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- Path: sparky!uunet!paladin.american.edu!auvm!UTMBEACH.BITNET!TBOURBON
- Original_To: BITNET%"csg-l@uiucvmd.bitnet"
- Original_cc: TBOURBON
- Message-ID: <CSG-L%92121700274375@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
- Newsgroups: bit.listserv.csg-l
- Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:25:00 CDT
- Sender: "Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)" <CSG-L@UIUCVMD.BITNET>
- From: Tom Bourbon <TBOURBON@UTMBEACH.BITNET>
- Subject: Re: citations;social;Gabriel
- Lines: 97
-
- From: Tom Bourbon (921217 00:16 CST)
-
- Ask a simple question ... !
-
- John Gabriel made a simple declaration:
-
- >[gabriel to powers 921214 11:35 CST]
- >Subject: PCT and war
-
- >"... those who have been applying PCT in advertising agencies have
- >a substantial hand in deciding who gets to be president and C in
- >C."
-
- I made a simple request:
-
- >Tom Bourbon (921215 00:48)
-
- >I collect citations of PCT and I am always looking for new areas
- >in which PCT is applied. I have not seen, perhaps because I
- >never looked for them, applications of PCT in advertising. I
- >would like to add that specimen to my collection. Can you
- >provide a few specific citations and examples?
-
- When John did not reply, I repeated my request with a simple
- additional remark:
-
- >Tom Bourbon (921216 09:18 CST)
-
- >I am serious. I will appreciate any citations you can provide on
- >people in advertising agencies who use PCT to sell products and to
- >influence presidential elections in the United States. My
- >collection of applications will be incomplete without citations
- >for applications as important as those. Don't keep them for
- >yourself!
-
- I am not certain what happened next.
-
- >[John Gabriel to Tom Bourbon 921216 11:54 CST]
-
- >There's a difference between doing PCT in detail, with all the
- >hierarchy, about which I have some fairly serious doubts because
- >there's so much ECSs seem to me unable to accomplish without
- >interactions so extensive that the interactions become more
- >important than the ECS's, and Bill's wonderful insight with which
- >I completely agree, that people or any other organism, or even
- >state machine, do things because of their perceptions, (for state
- >machines, read inputs) or sometimes to change their perceptions.
- >Carelessly put - In order to change some of their perceptions is
- >the way the previous thought should have been stated.
-
- Say what? I asked for a few citations.
-
- >If you want a PCT based statement of policy for an advertisng
- >agency, I don't have it, and don't plan to waste time looking for
- >it.
-
- Excuse me. My mistake. This is a network of people interested in
- PCT. When you posted a direct statement implying that at least
- some people in some advertising agencies have been applying PCT and
- that they "... have a substantial hand in deciding who gets to be
- president" and Commander in Chief in the United States, I was
- interested and I thought your remark was offered in the spirit that
- most of us make our posts on CSG-L. I asked for more information.
- Sorry to have wasted your time.
-
- >If you deny that one of the purposes of advertising is to change
- >perceptions of products, political candidates, or other things, so
- >that the behaviour of those viewing the advertising is changed, I
- >think you are very likely wrong, and I believe others will agree
- >with me.
-
- Wait a minute! Where did that come from? I made one simple
- request for information. Why are you so eager to fabricate motives
- for me and then assert that they are wrong? I have re-read my
- posts at least a dozen times and they contain nothing even slightly
- related to your suggestion that I deny the purposes of advertising.
- Why would you think I said that? Now that you bring it up, I agree
- that advertising people try to affect the actions of others, but if
- you assert on this network that they are applying PCT, I wish you
- could find the time to tell us more about it. Were I a betting
- man, I would wager heavily that there is not one advertising person
- in the world who applies PCT, but I am willing to change that
- opinion in the face of strong evidence. Why are you so eager to
- tell me that I am wrong (about something I never said) and then
- tell me that others will agree with you?
-
- Later on, you express a, "... mild irritation with total missionary
- zeal for PCT." I am not at all sure where *your* missionary zeal
- is directed, but in the future I will try to stay out of your way.
-
-
- Tom Bourbon e-mail:
- Magnetoencephalography Laboratory TBOURBON@UTMBEACH.BITNET
- Division of Neurosurgery, E-17 TBOURBON@BEACH.UTMB.EDU
- University of Texas Medical Branch PHONE (409) 763-6325
- Galveston, TX 77550 FAX (409) 762-9961
- USA
-