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fractint-digest      Thursday, September 6 2001      Volume 01 : Number 594




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:51:18 -0400
From: Ken MacLean <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD  02-09-01  (Land of Sunflowers [4])

David -- you are just the guy I'm looking for!
I have a 3dfx Voodoo 3000, bought in summer of 2000, on the CD it says
Version 1.4, for Win95, Win98, and NT4. I am running NT4. Paul says that
many machines have had problems running fractint in DOS with NT4. If you
would be so kind as to tell me how you set yours up and what OS you are
running, I'd appreciate it. Any other helpful hints would be welcome.
Probably it's NT4 that's the culprit.
- -Ken

David Jones wrote:

> Which 3dFX board do you have? The one we have runs
> Fractint quite happily at 1024x768 and 1280x1024 ...
>
> David
> [e-mail]
>
> On  2 Sep 01 at 23:02, Ken MacLean wrote:
>
> > Paul --
> > Is there any way to run fractint on a machine that
> > doesn't have a VESA board? My rig has a 3dFX PCI board,
> > but I can't seem to run the DOS version of fractint on
> > any setting but F3 or SF1, which doesn't generate very
> > good resolution. Sincerely, Kenneth MacLean
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:01:39 -0400
From: Ken MacLean <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Query to List

I am running NT4.0 with a 3dfx Voodoo 3000 PCI graphics board, but I
cannot get fractint (version 20.0) to run on any video modes other than
F3 and SF1, which give unacceptably poor resolution. If anyone out there
has gotten fractint to run with NT4 with ANY PCI graphics board, I would
really appreciate if you would tell me how you did it!
Sincerely,
Kenneth MacLean


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:24:16 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Query to List

Ken MacLean wrote:

>>>I am running NT4.0 with a 3dfx Voodoo 3000 PCI graphics board, but I
cannot get fractint (version 20.0) to run on any video modes other than
F3 and SF1, which give unacceptably poor resolution. If anyone out there
has gotten fractint to run with NT4 with ANY PCI graphics board, I would
really appreciate if you would tell me how you did it!<<<

Ken,

You may be out of luck. There is a knowledge base article on microsoft.com that
specifically says NT4 does not support VESA and will not run any DOS program in
other than standard VGA (320x200x256 or 640x480x16). I have a Matrox Millenium
PCI card that I run under NT4 and, like you, SF1 (360x480x256) is the best I can
do with Fractint. There have been reports in the past that some users have run
Fractint at higher resolutions but this is the exception, not the rule.

By the way, does anyone know if Fractint will run in VESA video modes under
Windows XP? XP supposedly has various 'compatibility modes'.

Nick



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 19:43:02 -0400
From: Ken MacLean <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Query to List

Nick -- thanks very much for that -- it's just what Paul said -- I'm SOL in NT4. Oh
well. I need a new motherboard anyway, I'll just throw one in and upgrade (or
downgrade!) to another version of windoze.
- -- Ken

[e-mail] wrote:

> Ken MacLean wrote:
>
> >>>I am running NT4.0 with a 3dfx Voodoo 3000 PCI graphics board, but I
> cannot get fractint (version 20.0) to run on any video modes other than
> F3 and SF1, which give unacceptably poor resolution. If anyone out there
> has gotten fractint to run with NT4 with ANY PCI graphics board, I would
> really appreciate if you would tell me how you did it!<<<
>
> Ken,
>
> You may be out of luck. There is a knowledge base article on microsoft.com that
> specifically says NT4 does not support VESA and will not run any DOS program in
> other than standard VGA (320x200x256 or 640x480x16). I have a Matrox Millenium
> PCI card that I run under NT4 and, like you, SF1 (360x480x256) is the best I can
> do with Fractint. There have been reports in the past that some users have run
> Fractint at higher resolutions but this is the exception, not the rule.
>
> By the way, does anyone know if Fractint will run in VESA video modes under
> Windows XP? XP supposedly has various 'compatibility modes'.
>
> Nick
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:09:48 -0500
From: "Patrick Davis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Video Mode

