NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/rec/org/mensa/8955

Internet Message Format | 1992-12-28 | 4.8 KB

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From: [e-mail] (Mitch Silverman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,alt.slack
Subject: Re^2: Atheism and Intelligence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:48:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL
Lines: 84

[e-mail] (Thomas Grant Edwards) writes:

>I'd like to add that there is nothing wrong with developing
>a sense of spirituality while remaining an atheist.  I enjoy
>Wiccan circles, catholic masses, technopagan rituals, etc.
>I know the spirituality I experience is metaphorical and
>not part of the reality which science reveals.

>I used to be a very "violent atheist," being totally
>unaccepting of any kind of spirituality as "stupid."
>I found that this stance really began to dehumanize me.

>I realize now that like the illusion of love, the illusion of
>spirituality is a key part of our humanity, and I revel in it,
>but continue to keep touch with reality.

>-Thomas

Hmmm.  Speaking as a atheistic, Jewish, ordained SubGenius minister
(I try not to let my hobbies interfere with one another), I feel I
have to ask: does feeling that a sense of spirituality is useful
and enjoyable while also being an atheist require that that
selfsame spirituality be be illusory?

Even to a skeptical atheist ('skeptical' in the sense that the
'Skeptical Enquirer' intends), there are phenomena that are
scientifically *explainable* that have not yet been
scientifically *explained*.  No one can deny the *existence*, for
instance, of glossolalia (speaking in tongues) or the prevalence
of similar interpretations of near-death experiences--or for that
matter, even the existence of religions themselves.  Yet the
*existence* of these cultural and/or neurobiological phenomena
proves nothing about their causes.

The existence of religion to my mind 'proves' nothing more than
the human need to believe that someone be pulling the strings,
that existence have have a 'telos'.  The spiritual phenomena
associated with religion (e.g. glossolalia) require nothing more
than an extremely complicated (and not yet fully understood,
obviously) human nervous system in order to be explained.

I've always wondered if perhaps the common interpretation of a
NDE is something neurologically or culturally mediated--I'm very
suspicious of 'researchers' who claim to be unbiased, who claim
that their research had *no* confounds, and then claim that the
similarity in such experiences 'proves' that something spiritual
*outside the human mind* exists.  Occam's Razor, anyone?

As I said above, I'm an atheistic Jewish SubGenius minister.  I
find I still enjoy going to synagogue (even at Conservative
synagogues, where the traditional Jewish anthropomorphic deity is
very much included in the ritual.  Oddly enough, I find I prefer
the Conservative liturgy to the Reform, though being a
Reconstructionist who was nine or ten before my family left the
Conservative synagogue we used to attend, perhaps this is not so
surprising--but I digress) though I have no illusions about my
prayers influencing any sort of deity.  And I also find the
Church of the SubGenius very fulfilling and useful (in a First
Amendment sense, as well as in a more directly spiritual sense.)
Yet in my life as a whole, I try to do what I feel is right,
following Rabbi Hillel's dictate that the whole of Torah is to
"Do not unto others that which you find harmful.  All the rest is
commentary.  Now go forth and study." Am I doing anything that
conflicts with an agnostic, atheitic, skeptical worldview?  I
really *don't* believe that there is a God, just that one ought
not to treat others as one would not like to be treated.  As H.L.
Mencken put it, "A large part of altruism, even when it is
perfectly honest, is grounded upon the fact that it is
uncomfortable to have unhappy people about one."

So anyway, answer me this: does human spirituality, in any of its
forms, necessarily require a belief in [a] god[ess, s, esses]?  Or
may one be 'spiritual' without any more than a recognition that
one is human, and thus [perhaps] one enjoys certain rituals for
themselves, and for the human contact they involve?

I guess I'll cross-post this missive to soc.culture.jewish (where
I expect to betold I'm not a Jew) alt.atheism, and alt.slack,
just to see what happens.  Followups to alt.tasteless, perhaps? 8-)

Mitch Silverman                    | As Voltaire never said, "I
Student, New College of            | disagree with what you say,
the University of South Florida    | but will defend to the death
[e-mail]           | your right to say it."