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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 06 May 2001 20:54:36 -0600
>From dandean@optonline.net Sun May 06 17:45:23 2001
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Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but
I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if someone
could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to
have missed a few things and its driving me nuts.
My questions:
1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they
work for Raker, or the Limper or who?
2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league
with the Taken or not?
3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are
they something much more bizarre?
If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!
-dan
--Boundary_(ID_jvmOAj48Hacx4LA0LzOuDg)
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm
enjoying Black Company so far, but I've been confused for a while (I'm on
page
175). I was wondering if someone could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that
far
into the book but I seem to have missed a few things and its driving me
nuts. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>My questions:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they
just
against the empire or do they work for Raker, or the Limper or
who?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the
Company
or not? Is the Rose in league with the Taken or not?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>3- The Taken... are they just some
really
powerful and feared wizards or are they something much more
bizarre?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>If you can help me out a bit-
Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>-dan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_jvmOAj48Hacx4LA0LzOuDg)--
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 07 May 2001 00:28:26 -0300
Eric Herrmann wrote:
>
> Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but
> I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if someone
> could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to
> have missed a few things and its driving me nuts.
>
I'll try to avoid spoilers.
> My questions:
> 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they
> work for Raker, or the Limper or who?
>
"The Rebel" - the term covers a wide variety of factions that is
fighting the Lady's empire. Everywhere she expands she displaces the
power structure that's there and they try to fight her. It's a lot like
the French Resistance - historically there were dozens of groups in
France offering resistance to the German occupation but they get lumped
together in one group.
They (the Rebel) are united in hatred of the empire, and that's it. If
they won they'd probably fight among themselves for power. They scheme
among themselves - they have factions and the leaders of each faction
wants more power. They have a command structure, but it isn't as
unified as the lady's. The book doesn't really give much details about
this, but if you read between the lines it's there.
Raker is one of the generals who leads the rebels in the North. As long
as he's winning people will support him.
The Limper tries to use the Rebels to score points. If he can beat them
he'll be happy. If he can help them hurt his rival Soulcatcher he'll be
happy. He sees the Black Company as Soulcatcher's pawn, and wants them
to fail so Soulcatcher will be in disgrace.
> 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league
> with the Taken or not?
>
The White Rose...
Later in the book the White Rose is explained. It's the name of a great
general who (about 400 years ago) defeated the Dominator, The Lady, and
the Ten who were Taken; overturning their empire she found she couldn't
kill them so buried them. The Lady and the Ten were later freed and
started rebuilding the Empire.
It's prophesized that since the evil powers she defeat have risen again
that she will be reborn to lead the struggle against the Lady and her
Empire.
Since the Black Company is a tool of the Empire it looks like the White
Rose (if she exists in more than legends) will stand against them.
> 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are
> they something much more bizarre?
>
Um, that's debatable.
Way back when, during a high age of Magic, a wizard who called him self
"The Dominator" (because he liked running things) went after other
wizards. He found ten who were near demigods in their power and, well
TOOK them. They became his creatures. He owned them body and soul.
There was another who was a bit too powerful for him to take, so he
married her and made her his Lady.
Did the Taking process add to their powers, or were they just kick ass
wizards with lots of power? Who's to say. Their power and magical
knowledge is matched by few today - during the struggle Cooks names
maybe half a dozen rebels with the power level of the Take (say Raker,
Whisper, and a few others), but other than that people quake in their
boots when the Taken are around.
Each of the Taken is different, but most can be seen as bizarre. Each
spent 400 years in the ground - and most look it. With most of them
their faces (when seen) are faces that have clearly seen the inside of
the grave.
The early ones mentioned?
Soulcatcher - who is said to speak with the voices of men whose souls
she has stolen.
The Limper - described as someone who would torture babies for fun.
Shapeshifter - a weird looking creature who can shift shapes, and has a
staff shaped like an enlongated woman - rumoured to be his ex-wife who
cheated on him way back when.
All of them can fit the bill as villains- wonderful, awful, horrible
villains. Having such well defined bad guys make the series. As for
the company, well, there is no black and white in the series, only
shades of grey.
Hope this helped.
Richard
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From: "Amy Weathers" <raistlin@zianet.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 06 May 2001 21:56:03 -0600
I haven't posted in a while, so I'll tackle a couple of these and leave some
for the rest of you all.
:)
>
>Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but
>I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if
someone
>could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to
>have missed a few things and its driving me nuts.
>
>2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league
>with the Taken or not?
The white rose is a person who in years long past, helped to defeat The Lady
and her nastey other half. So the Whote rose would be the enemy of the
Lady and her minions. Unless of course the minions wanted her dead ... in
which case the white rose would just be a useful tool of the Taken.
>3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or
are
>they something much more bizarre?
They are wizards, they are something much more bizarre. All the Taken are
very powerful wizards in their own right, however when they were made into
'the taken' they became the subservent minions to the Lady, or her husband.
Since their release, they all work for the Lady ... or to further their own
means.
>If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!
>-dan
>
Those are a couple quick answers to what are some deep questions. And they
are or course my own personal opinions as well.
Enjoy the books. :)
Amy (thinking of re-readign them again)
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Amy Weathers" <raistlin@zianet.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 06 May 2001 21:56:03 -0600
I haven't posted in a while, so I'll tackle a couple of these and leave some
for the rest of you all.
:)
>
>Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but
>I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if
someone
>could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to
>have missed a few things and its driving me nuts.
>
>2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league
>with the Taken or not?
The white rose is a person who in years long past, helped to defeat The Lady
and her nastey other half. So the Whote rose would be the enemy of the
Lady and her minions. Unless of course the minions wanted her dead ... in
which case the white rose would just be a useful tool of the Taken.
>3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or
are
>they something much more bizarre?
They are wizards, they are something much more bizarre. All the Taken are
very powerful wizards in their own right, however when they were made into
'the taken' they became the subservent minions to the Lady, or her husband.
Since their release, they all work for the Lady ... or to further their own
means.
>If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!
>-dan
>
Those are a couple quick answers to what are some deep questions. And they
are or course my own personal opinions as well.
Enjoy the books. :)
Amy (thinking of re-readign them again)
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
Date: 06 May 2001 22:16:38 -0600
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May 2001 20:08:56 -0700
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series?
I mean do the 2 Cook series actually take place on the 'world'?
I seem to recall hearing about the fivrolocka guys in the Garrett
books (well one of 'em). It's also possible that one of the wars that
we hear about in the Black Company could be the Cantard from Garrett...
Dunno. Does anyone have any ideas one way or the other?
-tm
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Date: 06 May 2001 22:21:18 -0600
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series?
I mean do the 2 Cook series actually take place on the 'world'?
I seem to recall hearing about the fivrolocka guys in the Garrett
books (well one of 'em). It's also possible that one of the wars that
we hear about in the Black Company could be the Cantard from Garrett...
Dunno. Does anyone have any ideas one way or the other?
-tm
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dan Dean <dandean@optonline.net>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Help with the first book.
Date: 06 May 2001 19:45:24 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but
I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if someone
could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to
have missed a few things and its driving me nuts.
My questions:
1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they
work for Raker, or the Limper or who?
2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league
with the Taken or not?
3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are
they something much more bizarre?
If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!
-dan
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm
enjoying Black Company so far, but I've been confused for a while (I'm on
page
175). I was wondering if someone could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that
far
into the book but I seem to have missed a few things and its driving me
nuts. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>My questions:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they
just
against the empire or do they work for Raker, or the Limper or
who?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the
Company
or not? Is the Rose in league with the Taken or not?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>3- The Taken... are they just some
really
powerful and feared wizards or are they something much more
bizarre?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>If you can help me out a bit-
Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>-dan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From: Tim <somebody@dreamlands.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) connection between
Date: 06 May 2001 20:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
series?
I mean do the 2 Cook series actually take place on the 'world'?
I seem to recall hearing about the fivrolocka guys in the Garrett
books (well one of 'em). It's also possible that one of the wars that
we hear about in the Black Company could be the Cantard from Garrett...
Dunno. Does anyone have any ideas one way or the other?
-tm
=======================================================================
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visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Info
Date: 06 May 2001 22:44:37 -0600
The April mail archive has been posted.
"La Compa=F1ia Negra" to be published by La Factoria de Ideas in May 2001.
The translator got sick so they are a little behind.
The original, rare first edition Polish cover of "The Black Company" has
been added to the website.
"Shadow Games" was published in France in April. Another great cover from
L'Atalante. Check it out.
And, yes, I've apparently forgotten how to post bounced messages to the
list. Haven't had to do it in a while. My apologies for the duplicate
messages with no subject lines. Please reply to the "right" messages.
--
This mailing list is sponsored by The Glen Cook Fan Page at:
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/ >.
The mailing list archives and instructions of how to subscribe or
unsubscribe can be found at:
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html >.
The mailing list FAQ can be found at:
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/Mail/glencook-fans-FAQ.txt >.
The mailing list exclusive Glen Cook Bibliography can be found at:
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GCBiblio.txt >.
--=20
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
<owner-glencook-fans@xmission.com>
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From: Steve Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Help with the first book.
Date: 07 May 2001 02:49:17 -0500
Dan,
Dangerous, asking questions about the book you're reading :) I'll see
what I can do that is likely to help your appreciation but not spoil
anything for you.
"The Rebel" is the what the BC calls anyone opposed to their employer,
the Lady--i.e., anyone rebelling against her extension of her Empire.
Organization is sketchy; we get glimpses of it, but not much more than
that. We're watching from the point of view of just one company of the
Lady's front-line troops, not people who are entirely in the know on the
political organization of The Opposition.
The White Rose is an enigma, a legend--and the name of the third volume!
So you can pretty well guess that she's going to play a Very Important
Role that you don't want to hear about before reading it in sequence.
The Taken are a bit more than "just some really powerful and feared
wizard", at least in reputation--they are legendary, names you frighten
children with. The fact that they are now returned *out of their
graves* (more or less) adds a great deal of extra horror to how they are
seen by the populace. Add in the fact that several (most?) of them are
Genuinely Weird if you meet them up close and personal, and you begin to
get a feeling for the kind of terror their very names strike.
How much do they live up to these reputations? Well, Soul-Catcher and
Limper certainly are enough to give anyone the heebie-jeebies. But the
only ones we get to see in detailsare those the Company runs into.
A Really Interesting question is this: Does every generation have
wizards comparable to those of the Taken? Or did the Dominator live
long enough to scoop up the Best and the Darkest over many generations?
I don't know that this is ever answered.
And just how often does someone like the Dominator--or the Lady--come
around?? Was there something in that era, several centuries ago, that
made it possible for that combination of raw talent, advanced
development of that talent, and unspeakable lack of humanity all to come together?
Steve
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers
Date: 07 May 2001 11:28:40 -0300
Steve Harris wrote:
>
>
>
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
If you're just starting the books you don't want to read this. It
touches most (including the most recent) of the books.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
> A Really Interesting question is this: Does every generation have
> wizards comparable to those of the Taken? Or did the Dominator live
> long enough to scoop up the Best and the Darkest over many generations?
> I don't know that this is ever answered.
>
My view is that two of the Circle of 18 (Whisper and the General who
gets taken out during the battle of Charm) rank up there with the Ten.
Soulcatcher points out that Whisper is, and they need four Taken to
remove the General.
From what I can tell the age that saw the rise of the Dominator, Lady,
and Ten was an age of high magic and lore where those with talent got
trained, and the top twelve of the generation are all that survived.
How important is training? Look at a minor character in the second book
- Whisper looks at her and says the Lady will be very interested in
her. She latter ends up as Shapeshifter's apprentice - and if her
mentor wasn't killed might have reached his level of power. Even half
trained she was someone who gave One Eye and Goblin nightmares.
And her talent was almost waisted. She could have died from hunger in
the slums of Jupiter, been knifed by a lover, or gone her whole live
without training.
> And just how often does someone like the Dominator--or the Lady--come
> around?? Was there something in that era, several centuries ago, that
> made it possible for that combination of raw talent, advanced
> development of that talent, and unspeakable lack of humanity all to come together?
>
I think so - that the culture was one of decadence where an ambitious
girl could drown her twin sister when she'd 14 and still achive power
(lack of humanity). That magical training was common, and gifted
students were sought out (combining the raw talent with advanced
training).
Then again, maybe it's just having near ultimate power. Look at
Soldiers Live.
You got a boy with power. He's on the edge of manhood, been trained by
several different people, but is more or less a good boy. Kind of a
nice guy.
A nice guy discovering that there may be no limit on his power. Dad
dies? Make the bastards who did it pay and pay and pay - and there's no
immediate payback. At some point he has to know that people know he did
it and they aren't doing anything about it because he's too useful to
the War. Or maybe it's that he's too powerful for them to stop? Maybe
they all secretly fear his power?
Talk about a head trip - and we're talking about someone who is nice to
start with, raised by those who knew he would be a power.
I'm pretty sure there's a point in Soldiers Live where the Lady puts the
temptation of power in words - think it was when they were discussing if
a certain nice guy's mother would drag her son's spirit into the lands
of the dead to stop him from going bad.
Richard
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Spoiler for "Soldiers Live" and other
Date: 07 May 2001 17:34:19 -0500
Richard,
Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This
letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live".
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I think of Soul-Catcher as Very Powerful, someone who would be extremely
fearsome out there in the world, if she actually had the ambition to be
a Ruler of a large domain. (Fortunately for the world at large, she
doesn't maintain any large ambitions; she flits with the wind.) Much
more powerful than just about anyone else we see, except from the
Shadowlands. (I'm not sure we ever see the Limper, for instance, ever
really do very much.)
But Soul-Catcher is supposed to be nearly as powerful as her sister,
probably more powerful than any of the other Taken.
Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what you
want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and
Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some
amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best
example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not
even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was help
with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned impressive.)
Steve
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From: "Jerry Higgins" <bones272@home.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Just curious
Date: 07 May 2001 20:11:01 -0500
Does anyone know if Mr. Glen Cook reads this mailing list? If so, perhaps
he might do some stories of former Company members (and enemies) who simply
wandered off after one book or another or (more exactly) were never killed?
I'd just like to know....
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 5:34 PM
> Richard,
>
> Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This
> letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live".
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> I think of Soul-Catcher as Very Powerful, someone who would be extremely
> fearsome out there in the world, if she actually had the ambition to be
> a Ruler of a large domain. (Fortunately for the world at large, she
> doesn't maintain any large ambitions; she flits with the wind.) Much
> more powerful than just about anyone else we see, except from the
> Shadowlands. (I'm not sure we ever see the Limper, for instance, ever
> really do very much.)
>
> But Soul-Catcher is supposed to be nearly as powerful as her sister,
> probably more powerful than any of the other Taken.
>
> Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what you
> want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and
> Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some
> amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best
> example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not
> even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was help
> with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned impressive.)
>
> Steve
>
> =======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
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From: "John C. DeSimone, Jr." <jdesimon4@home.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Spoiler for "Soldiers Live" and other
Date: 07 May 2001 18:51:10 -0400
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:34 PM
> Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This
> letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live".
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what you
> want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and
> Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some
> amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best
> example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not
> even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was help
> with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned impressive.)
>
> Steve
I think One-Eye and Goblin explained it to Croaker once. To paraphrase,
they said it was a matter of degrees, and the higher your degree, the more
you could get done at one time. So basically, they could do anything Lady
could, but it would take an impossibly long time. So essentially, you are
right. More powerful wizards can simply do more, and quicker.
Jay
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Spoiler for "Soldiers Live" and other
Date: 07 May 2001 23:48:27 -0300
Stacey Harris wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This
> letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live".
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> I think of Soul-Catcher as Very Powerful, someone who would be extremely
> fearsome out there in the world, if she actually had the ambition to be
> a Ruler of a large domain. (Fortunately for the world at large, she
> doesn't maintain any large ambitions; she flits with the wind.) Much
> more powerful than just about anyone else we see, except from the
> Shadowlands. (I'm not sure we ever see the Limper, for instance, ever
> really do very much.)
