ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/cdc/archive/cdc.9808

Internet Message Format | 1998-08-30 | 97KB

From: Kendle Hanna <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) dance practice?
Date: 03 Aug 1998 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT)

Hey guys,

Is this wednesday dance practice?

Ulrich von Lubeck




==
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool
Than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rebecca Mikkelsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (cdc) dance practice?
Date: 03 Aug 1998 13:29:54 -0700

> Hey guys,
>
> Is this wednesday dance practice?
>
> Ulrich von Lubeck
>
Yes!



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Seamas Connough" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Fw:      [CLANNADA] Radio Interview:  part one
Date: 06 Aug 1998 17:02:40 -0600

This is an interview which played on the radio in Georgia.  I am affiliated
with this group, and they are about as good a source for information on the
"real" celtic/pagan culture as I have found. They also have many celtic
christians, if you are interested in that path.

They take their research very seriously, unlike some celtic reconstruction
groups on the net.

http://www.clannada.org

This interview is in three parts; I will post it all here.

Am fear a thΦid san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....

--Seamas Connough MacGriogair
-----Original Message-----


>Okay, after 12 hours of pounding the keys, and fast forwarding and
>rewinding, and getting lost LOL (I need a transcribing machine!), here is
>the interview that Iain did on Talk Radio last Thursday.  It will be
>proof-read one more time prior to coding and being placed on the web site
: )
>
>Enjoy!
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Interview with Iain MacAnTsaoir on  July 30, 1998.
>Stephanie Birmingham:  WGOW - 102.3, Talk Radio, Chattanooga, Tennessee
>
>Stephanie Birmingham: Interesting topic today, we have lots to discuss.
>Probably learn something today, I'm certain I'm going to.  We've got a
guest
>in the guest booth today, in the ahh, hole.  Let me turn your microphone
on,
>there we go.  Feasgar math, ciamar a tha thu.
>
>Iain MacAnTsaoir:  Gl/e math, tapadh leat, ciamar a tha thu, ahain.
>
>Stephanie:  Gl/e math, tapadh leat, cotassa
>
>Iain:   Is mise Iain MacAnTsaoir, tha me ah, Chattanooga.
>
>Stephanie:  (laughter)  you threw one in on me there, didn't you.  Do not
>adjust your radio, its not sun spots, everything is fine.  We are talking
>about ah...the Gaelic language as a matter of fact, also known as Gaelic
>(gay-lik), actually that is a mispronunciation:  Gaelic (gah-lik) is the
way
>it's supposed to be pronounced.   Iain MacAnTsaoir, did I say that right.
>
>Iain:  Yes, close enough...
>
>Stephanie:  Close enough, alright, close enough.  Interesting spelling of
>the name, very interesting.
>
>Iain:  That's the old Gaelic spelling.
>
>Stephanie:  Have you actually changed it to the old Gaelic spelling
legally?
>
>Iain:  Not legally.
>
>Stephanie:  Okay, but that's what you use though?
>
>Iain:  But everybody knows me that way.
>
>Stephanie:  Good deal, good deal.  We're talking about Gaelic culture
today.
>Gaelic, Celtic, Celtic (sel-tik).  Is there a difference in all these
>things?  Are they the same thing?
>
>Iain:   Well, I suppose to start off we would need to define what Celtic
>(kel-tik) is.
>
>Stephanie:  Okay.
>
>Iain:  And that is the proper pronunciation of it.  The term "celt"
denotes
>culture.
>
>Stephanie:  Okay.
>
>Iain:  The first usage of the word was found in the writings of the Greek
>chroniclers, who were referring to peoples who lived to the north of them,
>in northern Europe, western Europe at the time.  The Romans referred to the
>same people as the Gauls.  After the Greek usage of the word, it fell into
>disuse up until  it became used as a nomenclature used by academia to
denote
>that particular set of cultures.  Dr. Collin Renfrew, in the Archeology of
>Language, shows how the linguistic aspects of the culture and the material
>aspects of the culture arise at the same time.  So there is no separating
>language, custom and material culture, its all part of one thing.  And in
>this case its Celtic.
>
>Stephanie:  That's what we are going to be talking about today.  And for
>those of you who do not know it, its very important, especially for a group
>of your folks,   you guys are having, what, a Gaelic Hoedown?  Is that what
>it is?
>
>Iain:  <laugh>  Pretty much... OΘnach M≤r is a "great hospitality".  Its a
>once a year "get together".  Its an organization called the Clannada na
>Gadelica.  And our focus is on Gaelic culture.
>
>Stephanie:  Its a very beautiful language.  Very beautiful spoken language.
>And I am sure we'll throw some more in.  We did some bantering.  Yes, I
>practiced...!  I practiced and boned up and ah..
>
>Iain:  She did well..!
>
>Stephanie:  Thank you, thank you very well.  We'll throw some more of that
>in there, some of the Gaelic language, as we go on.  Your turn, caller,
hello:
>
>CALLER:  Hi, umm, I have a question about a folk music festival that is
held
>in Ireland every year.
>
>Stephanie: Okay.
>
>CALLER:  I think it is pronounced "the Loch Colley"...? Or something like
>that.  And it includes violin, accordion,  ummm, maybe recorder.  I want to
>know if you are familiar with it, and I would love to know when it started,
>the origins of it, because  I've actually heard a broadcast of it on tape
>once, and it was fantastic.  And people from all over the world go there.
>
>Stephanie:  It is truly beautiful music.
>
>CALLER:  Oh, its incredible.  It's folk music.  It's not written, you know.
>Are you familiar with it?  It's a contest, and they give first, second and
>third prizes, every year, it's just wonderful.  I don't know where it's
held.
>
>Iain:  I'm not either, I'm not familiar with that festival.  What I do know
>is that it's in other Celtic countries. This would be like Scotland, for
the
>Gael, as well as Wales.  And there are six Celtic countries that still
>exist.  It is very common to find a yearly  gathering of poets and
>musicians, with there being high honors given to the best of them.  I wish
I
>had more information for you.
>
>CALLER:  Oh, that's okay.  Are you familiar perhaps with the Ulster
Orchestra.
>
>Iain:  Ahh, no sir, I'm not.  My name is Scottish decent, so I focus more
on
>that myself, though there are people of Irish decent within the
organization
>, but my particular focus tends to be on the Scottish.
>
>CALLER:  So you would  know about the Edinburgh Festival then?
>
>Iain:  Yes sir, I've not been there.  I do intend to ahh <chuckle>  get to
>the holy land at some point.
>
>CALLER:  <laugh>  Right, and I would assume that it is very popular, and
>does very well there.
>
>IAIN:  Yes sir, as well as the things that are starting to build up here in
>the states of a very similar nature.  There's the same thing that goes on
in
>Nova Scotia as well.
>
>CALLER:  Oh really, I didn't know that.  How wonderful, thank you very
much,
>I learned a lot today.
>
>IAIN:  Nova Scotia is on this continent, so its a lot easier to get to.
>
>CALLER:  <laugh> and a lot faster trip, that's for sure..!
>
>Stephanie:   Keep listening, we're going to have an interesting show today.
>Thanks,  appreciate your calling.  Our guest today is Iain MacAnTsaoir, and
>we are talking about Gaelic culture.  "Kel-tik"  is the proper
pronunciation
>of the word.  The "sel-tik"  you had explained to me a little bit earlier,
>the Gaelic language uses the hard "c"..?
>
>IAIN:   All of the Celtic languages use hard "c".
>
>Stephanie:  Is that the reason we had the "k" in the spelling?  Just so
that
>people will know?
>
>IAIN:  I think that that came up through the Romantic languages.  There was
>a separation that occurred linguistically back during the time of the
>Indo-Europeans from whence the Greeks descended, the Romans, the Germanic
>people, the Aryans of India, and it divided along a hard "c" and a soft "c"
>division, and the Celtic language is one that maintained that "k" sound.
>
>Stephanie:  The "k" sound for "kel-tic" rather than "sel-tik".
>
>Iain:  Right.
>
>Stephanie:  And there seems to be a lot of Gaelic influence that is going
>on.  Riverdance, everybody knows what Riverdance is.  The Highlander, a
>popular television show, I've never seen it actually.
>
>Iain:  Well, I think that there is a call going on in the hearts of people,
>to find their ancestral values and customs, and I think that is a sign of
>the times.  It's my personal opinion.  And through this you'll hear me
>denote what is my personal opinion and what is established fact.
>
>Stephanie:  You can do that on this show.  That's no problem.  Hello
caller,
>your turn.
>
>Caller:  This is a cel-phone and I don't know if you can here me or not.
>
>Stephanie:   Yeah, we can hear you.
>
>Caller:  Okay, great.  I'll tell you one of the most beautiful things I
have
>ever heard <noise>  Tennessee ball game and they had a group of from
>Knoxville with bagpipes and they played Amazing Grace <noise>.
>
>Stephanie:  I don't think that call's going to last.
>
>Iain:  We lost him.
>
>Stephanie:  Yeah, I think what he said was that he had heard a group of
>bagpipes playing Amazing Grace.
>
>Iain:  Yes, the interesting thing about the bagpipes is that it is a
>phenomenon that didn't arise until the sixteenth century.  So its a
>relatively late addition, although now its an icon of Scottish heritage.
>
>Stephanie:  Definitely is, yes.
>
>Iain:  Now that doesn't mean that there was not the piob, or the pipe, but
>what we understand as the bagpipe, with the multiple drones, that's a
>relatively recent invention.  Pipers and pipes have a long history in the
>Gaelic culture though, and just about anywhere you would find that there
had
>been any kind of Celtic culture, still maintains some kind of pipe.
>
>Stephanie:  You know, when people think about Gaelic culture, I assume that
>there isn't as much knowledge....you are going to be getting in-depth,
>talking about a lot of neat things, the traditions, the culture, the
>languages, the things that you do as families...which I think is a good
>thing, some things about the religious aspects of it.  If you think about
>the plaid, think about the bagpipes, think about the clans...and I guess
>that's part of it, but that's not all of it, by any stretch...
>
>Iain:  Right....well the tartan, hrmm, tartan is not a Gaelic word.  I
don't
>remember what culture that came from.  The standardized tartan that we have
>today, that came about by English intervention in the clan system, and it
>was standardized around and in the time of Culladen.  Before that the
common
>cloth was a breccan, which just meant "spotted cloth". The dyes that they
>used were what ever the local plant matter would provide for the dyes, so
>there was nothing really standardized up until the English regimented
>everything.  About the first actual tartan was the Black Watch tartan.
>
>Stephanie:  Talk Radio at 102.3, hello caller...
>
>Caller:  Stephanie, hey this is Grant.
>
>Stephanie:  yes sir, hello Grant.
>
>Caller:  I just wanted to talk to your guest here for a second.
>
>Stephanie:  Okay.
>
>Caller:  Hey I watched that movie Braveheart and ahh, you know, for some
>reason, you know, for some reason,  I know it's only a movie and stuff, but
>for some reason that movie really touched at my heart strings because of
the
>patriotism and the sacrifice those people went through, and I just wanted
to
>ask your guest if he knew if that was a quasi-true, or semi-true story
or...?
>
>Iain: Both.  They took a lot of artistic license.  There are things in
there
>that were just absolutely fictitious, or out of order, out of chronological
>sequence.  For example the banning of wearing tartans could not existed in
>the 1200s, because the tartans didn't exist in the 1200s.  But at the same
>time, Wallace as a loyal patriot is fact, and what Wallace...
>
>Caller:  There really was a William Wallace?
>
>Iain:  There really was a William Wallace, and really did stomp a lot of
>English tail, and as has always been the case with the Celtic countries, it
>was not the martial prowess of the adversary  that was the downfall, it was
>the rogues within ones own country. I think there is a lesson there.
>
>Caller:   Yeah.
>
>Iain:  And it's a history that's followed.  When you take a look at the
>Clearances, the Act of Union in 1701, the  Jacobites and the Bonnie Prince
