Subject: (exotica) (We Want Your/Won't Give You My)M-O-N-E-Y
Performance royalties to Barrett Strong:
You know the best songs in life are free,
Cuz you can get 'em as an MP3
Just use Napster,
And Usenet too
Then for your buddies,
Burn a CD or two.
Sony BMG and EMI,
Their stockholders are a-gonna cry,
They're blamin Napster,
And netgeeks too,
But when a CD lists at nineteen bucks,
The kids say screw you.
The little girls too young to drink,
Will still want those pictures of NSYNC,
They'll spend their money,
And Daddy's too,
It's always been that way,
There's not much you can do.
Sheet music sales have gone down,
Since piano rolls came into town
They're losin' money, they scream,
Hand over fist,
We oughta ban all newfangled stuff,
Judge says cease and desist.
While this year's CD sales are good,
They're shittin' bricks out there in Hollywood,
Their scared of bandwidth,
Compression too,
Their game is how many times can they,
Sell the same crap to you.
This debate ain't gonna go away,
Till they find a way to make us pay,
They won't get everyone,
Just me and you,
Because America's favorite dance,
Is called "The Screw."
Fade: Make up your own from subject header depending on which side of
the fence you are on today.
Non-copyright 2000 - available on 78 shellac only, flip side is "99
MP3's On The Wall"
JB Le Noir
(OK, vote me off this friggin island, see if I give a rat's ass, errr,
I'm sick of rice and fish and larvae anyway!)
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:57:42 EDT
From: Rcbrooksod@aol.com
Subject: Re: (exotica) Re: Kahiki rebellion
In a message dated 7/31/00 4:02:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
tydirium@suba.com writes:
<< Take into consideration people who have never had a chance to go
there - they might have a great time on the 26th, but they'll never get to
experience the 'real' Kahiki. >>
that is fine with me. cus' i gunna be with some cool tiki folks i would not
get to be there with on a "regular night".
tb
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:24:49 -0700
From: "paul thomas" <hepcatpaul@lycos.com>
Subject: (exotica) napster (again), the phonograph ...
Rino wrote:
"He, ever since the invention of the phonograph people had to pay to own the
music. Why is paying
to own music such an issue now?"
~~~> being the academic type I am, I have to say that all this goes right back to the invention of the moveable type printing press. Once something can be replicated easily and cheaply it's going to subjected to potential 'rip offs'.
The composers of classical music had probelms with their scores being bootlegged by musical publishers all over Europe. Telemann arrived in Hamburg with his latest musical creation only to find tha the bootlegged score had preceeded him and was already well known. Handel sued a London musical publisher over bootlegged editions of his scores. This is an old, old problem and it just refits itself to new technology like Napster.
~~~> DJ Batman, If making Napster 'adware' will recompense anyone who feels they're being cheated, then I'm all for that! :)
~~Paul~~
Get your FREE Email and Voicemail at Lycos Communications - http://comm.lycos.com
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:05:49 EDT
From: Rcbrooksod@aol.com
Subject: Re: (exotica) (We Want Your/Won't Give You My)M-O-N-E-Y
In a message dated 7/31/00 6:54:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jamesbg@home.com
writes:
<< Sheet music sales have gone down,
Since piano rolls came into town
They're losin' money, they scream,
Hand over fist,
We oughta ban all newfangled stuff,
Judge says cease and desist. >>
you know, even being the bastard i am, i have not figured away to copy the
piano rolls for my player piano. give me sometime tho.
loved the poem.
tb
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 02:22:06 +0200
From: Moritz R <webmaster@derplan.com>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...
Rcbrooksod@aol.com wrote:
> believe it or not. the above statement was how i started this whole debate.
>
> well, the list is more lively than it was a week ago. i am enjoying the
> excitement.
Except that I started the debate, this is the first time I agree with you.
Mo
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 02:23:31 +0200
From: Moritz R <webmaster@derplan.com>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Who wanted those tiki lights?
