ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/glencook-fans/archive/v01.n033

Internet Message Format | 2000-09-14 | 43KB

From: [e-mail] (glencook-fans-digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: glencook-fans-digest V1 #33
Reply-To: glencook-fans-digest
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


glencook-fans-digest    Friday, September 15 2000    Volume 01 : Number 033




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:24:09 -0500
From: "David George" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) A Different but Related Dread Empire question

Work backwards from the current state of affairs in publishing.  Assume some
typical hardcover price.  Let's say 26.00 per book retail (Soldiers Live was
25.95).  Knock off 20% because so will Amazon.  We're down around 20 bucks a
copy (fudging, but let's keep the numbers nice and round).  Let's assume
that wholesale the book costs half that (again, fudging here, the big
dealers probably get a better deal and early orders are probably cheaper
too).  That means that the publisher gets about 10 bucks gross per unit.
I'm guessing.

Now, how many units does the publisher have to move to consider the book a
commercial success?  Not a Stephen King success, but a Glen Cook success?
Let's pluck a nice round number out of the air and say 10,000 units.  Times
ten bucks, they are looking for a gross of around $100,000.  Let's be wild
and crazy and guess that they get a margin of 25%, 25 grand after everyone
gets paid.  That is probably 2x or more what it really is.  On 75K expenses.

Take all these numbers with more than a grain of salt.  Try a salt lick.
Someone with more publishing experience should weigh in with an opinion
here, but I suspect that my numbers are too optimistic, in terms of
expenses, margins, and minimum print runs and sales.

How much lower can we expect the expenses of the imagined deal to be?  Not
much.  A lot of money is spent up front on setting up presses and the like.
Once they get cranking, printing costs go down per unit as the number of
units increase, reaching some eventual break even point.

The gist of all the gesticulating is that book publishing, as we have known
it, is expensive.  For 1000 books or 10,000 books.  So expensive that it has
attracted people with big computers and print-on-demand machines.  So
expensive that B&N is planning to roll out hundreds of such machines over
the next year or so.

The ideal would be that eliminating the expenses and inventory of the
current print-thousands-and-hope-they-sell will cause publishers to take
more chances.  If you take the traditional printing out of the deal, then
what you have are production costs (art, writing, editing) and promotion
costs.  What looked like a loser when you had to print thousands of books
that might never sell might be worth a chance when you don't have to print
any.  Or even promote it if you don't want.

Of course, that leaves the author and the fan base to do the promoting.  It
is probably going to get easier to "find a publisher" for your work (some
will take 100 bucks and do the basics for you today) but the writer will do
more work.  Until they are famous enough to not need it so badly.

I hear a lot of people talk about "vanity press" when they discuss print on
demand.  In the next two years, we shall see, but I think the big publishers
take it very seriously.

Which means, wait a while.  Maybe that last DE book will come out anyway.
Certainly much of the OOP list should find its way back into print via
print-on-demand.  Glen Cook should not be an exception to this trend.

DG

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Burner <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) A Different but Related Dread Empire question


> Christopher,
>
> A variation on this theme: how about a dutch auction, i.e. mercata.com,
for
> the legendary DE book that has already been written but never published?
> For example, would TOR or NEFSA agree to publish the book if 1000(?)
people
> agreed to pay $50.00(?) in advance for the first printing?  If not enough
> people agreed in advance, then the book does not get published.  If more
> than 1000 people agreed in advance to buy the book, then the price would
go
> lower.  The level of interest could be determined by having mercata.com,
or
> some other site, conduct a dutch auction with deposits being taken to
> determine actual interest in purchasing the book.  The deposit could be
held
> in an escrow account until the book is actually published.
>
> Do you think a professional publisher would be interested in the idea
above?
> How many guaranteed sales dollars would be required to interest a
publisher
> like TOR?
>
> Gary
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 9:25 PM
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) A Different but Related Dread Empire question
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 9/13/00 3:11:03 PM, [e-mail] writes:
> >
> > >why don't we (we being the body of persons who are active on this list)
> > >commission glen cook to finish the dread empire sequels?
> >
> > Let me step up to bash the idea. As far as I know, no one on this list
is
> > a professional publisher, so basically you're asking Cook to trust a
bunch
> > of amateurs that have no qualifications other than that they are fans
> > of his.
> >
> > If I were Cook and offered a choice between a contract with Tor or
> > a handful of cash to write another book in a failed series...well, the
> > choice isn't hard. No way in hell you'd get me to write a NEW book.
> >
> >
> > This said....
> >
> > My guess is that you will see new DE books. Cook now has the level of
> > popularity where he would start seeing some reissues. I could see NEFSA
> > picking up the earlier books (or mishla-merlin [sp? can't remember the
> > spelling] or Tor. I'm guessing that some time in the new ten years you
> > will see an Omnibus or a trade reissue.
> >
> >
> > christopher....
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:18:16 -0400
From: "Joshua Peery" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cook and Print on Demand