>
I think she did have ambitions at one time, but lost them through an eon
long rivalry with her sister.
At the start of the Black Company book, she wants what her sister has
(the Empire).
During the Books of the South she wants what her sister has (Croker).
During the Glitter Stone series, at first she wants what her sister has
(rulership of the southern empire), but once she has it she doesn't know
what to do with it. Near the end she realizes she just wants / needs
her sister to be her mirror.
> But Soul-Catcher is supposed to be nearly as powerful as her sister,
> probably more powerful than any of the other Taken.
>
Among the top ones at least - but no one echoed the Limper's resilence
and his magic had to be the source of that.
Perhaps the Taken were the top wizards of different traditions:
Shapeshift the best of the wizards who used shapeshifting magic,
Stormbringer the best of the weather control wizards,
Limber the best of the war like / battle resistant school (maybe the
Hanged Man was one of those?),
Bonecrusher the best of the body enhancing school of magic,
etc.
If that was the case then the Lady and Soulcatcher's magic were the most
similiar.
> Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what you
> want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and
> Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some
> amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best
> example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not
> even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was help
> with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned impressive.)
>
At one point there's talk of talents having an order of magnitude - that
it would take One Eye 10 or 100 (maybe a thousand) times the effort to
achive the same affect that the Lady could acomplish.
As for that spear - how many years went into it? How many with both One
Eye and Goblin working on it?
The Lady or Soulcatcher in their Prime could probably have swatted that
were leopard in an instant where they spent years to achive it.
That line of power that hits the Castle in Shadows Linger - that's power
when you need it.
Course, that's just my opinion.
Richard
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From: "Lynn Sellers" <Lynn@Perfect-10.net>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Just curious
Date: 08 May 2001 15:55:29 -0500
I don't think Glen does computers.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 08:11 PM
Does anyone know if Mr. Glen Cook reads this mailing list? If so,
perhaps
he might do some stories of former Company members (and enemies) who
simply
wandered off after one book or another or (more exactly) were never
killed?
I'd just like to know....
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 5:34 PM
> Richard,
>
> Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This
> letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live".
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> I think of Soul-Catcher as Very Powerful, someone who would be
extremely
> fearsome out there in the world, if she actually had the ambition to
be
> a Ruler of a large domain. (Fortunately for the world at large, she
> doesn't maintain any large ambitions; she flits with the wind.) Much
> more powerful than just about anyone else we see, except from the
> Shadowlands. (I'm not sure we ever see the Limper, for instance, ever
> really do very much.)
>
> But Soul-Catcher is supposed to be nearly as powerful as her sister,
> probably more powerful than any of the other Taken.
>
> Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what
you
> want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and
> Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some
> amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best
> example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not
> even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was
help
> with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned
impressive.)
>
> Steve
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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From: "Joseph McGrath" <jomcgrath@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers
Date: 08 May 2001 18:56:56 -0000
Well said Richard...
spoilers...
About the training.... Remember in the letters Raven was writing to Croaker
about Bomanz's early life, before Bomanz decided to move to the barrowland
to try to milk knowledge from Lady? Raven wrote about there being a secret
school within a school. The black society or something? Obviously because
Raven was an alumni himself. And Bomanz was the best that that age put out.
Raven must have heard of Bomanz like he was some kind of legend or
something. I think that the school was in Opal.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 2:28 PM
>
> Steve Harris wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> If you're just starting the books you don't want to read this. It
> touches most (including the most recent) of the books.
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> > A Really Interesting question is this: Does every generation have
> > wizards comparable to those of the Taken? Or did the Dominator live
> > long enough to scoop up the Best and the Darkest over many generations?
> > I don't know that this is ever answered.
> >
>
> My view is that two of the Circle of 18 (Whisper and the General who
> gets taken out during the battle of Charm) rank up there with the Ten.
> Soulcatcher points out that Whisper is, and they need four Taken to
> remove the General.
> From what I can tell the age that saw the rise of the Dominator, Lady,
> and Ten was an age of high magic and lore where those with talent got
> trained, and the top twelve of the generation are all that survived.
>
> How important is training? Look at a minor character in the second book
> - Whisper looks at her and says the Lady will be very interested in
> her. She latter ends up as Shapeshifter's apprentice - and if her
> mentor wasn't killed might have reached his level of power. Even half
> trained she was someone who gave One Eye and Goblin nightmares.
> And her talent was almost waisted. She could have died from hunger in
> the slums of Jupiter, been knifed by a lover, or gone her whole live
> without training.
>
> > And just how often does someone like the Dominator--or the Lady--come
> > around?? Was there something in that era, several centuries ago, that
> > made it possible for that combination of raw talent, advanced
> > development of that talent, and unspeakable lack of humanity all to come
together?
> >
>
> I think so - that the culture was one of decadence where an ambitious
> girl could drown her twin sister when she'd 14 and still achive power
> (lack of humanity). That magical training was common, and gifted
> students were sought out (combining the raw talent with advanced
> training).
>
> Then again, maybe it's just having near ultimate power. Look at
> Soldiers Live.
> You got a boy with power. He's on the edge of manhood, been trained by
> several different people, but is more or less a good boy. Kind of a
> nice guy.
> A nice guy discovering that there may be no limit on his power. Dad
> dies? Make the bastards who did it pay and pay and pay - and there's no
> immediate payback. At some point he has to know that people know he did
> it and they aren't doing anything about it because he's too useful to
> the War. Or maybe it's that he's too powerful for them to stop? Maybe
> they all secretly fear his power?
>
> Talk about a head trip - and we're talking about someone who is nice to
> start with, raised by those who knew he would be a power.
>
> I'm pretty sure there's a point in Soldiers Live where the Lady puts the
> temptation of power in words - think it was when they were discussing if
> a certain nice guy's mother would drag her son's spirit into the lands
> of the dead to stop him from going bad.
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers
Date: 08 May 2001 20:10:54 -0300
Joseph McGrath wrote:
>
> Well said Richard...
> spoilers...
>
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
> About the training.... Remember in the letters Raven was writing to Croaker
> about Bomanz's early life, before Bomanz decided to move to the barrowland
> to try to milk knowledge from Lady?
His quest for knowledge was one of his driving goals - in the letters.
But those letters were written after his defeat in the barrowlands by
someone's kid sister.
> Raven wrote about there being a secret
> school within a school. The black society or something?
Black collage? Unseen Collage? Something like that.
> Obviously because
> Raven was an alumni himself. And Bomanz was the best that that age put out.
> Raven must have heard of Bomanz like he was some kind of legend or
> something. I think that the school was in Opal.
Bromaz was a legend because of what he did, not because of where he
studied. He opened the way for the great evils of yesterday to return.
In the letters there was something about the son studying there, and how
some of the older masters remembered Bromanz's name. I get the feeling
that Bromanz had an old grudge against someone of them - something about
those people trembling when they heard that Bromanz had the Lady's
secrets.
If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a
post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during
the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken,
and way better than those running things after the Lady left.
Richard
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From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers
Date: 08 May 2001 22:59:33 -0500
Richard,
(spoiler space on first Black Company books)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Nice speculation there on Bomanz's rank in things:
"If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a
post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during
the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken"
I agree. And that gives some measure of answer to my question about how
often a Dominator (or Lady) might arise: Some 4 centuries later (I'm
not certain of the timeline--how long after the Opening does The Black
Company commence?), there is, apparently, only one practitioner in the
North who even comes close to being used in comparison with the Mighty
Ones. So maybe an actual Dominator-level character comes along only
once in a millenium or thereabouts.
Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad
Dominator-type? Her level would come along every couple millenia or so, maybe.
Steve
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From: "PrimalChrome" <chrome@wwisp.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers
Date: 09 May 2001 08:52:52 -0500
Actually I'd always thought of him as a bit the opposite. The reason he
*didn't* end up a Whisper was because he was so successful. Successful in
both the arts and in camoflage. In his younger years he was probably a
match for any of the middle or lower end Taken. Even in his twilight years
he was able to negotiate the Barrowland (the best voodoo security system
that could be produced in the age of the Dominator) and go toe to toe with a
Dragon.
Too many people are remembering Bomanz as just that harmless little
archeologist that dug through graves for rusty helms.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:10 PM
spoilers
> Joseph McGrath wrote:
> If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a
> post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during
> the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken,
> and way better than those running things after the Lady left.
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 09 May 2001 18:26:17 +0200
> 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they
> work for Raker, or the Limper or who?
They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool
them, but in general there is a war.
>
> 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league
> with the Taken or not?
She is always an enemy of the empire.
>
> 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or
are
> they something much more bizarre?
Wizards, naturally ;)
>
> If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!
No problem.
> -dan
Gwen
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From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 09 May 2001 12:45:40 -0500
Gwen,
I think you mis-state things here about what the Black Company calls
"the Rebel":
"They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool
them, but in general there is a war."
We know of no instance of rebellion during the Domination, so how can we
say the Dominator fooled any rebels? Actually, we know practically
nothing about that period--just that the Dominator ruled things with a
ruthless hand, including getting himself the Taken.
(Was there war during the Domination, much like in the present era with
the Lady's Empire? Or was the Dominator so all-powerful that he just
Stomped on opposition, so there was nothing so organized as war? I tend
to agree with you that there was likely war, probably more ruthless and
awful than the Lady's war; the Dominator wasn't really God-like, I think.)
It's probably a good guess (given the Dominator's lack of humanity) that
in the era of the Domination, the Dominator's rule was horrid,
totalitarian, and hellish. But in the era of the Lady's rule, that's a
lot less clear. She actually sets up a pretty efficient bureaucracy,
and we don't see any specific cruelty under her reign, except for when
some of her soldiers (notably those under the Limper) get a taste for
abusing civilians. Probably the main Evil she represents is just
expanding her Empire in standard imperial manner--i.e., make war on
anyone who opposes you.
Steve
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 09 May 2001 19:57:31 +0200
> I think you mis-state things here about what the Black Company calls
> "the Rebel":
>
> "They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
> totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can
fool
> them, but in general there is a war."
>
> We know of no instance of rebellion during the Domination, so how can we
> say the Dominator fooled any rebels? Actually, we know practically
> nothing about that period--just that the Dominator ruled things with a
> ruthless hand, including getting himself the Taken.
>
> (Was there war during the Domination, much like in the present era with
> the Lady's Empire? Or was the Dominator so all-powerful that he just
> Stomped on opposition, so there was nothing so organized as war? I tend
> to agree with you that there was likely war, probably more ruthless and
> awful than the Lady's war; the Dominator wasn't really God-like, I think.)
>
> It's probably a good guess (given the Dominator's lack of humanity) that
> in the era of the Domination, the Dominator's rule was horrid,
> totalitarian, and hellish. But in the era of the Lady's rule, that's a
> lot less clear. She actually sets up a pretty efficient bureaucracy,
> and we don't see any specific cruelty under her reign, except for when
> some of her soldiers (notably those under the Limper) get a taste for
> abusing civilians. Probably the main Evil she represents is just
> expanding her Empire in standard imperial manner--i.e., make war on
> anyone who opposes you.
>
> Steve
>
> =======================================================================
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> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 09 May 2001 20:10:41 +0200
--
> I think you mis-state things here about what the Black Company calls
> "the Rebel":
>
> "They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
> totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can
fool
> them, but in general there is a war."
>
> We know of no instance of rebellion during the Domination, so how can we
> say the Dominator fooled any rebels? Actually, we know practically
> nothing about that period--just that the Dominator ruled things with a
> ruthless hand, including getting himself the Taken.
It was when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some
of the Circle to help his cause, because they thought they could use him.
The first Cronicle.
'>
> (Was there war during the Domination, much like in the present era with
> the Lady's Empire? Or was the Dominator so all-powerful that he just
> Stomped on opposition, so there was nothing so organized as war? I tend
> to agree with you that there was likely war, probably more ruthless and
> awful than the Lady's war; the Dominator wasn't really God-like, I think.)
In the same chronicle, the Doctor (I don't know his name in English),
specifically says, that what hthe people feared was the coming back of a
total system. Or rather, an order of total fear.
>
> It's probably a good guess (given the Dominator's lack of humanity) that
> in the era of the Domination, the Dominator's rule was horrid,
> totalitarian, and hellish.
But in the era of the Lady's rule, that's a
> lot less clear. She actually sets up a pretty efficient bureaucracy,
> and we don't see any specific cruelty under her reign, except for when
> some of her soldiers (notably those under the Limper) get a taste for
> abusing civilians. Probably the main Evil she represents is just
> expanding her Empire in standard imperial manner--i.e., make war on
> anyone who opposes you.
Yes, this is what makes the chronicles so juicy, this understatement of
moral descriptions- the Company is a bunch of rapists and beasts, except for
the commanders. The Lady is a good manager, and is able to love. This hint
of a horrid past is a very probable thread. People tend to forget the
details of the past, keeping in their memory only a sketch of the situation-
if it is not too personal. So putting the great evil in the past is very
probable, because if closer looked at, it may show other facets. We know
that the Dominator was a very powerful magician, and a great general- he was
winning for a long time, till his power was nullified. It's like the guns
suddenly just stopped shooting- find me a general who can immediately win in
a world without ranged weapons nowadays.. Ant the great evil in the south
doesn't ruin my interpretation- the more facts Glen gives, the more tangible
Kina looks. She was sent on a mission, right?
Gwen
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From: Igor Filippov <igor@osc.edu>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 09 May 2001 15:11:37 -0400 (EDT)
The Empire was "such a horrid totalitarian hell" ?????
I had an impression that was what rebel propaganda tried to brainwash
common folk into thinking. There're plenty of evidence that Lady's
leadership was quite beneficial for people in a lot of ways. To name
one there's a discussion about cultivating medicinal herbs that made
Croaker ask himself - would a total Evil worry about medicine for common
people ?
Rebels on the other hand weren't shy to employ the very same cruel methods
they were accusing Lady of using....
Croaker describes Rebels as anything but sweet idealistic fighters for
freedom.
So I wouldn't rush to call Lady's Empire a "horrid totalitarian hell"
"Totalitarian" - maybe. "Hell" it was not.
Igor
On Wed, 9 May 2001, gwen wrote:
> > 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they
> > work for Raker, or the Limper or who?
>
> They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid,
> totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool
> them, but in general there is a war.
> >
> > 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league
> > with the Taken or not?
>
> She is always an enemy of the empire.
> >
> > 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or
> are
> > they something much more bizarre?
>
> Wizards, naturally ;)
> >
> > If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!
>
> No problem.
>
> > -dan
> Gwen
>
>
>
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From: Igor Filippov <igor@osc.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers
Date: 09 May 2001 15:25:11 -0400 (EDT)
About 'periodicity of Domination' -
In the first few books it's mentioned quite a few times (though never
really explained if it's a myth or a fact) that rises and falls of the
Dominator(s) are related to the passing of the comet. Every
20-40 years (I don't remember exactly) it passes Earth (or whatever the
planet might be called) and every 400 years it comes very close to the
planet.
Then, somewhere in one of the latest books there's a discussion about
the ways to get rid of a wizard the scale of Dominator - "you can put
his soul in a metal spike, bury it under a Tree-God from another dimension
or throw it at a passing comet" - again, don't remember exact words, but
there was mentioning of a comet as a place to bury unwanted extra-powerful
wizards.
Which brings us to an interesting (to me anyway :) ) conjecture -
what if, some time long-long ago some ancient Dominator, the very first
of its kind, was buried in a comet, and that is why we have waves of
Dominators coming with a period of 400 years along with the comet.
Does it sound like a possible scenario ?
