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From: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com (glencook-fans-digest) To: glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: glencook-fans-digest V1 #222 Reply-To: glencook-fans-digest Sender: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk glencook-fans-digest Friday, November 1 2002 Volume 01 : Number 222 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:42:15 EST From: Axemaster2001@aol.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) - --part1_6c.250ed572.2af36e37_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/31/2002 6:35:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrraney@attbi.com writes: > > I wish people would keep this list strictly to cook. I > do not care about what some pasty little fool thinks > about politics/history/religion. Keep it to yourself. > No one cares. > > > Mmmm so a person on the list asked a question, and I answered. Only people who agree with you can answer? Wow, you just exhibited the other problem with religion. Intolerence for those who think different. <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster - Cleric 61</A> <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe - Warrior 58</A> - --part1_6c.250ed572.2af36e37_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>In a message dated 10/31/2002 6:35:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrraney@attbi.com writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> I wish people would keep this list strictly to cook. I do not care about what some pasty little fool thinks about politics/history/religion. Keep it to yourself. No one cares. </BLOCKQUOTE> Mmmm so a person on the list asked a question, and I answered. Only people who agree with you can answer? Wow, you just exhibited the other problem with religion. Intolerence for those who think different. <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster - Cleric 61</A> <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe - Warrior 58</A> </HTML> - --part1_6c.250ed572.2af36e37_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:47:53 EST From: Axemaster2001@aol.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) - --part1_19a.aecc669.2af36f89_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/31/2002 7:49:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, pleitch@attglobal.net writes: > > Gee, I thought this was a topic on religion and how it ties in with the > teachings, strick that, writings of Glen Cook! > > your question was about what people would think of Cooks portrayal of religon, which started *someone else* posting off topic....with their religious beliefs, and how Cook would portray them, so I posted mine and wondered how Cook would portray them. As it happens Cook doesnt really list any gods in his whole series from the books of the North, and treats the "gods" of the south with Croakers attitude that maybe they arnt gods, but just supernatural creatures... <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster - Cleric 61</A> <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe - Warrior 58</A> - --part1_19a.aecc669.2af36f89_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>In a message dated 10/31/2002 7:49:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, pleitch@attglobal.net writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Gee, I thought this was a topic on religion and how it ties in with the teachings, strick that, writings of Glen Cook! </BLOCKQUOTE> your question was about what people would think of Cooks portrayal of religon, which started *someone else* posting off topic....with their religious beliefs, and how Cook would portray them, so I posted mine and wondered how Cook would portray them. As it happens Cook doesnt really list any gods in his whole series from the books of the North, and treats the "gods" of the south with Croakers attitude that maybe they arnt gods, but just supernatural creatures... <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster - Cleric 61</A> <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe - Warrior 58</A> </HTML> - --part1_19a.aecc669.2af36f89_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:49:59 EST From: Axemaster2001@aol.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) - --part1_103.1e4c1c84.2af37007_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/31/2002 7:49:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, pleitch@attglobal.net writes: > > Recently, I came across a reference to the White Rose. A search on the > internet turned up "White Rose: Student group in Nazi Germany who > resisted Hitler". > > look up Black Company, there was a military organization in Europe, I think Germanic also, and was a military company who followed a particular lord. I dont have the links anymore but Im sure its findable. <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster - Cleric 61</A> <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe - Warrior 58</A> - --part1_103.1e4c1c84.2af37007_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>In a message dated 10/31/2002 7:49:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, pleitch@attglobal.net writes: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Recently, I came across a reference to the White Rose. A search on the internet turned up "White Rose: Student