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exotica-digest        Thursday, March 22 2001        Volume 02 : Number 934



In This Digest:

Re: (exotica) art vs. craft
(exotica)an avalanche of plastic
Re: (exotica) Intent and Dis(re)tortion
Re: (exotica) art vs. craft
(exotica) Soundtrack question
(exotica) test
Re: (exotica) art vs. craft
Re: (exotica) test
Re: (exotica) test
(exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
Re:(exotica)test
RE: (exotica) test
Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
(exotica) Musicians
Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
Re: (exotica) Vic Mizzy release on CD
Re: (exotica) film noir
(exotica) Capitalism
Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
Re: (exotica) Exotica in comic books EP Jacobs
Re: (exotica)an avalanche of plastic
Re: (exotica) test
Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
Re: (exotica) test
Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
(exotica) Shaggs
(exotica) Art
Re: (exotica) When Marionettes Attack
Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:07:38 -0500
From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) art vs. craft

At 12:20 PM 3/22/01 +0100, Moritz R wrote:

> I think I even understand why Steve feels uncomfortable with today's art.
because it feels free to define itself and by that opens doors for every
charlatan on the scene to step in.

I guess it's a nice quality of yours Moritz to try and understand his point
of view.  But don't bother.  He may agree with your point since he's all
about calling people names like "charlatan" but in the end, that's not what
this is about.
He has a precious and pure view of what constitutes art.  And he's wrong.

And here's why he's wrong.

I think it was Bergman who said this.  But what he said was that he didn't
feel like he was CREATING anything when he made one of his films.  He felt
like he was taking things that already existed, things that were already in
the world, bringing them back to his room and organizing them to present
back to the world.
There's way too much made of the word "create" as if things are being
conjured out of thin air.  Maybe somebody - some artist - thinks that's
what they're doing.  But they're not.  And any artist who thinks they are
is either 21 or way too proud of themselves.
Some people will tell you that a documentary film is less creative than a
drama.  And it's certainly easy to understand why they think that.  But
they're talking about bad documentaries.
At their best, a documentary is as "creative" as any other genre of
filmmaking.  Yes there's a difference between writing and directing your
elements and going out into the world and finding the proper elements.  But
if you believe what Bergman said, as I do, you realize that essentially
it's a difference without a distinction.
In both cases you're choosing elements and then organizing them for
presentation.
There's an old wives tale you still hear that says a documentary is 90% the
work of an editor.   And Steve tells us that an editor is a craftsperson,
not an artist.  This point of view he's promoting is nothing new though I
have to admit, I've seldom met a person who was so married to this idea.
It's a bit like the point of view that says "Art is something my 4 year old
COULDN'T have drawn".
People like Stephen want art to be something that is made by a select group
of people with very specific skills.  They want it to be something that
non-artists could never make. (Or "non-musicians").  If they think to
themselves "Oh anybody could have done that" then it's not art.
What they conveniently forget is that anybody DIDN'T do it.
It's unbelievable that someone could see a collage and go "I think I saw
that photo in a magazine once.  Therefore I could have made this".  But
they do.
It's not whether they were capable of making it or not. Of course they're
capable.    The only important distinction is whether they do it or not.
This distinction that people make between drama and documentary is repeated
in the way some people view a novelist vs. a non-fiction writer.
As someone who has written and directed dramatic films, directed a dramatic
film which I didn't write and made a documentary, I feel qualified to say
that they're all different in interesting ways but none is necessarily more
creative or artistic than the other.  I hate to "pull rank" like that but I
don't know any other way to emphasize the point.
I'm working on ideas now in both drama and documentary.  Yes they involve
different muscles but they're essentially the same thing.  It's all just me
trying to express myself with different tools and different kinds of elements.
I feel funny defending something as "art" because I really don't like the
word.  I don't like to elevate art over craft for the very reason that
people like Stephen will see a distinct line separating the two.
I guess it really does go back to God.  God creates something out of
nothing.  Being creative is like being God.  If you create using
"pre-existing" elements, that's not God-like.  It's human.  And therefore a
lesser act.
I don't believe that any human creates something out of nothing.  Every
word, idea, line of dialogue and plot twist that I'm supposed to be putting
into the script I'm avoiding by writing this post, comes from somewhere.
Right now it would be more fun to go across the street and interview Steve,
the world's angriest fry cook than to sit here and write dialogue for my
character Nat Kone, the protagonist of all my scripts.
Then again, I can write dialogue for Nat all day.  It's as easy as typing.
I'm doing it right now.
Art is about reflecting the world back to people so they can see it in a
different way.  Whether the elements were thought up in your own head (if
you believe that) or "sampled" from the world is ultimately irrelevant.
Errol Morris's "Thin Blue Line" and Chris Marker's "Sans Soleil" made me
see the world in new and different ways.  If that's not Art to you, call it
Sam.  It won't change what it is.