IMHO ..   it seems to me that Cook is a kinda "stuck" in 1970's mode of
thinking ... no computers... hanging out at conventions... and other things
that strike me as "old-fashioned"  .. Think Cook would actually consider
using a publishing method(print on demand) that is outside his "comfort
zone" ?  If Cook had promoted himself a little more, Croaker could of have
been the "Drizz't Do'Urden" of the fantasy world.  I think Cook writes
because he enjoys it, and does not seem to care wether his books are
successful out on the market or if other people like them even, only that he
gets paid by his publisher for what he writes, since he quit his day job.
I think if someone ponied the money Cook expected to get from this DE book,
AND retain his rights to it, AND not breach any contracts he may have with
his current publisher,  I think the book could be published.




=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 07:32:34 -0700
From: "Tim McDowell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cook and Print on Demand

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Peery <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cook and Print on Demand


> IMHO ..   it seems to me that Cook is a kinda "stuck" in 1970's mode of
> thinking ... no computers... hanging out at conventions... and other
things
> that strike me as "old-fashioned"  .. Think Cook would actually consider
> using a publishing method(print on demand) that is outside his "comfort
> zone" ?  If Cook had promoted himself a little more, Croaker could of have
> been the "Drizz't Do'Urden" of the fantasy world.  I think Cook writes
> because he enjoys it, and does not seem to care wether his books are
> successful out on the market or if other people like them even, only that
he
> gets paid by his publisher for what he writes, since he quit his day job.
> I think if someone ponied the money Cook expected to get from this DE
book,
> AND retain his rights to it, AND not breach any contracts he may have with
> his current publisher,  I think the book could be published.
>
    You arguements could very well be correct. But may I present some thing;
as an example, that could take this in a different direction.
    While following links one day, I stumbled onto the following site.

http://www.classicbookshelf.com/

    Now I don't know enough about it to put forward an opinion, but could
something like what was done at this site be possible?

    Just a thought. Have a great day and enjoy the olympics.

    Tim




=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:07:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cook and Print on Demand

Also wik Joshua Peery:
>
>IMHO ..   it seems to me that Cook is a kinda "stuck" in 1970's mode of
>thinking ... no computers... hanging out at conventions... and other things
>that strike me as "old-fashioned"  .. Think Cook would actually consider
>using a publishing method(print on demand) that is outside his "comfort
>zone" ?  If Cook had promoted himself a little more, Croaker could of have
>been the "Drizz't Do'Urden" of the fantasy world.

    Going to conventions *is* self-promotion.  There isn't much beyond
that kind of thing that authors can do to promote themselves without
spending a lot of money or else a lot of time.  Promoting yourself online
is a time consuming task (and that's what we're for ;-).  Plus, as you
pointed out Cook isn't a big computer fan.  I agree that Cook is more
interested in writing than in promoting.

                Steve


=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:56:05 -0500
From: David Ainsworth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) SL Dangling threads (Spoilers)

I have observed that part of the way Cook designs his plots is to generate a
lot of dangling plot threads.  I like his work in part because it is complex
enough that I can't predict what's going to happen... or, I can't do so much
in advance of the characters in the story.  And his habit of leaving lots of
threads dangling both adds to that unpredictability, and makes it easier for
him to write sequels or have something subtle from an earlier book end up
being more important than it seemed.

