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exotica-digest         Saturday, July 29 2000         Volume 02 : Number 766



In This Digest:

(exotica) Re: Kahiki rebellion
(exotica) Re:johnny socko
Re: (exotica) Napster...
(exotica) In Flight Entertainment - Cocktail Napkin #3
Re: (exotica) Napster...
(exotica) Batman
Re: (exotica) In Flight Entertainment - Cocktail Napkin #3
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Napster...
(exotica) Playlist For Space Bop, July 30
(exotica) Fred Lowery rareity - hear him talk!  Baxter fans, READ
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Nat's documentry
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Napster...
Re: (exotica) Playlist for "Trance Cocktail Airlines" 7.26.00

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:24:27 -0600
From: JT <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Re: Kahiki rebellion

Otto

>Wow, that's pretty harsh calling the gig an artificial scene
>and how would one refer to a Martin Denny show at the Shell Bar
>or more realistically a Don Ho show?

No offense intended - like I said, we (we meaning 16 or so of us here in
Chicago) would all just prefer to remember the Kahiki on a 'regular' night.
Paying $100 for a buffet (rather than a regular a la carte meal plus a few
drinks at half that price) isn't much of an attraction either.  None of us
could care less about the DJ's, and also we'd rather be by the big
fireplace than stuck in the basement...  This was a pretty unanimous
descision that we made over drinks at Tong's last week.  No one disagreed
in the least, so we made our own alternate plans.

Anyway, this wasn't meant as disrespectful, simply a different opinion on
what constitutes a 'good time', and a different opinion on how we'd like to
see the Kahiki off.

I hope 'your' event on the 26th goes well, and I hope everyone who goes has
a really good time.   Seriously.  And for those who share our differing
opinion, we'll welcome you on the 23rd.  I know that I'll be reporting on
both nights on The Tiki Bar Review Pages.

I am certainly not trying to create some sort of rift among the old-time
Tiki crew, either, BTW.  So, to answer your other question, I don't think
Denny charged double for dinner during his shows, and I don't think he had
so-called celebrity DJ's...   ;-)

JT
Tiki Bar Review Pages
http://www.tydirium.net


...


- -
www.tydirium.net:

*   Tydirium Multimedia
*   Left Orbit Temple
*   Blue Harvest
*   Tiki Bar Review Pages
*   Jazz Baby
...and my own weird ramblings and tour journals




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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 02:32:29 +0800
From: "william" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Re:johnny socko

 i may be mistaken but i thought johnny socko was re-issued in the states
about 5 years ago on video. it seemed like it was around the same time as
some joddorowsky(sp?) was re-issued as well as some ultraman re-issues. it
seems that i found it in my local video store in seattle a few years before
i came to taiwan in late 97. i suspect there must be some video mailorder
company that still has it in stock somewhere...

            william in taipei.

 ps. does anyone remember the show about a family that lived in a volcano
and they could change shape into rocket ships? i've been trying to remember
the name of that show for years...


> Subject: (exotica) Johnny Socko...
>
> Does anybody have copies of this??
>
> Isn't  this the show with the "pharo headed" robot that shoots missles =
> outta his fingers and has a small bud who controls him??
>
> Love to see that show again.
>
> Music link??  I guess the song title was cool??
>
> - - Nate
>
>
> ------------------------------




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 21:10:43 +0200
From: Ton =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=FCckert?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

>those files are only virtual until you convert them to wavs and burn them=
 to=20
>a CD.  and i don't view those files a virtual anyway.   they are there on=
 my=20
>hard drive, physically, and can be utilized in many different ways.
>
>for me, nothing is better than free music (yes at someone's, usually the=20
>record company's expense).
>
>ton, no offense, but your argument that you like to "get out" to the record=
=20
>store is very individualistic.  and that is ok.  me?  i like to do things
not=20
>in front of the computer too (the idea that i am saying this sound a little=
=20
>crazy to me -- everybody feels the same way).
>
>for me, pouring over 16 dollar CD's at a store is not my idea of having=
 fun.
>
>sorry if i misunderstood your comments, and again, in no way do i want to=
=20
>offend.  i just feel like typing this morning.


Yes, you can burn your own CD, you can also print out a collection of poems=
=20
and ram a few wire stitches through it, but it would still lack the aura of=
=20
the authentic. Napster may be good for exploring, but if you really come to=
=20
love something, you would probably go out and buy it anyway.

