home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
pub
/
lists
/
glencook-fans
/
archive
/
v01.n132
< prev
next >
Wrap
Internet Message Format
|
2001-09-01
|
41KB
From: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com (glencook-fans-digest)
To: glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: glencook-fans-digest V1 #132
Reply-To: glencook-fans-digest
Sender: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
glencook-fans-digest Sunday, September 2 2001 Volume 01 : Number 132
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 02:00:37 -0500
From: "Wright Frazier" <khelek@home.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
> > Who wins the "Most Evil Character" award in BC series?
>
> One of my personal favorites was always The Limper. He lived only on
> spite, hatred, and some magic to keep him alive. You gotta love spite.
> heh.
Easily Croaker was the most evil guy in the whole series. His obsession
with finding Katovhar killed thousands of friends so close he called them
brothers, destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of people (victims of the
shadow war), and in the end he murdered the population of a contient and
might have destroyed a world cause he didn't get what he wanted.
The Dominator or any other person ever actually succeeded in doin some bad
shit of this magnitude, though not from a lack of effort.
Wright
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 04:09:53 EDT
From: Aseret32@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
- --part1_a5.1ad3b96c.28c34351_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Well, Wright...you have a good point.
About to change the subject...
I would like to see the BC book series made into an animated movie
series...maybe done like Final Fantasy movie?
~Dreamer
- --part1_a5.1ad3b96c.28c34351_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Well, Wright...you have a good point.
<BR>About to change the subject...
<BR>I would like to see the BC book series made into an animated movie
<BR>series...maybe done like Final Fantasy movie?
<BR>~Dreamer</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_a5.1ad3b96c.28c34351_boundary--
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 09:39:52 -0500
From: David George <d.s.george@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
if yer trollin, you need to try a better bait. back it up,
eh?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wright Frazier
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:01 AM
To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
> > Who wins the "Most Evil Character" award in BC series?
>
> One of my personal favorites was always The Limper. He
lived only on
> spite, hatred, and some magic to keep him alive. You
gotta love spite.
> heh.
Easily Croaker was the most evil guy in the whole series.
His obsession
with finding Katovhar killed thousands of friends so close
he called them
brothers, destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of
people (victims of the
shadow war), and in the end he murdered the population of a
contient and
might have destroyed a world cause he didn't get what he
wanted.
The Dominator or any other person ever actually succeeded
in doin some bad
shit of this magnitude, though not from a lack of effort.
Wright
========================================================
===============
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:06:43 +0200
From: "gwen1" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
> Are yea all nuts? The award should to the Lady. She's about the
> coldest B***h I've ever read about. How many did she slaughter?
> Not only in the north, but also in the South? She "Took" how many
> wizards to help her? Did yea all forget her spider like abilities to
create
> plots and run a empire so full of plots, counter plots and death?
>
> Everyone else are Pikers compared to her.
>
> Pat
Well, I can see some good sides to her... loving, faithful, dependable,
brilliant, professional.... excellent organizer, ingenious strategist...
skilled politician... awesome mage. Plots, counter plots, casualities...
that's the part of the world she was born into. Her Empire was quite
peaceful, you know. Not deaths for no reason, like earlier, in the
Dominator's times.
gwen
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:28:56 +0200
From: "gwen1" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) Most Evil Character
Craig Dutton wrote:
> Though I'd also consider Raven... a guy who encapsulated all his "good
guy"
> feelings into protecting Darling, which left him 'morally free' to sell
living
> people to the Black Castle, amongst other sins. Evil is about quality as
much
> or more than quantity, after all.
Hm, it came to my mind after reading this,: a great experiment in showing
evil is found in a french movie "Frere Loupe", "The brotherhood of wolves"-
I don't mean the main plot only. If you have seen it, did you pay attention
to the scenery, to how everything is SHOWN? A lot of this film's communicate
is given through images, almost through subconsciousness. It makes you feel
like evil is everywhere, not quality or quantity counts, but the presence or
lack of it. Quality and quantity only make us notice it, although it's
allways here- it's just that we have grown used to it.
