ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/glencook-fans/archive/glencook-fans.200101

Internet Message Format | 2001-01-29 | 164KB

From: Eric Herrmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Monthly Mailing List Update
Date: 01 Jan 2001 16:45:42 -0700

The December mail archive has been posted.

This mailing list is sponsored by The Glen Cook Fan Page at:
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/ >.

The mailing list archives and instructions of how to subscribe or
unsubscribe can be found at:
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html >.

The mailing list FAQ can be found at:
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/Mail/glencook-fans-FAQ.txt >.

A mailing list exclusive Glen Cook Bibliography can be found at:
<http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GCBiblio.txt >.

In Glen Cook news:
    "The White Rose" is now available in the Czech Repbulic from Brokilon.
    "Water Sleeps" is now available in Poland from REBIS.
    "Cold Copper Tears" and "Old Tin Sorrows" are now available in Poland
from MAG.
    "Faded Steel Heat" coming soon in Germany from Goldmann Verlag.
    "Black Company", "Shadows Linger", and "White Rose" now available in
America with new covers. (Actually, not all that new.)

    The bibliography is finally complete with all known editions in all
countries. (Thank you, Glen.) That doesn't mean that I have complete
information or cover scans for each. So if you can fill in any details let
me know.

--
Eric Herrmann
<[e-mail]>
<[e-mail]>


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From: Stacey Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Everquest Players?
Date: 06 Jan 2001 03:40:03 -0600

Steve,

I used to (um, 5-7 years ago) spend endless hours in some MUSHes, so I
was intrigued by your mention of Everquest, including the BC guilds.
But I didn't take the time to check it out till just now.

And what do I find?  A game that costs $30 to join!  Run by Sony, no
less (*shudder*).

I am aghast.  Surely the only games worth playing are those in which the
sole source of the fun is player-to-player interaction?  For which there
is no charge but the time one expends?

*slowly shakes head*

What is this world coming to??

Steve
Boudicca in Pandemonium I
Slothar in Dune I
Gurney in Dune II

PS
MUSH = Multi-User Shared Hallucination = entirely text-based real-time
gaming system (based on Telnet connections), with lots of opportunity
for coding up interactive sub-systems in PERL; first one was Pern, a
dozen years ago

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From: "Joshua Peery" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Everquest Players?
Date: 06 Jan 2001 10:24:40 -0500

I am a former player of Everquest, and it is amazing that I am defending
it(me being one of its harsher critics since its release) BUT ... The game
truley was revolutionary, but a BIG time sink, (which is why I quit)  Those
old text dungeons are rather humorous in my opinion(yes, I played them too)
But EQ gave a really rich graphical world in which a person could immerse in
EVEN without interacting with any other "live" characters.  As far as the
cost,  jeez there must be some cheap people on this list :-)  the cost is
FAR less than going to the movies ONCE and at least 10$ gets you a months
"rental" on the server, and the thirty dollars for the software is average
for buying a game today. So unless you play it dont be so harse to judge and
BTW Sony doesnt run anything in Everquest only the accounting(Cash handling)
of the members, the world is run by Verant Interactive who actually hires
former players sometimes to become Game Masters and content providers. Just
a little FYI

~Joshua

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 4:40 AM


> Steve,
>
> I used to (um, 5-7 years ago) spend endless hours in some MUSHes, so I
> was intrigued by your mention of Everquest, including the BC guilds.
> But I didn't take the time to check it out till just now.
>
> And what do I find?  A game that costs $30 to join!  Run by Sony, no
> less (*shudder*).
>
> I am aghast.  Surely the only games worth playing are those in which the
> sole source of the fun is player-to-player interaction?  For which there
> is no charge but the time one expends?
>
> *slowly shakes head*
>
> What is this world coming to??


.html>.


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From: Stacey Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Everquest Players?
Date: 06 Jan 2001 11:38:24 -0600

Joshua,

"Those old text dungeons are rather humorous in my opinion(yes, I played
them too)"

I wasn't speaking of MUDs (multi-user dungeons--), but of MUSHes, which
are quite different:  Interaction is *all* there is, and that's the
entire point of it.  (World-building--described in text and coded for
user-interaction--is a highly valued art in such games; I'm quite proud
of some of the designs I did.)

It's not the cost per se that sets me off, but the concept of having a
graphics-inspired game, as opposed to an interaction-inspired game, and
of having anyone involved in it who is motivated by something other than
the sheer pleasure of a well-constructed world.  The finagling of
intricate plot-lines and conspiracies, the design of interesting
characters with their individualistic goals, the open  co-opting or
subtle corruption of other characters--well, it makes one feel like an
author :)

Steve

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From: Eric Herrmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Everquest Players?
Date: 06 Jan 2001 18:09:14 -0700


> "Those old text dungeons are rather humorous in my opinion(yes, I played
> them too)"
>
> I wasn't speaking of MUDs (multi-user dungeons--), but of MUSHes, which
> are quite different:  Interaction is *all* there is, and that's the
> entire point of it.  (World-building--described in text and coded for
> user-interaction--is a highly valued art in such games; I'm quite proud
> of some of the designs I did.)
>
> It's not the cost per se that sets me off, but the concept of having a
> graphics-inspired game, as opposed to an interaction-inspired game, and
> of having anyone involved in it who is motivated by something other than
> the sheer pleasure of a well-constructed world.  The finagling of
> intricate plot-lines and conspiracies, the design of interesting
> characters with their individualistic goals, the open  co-opting or
> subtle corruption of other characters--well, it makes one feel like an
> author :)

As much as I love the nostalgia and to see this mailing list get used for
something, this discussion could and should be taken elsewhere.

Thanks,

--
Eric Herrmann
<[e-mail]>
<[e-mail]>


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From: "Amy Weathers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) So ... book of the month?
Date: 26 Dec 2001 06:16:29 -0700


So did we ever decide on a book of the month?  (not that I have any darn
time to read one)


- Raist





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From: "Alison and Tim Stalley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) So ... book of the month?
Date: 06 Jan 2001 22:37:11 -0600

I guess if I had a choice I would go with the starfisher series.  Its my
favorite next to the BC.  Plus it has three books so the next choices are
covered.

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Amy Weathers
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 7:16 AM



So did we ever decide on a book of the month?  (not that I have any darn
time to read one)


- Raist





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From: "Wright Frazier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Everquest Players?
Date: 08 Jan 2001 09:03:56 -0500

Comparing EQ to a mush is like comparing an abbacus to Deep Blue.  Until
you've played it, you just cannot grasp the differences.  Further a game
that is able to keep people's attention for years, instead of going for the
common 50 to 60 hours of game play, if you are lucky.  Thats a good deal.
Considering the time I've put into the game, and the enjoyment I've gotten
out, the $10/mo is well worth it.

Wright



----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 4:40 AM


> Steve,
>
> I used to (um, 5-7 years ago) spend endless hours in some MUSHes, so I
> was intrigued by your mention of Everquest, including the BC guilds.
> But I didn't take the time to check it out till just now.
>
> And what do I find?  A game that costs $30 to join!  Run by Sony, no
> less (*shudder*).
>
> I am aghast.  Surely the only games worth playing are those in which the
> sole source of the fun is player-to-player interaction?  For which there
> is no charge but the time one expends?
>
> *slowly shakes head*
>
> What is this world coming to??
>
> Steve
> Boudicca in Pandemonium I
> Slothar in Dune I
> Gurney in Dune II
>
> PS
> MUSH = Multi-User Shared Hallucination = entirely text-based real-time
> gaming system (based on Telnet connections), with lots of opportunity
> for coding up interactive sub-systems in PERL; first one was Pern, a
> dozen years ago
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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From: Eric Herrmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) 2 new articles
Date: 08 Jan 2001 21:27:38 -700


I posted 2 newspaper articles written about Glen from the early 1980s
onto the website today. They are in the biography section. You may
need to refresh your browser window in order to see them listed in the
Biography menu on the right hand side.

Enjoy!

--
Eric Herrmann
<[e-mail]>

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From: "Don" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) The awful book
Date: 09 Jan 2001 14:32:31 -0600

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Does anybody know what the awful book Cook read to make him think he =
could do better? Just curious. Shit, he probably doesn't remember what =
it was.
So how about the first Garrett novel as book of the month. Not that book =
of the month is alive anymore, but hey. What the hell.

Don=20
"In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC



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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anybody know what the awful book =
Cook read to=20
make him think he could do better? Just curious. Shit, he probably =
doesn't=20
remember what it was.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So how about the first Garrett novel as =
book of the=20
month. Not that book of the month is alive anymore, but hey. What the=20
hell.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don <BR>"In time, what's deserved =
always gets=20
served."- COC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Joseph McGrath" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Re: sweet silver
Date: 10 Jan 2001 08:41:45 -0000

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Sure!
It's always a pleasure rereading sweet silver blues.
Joseph
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Don=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 8:32 PM
  Subject: (glencook-fans) The awful book


  Does anybody know what the awful book Cook read to make him think he =
could do better? Just curious. Shit, he probably doesn't remember what =
it was.
  So how about the first Garrett novel as book of the month. Not that =
book of the month is alive anymore, but hey. What the hell.

  Don=20
  "In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC

  =20

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sure!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's always a pleasure rereading sweet =
silver=20
blues.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joseph</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" title=[e-mail]>Don</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  =
title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 09, 2001 =
8:32=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> (glencook-fans) The =
awful=20
  book</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anybody know what the awful book =
Cook read=20
  to make him think he could do better? Just curious. Shit, he probably =
doesn't=20
  remember what it was.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So how about the first Garrett novel =
as book of=20
  the month. Not that book of the month is alive anymore, but hey. What =
the=20
  hell.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don <BR>"In time, what's deserved =
always gets=20
  served."- COC</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Igor Filippov <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The awful book
Date: 10 Jan 2001 14:19:51 -0500 (EST)

About Garrett's books and computer games - I just played "Thief-2"
the main character there is Garrett (!) and personality-wise he's got
a very strong resemblance to Cook's Garrett... Coincedence ?

Igor



On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Don wrote:

> Does anybody know what the awful book Cook read to make him think he could do better? Just curious. Shit, he probably doesn't remember what it was.
> So how about the first Garrett novel as book of the month. Not that book of the month is alive anymore, but hey. What the hell.
>
> Don
> "In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC
>
>
>


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From:    "Marcin Welnicki" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 20 Jan 2001 23:02:06 +0100

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im sure this list is dead this time ;)



--=20
=20
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial CE" size=3D2>im sure this list is dead this =
time=20
;)</FONT></DIV>=20
</BODY></HTML>

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From: "Tim McDowell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 20 Jan 2001 14:36:32 -0800

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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Marcin Welnicki=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 2:02 PM
  Subject: (glencook-fans) dead


  im sure this list is dead this time ;)

      Dead is a relative term. Just express an opinion on some part of a =
Black Company story and see what happens.

      As an example:
      In 'Soldiers Live' I found [to me atleast] an extremely hilarious =
scene. It was after the Company had come back through the Gate, with all =
of Tobo's shadow friends.=20
      'Catcher was in her stump disguise looking for BooBoo and Singh. =
And up comes one of the big shadow dogs. It lifts it's leg and proceeds =
to give 'Catcher a shower. Boy did she get mad. Of course it also kept =
her from finding the two fugitives.
      I was laughing so hard at that point, I nearly dropped the book.
          Tim


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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>Marcin=20
  Welnicki</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 20, =
2001 2:02=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> (glencook-fans) =
dead</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial CE" size=3D2>im sure this list is dead this =
time=20
  ;)</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>    Dead is a relative term. Just =
express an=20
  opinion on some part of a Black Company story and see what=20
  happens.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>    As an example:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>    In 'Soldiers Live' I found [to =
me=20
  atleast] an extremely hilarious scene. It was after the Company had =
come back=20
  through the Gate, with all of Tobo's shadow friends. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>    'Catcher was in her stump =
disguise=20
  looking for BooBoo and Singh. And up comes one of the big shadow dogs. =
It=20
  lifts it's leg and proceeds to give 'Catcher a shower. Boy did she get =
mad. Of=20
  course it also kept her from finding the two fugitives.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>    I was laughing so hard at that =
point, I=20
  nearly dropped the book.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>        =
Tim</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Eric Herrmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 20 Jan 2001 18:03:49 -0700

on 1/20/01 3:02 PM, Marcin Welnicki   at [e-mail] wrote:

> im sure this list is dead this time ;)

No, it goes to sleep occasionally.

There are quite a few international subscribers on this list like yourself.
Especially those in Poland and Russia who are just now reading Cook for the
first time.

I'd love to hear the non-American perspective of Cook's books.

