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2002-11-02
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From: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com (glencook-fans-digest)
To: glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: glencook-fans-digest V1 #226
Reply-To: glencook-fans-digest
Sender: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
glencook-fans-digest Saturday, November 2 2002 Volume 01 : Number 226
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 20:11:07 -0600
From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology)
Derrill,
There are *many* books where no one is looking for a creator (or thinks
they know of one)--many of Cook's among them!--and, no, the people are
generally not in the least bit more "unreal" than those in other
fictional universes.
You pays your money and you takes your choice--whether we're talking
about choice of belief/non-belief or choice of fictions to read.
Steve
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 23:32:58 -0800
From: Joe Murphy <bagaele@netzero.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Back on Cook
- --------------FECB7328A871C32F25B36E08
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Axemaster2001@aol.com wrote:
> i read Feist a long long long time ago, when it first came out.
> enjoyed it a lot, but felt the follow up books just didnt do the
> initial story justice... kinda like Dune, the follow up stopped me
> reading the whole series
>
>
>
> Axemaster 61 Cleric
> Lilaxe 58 Warrior
>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you thought the later books were a let down, down read the crap his
son wrote. I tried one of them (House Atreides) and it really sucked. He
had Bene Gesserit laughing and giggling like schoolchildren. I refused
to finish that book, stopped 3 chapters shy of the ending.
J Murphy
- --------------FECB7328A871C32F25B36E08
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<p>Axemaster2001@aol.com wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>i read Feist a long
long long time ago, when it first came out. enjoyed it a lot, but felt
the follow up books just didnt do the initial story justice... kinda like
Dune, the follow up stopped me reading the whole series</font></font>
<br>
<br>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1><a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster</a>
61 Cleric</font></font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-1><a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe</a>
58 Warrior</font></font></font>
<br> </blockquote>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<p> If you thought the later books were a let down, down read the
crap his son wrote. I tried one of them (House Atreides) and it really
sucked. He had Bene Gesserit laughing and giggling like schoolchildren.
I refused to finish that book, stopped 3 chapters shy of the ending.
<p> J Murphy
<br>
<br> </html>
- --------------FECB7328A871C32F25B36E08--
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 14:15:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Fraser=20Ronald?= <stelm7@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Kina is realy Kali
--- Michele Riccio <mr1@rcosta.com> wrote: > On 31
Oct 2002 at 10:55, Derrill "Kisc" Guilbert
> wrote
>
>
> In answer to your semi-questions. Samhain is the
> Celtic
> celebration, which became Halloween (how apropos
> that today is
> October 31...). As it was explained to me - Samhain
> is the day on
> which the "curtain" between the living and the dead
> is thinnest.
>
> The Celts do/did (?) have a "death" god - or Lord of
> the underworld,
> Anwen (sp?) (that's the Welsh version - I can't
> remember the Irish).
> Also - Mannannan (sp?) is considered the Lord of Tir
> na n'Og, which
> is where all good Celts go when they die ;-)
>
I'd be interested in a reference for this. I've heard
of Annwn used as the name of an underworld, but
references to it seem to be restricted to later,
Arthurian works, which, while they might have been
based on true, mythological figures, would tend to
warp those figures to match the Christian
world/underworld view. I'm not doubting your
statement, I'm just curious.
Also, while Annwn has a ruler, he does not have the
same function as a death god. Manannan mac Lir was
both the ruler of Tir na n-Og and a god of weather and
the sea. Also, not really a death god. Though Tir na
n-Og was an underworld, Manannan had no choice in who
came, nor did he have any power to cause or withhold
death.
Just my assumptions based on my readings. I would love
(that's not sarcasm, I'm serious) some references to
learn more. I do admit to a blind=spot with the
Brythonnic myths.
Sorry to drag this more off topic.
=====
Fraser Ronald
"Sword's Edge" (http://www.swordsedge.net/)
AtFantasy Alliance Fiction Archive (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction)
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:27:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Igor Filippov <igor@osc.edu>
Subject: RE: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology)
Don't speak for everybody Jordan. If you don't care, it's your business.