Now I see the same in the BC series. Look how we like the merceneries,
forget their job, lifestyle, morale. Then show at the Dominator, Lady, Kina
as the evil ones. It's in them, along withe their good sides. look at the
Dominator- true leader, archmage, probably very sexy, etc, etc.
gwen
- --
"Everyone want's your good-
don't let them take it!"
Stanislaw Jerzy Lec.
greetings form Gwen
gwen1@wp.pl
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 10:07:53 -0500
From: David George <d.s.george@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
hmm. read my own message and it looked a little cryptic to
me so I'll do a little expansion.
my thought is that calling croaker most evillest is
probably an unpopular conclusion and one the opiner himself
may not share: he may be trolling up some discussion. and
since i'm writing, if that was his intent, he wins.
by "back it up" i mean flesh out the allegations.
frinstance: thousands of friends so close he called them
brothers is a bit of an exaggeration i'm thinking. doubt
that croaker had more than 100 friends in the whole series.
comrades and brothers in arms are not the same as friends.
as to the khatovar situation, he had help and he was
provoked. in other words, start no fight you can't finish
lest it finish you. don't pull a gun you won't shoot and
when you shoot, aim to kill.
is it body count that matters or intent? we get a lot of
allusions to the bad old days of the dominator, someone so
bad he united the world against him. same may be assumed
of the guy under the tree. kina was bad enough to unite
more than one world against her.
croaker at least had friends. catcher could not manage
that much. of course, her violent, psychotic episodes
might have hindered her ability to reach out and love
people.
i'm sort of challenging wright's opinion without lining up
firmly behind any one of my own. that is because i think
the question is pointless with regard to the works of glen
cook. across all genres and series. that is one reason i
enjoy them so much. no one is completely bad or good.
almost every character can, in their own mind, come up
with some justification for their own actions. like life.
but glen's books are more exciting than life. my life, at
least, and i hope everyone else's as well.
dg
- -----Original Message-----
From: David George
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 9:40 AM
To: 'glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com'
Subject: RE: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
if yer trollin, you need to try a better bait. back it up,
eh?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wright Frazier
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:01 AM
To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
> > Who wins the "Most Evil Character" award in BC series?
>
> One of my personal favorites was always The Limper. He
lived only on
> spite, hatred, and some magic to keep him alive. You
gotta love spite.
> heh.
Easily Croaker was the most evil guy in the whole series.
His obsession
with finding Katovhar killed thousands of friends so close
he called them
brothers, destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of
people (victims of the
shadow war), and in the end he murdered the population of a
contient and
might have destroyed a world cause he didn't get what he
wanted.
The Dominator or any other person ever actually succeeded
in doin some bad
shit of this magnitude, though not from a lack of effort.
Wright
========================================================
===============
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
========================================================
===============
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 09:22:59 -0700
From: Pat & Ellen Hannum <hanmac@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
gwen1 wrote:
> >
> > Everyone else are Pikers compared to her.
> >
> > Pat
>
> Well, I can see some good sides to her... loving, faithful, dependable,
> brilliant, professional....
Where was this? Oh, you mean the fact that she knew her empire was
done and that she had lost her powers so it was time to get out of town?
That's when she hooked up with Coaker. Caesar was a Pro, as was
Napoleon. Both left rather impressive body counts all over and were
considered "evil" .
> excellent organizer, ingenious strategist...
> skilled politician...
So is about every Serial killer and most Dictators...
> awesome mage. Plots, counter plots, casualities...
> that's the part of the world she was born into.
No, she helped create this with the Dominator.
> Her Empire was quite peaceful, you know.
> Not deaths for no reason, like earlier, in the
> Dominator's times.
No, it was quite firmly stated that the lords amused
themselves by doing each other in, with her tact
approval, as to make sure that they could not
challenge her power and rules.