--
Eric Herrmann
<[e-mail]>
<[e-mail]>


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From: Igor Filippov <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 20 Jan 2001 20:09:10 -0500 (EST)


Cook's books in Russia were first published in 1993-1995, so
we were reading BC for quite some time now.

Igor

On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, Eric Herrmann wrote:

> on 1/20/01 3:02 PM, Marcin Welnicki   at [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > im sure this list is dead this time ;)
>
> No, it goes to sleep occasionally.
>
> There are quite a few international subscribers on this list like yourself.
> Especially those in Poland and Russia who are just now reading Cook for the
> first time.
>
> I'd love to hear the non-American perspective of Cook's books.
>
> --
> Eric Herrmann
> <[e-mail]>
> <[e-mail]>
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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From: "Michele" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 20 Jan 2001 20:56:17 -0500

I just assumed everyone was busy reading Sweet Silver Blues - or
did that get voted down as Book of the Month?

Michele



On 20 Jan 2001, at 23:02, Marcin Welnicki wrote:

>
> im sure this list is dead this time ;)
>
================
> =
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


Michele
[e-mail]

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From: Stacey Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 21 Jan 2001 00:25:56 -0600

Hi,

I'm reading a Garrett book for the first time--the only one they had in
the bookstore, the lastest (Faded something or other).  It seems *very*
busy (I'm halfway through it); is that because I'm coming into the
middle of the series, or are they all like that?

Steve

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From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 21 Jan 2001 02:36:11 -0500 (EST)

>
>I'm reading a Garrett book for the first time--the only one they had in
>the bookstore, the lastest (Faded something or other).  It seems *very*
>busy (I'm halfway through it); is that because I'm coming into the
>middle of the series, or are they all like that?
>

    They are all a little like that but I think the later ones
suffer for it.  I'd recommend reading Sweet Silver Blues where the
characters are introduced and things aren't quite so crazy.  That's
also my favorite of the Garrett series.

                Steve


--
Steve Chew - [e-mail] - http://www.interzone.com
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
 safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
        - Ben Franklin,  c. 1784

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From:    "Marcin Welnicki" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 21 Jan 2001 11:55:47 +0100


> > Especially those in Poland and Russia who are just now reading Cook for
the
> first time.

I read it 2 times( in English and in Polish) ;P



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From:    "Marcin Welnicki" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 21 Jan 2001 11:57:56 +0100



> > >
>
> They are all a little like that but I think the later ones
> suffer for it.  I'd recommend reading Sweet Silver Blues where the
> characters are introduced and things aren't quite so crazy.  That's
> also my favorite of the Garrett series.
>
> Steve

   For me the best Garrett novel is Cold Copper Tears

Martin




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From: "S. Townsend" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 21 Jan 2001 08:00:43 -0600

I think I like Dead Brass Shadows best.  It's a bit of a downer, but it's
got the tightest writing of any of them.

Marcin Welnicki wrote:

> > > >
> >
> > They are all a little like that but I think the later ones
> > suffer for it.  I'd recommend reading Sweet Silver Blues where the
> > characters are introduced and things aren't quite so crazy.  That's
> > also my favorite of the Garrett series.
> >
> > Steve
>
>    For me the best Garrett novel is Cold Copper Tears
>
> Martin
>
> --
>
>
>
> =======================================================================
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From: Eric Herrmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) <no subject>
Date: 21 Jan 2001 07:47:49 -0700

>From [e-mail] Sat Jan 20 15:03:32 2001
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And some people thought that Goblin was dead too...

(...hopefully the sarcasm and lack of context there will prevent it from
becoming an unannounced spoiler...)

I finished my Glen Cook collection about six months ago; the only book I'm
missing is "Sung in Blood" and from what everyone has said it is impossible
to find and not really worth reading. Since then I've continued haunting
used book stores (I'll bet that Glen Cook fans tend to do that a lot) as
much out of habit as anything. I have a friend who introduced me to the
Black Company many years ago, and I'm hoping to piece together a few other
series to present to him as gifts, as a way of saying thanks.

Has anyone other than me noticed that the middle books of Glen Cook
trilogies are always the hardest to find?

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0832E.205FAFD0
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset="iso-8859-2"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">


<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001>And
some people thought that Goblin was dead too...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001>(...hopefully the sarcasm and lack of context there
will prevent it from becoming an unannounced spoiler...)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001>I
finished my Glen Cook collection about six months ago; the only book I'm
missing
is "Sung in Blood" and from what everyone has said it is impossible to find
and
not really worth reading. Since then I've continued haunting used book
stores
(I'll bet that Glen Cook fans tend to do that a lot) as much out of habit as
anything. I have a friend who introduced me to the Black Company many years
ago,
and I'm hoping to piece together a few other series to present to him as
gifts,
as a way of saying thanks.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001>Has
anyone other than me noticed that the middle books of Glen Cook trilogies
are
always the hardest to find?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0832E.205FAFD0--




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From: Matthew Roche <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Not Dead!
Date: 20 Jan 2001 15:12:50 -0700

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0832E.205FAFD0
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="iso-8859-2"

And some people thought that Goblin was dead too...

(...hopefully the sarcasm and lack of context there will prevent it from
becoming an unannounced spoiler...)

I finished my Glen Cook collection about six months ago; the only book I'm
missing is "Sung in Blood" and from what everyone has said it is impossible
to find and not really worth reading. Since then I've continued haunting
used book stores (I'll bet that Glen Cook fans tend to do that a lot) as
much out of habit as anything. I have a friend who introduced me to the
Black Company many years ago, and I'm hoping to piece together a few other
series to present to him as gifts, as a way of saying thanks.

Has anyone other than me noticed that the middle books of Glen Cook
trilogies are always the hardest to find?

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0832E.205FAFD0
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset="iso-8859-2"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">


<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001>And
some people thought that Goblin was dead too...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001>(...hopefully the sarcasm and lack of context there
will prevent it from becoming an unannounced spoiler...)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001>I
finished my Glen Cook collection about six months ago; the only book I'm
missing
is "Sung in Blood" and from what everyone has said it is impossible to find
and
not really worth reading. Since then I've continued haunting used book
stores
(I'll bet that Glen Cook fans tend to do that a lot) as much out of habit as
anything. I have a friend who introduced me to the Black Company many years
ago,
and I'm hoping to piece together a few other series to present to him as
gifts,
as a way of saying thanks.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#800080 size=2><SPAN
class=989020822-20012001>Has
anyone other than me noticed that the middle books of Glen Cook trilogies
are
always the hardest to find?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0832E.205FAFD0--




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From: "Don" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 21 Jan 2001 11:11:26 -0600

I'm reading it

Don
"In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 7:56 PM


> I just assumed everyone was busy reading Sweet Silver Blues - or
> did that get voted down as Book of the Month?
>
> Michele
>
>
>
> On 20 Jan 2001, at 23:02, Marcin Welnicki wrote:
>
> >
> > im sure this list is dead this time ;)
> >
> ================
> > =
> >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
> Michele
> [e-mail]
>
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From: szurp <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) dead
Date: 21 Jan 2001 20:14:17 +0100

Cook's books in Poland were first published in 1993 .. in Alfa edition. The first
was Sweet silver Blues ( Slodki srebrny blues ) with Tim Hildebrand's picture on
the cover.
Now is second edition ...
Szurp




--
Prezentacja oferty i sprzedaz produktow Twojej firmy w Centrum e-biznesu
         teraz za niecala zlotowke dziennie!
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From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 21 Jan 2001 18:50:53 -0400

Stacey Harris wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm reading a Garrett book for the first time--the only one they had in
> the bookstore, the lastest (Faded something or other).  It seems *very*
> busy (I'm halfway through it); is that because I'm coming into the
> middle of the series, or are they all like that?
>

Just my opinion, by the books keep getting busier.  The first one is
actually straight forward, the next - a bit more complicated because it
contained elements from the first one, and so on.

The busiest part?  Garrett's girls friends.  He seems to pick up a new
one in each book while most of the old ones show up once and a while.

The next busiest part?  The mob scene.  It is constantly changing, but
all the changes are logical ones that build on the old books.

The cases are almost straight forward in comparison.

Richard

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From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) garrett
Date: 21 Jan 2001 17:50:33 -0600

A couple of observations about the Garretr books in general:

1. I have often felt that one of the tests of a good fantasy book or series
is whether the reader feels at home in the environment. I think that I know
TunFaire very well. I know what parts to avoid, where to go for a good
vegetarian dinner, where to hire a coach or wagon, the names of its more
important citizens, &c.
The city is a character of its own, and every book we learn a little more
about it. Same goes for Karenta--the reader gets to know a bit about the
country's geography, history, and politics.
Of course, this attention to detail is one of the reasons (i would guess)
that we read  and enjoy Glen Cook's books so much.

2. the of girlfriends: Mr Cook tends to introduce new characters to his
various series with careless abandon. then he kills them off, often randomly
(think of all those generals in the dread empire series who got whacked by
arrows fired by nobodies). the garrett books are the only books that haven't
had a major character bloodbath yet. I would hate to see any of the main
characters die, but, I agree, some doors need to be closed. I can recall
only two 'major' characters dying in the series (won't mention them for
those yet to discover the series).

3. I think that the ever-evolving underworld power struggles, as well as the
venageti-karentine war, are truly awesome plot devices, as they make the
world come alive (see 1 above). if everything remained static, we'd have a
TV show or soemthing. But it does make it difficult to read the series out
of order. I have a friend who finally got around to reading Glen Cook after
hearing me praise the man forever. he started with "red iron Nights" because
nothing else was available. he enjoyed it very much but he did have trouble
with soome of the stories continued from previous volumes. I think most of
Cook's  book series are best read in order, but also acknowledge that
they're (strangely) hard to find nowadays.



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From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) favorite garrett
Date: 21 Jan 2001 18:07:04 -0600


In response to earlier postings about people's  favorite Garrett books:

My vote is:
anything but Petty Pewter Gods or Deadly Quicksilver Lies. Petty Pewter Gods
was  real disappontment. Deadly Quicksolver Lies just didn't sing. But i
enjoy rereading all of the others and am looking forward to discussing Sweet
Silver Blues with everyone.

has anybody ever commented upon the simialrity of plots of Cold Copper Tears
and Dread brass Shadows?


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From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) garrett
Date: 21 Jan 2001 20:24:38 -0400

"Horky, Roger" wrote:
>
> A couple of observations about the Garretr books in general:
>
> 1. I have often felt that one of the tests of a good fantasy book or series
> is whether the reader feels at home in the environment. I think that I know
> TunFaire very well. I know what parts to avoid, where to go for a good
> vegetarian dinner, where to hire a coach or wagon, the names of its more
> important citizens, &c.
> The city is a character of its own, and every book we learn a little more
> about it. Same goes for Karenta--the reader gets to know a bit about the
> country's geography, history, and politics.
> Of course, this attention to detail is one of the reasons (i would guess)
> that we read  and enjoy Glen Cook's books so much.
>

I'd have to agree here - but since the same areas aren't explained in
every book it can make it hard to jump in mid series.

> 2. the of girlfriends: Mr Cook tends to introduce new characters to his
> various series with careless abandon. then he kills them off, often randomly
> (think of all those generals in the dread empire series who got whacked by
> arrows fired by nobodies).

This is one of the things that makes Cook special.  Look at Mercy -
great character introduced in the fist chapter of the first Black
Company book.  Most writter don't put that kind detail into any but
their main characters.  What happens?  Mercy doesn't make it to the
Cynic's death.

There are countless characters that go that way - good, detained if not
developed, characters that die meaningless deaths.  Most authors kill
off detailed characters only is significant ways - but not Cook.  It
adds spice to the plot to know that random, meaningless deaths can
happen.  Compare that to most fantasy, where you know that X will
probably live until the last chapter of the book.

> the garrett books are the only books that haven't
> had a major character bloodbath yet.

The tone of the Garrett books are different from the tone of most of
Cook's work.  It's not dark, not gritty.  In Garrett we have a Hero -
someone with a dented heart of gold - something missing from most of his
books.

A blood bath wouldn't fit the tone of the books.

> I would hate to see any of the main
> characters die, but, I agree, some doors need to be closed. I can recall
> only two 'major' characters dying in the series (won't mention them for
> those yet to discover the series).
>

Garrett's problems is that there are too many loose ends - with his love
interests at the top of the list.  Yet, without a bloodbath, I can't see
how Cook can tie them up.  Maybe a mass marrage ceremony?

Cook could reduce the number of girls Garrett romances, but I can't see
how he could do it and Garrett's character not suffering.

