NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/misc/jobs/offered/15272

Internet Message Format | 1993-01-02 | 20.2 KB

Xref: sparky misc.jobs.offered:15272 misc.jobs.offered.entry:406
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.offered,misc.jobs.offered.entry
Path: sparky!uunet!think.com!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!amelia.nas.nasa.gov!eugene
From: [e-mail] (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject:    -->[l/m 9/2/92]---->Read BEFORE posting: stylistic consensus
Keywords: who, what, where, when, why, how
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 12:15:09 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Summary: Without style, you might not get a good employee, you'll never know, \
    Wow! 100+ lines edited out...... Text reshuffled.
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Eugene N. Miya)
Lines: 441

    Table of Contents (this list)
    INTRODUCTION
    HEADER COMMENTS
        Newsgroups:, Followup-To:, cross-posts
            misc.jobs.offered.entry
        Subject: Lines and other Header information
    DISCLAIMERS
    OFFERING SUMMARY
    DETAILED OFFERING


 INTRODUCTION -- RECOMMENDED POSTING STYLE
 =========================================
 WHY?
 ----
 To make searches faster and easier.  Posting to the Net is not like writing
 newspaper copy.  The following suggestions are made for net media and
 its various interfaces (Usenet: misc.jobs.offered|contract).
 News interfaces have limitations and powers beyond mere pieces of paper
 (hardware consists typically of CRTs and software which formats and searches)
 Some users have automated information ferrets to find offering posts:
 a reason a more formally recommended style is suggested.
 These are suggestions, not posting requirements.


 HEADER COMMENTS
 ---------------
 Postings have two parts: the HEADER and the MESSAGE body.
--A sample header (your system may differ):

 Newsgroups: misc.jobs.offered
 Subject: Location, Read BEFORE posting: stylistic consensus
 Summary: Without style, you might not get a good employee, you'll never know
 Expires:
 Reply-To: your address goes here.
 Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
 Distribution: localarea?
 Organization: Your Company here
 Keywords: who, what, where, when, why, how

1) Newsgroups: you are here: misc.jobs.offered.  You can cross-post your
   offering, BUT, if you do, make certain to use a Followup-To: line directed
   out of your cross-posted newsgroups.  Try:
  Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
   or
  Followup-To: poster        [/dev/null is 'less friendly']
   to deflect posting discussion or criticism from cross-posted groups.

1a) A new newsgroup has been created: misc.jobs.offered.entry.
    1) Please post ONLY entry-level jobs there.  No sense in posting
        jobs requiring lots of experience to no reason.
        If you say "entry," then mean "entry."
    2) The group was created for entry-level people.  No need to
        cross-post to misc.jobs.offered.  It was designed to
        separate the flow, reduce competition with m.j.o., and
        give people a chance.
    3) What's entry?  Well, other terms might be "fresh out of
        school:" high school, college (BS/A, MS/A, PhD, MD, SD, etc.),
        with little practical experience, new to the field, etc.

2) Subject: your single most important text line (more than the rest).
   Many readers use commands (like '=') which ONLY show Subject:
   lines to deciding whether or not they want to read a posting.
   A non-descriptive Subject: places you at a disadvantage:
    "Job offered"        # So what?
    "Job"            # We know this, the group is misc.jobs
    "Position"        # similarly non-descript.
   Past experience has shown that a following style of "Subject:" line
   is most useful to your potential readers:

 Subject: USA, Yourcity, CA 12345, Computer Operator @ XYZ Computers Inc.

   The exact style, of course, is arbitrary, but the sample shown above has
   a number of features.

m  Primarily, the first field gives the approximate geographic location and
m  allows the reader to skip those offers which have an obvious geographic
m  mismatch.  The fields are separated by punctuation characters ('@' signs
m  and commas) to help the reader to spot fields quickly by eye.

m  The full international Zip code is suggested for completeness
m  (even though most posters in the States might assume that everyone
m  in the world ought to know where "CA" is).  If for no other reason,
m  this will encourage posters outside of the States to adopt the same format.

m  The second field gives a 2 to 3 word job description: this summary phrase
m  allows the readers to skip the offer if there is an obvious talent/
m  aspiration mis-match with what they are expecting from their new job.
m  The third field announces the company name, which also gives the
m  potential reader some idea of the flavour of the job.  (It should be
m  noted that this information cannot be assumed to be already available in
m  the "Organization:" line, since this is not always standard).