And with that, I really am finished.

AZ



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:11:42 -0500
From: Peter Gingerich <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica)an avalanche of plastic

I know this question gets bandied about on the list all the time,
BUT

how do folx out there all store your cds?

In the origional case on a bookshelf?

Or do you put them into a book, and if so....

do you jam all the notes and back cover in with the cd? Or put that stuff in
the slot next to the cd? (I've noticed the books never seem wide enough to
put in the back cover let alone the notes...) Or do you just put cd copies
into books? One big book, many different for genres? Chuck the cases? Save
boxes from box sets?

Most appreciated would be suggestions for brand//size (ie 300 slots) and
relative costs of books.....

Inquiring minds need to know.

pg- (in the mood for spring cleaning)



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:12:00 -0500
From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Intent and Dis(re)tortion

At 07:45 AM 3/22/01 -0500, buMp wrote:
>
>i realize this thread is boring the hell out of people so no more retorts
>from me.

Who cares?  They won't read; they won't post.
LOTS of things on this list bore the hell out of me, including tiki
discussions.
But I let them rant and they let me.

No?

AZ



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:18:25 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) art vs. craft

Is not woman the greatest artist! She is even greater than god, since
she loves her offspring ;)
Men are F R A N K E N S T E I N

Magnus





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:26:13 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Soundtrack question

RONALD STEIN

I usually get so involved in a movie that I forget to listen, that is
why i cant remember Les Baxters music to Black Sabbath and Black Sunday
that I saw on big screen some year ago. How about Ronald Stein? There
are two twofers available at Percepto:
THE HAUNTED PALACE / THE PREMATURE BURIAL
INVASION OF THE SAUCER MEN / IT CONQUERED THE WORLD
The last two films I have seen, Invasion... was a great film but for
the music, I cant remember.

Anyone care to talk about this?

Magnus



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:27:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Waugh <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) test

sorry for the clutternace, but trying to see if i've
been rubbed out of the book of life. posts not
showing, etc.

=====
"What I need is a shot of Drambuie and some clean sheets."

          - Jack Nance

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:52:50 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) art vs. craft

alan zweig schrieb:

>
> I guess it really does go back to God.  God creates something out of nothing.

That's absolutely impossible! ;-) At least this is as much as *we* can think. It only proves that our thinking must be fundamentally wrong.

We will probably never know how "he" did it.

Mo

- --
studio R
senses for a senseless world
http://moritzR.de
.........................................................................
n.e.u.
Thierschstrasse 43
D 80538 Munchen
Germany





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:12:16 -0500
From: Clayton Black <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) test

You're not rubbed out, Ben.  I wondered the same thing after my futile post
on how people feel about the "Parisian" genre, but now I figure I'm just
paying my dues on being ignored.
    By the way, Magnus, thanks for the Jacobs covers.  I've been a big
Tintin fan for a long time (even if he is about as overexposed in Europe as
Mickey Mouse), and though I don't read French, the Blake and Mortimer series
give me new inspiration to learn.

Clayton
>
> sorry for the clutternace, but trying to see if i've
> been rubbed out of the book of life. posts not
> showing, etc.



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:45:28 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) test

 Clayton wrote:

> You're not rubbed out, Ben.  I wondered the same thing after my
futile post
> on how people feel about the "Parisian" genre, but now I figure I'm
just
> paying my dues on being ignored.


I dont have a parisian genre lp, so I could not post.

I get ignored all the time, that doesnt worry me! If it would, I would
have stopped posting in 96. I just post to make my english, or rather
american english ((?) you decide...) better anyway :)


>     By the way, Magnus, thanks for the Jacobs covers.  I've been a big
> Tintin fan for a long time (even if he is about as overexposed in
Europe as
> Mickey Mouse), and though I don't read French, the Blake and Mortimer
> series
> give me new inspiration to learn.