> 3. I think that the ever-evolving underworld power struggles, as well as the
> venageti-karentine war, are truly awesome plot devices, as they make the
> world come alive (see 1 above). if everything remained static, we'd have a
> TV show or soemthing. But it does make it difficult to read the series out
> of order.

I have to agree.  Organizaed Crime should stay still, but like the
continuing social changes in TunFaire you need to follow the series to
understand it.

> I have a friend who finally got around to reading Glen Cook after
> hearing me praise the man forever. he started with "red iron Nights" because
> nothing else was available. he enjoyed it very much but he did have trouble
> with soome of the stories continued from previous volumes. I think most of
> Cook's  book series are best read in order, but also acknowledge that
> they're (strangely) hard to find nowadays.
>

I wish it wasn't strange.  Cook is not a best selling author.  His books
are not printed in big runs.  I'd guess that there's a formula
publishers use to set their print runs (number first book in series sold
* some factor) and the later books are published in lower numbers.

Best selling authors don't run into this.

Richard

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From: Stacey Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 01:21:39 -0600

Richard,

"The cases are almost straight forward in comparison.'

Aaack!  I'm halfway through, and I have only a glimmer of what the case
may be about!  (I think all of two days have elapsed, and he's already
encountered 4 former, current, or maybe girlfriends, been knocked out,
and discovered virtually a new species of "humanoid" in his little
town--not to mention been invited by the heads of nearly every political
faction to act as subversive agent in one of the other factions.)

And just *what* is the geopolitical landscape?  Is it small towns allied
together or fighting, German-style principalities at one another's
throats, nations against nations, or what?

Steve

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From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 13:52:46 -0400

Stacey Harris wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> "The cases are almost straight forward in comparison.'
>
> Aaack!  I'm halfway through, and I have only a glimmer of what the case
> may be about!  (I think all of two days have elapsed, and he's already
> encountered 4 former, current, or maybe girlfriends, been knocked out,
> and discovered virtually a new species of "humanoid" in his little
> town--not to mention been invited by the heads of nearly every political
> faction to act as subversive agent in one of the other factions.)
>

That's because of the lose threads.

> And just *what* is the geopolitical landscape?  Is it small towns allied
> together or fighting, German-style principalities at one another's
> throats, nations against nations, or what?
>

I'm not sure if someone else has answered this or not, but here goes.

Background:
The non-human types settled the area, then humans moved in and took
over.

In Garrett's Grandfather's time these two great powers went to war over
a silver rich area - silver being needed to power some types of
sorcery.  Whichever state won control of the mines would have a great
advantage over the other.  Various non-human types

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From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 14:24:08 -0400

Ever been typing along and accidently hit cntr-enter (which is send on
my mail programs)?  Sorry about that.

Stacey Harris wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> "The cases are almost straight forward in comparison.'
>
> Aaack!  I'm halfway through, and I have only a glimmer of what the case
> may be about!  (I think all of two days have elapsed, and he's already
> encountered 4 former, current, or maybe girlfriends, been knocked out,
> and discovered virtually a new species of "humanoid" in his little
> town--not to mention been invited by the heads of nearly every political
> faction to act as subversive agent in one of the other factions.)
>

That's because of the lose threads.

> And just *what* is the geopolitical landscape?  Is it small towns allied
> together or fighting, German-style principalities at one another's
> throats, nations against nations, or what?
>

I'm not sure if someone else has answered this or not, but here goes.
I'll leave it to others to map his girl friends and the mod
relationship.

Note - some spoilers (mainly about how the war goes).

Background:
The non-human types settled the area, then humans moved in and took
over.

In Garrett's Grandfather's time these two great powers went to war over
a silver rich area - silver being needed to power some types of
sorcery.  Whichever state won control of the mines would have a great
advantage over the other.  Various non-human types lived there, but no
human kingdom paid any attention to them other than using then as
mercenaries.
The non-humans can't really understand why the humans have been fighting
for so long - their wars usually end with one big battle and then
everything is settled for another generation.

To fight a war you need soldiers.  To get soldiers they have a draft
system.  Every male subject (humans - but others can join the army) of
Garrett's side has to spend 5 years fighting in the war.  Most don't
come home.
Of his family (Grandfather, father, brother) Garrett is the first one to
complete his tour of duty.  He's one of a handful of people in his unit
to survive.

In one book Garrett explains to a new character (Winger) that every man
walking down the street has survived 5 years of hell in the war - which
means even though they may not look like much each and everyone of them
knows how to fight and survive.

As the war goes on the central authority loses more and more power.
Almost all it's tax money is going to support the war, the great leaders
are dying in the war - Garrett points out in one book that there is
still a royal (or imperial - I forget which) family out there, but they
are irrelivant.  A bit like the world Larence Watt-Evert developed for
his Misenchanted Sword setting.
As the war saps the human's Kingdoms the non-human races slowly rise to
prominence again because they aren't getting themselves killed off in
the war.

In the first book of the series Garrett returns to the war zone to
deliver an inherence.  Three girls (Rose, Tinney, and an old flame) are
introduced here, and at least two of them become reoccurring characters
(can't remember if the other one shows up again - I think she's
mentioned in at least one more book).  He takes with him his old friend
Morely (may have spelled that wrong) who drags along the three brothers
(triplets with different mothers) to act as mules and additional
fighters.
As the series progresses, the war changes.  Some times it's good news
for Garrett's side, sometimes it's bad news.  This often impacts on
Garrett's live as wizards go to war or come home and the city reacts to
the latest news.  Some of his cases involve things connected to the war.

Spoilers......



.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Garrett's side gets some incredable victories handed to them by a merc
General named Morning Glory who happens to be a centaur from the war
zone (who used to work for the otherside until they backstabbed him).
After victory follows victory Garrett's side is looking good - when
Morning Glory declares independance and says he's ready to take on all
sides.  Things look bad - there's talk of raising the tour of duty to 7
years and calling up the old veterans.
Then victory!  Garrett's side WINS!
Now that people's energy is no long devoted to the war (and there's a
bunch of returning soldiers wondering why these non-humans have all the
good jobs) internal politics raises its ugly head and a secret police
until starts up.  Post war stress builds.  Later a human first group
starts (with support from the soldiers) that ties to stage a coup (I
think this is in the last book).

Hopefully this helps explain the setting.

Richard

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From: Igor Filippov <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 13:54:41 -0500 (EST)

Morning Glory was a centaur ??????????? This is not how I read it....
Igor

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Richard Chilton wrote:

> Ever been typing along and accidently hit cntr-enter (which is send on
> my mail programs)?  Sorry about that.
>
> Stacey Harris wrote:
> >
> > Richard,
> >
> > "The cases are almost straight forward in comparison.'
> >
> > Aaack!  I'm halfway through, and I have only a glimmer of what the case
> > may be about!  (I think all of two days have elapsed, and he's already
> > encountered 4 former, current, or maybe girlfriends, been knocked out,
> > and discovered virtually a new species of "humanoid" in his little
> > town--not to mention been invited by the heads of nearly every political
> > faction to act as subversive agent in one of the other factions.)
> >
>
> That's because of the lose threads.
>
> > And just *what* is the geopolitical landscape?  Is it small towns allied
> > together or fighting, German-style principalities at one another's
> > throats, nations against nations, or what?
> >
>
> I'm not sure if someone else has answered this or not, but here goes.
> I'll leave it to others to map his girl friends and the mod
> relationship.
>
> Note - some spoilers (mainly about how the war goes).
>
> Background:
> The non-human types settled the area, then humans moved in and took
> over.
>
> In Garrett's Grandfather's time these two great powers went to war over
> a silver rich area - silver being needed to power some types of
> sorcery.  Whichever state won control of the mines would have a great
> advantage over the other.  Various non-human types lived there, but no
> human kingdom paid any attention to them other than using then as
> mercenaries.
> The non-humans can't really understand why the humans have been fighting
> for so long - their wars usually end with one big battle and then
> everything is settled for another generation.
>
> To fight a war you need soldiers.  To get soldiers they have a draft
> system.  Every male subject (humans - but others can join the army) of
> Garrett's side has to spend 5 years fighting in the war.  Most don't
> come home.
> Of his family (Grandfather, father, brother) Garrett is the first one to
> complete his tour of duty.  He's one of a handful of people in his unit
> to survive.
>
> In one book Garrett explains to a new character (Winger) that every man
> walking down the street has survived 5 years of hell in the war - which
> means even though they may not look like much each and everyone of them
> knows how to fight and survive.
>
> As the war goes on the central authority loses more and more power.
> Almost all it's tax money is going to support the war, the great leaders
> are dying in the war - Garrett points out in one book that there is
> still a royal (or imperial - I forget which) family out there, but they
> are irrelivant.  A bit like the world Larence Watt-Evert developed for
> his Misenchanted Sword setting.
> As the war saps the human's Kingdoms the non-human races slowly rise to
> prominence again because they aren't getting themselves killed off in
> the war.
>
> In the first book of the series Garrett returns to the war zone to
> deliver an inherence.  Three girls (Rose, Tinney, and an old flame) are
> introduced here, and at least two of them become reoccurring characters
> (can't remember if the other one shows up again - I think she's
> mentioned in at least one more book).  He takes with him his old friend
> Morely (may have spelled that wrong) who drags along the three brothers
> (triplets with different mothers) to act as mules and additional
> fighters.
> As the series progresses, the war changes.  Some times it's good news
> for Garrett's side, sometimes it's bad news.  This often impacts on
> Garrett's live as wizards go to war or come home and the city reacts to
> the latest news.  Some of his cases involve things connected to the war.
>
> Spoilers......
>
>
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> Garrett's side gets some incredable victories handed to them by a merc
> General named Morning Glory who happens to be a centaur from the war
> zone (who used to work for the otherside until they backstabbed him).
> After victory follows victory Garrett's side is looking good - when
> Morning Glory declares independance and says he's ready to take on all
> sides.  Things look bad - there's talk of raising the tour of duty to 7
> years and calling up the old veterans.
> Then victory!  Garrett's side WINS!
> Now that people's energy is no long devoted to the war (and there's a
> bunch of returning soldiers wondering why these non-humans have all the
> good jobs) internal politics raises its ugly head and a secret police
> until starts up.  Post war stress builds.  Later a human first group
> starts (with support from the soldiers) that ties to stage a coup (I
> think this is in the last book).
>
> Hopefully this helps explain the setting.
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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From: "Ray Washburn" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 12:57:48 -0600

Note that you mentioned that you were reading "Faded Steel Heat"...that's
pretty far along in the series and would explain why some of the recurring
characters and plotlines are blowing by you.  I'll try to throw down some
background info without giving away too much information....

Garrett lives in the city of TunFaire which is one of the two great human
city/states (the other being Karantine).  These two human dominated
behemoths are currently at war over a section of land called the Cantard
which is the single most source for silver.  They have been struggling over
this land for three generations for no other reason than silver fuels magic.
All the great poobahs of the two citystates are sorcerors, so you can tell
why it's in their best interest to control the Cantard.

The powers that be in TunFaire have a standing conscription law for all
human males when they hit 18.  They then spend 5 years in the Cantard as
part of the Army, Navy or Marines.  Rank is largely based on your social
status and birth.  All the commanders (for both armies) were born to their
station and feel themselves infallible, hence the fact the war has never met
with a decisive conclusion.  Non-humans are exempt from conscription, but
the powers off the hill begin relaxing that restriction as the series goes
on.  Note that any male human character, no matter how fat or scrawny, in
the story has done his 5 and knows how to whip some major ass.  This is a
major factor in most of the storylines but it tends to be glossed over in
many of the books.

The Cantard is populated with non-human tribes.  Unicorns and Centaurs come
to mind in particular.  Unicorns being organized in small herds that
function much like a pride of lions....and they prey on anything that moves.
Centaurs are the whores of the Cantard, unscrupulous mercenaries known to
switch sides or betray their words in a heartbeat.  They're cheap, so they
are generally used as auxillaries or scouts for both armies.  Note that
there is a Merc general by the name of Glory Mooncalled (note he's a Centaur
and falls into the stereotype perfectly) that has a fair grasp of tactics
and a few cards up his sleeves....the fact that this is enough for him to
make fools out of the generals of both citystates elevates him to a level of
respect not touched by any other commander in the Cantard.  More to this
story, but I'm leaving it out due to strong spoilers in the storyline.

Due to the attrition of war on the male population of TunFaire, you end up
with the following:

1.  Females looking for a family have their work cut out for them.  Males
outnumber females probably 10 to 1.  This also results in men like Garrett
that don't really have a vested interest in settling down, so it makes it
easy for them to have a fairly long list of female friends.
2.  Breeds are beginning to outnumber humans.
3.  The powers on the Hill are whittling away at the things that make the
lesser classes respect them....hence the fact their powerbase is becoming
more unstable.