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C13575.2AD6F1E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was wondering if any one has made or has a video mode for =
DiamondStealth 64 V mode.  I know there is one with it but the =
resolution is to big.  I need one for 1024x768.  If this is possible =
please let me know.  I don't have this video card but it works the best =
with my card.  I have a S3 Savage/IX Display Driver. =20

Pat Davis

- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C13575.2AD6F1E0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I was wondering if any one has made or =
has a video=20
mode for DiamondStealth 64 V mode.  I know there is one with it but =
the=20
resolution is to big.  I need one for 1024x768.  If this =
is=20
possible please let me know.  I don't have this video card but it =
works the=20
best with my card.  I have a S3 Savage/IX Display Driver. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Pat Davis</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C13575.2AD6F1E0--


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:27:23 -0400
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Warning re: Windoze XP

- ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C13599.26F8EA00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If you use XP on a machine that connects to the net, use the free ZoneAla=
rm at http://www.zonelabs.com or you could have problems. Keep the instal=
ler for ZoneAlarm handy as well. The current version (2.6, last I checked=
) has an obscure bug that can cause it to unexpectedly stop functioning f=
or no apparent reason. A reboot won't fix it, and a normal uninstall and =
reinstall won't either, because of a parallel bug in the uninstaller that=
 causes it to fail to remove some files. Uninstall, delete an Internet Lo=
gs directory, and reinstall and it works again...until the bug strikes ag=
ain, that is. Wash, rinse, and repeat. (The procedure is in a FAQ on thei=
r site in some more detail. It is, IMO, a mark of a lazy programmer to le=
ave a pair of bugs like that in a release product and then add a workarou=
nd to a FAQ instead of merely fixing them. The uninstaller bug is particu=
larly heinous and moreover, easily fixed, but the response is to add a FA=
Q entry instead. Shame on them. The software functions excellently otherw=
ise, which makes these bugs particularly stand out. And it's not a beta; =
with betas that kind of thing would be acceptable, if not expected.)

Why ZoneAlarm a net-connected XP box? Because if you don't, your machine =
can be hijacked to participate in unblockable and untraceable DDoS attack=
s on prominent Web sites or any other net-connected machine someone doesn=
't like. Read all about it at http://www.grc.com and don't say I didn't w=
arn you.<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a =
href=3D'http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</=
a><br>

- ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C13599.26F8EA00
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>If you use XP =
on a machine that connects to the net, use the free ZoneAlarm at <A href=3D=
"http://www.zonelabs.com">http://www.zonelabs.com</A> or you could have p=
roblems. Keep the installer for ZoneAlarm handy as well. The current vers=
ion (2.6, last I checked) has an obscure bug that can cause it to unexpec=
tedly stop functioning for no apparent reason. A reboot won't fix it, and=
 a normal uninstall and reinstall won't either, because of a parallel bug=
 in the uninstaller that causes it to fail to remove some files. Uninstal=
l, delete an Internet Logs directory, and reinstall and it works again...=
until the bug strikes again, that is. Wash, rinse, and repeat. (The =
procedure is in a FAQ on their site in some more detail. It is, IMO, a ma=
rk of a lazy programmer to leave a pair of bugs like that in a release pr=
oduct and then add a workaround to a FAQ instead of merely fixing them. T=
he uninstaller bug is particularly heinous and moreover, easily fixed, bu=
t the response is to add a FAQ entry instead. Shame on them. The software=
 functions excellently otherwise, which makes these bugs particularly sta=
nd out. And it's not a beta; with betas that kind of thing would be accep=
table, if not expected.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why ZoneAlarm a net=
- -connected XP box? Because if you don't, your machine can be hijacked to =
participate in unblockable and untraceable DDoS attacks on prominent=
 Web sites or any other net-connected machine someone doesn't like. Read =
all about it at <A href=3D"http://www.grc.com">http://www.grc.com</A> and=
 don't say I didn't warn you.<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML><DIV><BR><br clear=3D=
all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href=3D'http://go.ms=
n.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></DIV>

- ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C13599.26F8EA00--

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 09:00:29 +0200
From: "Thierry B." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Warning re: Windoze XP

    Where is the relation with fractals ?

