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glencook-fans-digest      Wednesday, May 9 2001      Volume 01 : Number 101




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Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 18:56:56 -0000
From: "Joseph McGrath" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers

Well said Richard...
spoilers...



















About the training.... Remember in the letters Raven was writing to Croaker
about Bomanz's early life, before Bomanz decided to move to the barrowland
to try to milk knowledge from Lady? Raven wrote about there being a secret
school within a school. The black society or something? Obviously because
Raven was an alumni himself. And Bomanz was the best that that age put out.
Raven must have heard of Bomanz like he was some kind of legend or
something. I think that the school was in Opal.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 2:28 PM
Subject: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers


>
> Steve Harris wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> If you're just starting the books you don't want to read this.  It
> touches most (including the most recent) of the books.
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> > A Really Interesting question is this:  Does every generation have
> > wizards comparable to those of the Taken?  Or did the Dominator live
> > long enough to scoop up the Best and the Darkest over many generations?
> > I don't know that this is ever answered.
> >
>
> My view is that two of the Circle of 18 (Whisper and the General who
> gets taken out during the battle of Charm) rank up there with the Ten.
> Soulcatcher points out that Whisper is, and they need four Taken to
> remove the General.
> From what I can tell the age that saw the rise of the Dominator, Lady,
> and Ten was an age of high magic and lore where those with talent got
> trained, and the top twelve of the generation are all that survived.
>
> How important is training?  Look at a minor character in the second book
> - Whisper looks at her and says the Lady will be very interested in
> her.  She latter ends up as Shapeshifter's apprentice - and if her
> mentor wasn't killed might have reached his level of power.  Even half
> trained she was someone who gave One Eye and Goblin nightmares.
> And her talent was almost waisted.  She could have died from hunger in
> the slums of Jupiter, been knifed by a lover, or gone her whole live
> without training.
>
> > And just how often does someone like the Dominator--or the Lady--come
> > around?? Was there something in that era, several centuries ago, that
> > made it possible for that combination of raw talent, advanced
> > development of that talent, and unspeakable lack of humanity all to come
together?
> >
>
> I think so - that the culture was one of decadence where an ambitious
> girl could drown her twin sister when she'd 14 and still achive power
> (lack of humanity).  That magical training was common, and gifted
> students were sought out (combining the raw talent with advanced
> training).
>
> Then again, maybe it's just having near ultimate power.  Look at
> Soldiers Live.
> You got a boy with power.  He's on the edge of manhood, been trained by
> several different people, but is more or less a good boy.  Kind of a
> nice guy.
> A nice guy discovering that there may be no limit on his power.  Dad
> dies?  Make the bastards who did it pay and pay and pay - and there's no
> immediate payback.  At some point he has to know that people know he did
> it and they aren't doing anything about it because he's too useful to
> the War.  Or maybe it's that he's too powerful for them to stop?  Maybe
> they all secretly fear his power?
>
> Talk about a head trip - and we're talking about someone who is nice to
> start with, raised by those who knew he would be a power.
>
> I'm pretty sure there's a point in Soldiers Live where the Lady puts the
> temptation of power in words - think it was when they were discussing if
> a certain nice guy's mother would drag her son's spirit into the lands
> of the dead to stop him from going bad.
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 20:10:54 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers

Joseph McGrath wrote:
>
> Well said Richard...
> spoilers...
>

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.

> About the training.... Remember in the letters Raven was writing to Croaker
> about Bomanz's early life, before Bomanz decided to move to the barrowland
> to try to milk knowledge from Lady?

His quest for knowledge was one of his driving goals - in the letters.
But those letters were written after his defeat in the barrowlands by
someone's kid sister.

> Raven wrote about there being a secret
> school within a school. The black society or something?

Black collage?  Unseen Collage?  Something like that.

> Obviously because
> Raven was an alumni himself. And Bomanz was the best that that age put out.
> Raven must have heard of Bomanz like he was some kind of legend or
> something. I think that the school was in Opal.

Bromaz was a legend because of what he did, not because of where he
studied.  He opened the way for the great evils of yesterday to return.
In the letters there was something about the son studying there, and how
some of the older masters remembered Bromanz's name.  I get the feeling
that Bromanz had an old grudge against someone of them - something about
those people trembling when they heard that Bromanz had the Lady's
secrets.

If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a
post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during
the Dominion.  He was definately better than some of the later Taken,
and way better than those running things after the Lady left.

