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exotica-digest        Thursday, March 15 2001        Volume 02 : Number 924



In This Digest:

(exotica) James Bond Theme Trial Ongoing
Re: (exotica) Other Sex
Re: (exotica) Nancy & Lee Again
(exotica) freaks and geeks (not the TV show)
Re: (exotica) Hidden Identities
Re: (exotica) freaks and geeks (not the TV show)
Re: (exotica) Fabricated Music
Re: (exotica) Other Sex
Re: (exotica) Fabricated Music
RE: (exotica) freaks and geeks (not the TV show)
Re: (exotica) Other Sex
Re: (exotica) Fellinguine
RE: (exotica) freaks and geeks (not the TV show)
Re: (exotica) Other Sex
Re: (exotica) Film recommendation
Re: (exotica) Film recommendation
Re: (exotica) Film recommendation
Re: (exotica) Nancy & Lee Again
(exotica) Proof of Concept
(exotica) Sampling Vampirism
Re: (exotica) Film recommendation
(exotica) Archie McPhee Spectaclock sale
(exotica) More clarifications
(exotica) Whoops I'm An Indian
RE: (exotica) Whoops I'm An Indian
(exotica) mingo-go
Re:  (exotica) More clarifications
Re:  Re:  (exotica) More clarifications
Re: (exotica) Nancy & Lee Again
Re: (exotica) Sampling Vampirism
Re: (exotica) Sampling Vampirism

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:53:15 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (exotica) James Bond Theme Trial Ongoing

What with all the talk of soundtracks, I hope that y'all occasionally find your way to http://filmscoremonthly.com

Here's some interesting goings-on as reported on the site's home page:


James Bond Theme Trial Ongoing
News flash by Lukas Kendall
The libel trial between Monty Norman and London's Sunday Times is ongoing. I want to alert our readers to excellent, comprehensive summaries that Pete Greenhill has been providing for the John Barry newsgroup at Yahoo's egroups, as he has been attending the trial. (I think you have to sign up in order to access the board.)

Here are the daily summaries -- there apparently aren't any for days 1 and 2:

Day 3

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnbarry/message/14831

Day 4-5

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnbarry/message/14867

Day 6

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnbarry/message/14882

Day 7 - John Barry takes the stand!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johnbarry/message/14925

Finally we can learn the story behind the authorship of this famous theme...I hope!

==========
[e-mail]



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:01:41 -0500
From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Other Sex

At 10:14 AM 3/15/01 -0800, Ben Waugh wrote:
>
>What I find amusing musically about the Sopranos is
>that the Gandolfini character and his capi still
>listen to Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra (and speak
>reverentially of the latter): after all, these guys
>are  30 to 40 something years old, raised in an urban
>environment in the Zeppelin-Sex Pistols era

I think it would be a great idea for them to throw in a little Sex Pistols.
I know it would be a big wink-wink thing but at the very least, I can
imagine these guys listening to Springsteen.
I find it very very curious that even though the vast majority of us do NOT
look like rock n roll musicians, we still find it funny when some slightly
overweight, balding character on television (or movies) makes a reference
to rock music.

You watch the Sopranos, you don't question that these guys see themselves
as Rat Packers and think of Frank Sinatra as just this side of Jesus.
On the other hand, I could imagine on a show like this which turns so many
cliches on its side, they could have made more interesting musical choices.

BTW if you ever watch this new A&E show, 100 Centre Street, the character
played by Alan Arkin is a jazz fan and record collector and occasionally
buys used records from a guy on the street.

It's a nice touch.

AZ



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:06:07 -0500
From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Nancy & Lee Again

At 02:02 PM 3/15/01 -0500, m.ace wrote:
>
>Speaking of Nancy & Lee, here's a question from my post that was blocked
>the other week.
>
>Does anyone else have "Nancy & Lee Again" from about 1972? What do you
>think of it?

I have it.  You're right, it's not as good as the original.

I bought my copy when I was in Montreal by the way, at a weird store that
was around the corner from where Will used to live.

