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fractint-digest         Tuesday, June 23 1998         Volume 01 : Number 240




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:15:14 -0500
From: David Ellis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Version of FractInt with 3DNow! support?

At 07:13 PM 6/22/98 +0100, you wrote:
>I meant, compared to what processor? An ordinary K6? At what speed?

  Compared to the same processor (whatever the speed) running the
unenhanced code, obviously.  A K6-2 running at 50 Mhz will execute the
3DNow! enhanced mandelbrot code 5 times faster than the same processor
running the original, non-enhanced mandelbrot code.


  Couple of other notes - someone mentioned that the K6-2 has an improved
FPU with pipelining.  This is false.  See AMD's web site for details on
exactly what they improved and added (
http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/k63d.html ) . They'd be the first to holler
if they had made such improvements as adding pipelining to the K6-2.  FWIW,
I ran my original K6-300 thru Winbench and the FPU Winmark was 973.  I then
popped the K6 out and replaced it with the K6-2 and got a 974.  No
discernable difference.

  As for the applicability of the new 3DNow! instructions to FractInt, I
see no reason why they can't be used as a superior substitute for 32-bit
integer work, regular FPU zooms, and deep-zooming.  Obviously, if a
programmer can code deep zoom utilizing 64-bit double precision FPU
registers, they can do the same using 32-bit single precision FPU
registers.  Since fractal coding usually involves a lot of square root work
and since the 3DNow! instruction set includes the ability to do square
roots over 10 times faster than the regular FPU, it can be expected that
you can get from here to there faster using the 3DNow! instruction than
with the regular FPU unit, its' 64-bit register size notwithstanding.




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:16:51 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) DOS on a floppy?t't't't't't....

In a message dated 98-06-22 18:28:56 EDT, you write:

<<  DOS on a floppy >>

"P'L'P'L'P'L'P'L'P'L'PLEASE EDDIE!!!!!!!"
Roger pleads feaverishly behind a thin and gradually collapsing firewall of
sanity
as the sound of that karmic phrase bounces around in his empty head like a
flubber ping pong ball.
"Youse know how us toones are....If I..If I... hear that phraze
onononone...one more time
I'm gonna.....I'm gonna looooooooooozzzzzzzzzzzzzz it!!!!!!!!! "
Eddie...  sometimes sadistic...especially when he hasn't had the time to spend
fractalizing....when he's been working on tedious things like learning new
software
and lameo software ta boot....he turns slowly to Roger and
venemously....lustfully even...
with a gleam of impending pleasure in his eyes says .... " What phraze you
silly rabbit...
could it beeeeeee.... DOS on a FLoppy "????"
 Sweat is now beading up on Rodgers forehead ....dripping off his drooping,
quivering ears.
He has his arms wrapped around his head holding it in but the pressure is
mounting
behind his bugging eyes and it seems that theres going to be no comeing back
from that last taunt from the realm of old cliche. He's turning pink holding
his breath... but to no avail. Like a teenage boy over the edge in a make out
session with his first "real" girlfriend...he just can't hold the ammo any
more>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 { turn the page }

Twoooooooooooooooooooooo000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000...
gasp...gasp....pant...pant...
Bits!!!!!!!!!
============================================================================
End of rant,
Steve :-P.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:25:45 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Version of FractInt with 3DNow! support?

David Ellis,

 -  Couple of other notes - someone mentioned that the K6-2 has an improved
 - FPU with pipelining.

That was me.

 - This is false.  See AMD's web site for details on exactly what they
 - improved and added

Thanks for the correction and the reference.  The information I had read
regarding that was published in a trade magazine (I forget which one)
rather than taken directly from AMD's site.

 - FWIW, I ran my original K6-300 thru Winbench and the FPU Winmark was 973.
 - I then popped the K6 out and replaced it with the K6-2 and got a 974.

Hmmm, yeah, that seems to indicate it's the same old FPU!