- --
Thierry, 42++

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 02:53:54 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Warning re: Windoze XP

Multiple Bogeys wrote:
>
> It is, IMO, a mark of a lazy programmer to
> leave a pair of bugs like that in a release
> product...

Kind of like calling the kettle black is it not, since you have already
stated that your own fractal generator is hard coded to the point that
one would need to modify the source and recompile to get different
fractals.

>
> The software functions excellently otherwise,
> which makes these bugs particularly stand out.
> And it's not a beta; with betas that kind of
> thing would be acceptable, if not expected.

But it is the FREEWARE version, so you get what you pay for.  Now the
ZoneAlarm Pro version seems to run quite well without any bugs
whatsoever (at least the v2.6.214 one).

>
> Why ZoneAlarm a net-connected XP box?

Better yet, why post this topic to a FractInt and Fractals Discussion
List??

P.N.L.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 22:37:06 -1000
From: "David Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Video Mode

IIRC, the standard VESA 1024x768x256 worked fine with our
Diamond Stealth 64s. It's one of the options that comes
with Fractint.

David
[e-mail]

On  4 Sep 01 at 19:09, Patrick Davis wrote:

> I was wondering if any one has made or has a video mode
> for DiamondStealth 64 V mode.  I know there is one with
> it but the resolution is to big.  I need one for
> 1024x768.  If this is possible please let me know.  I
> don't have this video card but it works the best with my
> card.  I have a S3 Savage/IX Display Driver.


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:00:45 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) FOTD  05-09-01  (Star Pool [7])

FOTD -- September 05, 2001 (Rating 7)

Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts:

Starting with today's FOTD, I will be dropping the word
'classic'.  I originally added the word to distinguish the
purist type of fractals I discover, which emphasize the things
that numbers do, from the type of fractals intentionally created
to display the artistic skill of the creator.  But though the
name changes, the content will remain the same.

I had a bit of a problem coming up with a name for today's
image.  After a bit of pondering however, I stepped back from
the screen and noticed the near perfect, color-created star
surrounding the midget.  Then, reseating myself before the
screen, I noticed the eight bottomless pools, which even at a
maxiter of 12000 are still open at the center.  Combining the
words, I found the title "Star Pool".  Whether the image rating
of 7 is justified is up to the viewer to decide.

The generating formula, 1.01(Z)+1.01(1/Z)+(1/C), is deceptively
simple.  The parent fractal appears as a grossly distorted
Mandeloid, which is all main-bay.  The buds have shrunk almost
to the point of invisibility, but the buds are there, lining the
shoreline in countless numbers.  Today's scene lies on the north
shore of the main bay, in the star area of a tiny bud radical.

The render time from the parameter file is almost an hour on my
machine.  The download, which can be found at:

          <http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/FotD/FotD.html>

and at:

          <http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/fotd/index.html>

is far faster.  But before rushing to the web sites, give their
owners a chance to render and post the image.

The fractal weather today here at FC was partly cloudy and a bit
too warm for comfort.  The fractal cats found the temperature of
87F 30.5C good for nothing but sleeping, which is just about all
they do anyway.  At nightfall a short but heavy shower passed
over, ending the day with a splash.

As for me, it's time to start the day's work, and then start
organizing the presently scattered material for the upcoming
FOTD-CD.  It will be a trying task, but I'll tackle it with
enthusiasm, and ultimate success is assured.  Until tomorrow
comes, take care, and fractals are where it's at.


