about what is going on?

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) Private Show
Date: 27 Aug 1997 13:54:37 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, all, it's Angie.  Now that I've collected all my e-mail I would like
to keep you all posted on this private show I would like to arrange.
I have had some comments about holding the show at a central location
like the Central US, and also some about opening up the show to the public.
I have addressed these concerns in my previous posting to the list, and while
these ideas are good and work well in theory, I am afraid they may not work
as well in practice.  I want to make the offer as attractive as I can to
Ivan, and I want to eliminate any reasons why he may say no.  For example,
he may like the idea of a simple, non-stressful concert for a few enthused
fans, and dislike the idea of traveling to a remote location, incurring
all the expenses therein, and playing to a group of half-interested people
(the general public).  He might really be receptive to a show that requires
little effort on his part except to show up, play for us all on a simple
sound system, and then enjoy himself by speaking to his biggest fans in
a relaxed atmosphere.  The key is simplicity.  The simpler we make it on
him, the more likely he is to say OK to this show!

    So far, I have 17 list members who are definitely willing to put up
the $100 apiece, plus 3 spouses at $50. This is $1850 in mostly US dollars.
This is an excellent monetary turnout for a one- or two-man band.  However,
I would like to get it up to $2500 before I approach Ivan with the offer.
If 6 or 7 more people from this list agree that they would like to go when
this show is set up, I will be happy to travel to Montreal to work out
the arrangements.  I have 3 people who have e-mailed me saying they would
be willing to go if the show was opened up to the public, thus bringing
ticket prices down.  I believe Keith posted a note saying if we open it
to the public we will be defeating the whole purpose. I could not agree
MORE with that statement!  Therefore, are you three willing to come,
knowing the admission donation will be $100 (for a private show, mind you).
??? Please e-mail me with your responses.

   Francis has informed me that he has gotten in touch with Tox records
initially to make them aware of our hopeful plans.  Since he has worked
before with MWH old management company, I trust he will do all he can to
help us out with these plans.  However, in the interest of keeping things
simple, I would like to ask that no one e-mail Tox with any more information.
Have you ever played that game "Telephone" in grade school, where you all sit i
in a circle and the first person whispers the original message in the next
person's ear, and on it goes in whispers, and by the time the message has
m   ........  reached the last person, it's completely different from the
original message?  This is the kind of situation I would like to avoid,
and I realize everyone is excited about the possibilities of this show
really coming together, but keep it under your hats for now! OK?

   I have had a suggestion that we book a club in Montreal called Le Foufoune
Electrique, on a Monday or Tuesday for the private show.  I have heard about
this place and I think it would be perfect for the show.  They have their
own stage and sound system.  I guess it used to be a punk rock club, and
I believe Ivan has played there before.  I would like to arrange the show for
next spring.


  Please keep e-mailing me with your suggestions/comments.  I would like
to know who else is willing to front a donation of $100 and travel to
Montreal for a members-only show by Ivan.  Who else is in?  If we get the
price up to $3000 I am sure that our only concern will be meeting with
Ivan and setting a date.  But the goal, for now, is $2500, plus all the
proceeds from the sale of any videotapes we make or any demos Ivan may
release to us, payable directly to Ivan.

  As I have said before, if I can get in touch with someone who knows some-\
one who owns a club/hall in Montreal, and I can get it for free, I will do
it.  Possibly when I meet with Ivan he will know somewhere we can hold this
show at minimal rental cost, or no rental cost.

  Remember:  The Key Is Simplicity!!

  Love to all, Angie.    :-)




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Bootlegs!
Date: 27 Aug 1997 17:00:05 +0000


Okay,
=20
Here is the deal; I want everyone who has ordered the Cds from Todd
Draper to send me there full name, date of ordering (if possible) and
mode and amount of payment. If by any chance one of you still have
Todd's postal address, forward it to me please...

Je vous l=E8ve mon chapeau...

P.S. Francis, tu les as toi les Bootlegs? J'ai un ami qui a un CD
burner...

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) Vanishing act
Date: 27 Aug 1997 18:13:15 -0400 (EDT)


In a message dated 97-08-27 13:48:35 EDT, you write:

<< Both his e-mail address and home page URL are
 disconnected. Somebody has a clue about what is going on? >>

Yeah, I know!  It's called being scammed!!!

Ray


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: Re: (hats) Logo Integrity
Date: 27 Aug 1997 17:22:21 -0500 (CDT)


yipper, yooze got some questions going here. you know I suspected Oglio and
Aquarius were in league with the compilations because the packaging is
simply too simular, ie, the pictures, colors, font's etc... way back before
the collections came out I ask Carl if Freeways and Utterspace were going to
be on it and he said "maybe", then oddly enough the two compilations came
out about the same time, one with the much sought after Freeways, the other
with the Extended version of I got the MSG, so I ask Carl if he had any
connection with the Aquarius label and never got an answer, so I like many
of you ended buying Both of the compilations, which I think was a raw deal!
   Now about the concert, how about a telecasted concert over the airwaves,
or maybe on the net. That would almost be as cool! Angie, you and I are
about as hardcore Hat fans (as is everyone on this list!) I remember
thinking the same pipe dream about having a private concert, shortly after
the all to brief concert with Icehouse, I though "man, there's gotta be a
way to get these cats back for a "real" concert and not this openning act
business. Oh Ivan...If you out there......HELP!!!! Ok, lets just all move to
Canada!!!! yeah, thats the ticket! all you lucky dogs who got to see our
idol in the flesh! Hey, by the way I have finally found a someone in my life
and I'm in LOVE!!!!!! Will
HEY EVERYONE....I LOVE YOU!!!! EVEN the meanies!!!!PEACE<LOVE!!! :-}
>
>Hello.
>
>Speaking of which, I have a few questions.
>
>Obviously Greatest Hats is almost the same as Collection.  Collection has
>artwork credits, and GH doesn't.  Did they (Aquarius Canada) pay Oglio for
>the artwork.  Was it Oglio who did the artwork in the first place?  Did
>they in fact steal the design?  If they did, that could explain the slight
>difference in the logo, because it would then not be copyrighted.
>
>I also find it odd that Aquarius would licence this material, since mwh
>were never on that label, even in Canada. (the Oglio label makes perfect
>sense btw)
>
>Also, why the differences in tracks.  Does anyone know.  I believe
>Collection came out first (am I wrong) and was it the basis for GH, or was
>it the other way around.  Or where they concurrent projects (this seems
>unlikely given the obvious similarities.)  How could the Canadian version
>omit Moonbeam and Hey Men, two of their (I believe) biggest hats...  er,
>hits.  I assume Collection omitted Freeways because it is mostly in French
>but I am guessing.
>
>And, why is the essay inside different.  The Canadian one has notes by Marc
>Durand (mwh producer) and the US version has notes by Brett Atwood of
>Billboard. Why one and not the other?
>
>I guess today I have more questions than answers...
>
>Rod
>Los Angeles
>
>(waiting for my M+M compilation Carl...  :-)
>





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) hello!
Date: 27 Aug 1997 17:43:42 -0500 (CDT)


Hey Chris, Welcome aboard the list! There are many a kind folk on here. I
know, because they have all been very patient and very loving in their
messages to me.
As to the question about the song "Editions", it was one of their early
covers of a song penned by Bryan Ferry of Roxy Music. It's on their first
album. The cover is remarkably the same as the original, Eno's keyboard work
was faithfully recreated. As to why, it's because Roxy was a big influence
on Ivan's musical career, along with Peter Gabriel, Abba and many others.
As to those with the boot problem!!!! Wasn't there someone else making these
things too? Claude, what was that cryptic msg at the end of your last response!
(I really need to learn french.... IT's SO ROMANTIC!) the silly one-Will
ps. my honey just sang me "you are my sunshine" on the answering machine,
ah, I'm in LOVE!!!!