   For example:

 Subject: GB-M13 9PL, Computer Operator @ XYZ Computers Ltd
 Subject: F-75123, Computer Operator @ XYZ Computers Cie
 <end header comments>

+If this becomes a genuinely international newsgroup, we suggest
+putting the country, region, and city first, or at least before
+the company - some newsreaders don't show the entire subject line
+without reading the article, and intuition is that people are
+more likely to be biased geographically than for or against particular
+companies.  Without the country, international ZIP codes may not
+help - personally couldn't begin to guess where either of the
+above are.

 DISCLAIMERS
 -----------
     Every once in a while, one sees an article prefaced by a disclaimer
 something like, "I'm posting this for a friend; I know nothing about the
 validity of the job."  The implication seems to be, "If you respond to this
 message, you're on your own.  If he takes you for all you're worth, don't
 come crying to me."

     This, of course, is unkosher.  Since by the poster's single-handed
 actions, the message has been seen by thousands of readers, it is not
 unreasonable to expect the poster to make some effort to verify the validity
 of the offer.  If the offer comes from a friend, this effort may merely be
 the trust one has in that friend.  If the offer comes from someone the poster
 doesn't know and trust, or someone unfamiliar with Usenet and misc.jobs.*
 policies, it behooves the poster to explain the netiquette and ask a few
 questions.

     A quick and simple background check could save your reputation and
 mailbox.

 OFFERING SUMMARY
 ----------------
  WHY THIS SECTION?
  -----------------
 CRTs are not paper pages.  Terminals, terminal emulators, and windows
 do not have standard line lengths: 23 lines? 66 lines? 33 lines or 10, placing
 this series of one-liners will make readers happier.  You have attracted
 the reader, he or she now sees the first "page" of lines (suggest <20 lines).
 Please make lines no longer than about 72-75 characters.  Some
 newsreading software truncates long lines.  Use the "Return" key
 rather than trusting your word processing software to insert returns;
 otherwise some newsreading software may show only the first line of
 each paragraph.

 These are really only the 5-Ws (and H).

1) Job Description: Position Title:
    - FT/PT/TMP/SUM/INT/FAC (on subj line)
      (Full Time, Part time, Temporary, Summer, Intern/Co-op, Faculty)
    - Min requirements should be at top.  Some type of mention should be
      made on whether or not the company offers internships/co-ops.
2) Company Name:
        Division Or Department Name:
3) Work Location (street/town/state):    # being precise describes commute
4) Time Frame: (When is application cut-off? When is decision date?
        When does work start?)
5) Point of Contact (name/email/tel):
        Preferred Resume Format (US-Mail, FAX, ASCII, Postscript, etc.):
6) Mandatory Requirements: (No candidates considered that lack these.)
    Legal Restrictions: (Citizenship, security clearance, bonding, etc.)
        US Citizenship Or Security Clearance Required:
7) Experience required:
8) Desirable Qualifications: (Prefer candidates with these additional skills.)
9) Salary:    (Readers wish to encourage posting this optional field)
        Non-Salary Compensation (Bonuses, Options):
        Vacation, Benefits, Day Care:

Check, 20 lines or less?

    If not specified, then it is assumed that anyone that has a
    legal right to work in the country will be considered.
    Beware! Make sure that any restrictions are legally defensible
    in the country in which the work is to be done.)

        Beware! Make sure that the requirements actually
        relate to the functional abilities needed.
        For example, requiring a B.S. C.S. might be construed to be
    a form of age discrimination, since the older persons in the field of
    computer science graduated with majors in other fields because
    most schools did not offer the B.S. C.S. degree until recently.
        Specify instead B.S. C.S. or equivalent combination of education
    and experience.)

Solicitation:  (Recruiter, Job-Shop, Direct Employer,
        Two-Party Direct Contract, etc.)

DETAILED POSITION DESCRIPTION:
------------------------------
        (Put details here. Tell why its a great project.)
Travel Requirements:       (E.g., 20% of time spent on overnight travel, or
                           we have 30 offices nationwide, and we will transfer
                           you every couple weeks, etc. Omit if no travel.)
Job Duration:              (If omitted, then the job is assumed to be as
                           permanent as any job is these days. Of course, there
                           are no guarantees. If the position is temporary,
                           be sure to say so: there are tax implications.)

DETAILED OFFERING
 Company Description:
    Your chance to be creative, describe: major products and services.
        why you are a great company to work for.
    Tell what your net earnings, profit margins, and dividends are.
    Brag on your major customers and clients.  Tell what your market
    share is.)

