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exotica-digest        Thursday, March 22 2001        Volume 02 : Number 933



In This Digest:

(exotica) That record store...
Re: (exotica) Re: film noir
(exotica) Las Vegas Alert/Finds
Re: (exotica) Intent and Distortion
(exotica) Exotica in comic books EP Jacobs
Re: (exotica) Process and Product
Re: (exotica) Re: film noir
Re: (exotica) Marcos Valle Live
(exotica) Mute (was: Holger Hiller)
(exotica) art vs. craft???
Re: (exotica) art vs. craft???
Re: (exotica) Intent and Dis(re)tortion
Re: (exotica) Intent and Distortion
Re: (exotica) art vs. craft???
(exotica) Ebb and Andy?
Re: (exotica) Lest we forget!.......(Lenny Dee)
Re: Re: (exotica) Intent and Distortion
(exotica) Le Boo Boo
Re: (exotica) Coasters on Blow Up A Go-Go
(exotica) Vic Mizzy release on CD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:45:44 -0500
From: "Brian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) That record store...

I followed Moritz's  request through today and visited that store I talked
about. I have to report it as I suspect there are places like it in many
other cities. I hadn't been in it for several years and its never been an
inviting place, but the best stores I've been in have never been known for
ambiance, they have that ceretain "record store" charm... Lots of character
here to be sure...
I did return to talk about it but honestly, it's worthy of a documentary or
horror film depending on how you see it!

It's a dark, cold, and dingy space. The owner was having a steady
conversation with himself behind the counter. In spite of it being almost 3
times the size of the largest store in town, the space resembled the
basement of some of the record collectors in Alan's film, as in there is no
room to walk without tripping. Everything is piled up, records are in 6 foot
high piles, under magazines, against the wall, slid under shelves, on the
floor, everyhere!  I figure to go through every record in the store would
take at least 5 days or more, assuming you could find them. All that appears
to sell are posters or Porn DVD's. Even the porn magazines and videos are a
mess.

I walked around not knowing where or how to start and trying to figure out
how the place works, or at least once worked, under the layers.  I gave up
and decided to talk to the owner.

I say:
"So how does it work with the vinyl"
He says:
"What do you mean?"
I say:
"Well, how's it priced?"
He says
Depends what you want, prices are mostly marked"
I say (politely):
"How do you find anything?"
He says:
"Well we have to organize the place in May, we're planning to move across
the street to bigger premises"
I think:
"Never happening, my friend"
He says:
"So what are you looking for?"
I say:
"I don't know, say 60's soundtracks"
He says:
"Well we have 3,000 soundtracks, I just counted them last week"
I think:
"This guy is out of his mind, he hasn't looked through any of this 20
years."
He says:
"Lots of people come here from all over the world. Had a guy from France
yesterday that spent the day here.You have to be prepared to spend time
looking"
I think:
"That may explain the mess...."
I say (politely):
"I think I'll have to come back when I have more time"

I figure there may be some good records there, in fact I passed by a copy of
the Shaft soundtrack, beat up though, in one of the many piles. But most of
these records have price tags of $9.99 - $29.99 on them and that includes
the Rod Stewart LPs! I figure you spend the day(s) going through the store
and he takes the records and decides how much he charges, with the price
contingent on your level of interest. And that's assuming the little green
men aren't in that day to distract him... I think the pricing strategy is
the reason there is so much left but I'm not convinced that its that much of
a goldmine. I'll leave this one for your return visit Moritz... It's too
much even for me to take on! Alan, I think a sequel too you film is in
order: Record Store owners...

Brian



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:07:07 -0500
From: "Brian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Re: film noir

Alan wrote:

> Yeah see, I don't like Fassbinder either.  I respect him.  But he doesn't
> connect with me where I live.  And I always thought he should have paid
> me to watch "The Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant".
You're taslking to someone that 's seen at least half his output, and we're
talking an output of almost 100 films.  That includes multiple sittings of
the epic Berlin Alexanderplatz... with that totally bizarre epilogue that's
reminiscent of classic Jodorowsky!