No, she ruled by the terror of her power striking down
any that opposed her. Large armies. Powerful wizards.
When she lost all of them, she hid behind Croaker,
Goblin and Oneye.
> gwen
>
Pat
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 12:15:39 -0500
From: "Wright Frazier" <khelek@home.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
a) Croaker lead the Black Company on his quest from the Barrowlands south
and started the Shadow War. In the process he raised numerous armies and
shattered them and destroyed nations. All in his insane quest to take some
books home.
b) He redefined a peace loving culture into a warlike one. (Taglians)
c) But the single most evil thing he did was without a doubt khatovar. He
could just as easily have left the log buried in a place that wouldn't harm
the gate, or not taken it at all. Instead he choose to bury it in a place
where if it did go up big would destroy the gate, and in that destruction
let loose a million shadows on that world that could end life on that world
all together.
Even the Dominator, Kina, Limper, and Catcher never attempted to destroy an
entire world on purpose out of something as petty as spite for interfering
with him. At least Longshadow had the excuse of bein a open looney.
Croaker was very purposeful and direct in his attempt to destroy a world.
The Dominator, Kina, and Lady were all pretty damn evil folks no doubt, but
they never attempted to destroy a world full of innocent people out of
spite.
Wright
> hmm. read my own message and it looked a little cryptic to
> me so I'll do a little expansion.
>
> my thought is that calling croaker most evillest is
> probably an unpopular conclusion and one the opiner himself
> may not share: he may be trolling up some discussion. and
> since i'm writing, if that was his intent, he wins.
>
> by "back it up" i mean flesh out the allegations.
> frinstance: thousands of friends so close he called them
> brothers is a bit of an exaggeration i'm thinking. doubt
> that croaker had more than 100 friends in the whole series.
> comrades and brothers in arms are not the same as friends.
> as to the khatovar situation, he had help and he was
> provoked. in other words, start no fight you can't finish
> lest it finish you. don't pull a gun you won't shoot and
> when you shoot, aim to kill.
>
> is it body count that matters or intent? we get a lot of
> allusions to the bad old days of the dominator, someone so
> bad he united the world against him. same may be assumed
> of the guy under the tree. kina was bad enough to unite
> more than one world against her.
>
> croaker at least had friends. catcher could not manage
> that much. of course, her violent, psychotic episodes
> might have hindered her ability to reach out and love
> people.
>
> i'm sort of challenging wright's opinion without lining up
> firmly behind any one of my own. that is because i think
> the question is pointless with regard to the works of glen
> cook. across all genres and series. that is one reason i
> enjoy them so much. no one is completely bad or good.
> almost every character can, in their own mind, come up
> with some justification for their own actions. like life.
> but glen's books are more exciting than life. my life, at
> least, and i hope everyone else's as well.
>
> dg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David George
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 9:40 AM
> To: 'glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com'
> Subject: RE: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
>
> if yer trollin, you need to try a better bait. back it up,
> eh?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wright Frazier
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:01 AM
> To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
>
>
>
> > > Who wins the "Most Evil Character" award in BC series?
> >
> > One of my personal favorites was always The Limper. He
> lived only on
> > spite, hatred, and some magic to keep him alive. You
> gotta love spite.
> > heh.
>
> Easily Croaker was the most evil guy in the whole series.
> His obsession
> with finding Katovhar killed thousands of friends so close
> he called them
> brothers, destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of
> people (victims of the
> shadow war), and in the end he murdered the population of a
> contient and
> might have destroyed a world cause he didn't get what he
> wanted.
>
> The Dominator or any other person ever actually succeeded
> in doin some bad
> shit of this magnitude, though not from a lack of effort.
>
> Wright
>
>
>
> ========================================================
> ===============
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
> list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
> ========================================================
> ===============
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
> list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 01:08:17 -0700
From: Lee Childs <childsl@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) For everyone
I agree with Pat. Lady was my favorite villian. She had some noble qualities but
she was utterly ruthless in getting what she wanted.