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) Ivan Concert
Date: 27 Aug 1997 20:22:39 -0400 (EDT)




To all members of the mailing list who live in Montreal: If we opened
up this show to the public, and charged a regular ticket price with
all proceeds payable to Ivan, how many people would show up, in your
estimation? I guess a regular ticket price would be somewhere between
$10 and $20.
 Please respond.



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) Ivan Concert
Date: 27 Aug 1997 20:52:53 -0400 (EDT)




By "how many people will show up" I mean how many people from the
general public, *not* including members of this mailing list?
Feedback, please.
The more feedback I receive, the more enlightened I become regarding
the best, simplest, and most enjoyable way to let this show happen.
My foremost concern is Ivan - his enjoyment and profit from the show
is of primary importance to me. If he would enjoy doing a small,
acoustic, private show, fine.  If he would rather do a BIG, public,
rock concert, fine! It will be up to him to decide. I would like
you, Montreal residents and other residents of Canada, to let me
know, in your estimation, how much money he could make doing a
public show VS. doing a private show.  This will allow him to make a
fully-informed decision on the best way to do it.
Maybe if we do a public show, he will allow us to film it, and sales of
the videotape to list members would be forwarded to Ivan?
Also, how does everyone feel about sending Ivan royalties from the
private sale of bootlegs & tee-shirts? I believe he owns the rights
to his music and also to the MWH logo. I think if we are using these
things and selling them without any money going to the original
creator, we are doing a great disservice to the man & band we all
stand behind and promote!! This is contrary to what we all should
be standing for: the right of the creator to profit from his intel-
lectual property.  Since we all benefit so much from what Ivan has
given us, why shouldn't he benefit also?
Write back, anyone who has comments is welcome to share them with me.
I would love to put a concert like this together but keep in mind
that everything is in the best interest of Ivan, first and foremost,
over and above everything else.
I will work tirelessly to get this off the ground and I will volunteer
my time and services for this whole thing. Your suggestions are appre-
ciated.
Good night to you all!
Angie  :-)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan's private show
Date: 28 Aug 1997 00:53:31 -0400 (EDT)


Okay everyone.

I should have all the informations tomorrow regarding a private show of Ivan
in Montreal.

I got in touch with Tox records yesterday and I have to finalise everything
with the marketing guy there.

I'll let you know.

Francis

P.s.  stickers::::::::::: 300 to go


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: Re: (hats) Bootlegs info
Date: 28 Aug 1997 02:04:50 -0700


Hello.

I happened to have saved the email with the list of everyone who ordered,
the date (5/5/97), the prices and Todd's address.

But (with all due respect) who are you and what would you like to do with
this information?  Frankly I am a little concerned.

:-)

Rod
Los Angeles


>Here is the deal; I want everyone who has ordered the Cds from Todd
>Draper to send me there full name, date of ordering (if possible) and
>mode and amount of payment. If by any chance one of you still have
>Todd's postal address, forward it to me please...
>
>Claude




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Bootlegs info
Date: 28 Aug 1997 07:44:37 -0400


>>Here is the deal; I want everyone who has ordered the Cds from Todd
>>Draper to send me there full name, date of ordering (if possible) and
>>mode and amount of payment. If by any chance one of you still have
>>Todd's postal address, forward it to me please...
>>
>>Claude

With all due respect.......................
............
.........
GET HIM CLAUDE!!!!!


Tom
[e-mail]







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Todd
Date: 28 Aug 1997 07:51:49 -0400


 This is really too bad.   If Todd really GOT us all, then it could blow the whole
"trust thing" that all the hatters have on this list.

Well,
Since we are all beginning to worry about this kind of thing once more.......
I will once again leave updates on my video progress.

1. Trena Brantley -  I am mailing your video today     (with MWH videos as well)
2. Bob Webb - I am mailing your #2 MWH videotape today - how's the Ivan tape?
3. Daniele Rossi - got your check, making your video now, will mail.


OK.  Thats my 5 cents worth.

You know I badmouthed this Todd guy a couple of months ago for not following up with
everyone and He jumped on me about it.   I thought I was just paranoid.    The
problem is -- I was right, he DID disappear.
     If he reads this , which I hope he does, maybe he will give us regular updates
from now on.  :-(
Thats if his e-mail address and webpage magically reappear.


Tom
[e-mail]







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 28 Aug 1997 12:08:16 -0400


>To tell you the truth I would prefer a place where there is hundres
>of people all jammin out (maybe i am crazy) - I think we need to find


The answer is simple.   We put the cash together and rent.....a winnebego(SP)!
Perfect place!

:D  I'm in a weird mood today.  Sorry!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) CONCERT
Date: 28 Aug 1997 12:48:54 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, all. Angie here, keeping you up to date on developments.
Francis has made an appointment with Tox's marketing department regarding
the proposal for a private show.  However, I have asked him to hold off
for a little while, because I have been informed of some developments
that may generate more cash for Ivan and make him more likely to say
yes to our show! I need a little time to work out these details, so
everybody just *hang on* and I will keep you informed of any further
progress.
The final decision as to whether this concert is to be public or private
lies with Ivan! He is the only one who can make this decision. If he is
more comfortable playing in front of a huge audience, so be it. I hope
if he decides this, you will still all have the incentive to travel so
far to see the show, even if it is not a members-only show.  I repeat:
the decision is Ivan's to make.; whatever works best for him is fine
with me.
I also hope to create a sense of unity within the list membership by
getting us all together to meet one another.  This way we can gain
a better perspective on what we can accomplish together regarding the
appreciation, promotion, and support of Ivan and Men Without Hats.
This is something I am very dedicated to and have been for years and I
am proud to belong to such a caring, loyal group of people who feel the
same way.  I believe Men Without Hats were sorely underrated in America
regarding their other works (excepting ROY and PGTW) and if I can help
bring to light the beauty and genius of their music, along with the
rest of you, I will be very glad.
Are you all behind me?
Then let us get to work!
I will keep you informed!