 -  As for the applicability of the new 3DNow! instructions to FractInt, I
 - see no reason why they can't be used as a superior substitute for 32-bit
 - integer work, regular FPU zooms, and deep-zooming.

Because single-precision floating-point numbers have only 24 bits of
precision, not 32 bits.  They don't get you as far.  And they're not going
to get you any substantial improvement in deepzooming, which is based on
using fixed-point integers of arbitrary size.  MMX doesn't offer much for
deepzooming, either.

 - Obviously, if a programmer can code deep zoom utilizing 64-bit double
 - precision FPU registers,

They don't, the deepzoom is based on integer code.

 - Since fractal coding usually involves a lot of square root work

Some fractals do, many don't.  The Mandelbrot set calculation involves only
addition, subtraction, and multiplication.

 - and since the 3DNow! instruction set includes the ability to do square
 - roots over 10 times faster than the regular FPU, it can be expected that
 - you can get from here to there faster using the 3DNow! instruction than
 - with the regular FPU unit, its' 64-bit register size notwithstanding.

You don't have to zoom very far to get beyond 24-bit precision.  A few
zooms will do it.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:40:48 -0500
From: "Damien M. Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Version of FractInt with 3DNow! support?

David Ellis,

 - Small correction: two floating point numbers, not four.  (According to
 - AMD's "AMD-3D Technology Manual" PDF file, anyway.)

Seems I must apologize for this one too: it's two numbers per instruction,
but up to two instructions per cycle, thus your number of four is correct
as per AMD's web page.

Damien M. Jones   \\
[e-mail]  \\  http://www.icd.com/tsd/ (temporary sanity designs)
                    \\  http://www.fractalus.com/ (fractals are my hobby)

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:50:59 -0500
From: David Ellis <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) RE: Mandelbrots and 3DNow!

Perhaps if someone on this list who speaks German could go poke around C'T
Magazine's web site and locate their mandelbrot program (and source,
perhaps).  The English section is very limited and I can't find the program
they are talkingabout anywhere.  Especially if we can obtain the source
code that utilizes the 3DNow! code, then we will now how they manage to
generate mandelbrots with it.

http://www.heise.de/ct/




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:40:43 -0400
From: "Jason Hine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) Fwd: Algorithms

The following message was posted by Karlton on 6/22/98 to the
fracprogrammers-list.  I am re-posting it here because I thought some of the
folks on this list might have some ideas for him.  I don't think he is a member
of this list, and because most of us are not members of the
fracprogramming-list, I am including his email addr+ACo-ss, +AF8-without+AF8- Karlton's
permission.
To try and avoid possible spamming techniques, each piece of his addr+ACo-ss is on a
separate line, followed by a space and a random character.  Comments on my
audacity and technique are welcome.  And now, without further Ado...

Karlton writes:
I am programming a Massively Parallel computer.  I have already
programmed it to do the Mandelbrot and the Julia sets, I am looking for
other fractal algorithms that would also work on it.  If you have any or
know where I can find some fractal algorithms, I would appreciate it.
Karlton
wirsingk +ACU-
+AEA-acm.org +ACM-


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:04:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fwd: Algorithms

On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Jason Hine wrote:
> Karlton writes:
> I am programming a Massively Parallel computer.  I have already
> programmed it to do the Mandelbrot and the Julia sets, I am looking for
> other fractal algorithms that would also work on it.  If you have any or
> know where I can find some fractal algorithms, I would appreciate it.
> Karlton
> wirsingk +ACU-
> +AEA-acm.org +ACM-

It would be worthwhile to enhance fractint to support MPI or PVM,
methinks.

Kragen


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:40:49 -0600
From: "mctupper" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) (fractit) A late Easter Egg

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I missed out on decorating Easter eggs this year, but through the magic of
fractals, I have found a nice little egg all ready to go.  I hope you enjoy
it as much as I did finding it.