> What is "weird" music?
> I guess when I see OR hear "weird" stuff, I always feel like it's a tad
> self-conscious. That's a weak accusation since there's probably stuff I
love > which is also self-conscious.  But weird stuff always makes me think
they're > going "Look at us, we're being weird".
I remember having this same discussion a while back where it was concluded
that the people who intentionally try to be weird/funny are never as
successful  as those that were trying to be serious but somehow just didin't
get it, like say Lucia Pamela.  I always wondered how Mrs Miller fit in? But
I think there's a danger generalizing as it implies you can't ever
intentionally be weird/funny unless you don't try.  The Residents were funny
at first, less so these days. And language can add to the fun.. If you ever
heard Johhny Cash singing I walk the Line in German it souds VERY weird at
least to me. Still there comes a point, as you say, where it becomes tired.
I found Frank Zappa reached that point long ago as did Dr. Demento.
Interesting topic...

> That doesn't apply to Fassbinder.  I just think he was dancing to a
drummer
> I couldn't dance to. It's true of all the famous Germans actually. I loved
> middle period Wenders and early Herzog.  But he shouldn't have stopped >
working with Bruno S. or whatever that Wild Man Fischer clone was
> called.
You mean Klaus Kinski probably.  I don't think Bruno Ganz qualifies as a
Wild Man Fischer clone... This whole New German film movement lost its drive
with many of its star directors making questionable hollywood product.
Fassbinder died before this and his last film, Querelle, could hardly be
called mainstream... yet in spite of it, when these people made the films
they wanted, there was no shortage of brilliance, best of those being
Wenders' -Wings of Desire which is relatively recent in comparison.

Brian



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:39:44 -0500
From: Peter Ledebur <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Las Vegas Alert/Finds

Hi everybody -- I'm a long-time lister, infrequent poster. I just wanted to
pass along a heads up.

I just got back from my vacation in Vegas (I like that place better every
time I visit). There's a record store on S. Maryland right by the UNLV
campus called Balcony Lights and in the half hour I was there browsing
their used record section, I saw one record priced at $2.99, all the rest
were $1.99 or $.99. And as if that wasn't enough, they were having a 50%
off sale. So I got a really nice stack of records at thrift store prices,
most in way better condition than one could hope for from a thrift. I like
to think of it as Thrift Store Plus.

I tell you people about this on only one condition -- DON'T LET ME KNOW
WHAT YOU FIND THERE!! I skipped over a lot of bins because of time
restraints and I'd rather *not* know what I missed.

Please keep in mind that I haven't had time for anything other than a
cusory listen to these records. I reserve the right to radically re-think
my opinions!

Kai Winding - Soul Surfin' (Verve)
   I laughed because this was filed in the Surf section, knowing Kai
Winding plays trombone, but it turns out to be more appropriate than I
thought. It's sort of Big Band Surf. Kenny Burrell is the featured
guitarist (though I swear I heard Vinnie Bell in there, too) and it was
arranged by Claus Ogerman. The only surf standard on here is Pipeline.
(Unless you consider Sukiyaki a surf standard. No, I didn't think you did.)
Some of the originals are really great, like Spinner (mellow with nice
slide guitar) and Surf Bird (no connection to Surfin' Bird). And I think I
heard a Clavioline on at least one of the tracks. There were two copies of
this one so if you hurry, you can probably score the other.

Eydie Gorme - Blame It on the Bossa Nova (Columbia)
   Really nice mellow bossas with big white bread pop arrangements. She's
not the *best* singer, but manages to pull it off well. Musicians include
Dick Hyman, Clark Terry, Johnny Pacheco, Mundell Lowe, and Al Caiola.

Franck Porcel - James Bond's Greatest Hits (Paramount)
   Early '70s record (Roger Moore on the cover) mixes themes (You Only Live
Twice, Goldfinger) with other parts of the scores (Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang,
007). A bit too '70s-orchestral for my tastes, but worth keeping, for now.