Angie




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan's show!!!
Date: 28 Aug 1997 11:54:28 -0700


HEY HATS FAN!!!!

It's Francis.... Sorry I'm from my office, so the name is not the same.

Ok I have a great news!!!!  I spoke to Tox records.  There is no problem at
all for a private show of Ivan.

What I need from you is the following: (answer me at my regular address
[e-mail]
Your name
Number of people who will attend
When are you able to come.

We need 200 to 300 peoples.  The price for the tickets as to be determined
but it will be not too much expensive!!!!!


Answer me at my regular address:  [e-mail]

Very important!!!! [e-mail]

Ciao


Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) private show
Date: 28 Aug 1997 12:22:29 +0000


Personally, I'd rather see the whole band than just an acoustic set,
but either way, I'd go.  Could we get a price difference between the
two options?  I'd pay more than $100 if I could see Ivan and his band
perform my favorite songs in all their glory.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David P. King" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) private show
Date: 28 Aug 1997 11:46:10 -0600


> Personally, I'd rather see the whole band than just an acoustic set,
> but either way, I'd go.  Could we get a price difference between the
> two options?  I'd pay more than $100 if I could see Ivan and his band
> perform my favorite songs in all their glory.

I think this brings up an important point.  There is no way I would pay
$100 to see Ivan perform a full set of his new material with just a few MWH
songs.  It's not that the new stuff isn't good, it's just different from
the ROY, FOTE, and PGTW stuff that I love.  If it were to be a show where
songs from these albums were showcased, it would be worth a lot more to me.
 (I still don't know if it would be worth $100 plus airfare to Canada, but
it would definitely be worth a lot more.)  The problem is that it would be
unlikely that TOX would be favorable to the idea of a MWH concert.  I'm
sure they don't mind that he plays a few older songs when he performs, but
they want to sell copies of the new Ivan album.  You don't sell a new album
by playing a bunch of old songs that they don't even have the rights to.

As the discussions go forward about a possible concert, I would want to
make sure that the setlist is an issue that is brought up.  If it's to be a
show for members of the list and these members are playing a lot of money
to attend, I would hope that there would be setlist that represents what
these members want to hear.

Just a thought,

--David
[e-mail]


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Todd
Date: 28 Aug 1997 07:51:49 -0400


 This is really too bad.   If Todd really GOT us all, then it could blow the whole
"trust thing" that all the hatters have on this list.

Well,
Since we are all beginning to worry about this kind of thing once more.......
I will once again leave updates on my video progress.

1. Trena Brantley -  I am mailing your video today     (with MWH videos as well)
2. Bob Webb - I am mailing your #2 MWH videotape today - how's the Ivan tape?
3. Daniele Rossi - got your check, making your video now, will mail.


OK.  Thats my 5 cents worth.

You know I badmouthed this Todd guy a couple of months ago for not following up with
everyone and He jumped on me about it.   I thought I was just paranoid.    The
problem is -- I was right, he DID disappear.
     If he reads this , which I hope he does, maybe he will give us regular updates
from now on.  :-(
Thats if his e-mail address and webpage magically reappear.


Tom
[e-mail]







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Claude GrΘgoire <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) about the boots
Date: 28 Aug 1997 18:19:57 +0000


Hi everybody!

I'm one of the "lucky ones". I just want to tell all the concern peoples
that they should not step to quickly to conclusion about Todd. I still
believe that there is a good reason behind all that. We know from one
off Todd's last message that is life was in some kind of turmoil. I'm
trying my best to reach Todd. Thanks to Rod I have the name and e-mail
of most of the peoples who ordered the Bootlegs. I'll get to each of you
on a personal basis to straighten the details about the next step we
should take. I take the opportunity to adress the subject of copyright
and royalties concerning thoses bootleg recordings. I think it would be
reasonable for each of us who bought MWH material (bootlegs and
t-shirts) produced and sold without the approbation of the first
interested (Ivan) to at least send money to cover the normal fees
attached to that kind of transaction. This is for me a way of showing
minimum respect to someone we are suppose to love so much! If I have a
positive enough reaction (at least 30% of the concerned peoples) I will
contact Tox to know how much money we should send, and where...

I'll keep you inform on the Todd's saga!

Claude


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rush " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (hats) private show
Date: 28 Aug 1997 22:27:43 UT


I agree whole heatedly with David, yet, I do not think TOX has much say over a
playlist other than a minimum # of new songs.  I would much rather see the
"classics"...

Rush

I think this brings up an important point.  There is no way I would pay
$100 to see Ivan perform a full set of his new material with just a few MWH
songs.  It's not that the new stuff isn't good, it's just different from
the ROY, FOTE, and PGTW stuff that I love.  If it were to be a show where
songs from these albums were showcased, it would be worth a lot more to me.
 (I still don't know if it would be worth $100 plus airfare to Canada, but
it would definitely be worth a lot more.)  The problem is that it would be
unlikely that TOX would be favorable to the idea of a MWH concert.  I'm
sure they don't mind that he plays a few older songs when he performs, but
they want to sell copies of the new Ivan album.  You don't sell a new album
by playing a bunch of old songs that they don't even have the rights to.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Question
Date: 28 Aug 1997 21:21:05 -0400 (EDT)


Is "banishment" a real word?

Myke Who Was Kicked Off The...


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) 3CD Sets
Date: 28 Aug 1997 21:18:10 -0400 (EDT)


Hey PowerHatters!

Ok, listen up.  Even though these are dark times for some of the fine folks
on this list because of the CD deal and Todd and all, I'm a musician and am
looking forward to the day when I can afford my own megacomputer with which
I can burn my own CDs of my own music.  When that day arrives, I will also
be able to burn fresh copies of the 3CD set which Todd has so far failed to
do.  I was one of the lucky 50 to get a set last year when they were first
made.  It may be something like a year though before I will get the
aforementioned megacomputer that I need.  Hopefully somebody else will be
able to do this job honestly before that time, but if not, I'll be there
for all of you!  In the meantime, if you still haven't heard the material
on these CDs and still want to, I can still make for you dubs of my CDs onto
VHS HiFi videocassettes for a price that's really low-down. :-)

I now have a list of those who ordered CDs from Todd Draper.  To those on the
list I will make a very good offer if I ultimately do become the one that
does finally make their discs.  Good news, a reliable source tells me that
he recently purchased 10 blank CD-R discs for just $20.  You do the math.
Just 6 months ago, one was lucky to get 10 for 4x that price!

