NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #27/NN_1992_27.iso/spool/alt/sys/sun/3417

Text File | 1992-11-23 | 21.0 KB | 519 lines

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Path: sparky!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!torn!nott!dgbt!clark.dgim.doc.ca!news
From: [e-mail] (Donald McLachlan)
Subject: Re: Sun Clones info needed
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
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Organization: Communication Research Centre
References: <CcH=[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 14:09:36 GMT
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This is quite old, but here is a summary to this question that I posted a long time
back.


---
Donald McLachlan            e-mail    [e-mail]
Communications Research Centre / DRL    office    613-998-2845
3701 Carling Ave.,            lab    613-998-2423
Ottawa, Ontario                fax    [phone]
K2H 8S2


Article 283 of comp.sys.sun.hardware:
Xref: dgbt comp.sys.sun.hardware:283 comp.sys.sun.misc:426 comp.sys.sun.wanted:100
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted
Path: dgbt!don
From: [e-mail] (Donald McLachlan)
Subject: SUMMARY: Sun clones
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: LONG
Sender: [e-mail] (Donald McLachlan)
Organization: The Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 22:40:51 GMT


Thanks to the many people who responded. Unfortunatly I didn't save all the mail
as much of the info was repeated.


Well I started off with good intentions and seem to have fallen short.
There are simply too many vars.

For instance ...

I found a Canadian clone "manufacturer" (Sidus) who claim they manufacture
the processor board in Edmonton. Mobius Computer Corporation in California
openly claimed they use systems made by OPUS Systems (California). So I called
OPUS, and they calim to sell boards and systems to Sidus.

With rats nests like this I give up.

There I give you the following
    - A list of Vendors at Comdex as Published in Sun World (December 91)
    - A list of Companies offering Sun clones as per Sun World (Jan 92)
    - some responses I received,
    - and a sunflash announcement posted to the sun-managers mailing list.

PS: The second list is Part one of two parts. The second will be published
    in Sun World in February.



Sun World, December 1991

DTK            40MHz     Tera or LSI    desktop        818-810-8880
Goldstar        40MHz    LSI        desktop        408-954-8881
Hyundai            40MHz    Tera or LSI    desktop        408-473-9200
RDI Computer Corp    25MHz    LSI        laptop        619-558-6985
Sampo Technology Corp    40MHz    LSI        desktop        404-449-6220
Stone            40MHz    LSI        desktop        415-961-7607
Tadpole            25MHz    Cypress        laptop        512-338-4221
Tatung            40MHz    Tera or LSI    desktop        408-435-0140
TriGem            40MHz    LSI        desktop        408-970-0844
Twinhead        40MHz    Ross/Cypress    desktop        408-945-0808
Vertos            40MHz    Cypress        desktop        510-226-7299



Sun World, January 1992        (D=Desktop, L=Laptop, S=Server)

AFE Computers Ltd            804-974-7801        D
Auspex Systems                408-492-0900        ?
    >From [e-mail] Tue Jan 21 18:42:34 1992
    >
    >"S".  We don't make workstations, and at least if I have anything to
    >say about it, we aren't ever *going* to make workstations....
Aztek Systems Technologies        415-528-6633        L
Chicony                    408-336-2400        D
CCL/ITRI                011-886-35-953587    S(VME)
Compuadd Corp                800-688-6380        D
DCM                    408-582-1661        D
Datatech Enterprises Co. Ltd (DTK)    818-810-8880        DS(VME)
FPS computing                503-641-3151        S
Fujitsu Ltd                408-922-9000        S?
Goldstar                408-954-8881        D
Hamilton Computervertribs        011-49-7071-7002-40    SD?
Hyundai                    408-473-9200         D
ICL                    714-458-7282        S
Intellicsis                415-965-5500        D
Mars Microsystems Inc            412-934-1040        D
Meiko Ltd                415-952-9900        S
Opus systems                415-960-4040        D
Orange systems                404-632-2200        ?
RDI Computer Corp            619-558-6985        L
Sidus Systems Inc            416-882-1600        D
Solarix                    415-659-1544        D
Solbourne Computer Corp            303-722-3400        DS
Solflower Computer Inc            408-456-5055        D(VME)
Sparktrum Microsystems            408-428-9204
Star Technologies Inc            703-689-4400




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Tue Jan 14 16:17:53 1992

    We're fairly happy with our Opus 25mhz machines -- they'll even run
    Sun kernels, although a Sun kernel won't return the right hostid.
 ...
    You'll save money and/or get more if you get the machine diskless and
    with minimal memory, and buy disks and memory from third parties.
    You'll also get far, far better warrantees.  Sun will only do 30 or 90
    days (I forget which).  Some disk manufacturers give five years, and a
    good memory vendor (like Helios) will give a *lifetime* warrantee.