Cheers, Ton


 *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
 *** Ton R=FCckert   Mozartstraat 12   5914 RB Venlo   The Netherlands ***
 *** [e-mail]   http://www.plex.nl/~mojoto   Ph 31/0 773545386 ***
 *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
 ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
 ~~~ ~~~ ~~~      Members of our staff may be available      ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
 ~~~ ~~~        for private parties after the egg dishes.        ~~~ ~~~
 ~~~   http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/4264/music/w34779.ram  ~~~
 ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:48:15 -0500
From: "Mark D. Head" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) In Flight Entertainment - Cocktail Napkin #3

Hey Jet Setters, it's us, Star and Venus, here at "In
Flight Entertainment" (http://www.JetSetAir.com) with
the "Cocktail Napkin" for July 29th, 2000.  We've been
feverishly reading e-mail, listening to new CD's as they
come pouring in the door, and shopping.  HA!  The Count
and Captain asked us to find gold lame' jumpsuits with
matching boots for this week's show that we call "Space
is the Place".  Well, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! and do we
ever look ready for our hip trip to outer space.  We're
taking the "In Flight Entertainment" space shuttle for a
spin around the galaxy to spread the "Global Lounge"
message to civilizations everywhere!  It's all happening
right now at at
http://www.jetsetair.com/shows/current/index.html.  At
least we won't have to worry about dieting for a while,
cause we'll be weightless! Wow!

We're all very excited about this week's special guest -
what an amazingly talanted guy! And cute, too! Novelist,
actor and producer Robert Lewellyn gets beamed up from
his home in London for a very exciting interview, and
brings along his alter-ego Kryten from the smash BBC hit
"Red Dwarf". If you live in Great Britain or Europe,
chances are you're already a big fan of this groovy
Sci-Fi comedy/drama, now in its 10th season; over 10
million people tune in to watch each week.  And if you
aren't hip to "Red Dwarf," you absolutely need to get
with it. Check out your local PBS station here in the US
and if they don't air "Red Dwarf", ask them to start.
It's that HIP!

And what's on tap for the "Drink of the Week" and the
"Groovy Movie," you might ask?  Join us as we sip our
"Beam Me Up Scotty's" and watch the great Sci-Fi classic
spoof "Barbarella" starring Jane Fonda.  Did she look
hot in this movie or what?

With the help of our 10 massive diamond-graphite
encrusted radar dishes capable of pinpoint reception in
the most remote crevices of deep space (and a funky old
pair of rabbit ears that Rick rigs up with aluminum
foil), we're able to tune in to the "Intergalactic
Television Network" and catch some classic space-TV,
like "Cooking With Cosmo", "Star Whores" and "Monster
Mayhem Theater". Too wild!

Be sure to catch all the action at our groovy web site,
and register for the "Cocktail Napkin" at
http://www.jetsetair.com/newsletter/index.html so you
can win free music and other Jet Set paraphernalia.

Well Sputniks, we're all working hard here at "In
Flight" to make this the best show of its kind, and
we'll be continuously adding new and exciting content to
our web site.  Keep an eye on the Duty Free Shoppe; in
the next few weeks you'll find some cool Jet Set
accessories, art, and fun toys and games...

And don't forget to join us next week for Flight #4,
"Soundtracks with a Twist," when our special guest will
be the extraordinarily gifted composer and arranger,
Lalo Schifrin, the man behind Mission:Impossible,
Mannix, Bullitt, and much much more. So until then,
here's wishing you groovy tunes and cool cocktails!

Star and Venus    xxxoweoxoxolovexoxooxoyouxxxx


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:27:58 +0200
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

Ton R=FCckert wrote:

> >It could replace the "exoticaring".
>
> Nothing could replace the exoticaring...
>

OK OK, but that wasn't my main point.

I thought that my proposal may be a good compromise between the wish to g=
et
inexpensive music and the right of the artist to get paid for his/her wor=
k.
Maybe it's not really a compromise, but more of a (probably) unsuccessful
attempt to stem the flood. In the end with music it will be like with
television: It's so bad because it's free.

(Ethymological side-note: It's so funny that Americans use the word "free=
" for
"gratis", "for nothing". Freedom reduced to a business term. The real fre=
edom
is not to have to pay for. The land of the gratis.)

>Yes, you can burn your own CD, you can also print out a collection of po=
ems
>and ram a few wire stitches through it, but it would still lack the aura=
 of
>the authentic. Napster may be good for exploring, but if you really come=
 to
>love something, you would probably go out and buy it anyway.

Don't you think that when the first records came out, people said "all ve=
ry
well, but records will never replace "real" music."? I bet they did, like=
 all
technical inventions were seen sceptical by most people in the beginning,=