Igor
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Stacey Harris wrote:
> Richard,
>
> (spoiler space on first Black Company books)
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> Nice speculation there on Bomanz's rank in things:
>
> "If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a
> post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during
> the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken"
>
> I agree. And that gives some measure of answer to my question about how
> often a Dominator (or Lady) might arise: Some 4 centuries later (I'm
> not certain of the timeline--how long after the Opening does The Black
> Company commence?), there is, apparently, only one practitioner in the
> North who even comes close to being used in comparison with the Mighty
> Ones. So maybe an actual Dominator-level character comes along only
> once in a millenium or thereabouts.
>
> Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad
> Dominator-type? Her level would come along every couple millenia or so, maybe.
>
> Steve
>
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From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@SLU.EDU>
Subject: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 09 May 2001 16:25:45 -0500
Gwen,
Ah, right you are; I forgot about that:
"when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some
of the Circle to help his cause"
On names of characters:
"the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)"
He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically,
in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die".
What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are
the chief ones in my count:
Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
One-Eye (black wizard)
Goblin (short white wizard)
Silent (tall white wizard)
Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
the Lady (later called just "Lady")
Sleepy (in the later books)
It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
other languages.
I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
"Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
Lieutenant").
Steve
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From: Gray Lowell <glowell@flash.net>
Subject: Fwd: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 09 May 2001 14:34:31 -0700
> On Wednesday, May 9, 2001, at 02:25 PM, Stacey Harris wrote:
>>
>> What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are
>> the chief ones in my count:
>>
>> Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
>> One-Eye (black wizard)
>> Goblin (short white wizard)
>> Silent (tall white wizard)
>> Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
>> the Lady (later called just "Lady")
>> Sleepy (in the later books)
>>
>> It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
>> other languages.
>>
>> I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
>> "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
>> Lieutenant").
>>
>
> add to that
>
> darling
> big bucket
> mercy
> tom-tom
> smoke
>
> frankly i m more curious about the names of the taken
>
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From: "Joseph McGrath" <jomcgrath@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 09 May 2001 18:07:17 -0000
I believe the reason Croaker is called Croaker is that he is a physician.
During primitive times you usually died when they had to call the doctor.
Hence, Croaker is slang for Doctor. People were deathly afraid of doctors
because when someone called the doctor it meant you were on the way out.
When you read, "The Garrett Files," There is something about, when you get
sent to the Bledsoe charity hospital you never leave except for a one way
trip to the boneyard.
spoilers...
Recall how Croaker is always bemoaning the fact that he doesn't do near as
much as he could for the wounded. But! If he had a good team of compitent
surgeons he would have, "a good chance of doing some good for a change."
(Battle at the Stair of Tear.)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:25 PM
> Gwen,
>
> Ah, right you are; I forgot about that:
>
> "when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some
> of the Circle to help his cause"
>
> On names of characters:
>
> "the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)"
>
> He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically,
> in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die".
>
> What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are
> the chief ones in my count:
>
> Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
> One-Eye (black wizard)
> Goblin (short white wizard)
> Silent (tall white wizard)
> Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
> the Lady (later called just "Lady")
> Sleepy (in the later books)
>
> It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
> other languages.
>
> I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
> "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
> Lieutenant").
>
> Steve
>
> =======================================================================
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From: "Wheeler, Brooke" <BWheeler@broadband.att.com>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 09 May 2001 17:42:01 -0400
FYI: In English, "Croaker" is slang for doctor, ironically enough... kind of
like shrink=psychologist.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Stacey
Harris
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 2:26 PM
Gwen,
Ah, right you are; I forgot about that:
"when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some
of the Circle to help his cause"
On names of characters:
"the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)"
He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically,
in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die".
What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are
the chief ones in my count:
Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
One-Eye (black wizard)
Goblin (short white wizard)
Silent (tall white wizard)
Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
the Lady (later called just "Lady")
Sleepy (in the later books)
It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
other languages.
I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
"Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
Lieutenant").
Steve
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From: "John C. DeSimone, Jr." <jdesimon4@home.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains
Date: 09 May 2001 07:54:31 -0400
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:59 PM
spoilers
> Richard,
>
> (spoiler space on first Black Company books)
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> > Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad
> Dominator-type? Her level would come along every couple millenia or so,
maybe.
>
Yes, along with the thing buried under Old Father Tree.
Jay
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From: David George <d.s.george@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 09 May 2001 21:25:25 -0500
Like "Tiny" is a nickname for a big fat guy. Like "Curly" is a nickname for a bald guy...
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 4:42 PM
FYI: In English, "Croaker" is slang for doctor, ironically enough... kind of
like shrink=psychologist.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Stacey
Harris
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 2:26 PM
Gwen,
Ah, right you are; I forgot about that:
"when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some
of the Circle to help his cause"
On names of characters:
"the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)"
He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically,
in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die".
What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are
the chief ones in my count:
Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
One-Eye (black wizard)
Goblin (short white wizard)
Silent (tall white wizard)
Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
the Lady (later called just "Lady")
Sleepy (in the later books)
It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
other languages.
I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
"Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
Lieutenant").
Steve
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 10 May 2001 01:13:54 -0600
>> frankly i m more curious about the names of the taken
You asked....
Below are the names for the original Taken from all the editions except
Russia. (I don't own the Russian editions.)
The challenge is that they are alphabetized. Can anyone correctly identify
the Taken for each country? 50 pts possible. (If someone would send me the
names from Russia, I'll add them to the challenge.)
The names varied in spelling based upon linguistic rules I don't understand
and I couldn't preserve the ligatures. My apologies to the various cultures
involved. Please send me any corrections.
The original Taken in USA/UK are:
Bonegnasher
Faceless Man
Hanged Man
Howler
Limper
Moonbiter
Nightcrawler
Shapeshifter
Soulcatcher
Stormbringer
The original Taken in Czech are:
Beztvarny
Kostizer
Kulhavec
Lovec Dusi
Lunohryz
Menivec
Nocni Slidil
Obesenec
Vichrice
Vyjec
The original Taken in French are:
l'Anonyme
Boiteux
Craque-les-Os
Croquelune
Hurleur
Pendu
Rode-la-Nuit
Seme-Tempete
Transformeur
Volesprit
The original Taken in German are:
Formwandler
Gehenkte
Gesichtslose
Heuler
Hinker
Knochenknirscher
Mondbeiser
Nachtkriecher
Seelenfanger
Sturmbringer
The original Taken in Lithuanian are:
Audronasa
Besikeiciantis
Beveidis
Kaulalauzio
Menulio Kandziotojo
Naktinis Sliuzas
Pakaruoklis
Sielagaudys
Slubis
Staugunas
The original Taken in Polish are:
Bezgebny
Duszolap
Gnatozuja
Ksiezycogryza
Kulawiec
Nocny Pelzacz
Wisielec
Wladczyni Burz
Wyjec
Zmiennoksztaltny
If this is lame let me know. I also compiled a list of many of the company
names from "The Black Company".
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: "Marcin Welnicki" <szyderca@poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 10 May 2001 10:09:35 +0200
>
> Gnatozuja- Gnatozuj (not a very big difference but...)
> Ksiezycogryza- Ksiezycogryz( the same)
And it can be pronounced differently because u dont use the specia
etters( hmmm) like z with a dot and so on...
Mocker
--
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 10 May 2001 12:02:59 +0200
The only correction is- Ksiezycogryz, Gnatozuj. You got them all right.
> The original Taken in Polish are:
> Bezgebny
> Duszolap
> Gnatozuja
> Ksiezycogryza
> Kulawiec
> Nocny Pelzacz
> Wisielec
> Wladczyni Burz
> Wyjec
> Zmiennoksztaltny
>
> If this is lame let me know. I also compiled a list of many of the company
> names from "The Black Company".
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 10 May 2001 12:12:30 +0200
> So I wouldn't rush to call Lady's Empire a "horrid totalitarian hell"
> "Totalitarian" - maybe. "Hell" it was not.
I was talking about the Dominator, his empire, and his deep buried, still
alive person.
Gwen
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 10 May 2001 12:31:19 +0200
> He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically,
> in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die".
>
Hehe, good name for him:) Thank you.
> What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are
> the chief ones in my count:
Here are the names. I give you also pronounciation clues. I put h after a
short vowel. The accent is always at the prior to the last syllable. Hope
this helps.
>
> Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
His name in Polish is Konowal [koh-noh-vaal]- the meaning is the same, but
it has another bottom to it- "fond of horses", to put it elegantly. There is
another way of referring to a doctor, Lapiduch [wah-pee-dooh -this time h
pronounced](Ghostcatcher) , but it would be too similar to Soulcatcher-
Duszolap [doo-show-aap].
> One-Eye (black wizard)
Jednooki [yad-noh-oh-kee]- One Eyed.
> Goblin (short white wizard)
Goblin it is. [goh-bleen]
> Silent (tall white wizard)
Milczek [meal-check :)))]. The original I think would mean "he who is
silent", but the translation gives: "won't talk", that gives more expression
value to it, I think.
> Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
Kruk [krook]. This is actually Crow, because Raven, Wrona [vroh-naa], is
originally a genus femininum word. That wouldn't match Raven, I think,
though could be percieved ironic.
> the Lady (later called just "Lady")
Pani [Paanee], and means exactly the same- with a litle change in the
cultural line. More like Mistress/ Ma'am.
> Sleepy (in the later books)
Spioch, Spioszka {ok, this one is tough) [Sh'-pyoh, h pronounced;
Sh'-pyoh-shkaa. make the sh very soft, like half sh, half e]- first version
is male, second is female. A bit of irony added to the meaning.
>
> It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in
> other languages.
>
> I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like
> "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the
> Lieutenant").
>
You are right, they are.
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 10 May 2001 12:34:39 +0200
> > add to that
> >
Ok :)
> > darling
Cukierek [Tsu-kye-rehk], Candy
> > big bucket
Kubel [Koo-baw]
> > mercy
I can't identify anyone under that name.
> > tom-tom
Tam-tam- the same.
> > smoke
Same as with mercy
> >
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 10 May 2001 12:35:58 +0200
> > Gnatozuja- Gnatozuj (not a very big difference but...)
> > Ksiezycogryza- Ksiezycogryz( the same)
He means that names ending in a vowel are usually female.
Gwen
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 10 May 2001 12:35:03 +0200
> FYI: In English, "Croaker" is slang for doctor, ironically enough... kind
of
> like shrink=psychologist.
Thank you.
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From: "Jakub Krzyzan" <KrzyzanJ@prokom.pl>
Subject: (glencook-fans) nie =?iso-8859-2?Q?rozdziobi=B1_nas=2E=2E=2E?=
Date: 10 May 2001 13:08:14 +0200
>> Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
>Kruk [krook]. This is actually Crow, because Raven, Wrona [vroh-naa], =
is
>originally a genus femininum word. That wouldn't match Raven, I think,=
>though could be percieved ironic.
Pomyli=B3a=B6 si=EA Gwen. Raven to kruk. Crow - wrona.
Pozdrawiam,
Kuba=
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 10 May 2001 05:21:14 -0600
on 5/10/01 4:34 AM, gwen at gwen1@wp.pl wrote:
>>> mercy
>
> I can't identify anyone under that name.
I think that would be Laska at the very beginning of Czarna Kompania.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 10 May 2001 05:41:23 -0600
Czech, French, German, Lithuanian, Polish
> Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes)
Felcare, Toubib, Croaker, Krankly, Konowal
> One-Eye (black wizard)
Jednooky, Qu'un-CEil, Einauge, Vienaakis, Jednooki
> Goblin (short white wizard)
Skret, Gobelin, Goblin, Goblinas, Goblin
> Silent (tall white wizard)
Nemluva, Silence, Schweiger, Tylenis, Milczek
> Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background)
Havran, Corbeau, Raven, Varnas, Kruk
> the Lady (later called just "Lady")
Pani, Dame, Lady, Valdove, Pani
Others are:
Captain
Kapitan, Capitaine, Hauptmann, Kapitonu, Kapitan
Lieutenant
Porucik, Lieutenant, Leutnant, Leitenantas, Porucznik
Mercy
Soucit, Misericorde, Mercy, Laimingasis, Laska
Pawnbroker
Lichvar, Mont-de-Piete, Pfandleiher, Palukininkas, Lichwiarz
Darling
Pusinko, Cherie, Darling, Brangute, Pupilka
Elmo
Jilmac, Elmo, Elmo, Elmo, Elmo
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: "Marcin Welnicki" <szyderca@poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 10 May 2001 14:26:14 +0200
> > > smoke
I think I can give u that one- he's the wizard from Taglios, right?
If so he is called Kopec( I leave the spelling and degfinition to gwen :))
Mocker
--
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From: "sluagh" <ginger@isp.pl>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 10 May 2001 17:46:58 +0200
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 12:34 PM
>
> > > add to that
> > >
> Ok :)
>
> > > darling
>
> Cukierek [Tsu-kye-rehk], Candy
>
> > > big bucket
>
> Kubel [Koo-baw]
>
> > > mercy
>
> I can't identify anyone under that name.
Laska. 1 tom, zaraz na poczatku. Ten, co "obrywal muchom skrzydelka".
>
> > > tom-tom
>
> Tam-tam- the same.
>
> > > smoke
>
> Same as with mercy
Kopec. Ksiegi Poludnia.
--
sluagh, Sad Faerie
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From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 10 May 2001 11:06:02 -0500
Gwen,
Thanks for the Polish versions of the names!
Ravens and crows are very similar birds; I suspect they are closely
related. So it's not a terrible translation to give Raven a name which
translates more precisely as "crow". However, ravens, in particular,
are more associated with battlefields, as eaters of dead bodies, than
are crows (though I don't know if this is just myth or an accurate
perception), and that is the undertone associated with the name "Raven".
Mercy is a minor character; he's called that because he has none :) I
think he's in the early books (maybe the second?).
Smoke is in the Books of the South; he's the native wizard that the
Prahbindradrah has at his disposal.
Steve
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From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 10 May 2001 11:12:26 -0500
Eric,
I think this is quite interesting--but I have linguist stirrings in my
heart. So I'd like to see what you've compiled with the Company names,
as well.
Steve
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers
Date: 10 May 2001 13:23:37 -0300
Stacey Harris wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> (spoiler space on first Black Company books)
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> Nice speculation there on Bomanz's rank in things:
>
> "If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a
> post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during
> the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken"
>
> I agree. And that gives some measure of answer to my question about how
> often a Dominator (or Lady) might arise: Some 4 centuries later (I'm
> not certain of the timeline--how long after the Opening does The Black
> Company commence?), there is, apparently, only one practitioner in the
> North who even comes close to being used in comparison with the Mighty
> Ones. So maybe an actual Dominator-level character comes along only
> once in a millenium or thereabouts.
>
I'd say part of the problem is the combination of Talent and Knowledge.
Look at Lisa from book 2 - she had the talent to be a top level wizard,
but no training.
Bomanz - had the talent and some training, enough to know he'd never
learn enough to reach the limits of his talents. Hundreds of years
after the downfall of the Evil Empire Rule by Magic and the resulting
book burning there just wan't enough magically knowledge left in that
part of the world for him to expand to his limits. He'd hit a level
where he could kill with a word (far beyond One Eye), but that was it.
To expand farther he needed a teacher - someone at the level of the
Taken or the Lady.
Then we have young Tobo - birth prophesized, trained by Goblin, One Eye,
The Lady, and a Shadowmaster (think there were a few as well). Mother's
line had magic abilities, father's line (a distance one from the north)
has some magic (riding Smoke, being a Ghost). With the stuff in
Soldiers Live I'd say a whole lot of planning went into to his birth and
training - and he had the potencial to be a Dominator level wizard.
But what if he's been born without all that planning - in the middle of
a farm village where there wasn't even a local wise woman? He could
have gone though life without reaching One Eye's level.