- ------------------------------------------------
Mariah1            { ;               (c) Mary Tupper
  reset=1960 type=fn(z)+fn(pix) function=sin/sqr
  corners=0.13334272567/0.13499635367/-0.18217274635/-0.18255847359/0.1341\
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  potential=255/200/250 invert=1/0/0
  colors=8LrbbZ<8>OI5<6>eYJg_LiaNkcPneR<4>zpa<4>jdWgaVcZT`WSYUR<6>AAK<3>AL\
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  MAAKABL<17>Djn<12>EFA<11>svcsvcsvcsvc<10>_UMYRKXQKWPJUMHSJF<6>EAbDCeCEgB\
  GjAIn8Lr8Lr7Nu5Px<5>98fA5cB5`<2>E7UG8SH9QJANKBLMCLOEK<5>_VZb`c<5>nru<5>d\
  da
  }


OK, who stopped payment on my reality check?

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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:42:24 -0400
From: "Marie Drozdis" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) par-files

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We don't attach pars because not all of us are able to use attachments or
read them.

 -----Original Message-----




        This is what I have been saying. Why don't we attach the pars?

        Faye
        [e-mail]


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don't attach pars because not all of us are able to use attachments or =
read=20
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5px">
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN=20
        class=3D710474003-23061998><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial=20
        size=3D2>   </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2>This is what I have been saying. Why don't =
we attach=20
        the pars?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Faye</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
        href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BD9E37.6866CF40--


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Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:31:40 -0700
From: "Faye Williams" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) DOS on a floppy??  YES!

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01BD9E2D.86987FE0
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

To Christian and Steve,
I forwarded this message to the computer expert here who set up my =
computer and all the computers for my company.  He's an electronic =
engineer and a computer technician.  He's been working
on computer for over 18 years from the old teletype in a sound proof =
room through the Apple II, Apple II Plus, Commodore, IBM-PC, 286, 386, =
486, Pentium, Pentium Pro, Pentium MMX, and finally the Pentium II. He's =
also worked with higher end systems such as SUN, SGI, VME, and SciTech. =
He's worked with MS-DOS versions 5.0, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.22, and 7.5 =
(released with Windows 95). and also other os's such as OS/2, OSR2, =
Linux, UNIX, and Macintosh. He presently owns 7 systems doing highend =
video, graphics and animation.  This is his explanation as to why why I =
don't have DOS on my system.
My thanks to you Christian for your attempt to help me find an MS-DOS =
solution but an MS-DOS window using F8 then 6 or shutdown and restart in =
MS-DOS mode only gets you to a command prompt. I have OSR2 on my present =
system (Second release of Windows 95). I once had a dual operating =
system on my drive but it is not possible with OSR2. If you still have =
the older Windows 95 it will work, but only if you install MS-DOS 6.22 =
(or other version). First, copy the dos dir to another dir, install =
Windows 95 to a different dir than Windows 3.1 or 3.11 Windows for =
Workgroups, edit the MS Dos.sys file from the Windows 95 side (boot to =
Windows 95) add under options 'BootMulti=3D1' and 'BootMenu=3D1'. Delete =
the dos dir and copy the contents of the saved dos back to the original =
dos dir renaming 5 files that end in .exe to .old and that is it. Two =
fully independent os's working on the same machine. The reason why OSR2 =
won't work with this setup is that it has a certain capabilities that =
the Windows 95 or DOS os's don't have. DOS has a 2 Gb partition =
limitation. Windows 95 was released with DOS 7.5. Windows 95 sat atop of =
this DOS 7.5 so it too had this 2 GB limitation. OSR2 is it's own os. NO =
DOS. This os allows one drive to be partitioned at nearly any size. For =
instance, my drive C is 8 Gb. When you goto fdisk (set up partitions) =
with OSR2 it asks if you want to enable large disk support. This 8 Gb =
partition (drive c) is not recognized by any version of DOS or previous =
versions of Windows 95. If I boot to a floppy,  drive c does not even =
show up!! When I drop to a command prompt (it says ms-dos prompt because =
it emulates a dos prompt) it is just that, a command prompt, not MS-Dos. =
If you type ver at this command prompt you will see it still is Windows =
95 . Fractint and some other programs require MS-DOS version 5.0, 6.0 =
,6.1 ,6.2, or 6.22 to run properly. The first version of Windows 95 =
placed atop of MS-DOS 7.5 also does not work with some programs. The =
only way to run fractint is to boot to a DOS 6.22 formatted floppy. That =
is what I have to do.