>Charlie, and the carnage that followed after Culloden in 1746, which was
>itself followed up by the wholesale slaughter of the traditional chiefs,
and
>of the Highland people, which set the stage for the Clearances, which they
>called the Improvements. They literally moved, wholesale, people out the
>places where they had been living for half a millennia.
>
>Caller:  Like they did the Cherokee Indians here in the States.
>
>Iain:  Absolutely, it is the exact same history.  Those people where then
>sold into slavery.  Matter of fact there were around eleven
hundred....after
>the carnage at Culloden, they rounded up the survivors, and there were
about
>eleven hundred of them, and they sold them into slavery in Barbados.  Those
>whom they cleared for sheep, and to touch on this a little more....when
they
>killed off the traditional chiefs, the powers that be replaced them with
>surrogates, and these people were more at home in London than they were at
>home with their people.  And they had a very high lifestyle to maintain,
and
>to maintain that, they moved the people that had lived on the land, off the
>land, moved sheep in.  And took the people, many of the starved to death,
>lot of them froze to death, lot of them died on the coffin ships, which is
>what they were called, that brought them to the new world.  Here they were
>sold into slavery...
>
>Caller:  Irish whites?  Scottish whites?
>
>Iain:  Absolutely.
>
>Caller:  See, this is all new to me.  Sir, I thank you...its just amazing,
>the things that have went on.  And if we aren't very careful we will repeat
>them.
>
>Stephanie:  Thank you, Iain MacAnTsaoir, my guest today, talking about
>Gaelic culture, tradition, everything that is involved in it.  Actually,
>quite interesting, goes way back, talk about history...!
>All the things that are going on in Ireland right now, seems to be a
>situation of unrest, can we call it that?
>
>Iain:  Yes.
>
>Stephanie:  Is it history repeating itself?
>
>Iain:   The Northern Ireland problem has no easy solutions.  A few weeks
ago
>it was touched on, on this station, about exactly what caused the Troubles
>in the late fifties, early sixties, and has been building up to a head
right
>now.  There was a very fair proposal that was put out on the table, and the
>Irish Catholics were very accepting of it.  Because what it did was it
>provided them with equality under the law, which is something that had been
>denied before.  The Troubles started, and while its not referred to in this
>way, the Troubles started because of apartheid in Ireland.  And it was not
a
>land grab, it was not wanting lands back, it was simply that the people
were
>being  subject to inhumanity, and second class and third class citizenship
>in their own country.  What we saw the Orange doing when they were marching
>around the neighborhoods, not being let in, is the same thing they used to
>do in the neighborhoods before this agreement.  They would go in, they
would
>firebomb, they would torch, they would main, they beat up.  And that's the
>kind of thing that the Catholics had been subjected to for a long, long
>time.  The difference being that with this agreement having been in place,
>this was the first time that the world got to see it, it wasn't covered up,
>finally.
>
>Caller:  Hello, Steph?
>
>Stephanie:  Yes sir...
>
>Caller:  I'd like to ask your guest....I am supposed to be of
>Scots-Irish-English descent myself. He mentioned the rogues in the past,
>that liked to fool around with doing away whatever rights we have, as far
as
>our culture...
>
>Iain:  Yes..?
>
>Caller: I would like to know his opinion of what I think, there are certain
>people here in modern times, you know new world advocates,  that would
>support a new world government, or whatever you want to call it, in my
>opinion, that would like to pour, and bottle up in a fish bowl, every
>culture there is into one fish bowl, and I'd like to know what he thinks of
>the concept of all our cultures being taken.
>
>Iain:  Well, I am a Gaelic Traditionalist, the values and the customs, and
>the beliefs that I practice, and believe and live, are those that have been
>carried forward in Gaelic culture.  Those are the very same things that
have
>made Southerners a distinct people even here in the United States.  As far
>as what happened to the Gaelic people, there is a song called "Such a
Parcel
>of Rogues in a Nation", and I think that we could all take a look at the
>lyrics of this song, and even apply them.
>
>Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame
>Fareweel our ancient glory
>Fareweel e'en to the Scottish name
>So famed in martial story
>Now Sark runs to the Solway sands
>And Tweed runs to the ocean
>To mark where England's province stands
>Such a parcel o' rogues in a nation
>
>What force or guile could not subdue
>Through many warlike ages
>Is wrought now by a coward few
>For hireling traitor's wages
>The English steel we could disdain
>Secure in valour's station
>But English gold has been our bane
>Such a parcel o' rogues in a nation
>
>O would ere I had seen the day
>That treason thus could sell us
>My auld grey heid had lien in clay
>Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace
>But pith find power till my last hour
>I'll mak this declaration
>We're bought and sold for English gold
>Such a parcel o' rogues in a nation
>
>[Curator's Note:  This is a poem by Robert Burns, which was turned into a
>song, and has been done by many Celtic bands]
>
>Iain (cont.):  Does that answer your question on my stand on it?
>
>Caller:  Yes sir, and thank you very much.  And I believe as long as there
>are a number of people on earth that have been practicing their culture for
>all this time, as long as they are still able to practice their cultures,
>this would be a thorn in the side of whoever was wanting to advocate this
>thing about wanting to have every culture, the way I put it, in one big old
>fishbowl.
>
>Iain:  Well you know they say that America is a melting pot, and I don't
>agree with that.  We are not a melting pot, we are a beautiful patchwork
quilt.
>
>Caller:  Right.
>
>Iain:  And we are all unified under the constitution, which is a beautiful
>document unto itself.
>
>Caller:  As far as I know, they way I look at it, anyone who comes to this
>country from another, which my ancestors did, from one country to another,
>they owe their allegiance to the country they are in.  If they are here
they
>owe their allegiance to the country they thrive on, and that'd the country
>they live in.
>
>Iain:  I'm agreement with you.  I'm a former Marine,  Force Recon.  I have
>served my country proudly, and if called to do it, I'll do it again.
>
>Caller:   Yeah, I served 9 years in the service, and I served on the home
>front 42 years of working with steel, you know...
>
>Iain:  Yes sir.
>
>Stephanie:  I appreciate you for that and I appreciate your call.  Thank
you
>very much.
>
>Iain:  Thank you.
>
>Stephanie :  Iain, we talked about what is going on in Ireland, the unrest
>that's going on there...what is a clearance?  We keep hearing Clearance,
and
>I don't understand what's going on there.
>
>Iain:  A Clearance is the literal removal of people for what the
government,
>or powers that be deem an Improvement, which is what they call it.
>
>Stephanie:  A removal of people?
>
>Iain:  Literally, wholesale, going and, well, in the 1700 they would go,
any
>time, day or night, and burn the homes of  the people, down put them in
>shackles,  throw them on a ship and send them to America.  And at that
point
>in time they were sold into servitude.  Many of people that were sold into
>servitude would break out west, at that time the wilderness was just past
>the Cumberland Gap, and they would come into these wilderness areas, and
>hack out an existence, sometimes intermarrying with the native American
>peoples, which is where those of us with both heritage come from.  Some of
>them bought their freedom back, others after a time would be given their
>freedom back, but the Clearance itself was to make room for whatever the
>people in charge at the time thought would make them more money.  At first
>it was sheep, then in the 1800s because of the English aristocracies love
>for hunting in the Highlands, it became deer, and in the 40s it became
>hydro-electric stations, and the last Clearance, the last going into an
>area, literally removing the people, devoid of their possession, and well
in
>1993 it was a bulldozer, it wasn't a flame that took away these people's
>homes.
>
>Stephanie:  Interesting, I think a lot of parallels can be drawn here.
>
>Iain:  Absolutely.  History repeats itself.  There is a lot to look out
for,
>because history will repeat itself if we do not learn from it.  When the
>people were sent over here, initially the main port of entry was Boston.
>And for those of you who are searching for your ancestral heritage,
>depending on how far back it goes, that's a place to look.  Later on, other
>points of entry became Charleston and Savannah.  There was a great Gaelic
>community  around the Great Lakes, but once the English landlords came and
>moved them south.  Currently there's about 70% of the population of the
>South can trace their roots back to a Gaelic family.
>
>Stephanie:  What's that percentage again?
>
>Iain:  About 70%.
>
>Stephanie:  Okay, we are going to talk about that, a little bit more about
>genealogy.  We're going to talk about religion, of these people, the Gaelic
>people.  The Gaelic language, we've had some of that, I'd like to hear some
>more of that, so think of something snappy to tell me, its a beautiful
language.
>
>STATION BREAK
>
>Stephanie:  Iain MacAnTsaoir is my guest today, talking about Gaelic
>Traditionalist, culture, the language the history, lot of people have
called
>in, don't want to miss any of these callers.   Hello...
>
>Caller:  Dia dhuit.
>
>Iain:  Dia dhuit.  That's Irish.
>
>Caller:  Yes, it is, it translates to "welcome, and may god be with you".
>
>Iain:  Are you a speaker of Irish?
>
>Caller:  No, that is about the only phrase I know.
>
>Stephanie:  You did well.
>
>Iain:  See, one of the things that we are trying to accomplish, and I we're
>going to be seeing this more around the country...the Clannada has just
>broken up into a Tuath  system of so that there are regional bodies, and we
>are trying to get together study groups, work groups, for people to learn
>both Irish and Gaelic.  I was hoping that you were a speaker...!  I was
>going to draft you.  <laugh>
>
>Caller:  Well, it's a very difficult language, actually, and the way that
it
>is spelled, you would not think that the way you would pronounce it would
be
>the way you would from its spelling.
>
>Stephanie:  When he was trying to teach me the Gaelic language I spoke
>earlier, he spelled it out phonetically, just a long hand as he could
>possibly do it.  Because you are right, it is spelled very, very
differently
>from the way it is spelled.
>
>Iain:  They're simplifying the system what my fear is that when they alter
>the way things are written now, they are going to loose a lot.  They have
>lost a lot with standardizations in the past, and I think they are going to
>loose more if they tinker with it any more.
>
>Caller:  Right, but it is a very, very beautiful language, both the Irish
>and the Scottish.
>
>Iain:  Yes, it is.
>
>Caller:  But the reason I was calling is that when I was younger I was just
>infatuated with Ireland, I thought it was a beautiful country.  The reason
>that I am calling is because there were a few points I wanted to make for
>people that were interested in the Irish Culture.  I am not much up on my
>Scottish, or else I would plug that as well, but apparently they are going
>to have a lot the same characteristics.  The Irish, and you were talking
>earlier about the IRA and the whole problem in Belfast.
>
>Iain:  right...
>
>Caller:  There was a book, and I believe it's called the Oxford Illustrated
>Study if Ireland, or something along those lines.
>
>Iain:  The Illustrated History of Ireland by Oxford University, it's a
great
>book.
>
>Caller:  Yeah, and I was reading it, and this has been
>
>CONTINUED IN NEXT E-MAIL
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"little acts of kindness, little words of love, make out earthly home
>like heaven above"
>Rickie Lee Jones
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Seamas Connough" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Fw:      [CLANNADA] Radio Interview:  part two
Date: 06 Aug 1998 17:09:23 -0600