Jim Muth
[e-mail]


START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================

Star_Pool          { ; time=0:57:42.78--SF5 on a P200
  reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=allinone.frm
  formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1
  center-mag=-3.554187752194824/+1.980828277338422/1\
  .700027e+007/1/-59.999 params=1.01/1/1.01/-1/0/300
  float=y maxiter=12000 inside=0 logmap=730
  colors=000LEHLEHMGINIJOKKPMLQOMRQNSSOTTPUVQVWRWXSX\
  ZTY_UaaUfbUjcUcgRXkORoLKsIEwFFtGGqHGoHHlIIjJIgJJeK\
  KbKK`LLYMMVMMTNNQNOOOOLPPJPQGQQEQTMPWUPZaPaiOdqOfx\
  O`tVWq`RngMkmHhsTZrcPrhFleDf_CVUIPBHBBGDBFFBEIBDKC\
  CMCBPCARC9TC8VC7YD6_D5aD4dD3fD2hD1jC3iB4iB6hA7hA8h\
  9Ag9Bg8Df7Ef7Ff6He6Ie5Kd5Ld4Md3Oc3Pc2Rb2Sb1TbAVaKU\
  _UUYWUWYUU_USaUQcUOaUM`UK_UIZUGYUEXUCVUATT9RV9PX9S\
  Z8U`8Wb8Yd8_e8bg7di7fk7hl7jn7lp7or6qs6su6uw6wy6yz6\
  wq5uh4s`3qS2pK2f0Ja1GY2DV3AT4AR5AO6AK7AK8AM9AOAAQA\
  FSBKUCNWDQYER_FSaGSaHTaITaJUaJUcMTdOTeQTgSThUTiWTk\
  ZTl`TmbTcUTgXTk_TnbUleVjhWhkXflYdlZbm_`m`ZnaXobUoc\
  SpdQqeOqfMrgKrhIsiGtjEtkCulAulPhgcWcqK_lJXgJUbIUZI\
  cUImPHwKHzGHwENmDScBYUAbK8gA7m75r64w66t78r8Ap9CoAD\
  pBFqCHrDJsEKtFMuGOvHQwISxJTyKVzLXzMZzN_zOazPczQezR\
  gzRizTkzUmzVozXqzYszZuz`wzaxzbyzdzzezzfzzdzzczzbzz\
  azz`zzZzzYzzXzzWzzVzzUzzM
  }

frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth
a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2),
g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j,
k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel):
z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c,
|z| < l
}

END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE==================================

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 12:25:13 -0500
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Video Mode

Patrick Davis wrote:
>
> I was wondering if any one has made or has
> a video mode for DiamondStealth 64 V mode.
> ....  I need one for 1024x768.

On another machine I used to have, it had a DiamondStealth 64, and
FractInt worked quite fine with the standard "SF" modes.

If you are experiencing problems, have you tried running the MAKEFCFG
program to generate a FRACTINT.CFG file??  There is a small text file
called MAKEFCFG as well, which has some info about it.

Sincerely,
P.N.L.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 07:26:05 +0100
From: John Lewis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Warning re: Windoze XP

On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:27:23 -0400, Multiple Bogeys wrote:

>If you use XP on a machine that connects to the net, use the=
 free
ZoneAlarm at http://www.zonelabs.com or you could have problems.=
 Keep
the installer for ZoneAlarm handy as well. The current version
(2.6, last I checked) has an obscure bug that can cause it to
unexpectedly stop functioning for no apparent reason. A reboot=
 won't
fix it, and a normal uninstall and reinstall won't either,=
 because of
a parallel bug in the uninstaller that causes it to fail to=
 remove
some files. Uninstall, delete an Internet Logs directory, and
reinstall and it works again... until the bug strikes again, that=
 is.
Wash, rinse, and repeat. (The procedure is in a FAQ on their site=
 in
some more detail. It is, IMO, a mark of a lazy programmer to=
 leave a
pair of bugs like that in a release product and then add a=
 workaround
to a FAQ instead of merely fixing them. The uninstaller bug is
particularly heinous and moreover, easily fixed, but the response=
 is
to add a FAQ entry instead. Shame on them. The software functions=

excellently otherwise, which makes these bugs particularly stand=
 out.
And it's not a beta; with betas that kind of thing would be
acceptable, if not expected.)

