NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #18/NN_1992_18.iso/spool/comp/sys/ibm/pc/hardware/21945

Text File | 1992-08-15 | 28.4 KB | 632 lines

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!stronc
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Keith Strong)
Subject: SUMMARY:  To Gateway, or not to Gateway?  [Long]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: Gateway 2000 buying computer summary
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: aix.rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 04:27:41 GMT
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[This is posted for a friend who does not have net access.  Feel free to
save/reproduce this article for other use on the net, or for personal use
just leave credit to the author.  Followup to [e-mail].   -CKS]


Well, I've been doing a lot of research about Gateway 2000, and I have to
give them mixed reviews.  People love them, but there are also problems.  If/
when a problem occurs, people have found that Gateway has been quick to
respond.  I know of three gateway owners myself, and two of them have had
their systems replaced.  (One was DOA, the other had a motherboard go after
about a month...Both promptly replaced by Gateway).

Gateway 2000 will not suit my uses, as I'm going to be using my machines
for a small business, and I need 'em up and running constantly (or as close
to that as possible.)  I don't feel secure that I'm going to get that
from Gateway.  I'm going to be getting my fileserver from Dell, and my
other machines from a local dealer.

However, if you're a home-based user, [and willing to put up with long
waits on hold, and a possible problem now and then (which is promptly
fixed)] and are looking for a powerful machine at the right price, then I
strongly suggest considering Gateway 2000.

I do reccomend that you talk with others besides Gateway 2000, perhaps
Dell, Northgate, Zeos, or CompuAdd.  And I recommend that you do your own
research and know what you want, AND WHAT YOU'RE WILLING TO PAY/SAVE FOR
DIFFERENT LEVELS OF SERVICE and quality.  Be informed, and listen to the
people on the net.  Many of them have already delt with the companies that
you might be looking into--use the net as a resource.  Good luck, and

enjoy your hunting...

pete
[e-mail]

ps-- all the original text of the messages I received have been reproduced
here... I've just shortened the headers a little...



From [e-mail] Thu Aug  6 17:15:04 1992
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 14:14:39 -0700
In article <[e-mail]> you write:
>
>I've been looking at a number of the larger mail order computer places
>and I'm considering Gateway 2000.  I know that there's been a lot of talk
>about Gateway, andsome people have had problems.
>
>To me, tech support is super important.  I'm not going to call tech support
>before I RTFM, and I'm not going to call before trying to fix the problem
>my self.  But, when I need tech support it is because I'm stumped, and it's
>going to be a siginificant problem.
>
>Have people had problems getting through to tech support?

Usually you'll be put on hold for 15 minutes *after* which you're told
by a receptionist that all techs are busy and that they'll call you
back within 24 hours. Some on the net claim a call-back rate of only
50% but I've been called back every time. I don't like it but from now
on will take the advice of others on the net and write up detailed
descriptions of the problem and *fax* it or *email* it to them.
(E-mail to [e-mail] is answered by a reputably knowledgable
tech.)

>Have they been well trained and do they know their systems?

>From my experience I'd have to say they need improvement. They're not
real bad but my success has been one out of three for getting someone
who really knew what my problem was and what was causing it. I have
heard that using the fax or email approach gets around this because
it gets passed to the person most likely to have a clue. (This makes
sense, too, after all you wouldn't pass the fax to the least trained
person on the line, now would you?)

>Did you have any major problems with your system, and how were they handled?

Other than the infamous Telepath fax/modem fiasco (which generated the
three phone calls mentioned above), I had no system problems.

>Would you buy one of their systems again?

Yes. But not because of dazzling tech support, because they use good
components at a price other mail order places can't beat. (Some places
match them sometimes but the quality of the products is suspect.) In
fact, I'm helping a friend put together a system and I started from
scratch in my search rather than going straight for a Gateway (because
his needs are very different) and whadya know? Gateway's configuration
stands out against the others. (I think the free app did it for my
friend though because he wanted Word for Windows.)