Am fear a thΦid san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....

--Seamas Connough MacGriogair
-----Original Message-----


>Iain:  The Illustrated History of Ireland by Oxford University, it's a
great
>book.
>
>Caller:  Yeah, and I was reading it, and this has been years ago, and I
>haven't picked it up in probably four years ago, and a lot of the problems
>were there, and I think that probably they main stream problems with
Ireland
>was during potato famine, which was I think around 1860...
>
>Iain:  You mean the famine that wasn't...?
>
>Caller:  Well, actually it was, because there were millions and millions of
>Irishmen that starved, because of that.  And the main reason, from what I
>gathered, and this is from talking to people who actually were from Irish
>descent, who lived in Ireland and moved over here, and knew a lot more
about
>the history, were saying that what it came down to was that the English,
and
>this is simplified, the English were the landlords, and the Irish were like
>the servants, and what happened was the English sought out the potato,
which
>I think there were other things too, but the potato, because they were so
>harvested over there, they were like the main staple over there I guess...
>
>Iain:  Well, of the common people...
>
>Caller:  When the English came over into Ireland, and they took the
>potatoes, and basically what they did was they sold the potatoes elsewhere,
>and they gained revenue from it.
>
>Iain:  Okay, the potato famine, and when I referred to it as the famine
that
>wasn't, Ireland was a very productive country, always has been.  And they
>were producing other staple grains, cattle, other things, and all that
stuff
>was being shipped off to England, leaving the potatoes for the common
folks.
>And what happened during that period was that there was a blight which
>struck the potatoes, so that the common folk didn't have what they were
>given to eat.  And that's where the starvation was coming from, there was
>plenty of produce coming out of Ireland, it was just going to England, and
>you're right, it was sold off.  It was used by the English people and sold
>to the markets.  So, when I said that it was the famine that wasn't, I am
>making a slam against the English.
>
>Caller: Right.  And that's the big problem with Belfast.  And this is
>simplifying it, and this is the way that I understood it from this
>individual, the reason being is that the Protestant people that live in
>Belfast, you have a street, and literally one side you have the Protestants
>and one side you have the Catholics.   And the way that this person
>explained it to me was that the Protestants basically...  people assumed
>that they were behind the Church of England, and the Irish Catholics were
>from the old Gaelic tradition of being the Irish Catholics.  And it
>basically symbolized that they were for the English, basically, more than
>they were for their own culture, and this is very simplified, I am sure
that
>it could go very lengthy and very detailed...
>
>Iain:  Yes, we could do three or four shows on just this topic and still
not
>touch it.
>
>Stephanie:  You made some very good points though and I have enjoyed them,
>for sure.
>
>Caller:  And umm, so basically...what happened was, when they see these
>people and they see the Orangemen, they think that they are standing up for
>England and to them that's an insult, because when you look at the potato
>famine, and you look at the landlords, and like you were saying earlier
>about being second and third class citizens.  The other thing about the
>Irish tradition, if people have never heard of it, they are very beautiful
>rings, and they are called Claddahg rings.  And they have two hands that
are
>holding a heart, and on top of the heart there's a crown, and it symbolizes
>friendship, love and loyalty.  And back in the olden days, most of the
>people that were wed in Ireland used the Claddagh ring, because it
>symbolized their ideas and you can go into other interpretations of it
also.
>And the thing about the Irih tradition, and I don't know about the
Scottish,
>is that every Christmas, and this is the old way, I don't know if they
still
>do this, but they probably do, but the old way was that Christmas, they
>would leave a candle or some type of light in their porch, so if fishermen
>or traveler were hungry or cold, if they light was on they could come to
the
>door or knock on the door and the people would actually invite them in so
>that they could be warm.  So I thought that was a pretty neat tradition.
>
>Stephanie:  It's a charming tradition, yes, thank you for calling, and for
>what you shared.
>
>Iain:  The old customs, they are just amazing, they are gracious, and warm,
>they're giving.  We talk about Southern hospitality that comes right from
the...
>
>Stephanie:  Now you're going to offend somebody if you're not careful.  One
>of those hate-mongers...
>
>Iain:  Well, I am not going down that road, no...I am a Southerner and I am
>proud of it, and there is something to be said about Southern hospitality,
>and it does come from those immigrants who first came over here.  Maybe now
>is the time to start talking about Gaelic Traditionalism.
>
>Stephanie:  Maybe it is...
>
>Iain:  We define Gaelic Traditionalism as a culturally based spiritual
path.
>As a spiritual path there is no separation of what I do on an ordinary
bases
>from what I do for my own spiritual edification.  Every moment of every
day,
>every thought, word and deed, has spiritual significance.  It's a spiritual
>path.  It's founded in my hearth, in my own home, and that's were it
starts.
>Like I said, it doesn't separate the spiritual from the ordinary.  The
>tenets  of Gaelic Traditionalism are the values, the beliefs, the customs,
>the methodologies, languages, structures, all of the components of the
>Gaelic culture, from its conception to its fragmentation.  And what I mean
>by fragmentation, we talked about the demise of the clan system with
>Culladen, and what has happened in Ireland and all of that, but the
>individual customs are acts, at any given moment in the day, which have a
>spiritual significance, it's to acknowledge the ancestors, which whether we
>are talking Iron Age Gaels or Celts, all the way through to the  Celtic
>Church,  up to the modern era even today, there are still acts of
venerating
>the ancestors.  There are acts of venerating the spirits of place, forests,
>lakes, each one of these has a difference spirit, so there is a respect
>relationship with the land around us.  Where things differ between those
who
>hold to a classical mind frame and those who are within the Christian
>context, and that is the only place where there is any difference, is those
>of the classical mindset view the world as having been birthed, and the
gods
>were birthed, and those who hold to that mind frame are polytheistic.
>Whereas within the Christian context, God the father created the world,
>manufactured the world. That is about the only difference. The values of
the
>two groups are the same, the customs...as a matter of fact the customs were
>carried over into this modern era by Christian folk.   So there is nothing
>that needs to be made up, it all still exists as it existed.  Maire
MacNeill
>was going to do a study of the extant customs regarding the four holidays,
>the holy days.  She was going to do all four, and what she found was that
>there was tons of information on all four of these specials days, that she
>had to narrow it down to one of the holidays, and even then had to leave a
>lot of material out.  There was just so much material regarding the old
ways
>that are still practiced in the old countries.
>
>Stephanie:  There are plenty of those to talk about...hello caller....?
>
>Caller:  Hello Iain...?
>
>Iain:  Hello
>
>Caller: Hello, I have to jump on you a little bit.  My drill instructors
>taught us, beat into us, that there is not such thing as a former Marine.
>
>Iain:  <laugh>  No, there is no such thing as an ex-Marine.
>
>Caller: Well, former active duty, maybe...
>
>Iain:  Well, okay there we go, we're in agreement...
>
>Caller:  Okay, semantics, semantics...
>
>Iain:  Semantics undo a lot of good work..
>
>Caller:  Uh-huh...couple of questions here, you mentioned that there are
>still....did you say seven or eight, Gaelic nations?
>
>Iain:  There are six Celtic nations...three of those are Gaelic, and those
>would be Man, Ireland and Scotland.
>
> Caller:  Okay
>
>Iain:  The rest of them Brythonic, that would be like Breton, Wales and
>Cornwall.
>
>Caller:  Oh okay, .... So it's right in those three little islands right
there.
>
>Iain:  Yes sir, we got pushed to the wall and we couldn't go anywhere else.
>
>Caller:  Okay, another question too, and then I am going to go, you had
>uhh...well....I went brain dead...<laugh>
>
>Iain:  <laugh>  I understand that....
>
>Stephanie:  You're on the radio, so you run your mouth in spite of that
<laugh>
>
>Caller:  Well, I can't do that....
>
>Iain:  It's a microphone thing...
>
>Caller:  Well, yeah, and the longer I stay on hold sometimes the more
>nervous I get...
>
>Stephanie:  Okay...I got it...point taken...!  Well you can call back,
how's
>that...?
>
>Caller:   Okay...thanks...
>
>Iain:  For who are interested in the carryover of Celtic ways here in the
>South, there's an excellent book called Cracker Culture, Celtic Ways in the
>Old South, by Grady McQuiney, it's put out by the University of Alabama
>Press, it's highly recommended.
>
>Stephanie:  Okay, we'll talk about that some more, we are talking about the
>Gaelic culture, Celtic, Traditionalism.  Iain MacAnTsaoir, here the guest
>booth, talking about Gaelic culture and tradition.  Callers, thank you for
>holding...hello, are you there?
>
>Caller:  Hello, Stephanie...?
>
>Stephanie:  Yes, hello...
>
>Caller: Okay, hello...I have been sitting here listening with a whole lot
of
>interest in your show, and it's kind of made me think perhaps maybe I might
>be able to get an answer to a question I have had here recently while
trying
>to trace back my own roots.
>
>Stephanie:  Okay.....
>
>Caller:  My grandmother's grandfather came here from Ireland.  I found that
>out thinking that, well name is MacClure,  I found that out and was kind of
>surprised because I am thinking that sounds like a Scottish name, and I am
>just getting in to trying to do the research and all,  come to find out
that
>most likely, from tracing it back a little further, that they did come from
>Scotland to Ireland.  There was some kind of wave  of immigration from
>Scotland to Ireland, about 500 years ago, and then from there, they went
>through some type...these people were mainly Church of Scotland...they came
>over to Ireland...
>
>Iain:  That was at the behest of the English government...
>
>Caller:  Yeah, and at some point there they kind of fell out of grace
>because of their religion there in Ireland, and were pushed on out of
>Ireland, or were, ahh, persuaded to think that things might be better here
>in America than they were in Ireland at the time.  And I am just trying to
>go through this, like I said, finding little hints here and there...what
>exactly were they being persecuted for in Ireland at the time that put them
>over here..?  And this may be a little off topic, but it seems like you
have
>enough knowledge of the history over there to perhaps set me straight.
>
>Iain:  Well, I think that a lot of the Scots people that ended up in
Ireland
>ended up in a vice, because you had the Catholic population of Ireland, and
>then you had the English church, and then you had these people of the
Church
>of Scotland that were just kind of dispossessed from their homelands, and
>for some reason there has been an enmity between Scots and Irish, even
>though the Scottish were originally Irish if you go back far enough.  I
>think it would depend on the region and the circumstances.  The Clannada
has
>a website with all kinds of information on it, and the URL is
>www.clannada.org.  And there are several libraries in there that you might
>check out, and that you might find interesting.
>
>Caller:  Okay, thank you, I appreciate that.
>
>Stephanie:  Thank you very much for the call.  I do want to talk a little
>bit about religion when we come back after the break.
>
>STATION BREAK
>
>Stephanie:  Iain MacAnTsaoir is my guest today and we are talking about
>Gaelic Traditionalism...hello caller, it's your turn.
>
>Caller:  Hello Stephanie....Mr. MacAnTsaoir...I'd like to do a little
>research here if I can...
>
>Iain:  Yes sir...
>
>Caller:  A Scottish Rite here in the United States, you all are part of
>that, right?
>
>Iain:  What now?
>
>Caller:  Scottish Rites...
>
>Iain:  Masonry?
>
>Caller:  Yes..
>
>Iain:  The Clannada is not part of Masonry...
>
>Caller:  Oh, they aren't?
>
>Iain:  Not, its not...it is an organization that started about 5 years ago,
>and its sole focus in on researching, preserving and teaching about Gaelic
>traditions and customs, and everything that deals with Gaelic Culture.
>There is a growing body of us who are taking the fruits of that research
and
>putting it into practice in our own lives and our own homes, and actually
>living those customs and those values again.
>
>Caller:  I see...well I was trying to do a little research here on the
>Masons and the ...
>
>Stephanie:  We are going to be doing a show on that next week.
>
>Caller:  Pardon?
>
>Stephanie:  We are going to be doing a show on Free Masonry next week
>Thank you very much...next caller?
>
>Caller:  I wasn't on hold this long, so I didn't get nervous <laugh>
>
>Stephanie:  <laugh>  Good...
>
>Iain:  That's okay, I'm still here, and  am <laugh>
>
>Caller:  Iain, my first question here is, we here names.....is there any
>differentiation between, you know you hear....there's an automatic
>presumption that if.....ahh, MacIntyre, MacIntosh, Mac....ahh...is either
>Irish or Scottish...is there any differentiation between Irish and Scottish
>surnames....?
>
>Iain:  There are....most of the old names are related to the work that
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"little acts of kindness, little words of love, make out earthly home
>like heaven above"
>Rickie Lee Jones
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Seamas Connough" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Fw:      [CLANNADA] Radio Interview:  part three (end)
Date: 06 Aug 1998 17:24:43 -0600