>Why ZoneAlarm a net-connected XP box? Because if you don't, your=

machine can be hijacked to participate in unblockable and=
 untraceable
DDoS attacks on prominent Web sites or any other net- connected
machine someone doesn't like. Read all about it at=
 http://www.grc.com
and don't say I didn't warn you.


So that is the problem, thanks. I had a problem with the latest
version of ZA under WMe.  I went back to the previous version=
 which
had never given me a problem.

John
- -- John Lewis, [e-mail] on 09/05/2001


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 14:28:02 -0500
From: Programmer Dude <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD  03-09-01  (Not the Negative Stem [5])

[e-mail] wrote:

> On a philosophical note, I heard today that Steven Hawking, who
> is strong on AI, has warned that man must find a way to improve
> his DNA to give him greater intelligence.  According to Hawking,
> we must increase our intelligence to avoid the danger that
> machines with superior intelligence will take over the world.

For my money, Hawking is one of the great genii of the world....in his
own field.  Outside of it, he oft seems somewhat of a loon....

- --
|_ CJSonnack <[e-mail]> _____________| How's my programming? |
|_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL  |
|_____________________________________________|_______________________|

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 18:34:28 -0500
From: "Patrick Davis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Video Mode

I tried that but the message that pops up that it fails.  I think that it
can't read the video bios.  I am running this on a Win2k Toshiba Laptop.

Pat
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul N. Lee" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: (fractint) Video Mode


> Patrick Davis wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering if any one has made or has
> > a video mode for DiamondStealth 64 V mode.
> > ....  I need one for 1024x768.
>
> On another machine I used to have, it had a DiamondStealth 64, and
> FractInt worked quite fine with the standard "SF" modes.
>
> If you are experiencing problems, have you tried running the MAKEFCFG
> program to generate a FRACTINT.CFG file??  There is a small text file
> called MAKEFCFG as well, which has some info about it.
>
> Sincerely,
> P.N.L.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 18:51:46 -0700
From: Mark Christenson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD  03-09-01  (Not the Negative Stem [5])

At 02:28 PM 9/5/01 -0500, Programmer Dude wrote:
>[e-mail] wrote:
>
>> On a philosophical note, I heard today that Steven Hawking, who
>> is strong on AI, has warned that man must find a way to improve
>> his DNA to give him greater intelligence.  According to Hawking,
>> we must increase our intelligence to avoid the danger that
>> machines with superior intelligence will take over the world.
>
>For my money, Hawking is one of the great genii of the world....in his
>own field.  Outside of it, he oft seems somewhat of a loon....

Oh, I don't know.

First, as a physics BS (I know, a BS in *that* field is almost
useless), admittedly old school (class of ' 79), I find some of
his notions within his field to be somewhat loony.

On the other hand, *this* concern seems to me rather reasonable.
Not to say that life would necessarily imitate art in this case,
but there are many writers who have explored this very scenario
at various scales.  Classic examples include 2001, Colossus,
and Terminator.

In the event that we humans succeed in creating truly conscious
computers/robots/androids/whatever, that is to say devices that
are self-aware, capable of independant and creative thinking, and
able to act on their ideas, not even Asimov's robotic laws could
save us.  We would be as helpless against a brilliantly organized
robotic assault as our evolutionary cousins, including Neandertal,
were against the relentless advance of Homo Sapiens and our
ancestors.

As a really obscure aside, I should mention a short-lived TV Sci-Fi
series that was based on such a scenario.  Cleopatra 2525 was
based on the premise that in the early 21st Century flying robots
known as Baileys came to Earth and laid such an overwhelming
assault on its dominant species that all human life was driven
underground.  In 2525, the timeframe of the series, the puzzle
comes together.  It turns out that the Baileys were of terrestrial,
not alien, origin.  Their creator, a scientist named Bailey, was an
environmental extremist who decided that the only way to save
Earth was to remove humans from its surface.  His novel solution
both saved the environment and permitted the human race to
continue.