How many people like Lisa (Taken level talents and no training) have
there been? We'll never know.
All we do know is that in the time it took the Lady to raise the Empire
and set half the world against her there were only 18 wizards with the
talents to stand against her - and some of them (like Feather and
Journey) weren't all that good.
> Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad
> Dominator-type? Her level would come along every couple millenia or so, maybe.
>
I'd say it's rarer than that. You've got what Father Tree is sitting
over, then Kina - with the Dominator being the only one in recorded
history between the two that raised an Empire.
Richard
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 10 May 2001 14:09:12 -0300
Igor Filippov wrote:
>
> The Empire was "such a horrid totalitarian hell" ?????
> I had an impression that was what rebel propaganda tried to brainwash
> common folk into thinking. There're plenty of evidence that Lady's
> leadership was quite beneficial for people in a lot of ways. To name
> one there's a discussion about cultivating medicinal herbs that made
> Croaker ask himself - would a total Evil worry about medicine for common
> people ?
There were good and bad things about the Empire
.
.
.
Spoilers - Silver Spike
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The Taken liked to amuse themselves - at least the Limper did. Anywhere
he was would have been close to hell on Earth, but the Lady wasn't the
Dominator. She saw things issue of long term growth. Destroy a village
today and it won't pay any taxes tomorrow.
Or next year.
Or the year afterwards.
Destroy a village and you've destroyed an asset.
The Dominator needed to control and demonstrate his control, and the
only real way you can prove you have power over another is making the
other suffer. The Lady seemed more secure in her knowledge that she was
the second most powerful thing (at least until she meet Father Tree) in
the world.
During the Silver Spike there's a conversation that spells out that for
the little guy the Empire was better than what was before. Before they
had to fund war after war as landowners fought to increase their
holdings, but if you weren't at the border of the Empire your village
didn't see anyt fighting. No armies tramped through your fields, you
could live on the farm in peace.
Sure, you weren't free - but they weren't free before that and the Lady
was a more distance and less cruel master than the old lords were.
>
> Rebels on the other hand weren't shy to employ the very same cruel methods
> they were accusing Lady of using....
> Croaker describes Rebels as anything but sweet idealistic fighters for
> freedom.
Idealists don't win wars - they never had and never will. Idealism is
usually one of the first casulties in war.
In a war both sides do things they don't brag about later.
(Brief aside: During the D-Day invasion some Canadian troops were
capture then killed by an SS unit. The General in charge of the unit
was convict of failing to prevent that from happening and sentenced to
death (they couldn't prove he ordered it but the sentence was the
same). When it came time for the head Canadian officer in the field to
confirm the death sentence, he didn't - saying something like "Who
hasn't given the order not to take prisoners?" In theory there could
have been many Allied officers convicted of war crimes, but the winning
side didn't put them on trial.)
Richard
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 10 May 2001 14:48:27 -0300
Joseph McGrath wrote:
>
> I believe the reason Croaker is called Croaker is that he is a physician.
> During primitive times you usually died when they had to call the doctor.
> Hence, Croaker is slang for Doctor. People were deathly afraid of doctors
> because when someone called the doctor it meant you were on the way out.
> When you read, "The Garrett Files," There is something about, when you get
> sent to the Bledsoe charity hospital you never leave except for a one way
> trip to the boneyard.
There's underlining reason for the names in the Black Company books - or
at least there's a statement by Cook to that affect.
In his Dread Empire series the names were... interesting. You really
wanted a pronunciation guide for that series, and someone (a reviewer?)
mentioned something to Cook about his choice of names. So in the Black
Company we have some very simple (at least simple in English) names.
Croaker.
Elmo
Mercy
Raven
Even the sorcerers had simple names as opposed to mystic sounding ones.
You have Soulcatcher, not something like Hyenertill'Deren (which gets
explained as being the (forget the name of the language only the Taken
still spoke) term for Catcher of Souls).
> spoilers...
>
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
> Recall how Croaker is always bemoaning the fact that he doesn't do near as
> much as he could for the wounded. But! If he had a good team of compitent
> surgeons he would have, "a good chance of doing some good for a change."
> (Battle at the Stair of Tear.)
I think Croaker was just feeling overwhelmed. As the sole doctor he was
forced to do triage (helping as many as he could while letting some die
because he didn't have the time to treat them). Think back to the old
TV series MASH - you often had the lead doctors moaning about meatball
surgery and how if they only had more time and better equipment they
could do more.
Croaker diagnosed and came up with an antidote to the poision in book
one. He was respected by the men - so much so that they followed his
camp sanitation instructions. I'd say he did a lot of good most times,
but during the retreat there just wasn't much he could do.
Richard
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From: Sebastian <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon
Date: 10 May 2001 13:45:53 -0600
The infamous 1100 page crime novel has been deliverd to the publisher.
No title or publish date yet.
Glen is now working on "something new".
Your guess is as good as mine.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>>
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From: Matthew Roche <MatthewR@CerebusCorp.com>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon
Date: 10 May 2001 13:51:17 -0600
Woo Hoo!!!
(Now we can start the waiting and the looking and the swearing...)
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 3:46 PM
The infamous 1100 page crime novel has been deliverd to the publisher.
No title or publish date yet.
Glen is now working on "something new".
Your guess is as good as mine.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>>
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 10 May 2001 18:34:09 -0600
> I think this is quite interesting--but I have linguist stirrings in my
> heart. So I'd like to see what you've compiled with the Company names,
> as well.
I have published what I have so far in the message "Re: (glencook-fans)
names". It was a rather time consuming and difficult task just to identify
the ten Taken. I may do more later.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: David George <d.s.george@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 10 May 2001 22:56:28 -0500
How'd I do, Eric? The French was easiest (that was my High
School language) but the German was pretty much guess work.
My German is an accident waiting to happen. For example,
I know "Ein bier, bitte" (Another beer, please) but do I
know how to ask directions to the loo? Nein. I'd have to
rely on my powers of observation. Or pictograms or
something. Or have a stout bladder and perhaps a pair of
Depends.
I know better than to even try the eastern stuff. Oh, I
think it looks and sounds cool as hell, but I don't
actually know what it means. Like: "Bezgebny." No idea
what it means. I bet I could start a fight with another
American (who would no doubt be equally ignorant) if I
called him one in the right tone of voice, though. Them's
fightin words!
The original Taken in French are:
l'Anonyme = Faceless Man
Boiteux = Limper
Craque-les-Os = Bonegnasher
Croquelune = Moonbiter
Hurleur = Howler
Pendu = The Hanged Man
Rode-la-Nuit = Nightcrawler
Seme-Tempete = Stormbringer
Transformeur = Shapeshifter
Volesprit = Soulcatcher
The original Taken in German are:
Formwandler = Shapeshifter
Gehenkte = The Hanged Man?
Gesichtslose = The Faceless Man?
Heuler = Howler
Hinker = Limper?
Knochenknirscher = Soulcatcher?
Mondbeiser = Moonbiter
Nachtkriecher = Nightcrawler
Seelenfanger = Bonegnasher?
Sturmbringer = Stormbringer
DG
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 2:14 AM
>> frankly i m more curious about the names of the taken
You asked....
Below are the names for the original Taken from all the
editions except
Russia. (I don't own the Russian editions.)
The challenge is that they are alphabetized. Can anyone
correctly identify
the Taken for each country? 50 pts possible. (If someone
would send me the
names from Russia, I'll add them to the challenge.)
The names varied in spelling based upon linguistic rules I
don't understand
and I couldn't preserve the ligatures. My apologies to the
various cultures
involved. Please send me any corrections.
The original Taken in USA/UK are:
Bonegnasher
Faceless Man
Hanged Man
Howler
Limper
Moonbiter
Nightcrawler
Shapeshifter
Soulcatcher
Stormbringer
The original Taken in Czech are:
Beztvarny
Kostizer
Kulhavec
Lovec Dusi
Lunohryz
Menivec
Nocni Slidil
Obesenec
Vichrice
Vyjec
The original Taken in French are:
l'Anonyme
Boiteux
Craque-les-Os
Croquelune
Hurleur
Pendu
Rode-la-Nuit
Seme-Tempete
Transformeur
Volesprit
The original Taken in German are:
Formwandler
Gehenkte
Gesichtslose
Heuler
Hinker
Knochenknirscher
Mondbeiser
Nachtkriecher
Seelenfanger
Sturmbringer
The original Taken in Lithuanian are:
Audronasa
Besikeiciantis
Beveidis
Kaulalauzio
Menulio Kandziotojo
Naktinis Sliuzas
Pakaruoklis
Sielagaudys
Slubis
Staugunas
The original Taken in Polish are:
Bezgebny
Duszolap
Gnatozuja
Ksiezycogryza
Kulawiec
Nocny Pelzacz
Wisielec
Wladczyni Burz
Wyjec
Zmiennoksztaltny
If this is lame let me know. I also compiled a list of many
of the company
names from "The Black Company".
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: ß╥╔╙╘┴╥╚ ≡╧╠╔╦┴╥╨╧╫╔▐ ·┴┬╧╩╬┘╩-δ┴╬─┼╠╤┬╥┼╬╦╧ <korobka@beep.ru>
Subject: Re: RE: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 11 May 2001 10:35:58 +0400 (MSD)
Good afternoon! I can to say Russian names of taken, and of some other
characters.
Bonegnasher = Kostoglod
Faceless Man = Bezlikij
Hanged Man = Poveshennyj
Howler = Revun
Limper = Hromoi
Moonbiter = Lunogryz
Nightcrawler = Kradushiisja v nochi
Shapeshifter = Menjajushij oblik
Soulcatcher = Dushelov
Stormbringer = Zovushjaja burju
Whisper = Shopot
Feather = Pero
Journey = Strannik
Croaker = Kostoprav (or Karkun, in other tranlation)
Goblin = Goblin
Smoke = Kopchyonyj
Lady = Gospozha
Dominator = Vlastelin
In two different translations, Croaker had two names:Karkun - literal
translation of "Croaker", Kostoprav - doctor, which correct bones.
I don't sure, but I can translate some names on Czech:
Faceless Man = Beztvarny
Bonegnasher = Kostizer
Soulcatcher = Lovec Dusi
Moonbiter = Lunohryz
Shapeshifter = Menivec
Nightcrawler = Nocni Slidil
Lithuanian:
Menulio Kandziotojo = Shapeshifter(?)
Naktinis Sliuzas = Nightcrawler(?)
Polish:
Bezgebny = Faceless Man (?)
Duszolap = Soulcatcher
Ksiezycogryza = Moonbiter
Nocny Pelzacz = Nightcrawler
Wisielec = Hanged man
Zmiennoksztaltny = Shapeshifter
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 11 May 2001 11:01:27 +0200
> > > > smoke
>
> I think I can give u that one- he's the wizard from Taglios, right?
> If so he is called Kopec( I leave the spelling and degfinition to gwen :))
>
> Mocker
Here it comes:
Kopec [koh-peh-tch'] -something nasty that gives away smoke.
Gwen
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 11 May 2001 11:12:28 +0200
> >>> mercy
> >
> > I can't identify anyone under that name.
>
> I think that would be Laska at the very beginning of Czarna Kompania.
oh, yes, thanks.
gwen
laska [waas-kaa] meaning exactly the same
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 11 May 2001 11:15:02 +0200
> Thanks for the Polish versions of the names!
You are very welcome.
>
> Ravens and crows are very similar birds;
yes, and now among the polish mambers of this group there was a voice, that
I am mistaken, and Ravens name is transleted all right. My fault.
Thank you for feedback
Gwen
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From: "gwen" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 11 May 2001 11:01:27 +0200
> > > > smoke
>
> I think I can give u that one- he's the wizard from Taglios, right?
> If so he is called Kopec( I leave the spelling and degfinition to gwen :))
>
> Mocker
Here it comes:
Kopec [koh-peh-tch'] -something nasty that gives away smoke.
Gwen
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 11 May 2001 08:14:45 -0600
on 5/10/01 9:56 PM, David George at d.s.george@verizon.net wrote:
> How'd I do, Eric? The French was easiest (that was my High
> School language) but the German was pretty much guess work.
I'll post the answers in a few more days to allow time for others to try
their hand. However, I will send a score privately.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 11 May 2001 15:51:58 -0600
on 5/10/01 11:48 AM, Richard Chilton at rchilton@auracom.com wrote:
> There's underlining reason for the names in the Black Company books - or
> at least there's a statement by Cook to that affect.
> In his Dread Empire series the names were... interesting. You really
> wanted a pronunciation guide for that series, and someone (a reviewer?)
> mentioned something to Cook about his choice of names. So in the Black
> Company we have some very simple (at least simple in English) names.
> Croaker.
> Elmo
> Mercy
> Raven
> Even the sorcerers had simple names as opposed to mystic sounding ones.
> You have Soulcatcher, not something like Hyenertill'Deren (which gets
> explained as being the (forget the name of the language only the Taken
> still spoke) term for Catcher of Souls).
The Black Company books are somewhat unique in that characters do not have
"native" names. They, for the most part, have common noun names or titles.
It seems that they have mostly been translated to common nouns and titles.
So I guess it isn't that surprising that Elmo is Elmo in all the books,
except in the Czech Republic.
But I find it surprising that Goblin wasn't. Or that is how it appears to
me. I'm sure every culture has some goblin-like creature as part of their
literary tradition. I don't understand why his name wasn't translated to the
name of that creature.
Again the Czech edition is different in that it translates Goblin to Skret.
Anyone know what a Skret is?
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: "Chuck red_snot" <red_snot@beer.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers)
Date: 11 May 2001 18:00:24 -0700
I know it has been a while since the book came out, but I just got
through reading it (having been distracted by life and its
adventures).
I must say that without a doubt, that was the finest BC book I have
read. I thought that the level of emotion at the end was new and
completely justified considering the circumstances. It was truly a
masterpiece.
And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you),
but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose
Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't
possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the
glittering plane saga ended brought good closer.
It is like other great books or even movies you saw that you on the
one hand wish there was a sequel, but you knew that the author or
director nailed the story so beautifully that to make a sequel would
only mock the original.
If there are more BC books (and I know there was some discussion of
this on the list, but as I've said I have been occupied elsewhere), I
will read them. Perhaps Cook can recapture this magic. If he does
write more BC, I certainly hope he does.
I'd rather be drunk
Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at beer.com.
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers)
Date: 11 May 2001 22:51:59 -0300
Chuck red_snot wrote:
>
> I know it has been a while since the book came out, but I just got
> through reading it (having been distracted by life and its
> adventures).
>
> I must say that without a doubt, that was the finest BC book I have
> read. I thought that the level of emotion at the end was new and
> completely justified considering the circumstances. It was truly a
> masterpiece.
>
It clearly the best of the Glittering Stone books, but for emotional
ending there's that little speech Lady makes at the end of her
chronicles (Dreams of Steal). Of course, that one was followed by a
years long wait so it does stick in the mind.
> And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you),
> but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose
> Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't
> possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the
> glittering plane saga ended brought good closer.
>
I agree - the end of Soldiers Live should be the end of the series. He
might do something with other eras in that world (I'd love to see early
Black Company [maybe after the Pain God bit or when Croaker joined as a
young man] or something set in the Domination), but the story of the
company has run its courses. I've seen too many writters try to milk
success with one or two more books that fail to expanded a tale that has
ended to want to see that happen with the Company.
> It is like other great books or even movies you saw that you on the
> one hand wish there was a sequel, but you knew that the author or
> director nailed the story so beautifully that to make a sequel would
> only mock the original.
>
Agreed. Alas, too many try to do cash in and fail - remember The
Godfather Part III?
> If there are more BC books (and I know there was some discussion of
> this on the list, but as I've said I have been occupied elsewhere), I
> will read them. Perhaps Cook can recapture this magic. If he does
> write more BC, I certainly hope he does.
