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- Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc
- Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!iat.holonet.net!psinntp!psinntp!panix!jk
- From: jk@panix.com (Jim Kalb)
- Subject: Re: Abortion (was Vegetarianism)
- Message-ID: <C1In86.3I7@panix.com>
- Organization: Institute for the Human Sciences
- References: <1993Jan26.165502.3349@cnsvax.uwec.edu>
- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:07:18 GMT
- Lines: 59
-
- nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) writes:
-
- [I had written:]
-
- >>As I understand it, the objection such people have is not an objection
- >>to destroying potential life. Rather, the idea is that once the ovum is
- >>fertilized a particular human life has come into being and it is wrong
- >>to destroy that particular actual life, at least without a very good
- >>justification.
-
- >You deleted the stuff about how I couldn't see any practical difference
- >between removing the ovum before and after fertilization. I still
- >don't.
-
- I thought you were comparing removal before and after implantation
- (hence your IUD discussion).
-
- >The sperm and ovum were just as much alive before fertilization. The
- >only difference is that the ovum now has some new chromosomes. I don't
- >see anything magically different about that.
-
- The difference is that neither the sperm nor the unfertilized ovum can
- be understood as the bearer of a particular actual human life, while
- the fertilized ovum can.
-
- It's possible for me to identify myself with what I was when I was a
- 2-year-old, when I was a newborn, when I was a 9 or 6 month foetus, and
- so on all the way back to conception, because most of my fundamental
- characteristics and propensities were fixed then and my subsequent
- development can be understood as a process of unfolding and further
- determining what was already there.
-
- It's much more difficult for me to identify myself with the
- unfertilized egg that after fertilization became me because the
- unfertilized egg could have developed normally into a man or a woman, a
- Eurasian, white or mulatto, a brilliant mathematician or a congenital
- idiot, and so on. In addition, it seems that the unfertilized egg was
- no more me than the sperm that eventually fertilized it, and until
- conception there was no particular reason to tie the two together.
-
- >>If someone regarded the taking of a particular human life as the feature
- >>that made abortion bad, but identified human life with human sentience,
- >>then by "soul" he might simply mean sentient human life, say that
- >>abortion becomes bad when the child is "ensouled", and find natural
- >>science relevant to determining when that is.
- >
- >I have no objections if you want to redefine "soul" that way, but the
- >standard definition is "the immortal part of man, separate from the
- >physical body", which implies that is is strictly supernatural.
-
- In your original post it seemed as though you were trying to describe
- the possible arguments against abortion and why you thought they didn't
- work. My intention was simply to restate the argument in a way that
- didn't require anything supernatural (which seemed to be your objection
- to to arguments tying the impermissibility of abortion to sentience).
- --
- Jim Kalb (jk@panix.com)
- "Alles Erworbne bedroht die Maschine, solange
- sie sich erdreistet, im Geist, statt im Gehorchen, zu sein." (Rilke)
-