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:52:09 EDT
From: LTepedino@aol.com
Subject: Re: (exotica) More Napster
In a message dated 7/31/00 11:01:32 PM EST, risser@cinci.rr.com writes:
<< I for one am interested in seeing the monopolistic music industry seriously
damaged. Perhaps then, artists will actually make money from music sales
and not have to rely on T-Shirt and concert sales. >>
Hey Peter,
In the first place the record industry is not a monopoly. A monopoly is the
exclusive control of of a business. There are several major labels and
hundreds of independent labels, not to mention those musicians who chose to
record and release music themselves.
Secondly, bands/performers license the rights to themselves to t-shirt and
poster companies making a lisencing fee and a royalty per unit. So payment is
made to artists in the same way as by record companies.
Thirdly, it is a promoter who puts on a concert and in turn pays the artist a
gaurrantee and if there is a profit, a percentage of ticket sales. Agsin the
method of payment to the artist is ismialr to that of a record company.
You make out record companies to be the big villian in all this. If it wasn't
for record companies Mr. Risser, there wouldn't be the music you'd be talking
about on this list. And if it wasn't for record companies there wouldn't be
the catalog of songs to download from Napster.
So before you make, to use your words from an earlier e-mail to me, "truly
inane, totally outrageous,hyperbolic and utterly illogical responses" please
get your facts straight.
Ashley
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------------------------------
Date: 1 Aug 2000 06:30:03 -0700
From: mkg@calle22.com
Subject: (exotica) Napster (another view)
I don't know if this topic is thoroughly exhausted but I feel like saying something that hasn't been mentioned before. Thta is that Napster allows global access to music. And global doesn't just mean Europe and the US (which is where the whole discussion has been centered in this list).
A little bit of my personal experience: I am living in London now (until september) but before this year I lived in Bogota (that is the capital of Colombia in South America). And I can see very well the advantages of Napster when I return there. In fact a fast internet account is the second thing I'm going to get when I go back (the first one being a job, of course).
I don't know if any of you have been to record stores in third world countries but the variety that most people in Europe or the US take for granted is not a fact there. So if you are into different kinds of music, there simply is no way you can get it locally. You can order it from the internet but then you have to pray that the local post office agent doesn't find the covers of your CDs interesting and then decides to steal your whole package (it has been known to happen).
And then there is the issue of the prices. If you think prices are high in the UK (and they are) you should see the prices in Colombia. Nowadays a Cd goes around for ú20 (30 U$) and that happens in a country where the minimum wage is less than 200 U$ a month. So piracy is rampant. How can you expect it not to be? If people like music and want a cassette or a CD they are not going to pay such ludicrously high prices in a store when they can buy a pirate copy in the street for 1/4th or 1/5th of the price.
There should be some kind of global scale for music prices. Do something like what Coca Cola does, accomodate the price of its product to the real economic possibilities of the local people. But of course, that doesn't happen.
So going back to Ashley's sarcasm against bumpy: It IS a FACT that if you lived in Colombia (or in any third world country) and wanted to buy as much music as you buy with your usual first world wages, you WOULD have to have 3 or 4 jobs. Or pirate music from the internet.
I really think that it is easy to overlook the economic differences between countries and think that if all your life you've had cool record stores a couple of blocks away that is the same case with everybody else. And that is not the case. The world is a very big place. And I think that your geographical location shouldn't interfere with the pleasure you get from listening to the kind of music you like. And that is why I think Napster is great.
Having said that, now that I am in London I buy all the music I can. Legally, no bootlegs. And have no Napster. But that is going to change in Bogota. Or I will become very depressed.
Hope this helped in the discussion,
Cheers,
Manuel
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 13:32:54 GMT
From: "Albert Fish" <adipocere@hotmail.com>
Subject: (exotica) It's Vegas, baby!
Hello,
I'm looking for groovy places to hang in Vegas. Good music and cocktails,
>It may only be a matter of time until music industry is seriously <damaged by free downloads. It seems kind of obvious that more and >more people will choose to do that.