>
After the end of Soldiers Live, any book he writes with the Black
Company won't have the look and feel of a Black Company novel. Without
giving away the end of Soldiers Live, too much would be missing for it
to feel like a Black Company novel to me.
Richard
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From: "Jordan Raney" <jrraney@mediaone.net>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers)
Date: 11 May 2001 21:21:18 -0500
>>>And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you),
but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose
Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't
possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the
glittering plane saga ended brought good closer.<<<
I actually agree with you. Cook closed up the series absolutely perfectly,
in my opinion. It's the same feeling I have for the Lord of the Rings
trilogy: both sagas are amazing, but they have such excellent closure that
I just couldn't imagine them being added to in any way. They're too goo.
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From: Peter Leitch <pleitch@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers)
Date: 11 May 2001 22:54:23 -0700
Argh! Nuts to you both. I was sorry to see the end. I remember picking up
the ninth book or was it the tenth? ... anyway, it was years after the
previous. Finally another book! I have enjoyed many series over the years
but rarely over so long a time and with such enjoyment. I for one, am sorry
you say "that's all". If there is another one he can add to the series then I
say "great"! A funny story with that was when I picked up that book, I said
"Finally, the ninth in the trilogy!", and walked away with a big smile on my
face, happy to have it.
Let him keep writing while he is still alive. I was sad when Roger Zelazny
died. His Amber series gave me and mine such joy over the years. What it
lacked I thought was the depth that Glen Cook developed through his series.
There is a lot to be said for "bigger" books. The Rings were a joy. They
were big with the depth to fill them. And, they were all there when I first
discovered them.
Which could start another discussion. Who has the most enjoyment? Us that
have been through the series since it first came out or those that came later
-- those that have the set to read fresh, from start to finish. I image those
people are rare. I know I had a hard time scrounging the book stores before I
accumulated enough to gift two complete sets. Maybe its time for another
printing?
>>>And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you),
> but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose
> Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't
> possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the
> glittering plane saga ended brought good closer.<<<
>
> I actually agree with you. Cook closed up the series absolutely perfectly,
> in my opinion. It's the same feeling I have for the Lord of the Rings
> trilogy: both sagas are amazing, but they have such excellent closure that
> I just couldn't imagine them being added to in any way. They're too goo.
>
> =======================================================================
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From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon
Date: 12 May 2001 03:49:18 -0400 (EDT)
>
>The infamous 1100 page crime novel has been deliverd to the publisher.
>No title or publish date yet.
>
Does anyone else's heart pound a little faster for a minute
after reading news like this? :-) Can't wait!
Steve
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers)
Date: 12 May 2001 10:44:25 -0300
Peter Leitch wrote:
>
> Argh! Nuts to you both. I was sorry to see the end. I remember picking up
> the ninth book or was it the tenth? ... anyway, it was years after the
> previous. Finally another book!
I remember that long wait. Horrible. All because of some mix up with
Cook's contract.
> I have enjoyed many series over the years
> but rarely over so long a time and with such enjoyment. I for one, am sorry
> you say "that's all". If there is another one he can add to the series then I
> say "great"!
If he can pull off another one I'll buy it, but the end of the last book
has the feel of the last book in a series. By the end of it virtually
all our questions have been answered - at least about the South books
(everything after Silver Spike), and I can't see how one more power
could improve it.
> A funny story with that was when I picked up that book, I said
> "Finally, the ninth in the trilogy!", and walked away with a big smile on my
> face, happy to have it.
>
You know if things hadn't been screwed up way back when it would have
been a trilogy. The entire Glitter Stone series in one book. With that
in mind the wait seems worth it.
> Let him keep writing while he is still alive. I was sad when Roger Zelazny
> died.
Same here. Tragic in a way.
> His Amber series gave me and mine such joy over the years.
The worse part: He'd announced that he was planning another 5 books.
It would have tied together elements from the firs and second five. He
wrote some short stories to lay the ground work (one involved contacting
a couple of siblings who left Amber years ago and haven't been heard
since - not even during the succession / pattern fall war), then died.
> What it
> lacked I thought was the depth that Glen Cook developed through his series.
Two completely different styles of writting - although at times Croaker
and Corwin seem to share some traits. They are both telling their
stories to others and both (reportedly) lie during their stories.
> There is a lot to be said for "bigger" books. The Rings were a joy. They
> were big with the depth to fill them. And, they were all there when I first
> discovered them.
>
The biggest disappointment about the Rings? Finishing the story and
discovering that the last half of the last book was appendixes.
Speaking of the Rings I've seen the trailer for the first movie, and it
looks wonderful.
> Which could start another discussion. Who has the most enjoyment? Us that
> have been through the series since it first came out or those that came later
> -- those that have the set to read fresh, from start to finish. I image those
> people are rare. I know I had a hard time scrounging the book stores before I
> accumulated enough to gift two complete sets. Maybe its time for another
> printing?
>
I think the Black Company has been in print since it was published, but
not some of the other books. Think the hardest to find is The Silver
Spike / Books of the South ones.
Richard
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From: Troy Lefman <tslefman@ctcis.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers)
Date: 12 May 2001 11:44:40 +0000
Not to go off on tangents but the paperback of Soldiers Live is available
for us cheap bastards.
Chuck red_snot wrote:
> I know it has been a while since the book came out, but I just got
> through reading it (having been distracted by life and its
> adventures).
>
> I must say that without a doubt, that was the finest BC book I have
> read. I thought that the level of emotion at the end was new and
> completely justified considering the circumstances. It was truly a
> masterpiece.
>
> And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you),
> but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose
> Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't
> possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the
> glittering plane saga ended brought good closer.
>
> It is like other great books or even movies you saw that you on the
> one hand wish there was a sequel, but you knew that the author or
> director nailed the story so beautifully that to make a sequel would
> only mock the original.
>
> If there are more BC books (and I know there was some discussion of
> this on the list, but as I've said I have been occupied elsewhere), I
> will read them. Perhaps Cook can recapture this magic. If he does
> write more BC, I certainly hope he does.
>
> I'd rather be drunk
> Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at beer.com.
>
> =======================================================================
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> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
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From: "Joseph McGrath" <jomcgrath@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 12 May 2001 14:06:55 -0000
Thanks for speculating Eric.
I just had an idea. Since Glenn draws so heavily from obscure Indian
mythology perhaps there is somebody out there who can translate some of
names from farsi. I mean Kina is a real member of that polytheistic deity
ridden culture. The aspects of castes and the levels of societal cultures
plays such a huge role in the books of the south that ther'es got to be
somebody out there who knows alot about this and can add to this discussion.
spoilers..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Key points....
From the Garrett files. Where did he get the idea for the kef-sidhe
strangler cords with the conical pieces of cork woven into them so they
won't let go of the victims neck. And how about the strangler cults, aka
Decievers? That's got to have roots in some farsi culture.... Anybody out
there who can add to that?
Thanks, Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 9:51 PM
> on 5/10/01 11:48 AM, Richard Chilton at rchilton@auracom.com wrote:
>
> > There's underlining reason for the names in the Black Company books - or
> > at least there's a statement by Cook to that affect.
> > In his Dread Empire series the names were... interesting. You really
> > wanted a pronunciation guide for that series, and someone (a reviewer?)
> > mentioned something to Cook about his choice of names. So in the Black
> > Company we have some very simple (at least simple in English) names.
> > Croaker.
> > Elmo
> > Mercy
> > Raven
> > Even the sorcerers had simple names as opposed to mystic sounding ones.
> > You have Soulcatcher, not something like Hyenertill'Deren (which gets
> > explained as being the (forget the name of the language only the Taken
> > still spoke) term for Catcher of Souls).
>
> The Black Company books are somewhat unique in that characters do not have
> "native" names. They, for the most part, have common noun names or titles.
>
> It seems that they have mostly been translated to common nouns and titles.
>
> So I guess it isn't that surprising that Elmo is Elmo in all the books,
> except in the Czech Republic.
>
> But I find it surprising that Goblin wasn't. Or that is how it appears to
> me. I'm sure every culture has some goblin-like creature as part of their
> literary tradition. I don't understand why his name wasn't translated to
the
> name of that creature.
>
> Again the Czech edition is different in that it translates Goblin to
Skret.
> Anyone know what a Skret is?
>
> --
> Eric Herrmann
> <shpshftr@xmission.com>
>
>
> =======================================================================
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 12 May 2001 15:23:04 -0300
Joseph McGrath wrote:
>
> Thanks for speculating Eric.
> I just had an idea. Since Glenn draws so heavily from obscure Indian
> mythology perhaps there is somebody out there who can translate some of
> names from farsi. I mean Kina is a real member of that polytheistic deity
> ridden culture. The aspects of castes and the levels of societal cultures
> plays such a huge role in the books of the south that ther'es got to be
> somebody out there who knows alot about this and can add to this discussion.
> spoilers..
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> .
>
> .
>
> Key points....
> >From the Garrett files. Where did he get the idea for the kef-sidhe
> strangler cords with the conical pieces of cork woven into them so they
> won't let go of the victims neck. And how about the strangler cults, aka
> Decievers? That's got to have roots in some farsi culture.... Anybody out
> there who can add to that?
> Thanks, Joe
I always thought the strangler cults were drawn from the Thugges (might
be spelling that wrong) cult - an East Indian (i.e. from India, not
North America) group that existed in India for quite a long time. They
worshiped the goddess Kali and their practices were a lot like those of
Cook's cult - specially as it is first explained to the Lady in Dreams
of Steel. Existing as a Hindu offshoot for centuries it was only whiped
out by a long British campaign. Rumours exist that they might still be
around, and that was more or less the plot of Indiana Jones and the
Temple of Doom movie.
The cork thing - I think that might have come from the the Thugges. If
not, I'm sure I've heard of it before somewhere - maybe linked to the
Assassins (i.e. the group whose name gives us the english words for
assassin and hashish)?
Richard
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From: timtheencntr@aol.com
Subject: (glencook-fans) daughter of the night
Date: 12 May 2001 16:40:42 EDT
--part1_ca.14eeec46.282ef9ca_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have a question about the daughter of the night, i remember that at
shwadowgate she was put in a cage that had a magic spell on it, if she tried
to escape she would be choked and if she tried to destroy the cage the same
would happen to her. she was then taken by soulcatcher to taglios and then
subsecquently escaped from soulcatcher, no mention of the cage is given or
how she was able to get away from it.
any clues or ideas?
by the way i am scott, i live in las vegas and am ne wto the group
--part1_ca.14eeec46.282ef9ca_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>I have a question about the daughter of the night, i remember that at
<BR>shwadowgate she was put in a cage that had a magic spell on it, if she tried
<BR>to escape she would be choked and if she tried to destroy the cage the same
<BR>would happen to her. she was then taken by soulcatcher to taglios and then
<BR>subsecquently escaped from soulcatcher, no mention of the cage is given or
<BR>how she was able to get away from it.
<BR>any clues or ideas?
<BR>by the way i am scott, i live in las vegas and am ne wto the group</FONT></HTML>
--part1_ca.14eeec46.282ef9ca_boundary--
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From: David George <d.s.george@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 12 May 2001 15:48:52 -0500
Ummm. I think "Farsi" is the language spoken by Persians.
If I'm right about that, then their society is pretty
monotheistic (No God But Allah) right at the moment. I
believe that is also where Zoroastrianism started, another
monotheistic form of worship, if I recall, prepared to be
pretty mistaken about that though as it is a long reach
back into stuff I haven't read about in a while. If I am
right, the Persians will probably take offense at being
associated with the stranglers, though. Most of what was
Persia and the Persians is in the country we now call Iran.
At the height of things, their empire also included
Turkey, the fertile crescent, etc. Then this Alexander guy
whipped their behinds pretty badly and took pretty much all
their real estate.
If you are talking about the Indian subcontinent, then
there are lots of languages and cultures: Hindi, Bengali,
Kashmiri, etc. Kina seems to me to be based on the goddess
Kali, from Hindu religion (which is one of several
religions on the subcontinent, but it is the dominant one).
The strangler cult seems to be based on the Thuggee cults,
which used strangling and murder as a way of worshipping
Kali. This cult was active during the British Raj, which
worked pretty hard to put it down. Thus the term "thug"
which now is generalized in American English as a synonym
for "criminal" but has its roots in this religion. From
what I've read about the thuggee, there were degrees and
roles, similar to the ones that Kina's stranglers have--arm
holders, etc. If I recall correctly, the thuggee were also
infamous for their skill at disposing of bodies once they
had killed someone--this involved breaking the bones with
hammers (ringing any bells here?) so that bodies could be
stowed in smaller spaces. I think they tended to avoid
bloodshedding as well. I've read that murdering someone in
a faith that believes in reincarnation is not necessarily
as bad a thing as one that does not, from a moral
perspective. I doubt their victims felt that way, though.
According to Song of Kali, by Dan Simmons, the city now
called Calcutta derives its name from Kali
worship--Kalikata was an earlier version of the name. But
that book is fiction and so this etymology may be too.
Calcutta is in Northeast India in Bengal.
I have not come across the pieces of cork thing before I
read it in a Garrett book but it is a wicked idea. Would
not surprise me to find that thugs used the practice, can't
confirm it tho.
By contrast, the Hashishim/Assassins are Islamic in origin.
If we are to believe what I've read elsewhere, they used
daggers with flame-shaped handles. They smoked hash. They
are also sometimes associated with the Ishmaelian sect of
Islam (who are no longer assassins) which is headed by the
Aga Khan. I think they maybe did hang out in Persia.
Again, I'm reaching here. As I understand it, they were a
little more political than the Thuggee in their aims but
religion was part of it.
DG
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 9:07 AM
Cc: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
Thanks for speculating Eric.
I just had an idea. Since Glenn draws so heavily from
obscure Indian
mythology perhaps there is somebody out there who can
translate some of
names from farsi. I mean Kina is a real member of that
polytheistic deity
ridden culture. The aspects of castes and the levels of
societal cultures
plays such a huge role in the books of the south that
ther'es got to be
somebody out there who knows alot about this and can add to
this discussion.
spoilers..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Key points....
From the Garrett files. Where did he get the idea for the
kef-sidhe
strangler cords with the conical pieces of cork woven into
them so they
won't let go of the victims neck. And how about the
strangler cults, aka
Decievers? That's got to have roots in some farsi
culture.... Anybody out
there who can add to that?
Thanks, Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 9:51 PM
> on 5/10/01 11:48 AM, Richard Chilton at
rchilton@auracom.com wrote:
>
> > There's underlining reason for the names in the Black
Company books - or
> > at least there's a statement by Cook to that affect.
> > In his Dread Empire series the names were...
interesting. You really
> > wanted a pronunciation guide for that series, and
someone (a reviewer?)
> > mentioned something to Cook about his choice of names.
So in the Black
> > Company we have some very simple (at least simple in
English) names.
> > Croaker.
> > Elmo
> > Mercy
> > Raven
> > Even the sorcerers had simple names as opposed to
mystic sounding ones.
> > You have Soulcatcher, not something like Hyenertill'
Deren (which gets
> > explained as being the (forget the name of the language
only the Taken
> > still spoke) term for Catcher of Souls).
>
> The Black Company books are somewhat unique in that
characters do not have
> "native" names. They, for the most part, have common noun
names or titles.
>
> It seems that they have mostly been translated to common
nouns and titles.
>
> So I guess it isn't that surprising that Elmo is Elmo in
all the books,
> except in the Czech Republic.
>
> But I find it surprising that Goblin wasn't. Or that is
how it appears to
> me. I'm sure every culture has some goblin-like creature
as part of their
> literary tradition. I don't understand why his name
wasn't translated to
the
> name of that creature.
>
> Again the Czech edition is different in that it
translates Goblin to
Skret.
> Anyone know what a Skret is?
