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dr-digest          Tuesday, January 18 2000          Volume 01 : Number 010



(dr) Hot Grips on a Suzuki DR-350 (may be off-topic)
(dr) New SealSkinz WaterBlocker Socks
Re: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000
RE: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:55:12 -0500
From: "Doug Grosjean" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (dr) Hot Grips on a Suzuki DR-350 (may be off-topic)

Greetings,

Post about HotGrips installation on my bike, a 1993 Suzuki DR-350 with
about 41k miles on it.  Posting on various lists where it might be
off-topic because most of the info applies to other bikes as well.

Bear in mind that there are several kits available from HotGrips,
check out their webpage at http://www.hotrgrips.com for the correct
one for your bike.  The grips that I ordered had a flange, the heating
wire came out of the flange, and the grips themselves are designed to
be wired in parallel.

Received my grips about a week after ordering (by printing out their
order form on the net, filling it out, and then dropping a check in
the mail) them, so service was good.

Installation instructions were included with the grips, but are also
visible at the website, along with a troubleshooting guide,  both nice
features I think.

Following the installation directions, I cut the old grips off.  Took
off my hand guards and bark busters and such for clear access to my
bars and grip area.

But before I installed the grips, I ran some tests for heat output,
current draw, and the like.

Each grip was about 10.2 ohms resistance.  Wired in parallel, the
total resistance was about 5.1 ohms.  Current draw at 13.9 volts (my
Radio Shack 12V power supply) was about 2.8 amps.

Then I got my pyrometer out.  After about a half hour, the grips (in
the living room, ambient temps 75F) had hit 155F.

Then out to the garage to finish the installation.

HotGrips have internal ribs to hold the grip / heating element up off
the handlebar, that's why I went with them.  Seems that more of the
heat would end up in my hand then in being dissipated by the
handlebar.

The grips are epoxied to the bar, and the epoxy must cure over night.
Since my garage has only a tiny electric heater, I used my 12v power
supply to help cure the epoxy, this is mentioned as being kosher in
the installation instructions.  Using the pyrometer again, with an
ambient of 15F in the garage, the grip temps were about 100F hotter at
115F.  Figuring that to be a safe level, I left the grips heated for
several hours.  There is a caution in the directions not to leave the
grips unattended, due to the high temps they can reach.  However, IMO
115F isn't that high so I felt that it would be Ok to leave them cure
at that temp for several hours.

To control the grips, HotGrips uses a 3-position (hi-lo-off) switch
and a resistor.  This is rather inefficient, so I had my doubts, given
that the DR has little of anything to spare with just 20 hp and 130
watt alternator.  Plus lacking any bodywork, I couldn't come up with a
clean install on the resistor or the switch, so I used a Heat-troller
electric vest controller that I had laying around (it was actually on
my BMW R1100RS when that bike was totaled, and was scratched and
scraped and banged up from sliding contact with the road, but since it
was functional and intact and the DR is "just" a dirt-bike, who cares
about scratches, they merely add character....<g>)

Finding a place to mount the controller on the DR was tough.  There's
little room.  Finally found that I could velcro the controller to the
right side of the instrument pod.  Then I pulled the fuel tank off,
and ran 16 gauge wire up from the battery  (16 gauge so as to minimize
voltage drops, however HotGrips supplies much smaller wire that I'd
prefer not to use), fused, noted the polarity of the various
connectors on the Heat-troller, and then snipped the connectors and
"hard-wired" the Heat-troller into my DR-350 with solder and
heat-shrink tubing.  Went around the HS areas with electrical tape so
that the mini harness that I'd created would blend right in with the
factory items.  Routed it right alongside the main wire harness, using
the various factory clips and guides, and now had power.

Two cautions here - one is that the 2 year warranty on a Heat-troller
controller is void if you replace the connectors.  I figured that
since that controller had already survived  a crash that had totaled
the bike it was mounted on, and it was a fairly high-mileage unit
anyway, so what.  Two is that I wired my grips without going through
the ignition switch, passers-by can turn on my grips and kill my
battery.  On the DR, with a magneto-CDI ignition and a kick-starter,
not a problem - the battery has no function as far as the engine is
concerned and the engine will fire right up with a dead battery.  On
almost every other bike out there, this would be a very, very bad way
to do things.

How well do they work?

Took a 10 mile ride today through the flat open farmland of rural
northwest Ohio, multimeter in the tank bag along with an SAE pig tail
so that I could monitor amperage draw of my vest while in use, ie, two
tests at once - vest and grips.  Also wanted to see just whether or
not the DR would need to have it's alternator re-wound for the ride to
Bike Week using grips and vest.  Temperature outside about 21F,
according to the local bank clock.

