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fractint-digest      Wednesday, February 17 1999      Volume 01 : Number 368




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:14:31 -0500
From: Tom Conally <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) (Fwd) An apology

Finally, a happy ending to a most unhappy thread. I for one never thought
this virus was transmitted knowingly. Don't you guys forget "there but by
the grace of God go I." Also don't forget that by the mis-stroke of one
finger you can send a private e-mail to a whole list. Boy, it's really a
bad feeling when that private email was a dirty joke you were sending to a
friend and you just sent it to your church membership list by mistake.  OK
back to fractals!!!


>>Firstly I want to apologize for being the unwitting instrument for
>>the transmission of the Happy99 worm into the Fractint group.
>
>(Snipped)
>
>I would like to be among the first to welcome Mr. Wilson back, and to also
>offer an apology for flying off the end as I did. By way of explanation, I
>would mention that I had received that worm twice at home, more times at
>work, and had gotten a little ticked off at the situation.
>
>So... I imagine I offended Mr. Wilson and probably others; I again
>apologize for being most unconstructive.
>
>
>
>
Tom Conally
In every boomerang there is a perfect throw.
Your life, Grasshopper, is to practice  till you find that throw
and become one with that boomerang!
  Boomerangs        http://www.angelfire.com/nc/conally
   Paradise             http://www.netpath.net/~conally/
   Fractal Images   http://members.tripod.com/~afractal

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:31:31 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: happy99 warning

Bob wote:

> Our Leader, Tim, wrote:

I'm the leader am I? I thought I was the list administrator, who is a
sort of a public slave <grin!>

> Did you remove this message from the archives so that someone in the
> future won't download it, open it, and fall victim to it?

I can't do this because I don't have an xmission account. I have
brought this to the attention of xmission. I don't know if they will
consider it worth doing. It doesn't look to bad. If you view the
archive with a browser, you see the uuencoded file. Maybe there is
software that would see it as an attachment, but on my system, I'd
have to save the web page as a file, edit out the uuencoded part,
uudecode it, and run it.

I will follow up.

Tim



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:28:53 -0600
From: "Nature Leseul" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

<<But as I said before, the fact that I hold this opinion doesn't mean
that you are bound by it. Team freeware programming is not for
everyone. Only those of us who are idealistic and crazy.>>

  Here's to idealism and craziness! :-)

  To be perfectly honest, I really like the DOS version of Fractint. It's
certainly easy enough to use once you learn all the commands, and although
when I first started out I was really irritated at the difficulty of the
keyboard commands, I'm now even more irritated when I can't use the keyboard
to zoom. (Although XaoS's realtime zooming is certainly a cool thing that
I'd like to see in future Fractints.) I can see where conversion to a
Windows platform could improve the performance and allow more capabilities
in the program, but the DOS version is certainly always going to have a
special place in my heart.

  I just wish I could program worth bleep so I could contribute source to
this dream of free source. (Sheesh, if I can't even get a scrolling map to
work correctly for a game, how am I supposed to get anywhere with something
as complex as Fractint? :-P I actually tried to create a fractal generator
of my own in a bored moment in BASIC class, but I discovered that I had
virtually no idea where to go after implementing complex arithmetic.)
!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i
!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!
i!i!                             Nature Leseul
i!i!
i!i! "I wil play you some Mozart, if you like, which wil onlyi!i!
i!i!  make you weep, but my Don Juan, Christine, burns,  i!i!
i!i!  and yet he is not struck by fire from Heaven... You    i!i!
i!i!  see, Christine, there is some music that is so terriblei!i!
i!i!  that it consumes all who approach it."                      i!i!
!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i
!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!i!



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:34:31 -0700
From: Xylen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) (Fwd) An apology

Tom Conally wrote:
>
> Finally, a happy ending to a most unhappy thread. I for one never thought
> this virus was transmitted knowingly. Don't you guys forget "there but by
> the grace of God go I."