>
> --
> Eric Herrmann
> <shpshftr@xmission.com>
>
>
> ======================================================
=================
> To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of
this list,
> visit
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
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From: "Don" <dfgarcia@stic.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon
Date: 12 May 2001 13:09:11 -0500
I can feel mine! I am eagerly looking forward to getting my grubby hands on
that book. Does anyone know how long Cook has been working on this? It seems
I have only heard about it for a year or so. 1100 words is a lot of work. If
he had a real zest for writing it, I'm sure it will be something to
remember.
That Zest seemed to be missing from the latter Glittering Stone Books. Don't
get me wrong, I loved them, but something was different. I hope Soldiers
Live was the end though. I loved the series but am ready for something Cook
is really into writing about. I feel he wrote the latter volumes because of
the series' popularity. If he comes out with another BC book I will still be
first in line, looking for that magic again.
The Garrett books are tiding me over until the new book comes out (when I
can find them). If you haven't read them, you should. Same Magic, different
theme.
I finally gave in and bought a copy of A matter of time off ebay ($9.50). I
will never find one in a used book store. Everyone says it's a good read.
Hey Eric,
I know that offer from Balticon is still on your web page. Is the offer
still good?
Don
"In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 2:49 AM
> >
> >The infamous 1100 page crime novel has been deliverd to the publisher.
> >No title or publish date yet.
> >
>
> Does anyone else's heart pound a little faster for a minute
> after reading news like this? :-) Can't wait!
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
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From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 12 May 2001 16:00:49 -0500
Joseph,
I don't know where you are picking up on Farsi culture from Glen's work;
the mythoi he draws from in the Books of the South are South Asian
(particularly Hindi), not Middle Eastern (such as Farsi = Persion = Iranian).
Steve
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon
Date: 12 May 2001 15:04:54 -0600
on 5/12/01 12:09 PM, Don at dfgarcia@stic.net wrote:
> I know that offer from Balticon is still on your web page. Is the offer
> still good?
I don't know. I do know that 835 people have viewed the page (of which
probably 35 are mine.) I tried contacting her several months ago to find out
how they were selling and I didn't get a reply.
Try it and let the rest of us know.
BTW, there is copy of "Sung in Blood" for auction on eBay. It has a
buy-it-now price of $300. Current bid $115.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: "Joseph McGrath" <jomcgrath@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 12 May 2001 20:42:44 -0000
Thanks guy's, (DG and Steve) pretty hung over from the night before. Blowing
off steam. I always get farsi and hindustani? mixed up.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..Plus forgot to mention the similiarity between nyueng boa and vietnamese.
That was pretty unmistakable to me. Not in all aspects but there was a good
deal of blending going on there. That, and other asian cultures...."Would
you like to walk the path of the sword Standard Bearer?"
cool, Thanks..
It's Cooks dialogue that is the magic for me. It's always been his strong
point. Love that way Garrett and Morley talk. The way Garret talks to
himself. The way Case does it. Bragi. Murgen. Croaker. Sleepy. I'll bet this
next book is gonna be the best for that, because he gets better and better
at it.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 9:00 PM
> Joseph,
>
> I don't know where you are picking up on Farsi culture from Glen's work;
> the mythoi he draws from in the Books of the South are South Asian
> (particularly Hindi), not Middle Eastern (such as Farsi = Persion =
Iranian).
>
> Steve
>
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From: BaronetCorvu@cs.com
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 12 May 2001 21:29:01 EDT
In a message dated 5/12/01 3:55:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
d.s.george@verizon.net writes:
> According to Song of Kali, by Dan Simmons, the city now
> called Calcutta derives its name from Kali
> worship--Kalikata was an earlier version of the name. But
> that book is fiction and so this etymology may be too.
> Calcutta is in Northeast India in Bengal.
>
This is quite factual. Calcutta is named for and originally dedicated to
Kali. There are unprovable reports that California is also named for Kali.
It is known that the name "California" was created by a Spanish monk at one
of the early mission there. A monk who had previously traveled in India. He
claimed that "California" was a nonsense word of his own creation. His
fellow monks believed that California came from a combination of "Kali" and
"fornicate." Totally unprovable today but an interesting story nonetheless.
Michael W Sweet
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From: Pat Hall <phall@chavez.astro.puc.cl>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon (fwd)
Date: 12 May 2001 02:18:11 -0400 (CLT)
> >
> >The infamous 1100 page crime novel has been deliverd to the publisher.
> >No title or publish date yet.
> Does anyone else's heart pound a little faster for a minute
> after reading news like this? :-) Can't wait!
Anyone know if his next Garrett book -- Angry Lead Skies -- has a
publication date yet? Eric Herrmann's website just says "Summer 2001".
Pat Hall
phall@astro.puc.cl
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Off topic - Some bad news
Date: 12 May 2001 00:54:10 -0300
A bit off topic, but Douglas Adams (author of _The Hitchhiker's Guide to
the Galaxy_) died on Friday from a heart attack. While his style and
Cook's aren't that similar, I know of at least one person (me) who
enjoyed both authors.
It's always a shame when a good author goes.
Richard
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From: "gwen1" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) daughter of the night
Date: 13 May 2001 11:39:07 +0200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C0DBA1.518EBB20
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a question about the daughter of the night, i remember that at=20
shwadowgate she was put in a cage that had a magic spell on it, if she =
tried=20
to escape she would be choked and if she tried to destroy the cage the =
same=20
would happen to her. she was then taken by soulcatcher to taglios and =
then=20
subsecquently escaped from soulcatcher, no mention of the cage is =
given or=20
how she was able to get away from it.=20
any clues or ideas?=20
by the way i am scott, i live in las vegas and am ne wto the group=20
answer:
She had to take the cage along
gwen
------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C0DBA1.518EBB20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#d8d4f0>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>I have a question =
about the=20
daughter of the night, i remember that at <BR>shwadowgate she was put =
in a=20
cage that had a magic spell on it, if she tried <BR>to escape she =
would be=20
choked and if she tried to destroy the cage the same <BR>would happen =
to her.=20
she was then taken by soulcatcher to taglios and then =
<BR>subsecquently=20
escaped from soulcatcher, no mention of the cage is given or <BR>how =
she was=20
able to get away from it. <BR>any clues or ideas? <BR>by the way i am =
scott, i=20
live in las vegas and am ne wto the group</FONT> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial CE" size=3D2>answer:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>She had to take the cage =
along</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>gwen</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C0DBA1.518EBB20--
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From: John Dayton <genox@earthlink.net>
Subject: (glencook-fans) books?
Date: 13 May 2001 10:19:31 -0400 (EDT)
Whats this new book you are talking about? I was at Myrtal beach last summer
and was in a Barnes and Nobel. I had just finished reading the Belgariad
and the Mallorian by David Eddings and I needed a new book to read. I saw
the black company and Soldier's Live book. I picked up the BC book and didnt
touch it till that christmas. I was bored and so I started reading....I was
immediatly entraped by this series. I read from start to finish in about 3
months. It is the best books have ever read and now my Father is reading.
The only book i thought lacked the magic the others did was Water Sleeps,
well kinda as the title says and derives its name from the book is the Water
Sleeps....they don't do much but conspire while the thing i liked was like
someone said before was the Dialog and the scenes.. My favorite scene in all
the books is when croaker and the Old Crew are leaving the other demintion
with the flying posts. THe way it is descriped reinds me of something seen
from a movie. a Man with his black armor on standing outside the gate with
fire around him. On the other side is these people going crazy. It is just
magical. But who is the other of the new book you are talking about and what
is the title, story if you know it, etc. Thanks
John Dayton
PS. I did a little research and I saw the Garret PI books. Can anyone give
me a list and the order of all the Garret PI books. Thanks.
PSS here is a logo i made for the BC.
http://home.earthlink.net/~genox/TBC_logo.jpg
Geno
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From: timtheencntr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) daughter of the night
Date: 13 May 2001 10:31:50 EDT
--part1_db.145fe628.282ff4d6_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
there is no mention of the cage after she escapes from taglios, when
soalcatcher is looking for her and narayan and when the shadow of Tobos
capture her and Narayan no mention is made of the cage
--part1_db.145fe628.282ff4d6_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>there is no mention of the cage after she escapes from taglios, when
<BR>soalcatcher is looking for her and narayan and when the shadow of Tobos
<BR>capture her and Narayan no mention is made of the cage</FONT></HTML>
--part1_db.145fe628.282ff4d6_boundary--
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 12 May 2001 11:49:51 -0300
(Note - you might want to add the word SPOILER when you are mentioning
things that are late in the series. Some of the people on this list
haven't read all the books.)
John Dayton wrote:
>
> Whats this new book you are talking about?
Cook has taken a break from fantasy and has written a detective novel.
It's not out yet, but someone was talking to Cook at a fan convention
and he said the manuscript has been delievered to the publisher.
> I was at Myrtal beach last summer
> and was in a Barnes and Nobel. I had just finished reading the Belgariad
> and the Mallorian by David Eddings and I needed a new book to read. I saw
> the black company and Soldier's Live book. I picked up the BC book and didnt
> touch it till that christmas. I was bored and so I started reading....I was
> immediatly entraped by this series. I read from start to finish in about 3
> months. It is the best books have ever read and now my Father is reading.
Have you read the entire series? One that a lot of people miss is The
Silver Spike.
> The only book i thought lacked the magic the others did was Water Sleeps,
> well kinda as the title says and derives its name from the book is the Water
> Sleeps....they don't do much but conspire while the thing i liked was like
> someone said before was the Dialog and the scenes.. My favorite scene in all
> the books is when croaker and the Old Crew are leaving the other demintion
> with the flying posts.
That is a good one. One of the scenes that somehow has stuck with me
for years (um, decades?) is actually in the first book (first chapter)
when Mercy is introduced and they round up the traitors at the inn.
Mercy dying so soon afterward to me set the tone of the books -
wonderful characters are introduced, they interact, and sometimes they
die. You're never sure which of the characters will survive any battle,
and instead of a fight scene where the character falls you get something
like "we lost X men, including Mercy".
Cook does this in most of his books (not so much in the Garret series).
That's one of the reasons I like his writing - he's not afraid of
character death. While most series keep the heros alive until the last
books or last chapters of the current book you know with Cook that the
reaper can come at any minute and claim any character. Makes the second
death of Raven so much more believable (when he slipped and fell, not
when it looked like the new Black Castle killed him).
> THe way it is descriped reinds me of something seen
> from a movie. a Man with his black armor on standing outside the gate with
> fire around him. On the other side is these people going crazy. It is just
> magical. But who is the other of the new book you are talking about and what
> is the title, story if you know it, etc. Thanks
>
> John Dayton
>
> PS. I did a little research and I saw the Garret PI books. Can anyone give
> me a list and the order of all the Garret PI books. Thanks.
Checkout http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Home.html - it has a
lot of information on Cook.
From http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/Books/GC-Biblio.html the
Garret books are:
Sweet Silver Blues, Bitter Gold Hearts, Cold Copper Tears, Old Tin
Sorrows, Dread Brass Shadows, Red Iron Nights, Deadly Quicksilver Lies,
Petty Pewter Gods, and Faded Steel Heat
Richard
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From: "John Datyon" <genox@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 13 May 2001 11:48:30 -0400
Sorry about the no spoiler warning. But yes, I missed the silver spike and
finished it a few weeks ago. That is one thing I like about cook.
> and instead of a fight scene where the character falls you get something
> like "we lost X men, including Mercy".
Yes I like this but somtimes it is sortof a disapointment that he builds up
characters such as sleepy and then she just dies....although like you said
it wouldn't really have worked if she lived some how or something...it
wouldn't be the same.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 10:49 AM
> (Note - you might want to add the word SPOILER when you are mentioning
> things that are late in the series. Some of the people on this list
> haven't read all the books.)
>
> John Dayton wrote:
> >
> > Whats this new book you are talking about?
>
> Cook has taken a break from fantasy and has written a detective novel.
> It's not out yet, but someone was talking to Cook at a fan convention
> and he said the manuscript has been delievered to the publisher.
>
> > I was at Myrtal beach last summer
> > and was in a Barnes and Nobel. I had just finished reading the
Belgariad
> > and the Mallorian by David Eddings and I needed a new book to read. I
saw
> > the black company and Soldier's Live book. I picked up the BC book and
didnt
> > touch it till that christmas. I was bored and so I started reading....I
was
> > immediatly entraped by this series. I read from start to finish in about
3
> > months. It is the best books have ever read and now my Father is
reading.
>
> Have you read the entire series? One that a lot of people miss is The
> Silver Spike.
>
> > The only book i thought lacked the magic the others did was Water
Sleeps,
> > well kinda as the title says and derives its name from the book is the
Water
> > Sleeps....they don't do much but conspire while the thing i liked was
like
> > someone said before was the Dialog and the scenes.. My favorite scene in
all
> > the books is when croaker and the Old Crew are leaving the other
demintion
> > with the flying posts.
>
> That is a good one. One of the scenes that somehow has stuck with me
> for years (um, decades?) is actually in the first book (first chapter)
> when Mercy is introduced and they round up the traitors at the inn.
> Mercy dying so soon afterward to me set the tone of the books -
> wonderful characters are introduced, they interact, and sometimes they
> die. You're never sure which of the characters will survive any battle,
> and instead of a fight scene where the character falls you get something
> like "we lost X men, including Mercy".
>
> Cook does this in most of his books (not so much in the Garret series).
> That's one of the reasons I like his writing - he's not afraid of
> character death. While most series keep the heros alive until the last
> books or last chapters of the current book you know with Cook that the
> reaper can come at any minute and claim any character. Makes the second
> death of Raven so much more believable (when he slipped and fell, not
> when it looked like the new Black Castle killed him).
>
> > THe way it is descriped reinds me of something seen
> > from a movie. a Man with his black armor on standing outside the gate
with
> > fire around him. On the other side is these people going crazy. It is
just
> > magical. But who is the other of the new book you are talking about and
what
> > is the title, story if you know it, etc. Thanks
> >
> > John Dayton
> >
> > PS. I did a little research and I saw the Garret PI books. Can anyone
give
> > me a list and the order of all the Garret PI books. Thanks.
>
> Checkout http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Home.html - it has a
> lot of information on Cook.
>
> From http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/Books/GC-Biblio.html the
> Garret books are:
> Sweet Silver Blues, Bitter Gold Hearts, Cold Copper Tears, Old Tin
> Sorrows, Dread Brass Shadows, Red Iron Nights, Deadly Quicksilver Lies,
> Petty Pewter Gods, and Faded Steel Heat
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
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> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Amy Weathers" <raistlin@zianet.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Dread Empire
Date: 13 May 2001 09:58:36 -0600
Well. I've -finally- got started reading these books. I re-read the list
to see suggested order of reading. I've gone ahead and just started with
the main series. I've almost finished book one. (I had a Very long
graduation to go to yesterday.) So far so good. I got a little lost a few
times but I think I go the jest of everything so far. Might have a question
or two at the end. We shall see.
Amy
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 13 May 2001 13:18:54 -0300
John Datyon wrote:
>
> Sorry about the no spoiler warning. But yes, I missed the silver spike and
> finished it a few weeks ago. That is one thing I like about cook.
>
> > and instead of a fight scene where the character falls you get something
> > like "we lost X men, including Mercy".
>
> Yes I like this but somtimes it is sortof a disapointment that he builds up
> characters such as sleepy and then she just dies....although like you said
> it wouldn't really have worked if she lived some how or something...it
> wouldn't be the same.
Few authors will kill off main characters, and fewer still will kill
them in non-dramatic ways. That's one thing that Cook doesn't have a
problem with - and it adds a dimension to his writing. You really never
know if he will kill off someone just like that, so there is an
underlying temsion throughout the books.