Put it this way, as you've probably found in your search, you see a
really good Gateway 2000 configuration and then you go look at other
similar configurations offered by the competition. The price might be
about the same, but you see the Gateway gives you more or faster RAM.
You see Gateway gives you a free app, the competition only gives you
DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1. (Zeos--with a reputation for excellent
support doesn't even give you either.) Or you see the Gateway average
seek time on the hard drive is faster. Or you see that you can get an
ATI Graphics Ultra. Somehow their configuration offers more for the
same money.

The way I look at it good components can save you from *needing* their
tech support. Plus the only other companies whose tech support I've
used were no better or worse despite getting through easier.

>any and all help would be greatly appreciated.  Email me and I'll summarize
>or just post to the net.

A week or so ago someone else asked the opinion of Gateway owners. In
a private e-mail he said 8 responses were positive (would buy again),
one was neutral (no preference), and one negative (would not buy from
Gateway again).  Maybe he'll e-mail you his results. I don't remember
who it was though, sorry.

-- Tad Perry   Internet:    [e-mail]
================================

[Ed note:  I've also included some messages I've gleaned off the net
that have some relevance to Gateway 2000.  Hope they're informative -PL]

From: [e-mail] (Shawn King)
 I recently saw on this newsgroup a posting which said that gateway can be
 reached at [e-mail].
=================================
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Reznick)

Has anyone had any experience with Gateway 2000 systems?  I have heard
hat they get really, really hot.  I am specifically talking about their
486DX2-50mhz machines.  Is it possible that this heat could cause a
crash, or is it under control.

thanks
dan reznick
[e-mail]
==================================

From: [e-mail] (Don Sterner)

[e-mail] (Roger M. Preston) writes:
> I've been perusing this newsgroup for a few days, so I hope that my question
> is not out of line (if it is, please ignore it).  I am considering buying
> a 486 from Gateway and would like to solicit opinions on Gateway's trustworth
> ness and reliablity.  Are they a good company to deal with?  Do they deliver

I've dealt with Gateway several times over the past year or so. Yes, I've
had some difficulty with the hardware. On the other hand, keep in mind
that Gateway uses name-brand suppliers, and that they were very responsive
to me every time I had difficulty. At one point, we couldn't isolate a
problem to a specific component, so they replaced an entire 486/33 tower
system. My experiences have been very favorable.

PC magazine did an article recently in which they asked customers about
their opinions regarding PC suppliers. Gateway was one of the very best.
About the only complaint was the delays in reaching customer support.
Gateway contends that they've added considerably to the support staff and
that they're training new personnel as fast as possible. I've avoided the
telephone delays (long & repeated holds, etc) by documenting my problems
as completely as possible and faxing the letter to them. Invariably, I
soon get a call from tech support in which my problem is corrected or
I'm told that replacement parts are on their way, if that is the appropriate
action. A phone call gets routed to the next service rep in line - the
fax gets routed to one of the best persons to handle the problem.

Yes the company is trustworthy and reliable (good boy scouts). They ARE
sometimes behind in their deliveries, and occasionally the sales people
are not in touch with the situation regarding parts shortages, etc.
Gateway is not perfect. The product reliability is as good as any I've
seen (over 23 years in DP, started in PCs in 1977). There is no extra
charge for credit card use.

Regarding the Telepath, Gateway has publicly admitted that they shipped
the modem without adequate testing. They recalled the units which had
been distributed. They offered those who had bought defective Telepath
units either a replacement modem from a competitor or a corrected
Telepath after the fixes were determined and implemented. They offered
each affected customer $50 credit on software packages available from
Gateway. Once they had committed the error, what more could they have
done?

Yep, I'll buy again from Gateway if I need another machine.
===============================
From: [e-mail] (Michael Rosen)
[About the Telepath Modems --PL]
>Gateway. Once they had committed the error, what more could they have
>done?

They have also given Telepath purchasers (previous orders that were on
backorder) an 18 month warranty I believe (not sure if I quoted the
exact number the salesman told me).