 and
some even with good right. I also remember when CDs came out, people insi=
sted
on having the records that they really liked on vinyl. Some still do. So =
what's
the fundamental difference between a CD and a hard disc?


rcbrooksod wrote:

>for me, nothing is better than free music

this is really too simplistic. What do you think where the music comes fr=
om
that you like to enjoy for free? Do you give your "customers" glasses and
contact lenses for free?

>you have a problem with others stealing your music
>but you don't have a problem with "sampling" "a lot of stuff"?

sampling and downloading are two different things. One is a way of produc=
ing
music and the other is a way of getting music for free instead of paying =
for
it.

Mo




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:34:20 +0200
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Batman

Dj Batman wrote:

>  Check
> for example http://www.mp3.com/djbatman and
> http://stage.vitaminic.com/dj_batman

Wow, you're a real tekkkno DJ! :-)

Like that photo and the Christmas piece.

Mo




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:49:50 +0200
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) In Flight Entertainment - Cocktail Napkin #3

speaking of it... are these programs available on CD?

Mo




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 16:55:07 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

In a message dated 7/29/00 4:29:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< sampling and downloading are two different things. One is a way of
producing
 music and the other is a way of getting music for free instead of paying for
 it.

 Mo >>

producing music?  by sampling?  and without paying the person who wrote it?

if you think that downloading mp3's from napster is stealing they you must
also think that sampling is stealing too.  to argue otherwise is hypocrisy.

again, i don't have problems with either.  but most people who sample music
have the intention of deriving income from their efforts.

tb


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:56:20 +0200
From: Dj Batman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

>everybody read that last sentence above again - the sentence starting
"Now, I
>think I am very open-minded on copyright issues."
>
>let me get this straight.  you have a problem with others stealing your
music
>but you don't have a problem with "sampling" "a lot of stuff"?

nonono... I don't have a problem with you spreading my music or things like
that. You want it for free? Ok. You can have it. FROM MY SITES, possibly.
Plus, I can always give you my own track for free; but when it comes to a
third party track that someone gives me to be administered and published
exclusively in certain channels, neither I have the right to spread free
copies everywhere...

Sampling, as I was saying in the other mail, is something different and
often part of the artistic and creative process.

>and "sometimes" you "have" to ask permission.  so sometimes you don't ask
>permission?

why should I ask permission for a sound that doesn't even sound like the
original anymore?
In "Fascinating Destroyer" there are bits of a cover of one of the
instrumentals from the soundtrack of "Titanic". Can you spot it? Of course
not. Maybe not even James Horner could.
Less imaginative/less destructive ;) uses can instead just generate legal
troubles so better asking permission before. You will be amazed in
discovering that some important folks will even let you use their sounds
for free or almost... maybe they you want you to ask politely.

>i am sorry because i cannot say this with out sounding harsh:  "sampling"
>others works is the same thing when people download mp3 WITH THE HELP of
>napster.

are you crazy? me using one second of a song in an original track, with the
application of 4 different sound effects, and you ripping a whole
commercial cd are the same?
I don't think so...

>now keep in mind i don't think sampling is bad just as i don't see how you
>can shut down a service for helping the exchange of data.  are either
>activities illegal for the "sampler" or "downloader"?  probably.  more like
>definitely. but not for the software company.

there is one concept in the italian and the US law too. It is called
product liability, if you like. I mean: the final user is responsible for
the use of the program. But the program is made exclusively for the purpose
of exchanging easily mp3s and helps committing a violation.
Also, there were rumours of Napster becoming a commercial service. Would
you pay for illegal downloads?!?

>i just don't see how you can say one is ok and not the other.

I just don't see how can you compare things that are so different...

>ok, now let's go to sampling.  those who sample are USUALLY doing it to MAKE
>money.  whether it is a dj gig or making a musical number to sell.

not necessarily. Sampling is used in several non profit and purely artistic
situations. Also, unless you are puff daddy sampling sting or things like
that, sampling is not used to make money, in my opinion. It is used like