TunFaire and Karantine were established by conquest over the bones of
non-human tribes and countries, way back when.  Due to this fact the breeds
have banded together and formed their own sections of the city.  The city
watch does nothing in othse areas to promote TunFaire Law....so they are
almost autonomous states within TunFaire itself.  There is one section of
town cemeted around Morley Dote's "Joy House" that makes up the Safe zone of
the town....where any breed can meet to take care of business without
worrying about Chukos or other races killing them.  There is also an
'imperial family in exile' that have been referred to in a couple of the
books.  These imperials were apparently the previous rulers of TunFaire
before the Stormwardens and their ilk took over.

As to the underworld, it's run by a boss that cycles throughout the series.
It has it's fingers in every dirty dealing in town and most of the people
you'll meet through the storyline are in some way involved....Garrett
included.  The Tenderloin is an area of town for the most perverse
pleasures....once again an area of town protected from the inept city watch.

Hope this gives you a general feel for TunFaire....  My spelling may be a
bit off, but it's fairly close.




----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:21 AM


> Richard,
>
> "The cases are almost straight forward in comparison.'
>
> Aaack!  I'm halfway through, and I have only a glimmer of what the case
> may be about!  (I think all of two days have elapsed, and he's already
> encountered 4 former, current, or maybe girlfriends, been knocked out,
> and discovered virtually a new species of "humanoid" in his little
> town--not to mention been invited by the heads of nearly every political
> faction to act as subversive agent in one of the other factions.)
>
> And just *what* is the geopolitical landscape?  Is it small towns allied
> together or fighting, German-style principalities at one another's
> throats, nations against nations, or what?
>
> Steve
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 14:04:06 -0500

In article <[e-mail]> you write:
> Morning Glory was a centaur ??????????? This is not how I read it....

Hmmm.  Glory Mooncalled (!) is human, IIRC.

-- _Faded Steel Heat_ SPOILERS --


















At least, IIRC he shows up as a fairly tired old guy in _Faded Steel
Heat_.

--
David M. Meyer
[e-mail]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ray Washburn" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 13:08:50 -0600

Glory Mooncalled is a centaur, that's how he convinced the Centaur tribes to
help him in the Cantard..  Garrett meets him later in the series as
well...which confirms the fact.


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:04 PM


> In article <[e-mail]> you
write:
> > Morning Glory was a centaur ??????????? This is not how I read it....
>
> Hmmm.  Glory Mooncalled (!) is human, IIRC.
>
> -- _Faded Steel Heat_ SPOILERS --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At least, IIRC he shows up as a fairly tired old guy in _Faded Steel
> Heat_.
>
> --
> David M. Meyer
> [e-mail]
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Cutter <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) OOP Short Fiction
Date: 22 Jan 2001 14:09:47 -0600

Does anybody know if Glen Cook still retains publishing rights
to his short fiction?  Since so many of these stories were
published in fanzine or serials, they're hard to get ahold of.

I think they would make excellent canidates for online
pulishing, in the spirit of Baen Book's Free Library.

-Matt C.

Matthew C. Cutter
Support Analyst
Epicor Classic Support
[e-mail]

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From: "Joseph McGrath" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 15:54:19 -0000

Glory Mooncalled is not a Centaur! He is a cynical, manipulative old man who
is wrung dry of all his secrets, by the Dead Man. The Dead Man takes control
of him at the end of Faded Steel Heat, from inside a huge beer keg, while at
Weider's Estate. Poor chuckles gets disilusioned at the petty aspirations of
Mooncalled and Tama Montazuma. After all, Mooncalled was Old Bones's hero
for a while and i think the truth only vilifies and justifies the sarcastic
opinion that Morley and the Dead Man have about Humans.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 7:08 PM


> Glory Mooncalled is a centaur, that's how he convinced the Centaur tribes
to
> help him in the Cantard..  Garrett meets him later in the series as
> well...which confirms the fact.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
>
>
> > In article <[e-mail]> you
> write:
> > > Morning Glory was a centaur ??????????? This is not how I read it....
> >
> > Hmmm.  Glory Mooncalled (!) is human, IIRC.
> >
> > -- _Faded Steel Heat_ SPOILERS --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At least, IIRC he shows up as a fairly tired old guy in _Faded Steel
> > Heat_.
> >
> > --
> > David M. Meyer
> > [e-mail]
> >
> > =======================================================================
> >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 17:16:06 -0400


Joseph McGrath wrote:
>
> Glory Mooncalled is not a Centaur! He is a cynical, manipulative old man who
> is wrung dry of all his secrets, by the Dead Man. The Dead Man takes control
> of him at the end of Faded Steel Heat, from inside a huge beer keg, while at
> Weider's Estate. Poor chuckles gets disilusioned at the petty aspirations of
> Mooncalled and Tama Montazuma. After all, Mooncalled was Old Bones's hero
> for a while and i think the truth only vilifies and justifies the sarcastic
> opinion that Morley and the Dead Man have about Humans.

Sorry - it's that I thought he was called a centaur in the early books
and didn't want to spoil anything for those who haven't read that book.

Richard

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From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 17:19:30 -0400

Ray Washburn wrote:
>

This is a much more complete explanation that I offered - perhaps it
should go on a web pages titled "Setting for the Garrett books"?

Richard

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From: "Vonder Haar, Peter C." <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 15:26:44 -0600

 I can add it to the FAQ, slightly modified, if y'all agree it should go in.

 Pete

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Chilton [mailto:[e-mail]]
> This is a much more complete explanation that I offered - perhaps it
> should go on a web pages titled "Setting for the Garrett books"?
>
> Richard

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From: "Joseph McGrath" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 16:31:12 -0000

Oh No! Huge mistake! My Fault!
Eternal apologies! I spoiled something....! Even though it's too late..
Please don't let what i wrote detract anyone from .....argh! Stupid, stupid,
stupid.
Sorry, sorry
Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:19 PM


> Ray Washburn wrote:
> >
>
> This is a much more complete explanation that I offered - perhaps it
> should go on a web pages titled "Setting for the Garrett books"?
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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From: Steve Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett & BC world?
Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:21:54 -0600

Richard,

Thanks for the background on Garrett's world (though I didn't read past
your Spoilers warning).

This sounds like as nasty a world as that of the BC, in terms of
warfare.  I wonder if the sorcery is in any way similar?  Garrett speaks
of The Hill (where the local town magicians live) with mingled dread and
loathing, which is about what one would expect from the locals in the BC
universe, having to deal with such powers as those in The Circle (some
of them quite nasty).

I don't think I have seen anything that would put Garrett's world
clearly outside the BC world (though not necessarily in just the same
time frame as the BC books).  The level of technology seems roughly
similar, as does the level of political organization (though that's less
clear to me).  What I haven't seen yet is the political import of the
non-human species; is it possible that they can be roundly ignored by
the humans in most places, so that they may exist in the BC world but we
just don't every hear of them?

(Dread Empire is different:  There one national group that practises
sorcery in a big way, like nothing in the BC world.  Also, the portals
are a very important military, hence, geopolitical element, not existing
in the BC world or in Garrett's world.)

I wonder if Glen has ever considered doing more of a "straight" yarn
(not "hard-boiled detective" or pastiche of same) exploring the
convoluted geopolitics of Garrett's world.

BYW:  The Weider family and his mansion and brewery are very evidently
derived from the brewery families in St. Louis (Anheuser-Busch, Lemp).
Great fun seeing them playing a central role in comic fantasy :)

Steve

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From: Steve Harris <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:27:43 -0600

Ray,

Thanks for your summary perspective, too.

So what's with the Vegemites, or whatever it is?  (Vegamantic?)  How do
they figure into the TunFaire/Karentine war?

Steve

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From: Dave Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:33:58 -0600

--=====================_178747116==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 12:57 PM 1/22/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Note that you mentioned that you were reading "Faded Steel Heat"...that's
>pretty far along in the series and would explain why some of the recurring
>characters and plotlines are blowing by you.  I'll try to throw down some
>background info without giving away too much information....
>
>Garrett lives in the city of TunFaire which is one of the two great human
>city/states (the other being Karantine).  These two human dominated
>behemoths are currently at war over a section of land called the Cantard
>which is the single most source for silver.  They have been struggling over
>this land for three generations for no other reason than silver fuels magic.
>All the great poobahs of the two citystates are sorcerors, so you can tell
>why it's in their best interest to control the Cantard.

If I remember correctly, Tunfaire is a city in the country of Karentia

 From Sweet Silver Blues

Glory Mooncalled: Best all-around commander under Karentine colors.
Excellent tactician. Able to train slowest and most uninspired
men.  Handicapped by low birth, mercenary status, and role in Seigod Mutiny
while serving Venageti side.  Weakness is a consuming hatred of Venageti
warlords.

So the two countries at war in the Cantard would be Karentia and wherever
the Venageti are from.


>The powers that be in TunFaire have a standing conscription law for all
>human males when they hit 18.  They then spend 5 years in the Cantard as
>part of the Army, Navy or Marines.  Rank is largely based on your social
>status and birth.  All the commanders (for both armies) were born to their
>station and feel themselves infallible, hence the fact the war has never met
>with a decisive conclusion.  Non-humans are exempt from conscription, but
>the powers off the hill begin relaxing that restriction as the series goes
>on.  Note that any male human character, no matter how fat or scrawny, in
>the story has done his 5 and knows how to whip some major ass.  This is a
>major factor in most of the storylines but it tends to be glossed over in
>many of the books.
>
>The Cantard is populated with non-human tribes.  Unicorns and Centaurs come
>to mind in particular.  Unicorns being organized in small herds that
>function much like a pride of lions....and they prey on anything that moves.
>Centaurs are the whores of the Cantard, unscrupulous mercenaries known to
>switch sides or betray their words in a heartbeat.  They're cheap, so they
>are generally used as auxillaries or scouts for both armies.  Note that
>there is a Merc general by the name of Glory Mooncalled (note he's a Centaur
>and falls into the stereotype perfectly) that has a fair grasp of tactics
>and a few cards up his sleeves....the fact that this is enough for him to
>make fools out of the generals of both citystates elevates him to a level of
>respect not touched by any other commander in the Cantard.  More to this
>story, but I'm leaving it out due to strong spoilers in the storyline.

I don't recall any references in any of the Garrett books that would
indicate that Glory Mooncalled is a centaur.


>Due to the attrition of war on the male population of TunFaire, you end up
>with the following:
>
>1.  Females looking for a family have their work cut out for them.  Males
>outnumber females probably 10 to 1.  This also results in men like Garrett
>that don't really have a vested interest in settling down, so it makes it
>easy for them to have a fairly long list of female friends.
>2.  Breeds are beginning to outnumber humans.
>3.  The powers on the Hill are whittling away at the things that make the
>lesser classes respect them....hence the fact their powerbase is becoming
>more unstable.
>
>TunFaire and Karantine were established by conquest over the bones of
>non-human tribes and countries, way back when.  Due to this fact the breeds
>have banded together and formed their own sections of the city.  The city
>watch does nothing in othse areas to promote TunFaire Law....so they are
>almost autonomous states within TunFaire itself.  There is one section of
>town cemeted around Morley Dote's "Joy House" that makes up the Safe zone of
>the town....where any breed can meet to take care of business without
>worrying about Chukos or other races killing them.  There is also an
>'imperial family in exile' that have been referred to in a couple of the
>books.  These imperials were apparently the previous rulers of TunFaire
>before the Stormwardens and their ilk took over.
>
>As to the underworld, it's run by a boss that cycles throughout the series.
>It has it's fingers in every dirty dealing in town and most of the people
>you'll meet through the storyline are in some way involved....Garrett
>included.  The Tenderloin is an area of town for the most perverse
>pleasures....once again an area of town protected from the inept city watch.
>
>Hope this gives you a general feel for TunFaire....  My spelling may be a
>bit off, but it's fairly close.
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stacey Harris" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:21 AM
>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
>
>
> > Richard,
> >
> > "The cases are almost straight forward in comparison.'
> >
> > Aaack!  I'm halfway through, and I have only a glimmer of what the case
> > may be about!  (I think all of two days have elapsed, and he's already
> > encountered 4 former, current, or maybe girlfriends, been knocked out,
> > and discovered virtually a new species of "humanoid" in his little
> > town--not to mention been invited by the heads of nearly every political
> > faction to act as subversive agent in one of the other factions.)
> >
> > And just *what* is the geopolitical landscape?  Is it small towns allied
> > together or fighting, German-style principalities at one another's
> > throats, nations against nations, or what?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > =======================================================================
> >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
>
>
>=======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