So, in the spirit of the "is he done with BC" topic, I'd like to open
discussion of the threads Cook's left hanging at the end of Soldiers Live.

SPOILER SPACE
.
.
.
.
.
.
Let me just expand on the ideas I've already read here...

Besides the obvious ('Catcher, Booboo, etc), what is going to happen with
Tobo/Thi Kim?  At the end of SL he still hasn't gotten his new "name," nor
has he seemed to earn it.  I was expecting after Water Sleeps that he was
destined to slay Kina, but events don't seem to have borne that hypothesis out.

The Lance of Passion may have fertilized Kina in some way (that's certainly
the impression one gets reading Goblin's description of what happened to
it).  What's the gestation period of a god?  Could Kina's spawn have been
released in some way before she was killed?  Might she in some way have put
her claws into Tobo (who seemed to have a special attraction to her, and
seems vulnerable after his parents are slain)?

A lot of BC (and Cook in general) is about perspective.  All the religious
info we get and the varying myths concerning Kina must add up to some sort
of picture.  Is there any truth in the perspective Booboo gives us?  Was
Kina created as a sort of Grandfather Tree or other form of Dominator/evil
cleansing?  If so, did she become what she was created/endowed to fight, or
not?  And will the Lords of Light find a replacement faster than Croaker
seems to think they will?

Cook has stressed the pattern of ancient powerful evil coming to ascendency
and being contained but not destroyed.  Presumably this pattern holds true
in Khatovar.  With the gate broken and shadows running rampant there, one
presumes that only a real heavyweight (like the Dominator) is going to be
able to keep himself going.  When the shadows are on a rampage, might they
disrupt some sort of Barrowland arrangement and unleash something with the
capacity to repair the gate?

For that matter, what is the source/meaning of the broomsticks (the flying
poles)?  My impression at the end is that the explosion of the pole was at
least as much a cause of Kina's death as One-eye's spear.  Who made these
things, and for what ultimate purpose?

David


=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:13:16 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cook and Print on Demand

Joshua Peery wrote:
>
> IMHO ..   it seems to me that Cook is a kinda "stuck" in 1970's mode of
> thinking ... no computers... hanging out at conventions... and other things
> that strike me as "old-fashioned"  .. Think Cook would actually consider
> using a publishing method(print on demand) that is outside his "comfort
> zone" ?  If Cook had promoted himself a little more, Croaker could of have
> been the "Drizz't Do'Urden" of the fantasy world.  I think Cook writes
> because he enjoys it, and does not seem to care wether his books are
> successful out on the market or if other people like them even, only that he
> gets paid by his publisher for what he writes, since he quit his day job.
> I think if someone ponied the money Cook expected to get from this DE book,
> AND retain his rights to it, AND not breach any contracts he may have with
> his current publisher,  I think the book could be published.
>

I disagree - I think that if there was real money involved he'd get
involved.  Cook doesn't have to understand how it works - that's what
his agent is for.
Cook only writes books that have been sold to publishers.  When he
realized there was that mix up over the number of books he had sold he
stopped work on the last book of a trilogy (_The Glittering Stone_,
third book of the South) and moved on to other projects.
He's had that rule since he counted the number of wasted hours he spent
writing that unpublished Dread Empire book.  Would you or I say it was
wasted time? Probably not, but since he wasn't paid for the book it was
time he could have been using to earn money.  He realized he couldn't
afford to write even a short story for his own enjoyment.
During the long wait for the _The Glittering Stone_ I heard (and this
might not be accurate) that the reason Cook was only writting 2 books a
year was a lack of time.  He couldn't work full time and produce more,
and he had to work full time.  While he's now retired he couldn't
support his family on with the money he made writting.
His highest earning year to that point (when the 3 in 1 Black Company
club book was issued) was around $14 000.  He sold, but he wasn't on
best seller lists.  If there was any way he could make the best seller
lists he would take it.