you would use bits of pictures in a collage. You say are not against
sampling but at the same time you don't seem so inclined in considering the
existence of something claled "recombinant art".

>so with that argument the sampler is actually using SOMEONE ELSE'S
>"intellectual property" for personal profit gain.

again, not necessarily.
then, as I told you, several people ask permission to sample and share the
rights with the original authors.

>you are selling someone
>else's work. period.

again, not necessarily. period.

>now i do not believe that the argument that they are small "samples" has
>anything to do with it.  even if it is a nanosecond long, it is someone
>else's nanosecond.


but if it is looped, reversed, switched 57 halftones down, and added with
some echoes and reverbs it becomes my nanosecond.
As coldcut used to say: even Picasso took his own style from some Cretese
artist... and there are more combinations in the world of samples than in
the limited world of 12 notes...

>again, i do not have a problem with sampling or mp3 downloading -- i just
>don't think you can argue that one is wrong without admitting that the other
>is wrong (or substitute right for wrong if you like).

I am still a bit perplexed.

>and still again, i do not mean to sound too harsh.  just allowing my opinion.

ok... and I am just trying to do the same. :) Nothing personal. Heheh. :)


bye,
Nicola (Dj Batman) Battista

File Under Ecl3ctic radio
http://www.mp3.com/stations/ecl3ctic


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 22:56:14 +0200
From: Dj Batman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

>>you have a problem with others stealing your music
>>but you don't have a problem with "sampling" "a lot of stuff"?
>
>sampling and downloading are two different things. One is a way of producing
>music and the other is a way of getting music for free instead of paying for
>it.

I have of course to agree on this last point...there is nothing creative in
copying and redistributing thousands of music files. Unless you are maybe
doing it in a situationist way (say, like spreading tons of Spice Girls or
Les Baxter under the name of "Metallica_unpublished_track.mp3" and callign
yoyrself Luther Blissett. ;)

Sampling instead, it is often a form of creation of completely new sounds
and it is part of the creative process. Of course there is a lot of
unimaginative sampling out there, too...



DjB


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:10:37 +0200
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

[e-mail] wrote:

> producing music?  by sampling?  and without paying the person who wrote it?

Exactely. I mean, you *could* pay the person who "wrote" the sample if you want,
it depends on how important it is for the track you produce with it. Usually it's
just a sound or a phrase and the product you develop with the help of the sample
is something new and different. You don't sell "the sample", you sell an entirely
new piece of music, that contains a sample. If the sample is too extensive you
might get in conflict with the composer's rights, but that's independent of the
fact wether you sampled or just played the original composer's melody by
yourself. In short: As there are (pretty narrow) definitions of when composer's
rights are violated anyway, you don't need an extra-law for samples.

Mo




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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:15:25 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

In a message dated 7/29/00 4:29:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< rcbrooksod wrote:

 >for me, nothing is better than free music

 this is really too simplistic. What do you think where the music comes from
 that you like to enjoy for free? Do you give your "customers" glasses and
 contact lenses for free? >>

interesting analogy.  but i don't consider optical goods "intellectual
property."  also, glasses and contact lenses are hard to duplicate, but if a
person wanted to make a pair of the glasses or contact lenses at home on his
work bench, (assuming he could) i could not stop him.

music is considered "intellectual property" here in the states.  and guarding
intellectual property is hard.  so back to copying things in my office.  and
an analogy.

let's say a patient comes to my office for a opinion about the treatment of
glaucoma.  i spent lots of time with the patient and give him information and
my opinions (my "intellectual property").  now let's say that the person
takes the information i gave him and he goes out and tells 10 people all the
information i gave him.  i have no recourse against that individual,
especially if he DOES NOT USE MY INFORMATION FOR A PROFIT MOTIVE.  ok, so
that is not the best analogy.  too tired to come up with another one.

and mo quoted me as saying:  "for me, nothing is better than free music"

and commented that  "this is really too simplistic."

well, it's not too simplistic.  i like free music.  napster is great.  the
exchanging we do is great.  sampling by dj's is great.

my problem is that if you are going to be a purist and say that you should