Lee Childs
Pat & Ellen Hannum wrote:
> Tim McDowell wrote:
>
> >
> > > Here is another question to ponder, and I apologize if it this has already
> > > gone around:
> > >
> > > Who wins the "Most Evil Character" award in BC series?
> > >
> > My first thought was it must be either 'Catcher or Howler. Because these
> > are the characters we have contact with.
> > But then it came to me that almost everyone *really* feared the guy in
> > the ground, in his barrow.
> > [drum roll please.] Your friend and mine .... The Dominator!
> >
> > Tim McDowell
>
> Are yea all nuts? The award should to the Lady. She's about the
> coldest B***h I've ever read about. How many did she slaughter?
> Not only in the north, but also in the South? She "Took" how many
> wizards to help her? Did yea all forget her spider like abilities to create
> plots and run a empire so full of plots, counter plots and death?
>
> Everyone else are Pikers compared to her.
>
> Pat
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 12:57:38 -0500
From: "Jordan Raney" <jrraney@mediaone.net>
Subject: RE: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
Wright:"The Dominator or any other person ever actually succeeded in doin
some bad
shit of this magnitude, though not from a lack of effort."
Are you sure? I could be wrong but I thought I remember some brief talk
about the dominator's massive manslaughters, on the order of hundreds of
thousands of people. I thought it said this somewhere in the first 3 books.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Wright
Frazier
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:01 AM
To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
> > Who wins the "Most Evil Character" award in BC series?
>
> One of my personal favorites was always The Limper. He lived only on
> spite, hatred, and some magic to keep him alive. You gotta love spite.
> heh.
Easily Croaker was the most evil guy in the whole series. His obsession
with finding Katovhar killed thousands of friends so close he called them
brothers, destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of people (victims of the
shadow war), and in the end he murdered the population of a contient and
might have destroyed a world cause he didn't get what he wanted.
The Dominator or any other person ever actually succeeded in doin some bad
shit of this magnitude, though not from a lack of effort.
Wright
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 13:09:03 -0500
From: "Jordan Raney" <jrraney@mediaone.net>
Subject: RE: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
"a) Croaker lead the Black Company on his quest from the Barrowlands south
and started the Shadow War. In the process he raised numerous armies and
shattered them and destroyed nations. All in his insane quest to take some
books home.
b) He redefined a peace loving culture into a warlike one. (Taglians)"
Those two go together. The fact is, the shadowlords were already planning
to attack taglios (I believe) and if Croaker wouldn't have been there to
make them into a people that could defend themselves they would have been
destroyed or slaves to the shadowlords which is worse.
"Even the Dominator, Kina, Limper, and Catcher never attempted to destroy an
entire world on purpose out of something as petty as spite for interfering
with him."
Ahh, but they never had the means. And most of those you listed would never
have destroyed their world because it was the only one they knew of. I'm
quite sure that if they had the power to destroy the world and were losing a
war or something they would have destroyed the world so noone else could
rule it either.
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 12:22:51 -0600
From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live Spoilers Have Happened
To our friends in Poland,
Beware that Wright Frazier's email and its replies contain major spoilers
for Soldiers Live.
- --
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 12:17:27 -0700
From: Pat & Ellen Hannum <hanmac@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
Spoilers below........
Wright Frazier wrote:
> a) Croaker lead the Black Company on his quest from the Barrowlands south
> and started the Shadow War. In the process he raised numerous armies and
> shattered them and destroyed nations. All in his insane quest to take some
> books home.
Not insane, but driven by forces outside of his control.
Kina and others were involved in my opinion.
> b) He redefined a peace loving culture into a warlike one. (Taglians)
Nope, they invited him in. Remember that. They hired him, Smoke
and the Sister of the Ruler thought that they could use him.