Am fear a thΦid san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....

--Seamas Connough MacGriogair
-----Original Message-----


>Caller:  Iain, my first question here is, we here names.....is there any
>differentiation between, you know you hear....there's an automatic
>presumption that if.....ahh, MacIntyre, MacIntosh, Mac....ahh...is either
>Irish or Scottish...is there any differentiation between Irish and Scottish
>surnames....?
>
>Iain:  There are....most of the old names are related to the work that the
>originator,  that first ancestor did.  Like in my name, MacAnTsaoir, the
Mac
>denotes "son of"  and the rest of the name is "a carpenter".            So
>that first MacAnTsaoir, the progenitor of the clan was a carpenter.  As far
>as finding it in other Gaelic areas, like finding Scottish names in
Ireland,
>yes, you'll definitely find that there are MacIntyres in Ireland.  Now part
>of the Clann lore says that we invaded Ireland at some point in the past,
>and that's why at least some of branches of the family are there.  But if
>you go back far enough, you'll find out that the Gaelic people ended up in
>the Argyll part of Scotland, through the Dal Riada, or the followers of
>Riada.  So those were Irish folk who went over to Scotland, so you are
going
>to have some sharing of names there.  And of course, linguistic evolution
>and all that, you are going to end up with changes and variances there.
>
>Caller:   Okay, so the difference between a McIntire, or Mac....would be
>kind of like a friend of mine, just to throw a name out, his name is
>Scoggin, and there is also another branch of the clan that puts an...its
>Scoggins with an "s".  Now this is a fellow that's not even in this state,
>but he says that the Scoggins boys were the ones that always got accused of
>stealing other peoples horses...<laugh>
>
>Iain:  I thought that was the MacGreagors, but okay...<laugh>  But that's
>cattle...
>
>Caller:  So the rest of them drop the "s"....
>
>Iain:  I understand <laugh>
>
>Caller: okay....
>
>Iain:  Well, I know that if we are talking over here, and in my family,
>well, in the MacAnTsaoir clan there are several septs of the clan.  And
>these names are considered septs because they are MacAnTsaoirs but they
>changed their names over here to avoid British bounty hunters when they
>escaped out of servitude.  So they just changed the name slightly.  So
there
>has been a lot of that going on.
>
>Caller:  I often have to wonder how many of our names got changed
>because....I am told that my grandfather changed his name because his
>teacher said he was spelling it wrong, and she changed it.
>
>Iain:  Well....that was nice of her....
>
>Caller:  Well, you know....Alabama....<laugh>  Sorry, Steph....
>
>Iain:  Not only the families were working to do that for them selves but
>there were instances when people would come through Ellis Island and be
>asked their names, and the people would state what their name was, and the
>authorities would write their name down as it sounded to them.  There  were
>also instances when people changed their name just to hide their ethnicity.
>When I was growing up there were some polish people that we lived next to,
>and they had taken the "ski" off their name just to hide that..
>
>Caller:  Yeah, that happens a lot, I am sure with some of those folks...
>
>Iain:  And the same thing with Gaelic people...I mean, it was only in the
>60s that there were signs up in restraints saying "no Irish"  or "no
Scots"...
>
>Caller:  You're kidding, where was that?
>
>Iain:  In the north...
>
>Caller:  I don't remember that...
>
>Stephanie:  Northern United States?
>
>Iain:  In the northern states..
>
>Stephanie:  You mean there was prejudice there?
>
>Iain:  Absolutely.
>
>Caller:  Well, my experience has been, and I spent most of my growing up
>years in Michigan....my experience has been that there is more prejudice in
>the north than down here...
>
>Iain:  Absolutely.
>
>Stephanie:  That has been my direct experience.  That's been what I have
>seen with my eyes.
>
>Caller:  Yes, and I don't care what your other guy at the station says
there
>Steph <laugh>  Anyway...going on to language.  The Gaelic language, I
>remember from taking Spanish....when you go to high school in California,
>everybody takes Spanish, because it's so easy, except that you get the
slang
>mixed up with the real stuff.  In Eastern Europe, most of the French,
>Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, and Latin, those are considered "romance
>languages" because they are softer than the Germanic derivatives, Swedish,
>Finland, German...
>
>Iain:  Well, they derive from the Roman language, from Latin.
>
>Caller:  Right...and does Gaelic fall into either one of those categories
or
>is it in a category of its own?
>
>Iain:  It is a Celtic language.  That's part of what Dr. Collin Renfrew
>explained in the book, Archeology of Language, was the division of the
>languages, and there are several branches of language that descend back
into
>what is called the Indo-European, and then the Proto- Indo-European people.
>And what we know of that language is all hypothetical at this point, and it
>is something that they put back together as a research tool.  But the
Celtic
>language was a branch unto itself.  It is very similar in many regards to
>Germanic, with the hard "k", remember at the beginning when we discussed
how
>it broke down into two basic compartments...?
>
>Caller:  Uh-huh.
>
>Iain:  One being the soft "c" sound and then the hard "k" sound.  But then
>once that division occurred, there were other divisions that also occurred,
>so the Celtic languages exist unto themselves.
>
>Caller:  Darn....you're a pretty smart guy for Recon...
>
>Stephanie:  He's got it going on, doesn't he?
>
>Iain:  <laugh>  Why thank you, sir.
>
>Caller:  The reason I ask that is because is was stated to me at one time
>was that the reason we have so many brown haired, blue eyed people in
>Ireland, but I guess some Scotsman too, are because of the Norsemen coming
>over and hauling off the woman, having their way with them and throwing
them
>off the ship to swim to shore, but I didn't know how much truth there was
to
>that.  I can imagine that with some of the invasions like that that some of
>the language would be picked up, but I didn't know much it got diluted or
>bastardized.
>
>Iain:  Then there's also the natural evolution of languages. And something
>you touched on about all of the people with blue eyes and brown hair, you
>know, its important to denote here that when we are talking about the
>Gaelic, we are talking about a culture, a not race.  If you will take a
look
>at the Gaelic areas, well, let's look at Ireland.  There's evidence that
>there were Phoenicians there, there were Greeks there, there were these
tall
>Indo-European, blond haired, blue eyed people there, and they all mixed
>together.  Collin Renfrew in that book, and its an excellent book,
>Archeology in Language, discusses how they had the various people that
would
>come in through the influx of settlement, and then they would inter-marry.
>So there was never a pure race, it was a culture, and there is a very sharp
>distinction to be made between the two.
>
>Stephanie:  I appreciate you calling, thank you very much.  Hello, caller?
>
>Caller:  Hello, Steph...as always, my compliments on your varied
>programming.  A question, and then I'll hang up.  I don't know if this has
>been touched upon, but I was just wondering about the history of the
druids,
>and the druid religions and what have you, in the Gaelic culture.
>
>Stephanie:  Good question, we'll get into that.  I'm from Tuscaloosa, it's
>called the Druid City, so I have heard about this all my life.
>
>Iain:  I thought you were about to slip out of the closet with a robe and
>tell me you were a druid....!
>
>Stephanie: No...no, no...
>
>Iain:  Okay, if we are talking historically,  there's not a whole lot from
>the cultures themselves that say what a druid was.  What is relied on is
>mainly the writings of the classical writers of Rome and Greece.  It is
>written that the druids performed in a myriad of capacities within Celtic
>culture.  They were doctors, they were lawyers, on and on.  They were said
>to have been amongst the most brilliant natural philosophers.  Beyond what
>we are told there, who knows?  What is has evolved into or what it had
>evolved into, and has been carried over into the language has been
basically
>a wizard, or sorcerer.  But as far as their station in the culture itself,
>all we can say is that they were obviously people of high skill, high
>intelligence.  Peter Berrisford Ellis, in the Druids, states that they were
>simply the intelligentsia of the culture.  They were the highest trained,
>they would be like the Ph.D.
>
>Stephanie:  Now where do the trees come in?
>
>Iain:  There is good information and there is bad information, and I don't
>like to speculate.  There is a lot of speculation that goes on.  In Gaelic
>Traditionalism, we don't have any druids.  There are none.  Everything we
do
>is hearth oriented, personal life oriented, family oriented, and community
>oriented, and each person is considered capable and responsible of
mediating
>the gods on their own behalf.
>
>Stephanie:  And we are going to talk about that.  You know I brought up
>Tuscaloosa being the Druid City, everything in Tuscaloosa is Druid City
>this, Druid City that....I always heard that they were those who they said
>worshipped trees.  Maybe that was a poor way to describe it.  Maybe that
>goes more into the paganism side.
>
>Iain:  We can touch on that too.
>
>Stephanie: We can talk about that next.
>
>STATION BREAK
>
>Stephanie:  Iain MacAnTsaoir is my guest, we are talking about Gaelic
>culture, traditionalism.  We talked about the language at the very
>beginning, a beautiful language, I really enjoyed that, I learned it
>quickly, thanks to the phonics, playing the phonics game.  You brought up
>something that is very interesting, that is part of this that I want to
talk
>about.  Actually the caller before brought it up, and that is the religious
>aspects of Gaelic culture, Gaelic tradition.  You have made some excellent
>points to me as we have talked some off the air,  about how family centered
>and family oriented this all of is, it's a great thing. If you don't get
>your kids into something, they are going to find something to get into.
>
>Iain:  Well, there's a country song that says, "If you don't stand for
