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glencook-fans-digest      Saturday, July 13 2002      Volume 01 : Number 197




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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:55:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) BC Magic system [potential spoilers]

>
>At 08:05 PM 7/10/2002 -0300, Richard Chilton wrote:
>>I could be really off base here of course - power words aren't the only
>>system of magic that exist in fantasy, but they do fit the books closer
>>than the other ones.  Rare components don't appear to be sacrificed to
>>make most spells work; it doesn't look like most of the wizards deal
>>with other worldly entities for power (but that apperantly happens often
>>enough for Lady to recognize when it happens with her); wizards don't do
>>long, time comsuming rituals for most times; wizards don't spend forever
>>studying spells, nor do they live virtuous or sinful lives (at least not
>>more than others).
>
>powerful and complex magics in a matter of seconds.  I'm inclined to
>suspect that magical "energy," however measured, is more of a factor than
>knowledge, especially given that Lady later possesses the knowledge but
>lacks the energy.  That would also explain why many of the truly powerful
>wizards simply don't demonstrate any sense of subtlety--they just aren't
>accustomed to needing it.
>
>David
>

David,
    I think you're right that it is mostly a magical "energy" or
perhaps magical "will" which is the source of each person's magic.  The
words or components may help focus it, but aren't strictly necessary --
you made the good point about Silent.  It also seems that some knowledge
as to how to focus the energy to produce specific results can be helpful.
This may be where the specialization of the Taken comes in -- they've
learned specific tricks to focus their energy to perform certain tasks
well.  It also seems possible that this energy is inherited (Lady and
Soulcatcher are sisters and Lady's daughter may have magical ability too).
    However, I think that we're trying to enforce a rigorous system
of magic where it doesn't exist -- I don't think Cook has thought about
it (or necessarily cares to think about it) in this amount of detail.

                Steve


- --
Steve Chew - [e-mail] - http://www.interzone.com
"Read any books whatever come to thy hands, for thou art sufficient
 both to judge aright, and to examine each matter....Prove all things,
 hold fast that which is good."
        -- John Milton

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 01:51:52 -0700
From: Joe Murphy <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Brother Vs. Brother

Spoilers for Glittering Stone and Shadows Linger













In Stone when the Nar are opening the East Gate and Murgens bunch show
up to stop them Murgen writes that this is the first instance of brother
fighting brother.
 In Shadows after the Old Crew take off the rest of the Company pursues
and catches them . Pawnbroker tells Croaker about it. They even
reference the the others as "the rest of the Company".

 Did Glen forget about it?
 Was Murgen not joined yet so did not know? I thought this till I came
across Murgen talking to Swan in Glittering about how he joined the
Company, and references the Rebel in a bad way so as to make one think
he joined before they turned Rebel.( I always figured he was one that
joined during the march to Charm or shortly thereafter. It would make
him 30 to 35 yrs old or so during Shadow Games which is plenty young
enough for One Eye to call him pup.)

 Murph


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:35:02 -0500
From: David Bricker <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Brother Vs. Brother

>
> Spoilers for Glittering Stone and Shadows Linger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Stone when the Nar are opening the East Gate and Murgens bunch show
> up to stop them Murgen writes that this is the first instance of brother
> fighting brother.
> In Shadows after the Old Crew take off the rest of the Company pursues
> and catches them . Pawnbroker tells Croaker about it. They even
> reference the the others as "the rest of the Company".

I'm probably being thick here -- but where's the contradiction? Can you be a
little more explicit?

> Was Murgen not joined yet so did not know? I thought this till I came
> across Murgen talking to Swan in Glittering about how he joined the
> Company, and references the Rebel in a bad way so as to make one think
> he joined before they turned Rebel.( I always figured he was one that
> joined during the march to Charm or shortly thereafter. It would make
> him 30 to 35 yrs old or so during Shadow Games which is plenty young
> enough for One Eye to call him pup.)

As old as they are, One-Eye and Goblin call a lot of BC members some young
in some deprecating fashion, including Croaker, before he becomes Captain.
More telling perhaps is Murgen's constant reference to Croaker as The Old
Man.