 NOTE: apparently the 40MHz opus runs SunOS4.1.2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Wed Jan 15 09:25:54 1992

    I tested Tatung's CompStations. These are basically identical to
    SparcStations, both h/w, s/w and look wise. I found absolutely
    no diff. in performance. But they have the low-end ones which
    are equivalent to SparcStation 1+ and the high end ones which
    are equivalent to the SparcStation 2 at 40Mhz. There prices
    are cheaper. I was able to negotiate a real low price as they
    are looking for a major market break thru. They come with
    Solaris 1.0 which is SunOS 4.1.2 w Open Windows.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Fri Jan 17 14:33:17 1992

    We demoed a Tatung SS1+ clone for about 60 days.  It worked flawlessly
    and seemed to be identical to a SS1+ to the extent that we did a
    dump of the SparcOS that came with it and loaded SunOS 4.1.1 with
    DBE 1.1 and a patched kernel built on a SS2.  Everything ran like
    a champ.  Even reproduced the same bugs we found on the SS2 (:-^).
    We did heavy duty pounding (we develop software) using shell
    scripts, C, Prolog, Sybase, Unify, and Openwindows.  Netted
    the Tatung to our regular net of Sun 3's, 4's, and Sparcs.
    If there's any incompatibilities we didn't find them.  Tatung
    has since come out with a SS2 clone.  Prices are quite reasonable.
    I think the SS2 clone is about $10k list with 16 Meg of RAM,
    monitor, and ~ 200 Meg of disk.  Check with the sales for exact
    figures.  Our POC is [phone], Jim Connett.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Tue Jan 14 22:31:27 1992

    Solbourne Computer is the one I know of.  They've been best known for
    high end multiprocessor systems but they've moved down of late.
    I don't have one (yet) at work but the systems people at Univ N Texas
    say they make the Sun people look like lazy wetbacks!
    (no racial slander intended).

    I've got a Dataquest (Dun and Bradstreet) review of Solbourne which
    was extremely positive, commenting on how Solbourne considers after
    sales support a major portion of their marketing advantage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Fri Jan 17 08:20:25 1992

    Clones are based on the SPARC Compatibility Definition (SCD)
    administered by SPARC International.  This means they should all
    be able to run applications compiled on any SPARC machine.

    These boxes do not have to use the same internal architecture as
    Sun.  This means the architecture can be optimised for different
    purposes.  Our boxes are optimised for throughput and not MIPS.
    This is due to our years of experience in servers and major
    applications (you will find our audited database performance
    extremely good).  You will notice our desktop machines use a 64bit
    CPU to give a throughput edge.

    If you want more details please email ruth at this email address
    or as below.

    Ruth Glasby
    Workstations Business Manager
    Solbourne Computer (UK) Ltd
    4 Apple Walk
    Kembrey Park
    Swindon
    Wiltshire SN2 6BL

    Tel [phone]
    Fax [phone]

NOTE: I was curious about this and posted to the net it turns out that they
      have a 64 bit memory bus, so double loads/stores are improved.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Fri Jan 17 20:27:38 1992

    We are currently investing lots of money into Solbourne.  We are mainly
    interested in their Series 5 multiprocessor machines but we do have
    several of their S4000 series which are equivalent to the SS2 from Sun.

    You can get the configuration that you specified with the exceptions
    that the current OS release is Solbourne OS/ 4.1A.1 and Open Windows
    is an additional product (available but not bundled with the OS).  We
    have found the S4000's to be a very stable product and the customer
    server to be exceptional.  I cannot comment on the price.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Scott)

    My CompuAdd rep tells me their SS2 clone will be out any minute :-)

    >From experience, I can say that their SS1+ is an EXCELLENT clone.
    It runs SunOS 4.1.1b right out of the box...no modifications, like
    almost all the others.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Tue Jan 21 17:01:30 1992

    There was a Byte magazine within the past year that had
    a prominent story about Sparc clones.  I don't have any
    more info on this handy, though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sender: [e-mail]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                        The Florida SunFlash

     Independent Vendors and Sun Expand Base of New SPARC Technologies

SunFLASH Vol 35 #30                           November 1991
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a press announcement from SPARC International. -johnj
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        SPARC International
                        Adrienne Bachleda
                        (415) 321- 8699 x238

                  tm
    Over a Dozen New SPARC   Systems Coming to Market

MENLO PARK, Calif. -- October 15, 1991 -- SPARC International reported
today that the SPARC-Compatible systems market is experiencing an
explosion of new hardware technology that will be used in more than a
dozen SPARC systems products to be announced by the end of October.
Many of these new systems will be demonstrated at the COMDEX and UNIX
Expo trade shows later this month.