Number of employees (this location/all locations):
        Company Values (Drug-Free, Smoke-Free, Just-Plain-Free):
DRUG-TESTING POLICY:       (Pre-offer, post-offer, random, reasonable cause,
                           impairment testing, you are assumed to be a
                           responsible adult, etc.)
SMOKING POLICY:            (Smoke-free environment, non-smokers only,
                           we all smoke and hope you do too, etc.)
Drug testing.  Does the company require a drug test performed on employees?
    Company Net earnings, Major Products.
A "Puffery" field, so each company could describe what it is the "market
leader" in.  For example:
>
>   "Bubba Co. is a market leader in Beer Brewing Technology."

It provides a checklist of items of information that are important to the
readership of misc.jobs.offered and misc.jobs.contract. It organizes the
information in the most efficient manner for those reading the postings, and
helps to ensure that you get responses from the largest number of qualified
applicants and the smallest number of unqualified applicants.

OTHER BENEFITS:            (Relocation, insurance, profit sharing, vacation,
                           etc. Omit if this is all negotiable.)

 Legal Disclaimers:
        (Affirmative Action, EEO, etc.)

Old text:

A job description must strive to give the "right" amount of information.
Too much, and you bore the reader or project as arrogant.  Too little and
the reader might ignore the offering because of the extra time and effort
it takes to learn more information (play email tag).

Please limit 'puffery'; the same space used claiming to be a 'market leader'
(like every other company posting) could be better used to describe further
your job or environment.

Please don't describe 'world class' skills in your employee requirements
unless you really need them and plan to pay a high premium for them; there
are lots of very ordinary people reading the job listings who can do your
job but won't respond to such a description.

Readers do not cull postings maliciously.  They seek a good match between
employer and potential employee.  No sense in causing grief for
either potential employee or employer.  If you have multiple offerings,
the current consensus is to have multiple postings.  (If you don't
agree with this, say so and this advice will be modified.)

Please state MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS in EDUCATION, EXPERIENCE, etc.
Please state BENEFITS.  Please describe the COMPANY or INSTITUTION.
- U.S. citizenship and/or permanent resident status
- Security clearance
- Background checks
- Drug tests
- Polygraph tests
- Psychological profiles
- Dress codes
- Medical exams
- The location of the job, if different from the location mentioned in
 the SUBJECT line
- The presence or absence of car/van pools

Please state WHEN the position becomes available.

Please note that MAXIMUM REQUIREMENTS ARE ILLEGAL AND CONSIDERED AGE
DISCRIMINATION UNDER US FEDERAL LAW!!  Requirements such as "3 to 7 years
of experience" are a typical violation of Federal law.  If the individual
has the minimum requirements and is willing to work for the given salary,
then maximum requirements are not relevant and, in fact, are illegal.
See the tail end regarding the laws.

Please be receptive to their questions.  If you have specifics which
you can elaborate, please say that you can accept email inquiries about
the offering, please supply an email address.  Please be prepared.
You have an obligation to insure privacy.

Note: some information is regarded as personal and care should be taken
when giving it out.  An example of such is salary information.
Please be discreet.

To avoid missing out on contractors/consultants who only subscribe to
misc.jobs.contract, be sure you include that group for any non-permanent
job offers.

=====

Posted offerings and resumes were more casual at one time.  And it's free.
I personally wish it could continue to be so casual, but....unfortunately,
the volume and the competition makes it difficult to sift through the
field to find the right match.  Good luck.

YES, people accept employment offers from the Net.
Personal observation: I believe the Net acts somewhat like
a filter for employers (unlike, say, a newspaper), through the
requirements on the job seeker of having a rough idea how to use a
computer to read the postings, and of being able to use a text editor
to respond.  But it's getting more and more difficult to sift thru all
the inappropriate postings and resumes.  Hence, this message.

misc.jobs.offered => offerings only, NO discussion, "Followup-To: poster"
misc.jobs.offered.entry => ENTRY LEVEL only, ditto, "Followup-To: poster"
misc.jobs.resumes => resumes only, NO discussion, "Followup-To: poster"
misc.jobs.contract => contract work specifically (offerings & ...)
misc.jobs.misc => DISCUSSION, NO offers, NO resumes
Questions? news.announce.newusers
Consider other groups on different topics like rec.travel for moving info.

If this posting seems initially a bit long, this is deliberate.
The Net edits this message.  I'll cut and paste pieces as people
request and as I accumulate comments about less than consensus topics.
This message is the result of 100+ people who expressed opinions
on wading through many offerings.

This style posting is subject to comment and improvement.  Just send
mail to [e-mail] or {uunet,mailrus, other UUCP}!ames!eugene.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The follow of course is for the USA.
From Michael Berch:

EQUAL OPPORTUNITY IS THE LAW

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended, prohibits
discrimination in hiring, promotion, discharge, pay, fringe benefits,
and other aspects of employment, on the basis of race, color,
religion, sex, or national origin.