Richard

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:59:33 -0500
From: Stacey Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers

Richard,

(spoiler space on first Black Company books)
 .
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.

Nice speculation there on Bomanz's rank in things:

"If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a
post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during
the Dominion.  He was definately better than some of the later Taken"

I agree.  And that gives some measure of answer to my question about how
often a Dominator (or Lady) might arise:  Some 4 centuries later (I'm
not certain of the timeline--how long after the Opening does The Black
Company commence?), there is, apparently, only one practitioner in the
North who even comes close to being used in comparison with the Mighty
Ones.  So maybe an actual Dominator-level character comes along only
once in a millenium or thereabouts.

Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad
Dominator-type?  Her level would come along every couple millenia or so, maybe.

Steve

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:52:52 -0500
From: "PrimalChrome" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers

Actually I'd always thought of him as a bit the opposite.  The reason he
*didn't* end up a Whisper was because he was so successful.  Successful in
both the arts and in camoflage.  In his younger years he was probably a
match for any of the middle or lower end Taken.  Even in his twilight years
he was able to negotiate the Barrowland (the best voodoo security system
that could be produced in the age of the Dominator) and go toe to toe with a
Dragon.

Too many people are remembering Bomanz as just that harmless little
archeologist that dug through graves for rusty helms.


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Chilton" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains
spoilers


> Joseph McGrath wrote:
> If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a
> post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during
> the Dominion.  He was definately better than some of the later Taken,
> and way better than those running things after the Lady left.



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:26:17 +0200
From: "gwen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>

> 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they
> work for Raker, or the Limper or who?

They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool
them, but in general there is a war.
>
> 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league
> with the Taken or not?

She is always an enemy of the empire.
>
> 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or
are
> they something much more bizarre?

Wizards, naturally ;)
>
> If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!

No problem.

> -dan
Gwen



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 12:45:40 -0500
From: Stacey Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>

Gwen,

I think you mis-state things here about what the Black Company calls
"the Rebel":

"They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool
them, but in general there is a war."

We know of no instance of rebellion during the Domination, so how can we
say the Dominator fooled any rebels?  Actually, we know practically
nothing about that period--just that the Dominator ruled things with a
ruthless hand, including getting himself the Taken.

(Was there war during the Domination, much like in the present era with
the Lady's Empire?  Or was the Dominator so all-powerful that he just
Stomped on opposition, so there was nothing so organized as war?  I tend
to agree with you that there was likely war, probably more ruthless and
awful than the Lady's war; the Dominator wasn't really God-like, I think.)

It's probably a good guess (given the Dominator's lack of humanity) that
in the era of the Domination, the Dominator's rule was horrid,
totalitarian, and hellish.  But in the era of the Lady's rule, that's a
lot less clear.  She actually sets up a pretty efficient bureaucracy,
and we don't see any specific cruelty under her reign, except for when
some of her soldiers (notably those under the Limper) get a taste for
abusing civilians.  Probably the main Evil she represents is just
expanding her Empire in standard imperial manner--i.e., make war on
anyone who opposes you.

Steve

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 19:57:31 +0200
From: "gwen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>

> I think you mis-state things here about what the Black Company calls
> "the Rebel":
>
> "They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
> totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can
fool
> them, but in general there is a war."
>
> We know of no instance of rebellion during the Domination, so how can we
> say the Dominator fooled any rebels?  Actually, we know practically
> nothing about that period--just that the Dominator ruled things with a
> ruthless hand, including getting himself the Taken.
>
> (Was there war during the Domination, much like in the present era with
> the Lady's Empire?  Or was the Dominator so all-powerful that he just
> Stomped on opposition, so there was nothing so organized as war?  I tend
> to agree with you that there was likely war, probably more ruthless and
> awful than the Lady's war; the Dominator wasn't really God-like, I think.)
>
> It's probably a good guess (given the Dominator's lack of humanity) that
> in the era of the Domination, the Dominator's rule was horrid,
> totalitarian, and hellish.  But in the era of the Lady's rule, that's a
> lot less clear.  She actually sets up a pretty efficient bureaucracy,
> and we don't see any specific cruelty under her reign, except for when
> some of her soldiers (notably those under the Limper) get a taste for
> abusing civilians.  Probably the main Evil she represents is just
> expanding her Empire in standard imperial manner--i.e., make war on
> anyone who opposes you.
>
> Steve
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 20:10:41 +0200
From: "gwen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>

- --
> I think you mis-state things here about what the Black Company calls
> "the Rebel":
>
> "They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
> totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can
fool
> them, but in general there is a war."
>
> We know of no instance of rebellion during the Domination, so how can we
> say the Dominator fooled any rebels?  Actually, we know practically
> nothing about that period--just that the Dominator ruled things with a
> ruthless hand, including getting himself the Taken.

