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abolition-usa-digest     Sunday, December 17 2000     Volume 01 : Number 405




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:13:30 -0500
From: ASlater <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) Fwd: [Mike's Message] A Simple Q & A That Every American Should Read

>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:50:59 -0500
>Subject: [Mike's Message] A Simple Q & A That Every American Should Read
>Priority: non-urgent
>X-FC-MachineGenerated: true
>To: [e-mail]
>From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
>
>December 14, 2000  evening
>
>Dear friends,
>
>Please take a few moments and read this excellent piece on the Supreme
>Court's decision that made Bush "president." Pass it around to all your
>friends. It's the best thing I've seen.
>
>Yours,
>
>Michael Moore
>[e-mail]
>www.michaelmoore.com
>
>A LAYMAN'S GUIDE TO THE SUPREME COURT DECISION IN BUSH V. GORE
>by Mark H. Levine, Attorney at Law.
>
> Q:  I'm not a lawyer and I don't understand the recent Supreme Court
>decision in Bush v. Gore.  Can you explain it to me?
>
> A:  Sure.  I'm a lawyer.  I read it.  It says Bush wins, even if Gore
>got the most votes.
>
> Q:  But wait a second.  The US Supreme Court has to give a reason, right?
>
> A:  Right.
>
> Q:  So Bush wins because hand-counts are illegal?
>
> A:  Oh no.  Six of the justices (two-thirds majority) believed the
>hand-counts were legal and should be done.
>
> Q:  Oh.  So the justices did not believe that the hand-counts would
>find any legal ballots?
>
> A.  Nope.  The five conservative justices clearly held (and all nine
>justices agreed) "that punch card balloting machines can produce an
>unfortunate number of ballots which are not punched in a clean, complete
>way
>by the voter."  So there are legal votes that should be counted but can't
>be.
>
> Q:  Oh.  Does this have something to do with states' rights?  Don't
>conservatives love that?
>
> A:  Generally yes.  These five justices, in the past few years, have held
>that the federal government has no business telling a sovereign state
>university it can't steal trade secrets just because such stealing is
>prohibited by law. Nor does the federal government have any business
>telling
>a state that it should bar guns in schools.  Nor can the federal government
>use the equal protection clause to force states to take measures to stop
>violence against women.
>
> Q:  Is there an exception in this case?
>
> A:  Yes, the Gore exception.  States have no rights to have their own
>state
>elections when it can result in Gore being elected President.  This
>decision
>is limited to only this situation.
>
> Q:  C'mon.  The Supremes didn't really say that.  You're exaggerating.
>
> A:  Nope.  They held "Our consideration is limited to the present
>circumstances, or the problem of equal protection in election processes
>generally presents many complexities."
>
> Q:  What complexities?
>
> A:  They don't say.
>
> Q:  I'll bet I know the reason.  I heard Jim Baker say this.  The votes
>can't be counted because the Florida Supreme Court "changed the rules of
>the
>election after it was held."  Right?
>
> A.  Dead wrong. The US Supreme Court made clear that the Florida Supreme
>Court did not change the rules of the election.  But the US Supreme
>Court found the failure of the Florida Court to change the rules was wrong.
>
> Q:  Huh?
>
> A:  The Legislature declared that the only legal standard for counting
>vote
>is "clear intent of the voter."  The Florida Court was condemned for not
>adopting a clearer standard.
>
> Q:  I thought the Florida Court was not allowed to change the
>Legislature's
>law after the election.
>
> A:  Right.
>
> Q:  So what's the problem?
>
> A:  They should have.  The US Supreme Court said the Florida Supreme
>Court should have "adopt[ed] adequate statewide standards for determining
>what is a legal vote"
>
> Q:  I thought only the Legislature could "adopt" new law.
>
> A:  Right.
>
> Q:  So if the Court had adopted new standards, I thought it would have
>been overturned.
>
> A:  Right.  You're catching on.
>
> Q:  If the Court had adopted new standards, it would have been overturned
>for changing the rules. And if it didn't, it's overturned for not
