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glencook-fans-digest     Wednesday, August 7 2002     Volume 01 : Number 201




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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:29:06 -0400
From: Hangnail <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) More on names

On 7/23/02 7:06 PM, "Joe Murphy" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Spoilers for Water Sleeps and Soldiers live
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



Same thing with BooBoo ...



> I have noticed a couple more things on this topic that I found
> interesting. One is when Soulcatcher is mumbling about Lady , she refers
> to her as as Ardath. Is here memory going or is she as confused as the
> Dominator was?
> Next topic is Tobo. That is a nickname only. But he never receives his
> real name from his Mom before she dies. Does this mean no one ever can
> use his true name against him (short of calling Sahras spirit up).
> Or does Tobo basically become his True name since he is never called by
> anything else?
>
> Murph
>
>
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:38:28 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Angry Lead Skies ***SPOILER ALERT***

Troy Lefman wrote:
>
> Richard Chilton wrote:
>
> > I know these are old posts, but I didn't have the book when they were
> > sent.  Someone at the bookstore forgot to phone to tell me it was in, so
> > I just finished yesterday.
> >
> > "Timothy P. Taylor" wrote:
> > >
> > > I finished Angry Lead Skies.
> > >
> > > I liked it.
> > >
> > > ************SPOILER ALERT******************
> > >
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > **
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *I think that some of the alluded to sex scenes were "interesting", I liked
> > > VERY MCUH the fact that Pular was in this one.  Cook did a good job I think
> > > in rounding out several characters, and still managing to incorporate
> > > several old reliables (Saucerhead, Morley, Winger) without going overboard.
> > >
> > > I think he's setting it up for a pretty good conclusion, the ending was
> > > interesting what with the dialogue between Old Man Tate, Garrett and Tinnie.
> > >
> > > Okay, I'm rooting that he settles down with tinnie...I admit to a bit of a
> > > bias in that I myself married a red-head...no regrets!
> > >
> >
> >
> > The latest book advanced (in a round about way) a new theory for how
> > Garrett was always able to get the girls - he seems to be a borderline
> > Psy with unconscious powers.  The mother daughter team that was
> > introduced seemed like a glaring pointer to how Garrett gets the girls -
> > his mind pulls them towards him.
>
> I opt for the idea of TunFaire and Karenta being limited on the number of eligible
> men due to the war.  The war is over now, but the women are used to the older
> (25-30 age group) men to be strong and reliable.  Of course, they survived the
> ravages of war.  Because Garrett lived through the war and is a "go-getter"
> (though not a self-starter), the women find him beyond adorable.  I would guess he
> is handsome too, but that is another topic altogether.
>

That's what I thought up until the time Garrett ran into his old
commanding officer in one of the books (don't have the books handy, but
I think it was the one where the Call was introduced) and the CO
recognized Garrett.  If memory serves the former CO said something like
Garrett being the only person in existance who could be stuck in a swamp
in the middle of a war zone and find a beautiful girl.
Getting lucky in a city where women outnumber guys 5 (or was it 10?) to
1 is one thing.  Being the only guy to get luck in an isolated swamp in
a warzone is another.

Richard

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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:51:13 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) More on names

Joe Murphy wrote:
>
> Spoilers for Water Sleeps and Soldiers live
>

























> I have noticed a couple more things on this topic that I found
> interesting. One is when Soulcatcher is mumbling about Lady , she refers
> to her as as Ardath. Is here memory going or is she as confused as the
> Dominator was?

Maybe not...
Remember there were four sisters, two of which were (if memory serves)
twins.  My take is Lady's twin sister was Ardath and even if the two
weren't twins there would be a family resemblance.
So Soulcatcher might be thinking about her long dead sister, or
wondering what happened to the sister's whose fate is never documented.

There were four sisters, and of these four we know of:
Lady
Soulcatcher
One that Lady killed (according to Soulcatcher in the Whisper chapter of
_The Black Company_)

Leaving one whose fate is never revealed.  I think it's safe to assume
that number four is dead but I've just had a thought about her:
The Taken die.  Not easily, but they go down.
The Dominator could die.
The While Rose mark one had a magic damping field that had to be at
least as good as Darling's (i.e. The White Rose mark two) but the
Dominator, Lady, and Taken were burried because the White Rose couldn't
kill them even inside the null.

The Lady and Soulcatcher knew each other's True Names and a web of
sorcery protected each from the other's direct attacks.  Could that
fourth sister (unable to kill Lady and Soulcatcher) have been the White
Rose?
1
Pros:
A nice theory.