Clayton, have you gotten the english/american Blake and Mortimers? I
would like to know how many that was released.

I have high hopes for the french Rayon U one, That cover blew me away.
I guess I'll just have to look at the pictures, and hope for a release
in danish or english someday, In sweden the original swedish releases
sell for 30-40 dollars now, I am glad I have them all allready. With
these french releases that I buyed yesterday I will have every Blake
and Mortimer album produced. That makes me a little sad. Just like when
Herge died and you knew there would never be a new adventure.

I had another deja vu today while reading a post from Marco, it
shouldnt be that often. Something is wrong.



- -e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g---i-s-
 http://www.bellybongo.com
- ----------T-I-K-I----------





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:06:11 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

How is the music from these tv serial? Is the TV serial actually that
great? (Five reviewers at amazon give it five stars, a top
rating). "Would Magnus like it?", he asked the exotica list hoping for
the answer "NO", since he has bought enough allready.








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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:19:51 -0500
From: Clayton Black <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:(exotica)test

> From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
> Reply-To: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:45:28 +0100 (CET)
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (exotica) test
>
> I dont have a parisian genre lp, so I could not post.

Sorry, I thought you said you didn't get the post.  Ignore that section of
my last note.

Clayton



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:20:03 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (exotica) test

citerar "Marco \"Kallie\" Kalnenek" <[e-mail]>:

> Hi Magnus,
>
> > I had another deja vu today while reading a post from Marco, it
> > shouldnt be that often. Something is wrong.
>
> What do you mean by that? I hope I didn't write something that
offended
> you.


No not at all buddy! :)
Deja Vu is the experience you get once and awhile when you feel you
have been through the exact thing before. Scientists cant give an
explanation to it, maybe the brain is disturbed by a smell, or a noise
that creates a little block out or something, or as I believe, that we
have lived this life forever and ever. The idea is to try to break the
circle, or... just to float along. My idea for the moment is just to
float along and try to get the most out of life as possible. Tomorrow
maybe I will try again to break the circle, but my earlier experiments
with that sure was painful. We are guarded by Mr Inbetween, or Tiki if
you want. "He" dont want us to know these things.




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:24:19 -0500
From: Clayton Black <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

> From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
> Reply-To: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:06:11 +0100 (CET)
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial
>
>
>
>
> How is the music from these tv serial? Is the TV serial actually that
> great? (Five reviewers at amazon give it five stars, a top
> rating). "Would Magnus like it?", he asked the exotica list hoping for
> the answer "NO", since he has bought enough allready.
>
I used to love this series, when it showed up (which was VERY irregularly).
Check out http://www.thunderbirdsonline.com/1100/

Clayton



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:28:53 -0600
From: Matt Marchese <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

Hi Magnus,

Asking a Thunderbirds fanatic like me whether or not any aspect of the show was
great will inevitably get you a "yes" answer!  The music that Barry Gray
orchestrated for Gerry Anderson's little Supermarionation extravaganzas is a
whole lot of fun -- dynamic, creative, exciting -- everything that good
adventure show music ought to be. The Thunderbirds show was for me, the holy
grail of television when I was a kid; great models, cool gear, a terrific
"secret" base, and of course, puppets that smoked cigarettes!

That being said, the music from Thunderbirds is not my favorite Barry Gray
score, it's a little too military for my tastes. I like his work on Stingray
and Joe 90 a lot more. The stuff he did for Stingray is particularly exotic.
Just listen to the Stingray theme with its duelling kettle drum and brass
section mixing it up with soaring background vocals and topped off with a
groovy lounge-style crooner.

I asked the online Magic 8-ball, "Would Magnus like it?"

http://8ball.federated.com/

The answer:

"You can rely on it"

Sorry!

Matt

Magnus Sandberg wrote:

> How is the music from these tv serial? Is the TV serial actually that
> great? (Five reviewers at amazon give it five stars, a top
> rating). "Would Magnus like it?", he asked the exotica list hoping for
> the answer "NO", since he has bought enough allready.

- --
Matt Marchese
"I've been havin' this nightmare.......a real swinger of a
nightmare, too." -Frank Sinatra (The Manchurian Candidate)
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*




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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:45:22 -0800
From: bigshot <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Musicians

I never thought that saying that a musician should be able
to play some sort of instrument would be so controversial!
Sorry if I made anybody cry.