group in Nazi Germany who resisted Hitler". </BLOCKQUOTE> look up Black Company, there was a military organization in Europe, I think Germanic also, and was a military company who followed a particular lord. I dont have the links anymore but Im sure its findable. <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster - Cleric 61</A> <A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe - Warrior 58</A> </HTML> - --part1_103.1e4c1c84.2af37007_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 00:34:25 -0600 From: "Jordan Raney" <jrraney@attbi.com> Subject: RE: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) >>Wow, you just exhibited the other problem with religion. Intolerence for those who think different<< I am intolerant because I uttered an objection to having myself and billions of others categorized as "weak" simply because of our beliefs? It seems that you are the intolerant one. Let me guess, you are also a staunch democrat. Peter: I have no objection to people commenting on ties between human religion/mythology and cook's writings. Read his message again and tell me how that had anything to do with cook. >>It's strange that someone that attests: "Some of us adhere to a religion" would slam someone else for commenting on religion."<< Hardly. His comment was not about religion, it was about how anyone who believes in one is weak. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Peter Leitch Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:49 PM To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) Gee, I thought this was a topic on religion and how it ties in with the teachings, strick that, writings of Glen Cook! Recently, I came across a reference to the White Rose. A search on the internet turned up "White Rose: Student group in Nazi Germany who resisted Hitler". I think it is great that Cook is a able to tie together politics/history/religion into a tale that is enjoyable to read. It's strange that someone that attests: "Some of us adhere to a religion" would slam someone else for commenting on religion. A sensitive topic, I guess. jrraney@attbi.com wrote: > You're an idiot. > > Religion for the weak? I would say that any > mood-altering substance is for the weak, whether it is > alcohol or religion. Some of us do not adhere to a > religion because of the need for an emotional crutch, > however. Some of us adhere to a religion because we > believe it to be the only thing that makes sense. > > I could name many men who happen to be religious who also > happen to be much stronger than you could ever be. > > I wish people would keep this list strictly to cook. I > do not care about what some pasty little fool thinks > about politics/history/religion. Keep it to yourself. > No one cares. > > > > > >>so those of us without religous convictions cant answer? >> >>ive always believed religion was for the weak. those who need some higher >>power to direct them in how to act and what do to. Ive always wanted there to >>be some movement where the actions of a person are ruled by their conscious >>rather than the threat of living in eternal damnation. however, that would >>mean we would all have to be concerned about each other and work together to >>make a better world, something the majority obviously cant do, hence their >>reliance on religion.... >> >>and all that from a guy that plays a cleric!! >> >> >><A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster</A> 61 >>Cleric >><A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe</A> 58 >>Warrior >> >> > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 01:54:23 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Tygers <robotchas@yahoo.com> Subject: (glencook-fans) Cook on religion, politics and sex An offended person remarked: > I do not care about what some pasty little fool thinks > about politics/history/religion. Keep it to yourself. > No one cares. Sounds like someone cares more than a little, but the issue isn't what WE believe but what we believe Glen believes. Cook makes his view (and it's an interesting one) of religion pretty clear in a number of places I think: in his world(s) there are superhuman entities whose power feeds off the belief of humans and whose motivations are rarely clear to their followers, but there is no overarching cosmic order or benevolent supreme being. Some examples where this comes up are Petty Pewter Gods, the Annals of the Black Company (particularly the later books), the Swordbearer and to a lesser degree the Dread Empire books dealing with the Disciple. I think Cook is probably an atheist, but that's obviously just my interpretation. He does have a pretty dark view of the universe and the meaning of life, a view which at times is somewhat nihilistic but I would call more existentialist - his heroes (and even some villains) still look for hope in spite of the night. His philosophy is another one of the reasons I'm such a big fan of his work. As for the White Rose: yeah, I'd be suprised if Cook didn't at least get the name from those guys, and I've always thought it was a very cool reference. Gives it a lot more weight than if he called the rebellion the "Golden Elves" or something. There's some stuff in the Silver Spike (not my favorite book but it has its moments) about writing anti-Imperial graffiti on the walls at night, something the actual White Rose group did as well. And