Bud Shank - Magical Mystery (World Pacific)
   One side is all versions of songs from Magical Mystery Tour, the other
includes covers of the Association, as well as Bacharach/David. Really
great. You know, one of my "gateway drugs" into the kind of music we
discuss on this list (well, *you* discuss, I just read along at home) was
buying EZ covers of Beatles songs. I never thought I'd get a version of
"Flying" or "Blue Jay Way," let alone on the same record!

Vinnie Bell - Good Morning Starshine (Decca)
   Maybe not as great as one would hope, and not in pristine condition, but
I was more than happy to pick this one up for a buck.

v/a - !Wild! Stereo Drums (Capitol)
   This comp features a wide variety of tracks, including two from Les
Baxter. Some tracks highlight the drums, while some are nothing but. The
other artists are Pepe Dominguin, The Drum Brigade, Dick Harrell, and Billy
May.

Earl Grant - Beyond the Reef (Decca)
   I'm a big fan of his organ work, and this LP includes a fun version of
Yellow Bird.

Chilo Moran - Acapulco Brass y sus Trompetas Electronicas (Musart)
  The expected Tijuana-be sound, includes Mirando a las Muchachas (Music to
Watch Girls By). Who coined that term, Tijuana-be? I know it was someone on
this list; please refresh my memory.

Henry Jerome - Brazen Brass Goes Latin! (Decca)
   Pretty much what one would expect. Mostly standards of the genre (Cherry
Pink..., Brazil, Peanut Vendor, Mambo No.5). Good, not essential.

Dick Schory - Stereo Action Goes Broadway (RCA Victor)
   Maybe not the best of the Stereo Action series, but this turned out to
be far better than I had expected. That's something this broad genre of
music (exotica-list fare) has done for me -- I never used to like show
tunes at all, but thanks to all the great versions I've actually grown to
appreciate, and in some cases *love* the songs! I'm still not into the
actual musicals, however.

Bay Big Band - Big Sounds (Omega)
   This one I bought for the cover. I have Francis Bay's Viva! album, and
enjoy it immensely, but pegged this one as more "jazz" than I am interested
in. The album was recorded at the Brussels World's Fair so the cover is a
great pic of a man from behind with arms spread wide (in surprise? awe?
delight?) in front of the Atomium. It almost looks like he could be
conducting, except no band is visible and his hands are empty.

And the most "exotic" of the bunch:

Modesto Duran - Fabulous Rhythms of Modesto (Raynote)
   The sleeve was falling apart (despite all the masking tape on it) and
the vinyl had seen far better days, but for 50 cents the cover was worth
it. Then upon closer inspection, I discovered (by cleverly reading the
liner notes) that Sr. Duran had played with a number of heavy-hitters
including Perez Prado, Earth Kitt, and none other than Juan Garcia Exquivel
himself. Also, Mongo Santamaria and Willie Bobo both play "congo" on the
album. Then it turned out that the record itself sounded awful good. very
much Afro-Cuban with lots of percussion.

I'll try to get scans of the last two albums up in the next day or so.
Check
   www.hifibliss.com/mfbl/scans/


OK, this is way more than I've written to the list in a really long time,
so it's back to lurking for me.


Peter Ledebur
- ---
Music for Better Living
Wed. 6-7pm -- WZBC 90.3fm Newton/Boston
www.hifibliss.com/mfbl/
zbconline.com     <--- live streaming audio, even





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:54:34 +0100
From: Edward Milhuisen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Intent and Distortion

bigshot wrote:

> Martin Denny created songs, performed them and even approved of the
> mix and production of his records. He chose how his music would be
> presented.

Maybe, but did those birds approve of him stealing their birdcalls? ;-)

What about using classical music in films and cartoons?
I bet Chaikovsky never intended or approved his music to be used on the
Ren & Stimpy show. Does that make the cartoon lose it's value?

> What if someone took your sampled song and added lyrics to it
> talking about how much they love Jesus. Then they performed it
> on TV, calling it their own.