There is one more good thing from all this. Because of the uproar, I
knew what to do when a friend mentioned she had gotten "a neat little
fireworks thingy from a friend."  I lost no time at all in getting on
ICQ and finding out that it was indeed Happy99. She had the problem
fixed before her husband came home and started emailing his clients.
Both of us now have update anti-virus programs as well.

Let me add a hearty welcome back to John also. Not many people on the
list become famous after a single post.  :)

Xylen
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lottery---a tax on the mathematically illiterate
http://members.tripod.com/~Xylen
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:49:33 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

Blechhh! I wrote:

> BTW you'd be amazed how little the Fractint artists look at other
> programns.

I meant to write:

" BTW you'd be amazed how little the Fractint **programmers**
look at other programs."


 The fractint artists certainly DO look at other programs!!! <ggg!>

Tim


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:57:34 -0500
From: Gedeon Peteri <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: an apology

Welcome back John Wilson, and I am going to be one of the few, if not
the only one, who will offer you thanks for sending that worm or
virus!!! You have, in effect, resolved a quarrel between myself and my
son! The thing is, that two days before yours arrived, I received
Happy99 from my son. Now I NEVER execute programs, even if they come
from family, so I asked him what it is and why he sent it and where he
got it from. He replied rather testily that he did not send it, but even
if he did, I shouldn't think that he would send me harmful stuff; why am
I so suspicious?! I replied even more testily that, by golly he did send
it, because it had his heading on the message! As fathers and sons are
apt to do even over trivial matters. soon we were nearly quarreling!!
And then came John's Happy99 which cleared everything up. My son and I
are back on good terms!

Gedeon

- --
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Fractals: http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html
Member Infinite Fractal Loop
Last updated: February 12, 1999 - two new pages
Photography: http://members.xoom.com/gedeonp/index.html
Last updated: November 8, 1998
- --------------------------------------------------------------



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:28:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Muth <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Re: The price of fractal software

At 10:28 PM 2/16/99 -0600, NL wrote:

>To be perfectly honest, I really like the DOS version of Fractint.

I second this opinion, or perhaps I should say I fifth it.  I
have Fractint v-19.61 (the alpha version of v-20.0, with buggy
evolver), installed on five machines.  Fractint is not the world's
fastest fractal generator, it's just the best.  (Differing opinions
welcome.)

Jim Muth
[e-mail]




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:31:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

Tim,

> > BTW you'd be amazed how little the Fractint artists look at other
> > programns.
>
> I meant to write:
>
> " BTW you'd be amazed how little the Fractint **programmers**
> look at other programs."
>
>  The fractint artists certainly DO look at other programs!!! <ggg!>

I was wondering... That comment seemed a little odd to me.  :-)


Ken...

P.S.  As a programmer myself, I've downloaded source to programs where
it is available.  The only problem is, they don't also come with the
time to study them.  :-(



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:52:21 -0600
From: "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: The price of fractal software

Jim wrote:

> >To be perfectly honest, I really like the DOS version of Fractint.
>
> I second this opinion, or perhaps I should say I fifth it.  I
> have Fractint v-19.61 (the alpha version of v-20.0, with buggy
> evolver), installed on five machines.  Fractint is not the world's
> fastest fractal generator, it's just the best.  (Differing opinions
> welcome.)

I get messages all the time about how Fractint is "the greatest"
which I take with a grain of salt. However I confess that your
message really made me feel good - thanks!

I should add that nothing makes the fractint programmers work
harder and burn the midnight oil later working on fractint than the
requests and suggestions  from artists they respect.