Also, to all those who buy from me VHS HiFi tapes of my 3CD set, I will
supply my own original artsy (read 'kewl but boring'!) video signals to
go with them, so if you play the tape you won't have to stare at a blank
TeeVee screen.  Actually, that's nothing to get all excited about, but it
will be better than nothing at all to watch.  And maybe your friends will
all be amazed just a little bit more.  Either that or totally confused. :-)

Myke Who Was Once Kicked Off The List But Has Since Been Allowed Back Onto It
Thanks To All The Kewl People Who Put In A Good Word For Him During His
Banishment.  (Thanks!)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan's show must go on!!!!!  READ THIS MESSAGE
Date: 28 Aug 1997 22:25:15 -0400 (EDT)


Hey, I'm back at my house

I'm very excited!!!!  We will have OUR private show, imagine!  Like I said
earlier, I spoke to Ivan's manager today, and there is no problem at all to
organize a show.  PLUS, the price of the ticket will be reasonable.  Imagine,
the best of both worlds!

Ok, Leave me you name, number of people and the date you want.
I found a nice place in montreal for 200-250 peoples.

Now, if we are enough people, the show will be private.  If we are 30 or 40
peoples, we have to call the media to do publicity.  Ask your friends about
that!!!!  It could be the show of your life!!!!!!

Ciao!!!

Francis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The promoter........... hehehee


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) 3CD Sets
Date: 28 Aug 1997 20:49:54 -0700 (PDT)



Ok... I have a cd recorder, and if Todd doesn't show up I suppose I can
start making copies for people...

dave


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) ...In the 21st Century (warning: intelligence factor of zero)
Date: 29 Aug 1997 01:25:53 -0500


This one might seem stupid, given the weight of the subjects we've been
discussing, lately, but I am curious.  The label of my copy of ...In the
21st Century has begun to peel off.  As it does so, the center of the
disc becomes stickier and stickier -- so much so that I dare not use it,
for fear it will jam my player.  Has anyone else had this problem, or am
I the only lucky one?  Please respond.

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric W. Soderblom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Question
Date: 28 Aug 1997 23:46:23 -0700 (PDT)



>Is "banishment" a real word?

Yep---
ban-ish v. 1. To force to leave a country; exile.  2. To drive away; expel.
--ban'ish-ment n.







Eric W. Soderblom       |   Voice:  707-746-7582
P.O. Box 488            |   Cell:   707-494-3411
Benicia, CA  94510  USA |
MWH Index - http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) that gold baby on Sideways!!!
Date: 29 Aug 1997 01:58:45 -0500 (CDT)


Is it just me or isn't that "goldfinger" baby on the Sideways album kinda of
creepy? This album also has a very disturbing song on it too! I think we all
know which one I'm refering to, too! maybe? Perhaps we're all under some
weird "spell". I'll pass on the punch.... Will



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) 3CD Sets
Date: 29 Aug 1997 10:26:33 +0000


Just a reminder that all the material found on the bootlegs can be
downloaded in the mp3 format which is very near CD-Quality. The MWH
mp3 archive is located at http://www.holdman.com/mwh If you have not
checked this out yet you should. The new mp3 format is amazing.

>, if you still haven't heard the material
> on these CDs and still want to, I can still make for you dubs of my CDs onto
> VHS HiFi videocassettes for a price that's really low-down. :-)

> he recently purchased 10 blank CD-R discs for just $20.  You do the math.
> Just 6 months ago, one was lucky to get 10 for 4x that price!

I would like to know where get got them. I just bought 100 CD-R disc
a few weeks ago for $3.50 each. To get them for that cheap I had to
buy 100 of them on once. They came on a big spindle with no jewl
cases. Some of you might be wondering why I bought so many. I am in
the processes of converting all my CDS and records to mp3. I can fit
about 160 songs per CD this way. So far I have burned about 32 discs.

-Richard


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (Fwd) (hats) about the boots
Date: 29 Aug 1997 07:57:20 +0000


Based on Laura's reports, Ivan was delighted that his fans had
produced these items.  While it is a nice thought to want to
compensate the artist, there are things more important than money.  I
think the fact that we still carry the MWH torch is worth more to
Ivan than a check for a few bucks.


>I take the opportunity to adress the subject of copyright
>and royalties concerning thoses bootleg recordings.
>I think it would be reasonable for each of us who bought MWH
>material (bootlegs and t-shirts) produced and sold without the
>approbation of the first interested (Ivan) to at least send money to
>cover the normal fees attached to that kind of transaction. This is
>for me a way of showing minimum respect to someone we are suppose to
>love so much!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Kriens <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Alternatives to the "official" bootleg CDs
Date: 28 Aug 1997 23:22:05 -0400


Not that this is much consolation if you sent off money for copies of
the bootlegs that never materialized, but I should also point out that
if you've got a high speed network connection (or a lot of time), you
can download the tracks from the bootleg CDs from the MWH mpeg archives
that Richard Holdman is running.  (http://www.holdman.com/mwh)

If you've got a computer fast enough to handle the mpeg3 decoding,
you'll have all the songs in pristine digital format--yours to listen to
on your computer, burn onto CD, mini-disc, hi-fi VHS, or whatever.
Perhaps Richard can get the original bootleg CD covers and disc art to
put on his site so that anyone can make their own CDs from it as they
see fit.

-John


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: (hats) that gold baby on Sideways!!!
Date: 29 Aug 1997 10:16:43 +0000


Forwarded message:

Yep - I would have keept it if it was not for that one song. As soon
as I heard it (and the whole alblum) I was depressed. I have never
seen such a good band so downhill so fast. A few days later I sold
the album to a used CD store for $7

> This album also has a very disturbing song on it too! I think we all
> know which one I'm refering to, too! maybe? Perhaps we're all under some
> weird "spell". I'll pass on the punch.... Will


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (hats) private show
Date: 29 Aug 1997 07:57:20 +0000


> As the discussions go forward about a possible concert, I would want to
> make sure that the setlist is an issue that is brought up.  If it's to be a
> show for members of the list and these members are playing a lot of money
> to attend, I would hope that there would be setlist that represents what
> these members want to hear.

I agree up to a point.  I certainly want to hear my favorite oldies,
but I don't mind hearing songs from the new disc.  In fact, I like
some of them just as well as the older stuff.  On the other hand, we
can go to any Ivan appearance and hear the new stuff...


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) CONCERT
Date: 29 Aug 1997 13:11:04 -0400 (EDT)




Hi, Angie here.  OK, everything is coming along well.  As soon as I
have details I will let you all know what is developing with the
show!  Francis will know before I do so he will probably post some
information for you soon.
Let's not worry about what is going to be on Ivan's set list!  I'm
sure if it is possible to keep this show private, he will be gracious
enough to do some requests for MWH material.  But don't forget, Ivan
is very proud of his new material (as well he should be), and may want
to give us all the experience of hearing some of it live!!  I say to
you, my first and most primary concern is whatever Ivan feels comfor-
table doing.  This should be your concern as well.  If he is gracious
enough to accept our offer for I private show, it would make no
difference to me WHAT he decides to play.  However, like I said, Ivan
knows we are all huge fans of MWH material and will most likely throw
a good amount of those songs in with the other songs he does.
Let's all keep our fingers crossed that this idea becomes a dream come
true!