It was when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to  make some
of the Circle to help his cause, because they thought they could use him.
The first Cronicle.
'>
> (Was there war during the Domination, much like in the present era with
> the Lady's Empire?  Or was the Dominator so all-powerful that he just
> Stomped on opposition, so there was nothing so organized as war?  I tend
> to agree with you that there was likely war, probably more ruthless and
> awful than the Lady's war; the Dominator wasn't really God-like, I think.)

In the same chronicle, the Doctor (I don't know his name in English),
specifically says, that what hthe people feared was the coming back of a
total system. Or rather, an order of total fear.
>
> It's probably a good guess (given the Dominator's lack of humanity) that
> in the era of the Domination, the Dominator's rule was horrid,
> totalitarian, and hellish.

But in the era of the Lady's rule, that's a
> lot less clear.  She actually sets up a pretty efficient bureaucracy,
> and we don't see any specific cruelty under her reign, except for when
> some of her soldiers (notably those under the Limper) get a taste for
> abusing civilians.  Probably the main Evil she represents is just
> expanding her Empire in standard imperial manner--i.e., make war on
> anyone who opposes you.

Yes, this is what makes the chronicles so juicy, this understatement of
moral descriptions- the Company is a bunch of rapists and beasts, except for
the commanders. The Lady is a good manager, and is able to love. This hint
of a horrid past is a very probable thread. People tend to forget the
details of the past, keeping in their memory only a sketch of the situation-
if it is not too personal. So putting the great evil in the past is very
probable, because if closer looked at, it may show other facets. We know
that the Dominator was a very powerful magician, and a great general- he was
winning for a long time, till his power was nullified. It's like the guns
suddenly just stopped shooting- find me a general who can immediately win in
a world without ranged weapons nowadays.. Ant the great evil in the south
doesn't ruin my interpretation- the more facts Glen gives, the more tangible
Kina looks. She was sent on a mission, right?


Gwen



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:11:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Igor Filippov <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>

The Empire was "such a horrid totalitarian hell" ?????
I had an impression that was what rebel propaganda tried to brainwash
common folk into thinking. There're plenty of evidence that Lady's
leadership was quite beneficial for people in a lot of ways. To name
one there's a discussion about cultivating medicinal herbs that made
Croaker ask himself - would a total Evil worry about medicine for common
people ?

Rebels on the other hand weren't shy to employ the very same cruel methods
they were accusing Lady of using....
Croaker describes Rebels as anything but sweet idealistic fighters for
freedom.
So I wouldn't rush to call Lady's Empire a "horrid totalitarian hell"
"Totalitarian" - maybe. "Hell" it was not.

Igor


On Wed, 9 May 2001, gwen wrote:

> > 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they
> > work for Raker, or the Limper or who?
>
> They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
> totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool
> them, but in general there is a war.
> >
> > 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league
> > with the Taken or not?
>
> She is always an enemy of the empire.
> >
> > 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or
> are
> > they something much more bizarre?
>
> Wizards, naturally ;)
> >
> > If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!
>
> No problem.
>
> > -dan
> Gwen
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 15:25:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Igor Filippov <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers

About 'periodicity of Domination' -

In the first few books it's mentioned quite a few times (though never
really explained if it's a myth or a fact) that rises and falls of the
Dominator(s) are related to the passing of the comet. Every
20-40 years (I don't remember exactly) it passes Earth (or whatever the
planet might be called) and every 400 years it comes very close to the
planet.

Then, somewhere in one of the latest books there's a discussion about
the ways to get rid of a wizard the scale of Dominator - "you can put
his soul in a metal spike, bury it under a Tree-God from another dimension
or throw it at a passing comet" - again, don't remember exact words, but
there was mentioning of a comet as a place to bury unwanted extra-powerful
wizards.

Which brings us to an interesting (to me anyway :) ) conjecture -
what if, some time long-long ago some ancient Dominator, the very first
of its kind, was buried in a comet, and that is why we have waves of
Dominators coming with a period of 400 years along with the comet.

