ftp.xmission.com

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ ftp.xmission.com / 2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar / ftp.xmission.com / pub / lists / glencook-fans / archive / v01.n223 < prev next >

Wrap

Internet Message Format | 2002-10-31 | 48KB

From: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com (glencook-fans-digest) To: glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: glencook-fans-digest V1 #223 Reply-To: glencook-fans-digest Sender: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk glencook-fans-digest Friday, November 1 2002 Volume 01 : Number 223 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:45:31 EST From: Axemaster2001@aol.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) - --part1_68.280a5cae.2af417bb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/1/02 1:34:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, jrraney@attbi.com writes: > > I am intolerant because I uttered an objection to having myself and > billions > of others categorized as "weak" simply because of our beliefs? It seems > that you are the intolerant one. Let me guess, you are also a staunch > democrat. > > Not that it has any bearing, but I'm not. Funny that again you attack me. You speak of "strength" yet show no inner strength of your own. The strongest beliefs should need no defending. - --part1_68.280a5cae.2af417bb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>In a message dated 11/1/02 1:34:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, jrraney@attbi.com writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> I am intolerant because I uttered an objection to having myself and billions of others categorized as "weak" simply because of our beliefs? It seems that you are the intolerant one. Let me guess, you are also a staunch democrat. </BLOCKQUOTE> Not that it has any bearing, but I'm not. Funny that again you attack me. You speak of "strength" yet show no inner strength of your own. The strongest beliefs should need no defending. </HTML> - --part1_68.280a5cae.2af417bb_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:48:10 EST From: LadyRavven@aol.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) - --part1_112.19d10530.2af4185a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit why should i take it that way...to me beliefs are mine, for my reasons....i don't know that i have words to even try to say why...nor do i feel the need to. but even being Pagan, I see the similarities in many religions. (and even though for the most part I am spiritual) I at times feel that there is no one there or just rather well..."grey" for lack of better wording(not enough coffee)about religion in general....(hence why I am Lady on AOL and Soulcatcher on ICQ..lol).... as for a writers beliefs...I know from writing myself, There are time that i take from my life and beliefs, but more often than not i take from what i see around me...I learn about it and think damn that might just make and interesting fubar for the people i write about...so it maybe be a person experince and belief for him...maybe not... someone ask next Con. Lady Ravven ICQ: Soulcatcher - --part1_112.19d10530.2af4185a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>why should i take it that way...to me beliefs are mine, for my reasons....i don't know that i have words to even try to say why...nor do i feel the need to. but even being Pagan, I see the similarities in many religions. (and even though for the most part I am spiritual) I at times feel that there is no one there or just rather well..."grey" for lack of better wording(not enough coffee)about religion in general....(hence why I am Lady on AOL and Soulcatcher on ICQ..lol).... as for a writers beliefs...I know from writing myself, There are time that i take from my life and beliefs, but more often than not i take from what i see around me...I learn about it and think damn that might just make and interesting fubar for the people i write about...so it maybe be a person experince and belief for him...maybe not... someone ask next Con. Lady Ravven ICQ: Soulcatcher</HTML> - --part1_112.19d10530.2af4185a_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:48:51 -0700 From: "Kisc Kempson" <ninjaspam2@insaneninjahero.com> Subject: RE: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) Hey, can't we all just get along? I think it is time to let this thread die... we all agree that Cook is great. We don't agree about much else. I wish the guy that started this would respond to the questions I asked, him explaining a little more about what he meant with regards to Cook. Derrill > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Primalchrome > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:40 AM > To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu > Mythology) > > > Sounds like a double standard to me, Igor. > > As far as I know, religious belief or lack thereof has never been a > determining factor in the overall intelligence or strength of a person. > Spouting ill-conceived opinion for no other reason than to insult a fair > percentage of the world population does, however, speak volumes about the > person's stability and maturity. This is just as true for > someone like Pat > Buchanan, the Pope, or Axemaster, the AOL user. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Igor Filippov" <igor@osc.edu> > To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 11:15 AM > Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu > Mythology) > > > > > > In case you still reading this list... > > I don't care about repuclicans or democrats alike, I'm Russian citizen, > > we have a whole bunch of our own parties there (not that they're all > > that different). But what do you call "bashing" ? Don't you see a > > difference between statements "I think religion is for the weak" > > (I think candies are for the kids, but it doesn't mean adults > can't enjoy > > them too...) and "You're an idiot" ? > > > > Igor > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Chris Holko wrote: > > > > > > > > > He wasn't actually calling anyone "weak", he merely commented on > > > > what he considers to be the role of religion in society. > > > > I think your calling people idiots is quite out of line. > > > > Please try to express your thoughts in a more appropriate manner. > > > > And the jib about democrats has no place on this list (or anywhere > > > > in the mature society). > > > > > > (lurker here) > > > > > > Oh I get it, as long as you bash religious folks you are okay, don't > touch > > > the democrats. > > > > > > Sheesh.. time to unsubscribe to this list. > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:01:34 EST From: Axemaster2001@aol.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) - --part1_c1.2998cbf1.2af41b7e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Sounds like a double standard to me, Igor. As far as I know, religious belief or lack thereof has never been a determining factor in the overall intelligence or strength of a person. Spouting ill-conceived opinion for no other reason than to insult a fair percentage of the world population does, however, speak volumes about the person's stability and maturity.=A0 This is just as true for someone like Pa= t Buchanan, the Pope, or Axemaster, the AOL user. << "ill-conceived opinion" - "insult a fair percentage of the world population" Why is my opinon ill-conceived. It is my opinion. I never once told Derril=20 his opinion was wrong, he stated his, quoted below, (in the off-topic post=20 that started all this).=20 Why is this a double standard? Or are you referring to the person who=20 attacked me and claimed I must also be a democrat, and then someone said "oh= =20 dont make this about politics too, im gonna unsubscribe"?=20 I dont care who you worship, how you worship or what you worship. What=20 worries me though is that some of you who do worship something are so=20 insulted, so threatened, so perturbed by those who have a differing opinion. To say my "stability and maturity" also revolve around my adherence to your=20 beliefs speaks volumes to me.=20 I joined this list because it was about Glen Cooks books and novels. Most of= =20 these books are fantasy and science fiction based. In the fantasy novels=20 alternate gods, demi-gods, mythological religons and more are everyday=20 events. Someone brought up the close similarities of the Books of South=20 religious structure and how close it tied into the real world Hindu and=20 South-East Asian religons. From that someone else stated:=20 <<Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would need=20 to rationalize humanity's reliance on religion. >> - from Derrills email Which lead to my email. I had thought I was on a list of like minded Cook fans, and in my (normal)=20 experience fantasy and sci-fi fans are a little more open minded. I guess I was wrong. Derrils full post: >>> I'm not sure what you're asking. You see, as a man with religious convictions, I have a difficult time answering other than: any attempt to rationalize the human reliance on religion is misguided. There is a God. We must learn to rely on Him. There are a lot of people who bury themselves (or are buried by others) in rhetoric and zeal, and pull their convictions so far from anything to do with today's reality. There are a ton of people who are waiting to take advantage of whoever they can... some people are too trusting, too blind of faith. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka the Mormons. I very strongly believe that what I'm taught is as correct as it gets, on Earth. However, I've been overheard to say, from time to time, "I would enjoy church a lot more if it wasn't for all the damn Mormons." Some people go to church for the wrong reason; some people go to church for the right reasons, but don't live their convictions in any meaningful way. Some people -- me, for instance -- are closet misanthropes and couldn't be pleased even if you put a cherry on top. (Most of us, of course, have every one of these flaws in greater or lesser degrees. People often get categorized by what you see them doing when you're in a ba mood.) All of these (and many other) sorts of things lead to people who don't believe in a deity at all. If, for extreme example, Father Clemente raped you when you were a teenager, then anything he says he believes must be absolute crap. Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would need to rationalize humanity's reliance on religion. Folks who believe in deity would answer similarly to me: Well, He's there, isn't He? What's to rationalize? Humanity is drawn by an inbuilt tendency to search for the Creator. A very polite "duh" would seem the best answer here :) So... Uhm... can you clarify a little bit what you are asking? I rather suspect that my answer has nothing to do with the question you asked, as opposed to the question I read. Derrill - --part1_c1.2998cbf1.2af41b7e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> >> Sounds like a double standard to me, Igor. As far as I know, religious belief or lack thereof has never been a determining factor in the overall intelligence or strength of a person. Spouting ill-conceived opinion for no other reason than to insult a fair percentage of the world population does, however, speak volumes about the<BR= > person's stability and maturity.=A0 This is just as true for someone like Pa= t Buchanan, the Pope, or Axemaster, the AOL user. << "ill-conceived opinion" - "insult a fair percentage of the world population"= Why is my opinon ill-conceived. It is my opinion. I never once told Derril h= is opinion was wrong, he stated his, quoted below, (in the off-topic post th= at started all this). Why is this a double standard? Or are you referring to the person who attack= ed me and claimed I must also be a democrat, and then someone said "oh dont=20= make this about politics too, im gonna unsubscribe"? I dont care who you worship, how you worship or what you worship. What worri= es me though is that some of you who do worship something are so insulted, s= o threatened, so perturbed by those who have a differing opinion. To say my "stability and maturity" also revolve around my adherence to your=20= beliefs speaks volumes to me. I joined this list because it was about Glen Cooks books and novels. Most of= these books are fantasy and science fiction based. In the fantasy novels al= ternate gods, demi-gods, mythological religons and more are everyday events.= Someone brought up the close similarities of the Books of South religious s= tructure and how close it tied into the real world Hindu and South-East Asia= n religons. From that someone else stated: <<Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would= need to rationalize humanity's reliance on religion. >> - from Derrills email Which lead to my email. I had thought I was on a list of like minded Cook fans, and in my (normal) e= xperience fantasy and sci-fi fans are a little more open minded. I guess I was wrong. Derrils full post: >>> I'm not sure what you're asking. You see, as a man with religious convictions, I have a difficult time answering other than: any attempt to rationalize the human reliance on religion is misguided. There is a God. We must learn to rely on Him. There are a lot of people who bury themselves (or are buried by others) in<B= R> rhetoric and zeal, and pull their convictions so far from anything to do with today's reality. There are a ton of people who are waiting to take advantage of whoever they<= BR> can... some people are too trusting, too blind of faith. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka the Mormons. I very strongly believe that what I'm taught is as correct as it<BR= > gets, on Earth. However, I've been overheard to say, from time to time, "I<B= R> would enjoy church a lot more if it wasn't for all the damn Mormons." Some<B= R> people go to church for the wrong reason; some people go to church for the<B= R> right reasons, but don't live their convictions in any meaningful way. Some<= BR> people -- me, for instance -- are closet misanthropes and couldn't be pleased even if you put a cherry on top. (Most of us, of course, have every one of these flaws in greater or lesser<B= R> degrees. People often get categorized by what you see them doing when you're= in a ba mood.) All of these (and many other) sorts of things lead to people who don't believe in a deity at all. If, for extreme example, Father Clemente raped<BR= > you when you were a teenager, then anything he says he believes must be absolute crap. Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would need to= rationalize humanity's reliance on religion. Folks who believe in deity would answer similarly to me: Well, He's there,<B= R> isn't He? What's to rationalize? Humanity is drawn by an inbuilt tendency to= search for the Creator. A very polite "duh" would seem the best answer here<= BR> :) So... Uhm... can you clarify a little bit what you are asking? I rather suspect that my answer has nothing to do with the question you asked, as opposed to the question I read. Derrill </HTML> - --part1_c1.2998cbf1.2af41b7e_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:14:26 -0700 From: "Kisc Kempson" <ninjaspam2@insaneninjahero.com> Subject: RE: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) >Axemaster said: >Why is my opinon ill-conceived. It is my opinion. I never once told Derril his opinion was wrong, he stated his, quoted below, (in the off-topic post that started all this). Hey, it wasn't /that/ off-topic ;) > ><<Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would need to >rationalize humanity's reliance on religion. >>> - from Derrills email Does anyone disagree with this statement? I mean, seriously. I think that is completely accurate. If you're religious, that is a non-issue, right? If I'm wrong, I'm asking you to correct me here, please. > >Which lead to my email. > >I had thought I was on a list of like minded Cook fans, and in my (normal) experience fantasy and sci-fi fans are a little more open minded. > >I guess I was wrong. > No, you're right, by and large. It turns out there are a bunch of people in a bad mood on here too, however. You know, the funniest part abou this whole thread is that the AOL user is the rational one. Sure, his opinion might be considered a little inflammatory, but the AOL user is the rational one. Don't you see how silly that makes you look if you're not rational?! Derrill PS I am Kisc, and I am Derrill. Sometimes I forget which way I'm closing on a particular list. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:20:20 -0500 (EST) From: Igor Filippov <igor@osc.edu> Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) Him saying "I think religion is for the weak" was expressing his opinion about _religion_ not the people who're practicing it. The other guy saying "you're an idiot" is clearly a personal attack, not an expression of opinion about abstract issue. Where is the double standard ? I think the list is no place for personal attacks, but I like reading and discussing different opinions about abstract philosophical issues. The distinction sometimes may seem obscure, but if one cares to read verbatim what is being said, it isn't that difficult to differentiate between the two. Sincerely, Igor On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Primalchrome wrote: > Sounds like a double standard to me, Igor. > > As far as I know, religious belief or lack thereof has never been a > determining factor in the overall intelligence or strength of a person. > Spouting ill-conceived opinion for no other reason than to insult a fair > percentage of the world population does, however, speak volumes about the > person's stability and maturity. This is just as true for someone like Pat > Buchanan, the Pope, or Axemaster, the AOL user. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Igor Filippov" <igor@osc.edu> > To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com> > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 11:15 AM > Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) > > > > > > In case you still reading this list... > > I don't care about repuclicans or democrats alike, I'm Russian citizen, > > we have a whole bunch of our own parties there (not that they're all > > that different). But what do you call "bashing" ? Don't you see a > > difference between statements "I think religion is for the weak" > > (I think candies are for the kids, but it doesn't mean adults can't enjoy > > them too...) and "You're an idiot" ? > > > > Igor > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Chris Holko wrote: > > > > > > > > > He wasn't actually calling anyone "weak", he merely commented on > > > > what he considers to be the role of religion in society. > > > > I think your calling people idiots is quite out of line. > > > > Please try to express your thoughts in a more appropriate manner. > > > > And the jib about democrats has no place on this list (or anywhere > > > > in the mature society). > > > > > > (lurker here) > > > > > > Oh I get it, as long as you bash religious folks you are okay, don't > touch > > > the democrats. > > > > > > Sheesh.. time to unsubscribe to this list. > > > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:24:20 EST From: Axemaster2001@aol.com Subject: (glencook-fans) Back on Cook - --part1_10f.19713162.2af420d4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit back to the reason for the list.... *spoiler* anyone heard anything about a new Black Company book? The last one left everything at a point and time where either new adventures could be chronicled, orrrr we get to see from the eyes of Croaker the periods in history that so captivated him. Imagine new Black Company books about previous incarnations of