Love to all,   Angie   :-)







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (phil manger)
Date: 29 Aug 1997 13:32:56 -0400


Hello.

I'm writing to inquire about the 3 CD fanbase compilation of Men w/o Hats
material.  I would like to, if possible, pick up a copy.

Please bounce back a reply and let me know what you think.

Thanks very much.

-Philip Manger


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) (hats) about the boots
Date: 29 Aug 1997 11:59:32 +0000


I agree with you. If I was Ivan (which I am not :) ) I would either
want a whole bunch of money from the thing or none at all. I would
think it was silly getting a check for $10 every now and then
because of a "bootleg" sell.

I dont think Ivan needs our charity money. Some things are worth alot
more than money and I think just having this mailing list and a MWH
fanclud is worth alot more than money. I am sure he is happy with all
of us.

I would though take him out to dinner if he wanted me to :)

-Richard

> Based on Laura's reports, Ivan was delighted that his fans had
> produced these items.  While it is a nice thought to want to
> compensate the artist, there are things more important than money.  I
> think the fact that we still carry the MWH torch is worth more to
> Ivan than a check for a few bucks.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) Alternatives to the "official" bootleg CDs
Date: 29 Aug 1997 12:05:04 +0000



> If you've got a computer fast enough to handle the mpeg3 decoding,
> you'll have all the songs in pristine digital format--yours to listen to
> on your computer, burn onto CD, mini-disc, hi-fi VHS, or whatever.
> Perhaps Richard can get the original bootleg CD covers and disc art to
> put on his site so that anyone can make their own CDs from it as they
> see fit.

Sounds Good to me. Can someone scan in the artwork from the disc and
send them to me and I will put them up? I have no idea what they even
look like. Who made the artwork? If they still have the digital files
they could make PDF files of them and send them. If you want to help
email me and we will work it out.

just a note that each song on the archive will take about 25mins to
download if you have a 28.8 modem. Some folks just cue the whole
thing up with their FTP software just before they go to bed and just
let it go all night long (you computer does not need to sleep :)

-Richard Holdman

P.S. Want more rare stuff on the archive? If you have it send it my
way and I will put it on.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Let's think this one out
Date: 29 Aug 1997 14:21:58 -0400


> This is really too bad.   If Todd really GOT us all, then it could blow
the >whole "trust thing" that all the hatters have on this list.

That is bad. but remember, we all got t-shirts, Cds, stickers, and videos so
one guy shouldn't taint everything.  I was thinking of having my cds copied.
You wouldn't get the covers of course.  --there's a place here than can do
it for $10, but that would be $10 each disc and I doubt you'd want to fork
out another $30!


>Well,
>Since we are all beginning to worry about this kind of thing once more.......
>I will once again leave updates on my video progress.
>3. Daniele Rossi - got your check, making your video now, will mail.

Thank you! :)  See, you can still trust other people!  I think really,
before jumping to conclusions, we should look at other possible reasons for
his absence. Someone said his email doesn't work nor his web page. Has
anyone tried mailing him by post? Maybe he is sick or worse......let's not
go there shall we. Is he still subscribed to the list?  Maybe he is on
vacation.  It is vacation time you know and perhaps he'll be back real soon.
Labour day is coming up.  Maybe there was trouble at work and he was working
overtime, etc.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) IMPORTANT!!!!!
Date: 29 Aug 1997 14:29:56 -0400 (EDT)





IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR HATS LIST MEMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone, this is Angie with some EXCELLENT and EXCITING NEWS!!!

Francis has spoken with Ivan's manager, who told him that Ivan will be
able to do a private concert for us at any time!!!

The biggest concern is,  HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL SHOW UP?

Here's the deal:  the less people who show up, the more expensive tickets
will be.  The more people who show up, the LESS expensive tickets will
be. Since this will be a private show, these people to whom I am
referring are YOU, YOUR SPOUSES, SIGNIFICANT OTHERS, FAMILY MEMBERS, and
ANYONE ELSE you would like to bring along!!

Remember when I suggested $100 per ticket?  This will only be the case if
we have only 30 people from this list who want to go.  If we have more,
say 60 people, the price will be $50 per ticket.  If we have even more,
like 90 people, the price will be $25 per ticket. If we get 150 people
from this list alone, who want to attend with their friends and family,
the price will be around $10 or $15 per ticket.

This weekend, those of you who would like to attend this fan-produced
private show MUST E-MAIL FRANCIS with this information:

* Who you are

* Whom you would like to bring along to the show

When we have a tally of how many people are willing to come, we will
then make decisions on how best to go about things.  Should it be a
full-band concert with lights in a large hall?  Or should it be a
solo or two-man concert in a cozy atmosphere? Depends on the number
of people who would like to go!

I would like to hold this show next spring, possibly April or May.
This way, the weather will be nice (hopefully), everyone can make
travel plans far in advance, and as more people join the hats list,
we will have more people interested in attending.

E-mail Francis with a date that you would like to see the show, within
April or May. We will then take a concensus and schedule the show on
a day that everyone feels is OK.  If there is a time in April or May
that you ABSOLUTELY UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER will be free to
attend, let Francis know.

OK - Francis's E-mail address is: [e-mail]

Let me repeat that:   [e-mail]

Please contact him this weekend, all of you who want to come to Montreal
to see Ivan!! Send him your answers to the above questions by Tuesday the
latest!  This way we will be able to work out the rest of the details!

OK, so go ahead and e-mail Francis!

We have a place we will probably be using for this show. It's called
La Musique ------- (fill in the blank, Francis). It can be rented at
a really good price.  It can hold 200, yet has a cozy atmosphere if
only 50 people are in attendance.

I hope you are all as excited as I am!

Love to all,

Angie 8-)




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard Holdman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Hats concert
Date: 29 Aug 1997 13:10:38 +0000


As much as I would love to see a MWH concert I can not afford to fly
all the way to Montreal to see the concert. I live in utah and airfare for my
 wife and I would be more than I could justify.

I would be able to go if it was somewhere like alberta or in the
middle of the united states.

I do have a friend that wants go go also but Montreal is also to far
away for him. :(

-Rich


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dr. Laura M.B. Kramer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) IMPORTANT!!!!!
Date: 29 Aug 1997 15:12:44 +0000


Hi All Hatters!

Sorry to have been so ABSENT, but the ol' server bellied up again.
But I'm back!

First thing I want to say is

Francis and Angie, you are INCREDIBLE!!!  Thanks for all you're doing
to help put this together.  Imagine me bowing and salaaming in your
general directions.  THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!


Angie asks us all to email Francis with ideas for dates (not ideas
for walls).  I thought I would send part of my reply to everyone,
since I think what I have to suggest about the date could be
discussed here.

Angie said...
> E-mail Francis with a date that you would like to see the show, within
> April or May. We will then take a concensus and schedule the show on
> a day that everyone feels is OK.  If there is a time in April or May
> that you ABSOLUTELY UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER will be free to
> attend, let Francis know.