Cons:
1) Timing - I've got the impression that the Dominion lasted centuries.
If true then a null couldn't have lived as long as Lady.
2) Lady and Soulcatcher were able to attack each other through others or
attacks which didn't involve naming - then again it's been a while since
I read the end of The Black Company and Soulcatcher's "death scene" so
I'm not sure how much input Lady had in Soulcatcher's "death".  Then
again, Lady being involved might have been why Soulcatcher survived...
On the other hand the Limper survived as a head and no relative of his
was involved in his death.

>  Next topic is Tobo. That is a nickname only. But he never receives his
> real name from his Mom before she dies. Does this mean no one ever can
> use his true name against him (short of calling Sahras spirit up).
>  Or does Tobo basically become his True name since he is never called by
> anything else?
>

Not having a True Name might be one of the reasons why Tobo has such
great potencial - he lacks one of the traditional weaknesses that other
wizards have.
Several real life cultures have new 'True' names for manhood.  At one
time it was common to refer to an infant as 'the kid' until it was 2 - 3
years old - infant mortality being so high you didn't want to get overly
attached to them until they lived through the most dangerous age.

Of course everything above are just my thoughts,
Richard

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 21:52:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (glencook-fans) List of Taken and Shadowmasters

Hello folks. I'm new to this fan mailing list, and I'd
like to start by showing you my breakdown of the Ten
original Taken and what we know about their respective
demises. I'll put page references whenever possible so
the hardcore storyline fans who read this can either
corroborate or disprove me. Please, you don't have to
go easy on the new guy   :)

Because my list is essentially one enormous spoiler,
I'll do what I've seen others do in the archives I have
read, in case someone who is reading this hasn't read
up to "Soldiers Live". NOTE: if you've read the nine BC
books and The Silver Spike, this won't spoil anything.

Spoilers below, pertaining to the deaths of the 10
original Taken, and the 4 or 8 Shadowmasters.





spoiler space!

spoiler space!





Okay, to keep it simple I'll put the Taken's name and
jump right into the specifics about his / her demise,
if any.

1) Soulcatcher - Still alive as of "Soldiers Live".

2) The Howler - Was believed to be killed when he
crashed into the Tower ("The Black Company" pgs
291-292), but survived that incident. Was confirmed
killed by shadows and/or Taglians in "Soldiers Live" pg
430. [See also the note below on the EIGHT
Shadowmasters.]

3) The Limper - Survived too many incidents that I can
bother to count, but was finally killed in "The Silver
Spike" by being boiled, and having the remains buried
in a place only godlike powers could apparently access.

4) Stormbringer - Thought to have been killed by
Bonegnasher in the first novel on page 270. It was a
ruse, however, and she survived to travel south to
become Stormshadow, one of the Shadowmasters.
Stormbringer was finally killed by Shapeshifter (who
had traveled south to do exactly that) after he mauled
her. She apparently was weakened by the Company Lance
(when Murgen stabbed her before the mauling with
Shifter) just like Howler was when Croaker stabbed
Howler. I think the Lance's magical wounds disabled her
and therefore helped Shifter finish her. In any case,
she died atop the tower in the citadel of Dejagore in
"Shadow Games". It was confirmed in "Dreams of Steel"
that she and Shifter were killed there and their
remains were dealt with properly. [See also the note
below on the EIGHT Shadowmasters.]

5) Shapeshifter - on page 263 in the first novel, the
Captain delivers word that Shifter was lost, and that
"The cirumstances were questionable...". However
Shapeshifter actually survived, and sneaked south. He
did this because he wanted to settle with Stormbringer
(because she had a hand in killing the Hanged Man, a
person that Shifter wanted to rescue, and also
supposedly tried to murder Shifter himself, which you
can find on page 286 in "Shadow Games"). His plan
worked, and he either killed her or severely maimed her
atop the citadel tower. Both of them were finished off
because they were too weak to defend themselves.
One-Eye sewed their orifices shut and dealt with their
remains according to Lady's suggestions which she gave
on page 290 in "Shadow Games".