See ya
Steve

      Stephen Worth
      [e-mail]

      The Web: http://www.spumco.com
      Usenet:  alt.animation.spumco
      Palace:  cartoonsforum.com:9994

      Spumco International
      1021 Grandview, 2nd Floor
      Glendale, CA 91201



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:38:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Bruce Lenkei <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

I just gotta say, while I'm sure the music is good, those damn puppets
were way too creepy for me as a kid. I know it sounds crazy, but I
still get freaked out by that show for some reason.

- - Bruce

++++++++++++++++++++

Lenkei Design
   Graphic Design

www.lenkeidesign.com

++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Visit The Exotica Review
As many exotica/lounge record reviews as possible!
on the web at:  www.bway.net/~er
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:03:48 +0100
From: edjunkita <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

Magnus Sandberg wrote:

> How is the music from these tv serial? Is the TV serial actually that
> great? (Five reviewers at amazon give it five stars, a top
> rating).

Can I give it six stars out of five? I watch(ed) them religiously.
Of course nowadays the marionet technique is outdated compared
to Spielberg style computer effects, but their stylishness has never
been equalled.

> "Would Magnus like it?", he asked the exotica list hoping for
> the answer "NO", since he has bought enough allready.

Would you believe there are actually people out there who didn't grow up
on the series and are somewhat indifferent towards it?




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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:46:28 -0600
From: Matt Marchese <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

Bruce Lenkei wrote:

> I just gotta say, while I'm sure the music is good, those damn puppets
> were way too creepy for me as a kid. I know it sounds crazy, but I
> still get freaked out by that show for some reason.

Yours was not an uncommon reaction. I know several people who found
Supermarionation to be "serious nightmare fuel" as Mike Nelson and the 'Bots
used to say.

Between the ages of 4 and 6, I was watching a lot of horror and SF films at the
same time that I was watching Thunderbirds. Compared to Grand Guignol
moviemaking like "Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte", those marionettes seemed pretty
harmless to me.


- --
Matt Marchese
"I've been havin' this nightmare.......a real swinger of a
nightmare, too." -Frank Sinatra (The Manchurian Candidate)
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*




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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:00:07 -0500
From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Vic Mizzy release on CD

At 07:54 PM 3/22/01 +0100, Magnus Sandberg wrote:
>
>VIC MIZZY - SUITES & THEMES
>CAPER OF THE GOLDEN BULLS,

If anyone wants to buy this on vinyl, contact moi.

AZ



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:20:35 -0500
From: "m.ace" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) film noir

I happened to catch "The Wild Bunch" the other night, and while I'm
certainly not going to say it *is* noir, the situation is classic noir: a
bunch of hard-bitten mugs plotting that last big job, but clearly destined
for doom. There's even noir vets in the cast: Robert Ryan, Edmond O'Brien
(unrecognizable as the crusty old coot, bet he enjoyed that role), William
Holden, maybe more?

Beating a music angle into this post, Jerry Fielding does the score,
combining effective orchestral sections with exotic (from Hollywood's
perspective) traditional Mexican music.

- ---

I'm curious... do you folks see Fritz Lang's "M" fitting into noir? Is it a
very early prototype, or is it just way too early to even think about that?

m.ace  [e-mail]
http://ookworld.com



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:05:51 -0800
From: bigshot <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Capitalism

exotica-digest wrote:

>But I understand what makes him mad. I guess in 75% of the cases it's the
>same things that make me mad. But I blame other reasons for it. For
>instance capitalism.

I think I blame laziness. People are just too impatient to express
themselves to take the time to learn the skill necessary to be
fluent. You have to learn a language before you can speak. Imagine
trying to get across the ideas in Hamlet using baby talk!

Today, even the Shaggs are considered art. I don't waste time with
"so bad it's good". I want to see and listen to things that are
the expression of someone with both ideas and skills. It also helps
to have a firm basis in and respect for the art that went before.

I like Chaikovsky... Oops! Tchaikovsky. There are plenty of cats
with chops in the Exotica realm too.

See ya
Steve

      Stephen Worth
      [e-mail]

      The Web: http://www.spumco.com
      Usenet:  alt.animation.spumco
      Palace:  cartoonsforum.com:9994

      Spumco International
      1021 Grandview, 2nd Floor
      Glendale, CA 91201



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:20:41 -0500
From: "m.ace" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

>I just gotta say, while I'm sure the music is good, those damn puppets
>were way too creepy for me as a kid. I know it sounds crazy, but I
>still get freaked out by that show for some reason.