NOT May 16/17

Remember that April 10/11/12 is Easter, and May 10 is Mother's Day.
People might rather be with their families on those weekends
(although I personally would go see Ivan over Christmas if that was
the only time he was going to come).

My  birthday is May 7 so that would be a good day ;-)  But seriously,
I would suggest towards the end of May since many of our list members
are in school, and might be having exams or papers due in late April
and early May.

I remember when I was finishing up a school year, and I would barely
have time to eat let alone travel for a concert.  What do our fellow
collegians think of perhaps restricting ourselves to either early
April (like up to the 15th of April) and late May (like after the
15th of May)?  Is this too restrictive?  I just don't want anyone to
have to make the decision between studying for a final or seeing
Ivan.

Hoep to see everyone soon in Montreal!


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) how about group rates?
Date: 29 Aug 1997 15:36:11 -0400


It's a long shot but there are many people from Toronto here, so how about
if we all go at the same time?  We might get a group discount on VIA Rail or
Airfare.

Say, will this be shown on tv? ;)  I think it could do wonders for Ivan if
Musique Plus (or Muchmusic, too) taped it and broadcasted it as an unplugged
thing or something.  Imagine.  After all these years, MWH still has a
following and THEY made the concert!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) HATS CONCERT
Date: 29 Aug 1997 15:32:15 -0400 (EDT)




Laura has a good point here.  I guess it would be best if we could
schedule this show for sometime before April 15 or after June 1.
That way we won't have to worry about people traveling in bad
weather, people recovering from seasonal colds & flu, exams,
graduations,  .....oh, my god!  I forgot I'm graduating next year!
.... OK. Let's shoot for sometime between April 1 and April 15.
E-mail Francis with a date somewhere in-between there.
I don't have a calendar in front of me so I don't know if Easter
falls in-between these dates. If we can work around Easter, that
would be excellent.

I have been in this library all day.  You should see the glares the
librarians shoot my way for hogging the e-mail computer!
Oh, well, anything for the Hats List.

Angie



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: (hats) ME AGAIN
Date: 29 Aug 1997 15:35:21 -0400 (EDT)




OK. Easter is April 10/11/12.  Should we do this the last week of
March, or whenever Spring Break is? Or should we do this during the
last 2 or 3 weeks of June?
Feedback!  We need feedback!

Thanx guys!

Angie   8-)






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Angela Tooley)
Subject: Re: (hats) how about group rates?
Date: 29 Aug 1997 15:39:46 -0400 (EDT)




Somebody, I think it was Claude, came up with the idea of filming this
as a sort of documentary/concert production. I think this would be
great. What is MusiquePlus? Is this a form of Canadian MTV on cable?
If they are interested in airing such a thing, it would be good
exposure for Ivan. When we determine how many people are to show up,
we will then work out details such as this.
Thank you all for your support!

Angie




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alain Robillard-Bastien <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) how about group rates?
Date: 29 Aug 1997 15:46:32 -0400


The group rate for transportation is an excellent idea. For those of you
who plan to stay in Montreal for a few days -at least one night for
everybody I guess-, it would also be possible, depending on the number
of visitors, to get special pricing from an hotel. Avril is not a very
busy month here in Montreal, so I think that a lot of hotels (small or
big, cheap or not), would be willing to give special discount rates if
we book multiple rooms at the same time. =


Al.

--
Alain Robillard-Bastien, agent de recherche - Research agent
Unit=E9 Interactions personne-syst=E8me informatis=E9 - Human-Computer
Interaction
Centre de recherche informatique de Montr=E9al  - Computer Research
Institute of Montreal
Tel.: [phone] - Fax: [phone]
[e-mail] - http://www.crim.ca/ipsi
 =




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alain Robillard-Bastien <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (hats) ME AGAIN
Date: 29 Aug 1997 15:55:18 -0400


In June, there will be two great festivals in Montreal:  Les
Francopholies (a french music and cultural festival) and the Montreal
International Jazz Festival. That would be a great time for everyone!
The only problem is that accomodation is harder to find -and a little
bit more expensive. But it's one of the best -if not the best- time to
come in Montreal. :-)

Al.

Angela Tooley wrote:

> OK. Easter is April 10/11/12.  Should we do this the last week of
> March, or whenever Spring Break is? Or should we do this during the
> last 2 or 3 weeks of June?--





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Musique Plus
Date: 29 Aug 1997 16:43:52 -0400



>great. What is MusiquePlus? Is this a form of Canadian MTV on cable?
>If they are interested in airing such a thing, it would be good

In 1984, Muchmusic was born.  It is the Canadian equivalent to MTV.  Musique
Plus is the French counterpart for the French speaking population.  I
beleive Musique Plus and a video cahnnel in France also joined together and
made an all-French satellite video channel.

April wouldn't be a good month because that's when most of us might still be
in exams. Is June a busy time due to St. Jean Baptiste? (A big day in Quebec)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (rod)
Subject: (hats) Re: Sideways
Date: 29 Aug 1997 13:48:03 -0700


Hey.

I am sorry to be so dense but what song are we talking about that is so
offensive?

I have no idea.

I also don't thoroughly like the album but I don't think it deserves the
bad reputation it has.  Yes it is a fairly raucous album as whole, but
there are a couple songs there that I actually like.  Sideways and Fall
Down Gently are pretty cool...  Kenbarbielove is ok and I am the Walrus
is...  an experience...

plus it's the only one I have that is autographed...

:-)

Rod
Los Angeles


>Yep - I would have kept it if it was not for that one song. As soon
>as I heard it (and the whole album) I was depressed.
>
>> This album also has a very disturbing song on it too! I think we all
>> know which one I'm refering to, too! maybe? Perhaps we're all under some
>> weird "spell". I'll pass on the punch.... Will




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Norman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) documentary
Date: 29 Aug 1997 17:19:07 -0400



>Somebody, I think it was Claude, came up with the idea of filming this
>as a sort of documentary/concert production. I think this would be
>great. What is MusiquePlus? Is this a form of Canadian MTV on cable?
>If they are interested in airing such a thing, it would be good
>exposure for Ivan. When we determine how many people are to show up,
>we will then work out details such as this.
>Thank you all for your support!

This would be the BEST thing of course!  On the other hand, by next year I will
certainly have better camcorder batteries and if nothing else, I can bring my AC
adapter and plug it right into the stage.    Also, I bet IVAN won't mind if we plug
right into the soundboard (I have adapters) for perfect stereo sound.  This would be
just for the videocamera mic, but I bet he won't mind us bringing in a CD recorder,
DAT or minidisc right into the soundboard as well.  We could make another fan CD from
this :-)    If this really is a PRIVATE concert then Ivan probably won't mind if we
do this.    I will certainly be there with my camera , just in case.
      Wolfgang,   Bring your Minidisc recorder!