If his agent went to him tomorrow and told him there was a way for him
to make decent money from his backlist, I can't see Cook getting
concerned over whether it was a new way of selling books.  Alas, the
Printing On Demand business models still need work, and many of the
companies doing it are basically vanity presses.

In my view the reason Crocker isn't Drizz't Do'Urden has more to do with
the maturity of Cook's subject matter and his style rather than self
promotion.
Look at _The Black Company_:
the 'heros' betraying their contract,
the murder of the garrison as they were leaving town,
working for the evil side,
One Eye's "paying" for that last round in Opal,
Raven killing his wife in cold blood,
an entire village (including babies) being wiped out,
Darling's childhood gang rape at the hands of drunken soldiers,
etc.

That's mature reading.  The style is dark and gritty.  It's not mass
market, but it's Glen Cook's style of writing.  I like it, you like, but
some parents wouldn't want their teen reading it.

Look at the Icewind Dale books that introduced Drizz't Do'Urden:
Supported by the whole D&D fan base,
sterotypical 'Old Dwarf, Halfling thief, Young Woman, Young Barbarian
Male, and Elf (dark elf in this case) fighting the forces of evil while
helping the weak' plot,
no grey - only "good vs evil",
nothing that would risk an R rating - maybe PG at worst.

Not that I have anything against Salitoria (probably spelled his name
wrong) but the first books in the series, the ones that made Drizz't
Do'Urden famous and worth doing more books on, were early books for
him.  I could be wrong, but I think they were his first books.  As his
writings matured he tackled more difficult subject matter but those
first books were mass market pulp.

That said, at one point (years and years ago) there was talk of
re-issuing the Dread Empire novels for The Forgotten Realms setting, but
it never went beyond the option stage.

Salitoria didn't promote himself when he started writting about Drizz't
Do'Urden - TSR promoted him.  Cook's publishers have pushed his books a
bit but not to the same extent.

Richard

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:28:25 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL Dangling threads (Spoilers)

David Ainsworth wrote:
>
> I have observed that part of the way Cook designs his plots is to generate a
> lot of dangling plot threads.  I like his work in part because it is complex
> enough that I can't predict what's going to happen... or, I can't do so much
> in advance of the characters in the story.  And his habit of leaving lots of
> threads dangling both adds to that unpredictability, and makes it easier for
> him to write sequels or have something subtle from an earlier book end up
> being more important than it seemed.
>

Sometimes he never gets back to those threads, or they become too
tangled.  Garnet and his various relations with his girlfriends come to
mind as a big tangle.

> So, in the spirit of the "is he done with BC" topic, I'd like to open
> discussion of the threads Cook's left hanging at the end of Soldiers Live.
>

Personally, I hope he's done.

> SPOILER SPACE
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> Let me just expand on the ideas I've already read here...
>
> Besides the obvious ('Catcher, Booboo, etc), what is going to happen with
> Tobo/Thi Kim?  At the end of SL he still hasn't gotten his new "name," nor
> has he seemed to earn it.  I was expecting after Water Sleeps that he was
> destined to slay Kina, but events don't seem to have borne that hypothesis out.
>

I think Tobo will either become a good guy sorcerer or die.  Er, make
that have mommy, grandma, and great grand ma invite him to live full
time in the spirit world (so his body dies).  If he lives, his destiny
seems to lie with the Forgotten Shadows rather than the Black Company.

> The Lance of Passion may have fertilized Kina in some way (that's certainly
> the impression one gets reading Goblin's description of what happened to
> it).  What's the gestation period of a god?  Could Kina's spawn have been
> released in some way before she was killed?  Might she in some way have put
> her claws into Tobo (who seemed to have a special attraction to her, and
> seems vulnerable after his parents are slain)?
>

Interesting theory.