there's the whole question of whether they were brave heroes or suicidal fools, a question which I'm sure would intrigue Mr. Cook. And since we're on taboo subjects, I noticed that he mentions homosexuality in a couple places - in A Passage at Arms the narrator mentions it as something he's encountered and even experimented with (but did not enjoy), at least one well-known male pair are eventually revealed as lovers (no spoilers!) and - interestingly - in Deadly Quicksilver Lies Garrett makes a lot of homophobic remarks, which (on a second read) I took as indicative of his character, in light of the book's ending, rather than as expressive of the author's views (especially considering the other examples). Again, not something you often see from writers in the scifi/fantasy genres, and another thing that lends some reality to Cook's universes. (And did Garrett have a threesome with the you-know-whos in Angry Lead Skies, or am I projecting?) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 10:11:35 -0600 From: "Carl Forester" <carlforester@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Kina is realy Kali I think you could put that spin on it :-) - -carl- - -----Original Message----- From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kisc Kempson Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 05:50 To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Kina is realy Kali Michele wrote: > The Celts do/did (?) have a "death" god - or Lord of the underworld, > Anwen (sp?) (that's the Welsh version - I can't remember the Irish). > Also - Mannannan (sp?) is considered the Lord of Tir na n'Og, which > is where all good Celts go when they die ;-) In my unending effort to steer email lists off course, I ask the following: Does that sound vaguely Klingon, or is it just me? Derrill Heh. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:15:12 -0500 (EST) From: Igor Filippov <igor@osc.edu> Subject: RE: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) He wasn't actually calling anyone "weak", he merely commented on what he considers to be the role of religion in society. I think your calling people idiots is quite out of line. Please try to express your thoughts in a more appropriate manner. And the jib about democrats has no place on this list (or anywhere in the mature society). Igor On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Jordan Raney wrote: > >>Wow, you just exhibited the other problem with religion. Intolerence for > those who think different<< > > I am intolerant because I uttered an objection to having myself and billions > of others categorized as "weak" simply because of our beliefs? It seems > that you are the intolerant one. Let me guess, you are also a staunch > democrat. > > Peter: > I have no objection to people commenting on ties between human > religion/mythology and cook's writings. Read his message again and tell me > how that had anything to do with cook. > > >>It's strange that someone that attests: "Some of us adhere to a > religion" would slam someone else for commenting on religion."<< > > Hardly. His comment was not about religion, it was about how anyone who > believes in one is weak. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Peter Leitch > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 6:49 PM > To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu > Mythology) > > > Gee, I thought this was a topic on religion and how it ties in with the > teachings, strick that, writings of Glen Cook! > > Recently, I came across a reference to the White Rose. A search on the > internet turned up "White Rose: Student group in Nazi Germany who > resisted Hitler". > > I think it is great that Cook is a able to tie together > politics/history/religion into a tale that is enjoyable to read. > > It's strange that someone that attests: "Some of us adhere to a > religion" would slam someone else for commenting on religion. A > sensitive topic, I guess. > > jrraney@attbi.com wrote: > > > You're an idiot. > > > > Religion for the weak? I would say that any > > mood-altering substance is for the weak, whether it is > > alcohol or religion. Some of us do not adhere to a > > religion because of the need for an emotional crutch, > > however. Some of us adhere to a religion because we > > believe it to be the only thing that makes sense. > > > > I could name many men who happen to be religious who also > > happen to be much stronger than you could ever be. > > > > I wish people would keep this list strictly to cook. I > > do not care about what some pasty little fool thinks > > about politics/history/religion. Keep it to yourself. > > No one cares. > > > > > > > > > > > >>so those of us without religous convictions cant answer? > >> > >>ive always believed religion was for the weak. those who need some higher > >>power to direct them in how to act and what do to. Ive always wanted there > to > >>be some movement where the actions of a person are ruled by their > conscious > >>rather than the threat of living in eternal damnation. however, that would > >>mean we would all have to be concerned about each other and work together > to > >>make a better world, something the majority obviously cant do, hence their > >>reliance on religion.... > >> > >>and all that from a guy that plays a cleric!! > >> > >> > >><A > HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54179">Axemaster</A> > 