NetNews Usenet Archive 1993 #3/NN_1993_3.iso/spool/bit/listserv/indiad/22

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India Interest Group Digest Wed, 27 Jan 93       Volume 2: Issue  86

Today's Topics:

      Article titled "Traitors!"
      AT&T.....
      Contact Numbers of SBI and BOI in NY and Chicago
      Horoscope
      Indian gets 75 years for cooking BARBeQUE in Texas
      Just 2 lines
      KamalX Gets Hemorrhoids...Part 2
      Of Fresh Blood Spilling
      On secularism & future fo India .... Part 4/4
      Parikh's "i told you so!" note
      Query about "Convertible Rupee"
      Racism
      Recipes
      Regarding computer net in India
      Reply to Naresh Chand's article on AT&T
      Russian News Digest
      Sambar - A Postscript
      Some Personal Reflections
      Telephone rates to India
      We can't let India be destroyed...
      Who is the most racist?

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Date: 26 Jan 1993 09:29:35 -0300 (BST)
From: Rohit Madhukar Ambekar <[e-mail]>
Subject: Article titled "Traitors!"

I have gotten hold of a newsletter which is being circulated around
the country, through Islamic societies, at Educational establishments
and through religious places of worship.  I was extremely disturbed
after reading this, see what you think:

[Extract from "Khilafah Magazine", Issue 4, August 1991, Printed in
London]:

"  "The hour of resurrection will not occur until Muslims fight Jews
and the Muslims kill them, until the Jews hide behind the rocks and
trees and the rocks and trees say: O Muslim! O Abdullah! A Jew is
here behind me, so come and kill him, except the Box-Thorn, which is
the tree of the Jews." - Saying of Prophet Mohammed (saw) in Sahih
Muslim from Abu Hurairah.  "

This newsletter is a monthly publication, and in more recent issues,
they have talked about Kashmir, and how it is in the cause of Islam
that Kashmir must be made an independent state.  People might say
that this invoking of Muslim emotions is simply political to gain the
support of the world masses, but one has to examine the mentality of
the terrorists there.  Why is it that mainly Hindus have been
salughtered and driven out of Kashmir (even Muslims have been killed
by the Muslims, but that is because they were nationalistic to India),
by the terrorists ?  Because they know that if there is a majority of
Muslims in Kashmir and they ask for a plebecite, they have the
support of them (because it has been made that way).  The question of
a plebecite is already in play, and it won't take long for the
Islamic states of the world to put pressure on India about this
issue, all it takes are a few more newsletters and a bit more pushing
from the west.

Think about it.

ROHIT

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:36:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ramsundar L <[e-mail]>
Subject: AT&T.....

Hai netters,

There were some accolades in this network regarding the services provided
by the AT&T as far as the telephone services are concerned.I fully agree
with the guy who had praised AT&T in its hour of "crisis in this network".
I would like to mention one technical problem with the  other telephone
companies like Sprint and MCI.These two companies lease out the lines from
AT&T. Inspite of that the quality of the line is not good. AT&T provides a
sound quality.

American Express is on a deal with MCI which provides for 30 minutes of free
long-distance calling(within US) for anybody who owns an AMEX card.This is
not properly managed. Infact, I've not got credit so far for any of the 30
minutes(since october'92).This problem is also because of the negligence on
the part of AMEX officials.But MCI is doing nothing to improve its credit
worthiness in this regard.

I got a SPRINT FONCARD which entitles me to a free 100 minute calling spread
over 3 or 4 billing periods. I received my first billing statement and there
was no mention of credits.

AT&T provides a supreme service.Credits are automatically given if the line
wasn't good. For them Indian Student Customers are very important and that's
why in all their advertisements Indian clippings are also shown. My friend
who is working in AT&T's Labs in Naperville(Chicago Suburb) supports my point.