Dave Roberts
[e-mail]

A witty saying proves nothing.
                         Voltaire
--=====================_178747116==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
At 12:57 PM 1/22/01 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Note that you mentioned that you were reading
"Faded Steel Heat"...that's<br>
pretty far along in the series and would explain why some of the
recurring<br>
characters and plotlines are blowing by you.  I'll try to throw down
some<br>
background info without giving away too much information....<br>
<br>
Garrett lives in the city of TunFaire which is one of the two great
human<br>
city/states (the other being Karantine).  These two human
dominated<br>
behemoths are currently at war over a section of land called the
Cantard<br>
which is the single most source for silver.  They have been
struggling over<br>
this land for three generations for no other reason than silver fuels
magic.<br>
All the great poobahs of the two citystates are sorcerors, so you can
tell<br>
why it's in their best interest to control the
Cantard.</blockquote><br>
If I remember correctly, Tunfaire is a city in the country of
Karentia<br>
<br>
 From Sweet Silver Blues<br>
<br>
<i>Glory Mooncalled: Best all-around commander under Karentine colors.
Excellent tactician. Able to train slowest and most uninspired men.
Handicapped by low birth, mercenary status, and role in Seigod Mutiny
while serving Venageti side.  Weakness is a consuming hatred of
Venageti warlords.<br>
<br>
</i>So the two countries at war in the Cantard would be Karentia and
wherever the Venageti are from.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>The powers that be in TunFaire have a standing
conscription law for all<br>
human males when they hit 18.  They then spend 5 years in the
Cantard as<br>
part of the Army, Navy or Marines.  Rank is largely based on your
social<br>
status and birth.  All the commanders (for both armies) were born to
their<br>
station and feel themselves infallible, hence the fact the war has never
met<br>
with a decisive conclusion.  Non-humans are exempt from
conscription, but<br>
the powers off the hill begin relaxing that restriction as the series
goes<br>
on.  Note that any male human character, no matter how fat or
scrawny, in<br>
the story has done his 5 and knows how to whip some major ass.  This
is a<br>
major factor in most of the storylines but it tends to be glossed over
in<br>
many of the books.<br>
<br>
The Cantard is populated with non-human tribes.  Unicorns and
Centaurs come<br>
to mind in particular.  Unicorns being organized in small herds
that<br>
function much like a pride of lions....and they prey on anything that
moves.<br>
Centaurs are the whores of the Cantard, unscrupulous mercenaries known
to<br>
switch sides or betray their words in a heartbeat.  They're cheap,
so they<br>
are generally used as auxillaries or scouts for both armies.  Note
that<br>
there is a Merc general by the name of Glory Mooncalled (note he's a
Centaur<br>
and falls into the stereotype perfectly) that has a fair grasp of
tactics<br>
and a few cards up his sleeves....the fact that this is enough for him
to<br>
make fools out of the generals of both citystates elevates him to a level
of<br>
respect not touched by any other commander in the Cantard.  More to
this<br>
story, but I'm leaving it out due to strong spoilers in the
storyline.<br>
</blockquote><br>
I don't recall any references in any of the Garrett books that would
indicate that Glory Mooncalled is a centaur.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Due to the attrition of war on the male
population of TunFaire, you end up<br>
with the following:<br>
<br>
1.  Females looking for a family have their work cut out for
them.  Males<br>
outnumber females probably 10 to 1.  This also results in men like
Garrett<br>
that don't really have a vested interest in settling down, so it makes
it<br>
easy for them to have a fairly long list of female friends.<br>
2.  Breeds are beginning to outnumber humans.<br>
3.  The powers on the Hill are whittling away at the things that
make the<br>
lesser classes respect them....hence the fact their powerbase is
becoming<br>
more unstable.<br>
<br>
TunFaire and Karantine were established by conquest over the bones
of<br>
non-human tribes and countries, way back when.  Due to this fact the
breeds<br>
have banded together and formed their own sections of the city.  The
city<br>
watch does nothing in othse areas to promote TunFaire Law....so they
are<br>
almost autonomous states within TunFaire itself.  There is one
section of<br>
town cemeted around Morley Dote's "Joy House" that makes up the
Safe zone of<br>
the town....where any breed can meet to take care of business
without<br>
worrying about Chukos or other races killing them.  There is also
an<br>
'imperial family in exile' that have been referred to in a couple of
the<br>
books.  These imperials were apparently the previous rulers of
TunFaire<br>
before the Stormwardens and their ilk took over.<br>
<br>
As to the underworld, it's run by a boss that cycles throughout the
series.<br>
It has it's fingers in every dirty dealing in town and most of the
people<br>
you'll meet through the storyline are in some way
involved....Garrett<br>
included.  The Tenderloin is an area of town for the most
perverse<br>
pleasures....once again an area of town protected from the inept city
watch.<br>
<br>
Hope this gives you a general feel for TunFaire....  My spelling may
be a<br>
bit off, but it's fairly close.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:21 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
> Richard,<br>
><br>
> "The cases are almost straight forward in comparison.'<br>
><br>
> Aaack!  I'm halfway through, and I have only a glimmer of what
the case<br>
> may be about!  (I think all of two days have elapsed, and he's
already<br>
> encountered 4 former, current, or maybe girlfriends, been knocked
out,<br>
> and discovered virtually a new species of "humanoid" in
his little<br>
> town--not to mention been invited by the heads of nearly every
political<br>
> faction to act as subversive agent in one of the other
factions.)<br>
><br>
> And just *what* is the geopolitical landscape?  Is it small
towns allied<br>
> together or fighting, German-style principalities at one
another's<br>
> throats, nations against nations, or what?<br>
><br>
> Steve<br>
><br>
>
=======================================================================<br>
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
list,<br>
>  visit
<<a href="http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html</a>>.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
=======================================================================<br>
 To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this
list,<br>
 visit
<<a href="http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html</a>>.</blockquote><br>
<div>Dave Roberts</div>
<div>[e-mail]</div>
<br>
<div>A witty saying proves nothing.</div>
<x-tab>        </x-tab><x-tab>        </x-tab><x-tab>        </x-tab>Voltaire
</html>

--=====================_178747116==_.ALT--


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From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Garrett & BC world?
Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:28:26 -0600

I have re-read GC books looking for hints that the worlds might be connected
or shared and have never found any real indications of such.
*
*
*
*
spoiler

for anyone

who hasn't read

SOLDIERS LIVE

(and shame on you!

it's been almost six months!)

*
***
*

Of course, the various gates on the Glittering Plain could conceivably
connect the worlds of BC, Garrett, Tower of Fear, Dread Empire, and
Swordbearer.


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From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:33:40 -0600

The Venageti are the people agianst whom the Karentines are fighting. They
are human apparently and have a medievla class system like Karenta (Glory
Mooncalled was best commander but because he was not noble never got the
credit he deserved, so he defected to karenta). No cassus belli was ever
described but cynical old Garrett and everybody knows the struggle is really
about who controls the silver (and gold)  mines of the Cantard, since
precious metals are needed to power the engines of sorcery.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 1/22/01 6:27 PM

Ray,

Thanks for your summary perspective, too.

So what's with the Vegemites, or whatever it is?  (Vegamantic?)  How do
they figure into the TunFaire/Karentine war?

Steve

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From: David George <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Vegemites (Was: RE: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead))
Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:40:50 -0600

The vegemites!  Yer crackin me up, man!

One of the tomes written in the past 24 may have answered this already but
you are a little mixed up.  TunFair is not at war with Karenta (there is no
"TunFaire/Karentine War")  TunFaire is the major city of Karenta.  The
Venageti are at war (for at least the first few Garrett books) with the
Karentines, fighting over mineral rights in The Cantard.  There is a whole
bunch of backstabbing as time goes by but eventually, Venageta (Home of the
Vegemites) pretty much drops out of the fighting.  Could come back I
suppose.

DG

PS: Vegemantic sounds suspiciously like a sexual-preference.  Ever heard
the Frank Zappa song "Call Any Vegetable"?

"No one will know if you don't want to let em know
No one will know unless it's you that might tell 'em so
Call and they'll come to you
shining and covered with dew
Vegetable feet, vegetable feet, vegetable feet are responding to you
Standing there shiny and proud by your side
holding your joint while the neighbors decide
Why is a vegetable something to hide?"

--Frank Zappa

And that's about as far OT as a body can go.  But please don't prove me
wrong on that count.

-----Original Message-----
Sent:    Monday, January 22, 2001 6:28 PM

Ray,

Thanks for your summary perspective, too.

So what's with the Vegemites, or whatever it is?  (Vegamantic?)  How do
they figure into the TunFaire/Karentine war?

Steve

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From: David George <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) That Rumor About Texas
Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:56:01 -0600

Way back when I joined this list (this sleepy list) someone floated a rumor
past that the geography for the Garrett novels was based on Texas.  Or
maybe the Midwest.  Does this ring any bells with anyone?  Anybody got some
reasons backing this rumor?  And does anyone have maps (not of Texas, I got
plenty of those) of Karenta/The Cantard/Venageta?

I know we've got maps of the Black Co. world, cool and great and useful for
gaming.  But I gotta say that the Garrett universe offers a lot more to
gaming enthusiasts.  This is not ragging on BC, but it is a rare gamemaster
who can pull off scenarios as heavy as BC, just my opinion not looking for
endorsements of how great your BC game is.  It's just that really heavy
stories don't always make great games.  Where is my neutral-greedy
half-dark elf thief/assassin (with a thing for the ladies) going to fit in
there?  But lo, in Garrett's world, the aforementioned character is already
part of the core cast.  My guy would be a pale copy of Morley.  Or perhaps
a distant, undistinguished cousin of same.

But: magic rich environments with lots of non-humans and cross-breeds and
tons of scamming going on!  Scamming is what a huge amount of the RPG's are
good for.  You accumulate loot, you accumulate weapons, armor, powerful
friends and enemies, time to go into some business or scheme or other.  And
the characters have such variety.  Yes there are heavy stories and heavy
characters (Cold Copper Tears--brrrr) but there is lots of
light-heartedness.  And a very rich, well-described city environment for
those characters to play in.  It's a bittersweet world, which in my
experience was always the best place for gaming.  Time to romp, time to get
drawn up short by serious events.

In short, if you told me that the Garrett universe started as a gaming
universe, I'd say "well, duh, it's perfect for it."  And if it didn't start
out as a gaming universe, well, it's still perfect for it.

Does anyone have already have a map?  Does anyone want to help make a map?
 Has Glen already sold gaming rights to anyone?  Who would we call to
negotiate them?  How much would they cost?  Am I getting ahead of myself
here?

DG

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From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) That Rumor About Texas
Date: 22 Jan 2001 19:37:53 -0600

I live in San Antonio, and used to live in Dallas, and have been all over
Texas, and have never seen a connection between the geography of Texas and
the Garrett world. I saw that earlier reference and dismissed it (although I
thought about it).

We know that TunFaire is a port, but not on a coast. You have to take a
barge to the sea, a short distance down river. once at sea, If you sail
south you get to Fair Harbor eventually,  near the edge of the Cantard. I
get the impression that the coast line curves southwest-northeast.
The Cantard we saw in Sweet Silver Blues in mostly desert but Garrett keeps
referring to swampy islands and (I think) jungle.
Tunfaire is far enough north that wooly mammoths are seen nearby but not so
cold that the thunder lizards are handicapped.
the river runs north from TunFaire through forest and farmland.
there are forests to the west.
the nice estates of the rich folk are west (Marengo North English) and south
(General what's his name) I believe (although Chodo Contague lives up
north).
a small number of other Karentine  cities have been mentioned but the only
one I can think of offhand is TenHagen where they make spectacles.
there was an elven city far to the west but it was destroyed for harboring
evil cults.

none of this excludes Texas save for the river--not many long navigable
rivers here. maybe the Brazos, but there is no major city on it near the
coast. Houston is a major port 30 miles inland but it's built in a swampy
area (Houston, Mexico City, Washington DC: three of the worst places in the
world for cities) and doesn't have rivers but does have bayous (bayoux?).
Besides, Venageta is "on the other side of the Cantard"--it doesn't have a
shared border with Karenta, I believe--which would mean that if Karenta were
Texas, Venageta would probably be central Mexico.

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From: "Amy Weathers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) That Rumor About Texas and other Garret Stuff
Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:49:58 -0700

I was always under the impression that Glory Mooncalled was a centuar.
Granted I have not read a Garret novel in the past five years and I do not
currently own any so my memory could be  way off and I have no way of
looking it up.

I had once heard some rumors that the Garret world geography was loosely
based on Montana but I never really did any checking up on that.