> A lot of BC (and Cook in general) is about perspective.  All the religious
> info we get and the varying myths concerning Kina must add up to some sort
> of picture.  Is there any truth in the perspective Booboo gives us?  Was
> Kina created as a sort of Grandfather Tree or other form of Dominator/evil
> cleansing?  If so, did she become what she was created/endowed to fight, or
> not?  And will the Lords of Light find a replacement faster than Croaker
> seems to think they will?
>

Personally, I think she was eating the evil of the world.  The 'fall
into a coma and die' thing that happened to one of the sorcerer kids and
Soulcatcher was probably Kina eating them.  Even the death of the
werecat seemed too easy to Lady.
As for the plans of Gods, I'd say they take a long, long time.

> Cook has stressed the pattern of ancient powerful evil coming to ascendency
> and being contained but not destroyed.  Presumably this pattern holds true
> in Khatovar.  With the gate broken and shadows running rampant there, one
> presumes that only a real heavyweight (like the Dominator) is going to be
> able to keep himself going.  When the shadows are on a rampage, might they
> disrupt some sort of Barrowland arrangement and unleash something with the
> capacity to repair the gate?
>

The Gate was repaired.  90% of the Shadows were dead by the time Crocker
pulled his rescue mission.  I don't think the Family was keeping
something under control - their utter lack of respect for history seems
to point away from that.

> For that matter, what is the source/meaning of the broomsticks (the flying
> poles)?  My impression at the end is that the explosion of the pole was at
> least as much a cause of Kina's death as One-eye's spear.  Who made these
> things, and for what ultimate purpose?
>

The Family made the broomsticks, but where did they (the Family) come
from?  The Family and the Shadow Masters all seemed to have the same
source, which Crocker hints is important.  The marking on the
broomsticks are similar to ones in the circles on the Plain.
Which brings up one of the biggest loose threads I noticed.  At one
point when someone dies Crocker wonders if that death has cause a new
pillar to appear on the Plain.

Richard

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:56:11 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (glencook-fans) Soulcatcher

Is it my imagination (or limited memory, because this is a spur-of-the-moment coment), or did Cook never show Soulcatcher "soul-catching"?

Croaker mentions that the voices are those of the people she has killed, but I don't recall a recent kill's voice coming back to haunt any of the Company...that would have been an interesting scene.

Win

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:10:29 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soulcatcher

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Is it my imagination (or limited memory, because this is a spur-of-the-moment coment), or did Cook never show Soulcatcher "soul-catching"?
>
> Croaker mentions that the voices are those of the people she has killed, but I don't recall a recent kill's voice coming back to haunt any of the Company...that would have been an interesting scene.
>

This is based on memory, so I might have a detail or two wrong, but:

In the first book, when one of the circle goes down and 3 of Ten stand
around watching one their number (Hanged Man?) die Crocker sees Catcher
disolve into a mist that evelopes some soldiers.  The soldiers collapse
lifelessly to the ground without a mark on them.
I think that was Soulcatcher taking their souls.  She never killed any
of the Company like that, so we never heard their voices.

Richard

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:24:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Dutton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soulcatcher

- --- Richard Chilton <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > Is it my imagination (or limited memory, because this is a
> spur-of-the-moment coment), or did Cook never show Soulcatcher
> "soul-catching"?
> >
> > Croaker mentions that the voices are those of the people she has killed,
> but I don't recall a recent kill's voice coming back to haunt any of the
> Company...that would have been an interesting scene.
> >
>
> This is based on memory, so I might have a detail or two wrong, but:
>
> In the first book, when one of the circle goes down and 3 of Ten stand
> around watching one their number (Hanged Man?) die Crocker sees Catcher
> disolve into a mist that evelopes some soldiers.  The soldiers collapse
> lifelessly to the ground without a mark on them.
> I think that was Soulcatcher taking their souls.  She never killed any
> of the Company like that, so we never heard their voices.

I just assumed the Soulcataching was a time intensive ritual that didn't lend
itself to wartime, possibly including a period of mental adjustment while the
absorbed soul was 'put in its place'.

Craig
>
> Richard
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:26:31 -0500
From: Steve Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cook and Print on Demand

Richard,

What is this fascinating publishing history you're referring to?