Faye
[e-mail]


- ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01BD9E2D.86987FE0
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>To Christian and Steve,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I forwarded this message to the computer expert here =
who set=20
up my computer and all the computers for my company.  He's an =
electronic=20
engineer and a computer technician.  He's been working</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>on computer for over 18 years <FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">from the old teletype in a sound proof room =
through the=20
Apple II, Apple II Plus, Commodore, IBM-PC, 286, 386, 486, Pentium, =
Pentium Pro,=20
Pentium MMX, and finally the Pentium II. He's also worked with higher =
end=20
systems such as SUN, SGI, VME, and SciTech. He's worked with MS-DOS =
versions=20
5.0, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.22, and 7.5 (released with Windows 95). and also =
other=20
os's such as OS/2, OSR2, Linux, UNIX, and Macintosh. He presently owns 7 =
systems=20
doing highend video, graphics and animation.  This is his =
explanation as to=20
why </FONT></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2>why I don't =
have DOS on my=20
system.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">My thanks to =
</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">you Christian for your attempt =
to help me=20
find an MS-DOS solution but an MS-DOS window using F8 then 6 or shutdown =
and=20
restart in MS-DOS mode only gets you to a command prompt. I have OSR2 on =
my=20
present system (Second release of Windows 95). I once had a dual =
operating=20
system on my drive but it is not possible with OSR2. If you still have =
the older=20
Windows 95 it will work, but only if you install MS-DOS 6.22 (or other =
version).=20
First, copy the dos dir to another dir, install Windows 95 to a =
different dir=20
than Windows 3.1 or 3.11 Windows for Workgroups, edit the MS Dos.sys =
file from=20
the Windows 95 side (boot to Windows 95) add under options =
'BootMulti=3D1' and=20
'BootMenu=3D1'. Delete the dos dir and copy the contents of the saved =
dos back to=20
the original dos dir renaming 5 files that end in .exe to .old and that =
is it.=20
Two fully independent os's working on the same machine. The reason why =
OSR2=20
won't work with this setup is that it has a certain capabilities that =
the=20
Windows 95 or DOS os's don't have. DOS has a 2 Gb partition limitation. =
Windows=20
95 was released with DOS 7.5. Windows 95 sat atop of this DOS 7.5 so it =
too had=20
this 2 GB limitation. OSR2 is it's own os. NO DOS. This os allows one =
drive to=20
be partitioned at nearly any size. For instance, my drive C is 8 Gb. =
When you=20
goto fdisk (set up partitions) with OSR2 it asks if you want to enable =
large=20
disk support. This 8 Gb partition (drive c) is not recognized by any =
version of=20
DOS or previous versions of Windows 95. If I boot to a floppy,  =
drive c=20
does not even show up!! When I drop to a command prompt (it says ms-dos =
prompt=20
because it emulates a dos prompt) it is just that, a command prompt, not =
MS-Dos.=20
If you type ver at this command prompt you will see it still is Windows =
95 .=20
Fractint and some other programs require MS-DOS version 5.0, 6.0 ,6.1 =
,6.2, or=20
6.22 to run properly. The first version of Windows 95 placed atop of =
MS-DOS 7.5=20
also does not work with some programs. The only way to run fractint is =
to boot=20
to a DOS 6.22 formatted floppy. That is what I have to =
do.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman">Faye</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:41:37 -1000
From: "Shauna Jones" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) DOS on a floppy?