On the subject of roleplaying worlds,  the Sanctuary gaming world (and the
novels too) reminds me of Garret's world.  They both have their own
organized crimelords, thieves, beggars and 'good guy' rogues.  Both worlds
are also dark and have sorcerers causing many problems.  When I first read
some of the Sanctuary novels, they reminded me of the Garret novels.


Amy







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett & BC world?
Date: 23 Jan 2001 02:15:34 -0500 (EST)

>
>I have re-read GC books looking for hints that the worlds might be connected
>or shared and have never found any real indications of such.
>*
>*
>*
>*
>spoiler
>
>for anyone
>
>who hasn't read
>
>SOLDIERS LIVE
>
>(and shame on you!
>
>it's been almost six months!)
>
>*
>***
>*
>
>Of course, the various gates on the Glittering Plain could conceivably
>connect the worlds of BC, Garrett, Tower of Fear, Dread Empire, and
>Swordbearer.
>

    Not to mention a Starfisher's planet, or perhaps even Turtle's
world in The Dragon Never Sleeps.  The Black Company takes on the
Guardships.  Whoohoo!  ;-)
    OK, I guess it's getting late...

                Steve


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From: "Timothy P. Taylor" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 07:26:33 -0500

Uhm....its like okay.  Really.  No, *REALLY*  If you havn't read the book,
its not a *huge* loss.

and you can settle these things by simply emailing one another private
like...no spoilers posted...no public self-flagulations...life moves on.

<grin>

tt

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Joseph
> McGrath
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:31 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
>
>
> Oh No! Huge mistake! My Fault!
> Eternal apologies! I spoiled something....! Even though it's too late..
> Please don't let what i wrote detract anyone from .....argh!
> Stupid, stupid,
> stupid.
> Sorry, sorry
> Joe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:19 PM
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
>
>
> > Ray Washburn wrote:
> > >
> >
> > This is a much more complete explanation that I offered - perhaps it
> > should go on a web pages titled "Setting for the Garrett books"?
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > =======================================================================
> >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
> =======================================================================
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>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Joseph McGrath" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 07:52:53 -0000

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C08511.7D823F40
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Females outnumber males 10 to 1, not a bad ratio..
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Dave Roberts=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 12:33 AM
  Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)


  At 12:57 PM 1/22/01 -0600, you wrote:

    Note that you mentioned that you were reading "Faded Steel =
Heat"...that's
    pretty far along in the series and would explain why some of the =
recurring
    characters and plotlines are blowing by you.  I'll try to throw down =
some
    background info without giving away too much information....

    Garrett lives in the city of TunFaire which is one of the two great =
human
    city/states (the other being Karantine).  These two human dominated
    behemoths are currently at war over a section of land called the =
Cantard
    which is the single most source for silver.  They have been =
struggling over
    this land for three generations for no other reason than silver =
fuels magic.
    All the great poobahs of the two citystates are sorcerors, so you =
can tell
    why it's in their best interest to control the Cantard.

  If I remember correctly, Tunfaire is a city in the country of Karentia

  From Sweet Silver Blues

  Glory Mooncalled: Best all-around commander under Karentine colors. =
Excellent tactician. Able to train slowest and most uninspired men.  =
Handicapped by low birth, mercenary status, and role in Seigod Mutiny =
while serving Venageti side.  Weakness is a consuming hatred of Venageti =
warlords.

  So the two countries at war in the Cantard would be Karentia and =
wherever the Venageti are from.



    The powers that be in TunFaire have a standing conscription law for =
all
    human males when they hit 18.  They then spend 5 years in the =
Cantard as
    part of the Army, Navy or Marines.  Rank is largely based on your =
social
    status and birth.  All the commanders (for both armies) were born to =
their
    station and feel themselves infallible, hence the fact the war has =
never met
    with a decisive conclusion.  Non-humans are exempt from =
conscription, but
    the powers off the hill begin relaxing that restriction as the =
series goes
    on.  Note that any male human character, no matter how fat or =
scrawny, in
    the story has done his 5 and knows how to whip some major ass.  This =
is a
    major factor in most of the storylines but it tends to be glossed =
over in
    many of the books.

    The Cantard is populated with non-human tribes.  Unicorns and =
Centaurs come
    to mind in particular.  Unicorns being organized in small herds that
    function much like a pride of lions....and they prey on anything =
that moves.
    Centaurs are the whores of the Cantard, unscrupulous mercenaries =
known to
    switch sides or betray their words in a heartbeat.  They're cheap, =
so they
    are generally used as auxillaries or scouts for both armies.  Note =
that
    there is a Merc general by the name of Glory Mooncalled (note he's a =
Centaur
    and falls into the stereotype perfectly) that has a fair grasp of =
tactics
    and a few cards up his sleeves....the fact that this is enough for =
him to
    make fools out of the generals of both citystates elevates him to a =
level of
    respect not touched by any other commander in the Cantard.  More to =
this
    story, but I'm leaving it out due to strong spoilers in the =
storyline.


  I don't recall any references in any of the Garrett books that would =
indicate that Glory Mooncalled is a centaur.



    Due to the attrition of war on the male population of TunFaire, you =
end up
    with the following:

    1.  Females looking for a family have their work cut out for them.  =
Males
    outnumber females probably 10 to 1.  This also results in men like =
Garrett
    that don't really have a vested interest in settling down, so it =
makes it
    easy for them to have a fairly long list of female friends.
    2.  Breeds are beginning to outnumber humans.
    3.  The powers on the Hill are whittling away at the things that =
make the
    lesser classes respect them....hence the fact their powerbase is =
becoming
    more unstable.

    TunFaire and Karantine were established by conquest over the bones =
of
    non-human tribes and countries, way back when.  Due to this fact the =
breeds
    have banded together and formed their own sections of the city.  The =
city
    watch does nothing in othse areas to promote TunFaire Law....so they =
are
    almost autonomous states within TunFaire itself.  There is one =
section of
    town cemeted around Morley Dote's "Joy House" that makes up the Safe =
zone of
    the town....where any breed can meet to take care of business =
without
    worrying about Chukos or other races killing them.  There is also an
    'imperial family in exile' that have been referred to in a couple of =
the
    books.  These imperials were apparently the previous rulers of =
TunFaire
    before the Stormwardens and their ilk took over.

    As to the underworld, it's run by a boss that cycles throughout the =
series.
    It has it's fingers in every dirty dealing in town and most of the =
people
    you'll meet through the storyline are in some way =
involved....Garrett
    included.  The Tenderloin is an area of town for the most perverse
    pleasures....once again an area of town protected from the inept =
city watch.

    Hope this gives you a general feel for TunFaire....  My spelling may =
be a
    bit off, but it's fairly close.




    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Stacey Harris" <[e-mail]>
    To: <[e-mail]>
    Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:21 AM
    Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)


    > Richard,
    >
    > "The cases are almost straight forward in comparison.'
    >
    > Aaack!  I'm halfway through, and I have only a glimmer of what the =
case
    > may be about!  (I think all of two days have elapsed, and he's =
already
    > encountered 4 former, current, or maybe girlfriends, been knocked =
out,
    > and discovered virtually a new species of "humanoid" in his little
    > town--not to mention been invited by the heads of nearly every =
political
    > faction to act as subversive agent in one of the other factions.)
    >
    > And just *what* is the geopolitical landscape?  Is it small towns =
allied
    > together or fighting, German-style principalities at one another's
    > throats, nations against nations, or what?
    >
    > Steve
    >
    > =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
    >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
    >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
    >


    =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
     To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
     visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


  Dave Roberts
  [e-mail]


  A witty saying proves nothing.
                          Voltaire=20

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Females outnumber males 10 to 1, not a =
bad=20
ratio..</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" title=[e-mail]>Dave =
Roberts</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  =
title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 23, 2001 =
12:33=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: (glencook-fans) =
Garrett=20
  (was: dead)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>At 12:57 PM 1/22/01 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">Note that you mentioned that you were =
reading=20
    "Faded Steel Heat"...that's<BR>pretty far along in the series and =
would=20
    explain why some of the recurring<BR>characters and plotlines are =
blowing by=20
    you.  I'll try to throw down some<BR>background info without =
giving=20
    away too much information....<BR><BR>Garrett lives in the city of =
TunFaire=20
    which is one of the two great human<BR>city/states (the other being=20
    Karantine).  These two human dominated<BR>behemoths are =
currently at=20
    war over a section of land called the Cantard<BR>which is the single =
most=20
    source for silver.  They have been struggling over<BR>this land =
for=20
    three generations for no other reason than silver fuels =
magic.<BR>All the=20
    great poobahs of the two citystates are sorcerors, so you can =
tell<BR>why=20
    it's in their best interest to control the =
Cantard.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If I=20
  remember correctly, Tunfaire is a city in the country of =
Karentia<BR><BR>From=20
  Sweet Silver Blues<BR><BR><I>Glory Mooncalled: Best all-around =
commander under=20
  Karentine colors. Excellent tactician. Able to train slowest and most=20
  uninspired men.  Handicapped by low birth, mercenary status, and =
role in=20
  Seigod Mutiny while serving Venageti side.  Weakness is a =
consuming=20
  hatred of Venageti warlords.<BR><BR></I>So the two countries at war in =
the=20
  Cantard would be Karentia and wherever the Venageti are =
from.<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">The powers that be in TunFaire have a =
standing=20
    conscription law for all<BR>human males when they hit 18.  They =
then=20
    spend 5 years in the Cantard as<BR>part of the Army, Navy or =
Marines. =20
    Rank is largely based on your social<BR>status and birth.  All =
the=20
    commanders (for both armies) were born to their<BR>station and feel=20
    themselves infallible, hence the fact the war has never met<BR>with =
a=20
    decisive conclusion.  Non-humans are exempt from conscription,=20
    but<BR>the powers off the hill begin relaxing that restriction as =
the series=20
    goes<BR>on.  Note that any male human character, no matter how =
fat or=20
    scrawny, in<BR>the story has done his 5 and knows how to whip some =
major=20
    ass.  This is a<BR>major factor in most of the storylines but =
it tends=20
    to be glossed over in<BR>many of the books.<BR><BR>The Cantard is =
populated=20
    with non-human tribes.  Unicorns and Centaurs come<BR>to mind =
in=20
    particular.  Unicorns being organized in small herds =
that<BR>function=20
    much like a pride of lions....and they prey on anything that=20
    moves.<BR>Centaurs are the whores of the Cantard, unscrupulous =
mercenaries=20
    known to<BR>switch sides or betray their words in a heartbeat.  =
They're=20
    cheap, so they<BR>are generally used as auxillaries or scouts for =
both=20
    armies.  Note that<BR>there is a Merc general by the name of =
Glory=20
    Mooncalled (note he's a Centaur<BR>and falls into the stereotype =
perfectly)=20
    that has a fair grasp of tactics<BR>and a few cards up his =
sleeves....the=20
    fact that this is enough for him to<BR>make fools out of the =
generals of=20
    both citystates elevates him to a level of<BR>respect not touched by =
any=20
    other commander in the Cantard.  More to this<BR>story, but I'm =
leaving=20
    it out due to strong spoilers in the =
storyline.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I don't=20
  recall any references in any of the Garrett books that would indicate =
that=20
  Glory Mooncalled is a centaur.<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite type=3D"cite">Due to the attrition of war on the male =

    population of TunFaire, you end up<BR>with the =
following:<BR><BR>1. =20
    Females looking for a family have their work cut out for them.  =