I think it's slightly obscure.  I think there are fans of the first record
that would be surprised to see they made another.  I suspect you could get
okay money at ebay for it.  I'm glad I have it but I could probably give it
up.  There's no one around for me to impress anymore.

AZ



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:05:21 -0800
From: "Ron Grandia" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) freaks and geeks (not the TV show)

I know you are the people who can help me in this regard:

I need to contact talent agencies that specialize in human oddity. To whom
does one turn when one needs to hire an army of little people, or needs the
world's skinniest character actor, or an elderly trapeze artist?

I have to believe that there are such organizations. If there are, someone
here knows about it.

Thanks in advance.

Ron



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:14:08 -0500
From: Clayton Black <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Hidden Identities

Thanks for the info.  I just listened to the album at lunchtime, and it's
not as bad as I had originally thought, but he's no Jimmy Smith.  By the
way, the illustration on the front of the album seems to suggest that "The
Mustang" was black.  Was Paul Griffin?  Or are we dealing with an assumption
that "funky" organ music had to be played by an African American?

> From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:50:35 -0500
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: (exotica) Hidden Identities
>
> I'm almost sure that the Mustang was Paul Griffin, who died within the last
> year or so.  And if you see The Mustang Beatles record, pick it up; it's
> better than the other one I had.
>
> AZ



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:26:00 -0500
From: Clayton Black <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) freaks and geeks (not the TV show)

> From: "Ron Grandia" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:05:21 -0800
> To: "Exotica" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: (exotica) freaks and geeks (not the TV show)
>
> I know you are the people who can help me in this regard:
>
> I need to contact talent agencies that specialize in human oddity. To whom
> does one turn when one needs to hire an army of little people, or needs the
> world's skinniest character actor, or an elderly trapeze artist?
>
> I have to believe that there are such organizations. If there are, someone
> here knows about it.

I do not know the answer to this question.  But it put me in mind of a
humorous story from a professor of Russian language I once had who took
students every year to the Soviet Union.  On one trip a young Georgian man
had attached himself to the group, and in a quiet moment, the professor, who
is gay, asked the Georgian man (in Russian) where he might meet men like
himself in Tbilisi, a later stop on their trip.  To explain himself, the
professor had used the term "gomik," which is a shortened version of
"gomoseksualist," or homosexual.  The young man looked at him rather
confusedly, but thought a while, came up with an answer, and wrote the
address for him on a sheet of paper.  A little later one of the students
came over and said to the professor, "Man, that guy thinks you're really
weird!"  Turns out that the Georgian, whose Russian was passable but not
great, had understood the professor to say not "gomik" (gay man) but
"gnomik," which means "little dwarf."  The professor is over six feet tall,
but deciding not to quarrel with the man, the Georgian had given him the
address of a place in Tbilisi where circus performers gather!

My apologies for the off-topic story, but I couldn't help myself.
Clayton



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:50:13 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Fabricated Music

citerar alan  zweig <[e-mail]>:


> I might not express myself like Magnus, who sometimes reminds me of a
young
> Brother Theodore (he's still alive isn't he?  Barely?)

Who is brother Theodore?

> So yes I can imagine poor Magnus hiding in his room, afraid to leave,
> afraid to be confronted by all the Boy Bands blaring from every
speaker.

Thanks for the compassion. I need it for the moment. I have slept
nearly the whole day, and with strange dreams. I dreamed of Eilert
Pilarm. He was out on my childhoods street, and a crowd had gathered.
Then my dog came running and he had hurt his paw. When I bent down to
help him he hit me deep into the flesh with his other paw. I dont like
those kind of dreams, but I have them all the time.

Did I ever tell you about a friend's Lee Hazelwood dream? He was out
walking, and suddenly faced a greek temple, he went inside and it was
full of light, and Lee Hazelwood records. The records were like 50
inches wide, and there were so many, so what began as a wonderful dream
for him (He collects Lee Hazelwood) turned into a collectors nightmare,
because he knew he could not bring home other than a little part of the
temples treasure. And he couldnt choose which ones to pick :)

Magnus



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:55:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Waugh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Other Sex

- --- alan  zweig <[e-mail]> wrote:


> I find it very very curious that even though the
> vast majority of us do NOT
> look like rock n roll musicians, we still find it
> funny when some slightly
> overweight, balding character on television (or
> movies) makes a reference
> to rock music.