>changing the rules.  That means that no matter what the Florida Supreme
>Court
>did, legal votes could never be counted.
>
> A:  Right.  Next question.
>
> Q:  Wait, wait.  I thought the problem was "equal protection," that some
>counties counted votes differently from others.  Isn't that a problem?
>
> A:  It sure is.  Across the nation, we vote in a hodgepodge of systems.
>Some, like the optical-scanners in largely Republican-leaning counties
>record
>99.7% of the votes.  Some, like the punchcard systems in largely
>Democratic-leaning counties record only 97% of the votes.  So approximately
>3% of Democratic votes are thrown in the trash can.
>
> Q:  Aha!  That's a severe equal-protection problem!!!
>
> A:  No it's not.  The Supreme Court wasn't worried about the 3% of
>Democratic ballots thrown in the trashcan in Florida.  That "complexity"
>was
>not a problem.
>
> Q:  Was it the butterfly ballots that violated Florida law and tricked
>more
>than 20,000 Democrats to vote for Buchanan or Gore and Buchanan.
>
> A:  Nope.  The Supreme Court has no problem believing that Buchanan got
>his highest, best support in a precinct consisting of a Jewish old age home
>with Holocaust survivors, who apparently have changed their mind about
>Hitler.
>
> Q:  Yikes.  So what was the serious equal protection problem?
>
> A:  The problem was neither the butterfly ballot nor the 3% of Democrats
>(largely African-American) disenfranchised.  The problem is that somewhat
>less than .005% of the ballots may have been determined under slightly
>different standards because judges sworn to uphold the law and doing their
>best to accomplish the legislative mandate of "clear intent of the voter"
>may
>have a slightly different opinion about the voter's intent.
>
> Q:  Hmmm.  OK, so if those votes are thrown out, you can still count the
>votes where everyone agrees the voter's intent is clear?
>
> A:  Nope.
>
> Q:  Why not?
>
> A:  No time.
>
> Q:  No time to count legal votes where everyone, even Republicans,
>agree the intent is clear?  Why not?
>
> A:  Because December 12 was yesterday.
>
> Q:  Is December 12 a deadline for counting votes?
>
> A:  No.  January 6 is the deadline.  In 1960, Hawaii's votes weren't
>counted
>until January 4.
>
> Q:  So why is December 12 important?
>
> A:  December 12 is a deadline by which Congress can't challenge the
>results.
>
> Q:  What does the Congressional role have to do with the Supreme Court?
>
> A:  Nothing.
>
> Q:  But I thought ---
>
> A:  The Florida Supreme Court had earlier held it would like to complete
>its
>work by December 12 to make things easier for Congress.  The United States
>Supreme Court is trying to help the Florida Supreme Court out by forcing
>the
>Florida court to abide by a deadline that everyone agrees is not binding.
>
> Q:  But I thought the Florida Court was going to just barely have the
>votes
>counted by December 12.
>
> A:  They would have made it, but the five conservative justices stopped
>the
>recount last Saturday.
>
> Q:  Why?
>
> A:  Justice Scalia said some of the counts may not be legal.
>
> Q:  So why not separate the votes into piles, indentations for Gore,
>hanging
>chads for Bush, votes that everyone agrees went to one candidate or the
>other
>so that we know exactly how Florida voted before determining who won? Then,
>if some ballots (say, indentations) have to be thrown out, the American
>people will know right away who won Florida.
>
> A.  Great idea!  The US Supreme Court rejected it.  They held that such
>counts would likely to produce election results showing Gore won and Gore's
>winning would cause "public acceptance" and that would "cast[] a cloud"
>over
>Bush's "legitimacy" that would harm "democratic stability."
>
> Q:  In other words, if America knows the truth that Gore won, they won't
>accept the US Supreme Court overturning Gore's victory?
>
> A:  Yes.
>
> Q:  Is that a legal reason to stop recounts? or a political one?
>
> A:  Let's just say in all of American history and all of American law,
>this
>reason has no basis in law.  But that doesn't stop the five conservatives
>from creating new law out of thin air.
>
> Q:  Aren't these conservative justices against judicial activism?
>
> A:  Yes, when liberal judges are perceived to have done it.
>
