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- From: bwalsh@math.rutgers.edu (Bertram Walsh)
- Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
- Subject: Re: Furtwaengler on Toscanini
- Message-ID: <Dec.30.11.30.37.1992.15011@math.rutgers.edu>
- Date: 30 Dec 92 16:30:37 GMT
- References: <1992Dec29.044256.14188@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu> <1992Dec29.101304.11724@lloyd.Camex.COM>
- Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
- Lines: 54
-
- Re just a couple of the more egregious things in Chris Ischay's post
- on the Furtwaengler letter:
-
- >I don't have any references here at work, but my recollection is that
- >Furtwangler had reason to be jealous of or inimical toward Toscanini.
- >And he was not the only conductor. Competition was not unknown back
- >then, and I think Toscanini horned out a few Big Names in his time.
-
- Hey, you think competition ever was unknown?
-
- >>Moreover, I became aware that the Mediterraneans don't have any
- >>symphonies, never owned or wrote any.
-
- >Racial slur. Low blow, Wilhelm!
-
- Racial slur my left foot. Assessment of the direction of the local
- musical culture, sure. Ethnocentric, probably. Deadpan humor can't
- be excluded. But try turning it around. Suppose an Italian conductor
- muttered under his breath that the Germans, RW included, never under-
- stood opera. Would we call that a racial slur, or just smile a bit
- at the Europeans doing one of their standard numbers on each other?
-
- >>Bizet Arlesienne Suite and the like are yet the best of the kind
- >>(Berlioz belongs to the German history of music in so far as he is
- >>symphonist in earnest).
-
- >If it's good, it must be German, even if it's not.
-
- Don't forget Berlioz's assertion that he had taken up music where
- Beethoven left it. He asked to be numbered with the Germans when he
- said that. And notice the qualifying clause. You can say that a sym-
- phony is just an Italian overture with elephantiasis, but it caught the
- disease among the German-speakers. The developers of the form have
- some intrinsic interest in it. Every American is a jazz maven in Europe.
-
- >>The fame of Toscanini seems to be based partly on his memory, and
- >>his uncompromising ruler personality, and partly on his roots in
- >>fascist Italy. Nothing derives from the artist in him, for he is,
- >>at least as long as he conducts symphonies, boring and mediocre.
- >>In Italian operas that may be different.
-
- >I find irony in the fact that Toscanini was equally celebrated for his
- >conducting of Wagner, who I think was German.
-
- I find irony in the fact that Furtwaengler, who has had to take so
- much post-mortem flak for remaining at the deathbed of morality in
- Central Europe, is here revealed as a closet non-authoritarian of the
- Bruno Walter type. Again, note that F. restricts his comments to T.
- as a conductor of symphonies.
-
- Bertram Walsh | "I enjoy all singing, but par-
- Dep't of Mathematics | ticularly songs which are old."
- Rutgers University | -- Apollo
- New Brunswick NJ 08903/USA | (at Didyma, 3rd c AD)
-