On 22 Jun 98 at 18:21, davides wrote:

> At 08:33 PM 6/21/1998 -0700, Faye Williams wrote:
>
> (snipped)
>
> >I don't have DOS on my computer.  I have DOS on a floppy that runs fractint
> >for me.
>
> (snipped)
>
> I am very puzzled by the above statement. I suspect what is intended is
> that you have Fractint 19.x (DOS version) as opposed to Winfract, and you
> have that copy of the program on a floppy - is that correct?

Well, he could be running OS/2, which can be installed
without DOS support, or Windows NT. Neither are DOS! <G>

Another blast of bits from David
Visit our not-so-boring web page: http://www.aloha.net/~shauna/
Visit the Hawaii Astronomical Society: http://www.hawastsoc.org/
For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast: mailto:[e-mail]

Random Thought for this Nanosecond
John F. Kennedy: Ask not what your operating system can do for you, ask what you can do for your operating system.



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:46:56 +0200 (MET DST)
From: [e-mail] (F.J. Slijkerman)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Version of FractInt with 3DNow! support?

> single precision floating-point numbers

That's of course enough for 3D applications and games -- but
for fractals it's still unusable. No one ever seems to care
about fractals :(

Regards,
Frederik.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 04:34:44 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: (fractint) 1 par (birds)

I found these two lovebirds and thought everyone should see them. :)
Enjoy~

Jim

*****************************************************************

Field_Grouse       { ; 0:03:05.97 75mhz 800x600
                     ; 6/22/98 image(c) JamesWeaver
  reset=1821 type=formula formulafile=fractint.frm
  formulaname=inandout02 function=asinh/cosxx passes=1
  center-mag=0/0/0.3/1/90 params=0.6650000000000001/0/0/0 float=y
  colors=000DDG<4>005332<17>zpa<12>UPFMJIEDLAAK<3>ALQAOSARUBUWBXY<6>DqlDtn\
  Cqm<2>BghAdg9`e8Yd7Vb<7>14RC6QO8OP9NQBM000000UFJVHI<7>zH0<8>SDF<4>L0KB8D\
  1H5<19>Q`5Sa6R`6<16>2I6IIAZJE<6>wgF<8>XKDUHDSGC<6>AB7000HIC<10>svcsvc<9>\
  VVLSSJPPHMMFKJD<6>200pdJ<5>zjF<13>RCCEEE<13>kki<12>FFI
  }


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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 06:07:50 -0400
From: davides <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) DOS on a floppy?

At 09:41 PM 6/22/1998 -1000, you wrote:
>
>Well, he could be running OS/2, which can be installed
>without DOS support, or Windows NT. Neither are DOS! <G>
>
But now we have the answer: DOS indeed on  a floppy :). Just, for some
reason, sounds odd to me, but so do most things... :)
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
Back up my hard drive?
How do I put it in reverse?

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:38:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Kaplan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fwd: Algorithms

Kragen wrote:

> It would be worthwhile to enhance fractint to support MPI or PVM,
> methinks.

Might as well work from the nice, clean XWindows source for this- I don't
think anyone will want the DOS features on a massively-parallel box! I
imagine that our original messager has considerable experience doing
ports to his box; given the source code, he might want to undertake the
project...


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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:32:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractint) DOS on a floppy??  YES!

On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Faye Williams wrote:
> <a rather unreadable message, due to a lousy email reader>

As far as I can see, what you're saying is that you can't run Fractint
in Win95 OSR2's DOS prompt -- whether you're in a DOS window or just
"booted in DOS mode" -- right?  What happens when you try it?

Kragen



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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:50:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: Re: (fractint) Fwd: Algorithms

On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Ian Kaplan wrote:
> > It would be worthwhile to enhance fractint to support MPI or PVM,
> > methinks.
>
> Might as well work from the nice, clean XWindows source for this

Praise the Lord and pass the compilers!

> - I don't
> think anyone will want the DOS features on a massively-parallel box!

It'd be nice to be able to use a DOS box to watch the fractals being
generated, change parameters, etc., given that the DOS UI is still a
lot nicer than the XFractint UI.  Also, it might be worthwhile to set
up a huge MP machine that can be used to render fractals for Sylvie
Gallet, Wizzle, Gumbycat, et al., while they sit at home running
Fractint on their little DOS boxes.