>something, you'll fall for anything".
>
>Stephanie:  Aaron Tipton, yeah, I remember that from my days in country
>radio.  But I have my kids, we do church, they are involved in that, as
well
>as some other things that they enjoy doing.  But what you are telling me is
>that this is very hearth centered, I think that's the way you put it, and I
>think that's a good thing.  What about that?  What about the religious side
>of it?  The  Christian, the pagan, these apparently both meet.
>
>Iain:  Yes, they do.  Let us establish the reason why, for the hearth
focus,
>and the "no priesthoods", because there are no priesthoods.  It's "each is
>responsible".  Our morality is what is referred to as the "heroic
morality",
>which is best typified by the statement that was given to Patrick when
>Patrick first went into Ireland as a missionary, and that is, "Truth in our
>hearts, strength in our arms, and fulfillment in our tongues".  Purity of
>heart, strong in fulfilling out responsibilities, and to tell the truth,
>which is something that both those of the classical mind frame and those of
>Christian mind frame share, the values.  I prefer to use the phrase
>"classical" classical mind frame, or mind set, as opposed to "pagan"
because
>there is just a bunch of connotations, baggage that comes along with it,
and
>there is nothing inherently wrong with word, it's got a history of its own,
>it refers to country dwellers.
>
>Stephanie:  It's very, very misunderstood.
>
>Iain:  It's very misunderstood, and if I say "classical" then there is less
>misunderstanding.  It is very hearth oriented.  Peter Berresford Ellis
>refers, in his book, The Druids, to the very real phenomena in Celtic
>cultures, where people have almost a suspicion of priesthoods.  Nora Jones,
>in Power of Raven, Wisdom of Serpent, talks about how in Gaelic culture,
>people take care of their own spiritual needs.  I'll take care of mine as
>best I can, and you would do the same for you.  If you needed a hand, as
>your kin, I'd be there.  As a people whose practices and beliefs are hearth
>oriented, in our own homes, and this is the very foundation of it, I don't
>know of a Gaelic Traditionalist that doesn't have an area in their house
>that is established just for spiritual purposes.  It's set aside, it's a
>special place.
>
>Stephanie:  Like an alter?
>
>Iain:  Well, there's an alter that sits in this area.  And it can be a
>little area or it can be a big area, it depends on them.  It depends on
>their tastes and what they've got handy, but there is someplace in the home
>where they can go escape.  They can study, if they are Christian, the
Bible,
>and the old lore, the Triads, and the law and such.  If they are of a
>classical mind set they can study the lore, the values, the same things,
and
>many of us also study the Bible too.  In that set aside area, which we call
>an annat, we will have an alter set up.  There will be symbols that have
>meaning to us, spiritual significance to us.  We will sit with the
children,
>we will go over values, we will go over lore.  This is what separates those
>of a classical mind set from others of the pagan community, is that the
lore
>is vitally important to us.  It not only plays out the turning of the wheel
>of the year, but it shows us how we are supposed to live, with strength
and
>with  honor, and fulfilling our duties.  So we will sit there and we'll go
>over these things within our own selves, with our families.  We'll pray
>there, we'll study there, we'll meditate there.  It's family, and that's
>what matters.  And that is a Southern thing too, it's the family that
>matters, we have responsibilities.  As a matter of fact, I know of two
>instances where prior...one of them is a Christian family and the other is
a
>classical family...where the kids were on Ritalin, and the parents were
>scattered, doing their own thing, and the kids were basically raising
>themselves.  They came across us and it sang to them, and so they started
>putting this into practice.  They put up a sacred area in their house, and
>put up a family alter, and spent time there.  They read the Bible, read the
>old lore, and those kids are no longer on Ritalin.
>
>Stephanie:  That's a good thing.
>
>Iain:  There is structure, there's quality time, there's love, and there's
>role models for these kids to emulate.  These are heroes in the old lore,
>and everybody wants to be a hero.
>
>Stephanie:  So when you have these celebrations like the one you were
>talking about this weekend, do you do the traditional dress, do you have
the
>traditional music, is there like a re-enactment?
>
>Iain:  No...nobody is running around in a kilt, we are just real people.
>There are folks that work in steel mills, there are folks who work in a
>refinery.  We are just real folks, its not a re-enactment, it is something
>that we live.  We are very connected to the members of our hearth, our
>family, and to our community too.
>
>Stephanie:  Hello caller...
>
>Caller:  Hello Stephanie, there are a couple of points I wanted to touch
on,
>and then I had a question for Iain.  My first one is, I know that the Irish
>would knit sweaters,  and if the fisherman drowned, or if their ship sank,
>they could identify the body due to the pattern on the sweater.  I am just
>curious, the Scottish, when they wear their kilts, do the certain tartans
>represent the different families?
>
>Iain:  Now days, yes ma'am.
>
>Caller:  Okay, because I was curious about that.  And the other point I
>wanted to touch on was, I was watching a special on PBS, and I can't think
>of the name of it, but it dates back to a long time, where the Scottish,
and
>they take those huge timbers and the toss them?
>
>Iain:  Caber tossing?
>
>Caller:  Caber tossing....and I was just curious, do any of those go on
>around here that you know of?
>
>Iain:  There is a big Highland festival that happens up at Grandfather
>Mountain...I think it has just passed.  There is another one that goes on
>just north of Atlanta, and you might check with the Chamber of Commerce in
>that area, it's one of the mountains, but it isn't coming to mind, I am
>sorry, but it is just north of Atlanta where they have another Highland
>Festival.
>
>Caller:  Wow, because this is very interesting and I am sure you can attest
>to this, and I would like to think that I have done a pretty good amount of
>research, and you sound like you know more about your Scottish heritage and
>the traditions than I do about my Irish....but if you can attest to this,
>there is something about it, whether it be your heritage or not, when you
>start researching the Irish or the Scottish, or whatever, it's there like a
>passion there,  and like you yearn to learn more and more and more about
it,
>and you just find you just find yourself drawn into it and everything
amazes
>you...?
>
>Iain:  Umm, you are absolutely correct.
>
>Caller:  There is something mystical about it.
>
>Stephanie:  Is this part of your heritage also?
>
>Caller:  Actually, I think there is some Irish, but I know the predominant
>heritage of mine is Swedish.  But there is just something about Ireland,
>it's just one of those weird, it's a mystical kind of thing.  And the
>caller, when, earlier, and you hit it right on the head when you said the
>Irish were discriminated against.   I can't remember the book, but it seems
>like there was this black and white photo and they had a flier, but it
>looked like it was on a telephone pole, and it was an Irishman, but they
had
>him drawn as a baboon.  And the whole theory was that Irish are drunkards,
>and just horrible things.
>
>Iain:  Well, I think that anytime you have a state of conflict between
>people you are going to have instances where those who are on the receiving
>end are demonized.  Adversaries have to demonize you, they have to
>de-humanize you to live with themselves, otherwise how could you do this to
>a fellow human being?
>
>Caller:  Right.  And I was just wondering if the Scottish had any profound
>effect like that, with drawing them as perceived as drunkards, and as
>baboons, and horrible things, did the Scottish people ever have to go
>through that too?
>
>Iain:  Yeah, in certain places, and at certain points in time.  Not
>presently, but there have been instances in time, and in particular when
the
>biggest part of the Clearances were going on, that was a big thing, they
had
>to do that to enslave these people, because they had to de-humanize them.
>
>Stephanie:  Thank you, caller.  Iain MacAnTsaoir is my guest, talking about
>Gaelic culture, and we are going to tell you all about it in the next 20
>minutes, right?
>
>Iain:  <laugh>   Time flies when you are having fun.
>
>STATION BREAK
>
>Stephanie:  Caller, go ahead.
>
>Caller: There was one thing that I wanted to ask, was if he could give that
>web address again, and also ask about a family, the Anderson family.  Are
>the Highlanders or Lowlanders?
>
>Iain:  Off the top of my head I couldn't tell you.  Another thing that
might
>help you on the web site, there is one page, you will get to a main menu,
>there is another page that specifically deals with genealogy.
>
>Caller:  Okay, and finally a comment.  It is my understanding that the
>reason the Scots were drummed out of Ireland and into Scotland was indeed
>reportedly religious, it came down to money, as so many things do.  The
>British were doing the same things in the Lowlands of Scotland as they did
>later in the Highlands.  They discovered they could make more money off the
>land by raising sheep, and selling the wool, so they began to throw the
>small farmers and the small businessman off their lands.  These people were
>"kirk" and not "cathedral", and the "kirk" members went to Ireland to seek
>freedom, and they ran into trouble with the Roman Catholic Church, so they
>came onto America.  Also they were sometimes encouraged to rejoin the
>Catholic Church by...now I am not against the Catholics, I'm just quoting
>history...
>
>Iain:  You don't have to be against something to tell the truth.
>
>Caller:  that's true...by methods that included, but were not restricted
to,
>burning at the stake, drawing and quartering, suffocation by pressure..
>
>Iain:  Drowning...
>
>Caller:  Drowning, yeah, they had all sorts of really cute ways of saving
>your immortal soul, back then.  But that's why they came over here, and
once
>they got over here, they tended to....number one, they did not like holding