the company....or even the birth of the Domination...that is what id vote for, a book all about how the Dominator came to power, the 10 who were taken and their early lives, etc etc <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster</A> 61 Cleric <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe</A> 58 Warrior - --part1_10f.19713162.2af420d4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>back to the reason for the list.... *spoiler* anyone heard anything about a new Black Company book? The last one left everything at a point and time where either new adventures could be chronicled, orrrr we get to see from the eyes of Croaker the periods in history that so captivated him. Imagine new Black Company books about previous incarnations of the company....or even the birth of the Domination...that is what id vote for, a book all about how the Dominator came to power, the 10 who were taken and their early lives, etc etc <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster</A> 61 Cleric <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe</A> 58 Warrior </HTML> - --part1_10f.19713162.2af420d4_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:26:27 -0800 From: Joe Murphy <bagaele@netzero.com> Subject: (glencook-fans) Mouse N children Spoiler for Starfishers/Shadowline . . . .. . . . . . . . Hi all Just rereading the series (guess I do a lot of that) and in Starfishers Mouse has a problem where a girl he has been with tells him shes pregnant. And he talks about how he doesn't know what to do, he has not been in this situation before. But doesn't he have a kid with Pollyana from Shadowline? Or (this could be neat) the kid from Pollyana is his dads so decides to play the Father since Gneaus is dead. Anyone? J Murphy ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:29:27 -0800 From: Joe Murphy <bagaele@netzero.com> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Back on Cook Someone who taled to Cook recently said that Glen plans moving forword with the Company. I am thinking this could be some stuff in one or more of the other worlds off the plain. Maybe even raiding back and forth or something. But I think it was also mentioned that he has another series to finish out forst, so it could be a while before the Black Co comes back on stage. J Murphy Axemaster2001@aol.com wrote: > back to the reason for the list.... > > *spoiler* > > anyone heard anything about a new Black Company book? The last one > left everything at a point and time where either new adventures could > be chronicled, orrrr we get to see from the eyes of Croaker the > periods in history that so captivated him. > > Imagine new Black Company books about previous incarnations of the > company....or even the birth of the Domination...that is what id vote > for, a book all about how the Dominator came to power, the 10 who were > taken and their early lives, etc etc > > > > Axemaster 61 Cleric > Lilaxe 58 Warrior > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 13:35:31 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Crust <crustj@ittc.pgh.wec.com> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Mouse N children Hi All - -spoiler space... From what I remember of Shadowline, Mouse does not have any children. Since he had just been recalled from the academy, and from what I remember of the time frame, I don't think there would I have been time. I will have to re-read it to see if it was his fathers child. On a related note to the mythologies threads, was anyone else fascinated by the way Shadowline retold Ragnarok in a science fiction setting? Jim C. - ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Fri Nov 1 13:27:25 2002 Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:26:27 -0800 From: Joe Murphy <bagaele@netzero.com> X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Subject: (glencook-fans) Mouse N children Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Lines: 28 Spoiler for Starfishers/Shadowline . . . .. . . . . . . . Hi all Just rereading the series (guess I do a lot of that) and in Starfishers Mouse has a problem where a girl he has been with tells him shes pregnant. And he talks about how he doesn't know what to do, he has not been in this situation before. But doesn't he have a kid with Pollyana from Shadowline? Or (this could be neat) the kid from Pollyana is his dads so decides to play the Father since Gneaus is dead. Anyone? J Murphy ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. - ----- End Included Message ----- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:37:02 -0600 From: "Primalchrome" <primalchrome@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C281A3.60D24300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *sigh* Allow me to spell it out to you. Why is my opinon ill-conceived. - It is no more ill conceived than the = following opinions : Germans are all anti-semites. Black people are lazy. White males are evil money grubbers. Muslims