> Q:  Well, if the December 12 deadline is not binding, why not count the
>votes?
>
> A:  The US Supreme Court, after admitting the December 12 deadline is not
>binding, set December 12 as a binding deadline at 10 p.m. on December 12.
>
> Q:  Didn't the US Supreme Court condemn the Florida Supreme Court for
>arbitrarily setting a deadline?
>
> A:  Yes.
>
> Q:  But, but --
>
> A:  Not to worry.  The US Supreme Court does not have to follow laws it
>sets
>for other courts.
>
> Q:  So who caused Florida to miss the December 12 deadline?
>
> A:  The Bush lawyers who first went to court to stop the recount, the mob
>in
>Miami that got paid Florida vacations for intimidating officials, and the
>US
>Supreme Court for stopping the recount.
>
> Q:  So who is punished for this behavior?
>
> A:  Gore, of course.
>
> Q:  Tell me this: Florida's laws are unconstitutional, right?
>
> A:  Yes
>
> Q:  And the laws of 50 states that allow votes to be cast or counted
>differently are unconstitutional?
>
> A:  Yes.  And 33 of those states have the "clear intent of the voter"
>standard
>that the US Supreme Court found was illegal in Florida.
>
> Q:  Then why aren't the results of 33 states thrown out?
>
> A:  Um.  Because...um.....the Supreme Court doesn't say...
>
> Q:  But if Florida's certification includes counts expressly declared
>by the US Supreme Court to be unconstitutional, we don't know who really
>won the election there, right?
>
> A:  Right.  Though a careful analysis by the Miami Herald shows Gore won
>Florida by about 20,000 votes (excluding the butterfly ballot errors).
>
> Q:  So, what do we do, have a re-vote?  Throw out the entire state?
>Count all ballots under a single uniform standard?
>
> A:  No.  We just don't count the votes that favor Gore.
>
> Q:  That's completely bizarre!  That sounds like rank political
>favoritism! Did the justices have any financial interest in the case?
>
> A:  Scalia's two sons are both lawyers working for Bush.  Thomas's wife is
>collecting applications for people who want to work in the Bush
>administration.
>
> Q:  Why didn't they recuse themselves?
>
> A:  If either had recused himself, the vote would be 4-4, and the Florida
>Supreme Court decision allowing recounts would have been affirmed.
>
> Q:  I can't believe the justices acted in such a blatantly political way.
>
> A:  Read the opinions for yourself:
> http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/supremecourt/00-949_dec12.fdf
>(December 9 stay stopping the recount), and
> http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/00pdf/00-949.pdf
>(December 12 final opinion)
>
> Q:  So what are the consequences of this?
>
> A:  The guy who got the most votes in the US and in Florida and under our
>Constitution (Al Gore) will lose to America's second choice who won the
>all important 5-4 Supreme Court vote.
>
> Q:  I thought in a democracy, the guy with the most votes wins.
>
> A:  True, in a democracy.  But America is not a democracy.  In America, in
>the year 2000, the guy with the most US Supreme Court votes wins.
>
> Q:  Is there any way to stop the Supreme Court from doing this again?
>
> A:  YES.  No federal judge can be confirmed without a vote in the Senate.
>It takes 60 votes to break a filibuster. If only 41 of the 50 Democratic
>Senators stand up to Bush and his Supremes and say that they will not
>approve
>a single judge appointed by him until a President can be democratically
>elected in 2004, the judicial reign of terror can end... and one day we can
>hope to return to the rule of law.
>
> Q:  What do I do now?
>
> A:  E-mail this to everyone you know, and write or call your senator,
>reminding him that Gore beat Bush by several hundred thousand votes (three
>times Kennedy's margin over Nixon) and that you believe that VOTERS rather
>than JUDGES should determine who wins an election by counting every vote.
>And
>to protect our judiciary from overturning the will of the people, you want
>them to confirm NO NEW JUDGES until 2004 when a president is finally chosen
>by most of the American people.
>
>--  [e-mail]
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 06:28:01 -0800
From: "Abolition2000 Pacific Region" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) Christmas Island Nuclear Bomb Tests site