>other people in slavery or in bondage, and number two, they tended to want
>to go off, by themselves, into the frontier, and have the least possible of
>government
>
>Iain: That's true.
>
>Stephanie:  How scandalous....!
>
>Iain:   Bless their hearts, they gave us a good system to work with.
>
>Caller:  Yeah, but according to that cousin, the Andersons were Lowlanders,
>but my Aunt Maggie over in Charleston told me they came from so high in the
>Highlands they had to wear longjohns under their kilts.
>
>Stephanie:  I appreciate you, thanks for calling.  Hello caller.
>
>Caller:  Hi, I just wanted to let you guys know the Highland Games in
>Georgia are at Stone Mountain, and they are at the third full weekend of
>October.  And the Grandfather Mountain games have already passed, and they
>are always the second weekend of July.
>
>Stephanie:  Now what are the Highland games, specifically, what do they
involve?
>
>Caller:  All kinds of stuff.  You can't compare the two, but I think the
>Grandfather Mountain Games are the best.
>
>Stephanie:  Is this a big "Y'all Come"?
>
>Caller:  Yeah, its huge, they have a lot of traditional games.  The have an
>event called tossing the sheath, that came from when they had barns full of
>hay, they'd have to have the skill, of course, of tossing it up into the
top
>of the barn, and it kind of turned into a competition of who could toss it
>the highest.
>
>Stephanie:  Is that not a great thing to do with kids?
>
>Iain:  Yes, it is..
>
>Caller:   Yes, it's awesome.  It is so cool, they have so many people there
>from everywhere.
>
>Iain:  And there are clans representatives there so that you can register
>with your clan.
>
>Caller:  There is music going on all day on two or three different stages,
>there's craftsman, competition all day for four days in a row.
>
>Stephanie:  I appreciate your information, thank you.
>
>Iain:  Thank you.
>
>Caller: Thank you, bye.
>
>Iain:  We were talking about spirituality, and it's a very holistic
>spirituality.  Dealing with it as parents, fulfilling your responsibility
>with your children in teaching, and in spending time, but even  in the
>Gaelic world view, and I imagine in the other Celtic cultures, the world is
>seen as a cauldron, and it sits upon three legs, and those three legs are
>the sky, the sea and the land.  And there is not really an elemental system
>as we have come to understand elemental systems from the Greek pattern of
>air, fire, earth and wind.  You've got the three realms that make up the
>world, and as far as the cosmos there direct relationship between the
people
>and the cosmos, and what they call a dhuile system.  There are nine
>components, and each one of the components that make up the world, we also
>contain within ourselves.  So there is this direct relationship of
>macrocosm/microcosm.
>
>Stephanie:  It's interesting, and you were talking earlier about everything
>starting at the hearth, and it's very family oriented.  What about the home
>schooling?
>
>Iain:  There are a number of families that have gone to home schooling, and
>it's just a whole lot better approach in the minds of a  lot of people.
>
>Stephanie:  Is that a cultural thing, or is it just more practical, and
just
>what they have chosen to do?
>
>Iain:  I think it is a cultural thing.  We are just not pleased with the
>lack of values, because the culture we live in now has no values of it's
>own.  Which I think is part of the importance of  finding the ancestral
values.
>
>Stephanie:  Now, I am going to almost disagree with you, you can't remain
>morally neutral.  Somebody's values are going to be put upon you, and
unless
>you choose to teach your kids, somebody's values are going to get through.
>I understand what you have said, and I think we are in agreement.
>
>Iain:  Yes, we are in agreement.
>
>Stephanie:  Just playing antics with semantics.  I always making a point
>though, that moral neutrality...nope...
>
>Iain:  There is no such thing.  And as far as, even in the classical mind
>frame, the concepts of good, bad, right and wrong, far pre-date the
>Christianity.  I mean, the Greeks, read Plato, read Aristotle, Wendy
Donegar
>O'Flahraty has show how it is an ancient Indo-European concept, good and
evil.
>
>Stephanie:  Yes.  Talk Radio, 102.3, hello caller.
>
>Caller:  I wanted to say how much I really enjoyed today's show.  I am
going
>to be doing a lot of research and reading, because this is so interesting.
>I also wanted to ask, did I miss something at the beginning, did I
>misunderstand...did you started to talk about some sort of celebration or
>festival that is coming up?
>
>Iain:  Well, at this point the Clannada has got what is called  An O/enach
>Mor, a "great hospitality" going on, and the leadership the has gotten
>together to try to figure out what we are going to do and how we are going
>to do it.  The end result of this is that we are going into regional
bodies,
>so there is going to be whole lot more going on.  In this Tuath, this
region
>of Chattanooga, one of the things that I want to get going is that I need
to
>try to find speakers of the Gaelic languages, Irish and Scots.  I'd like to
>find those who know the dances, the reels and such, so that we can start a
>database, because a lot of people want to know this, they want to learn
>these things.  So I'd like to find people who speak it, and in lieu  of
>that, to start discussion groups  and workshops on the language so that we
>can start learning this.  Here in Chattanooga, just  like other folks there
>right now probably discussing these things as we speak here, are going to
be
>doing this in their areas.  But yes, there is a celebration going on, and
it
>is in conjunction with Lughnasad, which is one of the four high days, and
is
>tied into mythology.  But that is local to the area.
>
>Caller:  Is that for anybody?
>
>Iain:  Well, this year it wont be.
>
>Stephanie:  Appreciate you calling.  Talk Radio 102.3, hello caller?
>
>Caller:  Hi Stephanie, I think you are about to answer my question, I
wanted
>the URL.
>
>Iain:  www.clannada.org
>
>Caller:  And Stephanie, if you'd have interesting programs like this all
>day, I'd let the answering machine catch my telephone so I wouldn't miss
>these things.
>
>Iain:  Thank you, sir.
>
>Stephanie:  Okay <laugh> well, I always try. Thanks a lot. What that a
>compliment, in a backhanded way?
>
>Iain: Well, I took it that way.
>
>Stephanie:  Still have some time left, one more phone call.
>
>Caller:  Hello?  The young lady who called about the Highland games, they
>have them all over the eastern part of the united states, they have them up
>and around New England, up in Delaware and in Maryland.  The other young
>lady said the best one was in Grandfather Mountain.  And, the first year we
>went up there we were going up the road to see a meadow, and as we were
>driving up this road, way in the distance you could hear this bag pipe band
>playing....and I am telling you, talking about getting the hair raising on
>your arm, the sensation, it was the most beautiful sound.  And then on
>Sunday morning, when they had the gathering of the clan in the meadow,
where
>only men are allowed there, they all are out there, each with their own
>family and their own tartan, from young men carrying their tiny little boys
>with their tiny little kilts on, and a bagpipe band leading them, and they
>march around then they meet all together in this huge...its just a sight to
>behold.  And the games themselves, the caber tossing, and the tossing of
the
>sheath, where they take the bales of hay and toss them with a pitch fork
>over their shoulder to see how high they can toss it, they throw this stiff
>handled hammer, here in the United States, the hammer is on wire...but it
is
>like a regular sledge hammer, but you throw it for distance, and it's
really
>exciting...  The caber toss came from when they were warring and stuff, and
>they came to a river and needed a bridge, they would strip down these trees
>and then they would have to toss it across.  And the idea is to toss it in
>as straight a line as you can get.
>
>Stephanie:  That's very interesting, thank you for the information.  Sorry
>to cut you off but we are out of time.  Iain MacAnTsaoir, a couple of
>seconds to wrap up...
>
>Iain:  Well...
>
>Stephanie:  You haven't prepared a closing statement, have you?
>
>Iain:  <laugh>  I had not prepared a closing statement....
>
>Stephanie:   We talked today about Gaelic culture, tradition, language.
The
>part that appeals to me the most is what you said, obviously, it's hearth
>centered, family oriented, set aside family time, talk about lore, the
>religious aspect of it.
>
>Iain:  Absolutely.
>
>Stephanie:  Traditions, the songs, the dance, that you share with your
children.
>
>Iain:  And your relationship with Spirit, however you envision it, is
yours.
>And I think it is vitally important in a day when the culture that we live
>in does not provide any real values, that we take back something, something
>of substance.  We are all Southerners here, and there's a lot of this that
a
>lot of us grew up with because we were Southern, and unfortunately those
are
>the things that a lot of people tried to stomp out.
>
>Stephanie:  Well, this isn't part of my heritage, the looks are deceiving,
I
>guess, but it is very interesting to me, and something I am interested in.
>It started out with an interest in the music, and now, thanks for telling
me
>about the festivals, they sound great.
>
>Iain:  Well see, that's the interesting thing about the Clannada, is that,
>you dont have to have Gaelic heritage to be involved with it.  And to take
>that a step outside of the Clannada, of Spirit talks to your heart, then it
>is up to you to listen to the call of Spirit, wherever that leads. And
>that's up to you, that's between you and God, or you and the Gods, or
>however you define that.
>
>Stephanie:  And once again, the website it www.clannada.org.  Appreciate
you
>being a guest here today, thank you.
>
>
>Iain:  Tapadh leat
>
>Stephanie:  What?
>
>Iain:  Thank you, tapadh leat
>
>Stephanie: Ahh..!  Tapadh leat!
>
>
>END INTERVIEW
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"little acts of kindness, little words of love, make out earthly home
>like heaven above"
>Rickie Lee Jones
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Seamas Connough" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Fw:      [CLANNADA] Scottish Histories on CD-ROM's
Date: 06 Aug 1998 17:27:35 -0600