It also lets him have characters like Raven play games. In the first
novel there was a point where it looked like Raven was dead (after the
Shapeshifter, Limper, rebel thing), but he turned up again a few weeks
later. If he hadn't, well, his death would have fitted in with the
other near meaningless deaths. At the end of Shadows Linger he dies,
and we can accept it as probably real - after all the Captain and most
of the company just went down.
All those deaths really help define the mood - war is hell and people
die for no real reason. It's a dark world out there, and no one is
going to come rushing to your rescue at the last minute.
While I'm not criticizing others styles, there have been countless times
when I've been reading other authors and known that the heroes would get
through a mess ok because there were just too many pages left for a main
character to die, or it wasn't an important fight - not dramatic enough
for a death. While I can see why an author wants you to fall in love
with his characters and relate them, and many people do enjoy high drama
for a death scene, it can detract from a scene when you know there's no
real risk. Then again LotR remains a classic, and you have high drama
when one of the Nine Walkers goes down.
Speaking of favorite parts of Cook's work, I'd have to character over
the other elements - but that's hard to do. What would we know of the
characters without the dialog or Cook's narratives?
That said, his characters - specially the villians - are wonderful.
What would the early books be without someone like the Limper as a foil
the company? Without the Dominator lurking in the background? It's
been written that the hero is only as good as the villian is bad, and a
weak villian shows a weak hero - that's never the case in the world of
the Black Company where you might had weak characters but they don't
serve as the true villians.
(For weak characters I'm thinking of the one from Jupiter (Shed's friend
- the guy that Raven takes with him when he goes south) and some of the
priest in the south. Gready people, weak people, ones that are
sometimes an obstacle but aren't the main threat.)
Richard
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Dread Empire
Date: 13 May 2001 13:23:19 -0300
Amy Weathers wrote:
>
> Well. I've -finally- got started reading these books. I re-read the list
> to see suggested order of reading. I've gone ahead and just started with
> the main series. I've almost finished book one. (I had a Very long
> graduation to go to yesterday.) So far so good. I got a little lost a few
> times but I think I go the jest of everything so far. Might have a question
> or two at the end. We shall see.
>
When I read them I wasn't aware there was a main series, prologue, etc
and went with the chronological order. I was surprised later to find
that I hadn't read them in the order they were written. There are clear
breaks, but it's amazing how well they fit together. I've read many
series that were written in order that had more loose ends and
continuality breaks then the Dread Empire.
That said, it's been years since I read them. Perhaps it's time for a
re-read.
Richard
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From: "gwen1" <gwen1@wp.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) daughter of the night
Date: 13 May 2001 18:39:28 +0200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C0DBDC.0ABFBD80
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
there is no mention of the cage after she escapes from taglios, when=20
soalcatcher is looking for her and narayan and when the shadow of =
Tobos=20
capture her and Narayan no mention is made of the cage=20
eather it;s at the very end of water sleeps, or it's never mentioned, =
so she never got out.
------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C0DBDC.0ABFBD80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#d8d4f0>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>there is no mention =
of the cage=20
after she escapes from taglios, when <BR>soalcatcher is looking for =
her and=20
narayan and when the shadow of Tobos <BR>capture her and Narayan no =
mention is=20
made of the cage</FONT> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>eather it;s at the very end of water =
sleeps, or=20
it's never mentioned, so she never got=20
out.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C0DBDC.0ABFBD80--
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From: "sluagh" <ginger@isp.pl>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Off topic - Some bad news
Date: 13 May 2001 15:09:01 +0200
> A bit off topic, but Douglas Adams (author of _The Hitchhiker's Guide to
> the Galaxy_) died on Friday from a heart attack. While his style and
> Cook's aren't that similar, I know of at least one person (me) who
> enjoyed both authors.
>
> It's always a shame when a good author goes.
>
> Richard
I feel very sorry. I enjoyed much not only The Hitchhiker's Guide, but also
ups and downs of Dirk Gently's Agency. And maybe it's a cold comfort, but I
have all of a radio broadcasts of "The Hitchhicker's..." on mp3 format and
if
You'd like I'll put them on my ftp.
greetings,
--
sluagh, Sad Faerie
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stacey Harris <harrissg@slu.edu>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 13 May 2001 16:51:20 -0500
Richard,
---spoiler for Silver Spike---
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
I have to add to this:
"All those deaths really help define the mood - war is hell and people
die for no real reason. It's a dark world out there, and no one is
going to come rushing to your rescue at the last minute."
The most poigant--and realistic!--end to any of of Cook's characters is
what happens to Old Man Fish. I really got to like the old guy by the
end; he, as well as Marion Shed, had really grown. And how
characteristic of the time period--death by typhoid (or something similar).
Steve
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 13 May 2001 23:29:23 -0300
Stacey Harris wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> ---spoiler for Silver Spike---
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> ..
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> I have to add to this:
>
> "All those deaths really help define the mood - war is hell and people
> die for no real reason. It's a dark world out there, and no one is
> going to come rushing to your rescue at the last minute."
>
> The most poigant--and realistic!--end to any of of Cook's characters is
> what happens to Old Man Fish. I really got to like the old guy by the
> end; he, as well as Marion Shed, had really grown. And how
> characteristic of the time period--death by typhoid (or something similar).
>
The only other series I've found with the same gritty important people
die in period correct way type of style is The Book of Worlds trilogy.
One that comes close (but has more black vs white than most of Cook's
writtings) is the Hawk and Fisher series from Simon R Green...
Now that I think about, Green has a tendancy to introduce important
characters then kill them off, but the heroes of his books are good guys
with moral codes - something that Cook usually avoids except in his
Garret series.
Most fanstasy books skip over little things like common diseases and
other problems with life in that kind of setting. Cook doesn't. Things
that other authors ignore kill in many of Cook's book.
Thinking about what set the tone, Tom-Tom's death scene did more to
prove that there would be no last minute saves than Mercy's did.
Someone like Mercy being cut up in combat and dying is one thing; a
sorcerer somehow using magic to keep himself alive after he's been torn
apart and all he does is prolong his death agonies because no one has
either the power or the skill to save him is another. Tom-Tom death
also proved that sorcerers could die - making the deaths of the Taken
more believable.
Richard
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 13 May 2001 22:14:47 -0600
on 5/13/01 8:29 PM, Richard Chilton at rchilton@auracom.com wrote:
> The only other series I've found with the same gritty important people
> die in period correct way type of style is The Book of Worlds trilogy.
> One that comes close (but has more black vs white than most of Cook's
> writtings) is the Hawk and Fisher series from Simon R Green...
> Now that I think about, Green has a tendancy to introduce important
> characters then kill them off, but the heroes of his books are good guys
> with moral codes - something that Cook usually avoids except in his
> Garret series.
Oh, that's who wrote Hawk and Fisher.
I guess it was only appropriate then that the Hawk and Fisher covers were
used for many of the Russian editions of the Black Company.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: Tom Duncan <tduncan@satx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 13 May 2001 23:23:26 -0500
Would someone be so kind as to tell me who wrote the Book of Worlds trilogy.
Thanks
Eric Herrmann wrote:
> on 5/13/01 8:29 PM, Richard Chilton at rchilton@auracom.com wrote:
>
> > The only other series I've found with the same gritty important people
> > die in period correct way type of style is The Book of Worlds trilogy.
> > One that comes close (but has more black vs white than most of Cook's
> > writtings) is the Hawk and Fisher series from Simon R Green...
> > Now that I think about, Green has a tendancy to introduce important
> > characters then kill them off, but the heroes of his books are good guys
> > with moral codes - something that Cook usually avoids except in his
> > Garret series.
>
> Oh, that's who wrote Hawk and Fisher.
>
> I guess it was only appropriate then that the Hawk and Fisher covers were
> used for many of the Russian editions of the Black Company.
>
> --
> Eric Herrmann
> <shpshftr@xmission.com>
>
> =======================================================================
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> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
--
Tom Duncan
tduncan@satx.rr.com
ITSC1313-001
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 14 May 2001 01:36:24 -0300
Eric Herrmann wrote:
>
> on 5/13/01 8:29 PM, Richard Chilton at rchilton@auracom.com wrote:
>
> > The only other series I've found with the same gritty important people
> > die in period correct way type of style is The Book of Worlds trilogy.
> > One that comes close (but has more black vs white than most of Cook's
> > writtings) is the Hawk and Fisher series from Simon R Green...
> > Now that I think about, Green has a tendancy to introduce important
> > characters then kill them off, but the heroes of his books are good guys
> > with moral codes - something that Cook usually avoids except in his
> > Garret series.
>
> Oh, that's who wrote Hawk and Fisher.
>
> I guess it was only appropriate then that the Hawk and Fisher covers were
> used for many of the Russian editions of the Black Company.
>
Hawk and Fisher is a weird series. Starts with "Under the Blue Moon" -
a novel with a lot of comic overtones mixed with some very messy
fighting and politics. Two of the main characters who survive head to a
distance land and take the names 'Hawk' and 'Fisher' - but all
throughout the series it's never spelled out that this has happened.
Clues are scattered throughout the novels, but no obvious tie in. After
the six Hawk and Fisher books there's one called "Return to the Blue
Moon" (not sure 100% of the exact title but that sounds right) where the
personas of Hawk and Fisher are abandomned so the heroes can right the
wrongs they left behind.
I enjoyed the series, but that might just be me.
Richard
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 14 May 2001 01:42:04 -0300
Tom Duncan wrote:
>
> Would someone be so kind as to tell me who wrote the Book of Worlds trilogy.
> Thanks
>
My apologises - that's the second time I've referred to it as the Book
of Worlds trilogy. It's the Book of Words trilogy. Written by J. V.
Jones.
There's a review at: http://www.sfsite.com/10a/words18.htm
Richard
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From: Tom Duncan <tduncan@satx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 14 May 2001 00:06:56 -0500
thanks!
Richard Chilton wrote:
> Tom Duncan wrote:
> >
> > Would someone be so kind as to tell me who wrote the Book of Worlds trilogy.
> > Thanks
> >
>
> My apologises - that's the second time I've referred to it as the Book
> of Worlds trilogy. It's the Book of Words trilogy. Written by J. V.
> Jones.
>
> There's a review at: http://www.sfsite.com/10a/words18.htm
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
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--
Tom Duncan
tduncan@satx.rr.com
ITSC1313-001
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From: "Chuck red_snot" <red_snot@beer.com>
Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 14 May 2001 07:54:16 -0700
>>One of the scenes that somehow has stuck with me
for years (um, decades?) is actually in the first book (first chapter)
when Mercy is introduced and they round up the traitors at the inn.
Mercy dying so soon afterward to me set the tone of the books -
wonderful characters are introduced, they interact, and sometimes they
die. You're never sure which of the characters will survive any
battle,
and instead of a fight scene where the character falls you get
something
like "we lost X men, including Mercy".
Cook does this in most of his books (not so much in the Garret
series).
That's one of the reasons I like his writing - he's not afraid of
character death. While most series keep the heros alive until the
last
books or last chapters of the current book you know with Cook that the
reaper can come at any minute and claim any character. Makes the
second
death of Raven so much more believable (when he slipped and fell, not
when it looked like the new Black Castle killed him).
>>
I think my favorite scene was when Lady killed all those priests. Or
the severed heads on the poles. Lady could be pretty evil...
As for the death thing, your right. I found my self going over and
over certain passages thinking no author could kill a character in
such a fashion, that no the book didn't just kill off that person
beacuse his/her death should have been much more grand. In Soldiers
Live I did it again when Sleepy died.
However, the one character that all of us loved never died.
I'd rather be drunk
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From: "Chuck red_snot" <red_snot@beer.com>
Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon
Date: 14 May 2001 08:06:53 -0700
>>>> I know that offer from Balticon is still on your web page. Is
the offerstill good?
>>I don't know. I do know that 835 people have viewed the page (of
which
probably 35 are mine.) I tried contacting her several months ago to
find out
how they were selling and I didn't get a reply.
Try it and let the rest of us know.
BTW, there is copy of "Sung in Blood" for auction on eBay. It has a
buy-it-now price of $300. Current bid $115.
>>
I just got my copy of the Balticon mag like two weeks ago...
Is that a signed copy or a regular copy. Got mine off ebay for $80.
I'd rather be drunk
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 14 May 2001 14:31:40 -0300
Chuck red_snot wrote:
>
>
> I think my favorite scene was when Lady killed all those priests. Or
> the severed heads on the poles. Lady could be pretty evil...
>
> As for the death thing, your right. I found my self going over and
> over certain passages thinking no author could kill a character in
> such a fashion, that no the book didn't just kill off that person
> beacuse his/her death should have been much more grand. In Soldiers
> Live I did it again when Sleepy died.
>
> However, the one character that all of us loved never died.
>
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
But at the end of Shadow Games we were ready to accept his death -
knowing that it was something that Cook could do. And I could see
Croaker dying at the end of Soldiers Live - I won't have been surprised
if he went down then. I half expect the book to end with Croaker in the
afterlife reciting his last annal.
The most surprising death of all? One Eye.
Old age - who would have thought any of those folk would have gone in
their beds?
Richard
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From: "Don" <dfgarcia@stic.net>
Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon
Date: 15 May 2001 06:12:16 -0500
I just got word from Colette Fozard (Balticon offer). The offer is still
good.
Don
"In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 10:06 AM
> >>>> I know that offer from Balticon is still on your web page. Is
> the offerstill good?
>
> >>I don't know. I do know that 835 people have viewed the page (of
> which
> probably 35 are mine.) I tried contacting her several months ago to
> find out
> how they were selling and I didn't get a reply.
>
> Try it and let the rest of us know.
>
> BTW, there is copy of "Sung in Blood" for auction on eBay. It has a
> buy-it-now price of $300. Current bid $115.
> >>
>
> I just got my copy of the Balticon mag like two weeks ago...
>
> Is that a signed copy or a regular copy. Got mine off ebay for $80.
>
>
> I'd rather be drunk
> Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at beer.com.
>
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
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> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
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From: "Chuck red_snot" <red_snot@beer.com>
Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 15 May 2001 07:50:48 -0700
>>But at the end of Shadow Games we were ready to accept his death -
knowing that it was something that Cook could do. And I could see
Croaker dying at the end of Soldiers Live - I won't have been
surprised
if he went down then. I half expect the book to end with Croaker in
the
afterlife reciting his last annal.
The most surprising death of all? One Eye.
Old age - who would have thought any of those folk would have gone in
their beds?
Richard
>>
Your right. I expected Croaker to buy it in SL, too. In fact, i was
kind of hoping he would. But what he did do, i thought was much
better.
Yeah, it was kind of ballsy for Cook to kill Goblin at the end of WS
and then One Eye at the beginning of SL.
I'd rather be drunk
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From: Richard Chilton <rchilton@auracom.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) books? - has spoilers
Date: 15 May 2001 12:17:25 -0300
Chuck red_snot wrote:
>
> >>But at the end of Shadow Games we were ready to accept his death -
> knowing that it was something that Cook could do. And I could see
> Croaker dying at the end of Soldiers Live - I won't have been
> surprised
> if he went down then. I half expect the book to end with Croaker in
> the
> afterlife reciting his last annal.
>
> The most surprising death of all? One Eye.
> Old age - who would have thought any of those folk would have gone in
> their beds?
>
> Richard
> >>
>
> Your right. I expected Croaker to buy it in SL, too. In fact, i was
> kind of hoping he would. But what he did do, i thought was much
> better.
>
> Yeah, it was kind of ballsy for Cook to kill Goblin at the end of WS
> and then One Eye at the beginning of SL.
>
I could be wrong, but wasn't One-Eye killed on the last pages of WS?
His death mentioned almost in passing by Sleepy.
Having Croaker go into more details at the start of Soldiers Live was
great, but we already knew that poor One-Eye wasn't going to make it.