"When he
realized there was that mix up over the number of books he had sold he
stopped work on the last book of a trilogy (_The Glittering Stone_,
third book of the South) and moved on to other projects.
He's had that rule since he counted the number of wasted hours he spent
writing that unpublished Dread Empire book."

Steve

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:35:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Igor Filippov <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL Dangling threads (Spoilers)

To follow the spirit of the series it would seem more appropriate for
Tobo to become a bad guy (Dominator scale), who will have  to be killed
either by Croaker's adopted or natural daughter(s)

Richard, why are you always call Croaker "crocker" ?
Just out of curiosity - I stumble upon this typo over and over again...

Igor


On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Richard Chilton wrote:

> David Ainsworth wrote:
> >
> > I have observed that part of the way Cook designs his plots is to generate a
> > lot of dangling plot threads.  I like his work in part because it is complex
> > enough that I can't predict what's going to happen... or, I can't do so much
> > in advance of the characters in the story.  And his habit of leaving lots of
> > threads dangling both adds to that unpredictability, and makes it easier for
> > him to write sequels or have something subtle from an earlier book end up
> > being more important than it seemed.
> >
>
> Sometimes he never gets back to those threads, or they become too
> tangled.  Garnet and his various relations with his girlfriends come to
> mind as a big tangle.
>
> > So, in the spirit of the "is he done with BC" topic, I'd like to open
> > discussion of the threads Cook's left hanging at the end of Soldiers Live.
> >
>
> Personally, I hope he's done.
>
> > SPOILER SPACE
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > Let me just expand on the ideas I've already read here...
> >
> > Besides the obvious ('Catcher, Booboo, etc), what is going to happen with
> > Tobo/Thi Kim?  At the end of SL he still hasn't gotten his new "name," nor
> > has he seemed to earn it.  I was expecting after Water Sleeps that he was
> > destined to slay Kina, but events don't seem to have borne that hypothesis out.
> >
>
> I think Tobo will either become a good guy sorcerer or die.  Er, make
> that have mommy, grandma, and great grand ma invite him to live full
> time in the spirit world (so his body dies).  If he lives, his destiny
> seems to lie with the Forgotten Shadows rather than the Black Company.
>
> > The Lance of Passion may have fertilized Kina in some way (that's certainly
> > the impression one gets reading Goblin's description of what happened to
> > it).  What's the gestation period of a god?  Could Kina's spawn have been
> > released in some way before she was killed?  Might she in some way have put
> > her claws into Tobo (who seemed to have a special attraction to her, and
> > seems vulnerable after his parents are slain)?
> >
>
> Interesting theory.
>
> > A lot of BC (and Cook in general) is about perspective.  All the religious
> > info we get and the varying myths concerning Kina must add up to some sort
> > of picture.  Is there any truth in the perspective Booboo gives us?  Was
> > Kina created as a sort of Grandfather Tree or other form of Dominator/evil
> > cleansing?  If so, did she become what she was created/endowed to fight, or
> > not?  And will the Lords of Light find a replacement faster than Croaker
> > seems to think they will?
> >
>
> Personally, I think she was eating the evil of the world.  The 'fall
> into a coma and die' thing that happened to one of the sorcerer kids and
> Soulcatcher was probably Kina eating them.  Even the death of the
> werecat seemed too easy to Lady.
> As for the plans of Gods, I'd say they take a long, long time.
>
> > Cook has stressed the pattern of ancient powerful evil coming to ascendency
> > and being contained but not destroyed.  Presumably this pattern holds true
> > in Khatovar.  With the gate broken and shadows running rampant there, one
> > presumes that only a real heavyweight (like the Dominator) is going to be
> > able to keep himself going.  When the shadows are on a rampage, might they
> > disrupt some sort of Barrowland arrangement and unleash something with the
> > capacity to repair the gate?
> >
>
> The Gate was repaired.  90% of the Shadows were dead by the time Crocker
> pulled his rescue mission.  I don't think the Family was keeping
> something under control - their utter lack of respect for history seems
> to point away from that.
>
> > For that matter, what is the source/meaning of the broomsticks (the flying
> > poles)?  My impression at the end is that the explosion of the pole was at
> > least as much a cause of Kina's death as One-eye's spear.  Who made these
> > things, and for what ultimate purpose?
> >
>
> The Family made the broomsticks, but where did they (the Family) come
> from?  The Family and the Shadow Masters all seemed to have the same
> source, which Crocker hints is important.  The marking on the
> broomsticks are similar to ones in the circles on the Plain.
> Which brings up one of the biggest loose threads I noticed.  At one
> point when someone dies Crocker wonders if that death has cause a new
> pillar to appear on the Plain.
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:41:23 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cook and Print on Demand

