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- Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun.tamu.edu!bdubbs
- From: bdubbs@cs.tamu.edu (Bruce Dubbs)
- Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
- Subject: Re: Is Microsoft the next Standard Oil?
- Date: 31 Dec 1992 22:42:47 GMT
- Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
- Lines: 95
- Message-ID: <1hvt17INNnti@tamsun.tamu.edu>
- References: <1992Dec31.034930.3422@microsoft.com> <1hu4dhINN272@tamsun.tamu.edu> <1hvh9oINNapm@spim.mti.sgi.com>
- NNTP-Posting-Host: solar.tamu.edu
-
- In article <1hvh9oINNapm@spim.mti.sgi.com> jackc@vermont.mti.sgi.com (Jack Choquette) writes:
- |In article <1hu4dhINN272@tamsun.tamu.edu>, bdubbs@cs.tamu.edu (Bruce Dubbs) writes:
- ||> In article <1992Dec31.034930.3422@microsoft.com> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
- ||> |In article <1hqe98INNsef@tamsun.tamu.edu> bdubbs@cs.tamu.edu (Bruce Dubbs) writes:
- ||> |>
- ||> |>Actually, I wasn't talking about Standard Oil, I was talking about MS.
- ||> |>The cost of duplicating software is negligible. The cost of
- ||> |>developing is high. If one company has deep pockets and no controls,
- ||> |>the potential exists for that company to dump the product (software) for a
- ||> |>period of time until the competitor goes out of business and then
- ||> |>raise the prices again.
- ||> |>
- ||> |>Has MS done this? You bet. How much was OS/2 1.0? Answer: $325.
- ||> |>Why so much? No competition. How much was the original OS/2 PDK?
- ||> |>Answer: $2600. Same reason. Did IBM go along? Yup. They were
- ||> |>partners, not competitors then.
- ||> |
- ||> | OK, I give up. Which of the examples above is an example
- ||> |of the underpricing you describe in your first paragraph?
- ||> |
- ||>
- ||> Come on Phil. You know better than that. Are you saying that if
- ||> OS/2, NextStep, etc goes away through superior marketing (or other
- ||> tactics) that MS will not raise the prices?
- ||>
- ||> I was describing what DID happen without effective competition. And
- ||> what I feel will happen again without ongoing competition.
-
- |I have to point something out here. Twice someone has asked how the OS/2
- |example is an example of underpricing. Both times you answered that they
- |did not understand what you said and attacted them for being so blind to
- |obvious validity of your viewpoints.
- |
- |I don't think you understand what you've written. In the first paragraph
- |you describe how business undercuts a compeditor and then raises prices.
- |You then go on to say that the high price for OS/2 is an example of MS
- |doing it (underpricing and then raising prices).
-
- I suppose I did not write clearly. Sorry.
- In the first paragraph I point out that MS has the *potential* to gain
- a monopoly position through dumping. Once in a monopoly position the
- prices are high.
-
- In the second paragraph, I point out that when in an effective
- monopoly situation, MS has charged high (some would say very high)
- prices.
-
- I did not mean to imply that MS has previously obtained a monopoly
- position via dumping. I believe their prior dominant position was not
- obtained through unethical of illegal means. I do believe they are
- trying to re-establish their overwhelming position by all means,
- including marketing, low pricing, etc. Is everying they are doing now
- legal? I can't say for sure. Its OK for MS to push the limits, but
- they shouldn't be suprised if the referee (the FTC) says "OK, you've
- gone to far, time to pull back a little."
-
- |OS/2 may be an example of overpricing, I am not questioning that. But it
- |is NOT an example of underpricing to eliminate competitors and then raising
- |prices.
- |
- |I must also point out that I'm not attacking (or supporting) your viewpoints.
- |I'm just pointing out that this one point appears to be incorrect or unclear
- |and maybe you should clarify it. Phil did this, in a tongue and cheek sort
- |of way, and you attacted him. Please don't attact me, just clarify your
- |point or admit what you said is incorrect or stated incorrectly.
-
- Did I really attack Phil? I didn't mean to. I didn't use any
- adjectives implying lack of social graces, etc.
-
- |Also, please don't say this is a minor point. Overpricing a new product
- |is much different then underpricing and then raising prices. Overpricing
- |a NEW product (and an example of it) does not support your position, at
- |least in the way you've explained your position. Overpricing a NEW product is
- |the fastest way to kill the product and is not a very good business practice.
- |
- |I may be wrong about overpricing a NEW product being bad for the company doing
- |the overpricing. If I am, please explain how. Otherwise please use another
- |example. Maybe you can use the example of companies in Japan dumping
- |memory chips.
-
- Hmmm. I agree that overpricing a new product will kill it (as it
- essentially did to OS/2 in the late 80's), but I also feel that MS's
- prior behavior in a controlling position is indicatative of what they
- would do (or any company would do) if the present competition was
- rendered ineffective.
- -- Bruce
-
-
-
-
-
- --
- Bruce Dubbs | Oxymorons of note:
- bdubbs@neuron.tamu.edu | Honest Politician, Political Science,
- | Scrupulous Lawyer
-