Richard
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From: ß╥╔╙╘┴╥╚ ≡╧╠╔╦┴╥╨╧╫╔▐ ·┴┬╧╩╬┘╩-δ┴╬─┼╠╤┬╥┼╬╦╧ <korobka@beep.ru>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Only for Russian(Moscow) readers
Date: 16 May 2001 11:00:56 +0400 (MSD)
Zdravstvuite! Ne mozhet li kto-nibud pomoch mne nayti v Moskve knigu "Tma vseh
nochey" po bolee-menee priemlimoy tsene? Ya videl eyo tolko u odnogo cheloveka,
no on zaprosil za neyo neskolko zverskuyu tsenu. Zaranee blagodaren.
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names
Date: 17 May 2001 00:09:20 -0600
on 5/12/01 8:06 AM, Joseph McGrath at jomcgrath@mediaone.net wrote:
> Thanks for speculating Eric.
>
>> Again the Czech edition is different in that it translates Goblin to Skret.
>> Anyone know what a Skret is?
I just got this from my Czech source:
"the meaning of Jilmac and Skret you want to know, eh... It is
familiar translation Elm is tree named here Jilm and Elmo as
derivation from Elm is Jilmac."
"Likewise Goblin translated as Skret - there is a bit difficult
transposition in the process of translation. We have word
Skret (ugly, mostly bad, small) and Skritek (mostly nice, small
fairy character). I have found sprite, fairy, elf, goblin under
item Skritek under my vocalbulary and due Goblin is not nice or
plesant guy so he has been translated as Skret..."
The Czech seem to have done what I would have expected to be done with
Goblin. But Elmo named after an Elm tree is funny.
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge
Date: 17 May 2001 10:42:37 -0600
on 5/11/01 8:14 AM, Eric Herrmann at shpshftr@xmission.com wrote:
> on 5/10/01 9:56 PM, David George at d.s.george@verizon.net wrote:
>
>> How'd I do, Eric? The French was easiest (that was my High
>> School language) but the German was pretty much guess work.
>
> I'll post the answers in a few more days to allow time for others to try
> their hand. However, I will send a score privately.
I've had the names verified for each country. Mostly spelling changes.
USA/UK: Czech: French: German:
Soulcatcher Lovec Dusi Volesprit Seelenfanger
Stormbringer Vichrice Seme-Tempete Sturmbringer
Shapeshifter Menivec Transformeur Formwandler
Hanged Man Obesenec Pendu Gehenkte
Howler Vyjec Hurleur Heuler
Limper Kulhavec Boiteux Hinker
Bonegnasher Kostizer Craque-les-Os Knochenknirscher
Nightcrawler Nocni Slidil Rode-la-Nuit Nachtkriecher
Faceless Man Beztvarny l'Anonyme Gesichtslose
Moonbiter Lunohryz Croquelune Mondbeiser
Lithuanian: Polish: Russian:
Sielagaudys Duszolap Dushelov
Audronasa Wladczyni Burz Zovushjaja burju
Besikeiciantis Zmiennoksztaltny Menjajushij oblik
Pakaruoklis Wisielec Poveshennyj
Staugunas Wyjec Revun
Slubis Kulawiec Hromoi
Kaulalauzis Gnatozuj Kostoglod
Naktinis Sliuzas Nocny Pelzacz Kradushiisja v nochi
Beveidis Bezgebny Bezlikij
Menulio Suo Ksiezycogryz Lunogryz
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
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From: Troy Lefman <tslefman@ctcis.net>
Subject: (glencook-fans) The Garrett Files
Date: 18 May 2001 06:43:42 +0000
I'm about 40 pages from the end of Cold Copper Tears and a few pages
back I recall Garrett and Maya getting dressed up in disguise. He says
something about not liking hats. I guess the cover artist(s) for the
books didn't read that part, eh?
Troy
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From: "Joseph McGrath" <jomcgrath@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Garrett Files
Date: 21 May 2001 17:03:13 -0000
Yeah... I said something before about the covers for Garrett being totally
lame. Hidebrandt makes everybody so rosy cheeked and wholesome that it makes
me recoil. It's so anti-Garrett like in style that somebody else must have
been calling the shots when they gave them the contract.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 6:43 AM
> I'm about 40 pages from the end of Cold Copper Tears and a few pages
> back I recall Garrett and Maya getting dressed up in disguise. He says
> something about not liking hats. I guess the cover artist(s) for the
> books didn't read that part, eh?
>
> Troy
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
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> visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
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From: "Michele Riccio" <mr1@rcosta.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Garrett Files
Date: 22 May 2001 10:50:53 -0400
My favorite inconsistency is the cover of the first Garett book -
"Sweet Silver Blues" - with Denny's family (looking quite dwarfish)
holding machine guns of some sort.
Michele
On 21 May 2001, at 17:03, Joseph McGrath wrote
Copies to: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
Date sent: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:03:13 -0000
Send reply to: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
> Yeah... I said something before about the covers for Garrett being
> totally lame. Hidebrandt makes everybody so rosy cheeked and wholesome
> that it makes me recoil. It's so anti-Garrett like in style that
> somebody else must have been calling the shots when they gave them the
> contract. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Troy Lefman
> <tslefman@ctcis.net> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com> Sent:
> Friday, May 18, 2001 6:43 AM Subject: (glencook-fans) The Garrett
> Files
>
>
> > I'm about 40 pages from the end of Cold Copper Tears and a few pages
> > back I recall Garrett and Maya getting dressed up in disguise. He
> > says something about not liking hats. I guess the cover artist(s)
> > for the books didn't read that part, eh?
> >
> > Troy
> >
> >
> >
> > ====================================================================
> > ===
> > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
> ======================================================================
> =
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From: "niolog" <szurp@box43.gnet.pl>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Garrett Files
Date: 22 May 2001 17:23:02 +0200
Yes ,, it's my favorite cover too.. I think the machine gun is german (
Shmaiser if remember).
szurp
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 4:50 PM
>
> My favorite inconsistency is the cover of the first Garett book -
> "Sweet Silver Blues" - with Denny's family (looking quite dwarfish)
> holding machine guns of some sort.
>
> Michele
>
> On 21 May 2001, at 17:03, Joseph McGrath wrote
>
> From: "Joseph McGrath" <jomcgrath@mediaone.net>
> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
> Copies to: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Garrett Files
> Date sent: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:03:13 -0000
> Send reply to: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
>
> > Yeah... I said something before about the covers for Garrett being
> > totally lame. Hidebrandt makes everybody so rosy cheeked and wholesome
> > that it makes me recoil. It's so anti-Garrett like in style that
> > somebody else must have been calling the shots when they gave them the
> > contract. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Troy Lefman
> > <tslefman@ctcis.net> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com> Sent:
> > Friday, May 18, 2001 6:43 AM Subject: (glencook-fans) The Garrett
> > Files
> >
> >
> > > I'm about 40 pages from the end of Cold Copper Tears and a few pages
> > > back I recall Garrett and Maya getting dressed up in disguise. He
> > > says something about not liking hats. I guess the cover artist(s)
> > > for the books didn't read that part, eh?
> > >
> > > Troy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ====================================================================
> > > ===
> > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > > visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
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From: David George <d.s.george@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) The Garrett Files
Date: 22 May 2001 18:49:13 -0500
Nah, it looks a little more like an Uzi (Israeli). The
magazine is in the grip. The Schmeisser had its magazine
forward of, and separate from, the grip. When I say a
little more like an Uzi I mean only a little. It's a
made-up gun.
This has to be my least favorite Glen Cook cover. It looks
like a lame attempt to lure in the traditional (at least at
the time) US fantasy market readers--they would have been
putting yet another Xanth crime on the best sellers list at
about this time. There are no guns, the Tates are not
dwarves or gnomes, and these guys on the cover have big
pointy elf ears that could get them airborne in a stiff
wind. Just proves the proverb.
I wonder: do romance novel readers complain about the
covers on their books? "That antebellum Southern Mansion
looks nothing like the one described in the book. And they
drew her breasts too large. And the man's hair is too
long, etc." For the most part, science fiction and fantasy
book covers, to the extent they attempt to actually depict
events in the book, fail miserably. The closest thing I've
seen to getting close to right are the covers of the last
couple of David Weber's Honor Harrington books, where the
ships shown look like the ships described. Prior covers
had ships that looked nothing like those described (of
course) and they still tend to depict scenes that don't
really happen, but which look cool to a graphic artist.
Ahhhh, everyone's a critic. And I buy the books anyway, so
what does it matter?
DG
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:23 AM
Yes ,, it's my favorite cover too.. I think the machine gun
is german (
Shmaiser if remember).
szurp
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 4:50 PM
>
> My favorite inconsistency is the cover of the first
Garett book -
> "Sweet Silver Blues" - with Denny's family (looking quite
dwarfish)
> holding machine guns of some sort.
>
> Michele
>
> On 21 May 2001, at 17:03, Joseph McGrath wrote
>
> From: "Joseph McGrath" <jomcgrath@mediaone.net>
> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
> Copies to: <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Garrett Files
> Date sent: Mon, 21 May 2001 17:03:13 -0000
> Send reply to: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
>
> > Yeah... I said something before about the covers for
Garrett being
> > totally lame. Hidebrandt makes everybody so rosy
cheeked and wholesome
> > that it makes me recoil. It's so anti-Garrett like in
style that
> > somebody else must have been calling the shots when
they gave them the
> > contract. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Troy
Lefman
> > <tslefman@ctcis.net> To: <glencook-fans@lists.xmissi
on.com> Sent:
> > Friday, May 18, 2001 6:43 AM Subject: (glencook-fans)
The Garrett
> > Files
> >
> >
> > > I'm about 40 pages from the end of Cold Copper Tears
and a few pages
> > > back I recall Garrett and Maya getting dressed up in
disguise. He
> > > says something about not liking hats. I guess the
cover artist(s)
> > > for the books didn't read that part, eh?
> > >
> > > Troy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
========================================================
============
> > > ===
> > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of
this list,
> > > visit
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
> >
> >
========================================================
==============
> > =
> > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of
this list,
> > visit
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
>
>
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> visit
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>
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> Chcialbys zarobic lub "dorobic" naprawde dobre pieniadze?
> Otrzymasz do 300zl za kazda firme ktora wprowadzisz do
Centrum e-biznesu
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prosty formularz
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Partnerem Getin
>
>
--
Chcialbys zarobic lub "dorobic" naprawde dobre pieniadze?
Otrzymasz do 300zl za kazda firme ktora wprowadzisz do
Centrum e-biznesu
Poszukaj wsrod znajomych, znajdz firme i wypelnij z nia
prosty formularz
Aby rozpoczac wejdz do http://praca.getin.pl i zostan
Partnerem Getin
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From: Fade Dreamer <croccifixio_caduto@yahoo.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) The Future of The Black Company
Date: 26 May 2001 12:02:01 -0700 (PDT)
I am new to this list so please bear with me. I have
followed the list for a long time but never posted and
I wanted to say something about the future of The
Company.
The end of Soldiers Live I thought was a very fitting
end to the story of Croaker and Lady. As I saw posted
here, Glen may be persuaded to write more of the
company but not in current timeframe or not with the
same "version" of the company. This I think is a good
thing.
What I have seen here are alot of people that want the
domination or similar stories and debates for and
against it. I personally am on the "do not" side of
the debate. I am thinking in more "grand" sceme of
things I guess.
What i would think would be interesting is the
beginning of the Company and other companies from
Khatovar. If there is one thing that Glen does
exceptionally well, its develope characters and blur
the lines of good and evil. He has shown that you can
love or hate the good and evil, feel sorry for both,
cheer for both. he has also show that history is a
matter of perspective. The rogues and renegades and
murderers of the Company (they all have their history)
are also some of the most heroic people. This could be
the same for the company when it started. There are
documents talking about the evil of the company when
it first came forth but are those documents accurate?
and what turned them into an honorable company over
time?
Anyways, learning the origins of the company, seeing
the glittering plain for the first time, the "religon"
of the company, and not only the motivations of the
company itself but the individuals who were in the
company when they first left their homes never to
return (or not) would make a fine story. it also could
give more insight to the current company without
stepping into it and perpetuate what I consider the
best ending to a series I have ever read.
also, glen has countless doors open to him with the
worlds of the glittering plain. different cultures and
magic, people and places that The Black Company may
have visited somewhere in time, or perhaps another
Free Company. It is my sincere hope that Glen leaves
Lady and Croaker to their destinies for now and when
we read the annals in our minds they will live again.
just my 2 cents. hope I did not offend anyone.
Cross
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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From: "Adam R Stovicek" <stovicek@123connected.com>
Subject: (glencook-fans) The Short Fiction
Date: 26 May 2001 23:53:54 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="Windows-1252"
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I have a copy of Cook's current bibliography. I was a bit surprised at =
the amount of short fiction that he has published in addition to the =
novels. I am proud to say that I am only 3 novels away from having all =
of them, but I fall very short on the short fiction. I know most of the =
stories can be found in SciFi/Fantasy mags but there's no reference to =
which ones. Does anyone have a list of what's found where?
Thanks
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C0E63F.1F589100
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charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DSystem color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I have a copy =
of Cook's=20
current bibliography. I was a bit surprised at the amount of short =
fiction that=20
he has published in addition to the novels. I am proud to say that I am =
only 3=20
novels away from having all of them, but I fall very short on the short =
fiction.=20
I know most of the stories can be found in SciFi/Fantasy mags but =
there's no=20
reference to which ones. Does anyone have a list of what's found=20
where?</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DSystem color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DSystem color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C0E63F.1F589100--
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From: Eric Herrmann <shpshftr@xmission.com>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Short Fiction
Date: 27 May 2001 00:15:16 -0600
on 5/26/01 9:53 PM, Adam R Stovicek at stovicek@123connected.com wrote:
> I have a copy of Cook's current bibliography. I was a bit surprised at the
> amount of short fiction that he has published in addition to the novels. I am
> proud to say that I am only 3 novels away from having all of them, but I fall
> very short on the short fiction. I know most of the stories can be found in
> SciFi/Fantasy mags but there's no reference to which ones. Does anyone have a
> list of what's found where?
I don't know what "current" bibliography you have, but the current
bibliography can be found at:
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GCBiblio.txt >.
This Glen Cook Bibliography is an exclusive for mailing list subscribers.
It was updated just today with 6 books from Russia and Poland. (Good news
for Garrett fans in Poland.)
--
Eric Herrmann
<shpshftr@xmission.com>
<owner-glencook-fans@xmission.com>
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From: "Sebastian Binkowski" <twiwlek@dino.open.net.pl>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Future of The Black Company
Date: 27 May 2001 21:58:49 +0200
> I am new to this list so please bear with me.
So do I :)
>I have
<...>
> company but not in current timeframe or not with the
> same "version" of the company. This I think is a good
> thing.
I think rather in the same timeframe. There are two new annalist so there
should be no problem :) There are still some enemies. I agree it will be not
the same company, but It was unavoidable.
<...>
> What i would think would be interesting is the
> beginning of the Company and other companies from
> Khatovar.
Well, maybe not. You know that on the beginning of the company they had
difftent ideology and weren't the same company as company we know. They were
Kina's servants and nothing more.
<...>
> the same for the company when it started. There are
> documents talking about the evil of the company when
> it first came forth but are those documents accurate?
Maybe becuse they served Kina?? :)
> and what turned them into an honorable company over
> time?
They lost first annals, old commanders died, new were diffrent. They forgot
about old ideology becuse they were to far from home.
> Anyways, learning the origins of the company, seeing
<...>
> Lady and Croaker to their destinies for now and when
> we read the annals in our minds they will live again.
But there is always this feeling: I want more, more and more :D
> Cross
Pozdrawiam
Lightning Wing Commander
2nd Lt. Cmdr Twiwlek
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