Steve Harris wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> What is this fascinating publishing history you're referring to?
>
> "When he
> realized there was that mix up over the number of books he had sold he
> stopped work on the last book of a trilogy (_The Glittering Stone_,
> third book of the South) and moved on to other projects.
> He's had that rule since he counted the number of wasted hours he spent
> writing that unpublished Dread Empire book."
>

Cook thought he had a deal to write a trilogy (The Books of the South)
and a book to tie up loose ends (_The Silver Spike_).  I'm not sure of
what happened but there was probably confusion between Cook, his agent,
and his editor.  Maybe _The Swordbearer_ (listed as forthcoming in
_Dreams of Steal_) was the problem (3 Black Company books and a stand
alone?) - I don't know.

His publisher saw it as a three book deal:
_Shadow Games_ (first book)
_The Silver Spike_ (second book)
_Dreams of Steal_ (third book)

So _Glitter Stone_ (conclusion of the Books of the South) wasn't
covered.  _Dreams of Steal_ was put out in 1990... Followed by a long,
long wait.
When Cook realized the mistake he stopped work on _Glitter Stone_.
Years later, when the publish thought there was interest enough to
publish more Black Company books he went back to the unfinished draft
and the notes he'd made.

Waiting for _Glitter Stone_ was hard, but worth it.  If there hadn't
been that mix up the four _Glitter Stone_ books would have been one
novel.

Richard

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:13:04 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) SL Dangling threads (Spoilers)

Igor Filippov wrote:
>
> To follow the spirit of the series it would seem more appropriate for
> Tobo to become a bad guy (Dominator scale), who will have  to be killed
> either by Croaker's adopted or natural daughter(s)
>

I think his dead relative may stop it, but that is just my opinion...

> Richard, why are you always call Croaker "crocker" ?
> Just out of curiosity - I stumble upon this typo over and over again...
>

Hmmm...
Well, I'd have to say it's because I'm not the world's best and usually
forget to spell check.  When I'm typing fast I often find myself making
the same spelling mistake over and over again.  I'm not sure why - as
Bush said recently I've never been diagnosed with a disability - but
it's something I find myself doing with surprising frenquency.  I've
also noticed that if something is mispelled in an email I'm replying to
I'll use the same mispelling.  I guess I subconsciously glance at what's
on the screen and use that spelling.

Sorry - I'll try to watch it in the future.

Richard

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:19:31 -0500
From: Steve Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cook and Print on Demand

Richard,

Thanks for the insight into the perils of publishing :)

I heard (I don't recall how or exactly when) that the long wait between
_Dreams of Stone_ and the remainder of the Books of the South was due to
Cook having started _Glittering Stone_ and then stopping it and starting
all over again when he realized he had more than a single book's worth
of story material to tell.  I'd interpreted this as meaning there would
be two books to _Glittering Stone_ and was quite surprised (pleasantly,
of course) when it turned into four.

Does anyone else recall hearing something like this?  Maybe what I heard
was just a garbled version of the story you've detailed here.