Nothing else,

L Ramsundar

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:33 -0500 (EST)
From: HEMAL <[e-mail]>
Subject: Contact Numbers of SBI and BOI in NY and Chicago

hi friends !

few days bak I sent a mail and request all of us to go through India Today
of 31st Dec. to get good info. regarding  Ayodhya incidents.

well, in the same issue i found no. of adds. related to NRI accounts and for
my interest I wrote down some contact #'s of SBI and BOI at NY and chicago.
I called them up and yesterday I received detailed Info. brochure on NRE and
FCNR accounts and other stuff. for your kind info I'm posting thoes # on the
n/w :

SBI Chicago : 1 800 621 1299   or    312 621 1200
SBI NY      : 1 800 227 4309   or    212 735 9631

Bank of India NY : 1 800 232 2828  or 212 753 1600.

several other banks also offer NRI a/c services.

bye,
hemal vakharia

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 15:47:07 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Horoscope

Hi Rajendra,

I don't know any ftp sites but know a person who may be of your help.

Mr.Juvekar, Ground floor, Madhu-Kamal, 7th lane,Dahanukar colony, Kothrud
Pune 411037 India

He is retired person and has a large database of kundalis (in Marathi we
call the construction of stars on the austrological map as kundali)
and also have all old Panchangs. (Panchnags - yearly austrological magazine)
Plese pay him whatever you feel so, alothough he will ask for it.
Do you cast horoscope ? Can I send my kundali to you?

Thanks.

Mahendra

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 09:47:06 -0600 (CST)
From: ohm prakash <[e-mail]>
Subject: Indian gets 75 years for cooking BARBeQUE in Texas.

Indian was convicted for burning (using gasoline) and murdering his wife
(Aleyamma Varughese) has been sentenced to 75 years in prison by
Denton-Texas Court.  Source: local news and wire reports.

For more news on BBQ-brides in India see 60 minutes, CBS.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:38:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ramsundar L <[e-mail]>
Subject: Just 2 lines

Hai,

LANGUAGE IS A MEDIUM TO COMUUNICATE AND NOT A MEDIUM TO FIGHT.

good-bye
L Ramsundar

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:30:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: KamalX Gets Hemorrhoids...Part 2

KamalX is in Coma. His bleeding continues. His friends console his wife
MIndia that KamalX is a strong and resilient person and that he would recover
soon. MIndia is not so sure. Their house was burgled, set on fire and they
lost two children, Hinder and Mohmden. KamalX had two neighbours Naraz Sharab
and Dung Xia-Pig with whom he never had good relations. Naraz, especially.
Whenever he saw MIndia he made it a point to ask about his hemorrhoids. Are
they still itching ? he would ask and giggle and laugh afterwards. But Naraz
was not the real problem. He was disturbed by the fact that Dung was busy
minting millions where as he is stuck with these stupid doctors & veteri-
narians Sad Vani, Jingal and Lowshi. They are the major share holders in the
company which makes this pesticide, HindEx: about 20%. But KamalX is not sure
why the 80% share holders keep quiet. Are they not concerned that their
company will go down the tubes ? He will come to know clearly when they have
the shareholders meeting. He doesn't know when he will put his business back
together. He wants investment. Uncle Sam and all the people who had money are
investing in the businesses of Dung, Mahathir, Gomez, Chaiwan, Kim Sung,
Maharto, Chuchinda etc. Until 1960 none of them were better than him. Gone
were the days when he used to sell the Junk Cakes from his Garbage Recycling
Plant to the everready Gobar Chev, etc. Even they are broke these days. The
kids brought up by him and sent abroad have also become very indifferent.
They were also behaving like Uncle Sam. But why on earth were some of them
supporting the HindEx company, he never understands. Are they so naive ?
Meanwhile Sad Vani & Cro. insist that HindEx and Preparation H, administered
orally, were the best medicines for KamalX's problems. Their logic is that
all the 'parasites' inside the body should be eliminated completely, even at
the expense of the entire digestive system and bleeding; afterwards, they say
they can do a Digestive System Implant. Why cannot they administer Prepn 'H'
locally for the hemorrhoids and find some new medicine for Kashmiroma ? Their
main aim actually is to take over the hospital and sell their products; some
gullible share holders don't understand that. MIndia is resigned to her fate.
She comes back home, with her eyes filled with tears, recollecting how
KamalX's ancestors gave their Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat to bring them to
this level. She turns on the radio. Its Lata: "..mere watan ke logon. Zara
ankh me bhar lo paani. Jo shaheed huwe hai unki, zara yaad karo qurbaani.."
She cannot bear it, she changes the station. Its Bhagavad Gita: " Dharma
Samsthapanardaya Sambhavami Yuge Yuge". "Sure", she mutters, "but when?".
Its Republic Day, she recollects and puts on the TV. Its the speech of an
ex-P.M..."If India dies who lives ? If India lives, who dies ?????????????"
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Krishna Prasad