Tom

[e-mail]








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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Ivan's show-----focussed on MWH
Date: 29 Aug 1997 21:45:03 -0400 (EDT)


Hey gang!

Ok, sum up time!
One of the concern of the people is to get an Ivan show but with a lot of mwh
old stuff! We will take in consideration when will be the time to sign the
contract!

Ok, like Angie said, the more people we are, cheaper will be the ticket!

Probably like 20 to 25$ per ticket

If we are enough people, we will get our private show.

By the way, it could be in october, in could be next year.  The most
important thing is getting people and ENJOY THE SHOW!!!!

So now, we are 28 peoples!!!!!  PLease ask your friends, relatives, etc
etc....

Ok so leave me your name, number of people and when you are expecting the
show

CIao

Francis


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) The Stickers sticks and sticks
Date: 29 Aug 1997 21:47:37 -0400 (EDT)


Hey Fans, here is the list for the sticker

THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE IF YOU ARE NOT ON THIS LIST!

10$ per 100. + shipping

Francis                          600                 [e-mail]
tom norman               300
Rod                           100                 [e-mail]
Jeff                            200                 [e-mail]
(Harding Jeff)
Dave Krupla              300                 ElKrupla
wolfgang                   200                 [e-mail]
Simon                        200                 [e-mail]
Jeff                            200                 [e-mail]
vince                          600
                [e-mail]
frank                          100                 [e-mail]
Eric soderblom           100                 [e-mail] (Eric W.
Soderblom)
Gregor                       100                 [e-mail]
(Gregor Watson)
Laura                         500                 [e-mail]
Trena                         100                [e-mail]
(Trena Brantley)
Richard Holdman        100                 [e-mail] (Richard
Holdman)
Jon Stanley                100                 [e-mail] (Jon
Stanley)
Senz                          100                 [e-mail] (Steven
Enz)
Woody Zenfell            100                 [e-mail]
(Woody Zenfell)
Myke                         200                 [e-mail] (LORD
HASENPFEFFER)
Angie                        100                 [e-mail]
(Angela Tooley)
Christopher Frey        100                 [e-mail] (Christopher
Edward Frey)
Bill Perrin                  100                 [e-mail] (William G.
Perrin III)
Keith Walker              200                 [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Dave                          100                [e-mail]
Dale Plantz                100               [e-mail] (Dale A.
Plantz)

TOTAL                  4 9 0 0



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) Sideways
Date: 29 Aug 1997 23:31:05 -0500


I must admit some confusion, myself.  Which song is "most disturbing"?
Frankly, I believe that Sideways will age the least of all the MWH
albums.  And as for the album's strange feel, well, I believe that the
lyrics to the title song say it all.  "Here's looking at you. . . ."

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LORD HASENPFEFFER <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Sideways
Date: 30 Aug 1997 01:21:12 -0400 (EDT)


I've only had "Sideways" on CD for a short time, but I have to say that
I think "Life After Diamond Head" is the best song on it next to the
title track.

Myke


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Causer <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Getting Sideways in the UK
Date: 30 Aug 1997 10:48:23 GMT


Hi All,

Quick question for the UK list members.=20
Where is the best place to get Sideways at a REASONABLE price?
Looking thru the web based shops, best Ive found is about 18 UK
pounds.
How different is Sideways from the other MWH's LP's?=20

Thanks

Mark


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jupiter Eight)
Subject: Re: (hats) Miscellaneous t
Date: 30 Aug 1997 09:46:52 -0400


On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 14:41:58 -0700 Eric Soderblom
<[e-mail]> writes:

>C)  I would be very interested in anyones stories about reaction to
>wearing their Hats T's in public.  I have personally got some
>interesting reactions.


I wear mine all the time. The stupidest response:

"No Charlie Chaplins?"

Rod


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jupiter Eight)
Subject: Re: (hats) IVAN CONCERT
Date: 30 Aug 1997 10:01:12 -0400


On Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:46:13 -0400 (EDT) [e-mail] (Angela
Tooley) writes:
>I have an image in my head that is something like this:  30 to 40 list
>members
>and their spouses in a nice-looking hall, sort of like a VFW or
>American Legion
>hall (of course, it would be the Canadian equivalent to this), with
>good acous-
>tics, and it must have some sort of a stage area.


The way I imagine it...the concert could be held outdoors at the site of
the Safety Dance video.

Rod


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) See you later!
Date: 30 Aug 1997 11:12:52 -0400 (EDT)


Well, as much as I've enjoyed being on this list, I have to drop out for a
while. Things have just become too busy to keep up on so much email, so I'm
dropping off my lists. I'll probably be back later this year. Thanks for
proving to my wife that I'm not the only MWH fan.
-Andrew Pepoy



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (will finn)
Subject: (hats) sideways...and then
Date: 30 Aug 1997 11:54:21 -0500 (CDT)


Okay yooze guys...you're forcing me to look silly here, but in my my best
Charlie Chan accent "In the song KENBARBIELOVE, the second paragraph reads,
..i've had jesus christ on the bathroom wall with dayglo worms crawling up
his balls" now I ask you how that doesn't conjure up a disturbing image, I
maybe agnostic, but when I first read those lyrics, I got a little bit
quessy with the lack of repect for the "man on d'cross!" of course the whole
song seems to be about a bad drug experience so perhaps in that context it
makes sense, btw, this song could almost be covered by the man in black,
"Johnny Cash", or Mr. Ed ha ha! And I don't care what ya say..that
goldfinger baby is FREAKY!!!! ha ha!!
I do like most of the album though... you know, I'd love to hear Ivan do
another Beatle song MWH style, in that soft PGTW voice and techno horns he
should do
"GOODMORNING, GOODMORNING" from Sgt.Peppers Lonely... can't you hear it ?
"i've got nothing to say but it's okay...goodmorning,goodmornng,goodmorning-GA!"
...and here's to you SIDEWAYS! (and just what does that imply? ha ha...here
we go again, hey, is that church lady over there? ha ha!!!)



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hiram Lester, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: Hello!
Date: 30 Aug 1997 14:11:50 -0500 (CDT)


On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, cjp wrote:

>   This is my first posting to the group. It;s really great to discover that
> there really are other people out there who still appreciate MWH. But anyway,
> just to get it out of the way, here's my
> this-is-my-first-post-please-answer-my-silly-question question. What does
> anyone know about "Editions of You" on the 2 new comps? It's not on any of the
> other albums, it's not even written by MWH. I'd imagine there's some fabulous
> story behind the inclusion of this.... love to hear it!

Will's already told you part of the story behind this song.  The rest of
the story is that it was intended to be released on Folk of the Eighties
Part III, and wasn't ready by the time the album was released, so it was
never released until Collection.