Aloha from warm Hawaii,

FYI:

Christmas Island Nuclear Bomb Tests

http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/janeresture/christmas_bombs/index.htm


Richard Salvador
Honolulu, Hawaii





_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 07:13:23 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Re: "Oboe 6" subcritical nuclear test on 12-14-00

On 15 Dec 00,, Sally Light wrote:

> I believe we need both a planned event as well as demonstrations on the test
> days.  We have been able to turn out a good number of people for noontime
> protests on test days in the past, even with only 24-48 hours notice from DOE.

- -- Agreed.

> The "Oboe 6" situation caught us short in that it was the only time that a
> "subcritical" nuclear test was done 6 weeks before the unofficially given test
> date.

- -- True, but the last one (or maybe the one before that) also got by
us -- I showed up w/ my recording gear & was the only one besides
the cops (everyone else was on their way back from Vandenberg or
collapsed from overwork there).  Another time the DOE postponed
the test @ the last minute & messed us up.  Lately, I notice, they've
given us less notice & switched dates etc., etc. . . . whether through
incompetence or by intent they're jacking us around.  I'll still go out
there every test that I can but I feel strongly that we need to do
something besides dance to their tune.

Ed Rippy


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:29:23 +0000
From: Sally Light <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Re: "Oboe 6" subcritical nuclear test on 12-14-00

Ed,

Carah Ong recently reposted the Abolition 2000 listserves rules of etiquette, which
ask, out of respect for others, that discussions of a more local or personal nature
be carried out elsewhere.  I agree with this, and ask that you contact me and others
in Northern Calif. directly, rather than post dialogues such as this on the national
listserve.

Thanks.

Sally Light
Executive Director
Nevada Desert Experience

[e-mail] wrote:

> On 15 Dec 00,, Sally Light wrote:
>
> > I believe we need both a planned event as well as demonstrations on the test
> > days.  We have been able to turn out a good number of people for noontime
> > protests on test days in the past, even with only 24-48 hours notice from DOE.
>
> -- Agreed.
>
> > The "Oboe 6" situation caught us short in that it was the only time that a
> > "subcritical" nuclear test was done 6 weeks before the unofficially given test
> > date.
>
> -- True, but the last one (or maybe the one before that) also got by
> us -- I showed up w/ my recording gear & was the only one besides
> the cops (everyone else was on their way back from Vandenberg or
> collapsed from overwork there).  Another time the DOE postponed
> the test @ the last minute & messed us up.  Lately, I notice, they've
> given us less notice & switched dates etc., etc. . . . whether through
> incompetence or by intent they're jacking us around.  I'll still go out
> there every test that I can but I feel strongly that we need to do
> something besides dance to their tune.
>
> Ed Rippy
>
> -
>  To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "[e-mail]"
>  with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
>  For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
>  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.




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 To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "[e-mail]"
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:41:20 +0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: (abolition-usa) Fwd. RE: illegal disposal/dumping of a nuclear reactor/testing cell by Shell

A forwarded post for your consideration...


From: "john dyer" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Subject:
Date: Saturday, December 16, 2000 3:40 AM

My name is John Alfred Dyer.  For the last thirteen years I have been researching
the alleged illegal disposal/dumping of a nuclear reactor/testing cell by Shell,
in 1968.  Briefly my research is that:

1. In 1968, Shell, hired known criminals (with a history of illegally disposing
of nuclear 'waste'), to decommission its (secret) nuclear rector/testing cell.


2. That Shell paid the said 'criminals' a six-figure CASH sun (at today's prices).


3. That Shell's reactor/testing cell decommissioning did not go to plan.

4. That huge amounts of nuclear materials/waste (thousands of tons, yes thousands
of tons) were illegally dumped (onto an urban population), as part, consequence.




In 1993, my research resulted in the commissioning of a TV programme for Carlton
Television-.  A matter of days before the said programmes proposed transmission
Shell produced an extensive 2900 word Narrative, to explain away my research.
 The said Narrative resulted in the TV programme being abandoned.  (Shell 'explained/claimed'
that I had got it wrong, for it was not a nuclear reactor/testing cell that
had been decommissioned, rather, Shell claimed, it was a Cobalt-60 labyrinth-
i.e.  'harmless' nuclear facility/waste)

However, I have established that the Shell's Native was a (known) tissue of
leis from start to finish.  Shell's legal head Richard Max Wiseman, was wheeled-out
in light of my supplied evidence, to concede that the said Narrative was a 'mistake'.


As I state, and supply the evidence for my assertion(s), in my WEB site www.nuclearcrimes.com
the Narrative was no 'mistake'; rather, it was a deliberate fraudulent sham
Narrative to cover up Shell's wholesale nuclear dumping crimes.

You will see that I have invited Shell-following two years of correspondence
with the most senior Shell directors- its Chairman and Legal Head- to sue me,
if my allegations and/or evidence is incorrect/untrue.  Despite specific prior
threats to sue, Shell has refused to issue, or embark on any legal process.
 Shell, aware of the truth will not risk court action, hence no 'writs' despite
Shell's lawyers threats

In response to my WEB site, Shell has called in its scientific staff, and others,
at Thornton Research Centre, Cheshire.  They refused to refute my allegations,
contenting themselves with repeating the lie that I have refused to call in
the 'Health & Safety'.