not "rip off" other peoples music using a napster type medium, then you
cannot say one form of "ripping off" is ok and the other is not.  like it or
not, sampling is stealing others copyrighted material.  and the profit motive
proves it -- especially in English/American courts.

if you really feel that things like napster are copyright infringement, then
you better never sample others works, copy music (no matter how long out of
production) or join groups like the exotica ring --- all of which promote
wide scale copyright infringement.

as for me?  i will continue to copy and download like a bastard.  for those
who have received CD's from me -- you will notice that my CD's are produced
by "Bootleg Productions -  With no rights observed."

tb


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:15:08 -0500
From: cheryl <[e-mail]>
Subject: (exotica) Playlist For Space Bop, July 30

Beyond kitsch, Space Bop is one hour of full galactical wonder, and can
be heard every Sunday from 4 to 5 pm Eastern time on CKUT 90.3 FM in
Montreal, Canada, and on RealAudio (real time only, for now) at:

http://www.ckut.ca

As usual, all comments, questions, and feedback welcome.

Space Bop #103   Latin Lounge


Senor Coconut Y Su Conjunto:  Showroom Dummies  "El Baile Aleman"
Nico Gomez:  Aquarela  "La Guepe vol. 3"
Walter Wanderley:  Batucada  "Boss Of The Bossa Nova"
Sesso Matto:  Kinky Peanuts  "La Guepe vol. 3"

Nicola Conte:  Bossa Per Due  "Jet Society"
Sunny Face:  Sunny Cha Cha Cha  "Kinky Beats"
Laurent Lombard:  Latino Rigolo  "Hi-Fi Stereo Remixes"

Brazil Selection:  Ye Me Le  "La Guepe vol. 3"
Mike Young:  Si Si, No No  "El Gran Ritmo De Mike Young"
Raphael Sebbag:  Sessomatto - Les Saisons Du Plaisir (Diet Mix)
"Sessomatto Experience"

Lisa Carbon Trio:  Cuando Me Besas  "The Fez File"
Earl Bostic:  El Choclo Bossa Nova  "Jerry Larson's Happiness Cocktails"
(This is another ExoticaRing project.  Thanks, Jerry!)

Thanks for reading.


[e-mail]
[e-mail]


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:18:59 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (exotica) Fred Lowery rareity - hear him talk!  Baxter fans, READ

To all whistling fans out there - all three of you  :))

I recently received a video in the mail that contained Vitaphone shorts of
the Vincent Lopez Orchestra.   Featured are a bizarre and incredible
performance by Betty Hutton doing "Old Man Mose" (is dead) and whistling
solos by Fred Lowery on "Ride, Tenderfoot, Ride".  Lowery, outfitted in a
cowboy outfit, sits in a circle around a campfire with a bunch of other
cowpokes as Johnny Russell does the vocals.

Awesome!  My first and probably only chance to actually see my hero and THE
undisputed King of the Whistlers, Fred Lowery, do what he does like nobody
else.

In one brief appearance before Tenderfoot, Fred appears on stage and says a
few lines.

go here to download a small MP3 and have a listen to that segment:

http://www.metro.net/basichip/lowery2.mp3

...and to hear the entire "Ride, Tenderfoot, Ride" piece, go here.  lasts
about 1:30.

http://www.metro.net/basichip/lowery1.mp3

Also, check out another short MP3 of a comedy sketch between Les Baxter and
Larry Bunker from a video I have  of his sixties show.  Baxter takes on
Bunker on the vibes and bongos.  He's darn good BUT you can't beat Larry
Bunker at his own game!!  Also, Beverly Ford gives a brief demonstration of
her technique for doing birds calls.  This show is the same one Lost Episode
comes from.  I'm not sure if these segments appear on this disc as I don't
have it, so if i'm dishing up nothing new, sorry...

http://www.metro.net/basichip/baxter.mp3

this is a grainy, third generation copy and I have no means of duplicating
the tape, so no copies available.  :(((







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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:19:12 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

In a message dated 7/29/00 4:29:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< sampling and downloading are two different things. One is a way of
producing
 music and the other is a way of getting music for free instead of paying for
 it. >>

no, both are a way of getting music for free instead of paying for it.  only
with sampling, the sampler usually will "resell", in some form, the music he
has sampled and profit will be realized.

tb


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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:21:04 -0400
From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

At 02:59 PM 7/29/00 +0200, Ton R=FCckert wrote:
> the=20
>object character of a CD or a postcard strikes me as much more appealing=20
>and desirable than a virtual internet file,=20

Isn't that interesting?  At what point will music-delivering products cease
to have the shamanistic, talismanic, solid, hold-it-in-your-hand power
associated with an OBJECT?
For me, CD's already do NOT have that power. =20
I understand how they could have that power for someone, especially if
their first "record" was a CD.  And I guess I can see how digital
information on a shiny CD is more of an object than digital information