On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Jordan Raney wrote:
> >>I joined this list because it was about Glen Cooks books and novels<<
>
> Then talk about them. Not your beliefs. Again, no one cares.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of
> Axemaster2001@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:02 PM
> To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu
> Mythology)
>
>
>
>
> >>
> Sounds like a double standard to me, Igor.
>
> As far as I know, religious belief or lack thereof has never been a
> determining factor in the overall intelligence or strength of a person.
> Spouting ill-conceived opinion for no other reason than to insult a fair
> percentage of the world population does, however, speak volumes about the
> person's stability and maturity. This is just as true for someone like
> Pat
> Buchanan, the Pope, or Axemaster, the AOL user.
> <<
>
> "ill-conceived opinion" - "insult a fair percentage of the world
> population"
>
> Why is my opinon ill-conceived. It is my opinion. I never once told Derril
> his opinion was wrong, he stated his, quoted below, (in the off-topic post
> that started all this).
>
> Why is this a double standard? Or are you referring to the person who
> attacked me and claimed I must also be a democrat, and then someone said "oh
> dont make this about politics too, im gonna unsubscribe"?
>
> I dont care who you worship, how you worship or what you worship. What
> worries me though is that some of you who do worship something are so
> insulted, so threatened, so perturbed by those who have a differing opinion.
>
> To say my "stability and maturity" also revolve around my adherence to
> your beliefs speaks volumes to me.
>
> I joined this list because it was about Glen Cooks books and novels. Most
> of these books are fantasy and science fiction based. In the fantasy novels
> alternate gods, demi-gods, mythological religons and more are everyday
> events. Someone brought up the close similarities of the Books of South
> religious structure and how close it tied into the real world Hindu and
> South-East Asian religons. From that someone else stated:
>
> <<Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would
> need to
> rationalize humanity's reliance on religion.
> >> - from Derrills email
>
> Which lead to my email.
>
> I had thought I was on a list of like minded Cook fans, and in my (normal)
> experience fantasy and sci-fi fans are a little more open minded.
>
> I guess I was wrong.
>
>
> Derrils full post:
> >>>
>
> I'm not sure what you're asking.
> You see, as a man with religious convictions, I have a difficult time
> answering other than: any attempt to rationalize the human reliance on
> religion is misguided. There is a God. We must learn to rely on Him.
> There are a lot of people who bury themselves (or are buried by others) in
> rhetoric and zeal, and pull their convictions so far from anything to do
> with today's reality.
> There are a ton of people who are waiting to take advantage of whoever
> they
> can... some people are too trusting, too blind of faith.
> I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka the
> Mormons. I very strongly believe that what I'm taught is as correct as it
> gets, on Earth. However, I've been overheard to say, from time to time, "I
> would enjoy church a lot more if it wasn't for all the damn Mormons." Some
> people go to church for the wrong reason; some people go to church for the
> right reasons, but don't live their convictions in any meaningful way.
> Some
> people -- me, for instance -- are closet misanthropes and couldn't be
> pleased even if you put a cherry on top.
> (Most of us, of course, have every one of these flaws in greater or lesser
> degrees. People often get categorized by what you see them doing when
> you're
> in a ba mood.)
> All of these (and many other) sorts of things lead to people who don't
> believe in a deity at all. If, for extreme example, Father Clemente raped
> you when you were a teenager, then anything he says he believes must be
> absolute crap.
> Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would need
> to
> rationalize humanity's reliance on religion.
> Folks who believe in deity would answer similarly to me: Well, He's there,
> isn't He? What's to rationalize? Humanity is drawn by an inbuilt tendency
> to
> search for the Creator. A very polite "duh" would seem the best answer
> here
> :)
> So... Uhm... can you clarify a little bit what you are asking? I rather
> suspect that my answer has nothing to do with the question you asked, as
> opposed to the question I read.