Shell have used its muscle once to get my site shut down-see nuclearcrimes site-now
after threatening, my 'new' ethical web host, and failing to get my  'him' to
close down my site, Shell is presently endeavouring to get the entire domain
closed.

John Dyer.



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 To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "[e-mail]"
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 22:57:06 -0000
From: "Lindis Percy and Anni Rainbow" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) Protest at NSA Feltwell, UK

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C067B3.83464000
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Ffriends

On Saturday 16 December Lindis Percy (CAAB) was arrested outside NSA =
Feltwell by the Ministry of Defence police (MDP) for 'Obstructing the =
Highway'.  She was witnessing and protesting at the probable use of the =
Near and Deep Space Tracking Facility at NSA Feltwell in the American =
National Missile Defense (NMD) programme. She was holding a 'Stars and =
Stripes' flag with the words 'STOP STAR WARS' written on it at the Main =
Entrance to the base.

Lindis was taken to Thetford Police Station and charged with 'Using =
threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour or disorderly =
behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused =
harassment, alarm or distress which was racially aggrevated in =
accordance with Section 3 (1)(c) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 =
contary to Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 as amended by the =
Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994'

Bail conditions were imposed not to go within 500 yards of the American =
bases at Feltwell, Mildenhall and Lakenheath - Lindis had witnessed at =
all three bases during the day.

Lindis' witness was quiet and peaceful and CAAB will continue to quietly =
and peacefully witness and protest against the American NMD system and =
the lack of accountability of American bases.

Contact: Lindis Percy and Anni Rainbow
CAMPAIGN FOR THE ACCOUNTABILITY OF AMERICAN BASES (CAAB)=20
8 Park Row, Otley, West Yorkshire, LS21 1HQ, England, U.K.
Tel/fax no: [phone]R [phone]
email: [e-mail]
Website: http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyorks/caab/
=20
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can =
change the world: indeed it's the only thing that ever does."     =
Margaret Mead=20



   =20

- ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C067B3.83464000
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Ffriends</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>On Saturday 16 December Lindis =
Percy (CAAB)=20
was arrested outside NSA Feltwell by the Ministry of Defence police =
(MDP) for=20
'Obstructing the Highway'.  She was witnessing and protesting at =
the=20
probable use of the Near and Deep Space Tracking Facility at NSA =
Feltwell in the=20
American National Missile Defense (NMD) programme. She was holding a =
'Stars and=20
Stripes' flag with the words 'STOP STAR WARS' written on it at the Main =
Entrance=20
to the base.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Lindis was taken to Thetford Police Station and =
charged=20
with 'Using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour or =
disorderly=20
behaviour within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused=20
harassment, alarm or distress which was racially aggrevated in =
accordance with=20
Section 3 (1)(c) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 contary to Section 5 =
of the=20
Public Order Act 1986 as amended by the Criminal Justice and Public =
Order Act=20
1994'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Bail conditions were imposed not to go within =
500 yards of=20
the American bases at Feltwell, Mildenhall and Lakenheath - Lindis=20
had witnessed at all three bases during the day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Lindis' witness was quiet and peaceful and CAAB =
will=20
continue to quietly and peacefully witness and protest against the =
American NMD=20
system and the lack of accountability of American bases.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Contact: Lindis Percy and Anni =
Rainbow</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CAMPAIGN FOR THE ACCOUNTABILITY OF =
AMERICAN=20
BASES</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> (CAAB) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>8 Park Row, Otley, West Yorkshire, LS21 =
1HQ,=20
England, U.K.<BR>Tel/fax no: [phone]R +44 (0)1482=20
702033</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>email: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</=
A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Website: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyorks/caab/">http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyo=
rks/caab/</A></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>"Never doubt that a small group =
of=20
thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world: indeed it's the =
only thing=20
that ever does."     Margaret=20
Mead</STRONG> <BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT>=
</DIV>
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face=3DArial>   </FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C067B3.83464000--


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:09:35 EST
From: Charles F Hilfenhaus <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) Re: "Oboe 6" subcritical nuclear test on 12-14-00

Sally,
I am suprised that you of all people would send a message like this.  As
you were the one to question my cerditability by using old communications
with DOE PR flacks AND sending them out to all lists!!! I STRONGLY OBJECT
TO YOUR PROPOSAL TO CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSIONS IN THE NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
LIST ONLY.  If you don't want the imput of those of us near ground zero
thats up to you.
Charlie Hilfenhaus
Alliance of Atomic Veterans
Director, Atomic Workers Division
[e-mail]