floating around somewhere inside your computer. (The ghost in the=
 machine...)
I think that in general I would prefer to have "my music" always coming
from some kind of object that I can hold in my hand and relate to.
But at this point, I basically think of that object power as a luxury.
Sometimes I can afford it and sometimes I can't. =20
If I want this much music, these many tunes to remain here in my apartment,
I need to remove a whole bunch of them from their original context - the
object I first discovered them on - and transfer them to lesser but more
"efficient" objects.
I just took a four CD "Roots n Blues" box set and put my favorite cuts on
one and a half CDR's.  I type out the song list and glue it on the front.
Plain white generic looking covers.  No pictures, no liner notes, no=
 booklet.
Just the music.
It's a lot easier for me to do this when I'm going from CD to CD since the
"original" CD didn't have that much emotional power for me in the first=
 place.
I wouldn't want to put ALL my music on some invisible hard drive hidden
behind the walls of my livingroom but like I said, sometimes having more
than "just the music" is a luxury I can't afford.

Nat



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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:27:53 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

In a message dated 7/29/00 5:00:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Sampling instead, it is often a form of creation of completely new sounds
 and it is part of the creative process. Of course there is a lot of
 unimaginative sampling out there, too...
  >>

the "creation of completely new sounds" has nothing to do with it.  when
things are sampled, often time it is OBVIOUS where the sample came from.

regardless of what is being "created" you are still taking someone else's
music and using it to your benefit.  no different that downloading mp3 and
not paying for them.

tb


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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:30:27 -0400
From: alan  zweig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Nat's documentry

At 09:57 AM 7/29/00 +0200, Moritz R wrote:
>
>Nat, you're really incredible. Before most people even got to SEE your docu,
>you are already selling the SOUNDTRACK. You know how to start a cult, don't
>you?

That was the plan.  Join the exotica list.  Start a NatKone-cult.  Then
reveal my true identity and "Oh yeah, I just made a film which is relevant
to the stuff we talk about here" (Plus you can enjoy spotting the odd
record as the image flies by.)
I won't exactly get famous but in a tiny, very exclusive,  VERY VERY HIP
community of with-it cutting-edge music freaks,  I could be a very minor
star for a little longer than fifteen minutes.  And that's all I ever
wanted really.
(Having given up on groupies and gangbangs that is...)
Please whisper my name and that of my film in all your hip circles....

Nat



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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:28:09 +0200
From: Moritz R <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

[e-mail] wrote:

> interesting analogy.  but i don't consider optical goods "intellectual
> property."  also, glasses and contact lenses are hard to duplicate, but if a
> person wanted to make a pair of the glasses or contact lenses at home on his
> work bench, (assuming he could) i could not stop him.
>
> music is considered "intellectual property" here in the states.  and guarding
> intellectual property is hard.  so back to copying things in my office.  and
> an analogy.
>
> let's say a patient comes to my office for a opinion about the treatment of
> glaucoma.  i spent lots of time with the patient and give him information and
> my opinions (my "intellectual property").  now let's say that the person
> takes the information i gave him and he goes out and tells 10 people all the
> information i gave him.  i have no recourse against that individual,
> especially if he DOES NOT USE MY INFORMATION FOR A PROFIT MOTIVE.  ok, so
> that is not the best analogy.  too tired to come up with another one.

I'm not too tired to understand that you are intentionally misunderstanding me.
You don't sell readings about glaukomia. You sell glasses. You can't copy glasses
with a click on the computer or a copy machine. If you could, you optometrists
would really have a problem. Music however can be copied, and the data itself is
what the musician is living on. So not paying for it means, the musician doesn't
get a penny from you Tikibob, music lover.

>  i like free music.  napster is great.  the
> exchanging we do is great.  sampling by dj's is great.
> as for me?  i will continue to copy and download like a bastard.  for those
> who have received CD's from me -- you will notice that my CD's are produced
> by "Bootleg Productions -  With no rights observed."

Yes yes, you little anarchist. Go tell your friend Martin Denny that you copy his
records and send to dozens of people for free and see how he loves you for doing
so.

Mo




