NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #20/NN_1992_20.iso/spool/comp/protocol/nfs/2299

Text File | 1992-09-11 | 7.7 KB | 149 lines

Newsgroups: comp.protocols.nfs
Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!nucsrl!ddsw1!karl
From: [e-mail] (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: What are the advantages and disadvantages of B+Wnfs vs SunPCNFS?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: From someone who has used both
Keywords: PC-Email, PC-NFS, HP server
Organization: MCSNet System Operations
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:19:38 GMT
Lines: 136

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Curt Finch 903 2F021 [e-mail] 512-838-2806) writes:
>What are the advantages and disadvantages of B+W NFS vs SunPCNFS?
>
>I'm mainly interested in design issues in the latest versions of both.
>I assume differences in design exist?  Not trying to start a flame war.
>--
>--
>[e-mail] (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality
>My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
> FICA doesn't help the poor.  It mostly goes to old people with incomes >$40k.

From someone who has used both (current B&W, Sun PCNFS about a year back):

o)    Copy protection.  B&W-NFS has "we trust you" copy protection.  Sun
    PCNfs has install disks for each copy, with burned-in serial
    numbers, and beacons on a UDP port to detect violations.  For large
    installations this is intolerable (do you like to keep 500 diskettes
    in a file cabinet, and keep absolute track of who has what PC to
    prevent collisions?)  Sun does offer a "master disk" which can make
    up to "N" serial numbers, but the same "gotta track every PC and its
    location" problem exists even there.  Beame & Whiteside also offers
    an extremely competitive "X seats" site license arrangement.  This
    is a huge selling point if you have more than a few PCs (consider
    the maintenance nightmare when you lose a PC's hard disk and don't
    know which serial number of PCNFS was installed on it).

o)    Size.  B&W NFS was smaller last time I checked.  Everything is under
    60K, and nearly all can be loaded high with QEMM or similar.  If you
    only need the TCP transport you can save even more; two modules
    don't have to be loaded in that case (or paid for for that matter).

o)    Compatibility.  PCNFS supports a few cards, B&W explicitly
    supports anything you can get a packet driver for, including XIRCOM
    pocket network adapters, RACAL-INTERLAN cards, etc.  This is important
    if you have cards that PCNFS doesn't support.  There is, however, an
    "unsupported" packet driver "shim" for PCNFS.

o)    Support.  B&W hasn't let me down yet; then again, you rarely need
    to call them.  Sun is, well, Sun -- this has both good and bad
    points.

o)    Windows support.  B&W supports mounting and dismounting both drives
    and printers from Windows.  Their new version will support lots of
    neat things in Windows (but I'll let Carl speak to this ;-)  A year
    ago Sun didn't support Windows well at all; I understand this has
    changed.

o)    Socket interface.  Talk to Carl Beame on this one.  Sun sells a
    library which is enormous when linked and can be a real problem.
    I have no idea if Carl would have a problem with my discussing the
    interface here; if he says its ok I will share my experiences with
    it as a developer.  As a note it took me one day to write a real
    nice login wrapper for B&W NFS which checks for mail, handles
    last-login dates and in general looks a lot like a "real" PC LAN
    rather than an NFS applique to a PC.

o)    User interface.  Both are behind the times; Sun gives you a nice menu
    system but it can get bothersome after a while.  Beame gives you a
    command line, but see the preceeding note -- you can easily "wrap"
    his stuff in a really nice user interface with a little effort.
    Carl Beame would win >lots< of points if he was to do this and ship
    it as part of the package.

o)    Beame's API.  B&W can emulate both FTPs and Sun's socket interface,
    allowing you to run a number of third-party programs which "expect"
    the other guy's transport (!)  This can be real neat.  It DOES work
    as advertised; I've used it to run the PC Informix SQL stuff which
    wants to see FTP as a transport.  Informix's code was none the wiser
    for the "spoof".

o)    Performance.  Beame wins hands-down.  The primary reason appears to
    be tighter code.  Expect ~200KB/sec or better reads and writes (if
    your server can keep up!)  The PC NIC makes a >huge< difference
    here; don't skimp!  RACAL makes a smoker of a card which does
    bus-mastering and is reasonably affordable -- that's what I use
    at work and it is really nice when tied to our big Auspex :-)  I
    suspect part of the reason is that it would appear that Beame is big
    on assembly code and getting the last 5% out of the system......
    unexpected in this day and age, but darn nice!

o)    DNS compatibility.  Last time I checked Sun couldn't handle this,
    eschewing it in favor of NIS.  You don't run NIS?  I hope you like
    HOSTS files!  This may have changed.  Beame's stuff can do both, or
    if you're particularly backward, HOSTS files too.  WARNING:  Some
    third-party applications, particularly X windows servers for the
    Beame transport, are written by idiots who haven't figured out how
    to do DNS lookups from his transport yet.  It's NOT difficult -- but
    DO insist on seeing this work before buying third-party applications!

o)    Clients.  Beame provides:  FTP, Bw220 ("telnet": real nice and
    reasonably complete VT220 emulation), troute (traceroute!), ping,
    nslookup, whois, talk, tftp, bwtime (time set), df, ypcat, ypmatch,
    quota, rpcinfo, chmod, chgrp, bwlpq (LPQ), bwlpr (LPR),
    bwlpd (LPD (!)), d2u and u2d (LF conversion programs) and probably
    a few I forgot.

    No idea what Sun ships these days.

o)    Extras.  You can obtain an INT14 "shim" which plays "AT command set
    modem" and talks to anything which will do INT14 communications.
    This is an interesting piece -- consider typing "ATDT host.dom.ain"
    and having it come back "CONNECT" followed by a login prompt!  I
    don't think that Sun offers this kind of thing at all.  It plays this
    game by being a telnet client -- supports both 7 and 8 bit
    transmissions (8 bit is tricky to set up, but can be done).  I used
    this to talk to an X.25 gateway with host software that expected
    either an INT14 modem pool or a real modem -- worked real well.

o)    Novell co-existance.  B&W will co-exist with Novell Netware on the
    same wire AND let you use both in one session (!)   This allows you
    do things like copy files from Netware to NFS servers from a PC that
    is logged into both using >ONE< NIC.  This only works with a packet
    driver.  It can be a lifesaver in a mixed environment (print to
    Novell printers, serve files from both, etc).  It can also be a
    royal pain in the tail if not managed carefully :-)  No idea if Sun
    can do this.

o)    Multiple groups.  B&W supports multiple groups if your OS does.
    Sun's PCNFS didn't used to, but I understand that has now changed.

o)    Printers.  Both support a reasonable set of mapping options for
    printers and do a reasonable job of handling them.  Neither is as
    nice as Novell in this fashion (particularly with cantankerous
    non-network aware applications which take over the keyboard
    precluding a "hot key" job end definition)

I admit I'm biased -- but I haven't seen anything which even comes close to
the B&W package yet.  And yes, I am quite interested in talking to (or
looking at) those who claim to be "better".   The above list is a good
"target" to shoot at, but be aware that Carl Beame likes to move the target
around a lot! :-)

--
Karl Denninger ([e-mail], <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
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