Tim


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:51:19 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

In a message dated 2/16/99 11:33:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Here's to idealism and craziness! :-) >>
Bravo!
    Steve

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:13:17 -0700 (MST)
From: Kerry Mitchell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

> The Fractint team is still having a blast putzing around with their
> baby. I've been threatening for weeks to just release our current
> developer version as a "public beta" we may just up and do that.
>
> Tim Wegner

Tim,

Please do!  If you've been watching the Ultra Fractal list, you've seen
that a great many improvements, bug fixes and artistic tools came to light
because Frederik made the UF betas public.  I've felt a twinge of guilt
ever since I started working more with UF than with Fractint, and even
though I'm not a (real) programmer, I've got my own legacy of Fractint
code built up.  I'd love to continue to contribute to the Fractint effort,
even if it's only in the "aftermarket" of formulas and coloring schemes.
(I did once contribute some complex math formulas that Tim included, but
that doesn't really count.)

Kerry

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry Mitchell
[e-mail]    http://www.primenet.com/~lkmitch/
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:30:40 +0100
From: "Frederik Slijkerman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

Hi Tim,

> > That's true, but this is not due to the availability of the source
> > code. I can learn from Fractint just by using it and reading the
> > documentation.
>
> Sure you can. You don't see my point, maybe I didn't explain it
> well. Fractint is the result of contributions from many people.
> People cannot and will not contribute to closed source commercial
> programs except in a very general way (unless, of course, you
> make them partners). It is precisely because Fractint is open
> source that it developed into something full featured enough that
> you would want to emulate it.

I see your point here. In the case of Fractint, this is certainly
true. But a program doesn't necessarily have to be open source to
evolve into something others want to emulate. Take Adobe Photoshop,
for example. It isn't open source, yet every other serious photo
processing tool has incorporated layering since Photoshop showed
it for the first time. This is because you don't need to look at
the source code to understand how it is done.

But I agree open source software will usually evolve faster.

> > In the same fashion other developers can benefit
> > from Ultra Fractal, even though its source is not available.
>
> I don't see the point here. We are inundated with mail about ideas
> for doing things in Fractint (have you seen the Fractint Wish List
> Web page?). We don't need ideas. We already have more ideas
> than we can implement.

Right, in that case only time can help you out. :)

> No, it is just as fun and exciting as ever. The problem is the aging
> platform. We have squeezed an amazing amount into the medium
> model of Fractint, but we near a dead end. It is a very non-trivial
> matter to move from conventional C programming to Windows
> programming.

Hm. Perhaps you could try to use C++ Builder, the C variant of
Delphi. In my experience, it takes away the problems of Windows GUI
programming, so you can concentrate on getting the program to work
instead. But inevitably you will have to spend some training hours. :)

> We have a different perspective on this. We can respectfully agree
> to disagree.

OK. :)

Best regards,
Frederik.


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:48:11 +1300
From: "Morgan L. Owens" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GUIs and the future of Fractint (was: Re: (fractint) The price of  fractal software)

At 01:35 17/02/99 +0000, Pedro A. O. Lopes wrote:
>Ken Childress wrote:
>
>I agree that fractint must break free of DOS if it is going to keep up
>with the host of fractal programs that are out there. I really think the
>best way to do this would be to throw all UI related stuff out, leaving
>the "core" functionality to be accessed through a well defined programming
>interface (something like set_parameter(...) / get_parameter(...) /
>execute_command(...) ). Then, in good Open Source style, anyone could
>volunteer to support a GUI as a front end to this library, for any variety
>of environments, more or less independently of the core fractint
>development.
>
I agree that this is probably the best direction to take: chuck the UI
stuff (and a few other bits like printing) - which tend to be the most
platform-dependent parts anyway - and write front-ends (hopefully with full
open source!) to plug into the Fractint engine.

This of course is basically the approach taken in POV-Ray, with the
raytracing engine itself being the work of the POV-Ray team, and the
Windows interface being by Christopher Cason.

The Windows interface, incidentally, is not completely open source; some
portions remain closed.

Since Tim Wegner is himself a member of this team, he is in a much better
position than I to judge the pros and cons and feasibility of taking
Fractint down the same path. How do you take it, Tim? At present I think
this may well be the way to go.

Morgan L. Owens
PS. No need to go overboard with new stuff straight away; just get Fractint
doing what it did under DOS first.