> c) But the single most evil thing he did was without a doubt khatovar. He
> could just as easily have left the log buried in a place that wouldn't harm
> the gate, or not taken it at all. Instead he choose to bury it in a place
> where if it did go up big would destroy the gate, and in that destruction
> let loose a million shadows on that world that could end life on that world
> all together.
No. He figured that the "Masters of Khatovar" would be able to
kill or destroy the Shadows. It would just take them a very, very
long time. Remember also, They attacked him first, he did nothing
to them. He just "hoisted them on their own stupidity".
> Even the Dominator, Kina, Limper, and Catcher never attempted to destroy an
> entire world on purpose out of something as petty as spite for interfering
> with him. At least Longshadow had the excuse of bein a open looney.
> Croaker was very purposeful and direct in his attempt to destroy a world.
No, It they did not attempt to destroy him, follow him, they would have
been fine.... But you gotta admit, it was one hellova trap. Their own
cruelty and nastiness lead them to destroy the gate, without checking.
Go back and re-read that part. Croaker really did figure that they
could handle the shadows, it just would take them a very, very long
time.
>
> The Dominator, Kina, and Lady were all pretty damn evil folks no doubt, but
> they never attempted to destroy a world full of innocent people out of
> spite.
No Spite, survival of the Meanness. and remember again, ( don't you just
hate that "remember again" thing... note to self: find another way to
say things ) The Lady didn't argue, disagree or blink, in fact, she suggested,
urged and pushed. The Power behind the throne. Always.
> Wright
>
Pat
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 03:53:28 -0700
From: Bagel <bagaele@netzero.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
Ok, I think I have one for you. Someone who is actually good without any
evil.Make that 2 someones. Dean and Garrett. Garrett may not always have
been nice but he is almost an avatar of justice in how he deals with
situations. He never screwed someone who was the good guy.
David George wrote:
> hmm. read my own message and it looked a little cryptic to
> me so I'll do a little expansion.
>
> my thought is that calling croaker most evillest is
> probably an unpopular conclusion and one the opiner himself
> may not share: he may be trolling up some discussion. and
> since i'm writing, if that was his intent, he wins.
>
> by "back it up" i mean flesh out the allegations.
> frinstance: thousands of friends so close he called them
> brothers is a bit of an exaggeration i'm thinking. doubt
> that croaker had more than 100 friends in the whole series.
> comrades and brothers in arms are not the same as friends.
> as to the khatovar situation, he had help and he was
> provoked. in other words, start no fight you can't finish
> lest it finish you. don't pull a gun you won't shoot and
> when you shoot, aim to kill.
>
> is it body count that matters or intent? we get a lot of
> allusions to the bad old days of the dominator, someone so
> bad he united the world against him. same may be assumed
> of the guy under the tree. kina was bad enough to unite
> more than one world against her.
>
> croaker at least had friends. catcher could not manage
> that much. of course, her violent, psychotic episodes
> might have hindered her ability to reach out and love
> people.
>
> i'm sort of challenging wright's opinion without lining up
> firmly behind any one of my own. that is because i think
> the question is pointless with regard to the works of glen
> cook. across all genres and series. that is one reason i
> enjoy them so much. no one is completely bad or good.
> almost every character can, in their own mind, come up
> with some justification for their own actions. like life.
> but glen's books are more exciting than life. my life, at
> least, and i hope everyone else's as well.
>
> dg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David George
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 9:40 AM
> To: 'glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com'
> Subject: RE: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
>
> if yer trollin, you need to try a better bait. back it up,
> eh?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wright Frazier
> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:01 AM
> To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
>
> > > Who wins the "Most Evil Character" award in BC series?
> >
> > One of my personal favorites was always The Limper. He
> lived only on
> > spite, hatred, and some magic to keep him alive. You
> gotta love spite.
> > heh.
>
> Easily Croaker was the most evil guy in the whole series.
> His obsession
> with finding Katovhar killed thousands of friends so close
> he called them
> brothers, destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of
> people (victims of the
> shadow war), and in the end he murdered the population of a
> contient and
> might have destroyed a world cause he didn't get what he
> wanted.