6) The Hanged Man - On page 227 in the first novel, we
see Harden fling his giant sword in the general
direction of the four Taken who he had incapacitated
temporarily. Next page we learn that the sword landed
through the Hanged Man's skull. He was blubbering and
dying, and although clearly Shapeshifter wanted to help
him, Soulcatcher and Stormbringer did not. So, the
Hanged Man was not helped and allowed to die. It is
very, very likely that Stormbringer dealt with the
Hanged Man's remains afterward. If not, it doesn't
matter, since a sword through the brain is enough to
kill even the greatest sorcerer. This was mentioned
before, but I apologize since I cannot remember the
exact reference. Sorcerers can be beheaded and survive,
correct? But the brain's actual destruction is
something no sorcerer can survive. That is why the
Company had Shadowspinner's head as a trophy for
awhile; it was stated that the brain was removed and
destroyed and therefore posed no danger. I say all this
just to reinforce that the Hanged Man is dead  :)

7) Bonegnasher - In the first novel, on page 270, we're
informed that this man was killed, most likely by
Stormbringer, who was herself supposed to be killed
then too. Although he is a giant man, I have no trouble
believing that Stormbringer could kill him. Maybe she
struck him with some lightning and other magics. She
could, after all, physically battle Shapeshifter
himself (in the forvalaka form, no less!) and give him
a run for his money. And since Bonegnasher is never
mentioned again, there is no reason to believe he
wasn't killed. Besides, Otto and Hagop would have
reported it, if they didn't find Bonegnasher's body
after they exhumed the other Taken's bodies.

8) Nightcrawler - This character supposedly was lost to
Rebel action on page 279, first novel. However! Otto
and Hagop could not find his body (pg 292 "Bleak
Seasons"). Which leads me to believe that Nightcrawler
was not actually killed there, and was one of the 3
people that were killed according to Uncle Doj. See the
note below on the EIGHT Shadowmasters for much more on
that.

9) Moonbiter - Supposedly killed during internal feuds
(on page 279 in the first novel), Moonbiter was lost
the same day as the Faceless Man. Since we are told on
that same page that Moonbiter and the Faceless Man were
not killed by enemy action, it is logical that they
skragged each other. [Which is why I personally believe
that Moonbiter is the 3rd female Taken, since the Lady
said some female Taken were planning to help the Circle
because they were in service to the Dominator, and the
Faceless is a "Man".] But, just like Nightcrawler, Otto
and Hagop could not find her body (pg 292 "Bleak
Seasons"). See the note below on the EIGHT
Shadowmasters for much more on this.

10) The Faceless Man/Nameless One - Reportedly killed
during internal feuds on page 279 in the first novel.
Not lost to enemy action. See Moonbiter above for more.
And, just like Moonbiter and Nightcrawler, Otto and
Hagop could not find his body. [See also the note below
on the EIGHT Shadowmasters.]

That's my list of the Taken and their demises. Please
debate any details in my writing you feel you should.
But I have some more before I leave.

THE ****EIGHT**** SHADOWMASTERS.
Uncle Doj says (Water Sleeps pg. 150) that Longshadow
went with the Nyueng Bao pilgrims and their false key
to the shadowgate. Once they got there, they
encountered Shadowspinner under the name Ashutosh
Yaksha "and a half-dozen other sorcerers waiting." So,
that's 6 other people, plus Shadowspinner and
Longshadow, which of course makes eight. He then says
that "several were fugitives from [the north]". Well,
look at the known list of the four Shadowmasters:

1) Longshadow (aka Maricha Manthara Dhumraksha)
2) Shadowspinner (aka Ashutosh Yaksha)
3) Moonshadow (we know little about this guy; but
Soulcatcher saw him on the Lance and disposed of him
and recognized that he was NOT a Taken)
4) Stormshadow (aka Stormbringer; Taken fugitive)

Obviously, Moonshadow and Stormbringer/Stormshadow were
2 of the "half-dozen other sorcerers" that Doj
mentioned. But what about the other 4? Well, Doj says
that Howler was there, and was cruelly injured and
fled. Which makes perfect sense, since he made a home
with the swamp pirates after fleeing the shadowgate.

5) Howler (Taken fugitive)

Now we're left with 3 other missing people. Since Otto
and Hagop found no bodies for 3 certain Taken, it is
logical that these three AWOL sorcerers are the missing
trio.

6) Nightcrawler (Taken fugitive)
7) Moonbiter (Taken fugitive)
8) The Faceless Man (aka the Nameless One; Taken
fugitive)

There's my list of the original intended eight
Shadowmasters. I've read the majority of the newer
archives of these mailing lists and this topic wasn't
covered afaik, so I figured I share what I know. Please
tell me if you agree or not, and if you have some
evidence to refute any of my stuff.
- -Welly

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End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #201
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