    Males<BR>outnumber females probably 10 to 1.  This also results =
in men=20
    like Garrett<BR>that don't really have a vested interest in settling =
down,=20
    so it makes it<BR>easy for them to have a fairly long list of female =

    friends.<BR>2.  Breeds are beginning to outnumber =
humans.<BR>3. =20
    The powers on the Hill are whittling away at the things that make=20
    the<BR>lesser classes respect them....hence the fact their powerbase =
is=20
    becoming<BR>more unstable.<BR><BR>TunFaire and Karantine were =
established by=20
    conquest over the bones of<BR>non-human tribes and countries, way =
back=20
    when.  Due to this fact the breeds<BR>have banded together and =
formed=20
    their own sections of the city.  The city<BR>watch does nothing =
in=20
    othse areas to promote TunFaire Law....so they are<BR>almost =
autonomous=20
    states within TunFaire itself.  There is one section of<BR>town =
cemeted=20
    around Morley Dote's "Joy House" that makes up the Safe zone =
of<BR>the=20
    town....where any breed can meet to take care of business=20
    without<BR>worrying about Chukos or other races killing them.  =
There is=20
    also an<BR>'imperial family in exile' that have been referred to in =
a couple=20
    of the<BR>books.  These imperials were apparently the previous =
rulers=20
    of TunFaire<BR>before the Stormwardens and their ilk took =
over.<BR><BR>As to=20
    the underworld, it's run by a boss that cycles throughout the =
series.<BR>It=20
    has it's fingers in every dirty dealing in town and most of the=20
    people<BR>you'll meet through the storyline are in some way=20
    involved....Garrett<BR>included.  The Tenderloin is an area of =
town for=20
    the most perverse<BR>pleasures....once again an area of town =
protected from=20
    the inept city watch.<BR><BR>Hope this gives you a general feel for=20
    TunFaire....  My spelling may be a<BR>bit off, but it's fairly=20
    close.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: =
"Stacey=20
    Harris" <[e-mail]><BR>To:=20
    <[e-mail]><BR>Sent: Monday, January =
22, 2001=20
    1:21 AM<BR>Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: =
dead)<BR><BR><BR>>=20
    Richard,<BR>><BR>> "The cases are almost straight forward in=20
    comparison.'<BR>><BR>> Aaack!  I'm halfway through, and I =
have=20
    only a glimmer of what the case<BR>> may be about!  (I think =
all of=20
    two days have elapsed, and he's already<BR>> encountered 4 =
former,=20
    current, or maybe girlfriends, been knocked out,<BR>> and =
discovered=20
    virtually a new species of "humanoid" in his little<BR>> =
town--not to=20
    mention been invited by the heads of nearly every political<BR>> =
faction=20
    to act as subversive agent in one of the other =
factions.)<BR>><BR>>=20
    And just *what* is the geopolitical landscape?  Is it small =
towns=20
    allied<BR>> together or fighting, German-style principalities at =
one=20
    another's<BR>> throats, nations against nations, or =
what?<BR>><BR>>=20
    Steve<BR>><BR>>=20
    =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>>&n=
bsp;=20
    To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this=20
    list,<BR>>  visit <<A=20
    href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html"=20
    =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html</A>&=
gt;.<BR>><BR><BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR> To=20
    unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this =
list,<BR> visit=20
    <<A href=3D"http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html"=20
    =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html</A>&=
gt;.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
  <DIV>Dave Roberts</DIV>
  <DIV>[e-mail]</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>A witty saying proves=20
  =
nothing.</DIV><X-TAB>        </X-=
TAB><X-TAB>        </X-TAB><X-TAB=
>        </X-TAB>Voltaire=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Joseph McGrath" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett & BC world?
Date: 23 Jan 2001 07:58:26 -0000

I know like in the tower of fear when he writes of some of the mountains in
the south and some of these battles that were fought long ago. i admire the
idea of the Glittering plain just for that possibility alone. Although from
what we've seen so far at least 2 worlds look relatively the same, just with
completely different inhabitants.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 12:28 AM


> I have re-read GC books looking for hints that the worlds might be
connected
> or shared and have never found any real indications of such.
> *
> *
> *
> *
> spoiler
>
> for anyone
>
> who hasn't read
>
> SOLDIERS LIVE
>
> (and shame on you!
>
> it's been almost six months!)
>
> *
> ***
> *
>
> Of course, the various gates on the Glittering Plain could conceivably
> connect the worlds of BC, Garrett, Tower of Fear, Dread Empire, and
> Swordbearer.
>
>
> =======================================================================
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>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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From: "Joseph McGrath" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) That Rumor About Texas
Date: 23 Jan 2001 08:15:46 -0000

Henter West Middlen's? is  where Winger comes from....
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 1:37 AM


> I live in San Antonio, and used to live in Dallas, and have been all over
> Texas, and have never seen a connection between the geography of Texas and
> the Garrett world. I saw that earlier reference and dismissed it (although
I
> thought about it).
>
> We know that TunFaire is a port, but not on a coast. You have to take a
> barge to the sea, a short distance down river. once at sea, If you sail
> south you get to Fair Harbor eventually,  near the edge of the Cantard. I
> get the impression that the coast line curves southwest-northeast.
> The Cantard we saw in Sweet Silver Blues in mostly desert but Garrett
keeps
> referring to swampy islands and (I think) jungle.
> Tunfaire is far enough north that wooly mammoths are seen nearby but not
so
> cold that the thunder lizards are handicapped.
> the river runs north from TunFaire through forest and farmland.
> there are forests to the west.
> the nice estates of the rich folk are west (Marengo North English) and
south
> (General what's his name) I believe (although Chodo Contague lives up
> north).
> a small number of other Karentine  cities have been mentioned but the only
> one I can think of offhand is TenHagen where they make spectacles.
> there was an elven city far to the west but it was destroyed for harboring
> evil cults.
>
> none of this excludes Texas save for the river--not many long navigable
> rivers here. maybe the Brazos, but there is no major city on it near the
> coast. Houston is a major port 30 miles inland but it's built in a swampy
> area (Houston, Mexico City, Washington DC: three of the worst places in
the
> world for cities) and doesn't have rivers but does have bayous (bayoux?).
> Besides, Venageta is "on the other side of the Cantard"--it doesn't have a
> shared border with Karenta, I believe--which would mean that if Karenta
were
> Texas, Venageta would probably be central Mexico.
>
> =======================================================================
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>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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From: "Ray Washburn" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 08:25:27 -0600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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  If I remember correctly, Tunfaire is a city in the country of Karentia


  100% correct.  I scribbled that up while I was at work waiting on an =
install to finish...  There are a couple of errors in it....this one =
being the most blatant.  It was the Venageti vs the Karentines in the =
Cantard.


  I don't recall any references in any of the Garrett books that would =
indicate that Glory Mooncalled is a centaur.

  I believe Garrett refers to him as a centaur in the first two books.  =
I'm tempted to go back and re-read them just to make certain.

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3019.2500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>If I remember correctly, Tunfaire is a city =
in the=20
  country of Karentia<BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>100% correct.  I scribbled that =
up while I=20
  was at work waiting on an install to finish...  There are a =
couple of=20
  errors in it....this one being the most blatant.  It was the =
Venageti vs=20
  the Karentines in the Cantard.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I don't recall any references in any of =
the=20
  Garrett books that would indicate that Glory Mooncalled is a=20
  centaur.<BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I believe Garrett refers to him as a =
centaur in=20
  the first two books.  I'm tempted to go back and re-read them =
just to=20
  make certain.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Pete Flugstad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) That Rumor About Texas
Date: 23 Jan 2001 08:33:37 -0600

David George wrote:
>
> Way back when I joined this list (this sleepy list) someone floated a rumor
> past that the geography for the Garrett novels was based on Texas.  Or
> maybe the Midwest.  Does this ring any bells with anyone?  Anybody got some
> reasons backing this rumor?  And does anyone have maps (not of Texas, I got
> plenty of those) of Karenta/The Cantard/Venageta?

I don't know about the geography, but the names for some of his characters
in Faded Steel Heat are directly from names of cities on Iowa.  Specifically,
"Tama Montezuma" (major character in Faded Steel Heat) is on exit sign on
I-80, on US Highway 63 about 40 miles east of Des Moines.  There's a few
others as well (Tama's boyfriend/companion in FSH, but I can't recall the
name right now).

I'm guessing Glenn traveled to DSM for something (a show) and saw the
names on the way back to St. Louis and liked them.

Pete

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From:    "Marcin Welnicki" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 16:38:30 +0100


-----
I don't recall any references in any of the Garrett books that would
indicate that Glory Mooncalled is a centaur.

I believe Garrett refers to him as a centaur in the first two books.  I'm
tempted to go back and re-read them just to make certain.

No- he says that Glory Mooncalled uses centaurs to scout for him



--


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From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett & BC world?
Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:59:48 -0400

Steve Harris wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> Thanks for the background on Garrett's world (though I didn't read past
> your Spoilers warning).
>
> This sounds like as nasty a world as that of the BC, in terms of
> warfare.

The setting is nasty, but the tone isn't.  I feel the tone has more in
common with the detective tales of the 30s than the BC books.
One of the main difference?  Garrett is a Hero - a Good Guy.  Try
finding one of those in the BC.

>  I wonder if the sorcery is in any way similar?  Garrett speaks
> of The Hill (where the local town magicians live) with mingled dread and
> loathing, which is about what one would expect from the locals in the BC
> universe, having to deal with such powers as those in The Circle (some
> of them quite nasty).
>

I'm not sure - the magic seems to be more elemental based (Stormwardens
etc) than the BC.

> I don't think I have seen anything that would put Garrett's world
> clearly outside the BC world (though not necessarily in just the same
> time frame as the BC books).

I'd say different, for two reasons:
The gods make an actual apperance in one book.
The non-humans - the BC hasn't even heard legends of these guys.

>  The level of technology seems roughly
> similar, as does the level of political organization (though that's less
> clear to me).  What I haven't seen yet is the political import of the
> non-human species; is it possible that they can be roundly ignored by
> the humans in most places, so that they may exist in the BC world but we
> just don't every hear of them?
>

I can't see Crooker not following legends of the non-humans.  Also
"Thunder Lizards" still walk the earth.

> (Dread Empire is different:  There one national group that practises
> sorcery in a big way, like nothing in the BC world.  Also, the portals
> are a very important military, hence, geopolitical element, not existing
> in the BC world or in Garrett's world.)
>

I'm not sure I'd say that the DE is all that different from the BC
world.  If the Dominator (or Lady) had been more secure in his power -
to the extent that wizardary was openly taught - I could see their
Empire practicing magic in a big way.

> I wonder if Glen has ever considered doing more of a "straight" yarn
> (not "hard-boiled detective" or pastiche of same) exploring the
> convoluted geopolitics of Garrett's world.
>

I think that would violate the tone of the books - like setting a
romantic love story in the world of the BC it just wouldn't fit.

> BYW:  The Weider family and his mansion and brewery are very evidently
> derived from the brewery families in St. Louis (Anheuser-Busch, Lemp).
> Great fun seeing them playing a central role in comic fantasy :)
>

Brewery families like that have existed for centuries - I don't know
enough about the St. Louis ones to agree that they served as the model.

Richard

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From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) That Rumor About Texas and other Garret Stuff
Date: 23 Jan 2001 19:15:42 -0400

Amy Weathers wrote:
>
> I was always under the impression that Glory Mooncalled was a centuar.
> Granted I have not read a Garret novel in the past five years and I do not
> currently own any so my memory could be  way off and I have no way of
> looking it up.
>

I too have not read them in a while but recall some connection to the
Centaurs...  Something along the lines of him leading his people (the
Centaurs)....
Something about the centaur refugues not being overly welcomed.

> On the subject of roleplaying worlds,  the Sanctuary gaming world (and the
> novels too) reminds me of Garret's world.  They both have their own
> organized crimelords, thieves, beggars and 'good guy' rogues.  Both worlds
> are also dark and have sorcerers causing many problems.  When I first read
> some of the Sanctuary novels, they reminded me of the Garret novels.
>

I read them in the other order (read both as they came out and Thief's
World came out first), and I'm not sure the setting is all that
similar.  Thief's World was the first big experiment in building a
Shared World and while it spawn several others you can see the growing
pains in the first couple of books.
I see both series borrowing from a long tradition of fantasy theives -
from the underworld of the Grey Mouser to the Dark World Detective.
Even the "Tales from the Dying Earth" series had some good crime
elements.

As for adopting the Garrett books to a RPG - it wouldn't be hard.  D&D,
GURPS, Rolemaster, RuneQuest -  all have most of the races you'd need.
The magic system isn't well defined so adopting that might be a problem.

It's not the make up of the world that draws readers to Garrett - it's
the setting.  Elven Gangsters using Orge breed muscle - other worlds
have Elves and Orges, but I can't recall any book (other than a couple
of TSR ones, but their tone was radically different) that had that style
of Elves and Orges.

Richard

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: (glencook-fans) Garrett geography
Date: 23 Jan 2001 19:02:49 EST

The city of Tun Faire is quite obviously based on St. Louis where Glen lives.
 I haven't heard him confirm it, but I have heard him refuse to deny it.  I
don't think the world geography is based on anywhere in our world, the only
thing that is you can really tell is that Karenta is in the southern
hemisphere.  Why?  Because thunder lizards live to the north where it is
hotter, and as the weather has been warming, they have been spreading south.

Michael W Sweet

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From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Garrett geography
Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:09:28 -0600

In response to an earlier message regarding place names in the Garrett
world:

I saw and spoke to Mr Cook back at the Worldcon here in San Antonio back in
'96 or '97?, I forget which.
He said that his earlier reviewers gave him a real hard time about the
unpronouncable names he gave to people and places in the Dread Empire
series, so he decided 'he'd show them.' Hence names like Charm, Oar, and
Beryl, Case, Elmo, and Goblin in BC.
He also said that he got most of the names for Garrett-world characters from
street signs. I got the impression that most were in the St Louis area, but
given that Mr Cook travels so much (and the testimony of our other
correspondent), it would seem he finds interesting names everywhere.

so, does anybody know where the "marengo/north english" exit is?