Watching Anderson's inanimate actors does sometimes feel like watching
corpses on a string.

But still livelier than many Oscar nominees.

(sorry, best punchline I could come up with at the moment)

- --m.ace



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:21:50 -0500
From: "m.ace" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Exotica in comic books EP Jacobs

>Some of my favorite comics were made by a belgian called Edgar P
>Jacobs, he worked for Herge doing backgrounds in Tintin, until he
>created his own characters, Blake and Mortimer.

I have a couple of English-translated Blake & Mortimer books: "The Time
Trap" and "Atlantis Mystery". Catalan Communications published these
editions in the late 80s. These are vintage E.P. Jacobs stories. Love that
clear-line art style. The plots kind of strike me as roots material for Dr.
Who.

>In this album Mortimer is trapped in a timemachine, and fights
>dinosaurs (in the past) and fascists (In the future). An amazing view
>of our future with doomsday weapons and killer robots. It is available
>in english I think:

That sounds a lot like "The Time Trap". Does he start wearing a
pointy-headed helmet near the end? ["Yow, are we warping time yet?"]

The Comics Journal did a good little history of Jacobs and his work in an
issue back around the late 80s or early 90s.

Magnus, you might want to keep an eye out for the current Spanish artist,
Daniel Torres. He works in a similar style, with more of an art deco
flavor. He's done a series of adventures of "Rocco Vargas". Also does
illustration and design work, I think.

- --m.ace



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:27:04 -0500
From: "Domenic Ciccone" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica)an avalanche of plastic

>From: Peter Gingerich <[e-mail]>
>
>I know this question gets bandied about on the list all the time,
>BUT
>
>how do folx out there all store your cds?


OK with out looking at the other posts.

I use the big 200/400 case logic for CDr's but usually put most of my CD's
and the artwork in a "double pocket CD sleeve" that also holds what they
call the "J" card. I get them from Bags Unlimited. (toll free 800 767 bags)
http://www.bagsunlimited.com/
CAT # SCDDPJ. I can usually fit hundreds of CDs in a suitcase. Great for
lugging disks to the studio.

Gotta order more!

Domenic Ciccone
Martinis with Mancini WJUL 91.5 Friday's 6-9AM
http://www.geocities.com/martinimancini/
http://wjul.cs.uml.edu/listen.html

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:38:38 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) test

In a message dated 3/22/1 3:12:48 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

>I wondered the same thing after my futile post
>on how people feel about the "Parisian" genre, but now I figure I'm just
>paying my dues on being ignored.

its not being ignored, its being consumed   and processed....JB/just throw it
out there..ALSO enjoy the art vs craft debate


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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:38:40 -0600
From: Matt Marchese <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

"m.ace" wrote:

> Watching Anderson's inanimate actors does sometimes feel like watching
> corpses on a string.
>
> But still livelier than many Oscar nominees.

Had the movie "Thunderbirds Are Go" by some miracle received an Oscar
nomination back in 1968, we would've had an excellent opportunity to contrast
and compare. I'm not just flailing my little wooden arms here. I had the
opportunity to watch this again last year and was surprised by how good it was
- -- far better than some of the crap that's been nominated this year.

The dream sequence that features Supermarionated members of the Shadows backing
up Cliff Richard is great stuff.

- --
Matt Marchese
"I've been havin' this nightmare.......a real swinger of a
nightmare, too." -Frank Sinatra (The Manchurian Candidate)
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*




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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:41:32 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) test

In a message dated 3/22/1 4:20:36 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

>Deja Vu is the experience you get once and awhile when you feel you
>have been through the exact thing before.

Yogi Berra said it best: "Its like deja-vu all over again."

Yogi Berra on a hot new restaurant in Manhattan: "That place got so popular
    nobody goes there anymore."


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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:19:00 -0500
From: "m.ace" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

>Had the movie "Thunderbirds Are Go" by some miracle received an Oscar
>nomination back in 1968, we would've had an excellent opportunity to contrast
>and compare.
>
>The dream sequence that features Supermarionated members of the Shadows
>backing
>up Cliff Richard is great stuff.

Yes indeedy!