Am fear a thΦid san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....

--Seamas Connough MacGriogair
-----Original Message-----


>Got this in the Clannada box, and thought I would forward it on.  Can't
make
>any statements about the software or the information contained therein,
just
>thought some might find this interesting.
>
>Kathleen
>
>>>
>>>The Scotsman, Scotland, has an article about a new and young
>>>multimedia company in Edinburgh, making CD-ROM's of
>>>Scotland's history:
>>>http://www.scotsman.com:80/interactive/it14firm980805.1.html
>>>
>>>    Excerpts are included.
>>>    The entire article should be read for accuracy and completeness.
>>>
>>>Loch Sloy!
>>>Tuan Today
>>>Lowell McFarland <[e-mail]>
>>>*******************************
>>>    The Scotsman
>>>    Outline of Scotland's story makes pleasant companion
>>>
>>>   IN the top flat of a tall tenement at Edinburgh's Merchiston
>>>Crescent, a district regarded as the natural habitat of Jean
>>>Brodie, the novelesque spark for the ignition of booksellers'
>>>prime profits, the stuff of Scottish history is being produced
>>>which the tempestuous teacher, who liked education to be
>>>dramatic and adventurous, would have approved.
>>>
>>>   Here, in a CD-ROM entitled The Companion To Scottish
>>>History, the tumultuous tide of events that shaped a nation
>>>from the 1500s to the present, are produced at a mouse click -
>>>the fiery fulminations of John Knox, Bonnie Dundee brutally
>>>harrying the Covenanters, Prince Charlie's army marching to
>>>ignominy at Derby and defeat at Culloden, the union of crowns
>>>and parliaments, the Enlightenment and the industrial and social
>>>changes that have led to devolution and, maybe, to
>>>independence.
>>>
>>>   Renascence for the Scots is in the emotional air. Scotland is
>>>not only seeking a new identity but also wants information about
>>>the old one and the spin-off has been a teaching resurgence in
>>>schools of Scottish history. Citizens and tourists of Scottish
>>>descent are not only increasingly buying books about the
>>>country's past but are searching the information technology
>>>market for easy-to-use software.
>>>
>>>   It is because of a perceived software famine that Dunedin
>>>Multimedia was formed in 1995 with the managing director
>>>Robert Clyde, 34, from Dallas, Texas, and the director, Iain
>>>MacArthur, 37, and the artistic and marketing director, Gordon
>>>Shillinglaw, 28, multimedia expert, both from Edinburgh.
>>>
>>>   "Scottish history text books are available," said Robert, "but
>>>they are all published down south and there is no software so
>>>we are plugging a gap in the market."
>>>
>>>   Robert, married to Grangemouth-born Mairianna who is doing
>>>a Ph.D. in Scottish history, thought of forming the company in
>>>1991 while researching documents in Scotland relating to early
>>>American history. A friend, lecturing at Strathclyde University,
>>>showed him an early interactive computer programme called
>>>Hypercard. "I thought it would be an excellent way of
>>>delivering Scottish studies, especially Scottish history and
>>>education materials, to schools."
>>>
>>>   While working with his friend on a multi-media programme
>>>through Strathclyde University and aided by grants of ú15,000
>>>from the Scottish Library and Information Council, Robert
>>>decided that he wanted into educational software publishing.
>>>
>>>   Since it was launched a year ago, sales of the Companion,
>>>aimed at a reading age of 14 and upwards, have been
>>>encouraging with orders from shops, schools, libraries and
>>>tourists, not only in Britain but all over the history-interested
>>>world.
>>>
>>>   The product, price ú34.99, is based on A Companion to Scottish
>>>History by historians Ian Donnachie and George Hewitt and
>>>originally published by Batsford, a London company. It is now
>>>out of print but the authors have contributed extra material for
>>>the CD-ROM.
>>>
>>>   The company's two other CD-ROMs, Squatters and Saints,
>>>dealing with Scotland and the making of Australia and the
>>>History of the Highland  Clans, both retailing at ú28.99, achieved
>>>satisfactory sales but the trio are hatching a disc that, they hope,
>>>will "jump off the shelves" at the public. Basically two CD ROMs
>>>in one, and entitled The Scottish Wars of Independence/Virtual
>>>Castle, its first section will be aimed at children aged five to 14
>>>and will be based on Doune Castle Perthshire, built in 1390.
>>>
>>>   Without the excessively chauvinistic Braveheart factor but
>>>with virtual reality techniques displaying attack and defence
>>>tactics, it will show 360 degrees views of the castle's interiors
>>>and surroundings, including battlements, great hall and
>>>dungeons.
>>>
>>>   It will also give the castle's history, including its combating
>>>classes and servants. The second section will recount Scotland's
>>>struggles against the Auld Enemy. It will be in the prime business
>>>of, entertainingly and profitably, putting informed heads on
>>>young shoulders. As Miss Brodie might have said, "full marks".
>>>
>>>
>>




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Olan G Mikkelsen"<[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Slavic Interest Group
Date: 11 Aug 1998 08:51:02 -0600


Camilla,
Please contact me privately, I've lost your address.
Landolf





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Seamas Connough" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Fw: Crofting & Runrig
Date: 14 Aug 1998 20:14:55 -0600


Am fear a thΦid san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....

--Seamas Connough MacGriogair



>
>This is from the Scottish Culture ling from the Runrig
>page:
>
>Crofting is a "system of hereditary tenure of individually
>held small
>patches of cultivated land combined with communal
>use of grazing land"
>(Ducey 1956: 38). Plots of land average between 5
>and 10 acres. Crops
>include oats and hay for the stock, plus a few potatoes
>and garden
>vegetables for family use. A farmer also generally has a
>few cows
>and one or two dozen sheep. Each crofter in a
>township also has rights
>to share in a large area of grazing land. The communal
>element of
>the crofting system is the distinguishing feature of land
>use and
>community life of the Highland Scots. The effective
>economic unit
>is not the individual farm, but rather the communal
>crofting township.
>
>The crofting system of land use and township
>organization grew up
>in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Previously
>the land was
>held by clans and distributed to clansmen in a "runrig"
>system of
>widely dispersed holdings. This system was also to a
>large extent
>communal, but the focus was upon the clan. The clan
>was a four-generation,
>patrilineal family, whose members could trace descent
>from the founder.
>It was headed by a chief, who, in addition to being a
>father figure,
>was the administrator and lawgiver to the clansmen.
>Local representatives
>of the chief were called tacksmen. Clansmen were
>given land as joint-
>or sub-tenants of the chief and/or tacksman. The entire
>social and
>economic life of the community was centered upon the
>clan. When the
>system of land use changed and the clan declined, the
>family structure
>also changed into what Ducey calls an "amorphous
>extended family."
>
>With the decline of the clan system, the community
>became more geographically
>oriented. The primary difference between crofting and
>the runrig system
>is that in crofting, individual holdings are consolidated.
>With the
>Crofters Holdings Act of 1886, crofting areas were
>defined, and assurance
>was given of security of tenure, hereditary succession,
>and fair rent.
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________

  Heart in Hands
CLANNADA NA GADELICA            http://www.clannada.org
_____________________________________________________________





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Seamas Connough" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs....
Date: 15 Aug 1998 23:54:14 -0600

Hai a chairdean;

When exactly is harvest war?  I need to let my sister know, as she wants to
bring her family and her husband wants to put on some loaner armour and
"give it a try."

Am fear a thΦid san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....

--Seamas Connough MacGriogair




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "jcrow     " <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Harvest War
Date: 16 Aug 1998 22:00:09 -0000

Harvest war is set for the 18th 19th and 20th of September.

I was just wondering is there anyone in the shire (besides myself that is)
that would be interested in playing some of the competitive scottish games
at Harvest war (Caber toss, Toss the rock, the sheep throw ect....).

Let me know via the list or at fighter practice if you are interested and I
will provide further information. (You dont have to be a scot to
participate)

Angus if this interfears with any of your plans or with your office as
Event Steward I sincerly apologise and will call the whole thing off.

p.s.  Ladies can participate if they wish but special arrangements must be
made in advance.




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From: "Seamas Connough" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (cdc) Harvest War
Date: 17 Aug 1998 01:40:45 -0600

Sounds like fun. Count me in, Clansman!

Am fear a thΦid san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....

--Seamas Connough MacGriogair
-----Original Message-----


>Harvest war is set for the 18th 19th and 20th of September.
>
>I was just wondering is there anyone in the shire (besides myself that is)
>that would be interested in playing some of the competitive scottish games
>at Harvest war (Caber toss, Toss the rock, the sheep throw ect....).
>
>Let me know via the list or at fighter practice if you are interested and I
>will provide further information. (You dont have to be a scot to
>participate)
>
>Angus if this interfears with any of your plans or with your office as
>Event Steward I sincerly apologise and will call the whole thing off.
>
>p.s.  Ladies can participate if they wish but special arrangements must be
>made in advance.
>
>




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From: "Olan G Mikkelsen"<[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (cdc) Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs....
Date: 17 Aug 1998 08:04:34 -0600


Harvest War is not the time or place for someone to 'put on some loaner
armor and "give it a try''', at least not in the melee scenarios.  If your
brother-in-law wants have a go at you in single combat under the
supervision of marshals that's fine, but I, for one, will not allow anyone
who hasn't had at least a little training onto the field.  I realize that
we have been very lenient in the past, allowing just about everyone who
showed up to fight, but that attitude needs to change and we will conduct
more thorough checks of authorizations, weapons, and armor this year.
Landolf





[e-mail] on 08/15/98 11:54:14 PM

Please respond to [e-mail]

cc:    (bcc: Olan G Mikkelsen/IS/BCBSU/TBG)




Hai a chairdean;
When exactly is harvest war?  I need to let my sister know, as she wants to
bring her family and her husband wants to put on some loaner armour and
"give it a try."
Am fear a th?id san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....
--Seamas Connough MacGriogair











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From: "Seamas Connough" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (cdc) Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs....
Date: 18 Aug 1998 17:26:03 -0600

Landolf;
 I understand that.  I told him he couldn't be in the battles, but I was
sure we could give him the basic "fighter 101"  experience.  Everybody has
to start somewhere, right?

Am fear a thΦid san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....