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From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Mooncalled as Centaur
Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:31:09 -0600

Finished re-reading Faded Steel Heat last night and Mooncalled is distinctly
a human in that one.

Mooncalled relied on centaur auxilliaries for much of the Cantard War, which
may be what confuses people. They are mobile, smart, and deadly.

The only centaur in the Garrett series with a name is Zeck Zack, the
procurer in Sweet Silver Blues.

Other Centaur references are:
Garrett sees a refugee family of centaurs in TunFaire (I forget which book),
which is his first clue things are getting wierd in the war.
In a later book (again I forget which), he sees a Centaur who hires himself
out to haul cargo, indicating non-humnas have begun to make a place in the
Karentine economy.
In Faded Steel Heat, cenaturs acting for Mooncalled appear near teh Pipes,
North English's estate, and later some attempt to rescue various bad guys
being 'interviewed' by Garrett, Block, Relway, et al.

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From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett geography
Date: 23 Jan 2001 19:48:27 -0500 (EST)

>
>so, does anybody know where the "marengo/north english" exit is?
>

    I don't know about that one, but I often used to drive past
the "Glenwood/Cookville" exit when I lived in Maryland (it's off Rt. 70
near Columbia MD).  It always made me think of Glen Cook when I went by.
:-)

                Steve


--
Steve Chew - [e-mail] - http://www.interzone.com
"The spinal column is a long bunch of bones.  The head sits on the top and
 you sit on the bottom."
        -- things children say...

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From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Garrett geography
Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:47:55 -0600

One of the nice things about working in a library is that you learn how to
find the answers to your own questions. Marengo and North English are both
towns in Iowa.

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From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Garrett geography
Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:09:28 -0600

In response to an earlier message regarding place names in the Garrett
world:

I saw and spoke to Mr Cook back at the Worldcon here in San Antonio back in
'96 or '97?, I forget which.
He said that his earlier reviewers gave him a real hard time about the
unpronouncable names he gave to people and places in the Dread Empire
series, so he decided 'he'd show them.' Hence names like Charm, Oar, and
Beryl, Case, Elmo, and Goblin in BC.
He also said that he got most of the names for Garrett-world characters from
street signs. I got the impression that most were in the St Louis area, but
given that Mr Cook travels so much (and the testimony of our other
correspondent), it would seem he finds interesting names everywhere.

so, does anybody know where the "marengo/north english" exit is?

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett geography
Date: 23 Jan 2001 20:54:35 EST


--part1_25.105ecd84.279f8fdb_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 1/23/01 6:20:14 PM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


>

Well, there's a Marengo Cave in Indiana...  a county there too, I think.

North English is a city in Iowa.

--part1_25.105ecd84.279f8fdb_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/23/01 6:20:14 PM Central Standard Time,
<BR>[e-mail] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">so, does anybody know where the "marengo/north english" exit is?</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Well, there's a Marengo Cave in Indiana...  a county there too, I think.
<BR>
<BR>North English is a city in Iowa.</FONT></HTML>

--part1_25.105ecd84.279f8fdb_boundary--

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From: Pete Flugstad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett geography
Date: 23 Jan 2001 20:14:50 -0600


"Horky, Roger" wrote:
>
> so, does anybody know where the "marengo/north english" exit is?
>

That's the one I couldn't remember.

This is another exit off if I-80 in Iowa.  I'm pretty sure it's
exit 216 or 220, about 70 miles east of Des Moines.

Pete

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From: "Don" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 23:11:48 -0600

Dude. Warn us for spoilers. Reading that first line sucked. I haven't gotten
that far in the series yet.

Don
"In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC


----- Original Message -----
Cc: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:54 AM


> Glory Mooncalled is not a Centaur! He is a cynical, manipulative old man
who
> is wrung dry of all his secrets, by the Dead Man. The Dead Man takes
control
> of him at the end of Faded Steel Heat, from inside a huge beer keg, while
at
> Weider's Estate. Poor chuckles gets disilusioned at the petty aspirations
of
> Mooncalled and Tama Montazuma. After all, Mooncalled was Old Bones's hero
> for a while and i think the truth only vilifies and justifies the
sarcastic
> opinion that Morley and the Dead Man have about Humans.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ray Washburn <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 7:08 PM
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
>
>
> > Glory Mooncalled is a centaur, that's how he convinced the Centaur
tribes
> to
> > help him in the Cantard..  Garrett meets him later in the series as
> > well...which confirms the fact.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[e-mail]>
> > To: <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
> >
> >
> > > In article <[e-mail]>
you
> > write:
> > > > Morning Glory was a centaur ??????????? This is not how I read
it....
> > >
> > > Hmmm.  Glory Mooncalled (!) is human, IIRC.
> > >
> > > -- _Faded Steel Heat_ SPOILERS --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At least, IIRC he shows up as a fairly tired old guy in _Faded Steel
> > > Heat_.
> > >
> > > --
> > > David M. Meyer
> > > [e-mail]
> > >
> > >
=======================================================================
> > >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> > >
> >
> >
> > =======================================================================
> >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Horky, Roger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 23 Jan 2001 23:55:36 -0600

I understand that people are confused but don't know why. Can anybody cite a
passage from any of the books athat would identify Mooncalled as anything
but human?

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bill Curran <[e-mail]>
Subject: (glencook-fans) Garrett books
Date: 23 Jan 2001 22:54:15 -0800


I have only read the BC books.  If I were to find it, which of the Garrett
books should I read first???




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett books
Date: 24 Jan 2001 13:24:22 -0500 (EST)

>
>I have only read the BC books.  If I were to find it, which of the Garrett
>books should I read first???
>

    I always like to start with the first book of a series which
in this case would be "Sweet Silver Blues".  It introduces the
characters and sets up the world that the rest of the books depend
on.  It also happens to be my favorite Garrett book.

                Steve


--
Steve Chew - [e-mail] - http://www.interzone.com
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine."

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From: Richard Chilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett books
Date: 24 Jan 2001 15:30:41 -0400

Bill Curran wrote:
>
> I have only read the BC books.  If I were to find it, which of the Garrett
> books should I read first???
>

I'd say the first one - Sweet Silver Blues.  It introduces all the
characters and explains the setting.  The later books are torn between
repeating everything for new readers and not boring readers of the
previous books.

Getting in late in the series can be confusing - same as any series.
For example, pick up the BC during the Glittering Stone bit and you get
a very small idea who Lady is.  Read the entire series (starting with
the Books of the North) and Lady is a much fuller character.

With Garrett, there are no big bloodbaths that remove characters, so
someone introduced fully in an earlier books can show up in a later one
- and this leads to "Who is Blah anyway?"

The opening chapters of the second book (and most of the later ones) has
a big spoiler for the end of the first book.  Sometime along the lines
of "X owes big because..." - one of the big surprises of book 1 that is
an important background fact in the early books.

Richard

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From: "Joseph McGrath" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 24 Jan 2001 16:50:19 -0000

Don,
If you look back about twenty five messages ago you'll see i apologized
profusely.
Blame it on my enthusiasm for the Garrett series.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:11 AM


> Dude. Warn us for spoilers. Reading that first line sucked. I haven't
gotten
> that far in the series yet.
>
> Don
> "In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph McGrath <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Cc: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
>
>
> > Glory Mooncalled is not a Centaur! He is a cynical, manipulative old man
> who
> > is wrung dry of all his secrets, by the Dead Man. The Dead Man takes
> control
> > of him at the end of Faded Steel Heat, from inside a huge beer keg,
while
> at
> > Weider's Estate. Poor chuckles gets disilusioned at the petty
aspirations
> of
> > Mooncalled and Tama Montazuma. After all, Mooncalled was Old Bones's
hero
> > for a while and i think the truth only vilifies and justifies the
> sarcastic
> > opinion that Morley and the Dead Man have about Humans.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ray Washburn <[e-mail]>
> > To: <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 7:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
> >
> >
> > > Glory Mooncalled is a centaur, that's how he convinced the Centaur
> tribes
> > to
> > > help him in the Cantard..  Garrett meets him later in the series as
> > > well...which confirms the fact.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <[e-mail]>
> > > To: <[e-mail]>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
> > >
> > >
> > > > In article <[e-mail]>
> you
> > > write:
> > > > > Morning Glory was a centaur ??????????? This is not how I read
> it....
> > > >
> > > > Hmmm.  Glory Mooncalled (!) is human, IIRC.
> > > >
> > > > -- _Faded Steel Heat_ SPOILERS --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At least, IIRC he shows up as a fairly tired old guy in _Faded Steel
> > > > Heat_.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > David M. Meyer
> > > > [e-mail]
> > > >
> > > >
> =======================================================================
> > > >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > > >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
=======================================================================
> > >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
> >
> > =======================================================================
> >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> >
>
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bill Curran <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett books
Date: 24 Jan 2001 14:44:33 -0800

It was a little difficult for me to get through the first book of the BC series,
but I stuck with it and enjoyed the book.  As I read the others, I couldnt
believe how hooked I was with the series...

Richard Chilton wrote:

> Bill Curran wrote:
> >
> > I have only read the BC books.  If I were to find it, which of the Garrett
> > books should I read first???
> >
>
> I'd say the first one - Sweet Silver Blues.  It introduces all the
> characters and explains the setting.  The later books are torn between
> repeating everything for new readers and not boring readers of the
> previous books.
>
> Getting in late in the series can be confusing - same as any series.
> For example, pick up the BC during the Glittering Stone bit and you get
> a very small idea who Lady is.  Read the entire series (starting with
> the Books of the North) and Lady is a much fuller character.
>
> With Garrett, there are no big bloodbaths that remove characters, so
> someone introduced fully in an earlier books can show up in a later one
> - and this leads to "Who is Blah anyway?"
>
> The opening chapters of the second book (and most of the later ones) has
> a big spoiler for the end of the first book.  Sometime along the lines
> of "X owes big because..." - one of the big surprises of book 1 that is
> an important background fact in the early books.
>
> Richard
>
> =======================================================================
>  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
>  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Don" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
Date: 29 Jan 2001 23:04:30 -0600

Sorry,
I hadn't read your apology yet when I sent my exclamation. I'm sure I'll
forget what I learned by the time I get around to those books.

Don
"In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC


----- Original Message -----
Cc: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:50 AM


> Don,
> If you look back about twenty five messages ago you'll see i apologized
> profusely.
> Blame it on my enthusiasm for the Garrett series.
> Joe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:11 AM
> Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
>
>
> > Dude. Warn us for spoilers. Reading that first line sucked. I haven't
> gotten
> > that far in the series yet.
> >
> > Don
> > "In time, what's deserved always gets served."- COC
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joseph McGrath <[e-mail]>
> > To: <[e-mail]>
> > Cc: <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
> >
> >
> > > Glory Mooncalled is not a Centaur! He is a cynical, manipulative old
man
> > who
> > > is wrung dry of all his secrets, by the Dead Man. The Dead Man takes
> > control
> > > of him at the end of Faded Steel Heat, from inside a huge beer keg,
> while
> > at
> > > Weider's Estate. Poor chuckles gets disilusioned at the petty
> aspirations
> > of
> > > Mooncalled and Tama Montazuma. After all, Mooncalled was Old Bones's
> hero
> > > for a while and i think the truth only vilifies and justifies the
> > sarcastic
> > > opinion that Morley and the Dead Man have about Humans.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Ray Washburn <[e-mail]>
> > > To: <[e-mail]>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 7:08 PM
> > > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Glory Mooncalled is a centaur, that's how he convinced the Centaur
> > tribes
> > > to
> > > > help him in the Cantard..  Garrett meets him later in the series as
> > > > well...which confirms the fact.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <[e-mail]>
> > > > To: <[e-mail]>
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:04 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Garrett (was: dead)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > In article
<[e-mail]>
> > you
> > > > write:
> > > > > > Morning Glory was a centaur ??????????? This is not how I read
> > it....
> > > > >
> > > > > Hmmm.  Glory Mooncalled (!) is human, IIRC.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- _Faded Steel Heat_ SPOILERS --
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At least, IIRC he shows up as a fairly tired old guy in _Faded
Steel
> > > > > Heat_.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > David M. Meyer
> > > > > [e-mail]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > =======================================================================
> > > > >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > > > >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> =======================================================================
> > > >  To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
> > > >  visit <http://www.xmission.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
> > >
> > >
> > >
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