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- Newsgroups: talk.abortion
- Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ncar!neit.cgd.ucar.edu!kauff
- From: kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman)
- Subject: the z/e/f's right to life (was: Who are you guys?)
- Message-ID: <1993Jan12.193845.19994@ncar.ucar.edu>
- Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance)
- Organization: Boulder CO
- References: <markp.726853299@joplin.wri.com> <29611@oasys.dt.navy.mil> <markp.726862548@joplin.wri.com>
- Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:38:45 GMT
- Lines: 49
-
- > = markp@joplin.wri.com (Mark Pundurs) writes:
- >> = bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) writes:
- >>> = In talk.abortion, markp@joplin.wri.com (Mark Pundurs) writes:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- >>>You're half-right; at this point, it's vital (no pun intended) to
- >>>ask whether the z/e/f has the right to life. New thread, anyone?
-
- >>Have already started that in this thread. I have stated that no such
- >>right exists. Why don't you prove there is in one short post?
-
- >As to the z/e/f's right to life:
- >
- >A first stab at defining what makes us human is "reasoning, free-willed
- >individuality." (From this follows our rights: right to life, right
- >to free speech, etc.) But we also regard newborn infants as human (I
- >hope!); and they sure aren't reasoning. We can reconcile this fact
- >with the above definition only by expanding that definition of
- >humanity (and the possession of human rights) to include the potential
- >for reasoning, free-willed individuality. Newborns have this potential --
- >and so do z/e/f's.
-
- Fetus' maybe, zygotes no.
-
- a) "human" is frequently used in two very different ways, *roughly*:
- human[1] : made of human tissue
- human-life[1] : made of human tissue & alive
- human[2] : a "person"
- human-life[2] : a "person"
- So let's be clear we're discussing "personhood"
-
- b) while "reasoning, free-willed individuality" probably won't be
- an acceptable defn. of "person" to all, it does *suggest* the
- essence of the concept. While we probably will never agree on a
- completely unambiguous defn. of "person", it seems that
- most reasonable people would agree that the current colloquial usage
- of the term "person" and any meaningful concept of "personhood" requires
- at *least* the possibility of something similar to "individuality" and
- "reasoning" (or some type of thought process).
-
- Please: those who disagree please make a clear, concise statement
- at this point. There's no point in continuing if you disagree here.
-
- c) assuming you agree with (a) & (b) above, a zygote cannot be a "person",
- (in any normal/reasonable usage of the term) because clearly it is
- physically impossible for a zygote to have anything similar to reasoning
- (physically, it has no brain). Hence zygotes cannot be referred to
- as "persons" in any meaningful way.
-
- -Brian
-