I'm eagerly awaiting the occasion!

> Someone mentioned that two
> records used the same sample. How can the one who used the sample
> first be mad? It's not their music to claim ownership of!

Nothing to do with ownership, just being the first to do something.
The original artist was the first to create the original sound.
The first sampler was the first to take the sound and find a new context
for it. (a totally different act than what original artist did)
The second sampler was just copying the first sampler, adding nothing
new. Unless he plays the sample backwards, pitches it down 3 octaves,
plays it through some distortion and still makes something groovy out
of it: Respect!

> >it should and does serve almost everything, music, literature,
> >film etc. editing is not just what to extract, it is also
> >deciding on what to put together.
>
> Right. But editing isn't content.

You keep failing to see that it's not just the seperate elements
that make an artwork. Their interrelationship gives the artwork it's
meaning.

The sum = much more than the individual parts

If you rearrange the elements (=editing), the artwork becomes something
different, something new and therefore you have performed a
creative act.

And art is not just a static collection of separate pieces,  but a dialogue
with
action and reaction. That's what keeps it alive. But in able to react to
something you have to refer to it somehow, by using some of it's elements.
Just like your Spumco cartoons have references to lets say Warner Brothers
cartoons. And how the reference is actually made is of lesser importance, it's
just
a handle. Progress can only be made by maklng use of other peoples labor.
Imagine if every generation had to reinvent the wheel (or huge eyeballs with
lots
of veins on them) all over again!

> Art is all about content.
> Editing merely presents content concisely, the same way that
> proper lighting makes a painting more beautiful in a
> museum.

I'm sitting on my fingers trying not to react!
Are you just provoking us, Steve?

> >it takes more than editing as well, you still need a good ear
> >to collect your sounds.
>
> Exactly, just like a DJ programs his radio show. But a DJ
> isn't creating the music he spins, he is just presenting it.

(Ahum, obviously you never listened to my radioshow...)

> >unless you are somekind of Art Fascist?
>
> I believe that art is the combination of personal expression
> and artistic skill. Is that fascist?

No, just being moralistic. And morals and esthetic rules are simply
irrelevant in art (like it or not...)







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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:32:15 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Exotica in comic books EP Jacobs

Some of my favorite comics were made by a belgian called Edgar P
Jacobs, he worked for Herge doing backgrounds in Tintin, until he
created his own characters, Blake and Mortimer. He made about ten
albums, most of them would fit in the science fiction genre. I did not
like the adventures that much when I was a child, since there are very
little humour in them, and I was a fan of Tintin. But over the years my
taste have changed and I now find them extremely attractive, wonderful
images with a lot fifties atmosphere, and a "serious" approach, which I
like. Exotica comes to mind actually since most albums feature
something unknown BUT! It is a boys room world from that era, where
women is around to serve food, and romance and sex doesnt exist. It
would have been great if the stories also had involved femme fatales,
but you cant get everything.

Mortimer is a scientist, and Blake something of a man working for the
secret service. Their base is London. In most of the albums they fight
Olrik, an Errol Flynn lookalike who always are up to things really bad.
Some days ago I ordered 4 albums from Denmark that is not available in
Sweden, two of them made after Jacobs death, by other artists, and it
is clear that the feeling of Blake and Mortimer is still there. The new
albums (made in the 90s) take place in cold war england in the fifties.
The wild imagination of Jacobs is missing though. Still I was very
pleased with these "new" Blake and Mortimer and are hoping for more
albums of that caliber in the future.



In this album Mortimer is trapped in a timemachine, and fights
dinosaurs (in the past) and fashists (In the future). An amazing view
of our future with doomsday weapons and killer robots. It is available
in english I think:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/287097020X.08.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

"La Marque Jaune" This is by far the greatest of the albums, a mad
scientist uses Olrik the evil nemesis as a guinea pig, to perform acts
of violence. It is available in english, I think:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/2870970102.08.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Here's the tiki infected cover of "Rayon U" I have just ordered this is
french, since it is not available in english, swedish or danish:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/2870970234.08.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

More on Balke and Mortimer, in french and portuguese:
http://blake.citeweb.net/


- -e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g---i-s-
 http://www.bellybongo.com
- ----------T-I-K-I----------





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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:42:21 +0100
From: Edward Milhuisen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Process and Product

bigshot wrote:

> I just don't consider editing an art unto itself. It's
> possible with skillful craftsmanship to create an "illusion of
> art".

art IS illusion...the suspension of disbelief.