Mike
--
Michael Rosen                        "Beer - It does
Tau Epsilon Phi - George Washington University         a body good."
[e-mail]
[e-mail] or @lambada.oit.unc.edu
================================

From: [e-mail] (James Henrickson)
In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger M. Preston) writes:
>
>I've been perusing this newsgroup for a few days, so I hope that my question
>is not out of line (if it is, please ignore it).  I am considering buying
>a 486 from Gateway and would like to solicit opinions on Gateway's trustworthi-
>ness and reliablity.  Are they a good company to deal with?  Do they deliver
>what they promise?   Are their products reliable?  Do they charge extra for
>credit card customers?  How long do they take to deliver a system?
....


I've been satisfied with the 386DX-33 I bought from Gateway over a year ago,
but a friend of mine had a problem with bad motherboards in his 486DX-25.
The problem must have been corrected by now, though, as he isn't complaining
anymore.  :-)  The school that I attend has bought several 386SX's from them
also.  (Just stating a fact, I don't speak for the school as I am a "lowly"
student.)

Can someone tell me how this Telepath fiasco is doing at the moment?  I'm
thinking of ordering one but I don't want to wait a long time.


--
Jim H.
*
* James L. Henrickson                                 [e-mail]
* "Yet another Jim in the Linux world."  :-)
===================================
From: [e-mail]

I have a Gateway2000.
The keyboard is the soft touch type, not the click keyboard.  Very good
keyboard if you like soft touch-- I do.
The computer itself does not feel "like a clone".
Everything about this computer, from the 15" monitor, to the ATI Ultra, to
the Micronics motherboard, to the Western Digital Hard drive,
screams out QUALITY!
I have not had my Gateway for very long yet, so I cannot comment too much
on it's reliability.  But the computer does feel rock solid.

I have nothing against Dell or Zeos.  I'd love to have either one, but they
are very expensive.  If I were going to spend that much money for a name
brand, I would get a Northgate (or Dell).
The Gateway is on the same level as these top brand names, but does not cost
nearly as much.

Just thought I'd add my $.02
P. Volpe
=====================================

From: [e-mail] (Opus)

>actually, I heard that zeos's keyboards were pretty good.. oh well..

I also hope you have experience to back up your statements about Dell's
or Gateway's "problem-ridden" machines.. Nobody I know (including me) has
had any trouble with dell's computers.. these include 386sx,386dx, and
486dx.. I don't know anyone with a gateway, but they seemed to get good
reviews with people responding to the pc magazine survey..

Conroy Lee
[Ed Note-- I've NEVER heard anyone complain about Dell's machines or that
they weren't given proper service/tech support --PL]
========================================

From [e-mail] Fri Aug  7 01:36:48 1992

Yes, I would buy another system from them, but I hope I won't
need to for a long time :-) You may post what I said, edited
or in full, included with other's comments or by itself as you
see fit.
=========================================

From [e-mail] Fri Aug  7 09:02:44 1992

:
: I've been looking at a number of the larger mail order computer places
: and I'm considering Gateway 2000.  I know that there's been a lot of talk
: about Gateway, andsome people have had problems.
.....
:
: any and all help would be greatly appreciated.  Email me and I'll summarize
: or just post to the net.
:
: cks

I've heard a lot of praise and grief about Gateway on the net.  I
bought my system from them two years ago and have been on the phone
regarding several things.  I, like you, know a fair amount about
computers, so I never called them until I had a significant problem.
The only problem I have had with technical support is the length of
time I have had to spend listing to music on hold (though it has
never been longer than 20 minutes).  All the tech reps I have talked
to have been well trained.  For most of the problems we were able to
resolve them over the phone.  For the couple of hardware problems I
have had, they were able to identify the source reasonably quickly.
Only one problem (which manifested itself in the display, but was
really a motherboard fault) took longer than a week to repair.  That
one required their on-site service rep to come out which added a few
extra days.  This guy did not appear very competent and installed
the motherboard wrong.  Gateway immediately sent out another one and
I installed it myself.  I would not call their tech support
excellent, but it has been effective for me.