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:47:51 +0100
From: "Dean-Christian Strik" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

I said I'd try (and I will), but wine 990214 requires mesa3d, and my .tar.gz
was corrupted :( so I have to redl and compile it first. More about it
tonight (CET!).

- --

Dean-Christian Strik
   ICQ: 11760568
 [e-mail]
[e-mail]

Real programmers like vending machine popcorn. Coders pop it in the
microwave oven. Real programmers use the heat given off by the CPU. They can
tell what job is running just by listening to the rate of popping.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Frederik Slijkerman <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: dinsdag 16 februari 1999 20 28 Fluxen
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software


>
>> Does anyone know if UltraFractal will work under WINE? This would allow
>> Linux users to run it...
>
>If anyone can get UF to work with Linux, I would be interested to hear
>about it.
>
>Best regards,
>Frederik.
>
>
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>



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:35:22 +1100
From: "Mark Townsend" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Cubic polynomials what?

Here's a couple of formulas and a few example images for an equation that I
ripped out of a book that I'm reading at the moment. I don't have the
stamina to go through all of the existing Fractint formulas to see if I'm
repeating anything. I've named the formulas after a mathematician who
investigated this stuff in 1879 but gave up because he presumably didn't
have a Pentium.

Apparently the equation uses Newton's method to solve a family of cubic
polynomials...I'm just repeating what I read, I don't really understand it.
With the constant at (0,0) the Julia version of the formula looks the same
as the Fractint "Newton", but with some other constants there are points
that don't fall to any of the roots. That much was said in the book, but I
wasn't expecting the form that those points can take: little copies of
classic Julia sets. The Mandelbrot version of the formula has the Mandelbrot
shape embedded in a cardioid ring of Newton like chains. To find the Julia
sets zoom in close to the boundary of one of the Mandelbrot forms and use
the center coordinates for the constant in the Julia version.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting.

Mark Townsend
[e-mail]

Cayley.par ------------------------------------------------

frm:Cayley-mand { ; Mark Townsend, 17 Feb 1999
; Always use floating point math and turn
; periodicity checking off.
;*************************
  z = oldz = 0, a = pixel:
;*************************
  oldz = z
  z = (2 * z * z * z - (a - 1)) / (3 * z * z - a)
  |z - oldz| >= 0.00001
}

frm:Cayley-jul {  ; Mark Townsend, 17 Feb 1999
; Always use floating point math and turn
; periodicity checking off.
;*****************************
  z = pixel, a = p1, oldz = 0:
;*****************************
  oldz = z
  z = (2 * z * z * z - (a - 1)) / (3 * z * z - a)
  |z-oldz| >= 0.00001
}

Cayley-m1          {
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=*.frm
  formulaname=Cayley-mand center-mag=1.26284/0.0150945/0.4423676
  float=y maxiter=500 inside=0 colors=@goodega.map cyclerange=0/255
  }

Cayley-m2          {
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=*.frm
  formulaname=Cayley-mand center-mag=-0.00820288/0.967066/15.57632
  float=y maxiter=500 inside=0 colors=@goodega.map cyclerange=0/255
  }

Cayley-j1          {
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=*.frm
  formulaname=Cayley-jul center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=0/0 float=y
  maxiter=500 inside=0 periodicity=0 colors=@goodega.map
  cyclerange=0/255
  }

Cayley-j2          {
  reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=*.frm
  formulaname=cayley-jul center-mag=0.0101139/0.00328321/7.496691
  params=-0.01105/0.97048 float=y maxiter=1000 inside=0 periodicity=0
  colors=@blues.map cyclerange=0/255
  }











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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:19:07 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint in DOS

In a message dated 2/16/99 8:27:08 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> I like Fractint better than any of my Windows-based fractal generators
>  because working with the keyboard is faster than using the mouse.  I think
>  Fractint in windows would be great as long as it kept all the keyboard
>  shortcut commands.