> Cleverly juggling around snippets of music or film may be
> amusing and impressive as craft, but ultimately, it's a pretty
> empty pursuit for an artist. A real artist creates, he doesn't
> repackage.

But EVERYTHING on this earth is in a dynamic process of constant
repackaging!  A real artist's paint comes from chemicals which
the paint factory has repackaged for him. He in his turn takes the
paint from his tube and repackages it on canvas...A person
who views the painting repackages the blobs of paint on the
canvas into an a sequence of neural activity, ad infinitum.
There's no difference between paint and soundsnippets,

> "Choosing" isn't an art. "Creating" is art. An artist may have
> influences, but he isn't just assembling references, he's using
> them as a springboard for his own performance. In an earlier
> post, you mentioned collage as an art... It isn't an art. Picasso
> and Braque didn't just do collages and call them art. They were
> applying collage TO their art. That is using a craft to support
> art.

A musician may use samples, but he isn't just assembling other peoples
sound, he is using samples as a springboard for his own performance.
Musicians are applying sampling TO their music. That is  using a craft
to support music.

I think this discussion has gotten to the point where it's nothing more
than pure semantics.

> A musician should be able to play a musical instrument. If he
> can't he's an engineer. Isn't that pretty self-evident?

Nope. In our post modern society all such boundaries are pretty much
becoming history.

> A musician who can't play an instrument and creates his own "art"
> by cannibalizing the music of others is the exact same thing as a
> "creative" producer.

Hey, cannibals have their own important role in the foodchain like every
other organism!






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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:20:14 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Re: film noir

Brian schrieb:

> If you ever
> heard Johhny Cash singing I walk the Line in German it souds VERY weird at
> least to me.

:-) to me it sounds just plain cute, really.

>  But he shouldn't have stopped > working with Bruno S. or whatever that Wild Man Fischer clone was called.
> You mean Klaus Kinski probably.  I don't think Bruno Ganz qualifies as a
> Wild Man Fischer clone...

It's strange: As different as these subjects we currently discuss sound: Mute, art, German film... I think they all have the same problems today:over-conceptionalistion on cost of humor. Too much "serious" "theater", too little pop. Too "tough", not easy enough. Actually, the more I think about it, the concept of Neo-Easy Listening is more revolutionary than I ever thought. But try to explain that to art people or filmmakers of the kind of Herzog etc. ... no way they understand!

Mo

- --
studio R
senses for a senseless world
http://moritzR.de
.........................................................................
n.e.u.
Thierschstrasse 43
D 80538 Munchen
Germany




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:20:20 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Marcos Valle Live

[e-mail] schrieb:

> Yesterday the legendary Marcos Valle, who looked pretty good for his 57
> years, was in town live onstage at the Atomic Cafe. ... So
> take the chance to see him live, or book him at your club/for your party
>

Sh....! I knew it was a mistake to go to that birthday party yesterday instead of going to Valle.
Damn damn damn!

Mo

- --
studio R
senses for a senseless world
http://moritzR.de
.........................................................................
n.e.u.
Thierschstrasse 43
D 80538 Munchen
Germany




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:20:17 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Mute (was: Holger Hiller)

Brian schrieb:

>
> For me part of the problem remained not knowing where the label fit after
> the new wave ended.

that's true. they have gone a bit too far into this noisy neo teutonic concept art scene for my taste. Where's the silly pop fun of Silicon Teens today? Or gay disco like the Communards? It has all become so dead serious.