> You watch the Sopranos, you don't question that
> these guys see themselves
> as Rat Packers and think of Frank Sinatra as just
> this side of Jesus.
> On the other hand, I could imagine on a show like
> this which turns so many
> cliches on its side, they could have made more
> interesting musical choices.

Yes. Rock cannot be about rebellion and offending the
squares when us parental (and even grand-parental)
types) are blasting Joe Clay, Little Richard, Richard
Hell and Kurt Ka-bang. That's why these kids listen to
that insect-hearted machine music - to piss us off (
;^) ).

Sopranos-wise, I think the musical choices give us
some indication of context, or the character of the
characters (as Richman's Astral Plane did for - shall
I start it again? - Chuck and Buck). Bad 70s hard rock
and hippie fluff is often heard: Tony's 1st fainting
spell occurred as he was driving, listening and
singing along with Deep Purple, "Smoke on the Water."
These guys are very not about sensitivity of any sort
(or at least they are about concealing that
sensitivity). And Ex-Blue-eyes introduced,
appropriately, a major whacking, Godfather style.

But I would hate to be the one that turns this list
into a Sopranos discussion group... almost as
reprehensible as comparing record collecting to beanie
baby fever (evidence of the world authority of the
Demiurge).




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:59:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Waugh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Fabricated Music

I hope he did wake up to find he'd put his pillow up
on E-Bay with steep reserve.

- --- Magnus Sandberg <[e-mail]> wrote:

 a wonderful dream
> for him (He collects Lee Hazelwood) turned into a
> collectors nightmare,
> because he knew he could not bring home other than a
> little part of the
> temples treasure. And he couldnt choose which ones
> to pick :)


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:19:27 +0100
From: "Marco \"Kallie\" Kalnenek" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (exotica) freaks and geeks (not the TV show)

> I need to contact talent agencies that specialize in human oddity. To whom
> does one turn when one needs to hire an army of little people, or
> needs the
> world's skinniest character actor, or an elderly trapeze artist?

Oh, that's an easy one, Ron: invite all members of the Exotica mailing list!

Marco



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:22:45 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Other Sex

In a message dated 3/15/1 3:00:14 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

>>What I find amusing musically about the Sopranos is
>>that the Gandolfini character and his capi still
>>listen to Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra (and speak
>>reverentially of the latter): after all, these guys
>>are  30 to 40 something years old, raised in an urban
>>environment in the Zeppelin-Sex Pistols era
>
>I think it would be a great idea for them to throw in a little Sex Pistols.
>I know it would be a big wink-wink thing but at the very least, I can
>imagine these guys listening to Springsteen.
>I find it very very curious that even though the vast majority of us do NOT
>look like rock n roll musicians, we still find it funny when some slightly
>overweight, balding character on television (or movies) makes a reference
>to rock music.

'Ey some of my best friends are Italian!...And Gandolfini's character
probably grew up as many urban Italians grew up in the Eastern U.S. They
listened to Frankie, Jerry, Dino, Sammy, Connie et al with the family (Pick
up "'Ey Paisano" on Rhino for a sampling). They listened to white boy
doo-woppers like Dion DiMucci, Frankie Valli and a million others as they
headed to the streets and toward puberty, and like Tony Mannero in "Saturday
Night Fever", they went shithouse over disco in the 7T's. Disco was as much
an Italian thing as it was black or gay. My friends in the North End still
make fun of rock from the 70's and early 80's... "Hey who's that playin',
fuckin' Devo or what??"


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:23:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Waugh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Fellinguine

Almost forgot: thank you for seeing through and
patching up the, errr, inscrutAble condition of my
virtual penmanship. I have become slovenly in my
craft.