My DR is equipped with bark-busters and brush guards, which
effectively
stop the wind around my hands.  With just a pair of heavy Bates winter
gloves, my hands were perfectly comfortable.

However, a test back at home revealed that it could be much better.

Having my wife hold the revs at 5k rpm, I measured voltage with the
various items turned on.  With just the vest turned on, the electrical
system voltage drops from 14.4 volts to about 12.5 volts.  Turning on
the grips drops system voltage to 11 volts - so it appears that I'm
right at the limit, or beyond.  There's little doubt in my mind that
I'm asking more of the bike than what it was intended to give.

Also little doubt that with a bigger alternator, both the vest and the
grips would work even better, as system voltage would be higher, amps
would come up, and the overall wattage of the grips and vest would
increase since you'd actually be able to supply as much power as they
require.  Turning the grips off, amperage draw of the vest instantly
went up by .5 amps.

Rechecking grip temps at idle after the ride on this beautiful 21F day
showed grips at about 85F degrees - although a bigger alternator might
well bring system voltage up at idle and improve that number a bit.
No easy way for me to verify grip draw on the bike, but I suspect that
the vest and grips and battery are all fighting it out on who gets
what.  I also suspect that grip heat and amperage draw goes up when
the vest is turned off, but I don't have concrete data on how much.
Also, few bikes are as electrically challenged as my DR-350 with it's
130w alternator.

Best,

Doug Grosjean
Gr.8 Designs
Pemberville, Ohio
http://www.gr8designs.com









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 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:55:33 -0500
From: "Doug Grosjean" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (dr) New SealSkinz WaterBlocker Socks

Lists,

In light of recent articles and threads on staying warm and dry,
here's a new / revised waterproof sock I came across while studying /
researching cold weather gear:

http://news.excite.com/news/bw/000117/nv-danalco

Disclaimer:  No interest, other than wanting to stay warm and dry.

Best,

Doug Grosjean
Gr.8 Designs
Pemberville, Ohio
http://www.gr8designs.com







- -
 to unsubscribe to dr, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe dr" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:20:52 -0000
From: "Colin Parkes" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000

Hi Andy,

the CCM rideout goes around the same route more or less as Lakes & Dales
Trails....
The numbers are:-

Mark - 01539 722683
Pat - 01539 560393

They charge ú30 for the day which I think is excellent value.... Cup of tea
in the morning, guidance, opening/closing gates, they will sort out a B&B
for you....
They change the pace depending on the skills of the rider, so if you are
with a good bunch of lads, it can get pretty hairy....
I would really recommend putting Enduro or MX tires on.....
I'm pretty lucky as I can be there in just over an hour, give me a shout if
your going up there, I might come along if you don't mind, I'll have to sort
out another trailer though, mine got stolen a while back!!!

I might be down your neck of the woods in the next few months, we're
trialing some kit in Adastral Park.....

later,

Col.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:08 AM
Subject: RE: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000