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:26:29 +0100
From: POPOWICZ_ALISON/[e-mail]
Subject: Of Fresh Blood Spilling

Of Fresh Blood Spilling

"Tell me, big brother, where is our home?"
My younger brother was saying to me:

"Our veins do not contain a drop of blood
Of the country in which we were born.

"In our motherland, where our roots lie deep,
The people refer to us as 'tourists'.

"No one culture is complete within us
And we speak our mother tongue with an accent.

"We are not displaced persons, nor are
We political or religious refugees;

"Yet in every country we are foreigners
Within any society we are strangers.

"So where is our home?  Where do we belong?"

I did not answer my brother just then
Because I saw a new day breaking and
Light flood the shadowed tide and rocks
With the warm colour of fresh blood spilling.

By Mirek Popowicz

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 13:43:32 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Seetamraju Uday Bhaskar Sarma)
Subject: On secularism & future fo India .... Part 4/4

If something is denied by an external force, protest is inevitable. Force
begets an equal and opposite reaction.  Leave the power in the hands of
whoever gets the majority.  And convince me that once the hindus get to
power, the people ruling will be the `indian-mafia' (now, the sangh is an
equivalent to the word mafia in the secularist dictionary).  And convince
me that the hindus would start persecuting the muslims.  And convince me
that once the BJP is in power, it will give way to the hard-core right -
i.e., the RSS/VHP.  And convince me that : there are no humans among
hindus, who will `vote' to prevent anything bad to the muslims : or that :
: they will be a silent majority.

And convince me that this streak of radicalism in hinduism is a random
happening in history.  And that the hindus who watched from the sidelines
as outsider after outsider dragged a trail of destruction thru the
subcontinent were not the ancestors of the people of today.That the hindus
of today are as aggressive and possessive as anyone can be, unlike his
ancestors. That he no longer deserves to be called hindu, as there is a
world of difference between the hinduism, that the secularits scream is
dead, and the hinduism that is practised today.

And convince me that the hindus would avoid bismillah khan's shahnai
recitals, or that hindus will refuse to work together with prof. kalam,
or that bhabha reactor will be renamed... etc...   I cant fathom the
cause (or the fear) that forces the secularists to behave the way they do.
Violence cannot be suppressed.  Even in 5000 AD, the UTOPIA that's the
stuff secularists dreams are made up of, will also have killings simply
because there is always the fringe element.  But because of the fringe
behaviour, U have no goddam right to tie up the rest.  Law cannot
force a person to behave.  Its responsibility.