The Age Discrimination Act of 1967, as amended, prohibits age
discrimination and protects applicants aged 40-70 from discrimination
in hiring, promotion, discharge, pay, fringe benefits, and other
aspects of employment.

These laws cover most private employers, state and local government,
educational institutions, employment agencies, and labor
organizations.

The Equal Pay Act of 1963, as amended, prohibits sex discrimination in
payment of wages to women and men performing substantially equal work
in the same establishment.

Executive Order 11246, as amended, prohibits job discrimination on the
basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin by employers
holding federal contracts or subcontracts.

Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended, prohibits
job discrimination because of handicap by employers holding federal
contracts or subcontracts.

Section 402 of the Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of
1974 prohibits job discrimination against Vietnam Era veterans by
employers holding federal contracts or subcontracts.

For more information, or if you believe you have been discriminated
against, contact:

U.S. Equal Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
2401 "E" Street, NW
Washington DC 20507
Telephone toll-free 800/USA-EEOC  (TDD 202/634-7057)

Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP)
ESA/Dept. of Labor
200 Constitution Ave. NW
Washington DC 20210
(or a regional OFCCP office listed under "US Government" in the
telehone book.)

--------------------------- cut here --------------------------------------

From [e-mail]  Sat Oct 31 04:06:28 1992
Received: from btr.com by amelia.nas.nasa.gov (5.61/1.34)
    id AA06218; Sat, 31 Oct 92 04:06:28 -0800
Received: from public.btr.com by btr.com (4.0/SMI-4.0-btr.1)
    id AA08931; Sat, 31 Oct 92 04:07:09 PST
Received: by public.btr.com (4.0/SMI-4.0.btr.1)
    id AA17142; Sat, 31 Oct 92 04:07:07 PST
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 92 04:07:07 PST
From: [e-mail] (Robert E. Maas  [e-mail])
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ***REMINDER:put LOCATION JOB-TITLE COMPANY in subject***
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.offered
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: [e-mail]
Cc:
Status: RO

One thing to add perhaps: Here's the standard blurb I e-mail to people
who post job ads with just "Software Engineer" as the Subject:

A lot of job offers on Usenet (here on misc.jobs.offered, also on
su.jobs and ba.jobs.offered) are for programming (many using the new
catchy title "software engineer" that usually means about the same
thing as "programmer/analyst"). Accordingly it might be good to include
some specifics of the job in the subject field to allow searching by
subject.

Anyway, you might want to mention in your (actually the other author's)
recurring message that if you are advertising for a programmer or
software engineer position that additional specifics are desired such as
names of languages or systems needed or application area etc.
I'll leave it to you-two to work out something suitable, if you choose
to add this. On the other hand, if you believe I'm out of line, and
just "Software Engineer, San Jose, CA" is a perfectly acceptable Subject
field (omitting the company name is common practice, and not serious
in my opinion, but job title and geographic location are crucial),
then feel free to reject my suggestion.

For nearly any other job opening (ASIC design, biological engineer,
bass player, truck driver, babysitter, etc.) there aren't enough job ads
here to require additional breakdown by detailed skills, in my opinion
again of course.

From [e-mail]  Mon Nov  2 19:23:10 1992
Received: from data.nas.nasa.gov by wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (5.61/1.34)
    id AA26654; Mon, 2 Nov 92 19:23:10 -0800
Received: from btr.com by data.nas.nasa.gov (5.61/1.34)
    id AA02524; Mon, 2 Nov 92 19:23:03 -0800
Received: from public.btr.com by btr.com (4.0/SMI-4.0-btr.1)
    id AA03216; Mon, 2 Nov 92 19:23:47 PST
Received: by public.btr.com (4.0/SMI-4.0.btr.1)
    id AA25325; Mon, 2 Nov 92 19:23:44 PST
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 19:23:44 PST
From: [e-mail] (Robert E. Maas  [e-mail])
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ***REMINDER:put LOCATION JOB-TITLE COMPANY in subject***
Status: R

Well, *most* employers advertising on misc.jobs.offered *do* include
something more specific than just "Software Engineer", so I figure the
few who don't ought to also.
I would rather see "Software Engineer SQL & Sybase, SF Bay, CA"
than see           "Software Engineer, SF Bay, CA, Sequent, Inc."
About the same number of characters, but the name of the company is
less important in deciding whether I might be qualified for the job
than the language or whatever.