All in all I am one of the many Gateway satisfied customers that
PC-Mag reported on recently.  I will buy my next system from them.
--

John A. Sauter                         Industrial Technology Institute
e-mail: [e-mail]                   PO Box 1485
313-769-4171                           Ann Arbor, MI 48106
=========================================
[Ed Note:  I asked [e-mail] to send me the info he had collected from
his research on Gateway... it's unedited.  --PL]

From [e-mail] Fri Aug  7 09:06:27 1992


Here are most of the responses I received.  The names have been stripped to
protect the innocent.  I ended up ordering a Gateway 50-486DX2.  It is
true what they say, however:  it can be difficult to get through to Gateway on
the phone.

-rmp


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have been a supporter of Gateway for many years.
My relationship with Gateway includes:
12MHz 286
16MHz 286
25MHz 386
25MHz 486
33MHz 486
50MHz 486 (doubler)

Thru this time, the only problems I have had were with the 33MHz 486.
There was a problem with the motherboard and when I added 8 megs of ram
the computer would not recognize it.  They sent me a replacement the next
day.

The older computers are 4 years old and still running so there is no
reliablity problem as far as I am conserned.
There is NO surcharge for the use of credit card.  (VISA wouldn't pay
surcharges anyway if you tell them about it.  Cash discounts are different
;( )
Delivery time is starting to become a problem.  I use to get systems from
them is 10 days but it is more common for them to take 2-3 weeks now.
You can call them and find out the ship time.  They seem to know this
since it is a function of how busy they are.  I think you can pay extra
to rush a system.

I am one of the people waiting for a Telepath.  Gateway has tried to
compensate us for the wait.  They extended the warranty to 18 months and
gave a $50 credit to software for the people who have been waiting so long.

In my opinion, Gateway is a very good company which delivers a good product
for a good price.  But if you think you will need a lot of support their
lines are long and so is the wait.  On the upside, it is their dime.
As a side note, Gateway can be reached at [e-mail].  This is their
new email address on america online.  This might be the way to go for
support questions.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have purchased (486/33) from Gateway.  There was a problem, not
Gateway's fault.  They were very supportive in getting it resolved.

BBN has a number of Gateway machines.  Of the ones I'm familiar with,
the net has been very favorable.

My impression (only that!):  Gateway seems to ship without a final
test or burn-in.  That money saving is passed on to the consumer.  The
downside is possible early failure, which they are very supportive in
correcting.

I would purchase from Gateway again.  Incidentally, their Anykey keyboard
is very good.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've heard nothing but good things about their product. The only
disparaging(sp?) remarks have been from a competitor. I called SWAN
Technologies for a quote on a similar machine. The asked me if I had been
looking around, I said I had and told them Gateway was one of the products I
had looked at. Their immediate response to me was to attack their (Gateway)
support lines. They said they were understaffed and consequently you could not
get through for up to and sometimes over an hour. They gave me the number and
told me to try. I did and gave up after 45 minutes. Now this could be a very
clever maarketing scheme set up to overload the phone lines, or it could be the
truth, you can decide. As a result I ended up buying from a local clone house
that I can really reach out and touch.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am a Gateway owner.  I bought a Gateway 386-25 system in August if '91.
So, I have had my Gateway for a year now.  I will describe EXACTLT what you
should expect:

1.  A great, reliable system, at a GREAT price.
2.  The warranty and such are great.  I had a weak BIOS chip start acting
up about 3 weeks after I received my system.  I called, they sent a new
motherboard, I put it in, mailed the old one back. NO CHARGES.
3.  You will wait on the phone for longer than you want to.  Gateway's
phone support is just not up to quota with the amount of customers they
have.
4.  I have had no other problems, that weren't self induced :-), with my
machine.
5.  The shipping is fast.  You can get a system at your door in about a
week.  My friend just ordered his and it was at his house a day earlier
than they told him.
6.  Gateway will be around after the others have died. They sell more PC's
than IBM, Dell, Northgate, etc
7.  I am a happy customer.
8.  Don't let the Telepath flop fool you.  They had a minor glitch and
wanted to have a complete quality product so they stopped shipping until
they could fix it.