> Derrill
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 11:42:42 -0700
From: "Derrill \"Kisc\" Guilbert" <NinjaSpam2@InsaneNinjaHero.com>
Subject: RE: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology)
Yeah, you know, for some reason I'm sitting over here thinking "all peasants
worship the god of the harvest or the goddess of fertility or something, of
course, because they are stupid peasants". (I was counting people who have
found a deity among those who are "searching for eternity", if you
weeeeell.)
What a moronic thing to think, really. What am I, but a techno-peasant?
Well, maybe a techo-serf, but same diff.
Heh.
Derrill
|-----Original Message-----
|From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
|[mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Stacey
|Harris
|Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:11 PM
|To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
|Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu
|Mythology)
|
|
|Derrill,
|
|There are *many* books where no one is looking for a creator (or thinks
|they know of one)--many of Cook's among them!--and, no, the people are
|generally not in the least bit more "unreal" than those in other
|fictional universes.
|
|You pays your money and you takes your choice--whether we're talking
|about choice of belief/non-belief or choice of fictions to read.
|
|Steve
|
|
|=======================================================================
| To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
| visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
|
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:02:26 -0800 (PST)
From: scott havner <templar8777@yahoo.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Rligious opinions
Recently I've been seeing some things on here that
really spool me up. One is the name calling and finger
pointing over religion. I am in the US, I don't know
about the rest of y'all but in the US we have freedom
of religion. If you can't play nice and be tolerant of
the views of others, the unplug your computer, put on
some shoes, and go stand on the corner down in the
dreams district( yes right beside Barking Dog Amato)
and voice your opinions on religion there...NOT
HERE!!!
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 12:16:00 -0800 (PST)
From: scott havner <templar8777@yahoo.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Cooks religous reality
Religion is one of the things that make Cook's work so
vivid and real. If any of you have ever been
overseas, you've noticed that religion plays a huge
role in many different cultures. Much more so than
here in the States. Cook has taken that fact and
blended it into his books to give them a feel of
reality. And while he never comes right out and makes
a direct connection with any known religions of our
world, there is enough similarity for the reader to
already have something of a feel for the religion.
Also the fact that in many of his books the hero is an
agnostic( or at least has a ho hum attitude towards
the gods), this also adds a bit of reality, most
soldiers who are good at what they do, and have done
it for a while, tend to lose touch with the religions
they grew up with, there are very few exceptions. And
I'm not talking about Army or Marines, I'm speaking of
elite units. After someone has been exposed to death
and destruction over and over again, one tends to lose
the belief that there is a higher power or that that
higher power cares. Now these are just my opininions,
so don't burn me at the stake and send me nastyt grams
and cry cause I put religion down, I am just stating
an opinion of things I have observed in the last 15 years.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 00:30:51 EST
From: Wellyrook@aol.com
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cooks religous reality
> Religion is one of the things that make Cook's work so
> vivid and real.
> After someone has been exposed to death
> and destruction over and over again, one tends to lose
> the belief that there is a higher power or that that
> higher power cares.
Yes, I agree on this point: Cook did a good job of persuading me that the
phrase "there are no atheists in foxholes" is most likely literally incorrect.
In a real foxhole, having just seen his fellow man's head become torn off by
a piece of flying steel, I wonder if even the most dedicated religious
worshipper of any creed can NOT doubt the existence of his particular god(s).
I suppose it is in the aftermath of an experience like that when a
"dedicated" worshipper is either reborn (having been made stronger by the
experience) or lost (having been overwhelmed by the experience).
I am aware that that phrase is mostly used by people to criticize those who
become "suddenly religious" during trying periods in their lives. But
literally, it probably isn't true all the time.
Side note: I'm not a religious person because I want to get an eternal
reward, or because I want to avoid eternal damnation, or because I'm told to
worship. I am religious for a simple reason. I love my God. And I show it by
being genuinely concerned about others, their welfare, and working with them
for the common good.
- -Welly
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------------------------------
End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #226
***********************************
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