> I imagine that our original messager has considerable experience doing
> ports to his box; given the source code, he might want to undertake the
> project...

Agreed.

Kragen


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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:35:22 -0400
From: "RJ Corradino" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (fractint) DOS on a floppy??  YES!

I find this quite confusing.  I do have OSR2 running, and I tried out a ver
at the command prompt.  It does say Windows 95, not dos.  Neat.

Only weird thing is, Fractint runs fine for me.  Is this just a partitioning
thing then?  I'm on a 5.2 gig HD...

- -RJ



Faye wrote;
To Christian and Steve,
I forwarded this message to the computer expert here who set up my computer
and all the computers for my company.  He's an electronic engineer and a
computer technician.  He's been working
on computer for over 18 years from the old teletype in a sound proof room
through the Apple II, Apple II Plus, Commodore, IBM-PC, 286, 386, 486,
Pentium, Pentium Pro, Pentium MMX, and finally the Pentium II. He's also
worked with higher end systems such as SUN, SGI, VME, and SciTech. He's
worked with MS-DOS versions 5.0, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.22, and 7.5 (released with
Windows 95). and also other os's such as OS/2, OSR2, Linux, UNIX, and
Macintosh. He presently owns 7 systems doing highend video, graphics and
animation.  This is his explanation as to why why I don't have DOS on my
system.
My thanks to you Christian for your attempt to help me find an MS-DOS
solution but an MS-DOS window using F8 then 6 or shutdown and restart in
MS-DOS mode only gets you to a command prompt. I have OSR2 on my present
system (Second release of Windows 95). I once had a dual operating system on
my drive but it is not possible with OSR2. If you still have the older
Windows 95 it will work, but only if you install MS-DOS 6.22 (or other
version). First, copy the dos dir to another dir, install Windows 95 to a
different dir than Windows 3.1 or 3.11 Windows for Workgroups, edit the MS
Dos.sys file from the Windows 95 side (boot to Windows 95) add under options
'BootMulti=1' and 'BootMenu=1'. Delete the dos dir and copy the contents of
the saved dos back to the original dos dir renaming 5 files that end in .exe
to .old and that is it. Two fully independent os's working on the same
machine. The reason why OSR2 won't work with this setup is that it has a
certain capabilities that the Windows 95 or DOS os's don't have. DOS has a 2
Gb partition limitation. Windows 95 was released with DOS 7.5. Windows 95
sat atop of this DOS 7.5 so it too had this 2 GB limitation. OSR2 is it's
own os. NO DOS. This os allows one drive to be partitioned at nearly any
size. For instance, my drive C is 8 Gb. When you goto fdisk (set up
partitions) with OSR2 it asks if you want to enable large disk support. This
8 Gb partition (drive c) is not recognized by any version of DOS or previous
versions of Windows 95. If I boot to a floppy,  drive c does not even show
up!! When I drop to a command prompt (it says ms-dos prompt because it
emulates a dos prompt) it is just that, a command prompt, not MS-Dos. If you
type ver at this command prompt you will see it still is Windows 95 .
Fractint and some other programs require MS-DOS version 5.0, 6.0 ,6.1 ,6.2,
or 6.22 to run properly. The first version of Windows 95 placed atop of
MS-DOS 7.5 also does not work with some programs. The only way to run
fractint is to boot to a DOS 6.22 formatted floppy. That is what I have to
do.

Faye
[e-mail]



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:44:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail] (Kragen)
Subject: RE: (fractint) DOS on a floppy??  YES!

On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, RJ Corradino wrote:
> I find this quite confusing.  I do have OSR2 running, and I tried out a ver
> at the command prompt.  It does say Windows 95, not dos.  Neat.

After you shut down your computer, when it says "it is now safe to turn
off your computer", what happens if you type "mode co80" and hit
return?

Kragen


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End of fractint-digest V1 #240
******************************