NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #27/NN_1992_27.iso/spool/rec/org/sca/15907

Internet Message Format | 1992-11-18 | 3.9 KB

Path: sparky!uunet!pipex!warwick!uknet!edcastle!albion
From: [e-mail] (D J B Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Asst'd Dance Topics
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:06:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Edinburgh University
Lines: 63

Following up Justin du Couer's discussion of lines of couples...
In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks) writes:
>Del quotes a message from Richard that I haven't seen yet:
>>> On the question for dances "longwayes for as many as will",
>>> However, it is important to note that in none of our period sources from
>>> the 16th century, including Caroso, Negri and Arbeau.  Arbeau, in fact,
>>> never explicitly mentions that a basse dance or pavan should be danced by
>>> a long line of couples.  I might be more willing to accept such a longways
>>> dance if there were any precedents at all in the period repertoire.
>
>Now *that* is the most interesting observation I've seen in a dog's age.
>I have *always* heard the received wisdom that basse dances and pavans
>are processional dances, and have never seen them danced in any other
>way. But doing a quick dig through the two sources that I have on
>hand that pertain to it (Arbeau and the Brussels MS, one of the main
>basse dance sources), Richard's right -- it doesn't ever really say that
>these dances are processional.

[Excellent discussion of the information in these sources deleted]

>Okay, here's a possibly-hard question for the dance mavens out there:
>what evidence, if any, *is* there for the pavan and basse dance as
>a *social* line-of-couples dance? Is there art that indicates it?

In my far-from-exhaustive attempt to collect period pictures of dance,
the earliest illustration of couple (as opposed to a line or circle)
dancing that I found was from about 1390. The picture shows four couples
in a fairly small squarish room, and they are spaced evenly in a circle
(i.e. each couple processing around the room at an equal distance from
the couple in front and behind).

In the fifteenth century there are several illustrations that look like
a line of couples. There's a manuscript from about 1410-20 that has a
large outdoor scene of nobles wearing white clothing, and one group of
3 or 4 couples doing what looks very much like a dance, following one
another around a curve. From 1450 or so there are several French
illustrations of processions of couples (usually following a bride and
groom) some of which appear to form a circle round the room. There's
also at least one Italian painting from the same time that shows 4 or
more couples dancing under a canopy and similarly forming a circle (this
could be the salterello section of a ballo with a fixed number of
couples though, rather than a procession of as many as will).

These are all being described from memory - I can double check and give
references if anyone wants. By the way, in all these pictures (I'm
fairly sure) the ladies are on the outside of the circle. I've heard
this explained as a development from the conversion (in which the
lady turns forward and the man backwards so that the lady won't step on
her train): if several couples are dancing up and down the hall and
making conversions at each end then they will quite naturally fall into a
long oval pattern as they pass each other and turn at the ends, with the
men turning more or less on the spot and the ladies going around the outside.
This is in contrast to the way I originally learned to do pavanes, with
the ladies on the inside, with the explanation that this meant the
ladies were taking smaller steps.

If anyone has seen an earlier than 1390 illustration of a couple dance I
would be interested to know about it, especially if it is early enough
to be contemporary with the estampie (i.e. 12th-13th century).

An interesting discussion!

Caitlin de Courcy.