Computers control our commerce, communication, transportation,
energy generation and distribution, medical equipment...

... and, of course, our fractals ;-)


Aloha,
        Bud


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 00:10:36 -0400
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Warning re: Windoze XP

- ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C13668.5AA8DFC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Kind of like calling the kettle black is it not, since you have already
> stated that your own fractal generator is hard coded to the point that
> one would need to modify the source and recompile to get different
> fractals.

Wrong. I haven't released my fractal generator to the public. It's not ev=
en an alpha, let alone a beta or a "finished and polished" program.

> But it is the FREEWARE version...

So? That cuts no ice with me. If you do a job, I think you should do the =
best job you can.

[ZoneAlarm Pro]

The reason for paying for ZoneAlarm Pro should be because of features it =
adds, not bugs it fixes. Besides, if you'd actually read their FAQ, you'd=
 have found that it implies the same bugs are present in ZoneAlarm Pro.

Similarly, you should not have to pay for bug fix patches or upgrades to =
commercial software, only for feature-adding ones, and bundling a bug fix=
 with a new feature to force people to pay for the new feature even if th=
ey only want to fix the bug is wrong IMO.

> Better yet, why post this topic to a FractInt and Fractals Discussion
> List??

Because there was a discussion of XP and talk of people upgrading NT 4.x =
to XP in the hopes of running Fractint better. I wanted anyone here conte=
mplating doing anything of the sort to be aware of a possible "gotcha" in=
 performing that upgrade. (If it really constitutes an "upgrade".)

Got a problem with that?<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN=
 Explorer at <a href=3D'http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://ex=
plorer.msn.com</a><br>

- ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C13668.5AA8DFC0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>> Kind of l=
ike calling the kettle black is it not, since you have already<BR>> st=
ated that your own fractal generator is hard coded to the point that<BR>&=
gt; one would need to modify the source and recompile to get different<BR=
>> fractals.<BR></DIV> <DIV>Wrong. I haven't released my fractal gener=
ator to the public. It's not even an alpha, let alone a beta or a "finish=
ed and polished" program.</DIV> <DIV><BR>> But it is the FREEWARE vers=
ion...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So? That cuts no ice with me. If you =
do a job, I think you should do the best job you can.</DIV> <DIV> </=
DIV> <DIV>[ZoneAlarm Pro]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason for pay=
ing for ZoneAlarm Pro should be because of features it adds, not bugs it =
fixes. Besides, if you'd actually read their FAQ, you'd have found that i=
t implies the same bugs are present in ZoneAlarm Pro.</DIV> <DIV> </=
DIV> <DIV>Similarly, you should not have to pay for bug fix patches or up=
grades to commercial software, only for feature-adding ones, and bundling=
 a bug fix with a new feature to force people to pay for the new feature =
even if they only want to fix the bug is wrong IMO.</DIV> <DIV><BR>> B=
etter yet, why post this topic to a FractInt and Fractals Discussion<BR>&=
gt; List??<BR></DIV> <DIV>Because there was a discussion of XP and talk o=
f people upgrading NT 4.x to XP in the hopes of running Fractint better. =
I wanted anyone here contemplating doing anything of the sort to be aware=
 of a possible "gotcha" in performing that upgrade. (If it really constit=
utes an "upgrade".)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Got a problem with that?=
</DIV></BODY></HTML><DIV><BR><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download o=
f MSN Explorer at <a href=3D'http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http=
://explorer.msn.com</a><br></DIV>

- ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C13668.5AA8DFC0--

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 00:16:13 -0400
From: "Multiple Bogeys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 03-09-01 (Not the Negative Stem [5])

- ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C13669.23BC6620
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> On the other hand, *this* concern seems to me rather reasonable.
> Not to say that life would necessarily imitate art in this case,
> but there are many writers who have explored this very scenario
> at various scales.  Classic examples include 2001, Colossus,
> and Terminator.