Does it sound like a possible scenario ?

Igor


On Tue, 8 May 2001, Stacey Harris wrote:

> Richard,
>
> (spoiler space on first Black Company books)
>  .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> Nice speculation there on Bomanz's rank in things:
>
> "If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a
> post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during
> the Dominion.  He was definately better than some of the later Taken"
>
> I agree.  And that gives some measure of answer to my question about how
> often a Dominator (or Lady) might arise:  Some 4 centuries later (I'm
> not certain of the timeline--how long after the Opening does The Black
> Company commence?), there is, apparently, only one practitioner in the
> North who even comes close to being used in comparison with the Mighty
> Ones.  So maybe an actual Dominator-level character comes along only
> once in a millenium or thereabouts.
>
> Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad
> Dominator-type?  Her level would come along every couple millenia or so, maybe.
>
> Steve
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 16:25:45 -0500
From: Stacey Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) names

Gwen,

Ah, right you are; I forgot about that:

"when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to  make some
of the Circle to help his cause"

On names of characters:

"the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)"

He's called "Croaker".  I think we're supposed to read that ironically,
in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die".

What are all the main characters called in other languages?  Here are
the chief ones in my count:

Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
One-Eye (black wizard)
Goblin (short white wizard)
Silent (tall white wizard)
Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
the Lady (later called just "Lady")
Sleepy (in the later books)

It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
other languages.

I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
"Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
Lieutenant").

Steve

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:34:31 -0700
From: Gray Lowell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: (glencook-fans) names

> On Wednesday, May 9, 2001, at 02:25 PM, Stacey Harris wrote:
>>
>> What are all the main characters called in other languages?  Here are
>> the chief ones in my count:
>>
>> Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
>> One-Eye (black wizard)
>> Goblin (short white wizard)
>> Silent (tall white wizard)
>> Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
>> the Lady (later called just "Lady")
>> Sleepy (in the later books)
>>
>> It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
>> other languages.
>>
>> I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
>> "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
>> Lieutenant").
>>
>
> add to that
>
> darling
> big bucket
> mercy
> tom-tom
> smoke
>
> frankly i m more curious about the names of the taken
>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 18:07:17 -0000
From: "Joseph McGrath" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names

I believe the reason Croaker is called Croaker is that he is a physician.
During primitive times you usually died when they had to call the doctor.
Hence, Croaker is slang for Doctor. People were deathly afraid of doctors
because when someone called the doctor it meant you were on the way out.
When you read, "The Garrett Files," There is something about, when you get
sent to the Bledsoe charity hospital you never leave except for a one way
trip to the boneyard.
spoilers...

















Recall how Croaker is always bemoaning the fact that he doesn't do near as
much as he could for the wounded. But! If he had a good team of compitent
surgeons he would have, "a good chance of doing some good for a change."
(Battle at the Stair of Tear.)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stacey Harris <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:25 PM
Subject: (glencook-fans) names


> Gwen,
>
> Ah, right you are; I forgot about that:
>
> "when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to  make some
> of the Circle to help his cause"
>
> On names of characters:
>
> "the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)"
>
> He's called "Croaker".  I think we're supposed to read that ironically,
> in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die".
>
> What are all the main characters called in other languages?  Here are
> the chief ones in my count:
>
> Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
> One-Eye (black wizard)
> Goblin (short white wizard)
> Silent (tall white wizard)
> Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
> the Lady (later called just "Lady")
> Sleepy (in the later books)
>
> It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
> other languages.
>
> I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
> "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
> Lieutenant").
>
> Steve
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 17:42:01 -0400
From: "Wheeler, Brooke" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) names

FYI: In English, "Croaker" is slang for doctor, ironically enough... kind of
like shrink=psychologist.

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Stacey
Harris
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 2:26 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: (glencook-fans) names


Gwen,

Ah, right you are; I forgot about that:

"when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to  make some
of the Circle to help his cause"

On names of characters:

"the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)"

He's called "Croaker".  I think we're supposed to read that ironically,
in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die".

What are all the main characters called in other languages?  Here are
the chief ones in my count:

Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
One-Eye (black wizard)
Goblin (short white wizard)
Silent (tall white wizard)
Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
the Lady (later called just "Lady")
Sleepy (in the later books)

It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
other languages.

I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
"Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
Lieutenant").

Steve

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