- --- Mimi Mayer <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Ben penned:
> Is there a message in this? Am I
> >too prone to suspecting inscrutable links and
> >correspondences (or did I eat a variety of things
> in
> >my malformative years that did not agree with me?)
> or
> >are there in fact thousands of Italian restaurants
> >with Fellini-inspired names?
>
> Weird synchronicity. Tonight I'm giving a reading at
> a cafe next door to La
> Dolce Vita, a coffee house with a liquor license.
> And on the day when
> Rota/Fellini crop up on the list. Coincidence,
> correspondence, or
> inscrutable mystery? You decide. Mimi
>
> Bullwinkle: Eenie weinie chili beanie, the sprits
> are about to speak.
> Rocky: Are they friendly spirits?
> Bullwinkle: Friendly? Just listen!
> [commercial break]
>
>


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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:42:34 -0800
From: "Ron Grandia" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (exotica) freaks and geeks (not the TV show)

Hehehhe... I thought of that already.

By the way, I should mention that I am particularly interested in a SF Bay
Area agency.

I have been soing some searches online, as well as consulting my handy-dandy
"reel guide" but to no avail yet.

Ron



> I need to contact talent agencies that specialize in human oddity. To whom
> does one turn when one needs to hire an army of little people, or
> needs the
> world's skinniest character actor, or an elderly trapeze artist?




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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:50:48 -0500
From: "cheryl" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Other Sex

From: "Ben Waugh" <[e-mail]>
> Sopranos-wise, I think the musical choices give us
> some indication of context, or the character of the
> characters (as Richman's Astral Plane did for - shall
> I start it again? - Chuck and Buck).

I finally saw Chuck And Buck last week - good movie, I've been humming that
stupid tune for a week now... (not Astral Plane, but the oodlyoodlyoodly
one...)

The show I've seen with the most interesting music lately is The Lone
Gunmen - not exotica, but good music nonetheless (sort of like the X-Files
used to play, back when it was good...)

And as for Jimmy B's Devo reference, I saw a really cool commercial
yesterday - playing Devo's "Beautiful World" - turned out it was for Target!

cheryl



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:01:03 -0600
From: Paul Dean <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Film recommendation

Ben Waugh wrote:

> Giulietta of the Spirits: very beautiful
> cinematography, and ST, if I recall correctly (it's
> been 10 years).


I quite agree.  Juliet of the Spirits is a *great* movie; I watch it
regularly.  It's available on DVD, and the OST is one of my all time
faves!

paul dean




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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:09:56 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Film recommendation

"m.ace" schrieb:

>
> I'm probably just a pushover, but I've always found ANY Fellini movie to be
> worth viewing. Even the "lesser" films.
>
> Prova d'orchestra (1979) [aka Orchestra Rehearsal]
> Allegorical single-set comedy w/ an orchestra descending into social
> disorder. Maybe a film soundtrack orchestra -- I can't remember that
> distinction. Some found it too obvious. I thought it was amusing.
>

this is the ONLY one I didn't like. too melodramatic for my taste.

Is there any Fellini film that Nino Rota DIDN'T make the music for?

Mo


- --
studio R
senses for a senseless world
http://moritzR.de
.........................................................................
n.e.u.
Thierschstrasse 43
D 80538 Munchen
Germany





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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:08:59 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Film recommendation

Magnus Sandberg schrieb:

>
> Did Fellini do the film from the eighties about the italian Fred
> Astaire and Ginger Rogers impersonators? That was a nice one!
>

yes, Ginger and Fred, with Mastroianni and Guiletta Masina. great late work!

Mo

- --
studio R
senses for a senseless world
http://moritzR.de
.........................................................................
n.e.u.
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D 80538 Munchen
Germany






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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:09:47 +0100
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Nancy & Lee Again

"m.ace" schrieb:

> Speaking of Nancy & Lee, here's a question from my post that was blocked
> the other week.
>
> Does anyone else have "Nancy & Lee Again" from about 1972? What do you
> think of it?

No, it's great. Not AS great as No.1, but if you're at least slightly a fan, you gotta have this. It has this little talk between Nancy and Lee, where he says, he's now going to Sweden etc. All Lee Hazlewood albums are kind of obscure, has any of them been reissued at all? I guess the most underestimated singer/songwriter of the 20th century HAS to be obscure.