61 > >>Cleric > >><A HREF="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=54306">Lilaxe</A> > 58 > >>Warrior > >> > >> > > > > ======================================================================= > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:59:38 -0500 From: "Chris Holko" <cholko@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) > He wasn't actually calling anyone "weak", he merely commented on > what he considers to be the role of religion in society. > I think your calling people idiots is quite out of line. > Please try to express your thoughts in a more appropriate manner. > And the jib about democrats has no place on this list (or anywhere > in the mature society). (lurker here) Oh I get it, as long as you bash religious folks you are okay, don't touch the democrats. Sheesh.. time to unsubscribe to this list. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:03:38 -0700 From: "Kisc Kempson" <ninjaspam2@insaneninjahero.com> Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Cook on religion, politics and sex Robert writes: > Cook makes his view (and it's an interesting one) of > religion pretty clear in a number of places I think: > in his world(s) there are superhuman entities whose > power feeds off the belief of humans and whose > motivations are rarely clear to their followers, but > there is no overarching cosmic order or benevolent > supreme being. Some examples where this comes up are > Petty Pewter Gods, the Annals of the Black Company > (particularly the later books), the Swordbearer and to > a lesser degree the Dread Empire books dealing with > the Disciple. I think Cook is probably an atheist, but > that's obviously just my interpretation. He does have > a pretty dark view of the universe and the meaning of > life, a view which at times is somewhat nihilistic but > I would call more existentialist - his heroes (and > even some villains) still look for hope in spite of > the night. His philosophy is another one of the > reasons I'm such a big fan of his work. I'd like to point out, as an aside, that what someone writes does not always equate to their actual beliefs. I've whined about not liking that God controls my life... If I ever actually write the stories in my head, they're going to contain frivolous gods that mess with people's lives, but get their asses kicked in the end by the heros in my books. See, I don't really believe that God is like that. Sometimes it FEELS that way, but I don't really believe it. Boy am I screwed up, eh? > > As for the White Rose: yeah, I'd be suprised if Cook > didn't at least get the name from those guys, and I've > always thought it was a very cool reference. Gives it > a lot more weight than if he called the rebellion the > "Golden Elves" or something. There's some stuff in the > Silver Spike (not my favorite book but it has its > moments) about writing anti-Imperial graffiti on the > walls at night, something the actual White Rose group > did as well. And there's the whole question of whether > they were brave heroes or suicidal fools, a question > which I'm sure would intrigue Mr. Cook. You know, I keep forgetting something. My very favorite author in the entire world is David Drake. Mr. Drake studies ancient writers a lot. And he takes stories like the Illiad and the Oddessy and he turns them into science fiction. He never tries to hide it, and in fact spends time in the foreward sometimes explaining who is which character, and which planet is which island, etc. His Hammer's Slammers books are based on his experiences with an armored cavalry company in 'Nam. Taking from existing sources seems to lend an air of reality to any work, and in spite of my long-winded babbling on other threads, it is something that I apprieciate an author doing... it seems like it would be a lot of extra work, researching all the details about a factual group like that. > > And since we're on taboo subjects, I noticed that he > mentions homosexuality in a couple places - in A > Passage at Arms the narrator mentions it as something > he's encountered and even experimented with (but did > not enjoy), at least one well-known male pair are > eventually revealed as lovers (no spoilers!) and - > interestingly - in Deadly Quicksilver Lies Garrett > makes a lot of homophobic remarks, which (on a second > read) I took as indicative of his character, in light > of the book's ending, rather than as expressive of the > author's views (especially considering the other > examples). Again, not something you often see from > writers in the scifi/fantasy genres, and another thing > that lends some reality to Cook's universes. > > (And did Garrett have a threesome with the > you-know-whos in Angry Lead Skies, or am I projecting?) You know why I love Cook's books so much? Because his characters live life almost exactly as I do: "AH! What the hell!? Well, let's see if we can't survive /this/ one." That's how I feel most of the time, and that seemed to be Croaker and Garrett's way of life as well. Kisc ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:15:25 -0500 (EST) From: Igor Filippov <igor@osc.edu> Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) In case you still reading this list... I don't care about repuclicans or democrats alike, I'm Russian citizen, we have a whole bunch of our own parties there (not that they're all that different). But