I dont care about the RJB-BM dispute, personally.  But what I care about
and want to see is THINGS LIKE THIS : Whoever wins the next elections,
congress or BJP, I dont care : when they are stepping into the parliament
for the first time for the new session, I want to see an arati being done
to those WHO LIKE IT DONE.  To the `others' who dont like, either walk
in earlier or later. If U see religion or bigotry in that arati, go to hell.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 22:02:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Nidhi Srinivas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Parikh's "i told you so!" note

hi netters

appended is saurabh parikh's original message:
> I just read in the NEWS digest that, "BABRI MASJID COMMITTEE CALLS FOR
> BOYCOTT OF R-DAY CELEBRATIONS".
> Can anybody explain me (on the net) that how can one "true Indian" ask
> his "fellow Indians" to boycott REPUBLIC DAY CELEBRATIONS.
> Any "BRIGHT" ideas ??
> SAURABH PARIKH

one visualises saurabh sitting by his screen, hands across his chest, looking
a trifle self righteous and saying "i told you so! well you pseudoseculars and
muslim apologists: what do you have to say to THAT?!"

well, actually there is a point in this disconcerting news, though perhaps not
the one saurabh intended. developing countries have never really been known
for great leaders (gandhi, nehru, lumumba, lee kuan yew are exceptions not the
rule). sadly we tend to have idi amins, samuel does, indira gandhis, bhuttos,
joshis instead. so some dumb muslim leaders urged a boycot of republic day.
so am i supposed to assume all muslims are unpatriotic and out to sell our
nation to pakistan? surely that would be unfair to the many manay muslims
that do not believe in such leaders.

after all, on that basis, why not i accuse all hindus of being racist and
violent on the basis of what was caused by some of them recently in india?
or, how about i say all marathas are really out to get tamils and muslims
on the basis of what the shiv sena succeeded in unleashing in bombay?

i hope we all realise that it is unfair as well as counterproductive to
assume the extremes represented by muslim or hindu fundamentalists as being
the norm. unfair to the many many indians who detest the recent actions of
hindu right wing parties as well as the posturing of such muslim leaders.
and counterproductive to any attempt at keeping our country together and
moving forward.

on that note, happy republic day everyone,

affly
nidhi

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:50:45 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Salim Imani)
Subject: Query about "Convertible Rupee"

        Would some knowledgeable soul explain us the meaning of "Partially
Convertible Rupee" and "Fully convertible Rupee" and its repercussions on
the Indian Economy.  Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:03:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Joju Sebastian <[e-mail]>
Subject: Racism

Hi Netters:

This is in response to Mr. Krishna's posting titled 'Racism ....' !

I partially agree with Mr. Krishna that our people (Indians) discriminate
among ourselves.  I have felt that my own cousins use to behave that way
just because of my accent.  It took four and a half years for them to
atleast stop teasing me on my accent.  Not that I have changed much but
they settled down themselves.

Marriage proposal time is the worst.  Usual comments like; "She is very
fair and pretty but he kind of look dark", "he is very handsome but,
look at her", "he is a catholic but she is a non-christian", "he is
bhramin and she is some low caste" and so on.

We descriminate ourselves on almost everything.  Don't you readers think
the same way ?  Isn't it a sad truth ?  What right we have got to say that
we are discriminated at workplace and shopping malls ?

Shame on ourselves !!!!

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 02:22:49 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Recipes

Dear Netters
      This is a follow up for my previous article on recipes. I did not
receive India-D due to reasons not within my grasp. So I do not know if
there was any response in the net regarding this topic. Guys and importantly
gals please reply to me in person or to the net if you have anything to say.
I am still under the impression that Indian girls are better cooks than
a majority of guys. This is primarily because of the earlier exposure.
So netters I think it's time that we learn to make our cooking versatile
by way of learning something  more constructive and useful for our daily
living in this land.
Thanking you
Basker Mathrubootham

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:01:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Ravi Shankar <[e-mail]>
Subject: Regarding computer net in India

 I happened to read in the Digest regarding computer network called ICNET(or
something similar) which is suppossed to be a network authorised by The Govt.
of India.  I checked with one of my friends in Bangalore, IISc., according to
him the only authorised computer network in India is the ERNET (which he uses
in his institution).  He has also asked his system manager regarding the same
and has been given a negative reply.
  I request that anybody who is seriously considering this issue examine it
carefully before sending any order for subscription.
  Please correct me if I am mistaken.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:53:26 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (D V Nishar)
Subject: Reply to Naresh Chand's article on AT&T