Mo
- --
studio R
senses for a senseless world
http://moritzR.de
.........................................................................
n.e.u.
Thierschstrasse 43
D 80538 Munchen
Germany






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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:35:02 -0800
From: bigshot <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Proof of Concept

exotica-digest wrote:

>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:26:04 +0100
>From: Nicola Battista <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: (exotica) Fabricated Music
>
>this reminds me that a friend of mine has been begging me for the last 3
>months to finish a certain dance remix of his band's tune.
>I took something like 3 hours to build a structure for 3 remix. Both I and
>the original artists (at least most of the band members) like it, the only
>trouble is that in 3 months I haven't been able to put a couple of small
>pieces in time and tune with all the rest.

This one is funny. Perhaps you should suggest that the band all
play in the same key. hehe

See ya
Steve

      Stephen Worth
      [e-mail]

      The Web: http://www.spumco.com
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:35:00 -0800
From: bigshot <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Sampling Vampirism

exotica-digest wrote:

>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:36:16 -0500
>From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
>Subject: (exotica) The Problem with people who have a problem with Machines
>
>If someone hears a tune with lots of samples and says "Gee I'd like to hear
>some of the original tunes that were sampled", then I can understand that.
>But when someone says "I would PREFER to hear the original tune", I find
>that just bizarre.

It is the exact same feeling I get when I watch Ken Burns's Jazz
and I see a clip of Jelly Roll Morton playing the piano, and then
some "critic" starts talking over the top of it, and they cut
away to his head yakking away as Jelly Roll plays in the background.
I would rather hear Jelly Roll than the talking head. I would
rather hear Enoch Light than some kid standing in front of him
noodling with a sampler.

There is a TON of great music in this world. There is absolutely
no reason to "repackage" it. The music speaks for itself. People
who feel the need to make a musical statement should make their
own music. My suspicion is that they can't... that's why they
have to stand on the broad shoulders of musicians of the past
to make "their own point" with somebody else's music.

>a lot of this sample-based music uses music that a lot of us
>would actually hate if we were to listen to the originals.

I suspect that says a lot more about you than it does the original
music.

>IF you don't like the genre of music that often features sampling,
>so be it. But it seems to me that you're saying " I don't like
>this music because I philosophically oppose the very concept of
>sampling". To which I can only ask "On what basis"?

I require both musicality and musicianship from musicians. I
believe in music as a form of personal artistic expression. All
of those elements are lacking in music cobbled together from
bits of other people's music.

>Is it because you philosophically oppose the use of computers in
>the making of music?

No. An instrument is a tool. It is certainly possible to use
a computer to compose and perform great music. But the tool
is the least important part of great musicmaking.

See ya
Steve


      Stephen Worth
      [e-mail]

      The Web: http://www.spumco.com
      Usenet:  alt.animation.spumco
      Palace:  cartoonsforum.com:9994

      Spumco International
      1021 Grandview, 2nd Floor
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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:42:50 +0100 (CET)
From: "Magnus Sandberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Film recommendation

Thanks for your recommendations, I choosed 'il Bidone', dont think
anyone mentioned it, but I checked Amazon and IMDB and it seemed to be
the perfect followup to Nights of Cabiria, also a film about loneliness
and even due to the transfer to dvd that were supposed to be great. Now
maybe you will even see Magnus turn into a Fellini collector as well.
This was also scored by Nino Rota.

Also choosed Jean Renoirs 'Grand Illusion', I saw it fifteen years ago,
remember I liked it alot but the movie will be a total surprise since
all I remember is Von Stroheims thing around his neck


MAgnus


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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:45:09 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (exotica) Archie McPhee Spectaclock sale

For those not on the AM mailing list, behold:

SPECTACLOCK SALE!
They may be the coolest novelty clocks ever produced. The Spectaclocks

have the bounciest music and the best dioramas in novelty history,
but all
good things must come to an end and we are discontinuing the
line. We are
lowering the price from $34.95 to $24.95 and advertising it only
to cult
members. There are five styles left: Beach Scene, New Orleans
Jazz,
Fiesta, Classical Music and Ballet. These are in limited supply
and make
great gifts!
http://www.mcphee.com/cgi-bin/mcphee/affiliate?id=CLT301&sku=spectasale



[e-mail]



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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:00:23 -0800
From: bigshot <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) More clarifications

exotica-digest wrote:

>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:35:13 +0100
>From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: (exotica) Songwriting
>
>Basically your arguments are the 19th century view on the art of the 20th
>century.  Almost all innovations of the last 100 years were accused of a
>lack of quality and craftmanship in the beginning.