Any other questions, just ask.
Oh yeah, also they sent me 2 copies of Windows 3.1 when I ordered it.
They had UPS come pick it up at my house free of charge after they told me
the return # to put on the box.  Can't beat that.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We purchased a 386/25 and have been extremely happy with it.  No problems
whatsoever.  Our only regret is that those prices keep going down, down, down.
In the year and a half since we bought it, we could get the same machine with
40M more hard disk, and pay about $500 less. C'est la vie!




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have a GW 486/33.  I've had a bad motherboard, 2 monitors and
a bad drive.  They were fairly quick to replace them, but I did
have to pay postage back to GW for the bad parts.  Cost me about
$90 I'd guess.
They've also sent me parts I didn't order. (This is common. I've
saved quite a few net articles)  They've tried to charge me for
these items.   Actually they say I owe them for a 15" monitor and
a graphics ultra card right now.  What's next?
If you do buy a GW, make sure to save everything they send you.
Packing slips, receipts may be the difference between paying for
an item they send you and not.  Also, record the conversations if
you can.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the [sic] are a top-notch outfit.  those who complain are the sort that will
complain about anything.  check out the recent survey in pc mag.. they
were top rated, beat ibm, compaq, etc.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rmp,
  Good things about Gateway 2000's (the product)
    1. Quality components at a good price
  Bad things about Gateway 2000 (the company)
    1. Because of being too big or bureaucratic or just not
       wanting to lay out the money for top-notch employees
       it's hard to get ahold of someone who knows what's
       really going on over there. Once you do though you're
       safe. That's why I'll be using their internet address
       from now on.

As for the Telepath fiasco, or some other unknown problem that might
come up, I have never gotten the feeling that I was being cheated,
only that they were disorganized or sloppy. They're just as likely to
send you a free component you didn't order as they are to send you one
you did order that doesn't work. I have *never* heard of them not
correcting a problem after they're notified of it. You just have to
weigh the risk of going back and forth with UPS or FedEX (they'll pay)
against getting those quality components at a good price. In fact,
other than the Telepath itself I did not have to go through this; I
got everything I ordered. From what I've heard the revised Telepath
will also have been worth it.

Another consideration is: how much patience do you have? It might all
go smoothly from the start, but if it doesn't are you going to be able
to hack it? They won't screw you, but there may be a few hassles
thrown in you didn't anticipate. Hope this helps.
=====================================

From: "MICHELLE HURT" <[e-mail]>

HI THERE-
Just responding to your Gateway post on the news net.  Anyways, we have a
486-33 Gateway, my father and father-in-law have 386dx's from Gateway.  We've
always had good service and tech support from them.  They've always called
back if we left a message, and were always very helpfull.  My husband and I
don't call them often - being fairly good at figuring out the problems and
solutions, but my Father-in-law is not exactly "computer literate" and has
called the tech support for several questions.  He has been thinking of
getting a second SCSI drive, and called them several times with different
questions.  When he orders a new computer - it will be Gateway.  My father
ran a consulting business and needed a reliable system - and one where he
could get help fast if something went wrong.  His harddisk/floppy disk
controller died about 1 week before the warrenty expired, and Gateway had
no hassles on replacing them free and shipped it next day air free of charge.
Sometimes their service fell behind the curve so to speak - usually after they
got rave reviews in a magizine (like when they sweeped the computer shopper
awards).  However, they upped the support as fast as they were able - and
apoligized for the long responce times.  They aren't perfect - but they are
honest and will try to do their best.