   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
   | Hiram W. Lester, Jr.               | E-Mail: [e-mail]    |
   | Computer Science                   | Home page:                    |
   | Middle Tennessee State University  |   http://pobox.com/~hwlester/ |
   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hiram Lester, Jr." <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Re: sideways...and then
Date: 30 Aug 1997 14:44:33 -0500 (CDT)


On Sat, 30 Aug 1997, will finn wrote:

> Okay yooze guys...you're forcing me to look silly here, but in my my best
> Charlie Chan accent "In the song KENBARBIELOVE, the second paragraph reads,
> ..i've had jesus christ on the bathroom wall with dayglo worms crawling up
> his balls" now I ask you how that doesn't conjure up a disturbing image, I
> maybe agnostic, but when I first read those lyrics, I got a little bit
> quessy with the lack of repect for the "man on d'cross!" of course the whole

Yeah, I'm not crazy about that part either.  The song is not really all
that great anyway, and that part absolutely drives me crazy.  I hate the
line in "The Spell" that disturbed others, but the song is good and has a
catchy tune...

> ...and here's to you SIDEWAYS! (and just what does that imply? ha ha...here
> we go again, hey, is that church lady over there? ha ha!!!)

Heheh... I've thought about that one a few times... :)

   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
   | Hiram W. Lester, Jr.               | E-Mail: [e-mail]    |
   | Computer Science                   | Home page:                    |
   | Middle Tennessee State University  |   http://pobox.com/~hwlester/ |
   +------------------------------------+-------------------------------+



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) contract?
Date: 30 Aug 1997 17:31:29 -0400


>old stuff! We will take in consideration when will be the time to sign the
>contract!

A contract?  With who?  Tox Records, the concert hall, or all of us?

I just had an idea which I don't think will work.  For those of us who can't
make it to Montreal, how about broadcasting it on the WWW?  Far fetched
idea, I know.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Pip Ogden)
Subject: Re: (hats) contract?
Date: 30 Aug 1997 21:35:54 GMT


On Sat, 30 Aug 1997 17:31:29 -0400, you wrote:

>I just had an idea which I don't think will work.  For those of us who =
can't
>make it to Montreal, how about broadcasting it on the WWW?  Far fetched
>idea, I know.

Not that far fetched, earlier this year a friend married an Australian
and they relayed the wedding back to Australia via the web!

Mind you, it was a one to one link, goodness knows how you do a
multicast!!


Apocalypse Computing Limited, Registered in England No 3175450
2 Hampton Street, King Cross, HALIFAX, West Yorkshire, HX1 3SB


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Your Own Private Ivan
Date: 30 Aug 1997 18:01:24 -0400 (EDT)


List members,

Just because I like to complicate things...I was wondering if we could
include any other famous Canadian artists from the Montreal area for our
planned show...Sort of as an opening act kind of thing???  I know that there
is an artist in a similiar situation as Ivan who calls his band Strange
Advance (help me out here, Senz).  He is now solo but still attempting a
comeback... Just a suggestion.  Any other similiar musical talent would be
great.  Hey, maybe there is a list member who is looking for a break?

Well,  just thought that I would throw that out there...

Brad Day
Atlanta, GA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Daniele Rossi <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) most disturbing
Date: 30 Aug 1997 18:36:24 -0400



>I must admit some confusion, myself.  Which song is "most disturbing"?

For me, it's "I Sing Last/Not For Tears" of all songs.  I love the melody,
etc but one day I was trying to figure out what the lyrics meant and came up
with an interpretation; Quebec seperation.  I am most likely analyzing it
too much, but from the song I got Ivan saying something along the lines of
the present youth in Quebec will decide on Canada's future (on a referendum?
Economy will change?), "soon they'll be older" (Politics will change?) "then
again so will we"(those who fought for secession in the 60s and 70s....the
fight's not over). Like I said, it's just an interpretation.  But now
everytime I hear that song I am reminded of the last referendum.  How the
result was too close, the mess our Prime Minister almost (or did) cause, how
(I think) nobody's learned anything since then, and how the issue hasn't
been resolved after all these years (1980 for instance).  But at the same
time I remember how it was done democratically instead of a civil war like
in other nations around the world.

Just out of curiosity, I'd love to know the group's ideas on the nation's
unity crisis.  I know politics is a sensitive issue, but I've always
wondered what ideas they had on it.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The August issue of my SpAsTiCkS! Online Comic Book is up at
http://www.interlog.com/~daniele
This month's title: "Doc McGurgle's Babylonian Lizard Tooth Oil"

Be sure to hit the reload button if you see the previous
issue!





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (hats) Our Concert?!
Date: 30 Aug 1997 23:10:00 -0400 (EDT)


In a message dated 97-08-30 07:47:14 EDT, you write:

<<
 In June, there will be two great festivals in Montreal:  Les
 Francopholies (a french music and cultural festival) and the Montreal
 International Jazz Festival. That would be a great time for everyone! >>


June is by far and away the best time for me.  It's next to impossible to get
away during the school year.
Dave K



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From: [e-mail] (Keith Walker)
Subject: (hats) KENBARBIELOVE
Date: 31 Aug 1997 00:23:00 -0500


Actually, I have always liked this song -- worms and all.  Yes, the
imagry is disturbing, but I believe that this was intended. . .
Honestly, I figured that everyone was talking about "Fall Down Gently"
or "Lost Forever", both songs which sound innocuous enough but become
rather depressing, in the long run. . . .  At any rate, I have found
myself wishing that my local radio stations would pick this song up and
play it instead of Aqua's "The Barbie Song", which is about the
stupidest piece of dreck that I have ever heard!  Has this made its way
into anyone else's airwaves?

Yours Sincerely,
Wasting Away


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From: [e-mail] (Jupiter Eight)
Subject: Re: (hats) sideways...and then
Date: 31 Aug 1997 20:40:01 -0400


On Sat, 30 Aug 1997 11:54:21 -0500 (CDT) [e-mail] (will
finn) writes:

>...and here's to you SIDEWAYS! (and just what does that imply? ha
>ha...here
>we go again, hey, is that church lady over there? ha ha!!!)


Ok Will...I'll bite...just what <does> "Here's lookin at you sideways..."
imply?

Rod


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric W. Soderblom" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (hats) Greatest Hats
Date: 31 Aug 1997 23:17:34 -0700 (PDT)


Hey all,
Went to Circuit City yesterday to get printer paper.  Noticed CD's on my way
out and decided to check them out. Well, looked in misc. M's and found what
I thought was 'Collection' I almost flipped past it when I noticed the
'Import' sticker.  It was Greatest Hats and it was $11.99.  I was pretty
happy.  Not rare by any stretch of the imagination, but is is REAL cool to
find MWH stuff that I don't have yet.  Thought that I would share my excitement.

-Eric
+===============================================+
|*Eric W. Soderblom     *Home: 707 746-7582     |
|P.O. Box 488           *Cell: 707 494-3411     |
|Benicia, CA 94510                              |
|                                               |
|*MWH Index http://home.earthlink.net/~soderblom|
+===============================================+



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