are all militant extremists. Meaning that they're ALL poorly thought out and highly insulting to the = target. Why is this a double standard? - Pay attention to the thread. I was = speaking ot Igor in that saying that slurring an entire political party, = calling a person an idiot, and insulting any adherent to religion are = all much in the same. To condemn one while condoning another is = exercising a double standard. What worries me though is that some of you who do worship something are = so insulted, so threatened, so perturbed by those who have a differing = opinion. - Once again, pay attention to the thread. No one is perturbed = that you have a differing opinion. People are pissed because you = insulted them. =20 To say my "stability and maturity" also revolve around my adherence to = your beliefs speaks volumes to me. - For the third time, pay attention. = I never insinuated anything of the sort. I don't really care about = people's beliefs so long as they do not threaten the rights of others. = My reference to your lack of stability and maturity had to do with your = spouting off a blatant insult at a sizeable percentage of this list. = Somehow I think a baptist preacher would be recieved in a similar = fashion if he attended temple and shouted out some blind dogma about = Jews going to hell. Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would = need to rationalize humanity's reliance on religion. - If this statement = is what got your panties in a wad, I really don't know what to say. If = you read it, it's a logical statement with little opinion. It's true, = the only people that would be interested in exploring humanities = obsession with deities would be those that do not adhere to a particular = religious belief. Those that have a religious belief system have = already come to terms with humanity's relationship with religion. I had thought I was on a list of like minded Cook fans, and in my = (normal) experience fantasy and sci-fi fans are a little more open = minded. I guess I was wrong. - No, you were correct. Fantasy and = SciFi fans are generally fairly openminded....but if a bull rampages in = a china shop, you shoot the bull, not admire the shards on the ground. = Similarly, if you walk into a conversation and lead off with,"Well, = you're all weak minded sheep, but I'll still favor you with my = presence..." you're really not going to be making any headway.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Axemaster2001@aol.com=20 To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu = Mythology) >> Sounds like a double standard to me, Igor. As far as I know, religious belief or lack thereof has never been a determining factor in the overall intelligence or strength of a = person. Spouting ill-conceived opinion for no other reason than to insult a = fair percentage of the world population does, however, speak volumes about = the person's stability and maturity. This is just as true for someone = like Pat Buchanan, the Pope, or Axemaster, the AOL user. << "ill-conceived opinion" - "insult a fair percentage of the world = population" Why is my opinon ill-conceived. It is my opinion. I never once told = Derril his opinion was wrong, he stated his, quoted below, (in the = off-topic post that started all this).=20 Why is this a double standard? Or are you referring to the person who = attacked me and claimed I must also be a democrat, and then someone said = "oh dont make this about politics too, im gonna unsubscribe"?=20 I dont care who you worship, how you worship or what you worship. What = worries me though is that some of you who do worship something are so = insulted, so threatened, so perturbed by those who have a differing = opinion. To say my "stability and maturity" also revolve around my adherence to = your beliefs speaks volumes to me.=20 I joined this list because it was about Glen Cooks books and novels. = Most of these books are fantasy and science fiction based. In the = fantasy novels alternate gods, demi-gods, mythological religons and more = are everyday events. Someone brought up the close similarities of the = Books of South religious structure and how close it tied into the real = world Hindu and South-East Asian religons. From that someone else = stated:=20 <<Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would = need to rationalize humanity's reliance on religion. >> - from Derrills email Which lead to my email. I had thought I was on a list of like minded Cook fans, and in my = (normal) experience fantasy and sci-fi fans are a little more open = minded. I guess I was wrong. Derrils full post: >>> I'm not sure what you're asking. You see, as a man with religious convictions, I have a difficult time answering other than: any attempt to rationalize the human reliance on religion is misguided. There is a God. We must learn to rely on Him. There are a lot of people who bury themselves (or are buried by = others) in rhetoric and zeal, and pull their convictions so far from anything to = do with today's reality. There are a ton of people who are waiting to take advantage of whoever = they can... some people are too trusting, too blind of faith. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, aka = the Mormons. I very strongly believe that what I'm taught is as correct as = it gets, on Earth. However, I've been overheard to say, from time to = time, "I would enjoy church a lot more if it wasn't for all the damn Mormons." = Some people go to church for the wrong reason; some people go to church for = the right reasons, but don't live their convictions in any meaningful way. = Some people -- me, for instance -- are closet misanthropes and couldn't be pleased even if you put a cherry on top. (Most of us, of course, have every one of these flaws in greater or = lesser degrees. People often get categorized by what you see them doing when = you're in a ba mood.) All of these (and many other) sorts of things lead to people who don't believe in a deity at all. If, for extreme example, Father Clemente = raped you when you were a teenager, then anything he says he believes must = be absolute crap. Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the folks who would = need to rationalize humanity's reliance on religion. Folks who believe in deity would answer similarly to me: Well, He's = there, isn't He? What's to rationalize? Humanity is drawn by an inbuilt = tendency to search for the Creator. A very polite "duh" would seem the best answer = here :) So... Uhm... can you clarify a little bit what you are asking? I = rather suspect that my answer has nothing to do with the question you asked, = as opposed to the question I read. Derrill - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C281A3.60D24300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>*sigh* Allow me to spell it out = to=20 you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is my opinon=20 ill-conceived. - It is no more ill conceived than the = following=20 opinions :</DIV> <DIV> = Germans are=20 all anti-semites.</DIV> <DIV> Black=20 people are lazy.</DIV> <DIV> = White males=20 are evil money grubbers.</DIV> <DIV> = Muslims are=20 all militant extremists.</DIV> <DIV>Meaning that they're ALL poorly thought = out and=20 highly insulting to the target.</DIV> <DIV>Why is this a = double=20 standard? - Pay attention to the thread. I was = speaking ot=20 Igor in that saying that slurring an entire political party, calling a = person an=20 idiot, and insulting any adherent to religion are all much in the = same. To=20 condemn one while condoning another is exercising a double=20 standard.</DIV> <DIV>What worries me = though is that=20 some of you who do worship something are so insulted, so threatened, so=20 perturbed by those who have a differing opinion. - Once again, = pay=20 attention to the thread. No one is perturbed that you have a = differing=20 opinion. People are pissed because you insulted them. = </DIV> <DIV>To say my = "stability and=20 maturity" also revolve around my adherence to your beliefs speaks = volumes to=20 me. - For the third time, pay attention. I never = insinuated=20 anything of the sort. I don't really care about people's beliefs = so long=20 as they do not threaten the rights of others. My reference to your = lack of=20 stability and maturity had to do with your spouting off a blatant insult = at a=20 sizeable percentage of this list. Somehow I think a baptist = preacher would=20 be recieved in a similar fashion if he attended temple and shouted out = some=20 blind dogma about Jews going to hell.</DIV> <DIV>Folks who don't = believe in=20 deity at all would be the folks who would need to rationalize humanity's = reliance on religion. - If this statement is what got your = panties in a=20 wad, I really don't know what to say. If you read it, it's a = logical=20 statement with little opinion. It's true, the only people that = would be=20 interested in exploring humanities obsession with deities would be those = that do=20 not adhere to a particular religious belief. Those that have a = religious=20 belief system have already come to terms with humanity's relationship = with=20 religion.</DIV> <DIV>I had thought I = was on a list=20 of like minded Cook fans, and in my (normal) experience fantasy and = sci-fi fans=20 are a little more open minded. I guess I was wrong. - = No, you=20 were correct. Fantasy and SciFi fans are generally fairly=20 openminded....but if a bull rampages in a china shop, you shoot the = bull, not=20 admire the shards on the ground. Similarly, if you walk into a=20 conversation and lead off with,"Well, you're all weak minded sheep, = but I'll still favor you with my presence..." you're really = not going=20 to be making any headway. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black">From:=20 <A title=3DAxemaster2001@aol.com=20 href=3D"mailto:Axemaster2001@aol.com">Axemaster2001@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A=20 title=3Dglencook-fans@lists.xmission.