I do appreciate Bell Labs' efforts to provide service to India, but
may I ask you one question? Is Bell Labs' motive purely altruistic?
I would guess not! Every company has a charter to make money for its
shareholders. And in a capitalist economy like US, the customers look
for the best value (may it be money-wise, service-wise or any other
criteria that they use). So, if Indians are used to waiting a while to
get an MCI operator for qts, etc and would like to save money (and MCI
does offer substantial savings, so does Sprint), why not?? After all
that is what the customer wants. What you are saying is akin to the
cries of "Buy American, not Japanese" philosophy which Detroit propagated
in the eighties. Do you think that saved GM from making huge losses?
I, for one, would want the freedom to choose the products and services I
use depending on a set of criteria that I value. If you want to use AT&T
because they are doing something in India, then why not use Sprint, because
they donate a percentage of your phone bill for an environment fund (atleast
they used to).

On a slightly different note, internet cannot be used to promote commercial
products, and since you mentioned that you work for AT&T, I would be a little
careful of the gray areas.

Anyway, I do appreciate what AT&T is doing, but probably not enough to
switch :-)

-Dipchand

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 13:14:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: "A. Pande" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Russian News Digest

A friend working in the area of Soviet studies would like to
know if a Russian news digest similar to INN digest operates
on any network. It would be helpful if anyone who knows got in touch.

Alpana

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:05:41 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Sambar - A Postscript

Dear Netters,
I am posting this reply upon receieving several reactions to the article I
posted in the Sambar series which unfortunately culminated into "you know he/
she was..." war. At the outset let me make it explicitly clear that my article
was not against Tamils. It was an attempt to dispel the self proclaimed myth
that all the  worthy sons/daughters of soil are necessarily Tamils. I provided,
as far as possible, precise & non-controversial evidence in this regard. The
flurry of controversial aftermath, most of which made its way into my personal
email account, has prompted me to organise this general reply.
A set of people commended my effort in replying the way I did. Some of them
acknowledged that they were not aware of several facts. I am indeed flattered.
Second set of people-who are truly my well-wishers-chided me for even reacting
to such well known tactic of sloganeering, flag-waving and banner raising.
As I said they are my well-wishers. Another set of people very politely
corrected certain factual errors. I stand corrected on all those errors (However
I still stand by the Padma Subramanyam boycott episode).
Finally the last set of people - who scrutnized my article with their hawkish
eyes and attitude. It seemed to me that they were looking for the proverbial
Freuidian slip to nail me.Apparently they found in the last 2 lines of my 2nd
article, blew it out of proportion and sent me some rather nasty replies
accusing me of what they called generalization.As expected, the content of
these replies was hollow and tone was loud complete with superlative adjectives,
blatantly arrogant wit and sentences ending with bang(!) rather than full-stop.
Tut,tut,tut they clearly missed the spirit of this and rest of the articles
which followed the intiator.For them I have the following:
When I mentioned some names wrt Tamil Isai movement, I deliberately kept the
honourable K.B.Sundarambal out of list.Although she sang exclusively in Tamil,
her devine music/singing was inspired by and offerings to Lord Murugan,
her beloved Pazhani Andavan.I excercised this sort of precise distinction
while providing evidence. Please read and re-read this, there is a message in
it.Despite this if you want to be clouded,color blinded in your perceptions -
So be it.
Brickbats,boquets and constructive criticism apart - I have a practical reason
to request, and reluctantly so at the expense of losing some potentially
interesting contacts, to stop these replies.You see,my disk-quota gets full
at faster rate and conseqently have to do house-keeping more often than before.
Sincerely, Dinesh.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 08:59:18 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail] (C. D. Prakash)
Subject: Some Personal Reflections

Hello Everybody

        Well I do hear people projecting a possible split of India
as a nation gauging from the fallout of the Ayodhya events. For that
matter I happened to read in INN Digest about our humble Prime minister
fearing the inevitable if secularism is not beleived in. My heart
certainly cries for such dismayed fears because I just cannot Imagine
myself being cut into pieces being associated with every corner of India.