Mo


- --
studio R
senses for a senseless world
http://moritzR.de
.........................................................................
n.e.u.
Thierschstrasse 43
D 80538 Munchen
Germany




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:20:24 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) art vs. craft???

alan zweig schrieb:

>
> Mr. bigshot only likes art.  He doesn't waste his time with craft.
> Because craft isn't art.

No I don't think that's what he meant. Rather the opposite: art is only good if it is based on "skills" i.e. craft. I *think* that's what he meant.

So what is art? I guess since 100 years art doesn't want to be defined any more. And before, it didn't have to be defined, because it was clear what it was: it was craft. I think I even understand why Steve feels uncomfortable with today's art. because it feels free to define itself and by that opens doors for every charlatan on the scene to step in. maybe the charlatans have even taken over the scene. they control the white cubes, they control the art press. I know how it is.

Still I don't see a point in attacking the freedom of art and making rules. making rules in art can only lead to contradictions.  Freedom is the duty of art today. maybe that's because what once was done by handicraft is now done by technology. When photography was invented, painting obviously lost a lot of its businesses. At that point painting became free. A painter didn't have to dublicate reality, s/he could paint phantasies, abstract or whatever. It was good. It was a progress for the human mind.

But this is a long time ago. All avantgarde concepts are dead now. They have no answers for the future. but the avantgardists control the art scene. they don't understand exotica. they don't understand tiki. that can make one mad. but as OK as it is to fight against these people, it would be a mistake to throw out the baby with the bathwater and go back to the thinking of the times before the avantgarde. We can only go further and I didn't read much about that in Steve's theories.

But I understand what makes him mad. I guess in 75% of the cases it's the same things that make me mad. But I blame other reasons for it. For instance capitalism. I think that capitalist freedom has made the word freedom problematic. I think it's there, where one has to dig, if s/he wants to find out what's wrong with art today. And now I'm finally arriving on far-off-topic ground.

Mo


- --
studio R
senses for a senseless world
http://moritzR.de
.........................................................................
n.e.u.
Thierschstrasse 43
D 80538 Munchen
Germany




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:12:20 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) art vs. craft???

Its so easy but I cant define it. Humour is absolutely necessary, but
also the dark. It must have something hidden in it, a mystery. The
thing that the leading "experts" call art leaves me cold. I find most
of my kind of art in popular media. And it doesnt have to be well
crafted either. An originality. Or an obsession. Sexuality has been my
worry in life, it did not come natural for me like for most either, it
made me evil. But I like sexual art, and even more sensual art. I love
Art Brut, but not graffiti. I should love graffiti but it is so full of
clichees. Not original enough. (Mostly anyway, there is good stuff in
everything). I like comics more than Lichtenstein or Warhol. The old
Dick Tracy adventures by Chester Gould! Krazy Kat! Blake and Mortimer!
There are paintings by Shag, Moritz and Ryden that has everything I
like. Balthus and Philip Guston and Dubuffet is sometimes great. Arthur
Lyman is also Magnus kind of art, allthogh he is not that original. It
is the dark in Lyman I think. Eraserhead is amazing, but I would rather
live in a world where such expression were not necessary. I like
exploitation movies, my favorite film of all time is called "the girl
and the geek". Maybe it is because I find girls sophisticated, and
myself a brute. "Europa" by Lars von Trier is another film that speaks
to me. "Wings of Desire" is the most beautiful film ever. Carl Barks
was a genius. Raymond Roussel and Samuel Beckett is brilliant. So is
Dali and Meyron. Bosch and Caravaggio.

I love the thought of an "Hawaiian Eye"

A dream would be to be a dolphin in a world with no humans. Or an eagle.

I have stopped to listen on people telling me what is good and what is
bad. My truth lies deep within and cant be fooled.

There are so much more that I consider my kind of art, the stuff I
mentioned has been very different on important occasions though.

Magnus


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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:45:31 -0500
From: buMp <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Intent and Dis(re)tortion

i realize this thread is boring the hell out of people so no more retorts
from me.