Michelle
=========================================

From: [e-mail] (Chaim R. Dworkin)

Their tech support is good.  I have 6 gateways in my office and have been
on the line with tech support a number of times and they are very anxious
to please.  However, they are people hired from the surrounding neighborhood
without regard to prior computer knowledge and many times gateway will
add new hardware to it's system without training the support people.
So in some cases you'll find the support people stumped and have to work
out the problem with you.  However, they will not hang up on you until the
problem is solved.  I have kept them online while I got a screwdriver
and opened up my computer and worked on it and they stay on the phone.
It's an 800 number.

One more thing..... DON'T BUY THEIR TELEPATH MODEM.

--
Chaim R. Dworkin
[e-mail]
=====================================

From: John Sauter <[e-mail]>

> John,
> thanks for the reponse about gateway.  It seems that you're echoing the
> same comments as I'd heard rumors about.  Their policies and service seem
> to be fine for personal use, but not for a small business.  Thanks for
> the feedback.  thanks a lot

In fact, our company did have problems with Gateway.  They bought
one and tried to hook it up to the network here.  There was some
problem with conflicting interrupts that could not be resolved
(problem with the motherboard design).  I think they also had a
blown power supply.  The machine sat broken for over a month (due
mostly to the workload of our own staff and not having time to hound
Gateway's technical support).  In any case, the lesson learned was
that with over 150 PCs to maintain, we couldn't afford to suffer the
delays through their (or any mail order) tech support.  We went with
a local firm which can provide much better on-site support and
service.  But for individual use, I think Gateway's tech support is
sufficient.

Feel free to use my comments in your summary.
--

John A. Sauter                         Industrial Technology Institute
e-mail: [e-mail]                   PO Box 1485
313-769-4171                           Ann Arbor, MI 48106
=====================================

From: [e-mail]

If you are serious about service, avoid Gateway. Our computer
center suggests NOT getting it unless you like to fix pcs, and deal
with lots of problems.  They have a site license with Compuadd, so I
bought one (486sx). BUT, C'Add's onsite service is a lie: they won't come, and
won't even send anything express (overnight) mail: took 5 days to get
a replacement monitor. Also, their "package" to me was incomplete: no
documentation on the video board; or system util disks; or any video
disks. The system check showed 3 rectangles: red, yellow, brown.
Asked "is this correct?"  How the ^%$#@! should I know?

Dell is much better (I have a 286). They have 3 systems now: small
case (limited expandibility) "P" series, full sized, guaranteed
expandability & compatibility "D" series and "not so good service,
for corporations" "Dimension" series. I plan to get a 486sx in the
D series: and when I asked about what they would do if the monitor
were bad, they said" we'd be there the next day."

I know lots of Gateway owners. They like the systems, but admit there
may be problems from time to time.  Also, I've heard good things
about Swan, but they're more expensive.

Well, good luck!

Bob Strauss
=========================================

From [e-mail] Mon Aug 10 10:07:24 1992

>
>thanks for your info about Gateway.  What were you calling their tech support
>for?  Were there broken/dead components or were you adding hardware to your
>system (like a tape drive), etc.

Lots of problems.  A floppy drive arrived that didn't work, they
sent me an ATI Ultra graphics card the day ATI released them but
there were no drivers, one model of their Crystal Scan monitor is a
dud and we had to send back 7 monitors for replacements (they're
no longer shipping that model), the Telepath modem doesn't work
properly and never has, they shipped a FH/HD/IO card with not docs
for the switches, and some other minor problems.  The later in the
day you call the longer it takes for them to answer the phone.
But they stay on the phone until the problem is solved.

--
Chaim R. Dworkin, North American Coordinator, israel.nysernet.org
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
====================================

I hope that this helps any and all of you out there who are considering
Gateway 2000.  They do have good systems, and a whole hell of a lot
of bang for your buck, but... you draw your own conclusions

--pete
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
pete lurie              These opinions are mine, all mine.  You may share
[e-mail]     'em if you choose, but do so at your own risk!