> Hi Col,
>
> Nope!  Sounds great though.  We're trying to organise an offroad weekend
for
> about a dozen people at the minute...there's a Yamaha one and CCM, based
in
> Wales and Yorkshire respectively, that we've been looking at.  Do you have
> a number for the Lakes and Dales people? Could be just what we're looking
> for.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Andy
>
> DR350  Suffolk, England
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Colin Parkes [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> > Sent: 18 January 2000 10:51
> > To: andy.doyle; dr
> > Subject: Re: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000
> >
> > Andy,
> >
> > have you ever ridden in the Lake District ??
> > I've been around Coniston/Kendal way with a couple of lads who run
Lake's
> > &
> > Dales Trails.
> > Did about 100 miles in a day and only about 5 of them were on a
> > road.......
> > Had an enduro tire on the back and a "Golden Boy" trail tire on the
> > front..... Made things interesting...
> > For our American friends, the people of the Lake District have 57
> > differents
> > words for rain, and 413 for mud..
> >
> > later,
> >
> > Col.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[e-mail]>
> > To: <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:41 AM
> > Subject: RE: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dr. Tom Warr [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> > > Sent: 17 January 2000 20:17
> > > To: andy.doyle; dr
> > > Subject: Re: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000
> > >
> > > What type of riding do you do there in England?  Thanks.  tW
> > >
> > >       Do not use quotes in your message.
> > >
> > > Hi Tom!  We don't have the open spaces over here that you guys do, so
> > it's
> > > primarily a backroad and commuting machine.  There's some forest
trails
> > and
> > > green lanes open to bikes where I live on the east coast, but you have
> > to
> > go
> > > over to Wales or the Pennines to get any decent off-road distance.
Most
> > > challenging terrain is densely populated with tree huggers,
horse-riders
> > and
> > > walkers, all of whom believe that motorcycles should be limited to
> > 20mph,
> > > have 2 extra wheels fitted and have a man with a red flag walking in
> > front.
> > > For our own safety, of course.
> > >
> > > I guess about 90% of my miles are on tarmac, so I run road-biased
tyres
> > > (Avon Gripsters), which make the other 10% quite entertaining,
> > especially
> > > deep mud and wet downhill rock!
> > >
> > > Restraint was never my strong point in the heat of the moment, so I
> > bought
> > > the DR as a restraint-in-advance, licence-saving road bike initially,
> > having
> > > been pulled at 125 in a 30 limit on my previous bike.  (It was 2am and
I
> > got
> > > off with it by making the copper laugh, but I'd never be that lucky
> > > twice...they ban you if you get caught over 100 on a motorway
nowadays)
> > I
> > > ride regularly with a mix of bikes, TL1000s, Blackbirds, Blades and a
> > mix
> > of
> > > the 600 pocket-rockets...straight roads and EVERYTHING leaves me for
> > dead.
> > > Down the twisties and through town I have to stop every few miles and
> > wait
> > > for them to catch up...sounds like bragging but it happens...every
time,
> > and
> > > I'm not that good!  It's just that the DR, with a few mods, is
BRILLIANT
> > in
> > > the twisties.
> > >
> > > Most outings on the DR are <100 miles, with my GPZ being used for the
> > > distance or straight road stuff.  I've put 35,000 on the DR and 20,000
> > on
> > > the GPZ since '96, so that's the split of riding type I guess.  Only
> > ride
> > > about 360 days a year.  The other 5 I'm just TOO hungover!
> > >
> > > Youngest kid is 15, so I might even have the money so come across the
> > puddle
> > > and see some real trails in a few years!  In the meantime, 3 of them
> > keep
> > me
> > > skint.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > > '96 DR350
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > >  to unsubscribe to dr, send an email to "[e-mail]"
> > >  with "unsubscribe dr" in the body of the message.
> > >  For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
> > >  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.
> > >
>
> -
>  to unsubscribe to dr, send an email to "[e-mail]"
>  with "unsubscribe dr" in the body of the message.
>  For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
>  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.
>


- -
 to unsubscribe to dr, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe dr" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:40:16 -0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000

Thanks for that Col.  I'll give them a ring.  The group that's going =
are
basically road-racers (of the unofficial variety) who've done a couple =
of
MotoX days and fallen off a lot, so we'd definitely be looking for a
beginner pace!  2 of them race MotoX competitively, and 1 has just =
bought a
CCM604 and takes it fairly seriously, but they'll do their own thing I
guess!  Most would be looking for bike hire too as a 500 mile return =
trip on
knobblies isn't that appealing!  Give me a shout when you come =
down..most of
the nutters I ride with work at Adastral Park.  Are you BT?

Cheers!

