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- Newsgroups: sci.physics
- Path: sparky!uunet!psinntp!scylla!daryl
- From: daryl@oracorp.com (Daryl McCullough)
- Subject: Re: hidden variables
- Message-ID: <1993Jan10.141141.7849@oracorp.com>
- Organization: ORA Corporation
- Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 14:11:41 GMT
- Lines: 59
-
- Paul Budnik writes:
-
- >> In other words, the only way a hidden variables theory can work to
- >> explain the twin pair experiment is if the orientation of a distant
- >> measurement device instantaneously affects the measured properties of
- >> a particle here.
- >
- >This argument strikes me as bordering on the perverse, not because it is
- >untrue but because it implys a difference between hidden variable theories
- >and quantum mechanics that does not exist. Bell's result implys that
- >quantum mechanics is a nonlocal theory. The observation of at least
- >one of the two particles in a test of Bell's inequality must be influenced
- >by *both* measurements to reproduce the predictions of quantum mechanics
- >PERIOD. Quantum mechanics implys that the observation of one particle
- >is instantaneously influenced by *both* measurements even if those
- >measurements are separated by billions of light years. This prediction
- >of quantum mechanics is not evidence against more complete theories.
- >On the contrary it is a powerful argument against the arbitrary and completely
- >unjustified assumption in quantum mechanics that the wave function changes
- >instantaneously when an observation is made. If this assumption
- >is false, quantum mechanics *must* be an incomplete theory because there
- >is an unknown space-time structure to these nonlinear changes in the
- >wave function.
-
- Paul, I agree with you (and disagree with the complacency of most
- physicists such as John Baez) that Bell's Theorem should be worrisome
- for quantum mechanics. However, I don't see how in the world you can
- claim that quantum mechanics predicts nonlocal effects, regardless of
- whether one assumes a hidden-variables completion. The form of Bell's
- proof is the following:
-
- 1. Assume a hidden-variables completion of quantum mechanics.
- 2. Assume that all interactions are local (travel at light-speed
- or lower).
- 3. Assume classical probability theory.
- 4. Assume the probabilistic predictions of quantum mechanics are
- correct.
- 5. Show that all this leads to a contradiction.
-
- Assumption 1 is necessary (in Bell's proof, anyway) to get a
- contradiction. Therefore, I don't know how you can say that quantum
- mechanics is nonlocal, regardless of whether one assumes a
- hidden-variables completion.
-
- Also, I don't know how you can say that collapse of the wave function
- is a necessary assumption in the derivation of the contradiction. Bell
- didn't mention collapse of the wave function, he simply used the
- quantum mechanical prediction for probabilities of measurements. In
- the case of the EPR experiment, there is a compound measurement, where
- the spin of two different particles is measured (with respect to two
- different axes). Since spins of different particles are commuting
- observables, the results don't depend on the order the measurements
- are made. There is no need to assume collapse of the wave function
- between measurements.
-
- Daryl McCullough
- ORA Corp.
- Ithaca, NY
-
-