I feel the same! I started out with Winfract because a friend gave me the disk
and book. But I didn't get really moving till I d/l'd Fractint. I also found
it much easier to learn (okay, figure out.......*slowly,* not being any kind
of programmer etc., just a person with some eye for color and design). I have
Xaos, UltraFractal and now TieraZon but haven't had time to work with them. I
have never found I didn't have "time" to work with Fractint!

Dama

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:29:22 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

In a message dated 2/16/99 9:33:40 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

>  I can see where conversion to a
>  Windows platform could improve the performance and allow more capabilities
>  in the program, but the DOS version is certainly always going to have a
>  special place in my heart.

Agreed! I'm wondering if a DOS emulation could be written into the impending
Windows version?????

Dama

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:34:42 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: The price of fractal software

In a message dated 2/16/99 10:31:28 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> Fractint is not the world's
>  fastest fractal generator, it's just the best.  (Differing opinions
>  welcome.)

You won't get another opinion from me!

Dama

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:42:43 -0300
From: "Ricardo M. Forno" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) DOS versus Windows

I tried to use Ultra Fractal, but felt the DOS interface more appealing
than the Windows one.


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:09:37 -0800
From: Lee&SusanLane <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

Frederik,

I downloaded Ultra Fractal a couple weeks ago, before your recent
interchanges with Tim Wegner. I was very impressed by Tim's comments on
the rewards of the community project that created Fractint and of the
pleasure and excitement it has brought to its community of users. Your
proprietary rights are very unimpressive by comparison. I have taken UF
off my computer and so shall not be sending you any money.

Tim, my hat is off to you and your associates, and if you ever want $35
from your users, it would be not only a pleasure to send it to you, but
the best bargain I ever got.

Lee Lane


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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:17:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Ken Childress <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

Lee,

> I downloaded Ultra Fractal a couple weeks ago, before your recent
> interchanges with Tim Wegner. I was very impressed by Tim's comments on
> the rewards of the community project that created Fractint and of the
> pleasure and excitement it has brought to its community of users. Your
> proprietary rights are very unimpressive by comparison. I have taken UF
> off my computer and so shall not be sending you any money.

IMO, that is a shame.  While UF certainly lacks some features of
Fractint that are desireable, UF is a fantastic program.  These programs
are tools.  Tools that can be used for amusement, learning, or to create
some very impressive art.

The developers of one of the tools have chosen to keep it's development
fully open.  Others, Frederik, specifically, have chosen not to.  So
what?  There are going to be fractal programs in the future that will
incorporate some of the features that UF has, probably layering being
one of the first.  Does that make UF any less useful?

I've tried several of the programs available.  By far, Fractint and UF
are the easiest to use, and most powerful, IMO.  Of the Windows programs
I've tried, UF is so easy to use it is almost ridiculous.  The problem
with UF is that there are so many powerful features that it takes a
while to learn them.

However, the great thing, I think, is that there are those like Tim (and
all the contributors to Fractint), Frederik, and others who are willing
to spend the time to create such outstanding tools that the rest of us
can play with.  It doesn't matter to me if the tool is freeware,
shareware, or has source code available.  If I like the tool, I'll use
it.  Just as I do with any other tool for any other purpose.  The great
thing is the choice, and the competition driving people to make better
tools.

> Tim, my hat is off to you and your associates, and if you ever want $35
> from your users, it would be not only a pleasure to send it to you, but
> the best bargain I ever got.

Mine too.  However, $35 for UF is a bargin and worth every cent.


Ken...





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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:10:43 -0000
From: Bruce Haxton <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) DOS v Windows

I have downloaded and played with several of the Windows generators on I
have seen mentioned on the list, but I find that for a novice to the world
of fractals like my self, the interface was not intuitive enough. I am very
surprised at this as I work with Windows every day and also have to program
in Windows at times. I find that the Fractint interface is a delight to use
and fairly intuitive for a newbie like myself. My thanks to the team for all
the thought that has obviously gone into making the interface easy for a
novice to enjoy creating fractals, but also allowing the more experienced
users to use their creative skills to the full.