Vendors supplying new independently developed technologies include
Fujitsu Microelectronics, Tera Microsystems and Weitek Corporation.
Fujitsu announced its 33-MHz and 40-MHz SPARC microprocessors and
completion chip sets in May, 1991 and expects six to ten of its
customers to bring products to market by year-end. Weitek and Tera
Microsystems announced September 24 that they have combined efforts to
provide a complete SPARCstation 2-class chip set, and expect a
comparable number of customers to announce product in the same time
frame.

Sun Announces Licensing of Competitive Hardware Technology

As part of this SPARC International press release, Sun Microsystems,
originator of the SPARC Architecture, is announcing today special
licensing relationships with three SPARC chip vendors, Fujitsu
Microelectronics, LSI Logic and Tera Microsystems. Under the
agreements, Sun Microsystems Computer Corporation (SMCC) will authorize
the three companies to resell its 40-MHz SPARC logic chip set and
SPARCstation 2 board design. Sun will also license its GX graphics
accelerator chip and board design to these same vendors. This
arrangement will allow the licensees, Fujitsu Microelectronics, LSI
Logic and Tera Microsystems to market and sell kits including these
chips and board designs to SPARC-Compa- tible system vendors. The
system vendors, in turn, will use these kits to develop and deliver
systems compatible with the 40-MHz SPARCstation 2.  Separately, SMCC
will make the GX board available for purchase by SPARC system vendors.

According to Charlie Simmons, director of strategy and business develop
ment for SMCC, "We are making these technologies available to enrich
the base of competitive hardware technologies available to SPARC system
suppliers. Our goal is to support the development of the SPARC
Compatible systems market."

As a further step to enable the SPARC Compatible systems market, SMCC,
in cooperation with Sun's operating system subsidiary SunSoft, has
authorized Sony Corporation, its supplier of CD-ROM drives, to openly
sell the drives to all SPARC-Compatible systems vendors. SPARC systems
using both the Solaris operating system and Sony's CD-ROM drives now
have the capability of using software distributed on CD-ROM. This new
technology is SunSoft's preferred distribution media, and represents
the most powerful method available for achieving software distribution
efficiencies, reducing overall computing costs and improving media
capacity, reliability and durability.

Robert W. Duncan, chairman and CEO of SPARC International, added,
"Sun's continued licensing of core SPARC technologies, and the
substantial in- vestment in SPARC technology by chip vendors, allows
systems manufacturers to concentrate resources on developing and
supporting independent distribution channels. This is clearly the most
important next step in the development of the SPARC-Compatible systems
market."

Additional SPARC Hardware Technologies Coming On Line

Beyond the products mentioned so far, several other SPARC hardware
technologies have recently been announced or are being previewed.
Cypress Semiconductor announced on September 30 its single and
multiprocessing SPARCore modules, used first in SMCC's new line of
multiprocessing servers announced on the same day.

Texas Instruments released details of its SuperSPARC superscalar micro
processor at the Hot Chips Conference in Palo Alto, California August
26th. Texas Instruments intends to provide further details in a second
SuperSPARC technology disclosure at the Microprocessor Forum, November
6-7, in Burlingame, California.

Further Information

SPARC Architecture Manual, Version 8 is available through SPARC
International aswell as through Prentice Hall and its authorized book
stores. Contact SPARC International at [phone] for order and
delivery details, or Prentice Hall at [phone]. Government
customers can call [phone]; corporate customers (bulk orders)
should write to Special Sales at Prentice Hall, 113 Sylvan Avenue,
Englewood Cliffs, NJ 07632. The SPARC International member price for
the manual is $22.00 (U.S.); the non-member price and Pren tice Hall
price is $37.00 (U.S.)

Complete information on all the products and technologies described in
this release is available from SPARC International or other mentioned
suppliers. See attached Contact Sheet.

About SPARC International

SPARC International, located in Menlo Park, California, was founded in
February 1989 as an independent, not-for-profit corporation chartered
with directing the evolution of the SPARC microprocessor architecture
(developed by Sun Microsystems), developing the market for SPARC
Compliant products, establishing and evolving SPARC Compliance
Definitions (SCDs), and providing compliance and migration tools and
testing services to software developers, chipmanufacturers,
add-in/add-on hardware suppliers, and systems suppliers.  SPARC
International is located at 535 Middlefield Road, Menlo Park,
California, 94025. Phone: [phone]; FAX: [phone]; E-mail:
[e-mail].

                ###

SPARC is a registered trademark of SPARC International. Products
bearing SPARC trademarks are based on an architecture developed by Sun
Microsystems, Inc.  SPARC Compatible is a trademark of SPARC
International. SPARCstation is a trademark of SPARC International,
licensed exclusively to Sun Microsystems.  SPARCore is a trademark of
SPARC International, licensed exclusively to Cypress Semiconductor.
SuperSPARC is a trademark of SPARC International, licensed exclusively
to Texas Instruments. Solaris is a trademark of Sun Microsystems, Inc.,
licensed to SunSoft, Inc.