The weird thing is that when Turner showed it on one of their channels a
few years back, it was flagged at the start as "edited for content"! What
on earth did they cut? I thought the legendary smoking scenes might be
clipped, but no, they were there. What the heck was it? Hanky panky with
Lady Penelope and the boys?

- --m.ace



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:41:29 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (exotica) Shaggs

In a message dated 3/22/01 4:00:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Today, even the Shaggs are considered art. I don't waste time with
 "so bad it's good". I want to see and listen to things that are
 the expression of someone with both ideas and skills. It also helps
 to have a firm basis in and respect for the art that went before. >>

Personally I'll take the Shaggs over most of the "chops-over-feeling" folks
anyday, but maybe that's just me... (and below you start the flames, I said
most, not all....)
And maybe I missed this thread, but would Warhol be considered art then?

- -DavidH


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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:36:42 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (exotica) Art

I thought I'd present some of my opinions on the 'what is art' question,
rather than simplying submitting some quote from Gilligan again.

It is so easy to think of art as residing along some staright parallel
line, with artists residing on one end of the line and non-artists on
the other.  Then defining an artist is simply a matter of placing the
dividing line at the appropriate location between the two extremes.

But I can think of at least three ways of defining that line...

1) skilled versus unskilled - On the 'non-artist' end would be the
people who have never picked up a musical instrument in their lives.  On
the opposite 'artist' end would be the Eric Claptons, the Jimi
Hendrixes, the acclaimed masters of their craft. There will be various
schools of thought as to what skills place a person in the 'technically
proficient master ' area ( is it schooling at Julliard?, 40 years of
performing on the road and the ability to improvise with a wide
diversity of musical groups?  learning all the skills with DJ'ing (both
technical record sampling skills and antcipating the flow and feel of
the crowd)

2) Then there are the types who want to identify themselves as 'artists'
versus being willing to simply identify oneself as an accountant, a
waitress, or any occupation which are seen as generally uncreative.
This aspect of 'artsitry' is more simply a matter of willpower ---' i
want to be an artist, so that is what I am', and then seeks to
fiefferentaite themself from the more traditional roles.   The artist
here may be a painter who is highly unskilled, but still makes the
effort to take his/her canvases out into some scenic location every
weekend so he/she can paint.  Or it can be the person who is dedicated
to waking up early and writing 4 hours every morning.   These people
maty end up eventually as skilled artists, or their work may remain at a
mediocre level.

   The tendency may be to slight and put down these probably untrained
artists, but I feel they perform an important role.  Its important for
every community and every group to have artists , to show that art is a
possible choice to persue, and not simply a skill that the Gods blesses
upon the Eric Claptons in the world.  It is important for people to feel
that they themselves can create art.  The world would be a much sadder
place if these 'artists' did not exist, if the only option was to follow
the business leader/ sports hero / righteous model of the proper way.

3) Then there are what I call the true artists --- the people who see
the world in new visionary ways that nobody has ever thought of before.
It might be Louis Armstrong with his scat singing ..... it might be Andy
Warhol with his Campbell soup can painting.   This definition can be
associated with discoverers/inventors -- as the first people who tried
doing something in a completely new way.

The opposite of this type would be a person who simply seeks to
duplicate what has been done before. Somebody might be a very
accomplished guitarist, and recognized for his skills, but if he ends up
playing exactly in the style that Eric Clapton has played in the past,
and is simply trying to copycat him, then has anything new really been
done?? (other than it being nice to have nice accomplished musicians
around to brighten our dreary worlds)  Another example would be the
amateur artists who buy the 'How to paint' books and whose goal is to
have their work mistaken as an original by some other well-known artist.

Of course, the best artists may be those who overlap all three areas
..... they are highly skilled in their chosen area, they venture off
into new directions unthought of before, plus they choose to pursue
their role through the hardships and tough years.

That's all for now ....
Simply adding more meanders to the glorious flow of the river

Vern





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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:10:57 -0600
From: Matt Marchese <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) When Marionettes Attack

"m.ace" wrote:

> The weird thing is that when Turner showed it on one of their channels a few
> years back, it was flagged at the start as "edited for content"! What on earth
> did they cut? I thought the legendary smoking scenes might be clipped, but no,
> they were there.

I don't know for sure, but when Fox reran the show briefly on Saturday morning a
few years back (cut to 23 mins/episode with a horrible techno soundtrack no less),
they not only axed the smoking, but they also whacked any scene that hinted at
Tin-Tin and Kyrano's subservient relationship to the Tracy family.