About this: Someone told me about a college book store that stopped selling CD's because the students stopped buying. Doin' the MP3 thing.
These stores are typically more expensive anyways so who knows.
P.S.
You Can Get Free Email & Homepages @ http://www.buzzlink.com
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:27:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Indulis R Rutks <rutks002@tc.umn.edu>
Subject: (exotica) Cape Town
Though I've made this sort of query before, with no results, I thought I'd
try it again...
I'll be travelling to Cape Town, SOuth Africa in October. Anyone know of
any record/CD shops or bars/clubs to visit?
Oh, and how about Amsterdam? I'll have a couple of 8-hour layovers there
during this same trip.
Dankie!
- -Indy Rutks (rutks002@tc.umn.edu)
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 12:30:15 -0400
From: "Nathan Miner" <nminer@jhmi.edu>
Subject: (exotica) Kahiki Trip!
Okay, it's been a little over a week since my girlfriend and I drove out =
to Columbus to visit the Kahiki ("You're driving all the way out there to =
eat??" I've heard that over and over again!!!). We left Thursday, July =
20th and ambled out west taking our time, picnicing and flea marketing =
along the way and back - arriving back home in Baltimore on Saturday night =
at 11pm.
Anyway, it was worth the drive, but I should warn anyone visiting for the =
first time that the Kahiki is located in a dirty, ugly, depressing, =
"down-trodden" part of town that had it's "hey day" long, long ago and is =
now slipping into poverty, vacant lots, etc. I can understand why the =
Kahiki is glad to get out - and I have absolutely nothing but compassion =
for the decision to close and move elsewhere!! I know the Kahiki owners =
were celebrating that someone actually wanted to open a business on the =
property.
There has also been a list of recommended vintage motels in Columbus near =
the Kahiki; now I'm no prude, but after spotting the recommended motels, =
all I could think was "No Way!" We ended up staying at the pricier place =
right at the intersection of Broad St. and (fogot the other street) - that =
was like $85 a night!! (We actually got a discount, the true rate is =
around $120 or something.....). =20
Anyway, horrible location aside (oh, and be prepared that ALL of the =
exit/on ramps to I-70 are currently under construction and CLOSED making =
for a few loops and turns to take detours onto 70, hopefully that'll be =
cleared up by the time the "big event" hits.....?), the restaurant was =
fantastic and certainly stands out as a towering icon to a long-forgotten =
era of polynesian silliness (and I mean that in an endearing way of =
course!!). When we first saw it, a collective "Whoa!" issued from the =
Green Tracker with Maryland tags.
The food was very good, which I wasn't expecting after hearing from lots =
of people that it was just "ok." Talking with some of the locals at the =
bar, they concurred that the food had gotten a lot better over the past =
few months. The drinks were also decent, and two zombies, a fog-cutter =
and snips from my girlfriends headhunter made for "happy!happy!" in the =
'ol cranium. You do get to keep the mugs when you order drinks - either =
the skull mug for the zombie or the "brown face tiki" for the headhunter. =
Beware, the mugs used at the dinner table (speaking of the headhunter mug) =
are brown and "gloppy" looking compared to the slick versions sitting =
behind the bar. We traded our "Mr. Glop" for a sleek one at the bar after =
dinner. I can't comment on the skull mugs as there weren't any for sale =
and I didn't notice any different ones at the bar. These weren't too bad =
though - but still not as well defined as older Kahiki Zombie mugs. =20
I had shrimp with spinach and rice and my girlfriend had the ribs - a BIG =
rack of ribs. They both were good.=20
I was the shameless tourist, slapping down large bills as I scooped up =
little Kahiki tiki necklaces (everything is waaaaay overpriced so be =
forewarned to bring lots of $$$$$$), a cheesy ceramic "tiki bowl" with a =
badly represented hula gal on the front, a hand-towel with sown in tiki =
face, a 5min. video about the Kahiki, post cards, and little pokers/swizzle=
sticks with a tiki head on the end and the Kahiki name along the stick. =
And two menus, one for drinks and the dinner menu.