I'm not entirely sure they weren't right when it comes to
fine art. In music, it is impossible to ignore the importance
of the development of Jazz. That is the single most important
creative development of the past 100 years. Filmmaking runs
second to that.

>the art and music of the last century - especially what we call Exotica -
>was heavily influenced by so called primitive arts.

You have to be kidding! Exotica music doesn't have anything
to do with primitive arts! You've been believing what they
say on those liner notes again. Exotica music is all a
midwestern vision of mysterious, but non-existent dark
continents and desert islands. It has more to do with
Xavier Cugat and Charlie Barnet than it does pygmies in the
Ituri forest. The people who played it wore wing tip shoes
and horn rim glasses, they didn't carry spears. It's a
fantasy, like Disneyland. But it's built on a foundation
of big band and small swing combos.

>You will have extreme difficulties to explain what good craftmanship is at
>all. Like f.i., wether the singing of Frank Sinatra is so good because it
>is so perfect - which it isn't - or because it shows expression, when he
>doesn't hit the right note all the time. Try to explain!

I'd be happy to discuss Sinatra. He had tons of skill, built up
with his years with Dorsey. He also had great musicality in the
middle part of his career. He kept going until he was a shadow
of himself though, so it's impossible to generalize about his
career. It divides into three clearly defined pieces... The
Columbia, Capitol and Reprise eras.

>You mention the
>Electric Light Orchestra, they could sing multi-vocally extremely well,
>better than the Beatles. Does it mean I have to like them more?

You missed my point there I think. I was saying that neither of
them were exceptional when it came to playing their instruments.
The thing that set the Beatles apart was their musicality and
songwriting ability. ELO didn't have that. I'm not saying that
craftsmanship is ALL you need. I'm saying that musicality without
musicianship is at best "half-good". It can be argued that the
Beatles improved their musicianship remarkably as time went
on, but it can also be argued that their musicality followed
an inverse curve to their musicianship. (I could draw that
idea clearer than I can say it... Picture an X laying on its
side... one line is musicality and one is musicianship...
do you understand?)

See ya
Steve

      Stephen Worth
      [e-mail]

      The Web: http://www.spumco.com
      Usenet:  alt.animation.spumco
      Palace:  cartoonsforum.com:9994

      Spumco International
      1021 Grandview, 2nd Floor
      Glendale, CA 91201



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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:02:02 -0800
From: bigshot <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Whoops I'm An Indian

exotica-digest wrote:

>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:05:13
>From: "Robert McKenna" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: (exotica) A Brighter View of Our Dark Age of Music
>
>Magnus, have you tried 'whoops I'm an indian' by Hal Wilmer

Have you heard Fannie Brice's original version?

See ya
Steve

      Stephen Worth
      [e-mail]

      The Web: http://www.spumco.com
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:02:57 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: (exotica) Whoops I'm An Indian

>>Magnus, have you tried 'whoops I'm an indian' by Hal Wilmer

>Have you heard Fannie Brice's original version?
>Steve

He will - I've included it on one of my exoticaring tapes.
BTW, Willner doesn't actually have the tune WIAI on the disc
(unless it's buried so deep I missed it).
He's using it for the concept of the lyric line "that's something
that I never was before" - in other words, that now he's a dance
music maker, something he never was before. Or at least that's
how I read it.