Chopping up his music and repackaging it is the same as
>colorizing and re-editing Citizen Kane. It's a distortion of what
>the creator intended.
>

this is hardly the same thing.
when using samples i am not trying to re-create the piece i took them from,
i am creating my own work. i do not understand why you cannot separate the two.
in a music piece, a photo collage, or a experimental film or video
i may use many bits of other photos, films, videos or music,
but i have CREATED a work that would be ART according to your definition
(ie. personal expression and artistic skill).
to refuse to accept this as art is a sort of facsism or snobbery.
meaning you only think art should be made by people who have specific
talents you believe are
represent your personal view of what ART is.

>What if someone took your sampled song and added lyrics to it
>talking about how much they love Jesus. Then they performed it
>on TV, calling it their own. Wouldn't that be a distortion of
>what you intended? Would you be mad? Someone mentioned that two
>records used the same sample. How can the one who used the sample
>first be mad? It's not their music to claim ownership of!
>

first of all let me say when i sample music,
i am not taking the "essence" of the song...ie. Vanilla Ice, Hammer etc.
(ie. when you hear it you immediately recognize and relate to the original
piece)
(speaking of which, and not that these are examples of it, but early on,
RAP Music was not considered MUSIC by many people. this is obviously wrong
too.)
my samples usually cannot be understood as the song i originally took them
from.
even so, if someone took my whole original song and added christian lyrics
to it,
i would probably laugh first, then say they sure have balls to use our
entire song as a basis of their track (not much talent in that for sure).
i would not be mad because i believe everything out there is source
material for whatever you want to do. however if i was to take a whole song
from someone or take what i believe is the essence of a song i would ask
for permission to use it and credit it as such.
i would also be a little flattered that someone thought highly enough of my
music to use it.
my original intent is not damaged because my piece still exists as it is.
never to be tainted by a half assed attempt to make another song out of it.
i would probably buy the new song as well, just for the laugh.


>>editing is and always will be what makes good art out of
>>source materials.
>
>Editing doesn't make art out of source materials any more than
>a fancy gold frame makes the Mona Lisa art.
>

editing is far from just throwing a frame around something.
not to understand this is our major problem here.
source materials can no way stand on there own without an editor to turn
them into
a single work of "Art" in my opinion, at least when it comes to film/video
and yes collage!
and to say collage is not an art is ridiculous.
you mean people who make them have no means of personal expression or
skill? damn that is harsh.
you cannot relate everything to painting or music.
that is the same as people saying,
they should not have made the movie Naked Lunch, because the book was so
much better?
comparing genres is silly, and filmmakers do the same to video artists.
you are comparing apples and oranges. like rap music, back in the early
days of photography, it was looked at by many and still a few now as the
work of no-talent painters.
they just felt threatened by it. like it was gonna put them out of business.
is this a concern of yours?

>Right. But editing isn't content. Art is all about content.
>Editing merely presents content concisely, the same way that
>proper lighting makes a painting more beautiful in a
>museum.
>

content is only a part of it.  what about the concept  and construction?

we are obviously gonna have to agree to disagree on this subject.

cheers
bump




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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:46:10 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Intent and Distortion

In a message dated 3/22/01 4:55:26 AM EST, [e-mail] writes:

<<
 > What if someone took your sampled song and added lyrics to it
 > talking about how much they love Jesus. Then they performed it
 > on TV, calling it their own.

 I'm eagerly awaiting the occasion! >>

This has almost happened! A hymn used in the Catholic church called "Living
In All Men" is a lyrical re-write of Bob Dylan's "Blowin' In The Wind"!

Ashley


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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:08:32 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) art vs. craft???

Magnus Sandberg schrieb:

> Its so easy but I cant define it. Humour is absolutely necessary, but
> also the dark. It must have something hidden in it, a mystery.