--Seamas Connough MacGriogair
-----Original Message-----


>
>Harvest War is not the time or place for someone to 'put on some loaner
>armor and "give it a try''', at least not in the melee scenarios.  If your
>brother-in-law wants have a go at you in single combat under the
>supervision of marshals that's fine, but I, for one, will not allow anyone
>who hasn't had at least a little training onto the field.  I realize that
>we have been very lenient in the past, allowing just about everyone who
>showed up to fight, but that attitude needs to change and we will conduct
>more thorough checks of authorizations, weapons, and armor this year.
>Landolf
>
>
>
>
>
>[e-mail] on 08/15/98 11:54:14 PM
>
>Please respond to [e-mail]
>
>To:   [e-mail]
>cc:    (bcc: Olan G Mikkelsen/IS/BCBSU/TBG)
>Subject:  (cdc) Cry havoc, and let loose the dogs....
>
>
>
>
>Hai a chairdean;
>When exactly is harvest war?  I need to let my sister know, as she wants to
>bring her family and her husband wants to put on some loaner armour and
>"give it a try."
>Am fear a th?id san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....
>--Seamas Connough MacGriogair
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Seamas Connough" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Fw: (Chat)The Haca
Date: 18 Aug 1998 18:17:47 -0600


Am fear a thΦid san dris,  fimridh e tighinn aiste mar a dh' fhaodhas e....

--Seamas Connough MacGriogair
-----Original Message-----


>Dia Dhaoibh, a liosta,
>
>here is an interesting link that may not be specifically Gaelic but
probably
>of interest to many of you. It is to the Historical Armed Combat
Association
>home page. These guys treat the weapon arts of western Europe just as many
>groups treat Karate and Gung Fu. as a martial art and not a game or
>roleplaying association. in many respects they remind me of the clannada in
>their search for truth and knowledge. There are several study groups around
>the country...one in Chattannooga(wink, wink ) And several others
>forming....like here in Ohio. If you are interested in the history and use
>of the european armed Martial traditions...this is a great place to spend
>some time.
>
>http://www.thehaca.com
>
>Slan
>Cinaet
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>
>  Heart in Hands
>CLANNADA NA GADELICA            http://www.clannada.org
>_____________________________________________________________
>




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From: "Olan G Mikkelsen"<[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Bjorn's Thing
Date: 21 Aug 1998 07:59:41 -0600


Rixa,
Will you contact me privately with whatever information you have about
picking up Dell(sp?), the young man from Brigham City?  If anyone else has
info concerning this topic, please contact me.
Landolf





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From: "Tiffany Dillemuth" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (cdc) Bjorn's Thing
Date: 21 Aug 1998 15:30:04 PDT


I think Arkasha and I are coming up tomorrow morning (with possibly one
other passenger).  Arkasha's been a bit under the weather.  If there are
other stragglers tomorrow, feel free to give me a call; we might have a
last minute opening in the car space.

Camilla

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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From: "Rebecca Mikkelsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) (Fwd) Kingdom Collegium--Instructors Wanted
Date: 24 Aug 1998 10:12:58 -0700

This was posted on the Artemisian list.  Landolf and I will be going.
If anyone else would like to go, we can take up to 4 more
(comfortably) or 6 more (cozily).

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Reply-to:      [e-mail]

Unto the fine people of Artemisia does Lady Gillian and the people of Ard
Ruadh send glad tidings!!!

We have just received approval from Their Royal Majesties Alan and Corisande
to host the Kingdom Collegium on November 14th and 15th.

It is now my pleasure to begin searching out the fine talents of the
populace as instructors for this event.  If you are interested in teaching
your knowledge, please contact me right away so we may complete the class
roster.  Email me PRIVATELY at [e-mail] or call me at
435-674-1833 or write to me at 1450 N. Dixie Downs #114, St. George, UT 84770.

We are very excited to have the opportunity to encourage so many of the
populace to join us down here for the fine November weather of southern
Artemisia.

In service,

Lady Gillian
(Fraya Davis)
Autocrat and MoAS Incipient Shire of Ard Ruadh




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From: "Rebecca Mikkelsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) (Fwd) Forwarding, OOP Humor.
Date: 25 Aug 1998 08:30:20 -0700

This was posted on the Artemisian list.  I thought those of you who
are working on a thesis or will be soon would find it humorous
========================================================
>Scene: It's a fine sunny day in the forest; and a rabbit is sitting
>outside his burrow, tippy-tapping on his lap top. Along comes a fox, out
>for a walk.
>Fox: "What are you working on?"
>Rabbit: "My thesis."
>Fox: "Hmmmmm. What is it about?"
>Rabbit: "Oh, I'm writing about how rabbits eat foxes."
>(incredulous pause)
>Fox: "That's ridiculous! Any fool knows that rabbits don't eat foxes!"
>Rabbit: "Come with me and I'll show you!"
>They both disappear into the rabbit's burrow. After a few minutes,
>gnawing on a fox bone, the rabbit returns to his lap top and resumes
>typing. Soon a wolf comes along and stops to watch the hard working rabbit.
>(Tippy-tap, tippy-tap, tippy-tippy-tap).
>Wolf: "What's that you are writing?"
>Rabbit: "I'm doing a thesis on how rabbits eats wolves."
>(loud guffaws).
>Wolf: "You don't expect to get such rubbish published, do you?"
>Rabbit: "No problem. Do you want to see why?"
>The rabbit and the wolf go into the burrow, and again the rabbit returns
>by himself. This time he is patting his stomach. He goes back to his typing.
>(Tippy-tap, tippy-tap, tippy-tippy-tap).
>Finally a bear comes along and asks, "What are you doing?"
>Rabbit: "I'm doing a thesis on how rabbits eats bears."
>Bear: "Well that's absurd!"
>Rabbit: "Come into my home and I'll show you."
>SCENE: Inside the rabbit's burrow. In one corner, there is a pile of fox
>bones. In another corner is a pile of wolf bones. On the other side of
>the room a huge lion is belching and picking his teeth.
>MORAL:
>It doesn't matter what you choose for a thesis topic.
>It doesn't matter what you use for your data.
>It doesn't even matter if your topic makes sense.
>What matters is who you have for a thesis advisor.



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From: "Rebecca Mikkelsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) (Fwd) Peer Circles/Rapier Champion
Date: 25 Aug 1998 08:32:21 -0700

Forwarded from the Artemisian List. . .

Because the King and Queen will be at the war, with peer circles and
the rapier championship, we can expect a larger-than-usual
event.

Greetings Artemisia,

We would like to announce that Peer Circles will be held at Gryphon's Fury,
Harvest War and Crown Tourney.  Please pass the word onto gentles who may
not have access to the Aerie.

We will be holding a tourney for the Kingdom Rapier Champion at Harvest War.
We also urge members of the populace to watch this splendid combat.

Yours in service to Artemisia,

Alan and Corisande, King and Queen of these fine lands of Artemisia





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From: "Tiffany Dillemuth" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Fwd: From the Ironrose list...
Date: 26 Aug 1998 11:15:39 PDT


Thought you all might get a kick out of this too!
Camilla


>Backward Compatibility
>
>The U.S. Standard railroad gauge (distance between rails) is 4 feet,
>8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge >used?
>
>Because that's the way they built them in England and U.S. railroads
>were built by English expatriates.
>
>Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail >lines
were built by those who had built pre-railroad tramways and >that is the
gauge they used.
>
>Why did they use that gauge then? Because the people who built
>tramways used the same jigs and tools for railroads that they used >for
building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.
>
>So why did wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Because that is the
>spacing of the old wheel ruts.
>
>And who built these old rutted toads? The first long distance roads >in
Europe were built by Imperial Rome for their legions.
>
>And the roads have been used ever since. The initial ruts which
>everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were
>first made by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for or
>by Imperial Rome, they all had the same wheel spacing.
>
>Thus, we have the answer to the original questions. The U.S. standard
>railroad gauge of 4 feet 8.5 inches comes from the original
>specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot.
>
>So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what
>horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the
>Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to
>accommodate the back-ends of two war horses.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



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From: "Tiffany Dillemuth" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) For Sale...
Date: 27 Aug 1998 12:42:59 PDT


For anyone who knows a new fighter looking for armor, I am going to sell
my leather lattice vest.  I know no one has seen me in it since I
haven't fought since I moved here, but I'll bring it to practice! :)

I've gotten too big for it and have plans to build a better-fitting and
lighter-weight piece.  The vest fits a female between the sizes of 8 and
14.  Personally, I think it might be more ideal for a young man because
of the "chest" factor.

Thanks!!

Lady Camilla



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rebecca Mikkelsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (cdc) Renaissance Faire
Date: 31 Aug 1998 13:49:27 -0700

Landolf, Grainne, and I went up to 1,000 Eyes this weekend to help
them with their Renaissance Faire.  It was poorly attended and I
think everyone there agreed that publicity was the main reason.  So
Landolf and I have been trying to think of ways to increase publicity
for *our* Faire and thereby increase the money raised for the
Whittier Center.

Some ideas:

On the day of the Faire have a couple of fighters on the sidewalk in
front of the Tabernacle doing some mock battles.  Have one of the big
signs right by them.   Main street is pretty busy from about noon to
4 pm on Saturdays.

I talked to the Cache Valley Mall about an idea.  They are very
willing to do this and it would be absolutely free.  The idea:  The
Saturday before the Faire we could do a demo at the Mall.  They have
a stage we could use (those of you who have been around a while will
remember the demo we did in the mall about 6?7?8? years ago).  We
could do fighting, dancing, a little Shakespeare, some music,
whatever we wanted to.  We could also hand out flyers.  "Kevin"
suggested being there from 1-4 when the Mall is busiest.

Have some people in garb go to the big grocery stores on the day of
the Faire and hand out flyers for an hour.

I realize that these ideas take extra time and effort, but publicity
is the #1 thing that will make or break the Faire attendance.  I
also think we will be able to get more help from other groups this
year since we don't conflict with any events.

Another publicity idea is to put a banner accross main street.  It
will cost about $200 for the banner (we might be able to get a
discount, though) and $50 for the city to put up and take down the
banner.  Banners can be up for two weeks.  I think $250 for two weeks
worth of advertising that will reach nearly 100% of the Cache Valley
population is worth it.

I would like to see the Faire attendance explode this year. What do
you  think of raising the price from $2 to $3 per person for an
"all-day pass"?   I have been coming up with ideas for new things.  I
have contacted someone about horse rides.  I will ask 1,000 Eyes if
they want to do the photo booth they do at their Faire as a Baronial
fundraiser with part of the money going to the Whittier.  Grainne
suggested doing pomander balls, and I thought I would call the Beauty
schools or Beauty shops to see if they want to come do hair braiding
with ribbons and flowers in the hair.  Any other ideas?

Give me some feedback.

Rebecca