Andy

> -----Original Message-----
> From:    Colin Parkes [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> Sent:    18 January 2000 12:21
> To:    andy.doyle; dr
> Subject:    Re: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000
>=20
> Hi Andy,
>=20
> the CCM rideout goes around the same route more or less as Lakes & =
Dales
> Trails....
> The numbers are:-
>=20
> Mark - 01539 722683
> Pat - 01539 560393
>=20
> They charge =A330 for the day which I think is excellent value.... =
Cup of
> tea
> in the morning, guidance, opening/closing gates, they will sort out a =
B&B
> for you....
> They change the pace depending on the skills of the rider, so if you =
are
> with a good bunch of lads, it can get pretty hairy....
> I would really recommend putting Enduro or MX tires on.....
> I'm pretty lucky as I can be there in just over an hour, give me a =
shout
> if
> your going up there, I might come along if you don't mind, I'll have =
to
> sort
> out another trailer though, mine got stolen a while back!!!
>=20
> I might be down your neck of the woods in the next few months, we're
> trialing some kit in Adastral Park.....
>=20
> later,
>=20
> Col.
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[e-mail]>
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 11:08 AM
> Subject: RE: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000
>=20
>=20
> > Hi Col,
> >
> > Nope!  Sounds great though.  We're trying to organise an offroad =
weekend
> for
> > about a dozen people at the minute...there's a Yamaha one and CCM, =
based
> in
> > Wales and Yorkshire respectively, that we've been looking at.  Do =
you
> have
> > a number for the Lakes and Dales people? Could be just what we're
> looking
> > for.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > DR350  Suffolk, England
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Colin Parkes [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> > > Sent: 18 January 2000 10:51
> > > To: andy.doyle; dr
> > > Subject: Re: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000
> > >
> > > Andy,
> > >
> > > have you ever ridden in the Lake District ??
> > > I've been around Coniston/Kendal way with a couple of lads who =
run
> Lake's
> > > &
> > > Dales Trails.
> > > Did about 100 miles in a day and only about 5 of them were on a
> > > road.......
> > > Had an enduro tire on the back and a "Golden Boy" trail tire on =
the
> > > front..... Made things interesting...
> > > For our American friends, the people of the Lake District have 57
> > > differents
> > > words for rain, and 413 for mud..
> > >
> > > later,
> > >
> > > Col.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <[e-mail]>
> > > To: <[e-mail]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 10:41 AM
> > > Subject: RE: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Dr. Tom Warr [SMTP:[e-mail]]
> > > > Sent: 17 January 2000 20:17
> > > > To: andy.doyle; dr
> > > > Subject: Re: (dr) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:38:50 -0000
> > > >
> > > > What type of riding do you do there in England?  Thanks.  tW
> > > >
> > > >       Do not use quotes in your message.
> > > >
> > > > Hi Tom!  We don't have the open spaces over here that you guys =
do,
> so
> > > it's
> > > > primarily a backroad and commuting machine.  There's some =
forest
> trails
> > > and
> > > > green lanes open to bikes where I live on the east coast, but =
you
> have
> > > to
> > > go
> > > > over to Wales or the Pennines to get any decent off-road =
distance.
> Most
> > > > challenging terrain is densely populated with tree huggers,
> horse-riders
> > > and
> > > > walkers, all of whom believe that motorcycles should be limited =
to
> > > 20mph,
> > > > have 2 extra wheels fitted and have a man with a red flag =
walking in
> > > front.
> > > > For our own safety, of course.
> > > >
> > > > I guess about 90% of my miles are on tarmac, so I run =
road-biased
> tyres
> > > > (Avon Gripsters), which make the other 10% quite entertaining,
> > > especially
> > > > deep mud and wet downhill rock!
> > > >
> > > > Restraint was never my strong point in the heat of the moment, =
so I
> > > bought
> > > > the DR as a restraint-in-advance, licence-saving road bike
> initially,
> > > having
> > > > been pulled at 125 in a 30 limit on my previous bike.  (It was =
2am
> and
> I
> > > got
> > > > off with it by making the copper laugh, but I'd never be that =
lucky
> > > > twice...they ban you if you get caught over 100 on a motorway
> nowadays)
> > > I
> > > > ride regularly with a mix of bikes, TL1000s, Blackbirds, Blades =
and
> a
> > > mix
> > > of
> > > > the 600 pocket-rockets...straight roads and EVERYTHING leaves =
me for
> > > dead.
> > > > Down the twisties and through town I have to stop every few =
miles
> and
> > > wait
> > > > for them to catch up...sounds like bragging but it =
happens...every
> time,
> > > and
> > > > I'm not that good!  It's just that the DR, with a few mods, is
> BRILLIANT
> > > in
> > > > the twisties.
> > > >
> > > > Most outings on the DR are <100 miles, with my GPZ being used =
for
> the
> > > > distance or straight road stuff.  I've put 35,000 on the DR and
> 20,000
> > > on
> > > > the GPZ since '96, so that's the split of riding type I guess.  =
Only
> > > ride
> > > > about 360 days a year.  The other 5 I'm just TOO hungover!
> > > >
> > > > Youngest kid is 15, so I might even have the money so come =
across
> the
> > > puddle
> > > > and see some real trails in a few years!  In the meantime, 3 of =
them
> > > keep
> > > me
> > > > skint.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > > '96 DR350
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > >  to unsubscribe to dr, send an email to =
"[e-mail]"
> > > >  with "unsubscribe dr" in the body of the message.
> > > >  For information on digests or retrieving files and old =
messages
> send
> > > >  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your =
message.
> > > >
> >
> > -
> >  to unsubscribe to dr, send an email to "[e-mail]"
> >  with "unsubscribe dr" in the body of the message.
> >  For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages =
send
> >  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.
> >
>=20
>=20
> -
>  to unsubscribe to dr, send an email to "[e-mail]"
>  with "unsubscribe dr" in the body of the message.
>  For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
>  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

- -
 to unsubscribe to dr, send an email to "[e-mail]"
 with "unsubscribe dr" in the body of the message.
 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

------------------------------

End of dr-digest V1 #10
***********************

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