--
Donald McLachlan            e-mail    [e-mail]
Communications Research Centre / DRL    office    613-998-2845
3701 Carling Ave.,            lab    613-998-2423
Ottawa, Ontario                fax    [phone]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Steven Roth)

Important note of caution re SPARC clones:

Check to see which monitor you'd be getting with the system.  Some
units are also supposed to have accelerated (GX-like) frame buffers,
although you should verify GX-compatibility, if it is indeed claimed.

For example, at UNIX Expo in NYC, I saw a number of clones.  The
laptops/ luggables usually had only 640x480 monochrome monitors.  I'm
told there is at least one unit with decent resolution, however.

The color desktop units had various monitors.  A unit by DTK, which
looked good in many ways, had a Philips color monitor which was quite
fuzzy.  I've been told that this is a characteristic of the Philips
monitors.  The Tatung SPARC clone had (of course) a Tatung monitor,
which was better than the Philips, but not as sharp as a Sony.

I'd advise taking a good, hard look at the screen before buying the
unit.  You may be able to opt for a more reliable monitor (e.g., Sony
Trinitron) at a slightly higher price.  And it probably would be worth
it.

Another clone worth considering is the CompuAdd entry.  I believe it
includes a Trinitron monitor, but you should always ask to be sure.

Various of these manufacturers will have 40MHz entries soon if they don't
already.

 --

Another note:  Some of the vendors offer a long ( >= 1 year ) warranty,
possibly with free onsite maintenance.  This is an important extra, if
you can get it.

 --

Good luck in your clone hunting!

Steve Roth
[e-mail]

--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Steven Roth           New York, New York, U.S.A.          Email:  [e-mail]
                      "Make it so." - JLP                         eastend!steve
_______________________________________________________________________________

From: Yuan M Jiang <[e-mail]>

Saturn Technology in New York sells TATUNG SPARC 2 compatible and
will sell Vertos SPARC 2 as well (sells SPARC 1+) now.  There
address is
Saturn Tech.
414 West 120 St, Suite 600
New York, NY  10027
[phone]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[e-mail]        (t) 613-749-1777  (f) 613-749-3850

> I found a Canadian clone "manufacturer" (Sidus) who claim they manufacture
> the processor board in Edmonton. Mobius Computer Corporation in California
> openly claimed they use systems made by OPUS Systems (California). So I called> OPUS, and they calim to sell boards and systems to Sidus.
>
> With rats nests like this I give up.

<Sigh.>  I wish you'd checked with me prior to posting this.
- The motherboards are manufactured by LSI in Edmonton.
- We do buy SPARC PC add-in cards from Opus (500 personal mainframe), and
  we still have stock on some LSI motherboards which were purchased from Opus.
- We have been in negotiation with LSI of late, to arrange direct purchasing.

FYI, we are a Sony OEM and would usually quote Sony monitors with our systems.


Take Care, Phil
--
Phil Linttell,                  Sidus Systems, Inc.
SCO Product Manager             5310 Canotek Road, Unit 16
                                Ottawa, ON. (Canada)  K1J 9N5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Spencer Greene)


    SR> Important note of caution re SPARC clones:

    SR> Check to see which monitor you'd be getting with the system.  Some
    SR> units are also supposed to have accelerated (GX-like) frame buffers,
    SR> although you should verify GX-compatibility, if it is indeed claimed.

Actually, Sun has licensed their cg6 (aka GX) graphics card to many clonemakers,
so anyone producing this card is probably 100% compatible.  I haven't heard of
anyone yet with a "GX-like" frame buffer, but there are several accelerators
(Megatek, etc.) which are not at all GX compatible -- though if they work with
your particular software, that shouldn't matter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Yuan M Jiang)

Someone has asked about the price for SPARC compatibles from
SATURN TECH 212-662-1277

TATUNG COMPstation

20 MHz
                            Diskless*         207 MHz HDD          340 MB HDD
15" color                      $3,790              $4,450              $5,150
19" color                      $4,690              $5,350              $6,050
25 MHz
                             Diskless         207 MHz HDD          340 MB HDD
15" color                      $4,690              $5,350              $6,050
19" color                      $5,590              $6,250              $6,950
19" color and Single                               $7,250              $7,950
slot graphic
accellerator (WX)

40 MHz
                             Diskless         207 MHz HDD          340 MB HDD
15" color and Single                               $7,850              $8,550
slot graphic
accellerator (WX)
19" color and Single                               $8,750              $9,450
slot graphic
accellerator (WX)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------