what do you call "bashing" ? Don't you see a difference between statements "I think religion is for the weak" (I think candies are for the kids, but it doesn't mean adults can't enjoy them too...) and "You're an idiot" ? Igor On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Chris Holko wrote: > > > He wasn't actually calling anyone "weak", he merely commented on > > what he considers to be the role of religion in society. > > I think your calling people idiots is quite out of line. > > Please try to express your thoughts in a more appropriate manner. > > And the jib about democrats has no place on this list (or anywhere > > in the mature society). > > (lurker here) > > Oh I get it, as long as you bash religious folks you are okay, don't touch > the democrats. > > Sheesh.. time to unsubscribe to this list. > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 12:27:04 EST From: LadyRavven@aol.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) - --part1_11b.193047b0.2af41368_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In reference to all this bickering all I wanted to say is that as someone who could have complained that Samhain wasn't about Voodoo (me being pagan and all....}I didn't. We are all adult and that is want makes it fun. The differences and the struggles that we each have is what makes this list fun...as it does Mr. Cooks books. I think in the end that is the point...not who or what this one or that one believes..... *back to lurking til I get moved into the new house on monday* Lady Ravven - --part1_11b.193047b0.2af41368_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>In reference to all this bickering all I wanted to say is that as someone who could have complained that Samhain wasn't about Voodoo (me being pagan and all....}I didn't. We are all adult and that is want makes it fun. The differences and the struggles that we each have is what makes this list fun...as it does Mr. Cooks books. I think in the end that is the point...not who or what this one or that one believes..... *back to lurking til I get moved into the new house on monday* Lady Ravven</HTML> - --part1_11b.193047b0.2af41368_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:32:48 -0700 From: "Kisc Kempson" <ninjaspam2@insaneninjahero.com> Subject: (glencook-fans) Off topic response to off topic nonsense... gets slightly on topic at the end. One of the things that is endlessly entertaining about us humans is how we overreact to things said online. There are no facial expressions to use to interpret, and there is no punishment (everyone laughing in your face because you're a moron) if you misunderstand something someone said and take it completely out of context. Sometime, when you're bored, please take some time to replay a similar scenario to what has been played out in this thread, only do in in real life with real people. They will, at best, shake their heads and wonder why you aren't taking your anti-depressents. They might well kick your ass, if you pick the wrong crowd to mess with. Why is it that in email, or online in general, we feel free to be dickheads for no good reason? And please, /please/, feel free to assume I'm talking about you. Except for Igor. I'm not talking about Igor. In fact, I'm not talking about Axemaster either. I am in complete disagreement with his comments, and in fact I would love to spend time with him discussing his beliefs against religion face to face... particularly I want to try to convince him that just because someone believes in religion s/he isn't weak. (I see now that using myself as an example was the height of silliness). But none of his comments were worthy of "you're an idiot". I will add here that I think you're horribly confused if you believe Mr. Cook would agree with you, Axemaster. Regardless of Mr. Cooks beliefs about Deity, I highly doubt that he would be willing to categorically say that religious people are weak. He seems to have a broad range of experience, and one thing you learn as you get more experience with people, is that everyone is different. There is so much rich variety in this world. Sure, there're a lot of assholes, but there are a lot of people doing the best they can, and there are a lot of people willing to give up a lot to help others... some believe in God, some don't. Don't think for a moment that Croaker's attitude toward the people around him had anything to do with Mr. Cook's attitude... except that Mr. Cook has spent time in the military, and he's doubtless experienced similar things. When you're in a position where you're a member of an outside group, more or less invading an area, you'll find yourself feeling similarly. The frightening part is, you may have experiences like that when you are US Military, on US soil. That's what is scary. But I don't believe for a moment that Mr. Cook feels that way about everyone all the time. If he did, you see, he would be one dimensional. And not many people are. Kisc > In case you still reading this list... > I don't care about repuclicans or democrats alike, I'm Russian citizen, > we have a whole bunch of our own parties there (not that they're all > that different). But what do you call "bashing" ? Don't you see a > difference between statements "I think religion is for the weak" > (I think candies are for the kids, but it doesn't mean adults can't enjoy > them too...) and "You're an