Steve

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:06:58 -0300
From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Cook and Print on Demand

Tim McDowell wrote:
>
>     You arguements could very well be correct. But may I present some thing;
> as an example, that could take this in a different direction.
>     While following links one day, I stumbled onto the following site.
>
> http://www.classicbookshelf.com/
>
>     Now I don't know enough about it to put forward an opinion, but could
> something like what was done at this site be possible?
>

It looks like an ad drive version of Project Gluntenburg - books whose
copyrights have expired offered for free.  I can't see Cook giving away
his backlist here.
One of the problem with ebooks (at the moment at least) is making sure
each copy is paid for.

>     Just a thought. Have a great day and enjoy the olympics.
>

Just an off topic note:
CBC television (a Canadian channel) is doing live broadcasts of the
events as well as repeating them later in the day.  If you live in the
northern US there's a good chance you can pick up CBC and watch the
events live rather than with a 10 hour delay.

Richard

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:34:19 -0500
From: "David George" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) The Upcoming Death of Publishing

Described my rigamarole re: the costs of publishing and the upcoming
strengths of ebooks and print-on-demand at work today and got a deluge of
feedback, most of it confirming what I'd been hearing or guessing.

The gist of conversations was this: publishers of books are as dead as the
makers of CDs and LPs.  That is, they will either mutate their business
models or go out of business.

The arguments in favor of publishing houses (other than having the
printing/binding/distribution details of their business worked out) are
basically that they "filter the flow of books for the good stuff."

Except that there are lots of writers who editors turn down not because they
are not good but because they are not good enough to justify the production
expenses of publishing.  A number of writers were mentioned who believed in
their own work, self-promoted on the net and elsewhere, published by
e-books, and broke in.  Their status now is that they are "blessed by
publishers" and merit publication.  They did not change, but the market buzz
around them did.

Another thing is the miniscule cut that authors get on their work.  One
author writing on the topic indicated that he got about a buck a book for
hardcover books.  The rest was eaten up by publishing (corporate cut,
production, promotion, printing and shipping).  For two bucks a copy, I
suspect most authors would desert their publishers without a thought.
Writers write for money, for the most part.  Certainly, I think Glen Cook
writes for money.  That is, he would favor projects that paid more over
those that paid less or not at all.

Another "strength" of publishing that was trotted out for bashing was the
value added by editors.  Yes, there are some good editors out there.  There
are also some buffoons and newbies and if you are not a top selling author,
guess who you get working on YOUR book?  Again, writers have written about
this in articles.

What might the future look like?  Publishing houses, without the paper and
trucking and so forth involved in making paper books, have what to offer
that can't be had somewhere else?  Not "brand identity"--quick, who
publishes Stepen King?  No cheating and looking at the bookshelf.  In
writing, virtually all of the brand resides in the author's name and
creations, not in the publisher's.  To succeed, a publisher has to build a
stable of talented editors and sign deals with talented writers.  But why do
they need the publisher?  Why wouldn't a talented editor spin off his own
brand?  The barriers to entry are miniscule, in terms of cash.  Serving
e-Books, print on demand, web exposure, these are all easily available at
low cost.

"Publishing power" accumulates in those parties (reviewers, "experts",
editors, even listservs and newsgroups) who can connect readers-with-cash
and writers-who-are-good.  Trucks and printing presses will not matter.
Cash and promotional expertise will matter somewhat, but the stranglehold of
publishing houses is about to disappear.

Yes, Stephen King will still make tons more money than his peers.  But the
barriers to entry are meaningless and more writers will get their chance.
Or, in the case of DE, perhaps, their second chance.

Will Glen Cook do this--put out-of-print books back into the market via
print on demand and/or e-books?  This inquiring mind would like to know.
Would the next person to see Glen at a con please ask him about this for us?
It would be exciting for us if he did.  No more wondering if loaned books
will come home or be irretrievably lost.  No more "I read this book but it's
out of print and you can't find it anymore, but it was really good..."  Yah,
the signed first-ed that has never been read will still have some value, but
the real value of books is in the reading...

DG

PS: No, he doesn't have to reissue Swap Academy to make me happy.  But, yes,
I'd probably try to read it if he did.


=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

------------------------------

End of glencook-fans-digest V1 #33
**********************************

=======================================================================
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
 visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.