>
> The Dominator or any other person ever actually succeeded
> in doin some bad
> shit of this magnitude, though not from a lack of effort.
>
> Wright
>
> ========================================================
> ===============
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
> list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
> ========================================================
> ===============
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
> list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
- ----------------------------------------------------
NetZero Platinum
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 03:56:05 -0700
From: Bagel <bagaele@netzero.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
Hmm, I think its time for a clarifying question. Is someone evil if they have
commited an evil act but are generally decent, or is evil the whole of the
person ?
Wright Frazier wrote:
> a) Croaker lead the Black Company on his quest from the Barrowlands south
> and started the Shadow War. In the process he raised numerous armies and
> shattered them and destroyed nations. All in his insane quest to take some
> books home.
>
> b) He redefined a peace loving culture into a warlike one. (Taglians)
>
> c) But the single most evil thing he did was without a doubt khatovar. He
> could just as easily have left the log buried in a place that wouldn't harm
> the gate, or not taken it at all. Instead he choose to bury it in a place
> where if it did go up big would destroy the gate, and in that destruction
> let loose a million shadows on that world that could end life on that world
> all together.
>
> Even the Dominator, Kina, Limper, and Catcher never attempted to destroy an
> entire world on purpose out of something as petty as spite for interfering
> with him. At least Longshadow had the excuse of bein a open looney.
> Croaker was very purposeful and direct in his attempt to destroy a world.
>
> The Dominator, Kina, and Lady were all pretty damn evil folks no doubt, but
> they never attempted to destroy a world full of innocent people out of
> spite.
>
> Wright
>
> > hmm. read my own message and it looked a little cryptic to
> > me so I'll do a little expansion.
> >
> > my thought is that calling croaker most evillest is
> > probably an unpopular conclusion and one the opiner himself
> > may not share: he may be trolling up some discussion. and
> > since i'm writing, if that was his intent, he wins.
> >
> > by "back it up" i mean flesh out the allegations.
> > frinstance: thousands of friends so close he called them
> > brothers is a bit of an exaggeration i'm thinking. doubt
> > that croaker had more than 100 friends in the whole series.
> > comrades and brothers in arms are not the same as friends.
> > as to the khatovar situation, he had help and he was
> > provoked. in other words, start no fight you can't finish
> > lest it finish you. don't pull a gun you won't shoot and
> > when you shoot, aim to kill.
> >
> > is it body count that matters or intent? we get a lot of
> > allusions to the bad old days of the dominator, someone so
> > bad he united the world against him. same may be assumed
> > of the guy under the tree. kina was bad enough to unite
> > more than one world against her.
> >
> > croaker at least had friends. catcher could not manage
> > that much. of course, her violent, psychotic episodes
> > might have hindered her ability to reach out and love
> > people.
> >
> > i'm sort of challenging wright's opinion without lining up
> > firmly behind any one of my own. that is because i think
> > the question is pointless with regard to the works of glen
> > cook. across all genres and series. that is one reason i
> > enjoy them so much. no one is completely bad or good.
> > almost every character can, in their own mind, come up
> > with some justification for their own actions. like life.
> > but glen's books are more exciting than life. my life, at
> > least, and i hope everyone else's as well.
> >
> > dg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David George
> > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 9:40 AM
> > To: 'glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com'
> > Subject: RE: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
> >
> > if yer trollin, you need to try a better bait. back it up,
> > eh?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wright Frazier
> > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:01 AM
> > To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> > Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Who wins the "Most Evil Character" award in BC series?
> > >
> > > One of my personal favorites was always The Limper. He
> > lived only on
> > > spite, hatred, and some magic to keep him alive. You
> > gotta love spite.
> > > heh.
> >
> > Easily Croaker was the most evil guy in the whole series.