For some reason, the cubbards were bare in the gift shop that night. =
There were NO headhunter or zombie mugs to buy, only a few of the bowls; =
no ceramic salt 'n peppers, no votive candle "lamps" (I guess like the =
ones on the tables - with very *rough* "made at home" looking cut-out =
pieces supposed to resemble a face but it's mostly just a design). They =
had tacky t-shirts with an admittedly cool Kahiki logo w/a graphic of the =
restaurant on the front breast but a stupid "I Got Lei'd" wording on the =
back framed by a flowered lei. There weren't any dips or food items on =
sale from the Kahiki Foods line which I also thought was weird.
A nice Ohio couple at the bar who know Otto and Bosko mentioned that the =
gift shop can be weird. They seem to just go "to the storeroom" and pull =
out armfulls of whatever happens to be in sight when the shelves get =
empty. Maybe they'll stock up for the party, but you'd think they'd have =
more to offer since being so busy - unless, of course they're simply =
running out of things to sell.
The place is hard to describe - let's just say that it would be everything =
you would think it to be.....and then some. I hate to ruin the surprise, =
but go into the men's room and you get to wash your hands under giant =
stone tiki faces that spit the Hot/Cold water outta their mouths into =
giant clam shells!!!! Whoa! Tikis galore in every shape and size, =
painted brightly or lurking quietly in the corners or in the rafters - =
full-sized huts housing two eating areas, another hut housing the bar (big =
HUTS, with THATCHED ROOFS!), a "rainforest" area along one wall with =
thunder sounds piped in and periodic rainstorms cascading down from =
sprinklers above, the other wall houses huge fish tanks lined up end-to-end=
, a downstairs "party" area decked out to look like a cave (the walls are =
all done in black lava rock) with a bamboo bar and tiki totems supporting =
the bar shelves, in a word - WHOA!
It was fun, and I wished we could've gone back for brunch but they only =
open for dinner on Saturdays. :-( (And they wouldn't let us spend the =
night!)
- - Nate =20
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:39:12 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com>
Subject: (exotica) Siesta
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-exotica@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-exotica@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of mkg@calle22.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:30 AM
> I don't know if any of you have been to record stores in third
> world countries but the variety that most people in Europe or the
> US take for granted is not a fact there.
Actually, that reminds me of something else.
The music store situation in the Philippines has always been kind of dim --
the deepest musical selections which stores have have always been lite jazz.
But I was completely floored when two months or so ago I was in Manila when
I noticed a whole section (I think it's called an endcap?) prominently
displaying the title INDIEPOP. And aside from Belle and Sebastian, the
Cardigans, and Kahimi Karie, there were all these CDs from bands I had never
ever heard of: Looper, Girlfrendo, Club 8, Yoshinori Sunahara, The Legendary
Jim Ruiz Group, Piano Magic, and a whole bunch of compilations. (Right
there, in a store in one of the grimmest cities in the Third World -- but
it's my home and I love it...)
So I take the plunge and buy the featured title: a compilation from some
label I'd never heard of before (Siesta Records) called "Sombrero." (Because
of the dollar-peso exchange rate, the CD came out to about $10.) And it was
*wonderful.* I just can't get enough of this stuff. I went back the next
week and bought the two other comps. (And yes, you might add, all these
purchases without the benefit of reviews. Or Napster, for that matter.)
Since then I've discovered that one of the major mailing lists devoted to
this stuff is called (surprise) the Indiepop list -- which makes me wonder
who the enlightened buyer for this store was. (I've also since discovered
that one of the major distributors -- or maybe *the* distributor, I don't
know -- is actually only a few blocks away from my place, here in San
Francisco!)
In short, record stores in third world countries are indeed generally
dismal -- but you know something's going right when there's an actual
Indiepop section in one...
Oh, could anyone maybe throw a few recommendations my way?
Later,
Ben
np: charles mingus, "revenge!"
http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406
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