As I recall, Turner was also in a PC-editing frenzy around this time, redubbing
Tom and Jerry cartoons to eliminate racial overtones and hacking at Looney Tunes
to rid them of disturbing scenes of gratuitous Wile E. Coyote abuse.

> What the heck was it? Hanky panky with Lady Penelope and the boys?

Or even more disturbing...Parker. "Oh *yessss*, m'lady!"

- --
Matt
P.S. I almost died laughing when Lady Penelope made a cameo appearance in an
episode of Absolutely Fabulous.



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:24:26 -0800
From: "basic hip" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Thunderbirds puppet tv serial

> How is the music from these tv serial? Is the TV serial actually that
> great? (Five reviewers at amazon give it five stars, a top
> rating). "Would Magnus like it?", he asked the exotica list hoping for
> the answer "NO", since he has bought enough allready.

Sure, Magnus would like it!  The TV series is terrific - at least for
anybody that grew up in the sixties with Supercar, Lady Penelope, Stingray,
Captain Scarlet and the rest of the Supermarionation gang.

And Barry Gray's music is terrific too!  Much later came "Space:1999".
Earlier there was "The Adventures of Twizzle" and "Torchy The Battery Boy".

what CD's are you considering?  There is "No Strings Attached", which also
came as a 10 inch, I recall.  Then there were all these very cool little UK
Century 21 Mini Albums which leaned more toward dialoge from episodes.
Beautiful picture sleeves on these.  then there are the various CD
compilations that include the themes, but other than that I don't think
there is much out there, is there?

But thanks to Fanderson, the offical Gerry Anderson Appreciation Society,
there an incredible Original Television Soundtrack to both Supercar and
Fireball XL5 available as one disc.

It's without a doubt my most treasured CD - 52 tracks of themes, library and
incidental music.  Excellant quality.  Many tracks less than a minute with
others in the 3:00 minute range.  Each tracks' use fully described in the
booklet as well as musicians credits and recording dates.  These dates range
from 1960 - 1963.

I learned of this CD a couple of years ago when I saw it going for big bucks
on ebay.  I searched and searched for it and finally ran across what is
supposedly the ONLY place to get it.  Fanderson.  Once I found the site, I
had to join the society to be able to make a purchase - all their stuff is
available for members only.  :(

So I cheerfully coughed up the $25 bucks to join and bought two.  Kept one,
sold a sealed one on ebay and recoverd all my dough and then some.

Neat story, huh?  :)

here are both sides of the CD booklet:

http://www.basichip.com/covers/supercar.jpg

http://www.basichip.com/covers/fireball.jpg

and here are 8 downloadable samples.  All are in the 400-700 KB file size
range and run about a minute, so download times should move right along.
Cable and DSL subscribers will have em in a blink of an eye.

SUPERCAR
"Supercar" (Series One Title Song)
performed by Mike Sammes of the Mike Sammes Singers  Yea!
original version of the title song
http://www.basichip.com/sounds/01.mp3

"Here Comes Supercar"
commonly used library track usually heard as Supercar flies to her
destination
http://www.basichip.com/sounds/05.mp3

"Dr. Horatio Beaker"
first heard in "Rescue" as Dr. Beaker decides to heat test Supercar's rocket
outlet ceramic
http://www.basichip.com/sounds/06.mp3

"Zizi's Song"
performed by Sylvia Anderson (Gerry's wife)
Zizi is accompanied by Dr. Beaker on his amazing Beakette organ for a
performance at Mike Mercury's birthday party
http://www.basichip.com/sounds/10.mp3

FIREBALL XL5
"Aphro's Theme"
on a remote volcanic planet, Steve meets Aphros, Queen of the Space Amazons
http://www.basichip.com/sounds/35.mp3

"Formula 5"
cool jazz instro first heard when Steve and Venus have coffee at the beach
house
http://www.basichip.com/sounds/41.mp3

"XL5 In Pursuit"
often heard accompanying XL5's travels in space
http://www.basichip.com/sounds/46.mp3

"Fireball" (TV21 version)
performed by Ken Barrie
alternative version of the series' closing titles recorded in 1965
http://www.basichip.com/sounds/52.mp3

Here's a link to the Fanderson site:

http://www.kikgraphics.demon.co.uk/fanderson.html







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End of exotica-digest V2 #934
*****************************