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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:53:03 -0500
From: buMp <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) mingo-go

i was surprised to see (not really) former exotikitten miss jill mingo on
LuxuriaMusic.com yesterday
spinning her stuff without a mention of her appearence here on the list or
did i miss a posting???

i caught the last few seconds and managed to chat a few lines to her but
that was it.
i did read her impressive bio and happy to hear her doing so much,
but sorry i did not get to hear the show.
did anybody check it out?
does Luxuria have their shows archived yet?

bump out




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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:17:55 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  (exotica) More clarifications

In a message dated 3/15/1 6:53:57 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

>Picture an X laying on its
>side... one line is musicality and one is musicianship...
>do you understand?)

No...please explain?


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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:21:25 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Re:  (exotica) More clarifications

In a message dated 3/15/1 7:18:54 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

>>Picture an X laying on its
>>side... one line is musicality and one is musicianship...
>>do you understand?)
>
>No...please explain?

Actually if anyone would attempt to differentiate between musicianship and
musicality (?) it would be welcome.......anything with "ity" always perplexes
me (sexuality, city)...JB


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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:41:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Kerry Keane <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Nancy & Lee Again

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Moritz R wrote:

>
>
>
> "m.ace" schrieb: > > > Speaking of Nancy & Lee, here's a question from
> my post that was blocked > > the other week. > > > > Does anyone else have
> "Nancy & Lee Again" from about 1972? What do you > > think of it? > > No,
> it's great. Not AS great as No.1, but if you're at least slightly a fan,
> you gotta have this. It has this little talk between Nancy and Lee, where
> he says, he's now going to Sweden etc. All Lee Hazlewood > albums are kind
> of obscure, has any of them been reissued at all?

Most definitely.  Smells Like Records has
four reissues out:

http://www.smellslikerecords.com



- --

Kerry




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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:04:24 -0500
From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sampling Vampirism

At 03:35 PM 3/15/01 -0800, bigshot wrote:
>
>>a lot of this sample-based music uses music that a lot of us
>>would actually hate if we were to listen to the originals.
>
>I suspect that says a lot more about you than it does the original
>music.

What the fuck do you mean by that?
(Sorry to everyone else but sometimes you have to swear).
I'm tired of arguing your other views.
But I really wonder what you mean by this "point".  Unless it's just the
kind of meaningless thing you say to someone online because it's easier to
be rude when the person's not standing there.
I'm not sure you know what sampling means.  Or how things are sampled.
Something can make a good sample and not be "good" in any other way.  I
would assume that to be obvious but apparently not.
There's three piano notes at the beginning of some generic cha cha tune.
Someone takes that and repeats them and mixes in rhythm and gives it a
groove that I like and then moves on to twenty five other little samples
like that in the course of five minutes.
I say that I prefer that to the original which is actually the hundredth
version of "Frenesi" that I've heard and not my favorite version by a long
shot.
What praytell does that say about me?
Are you telling me that no matter what, you're sure that you'd prefer the
original?
I know you're an absolutist but you can't possibly go that far.
Can you?



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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:05:01 -0500
From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Sampling Vampirism

At 03:35 PM 3/15/01 -0800, bigshot wrote:
>
>>a lot of this sample-based music uses music that a lot of us
>>would actually hate if we were to listen to the originals.
>
>I suspect that says a lot more about you than it does the original
>music.

What the fuck do you mean by that?
(Sorry to everyone else but sometimes you have to swear).
I'm tired of arguing your other views.
But I really wonder what you mean by this "point".  Unless it's just the
kind of meaningless thing you say to someone online because it's easier to
be rude when the person's not standing there.
I'm not sure you know what sampling means.  Or how things are sampled.
Something can make a good sample and not be "good" in any other way.  I
would assume that to be obvious but apparently not.
There's three piano notes at the beginning of some generic cha cha tune.
Someone takes that and repeats them and mixes in rhythm and gives it a
groove that I like and then moves on to twenty five other little samples
like that in the course of five minutes.
I say that I prefer that to the original which is actually the hundredth
version of "Frenesi" that I've heard and not my favorite version by a long
shot.
What praytell does that say about me?
Are you telling me that no matter what, you're sure that you'd prefer the
original?
I know you're an absolutist but you can't possibly go that far.
Can you?



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End of exotica-digest V2 #924
*****************************