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com">glencook-fans@lists.xmis= sion.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 = 12:01=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: Reliance on = Religion (was=20 RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> >> Sounds like a double standard = to me,=20 Igor. As far as I know, religious belief or lack thereof has = never been=20 a determining factor in the overall intelligence or strength of a=20 person. Spouting ill-conceived opinion for no other reason than to = insult a=20 fair percentage of the world population does, however, speak = volumes about=20 the person's stability and maturity. This is just as true for = someone=20 like Pat Buchanan, the Pope, or Axemaster, the AOL=20 user. << "ill-conceived opinion" - "insult a fair = percentage=20 of the world population" Why is my opinon ill-conceived. It is = my=20 opinion. I never once told Derril his opinion was wrong, he stated = his, quoted=20 below, (in the off-topic post that started all this). Why is = this a=20 double standard? Or are you referring to the person who attacked me = and=20 claimed I must also be a democrat, and then someone said "oh dont make = this=20 about politics too, im gonna unsubscribe"? I dont care who you = worship, how you worship or what you worship. What worries me though = is that=20 some of you who do worship something are so insulted, so threatened, = so=20 perturbed by those who have a differing opinion. To say my = "stability=20 and maturity" also revolve around my adherence to your beliefs speaks = volumes=20 to me. I joined this list because it was about Glen Cooks = books and=20 novels. Most of these books are fantasy and science fiction based. In = the=20 fantasy novels alternate gods, demi-gods, mythological religons and = more are=20 everyday events. Someone brought up the close similarities of the = Books of=20 South religious structure and how close it tied into the real world = Hindu and=20 South-East Asian religons. From that someone else stated:=20 <<Folks who don't believe in deity at all would be the = folks who=20 would need to rationalize humanity's reliance on = religion. >> -=20 from Derrills email Which lead to my email. I had = thought I was=20 on a list of like minded Cook fans, and in my (normal) experience = fantasy and=20 sci-fi fans are a little more open minded. I guess I was=20 wrong. Derrils full post: >>> I'm not = sure what=20 you're asking. You see, as a man with religious convictions, I have = a=20 difficult time answering other than: any attempt to rationalize the = human=20 reliance on religion is misguided. There is a God. We must learn to = rely on=20 Him. There are a lot of people who bury themselves (or are buried = by=20 others) in rhetoric and zeal, and pull their convictions so far = from=20 anything to do with today's reality. There are a ton of people = who are=20 waiting to take advantage of whoever they can... some people are = too=20 trusting, too blind of faith. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus = Christ of=20 Latter Day Saints, aka the Mormons. I very strongly believe that = what I'm=20 taught is as correct as it gets, on Earth. However, I've been = overheard to=20 say, from time to time, "I would enjoy church a lot more if it = wasn't for=20 all the damn Mormons." Some people go to church for the wrong = reason; some=20 people go to church for the right reasons, but don't live their = convictions=20 in any meaningful way. Some people -- me, for instance -- are = closet=20 misanthropes and couldn't be pleased even if you put a cherry on=20 top. (Most of us, of course, have every one of these flaws in = greater or=20 lesser degrees. People often get categorized by what you see them = doing=20 when you're in a ba mood.) All of these (and many other) sorts = of things=20 lead to people who don't believe in a deity at all. If, for extreme = example, Father Clemente raped you when you were a teenager, then = anything=20 he says he believes must be absolute crap. Folks who don't = believe in=20 deity at all would be the folks who would need to rationalize = humanity's=20 reliance on religion. Folks who believe in deity would answer = similarly to=20 me: Well, He's there, isn't He? What's to rationalize? Humanity is = drawn by=20 an inbuilt tendency to search for the Creator. A very polite "duh" = would=20 seem the best answer here :) So... Uhm... can you clarify a = little bit=20 what you are asking? I rather suspect that my answer has nothing to = do with=20 the question you asked, as opposed to the question I=20 = read. Derrill </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>= - ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C281A3.60D24300-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #223 *********************************** ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.