Seen The Matrix yet? :)<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN =
Explorer at <a href=3D'http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://exp=
lorer.msn.com</a><br>

- ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C13669.23BC6620
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>> On the ot=
her hand, *this* concern seems to me rather reasonable.<BR>> Not to sa=
y that life would necessarily imitate art in this case,<BR>> but there=
 are many writers who have explored this very scenario<BR>> at various=
 scales.  Classic examples include 2001, Colossus,<BR>> and Termi=
nator.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seen The Matrix yet? :)<BR></DIV></BO=
DY></HTML><DIV><BR><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Expl=
orer at <a href=3D'http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explore=
r.msn.com</a><br></DIV>

- ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C13669.23BC6620--

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 00:55:18 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD  03-09-01  (Not the Negative Stem [5])

Check the philofractal list for my reply.

Jim M.

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:40:16 -0400
From: Ken MacLean <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD  03-09-01  (Not the Negative Stem [5])

Programmer Dude:
re intelligent robots, AI, and their takeover of humans,  have you read
Greg Benford's (physicist) series on that subject? A great read, the first
book is, I believe, 'Great Sky River.' Benford really makes you think about
the consequences of intelligent non-organic life with complete free will.
- -- Ken

Mark Christenson wrote:

> At 02:28 PM 9/5/01 -0500, Programmer Dude wrote:
> >[e-mail] wrote:
> >
> >> On a philosophical note, I heard today that Steven Hawking, who
> >> is strong on AI, has warned that man must find a way to improve
> >> his DNA to give him greater intelligence.  According to Hawking,
> >> we must increase our intelligence to avoid the danger that
> >> machines with superior intelligence will take over the world.
> >
> >For my money, Hawking is one of the great genii of the world....in his
> >own field.  Outside of it, he oft seems somewhat of a loon....
>
> Oh, I don't know.
>
> First, as a physics BS (I know, a BS in *that* field is almost
> useless), admittedly old school (class of ' 79), I find some of
> his notions within his field to be somewhat loony.
>
> On the other hand, *this* concern seems to me rather reasonable.
> Not to say that life would necessarily imitate art in this case,
> but there are many writers who have explored this very scenario
> at various scales.  Classic examples include 2001, Colossus,
> and Terminator.
>
> In the event that we humans succeed in creating truly conscious
> computers/robots/androids/whatever, that is to say devices that
> are self-aware, capable of independant and creative thinking, and
> able to act on their ideas, not even Asimov's robotic laws could
> save us.  We would be as helpless against a brilliantly organized
> robotic assault as our evolutionary cousins, including Neandertal,
> were against the relentless advance of Homo Sapiens and our
> ancestors.
>
> As a really obscure aside, I should mention a short-lived TV Sci-Fi
> series that was based on such a scenario.  Cleopatra 2525 was
> based on the premise that in the early 21st Century flying robots
> known as Baileys came to Earth and laid such an overwhelming
> assault on its dominant species that all human life was driven
> underground.  In 2525, the timeframe of the series, the puzzle
> comes together.  It turns out that the Baileys were of terrestrial,
> not alien, origin.  Their creator, a scientist named Bailey, was an
> environmental extremist who decided that the only way to save
> Earth was to remove humans from its surface.  His novel solution
> both saved the environment and permitted the human race to
> continue.
>
> Computers control our commerce, communication, transportation,
> energy generation and distribution, medical equipment...
>
> ... and, of course, our fractals ;-)
>
> Aloha,
>         Bud
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
> Post Message:   [e-mail]
> Get Commands:   [e-mail] "help"
> Administrator:  [e-mail]
> Unsubscribe:    [e-mail] "unsubscribe fractint"


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------------------------------

End of fractint-digest V1 #594
******************************