The earliest BC engagement Murgen refers to as having experienced it himself
is Juniper, I think.


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 13:04:22 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Brother Vs. Brother

David Bricker wrote:
>
> >
> > Spoilers for Glittering Stone and Shadows Linger
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In Stone when the Nar are opening the East Gate and Murgens bunch show
> > up to stop them Murgen writes that this is the first instance of brother
> > fighting brother.
> > In Shadows after the Old Crew take off the rest of the Company pursues
> > and catches them . Pawnbroker tells Croaker about it. They even
> > reference the the others as "the rest of the Company".
>
> I'm probably being thick here -- but where's the contradiction? Can you be a
> little more explicit?
>

What I think he means is:
How can the fighting at the east gate be the first time the company
fought itself (brother fighting brother) if it fought itself after
Juniper?
Either Murgen didn't know about the earlier case or there's some other
reason.

As you've stated Murgen probably knew about the early case, so what
could the other reason could there be?

Maybe the 'new company' / old company split is at the heart of it.
Perhaps neither side thought of each other as brothers when they fought
in book two.  The new company saw the old company as traitors while the
old company saw the new guys as dupes.  I.E. a "We aren't fighting
brothers, we're fighting those we used to call brothers" kind of thing.
But during the fighting at the east gate both sides saw each other as
members of the same company.  They saw each others as brothers.  It
wasn't two versions of the company but a civil war.

Or maybe Murgen was being dramatic.  Maybe he feels recording it as the
first time Brother fought Brother sounds better than "the first time in
years that Brother fought Brother" and he's writing for future readers.
Remember that he only recently took on the 'sacred duty' of maintaining
the annals and he may be trying to put the most dramatic light on
things.

Or maybe Murgen has a memory problem.  Wasn't he under the influences of
a memory altering spell Lady cast on him?

Or maybe the mob fight after Jupiter was seen to be more of a brawl than
a battle.  If memory serves it wasn't much of an engagement - the old
crew left on the ship while the new crew was fighting the Prince's men
for control of the city.  It's been a few years since I re-read it, but
my impression was a few people fought but it wasn't really a company
verse company battle.
Croaker even patched up both side's losers - something that won't have
happened after the east gate.

> > Was Murgen not joined yet so did not know? I thought this till I came
> > across Murgen talking to Swan in Glittering about how he joined the
> > Company, and references the Rebel in a bad way so as to make one think
> > he joined before they turned Rebel.( I always figured he was one that
> > joined during the march to Charm or shortly thereafter. It would make
> > him 30 to 35 yrs old or so during Shadow Games which is plenty young
> > enough for One Eye to call him pup.)
>
> As old as they are, One-Eye and Goblin call a lot of BC members some young
> in some deprecating fashion, including Croaker, before he becomes Captain.
> More telling perhaps is Murgen's constant reference to Croaker as The Old
> Man.
>

The Old Man is the classic reference to the commander.  Used to refer to
rank, not age.  The 50 year old sergeant would refer to the 30 year
captain as the Old Man.  I'm not sure how it started out (maybe the
senior officer taking command after the commander went down?  maybe the
senior appointed officer listening to the most experinced officer?
maybe the burden of command aging you?) but its use is wide spread.

Richard

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:19:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Brother Vs. Brother

>> >
>> > Spoilers for Glittering Stone and Shadows Linger
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In Stone when the Nar are opening the East Gate and Murgens bunch show
>> > up to stop them Murgen writes that this is the first instance of brother
>> > fighting brother.
>> > In Shadows after the Old Crew take off the rest of the Company pursues
>> > and catches them . Pawnbroker tells Croaker about it. They even
>> > reference the the others as "the rest of the Company".
>>
>> I'm probably being thick here -- but where's the contradiction? Can you be a
>> little more explicit?
>>
>
>What I think he means is:
>How can the fighting at the east gate be the first time the company
>fought itself (brother fighting brother) if it fought itself after
>Juniper?
>Either Murgen didn't know about the earlier case or there's some other
>reason.
>
    If I was Gordian I would say that it's simply an inconsistency.
:)

                Steve



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------------------------------

End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #197
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