> > His obsession
> > with finding Katovhar killed thousands of friends so close
> > he called them
> > brothers, destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of
> > people (victims of the
> > shadow war), and in the end he murdered the population of a
> > contient and
> > might have destroyed a world cause he didn't get what he
> > wanted.
> >
> > The Dominator or any other person ever actually succeeded
> > in doin some bad
> > shit of this magnitude, though not from a lack of effort.
> >
> > Wright
> >
> >
> >
> > ========================================================
> > ===============
> > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
> > list,
> > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
> > ========================================================
> > ===============
> > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
> > list,
> > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
> > =======================================================================
> > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
- ----------------------------------------------------
NetZero Platinum
Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month!
http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 22:12:58 +0200
From: "gwen1" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
Pat: I AM exaggerating. But I can't help liking Lady. She is awesome. She
HAS human feelings. Napoleon and Ceasar truly were brilliant. Were thay
considered evil? No. People voluntarily joined up with Napoleon. Romans
definately didn't loathe Ceasar. 'Sides- Lady was playing a big game. Try
playing a computer strategy game. See if you count all the dead- or hurry
create some new troops? Her point of view is definately that of a christian,
or a XXist centiries western culture member, or a buddist, etc. Looks more
like the wars with Carthage, hm? Traison, traison, blood, empires.... I
firmly believe that if you try to evaluate someone, you have to look at that
person's culture environment. Can't evaluate Attila the Hun, or Charles the
Great with our time moral code.
gwen
- --
"Everyone want's your good-
don't let them take it!"
Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
> > Well, I can see some good sides to her... loving, faithful, dependable,
> > brilliant, professional....
>
> Where was this? Oh, you mean the fact that she knew her empire was
> done and that she had lost her powers so it was time to get out of town?
> That's when she hooked up with Coaker. Caesar was a Pro, as was
> Napoleon. Both left rather impressive body counts all over and were
> considered "evil" .
>
> > excellent organizer, ingenious strategist...
> > skilled politician...
>
> So is about every Serial killer and most Dictators...
>
> > awesome mage. Plots, counter plots, casualities...
> > that's the part of the world she was born into.
>
> No, she helped create this with the Dominator.
>
> > Her Empire was quite peaceful, you know.
>
> > Not deaths for no reason, like earlier, in the
> > Dominator's times.
>
> No, it was quite firmly stated that the lords amused
> themselves by doing each other in, with her tact
> approval, as to make sure that they could not
> challenge her power and rules.
>
> No, she ruled by the terror of her power striking down
> any that opposed her. Large armies. Powerful wizards.
> When she lost all of them, she hid behind Croaker,
> Goblin and Oneye.
>
> > gwen
> >
>
> Pat
>
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 22:23:26 +0200
From: "gwen1" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) For everyone
> Hmm, I think its time for a clarifying question. Is someone evil if they
have
> commited an evil act but are generally decent, or is evil the whole of the
> person ?
Can answer to that without readeing thea spoiler (thanks, Eric):
Is evil not in every one? It doesn't make us evil- are we not the ones to
put it to work? Intentionwlly, or not...
gwen
- --
"Everyone want's your good-
don't let them take it!"
Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:59:11 -0400
From: "J. Dran" <dran204@hotmail.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) BC Movie
- ----Original Message Follows----
...
About to change the subject...
I would like to see the BC book series made into an animated movie
series...maybe done like Final Fantasy movie?
~Dreamer
___________________________
Or like "The Fellowship of the Ring" that's to be released. If there were
to be such a movie who do you think would be best to cast in the major
roles?
For starters, I can imagine Joe Peschi or Danny DiVito as Goblin. One-Eye,
I'm not sure. I'd cast for Limper the actor who was the villain in "Speed"
and "Blue Velvet." Can't remember his name off hand. Harrison Ford as
Croaker? He can be broody yet driven. Uma Thurman as Lady or Soulcatcher.
The tall guy from the Green Mile/Planet of Apes is a shoe in for Magoba.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
------------------------------
End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #132
***********************************
=======================================================================
To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.