idiot" ? > > Igor > > > > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Chris Holko wrote: > > > > > > He wasn't actually calling anyone "weak", he merely commented on > > > what he considers to be the role of religion in society. > > > I think your calling people idiots is quite out of line. > > > Please try to express your thoughts in a more appropriate manner. > > > And the jib about democrats has no place on this list (or anywhere > > > in the mature society). > > > > (lurker here) > > > > Oh I get it, as long as you bash religious folks you are okay, > don't touch > > the democrats. > > > > Sheesh.. time to unsubscribe to this list. > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:35:35 -0700 From: "Kisc Kempson" <ninjaspam2@insaneninjahero.com> Subject: RE: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) I really wish I could remember why I thought it had to do with Voodoo. I swear there was some sort of voodoo god or so named similarly to Samhain. I certainly didn't intend to be offensive, and thank you for not taking it that way :). I still wish I could figure out where I read something that made me think that. Happily, I don't care that much about things that /I/ believe, much less things that other people believe. Not unless it is in a fictional book that I read ;) Derrill - -----Original Message----- From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of LadyRavven@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:27 AM To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) In reference to all this bickering all I wanted to say is that as someone who could have complained that Samhain wasn't about Voodoo (me being pagan and all....}I didn't. We are all adult and that is want makes it fun. The differences and the struggles that we each have is what makes this list fun...as it does Mr. Cooks books. I think in the end that is the point...not who or what this one or that one believes..... *back to lurking til I get moved into the new house on monday* Lady Ravven ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 11:39:44 -0600 From: "Primalchrome" <primalchrome@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) Sounds like a double standard to me, Igor. As far as I know, religious belief or lack thereof has never been a determining factor in the overall intelligence or strength of a person. Spouting ill-conceived opinion for no other reason than to insult a fair percentage of the world population does, however, speak volumes about the person's stability and maturity. This is just as true for someone like Pat Buchanan, the Pope, or Axemaster, the AOL user. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Filippov" <igor@osc.edu> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 11:15 AM Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) > > In case you still reading this list... > I don't care about repuclicans or democrats alike, I'm Russian citizen, > we have a whole bunch of our own parties there (not that they're all > that different). But what do you call "bashing" ? Don't you see a > difference between statements "I think religion is for the weak" > (I think candies are for the kids, but it doesn't mean adults can't enjoy > them too...) and "You're an idiot" ? > > Igor > > > > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Chris Holko wrote: > > > > > > He wasn't actually calling anyone "weak", he merely commented on > > > what he considers to be the role of religion in society. > > > I think your calling people idiots is quite out of line. > > > Please try to express your thoughts in a more appropriate manner. > > > And the jib about democrats has no place on this list (or anywhere > > > in the mature society). > > > > (lurker here) > > > > Oh I get it, as long as you bash religious folks you are okay, don't touch > > the democrats. > > > > Sheesh.. time to unsubscribe to this list. > > > > > > ======================================================================= > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. > > > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:38:55 -0700 From: "Kisc Kempson" <ninjaspam2@insaneninjahero.com> Subject: RE: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) <irony>Christianity would be great, if it wasn't for all the damn Christians. - Kisc the Christian.</irony> - -----Original Message----- From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Axemaster2001@aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:42 PM To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: Reliance on Religion (was RE: (glencook-fans) Hindu Mythology) In a message dated 10/31/2002 6:35:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, jrraney@attbi.com writes: I wish people would keep this list strictly to cook. I do not care about what some pasty little fool thinks about politics/history/religion. Keep it to yourself. No one cares. Mmmm so a person on the list asked a question, and I answered. Only people who agree with you can answer? Wow, you just exhibited the other problem with religion. Intolerence for those who think different. Axemaster - Cleric 61 Lilaxe - Warrior 58 ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>. ------------------------------ End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #222 *********************************** ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.