Thanks

Bruce Haxton

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:40:17 +0100
From: Vyvey Jan <[e-mail]>
Subject: AW: (fractint) The price of fractal software

Hi,

I have one conclusion in this discussion of fractal software:
Everybody should print the following text (from Ken) in BIG letters
en hang it on the wall near to his computer screen.


>However, the great thing, I think, is that there are those like Tim (and
>all the contributors to Fractint), Frederik, and others who are willing
>to spend the time to create such outstanding tools that the rest of us
>can play with.  It doesn't matter to me if the tool is freeware,
>shareware, or has source code available.  If I like the tool, I'll use
>it.  Just as I do with any other tool for any other purpose.  The great
>thing is the choice, and the competition driving people to make better
>tools.


Greatings to all fractallers,
Jan

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:08:28 -0700
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

In article ,
    "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>  writes:
> should we not release the source to version 20? Why should we
> write open source, free software, when others will look at our code,
> even ask us questions about specific lines of code, and incorporate
> our new features into their fractint-compatible, commercial, closed
> source program?

IMO, the only reason commercial software *can* compete with fractint
is because fractint is showing signs of its age.  Its a DOS program,
with no Windows support.  Its currently difficult to extend because of
its 16bit DOS heritage.  The commercial programs currently have an
advantage over fractint because they support the win32 look-and-feel and
regardless of how you feel about microsoft, people generally prefer a
win32 GUI application over a DOS program.

Fractint is at a crossroads in its development.  Many people would
like to contribute and improve the program (not to detract from those
who ARE currently contributing and improving fractint), but are put
off by its 16bit DOS development environment and the constraints
thereof (memory model, overlays, etc.).  Once fractint leaves 16bit
environments behind and updates itself to a 32bit environment (even
under DOS using a protected mode extender), I predict that people will
extend and enhance fractint much more readily.
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:18:35 -0700
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

In article ,
    "Tim Wegner" <[e-mail]>  writes:
> [...] Unless we get an infusion
> of new programming blood, or unless someone starts a brand new
> open source project similar to Fractint (but avoids the problems of
> the legacy code and platform), Fractint and what it represents is
> dead.

To quote Monty Python, "I'm not dead!" :-)

Fractint is definately at a turning point in its development.  What it
needs at this point is some serious restructuring of the existing code
(to get away from 16bit DOSisms and a more portable GUI), or a
complete rewrite.  (Sometimes a rewrite is preferable to a major
restructuring.)  However, attempting a rewrite (unless one person or a
small group of people do the majority of the work beforehand) will
involve a nearly infinite amount of discussion and opinion offering
about what a rewrite *should* be.  Too many chefs, not enough cooks.

> Where is there a full featured, open source program that is a
> worthy successor to Fractint? There isn't one, as far as I know.
> Actually I am very interested in Xaos, which runs on many
> platforms, and has just been ported to Windows. I may shift my
> efforts to working with Xaos, or merging some of Fractint's features
> with Xaos. Xaos, besides being open source, acknowledges
> Fractint generously.

Funny, I look at it the other way around :-).  XaoS' ideas should be
incorporated into fractint.
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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:30:15 -0700
From: Phil McRevis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) The price of fractal software

In article ,
    Ken Childress <[e-mail]>  writes:
> One a program
> enters into the GUI interface realm, portability suddenly becomes quite
> a major task.

Its not so major a task if you plan for it from the beginning.  What
makes it a major task for most people is that they haven't made any
effort to isolate the non-portable portions of their code from the
beginning and then attempt to retrofit it to another platform.  THAT
is a major task.  Fractint's user interface needs are rather simple
and could be isolated into a UI layer that is implemented on
Win32/MacOS/unix.  However, before anyone attempts such an
undertaking, fractint needs to be moved to a flat memory model.
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End of fractint-digest V1 #368
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