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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:34:17 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

In a message dated 7/29/00 5:00:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< are you crazy? me using one second of a song in an original track, with the
 application of 4 different sound effects, and you ripping a whole
 commercial cd are the same?
 I don't think so... >>

i must be crazy, because i would apply the legal definition of stealing to
some one who stole a ten dollars vs. a hundred dollars.

and maybe your samples are all only one second long and changed tremendously
but a lot of the sampled songs i hear i can easily identify the sources from
where they were sampled.  have you EVER used a sound that you sampled that
could easily be identified as coming from someone else's work?  EVER?

again, my problem is that is you take someone else's work and use it you
cannot say that it is ok to do it one way and not ok to do it the other.

tb


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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 23:31:57 +0200
From: Dj Batman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Napster...

>interesting analogy.  but i don't consider optical goods "intellectual
>property."  also, glasses and contact lenses are hard to duplicate, but if a
>person wanted to make a pair of the glasses or contact lenses at home on his
>work bench, (assuming he could) i could not stop him.

but you could stop him if he started imitating your entire production of
glasses, with your logo on them and selling them like if they were your own
original production... ;)

>let's say a patient comes to my office for a opinion about the treatment of
>glaucoma.  i spent lots of time with the patient and give him information
and
>my opinions (my "intellectual property").  now let's say that the person
>takes the information i gave him and he goes out and tells 10 people all the
>information i gave him.  i have no recourse against that individual,
>especially if he DOES NOT USE MY INFORMATION FOR A PROFIT MOTIVE.  ok, so
>that is not the best analogy.

definitely not. ;)

>and mo quoted me as saying:  "for me, nothing is better than free music"
>
>and commented that  "this is really too simplistic."
>
>well, it's not too simplistic.  i like free music.  napster is great.  the
>exchanging we do is great.  sampling by dj's is great.

As I told you, please take my music for free. But from my own pages at
http://www.mp3.com/djbatman or http://djbatman.iuma.com or Vitaminic and
not somewhere else. I havet he right to give away my tracks so I think I
have the right to decide the way and the place to distribute them.

>sampling is stealing others copyrighted material.  and the profit motive
>proves it -- especially in English/American courts.

while several artists had to pay for samples, most of the times it happens
OUTSIDE THE COURRTS. Believe it or not there is only one case, in 1991 I
think, in which a judge condemned someone for sampling. (the case of Biz
Markie sampling "Alone Again (Naturally)" by Gilbert Sullivan... I think I
have it on file somewhere).

>if you really feel that things like napster are copyright infringement, then
>you better never sample others works, copy music (no matter how long out of
>production) or join groups like the exotica ring --- all of which promote
>wide scale copyright infringement.

I am not in the exotica ring mostly because I don't have time. But that is
a limited, private thing, aimed at saving and spreading certain
rare/forgotten/not too heard recordings that often aren't even in print.
I don't think the exotica ring was born to save $15 from buying a
commercial cd with the last Metallica or Madonna stuff.

>as for me?  i will continue to copy and download like a bastard.  for those
>who have received CD's from me -- you will notice that my CD's are produced
>by "Bootleg Productions -  With no rights observed."

haha. :D


DjB


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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:34:39 -0500
From: cheryl <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (exotica) Playlist for "Trance Cocktail Airlines" 7.26.00

alan zweig wrote:
>
> You notice how many other folks Jimmy sends his playlists to?  He even
> sends them directly to Ursula 1000.  I can't figure out if that's cool or
> asskissing.

Actually, we sometimes do it too - it lets the artists know they're
getting airplay.

Freebies are always a nice extra, but we pay for the majority of what we
play on Space Bop.  The musicians we play deserve as much airplay and pr
as they can get - they certainly aren't getting it on top-40 commercial
radio - and we're happy to do our part to help provide exposure to their
music over the airwaves and the net.

So I'd say it's more cool - and helpful - than anything else.  Oh, and
Nat - if you're really nice to us, we promise to play some stuff from
the Vinyl soundtrack in the next week or two ;-)

ciao,

cheryl


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End of exotica-digest V2 #766
*****************************