Very well... 100% d'accord! But these things can be embedded in very different scripts. Intellectual constructions, cool strategies etc. You may not even be able to read most of them. I think art should also be kind of explicit, easy to read. Some people would call this "entertaining"; yes, I think art should entertain. From the cradle to the grave ;-)

>

Mo

- --
studio R
senses for a senseless world
http://moritzR.de
.........................................................................
n.e.u.
Thierschstrasse 43
D 80538 Munchen
Germany




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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 06:10:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Waugh <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Ebb and Andy?

Is anyone here familiar with a television show from
the early 60s called "The Ebb and Andy Show" - enough
to give me the premise, etc.? I ask because I found a
single by "The Ebb Tides" which is sort of like an Ed
"Kookie" Byrnes cash-in thing. The songs are Beetle
Boy and Dry Cereal drawled in a staged jovial
hillbilly accent to a rockabilly/garage beat. Beetle
Boy is about quitting a country band to grow his hair
long ("bangs, even")and learning to play like The
Beatles.



=====
"What I need is a shot of Drambuie and some clean sheets."

          - Jack Nance

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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 06:13:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Waugh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Lest we forget!.......(Lenny Dee)

There's also a cheese progression there: mild to
extra-sharp. Mr Dee cut my just about favorite
versions of Caravan and Siboney.

- --- Nathan Miner <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Anyway, good 'ol Lenny Dee.  I had no idea he cut SO
> MANY records!!!  Came across a huge selection of his
> at a flea market recently and as I flipped, I got
> this weird "age progession" visual as the albums
> became more recent................


=====
"What I need is a shot of Drambuie and some clean sheets."

          - Jack Nance

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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:12:41 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Re: (exotica) Intent and Distortion

>This has almost happened! A hymn used in the Catholic church called >"Living In All Men" is a lyrical re-write of Bob Dylan's "Blowin' In >The Wind"!

Guillame Dufay, wrote the "Messe L'Homme Arme", which was a Mass based on a melody of a popular song of his day.  This was all the way back in the 15th century, which is a length of time that almost Dufays description.

Sorry,
Brian Phillips


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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:24:16 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (exotica) Le Boo Boo

That should have been the Missa L'Homme Arme, not Messe.

Turning a near Missa into another fine Messe,
Brian


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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:38:37 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Coasters on Blow Up A Go-Go

It's on London HLZ 10437 from 1972.  It's a great version!

The lyrics are here http://www.lyrics.ch/search/song.asp?song_id=114378&label_id=19027&band_id=6986

and the Clovers' version, which is the original (Stereo or Mono, I can't recall)

has this last line:

"I had so much fun, that I'm going back again,
I wonder what she put in Love Potion Number Ten"

Brian



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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:54:08 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Vic Mizzy release on CD


VIC MIZZY - SUITES & THEMES
At long last, Percepto Records proudly presents the deluxe limited
release of this eagerly anticipated CD compilation showcasing 36 tracks
of original film & TV scores, including THE GHOST AND MR. CHICKEN, THE
RELUCTANT ASTRONAUT, THE SHAKIEST GUN IN THE WEST, HOW TO FRAME A FIGG,
THE NIGHT WALKER, THE SPIRIT IS WILLING, A VERY SPECIAL FAVOR, THE
CAPER OF THE GOLDEN BULLS, DON'T MAKE WAVES, THE PERILS OF PAULINE and
more!

Also included are Mizzy's most popular TV themes--THE ADDAMS FAMILY and
GREEN ACRES, plus a wide variety of previously unreleased themes,
including THE PRUITTS OF SOUTHAMPTON, THE DOUBLE LIFE OF HENRY PHYFFE,
THE 13th GATE amd KENTUCKY JONES!

All music in this 78-minute collection has been remastered from Mizzy's
original studio masters with most tracks being presented here for the
first time on CD.

This package also contains full-color 24-page booklet with liner notes
by Daniel Schweiger detailing the composer's life and career, including
rare stills, sheet music, poster and lobby card reproductions and much
more!

This promotional release is being offered exclusively through
www.percepto.com and has been pressed in a limited archival edition of
1000 copies.

Buy it here:
http://store.percepto.com/percepto/movtvsoun.html




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End of exotica-digest V2 #933
*****************************