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:29:23 +0000 Sally Light <[e-mail]>
writes:
>Ed,
>
>Carah Ong recently reposted the Abolition 2000 listserves rules of
>etiquette, which
>ask, out of respect for others, that discussions of a more local or
>personal nature
>be carried out elsewhere.  I agree with this, and ask that you contact
>me and others
>in Northern Calif. directly, rather than post dialogues such as this
>on the national
>listserve.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Sally Light
>Executive Director
>Nevada Desert Experience
>
>[e-mail] wrote:
>
>> On 15 Dec 00,, Sally Light wrote:
>>
>> > I believe we need both a planned event as well as demonstrations
>on the test
>> > days.  We have been able to turn out a good number of people for
>noontime
>> > protests on test days in the past, even with only 24-48 hours
>notice from DOE.
>>
>> -- Agreed.
>>
>> > The "Oboe 6" situation caught us short in that it was the only
>time that a
>> > "subcritical" nuclear test was done 6 weeks before the
>unofficially given test
>> > date.
>>
>> -- True, but the last one (or maybe the one before that) also got by
>> us -- I showed up w/ my recording gear & was the only one besides
>> the cops (everyone else was on their way back from Vandenberg or
>> collapsed from overwork there).  Another time the DOE postponed
>> the test @ the last minute & messed us up.  Lately, I notice,
>they've
>> given us less notice & switched dates etc., etc. . . . whether
>through
>> incompetence or by intent they're jacking us around.  I'll still go
>out
>> there every test that I can but I feel strongly that we need to do
>> something besides dance to their tune.
>>
>> Ed Rippy
>>
>> -
>>  To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to
>"[e-mail]"
>>  with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
>>  For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages
>send
>>  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.
>
>
>
>
>-
> To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to
>"[e-mail]"
> with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
> For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
> "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:28:36 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Re: "Oboe 6" subcritical nuclear test on 12-14-00

On 16 Dec 00,, Sally Light wrote:

> Carah Ong recently reposted the Abolition 2000 listserves rules of etiquette

- -- My apologies to the list if I have transgressed.

Ed Rippy


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:47:59 +0000
From: Sally Light <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (abolition-usa) Re: "Oboe 6" subcritical nuclear test on 12-14-00

Dear Charlie,

The discussion Ed was pursuing was about how to organize the Bechtel demos. in
San Francisco, something that the groups in Northern Calif. have had an ongoing
dialog on via both local email (not just my e-loop, by the way) and meetings.
This is probably similar to the discussions that the Las Vegas area groups have
when planning their actions & demos, and I haven't seen any of THAT
back-and-forth on the abolition-usa listserve.

By the way, I am very surprised at your thinking that I'm not interested in
your input.  Just the opposite - for example, I would have appreciated hearing
more from you re: the "Oboe 6" dry runs that someone said you detected in the
week before the test was done.  Whatever you have is certainly welcome in this
quarter.

I also believe that your criticism re: "DOE PR flacks" is a bit over the top.
It's a contact that's worked a lot of the time even though I certainly do not
implicitly trust it, DOE being what it is.

I suggest that you & I discuss this further, preferably by phone or email on
the side.

Charlie - I really appreciate all that you.  Don't know how you would think
otherwise.

Peace...

Sally Light
Executive Director
Nevada Desert Experience

Charles F Hilfenhaus wrote:

> Sally,
> I am suprised that you of all people would send a message like this.  As
> you were the one to question my cerditability by using old communications
> with DOE PR flacks AND sending them out to all lists!!! I STRONGLY OBJECT
> TO YOUR PROPOSAL TO CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSIONS IN THE NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
> LIST ONLY.  If you don't want the imput of those of us near ground zero
> thats up to you.
> Charlie Hilfenhaus
> Alliance of Atomic Veterans
> Director, Atomic Workers Division
> [e-mail]
>
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 08:29:23 +0000 Sally Light <[e-mail]>
> writes:
> >Ed,
> >
> >Carah Ong recently reposted the Abolition 2000 listserves rules of
> >etiquette, which
> >ask, out of respect for others, that discussions of a more local or
> >personal nature
> >be carried out elsewhere.  I agree with this, and ask that you contact
> >me and others
> >in Northern Calif. directly, rather than post dialogues such as this
> >on the national
> >listserve.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Sally Light
> >Executive Director
> >Nevada Desert Experience
> >
> >[e-mail] wrote:
> >
> >> On 15 Dec 00,, Sally Light wrote:
> >>
> >> > I believe we need both a planned event as well as demonstrations
> >on the test
> >> > days.  We have been able to turn out a good number of people for
> >noontime
> >> > protests on test days in the past, even with only 24-48 hours
> >notice from DOE.
> >>
> >> -- Agreed.
> >>
> >> > The "Oboe 6" situation caught us short in that it was the only
> >time that a
> >> > "subcritical" nuclear test was done 6 weeks before the
> >unofficially given test
> >> > date.
> >>
> >> -- True, but the last one (or maybe the one before that) also got by
> >> us -- I showed up w/ my recording gear & was the only one besides
> >> the cops (everyone else was on their way back from Vandenberg or
> >> collapsed from overwork there).  Another time the DOE postponed
> >> the test @ the last minute & messed us up.  Lately, I notice,
> >they've
> >> given us less notice & switched dates etc., etc. . . . whether
> >through
> >> incompetence or by intent they're jacking us around.  I'll still go
> >out
> >> there every test that I can but I feel strongly that we need to do
> >> something besides dance to their tune.
> >>
> >> Ed Rippy
> >>
> >> -
> >>  To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to
> >"[e-mail]"
> >>  with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
> >>  For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages
> >send
> >>  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-
> > To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to
> >"[e-mail]"
> > with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
> > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
> > "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
> -
>  To unsubscribe to abolition-usa, send an email to "[e-mail]"
>  with "unsubscribe abolition-usa" in the body of the message.
>  For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
>  "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.




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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 08:40:12 +0000
From: Sally Light <[e-mail]>
Subject: (abolition-usa) [Fwd: Wishing you good luck...]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- --------------8502C676A457D2C1F8F9AA6D
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear friends,

I'm passing this on to you, just in case you missed Alice Slater's
forwarded message from Sriprakash.  If you can, please send messages of
solidarity to him and the others involved in the JOAR hunger strike now
going on.

Peace...

Sally Light
Executive Director
Nevada Desert Experience

- --------------8502C676A457D2C1F8F9AA6D
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Received: from web3603.mail.yahoo.com (web3603.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.203.98])
    by emu.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3-EL_1_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA28228
    for <[e-mail]>; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:24:41 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Received: from [210.212.17.113] by web3603.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:24:41 PST
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 02:24:41 -0800 (PST)
From: shri prakash <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Wishing you good luck...
To: Sally Light <[e-mail]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

dear friend
thanks for your support for the people of jadugoda..
now we  are receiving solidarity from all world....
 as from my first mail you know about the program of
the  JOAR STRUGGLE.
from 16th  now people of jaugoda were in hunger strike
serially .
I will try to send the photograph of the situation in
other mail..


ghanshyam biruli
tilai tand
jadugoda
jharkhand
India ph 0091 657 730009


shriprakash
30 randhir pd. street upper bazar, ranchi
India


you will find some information about the jadugoda here
http://www.jca.apc.org/~hiroko/jadugoda/jadugoda-j.html


shriprakash



- --- Sally Light <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Dear Shriprakash,
>
> Alice Slater passed your message onto the Abolition
> 2000 groups via
> email.  Thank you for alerting us to your December
> activities.
>
> I know that many people and groups worldwide
> completely support your
> efforts in India.  Please tell everyone with your
> group that, although
> we may not be able to come to India to be with you
> this December,
> nevertheless we will keep you all in our thoughts
> and prayers, wishing
> you the best possible outcome.
>
> If you can, please send me updates as things
> develop.
>
> In solidarity for a nuclear-free future.
>
> In peace...
>
> Sally Light
> Executive Director
> Nevada Desert Experience
> USA
>
> p.s.  Nevada Desert Experience is an anti-nuclear
> group that has
> organized people for peaceful demonstrations and
> direct actions at the
> Nevada Test Site for the last 20 years.  We are part
> of Abolition 2000
> Global Network to Abolish Nuclear Weapons, the US
> Campaign to Abolish
> Nuclear Weapons, the Global Network Against Weapons
> & Nuclear Power in
> Space, and so on.
>


__________________________________________________
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- --------------8502C676A457D2C1F8F9AA6D--


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------------------------------

End of abolition-usa-digest V1 #405
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