        Having born in Tamil Nadu, roots in karnataka, graduated in
maharastra, worked in Delhi , temprorily put up at Andhra and orissa
and residential at Madya pradesh, I for one cannot think of a split because
every place in India means so much to my life.

        Infact when I realize that there would be millions who would
have similar associations like I did, there is confidence and hope that
such an event is simply out of question. India is UNITED and will remain
so come whatsoever the problems.

        Well I sometimes think though outwardly it may seem infeasible,
that India be declared as a country made of one state ie India and so
slowly this regionalism and barriers based on language are broken. If
Babri masjid could be broken then why not this Idealism.

Bye
C. D. Prakash

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:16:00 +1100
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Telephone rates to India

AT&T is not a charitable organization. They are doing all these because
it makes good business sense to them. Joining SPRINT or MCI makes good
economic sense to us.

> If one co. has enough traffic, the rates will go down further.

Why not SPRINT or MCI ?

> AT&T operator gives credit also if you had problem with
> your call. Many people use this to reduce their bill.

SPRINT and MCI also do this.

Last month I paid $.98/minute by calling India thru SPRINT and I am
satisfied with the services.

vipin

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 1993 23:42:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Khursh Ahmed <[e-mail]>
Subject: We can't let India be destroyed...

I am very heartened to see a definite change in these discussions about
the analysis of communal riots in India.  Several comments have been made
recently that do not blame the victims, the Muslims, of stirring up these
riots.  It is sickening to see so much propaganda being spread in the
media by sympathizers of BJP, RSS and Shiva Sena against Muslims.  They
also implied that somehow all Hindus subscribe to this hateful ideology -
which is far from the truth.

When communal riots are initiated for the political objectives of a few
groups, untold miseries, suffering and pain is caused to ALL members of
the society.  Whether a Hindu or a Muslim is killed, these actions
constitute crimes against humanity.  Yet, so many political groups in
India (and elsewhere) have resorted to these vicious tactics.  Even the
Congress Party is guilty of having used these methods (e.g. anti-Sikh
riots after Mrs. Gandhi's death).

I appeal to all those who truly love India and who wish to see it survive
and continue its rich multicultural heritage, to speak up and act against
the destructive and hateful climate.  We can't let a few narrow political
ideologies destroy India.  These riots have set India back in so many
ways.  It will take years to heal the wounds and appease the feeling of
vengeance.  The economic damage will also take a long time to recover.  I
can't understand how humans can cause such pain to other humans?  We have
enough problems of poverty, disease and under-development.

We must end this cycle of violence - remember the words of Mahatma Gandhi,
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind!"

I would like to see some suggestions on how we, working together, can
change the tide of events.  We have two powerful resources - our sanity
and the means of free expression through India-D.

Dr. Khursheed Ahmed

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Promod Pratap <@cunyvm.cuny.edu:[e-mail]>
Subject: Who is the most racist?

     I beg to disagree with Krishna's cousin that Indians are more racist
than others.  Krishna states that the British and the Americans have never
discriminated against their own people:  I beg to differ.  It depends what
one means by "own people":  there has been discrimination in Britain of the
Scottish, the Irish, and the Welsh.  In the US, the Irish-Americans
discriminate against the Italian-Americans who discriminate against the
Polish-Americans, who discriminate against the Jews... ad nauseum.
Discrimination is common to all societies where there is a mixture of
peoples.  To quote a song by Tom Lehrer (a political satirist):

All the white folks hate the black folks
the black folks hate the white folks
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule.
....
The Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
The Hindus hate the Muslims
And everybody hates the Jews

So, you see, everybody does it!!  What's happening in Bosnia, is a prime
example of racism!

Promod Pratap

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End of India Interest Group Digest
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